Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet Your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: this week, I am having several conversations with folks who
Speaker 1: are trying to help us understand a few things, which
Speaker 1: is this, how do we fight against a political party
Speaker 1: that has decided that the rules no longer apply, that
Speaker 1: the norms that we have all agreed upon for centuries
Speaker 1: no longer have the foundation and consent of every citizen
Speaker 1: of this country. How do you fight back against people
Speaker 1: who are becoming increasingly extreme using every disgusting word, playbook
Speaker 1: strategy that they can get their hands on. I listened
Speaker 1: this week to a clip of Perdue in Georgia, who
Speaker 1: is going to most likely be facing off against Stacy
Speaker 1: Abrams for the governorship along with Brian Kemp, but we're
Speaker 1: not being troubled with him at the moment. Purdue, in
Speaker 1: an interview said about Stacy Abrams that if she doesn't
Speaker 1: like the way that things are, she should quote go
Speaker 1: back to where she came from. Where would that be
Speaker 1: exactly Wisconsin where she was born. Because when you say
Speaker 1: things like go back to your country, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: soft plug for my co host of Democracy Ish. That
Speaker 1: is the title of his book, go Back to Where
Speaker 1: You came From. When you say things like that, what
Speaker 1: exactly are you saying? You are saying, in fact, that
Speaker 1: black and brown people are not from here, right, that
Speaker 1: we do not belong and so they are before we
Speaker 1: should go back to where we came from. Funny enough, though,
Speaker 1: white people were not fucking born here. And that's the
Speaker 1: thing that I get so frustrated about when we talk
Speaker 1: about curriculum and education and they're pushback against critical race theory,
Speaker 1: which by the way, is not taught in K through
Speaker 1: twelve schooling, but the very idea and concept that they
Speaker 1: don't even know their own fucking history right, which is
Speaker 1: built on lies, the gas lighting of their exceptionalism and
Speaker 1: them alone and the degradation of everyone else. So when
Speaker 1: you have built up an entire public education system that
Speaker 1: is about perpetuating those lies, you have a fucking Purdue
Speaker 1: and the Republican Party that comes out of their mouth
Speaker 1: with hot trash like go back to where you came
Speaker 1: from because they don't understand or care about the founding
Speaker 1: of this country. Then indigenous Native people, whom they nearly
Speaker 1: wiped off the map, which is exactly what they're trying
Speaker 1: to do now. I want us to piece together and
Speaker 1: begin to do what the mainstream media doesn't do, which
Speaker 1: is connect all of these dots. These are not isolated
Speaker 1: statements or isolated scenarios like the massacre that happened in Buffalo.
Speaker 1: These are not things that are happening in isolation. They
Speaker 1: are part of a coordinated plan and entity to in
Speaker 1: fact run people either out of this country or to
Speaker 1: have them live under certain threat and fear. We'll have
Speaker 1: a conversation later in the week with a doctor Brittany Cooper,
Speaker 1: which I will tell you that when I finished that interview,
Speaker 1: I felt invigorated, and I haven't felt invigorated, as I've
Speaker 1: said to all of you over the past couple of days,
Speaker 1: because I'm feeling really depressed, defeated, and like I'm a
Speaker 1: part of the losing team, and I don't like to lose.
Speaker 1: But the Democrats are showing absolutely no ability to even
Speaker 1: create a plan to see us out of the dire
Speaker 1: situation that we are in. And Britney Cooper laid out
Speaker 1: the truth as a historian. She'll tell us later in
Speaker 1: the week that look I don't see a way out
Speaker 1: of this where violence is not a part of the equation.
Speaker 1: And so if we can see things like that, right
Speaker 1: and see that these iterations of what happened in Buffalo,
Speaker 1: what happened in Kenosha, Wisconsin, what happened in Charlottesville, what
Speaker 1: happened in Charleston, when you see these things and what
Speaker 1: happened in our passo, and we can continue to list
Speaker 1: on because the amount of racially hate motivated crimes that
Speaker 1: have been happening in this country, and according to many reports,
Speaker 1: the FBI had a report twelve years ago that told
Speaker 1: us that all of this was coming. And do you
Speaker 1: know what they decided to do shelve it? And why
Speaker 1: did they decide to do that? Oh, let me tell you, well,
Speaker 1: it has everything to do with politics, because you see,
Speaker 1: Democrats continually want to operate from the place that if
Speaker 1: we are not using our power for the benefit of
Speaker 1: the people that actually put us in power, if we
Speaker 1: seem as if we're willing to come to the table
Speaker 1: and essentially negotiate on the backs of the very people
Speaker 1: who put us in office, and we don't ruffle too
Speaker 1: many feathers, then when Republicans take control they'll be nice
Speaker 1: to us. That was the thinking when the report was
Speaker 1: first surfaced, where it said, hmm, there's a rise in
Speaker 1: white extremist terrorists, violence, and groups and they are linked
Speaker 1: to the Republican Party. Well, Republicans didn't like that, and
Speaker 1: neither did the Obama administration, because the Obama administration thought
Speaker 1: that if they just ignored the threats that were on
Speaker 1: the horizon, then they could get some GOP members to
Speaker 1: vote for healthcare. Well, we all know how that turned out.
Speaker 1: And so now we're in this situation again, not just
Speaker 1: because of Republicans lies and their desire to shelf this report.
Speaker 1: That would literally have provided a pathway for us on
Speaker 1: how we I don't know, developed task force and teams
Speaker 1: or do what the Department of Justice has decided so
Speaker 1: quickly to do with regard to Russia and the oligarchs. Oh,
Speaker 1: we put together a quick task force, and we're seizing
Speaker 1: yachts and we're doing all of these things. Look at
Speaker 1: us busy and fighting for democracy. Maybe had somebody not
Speaker 1: taken the FBI's White Supremacy report and shelved it, maybe
Speaker 1: there would have been task force and teams that were
Speaker 1: put in place that had begun to infiltrate and break
Speaker 1: up these groups and begin to arrest these people instead
Speaker 1: of allowing them to grow into the fucking federal movement
Speaker 1: that they are right now. Folks, it is the place
Speaker 1: that we are in. With the more conversations that I
Speaker 1: have each and every week with some of our friends
Speaker 1: like doctor Jonathan Metzo, who has done and as he
Speaker 1: will tell us coming up next thirty seven interviews Jonathan
Speaker 1: did last week as the author of Dying of Whiteness,
Speaker 1: has been going on show after show after show because
Speaker 1: he thinks that it is his duty to explain to America,
Speaker 1: to the world the dire place that we are in,
Speaker 1: and that if Democrats don't begin to use the power
Speaker 1: that they have for the limited amount of time, because
Speaker 1: we are running out of time. We are running up
Speaker 1: against midterms in less than six months at this point,
Speaker 1: that if we do not use that power, we are done.
Speaker 1: It isn't just hyperbole. These are historians and professors and
Speaker 1: activists and leaders that are all echoing the same thing.
Speaker 1: You've listened to Glenn Kirshner every week. Tell us that
Speaker 1: you know, if the Department of Justice does not make
Speaker 1: moves in terms of indictments and accountability and responsibility for
Speaker 1: the insurrection in the next five to six months. Then
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what happens to our democracy and where
Speaker 1: we go. I have asked many of people, there is
Speaker 1: there a country that we can point to that is
Speaker 1: lost democracy and then been able to gain it back
Speaker 1: within the same generation, And the answer is no. So
Speaker 1: what does that mean then for us? What does it
Speaker 1: mean then that the mainstream media continues to talk about
Speaker 1: the Republican Party as if they are a normal political
Speaker 1: party and as if this midterm cycle that we are
Speaker 1: up against is somehow Oh DEM's lose, will get another
Speaker 1: bite at the apple in two years. These people just
Speaker 1: listen to their candidates right now. I talked yesterday, But
Speaker 1: the candidates in their guns, babies and god. These are
Speaker 1: the things that you would see in like twelfth century
Speaker 1: the religious Christian wars. This is what these people are
Speaker 1: readying themselves for. And we're all as Democrats the establishment,
Speaker 1: I should say, because not you, but the establishment is
Speaker 1: just sitting around as if oh, it's all just the
Speaker 1: people on the fringe. No. If you watched just a
Speaker 1: few minutes of the debate in Pennsylvania for the Republicans
Speaker 1: vying for the Senate seat. There, you would have heard
Speaker 1: some of the most vile things that five, six, seven
Speaker 1: years ago would have never made it to anybody's main stage,
Speaker 1: let alone on anyone's ballot. But now you have to
Speaker 1: be as vicious, as racist, as misogynistic as possible. You
Speaker 1: have to be like the governor of Oklahoma who's saying,
Speaker 1: you're having a baby, whether you watch it or not,
Speaker 1: whether or not your life is on the line, we
Speaker 1: don't give a damn. But we certainly certainly are not
Speaker 1: going to provide you with baby formula. We're certainly not
Speaker 1: going to provide you with a childcare tax credit, We're
Speaker 1: certainly not going to provide you with universal pre k
Speaker 1: any of those things whatsoever. But where are Democrats in
Speaker 1: terms of their pushback? I keep hearing folks say that, oh, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: women are really going to come out in mass for midterms.
Speaker 1: Well here's the thing, Black and brown women been coming out.
Speaker 1: They vote over ninety of the fucking time. So is
Speaker 1: your hope, then, is our hope and prayer on the
Speaker 1: Karen's of the world coming to leave their Republican husbands
Speaker 1: and then decide that the Democratic Party is the party
Speaker 1: they want to stick with, because that sounds like we're
Speaker 1: putting a lot of hopes and dreams on a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of finger waving Karen's that can't be fucking trusted.
Speaker 1: There has to be another plan. And what I'm beginning
Speaker 1: to see by virtue of all of the conversations that
Speaker 1: we've been having over the last couple of months on
Speaker 1: woke AF is that I think that we are our
Speaker 1: only plan. That it's going to be left up to
Speaker 1: the people because where the establishment is going is not
Speaker 1: the direction that the people are going. And what pisses
Speaker 1: me off is that those motherfuckers will remain safe and
Speaker 1: okay for a certain amount of time before their Republican
Speaker 1: colleagues from across the aisle decide to throw their asses
Speaker 1: in jail and they become political prisoners when Republicans take over.
Speaker 1: But they don't think that could ever possibly happen. I
Speaker 1: want us to start living in what we think could
Speaker 1: never happen, so that we're not caught off guard, because
Speaker 1: right now you have a democratic party that is just
Speaker 1: looking up in the air wondering how the fuck we
Speaker 1: got here, And I'm saying you've been institutionalized in Congress
Speaker 1: for decades. You all should have seen this coming, and
Speaker 1: you're still sitting around acting shocked. That's the fucking problem.
Speaker 1: None of this should have been a shock. Five decades.
Speaker 1: Republicans have been trying to overturn Roe v. Wade. Since
Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War. They've been trying to
Speaker 1: refight relitigate the Civil War. And so now a confluence
Speaker 1: of perfect events bring us to this moment. And we
Speaker 1: have a political party that is supposedly in charge right
Speaker 1: now but has no idea what direction to point the
Speaker 1: country in. And to me, that's terrifying. We rely on
Speaker 1: these people to be our voices and our representatives and
Speaker 1: they don't know which way is up Coming Up next,
Speaker 1: dear friends, my conversation with our friend doctor Jonathan Matzol
Speaker 1: talking all about his premonitions around dying of whiteness. It's
Speaker 1: no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator
Speaker 1: Francesca Freer and Tiny for a lighter take on the
Speaker 1: heavy stuff. Each week, the Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts,
Speaker 1: and activists to break down the issues in a way
Speaker 1: that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket.
Speaker 1: Get the Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and
Speaker 1: streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Get a behind the scenes
Speaker 1: look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes,
Speaker 1: an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
Speaker 1: Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the
Speaker 1: notable guest and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together,
Speaker 1: they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to
Speaker 1: gun laws and take a closer look at how and
Speaker 1: why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from
Speaker 1: The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes
Speaker 1: every Tuesday. Folks, you know that if it is a Wednesday,
Speaker 1: we are getting into an authentic, honest and in your
Speaker 1: face conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel,
Speaker 1: author of the book Dying of Whiteness, Who knew the
Speaker 1: man was a prophet when he wrote that, Jonathan, it's
Speaker 1: another week and another level of I don't even know
Speaker 1: what to call it anymore. We have GOP candidates running
Speaker 1: on who can be most racist. I think I heard
Speaker 1: in the Georgia race Perdue, who will most likely face
Speaker 1: off against Stacy Abrams say if she does unlike it,
Speaker 1: he or she can go back to where she came from.
Speaker 1: We have a case of a white man in I
Speaker 1: believe it was Wisconsin who was just sentenced to ten
Speaker 1: years in jail. What was his crime throwing acid on
Speaker 1: a Latin X man in his face because he said,
Speaker 1: you're coming to replace us. We have so many of
Speaker 1: these incidents, none of them are being connected in the
Speaker 1: mainstream media to say, Wow, this Republican party, this climate
Speaker 1: that we are living in is becoming increasingly violent and extreme.
Speaker 1: What do you make of this, Jonathan, particularly at a
Speaker 1: time when the FBI will see Blower who said ten
Speaker 1: twelve years ago, white extremist violence is growing in this country.
Speaker 1: We need to have a plan for it. And it
Speaker 1: was shelved, and that was shelved by the way during
Speaker 1: the Obama administration. So how do we move forward? How
Speaker 1: do we how do we how do we even we
Speaker 1: can't even move forward because I don't even think we
Speaker 1: recognize what we're sitting in. Yeah, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: I mean The thing is, like, it's not surprising if
Speaker 1: you if you think about the history of the history
Speaker 1: of America, right, I mean, it's very consistent with other
Speaker 1: times in history. It's other it's very consistent with pre
Speaker 1: Civil rights era America. And so I feel like, in
Speaker 1: one way, we're reverting back to so much of the
Speaker 1: world order that was shaped, you know, for in globally
Speaker 1: after the Second World War, in America, after the Civil
Speaker 1: Rights era and the and the women's rights movement, we're
Speaker 1: kind of reverting back to what things were like before that,
Speaker 1: and so all of this stuff. It feels just with
Speaker 1: no disrespect to the white supremacist listeners of this show,
Speaker 1: so many of them. So it just feels it feels
Speaker 1: so uncreative. If it's like that, you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: what you got. Like, it just seems like whatever. So
Speaker 1: maybe there's some genetic mutation or something just leads to
Speaker 1: expression of whiteness in this particular way or something. I
Speaker 1: don't know it's but it just feels so ah historical
Speaker 1: in a certain kind of way. And I guess part
Speaker 1: of the issue for me is, as you know, my
Speaker 1: argument always is if you don't change the structures that
Speaker 1: I mean, there's always going to be people with these
Speaker 1: kind of views. But unless you change structures in ways
Speaker 1: that reward equity and collaboration and disincentivize this kind of
Speaker 1: racial resentment austerity, you're just going you just keep replying it.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately those structures seem to be so deeply deeply
Speaker 1: I don't know, things are really structurally bad right now,
Speaker 1: and I think we're seeing a reflection of it. And
Speaker 1: so part of the issue is we have these extreme
Speaker 1: issues that are on the news, and maybe the media
Speaker 1: should do a better job of connecting them. But I've
Speaker 1: I've had a crazy week, man, I've had I did
Speaker 1: thirty seven media interviews last week after the Buffalo shooting,
Speaker 1: and I did everything from I did the crazy c
Speaker 1: Span across America for an hour last Friday morning. I've
Speaker 1: did MSNBC, I did a lot of like different kind
Speaker 1: of calling shows, and you kind of hear from people
Speaker 1: around the country, and I guess the issue is not
Speaker 1: so much. I mean, definitely these massive things that make
Speaker 1: the news, but it's also like people's everyday opinions about
Speaker 1: things are so much I mean, I just I just
Speaker 1: got like nine hundred calls about stop saying white supremacy,
Speaker 1: it makes me feel bad, and all these kind of things,
Speaker 1: and so where it's kind of like there's a kind
Speaker 1: of backlash against any kind of racial progress right now
Speaker 1: in this country that I find to be even in
Speaker 1: some ways even more frightening than these horrifying but somewhat
Speaker 1: isolated extremeist attack So let me let me ask this,
Speaker 1: because you know, you do do a ton of media,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, every time something horrible happens, whether it's a
Speaker 1: mass shooting as was the case in Buffalo, if it
Speaker 1: is a mass shooting that is directly a hate crime
Speaker 1: as was Buffalo, you're the one that people call because
Speaker 1: whenever there's a manifesto about white supremacy, it's like doo
Speaker 1: doo, doo doo doo doo, dying of whiteness. What are the questions, however,
Speaker 1: that the media is asking. Is it about unpacking where
Speaker 1: we are or is it the continuation to sensationalize it?
Speaker 1: Because what I feel, Jonathan, is that at this stage
Speaker 1: of the game where we are, the media is absolutely
Speaker 1: complicit in the violence that I see happening. And so
Speaker 1: I want to know from you, as going on all
Speaker 1: of these shows, what is the thread that you would
Speaker 1: say is part of the questioning towards you. It's important
Speaker 1: to be having these conversations, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: discount the importance of kind of public recognition and awareness.
Speaker 1: But I also sometimes push back even on myself, even
Speaker 1: on my own participation in this, because what more do
Speaker 1: you need than a guy who wrote a one hundred
Speaker 1: eighty page manifesto and posted it online. It's not like
Speaker 1: there aren't connections that aren't made. It's more like, what
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about it? In a way,
Speaker 1: And so I just don't want to overstate the power
Speaker 1: of the media, Like the media can expose and they
Speaker 1: can make connections, and they can do all these things,
Speaker 1: but if it's not tied to like a viable um,
Speaker 1: don't I don't. I don't blame the media as much
Speaker 1: as I do like the Democratic Party, for example. So
Speaker 1: tell it, but tell me why, because I blame the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party as well, But I have equal blame that
Speaker 1: is associated with the two of them. What is the
Speaker 1: differentiation that you see. We're not living in an era
Speaker 1: where like shame motivates people like we can call that,
Speaker 1: we can call things out, expose it, throw shade on
Speaker 1: it do whatever we want all day, but that just
Speaker 1: makes people more um embedded in their positions sometimes. But
Speaker 1: I do think, like, for example, there's a massively important
Speaker 1: election in Georgia today, for example, we're getting We're getting
Speaker 1: massively outvoted, and I realize we don't have a there's
Speaker 1: no conflict on the on the Democratic side, but who's
Speaker 1: the Democratic candidate in Georgia for the secretary of State
Speaker 1: or the election officials or things like that, Like the
Speaker 1: Republicans are swarming toward these election officials, and I feel
Speaker 1: like it's got to lead to like massive mobilization of
Speaker 1: whatever political apparatus we have. And I realized we have
Speaker 1: the best person in front, Stacey Abrahams to do that,
Speaker 1: and maybe November will be the two testing ground. But
Speaker 1: I feel like we can yell and scream and expose
Speaker 1: as much as we can, but it's got to be
Speaker 1: tied to like some bigger strategy toward something right. And
Speaker 1: I just don't I don't know what our strategy is.
Speaker 1: I see the other side getting really worked up, and
Speaker 1: of course there's this extremist violence at the at the
Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg, but beneath it is like a
Speaker 1: massive effort to mobilize in all these top to bottom
Speaker 1: elections and take over the apparatus of democracy. And I
Speaker 1: don't see a counter strategy really that's going to get
Speaker 1: people out to recognize like what's the role of the
Speaker 1: Secretary of State in Georgia for example, or something like that.
Speaker 1: And so I've been I've been reading a lot of
Speaker 1: these focus groups recently, and people don't understand the democratic message.
Speaker 1: And people don't think it's just like, oh, protect democracy
Speaker 1: or Trump or you know, something like that. It's it's
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's got to be some unifying, mobilizing
Speaker 1: message that counters the Republican's message. So that to me
Speaker 1: is even I mean it's not like I'm comparing or
Speaker 1: anything like that, but I would say I'm worried about
Speaker 1: I'm worried about that. I mean, I think that worries
Speaker 1: an understatement at this stage life point. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't even know what the word is that I would use,
Speaker 1: but worries seems light, you know, like, no, it's we
Speaker 1: live in an era where like people are with a
Speaker 1: street face saying the word monkey box. Like I totally
Speaker 1: agree with you that worries. Yeah, very nice Yeah, worries
Speaker 1: feels very early offs. Yeah, it feels it feels very
Speaker 1: ray through. Um panic, panic is more, is more? Is more?
Speaker 1: The soup di you're here, Um when we are looking though,
Speaker 1: you know, for instance, because you bring up monkey Box
Speaker 1: and you know, my girlfriend said to me the other day,
Speaker 1: She's like, can we just take one crisis at a time?
Speaker 1: Why is everything happening in waves like and not? Like
Speaker 1: waves set up easily for surfers, you know when they
Speaker 1: come in and you can see the sets forming out. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: It's like a friggan tsunami just keeps hitting. So let's
Speaker 1: transition into our public health crises. Let me let me
Speaker 1: say one thing about that first, if you don't mind, Like,
Speaker 1: it's just that the paradigm of what's possible in society
Speaker 1: and the world just keeps changing. Like I keep thinking
Speaker 1: about the conversation you and I had the week that
Speaker 1: Putin invaded the Ukraine, right and or Ukraine, and it
Speaker 1: was like we were it was we couldn't conceptualize that
Speaker 1: even that kind of warfare was possible in the world
Speaker 1: right now. And so I was looking back on that
Speaker 1: interview the other day, just because we were talking about
Speaker 1: Rocky and the Russia, and you know, it just felt like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy's like living in the eighties.
Speaker 1: And now four months later, like war is like it
Speaker 1: makes sense, right. The paradigm is regressive and it's depressing.
Speaker 1: And it also within four months has gone from like
Speaker 1: completely a joke and like something from you know, the
Speaker 1: Iron Age or something, to now where it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: nations invade other nations and we're having this huge military
Speaker 1: build up, and so every one of these waves it
Speaker 1: really feels like it changes our perspective, like we're falling
Speaker 1: back into such darkness. It feels like in a way,
Speaker 1: but it's weird that I don't know, it's just weird
Speaker 1: that like warfare makes sense now in a way that
Speaker 1: it didn't for four months ago. And I feel like
Speaker 1: every one of these things, like two weeks ago, monkeypox
Speaker 1: would be a joke from like the Wizard of Oz
Speaker 1: or something like that, and now we had got to
Speaker 1: worry about monkeypox. And so it's kind of like how
Speaker 1: many of these hits can you take, not just the
Speaker 1: crisis itself, but to like your entire worldview of like
Speaker 1: what's going to happen that's going to change the world
Speaker 1: and drive us back into you know, some prehistoric time
Speaker 1: or something. You know. I'll tell you that as I
Speaker 1: every day, right, we all get updates on where we
Speaker 1: are with the war in Ukraine. And I listened to
Speaker 1: a analyst yes today say this is escalating into a
Speaker 1: world war. And I don't see how it doesn't continue
Speaker 1: to escalate into a world war. What do you make
Speaker 1: of that? Right like this, the world is already at
Speaker 1: war with COVID. Now we have monkey pocks, we have
Speaker 1: literally we have literally issued every single type of foreseeable
Speaker 1: sanction for Russia and putin without putting troops on the ground,
Speaker 1: which we keep pushing back on. And I know neither
Speaker 1: one of us are foreign affairs experts, but if you
Speaker 1: pay attention these days, um and have been embedded in this,
Speaker 1: you understand what is at stake and what's at play.
Speaker 1: I mean, is this just inevitable? Like inevitable? I mean
Speaker 1: we threatened China also yesterday, Oh I'm sorry, I decided
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom, so I missed that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's not the surprise of all this is that
Speaker 1: we grew up in an era like we've had. We
Speaker 1: had two World wars in the last century, right in
Speaker 1: the past century, and then the destruction was seemingly so
Speaker 1: terrifying based on the Holocaust and the atomic bomb and
Speaker 1: all those things that we put a world order into
Speaker 1: place that we grew we were born into, right, we
Speaker 1: grew up with that. Of course, there's the United Nations.
Speaker 1: Of course, a big nation doesn't eat a smaller nation.
Speaker 1: That kind of aggression was unheard of. And also a
Speaker 1: public health apparatus. We grew up after the polio vaccine.
Speaker 1: We grew up after penicillin had been discovered. But if
Speaker 1: you look at the even the kind of history of humanity,
Speaker 1: most people grew up when there was war and pestilence,
Speaker 1: and so maybe the problem is we thought we had
Speaker 1: escaped all of that, and now we're getting taught lesson
Speaker 1: Maybe this is a challenge to humanity and we're going
Speaker 1: to join together at some point and work it all out.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's it's like we're being challenged
Speaker 1: in a way that feels like very fourteen hundreds kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, But then you realize it's it's a humility,
Speaker 1: you know, with a bit of humility, you realize that
Speaker 1: most people in the history of humanity have grown up
Speaker 1: with these kind of threats. It's just that we haven't
Speaker 1: because we we've grown up with a certain order, and
Speaker 1: that order in many ways, which was the result of
Speaker 1: so much death, destruction and destruction, and not just about
Speaker 1: world wars, but also people dying in support of the
Speaker 1: civil rights movement, people rallying in supportive women's reproductive rights.
Speaker 1: All those things were just so much more tenuous than
Speaker 1: we realized, and we didn't take the warning signs seriously enough.
Speaker 1: And this pandemic has been tribalizing, multiplier on stage roids.
Speaker 1: All those things have happened, and so it feels like
Speaker 1: the world order that we've known is in the process
Speaker 1: of changing. And I don't know, I just some days
Speaker 1: I want to fight it and some days I want
Speaker 1: to like just run away. Oh yeah, you know. It
Speaker 1: was funny because the other day I was saying that,
Speaker 1: you know, what is happening for me, because I want
Speaker 1: to shift with a couple of minutes, that we have
Speaker 1: to just talk about mental health, right, and how we
Speaker 1: were all managing or not managing frankly during this time,
Speaker 1: And you hit the nail on the head when you
Speaker 1: said we grew up at a time when we were
Speaker 1: the beneficiaries of the guardrails and the institutions, global institutions
Speaker 1: and agencies that were put together to I guess, stave
Speaker 1: off this kind of of chaos and destruction while the
Speaker 1: while we still grew up with the drug wars and
Speaker 1: all of these things in the United States, and there
Speaker 1: weren't I mean, there are many moments, like peak moments
Speaker 1: of things, but not this kind of confluence of destruction
Speaker 1: for people who are younger, though, this is what they
Speaker 1: are like. Isn't a part of youth recognizing that there
Speaker 1: is stable ground for you to kind of fly off
Speaker 1: from and seek out the world, but you have this
Speaker 1: like foundation. What do you think happens when these young
Speaker 1: kids that are growing up now Gen Z, the generations
Speaker 1: coming below them that will never know stability, they'll be
Speaker 1: much better at instability. I mean, yeah, I would bet
Speaker 1: that there'll be much more depressed and tribal and fearful
Speaker 1: and aggressive. If I had to get if I had
Speaker 1: to just put it that way, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Or maybe they'll save us, maybe they'll maybe they'll rally
Speaker 1: in supportive shared humanity. I don't know. It's such an
Speaker 1: unsettling world that we've built. And the crazy thing, of course,
Speaker 1: is that on one hand, the world is being destabilized
Speaker 1: by people of the Putin generation and the Trump generation.
Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of like seventy year old white
Speaker 1: dudes who are making the world a lot worse right now,
Speaker 1: which is amazing because they're the ones on their way out. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's probably this is their parting gift. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I used to believe all this, you know, oh when
Speaker 1: the Republicans are afraid because the youth coming up are
Speaker 1: so much more you know, queer friendly and multicultural and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it would be like to grow up right now.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're much more like conflict friendly, who knows. I
Speaker 1: would just say that there's a mental health crisis right now,
Speaker 1: and part of that mental health is about psychology, and
Speaker 1: part of it is a pretty adequate reflection of the
Speaker 1: very unsable world that people are entering into, and not
Speaker 1: just medically, but economically, politically, all these factors. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a better answer for that. I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I said ye on yesterday's
Speaker 1: show is that I have been struggling a lot. I
Speaker 1: personally have been having like weekly breakdowns. I will burst
Speaker 1: into tears and I'm just like, where is this coming from?
Speaker 1: And i would be I would start to like beat
Speaker 1: up on myself and say, like you need to power through,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot going on, but like there's a
Speaker 1: lot going on for everyone, and then I'll just crumble.
Speaker 1: And so I said yesterday that I believe that what
Speaker 1: we all have to understand and learn is how to
Speaker 1: give ourselves grace that like our breakdowns may not make sense,
Speaker 1: they may not be linear, right because there are so
Speaker 1: many causes at this time that we may not know
Speaker 1: how to manage. So with the last minute or so left, Jonathan, like,
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for people right now that
Speaker 1: are struggling with their mental health? Because I know that
Speaker 1: there are millions that are. I mean, you and I
Speaker 1: are talking about it on national television right now, and
Speaker 1: so I would say, I would say honesty and community
Speaker 1: is important right now. And so I do think that
Speaker 1: reaching out, I mean there's a level I just see
Speaker 1: this in a lot of my friend groups that even
Speaker 1: in my softball team, everybody was going around talking about
Speaker 1: how anxious they were. One of my friends told me,
Speaker 1: which was not a good idea. She took to clun
Speaker 1: up and right before the game, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: the soft falls coming at your head hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 1: Take it out to the glam. But I just think
Speaker 1: there's a level of openness to vulnerability right now, which
Speaker 1: I think Breeze community. Two weeks from now, i'll be
Speaker 1: doing our show. I'll be in Sweden and then Denmark.
Speaker 1: I'm giving a keynote address, and so I'm curious to
Speaker 1: see what mental health looks like in a place where
Speaker 1: they're more at least communal functioning infrastructure. That might be
Speaker 1: an interesting point of connection. So I'm also curious to
Speaker 1: see what people are feeling in Scandinavia right now. So
Speaker 1: I'll give you the yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll know we'll
Speaker 1: be talking there and I'll be and I'll just because
Speaker 1: my senses, my senses that social cohesion is very psychologically
Speaker 1: beneficial right now. Places that have social capital and social
Speaker 1: infrastructure are probably doing better right now. But I'm going
Speaker 1: to test that out and report back in real time
Speaker 1: to see, all right, we love it, Jonathan, as always,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time for us
Speaker 1: here at woke app and we'll be in touch next
Speaker 1: week when you are abroad. Now it'll be two weeks
Speaker 1: we have. I have two more weeks to talk about
Speaker 1: despair here and then I'll be checking and then we'll
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