WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: S.S. Arctic 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.640 Happy Saturday. The ss Arctic sank on September twenty seventh, 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.160 eighteen fifty four, or one hundred and seventy one years 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.640 ago today on the day this episode is coming out. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.800 Our episode on this disaster is Today's Saturday Classic. 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.480 Please excuse our pronouncing the word Newfoundland the way we 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 were taught to pronounce it in school, which is also 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:27.680 how it's listed as pronounced in American English dictionaries, rather 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.000 than the way many Canadians have told us that it 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.800 ought to be pronounced. This episode originally came out on 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:42.120 January fifteenth, twenty fourteen. Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:50.479 in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.520 Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fryed, I'm 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:55.680 Tracy V. Wilson. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:57.960 And if there's a thing we get lots of requests for, 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.000 it is more maritime and ship yep. So we're going 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.440 to head back to the ocean today. And this particular 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.160 incident is often held in a particularly tragic light because 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.640 it seems that in the sinking of this ship, which 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.919 was the ss Arctic, the what we now today perceive 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.200 as a rule of women and children first, and. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.800 The captain goes down to this ship. Those things did 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.319 not hold true. None of the women or children aboard 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:29.000 the vessel survived the sinking spoiler alert. And the captain 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.200 did survive, even though he. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.920 Did not expect to. Yeah, he did not abandon ship, 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.840 but he did survive the ordeal. Yeah, we'll also talk 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.760 about this whole women and children first idea. Yeah, end 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.240 of the episode. Yeah, once we have all this context 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.040 under our belts. Yeah, there's some cool modern statistical analysis 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.040 that's been done as well as some research on sort 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.000 of where that concept came from, and it puts things 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.520 in an interesting light I think when we talk about shipwrecks. Yeah, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.880 so we're gonna start was talking about the SS Arctic 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.920 and it was completed in eighteen fifty and by every account, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.960 it was a really glorious ship. She was the third 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.720 of four Atlantic steamers and the Colins Fleet, and they 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.880 were recognized as just the finest of their time when 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.959 they were introduced. The other ships were the Atlantic, the Pacific, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:18.160 and the Baltic. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.320 And the Pride of the Collins Line of New York, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.040 which was founded by Edward Knightcollins. The Arctic was a 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.960 wooden hull paddelwheel steamer that was designed to carry both 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.279 cargo a small amount and up to two hundred passengers, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.040 although the passenger space was expanded to accommodate two hundred 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.200 and eighty passengers in eighteen fifty one. And it was 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.640 two hundred and eighty five feet long, which is about 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.080 eighty seven meters, and it weighed in at two eight 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:47.880 hundred and fifty six tons. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.760 Although it launched on January twenty first, eighteen fifty its 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.280 maiden voyage didn't happen until October twenty seventh of that year. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.720 And like her three sister ships, the Arctic could maintain 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.760 a speed of twelve knot, which was really fast for 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.360 the time, and in February of eighteen fifty two, the 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.600 Arctic set a record for the fastest eastbound crossing of 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.720 the Atlantic, hitting a speed of more than thirteen knots 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.720 and sustaining it for a while. When the Arctic started 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.640 its career, it was part of a lucrative contract that 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.600 the Collins Line had with the United States Government to 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.840 be a mail runner between America and Great Britain, and 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.480 in addition to their income from mail service, they competed 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:32.080 with the well established Canard line, which came out of 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.400 Britain for passenger service. Yeah, and initially the Colins line 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.640 did very well against Kinnard. Their ships were really big 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.080 and beautiful, they were brand new. They could run several 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.640 knots faster than the Cunard fleet. But the cost of 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.520 ongoing maintenance of this advanced machinery that was in the 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.160 Colin ships did draw off some of their competitive edge 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.840 and sometimes it would put their ships out of rotation 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.320 while they were being serviced. So when you see sort 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.920 of a business analysis of the situation, it's Collins arrived 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.080 on the scene and initially stole a lot of business 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.160 from Kunard, and then it kind of leveled out as 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.160 it became apparent that, you know, they couldn't always be 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.480 running all of the ships, and it did cost a lot, 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.680 so their initial wide profit margin shrank a little bit 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.719 as it had to be allocated into just maintaining the fleet. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.880 On Wednesday, September twentieth, eighteen fifty four, the SS Arctic 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.520 departed from Liverpool on what would it be its last voyage. 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.400 On board were two hundred and thirty three passengers and 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.120 one hundred and fifty or so crew members. The captain 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.479 was James C. Loose and on September twenty seventh, so 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.960 a week into the voyage, the ship entered into a 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.440 thick fog while it was approaching the Grand Banks, which 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.760 is southeast of Newfoundland, Canada. Also in the fog was 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.280 the French vessel Vesta, which was headed for grand Ville, France. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.240 When the Vesta was spotted, they sounded the alarm, but 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.839 both ships traveling at full speed and it was just 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:02.400 too late. 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.560 A collision was unavoidable at that point. And while it 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.119 may sound incredibly reckless for a ship to be running 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.760 a head full in dicey visibility, it was actually policy 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.160 at this time in the Collins line to run through 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.120 a fog as quickly as possible so that they could 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.440 clear the visual obstruction in the shortest possible time. Yes, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.320 this policy was as unwise as it sounds, though it 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.279 was not uncommon for ships to do this at the 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.160 time because the Vesta was doing a similar thing. So 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.800 I feel like it's important to mention that this was 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.960 not a poor judgment call on the captain's part. That 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.800 was just standard operating procedure right to get into fog 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.200 and gun it. It does in sort of a Hindenburg 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.480 kind of a situation. Yeah, in hindsight, what a poor idea. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.200 Both of the ships were damaged in the collision, and 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.920 initially it was believed that the Vesta, in spite of 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.360 having this eye iron hull, had been damaged much worse. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.680 This belief was so pervasive that the passengers and the 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.479 crew of the Vesta started traveling to the Arctic. But 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.880 it became quickly apparent that the Arctic was sinking and 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.640 was not going to help anybody in the situation, and 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.359 the Arctic's wooden hull had been basically annihilated by the 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.120 iron hull of the Vesta. There were multiple holes, and 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.400 the ship quickly took on water, and the speed of 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.880 the ocean rushing in through these multiple large holes caused 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.119 a panic aboard the Arctic. The captain directed the crew 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.919 to point the ship toward the closest land, which was 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.599 Cape Race, and they started to accelerate toward it, but 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.040 they took on more and more water and started to 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.440 sink faster. Within four hours, the ship's furnaces were taking 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.400 on water and that just stopped the steamer dead. And meanwhile, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.880 the panicked crewmen did not follow the captain's orders to 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.359 prioritize the lives of the women and children and instead dead, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.360 many of them jumped into the lifeboats themselves. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.479 The first attempts to launch the lifeboats resulted in those 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:12.000 boats being destroyed and the men aboard were lost. Subsequent 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.160 boats did launch successfully, but most of them were lost 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.680 at sea. A large raft that was assembled from the 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.640 wreckage started out with nearly eighty passengers. All but one 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.600 of them were eventually swept into the water, and only 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.480 two of the lifeboats reached Newfoundland, carrying a total of 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.840 forty five men, and two thirds of those men were 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.160 I think it's thirty one men and fourteen as the numbers. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.600 Two thirds were crew members and only fourteen were passengers. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.440 Captain Luce had tried to save his unconscious son, although 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.920 as the ship continued to break apart, he was hit 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.280 in the head by a piece of debris and killed. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.320 The captain managed to scramble aboard a paddle box and 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.200 use it as a raft, and he and two other 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.160 men were eventually we picked up by the Cambria. The 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.680 Cambria was captained by John Russell, and it picked them 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.640 up on September twenty ninth, so all one hundred and 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.360 nine of the women and children that were aboard were killed, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.360 as well as one hundred and forty nine male passengers 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:19.720 and ninety two crew members. And then I think we 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.000 should have a note on these numbers, because the actual 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.600 number of deceased fluctuates a good bit amongst accounts, you'll 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.200 see anywhere from two eighty five to three fifty one listed, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.680 So the counts, even in women and children, passengers, and crews, 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.600 should not be taken as absolute. Some passengers managed to 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.880 make it to the Vesta and they would have been 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.640 theoretically reported, and others were picked up adrift in the water, 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.520 but they there wasn't always a clear line of record 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.240 as to what had happened to everybody. So even like 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.320 the captain's account, which we'll get to in a bit, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.760 he lists the two hundred and thirty three passengers, but 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.520 their historical accounts will list different ones. So just keep 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.600 that in mind that there's some sponginess to the math 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:07.240 on this whole thing. 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:07.600 Yeah. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.960 Well, and at the point that he was rescued, he'd 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.319 been in the water for a couple of days. Yeah, 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:18.280 so we cannot imagine his mental state, although based on 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.760 his description, which we'll get too shortly. It was an 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:26.080 extremely rough experience as you would imagine, also aboard the 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.120 ship during this wreck, where E. K. Collins's wife and 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.480 his children and they, naturally, based on those numbers that 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.920 we just said, did not survive. The Vesta did manage 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.000 to make port in Saint John's three days after the collision, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.880 and accounts of the time kind of talked about the 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.760 great skill of her captain at managing to take that 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.120 damage ship into port. But before we get to the 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.280 next little bit of business and how this affected the 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.600 Collins line, would you like to take a moment and 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:54.800 talk about our sponsors. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:55.560 Let's do that. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:10.440 So let's get back to what happened once people realized 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:11.360 the death toll. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:19.800 Yeah. So, as news of this horrible incident reached news 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.720 outlets and the shore, the disproportionate amount of the crew 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:30.280 survivors versus passenger caused a major scandal on both sides 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.920 of the Atlantic, and it really really set in motion 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.400 what was eventually the financial ruin of the Collins line. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.520 While the American Maritime Company had initially been a huge 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.320 threat to the established Quneard line of Britain, the Singing 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.679 of the Arctic, followed by the disappearance of the Pacific 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.040 during a voyage in eighteen fifty six, meant that the 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.319 Collins line was basically finished, despite attempts to revive their 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.400 reputation with a new and larger vessel named the Adriatic. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.520 They went and bank just a few years after the 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.400 Pacific was lost, and. 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.760 As a point of interest, the Kunard line is still 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.720 in business today. They did quite well for themselves and survived. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.240 And now we get to Captain Luce's account of what happened. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.040 So on October fourteenth of eighteen fifty four in Quebec, 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.640 the captain wrote a letter to E. K. Collins to 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.840 describe the incident and notify him of his family member's deaths. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.360 And the letter begins with Dear sir, it becomes my 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.040 painful duty to inform you of the total loss of 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.680 the Arctic under my command, with many lives, and I 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.440 fear among them must be included your own wife, daughter 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.120 and son, of whom I took a last leave the 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.240 moment the ship was going down, without ever expecting to 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.120 see the light of another day. To give you an 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:52.160 account of the heartrending scene. He goes on to say 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.000 that about fifteen minutes after leaving the deck at noon, 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.559 he heard hard starboard called out from the officers of 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.280 the deck, and immediately after the crash, Loose himself believed 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.920 that the primary goal that he and the crew should 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.960 focus on should be the rescue of the people aboard 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.080 the Vesta. They really did think that the Vesta was 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.480 the one that was going to go down, and his 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.880 account says that his first officer took six men and 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.920 one of the boats with the intent that they were 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.120 going over to the Vesta to collect people to bring 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.840 back to the Arctic. He also describes the general state 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.520 of panic and the abandonment of the women and children. 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.520 He writes, finding the leak gaining on us very fast, 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.280 notwithstanding all our very powerful efforts to keep her free, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.400 I resolved to get the boats ready and as many 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.200 ladies and children placed in them as possible. But no 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.680 sooner had the attempt been made than the firemen and 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.280 others rushed into them in spite of opposition. Seeing this 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.880 state of things, I ordered the boats astern to be 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.400 kept in readiness until order could be restored. When, to 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.040 my dismay, I saw them cut the ropes in the 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.960 bow and soon disappear as stern in the fog. Another 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.800 boat was broken down by the persons rushing at the davits, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.240 and many were precipitated into the sea and drowned. This 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.559 occurred while I had been engaged in setting the starboard 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.680 guard boat ready and placed the second officer in charge, 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.440 when the same fearful scene is what the first boat 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.719 was being enacted. Men leaping from the top of the 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.839 rail twenty feet, pushing and maiming those who were in 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:30.319 the boat. So quite clearly not exactly noble or chivalrous behavior. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.600 And this is a quick side note. When we reference 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.520 firemen in this instance you probably know by context, but 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.640 they mean the people that are working in the steam 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.319 engine area, not firemen in the modern sense of people 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.760 that deal with fires. One of his officers, who was 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.199 a mister Dorian, did try to get a boat filled 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.880 with women and children loaded, but when an alarm sounded 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.840 signaling that the ship was sinking, the boat was really 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.200 hastily shoved off with no oars or other safety equipment. Yeah, 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.000 it sounds like he tried to keep the oars out 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.880 of the boat on purpose, so that these gentlemen that 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:07.960 were rushing the boats and just trying to take them 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.360 would not be as tempted to. But as a consequence, 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.120 those oars got left behind when the boat was shoved 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.719 off without sort of a proper check, and Luce describes 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.440 the sinking, and he says, in an instant, about a 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.000 quarter to five pm, the ship went down, carrying every 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.120 soul on board with her. I soon found myself on 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.040 a surface after a brief struggling, with my own helpless 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.800 child in my arms. And when again I felt myself 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.920 impelled downwards to a great depth, And before I reached 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.840 the surface a second time, had nearly perished and lost 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.880 the hold of my child. As I again struggled to 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.480 the surface of the water, a most awful and heartrending 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.800 scene presented itself to my view. Over two hundred men, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.280 women and children struggling together amidst pieces of wreck of 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.440 every kind, calling on each other for help and imploring 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.520 God to assist them. Such an appalling scene, May God 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.440 preserve me from ever witnessing again. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.240 LuSE goes on to give an account of losing his 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.640 son and watching the others die slowly around him during 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.520 the days of drift, And it's truly harrowing. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.320 It really is. It's so it's one of those letters 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.920 that's clearly written from the point of view of a 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.560 man who is trying to do his job and write 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.440 a report and is clearly messed up by the whole thing. 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.960 And it should be noted that he captained nine other 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.720 vessels before taking his position on the Arctic, and he 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:27.680 had lost only two of them, which was actually quite 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.440 a good record. He was considered to be a really 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.800 skillful navigator and a very able captain. And according to 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.080 his obituary, when he returned to his hometown of Yonkers, 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.600 New York after this incident, he quote found two long 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.960 lines of citizens formed through which he walked, receiving warm 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.880 congratulations and hearty welcome. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.800 He then went on to work for more than two 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.680 decades as an inspector for the Great Western Marine Insurance Company, 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.040 and he died in July eighteen seventy nine of heart disease. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.680 He was seventy nine years old. And we're going to 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.040 pause one more moment and take another word from a sponsor, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.520 and then we're going to talk about some modern analysis 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:17.280 of this stuff. Yeah, so, now let's look at this 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.240 whole idea of women and children first. Yeah, that's one 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.160 of those things where it's a good question to ask 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.120 where it came from and sort of how that happened. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.480 And it's in an interesting coda to this issue. There 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.360 was a study that was performed by the Uppsala University 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.080 in Sweden and it was published in July of twenty twelve, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.320 and it suggested that women and children actually have the 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.760 least likelihood of survival in a maritime disaster. This study 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.720 was co authored by two economists, Mikhail Ellender and Oscar Erickson, 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.560 and they analyzed data from eighteen shipwrecks that happened between 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.880 eighteen fifty two and twenty eleven. They only included the 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.440 instance that involved at least one hundred people with at 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.000 least five percent surviving and at least five percent dying, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.200 and these statistics took into account the fates of more 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:12.120 than fifteen thousand people from thirty countries. Yeah, and those 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:13.840 numbers kind of gave me a bit of a jolt 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.360 at first, and like, fifteen thousand people, but it's only 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.399 eighteen shipwrecks, and when you're thinking about it in the 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:23.240 context of a shipwreck like this, where it's roughly three 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.520 hundred ish people. That seems impossible math, But then when 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.520 you think about the more modern ones right, Cruise liners, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.639 for example, can carry anywhere between two to six thousand 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.640 people depending on their size, so that kind of makes 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.120 up for those what seems like a big number gap 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.760 maybe on first look. And the Titanic, which was included 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.520 in this study, had three times more women survive the 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.160 incident than men, but this turned out to be the 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.840 exception rather than the rule. A similar outlier was the 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.800 HMS Birkenhead, which sank in eighteen fifty two, and in fact, 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.760 the Women and Children First Rule is sometimes referred to 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.439 as the Birkenhead drill because that ship, sinking off the 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.280 coast of South Africa is usually recognized as the first 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.199 time that order was ever given. So all of the 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.640 women and children that had been aboard the Birkenhead did 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:17.439 actually survive, while many soldiers just stood there silently, sinking 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.760 with the ship into shark infested waters. According to Ellender 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.919 and Ericsson's findings, women were only half as likely to 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.280 survive a shipwreck as men. Crew members had an eighteen 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.600 point seven percent greater chance of survival than passengers, and 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.080 only seven out of sixteen captains actually went down with 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:42.359 the ship and their data set. And furthermore, women had 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.560 the worst survival rates on British vessels, even though the 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.200 women and Children first Order is documented as having been 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.680 given much more frequently on British ships than other vessels. Yeah, 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:55.840 and today people look at it as sort of a 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.000 Victorian British sensibility in particular. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:00.639 Yeah. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.679 Prior to this research, there had been a theory that 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.560 selfish behavior would more likely erupt on fast sinking ships, 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.480 while a slower sinking would allow people who were involved 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.920 to stay calmer and exhibit more socially accepted behavior patterns. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.399 But Elsinder and Erickson found that it was actually the 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.919 captain's behavior rather than a time sensitive situation, that tended 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.560 to determine the crew's behavior. So in only five of 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.159 those eighteen sinkings that they studied was the women and 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.960 Children first order issued by a captain. Ellender frames this 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.159 information as an insight into human behavior. He says, although 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.280 maritime disasters are tragic events, they can contribute to our 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.640 understanding of how people behave under extreme stress and when 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.080 it is a matter of life and death. Yeah, I 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.840 think it's one of those things where it's easy to 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:58.960 kind of vilify people or kind of judge them for 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.840 their behavior. But I I don't know how I would 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.679 react in such a moment. I don't think you know 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.520 until you're in it. Yeah, well, as you've undergone very 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:11.600 specific like emergency style training, right. Well, in their particular 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.679 study looks generally at the question of men and women, 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.760 but not some of the other factors that influence who 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.919 makes it off the ship and who doesn't. Like on 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.400 the Titanic, for example, first class women and children had 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.600 a pretty astounding survival rate, but women and children in 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.919 steerage did not so much. Yeah, so it was not 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.960 quite so much women and children first as it was 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.280 rich women and children first when it came to in 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.640 the Titanic in particular, I kind of after I read 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:45.280 your notes, I kind of went down this rabbit hole 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.480 of the whole idea of women and children first and 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.560 where it comes from and what it means today when 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.720 since when it first came about was in the eighteen fifties, 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.560 and that was a very different time in terms of 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.719 gender relation and relations and sort of the perception of 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.159 women as both whether women were perceived as weak or 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.560 strong and whether women were perceived as like actual autonomous 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.880 people or objects. Right, So I kind of went down 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.359 a crazy rabbit hole of that, and it reminded me 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.200 in a way of how I've traveled by ship several 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.040 times in the past few years, and we always have 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.960 a safety drill, and the safety drill is always about 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.680 getting everyone off the ship. It's about like every person 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.000 knowing where they need to go to get on a lifeboat, 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:35.199 and every ship having enough lifeboat accommodations for every person 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.120 on the ship to make it off safely. Yep. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.120 And the only real reference to children that has come 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.960 up in the ships that I have been on has 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.159 been that for the parents, if their children are not 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.720 with them, the parents are to go to their lifeboat 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.800 station and their children will be brought to them by crew, 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.119 because all the children have to have little wristbands or 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.640 whatever on saying this is my lifeboat station. So it's 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:01.080 like there are still special accommodations for children, but other 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:08.800 accommodations seem to be based on actual threats to people's safety, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.879 people who may have a mobility impairment that need to 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.159 be assisted with getting off the ship, and not so 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:17.280 much based on gender or class yeah, and it is 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.399 also a very different time in terms of now this 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.400 is kind of always referenced as part of the Titanic's legacy. 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.399 Now there are enough lifeboats for everyone. They did that 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.080 on purpose, yes, whereas there were not. That was not 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.679 standard operating procedure for a very long time, right, So 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.600 it did become a matter of who do we save? 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.440 And there have been some interesting discussions if you kind 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.280 of trawl around the internet and like maritime interest boards 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:47.240 at all, where discussions will come up of well, women 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:51.480 and children are less likely just physically to survive something 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.320 like hypothermia adrift at sea than men might. So in 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.000