WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - January 2nd, 2026 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:13.000 This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.599 that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:22.520 and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.880 and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:31.480 Daily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.960 Hi everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.160 Happy New Year, and as we wrapped up one year 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.720 kicked off another. Some of the main themes for twenty 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.680 twenty six definitely came into focus just in the past 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.720 week or two. A focus on the FED, the conundrum 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.800 of the US consumer, the AI spend and build out, 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.800 and political division, debate and disruption. Yes, sounds a lot 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.520 like how we began twenty twenty five one year ago. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.160 So this hour we explore the health of the consumer 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.240 and how AI impacting the retail space, and more broadly, 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.560 where the AI spend may take investors in twenty twenty six. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.360 On politics, we check out what New York City's political 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.120 shift could mean for business in the Big Apple. A 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.080 well known voice to the city's executive suite and member 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.440 of the transition team of the city's new mayor, Zo 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:17.880 run Mamdani stops by. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.759 Plus, we've got the story of the Donald Trump meme 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:22.920 coin launch and how the team behind it made an 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.679 estimated three hundred and fifty million dollars while many other 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.119 investors lost money. Then, in our second hour, in honor 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.120 of New Year celebrations, we kick back and dig into 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.920 some of our favorite conversations of the past year with 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.320 leaders in the wine and spirits businesses. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.520 Perfect for a little New Year's celebration. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.920 Yes, I feel like we've earned it this past week. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.040 Yeah, I think that's fair to say. All that to come. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.639 We begin, though, with AI affecting a lot in our world, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.200 with much more forecast to come. We may get a 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.040 peek into that this coming week at CEES. It's the 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.800 annual Consumer Technology Conference and it gets underway in Las 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:01.680 Vegas this coming week. The biggest names in tech, including Nvidia, AMD, Samsung, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:06.280 and more, will make the case for AI their target audience, investors, 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.400 corporate clients, and perhaps just as importantly, ordinary shoppers who've 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.480 yet to be fully sold on the idea of AI 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:13.520 infused gadgets. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.799 And speaking of we ordinary shoppers. They we are increasingly 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.920 using AI agents to perform deep discount hunting, real time 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.320 product comparisons, and personalized gift curation that according to data 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.000 from the AI Shopping Optimization platform. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.360 Novy, retailers including Macy's, Sephora, Target, and Alta, along with 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.680 thousands of other consumer package goods brands, rely on Novy 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.920 to optimize their product data for AI driven discovery. Kimberly 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.639 Shank is the company's CEO. She joined Carol and Bloomberg's. 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:45.840 Vonnie Quinn Novi's technology. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.040 We're actually helping retailers and brands increase their sales by 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.119 ensuring their products are found and trusted and then ultimately 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.200 recommended by AI models. So thank CHATCHBT, Gemini and Claude 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.120 and so we do this. We work with leading retailers 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.080 including Macy's, Sephora, Target, Aulta, thousands of CpG brands, and 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.480 they rely on us to optimize their product data for 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.560 AI driven discovery by consumers. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.480 So when you say that, it's basically a consumer who 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.840 does something and their data is processed and recorded, and 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.400 they're saying, oh, you bought that pair of pants, maybe 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:18.960 you would like this pair of pants is that is 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.480 it as simple as something like that or is it 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:21.360 more sophisticated. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.040 It's a little bit different in terms of consumers now 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.960 flocking to chat shipt or Gemini and asking questions to 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.680 actually do their shopping. So they're outsourcing a lot of 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:36.640 their research, discount hunting, you know, personalized gift curation to 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.440 the AI agent who's then gooing and finding products and 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.760 recommending it to them based on just questions and prompts. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.840 So who are your competitors and how do you stand 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:46.520 out from them? 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:47.520 It's interesting. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.760 So there's a couple of different up and coming competitors 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.080 in the tech space who are helping brands and retailers 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.240 stand out in AI shopping. But we also have a 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.560 lot of the older, more traditional data companies because we 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.840 are a data company and we feed data with throw 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.840 our partnerships with our retailer partners. So think about Syndigo 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.080 or Salsify or even Nilsen Iq some of those older 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.080 data partnership players. So a lot of what we're doing 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.440 in these partnerships, and we'll be able to announce some 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.960 of them really soon, is feeding trustworthy, personalized information to 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.960 the models themselves, which is what we have seen at 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.640 NOV to increase your potential as a brand to show 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.680 up in AI shopping. So we found that you know, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.560 products that have verified trust signals are a selected two 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.120 hundred and fifty nine percent more often than random chance 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.400 to think like certifications, reviews, badges, third party testing. And 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.240 we're feeding this directly to the retailers and the models 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.159 so that they help the brands show up in AI 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:41.640 recommendations to consumers. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.400 So one of the things I always think about, Kim 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.760 is like, how much of what is spent on AI 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.520 to kind of attract consumers retailers or folks to retailers. So, 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.360 in other words, that AI driven traffic to retail sites, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.880 how much of it is productive that results in actually 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.400 a consumer buying something. 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.119 Yeah, that's actually a very interesting question. So we're seeing 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.799 the traffics start to increase. There's actually we saw from 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.919 Adobe Analytics, like we just said, five hundred and twenty 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:11.479 percent over last year from AI. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:13.920 But what we're not sure about yet is conversion. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.440 And this is just because CHATCHBT, Gemini, none of them 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.200 are publishing the conversion. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.320 Results, but we at no V. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.640 What we did see is that chatgbt's shopping research answers 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.200 sent consumers directly to the brand's website eighty six percent 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.520 of the time, which means that the remainder of traffic, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.480 you know, only about fourteen percent was sent to the 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.480 large retailers like Walmart or Target. And so what brands 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.360 are starting to see is more and more direct consumer 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.080 traffic to their website, which is driving conversion in sales 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:39.400 for them. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:41.680 So would you say, based on the data that you see, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.120 could you see so much data that the consumer's doing well, 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.800 that retail's doing well? Like how much could you can 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.320 obviously break it down? Probably a lot, So give us 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.160 a little bit of insight as we get ready to 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.279 wrap up this hotiday shopping season. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.600 Well, so what we're actually seeing is, you know, consumers 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.440 are using AI as their category manager. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:05:59.880 So think of. 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:01.760 It is we all used to trust the big box 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.000 retailers for their ability to manage each shopping category, do 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:06.120 the curation for us. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:07.960 And that's why you walked into a Target, right. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.280 They scoured the earth for the best, most compelling products 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.599 and we trusted them to do that. But now, and 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:14.880 what we say saw play out this holiday season, the 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.479 consumer has shifted their trust to AI to do the 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.760 research and curation for them. So we're seeing strong numbers 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:25.280 and users using chat to BT and shopping, but it's 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.800 just not quite played out yet and we'll see that 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:28.800 in twenty twenty six. 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.440 Is where that conversion is going to happen. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.359 If it's going to happen direct on the brand websites 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:33.280 are still in retail. 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.240 Kimbridy, just a word on yourselves, how difficult is it 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:37.039 to raise money? 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.400 What are the key words that. 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.560 Investors are looking for these days? And you know the 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:43.279 key ideas. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.240 Yes, AI is definitely the hot topic. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.320 If you are not involved in AI, doing something future 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.239 with your company that's progressing AI. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.400 So for example, we're an agentic commerce. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.600 That is what is hot for investors these days, and 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.680 that's what is raising money and getting the majority of 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:00.520 the cowpit. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:01.480 In Soldier Valley. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.040 That was Kimberly Shanks, CEO of Novi Vonnie sticking around 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:06.159 for this next conversation. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.120 Yeah, that's right, Tim, and it was a chat where 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.520 we explored what may be the next AI trade for investors. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.240 Chip makers, no doubt have been the biggest winners of 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.400 the artificial intelligence spending frenzy this year and really for 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.600 a couple of years now, and Wall Street will look 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.280 for that momentum to continue for some of the biggest 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:23.680 names in twenty twenty six. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.360 And Yet, as Bloomberg's Ian King wrote in this week's 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.240 Tech and Deaf newsletter, quote, watching the less publicized chip 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.880 makers may be a better way of assessing the future 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.840 of artificial intelligence than keeping an eye on market leader 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.480 in Vidia. To talk the AI trade and what we 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.440 may expect this year, Carolyn Vonnie spoke to Bloomberg opinion 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:43.520 columnist Dave Lee. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:45.920 This will be a year when we start to say, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.080 you know, to what degree is AI actually being used 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.880 in real world applications? How is it changing logistics and 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:53.200 healthcare and medical. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:54.400 Story, how the return on investment? 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.480 Right, well, precisely return on investment, the practical use is 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.880 and that is something that for all the talk in 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.000 our current year about this that's kind of been missing. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.520 It's all down the road, right And so Ian in 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.640 his PC highlights companies like Texas Instruments and Analog Devices, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.640 And these are companies that specialize in kind of the 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.160 sort of lesser hailed parts of chip making, things that 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.600 go into cars, things that go into any you know, 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.080 sort of less sophisticated devices than say smartphones and so on. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.480 They and when it comes to AI, what we're talking 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.640 about there is what we call edge computing, So not 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.360 AI that happens in a big cloud somewhere, but something 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.440 that happens on a device or inside a robot or 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.040 does something that needs an immediate response from AI that 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.480 could be incredibly transformative. And so when investors are looking 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.880 at chip makers that are you know, that are on 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.040 the markets and want to say, well, who might be 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.240 an unsung hero those those companies may may may be 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:48.080 a clue. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.120 Dave, how much of two? Maybe in twenty twenty six 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.000 will also be about more productive chips Like I do 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.800 feel like with the energy crunch that folks who are 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.079 looking to build out AI data centers or do AI 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.640 or a large language models that they're looking for tips 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.680 that are much more energy efficient, like how much will 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.480 that be driving kind of the chip trate come twenty 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.240 twenty six? Then who stands out in that or is 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.000 it kind of a moving target? 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:13.760 Well, it's a moving target in the sense that with 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.959 every new iteration, particularly within video, they say their chips 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.040 get you know, vastly more energy efficient, you can do 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.920 more with fewer of them. The problem is that for 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.680 the companies that want to use these chips is that 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.240 the prices are going down, right, the price these chips 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.640 is still sky high. I think what was an interesting 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.720 story this year was when Google announced it was going 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.400 to be working with Better Now. Their chips aren't quite 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.319 as versatile and videos GPUs, but Google's TPUs they call 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.880 them tensor processing units. They are specialized at doing what 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.600 the companies want right now, which is training AI models, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.240 running AI models, and Google is saying, well, we can 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.480 do that more cheaply. And so for Google, which has 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.360 Google Cloud as it's obviously its cloud business, that's a 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.920 very attractive thing to companies that think, well we can't 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.719 quite get hold in video chips, let alone afford them. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.959 So I think the efficiency question is an important one. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.760 Availability is kind of also the side question. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:08.080 Now. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.200 I am like always shocked when I hear like Google 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:11.640 and their chips or Apple on the chips, and I 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.480 know this is something that's been happening over the years. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.640 Are we going to see more of that where companies 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.920 are doing more of this in house? And why are 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.960 they because it's cheaper or what is it? 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.120 It's cheaper. I mean, Apple is an incredible case here 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.800 because when you use an Apple product of you using 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.880 your iPhone, you can throw something from your iPhone to 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.920 your MacBook. You don't even have to have to send it. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.120 It just happens, right. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.640 A lot of this is because of them having this 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.320 sort of vertical integration. They designed the chips, they designed 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.080 the hardware and the computers, they designed the software computers. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.720 It all just works wonderfully. I sound like Steve Jobs 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.439 on stage trying to explain it, but he was right, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:48.840 and that is what they achieved. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:49.760 Now, if you're an AI. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:54.679 Company, open aiy is perhaps the interesting case study here. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.640 Open ai doesn't design its own chips. It desperately wants to. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.520 It's entered into a deal with Broadcom to do just that. 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.320 But it's quite a way down the line. And when 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.160 you look at other companies like Google, just as I mentioned, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.319 and Amazon as well, they're much further along in that process. 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.520 And what it means is they can specialize those chips 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.880 to do exactly what they want. And in Google's case, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.200 they decided to specialize in AI training and AI inference. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.079 That helped them do that quickly and do it. Do 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.320 that more efficiently. I think as time goes on with 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.120 the AI industry, having the same virtual integration that Apple 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.840 has enjoyed for consumer devices is going to be just 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:30.439 as valuable. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.920 For Dave ab ask you. We were talking about bitcoin 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.600 for literally fifteen years before it took off. We've been 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.600 talking about self driving cars for ten years, and when 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.599 we actually get full self driving it's going to be 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.200 probably another five or more years. Is it going to 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.160 be that long before AI is really. 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:45.760 That useful to us? 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:46.280 You know? 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.240 It's funny and one of the things that's because we'll. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.760 Need another narrative if so, I can't talk about it. 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.120 I think, I mean, isn't it interesting because because the 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.200 people and it's one of those stories that's broken containment. 0:11:58.200 --> 0:11:59.599 I was on a flight a few days ago and 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.720 the people next to me we're talking about the AI bubble, 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.040 and I was hearing it everywhere people, you know, and 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.880 one of the things they say is will it be 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:06.959 like the dot com crash? 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:07.160 Right? 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.240 In many respects, it might be. And I think this 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.640 year we're going to see maybe some I p O 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.400 s from Opening Eye Onthropy. They're going to kind of 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.160 almost kick start that talk in a more intense way. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.199 But then when when I think about the dot com crash, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:25.440 the Internet will still revolutionary. So even though there we're 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.440 on it right this moment, so you know that both 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.360 things can be true. We can kind of have we 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.959 need the new narrative, but I also think AI has 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.600 this promise. Now what I what I when I think 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.000 of the dot com bust in particular, is you know, 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.800 it took Amazon years to recover from its crash price. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.040 It took Cisco up until about a month ago to 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.679 come from its crash price. And I think we may 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.200 see some of the same patterns, but in terms of 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.960 how that shapes throughout this year, I mean, your guess 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:53.840 is as good as mine. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.240 That was Bloomberg opinion columnist Dave lee Are Thanks to 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.040 Vini Guinn for joining there as well. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.040 Coming up, The New York Times has the connector of 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.920 New York's powerful Well now she's part of New York 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.600 City Mayor Zoron Mamdani's transition team. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.800 Kathy Wilde, outgoing president and CEO of the Partnership for 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.400 New York City, stops by. You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:14.720 This is Bloomberg. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.600 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.120 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.720 on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.680 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.280 This past Thursday, New Year's Day marked a new political 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.520 chapter in New York City as Zoron Mamdannie was officially 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.680 inaugurated mayor, marking a significant political shift on the start 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.920 of a new governing era for the city. This was 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:47.720 an election the whole country was watching. 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.520 Yeah, and I think it's fair to say the country 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.200 is going to be watching the first few months of 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.199 this mayor in office. Bloomberg's reported about how some particularly 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.680 the wealthy, are concerned about some of the priorities for mayor. 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.960 Mom Donnie on that we caught up with someone NYC's 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.120 billionaire whisper. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:02.920 Yeah, not so sure. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.240 She loves the nickname, but people have put it out there. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:08.400 Air he did. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.280 Hey, we were talking about Kathy Wilde. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.120 It wasn't the first time she's heard no. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.560 Totally that you knew she She's heard it before. Kathy Wilde, 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.760 she is former President CE of the Partnership for New 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.560 York City. That group represents much of the City's corporate leadership. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.280 It's a consortium of more than three hundred big companies, 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.040 including banks, law firms, private equity firms, and real estate developers. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.280 Bloomberg LP, by the way, is a member of the 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.320 Partnership for New York City. Kathy Wilde just left the 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.920 Partnership and is now part of New York City Mayor 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.320 zoron Mumdani's transition team. She spoke with us in mid December. 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.600 Bloomberg New senior reporter Miles Miller also joined us. Why 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.160 did you want to be a part of the transition 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:46.920 team for the Mayor elect of New York City? 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.200 Well, I think to the point that Ken Griffin of 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.320 Citadel just made, and he's one of our members as well, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.080 and is a great corporate citizen of New York and Miami. 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.400 He has he made the point about the concern yarns 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:06.880 about the high expectations that Mayor Elect Mamdani gave to 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.800 his voters, and he, to his credit, brought out one 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.520 hundred and seventy thousand new voters, mostly young people, in 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.120 the primary. The cutoff age for his voter his voter 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.000 support was forty five. So many of us are beyond 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.440 that point and looking around and saying, oh, dear, does 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.360 he have the seasoning to be able to do this? 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.320 And I think that he's got the energy and the intelligence, 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.600 and it's up to all of us who have a 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.800 little more seasoning and to be helpful. And so that's 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.280 why I joined the transition team and was happy to 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.240 do that, and then working on the economic development workforce 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:50.320 activities there, But in general, I think working with him 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:55.000 to capture the enthusiasm and the energy. We came out 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:59.800 of the pandemic very negative and we lost a million jobs, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.840 and then concerns about the cuts from the federal government 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.880 on entitlement programs, whether it's Medicaid and health insurance, that 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.000 there's the fight going on now. This casts a real 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.320 paull over New York City, which is very dependent on 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:16.560 those funds. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.400 So I think that what he's brought. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.680 Is a positive energy and we ought to capitalize on 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.360 that and hopefully he'll be the best marketer this city 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:26.040 has ever had. 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.240 Your role on. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.800 The transition team does it turn into a full time 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.280 job in the Mundani administration. 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.880 I am definitely not at my age looking for a 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:36.680 full time job. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.040 I'm trying to get away from a. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.240 Full time because you're outgoing as the president of the partnership. 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.560 I am outgoing and I do not plan to take 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.680 another job, but I do plan to help the new 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.840 mayor if he wants it. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.400 So beyond the transition period, you would stay on as 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:55.000 an advisor. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.000 Well, I don't know in what capacity. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.160 As I say I'm there, I'm certainly going to help 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.359 Governor Hokeel deal with her challenges. Where I've worked closely 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.440 with her, She's done a great job, and I think 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.480 we're counting on her to continue to manage New York's 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.760 relationship with Washington and the relationship between the state and 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:16.720 the city, which. 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:17.560 Is very important. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.199 Our affordability problems will not get solved by the city alone. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.880 This is going to take federal, state, city cooperation, and 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.560 so I think all of us who are committed to 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.800 New York City in the future, we have to be 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.280 thinking of all three levels of government and how we 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.760 work with the leadership at all levels. 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.200 You brought mom Donnie to meet with business leaders on 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.560 several occasions. I wonder if you can talk about what 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:43.679 his demeanor is in these meetings. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.040 Right I've talked to bilde. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.440 Blasio about how he works a room, Holmum, Donnie works 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.960 a room and really gets the business community to be 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.080 comfortable around him, but also talk about some of these 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.280 policy proposals that business leaders wanted. Answers to, what are 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.679 the things that business leaders set to him? Well, that 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.080 sounds like a lofty thing that won't get done, or hey, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.120 that sounds like something that is much more than we're 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:07.080 willing to back. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.720 Well, there's been quite an evolution since he won the primary, 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:16.240 so in terms of his having a more nuanced position 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.119 on a lot of the policies. You know, during the 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:23.520 primary campaign there were whole slewer candidates and everything was 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.920 one liners and the social media stuff was one liners 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.840 or you know, show and tell. When you get into 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.680 conversation with CEOs, they want to hear data, they want 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.080 to hear facts. And I have watched him evolve and 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:41.800 grow over the last eight months where we had conversations 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.360 last week, one on housing, one on childcare, where he 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.919 was there with a pen and a notebook, taking notes, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:55.600 asking questions and coming back with very substantive responses. So 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.399 he has absorbed a lot and is now digging deep 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:05.640 on these issues that you know, Ken Griffin expressed concern 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.600 about the fact that he made a lot, you know, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.800 raised a lot of expectations, create a lot of idealistic 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.919 notions out housing and childcare and how we can do 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.000 all this for free. I think he's very quickly figuring 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:26.000 out none of this is free. Raising taxes creates real issues. 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.920 You may raise the rates of taxes, but that may 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.960 not result in more revenues if you scare people away, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.200 or if you scare companies away, or as we've seen lately, 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.920 we've seen a real threat to jobs in New York 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.200 for the first time, the first time in my experience 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.240 over fifty years, are seeing a decline in the number 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.560 of jobs in our financial services industry. Scary thing. That's 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.400 forty percent of our state income tax revenues. We don't 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.760 I mean, these are you know, we've got to pay attention, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.919 and I think he gets that. But we've got to 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.280 be at the table discussing these issues and helping figure 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:07.320 out how to employers help solve the childcare problem. 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.919 Kathy, you know, one of the things I think about, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.280 and I remember, you know, being at Milken years ago 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.719 and talking with very wealthy investors who said, yeah, it's 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.000 about time we pay more taxes. So what is the balance? 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.080 And I am curious among those folks that you talk 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.040 to who are very wealthy, and a lot of times 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.400 their wealth is not an income, it's assets and it's 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.800 investment gained. What do they think, though, should be maybe 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.200 more of their contribution. And I know they often contribute 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.440 in philanthropy and so on. I know that, but I'm 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.160 just curious, what is the balance of willing to pay 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.000 more when again, I've had side conversations with folks are 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.640 surprised that they aren't pay more in taxes. 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.720 So what I've found and for somebody who's upper income 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.199 earned income in New York, which is the you know, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:02.000 our biggest tax payers, we're paying fifty five percent of 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.159 our income to the federal, state and city government with 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.200 you all in so we're paying more more than half 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.679 my paycheck goes to the federal government. So it's not 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.720 like we're getting away with something. For the very wealthy 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.040 who are capital gains, et cetera. The big problem there 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.280 is if they move their legal residents out of New 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.520 York City, get we don't. 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:24.880 Share or get taxes. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:29.680 They aren't taxed here on the basis of their global income, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.959 and so we may get their a piece of their paycheck. 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.000 But not their wealth. And that's a big question. It is. 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:43.600 But what I found is over many years, when business 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.560 leaders and the big taxpayers are at the table and 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.400 they see that number one government is doing what they 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:54.600 can to figure out, how do we offer the most efficient, 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:58.760 the most effective services at the lowest cost possible. How 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.280 do we make government more fishient. On the one hand, 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.520 then so then you begin to narrow, So what's the 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.800 delta in terms of what what do we need to 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:12.000 raise revenues for. So for example, when Dick Ravage in 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.480 two thousand and seven, for Governor Patterson led the effort 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.960 to figure out how are we going to pay to 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.639 upgrade our subways which were falling apart, we supported, and 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.440 the business community supported, creating a payroll mobility tax where 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.520 a portion of payrolls of corporations employers who were in 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.560 the metropolitan region would go to that eighty two percent 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.200 of the employees who work for our companies based in 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.639 Manhattan take the public transit to get here. That was 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:45.159 something everybody signed off on. We supported. We supported an 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.160 increase in that tax twice. Same thing with congestion pricing, 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:54.359 we supported congestion pricing. Obviously a user fee where you 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.600 get something reduce congestion more time in. 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.800 Your day, is easier to sell. So it is. 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:06.240 And actually, when Mike Bloomberg was elected mayor right after 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.920 nine to eleven, the city had to raise real estate 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.640 taxes in order to rebuild and recover from the nine 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:15.119 to eleven shock. We supported that eighteen percent tax increase 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:18.040 in real estate taxes. So it's not that we're anti 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.320 all taxes. Is government doing what they can to keep 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.000 costs down, to be responsible in what they're spending. And 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.840 then what is the contribution and how do we make 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.160 it that makes the most sense, gets the most bang 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:31.680 for the buck. 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:33.760 Just very briefly, because you spent such a big part 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.280 of your career working on affordable housing, I'm wondering if 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.640 the mayor is sticking to freezing rent as his solution 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.240 for affordability, because not one person that we have spoken 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:48.960 to over the last few months thinks that not increasing 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:52.040 supply and rather freezing rent is the right way. 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:53.879 To approach the affordability crisis with housing. 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:56.880 Well, the new mayor is very well aware that those 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:00.960 are not mutually exclusive options and that if there's no 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:05.400 economic return, nobody's going to build housing. He's figured that out. 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:11.080 So he has He has said really since pre primary 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.080 that he understood the private sector had an important role 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:16.200 in the supply side, and he was going to work 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.600 on that. So I think that again, his view is 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.440 much more nuanced when he says now when he talks 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:24.840 about freezing the rent, he says, and one thing that'll 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.040 enable us to do that is if we do reduce 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.240 property taxes on rent stabilized regulated buildings. 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.000 So he gets it. He can add and subtract. 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:34.680 So can you come back? 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.480 I said, you said, we had an hour of an 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.600 hour hours worth of question barely scratched the. 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:41.960 Service, but we still appreciate Kathy. Thank you, Good luck, 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.880 Thank luck having Kathy Wilde, president and CEO at going 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:47.919 president and CEO of the Partnership for New York City, 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.080 part of the transition team of the New York City 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:53.600 mayor elect, and of course, our Bloomberg News senior reporter, 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:54.359 Miles Miller. 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.760 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Listen live 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:02.880 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:05.720 Play and the Android Auto. With the Bloomberg Business app. 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.560 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:12.720 flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:15.960 It was billed as just another meme coin, a Trump 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:18.800 branded token based on hype in a political spectacle. 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:20.720 But the rise of the trump Coin tells a much 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.520 bigger story. A glitzy ballroom, anonymous wallets, lightning fast trades, 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:27.159 and then came the crash that caused hundreds of thousands 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.960 of people to lose money, except most notably the Trump 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:31.840 team that launched it. 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:35.000 Writing about it for Bloomberg Business Week, Zeke Fox and 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:39.439 Max Abelson. Zeke is Bloomberg News investigations reporter and author 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:43.200 of Number Go Up. Inside Crypto's Wild Rise and Staggering Fall. 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:46.520 Max Abelson is Bloomberg News Finance reporter. 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:48.800 We just got to start with some basics here before 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:51.120 we get into the shadowy web that spans like cafes 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:55.119 in New York City and Singapore, which you guys travel, 0:25:55.200 --> 0:25:59.080 which you Zeke travel to Singapore. Memecoin been arount for 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.720 more than a decade. Started with the Doggie But what 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:03.120 are they? 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.200 Yeah, So the first one was doge Coin. It was 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:08.840 kind of intended as a joke, like a parody. This 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:11.199 guy he liked crypto and he was like, why are 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.080 people making these dumb cryptocurrencies. I'll make the dumbest one 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:16.040 I can think of, And then it kind of took off. 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:20.240 But in the last couple of years there's been this 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.360 huge boom in meme coins. It's kind of like this 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:26.679 trend where people just pick anything that's in the news, 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:31.520 say a little like six seven, like the joke the 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.040 kids like, they'll slap it on a coin. The coin 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:38.160 transparently doesn't do anything, but people just sort of gamble 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.440 on the idea of it attracting attention and other people 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:43.840 jumping in. They all sort of follow this pattern of 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.920 going up and then crashing, and you're these gamblers are 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:47.919 looking for the next one. 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:52.440 So Max, let's let's go back to January of this year, 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.359 just a few days before the president is inaugurated for 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:56.560 his second term. 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.560 What happens, Well, you know, there was so much going 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:01.199 on that week and that it's easy to forget, but 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:03.399 there was like an actual kind of crypto ball, and 0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:05.639 that might not have been like a real official title, 0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:07.359 but it was certainly this big crypto ball and it 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:08.720 costs a lot of money, and it was like, it 0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:11.480 was like twenty five hundred bucks to get in, and 0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:14.040 we spoke to people who are there. Actually, I think 0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.159 maybe one of my favorite interviews this year was with 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:19.600 George Santos, the disgraced congressman. He was honestly a delight 0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:21.480 to interview. I have to say, he was there. He 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:23.639 talked about how he skipped the line because he was like, 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:27.520 I'm George Santos, Like George Santos doesn't wait onlines, and he. 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:29.160 Tim kind of says that too occasionally. 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.199 You know what Tim Tim would, Yeah, we zeke and 0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:35.800 I wait online. So they go into the Crypto ball 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:38.200 So it's a room full and this is the Melon 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.080 Auditorium in Washington by the Washington Mall. Is if it 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:42.879 is a fancy space and it's a room full of 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.760 of course, you know, crypto people, crypto investors, crypto executives, influencers, 0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:50.040 and phones start going off. At one point I think 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.639 it's just before Snoop Dogg is about to perform, I believe, 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:57.040 and they find out that Donald Trump has launched a 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:59.000 mean coin. And I think one of the first thoughts 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.879 on people's minds was like, this can't be real. And 0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.800 the thing is it was real. And one thing that 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:06.919 I just loved about working with Zeke is that he 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:11.440 explains in our Business Week story sort of the shades 0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:14.640 of realness. On the one hand, it really was true, 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.920 Donald Trump really did launch a meme coin, right as 0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:19.679 he was on the edge of becoming, you know, the 0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:22.600 most important person in the entire universe. But on the 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.919 other hand, it's it's lacking in a certain kind of 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:29.359 realness as we usually think about assets, A meme coin 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:32.800 has a certain kind of like existential nothingness, you know, 0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:35.359 it's it's sort of it's it's vacant by design. It 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:40.440 doesn't give you rights to future profits. It basically represents 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:44.800 nothing but itself. And it's investigators, excuse me, it's investors, 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:48.760 as Zeke and I wrote, are basically investing in sort 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:52.000 of nothing but speculation. It's speculating in speculation itself, as 0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:53.480 I believe this man said. 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.360 And because of that, nobody makes money. Right, So it's 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:58.360 kind of like sarcasm. 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:00.520 I mean, it's kind of like a it's a zero 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:02.560 sum game, right, Like some people are going to get 0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.200 in early and make money. Other people are going to 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:07.720 get in late. They're going to be left holding the bag, 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.280 except that whoever created the coin, their goal is obviously 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:14.880 to get paid, and they're going to suck out a 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.720 lot of like the total amount that's been gambled on 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:18.240 this coin. 0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:20.440 You guys write a little bit about pump and dump 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.320 schemes like Wolf of Wall Street boiler room style in 0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:27.000 the piece, and you draw distinction between what's happening with 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:30.920 meme coins from a regulatory perspective versus what would happen 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:32.920 with a traditional stock penny stock. 0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:34.440 Talk about that a little bit, Zeke. 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:38.240 Yeah, I mean, if you think about what was happening 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:41.200 at Stratton Oakmont, like the boiler room depicted in the 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:43.560 Wolf of Wall Street. You've got all these salesmen who 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.040 are on the phone calling you know, retired dentists and 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:47.640 being like, you got to get in on this hot 0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:51.840 new gold mine stock, and this would drive the stock up. 0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:55.440 And then eventually whoever had like created this promotion would 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:58.640 secretly have holdings of it they dump, the stock would 0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:02.120 go back down, but the sale, the people who bought 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.280 these stocks were had to be tricked. You had to 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.240 convince them like this was a pretty cool gold mine 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:09.080 that should invest in with meme coins. The people who 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:12.040 are gambling on them. Basically know the drill, and they 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:15.680 know that whoever creates the coin is going to want 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:18.320 to dump once it gets going, and that they are 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.520 like seeking out this pump and dump game. 0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:23.360 Then the SEC does not look favorably on the equity, 0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.760 the stock side of this, But what about the meme 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:27.360 coin side of this? 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:30.760 So the meme coins were in a pretty like gray area. 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:32.400 No one really knew what to make of it. There 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:36.120 hadn't regulators, hadn't really taken any action. It'd been weird 0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:39.240 enough that most of the better celebrities had stayed away 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:43.520 before Trump. The most famous was probably Caitlyn Jenner, but. 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:45.680 I forgot about that one. 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:50.120 Three weeks after Trump's inauguration, after he had created his 0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:54.120 own meme coin, the Trump administration's Securities and Exchange Commission 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.640 came out and said, Hey, you know what, these meme coins. 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:01.400 They're fine, not securities, not our business. That wouldn't stop 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:03.920 maybe someone else from regulating them, but no one has 0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:05.120 stepped up at this point. 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.280 So let's talk about the money. This is an administration. 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:10.200 We talk about it being transactional. We talk about some 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:12.920 say grift going on, and so on and so forth. 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:13.920 There's a lot that goes back. 0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:17.440 And forth, but this is made right the president and 0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:21.480 his family some real money, hundreds of millions of dollars. 0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:21.680 Yea. 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:26.600 Yeah, so Trump made about three hundred million from launching 0:31:26.600 --> 0:31:29.880 his meme coin, according to estimates from crypto tracing firms, 0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:33.200 and then that same weekend, Mulania launched her own meme 0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:38.520 coin and likely create collected another forty or fifty million. 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:42.160 I mean, this is like the easiest money they've ever 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:44.160 made for like a couple tweets. 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:48.520 And now those of the as we mentioned, those cryptocurrencies 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:50.920 have plummeted more than ninety percent from their peak. So Max, 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:53.440 let's get into a little bit of the shadowy global 0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:56.800 network that helped the president make these meme coins. Were 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.400 we look at the blockchain as this entity that kind 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.000 of allows us to see who does what, But it 0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:05.480 was kind of a challenge to get to the bottom 0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:07.680 of who actually helped the president. Who are some of 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:09.680 the characters that you and Zeke found. 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:11.960 Yeah, honestly, it would be so much cooler if we 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:13.520 could sit here and look at you and be like, 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:17.440 we honestly did crack this, and there's like no mystery 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.360 left and we can explain it all. The truth is, 0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:22.000 I cannot look you in the eye and say that 0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:24.360 in good faith does. 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:26.120 Not mean you did not meet some people along the way. 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:26.760 We did. 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:28.680 It's all about the friends you make along the way. 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.120 That's why we get to journalism. And you know, I 0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:35.160 have to say for viewers who haven't ready yet, you know, 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.120 my co writer on this story wrote a book called 0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:39.440 Number Go Up that I mean, it's certainly the funniest 0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:43.560 and probably realistically the best book about the crypto industry 0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:47.440 that exists. And so I felt a little bit by comparison, 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:49.200 kind of like a babe in the woods as we 0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:51.880 started this, because I was working with someone who really 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:54.800 really understands how this works. But he was very generous 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:55.880 with me, and we kind of took it a step 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:57.400 by the time, a step at a time. I think 0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:01.440 the first thing we did is to meet someone who 0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:03.240 you'd really want to stop it and talk to you 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.840 if you're trying to understand meme coins, and that is 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.920 one of the creators of something called pump Fun And 0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:11.760 this young man and his name is Alon Colin. 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:13.080 I mean, I'm in my forties. 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.680 I believe Allen was like twenty one when we met 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:21.560 him maybe twenty twenty two. He is part of this 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.520 small group that has launched this marketplace for meme coins 0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:28.160 where if you want, like right now, you could go 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:31.880 and start the Carol coin and you could do it 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:32.840 with how long. 0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:34.400 Would it take a few minutes. 0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:35.280 Like ten seconds. 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:37.520 And it's this. 0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:44.560 Remarkable, slightly gross, certainly immature marketplace because the whole idea 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:46.479 that I think if you were here, he would say 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.240 that the grossness is it's not a bug. It's a 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:52.000 feature that people get to do whatever they want, and 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:57.840 that whatever people find funny, whatever grabs people attention, it 0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:00.800 can be commodified and it can be sold. Now, to 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:04.160 be fair, that is not where the Trump point launched. 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:06.600 So after we sort of understood pump on, then we 0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:08.360 had to go sort of make a slight pivot. 0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:11.399 Yeah, so we got nobody. Last you said, nobody took 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:13.840 responsibility for helping the Trumps. Was just a little weird. 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:18.760 But a clue emerged a few weeks later when another 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:23.320 president launched a meme coin. This was Javier Marlay, the 0:34:23.360 --> 0:34:24.880 president of Argentina. 0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:25.560 Of Chainsaw fame. 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:30.359 Yeah, and it's kind of weird in meme coins everyone, So, 0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:32.160 like I said, everyone knows the drill, but still they 0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:32.760 have their own. 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:33.400 Code of ethics. 0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:37.440 And the Malay coin really set people off because it crashed. 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.160 Instead of waiting like a couple of days to crash, 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.640 it crashed within hours and Malay, who had promoted it 0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:45.799 with a tweet, deleted his tweet, which was just not 0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:50.560 seen as fair play. And after this Malay coin debacle, 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:56.480 this previously unknown crypto bro named Hayden Davis came forward. 0:34:57.440 --> 0:34:59.880 He's twenty eight years old, he'd kind he'd been in 0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:04.160 involved in NFTs, he'd sort of but was not like 0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:07.160 a well known guy. And he said, I am Javier 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.400 Malay's advisor. We were creating this coin for the people 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:14.000 of Argentina. And then he gave a series of uh 0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:18.399 increasingly ill advised interviews in which he talked about how 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:22.800 meme coins are rigged, how they're sort of insider trading 0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:25.400 of a sort within meme coins, and then he said 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:30.240 that he had helped uh Milania Trump with with her coin. 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:32.120 And you know, I. 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.400 Thought to myself, like, could the could this be? Is 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.799 this really? Is this really true? How did and how 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:41.640 did he connect with Milania? And it turned out that 0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:47.759 luckily for us, he had been quite a boastful guy 0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.360 who loved to text like crazy stuff to his friends, 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.759 and we were able to review some messages that he'd 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:58.080 sent to associates where he clearly did know that Milania's 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:03.640 coin was coming, like suggesting this was true, and where 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:06.279 he even hinted that maybe he'd been involved in Trump's coin. 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.560 We got to leave it there, guys, Zeke Max, check 0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:11.920 out the story. It's the Bloomberg A big take. You 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:14.120 can find it at the Bloomberg terminal. We just scratched 0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:14.600 the service. 0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:15.680 We know you want more. 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:16.759 This is Bloomberg. 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:25.399 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch 0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:28.720 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:31.920 Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:34.799 Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:37.560 Let me a hend our second hour of our first 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:41.040 weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week of twenty twenty six. 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:43.800 It's an hour dedicated to something we like to feature 0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.600 from time to time here on Bloomberg Business Week. And 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:49.200 we were talking about the wine and spirits industry, from 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:52.040 market trends to the story behind the label. And yeah, 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:53.720 sometimes we do a little sampling. 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.240 This hour, the perfect wine pairing for your next dinner 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:59.240 party with the CEO of Duckhorn tapping into a mega 0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:03.680 wine experiences in Uruguay and regenerative farming techniques in wine 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.080 making with the CEO of Maison. 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.960 Mirabau, plus the business of bourbon with the retired Kernel 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:13.200 behind Lofted Spirits first up this hour. It's not been 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:15.000 an easy year though for those in the business of 0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:19.760 selling alcohol, thanks to a consumer pullback, changing tastes and trends, 0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:24.080 high costs, supply chain disruptions, and of yes, tariff uncertainty. 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:27.080 What used to sell itself now needs a sharper story 0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:30.320 and an even sharper strategy. Robert Hanson is CEO of 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:33.839 the Duckhorn Portfolio. It's a premium American wine company known 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.320 for high end Napa Valley Coastal California wines. He discussed 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:39.960 his strategy along with a wine tasting with a fun 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:44.520 trio Bloomberg's Alexis, Christopherus, Christina Quino, and Bailey Lipschultz, who 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:46.000 filled in for us while we were. 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:50.600 Out Just for context. So Dughorn Portfolio is the twentieth 0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:53.839 largest wine marketer in the US by volume two point 0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:58.120 eight million cases this year, so not a small place. 0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:00.440 And you know, you know some of their brands, Yards, 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:04.359 Golden Eye, Paradox, Migration. Oh, you're pouring wine for us. 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:07.600 Now what are we what are we having? 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:08.840 Baileies normally in equities. 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:14.399 Yeah, So this is the Decoy Featherweight caps off twenty 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.400 twenty three. Low Caw we were talking about it in 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.160 the green room, so low Caw low alc. Kind of 0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:21.480 catering to the younger generation. 0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.360 Sure, first, thanks for having me, you know, excited to 0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:26.239 be here on your Netflix and. 0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:27.560 Chill day, I guess. 0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:28.520 Yeah. 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:30.560 We're we're going to taste first. 0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:33.800 As we talk, We're going to taste the Decoy Featherweight 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:39.239 Cabernet Sevignon. It's the recent launch, most recent innovation in 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:42.480 our Decoy Featherweight offering, which is the largest and fastest 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:47.640 growing low lower alcohol, lower calorie offering within the wine category. 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:51.160 The cabernet is really unique. It's about nine percent alcohol, 0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:54.160 about eighty calories per serving. That's about a third less 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.520 alcohol than a typical cabernet and about fifty percent of calories. 0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:01.560 It's tough to achieve a great tasting cabernet. Somnil that's 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:03.560 low Alcan locale. So give it a taste and tell 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:04.120 us what you think. 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:08.600 It's delicious and you know what, I don't need to 0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:12.080 necessarily have it with food. It's just like good straight 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:12.719 up on its own. 0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:15.879 Yeah, it's it's addressing. You know, there's a lot that's 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:19.440 been reported about the dislocation of the wine market. You know, 0:39:19.560 --> 0:39:22.000 we're excited about what we've achieved this year. We're excited 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:24.680 about twenty twenty six. Twenty twenty six is the fiftieth 0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:27.840 anniversary of the founding of the company. Dan and Margaret 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:30.480 Duckhorn founded the company fifty years ago on Murlau, which 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:32.840 we're going to taste as well at the different a 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:34.800 different end of the market that when we just tasted 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:37.879 about twenty five dollars a bottle, the Murleau will taste 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:41.160 is one of our high end luxury estate Murlau's. But 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:44.600 we're excited about what's happening. This wine we just tasted 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:48.000 is leaning into one of the trends that's impacting, especially 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:51.239 younger consumers consumption in the category. All younger consumers are 0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:55.080 looking for value. Pricing matters a lot they're looking for. 0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:57.919 They're very conscious about consuming things that are better for them, 0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:01.480 so having a better mint, introduction and innovation in the. 0:40:01.480 --> 0:40:02.440 Category is important. 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:06.479 We're about to celebrate the first year anniversary of taking 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.360 the company private with Duckcorn, with Butterfly Equity our sponsor. 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:13.879 They only invest in food and beverage. They understand craftsmanship. 0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:15.359 You know, if you're going to put it across your lips, 0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.240 it's got a taste yummy. And we've got a strategy 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:22.040 of competing in the best neighborhood, the best street in 0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:23.600 the neighborhood, in the best house on the street. 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:26.239 So that was about a year ago that they came in. 0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:29.000 So and this company has been has been public, has 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:30.960 been taken private a couple of times, a few times. 0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:33.520 What changes have happened? I mean you actually started with 0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:36.840 the company earlier this year February, so, but what changes 0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:39.719 have been made now that this private equity company has 0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:41.080 come in and just sees this past year. 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.760 Yeah, well, look, we for the reasons I just explained, 0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:46.759 we think Butterfly Equity is a great sponsor, a great 0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.080 partner for us. What I would say is one of 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:51.279 the superpowers of the company I respected when I first 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:53.880 got to know it is the agility, the ability to 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:57.120 innovate at the pace of the consumer marketplace, and the 0:40:57.160 --> 0:40:59.520 market is demanding, and consumers expect you to meet them 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:02.360 on their place field, on their terms. That's how Butterfly 0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:07.040 thinks what's changed. I would say the agility is the 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:09.839 pace of the agility of the company has picked up. 0:41:10.120 --> 0:41:13.160 We've made some significant progress in a very short period 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:17.720 of time. If I reflect upon the analogy I just provided, 0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.520 neighborhood street house, we compete in the fifteen and above 0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:24.040 price segment. The market's been dislocated a bit. We can 0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:26.600 talk about that, but that's been driven by below fifteen 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:29.440 and especially below ten, so we compete in the right neighborhood. 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.520 One of the best examples of what's changed, we did 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:36.200 a portfolio construction exercise over the past nine months. 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:37.840 Where we looked at our whole portfolio. 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:41.439 Eleven brands we've concentrated on seven and four are really 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:46.280 high growth core brands because we're winning with fewer things 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:50.040 and focusing on the winners that matter, big clear lanes 0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:54.360 of competition, exceptional lines that compete against the best in 0:41:54.400 --> 0:41:58.880 the category, and we've actually increased our addressable market by 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:01.400 almost two billion dollars from two billion to four billion 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:04.560 in that exercise and then the proofs in the putting 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:07.919 so Best House on the Street. The team, I'm really 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:10.319 proud of them, have grown our market share from ten 0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:14.120 point four percent to eleven point seven percent during our 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.680 whole period. So it's been a busy, busy year. We've 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:20.359 got a lot of air to travel. You'll hear Duck analogies. 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:21.360 We don't talk ground. 0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:22.000 We talk to air. 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:24.840 You'll hear Duck analogies when we talk a lot. But 0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:27.120 we have a lot of air to cover. But we're 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:28.799 excited about what we've accomplished so far. 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:30.560 I just want to ask before I get ready to 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:32.759 pour them or low when you think about kind of 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:34.000 the recovery we have so much. 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:36.880 Dailey likes this part. He likes more this is the best. 0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:39.160 But when you think about kind of the state of 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:42.200 the economy, it does seem like the upper five to 0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:45.399 ten percent of the US consumer is better off than 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:49.400 really the bottom ninety percent. Thinking about higher price wine, 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:51.919 better wine. As you mentioned best house on the best block, 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:54.799 how do you think about attacking that consumer and whether 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:55.839 you're seeing growth from them. 0:42:55.960 --> 0:43:00.360 Yeah, great question, Bayway. We're very conscious of it is 0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:05.240 to remain a premium, fine and luxury still wine competitor. However, 0:43:05.400 --> 0:43:09.480 and I'll give you two examples, specifically on price, We've 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:11.719 talked about the better example, and then I want to 0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:16.600 talk to you about consumer experiences with the focus, especially 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:20.160 for younger consumers, on purchasing power. There's a little nervousness 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:26.000 around the social, political, and kind of economic environment. We're 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:29.239 conscious of that. So two ways we've reacted. One, we 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:33.319 introduced an amazing new brand called green Wing, which is 0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:37.120 a fifteen to twenty dollars a bottle winery brand with 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:40.680 amazing cabernet from Washington and a Pina noir and pinogrigio 0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:44.600 from Willammett Valley and organ that fifteen to twenty dollars 0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.319 bottle of wine can translate into a twelve dollars by 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:49.520 the glass program if you're at a restaurant. A lot 0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:52.000 of younger consumers say they get more value out of 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:55.960 spirits or other categories. This is providing them an entry 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:58.359 point into the wine category, kind of not telling them 0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:01.000 what to drink. That inviting them into our portfolio into 0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:04.439 the wine category based on value. And on the higher 0:44:04.520 --> 0:44:07.400 end of the market, we had our We made a 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:12.800 price adjustment on our Duckcorn vineyards Knap and Valley Cabernet. 0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:15.759 It was it was priced at seventy two dollars. We 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:19.240 took the price down to sixty because it's a larger 0:44:19.239 --> 0:44:23.240 addressable market and frankly even for a fine wine consumer 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:25.879 that can buy wine at that level, recognizing we could 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.600 produce the same or better quality, maintain or really we've 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:32.200 got a structurally advantaged operating model with great margins. We 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:34.719 could maintain our margins and put out a more sharp 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:37.520 price point for them. We're just meeting people on their 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:41.040 terms in this economic environment and growing as a result. 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:43.759 If you heard the pouring behind us and the popcorn 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:47.200 the core popping is because we are having some Duckhorn 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:48.240 portfolio wine. 0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:48.560 Right. 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:51.120 This is what we're about to taste is the twenty 0:44:51.160 --> 0:44:55.640 two Murleau. And remind me, why is this a particularly 0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:56.240 nice Merlow? 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:58.839 This is an exceptional Marlo. Now I'm going to tell 0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:01.279 you I've got a personal bias. I'm a Merleau fan. 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:05.279 Not everyone can remember, but I remember Sideways I was 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.799 gonna make the jew I filmed from twenty years ago 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:10.520 that said you shouldn't drink Brlow completely wrong. 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:12.680 Murrellau, in my opinion, is the best varietal. 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:14.480 Loved that movie. 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:18.280 Love the movie, didn't love what it did. For Merlou 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:22.359 Murlau is the easiest drinking wine. Super great to pair 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:26.160 with lots of different food choices. It's an easy drinking Barrietal. 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:30.120 This wine is my favorite in our entire portfolio for 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.760 two reasons. One, Dan and Margaret Duckhorn, who respected nature, 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:37.840 the craft of wine making and hospitality, introduced this wine 0:45:37.840 --> 0:45:41.480 as their first introduction fifty years ago. And we're celebrating 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:44.240 our fiftieth anniversary next year and feel really good about 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:48.120 the momentum of the company. It's an estate wine. It's 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.600 a blend of ninety two percent me low, seven percent 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.319 cabin one percent Cabernet franc It is a luxury wine, 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:56.040 so it trays for between one hundred and twenty and 0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:58.400 one hundred and fifty dollars a bottle. But it's a 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:01.840 beautiful wine, and I encourage all of your audience. 0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:07.880 It is a great right right here. 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:12.080 Well our for audiences who are just joining us right now. 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.920 We are here in the studio talking line and drinking 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:16.240 wine with our guests. 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:16.560 Here. 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:20.120 Robert Hansen CEO of the Duckcorn portfolio, as well as 0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:24.000 Bluer News equities reporter Bailey Lipshaltz. So, Robert, you know, 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:26.520 I want to touch on what you said earlier, right 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:29.240 about the process of kind of going public, then private 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:33.160 and then back again. And so you know, you mentioned 0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:36.680 agility was one thing that really kind of was sustained 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:39.880 in the company throughout those changes, and you know, talk 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:43.080 to us about how that's serving you now that the 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:46.120 market is changing so rapidly. We have, on the one hand, 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:49.520 gen Z drinkers who just consume less alcohol overall, and 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:52.720 it seems like that's something that is maybe permeating throughout 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:54.760 the broader American public. 0:46:54.840 --> 0:46:55.000 Right. 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.040 I think a Gallup was saying that just fifty four 0:46:57.080 --> 0:46:59.560 percent of Americans in general say they drink alcohol. 0:46:59.560 --> 0:46:59.920 That's a right. 0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:03.000 How is the company thinking about these kind of structural 0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:04.799 changes among consumers? 0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:08.719 Yeah, well, I meant great question. And as I mentioned earlier, 0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:12.400 it's true as reported that the market's been dislocated. That 0:47:12.560 --> 0:47:14.720 being said, we compete in the segment of the market 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:17.919 that has tailwinds fifteen and above, and we're segmented from 0:47:17.960 --> 0:47:20.480 fifteen dollars a bottle up to three hundred dollars a bottle. 0:47:20.520 --> 0:47:22.800 So in still Wine, we are. 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:28.959 The best house on the street, and we're growing because 0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:32.040 we're competing from fifteen to three hundred. We've got a 0:47:32.080 --> 0:47:36.359 segmentation of our portfolio that meets most consumers' needs. More specifically, though, 0:47:36.400 --> 0:47:39.960 you know, a lot's been written about the betterment trend, 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:44.000 about drinking less but better quality. That is the focus 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:46.840 of this portfolio. So you ask the question, what's different. 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.160 We've got our eye on the horizon. We're very much 0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.799 focused on meeting the consumer on their playing field, on 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:56.040 their terms. They want to buy great value, they want 0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:59.160 to buy great quality, they want lower alcohol content in 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:02.520 some cases, want to drink less but better quality. Our 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:06.120 whole portfolio is about that. We encourage our consumers to 0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.960 drink you know, less but better quality, drink responsibly. We're 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:11.279 meeting the consumer on their playing field. 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:11.879 There's kind of. 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:16.680 Three trends that we've addressed, value, betterment, and then the 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:18.600 consumer experience of consuming wine. 0:48:18.680 --> 0:48:19.719 Here's one point I'll make. 0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:23.960 Though wine's been around for six millennia, it's a community 0:48:23.960 --> 0:48:26.120 based product right there, all right. 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:29.880 Bloomberg's Robert Hansen of Duckcorn portfolio. 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:34.520 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Listen live 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.600 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:40.600 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 0:48:40.600 --> 0:48:43.800 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:47.440 New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:49.720 I know you are always ready. 0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:51.000 We're ready, always ready. 0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:53.360 So our Bloomberg Purceeds team out with a last minute 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.000 gift guide for whiskey, wine and spirits lovers, and it 0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:57.920 states something I think we can all agree with, Carol, 0:48:58.080 --> 0:49:01.480 an unexpected bottle of booze is allways welcome around the holidays. 0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:05.080 Yes, indeed, retired, We're expected. 0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:05.680 We're expected. 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:09.359 I didn't expect that from you, retired. Colonel Mark Erin 0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:11.840 is the CEO of Lofted Spirits. It's the parent company 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.400 of Bardstown Bourbon and Green River Distilling Company. It's one 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:17.080 of the largest distillers in the United States, and he 0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:20.080 joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio along 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:21.880 with David Weston, who is, of course the host of 0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:26.640 Wall Street Week and maybe partakes in bourbon. Everyone's great 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:30.120 to have you both here with us. Mark tell us 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:32.160 about kind of your journey. I want to just start there. 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:35.160 Because you served in the US Army over twenty five years. 0:49:35.480 --> 0:49:38.240 You're ultimately Chief of Staff of the US Army Special 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:41.399 Operations Command. How do you go from there? And there's 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:44.000 a lot of stuff in between as well, but how 0:49:44.000 --> 0:49:44.839 do you then get to hear? 0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:49.680 Yeah, so walk and relationships. Bottom line, I've had great 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:53.279 luck throughout my life. I've been a sports enthusiast all 0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:56.560 my life and grew up playing sports. The Army is 0:49:56.640 --> 0:50:00.440 really a sport in itself, a competition and a a 0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:04.080 team building exercise every day, and I spent twenty six 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:06.399 years loved it. Got out of the military and wanted 0:50:06.440 --> 0:50:09.600 to do something different than government contracting, which is what 0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:13.120 most people do. With my skill set, ran into some 0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:17.000 great people and a good friend that David knows well 0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.319 became a mentor and a good friend of me, John Mack, 0:50:20.360 --> 0:50:22.360 who you all will have heard. 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:24.160 Of obviously, head of Marshas Stanley. 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:27.680 John became a great friend and mentored me, and John 0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:30.320 was actually asked to be on the board of margetown 0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:33.640 bourbon company. He had loaned our founder Peter offten money 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:37.200 throughout the years, and John thought I knew something about whiskey. 0:50:37.400 --> 0:50:40.520 I drank whiskey, but didn't know anything about the Spirit's business. 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:43.480 But John asked me to check out the company. I 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:45.920 went and checked it out, became on the board, and 0:50:45.960 --> 0:50:48.560 then ultimately about six and a half years ago, was 0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:51.480 asked to come and run the company. Really a team 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:54.239 of built a team, and that's what it's been about 0:50:54.239 --> 0:50:58.520 for me, just that kind of you know, creating something 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.399 where people are proud to come to work every day 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:01.799 is probably the most important thing for me. 0:51:02.040 --> 0:51:04.240 Well, you spent the first part of your career leading 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:08.200 a lot of people. You led a thirty five one 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:11.040 hundred man task force in Operation Iraqi Freedom. You teamed 0:51:11.040 --> 0:51:14.279 with coalition partners in Iraqis conducting stability operations throughout Iraq. 0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:17.600 That's just like one percent of what you did over 0:51:17.680 --> 0:51:20.399 your career in the military. How do you How does 0:51:20.600 --> 0:51:24.319 leading a company differ from actually leading in the US 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:25.440 Armed Forces? 0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:27.520 Look or how is it? 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:29.680 There's a thing out here in this in the commercial 0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:31.440 world that I've run into called the what's in it 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:31.719 for me? 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:32.200 Factor? 0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:35.279 And that's a big issue, and not saying. 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:36.239 It's wrong, it's it's real. 0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:38.520 People have to worry about their families worry about what 0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:41.560 they're getting paid. That's a that's something that I didn't 0:51:41.600 --> 0:51:43.520 deal with for twenty six years because everybody knew what 0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:46.680 they were getting paid, everybody was on a team, everybody 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:49.800 had a goal in a mission. So fighting through those 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:55.160 things to try to create a company where literally people 0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:58.759 place the importance of their job as something that's that's 0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:01.520 a party that I am. Build an organization that folks 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:03.719 are proud to be a part of and actually want 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:06.279 to see that company succeed. That's the kind of thing 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:08.319 that I came from in the militarym We've I think 0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:10.960 done a pretty good job of doing that. If you 0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:13.479 come visit us at Bortstown or Green River, you'll see 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:15.880 that in our people. We get comments all the time 0:52:16.440 --> 0:52:19.319 about our people and our team, and that's what makes 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:20.400 this place special for me. 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:23.600 Mark typically is being a little honest here because from 0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:26.440 my vantage point, because I saw John Mack persuade you 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:30.480 a fair amount at his house, and what I understood 0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:33.000 is they had a great product, and John Mack believed 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:36.040 it was a great product, but the company had, let's say, 0:52:36.120 --> 0:52:38.839 upside in what he could do with that product. And 0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:40.920 Mark came in as far as I can tell I 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:42.879 want to say, turn it around, really built it into 0:52:42.880 --> 0:52:45.360 something really powerful, which had the potential all along. 0:52:45.440 --> 0:52:46.240 I think Mark. 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:48.760 The company was in a great spot, had an awesome 0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:52.879 growth path. Unfortunately, our founder passed away three months after 0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:55.359 he pugged me in, so we needed to go look 0:52:55.400 --> 0:52:57.680 for a partner who could help us grow. We brought 0:52:57.680 --> 0:52:59.759 in a private equity firm out of Chicago that's been 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:03.800 a fabulous partner to us and truly enabled the growth 0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:06.680 to where we are now the largest custom distiller for 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:10.680 spirits in Kentucky. We've grown two great brands, and that 0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:14.240 business model allows us to do the things that most 0:53:14.320 --> 0:53:17.600 brands cannot do. Young brands can afford right now to 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:20.239 invest the way we're investing behind these two brands. And 0:53:20.239 --> 0:53:22.360 both Bartstown and Green River are two of the fastest 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:24.960 growing brands in the US right now. And it's because 0:53:25.000 --> 0:53:30.440 of this making whiskey for others, copacking on bottling, all 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:32.799 these different assets that we bring to our clients that 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:35.160 enable us to go and invest in these two brands. 0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:37.200 That's what I thought was interesting. And I'm going to 0:53:37.320 --> 0:53:39.000 start doing a little bit of a poor here so 0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:40.879 that you can tell us about some of what we've 0:53:40.880 --> 0:53:43.120 got here, But it is you work with others who 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:45.680 want to start a brand. I mean, it's a crowded space. 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:47.960 So I'm just curious how you think about who you 0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:49.640 want to partner with and how do you do something 0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:50.919 that stands out in the shell. 0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:53.320 So we really have two different entities. 0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:54.360 And what am I pouring here? 0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:59.400 Okay, so you are pouring You're actually pouring the world's 0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:03.839 best bourbon according to New York Spirits Wine and Spirits. 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:06.040 Competition as of this year. 0:54:06.320 --> 0:54:10.040 So that is the top top bourbon in the world. 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:15.400 It's our Green River Weeded bourbon and that's a thirty. 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:16.000 Five dollars bourbon. 0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:18.840 Compete togeinst all these other bourbons in a blind tape. 0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:19.680 They do a bigger port. 0:54:20.040 --> 0:54:21.839 You should do it. You should do a perfect court. 0:54:21.920 --> 0:54:22.919 But that's a really low price. 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:25.520 That is a low price point. 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:27.440 Is a low price that's you know, we're in the 0:54:27.560 --> 0:54:30.960 super premium and ultra premium price points and those are 0:54:31.000 --> 0:54:33.280 the two price points in American whiskey that are growing. 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:36.719 American whiskey is down over the last year, yeah, down 0:54:36.800 --> 0:54:39.840 two to three percent. You know, with all the different 0:54:39.840 --> 0:54:42.919 things that are going on around around spirits and international 0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.760 trade and everything else. So luckily, what we're doing behind 0:54:46.760 --> 0:54:48.360 these two brands is making them grow the way we 0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:48.799 need them to. 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:50.920 And before we all take a step take take us 0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:52.560 back to so that when you work with someone, how 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:54.120 do you figure out who you want to work with? 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:54.439 Right? 0:54:54.520 --> 0:54:57.160 And because it is, there's a lot out there. 0:54:57.640 --> 0:54:59.920 Yeah, you know, look, I'll tell you. 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:02.279 Three years ago, we didn't have much competition and people 0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:04.560 saw the business model, and now there's a lot of competition. 0:55:04.840 --> 0:55:06.680 We used to kind of get just to get choose 0:55:06.880 --> 0:55:07.560 who we wanted. 0:55:07.400 --> 0:55:07.879 To work with. 0:55:08.680 --> 0:55:12.960 Now there's competition out there. So we are truly the 0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:15.440 only ones who are providing grain to glass service, meaning 0:55:15.640 --> 0:55:18.440 we're going to help you design your whiskey, we'll make 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:20.120 it for you, we'll store it for you, and then 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:21.600 we'll get it ready to go to market. With our 0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:24.400 world class bottom facility. We're helping our clients in so 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:29.280 many different ways, you know, whether it be unique financing modes. 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:32.359 You know, that's been probably. 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:34.720 The biggest issue for our industry over the last few years. 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.920 People talk about tariffs, we had financing issues. 0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:39.960 Before we had tariffs, there. 0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:42.520 Was a lot of negative chatter about alcohol and spirits 0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:48.879 in general. You know, young people aren't drinking supposedly. See 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:52.080 the GLP drugs and the impact that those are having. 0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:55.279 All these different issues creating some negative chatter. But what 0:55:55.320 --> 0:55:58.520 we're seeing today is an opportunity where I think savvy 0:55:58.520 --> 0:56:00.600 investors are starting to get in. We're going We're getting 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:05.280 a lot of inbound from family offices and private equity 0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:08.120 who want to create funds to specifically invest in whiskey 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:11.360 because they see the low end of a market and 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:16.600 an opportunity for reasonable rate to return, where four years 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:17.799 ago I would have told you it was kind of 0:56:17.800 --> 0:56:21.560 a crazy rate of return. Yeah, now it's reasonable, and 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:24.319 I think people are seeing that and coming back in well, 0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:25.239 not exactly the same. 0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:27.160 I grew up though my dad made a mean whiskey 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:31.279 sour and you would say Nazadrovia because I'm Slovak, So anyway, Nazdovia. 0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:32.680 But tell us cheers. 0:56:32.800 --> 0:56:36.200 So this is again the number One's the number one 0:56:36.239 --> 0:56:38.560 bourbon in the world, according to New York Spirits Competition 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:43.120 Blind Tasting Amazing. This is a weeded bourbon. So Bourbon 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:49.000 is nineteen sixty four. It is our nation spirit, It's 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:52.719 America's native spirit. And it has to be made in 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.239 the United States and it has to be predominantly corn 0:56:56.320 --> 0:56:58.719 to be bourbon. And then typically you have a flavor grain. 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.200 The flavor grain in this is people say wheat is 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:03.160 sweet and smooth. 0:57:04.000 --> 0:57:05.200 The wheat is really kind of. 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:08.799 Passive compared to rye and allows the sweetness of the 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:09.560 corn to come through. 0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:11.520 So that's kind of what you sense from this as 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:12.839 you sniff. 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:15.000 It and as you taste it now carefully, it's a 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:18.040 it's a good I don't I know David used to 0:57:18.040 --> 0:57:20.200 do the morning show and I don't know his drinking hours. 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:26.640 This is my first bourbon of to day. So anyways, cheers. 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:29.840 So while they're drinking, you've grown in a fair amount. 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:33.000 Where's the sky? How far can you take this? 0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:34.120 And what do you need? 0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:37.640 So two different things. Really we have to uh two 0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:42.880 separate business lines. Our our core business is making whiskey 0:57:42.880 --> 0:57:44.919 for others. Again, that's that's our core. 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:47.400 That's what pays all the bills and allows us to 0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:49.800 invest in these two brands the way we need to. 0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:54.920 We're innovating on our core business. We're and small bottling 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:57.640 lines as people want to downside to different package sizes. 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:01.400 We're helping people were making wrong for the first time. 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.680 For a client who's doing the ready to drink in 0:58:04.720 --> 0:58:08.760 a can. We're bottling Vadkin gin for folks. So we're 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:10.720 innovating on that side to make sure we give our 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:13.680 clients everything we can so that we can continue to 0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:15.000 invest behind these two brands. 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:16.439 Both of these brands are going. 0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:19.240 To be in the top ten of their price point 0:58:19.480 --> 0:58:20.880 by middle of next year. 0:58:20.960 --> 0:58:22.120 So we've got to set a new goal. 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.960 That's been our goal for quite a while, and then 0:58:25.000 --> 0:58:27.760 we'll get into the international market. We're selling in London, 0:58:27.800 --> 0:58:31.640 we're selling in Sydney, and we're selling in Western Canada 0:58:31.720 --> 0:58:32.120 right now. 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:34.480 And you said Green River was about thirty five Bardstown, 0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:34.880 same thing. 0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:38.080 Forty five dollars price point on that Bardstown bottled in Bond. 0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:40.320 That's our you know. 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:44.720 The Bottled in Bond Act was the first really start 0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:48.440 of FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, where you had 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:49.600 you were trying. 0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:51.480 To get people to say what's actually in the product. 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:54.200 So they set the rules behind what it had to 0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:55.840 be and it had to be one hunter proof aged 0:58:55.880 --> 0:58:59.400 four years at one distiller in one season, so you know, 0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:02.360 premitting people from putting tobacco juice for coloring and other 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:03.360 things in it. 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:09.920 So that's a great product. And again Bartstown Bottled and Bond. 0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:13.080 What do you think, David, Well, I'm actually curious on 0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:13.800 the growing part. 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:16.040 Again, is it capital intensive? 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:17.440 Twenty second? 0:59:17.600 --> 0:59:20.720 Is capital intensive? We're committing that's again. 0:59:20.800 --> 0:59:23.120 Wow, We've got this unique business model that allows us 0:59:23.120 --> 0:59:25.600 to invest in these brands where most brands can't. 0:59:25.880 --> 0:59:28.760 That was Mark Irwin's CEO of Lofted Spirits, David Weston, 0:59:28.800 --> 0:59:31.320 host of Bloomberg Wall Street Week, joining us there as well. 0:59:31.360 --> 0:59:33.440 You know, David has always said wait, wait, wait, is 0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:35.000 this like, are you guys having an alcohol? 0:59:35.400 --> 0:59:37.440 Hey, we finally Gotpapy to have We. 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:38.360 Finally got him to join. 0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:39.760 It was really a lot of fun. 0:59:40.120 --> 0:59:40.880 All rights still ahead. 0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:43.440 On Bloomberg Business Week, how one family left the London 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:46.040 suburbs for a small village in France all through the 0:59:46.120 --> 0:59:47.480 love of wine. 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.040 And then a wine experience by way of Little Tuscany 0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:52.320 and Uruguay. This is Bloomberg. 0:59:56.720 --> 1:00:00.520 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:03.840 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern 1:00:03.960 --> 1:00:07.000 Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:10.360 Business app or watch us live on YouTube. 1:00:10.640 --> 1:00:12.920 That's the stuff of fantasies, Carol. 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:13.720 We've talked about this. 1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:16.280 Yeah, you quit your corporate job in London. Okay, you 1:00:16.320 --> 1:00:19.080 move to the south of France with your three kids, 1:00:19.120 --> 1:00:20.680 your wife, you make rose. 1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:22.520 It sounds magical, it does well. 1:00:22.520 --> 1:00:25.480 It wasn't a fantasy for Stephen Kronk, the founder and 1:00:25.680 --> 1:00:29.600 CEO of Maison Mirabo. He and his wife did exactly that. 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:33.520 It was sixteen, sixteen years ago. It was yeah, wow, 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.440 at the height of the global financial crisis. 1:00:36.560 --> 1:00:37.320 Talk about timing. 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:40.480 Steven's with us right now here in the Bloomberg Interactive 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:44.680 Brokers studio, and he brought rose. First of all, it's 1:00:44.720 --> 1:00:46.880 been a little while since we last spoke. 1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:47.840 To here, at least two years. 1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:50.560 Yes, yes, how's business been since then? 1:00:51.000 --> 1:00:54.240 It's well, it's interesting question. It's been up and down. 1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:56.800 I would say, I mean, I think Provence Rose is 1:00:56.840 --> 1:01:00.560 still the benchmark for rose around the world, so we're 1:01:00.600 --> 1:01:02.280 very lucky we've got that. But there's been a lot 1:01:02.280 --> 1:01:04.000 of headwinds, as I'm srure you're aware. 1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:07.000 Yeah it Look, there's the climate change headwind, but there's 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:11.120 also the changing consumer tastes headwinds as well as tariffs exactly, 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:13.720 which is the thing that is the biggest headwind. 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:17.600 They all combine together. This is the perfect storm. So 1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:21.200 the health kick, there's the cannabis movement, there's the no 1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:24.520 and low alcohol movement, there's the zimpic movement because that 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:27.240 suppresses people's desire to have a drink. So it's like 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:29.360 everything and then you load on top of that the tariffs. 1:01:29.400 --> 1:01:30.840 It's like, yeah, what has happened? 1:01:31.080 --> 1:01:33.040 So what does that mean for you guys? Like how 1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:35.560 do you pivot? How do you adjust around that? 1:01:36.080 --> 1:01:37.920 Well, there's a lot of things we can't change. But 1:01:37.960 --> 1:01:40.840 what we try and do is is with the tariffs, 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:42.680 for example, we've tried to swallow as much as we can. 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:45.040 We don't want mirror bou to be much more expensive 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:47.800 in the store, so we've tried to swallow that, which 1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:49.880 is it's hard, but we're keeping our fingers crossed that 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:51.160 maybe this is going to change. 1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:54.320 Remind everybody the price range from the United States, so 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:56.560 you don't want the price to go up in the US. 1:01:56.600 --> 1:02:01.120 So we generally between twenty and thirty, I mean want 1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:02.880 to try and keep below thirty dollars because that's a 1:02:02.920 --> 1:02:03.360 price point. 1:02:03.480 --> 1:02:05.000 So then how does that hit your margins? 1:02:05.280 --> 1:02:07.640 Yeah, it's not great, but you know, I'd rather build 1:02:07.680 --> 1:02:10.080 a brand, and you know, i'd rather people carry on 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:12.440 drinking Mirbo especially you know, we're coming out of Thanksgiving 1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:14.840 and Provence Rose is just so good with with turkey. 1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:17.480 So you know, I'm just trying to hope this goes 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:19.840 away and just carry on pushing my wines here. 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:20.320 Yeah. 1:02:20.440 --> 1:02:22.120 Well, you know, and I've said I wasn't a big 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:24.640 Rose drinker, but I've got to say yours is pretty 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:27.880 pretty magical, and I've really enjoyed it, and we're going 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:30.560 to taste it and know Tim is sniffing it out. 1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:33.520 You're in the United States, talk to us about the 1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:34.880 US market specifically. 1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:39.880 So I've started farming regeneratively for some of my wines, right, 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:44.720 and the regenerative movement seems to be centered many around California. Now, yeah, so, 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:46.720 I mean, I'm selling my wines in forty countries, but 1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:50.640 California is the epicenter of the regenerative movement. The California 1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:53.240 Department of Food and Agriculture has been the first state 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:58.960 to to define the words regenerative agriculture, and meanwhile, we've got, 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.040 you know, the wine regions, so Paso, Robles, Nappers and Oma. 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:04.760 They are the most regenerative wine areas in the world. 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:09.040 So what does that mean for one of county where 1:03:09.080 --> 1:03:12.240 t is from. But what does that mean that you 1:03:12.280 --> 1:03:15.640 would you do more here in the United States? 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:18.400 I'm just trying to sell more wine here. And so 1:03:18.480 --> 1:03:22.000 the retailers say, like air One and Sprouts and Bristol 1:03:22.040 --> 1:03:25.760 Farms and Hagen's, they're really getting behind the regenerative movement 1:03:25.800 --> 1:03:28.080 that they're looking to seek out regenerative. 1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:29.360 Farmer because there's an awareness of it right. 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:31.160 Because they know what it means for farmers, they know 1:03:31.160 --> 1:03:32.040 what it means for people to. 1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:35.160 Not everybody knows what regenerative farming means and especially how 1:03:35.200 --> 1:03:39.120 that is applied to farming the grapes that go into wine, 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:41.320 that go into rose. So for for people who don't 1:03:41.360 --> 1:03:43.720 know what it is, explain regenerative farming in the context 1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:44.840 of Vina culture. 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:48.680 So regenerative, as the name suggested, is about regenerating soil, fertility, 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:52.840 and regenerating nature in simple terms, So you know, it's 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:55.160 the if you think about it, what was organic farming 1:03:55.200 --> 1:04:00.120 called before the First World War? Farming right, and then 1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:02.200 there was a huge amount of pressure here. Everyone's still 1:04:02.280 --> 1:04:05.680 worried about industrial farming, so the heavy tillage and in 1:04:05.720 --> 1:04:08.640 particular heavy use of chemicals. So there's been a move 1:04:10.240 --> 1:04:12.320 certainly since the First World War and the Second World 1:04:12.320 --> 1:04:14.520 War as well. We've seen a lot of nitrogen being 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:16.200 used in farms and a lot of heavy tillage, and 1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:18.600 a lot of chemicals pesticide and so on, and that's 1:04:18.640 --> 1:04:21.960 just been killing our soils. This is a catastrophe. You know, 1:04:22.000 --> 1:04:23.600 we were worried about famine at the end of the 1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:26.320 Second World War, so rightfully, we were worried about feeding 1:04:26.320 --> 1:04:29.360 our population. But we haven't been measuring food in the 1:04:29.400 --> 1:04:32.160 right value. It've been measured by calories rather than nutrient density. 1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:35.200 So I didn't mean to interrupt, but it was just interesting. 1:04:35.240 --> 1:04:37.920 We just came off a discussion of talking about the 1:04:37.960 --> 1:04:41.040 cost of meat and just what's going on in that world. 1:04:41.040 --> 1:04:44.040 But I do think about, like is our soil globally, 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:48.000 how tortured is it or how bad is it because 1:04:48.000 --> 1:04:49.040 of the industrial farming. 1:04:49.560 --> 1:04:51.040 A lot of it, most of it, I would say, 1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:54.920 is on life support. It's really it's catastrophic. So when 1:04:54.920 --> 1:04:57.040 I I was gonna say, when I drive out from 1:04:57.160 --> 1:04:59.560 Na to Pazzerobuls, which is one of the most regenerative 1:04:59.560 --> 1:05:02.280 regions in in wine up the I five and you 1:05:02.360 --> 1:05:04.960 see thousands of acres of fruit trees and nut trees 1:05:05.200 --> 1:05:07.320 that are on life support. It's like the moon's surface, 1:05:07.760 --> 1:05:10.440 and so it's they're kept life by these excen inputs 1:05:10.680 --> 1:05:12.240 and what you end up with a product, but they're 1:05:12.240 --> 1:05:15.360 not very tasty and they're not very nutritionally dense. So 1:05:15.400 --> 1:05:17.920 we need to actually start restoring soil health globally, and 1:05:18.000 --> 1:05:19.360 regenerative is a way of doing that. 1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:21.600 So you can do that in terms of all that soil, 1:05:21.640 --> 1:05:24.200 how long does it take the process of getting it back. 1:05:24.640 --> 1:05:27.240 It can happen quite quickly, and that's one reason why 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:29.240 we so I run a nonprofit as well called the 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:33.880 Regenerative Viticulture Foundation. So viticulture is agriculture for vines, and 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:37.320 we're launching these initiatives called one block challenges. So we 1:05:37.360 --> 1:05:39.040 did one in Paso, we've done one, we're doing one 1:05:39.040 --> 1:05:44.440 in Napo Opus one in fact a great winery and winery, 1:05:45.080 --> 1:05:46.920 so we're doing one there on the eighteenth of November, 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:49.520 and we're challenging the growers in Napa and as we 1:05:49.520 --> 1:05:53.240 did in Pazo, to just transition one block of their 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:56.160 vineyard to regen for a year and then come back 1:05:56.200 --> 1:05:59.360 and see the difference. It's incredible how generous mother nature 1:05:59.400 --> 1:05:59.960 is coming back. 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:02.760 That's Stephen Kraut, the owner of Meissan Mirabeau. 1:06:03.160 --> 1:06:03.360 Hey. 1:06:03.400 --> 1:06:05.800 Before we go, how about another story of a family 1:06:05.840 --> 1:06:09.400 owned winery, this time in the luscious region of South America. 1:06:09.440 --> 1:06:12.760 Since nineteen ninety nine, Bodega Garzone has been making wine 1:06:12.800 --> 1:06:16.560 and developing a mega wine experience in Uruguay. Christian Wiley 1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:19.560 is Bodega Garzon's managing director. He stopped by to tell 1:06:19.640 --> 1:06:21.480 us all about it. You know, when we think about 1:06:21.600 --> 1:06:23.280 so called New World wines, I think a lot of 1:06:23.320 --> 1:06:27.720 people often think of in South America, maybe Argentina or Chile. 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:31.520 Uruguay not really on the map as a wine destination 1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:33.280 as much as other areas. 1:06:33.360 --> 1:06:34.040 Why as the world. 1:06:34.240 --> 1:06:35.960 I mean, it's not on the map because they've been 1:06:36.040 --> 1:06:38.080 drinking all their wine they've been making for the last 1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:43.040 three three centuries. But then Darson comes into play, and 1:06:43.080 --> 1:06:46.880 this is an incredible investment of Don Alejandro Rulgeroni. 1:06:47.320 --> 1:06:49.760 It's two hundred and fifty million dollars capex. 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:54.360 It is the largest investor investment ever. 1:06:54.240 --> 1:06:56.600 In the industry of wine. And this is right now 1:06:56.840 --> 1:06:59.360 in the region or in the world, in the world world. Wow, 1:06:59.600 --> 1:06:59.880 this is. 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:02.440 Right next to the beach to the Uruguayan rivie Era. 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:05.560 So you have josseig Nacio, which is like the centrope. 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:07.920 Yeah, if you're watching us on YouTube Bloomberg Originals, you 1:07:07.920 --> 1:07:09.720 can see the stunning photos right now. 1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:12.080 And that was showing kind of the investment that you 1:07:12.120 --> 1:07:12.920 guys have been making. 1:07:13.320 --> 1:07:15.680 So it's and it's it's done in a in a 1:07:15.840 --> 1:07:19.760 very if you like, forward thinking way of the most. 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:21.680 Committed to sustainability. 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.120 We were the first winery in the world to be 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:27.720 one hundred percent LEADS certified, and we work, you know. 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:28.920 To express the place. 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:32.720 It's a new taroire that is, you know, the vision 1:07:32.760 --> 1:07:35.280 is for Albert Antonini, who's like the top wine maker 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:39.560 from from Tuscany. And then one of our pillars is 1:07:39.600 --> 1:07:43.520 the experiences, so we have Francis Malman is our chef, 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:46.640 so you experience these beautiful wines with an incredible view 1:07:47.240 --> 1:07:49.800 right next to the ocean in a place that it's 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:51.360 like the centerpe of South America. 1:07:51.560 --> 1:07:53.400 You don't spend two hundred and fifty million dollars on 1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:56.040 capex unless there's growth going on. Tell us about the 1:07:56.080 --> 1:08:01.720 business and in terms of topline growth, but it also 1:08:01.760 --> 1:08:06.080 sounds like it's also experiential that you guys have incorporated. 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:07.960 So give us you know, we're Bloomberg. We love all 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:09.560 the numbers, So give us an idea in terms of 1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:10.680 the growth that you guys have seen. 1:08:11.000 --> 1:08:14.040 Well, we've basically gone from a place that didn't grow 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:17.839 vines to a vineyard that has more than a thousand 1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:22.160 little parcels, little blocks. We've gone from zero to sixty markets. 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:24.960 We're selling all over the world. It's become the main 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:28.320 brand in Uruguay, but it's also the leader in the States, 1:08:28.320 --> 1:08:33.479 to Brazil, to Japan, China, UK and it's it's growing 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:35.360 very fast normally. 1:08:35.479 --> 1:08:39.320 And what's fast is it high teens? Is it above that? 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:42.200 Many years? 1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:47.799 Wow, doubling the business many years in a row, including Covid, 1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:50.719 and as you said, all the different cycles right now. 1:08:50.760 --> 1:08:53.320 We've yesterday we toasted to our first year with our 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:56.800 new partners in the US with a wine bow, and 1:08:56.840 --> 1:08:59.400 again we did really well in a very tough year. 1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:01.320 But you. 1:09:02.920 --> 1:09:07.360 Have a level of investment that it's really projected very 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:08.240 very long term. 1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:12.439 We have projects for hotels, We have a real estate 1:09:12.479 --> 1:09:13.040 on the beach. 1:09:13.640 --> 1:09:18.479 Mister Voolgeroni has an incredible a golf course designed by 1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:22.000 Phil Michelson and Acha Caa that it's a PGA tour 1:09:22.040 --> 1:09:25.320 preferred golf course. We make our own extra virgin olive oil. 1:09:25.439 --> 1:09:26.760 So we talked about there are some. 1:09:27.240 --> 1:09:30.599 Universe what is the biggest revenue driver. Is it the winer, 1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:33.439 is it the real estate? Ask if it's even the 1:09:33.479 --> 1:09:34.040 olive oil. 1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:37.519 Yeah, the first one was the olive oil, extra virgin 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:40.080 olive oil, and it's one like the best extra virgin 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:42.439 olive oil in the world. A couple of times. The 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:46.120 winery is the wines. It was driving the revenue. And 1:09:46.200 --> 1:09:49.599 it's not just setting wine as a product, it's also 1:09:49.600 --> 1:09:54.040 the experiences. So we have fifty thousand visitors a year 1:09:54.560 --> 1:09:56.120 and this is in the middle of nowhere, as you 1:09:56.240 --> 1:10:00.360 just mentioned other why Yeah, and it's all very high 1:10:00.400 --> 1:10:05.439 income and networth people. It goes from twenty thousand people 1:10:05.479 --> 1:10:07.840 living there in Punta de les De and Garson to 1:10:08.000 --> 1:10:10.760 two million tourists around New Years. It's a lot and 1:10:10.840 --> 1:10:14.200 a lot of them are celebrities like Clooney or Winneth 1:10:14.200 --> 1:10:16.400 Paltrow or Messi or it's. 1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:18.800 Christ say that's kind of our crew. 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:21.000 Care well, I'm here to invite you. You have to 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:21.720 corroborate this. 1:10:21.760 --> 1:10:24.280 Story, right, we only have unfortunately about a minute and 1:10:24.320 --> 1:10:26.559 a half or so left. You did bring in some 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:29.440 bottles of wine and tell us about. 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:29.840 What you brought. 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:35.520 I don't want to mispronounced blasto, tant Alberino, Alvardino. 1:10:35.560 --> 1:10:38.640 It will start with the white wine. Yeah, it's this 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:42.240 is Alberdino. We are the main grower of Albardino in 1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:45.720 the Americas. It's the white great variety that like the 1:10:45.840 --> 1:10:49.240 Queen of Spain. We have the same kind of granite 1:10:49.240 --> 1:10:52.760 and Atlantic Ocean influence, similar to Galicia. And this is 1:10:52.960 --> 1:10:56.800 actually our best selling wine in the US, perfect for 1:10:56.880 --> 1:10:59.800 summer or the end of the of the spring of 1:10:59.840 --> 1:11:02.200 your top one hundred wine spectator. 1:11:02.920 --> 1:11:05.200 So an awesome valley. This is like a twenty two 1:11:05.280 --> 1:11:06.120 dollars retail. 1:11:06.240 --> 1:11:06.719 That's great. 1:11:06.760 --> 1:11:09.120 So there's a beautiful opportunity there. 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:12.320 Tell us about the other the reds, which I am 1:11:12.360 --> 1:11:13.839 a red kind of gal. 1:11:13.960 --> 1:11:19.120 Okay, if that's so, this is for you. Uruguay is 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:23.160 the country of Tanat, like Maulbek would be Argentina. Yeah, 1:11:23.200 --> 1:11:26.360 this is a great variety from southwest France. It's known 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:29.840 to be rustic and really tannic. We have kind of 1:11:29.960 --> 1:11:34.320 tamed that so it's very fresh and vibrant. And it's 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:37.760 also been top one hundred Wine Spectator, so we have 1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:43.160 insane accolades. Actually, well there, our son is is one 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.519 the new World Winery of the year. That's among another 1:11:46.640 --> 1:11:47.879 like ten thousand producers. 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:49.960 I mean those things matter because it really gets people, 1:11:50.000 --> 1:11:52.479 whether it comes up in a surge or people you know, 1:11:52.640 --> 1:11:55.200 gets noticed. I just got about twenty thirty seconds for 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:56.639 Pilaster tell us about this one. 1:11:56.720 --> 1:11:59.720 So this is our this is our grand one our 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:04.599 but astors. Actually the soil is the meteorized granite. It 1:12:04.640 --> 1:12:08.040 gives mineralities, so the wines are quite ethereal. We have 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:10.800 a lot of rainfall, so we have very nice natural 1:12:10.840 --> 1:12:12.200 Asiniti makes your mouth water. 1:12:12.600 --> 1:12:16.160 That was Christian Wiley, Bodega, Garzon's managing director. And be 1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:18.400 sure to check out Ellen McCoy's story on the Bloomberg 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:20.439 and at Bloomberg dot com on how wine will change 1:12:20.439 --> 1:12:23.280 in twenty twenty six due to everything from climate impacts 1:12:23.280 --> 1:12:25.040 to gen Z's interest in wine bars. 1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:27.200 And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business 1:12:27.200 --> 1:12:29.639 Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you for joining us today 1:12:29.680 --> 1:12:32.519 and always, as you have throughout twenty twenty five, We're 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:34.040 looking forward to more this year. 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:35.960 I'm Tim Stenebek. Happy New Year. 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:38.839 Everyone, and I'm Carol Masser. Have a good and safe weekend, 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:42.679 Peace and prosperity, health and happiness. In twenty twenty six, 1:12:42.760 --> 1:12:45.040 we so look forward to sharing the new year with you. 1:12:45.920 --> 1:12:51.280 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 1:12:51.400 --> 1:12:55.120 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:59.160 afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:03.439 the iHeartRadio tune in, and the Bloomberg Business App. You 1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:06.439 can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and 1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:08.479 always on the Bloomberg terminal