1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,400 Ana Huang: Welcome back to she Pivots. This is Ana Huang. 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where women share 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:30,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Picture this. It's the 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: late twenty teens, and somewhere inside a geopolitical consulting firm, 6 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: there's a woman in press relations doing very stable work 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you can speak openly to your parents about over 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: dinner and every morning before that job even starts, she's 9 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: up writing romance novels under a name nobody in her 10 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: real life knows. That woman is today's guest, Ana Huang. 11 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: She's a number one New York Times bestselling author. Her 12 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: romance books have sold more than twenty five million copies 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: and been translated into thirty four languages. Her Twisted series 14 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: pulled in over two billion views on book Talk and 15 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: now it's headed to Netflix. And she got here through 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: a childhood writing assignment that was meant to help her 17 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: improve her English. And at two am moment in a 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: tiny New York apartment where she asks herself, is this 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: what I want? We're going all the way back to 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: little Ana, growing up a first generation American child to 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: Chinese immigrants, and we go all the way up to 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: finding her passion for writing, building a dedicated following in 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: the romance genre, and her new book King of Gluttney 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: that was just released this April. This is Ana Huang 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:46,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: and this is how she pivots. What is your name 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:47,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: and what do you do? 27 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,480 Ana Huang: My name is Ana Huang and I am a contemporary romance author. 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: Incredible, We're going to go all the way back to 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: little Ana. Tell us about growing up. Tell us about 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:57,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: your family. 31 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Ana Huang: I was born in New York, but I grew up 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,600 Ana Huang: In Miami. Chinese immigrant family. And I think I really 33 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,320 Ana Huang: started loving reading and writing when I was small. When 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,639 Ana Huang: I was in kindergarten, I had to take English as 35 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,880 Ana Huang: second language classes, which I didn't know because I was 36 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,800 Ana Huang: the only Chinese kid in my class and so I 37 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,720 Ana Huang: was the only one in my ESL class. And I 38 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,639 Ana Huang: was just like, Oh, this guy just like comes every 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,320 Ana Huang: week and I get to chat with him in English 40 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,680 Ana Huang: about everything. And I had no idea it was to 41 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Ana Huang: like help me improve my language skills. And my mom 42 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,639 Ana Huang: at the same time she was like, hey, like, why 43 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,040 Ana Huang: don't you write me a different story every day in English? 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Ana Huang: And in my mind, I was like, Oh, my mom 45 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Ana Huang: loves my stories. I'm gonna write her story every day. 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,320 Ana Huang: And that was sort of how I actually got into 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,960 Ana Huang: the whole loving books thing. And she really nourished that. 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,040 Ana Huang: She took me to the library every weekend. It was 49 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,520 Ana Huang: so funny because I remember I was eight years old 50 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,720 Ana Huang: and I told her. I was like, oh, Mom, like, 51 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,639 Ana Huang: I think I really want to be an author. And 52 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,000 Ana Huang: she looked at me and she was like, hmmm, I 53 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,040 Ana Huang: don't know. She's like, I love that as a hobby, 54 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,840 Ana Huang: but as a job, I think you need something more 55 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,360 Ana Huang: like financially stable. So for the longest time, I just 56 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,720 Ana Huang: did it for fun. Yeah, it was like my creative outlet. 57 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: Just to back up for a second, how did your 58 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: family end up in a community where you were the 59 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: only Chinese family or just student? 60 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,800 Ana Huang: Yeah, so Miami has a very large Latin community, not 61 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,359 Ana Huang: as many Asians in the school district that I happened 62 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,600 Ana Huang: to be in. I just happened to be one of 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,600 Ana Huang: the very few Asian students there, which was fine, you know, 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,320 Ana Huang: I learned to adapt, but it also meant that my 65 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,520 Ana Huang: family had to be very conscious about keeping me in 66 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,160 Ana Huang: touch with my culture. At home, they only spoke to 67 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,359 Ana Huang: me in Chinese and they didn't speak to me in English. 68 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Ana Huang: And even now sometimes when I meet their friends, they're like, wow, 69 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,160 Ana Huang: they're like, your daughter speaks Chinese so well, like like 70 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,480 Ana Huang: my like my children also grow up in America and 71 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,920 Ana Huang: they like barely understand it. But that was something that 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Ana Huang: was really important to them. 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: So that was a really conscious choice. Like what were 74 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: some of the other ways that your family kept you 75 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: grounded in the Chinese heritage. 76 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Ana Huang: I mean, they really kept to their traditions. I do 77 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,120 Ana Huang: think especially as over time went on, they did become 78 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Ana Huang: like a little bit more westernized, you know, they adopted 79 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,040 Ana Huang: a bit more, they kind of melded Asian and Western traditions. 80 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,080 Ana Huang: But for us, it was always you know, like the 81 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,280 Ana Huang: foods that we ate, the traditions that we had every 82 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Ana Huang: Sunday we would go to dim sum at home. We 83 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Ana Huang: practiced a lot of things I think are very important 84 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,480 Ana Huang: in Chinese culture, just like the way that we treat 85 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,640 Ana Huang: our elder sort of like all of the TV shows 86 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,880 Ana Huang: that we watched were all of these dramas that were 87 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,880 Ana Huang: from Hong Kong, you know that they installed specifically so 88 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,719 Ana Huang: that they can watch Hong Kong dramas in the US, 89 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,720 Ana Huang: and so I grew up in that sort of environment, 90 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,400 Ana Huang: and it was really interesting to me because I feel 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,560 Ana Huang: like when I talked to a lot of other people 92 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,040 Ana Huang: that also come from different cultural backgrounds, it's almost like 93 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,960 Ana Huang: a switch. Like when I am at school with my friends, 94 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,039 Ana Huang: I feel very American, and I am American because I 95 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,040 Ana Huang: grew up here, But then when I went home, I 96 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,680 Ana Huang: kind of feel like almost a different person, just because 97 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,719 Ana Huang: the way that I interact with them is so different 98 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,040 Ana Huang: than how I would interact with my non Asian friends. 99 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: You brought up the idea to your mom that you 100 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:56,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: might think that you might want to be an author 101 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: when you were eight. What were some other things that 102 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: you thought you might want to be when you grew. 103 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,320 Ana Huang: Okay, I will tell you this much. I was very 104 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,120 Ana Huang: influenced by the media that I consumed, and so when 105 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,360 Ana Huang: I watched the Double Wars product, I was like, I'm 106 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,160 Ana Huang: going to be a magazine editor, Miranda Priestley, that's going 107 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Ana Huang: to be me. And then it was this like science 108 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,000 Ana Huang: fiction show called mun X. It was sort of like 109 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Ana Huang: a live action X Men almost that I was obsessed 110 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,360 Ana Huang: with when I was in middle school, and I looked 111 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:21,280 Ana Huang: at it and I was like, I'm going to be 112 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,320 Ana Huang: a geneticist. That was completely not realistic because I'm not 113 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,119 Ana Huang: that great a science, and so I switched back and forth. 114 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,000 Ana Huang: But I have always been really drawn to things in 115 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,880 Ana Huang: the arts and culture, you know, Like I loved interior design. 116 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,200 Ana Huang: I loved fashion, Like the backlog of Vogue and Allure 117 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,720 Ana Huang: magazines that I had starting from when I was like twelve. 118 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,839 Ana Huang: My mom was like, Ana, you got to throw some 119 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,920 Ana Huang: of these away, like you're not reading this old Vogue 120 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,919 Ana Huang: from like two thousand, and I'm like, how do you 121 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,200 Ana Huang: know that? I remember one day. Yeah, I was like, 122 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,480 Ana Huang: maybe one day I need to go back and reference 123 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,200 Ana Huang: this article from like May two thousand. You don't know. 124 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Ana Huang: I ended up in college. Actually I settled on international 125 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,839 Ana Huang: relations instead. 126 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:08,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: The very clear line from Miranda Priestley to geneticist. 127 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:10,240 Ana Huang: To a natural pipeline, you know. But no, I decided 128 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,720 Ana Huang: to do international relations because I really loved travel. I 129 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,760 Ana Huang: was probably the only girl in my middle school class 130 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,440 Ana Huang: that insisted my mom subscribe me to Conde Nast Traveler and 131 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,800 Ana Huang: Travel and Leisure. That was pretty precocious, and I loved it. 132 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,880 Ana Huang: I loved reading the story, seeing the world, Like I 133 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,920 Ana Huang: hadn't traveled much at the time, but it was something 134 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,200 Ana Huang: that always just really fascinated me. And so when I 135 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,320 Ana Huang: went to college and was really thinking, like, Okay, what 136 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,520 Ana Huang: is something I can do that has a very solid 137 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Ana Huang: foundation in the sense that my family would be like, Okay, 138 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,520 Ana Huang: this is something that is like more financially stable. Plus 139 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Ana Huang: it's something that I personally would be interested in. And 140 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,840 Ana Huang: I think international relations. Yes, it's travel, but I also 141 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,799 Ana Huang: loved the idea of like connecting with people of different 142 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,440 Ana Huang: cultures and having that through line, and so that was 143 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,800 Ana Huang: what I did for a long time. 144 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, how much did your parents approval matter to you? 145 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: Like did you have to like keep going back and 146 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: checking when you took jobs? Like how much did that 147 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: still play in? It? 148 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,479 Ana Huang: Did matter for sure? I mean I think every kid 149 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,680 Ana Huang: wants their parents to be proud of them, but especially 150 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,160 Ana Huang: I think in my culture it was a pretty important thing. 151 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,000 Ana Huang: And I think I felt maybe a stillin pressure because 152 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,320 Ana Huang: I was the first person in my family to go 153 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,560 Ana Huang: to college and I felt like, you know, they moved 154 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,920 Ana Huang: to the US, and they sacrificed so much for me 155 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Ana Huang: to have this education and all of the experiences that 156 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,000 Ana Huang: I had, and you know, to send me off to college. 157 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,000 Ana Huang: I don't want to go into a field where if 158 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,360 Ana Huang: they feel like they've wasted like all this time and 159 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,840 Ana Huang: money to send me to something that they're not proud of. 160 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,880 Ana Huang: But for me, I didn't necessarily have to check with 161 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,320 Ana Huang: them on jobs. It was more like, okay, Like in 162 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,400 Ana Huang: my mind, I was already self censoring myself. I already 163 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,080 Ana Huang: knew and then once I decided on something, I just 164 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,440 Ana Huang: had to sell it to them in a way that 165 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,640 Ana Huang: I knew they would be more open to the storyteller. 166 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: From the beginning exactly. 167 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,840 Ana Huang: I was like, well, I was like, mom, international relations, 168 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Ana Huang: the federal government job is very stable. And then she's like, okay, okay, 169 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,560 Ana Huang: She's like so one day secretary of State, and I 170 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Ana Huang: was like, sure. 171 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, we'll keep it in the range of possibilities, not 172 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: zero percent. So what were like the actual jobs that 173 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:09,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: you did in. 174 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,120 Ana Huang: Yeah, well, okay, so it was a lot. So I 175 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,080 Ana Huang: actually I didn't go straight into international relations because after college, 176 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,360 Ana Huang: I wanted to go to grad school first, and so 177 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,520 Ana Huang: I wanted a little bit of a gap year in 178 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,600 Ana Huang: between undergrad and grad school. So I actually spent a 179 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,560 Ana Huang: year teaching second grade in DC, and it was more 180 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,320 Ana Huang: of like a national service thing, like I did a 181 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,880 Ana Huang: lot of education based work, like for volunteer work in college. 182 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,480 Ana Huang: So that was just for a year, and then after 183 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,680 Ana Huang: that I worked for the Singapore Embassy in DC for 184 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,960 Ana Huang: a little bit, sort of in their cultural departments. It 185 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Ana Huang: was a lot of admin stuff I did, like a 186 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,160 Ana Huang: lot of the passports, a lot of the consort of stuff. 187 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,480 Ana Huang: I also helped the Social secretary put on a lot 188 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Ana Huang: of the diplomatic events and all of that, which was 189 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,199 Ana Huang: really fun for me. And then after I was there 190 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,360 Ana Huang: for a little bit, I went to grad school at 191 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,120 Ana Huang: Georgetown where I got my master's in international politics. And 192 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,960 Ana Huang: then after I graduated from there, I moved to New 193 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,319 Ana Huang: York and I actually ended up working in the press 194 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,600 Ana Huang: communications department of a geopolitical consulting company. What I really 195 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,880 Ana Huang: wanted to do. I wanted to be in the Foreign service, 196 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Ana Huang: but I decided to switch to the private sector after 197 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:16,439 Ana Huang: the twenty sixteen election. 198 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: And then you know, Ana's dreamed to become an author 199 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: got filed away under someday and she went looking for 200 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: something her family can be proud of. She ended up 201 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: in international relations, a master's from Georgetown, a consulting firm 202 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: in New York. The whole time, though she's still writing, 203 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: she just kept it a secret. You were writing the 204 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: whole time under a side name and sharing your work 205 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: on Whatpad. Yeah, under a username, not telling your family. 206 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,040 Ana Huang: No, that was oh my god. This was before AO three. Really. 207 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,400 Ana Huang: That was like in the two thousand Swatpad was like 208 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,720 Ana Huang: the place to be and that was teenage me and 209 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Ana Huang: it was such a formative experience for me actually, because 210 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,680 Ana Huang: for the longest time I always told myself, I was like, 211 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,800 Ana Huang: I never want to write for money, Like I know, 212 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,600 Ana Huang: I told my parents I watched me an author. But 213 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,760 Ana Huang: then I was like, I don't know, Like I kind 214 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,360 Ana Huang: of love the act of just writing for myself. It 215 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,640 Ana Huang: was therapy for me. It was a creative outlet, and 216 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,400 Ana Huang: I was afraid that if it became my job that 217 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,520 Ana Huang: I wouldn't love it anymore, and so it became my thing. 218 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,720 Ana Huang: But then I discovered what Pad. I was what like 219 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,319 Ana Huang: sixteen maybe. When I found it, I was like, all 220 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Ana Huang: of these stories are so interesting. I can just write 221 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,120 Ana Huang: whatever I want. And I decided to upload one story 222 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,959 Ana Huang: just to get feedback, and it actually ended up doing 223 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,520 Ana Huang: really well. Like I had some stories go viral on there, 224 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,440 Ana Huang: but for me, it was still for fun, you know, 225 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,800 Ana Huang: like I never thought like, oh, I'm gonna make this 226 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Ana Huang: into her career until much later, much later. But I 227 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,720 Ana Huang: think it was very formative for me because it really 228 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,559 Ana Huang: taught me how to write in a way that I 229 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,719 Ana Huang: think will keep people coming back from more because it's 230 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,400 Ana Huang: kind of more of a serial up, like you upload 231 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,440 Ana Huang: one chapter at a time so they can't be really 232 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,000 Ana Huang: boring or else people get bored, and then they'll also comment, 233 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,439 Ana Huang: and you know, you have that interaction with your readers, 234 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,840 Ana Huang: and I think that really informed the way that I 235 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:01,920 Ana Huang: interact with my viewers. 236 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Now, okay, so when did you start telling people in 237 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: your lives that you were writing. 238 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,240 Ana Huang: You mean as a professional writer or no. 239 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: No, even like Wattpad or I was like, when did 240 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: you start telling people in your lives but you kept writing? 241 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,640 Ana Huang: Yeah? So in my personal life, I never told them 242 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,000 Ana Huang: about Wattpad that was my little secret like you and my 243 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Ana Huang: parents did it. Now, I just did it for fun, 244 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,679 Ana Huang: like I had online friends, but people in my real 245 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,600 Ana Huang: life did not know. I think maybe I first started 246 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,120 Ana Huang: telling people in grad school because I did end publishing 247 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,760 Ana Huang: and now it's been unpublished, but what are the stories 248 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,360 Ana Huang: I put on whatpat I published it for a very 249 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,840 Ana Huang: short time because I was like, oh, well, I'm in 250 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,760 Ana Huang: grad school, I can't work full time. I need some 251 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,960 Ana Huang: extra income, and so that's what I did. I just 252 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,200 Ana Huang: I was like, well, I write your roote the story, 253 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,000 Ana Huang: so I might as well just publish it. And it 254 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,040 Ana Huang: actually did help me. It did pretty well for something 255 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,360 Ana Huang: that I had no clue what I was doing at 256 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:46,880 Ana Huang: the time. So I told a couple of people. I 257 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,920 Ana Huang: never told them what the title of the book was 258 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,240 Ana Huang: or what I wrote it under. And like I said, 259 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,160 Ana Huang: it's since been unpublished because I wrote that when I 260 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,920 Ana Huang: was a teenager, and looking back, I'm like, this is 261 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,080 Ana Huang: not like the best work that I could have done. 262 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: What does it mean to be published, like when you 263 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:59,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: say you published it? 264 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,640 Ana Huang: So for that it was just self published that book. 265 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,000 Ana Huang: It was you know, you can go on Amazon, you 266 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,520 Ana Huang: can go on KDP, and you can just like self 267 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,720 Ana Huang: publish a book and then people can find it. So 268 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,679 Ana Huang: that was a very low key event, and then I 269 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,360 Ana Huang: unpublished it years later when I was like, oh, this 270 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,280 Ana Huang: could be better. I didn't actually tell people that I 271 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,240 Ana Huang: was seriously considering writing until after the pandemic. I think 272 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,880 Ana Huang: for the longest time. There was actually a long stretch 273 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,960 Ana Huang: where I couldn't read or write for fun in my twenties, 274 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,400 Ana Huang: just because I had grad school. Like, I was so 275 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,640 Ana Huang: busy with work. I had all of this reading that 276 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,000 Ana Huang: I needed to do for school, and so I dropped 277 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,679 Ana Huang: out of it for a long time. But then when 278 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,040 Ana Huang: the pandemic came, I was a home I had nothing 279 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,600 Ana Huang: else to do, so I was like, Okay, time for 280 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,440 Ana Huang: me to get back into my hobby. And that was 281 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,840 Ana Huang: when I really rediscovered my love for books and for writing. 282 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,400 Ana Huang: I published in twenty twenty my debut adult romance, and 283 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,600 Ana Huang: then my breakout novel came in twenty twenty one, and 284 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,120 Ana Huang: it's kind of been off to the races, I guess. 285 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: The opportunity to really get into writing again and let 286 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: her taste and style develop. She finally shared her identity 287 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,439 Emily Tisch Sussman: with her family and friends, shattering her double life as 288 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: she doubled down on her passion. In a minute, we'll 289 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: ask Ana what it was like to go all in 290 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: on writing, why she chose the romance genre, telling her 291 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: parents she was quitting her job, and why her mom 292 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: is explicitly not allowed to read Ana's books be right back. 293 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: Once you started writing again, did you go back to 294 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: like the same genres you had been writing? Did you 295 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: try different genres? Like how did you decide what you 296 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: were going to write and public? 297 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,640 Ana Huang: So I have always been a romance lover, even from 298 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,320 Ana Huang: when I was young, maybe a little too young, But 299 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,080 Ana Huang: I think the only difference is that when I was younger, 300 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,920 Ana Huang: I was writing a lot of fly A obviously, because 301 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,440 Ana Huang: I was in the Ya mange, like I was writing 302 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,559 Ana Huang: about people on high school. I was writing about teenagers. 303 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Ana Huang: They were not spicy at all. They were just sort 304 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,800 Ana Huang: of like cute, little high school stories. And by the 305 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,520 Ana Huang: time I got back to writing in the Pandemic, I 306 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,080 Ana Huang: was obviously much older. I was reading kind of more adult, 307 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,880 Ana Huang: mature books, and so that was where you saw the line. 308 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,319 Ana Huang: It's like everything I had written before that was very 309 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,960 Ana Huang: YA and then starting in twenty twenty, it started to 310 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,280 Ana Huang: get gradually more mature in adult and like spicier in 311 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,640 Ana Huang: a way. And that's really the only difference. Like I've 312 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Ana Huang: never really tried writing outside of the romance genre. I 313 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,440 Ana Huang: might in the future, but that's still my first love. 314 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you remember when you took up the pen or 315 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: the keyboard. Yeah, and you thought, okay, am I rusty? 316 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,000 Ana Huang: Oh yeah, for sure. And honestly sometimes it still happens, 317 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,480 Ana Huang: like every time I start a new book, I'm like, 318 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,560 Ana Huang: have I forgotten how to write a book? Like I 319 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,000 Ana Huang: know I've done this before in my lives. That's so hard. 320 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,240 Ana Huang: I think it actually is a muscle, Like I think 321 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,360 Ana Huang: writing is a muscle, and you can train yourself to 322 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Ana Huang: be better and faster at it. But I remember, like 323 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,360 Ana Huang: in twenty twenty, I was writing and I was sort 324 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,440 Ana Huang: of like, oh my god, like I don't actually know 325 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,880 Ana Huang: where I'm going, but this is fun. And I will 326 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,920 Ana Huang: say that was way back then before I learned like 327 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,840 Ana Huang: all of these courses you can take and podcasts you 328 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,360 Ana Huang: can take, and all of these things that you can 329 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,160 Ana Huang: learn about writing, craft and marketing. So there's something to 330 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,560 Ana Huang: be said about not knowing what you don't know. So 331 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Ana Huang: for me, it was just like, Okay, I'm going to 332 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,840 Ana Huang: sit here and I'm just going to tell the story 333 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,880 Ana Huang: how I feel it needs to be told. And it 334 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,120 Ana Huang: was actually a lot easier back then because there were 335 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,000 Ana Huang: fewer eyes on me, Like there are practically no eyes 336 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,080 Ana Huang: on me, So I had a lot of freedom to 337 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,880 Ana Huang: do what I wanted. Now it's a little different. 338 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: You say that you know you were kind of like 339 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: pulling from the age of experience that you were, like 340 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: from yade to adult. How much were you pulling from 341 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: your own experiences then and how much do you now? 342 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,000 Ana Huang: I think definitely my earlier books were much more heavily 343 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,960 Ana Huang: based on my experiences, Like not totally, but my debut 344 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,080 Ana Huang: series it's about a group of friends that meet during 345 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,600 Ana Huang: study of broad in Shanghai, and I studied broad in Shanghai, 346 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,800 Ana Huang: so obviously there's a lot of correlation there, and obviously 347 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,720 Ana Huang: it's been dramatized for fiction, but a lot of it 348 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,560 Ana Huang: was experiences that I had when I was traveling, and 349 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,760 Ana Huang: even now, in a lot of my books, there are 350 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,920 Ana Huang: little bits and pieces of things that I experience in 351 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Ana Huang: real life, or glimpses of people that I know in 352 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,400 Ana Huang: real life that have been changed in some way, but 353 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,480 Ana Huang: they still inform my writing. And I know there's this 354 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,640 Ana Huang: saying that they're like, write what you know, and I 355 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,400 Ana Huang: do write what I know, But at the same time, 356 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Ana Huang: I'm like, you have to expand past that a little bit, 357 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Ana Huang: because if you only write what you know, then that's 358 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,200 Ana Huang: pretty limiting sometimes, I feel. 359 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: So, at what point did you say, I'm going to 360 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: do it under my own name, which first of all 361 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: was different for you. And when am I going to 362 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: start identifying myself as an author? 363 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,440 Ana Huang: I think that and a wrong name. I kind of 364 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,920 Ana Huang: just went for it, you know, like I was like, Okay, well, 365 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,360 Ana Huang: obviously I can't publish a quote unquote serious book under 366 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,720 Ana Huang: I don't know, like some screen name that I put 367 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,520 Ana Huang: when I was like a teenager, right, so I had 368 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,480 Ana Huang: to pick something, and that was what I stuck with. 369 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,040 Ana Huang: And then as an author, it actually took me a 370 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,720 Ana Huang: while because it felt really weird to say like, I'm 371 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Ana Huang: an author. Especially when I started. I was doing both 372 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,840 Ana Huang: my day job and writing at the same time, right, 373 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,920 Ana Huang: so it was not my identity. I would be like, oh, 374 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,760 Ana Huang: it's just something I do for fun, and that's how 375 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,280 Ana Huang: I described it for the longest time. And obviously now 376 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,040 Ana Huang: like I do tell people like I'm an author because 377 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,720 Ana Huang: this is what this is what actually what I do. 378 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,320 Ana Huang: But it took a couple of years for my mind 379 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,399 Ana Huang: to really make that shift and being like, oh, like 380 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,480 Ana Huang: I am actually like an author, like this is not 381 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,119 Ana Huang: just a hobby or something that I'm like doing on 382 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,440 Ana Huang: the side or whatever, like this is a real thing. 383 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: So where were you in that when your book blew up? Like, 384 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: were you still working at your international policy job? Oh? 385 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Ana Huang: Yeah, I was. I was still in my day jobs. 386 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,520 Ana Huang: I would wake up early every morning and maybe have 387 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,800 Ana Huang: like an hour or two in the morning where I 388 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,600 Ana Huang: would write, and then I'd come home and I would write. 389 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,120 Ana Huang: And no one at my job knew really until I quit, 390 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,399 Ana Huang: and they asked, you know, like well, where are you going, 391 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,879 Ana Huang: like what are you doing now? And I was like oh, 392 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,159 Ana Huang: because none of them really read in this genre or 393 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:44,800 Ana Huang: really understand. I was sort of like, oh, you know, 394 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,199 Ana Huang: like I'm going to be a writer or like, you know, 395 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,040 Ana Huang: I write fiction. I didn't tell them what my name was. 396 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,280 Ana Huang: Some of them were little like, oh, they seemed a 397 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,840 Ana Huang: little concerned. I remember one of them, They're like, are 398 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,840 Ana Huang: you going to be able to pay your rent? And 399 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,520 Ana Huang: I'm like, think, I'll be fine. 400 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: , So I'm nervous to hear about your conversation with 401 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: your mom. How did you tell your mom? 402 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,880 Ana Huang: Okay? See, I was smart about that because I waited 403 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,520 Ana Huang: a very long time until I achieved like a certain 404 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,719 Ana Huang: level of success and then I went to her and 405 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,920 Ana Huang: I was like, so much. I'm actually quitting my job 406 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,800 Ana Huang: and I'm becoming an author. She was like, are you sure, 407 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,159 Ana Huang: But I was like, I actually make more writing than 408 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,080 Ana Huang: I do at my day job, and I know I 409 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,600 Ana Huang: can make even more than that if I have the 410 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,439 Ana Huang: time to devote fully to this career, you know, And 411 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,639 Ana Huang: it was it was a conversation, you know. I think 412 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,960 Ana Huang: in the beginning she was still you know how mothers are, like, 413 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,440 Ana Huang: no matter how old you are or how much you've done, 414 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,760 Ana Huang: like they'll always be your mom, And so she was 415 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Ana Huang: a little concerned. But I think over time she saw 416 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,040 Ana Huang: the success that I've seen and how much I enjoyed 417 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,040 Ana Huang: the job, and I think I'm I got to the 418 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,640 Ana Huang: point where I was old enough that she was like, Okay, 419 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,400 Ana Huang: I think you actually know what you're doing, Like this 420 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,359 Ana Huang: isn't some young flight of fancy, Like you have a 421 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,080 Ana Huang: good head on your shoulders and I trust you. And 422 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,520 Ana Huang: now she's like thrilled. She's like, yeah, my daughter was 423 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,600 Ana Huang: like didn't author, Yeah. 424 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do your parents read your books? 425 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,640 Ana Huang: Oh? No, not allowed? Not allowed. Actually at my Twisted Love, 426 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,840 Ana Huang: like the dedication, it was like dedicated to my mom. 427 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,680 Ana Huang: And I was like, mom, please like close this book 428 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,239 Ana Huang: right now, like you're not allowed to read it. 429 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: This is as far as you are allowed exactly. 430 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,480 Ana Huang: Oh my god, that would be so uncomfortable. I'm comfortable. 431 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,080 Ana Huang: My books are pretty spicy. Yeah so, but no, but 432 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,080 Ana Huang: she does buy all of them, but she she doesn't 433 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,120 Ana Huang: read them, at least she told me she hasn't read them. 434 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:21,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: So 435 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: exactly, she told you exactly, she's like passing around dollar friends. 436 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,800 Ana Huang: Oh god, no, oh my god. 437 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: I love this. Ana did something almost no other author 438 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: was doing at the time. She went all in on 439 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: a brand new app called TikTok Okay. So you started 440 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: to self publish in twenty nineteen, and then you went 441 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: all in on TikTok before most people understood book talk 442 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: at all. How did you find it? How did it 443 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,479 Emily Tisch Sussman: align for you? Like you really blew up with the genre? 444 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,439 Ana Huang: Yes, I did. So that was sort of where my 445 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,520 Ana Huang: background in marketing and communications really came in. I have 446 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,760 Ana Huang: a lot of sn so while I was doing my 447 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,359 Ana Huang: day job, and this was before lockdown, A was also 448 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,480 Ana Huang: really interested in travel blogging and Instagram and photography. So 449 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,159 Ana Huang: I did that just for fun and as part of that, 450 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,720 Ana Huang: I had to really stay on top of social media, 451 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,719 Ana Huang: like back then, like Instagram was the biggest thing, right 452 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,359 Ana Huang: it was Instagram and Pinterest and blogs, and so I 453 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,439 Ana Huang: was already really enmeshed in that sort of creator world. 454 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,800 Ana Huang: And I remember starting in like twenty nineteen, but really 455 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,200 Ana Huang: like twenty twenty, I started to see more people talking 456 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Ana Huang: about TikTok. I mean, it's nowhere near what it is today, 457 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,080 Ana Huang: but I was part of all of these author groups 458 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,159 Ana Huang: and want authors. She's like, I'm seeing so much traction 459 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,040 Ana Huang: on TikTok. And this was before people even knew what 460 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,520 Ana Huang: it was, but they were like, TikTok, really, what is 461 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,960 Ana Huang: that a new platform? I don't want to learn a 462 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,320 Ana Huang: new platform. And for me, I had a little resistance 463 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,440 Ana Huang: to it too, because I didn't want to be on video. 464 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,160 Ana Huang: At the time, I was still anonymous and that people 465 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,040 Ana Huang: have never seen my face, and I was like, I 466 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,800 Ana Huang: don't want to show my face, Like I don't want 467 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,359 Ana Huang: to be on video. I'm very comfortable with the Instagram 468 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,399 Ana Huang: model of like creative photography, and like I knew that 469 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840 Ana Huang: world and I liked it, but I was like, you 470 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,479 Ana Huang: know what, like let me create a TikTok account just 471 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,359 Ana Huang: to see right, And so for the longest time I 472 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,000 Ana Huang: created account and I was just sort of watching it. 473 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,439 Ana Huang: I wasn't really doing anything. But then I started to 474 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,920 Ana Huang: slowly like dip my toe into the community. And this 475 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,120 Ana Huang: was way back in the day. I mean twenty twenty. 476 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,679 Ana Huang: I could count the number of Romance Book accounts on 477 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,720 Ana Huang: like one hand. Back then, it was all like ya, fantasy, 478 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,960 Ana Huang: like that was the big thing. But it was a 479 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,320 Ana Huang: really great community. I started to get more and more 480 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,639 Ana Huang: comfortable being on camera. I learned the way that people 481 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,119 Ana Huang: spoke on their sort of what the community rules are, 482 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,840 Ana Huang: and I developed a really good community. And when I 483 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,719 Ana Huang: decided to write Twisted Love, which is my breakout book, 484 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Ana Huang: I remember I first realized that TikTok could really drive 485 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,480 Ana Huang: that marketing and sales is when I put the pre 486 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,080 Ana Huang: order for Twisted Love up and then I made a 487 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,920 Ana Huang: TikTok about it, like a ten second TikTok, and then 488 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,159 Ana Huang: overnight I got like one hundred preorders, which for me 489 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,320 Ana Huang: at the time was like a lot. Like that was 490 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:53,720 Ana Huang: a lot of pre orders for me, and I was like, 491 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,080 Ana Huang: oh my god. All I did was make a video 492 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,800 Ana Huang: that took me like five minutes to make, and that 493 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,280 Ana Huang: was when I really just to like go all in. 494 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: And what did that mean, Like what did marketing through 495 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:04,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: TikTok look like? 496 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,919 Ana Huang: So I think the thing about marketing through TikTok for 497 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,520 Ana Huang: me is I never wanted to be like, oh, chere's 498 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,760 Ana Huang: my book, you should buy it. You know, like that's 499 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,479 Ana Huang: not what works on the platform. It has to be 500 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,560 Ana Huang: something a little bit more organic. So for me, it 501 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,919 Ana Huang: was a lot of things. It was like behind the scenes, 502 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,399 Ana Huang: like back in the day, I would ask people I 503 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,960 Ana Huang: was trying to choose, like the cover models for my book, 504 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,960 Ana Huang: and then I would make videos. I'd be like, oh, like, 505 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,040 Ana Huang: which cover model do you think would be best for 506 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,280 Ana Huang: the book? I talk about my writing process, I talk 507 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,040 Ana Huang: about things that are not necessarily about my books but 508 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,840 Ana Huang: are relevant to the community. It would be memes, so 509 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,399 Ana Huang: like basically everything book is related. And yes, like I 510 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Ana Huang: did sell for some of them, but not always. It 511 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,920 Ana Huang: was more about just being a part of the community 512 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,080 Ana Huang: and being in conversation with people. So like by the 513 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,240 Ana Huang: time that the book did come out, I had a 514 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,280 Ana Huang: group of people that were there to support me in 515 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,640 Ana Huang: the way that I supported them. And also I did 516 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Ana Huang: send out like a lot of early copies to book 517 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,800 Ana Huang: talkers at the time, which I think was really helpful. 518 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: You've described self publishing as running a small business, yes, 519 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you had a leg of on because of your 520 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,479 Emily Tisch Sussman: marketing experience. So how much did the former career end 521 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: up fueling the pivot into being an author? Quite a bit? 522 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,480 Ana Huang: Actually, I think I am a little different from a 523 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,040 Ana Huang: lot of authors and that I really enjoy marketing because 524 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,600 Ana Huang: of my background. But I think, you know, when people 525 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,280 Ana Huang: say I want to be an author, they think, okay, 526 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,480 Ana Huang: like all you have to do is write, And that's 527 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,320 Ana Huang: not true, right, Like, especially when you're a self published author, 528 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,720 Ana Huang: you have to do everything. You have to do the 529 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,720 Ana Huang: back end, the admin, you have to do, the marketing, 530 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,760 Ana Huang: you have to do the publishing, all of that. And 531 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,679 Ana Huang: I think a lot of people don't know that. But 532 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,399 Ana Huang: because of my background, like I have a lot of 533 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,199 Ana Huang: experience in a lot of those fields and I actually 534 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,520 Ana Huang: do enjoy it, And so for me, it was a 535 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,600 Ana Huang: very natural pivot. I was like, I can take all 536 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,400 Ana Huang: of these things that I learned on my old job 537 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,120 Ana Huang: and sort of my old hobbies and just apply them 538 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,880 Ana Huang: to this new field. I had a lot of fun, 539 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,200 Ana Huang: to be. 540 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: Honest, Suddenly Ana wasn't writing for a few hundred people, 541 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: she was writing for millions. And when big publishers came knocking, 542 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: she did something most first time authors would never dare 543 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: to do. She said, no, well hear why she turned 544 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:26,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: them down. Just after the break you did self published? 545 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Can you talk about what that decision was like? And 546 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: also what does it literally mean to have self published 547 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: a book? 548 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,760 Ana Huang: So basically the main types is self publishing and then 549 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,320 Ana Huang: the traditional publishing that most people know is like you 550 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,160 Ana Huang: sign with the publisher like Simon and Schuster, Penguin, Random House, 551 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,719 Ana Huang: or HarperCollins, and they will handle the entire process right 552 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,800 Ana Huang: like they'll pay you in advance and then they'll take 553 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,000 Ana Huang: care of everything like the production, the bookstore, distribution, all 554 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,560 Ana Huang: of that. Self publishing is literally like you do it 555 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,440 Ana Huang: all on your own. A lot of people how they 556 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,320 Ana Huang: do it. Like I said, Amazon is the biggest marketplace 557 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,240 Ana Huang: for I think indie authors. Obviously there are other platforms, 558 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,240 Ana Huang: but that's really where a lot of the readers are. 559 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,560 Ana Huang: And so when you're done with your book, you can 560 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Ana Huang: literally upload it to Amazon and they'll be live. And 561 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,520 Ana Huang: obviously it's up to you to drive people to the 562 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,120 Ana Huang: page to tell me the book. But self publishing it's 563 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,440 Ana Huang: like you get all of the creative control, you get 564 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,840 Ana Huang: all of the royalties, you know. For me, I actually 565 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,280 Ana Huang: never thought about doing traditional publishing because I really wanted 566 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,919 Ana Huang: creative control. I was like, I don't want people telling 567 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,719 Ana Huang: me what I can and cannot write, Like I want 568 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,040 Ana Huang: to do things the way that I want to do them. 569 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,359 Ana Huang: I looked up all the guides online on how to 570 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,679 Ana Huang: do it. I listened to all the podcasts. I'm a 571 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,639 Ana Huang: big learner, like I love learning things. 572 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:36,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm sure they came knocking. 573 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,280 Ana Huang: They did, and it's funny because I will say they 574 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,679 Ana Huang: came in. I mean, now it is very common for 575 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,680 Ana Huang: publishers to pick up a previously self published author. It's 576 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,320 Ana Huang: almost become like a model in a way. But back 577 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,439 Ana Huang: then in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, almost unheard of, 578 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,280 Ana Huang: Like it was pretty Verbonan. It was sort of like, oh, 579 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,720 Ana Huang: like if yourself published a book, you know, like you can't. 580 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: What you're like, real? 581 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,679 Ana Huang: Oh yeah, exactly. But I remember I got an agent, 582 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,680 Ana Huang: and my agent came to me and it was actually 583 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,000 Ana Huang: two separate offers. I had one offer for the UK 584 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,399 Ana Huang: and Commonwealth, and then I had one for North America, 585 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,920 Ana Huang: like US and Canada in the UK one. I was like, okay, 586 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,159 Ana Huang: I would love more international distribution, and that was a 587 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Ana Huang: pretty easy yes. North America, I was like, ugh, I 588 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,480 Ana Huang: don't know. I actually said no when they first offered 589 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,480 Ana Huang: because I was like, I may honestly like I make 590 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,280 Ana Huang: so much now printing my own books. I was like, 591 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,280 Ana Huang: they can never give me an advance that will match 592 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,879 Ana Huang: what I'm making now, And how do I know that 593 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,439 Ana Huang: they're going to buy this book and they're not going 594 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,879 Ana Huang: to do anything with it, so it's just going to 595 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Ana Huang: sit on shelves, right, which was a real concern that 596 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,400 Ana Huang: I had. So I said no. And then they came 597 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,560 Ana Huang: back maybe two months later and they said, okay, if 598 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,879 Ana Huang: you signed with us, Barnes and Noble really wants to 599 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600 Ana Huang: stop more of your books. But they can't now because 600 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,760 Ana Huang: I'm not traditionally published, so it would be so much 601 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,920 Ana Huang: more expensive for them to buy books for me. They're like, 602 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,359 Ana Huang: if you sign with us, we can guarantee that Barnes 603 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,560 Ana Huang: and Noble will buy X amount of books of your 604 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,880 Ana Huang: books and stop them in the store, right, And that's 605 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,000 Ana Huang: really the one thing that's self publishers don't have as 606 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,200 Ana Huang: much as traditional publishers. Is that bookstore distribution. It's really 607 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,560 Ana Huang: hard to get white bookstore distribution as an indie, and 608 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,840 Ana Huang: so I discussed it with my agent and finally I 609 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,399 Ana Huang: was like, Okay, let's try this, and I ended up 610 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,160 Ana Huang: working really well. 611 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: You now have more than twenty five million copies sold, yeah, 612 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Crazy Twisted is headed to Netflix, yes, and you have 613 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: a reader base that has a lot of passionate opinions. 614 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:22,840 Ana Huang: Yeah. 615 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: So how has the scale of this change your relationship 616 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: to the writing? 617 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,240 Ana Huang: Oh Man, Yeah, it's it's been kind of wild, and honestly, 618 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,280 Ana Huang: it's something that I had to learn how to deal 619 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,359 Ana Huang: with over the years. People always ask me, They're like, 620 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,280 Ana Huang: what's the hardest book that you ever had to write? 621 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,760 Ana Huang: And I was like, the book after my breakout, Twisted 622 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,600 Ana Huang: Love was easy for me because, like I said, at 623 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,240 Ana Huang: the time, no one was like paying attention. So I 624 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,120 Ana Huang: was like, it doesn't really matter, like I can write 625 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,960 Ana Huang: whatever I want. And then it blew up and trying 626 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,600 Ana Huang: to write that second book was so difficult for me 627 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,800 Ana Huang: because now I had all of these voices, you know, 628 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,159 Ana Huang: like people making theories, and then I was like, what 629 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,960 Ana Huang: if they don't like this second book, what if it's 630 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,080 Ana Huang: like a one hit wonder, Like what if it flops? 631 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,200 Ana Huang: I don't know. So I had like so much pressure 632 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,800 Ana Huang: to write that second book. I like couldn't write it 633 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,399 Ana Huang: for like a month. Obviously it's gotten better over time, 634 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,119 Ana Huang: but I also had to learn how to really tune 635 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Ana Huang: out the noise. Like I'm not as online as much 636 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,760 Ana Huang: as I used to be, just because there's like so 637 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,320 Ana Huang: many opinions and I can, like the minute I go online, 638 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,919 Ana Huang: I can be like, I'm just going to scroll for 639 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,600 Ana Huang: ten minutes, and I end up being there on like 640 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Ana Huang: three hours, and it's not great for my writing, I 641 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,359 Ana Huang: can tell you that much. So I had to really 642 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,600 Ana Huang: put in systems to make sure that I'm insulated from 643 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,640 Ana Huang: the noise. And obviously I do want to know how 644 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,439 Ana Huang: my readers are responding to books and kind of what 645 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,160 Ana Huang: they want. But I think at the end of the day, 646 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880 Ana Huang: as an author, it's my responsibility to kind of write 647 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,440 Ana Huang: the story that I want to write in the way 648 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,960 Ana Huang: that I see it because everyone will have opinions, right, Like, 649 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,920 Ana Huang: you can't please everyone, It's literally impossible. So I just 650 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Ana Huang: have to stay true to myself at my vision. 651 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, that could apply in many contexts, by the way, 652 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: but everyone has an opinion. 653 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,400 Ana Huang: Exactly everyone, and sometimes I have multiple O pity and 654 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,480 Ana Huang: I'm like, that's great. 655 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: But you know exactly, but you have to trust yourself exactly. 656 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: I know what direction I'm heading exactly. You've talked about 657 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: why you love. Romance is a genre, yes, the guaranteed 658 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: happy endings, and there's a big cultural movement behind romance 659 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: right now. Do you think we're in the next wave, 660 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: Like is it a blip or is it like here 661 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: to stay? 662 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,560 Ana Huang: I mean, romance has always been a very strong and 663 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Ana Huang: a very high stelling genre. I do think over the 664 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,480 Ana Huang: past few years because of multiple things, right, it could 665 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120 Ana Huang: be TikTok, it could be the pandemic when everyone just 666 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,880 Ana Huang: wanted sort of like escape and something happier. That has 667 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,560 Ana Huang: really come together to make it boom in a way 668 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,200 Ana Huang: that maybe it hasn't since the early twenty tons when 669 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,600 Ana Huang: fifty Shades of Great came out. I do think that 670 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,840 Ana Huang: it has staying power. I mean, it's lasted for decades 671 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,520 Ana Huang: and for me, there is always room in the market 672 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,640 Ana Huang: for stories about joy that center around woman and their pleasure, 673 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,680 Ana Huang: and it's just something that I really love about the 674 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,480 Ana Huang: genre that I think a lot of other people do too. 675 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: You've also been vocal about representation of Asian American characters. 676 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,400 Ana Huang: Yeah. So when I was growing up, I didn't see 677 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,120 Ana Huang: a lot of people in media that looked like me. 678 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,040 Ana Huang: We had like Lucy lu we had you know, I 679 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,800 Ana Huang: loved the Babysitters Club. I loved Claudia from Babysaters Club, 680 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,600 Ana Huang: And at the time, I didn't actually think about it, 681 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,240 Ana Huang: like I didn't question like why she was my favorite. 682 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,040 Ana Huang: I was just like, oh, like, I don't know, She's 683 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Ana Huang: just my favorite. Like I relate, and obviously, like as 684 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,400 Ana Huang: a grown up, I can see hindsight why I would 685 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,520 Ana Huang: relate so much more to them. But I think when 686 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,080 Ana Huang: I started writing, I really wanted to write the stories 687 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,600 Ana Huang: I always wanted to see when I was growing up, 688 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,360 Ana Huang: And it was also important to me that they are 689 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,960 Ana Huang: integrated in a way that felt natural in the sense 690 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,480 Ana Huang: that for example, like me being Chinese American, I don't 691 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,520 Ana Huang: think that's the most interesting thing about me, as I 692 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,200 Ana Huang: hope like for these characters, like, yes, like their culture 693 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,120 Ana Huang: informs the way that they see certain things, in how 694 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,160 Ana Huang: they approached certain relationships, but the story is not about that, 695 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,520 Ana Huang: right like they can have love stories just like anyone else, 696 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,480 Ana Huang: like any one of any culture, and I want to 697 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Ana Huang: make sure that that was really present in the stories 698 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,680 Ana Huang: that I write, that it was still about the romance, 699 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Ana Huang: about the love story, but the cultural elements and influences 700 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Ana Huang: are also relevant. 701 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: You're releasing a new book today, Yes, congratulations, Thank you 702 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: tell us about it. 703 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,600 Ana Huang: Thank you. So. King of Glutney is the sixth book 704 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,880 Ana Huang: in my Kings of Sin series, and the Kings of 705 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,640 Ana Huang: Sin series is contemporary romances based on the Seven Deadly Sins. 706 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,640 Ana Huang: This one is my first ever childhood rivals to lovers romance. 707 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880 Ana Huang: So Maya and Sebastian, their families are best friends, but 708 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,000 Ana Huang: they themselves have been competing over basically everything since they 709 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,240 Ana Huang: were kids, like Gray's jobs, accomplishments, and then in this book, 710 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,760 Ana Huang: they are forced to work together on this like huge 711 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,640 Ana Huang: project which they're not very happy about. A lot of 712 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,840 Ana Huang: feelings arise, both old and new. There's a tiny little 713 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,560 Ana Huang: bit suspense subplot as well to keep things interesting. Yes, 714 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,800 Ana Huang: I really love them. I think for people that love 715 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,480 Ana Huang: a yearning hero, this one is for them. And I 716 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,360 Ana Huang: was a little nervous going into it because Gluttey is 717 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,320 Ana Huang: a hard stin to make appealing. 718 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm super sexy. I hope I succeeded. How has the 719 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: release of the book today been different for you than 720 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:07,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: last books? 721 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,600 Ana Huang: I mean, release days are always sort of a whirlwind 722 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,920 Ana Huang: for me, and I think it's just been really incredible 723 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,520 Ana Huang: to see the response to this book. Readers feel like 724 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,840 Ana Huang: they really connected to this one and sort of to 725 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,880 Ana Huang: their romance, and so it's just been really joyful all around. 726 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: What do you technically do on release days? 727 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,640 Ana Huang: I should be better about celebrating things. I'm not. But 728 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,200 Ana Huang: usually I love a good spa day, so I actually 729 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,840 Ana Huang: have a spa day after this, and usually I just 730 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,160 Ana Huang: treat myself to like a nice meal, like you know, 731 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,680 Ana Huang: a nice massage, and I try to take it easy. 732 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,280 Ana Huang: I try to stay off my phone. Obviously, I have 733 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,040 Ana Huang: to like respond to text and stuff, but I try 734 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,400 Ana Huang: to be out in the city so that I'm not 735 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,240 Ana Huang: just sitting at my desk like refreshing everything. Yeah. 736 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Are they sound like do they like that? No? 737 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,920 Ana Huang: Exactly, I'm like, Okay, how's it going? Are there any 738 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,560 Ana Huang: tech issues? I just have to be doing stuff so 739 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,080 Ana Huang: I'm not over thinking everything that. 740 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Totally makes sense. Is there something that at the time 741 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: could be something we've talked about, could be something different 742 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: that at the time you saw as a real low 743 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: point for you, and now, in hindsight, you see it 744 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: as having really launched you to the success you are today. 745 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,600 Ana Huang: I would say when I first moved to New York, 746 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,640 Ana Huang: those first couple of years, not that I was necessarily unhappy, 747 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,440 Ana Huang: but I was in my late twenties and I was 748 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,000 Ana Huang: doing the job and it was fine, but I was 749 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,479 Ana Huang: sort of like, I don't know, like it felt like 750 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,440 Ana Huang: the success that I had always wanted or like that 751 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,840 Ana Huang: sort of like big success, right that like my mom 752 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,920 Ana Huang: would always talk about whatever, Like it just felt so 753 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,320 Ana Huang: far away from me at that point, and like New 754 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,200 Ana Huang: York is so expensive, and I was living in this 755 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,080 Ana Huang: tiny apartment with two roommates and whatever, and I was like, 756 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,479 Ana Huang: oh my god. I was like, is this like all 757 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,560 Ana Huang: there is to life? Think, you know what I mean. 758 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,120 Ana Huang: So I would like sometimes spiral out a little bit 759 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,400 Ana Huang: where I'm like, where am I in the right job? 760 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,240 Ana Huang: Like what is it about this that I'm actually excited about? Right? 761 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,600 Ana Huang: So I had a lot of those like existential crises, 762 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,720 Ana Huang: which I think really led me to where I am today. 763 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,080 Ana Huang: Because now I'm like, yeah, like, obviously this is not 764 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,480 Ana Huang: always an easy job, but it is something that I 765 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,840 Ana Huang: am really excited and happy about. And I always ask myself, 766 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,480 Ana Huang: I'm like, even if I you know, I don't have 767 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,680 Ana Huang: any of this, you know, the New York Times bestseller 768 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,680 Ana Huang: all of this, I'm like, what I still want to write? 769 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,040 Ana Huang: And the answer is still yes. 770 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: Were you able to find any versions of happiness that 771 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the old job, like in the old version of. 772 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,240 Ana Huang: Your No, I mean it was. It wasn't awful or anything. 773 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,560 Ana Huang: I mean, I loved my team. I think I had. 774 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,040 Ana Huang: I probably had a better social life back then, because 775 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,600 Ana Huang: you know, it was like clock in, clock out, and 776 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,600 Ana Huang: then I could do whatever I wanted. And I definitely 777 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,880 Ana Huang: had a fun time living in my late twenties in 778 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,680 Ana Huang: New York. But I think it was you know when 779 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,720 Ana Huang: you lie awake late at night, at like two am, 780 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,919 Ana Huang: and you're just sort of like thinking, and so those 781 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,560 Ana Huang: are like the things I would be thinking about at 782 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,520 Ana Huang: like two in the morning, and I'm like, is this 783 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,759 Ana Huang: really what I see myself doing for the rest of 784 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:50,160 Ana Huang: my life? 785 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: What is your version of success now? 786 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,840 Ana Huang: I think for me success now is actually freedom, Like 787 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,840 Ana Huang: the time freedom the freedom to do the things that 788 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,960 Ana Huang: I want and not so much tied into sort of 789 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,279 Ana Huang: accolades or finances the way that it was I think 790 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,200 Ana Huang: in the early years. 791 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: You know, do you have a version of success for 792 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: your books and for your stories? 793 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,040 Ana Huang: Yeah, I mean I think for me, I mean, they've 794 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,720 Ana Huang: honestly gone beyond what I ever I thought they would, 795 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,560 Ana Huang: and you know, I obviously would love to see them 796 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,680 Ana Huang: on the big screen and for them to come to life. 797 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,839 Ana Huang: But for me, I think one of the things that 798 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,239 Ana Huang: has always stuck with me most beyond all of like 799 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,000 Ana Huang: the bestseller lists and all of that, is when I 800 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,080 Ana Huang: meet readers and they say your book has helped me 801 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,040 Ana Huang: through like a really hard time in my life, or 802 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,000 Ana Huang: this is you know, sort of like what kept me 803 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,560 Ana Huang: going and brought me joy. And it's really those moments 804 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,480 Ana Huang: that really stuck with me the most. 805 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: You know, do you have dream actors to play your characters? 806 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,359 Ana Huang: So I don't. I'm really bad at fancasting, but I 807 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,000 Ana Huang: actually almost want to have new faces away that like 808 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,600 Ana Huang: this will be their breakout role, you know what I mean. 809 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,719 Ana Huang: I think there's so much untopped great talent out there. 810 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,600 Ana Huang: I'm really excited to see can we consider this an 811 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,800 Ana Huang: open call for new talent. Yes, yes, and if anyone 812 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,960 Ana Huang: has any recommendations or fancast I am also open tearing them. 813 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Love that. Yes, let's get it. Let's get some RECs 814 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: going exactly. Let's introduce someone to the world. Yes, yes, 815 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: give them new opportunities. 816 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:25,760 Ana Huang: I love it amazing. 817 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: Ye, any platform we can create that can give people 818 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:33,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: new opportunities, particularly women, All in for truly all in? Well, 819 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: do you think you'll pivot again? Is this the thing 820 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: you'll be doing for the rest of your life? You know? 821 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,480 Ana Huang: I mean for now? I don't see myself doing anything else. 822 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,719 Ana Huang: Asking me again in ten years, I don't know. But 823 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,200 Ana Huang: I do really love it. I mean, I've loved books, 824 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,160 Ana Huang: and I've loved reading and writing since I was a kid. 825 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,840 Ana Huang: So I think, no matter what happens, It'll always be 826 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,360 Ana Huang: a part of my life in some way or another. 827 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Well, is there anything we haven't covered that we should? 828 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,520 Ana Huang: No? I mean no, this has been so much fun 829 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,640 Ana Huang: chatting with you. You have been so well prepared and comprehensive. 830 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:01,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: We cover a lot of ground too. 831 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,279 Ana Huang: Yes, No, this is amazing. Thank you so much for 832 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:04,799 Ana Huang: having me. 833 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Oh, I'm so honored to be here, priest spa like 834 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: you fit us in. I think it's a good sign 835 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:10,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you didn't think this was going to be too 836 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: stressful so you can unwind later. You're like, yeah, yeah, 837 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:14,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: this is good vibes. 838 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,600 Ana Huang: Na Me. I've listened to your past episodes and it's 839 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,120 Ana Huang: always always a good vibe. 840 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: So thank you for coming in. 841 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,600 Ana Huang: Thank you, thank you so much, such a pleasure. 842 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: For years, Ana was scared to make writing her job. 843 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: She figured it the second it became work, she'd stop 844 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: loving it. So when I asked her if all of 845 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: it disappeared tomorrow, the best seller list, the Netflix deal, 846 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: all of that, would she still write? She didn't even hesitate. 847 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: Of course, it was a yes. The one thing she 848 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: was too afraid to risk pursuing turned out to be 849 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: the one thing she couldn't give up, and the part 850 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: of herself that she hid from people in her life 851 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: ended up building a huge online community of millions of 852 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: passionate readers. Ana's new book, King of Gluttney is out now. 853 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: Her mom will buy the book. Her mom will not 854 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: be allowed to read it, but that doesn't mean you can't. 855 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: That's all for today. See you next Wednesday. Thanks for listening. 856 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: To she pivots. If you like this episode, follow the 857 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: show so you never miss a pivot story and share 858 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: it with one woman in your life who might need 859 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: to hear it. To learn more about our guests and 860 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: join our community, follow us on Instagram at she pivots 861 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: the podcast our Subscribe to our substack for exclusive content 862 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: and behind the scenes conversations. You can also find us 863 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: at shepivotspod dot com. This episode was produced and edited 864 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: by Paige Davis Jeannotte, with sound editing and mixing by 865 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Nina Pollock. Logistics and planning by Emma Stopek and Kendall Krupkin. 866 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: Research by Christine Dickason. She Pivots is proud to be 867 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: a part of the iHeart Podcast Network. I endorse She 868 00:38:54,120 --> 00:39:02,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Pivots