WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Sacred Squirrels and More 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:14.080 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff to 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.720 Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.000 Joe McCormick, and we're bringing you listener mail today. Now, 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.759 of course we've got our trusty mail bought Carney here. Carney, 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.280 of course, used to be Arnie. Then he was subjected 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.040 to Cartesian doubt, became Carney, and then he was subjected 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.319 to an infestation of scugs, and now he's just full 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.159 of squirrels, has been for months. Uh, it's an ongoing problem. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.960 But I've noticed some of these squirrels infesting Carney. While 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.080 they used to be more of a of a nuisance, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.880 crawling throughout his gears and pulling out wires and stuff, 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.879 now I think they have taken on a kind of 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.200 a sacred or holy aura. I'm not sure what's changed 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.319 about them. Oh well, you know, I feel like our 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.560 episodes on squirrels kind of had this effect on a 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.680 lot of people. They transformed the lowly squirrel, the profane 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.440 square whirl into something of a sacred squirrel. I feel 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.880 like that was that was my experience, the sacred cannibal. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.640 because I before the King of Rats, the King of 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.440 the Rats. Yeah, I get it on a shirt at 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:15.120 our our T shirt store. But yeah, before I I 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.520 liked squirrels. Okay, I guess you know. I watched them, 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:18.960 but I would also like chase them away from the 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.880 bird feeder and all. But after our episodes, I like, 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.640 I really began to respect squirrels so much more I 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.600 would I stopped chasing them. I and now feed them 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.400 every day. I feed them meal worms sort of an 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.440 offering to them, and I just love watching them scamper 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.640 around and eat their meal worms and drink from the 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.679 bird feeder. I'm just I'm all on on squirrels. You 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.120 say that until they turn on you. Well, as long 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.800 as I keep the meal worms coming, I think I'm okay. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.280 But before we get into the proper listener mail, I 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.080 do want to address the squirrels on Carney, and I 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.400 want to share with everybody, uh a sacred tradition of 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.320 the squirrel that um I neglected to mention in previous episodes, 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.840 and it concerns the Indian palm squirrel or three striped 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.359 palm palm squirrel of South India and Sri Lanka. This 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:15.640 is a funambulis pal marum and in Hindu traditions, the 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.000 palm squirrel is associated with Rama. Now Ramah some of 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.760 you may already be familiar, is the seventh avatar of 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.840 Vishnu and the title character of the epic Ramayana. And 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.760 in this story of the Ramayana, uh Rama's wife Sita 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.920 is kidnapped by the demon king Ravana and taken to 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.760 the island of Lanka. So he what he does. He 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.560 wants to get to seated back, so he assembles his 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.520 forces and his allies in order to defeat Ravanna and 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.080 bring her home, which of course means traveling to Lanka, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.400 which is modern day Sri Lanka. So he has to 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.919 march the Nara Ape army across this this vast body 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.640 of water. So they need a bridge, so they build 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.040 one in the form of the Rama set to. So 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.600 the cool thing about the Rama said to is that 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.000 it actually exists in the form of a chain of 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.320 limestone shoal spread between the Indian subcontinent and Sri Lanka, 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.160 also known as Adams Bridge. Uh. But it's it's thought 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.840 to have once been a geological land bridge. So perhaps 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.040 maybe if sea levels were lower or something it could 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.600 be revealed, or if the limestone is just higher for 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.880 some reason. Yeah, I'd love to come back and do 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.240 an episode on land bridges because obviously they play an 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.800 important role in the movements of species, including Homo sapiens. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.840 But in this myth, it involves the movement of an 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.600 ape army. By the way I mentioned, it is also 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.120 known as Adams Bridge, and I imagine a lot of 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.400 you might think, well, that's probably coming from Western interpretations, right, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.360 but it's actually like Adam from like the first Man 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.320 of Genesis, and that is who it's referring to. But 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.160 according to what I was looking at, it's actually linked 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.680 to Islamic traditions and more importantly linked to the Sri 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:02.200 Lankan mountain Adam's Peak, which is a sacred mountain and Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.240 and Islam, and it's said to be the footprint of 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.440 either Shiva, the Hindu god, or Adam or St. Thomas 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:17.560 in christian in Islamic traditions. Anyway, according to Hindu traditions, though, uh, 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.800 this land bridge, this bridge was constructed in order to 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.760 march the Ape army to Lanka, and uh, most of 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:27.920 most of the work is being done by the Vanara, 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.919 the apes. They're they're carrying all these heavy stones, dumping 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.400 them into the ocean and building this great bridge to 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.080 march the army across. But then there's one small squirrel 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.080 that tries to help as well. And so there are 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.760 a few different versions I ran across here of you know, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.800 regarding how the squirrels trying to help. There's one where 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.080 the squirrels just rolling around in the sand and then 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.640 marching out to the you know, the farthest extent of 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.000 the the bridge under construction, and then shakes off the 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.040 sand into the water. Another one is that it just 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.320 kind of fills its mouth with pebbles and then arches 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.600 out there and drops the pebbles off the edge. This 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.679 is a good story. Yeah, So the so the squirrel 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.760 is is devoted, the squirrel is really trying to help, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.960 but the apes are doing most of the work. And uh. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.919 In one version, the apes just eventually they're tired of 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.520 the squirrel being underfoot and they're like, look, we're doing it. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.240 We're dropping boulders in here, you're you're dropping pebbles, And 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.600 so they hurl the squirrel out of the way and 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.920 then the squirrel lands right in Rama's lap, and Rama 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.960 is is impressed by the creature's devotion. You know, it's 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.800 it's not so much about how much work the squirrel 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.240 is getting done, but just how how how eager the 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.000 squirrel is to help, how devoted the squirrel is. And 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.640 so Rama rewards the squirrel. He takes three fingers and 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.120 he runs them down the squirrels back. And remember this 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.440 species is the the three striped palm squirrel. It has 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.520 three stripes down its back. So this is a classic 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.880 ideological myth. Right, you've got you've got a a fact 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.560 you observe about the world. How did it get that way? 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.719 And this story explains how exactly the fact of course 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.720 here is the three stripes. Yeah, so it is the 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.920 mark of a god on the squirrel's back. And uh. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.599 And so the idea is that it is a sacred creature. 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.560 It's to be protected. You're not supposed to harm the 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.440 squirrel and uh, you know it's typically fed by families 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.960 then in devotion to Rama. So I just thought that 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.880 was a fun little tale to share with everybody. Uh, 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.479 and an example of of a sacred squirrel. So the 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.640 next time you're you're you know, entertaining profane thoughts about 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.719 the squirrel. Perhaps entertain a sacred interpretation of these skurrying 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.359 little beasts absolutely blessed by the caress of rama. I 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.440 will never look at our mail bots infestation the same way. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.120 It's it's all good stuff, all right. But then on 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.320 that note, we should probably start turn into some listener 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.920 mail here. Uh. And and it's actually an ideal that 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.760 we we have already mentioned in this episode a sacred mountain, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.840 because we heard from a lot of our listeners about 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.760 sacred mountains and holy mountains, holy peaks and the entities 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.920 that might be and might be encountered there. Well, then 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:04.839 in that spirit, maybe we should go straight to a 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.000 few of the emails we got about sacred mountains. Of course, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.960 we did a two part episode on sacred mountain traditions 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.800 of the world. Uh some links so some some mountaintop psychology, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.960 some some high altitude low pressure uh physiology and neuroscience, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.640 and just of course many great myths about the mountains 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.880 of the gods. And we asked for uh, the experiences 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.280 people out there have had with sacred mountains. Sou do 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.560 you want to do? This? One from Cody first, Yeah, 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.360 let's hear from Cody. Okay, so Cody says, perfect timing 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:37.960 of the episode. As I listened to these episodes literally 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.920 driving down from my climb up and ski down of 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.920 Mount Shasta, I have spent decades hiking, rock climbing, and 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.560 skiing in the Sierra Nevada and Klamath Mountains. Yosemite and 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.320 Shasta to me, are particularly spiritual places, even though I'm 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.920 not a religious or spiritual person. Both having immense senses 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.840 of scale and isolation mirrors religion of the mountains as 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.760 probably the closest thing to religion for me. Regarding feeling 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.080 or seeing other beings out in high elevation wilderness, I 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.960 haven't had any experiences at the level of the ones 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.120 you talked about on Everest, but in regards to thinking 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.520 you're seeing things that aren't there or mistaking shapes that 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.920 can very easily happen. In my recent Shasta climb, multiple 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.280 times I mistook the silhouette created by the snow and 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.800 rock interacting as someone pausing above me. The mixture of 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.200 physical exertion and lack of oxygen from elevation on the 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.559 brain is not something to be taken lightly. Then add 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.880 in the parallax trickery of huge mountainous environments. Even at 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.280 sea level, physical exertion will wreck cognition, and just about 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.640 all elite athletes will do training to combat this, such 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.920 as wind sprints than doing math problems. And that's all 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.839 before you add in any sort of less than perfect weather. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.240 Being involved with the climbing and mountaineering community. Though, I 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.280 feel like you don't hear as much of out the 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.040 ie HAP condition you guys coined, and I think what 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.559 did that stand. I think it was something like isolated 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:14.439 high altitude psychosis or international house um uh. He continues. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.240 Certainly plenty of spiritual or larger than life feelings, even 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.199 a few that mimic micro dosing psychoactive drugs. That's interesting. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.000 Maybe those do count, But it was a shame a 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.480 lot of those studies had pitiful sample sizes. Considering even 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.120 just the number of people uh professionally guided on Everest 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.000 eight people, the studies shouldn't have gotten published, in my opinion. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.480 While the study we looked at in the episode did 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.640 a sort of literature review where they looked back at 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.360 all the pre existing studies they could find about asking 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.520 mountain climbers whether they'd had any kind of experiences like this. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.960 So yeah, some of the studies had small sample sizes, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.600 but they looked at multiple studies. Anyway, back to Cody, 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.559 So Cody says, uh, glad to hear you mentioned, Marry. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.840 I worked for the North Face and have gotten to 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.600 spend time with Conrad Anchor talking to him about his 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.760 experiences climbing Mirru and his many, many, many other experiences 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.000 in the mountains. It's particularly interesting to hear about the 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.839 intersection of the beliefs and traditions of those who live 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.640 in the Himalayas and those who go to climb in 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.520 those mountains. Meru in particular, was something Conrad and team 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.480 handled carefully since it was literally the center of the 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.200 universe for a lot of people on A closer to 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.400 home example of the spiritual rituals butting up against the 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.720 climbing is the closing of Devil's Tower every June for 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.400 Native American ceremonies. Also many other sandstone towers in the Southwest. 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.440 I guess he means the American Southwest are permanently closed 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.120 due to their spiritual significance to Native people's in terms 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.679 of evil mountains, and this was a question we asked you, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.600 or are there any like hell mountains or devil mountains? 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.800 We couldn't find examples, but surely there are, uh. Cody continues. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.760 In terms of evil mountains, I was also hard pressed 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.320 to think of one. There are certainly peaks that carry 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.360 a stigma or curse by how many percent of climbers 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.360 have perished, such as K two or how many parties 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.960 have been rebuffed Miru for a while, but I couldn't 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.400 think of a spiritually evil mountain. Side note, when you 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.559 guys were talking about that British Everest climber not using 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.080 oxygen versus today. The use of supplemental O two is 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.920 certainly widely used in this day, day and age of 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.920 high altitude mountaineering. But in this day and age of 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.719 mountaineering where the style of how you do something can 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.439 be almost as important as the climb itself, i e. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.920 The use of O two does diminish the level of 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.120 accomplishments since it makes it easier. So the best of 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.120 the best and high altitude mountaineering still do not use 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.960 O two. I love the wide variety of topics you 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.080 guys cover. Well, Thank you, Cody. Yeah, that was really interesting. Yeah, absolutely. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.600 I had a feeling that, you know, given our sort 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.400 of broad listener base, so that we had to have 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.800 some mountain climbers out there, and I guess it makes 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.800 sense that some of them may have just climbed a 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.320 mountain and we're just ready to to chime in. I'm 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.959 interested in Cody's thing about there. It's sort of being 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.320 a badge of honor that you can climb without OH two. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.560 Of course, we're not like recommending people do that because 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.280 obviously that increases the risk of you know, the dangers 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.160 of what you're doing. And also I am I am 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.120 not qualified to make any recommendations about mountain climbs. Well, no, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.600 I mean just generally we're not saying like, yeah, don't 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.400 use O two, you know, but if that is indeed 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.240 a sort of like it makes the achievement more in 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.880 held in higher esteem by other mountaineers and uh, mountain 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.560 climbing people. I wonder if part of that might be 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.640 that if you climb without O two, you appear to 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.719 be more likely to have these mildly altered states of 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.000 consciousness what Cody compares to being sort of like micro 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.520 dosing certain psychogenic drugs, or more likely to cause these 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.880 kind of errors of perception that that make the world 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.800 feel a bit unreal. Yeah, yeah, I wonder, I mean, 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.600 it's I guess it's likely that it's also probably just 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.480 a little bit of like the uh, you know, sort 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.280 of the heroics of the thing, right, that's obviously there. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.880 I mean, I'm just dring if it's this other thing too, Yeah, 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.240 I could see that possibly be in the case. All right, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.040 here's another one that comes in related to sacred mountains. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.439 This comes to us from James. James says, Hello, Robert 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.480 and Joe. I have been a long time listener, and 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.640 believe this my first email in I have recently been 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.760 reading into the folklore of the Crow Nations and came 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.160 across the story about the Little People of the Prior 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.480 Mountains being from Oklahoma. I thought they were referring to 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.880 the Prior here since they are arguably since they're arguably 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.760 no true mountains in Oklahoma. I learned that they were 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.360 referring to one of the many mountain ranges in Montana, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.959 where the Crown Nation is from. The Little People were 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:41.319 another race, standing around knee height but contained containing immense strength. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.160 They lived in the mountains and attacked those that entered 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.400 the area. However, some were allowed to pass through if 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.280 they left an offering of beads or tobacco. Uh. The 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.280 other way to pass through was to shoot an arrow 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.480 ahead of you as you passed. The little people also 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.480 sometimes met with those that went to the mountain to fast. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.560 One tail I found was of Chief Plenty Coups meeting 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.400 them when he was nine. In the Choctaw Nations creation story, 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.559 it says that the Chickasaw and Choctawl nations came from 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.200 a great mound, well, not a sacred mountain. The story 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.680 seems to fit with this as well. Sorry for the 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.599 long email. I only read about these stories recently, and 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.840 when your episode came out, it made me think of 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.160 the bet or Mineho phenomenon. Yeah, thank you for the 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:28.000 hours uh and hours and hours of informative entertainment. Best regards, James. 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.440 This is something I think maybe we uh we could 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.560 have explored more in the episode, but didn't come up 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.120 as much. Which is the idea of like myths and 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.280 religious stories that have mountains as the dwelling place. Uh, 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.520 not just of the gods, but of like other types 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.160 of people's or other beings, you know, the mountains being 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.760 a place of trolls, or the mountains being the place 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.040 of like the little people. Yeah, this is, this is 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.240 It would be an interesting avenue to explore more in 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.360 the future. I mean, I I instantly think two of 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.320 of goblins and creatures of that nature as well. All right, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:00.960 we have another one here. This one comes to us 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.280 from him. I'm right Sin and says, hey, guys, I 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.920 was really surprised to not hear you touch on Mount 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.600 Sinai in the Sacred Mountains episode. I mean actual or 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.720 mythical locations that are associated with myths that have wide 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.760 cultural relevance and staying power. The first thing I think 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.480 of is Mount Sinai. I'll admit I'm biased in that 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.520 respect because I'm a former Orthodox Jew, but I understand 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.280 that it has similar or equal relevance in Christianity and 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.840 Islam as well. Maybe you didn't touch on it on 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.320 purpose because it would be too socially or politically controversial 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.800 to address Abrahamic religions as mythologies that share so many 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.360 similar themes to lots of ancient belief systems. That's actually 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.840 what I opened up the podcast hoping to hear the 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.240 main content be regardless. I really enjoyed the episode and 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.520 your show in general. Uh. Yeah, Mount Sinai is a 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.040 great one. Of course. That is for example, in the 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.040 Book of Exodus, that is where it has said that 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.560 Moses receives the Ten Commandments on top of Mount Sinai 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.360 from from God. Um, there was no reason we didn't 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:00.920 mention it, I think, get I think it just didn't 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.480 come up. Yeah, we we just kind of forgot to 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.120 include it, which is there. There are a whole lot 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.360 of holy mountains, so yeah, but it is true. This 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.000 is a this is a huge one of big cultural significance. Yeah. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.680 And I do think like the story of Moses is 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:17.840 a sent into Mount Sinai or he you know, he 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.200 receives the Ten Commandments, and like there is something interesting 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.920 going on there with like he disappears into the mountain 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.680 and then what happens to the people while he's gone 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.440 while they turned to idol worship immediately while while he 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.520 has disappeared because they're waiting for him to come down. 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.560 Something's interesting is going on there. I haven't quite thought 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.400 about how to phrase it, but yeah, absolutely, and and 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.360 I do want to also just remind everybody, like when 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.840 we talk about myth and religion on the show. Um, 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.520 I do hope everyone understands that we you know, we 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.600 try to discuss mytho, mythology and myth as being is 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.120 having more weight than simply saying like this is a 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.840 story made up by people, you know, like, oh, yeah, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.240 we're not using myth as a pejorative or the way 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.680 some people sometimes do. Like some will use the word 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.240 myth to mean like a thing that is a lie, right, 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.560 something like that. It's not like MythBusters, right, no, no no, no, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.159 we're using it in the sense of like a traditional 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:14.359 or foundational story, often involving supernatural elements. Right. But what 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.159 a different show MythBusters would have been if that was 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.240 the cell Like we're gonna go after another myth this 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:25.720 this this a week, it's Prometheus the stories bs and 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.120 then they bust it somehow, I don't know. We get 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.400 some internet commenters that are like that, Like every time 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.160 we put something up about some interesting mythological topic, somebody 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.760 chimes in the comments is like fake bs made up. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.919 Well yeah, like I think you're missing the point a 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.959 little bit. Yeah, well that that tends to happen on like, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.320 you know, some of our social media accounts where you 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.359 maybe have people come in that don't really know the 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.520 show and then you see something where where like a 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.800 myth is referenced in the title or the description, and 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.520 then they kind of react, Yeah, you know, if you 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.080 are that person and your your yours sending no hard feelings, 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.840 but but maybe maybe think about don't do that. I mean, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.359 certainly we always invite everyone to actually listen to the 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.920 episodes and respond to the content of the episodes. And 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.359 along those lines, I mean we we do, uh, we 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.600 do make mistakes here and there, and that's why we'd 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.160 love to hear from everybody. We we skip over things 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.520 by accident, like Mount SINAI. Uh. So you know, we're 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:26.119 we're we're on a continuous journey of discovery and self 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.760 improvement here and and we hope everybody else is engaging 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.040 with the world, uh with that kind of growth mindset 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.600 as well. Well. One last thing I'll say is someone 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.560 who creates nonfiction content, I will say not all omissions 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.040 are intentional omissions. So like, there's literally no way we 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.159 can talk about all the sacred mountains in the world 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.159 in our episode that was you know, a total of 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.760 however many minutes, so Uh so, I don't know. Always 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.000 keep that in mind. It's just like sometimes you just 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.520 picked the things that you pick to talk about because 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.320 they were interesting and and they're what came up. It's 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.520 not because you thought everything else should be left out right, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.680 and then that's what listener mail episodes are ultimately four 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.080 to you know, we we hoped and expected to hear 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.160 from folks with examples of really cool traditions that we 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.119 uh you know, forgot to cover or just we're not 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.760 aware of. Like to go back to Adam's peak that 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.520 I mentioned at the top of this episode, I was 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.439 not familiar with that Sri lankin Um Holy Mountain until 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.840 looking at Following the Trail of the Squirrel. So yeah, 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.679 like I said, we're continually learning new things and trying 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.040 to share them with everybody in that spirit of open mindedness. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.240 May we now bludge in you with an advertisement. Let's 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:39.760 do it, but we will be right back. Thank all right, 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.239 We're back, and uh, you know, I believe we have 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.160 some listener mail related to another recent episode, our episode 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.840 about the imp of the perverse. Right, this is the 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.520 impulse to do wrong simply for the reason that it's wrong, 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.959 and no other reason at all. Uh So this comes 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.920 to us from our listener, Miriam. Miriam says, Hi, Joe 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.480 and Robert, thank for the great episode The imp of 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.280 the Perverse. It was very interesting to consider all the 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.480 various ways this phenomenon can affect our lives. When you 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.880 talked about intrusive thoughts and the techniques that have been 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.840 shown to help some people overcome them, I was struck 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.040 by how closely it mirrored my own experience with a 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.520 form of O c D called pure Oh it differs 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.840 from traditional O c D, and of course that's an 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:27.280 obsessive compulsive disorder. It differs from traditional O c D 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.040 in that the compulsion triggered by the intrusive thought is 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.840 not a physical behavior such as handwashing, but the mental 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.280 checking of the thought and of the body's visceral responses 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.639 to it. When you talked about checking on intrusive thoughts 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.320 and how it leads to a positive feedback loop, I 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.560 was surprised by how closely you described this disorder without 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.520 naming it. I believe that the pure O variant of 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.640 O c D is lesser known and highly insidious, as 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.720 people can suffer tremendously for a long time without having 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.639 any visible symptoms that might more easily prompt them or 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.120 their loved ones to consider seeking professional help. I think 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.439 better awareness of this disorder could help people understand that 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.320 the techniques you described, which were exactly what I did 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:16.200 in therapy alongside CBT, can really can provide hugely from 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.760 intrusive thoughts if they begin to take over your life. 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.040