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Speaker 1: Welcome Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, and we're bringing you listener mail today. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course we've got our trusty mail bought Carney here. Carney,

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Speaker 1: of course, used to be Arnie. Then he was subjected

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Speaker 1: to Cartesian doubt, became Carney, and then he was subjected

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Speaker 1: to an infestation of scugs, and now he's just full

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Speaker 1: of squirrels, has been for months. Uh, it's an ongoing problem.

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Speaker 1: But I've noticed some of these squirrels infesting Carney. While

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Speaker 1: they used to be more of a of a nuisance,

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Speaker 1: crawling throughout his gears and pulling out wires and stuff,

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Speaker 1: now I think they have taken on a kind of

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Speaker 1: a sacred or holy aura. I'm not sure what's changed

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Speaker 1: about them. Oh well, you know, I feel like our

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Speaker 1: episodes on squirrels kind of had this effect on a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. They transformed the lowly squirrel, the profane

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Speaker 1: square whirl into something of a sacred squirrel. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that was that was my experience, the sacred cannibal. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I before the King of Rats, the King of

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Speaker 1: the Rats. Yeah, I get it on a shirt at

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Speaker 1: our our T shirt store. But yeah, before I I

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Speaker 1: liked squirrels. Okay, I guess you know. I watched them,

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Speaker 1: but I would also like chase them away from the

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Speaker 1: bird feeder and all. But after our episodes, I like,

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Speaker 1: I really began to respect squirrels so much more I

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Speaker 1: would I stopped chasing them. I and now feed them

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Speaker 1: every day. I feed them meal worms sort of an

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Speaker 1: offering to them, and I just love watching them scamper

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Speaker 1: around and eat their meal worms and drink from the

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Speaker 1: bird feeder. I'm just I'm all on on squirrels. You

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Speaker 1: say that until they turn on you. Well, as long

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Speaker 1: as I keep the meal worms coming, I think I'm okay.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into the proper listener mail, I

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Speaker 1: do want to address the squirrels on Carney, and I

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Speaker 1: want to share with everybody, uh a sacred tradition of

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Speaker 1: the squirrel that um I neglected to mention in previous episodes,

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Speaker 1: and it concerns the Indian palm squirrel or three striped

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Speaker 1: palm palm squirrel of South India and Sri Lanka. This

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Speaker 1: is a funambulis pal marum and in Hindu traditions, the

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Speaker 1: palm squirrel is associated with Rama. Now Ramah some of

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Speaker 1: you may already be familiar, is the seventh avatar of

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Speaker 1: Vishnu and the title character of the epic Ramayana. And

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Speaker 1: in this story of the Ramayana, uh Rama's wife Sita

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Speaker 1: is kidnapped by the demon king Ravana and taken to

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Speaker 1: the island of Lanka. So he what he does. He

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Speaker 1: wants to get to seated back, so he assembles his

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Speaker 1: forces and his allies in order to defeat Ravanna and

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Speaker 1: bring her home, which of course means traveling to Lanka,

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Speaker 1: which is modern day Sri Lanka. So he has to

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Speaker 1: march the Nara Ape army across this this vast body

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Speaker 1: of water. So they need a bridge, so they build

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Speaker 1: one in the form of the Rama set to. So

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Speaker 1: the cool thing about the Rama said to is that

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Speaker 1: it actually exists in the form of a chain of

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Speaker 1: limestone shoal spread between the Indian subcontinent and Sri Lanka,

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Speaker 1: also known as Adams Bridge. Uh. But it's it's thought

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Speaker 1: to have once been a geological land bridge. So perhaps

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Speaker 1: maybe if sea levels were lower or something it could

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Speaker 1: be revealed, or if the limestone is just higher for

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Speaker 1: some reason. Yeah, I'd love to come back and do

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Speaker 1: an episode on land bridges because obviously they play an

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Speaker 1: important role in the movements of species, including Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 1: But in this myth, it involves the movement of an

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Speaker 1: ape army. By the way I mentioned, it is also

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Speaker 1: known as Adams Bridge, and I imagine a lot of

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Speaker 1: you might think, well, that's probably coming from Western interpretations, right,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually like Adam from like the first Man

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Speaker 1: of Genesis, and that is who it's referring to. But

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Speaker 1: according to what I was looking at, it's actually linked

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Speaker 1: to Islamic traditions and more importantly linked to the Sri

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Speaker 1: Lankan mountain Adam's Peak, which is a sacred mountain and Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity,

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Speaker 1: and Islam, and it's said to be the footprint of

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Speaker 1: either Shiva, the Hindu god, or Adam or St. Thomas

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Speaker 1: in christian in Islamic traditions. Anyway, according to Hindu traditions, though, uh,

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Speaker 1: this land bridge, this bridge was constructed in order to

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Speaker 1: march the Ape army to Lanka, and uh, most of

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Speaker 1: most of the work is being done by the Vanara,

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Speaker 1: the apes. They're they're carrying all these heavy stones, dumping

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Speaker 1: them into the ocean and building this great bridge to

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Speaker 1: march the army across. But then there's one small squirrel

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Speaker 1: that tries to help as well. And so there are

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Speaker 1: a few different versions I ran across here of you know,

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Speaker 1: regarding how the squirrels trying to help. There's one where

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Speaker 1: the squirrels just rolling around in the sand and then

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Speaker 1: marching out to the you know, the farthest extent of

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Speaker 1: the the bridge under construction, and then shakes off the

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Speaker 1: sand into the water. Another one is that it just

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Speaker 1: kind of fills its mouth with pebbles and then arches

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Speaker 1: out there and drops the pebbles off the edge. This

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Speaker 1: is a good story. Yeah, So the so the squirrel

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Speaker 1: is is devoted, the squirrel is really trying to help,

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Speaker 1: but the apes are doing most of the work. And uh.

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Speaker 1: In one version, the apes just eventually they're tired of

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Speaker 1: the squirrel being underfoot and they're like, look, we're doing it.

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Speaker 1: We're dropping boulders in here, you're you're dropping pebbles, And

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Speaker 1: so they hurl the squirrel out of the way and

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Speaker 1: then the squirrel lands right in Rama's lap, and Rama

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Speaker 1: is is impressed by the creature's devotion. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not so much about how much work the squirrel

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Speaker 1: is getting done, but just how how how eager the

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Speaker 1: squirrel is to help, how devoted the squirrel is. And

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Speaker 1: so Rama rewards the squirrel. He takes three fingers and

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Speaker 1: he runs them down the squirrels back. And remember this

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Speaker 1: species is the the three striped palm squirrel. It has

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Speaker 1: three stripes down its back. So this is a classic

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Speaker 1: ideological myth. Right, you've got you've got a a fact

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Speaker 1: you observe about the world. How did it get that way?

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Speaker 1: And this story explains how exactly the fact of course

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Speaker 1: here is the three stripes. Yeah, so it is the

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Speaker 1: mark of a god on the squirrel's back. And uh.

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Speaker 1: And so the idea is that it is a sacred creature.

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Speaker 1: It's to be protected. You're not supposed to harm the

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Speaker 1: squirrel and uh, you know it's typically fed by families

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Speaker 1: then in devotion to Rama. So I just thought that

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Speaker 1: was a fun little tale to share with everybody. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and an example of of a sacred squirrel. So the

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Speaker 1: next time you're you're you know, entertaining profane thoughts about

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Speaker 1: the squirrel. Perhaps entertain a sacred interpretation of these skurrying

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Speaker 1: little beasts absolutely blessed by the caress of rama. I

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Speaker 1: will never look at our mail bots infestation the same way.

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Speaker 1: It's it's all good stuff, all right. But then on

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Speaker 1: that note, we should probably start turn into some listener

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Speaker 1: mail here. Uh. And and it's actually an ideal that

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Speaker 1: we we have already mentioned in this episode a sacred mountain,

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Speaker 1: because we heard from a lot of our listeners about

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Speaker 1: sacred mountains and holy mountains, holy peaks and the entities

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Speaker 1: that might be and might be encountered there. Well, then

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Speaker 1: in that spirit, maybe we should go straight to a

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Speaker 1: few of the emails we got about sacred mountains. Of course,

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Speaker 1: we did a two part episode on sacred mountain traditions

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Speaker 1: of the world. Uh some links so some some mountaintop psychology,

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Speaker 1: some some high altitude low pressure uh physiology and neuroscience,

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Speaker 1: and just of course many great myths about the mountains

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Speaker 1: of the gods. And we asked for uh, the experiences

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Speaker 1: people out there have had with sacred mountains. Sou do

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Speaker 1: you want to do? This? One from Cody first, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's hear from Cody. Okay, so Cody says, perfect timing

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Speaker 1: of the episode. As I listened to these episodes literally

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Speaker 1: driving down from my climb up and ski down of

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Speaker 1: Mount Shasta, I have spent decades hiking, rock climbing, and

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Speaker 1: skiing in the Sierra Nevada and Klamath Mountains. Yosemite and

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Speaker 1: Shasta to me, are particularly spiritual places, even though I'm

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Speaker 1: not a religious or spiritual person. Both having immense senses

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Speaker 1: of scale and isolation mirrors religion of the mountains as

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Speaker 1: probably the closest thing to religion for me. Regarding feeling

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Speaker 1: or seeing other beings out in high elevation wilderness, I

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Speaker 1: haven't had any experiences at the level of the ones

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Speaker 1: you talked about on Everest, but in regards to thinking

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Speaker 1: you're seeing things that aren't there or mistaking shapes that

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Speaker 1: can very easily happen. In my recent Shasta climb, multiple

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Speaker 1: times I mistook the silhouette created by the snow and

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Speaker 1: rock interacting as someone pausing above me. The mixture of

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Speaker 1: physical exertion and lack of oxygen from elevation on the

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Speaker 1: brain is not something to be taken lightly. Then add

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Speaker 1: in the parallax trickery of huge mountainous environments. Even at

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Speaker 1: sea level, physical exertion will wreck cognition, and just about

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Speaker 1: all elite athletes will do training to combat this, such

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Speaker 1: as wind sprints than doing math problems. And that's all

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Speaker 1: before you add in any sort of less than perfect weather.

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Speaker 1: Being involved with the climbing and mountaineering community. Though, I

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Speaker 1: feel like you don't hear as much of out the

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Speaker 1: ie HAP condition you guys coined, and I think what

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Speaker 1: did that stand. I think it was something like isolated

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Speaker 1: high altitude psychosis or international house um uh. He continues.

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Speaker 1: Certainly plenty of spiritual or larger than life feelings, even

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Speaker 1: a few that mimic micro dosing psychoactive drugs. That's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Maybe those do count, But it was a shame a

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Speaker 1: lot of those studies had pitiful sample sizes. Considering even

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Speaker 1: just the number of people uh professionally guided on Everest

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Speaker 1: eight people, the studies shouldn't have gotten published, in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: While the study we looked at in the episode did

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Speaker 1: a sort of literature review where they looked back at

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Speaker 1: all the pre existing studies they could find about asking

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Speaker 1: mountain climbers whether they'd had any kind of experiences like this.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, some of the studies had small sample sizes,

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Speaker 1: but they looked at multiple studies. Anyway, back to Cody,

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Speaker 1: So Cody says, uh, glad to hear you mentioned, Marry.

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Speaker 1: I worked for the North Face and have gotten to

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Speaker 1: spend time with Conrad Anchor talking to him about his

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Speaker 1: experiences climbing Mirru and his many, many, many other experiences

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Speaker 1: in the mountains. It's particularly interesting to hear about the

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Speaker 1: intersection of the beliefs and traditions of those who live

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Speaker 1: in the Himalayas and those who go to climb in

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Speaker 1: those mountains. Meru in particular, was something Conrad and team

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Speaker 1: handled carefully since it was literally the center of the

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Speaker 1: universe for a lot of people on A closer to

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Speaker 1: home example of the spiritual rituals butting up against the

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Speaker 1: climbing is the closing of Devil's Tower every June for

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Speaker 1: Native American ceremonies. Also many other sandstone towers in the Southwest.

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Speaker 1: I guess he means the American Southwest are permanently closed

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Speaker 1: due to their spiritual significance to Native people's in terms

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Speaker 1: of evil mountains, and this was a question we asked you,

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Speaker 1: or are there any like hell mountains or devil mountains?

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Speaker 1: We couldn't find examples, but surely there are, uh. Cody continues.

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Speaker 1: In terms of evil mountains, I was also hard pressed

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Speaker 1: to think of one. There are certainly peaks that carry

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Speaker 1: a stigma or curse by how many percent of climbers

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Speaker 1: have perished, such as K two or how many parties

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Speaker 1: have been rebuffed Miru for a while, but I couldn't

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Speaker 1: think of a spiritually evil mountain. Side note, when you

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Speaker 1: guys were talking about that British Everest climber not using

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Speaker 1: oxygen versus today. The use of supplemental O two is

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Speaker 1: certainly widely used in this day, day and age of

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Speaker 1: high altitude mountaineering. But in this day and age of

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Speaker 1: mountaineering where the style of how you do something can

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Speaker 1: be almost as important as the climb itself, i e.

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Speaker 1: The use of O two does diminish the level of

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Speaker 1: accomplishments since it makes it easier. So the best of

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Speaker 1: the best and high altitude mountaineering still do not use

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Speaker 1: O two. I love the wide variety of topics you

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Speaker 1: guys cover. Well, Thank you, Cody. Yeah, that was really interesting. Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I had a feeling that, you know, given our sort

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Speaker 1: of broad listener base, so that we had to have

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Speaker 1: some mountain climbers out there, and I guess it makes

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Speaker 1: sense that some of them may have just climbed a

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Speaker 1: mountain and we're just ready to to chime in. I'm

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Speaker 1: interested in Cody's thing about there. It's sort of being

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Speaker 1: a badge of honor that you can climb without OH two.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we're not like recommending people do that because

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Speaker 1: obviously that increases the risk of you know, the dangers

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Speaker 1: of what you're doing. And also I am I am

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Speaker 1: not qualified to make any recommendations about mountain climbs. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean just generally we're not saying like, yeah, don't

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Speaker 1: use O two, you know, but if that is indeed

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Speaker 1: a sort of like it makes the achievement more in

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Speaker 1: held in higher esteem by other mountaineers and uh, mountain

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Speaker 1: climbing people. I wonder if part of that might be

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Speaker 1: that if you climb without O two, you appear to

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Speaker 1: be more likely to have these mildly altered states of

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Speaker 1: consciousness what Cody compares to being sort of like micro

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Speaker 1: dosing certain psychogenic drugs, or more likely to cause these

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Speaker 1: kind of errors of perception that that make the world

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Speaker 1: feel a bit unreal. Yeah, yeah, I wonder, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's I guess it's likely that it's also probably just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of like the uh, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of the heroics of the thing, right, that's obviously there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just dring if it's this other thing too, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could see that possibly be in the case. All right,

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Speaker 1: here's another one that comes in related to sacred mountains.

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Speaker 1: This comes to us from James. James says, Hello, Robert

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Speaker 1: and Joe. I have been a long time listener, and

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Speaker 1: believe this my first email in I have recently been

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Speaker 1: reading into the folklore of the Crow Nations and came

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Speaker 1: across the story about the Little People of the Prior

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Speaker 1: Mountains being from Oklahoma. I thought they were referring to

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Speaker 1: the Prior here since they are arguably since they're arguably

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Speaker 1: no true mountains in Oklahoma. I learned that they were

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Speaker 1: referring to one of the many mountain ranges in Montana,

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Speaker 1: where the Crown Nation is from. The Little People were

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Speaker 1: another race, standing around knee height but contained containing immense strength.

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Speaker 1: They lived in the mountains and attacked those that entered

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Speaker 1: the area. However, some were allowed to pass through if

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Speaker 1: they left an offering of beads or tobacco. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: other way to pass through was to shoot an arrow

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Speaker 1: ahead of you as you passed. The little people also

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Speaker 1: sometimes met with those that went to the mountain to fast.

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Speaker 1: One tail I found was of Chief Plenty Coups meeting

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Speaker 1: them when he was nine. In the Choctaw Nations creation story,

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Speaker 1: it says that the Chickasaw and Choctawl nations came from

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Speaker 1: a great mound, well, not a sacred mountain. The story

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Speaker 1: seems to fit with this as well. Sorry for the

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Speaker 1: long email. I only read about these stories recently, and

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Speaker 1: when your episode came out, it made me think of

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Speaker 1: the bet or Mineho phenomenon. Yeah, thank you for the

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Speaker 1: hours uh and hours and hours of informative entertainment. Best regards, James.

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Speaker 1: This is something I think maybe we uh we could

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Speaker 1: have explored more in the episode, but didn't come up

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Speaker 1: as much. Which is the idea of like myths and

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Speaker 1: religious stories that have mountains as the dwelling place. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not just of the gods, but of like other types

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Speaker 1: of people's or other beings, you know, the mountains being

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Speaker 1: a place of trolls, or the mountains being the place

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Speaker 1: of like the little people. Yeah, this is, this is

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Speaker 1: It would be an interesting avenue to explore more in

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Speaker 1: the future. I mean, I I instantly think two of

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Speaker 1: of goblins and creatures of that nature as well. All right,

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Speaker 1: we have another one here. This one comes to us

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Speaker 1: from him. I'm right Sin and says, hey, guys, I

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Speaker 1: was really surprised to not hear you touch on Mount

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Speaker 1: Sinai in the Sacred Mountains episode. I mean actual or

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Speaker 1: mythical locations that are associated with myths that have wide

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Speaker 1: cultural relevance and staying power. The first thing I think

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Speaker 1: of is Mount Sinai. I'll admit I'm biased in that

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Speaker 1: respect because I'm a former Orthodox Jew, but I understand

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Speaker 1: that it has similar or equal relevance in Christianity and

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Speaker 1: Islam as well. Maybe you didn't touch on it on

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Speaker 1: purpose because it would be too socially or politically controversial

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Speaker 1: to address Abrahamic religions as mythologies that share so many

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Speaker 1: similar themes to lots of ancient belief systems. That's actually

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Speaker 1: what I opened up the podcast hoping to hear the

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Speaker 1: main content be regardless. I really enjoyed the episode and

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Speaker 1: your show in general. Uh. Yeah, Mount Sinai is a

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Speaker 1: great one. Of course. That is for example, in the

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Speaker 1: Book of Exodus, that is where it has said that

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Speaker 1: Moses receives the Ten Commandments on top of Mount Sinai

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Speaker 1: from from God. Um, there was no reason we didn't

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Speaker 1: mention it, I think, get I think it just didn't

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Speaker 1: come up. Yeah, we we just kind of forgot to

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Speaker 1: include it, which is there. There are a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of holy mountains, so yeah, but it is true. This

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Speaker 1: is a this is a huge one of big cultural significance. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I do think like the story of Moses is

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Speaker 1: a sent into Mount Sinai or he you know, he

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Speaker 1: receives the Ten Commandments, and like there is something interesting

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Speaker 1: going on there with like he disappears into the mountain

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Speaker 1: and then what happens to the people while he's gone

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Speaker 1: while they turned to idol worship immediately while while he

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Speaker 1: has disappeared because they're waiting for him to come down.

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Speaker 1: Something's interesting is going on there. I haven't quite thought

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Speaker 1: about how to phrase it, but yeah, absolutely, and and

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Speaker 1: I do want to also just remind everybody, like when

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Speaker 1: we talk about myth and religion on the show. Um,

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Speaker 1: I do hope everyone understands that we you know, we

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Speaker 1: try to discuss mytho, mythology and myth as being is

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Speaker 1: having more weight than simply saying like this is a

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Speaker 1: story made up by people, you know, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not using myth as a pejorative or the way

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Speaker 1: some people sometimes do. Like some will use the word

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Speaker 1: myth to mean like a thing that is a lie, right,

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Speaker 1: something like that. It's not like MythBusters, right, no, no no, no,

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Speaker 1: we're using it in the sense of like a traditional

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Speaker 1: or foundational story, often involving supernatural elements. Right. But what

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Speaker 1: a different show MythBusters would have been if that was

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Speaker 1: the cell Like we're gonna go after another myth this

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Speaker 1: this this a week, it's Prometheus the stories bs and

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Speaker 1: then they bust it somehow, I don't know. We get

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Speaker 1: some internet commenters that are like that, Like every time

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Speaker 1: we put something up about some interesting mythological topic, somebody

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Speaker 1: chimes in the comments is like fake bs made up.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, like I think you're missing the point a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, well that that tends to happen on like,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of our social media accounts where you

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Speaker 1: maybe have people come in that don't really know the

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Speaker 1: show and then you see something where where like a

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Speaker 1: myth is referenced in the title or the description, and

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Speaker 1: then they kind of react, Yeah, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: are that person and your your yours sending no hard feelings,

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Speaker 1: but but maybe maybe think about don't do that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: certainly we always invite everyone to actually listen to the

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Speaker 1: episodes and respond to the content of the episodes. And

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Speaker 1: along those lines, I mean we we do, uh, we

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Speaker 1: do make mistakes here and there, and that's why we'd

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Speaker 1: love to hear from everybody. We we skip over things

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Speaker 1: by accident, like Mount SINAI. Uh. So you know, we're

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Speaker 1: we're we're on a continuous journey of discovery and self

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Speaker 1: improvement here and and we hope everybody else is engaging

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Speaker 1: with the world, uh with that kind of growth mindset

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Speaker 1: as well. Well. One last thing I'll say is someone

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Speaker 1: who creates nonfiction content, I will say not all omissions

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Speaker 1: are intentional omissions. So like, there's literally no way we

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Speaker 1: can talk about all the sacred mountains in the world

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Speaker 1: in our episode that was you know, a total of

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Speaker 1: however many minutes, so Uh so, I don't know. Always

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Speaker 1: keep that in mind. It's just like sometimes you just

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Speaker 1: picked the things that you pick to talk about because

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Speaker 1: they were interesting and and they're what came up. It's

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Speaker 1: not because you thought everything else should be left out right,

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Speaker 1: and then that's what listener mail episodes are ultimately four

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Speaker 1: to you know, we we hoped and expected to hear

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Speaker 1: from folks with examples of really cool traditions that we

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Speaker 1: uh you know, forgot to cover or just we're not

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Speaker 1: aware of. Like to go back to Adam's peak that

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Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top of this episode, I was

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Speaker 1: not familiar with that Sri lankin Um Holy Mountain until

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Speaker 1: looking at Following the Trail of the Squirrel. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I said, we're continually learning new things and trying

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Speaker 1: to share them with everybody in that spirit of open mindedness.

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Speaker 1: May we now bludge in you with an advertisement. Let's

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Speaker 1: do it, but we will be right back. Thank all right,

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Speaker 1: We're back, and uh, you know, I believe we have

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Speaker 1: some listener mail related to another recent episode, our episode

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Speaker 1: about the imp of the perverse. Right, this is the

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Speaker 1: impulse to do wrong simply for the reason that it's wrong,

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Speaker 1: and no other reason at all. Uh So this comes

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Speaker 1: to us from our listener, Miriam. Miriam says, Hi, Joe

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Speaker 1: and Robert, thank for the great episode The imp of

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Speaker 1: the Perverse. It was very interesting to consider all the

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Speaker 1: various ways this phenomenon can affect our lives. When you

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Speaker 1: talked about intrusive thoughts and the techniques that have been

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Speaker 1: shown to help some people overcome them, I was struck

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Speaker 1: by how closely it mirrored my own experience with a

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Speaker 1: form of O c D called pure Oh it differs

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Speaker 1: from traditional O c D, and of course that's an

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Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive disorder. It differs from traditional O c D

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Speaker 1: in that the compulsion triggered by the intrusive thought is

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Speaker 1: not a physical behavior such as handwashing, but the mental

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Speaker 1: checking of the thought and of the body's visceral responses

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Speaker 1: to it. When you talked about checking on intrusive thoughts

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Speaker 1: and how it leads to a positive feedback loop, I

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Speaker 1: was surprised by how closely you described this disorder without

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Speaker 1: naming it. I believe that the pure O variant of

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Speaker 1: O c D is lesser known and highly insidious, as

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Speaker 1: people can suffer tremendously for a long time without having

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Speaker 1: any visible symptoms that might more easily prompt them or

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Speaker 1: their loved ones to consider seeking professional help. I think

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Speaker 1: better awareness of this disorder could help people understand that

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Speaker 1: the techniques you described, which were exactly what I did

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Speaker 1: in therapy alongside CBT, can really can provide hugely from

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Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts if they begin to take over your life.

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Speaker 1: It's been more than a year since I've been bothered

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Speaker 1: by intrusive thoughts. I believe it's because I was able

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Speaker 1: to forge an entirely different, healthier relationship to my thoughts

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Speaker 1: thanks to practicing CBT and other techniques with my therapist.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to emphasize how important these concepts

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Speaker 1: are for everybody and to say thanks again for talking

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Speaker 1: about them. Cheers, Miriam. Next, Wellent, Well, thanks for sharing

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Speaker 1: that with this, Miriam. Uh. By the way, that's cognitive

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Speaker 1: behavioral therapy for anybody. Yeah yeah, yes, um yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so I actually hadn't really heard of this pure

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Speaker 1: oh form of o c D before, but this is

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting. So, you know, the traditional idea of

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Speaker 1: O c D is that you know, you have repetitive

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Speaker 1: compulsive behaviors uh that are triggered by sort of loops

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Speaker 1: in your mind. You might lock the door a bunch

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Speaker 1: of times, or you might wash your hands a lot,

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Speaker 1: or click you're the clicker on your car exactly fifteen times. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But but this is the idea that you could have

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Speaker 1: the same kind of mental impulses, uh, that that caused

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Speaker 1: you to have sort of like repetitive anxieties and and

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Speaker 1: and revisit these thoughts over and over without having external

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Speaker 1: behaviors that follow from them, and that this could allow

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Speaker 1: the behavior to to just kind of like go on

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Speaker 1: and fester without people noticing that you're having a problem. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm also really glad to hear that that that CBT

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Speaker 1: and and therapy has worked out for you. Miriam. Absolutely

427
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,239
Speaker 1: all right, here's another one. This one is coming to

428
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: us from Eric. Eric writes in and says, dear mind

429
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: blowing folk, thanks for the great show. I started listening

430
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: last year and went back to the archives, all the

431
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: way back to science stuff with Allison and Robert, and

432
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: now I'm up to mid h. I mean, everybody listens

433
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: to the show differently. I tend to advise against starting

434
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: at the beginning and working your way up. I don't know,

435
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: I just I often feel like a lot of the

436
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: topics we we cover, um, the older episodes, you'd run

437
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: into potential problems of the science not being like completely

438
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: up to date. Uh. And then also, you know, we're always,

439
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: we're perpetually hopefully growing and becoming better at this whole

440
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: podcasting thing. So I also worrying, worry about like how, um,

441
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: how I come off and past episodes, you know, um,

442
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: because I feel like some of those early ones were

443
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: kind of rough. It was like a fifteen minute show

444
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: back then. I'm sure you're great, But anyway, I appreciate

445
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: anybody who enjoys the show enough that they're going back

446
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: into the back catalog anyway, um, Eric continues. In the

447
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: episode Jupiter's Children, you asked off handedly whether Ganymedes icy

448
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: surface would be slippery. The answer, in short, is probably not.

449
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Ice on Earth is slippery because when we set foot

450
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: or skate on it, the pressure, friction and high temperature

451
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: of our shoes or eates melts a tiny amount of ice,

452
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: forming a thin layer of water that acts as a

453
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 1: lubricant between you and the ice. On Ganny Meat or Europa, however,

454
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: the ice would be so cold and your space suits

455
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: boots would necessarily have to be so heavily insulated that

456
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: it would not melt and would be about equivalent to

457
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: walking on low density rock or sand. Also, the gravity

458
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: is solo that you wouldn't create very much friction or pressure.

459
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: You mentioned John Scalzes The Forever War. Uh, he actually

460
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: got the science wrong on this in his novel The

461
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: recruits are training on Pluto, and he incorrectly describes the

462
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: surface as covered in frozen hydrogen. In the book, the

463
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: outsides of their suits were warm enough above roughly twenty

464
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: degrees kelvin to cause the frozen hydrogen to boil, which

465
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: made it very slippery. In reality, the surface of Pluto

466
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: is minimum thirty three degrees kelvin, which is far too

467
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: warm for either frozen or liquid hydrogen, although still ridiculously

468
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: cold enough to seasonally have nitrogen snow regin snow. Nice.

469
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: I hope this answer is not redundant, as I'm writing

470
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: about three years after the episode in question aired. All

471
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: the best wishes and keep up the good work, Eric, No,

472
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: this is great feedback. I'm glad to know that I

473
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't fall on my butt on Ganna made. I do

474
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: remember that being a real fun part of the Forever War.

475
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: It was. It was a fun novel to read. Um.

476
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: It kind of makes me want to revisit some of

477
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: these old like Space Soldier, uh, you know, Power Armor

478
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: novels that I was really into for a while. I

479
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: was speaking of those, you know, I was just the

480
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: other day thinking about thinking about Starship Troopers because I've

481
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: never read the Heinland novel, but I recently rewatched the

482
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: movie Paul Verehoven's Starship Troopers. You know, I saw some

483
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: of our fans talking about it on the discussion module

484
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, it's kind of bad, kind

485
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: of good. Disagree. I think it is a masterpiece. It

486
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 1: is one of the best satires in American film history.

487
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: It would I would be interested to to to review

488
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: it and to discuss it, because I saw it when

489
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 1: it first came out, and I remember disliking it. But

490
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that a lot of my dislike

491
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: was me kind of uh, you know, basically buying into

492
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: this story, to my like, expecting it to be a

493
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: humans Are good, Bugs Are Bad kind of story, and

494
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: something felt kind of icky about it. It did. It

495
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: felt it felt icky, and so it was sort of

496
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: working but it was working. But at the time, I thought, well,

497
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: this this movie is broken. I feel icky after watching

498
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: this film. But no, I think it's it's like a

499
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: genius satire. It's essentially I think it is a propaganda

500
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: film made by a future fascist society. Yeah. Absolutely, Um,

501
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: I would need to reread the book because I'm I'm

502
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: a little hazy on all the details. Like the main

503
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: thing I'm remembering is the Bazukas. So there's the power arm. Oh.

504
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: I mentioned it because I thought there was power in

505
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: the novels, but not in the movies. In the movie,

506
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: as I as I remember, there's no power armor in

507
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: the movie. Right. No, that's right. They cut that part

508
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: out because it's it's straight up space marines, uh in

509
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: the in the novel right, straight up Casper van Dean,

510
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: it's all body with him. Okay, let's take a look

511
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: at the next one. How about this one from our

512
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: recurring correspondent Jesser, who's into Egyptian mythology. Oh yes, let's

513
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: hear Okay, So Jesser says, Hi, I wanted to write

514
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: in to share a couple of things related to your

515
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: recent episodes on narratives. That was the one against narratives

516
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: about the possible, you know, negative consequences of our addiction

517
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: to stories, and also about sacred mountains. So Jesser writes

518
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: in the episode You Happen to use a definition of

519
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: story based on conflict. It reminded me of an essay

520
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: I had read called The Significance of Plot Without Conflict.

521
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: It argues that the idea that story needs conflict is

522
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: a limited view of story structure prevalent in Western culture.

523
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: To demonstrate its point, it discusses the Japanese story structure

524
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: called kisho tin ketsu uh. This structure is made up

525
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: of four acts introduction, development, twist, and resolution, where the

526
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: twist acts like a non sequitur, and the resolution brings

527
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: the introduction and the twist into harmony with each other.

528
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: The example they use is a four panel comic a

529
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: girl standing at a vending machine she buys a soda.

530
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: A boy is sitting on a bench. The girl appears

531
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: and gives him a soda. The essay goes on to

532
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: suggest that the focus on stories as conflict in the

533
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: Western perspective leads people to frame things as conflicts even

534
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: when there is none. On my initial read, I was

535
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: skeptical since you could argue in Kisho tin katsu uh

536
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: that it still uses conflict, just in the form of

537
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: conflicting images instead of a literal conflict. But if the

538
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: narratives we make affects the way we see the world,

539
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: maybe by thinking that conflict is necessary to narrative, we

540
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: make ourselves more prone to see ourselves in conflict with others. Interesting.

541
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, this makes me think of the Miyazaki film

542
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: My Neighbor Totoro um. I don't know to what extent

543
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: this lines up with that, but like Totoro is a

544
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: film that when I watched it before becoming a parent,

545
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: I found it kind of kind of boring and and

546
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: and long, you know, beautiful, but also just kind of

547
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: drawn out and devoid of of much in the way

548
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: of conflict. But I've kind of seen it through my

549
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: son's eyes and now I love it, you know. I

550
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: put it right up there with with NAUSICAA is my

551
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: favorite Miyazaki film. Nasca, of course, is a film that

552
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: has lots of conflict. But Totoro, I mean there's there

553
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: is the plot element about the younger the younger child

554
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: running away and there being some concern over if she's

555
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: okay and having to find her, and then there's concerns

556
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: over the mother's uh illness and her recovering from it.

557
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's completely devoid of conflict,

558
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: depending on how you want to Oh no, I I

559
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: say that's definitely not without conflict, because I mean, when

560
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: you think about the role that conflict plays in narrative,

561
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: at least the way I would see it, this is

562
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: what I think I said in the previous episode is

563
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: that you know, what it is is that a character

564
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: that you come to identify with emotionally faces some kind

565
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: of obstacle or problem that they have to overcome, and

566
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: so this is some kind of conflict. It could be

567
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: an actual fight, you know, a conflict, like a violent conflict,

568
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: but it doesn't need to be. It could just be

569
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: that there's something they want to know and they don't

570
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: know it yet, so they need to find out where

571
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: it could be that they maybe, you know, they're all

572
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: these relationship stories. They are in love with somebody or

573
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: they want to be friends with somebody or something like that,

574
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: and it's not working out at first. So conflict doesn't

575
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: to me imply necessarily like violence or anything like that.

576
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: But it's but it does kind of feel like they're

577
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: they're sort of conflict with a capital C, especially in

578
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: Western traditions, where it's got to be like that Disney

579
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: movie conflict where somebody dies or is or it's you know,

580
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: it's it's it's mythic in the sense that somebody's kidnapped

581
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: by say a tin headed demon king. But if the if,

582
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: the if the conflict is is more of you know,

583
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: subtle it's like you know, maze feelings about her mother

584
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: and totoro, uh, that sort of thing, like it's it

585
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: seems like a slightly different animal. I mean, likewise, to

586
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: go back to this example of of the girl standing

587
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: by a vending machine buying a soda, a boy setting

588
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: on a bench, and then a girl appears to give

589
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: him a soda, like arguably to their point, you know,

590
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: this could be seen as conflict like she she perhaps

591
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: it says, oh, there's somebody without a soda I should share,

592
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: and that that in and of itself, there's a problem

593
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: to resolve, problem that needs to be resolved, some sort

594
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: of growth that needs to take place within that character. Yeah,

595
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm I'm totally open to the idea that there are

596
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: are other forms of narratives. I mean, I still do.

597
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: When I look at stuff like this, it does seem

598
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: to me like there is there is like empathy with

599
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: characters and a desire to resolve some kind end of obstacle.

600
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: I mean, even when I think about this, this four

601
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: panel comic, I start imagining things like that. So maybe

602
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: that's just me projecting on it, but I start to imagine,

603
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: um a subtextual conflict where the boy sitting alone on

604
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: the bench was lonely, and now this girl appears and

605
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: gives him a soda, and now there's a friendship, which

606
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: is a kind of resolution of a psychic conflict. Right,

607
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: Or if you just really you get the thing about

608
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 1: narrative that you can just really go hog wild with it, right,

609
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: and you can say she's a vampire. She never intended

610
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: to drink that soda. She bought that soda in order

611
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: to gain the boys trust so that she might drain

612
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: his vital essence. But I'm obviously reading way too much

613
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: into it. Well yeah, I mean, obviously we want to

614
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: read conflicts into it. But this is a really good point.

615
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: Maybe thinking of narrative in terms of conflict is somehow

616
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: limiting or or I don't know. You've definitely given me

617
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: something to think about, so thank you, Jesser. But the

618
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: email is not over. As usual, Jesser has something to

619
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: say about Egyptian mythology, so uh, the listener continues here.

620
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: You also made passing reference to cyclical and linear time,

621
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: and I can't pass up an opportunity to share a

622
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: fact about ancient Egypt. Robert, I know you love cyclical

623
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: and linear time, so strap in here. The Egyptian language

624
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: has two terms for eternity, depending on whether you were

625
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: talking about eternity in cyclical nine or linear diet time.

626
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: In the Search for God in Ancient Egypt, Jan Osman

627
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: described the dual eternity ees quote, it is often said

628
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: of nine time that it comes. It is time as

629
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: an incessantly pulsating stream of days, months, seasons, and years.

630
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: Yet time, however, remains, lasts and endures. And then Yesser says,

631
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: for bonus points, nene could be an idiophone for repetition.

632
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: An interesting yeah. In your episode about Sacred Mountains, you

633
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: mentioned the myth of king like Haon feeding human flesh

634
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: to Zeus and the evidence that sugg Us there was

635
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: once human sacrifice to Zeus on Mountain, like ka On.

636
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Maybe the myth was a bit of pr work on

637
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: the part of the priests of Zeus like Chaos, explaining

638
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: why Zeus used to take human sacrifices, but reassuring us

639
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: that it was a mistake, not a bad theory. Yeah.

640
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: In fact, I've read about theories like this before, and

641
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: not things that are known for sure, but like the

642
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: idea that religions that have animal sacrifices often they be

643
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: over time. They came in as a sort of substitute

644
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: for a previous practice of human sacrifice, and there's often

645
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: a myth saying like why the god does not accept

646
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: human sacrifices anymore. It's like the priests are like working

647
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: over time to say like, that's not the deal anymore.

648
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost perfectly there. Again, not knowing that

649
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: this is the correct explanation, but it's a very interesting

650
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: way of interpreting, like the binding of Isaac. Yeah again

651
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: it is. We've We've discussed in the show before. It's

652
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: important to realize that that religions and mythologiculture to sans

653
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: evolved there. They are not set in stone. Okay, one

654
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: last thing from Jesser here, Jesser says. Also, the book

655
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: Banner in the Sky, written in the nineteen fifties by

656
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: the mountaineer James Ramsey Ullman, features third man syndrome as

657
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: a plot point. While climbing the mountain alone, the young

658
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: protagonist Rudy feels as though he's being followed by some

659
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: sort of demon or spirit, but as he overcomes his

660
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: initial fear, he comes to think of it as if

661
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: it's his father's ghost guiding him. I always thought it

662
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: was just symbolic, but maybe it was inspired by actual experience.

663
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the work you put into making the

664
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: podcast so consistently interesting and insightful, your pseudonymous Egyptologist Jesser, Well,

665
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much. As usual, great email. Awesome. Yeah,

666
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: I got to touch on several different episodes that we've

667
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: covered recently in that one. Alright, Well, on that note,

668
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna take one more break, but when we come back,

669
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: we have even more listener mail to share with you.

670
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: Thank thank Alright, we're back. This one comes to us

671
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: about our Sender Raven episode or send an Owl's into

672
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: pigeon uh into this from our listener, Anna, Anna says, Hi,

673
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: Robert and Joe I love your podcast, and I'm listening

674
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: to your other podcast, Invention and enjoying that too. See

675
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: Anna's enjoying it. If you're not listening yet, you should

676
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: get on that. Go over there subscribe to Invention. Absolutely.

677
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: Uh so, Anna says, I've gotten a little behind on

678
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: my podcast. I just listen to your episode about the

679
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: use of birds as messengers. You're not that behind. That

680
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: was just like last week. Yeah. Um, I do not

681
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: know about other birds used as a messenger, but I

682
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: do remember a fact about other uses for ravens. Perhaps

683
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: other fans have emailed you about this already, they had not, Anna,

684
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: Anna says ravens are part of Vikings slash Norse mythology,

685
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: but apparently Vikings also had a real world use for

686
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: ravens too. In this case, they're short flying range that

687
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: you spoke of in the episode came to the advantage

688
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: of the Vikings. When the Vikings were out on a

689
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: long sea voyage, they would send out a raven, and

690
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: if the raven came back, they knew they were far

691
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: from land. If the raven did not come back, they

692
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: knew the raven must have landed and they would soon

693
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: find land. Maybe there is a link with the biblical

694
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: story of the arc. Perhaps Noah sent out a raven

695
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: to see if the flood was over. Remember in the

696
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: in the story of Noah's Ark, before he sends out

697
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: the doves, he sends out a raven. Then it just

698
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: never says what happened with the ravend And I just

699
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: wanted to add, yeah, this is actually a part of

700
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: the letter. I don't know if this is historically factual

701
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: or if it's just part of the legend, but either way,

702
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: the story of the discovery of Iceland or maybe not

703
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: the discovery, like the first deliberate journey to Iceland by

704
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: a Viking sea voyager, it was that ravens were used

705
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: to locate Iceland from out in the sea. And it

706
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: seems to me like that might probably work because the

707
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: idea is, you know, like you have a crow's nest

708
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: in a boat to get up there and see farther

709
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: to see if you can find land. If you allow

710
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: a bird to fly up, it can go way up

711
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: in the sky and and look around for land, and

712
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: if it sees something, then you're in luck. Sort of

713
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: like extending your crow's nest like hundreds of feet Uh. Anyway,

714
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Anna continues. Another random fact I learned recently is that

715
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: recent research shows that all birds originally evolved from Australia.

716
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Now I think, and I think this is actually a

717
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: typo here. I think she meant to say all songbirds

718
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: originated from Australia. Because I looked this up, I couldn't

719
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: find evidence about all birds, but all songbirds did evolve

720
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: from a common ancestor in Australia. And songbirds, of course

721
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: are a huge subset of all birds, comprising the clade Passeri.

722
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: In their line did originally come from Australia about twenty

723
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: four million years ago. So I think that's what she meant,

724
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: She continues. I learned this on a podcast by Dr

725
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: Carl Cruisel Nikki cruizal Nikki. Here in Australia, we just

726
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: call him Dr Carl. Sounds kind of sketchy, but I

727
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: looked him up and he looks legit. I like Dr Carl.

728
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: She says. He has a few podcasts, he's written something

729
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: like fifty books, and he's been declared a National Treasure

730
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: of Australia. He's even won an ig Nobel Prize. There,

731
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: I enjoy your scientific approach, an open minded skepticism. And

732
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: I think Dr Carl has some of the same approach

733
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: keep up the good work and uh uh so I

734
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: wasn't familiar with Dr Carl, but I read a bit

735
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 1: on him. He sounds interesting and apparently he's affected by prosopagnosia,

736
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: which we've talked about, yeah, on the show before, and

737
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: he's got like strategies for how to identify people interesting.

738
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: I should mention, as long as we're talking about that

739
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: Sender Raven episode. Somebody on the the Stuffable in your

740
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: Mind discussion module, which of course is our our Facebook

741
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: discussion group, which is really the the the only place

742
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: if you want to um, you know, interact with us

743
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: on social media or of course interact with plenty of

744
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: other listeners. But somebody brought up that Frank Herbert's Dune

745
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: features a plot element in which the Freeman, the the

746
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: the the sort of nomadic people of Iracus use bats

747
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: to send messages, and i'd completely yeah, I've read Dune

748
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: like multiple times and and it is if you listen

749
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: to the show. You know, I am usually not shy

750
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: about thrown in a Dune reference, but I completely spaced

751
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: on the bats. Totally makes sense on a Racus, they

752
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: can cross distances without the threat of worms, right if

753
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: they can fly? Yeah, but maybe we should come back

754
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: and do an add on to that episode and look

755
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: at the bats, yeah you know it or any inats

756
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: that come up, messenger bats, could you know, could it

757
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: be done? What? What? We just we should approach them

758
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: as well and sort of you know, a tack on

759
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: a segment to that episode. Speaking of things that fly.

760
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: We also got an email from a listener named Christian.

761
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: Not our former co host Christian, but a listener Christian

762
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: about Cupid's Lead arrows. That was a fun episode, Yeah, yeah,

763
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: where we talked about Cupid and this like the mythological

764
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: use of lead, and then also we just got into

765
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: lead itself. But Christian writs in and says, hey, guys,

766
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: I'm listening to Cupid's Lead an arrow and heard one

767
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: of you say that you wouldn't want a lead hammer.

768
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: In fact, I have one. What I think that was

769
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: me that said it, But I mean it makes us

770
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: lead as kind of soft. If you're beating something with

771
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: lead for a long time, would probably deformed the hammer head.

772
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: When we were talking about you have the limits of

773
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: using lead in in in weaponry, yeah, uh, anyway, Christian

774
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: continues quote. British cars from the sixties frequently had wheels

775
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: attached using a spinner basically a large single lug nut

776
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: at the center of the hub. A lead faced hammer

777
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: is used to remove the spinner by whacking the blades

778
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: that protrude out from the center of the cab. Because

779
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: the lead is soft, this doesn't damage the chrome finish

780
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: of the spinner. Okay, as always keep up the good work, Christian,

781
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: I stand corrected. Lead hammer is totally a thing there

782
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: you go, not so much for whacking skulls, but when

783
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: you need, but when you need a subtle approach as

784
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: as clearly as the case with the with these spinners.

785
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: You know, I do want to say that I'm sure

786
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 1: you could probably hurt somebody really bad with the lead hammer.

787
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: It's not that like it wouldn't I mean would be heavy.

788
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: You could still hurt somebody. It just probably wouldn't hold

789
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: up over time, right, And of course the weaponry and

790
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: the history of military technology, it's about usually about inflicting

791
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: the most harm and then also having uh you know,

792
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: some sort of durability to the weapons you've created, right, Okay.

793
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Quick email from our listener Emily In response to the

794
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: bugs under the Skin episode, Emily says, Hey, I'm sure

795
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: you've been sent this already, but just in case you haven't,

796
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: regarding bugs under the skin, check this out. She sends

797
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: a link. It's a link to the story that you

798
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: may have seen already about the woman who had four

799
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: bees living under her eyelid eating her tears. Did you

800
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: come across this everywhere? Right after our episode came out? Everywhere?

801
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: I found her right up in the Atlantic by Hailey

802
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: weiss Uh. Just to read a quick quote from it,

803
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: beastings hurt like hell, but there's a reason to consider

804
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: yourself lucky if a venomous prick is the worst you've

805
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: suffered from bees. Last week, Taiwan CTS News Channel reported

806
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: the twenty nine year old woman had gone out for

807
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: a walk in the mountains and returned home with I

808
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: pain that wouldn't go away. The next day, an optimologist

809
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: hold four bees, all still alive, from under her right eyelid.

810
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: So the stories they were living under her right eyelid

811
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: and they've been feeding on her tears. A little later

812
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: in the article, quote as Hung Cheating, who treated the

813
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: woman at Fuyan University Hospital in Taiwan explained at a

814
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: press conference, these dark colored bees were ant size members

815
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: of the family known as how lick. Today, colloquially they're

816
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: called sweat bees, named after one of their favorite foods.

817
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: And apparently these insects are attracted to our protein and

818
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: sodium rich body fluids like sweat, but they like tears

819
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: even more than sweat because tears are more nutrient rich.

820
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: There's something almost mythological about this, right, just the idea

821
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: of like the bees feasting on her tears and living

822
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: in her eyes. Um Like, I think the first time

823
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: I saw it, after our episode came out, I kind

824
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: of dismissed it. I'm like, nope, that that can't be right.

825
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 1: That just sounds too too perfect. Somehow, it's just too

826
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: there's too much um structural integrity to the idea. It

827
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: couldn't have actually have happened, but it seems like it happened.

828
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: That it's been covered enough. Yeah, it's one of those

829
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: times where reality feels like a story. Yeah, all right.

830
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: We have a couple of bits of listener mail that

831
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: came in about our our episodes and f a of

832
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: the fundamental attribution error. Uh, those were some I think

833
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: some very thought provoking episodes and fun. I think we

834
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: really put the fun in fundamental attribution here. I think

835
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: so too, Now, quick refresher, that's just are sort of

836
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: bias or tendency to um over ascribe things to people's

837
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 1: fundamental internal qualities and under ascribed behaviors to people's unique

838
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: situations and moment to moment, right, Like a rough version

839
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: would be like those those people who ate those other

840
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: people in the mountains. Uh, they turned to cannibalism because

841
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: they are cannibals, as opposed to saying they turned to

842
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: cannibalism because they were in like a really harsh environmental

843
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: condition and we're in a high stress survival situation. Yeah,

844
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: and that's an extreme version. But well, and of course

845
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: all behaviors are explained by both, you know, internal qualities

846
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: and external factors, but we just tend to over emphasize

847
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: internal qualities when we assess why things happen, right, certainly

848
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: in the West. Yeah, So our listener Justin wrote in,

849
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: and first of all, Justin recommended that we do an

850
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: episode on the name of the Rose. I think that's

851
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: an interesting idea. Oh yeah, it's one of my favorite

852
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: books you've recently read. It and uh and I also

853
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: really dig the movie, and there's a new adaptation coming

854
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: out with John Taturo as a brother Williams. I can't

855
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: wait to see that. But yeah, I loved this book also.

856
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: I will say it's one of the few mystery stories

857
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: I've read where the ending solution to the mystery is

858
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: actually truly satisfying. Usually I feel like the end of

859
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: a mystery is a letdown. Uh. Not so with the

860
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: name of the Rose. But anyway, so yeah, I think

861
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: that's a great idea. We may come back to that

862
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: in the future. But then Justin wrote with it, Oh,

863
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 1: you know what, I put this in the wrong place

864
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,479
Speaker 1: in our outline. So we do have some emails about

865
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: fundamental attribution error. Will get to in a minute. This

866
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: one actually is in response to our narrative episode. Uh,

867
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: so fa the explanation we just gave. Put that on

868
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 1: hold for the fun is on the way, But first

869
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: a little more narrative. Okay, So Justin Wrights, thank you

870
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: so much for your cast on storytelling. As a guy

871
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: developing new drugs to treat bacterial infections, the notion of

872
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: storytelling is heavily marketed for scientists and also for venture capitalists.

873
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: Story is important, but selectively as a tactic. Unfortunately, what

874
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: we've seen in the industry is that fundraising dollars are

875
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: flowing from venture capitalists to companies that have spent many

876
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: years and tremendous effort on developing good stories, rather than

877
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: dedicate that heavily time intensive effort on the science and

878
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: understanding of disease biology of the drug they are trying

879
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: to develop. The result of this behavior is that these

880
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: quote unquote over storied biotech companies are largely, with few exceptions,

881
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: creating drugs that are marginal improvements on existing treatments, and

882
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: because they soak up so much of the venture capital funding,

883
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: they indirectly harm more innovative company is with novel solutions

884
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: to significant and long standing, unaddressed problems in medicine. Tactically,

885
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: I've made a time for my company to delay creating

886
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: and marketing the story of our technology until the final

887
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: animal study comes in to confirm as UH as such

888
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: without reasonable doubt. Thank you so much. I hope this

889
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: was thought provoking. Best justin, Well, that's interesting justin to

890
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: hear from you in the industry. I think you're exactly

891
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: right that like of course, stories are huge in marketing,

892
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: and something I often recognize as you know, it's not

893
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: just going to be in biotechnology and uh and and

894
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, developing new pharmaceuticals and all that. It's in

895
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of industries. That I noticed that the free

896
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: market often tends to invite people to focus as much

897
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: or more on marketing a product as they do on

898
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: coming up with a good product to begin with. And

899
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: the huge part of that marketing is trying to tell

900
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: a story. Well, yeah, I mean, certainly this is the

901
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: case in advertising. I caught an ad just the other

902
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: day for a medic cation I think it was for

903
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: It was something to do with digestion and bowels and

904
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: and it was like a couple and they were trying

905
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: to decide whether to go this way or that way,

906
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: but thanks to the medication, they were able to go

907
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: across a giant rope bridge. And I mean, it's I

908
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: have to admire. It's like there's some subtle storytelling there

909
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: that makes the whole advertisement more memorable and makes you

910
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: place the problem and the solution that they're marketing within

911
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: the context of story. Well, ultimately, what a lot of

912
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: these advertisers are trying to do is not advertise the

913
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: inherent superiority of the product they're selling. They're trying to

914
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: get you to associate their brand name with a good

915
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: feeling that you got from watching a story. Yeah, and

916
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: also I can't this is kind of slightly unrelated, but

917
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: you know, it reminds me of another great or awful

918
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: use of storytelling is is in you know, scare tactics. Um,

919
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, generally in the case of you know, propaganda

920
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: about uh you know, um you know, given uh, you know,

921
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: perceived threat or something that they that that people want

922
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: you to perceive as a threat, you place it within

923
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: the confines of son probably unbelievable awful story uh you know,

924
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: be it, you know, somebody taking you know, too many

925
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: drugs and trying to force their way through a keyhole

926
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: or something to that extent, you know, uh, um, you know,

927
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: or worse examples that we don't even want to get

928
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: into on the show. But uh, they're trying to use

929
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: the you know, the the dark art of narrative to

930
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: influence people's thoughts and opinions. Well. As we discussed in

931
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: the episode, Yeah, constantly, narrative is used to short circuit people,

932
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: people's better judgment or rational evaluation of evidence. I mean,

933
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: if if you don't have the evidence on your side,

934
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 1: just tell a good story, you might convince people. Anyway.

935
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm not advising people to do that. I'm saying that

936
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: is how it often works. All right, let's get to

937
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: the fund though, let's get to the fundamental attribution error. Well,

938
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: this one combines the last two topics. So this is

939
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: uh an email about fundamental attribution error and end our

940
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: episode about narratives. So it is from Amelia. Amelia says, yes,

941
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: it's Amelia again. I think Amelia wrote us a lot

942
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: of emails about Highlander, maybe if I remember so. She says,

943
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: sorry for all the emails these last few months. I

944
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: vowed after I wrote about how Yep Okay, I vowed

945
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: after I wrote in about Highlander that i'd cut back.

946
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: It's okay, you can email UM. I don't want my

947
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: emails to get in the way of new writers or

948
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: other great ideas. However, your recent podcasts on questioning of

949
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: narrative and the phenomenon of fundamental attribution error coincide with

950
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: my specific area of study. I'll try to keep it short.

951
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: And you're against narrative podcasts, You brought up very good

952
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: points about how the role of story making can promote

953
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: faulty perceptions, for example, the notion of the isolated self

954
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: and the bias for pattern interpretation. Narrative structures can be

955
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: blamed for perpetuating concepts like these, concepts which often on

956
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: closer inspection, don't necessarily map onto our scientific knowledge. Having

957
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: said that, I want to muddy the waters by arguing

958
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: that narrative, especially fiction, builds cognitive fortitude against the FAE fallacy.

959
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: Subverting fae I argue is one of the primary reasons

960
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: we not only need narratives but continually construct them. FAE

961
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: as an evolutionary development is inhospitable if contemplating its isolating

962
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: qualities as a human being or beings incapable of escaping

963
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: FA to promote a cohesive community would, by Darwin's estimation,

964
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: fail to thrive. Narrative structures, to that end, provide an

965
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: evolutionary benefit by encouraging the unification of human minds through

966
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 1: the projection of self into alternative forms of perception and circumstance.

967
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: This projection is possible with nonfiction, but the array of

968
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: situational circumstances fiction permits is limited. Only by mankind's imagination.

969
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 1: Following that line of thought, fiction arguably encapsulates as much

970
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: of the situational human experience as can be imagined or projected.

971
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: In this sense, the more a person reads from a

972
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: fictional perspective of the stronger their capacity to cognitively navigate

973
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: past the impulse of fa intuition. It's interesting to contemplate

974
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: the evolution of myth and narrative is a cognitive defense

975
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: against f a E. Though I haven't found any hard

976
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: evidence of this anyway. Just wanted to share this idea

977
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: and happy podcasting, best Amelia. Uh, that is an interesting idea.

978
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure how you'd prove something like that,

979
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: but it is a sort of interpretive framework that that

980
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: that piques my interest. Yeah, what if? Uh? Fiction? Because

981
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: we should remember one thing that does appear to be

982
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: sort of true at least. There's some evidence of this

983
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: in social psychology, that that manipulating perspectives can help people

984
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: overcome fundamental attribution error, Like if you put put somebody

985
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: in somebody else's shoes, you know, almost literally, like you

986
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: give them their perspective on a situation or a room.

987
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: That's actually my new um box subscription service that I'm

988
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: offering is that you you get a copy of Moby

989
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: Dick and they come with a paradish males shoes, So

990
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: you get to read the book well literally being in

991
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: ishmail shoes. Well you all, but you do get to

992
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: be in Ishmail's shoes a little bit because you're you're

993
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: hearing his first person perspective in the story. Uh. That

994
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: is sort of what I think fiction does. I mean,

995
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: one one good quality of fiction is that it puts

996
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: you in somebody else's mind. It's an imagine to mind,

997
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: but I mean it works pretty much the same way

998
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: you inhabit this other character. You see the world from

999
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: their perspective, and then you see the way that their

1000
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: reactions to things are changed and charged by circumstance. Yeah,

1001
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 1: and you're privy to sort of a lot of things.

1002
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, well, it's it's often such an interesting experience

1003
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: to read a first person account that encapsulately two inside

1004
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: of a you know, a very flawed character, or or

1005
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: you know a character that is um uh that is

1006
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: perhaps that even you know an antagonist. Uh there. I

1007
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: mean another thing that I think is kind of interesting

1008
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: is that what the one of the things that the

1009
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: best fiction does is that it balances dispositional versus situational

1010
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: factors in the characters. Like you can have sort of

1011
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: one dimensional characters that are overly dispositional. They're just like

1012
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: a pure quality and they always do that thing and

1013
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: there's no complexity to them. And then you, on the

1014
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: other hand, you've got characters that are might often be

1015
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,439
Speaker 1: called like ciphers, that don't really have any qualities. They're

1016
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: just sort of reacting to the world in a way

1017
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: that's entirely situational and they have no personality. And like,

1018
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,959
Speaker 1: good characters are in between these, right, Like they've got

1019
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: fundamental characteristics, but they they're complex, they're nuanced, they change

1020
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: according to circumstance. Yeah, you know, all this reminds me.

1021
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: It's been a while since I thought about this, but

1022
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: there was this was like a blog I think that

1023
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: I was following years and years ago, and the individual

1024
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: that that was maintaining the blog had kind of I

1025
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: think that they had a very like physical career prior

1026
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: and then they were blogging, you know, kind of after

1027
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: that had come to a close, and then they it

1028
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: they were also blogging about their reading, like they basically

1029
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: it sounded like maybe the individual had not read a

1030
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: lot previously and they're kind of like a late bloomer

1031
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: in a literary sense. And I remember when they talked

1032
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: about having read a first person narrative for the first time,

1033
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: like they had not read the first person uh novel

1034
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: uh and uh. At the time, I was, you know,

1035
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: maybe a little I was like, what, really, had you

1036
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: never you know, read that before? But but you know,

1037
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: it's making me think, like what would that be, Like

1038
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was like to read a

1039
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: first person uh, you know, narrative for the first time.

1040
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: It was just kind of like always there. But it

1041
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: would be kind of magical, I guess, And I imagine

1042
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: picking it up and having never read that before. We're

1043
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: used to it. But it is a strange way of

1044
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: inducing kind of an altered state of consciousness. It's like you,

1045
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, you get to transport your mind into a

1046
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: certain degree. This happens with any good fiction, is that

1047
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: there's sort of there's this identification process where you come

1048
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: to empathize with the fictional character. Their goals sort of

1049
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: become your goals, their wishes become your wishes. You feel

1050
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: what they feel. But even more so in the first

1051
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: person perspective than in even like a close third. Yeah,

1052
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: it reminds me. I'm currently reading um Food of the

1053
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: Gods by Terence McKenna, and there's a bit where he's

1054
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: was talking about just how I was talking about language

1055
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,479
Speaker 1: and about how we're it is just invisible to us,

1056
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: you know, and he's talking about other things that are

1057
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: in our lives that influence our behavior, that they are

1058
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: invisible to us. That with you know, we just don't

1059
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: we don't think about them, we don't notice them, but

1060
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: they are defining the nature of our reality. Culture is

1061
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: mostly invisible and as you stop to think about it,

1062
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, language, language constantly amazes me. It's one of

1063
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 1: those things that I wish every day I could remind

1064
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: myself to stop and appreciate how bizarre and magical language is. Yeah,

1065
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: but but it it's so easy to to just keep

1066
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,959
Speaker 1: going and just breathe it and breathe it out without

1067
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 1: thinking about the breath that you're taking. All right, Well,

1068
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna go and close it out right there. That's

1069
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 1: that's your allotment of listener mail for the month or so.

1070
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: But we'll be back. And as as always, we do

1071
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: not we don't have time to respond to everybody that

1072
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: writes in. We we don't have the space to uh

1073
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: to feature every bit of listener mail that comes in.

1074
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: But we we really do appreciate it all, but we

1075
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: do read it all. So so don't you know, never

1076
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: feel like you're you're just throwing your missive into the

1077
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: void here. Uh. And like I say, it's part of

1078
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: part of our way of you know, it's it's a

1079
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: communication between us and uh and our listeners. It's a

1080
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: way for us to continue to grow, uh, for us

1081
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, correct anything that needs to be corrected. Uh.

1082
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: But but generally it's more it's it's more additive in nature.

1083
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: It's like we get to bring in your experiences, your

1084
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: specialized knowledge and experiences uh to uh to to better

1085
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: understand these topics that we're discussing on the show. Yeah,

1086
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: we love all the stuff we hear from you. Also,

1087
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: please keep it coming. Oh hey, and I have just

1088
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: one little insert I want to throw row in here

1089
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: doing this post recording, but I want to remind everybody

1090
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: that the World Science Festival is coming up. Ah, yes, yeah,

1091
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: the World Science Festival. This is the annual celebration of

1092
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: science and the Arts, which takes place May two through

1093
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: June two in New York City. So Yeah join in

1094
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: for this year's festival to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of

1095
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: the confirmation of Einstein's theory of relativity with over sixty

1096
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: events that take science out of the lab and into

1097
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: the streets, parks, museums, and premier performing arts venues of

1098
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: New York City. The festival kicks off with light falls

1099
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: and original work for the stage on Mayo, which will

1100
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: portray Einstein's general theory of relativity, followed by eye opening discussions,

1101
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: vibrant debates, mind expanding explorations, powerful theatrical works, works, insightful films,

1102
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: hands on experiments, and major outdoor experiences. Again May through

1103
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: June two, festivalgoers of all ages will join the world's

1104
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: leading thinkers for an unforgettable celebration of science that's sure

1105
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: to inspire and excite. I am going to be there

1106
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: in attendance myself. In the meantime, you can check out

1107
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: more episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind at stuff

1108
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. That's where we'll find

1109
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: all the episodes. Links out to uh such as two

1110
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: places like our our discussion module group on Facebook. There's

1111
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: also that T shirt store where you can uh you

1112
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: can check out our our our various squirrel shirts that

1113
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: are currently for sale. Oh and I also want to

1114
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,439
Speaker 1: mention at the top of this episode, I I talked

1115
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: about the the sacred squirrel and Hindu traditions. I read

1116
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: about that in a wonderful little book titled Sacred Animals

1117
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: of India by Nandatha Krishna. Uh. It's available. Um, you

1118
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: can get it online. It's available as an e book

1119
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: or it's a physical book. UH, it's a it's a fun,

1120
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: little little read. I highly recommend it. Awesome, huge thanks

1121
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and

1122
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: Tari Harrison. If you would like to get in touch

1123
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: with us to uh let us know feedback on this episode,

1124
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for us to cover in the future,

1125
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: just to say hello, let us know you know, how

1126
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: you found out about the show, all that kind of stuff.

1127
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: You can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1128
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1129
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios. How Stuff Works. For more

1130
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1131
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows