1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and 2 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: welcome to Who Did What Now? The history podcast That's 3 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: not your history class with me, your host Kerti Charlwood, 4 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: history harlot and reader of books. Before I get into 5 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: any part of this episode, we have to start off 6 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: with the disclosure. I, as a general rule, tend to 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: teach history in the same manner in which I speak 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: in my daily life, which means I use colloquial terms, 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: I use layman's language, and you know, I often swear 10 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: like a sailor. So if you aren't keen on you know, 11 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: curse words, swearing and the like, this is not the 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: fucking podcast for you, and I am I gonna suggest 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: that you go listen to something else, like by the 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: History Channel, because because unlike me, they won't say shit, 15 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: fuck or bollocks, and they're back to your regular broadcast. 16 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: So yeah, it has been an amazing couple of weeks, 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: and I'm actually so excited to really get into this 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: month's series of videos because we just finished on the 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: five canonical Victims of Jack the Ripper and which was 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: incredibly gruelling and labor intensive and kind of depressing, which 21 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: you'll find a lot of history is just incredibly depressing. 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: So I do try and find the little fun pieces 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: here and there. But yes, the five canonical Victims of 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper is a story that I think very 25 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: much needs to be told, but it does. It does 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: take a toll to the point where I had edited 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: about half of it and I just needed a break 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: and couldn't do it for a while. And now we're 29 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: moving on to you know, hopefully I can get some 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: really hopeful of history because it is. 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: Pride Month and I really want to share stories of 32 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: like amazing people and just their lives, because that's what matters. 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: That's what history is. It's about people, not just about 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: battles and fucking planes. What is it? What is it 35 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: with modern men and their obsession with tanks? I don't, 36 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't care. I really don't care about tanks. 37 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Will I go look at tanks if I'm in a museum, Yes, 38 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: Do I necessarily give a fuck about it? Now? No, 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: they really don't. But I'll go look at it because 40 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: history is interesting because a person drove that tank, a 41 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: person was in it, the actual tank itself not really 42 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: that bothered. Oh and in personal news. I made some 43 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: amazing friends in Gaya, as you know, and one of 44 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: them is actually coming to visit me one of the fawns. 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm so excited we're gonna have like the best time. 46 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: I've been working on sample chapters to send off to 47 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: the publishing agents, so that's been exciting. And I've had 48 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: a lot of weird people trying to like hire me. 49 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how to put it. It's like they 50 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: keep saying collab with us, and it's like, no, you 51 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: want me to use your service and not get paid. No, 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: pay me for my work, or I'm not going to 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: do it, Like I don't see why that's a controversial issue. 54 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: Like anyway, I'm not going to get into it too much. 55 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, I've had a lot of angry, angry men 56 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: in my comments recently whenever I call men out for 57 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: doing crappy things. And I was talking about this the 58 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: other day and a lot of boy goes to me, Mom, 59 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: I don't say that because I'm a boy, And I'm like, 60 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: but are you doing mean things to make other people 61 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: around you feel bad? Are you doing like naughty stuff? 62 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: Are you saying mean things to people? And he's like, no, well, 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: then you don't have to worry because you're kind. I'm 64 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: considerate and empathetic. I get messages from my kids' school 65 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: to tell me of the many kind things my child 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: has done, like because he has gone out of his 67 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: way to ensure that somebody was okay and that somebody 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: wasn't hurt and all this stuff. So yeah, I raised 69 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: really empathetic children. They're just not empathetic to me, which 70 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: some of you won't know if you've heard Baby on 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: her as my co host, my co host. Oh but Bubby, 72 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: he'll probably be coming in at some point as well. 73 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, quit 74 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: your jibber jabber in fact me, In fact you I will. 75 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: But first we've got to get our source on. Our 76 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: sources are The Strange Story of Doctor James Barry by 77 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: Isabelle ray Rim, The Tale of a Pioneering Military Surgeon 78 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: by Robert Leach, The repeated Female Army Surgeon Letter from 79 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: Deputy Inspector Bradford by Edward Bradford. That's in the Medical 80 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: Times in Gazette. The Secret Life of Doctor James Barry, 81 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: Victorian England's most eminent surgeon by Rachel Holmes. Doctor James 82 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: Barry the early years revealed by Michael Hercules Duprez in 83 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: the South African Medical Journal. The Male Military Surgeon who 84 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: Wasn't by Stephanie Penn. The Reputed Female Army Surgeon letter 85 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: from dj C. Cookworthy in the Medical Times. In Gazette again, 86 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: Doctor James Barry, a woman ahead of her Time by 87 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: Jeremy Dronfield and Michael Duprez. Neo Victorian Biographilia and James 88 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: Miranda Barry, a study in transgender and trans genre by 89 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: Anne Heilman. And of course we have our favorite history 90 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: dot com and biography dot com. Now are you sitting 91 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: comfortably good? Then let's begin. This episode is actually dedicated 92 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: to Audre, who hasn't been a long time follower and 93 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, just deserves, just deserves a little shout out. 94 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: This episode's for you, and today I'm going to tell 95 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: you the tale of doctor James Barry. Now this is 96 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: a little bit contentious because it can be taken three ways, 97 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: and without James Barry themselves, there is no accurate way 98 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: for us to have an answer or you know, a 99 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: definitive conclusion. All we can do is guess, especially considering 100 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: it's a completely different you know, cultural and social context, 101 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, so I am going to change pronouns as 102 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: well during this. You should all be prepared for that. 103 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: So there are three arguments to whom doctor James Barry 104 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: was like their gender identity specifically, and there were three 105 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: arguments for that, and it's going to be up to 106 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: you to make your own mind in the end. I 107 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: have my own opinion. I'm kind of teetering between two 108 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: more than the other. But that's just me, and we'll 109 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: discuss it at the end. I say discuss it. I'm 110 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: going to say things to you, and you can agree 111 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: or disagree. You can shout out your phone or your 112 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: laptop or however you're listening to this. I don't know. 113 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: I through you're Alexa or something hymns to say. But yes, 114 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: we're going to start at the beginning where doctor James 115 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: Barry obviously it wasn't born a doctor didn't like shoot 116 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: out of the birth canal and was like stamp, here's 117 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 1: your doctorate. I understand that medical expertise during the Victorian era, 118 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: you know, weren't super but you know, they weren't exactly 119 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: handing them out. Once the cord was cut. So James 120 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: was born Margaret and Bulkley in seventeen eighty nine. Now 121 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: there is some contention about the birthday. Why are we 122 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: surprised exactly this one isn't actually you know, general patriarchal 123 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: bullshit this time. No, this was actually because of Barry, 124 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: because they were like fudging the numbers at one point, 125 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: which we'll get into. So Margaret An Bulkley was born 126 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty nine in Cork, Ireland, to Jeremiah and 127 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: Mary Anne Bulkley. So Jeremiah he ran the way House 128 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: in Merchants Cay and Cork. But so Irish was under 129 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: British rule at this point and as such, if you 130 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: know anything about the history, there was a massive, massive 131 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: anti Catholic sentiment, so like sectarianism absolutely righte right. So 132 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: he ends up losing his job, goes into debt and 133 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: then ends up in debts prison, leaving the rest of 134 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: the family kind of down on their luck. In Margaret's 135 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: older brother John, he's not really in the picture. He 136 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: isn't helping out in any way. He does go on 137 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: to get married, so he's probably dealing with that, but 138 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: like he's not involved in this in any way. So 139 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: at some point, Julianna is born, that is Margaret's younger sister, 140 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: Margaret and John's younger sister. Actually she's born, and there's 141 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: all the speculation that it's you know, Margaret's secret baby, 142 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: and it's it's not. It's mary Anne's. All evidence points 143 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: to mary Anne having an affair, having a baby, and 144 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: then the husband kicking them out. So Jeremiah is like, 145 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: get out, Cabby dealing with this not so after a 146 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: while he's like, actually, I forgive you. You can come back in, 147 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: and so they return. So then Jeremiah dies right pops 148 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: his clogs. Well, no, actually that's that's incorrect. Possibly maybe 149 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: kind of a wee bit. So we're not entirely sure 150 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: what happened to Jeremiah Buckley. I mean, we know he 151 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: died one way or the other. I mean, I doubt 152 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: he's still, you know, roaming the planes. But he either 153 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: died in Ireland or he ended up being sent to 154 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: wait on a convict ship, possibly because of debt and 155 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: other such scenarios. But there isn't enough information to really 156 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: give it one way or the other. And Margaret and 157 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: Maryanne they leave Ireland and they head to London because 158 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: they're trying to get in with Maryann's brother, James Barry, 159 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: who is this you know, influential artist. You know, he's 160 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: doing well for himself, so they're petitioning him for help 161 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: and he's like, nah, he doesn't do it. He doesn't 162 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: help them, and so they're struggling for two more years 163 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: until James Barry pops his clogs. So then he's off 164 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: and he leaves his sister an inheritance because he doesn't 165 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: have any known or legitimate heirs. So yeah, everything goes 166 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: to mary Anne and this sets her up a little bit. 167 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: And so this gets put into Margaret's education and things 168 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: like that, and they try to get Margaret a job 169 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: as a tutor. Unfortunately that doesn't quite work out, and 170 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's no work for Margaret, and they're trying 171 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: to figure out what the fuck to do. But then 172 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: a plan emerges between three of Barrie's uncle Barry. Uncle 173 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: Barry with Uncle Barry's three friends. It's really it's really 174 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: a weird lineup. So we have General Francisco de Miranda, 175 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: who is a Venezuelan militia man. Really he's trying to 176 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: create a revolution in Venezuela. So you've got him. You 177 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: have doctor Edward Fryer, who is a personal touror to 178 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: Margaret currently and then Daniel Warden, who is the family's solicitor. 179 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: So they start, you know, getting into Kohutz. There was 180 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: cooting happening, and they concoct a plan, and their whole 181 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: plan is to get Margaret into medical school. One slight 182 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 1: snag with this is that at the time it was 183 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: illegal for women to become doctors, and so shenanigans. They 184 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: had to make Barry or well Margaret at the time, 185 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: a man. They had to change, you know, their appearance, 186 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: and it had to be convincing and it had to 187 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: last so many years just to get through medical school. 188 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: That was the plan, and so they thought they'll apply 189 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: to the University of Edinburgh because one pretty advanced. In 190 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: two nobody really knew them up there, and before you 191 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: could say boo, Margaret and Bulkley was now James Barry, 192 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: the nephew of Mary Anne Bulkeley. And from now on 193 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: I will be referring to them as James Barry, hee 194 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: him all the way. So the plan was to get 195 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: James educated, to have them trained up to be a doctor, 196 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: and they would then travel to Venezuela, where you know, 197 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: hopefully this revolution would have happened and Francisco would have 198 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: been in charge. So if Francisco de Miranda was in charge, 199 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: they were happy to have, you know, a doctor. They 200 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: were fussed on gender, not even a wee bit. They're like, 201 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: you're fine as long as you know what you're doing, 202 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: come on board. So that was the plan. That was 203 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: the track they were on ABC full plan. And in 204 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: eighteen oh nine, Mary Anne Bulkley and her nephew Wink 205 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: Wink James Barry board the Leed Smack and head up 206 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: to Scotland and so dramatic bagpipe music. So James he 207 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: gets to Edinburgh, he's ready to go to medical school, 208 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: and then they kick him out because they're looking at 209 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: this wee fitler because he wasn't very tall. He had 210 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: read curly hair, fine features and such such smooth, supple 211 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: skin that they were suspicious and they were looking at 212 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: this fellow like, hang on a second, that's not a man. 213 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: That's not a man at all. That is a boy, 214 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: clearly a prepubasant boy. They accused him of lying of 215 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: his age. So it was this whole thing and he 216 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: gets kicked out and Barry he's there wiping the sweat 217 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: from his brow, like, yep, that's exactly the case. Look 218 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: at me, such a young and luckily for Barry, they 219 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: had friends in high places, like the Earl of Buchan, 220 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: who pulled a few strings, called in some favors, and 221 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: what do you know, Edinburgh decided that Barry was allowed 222 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: to stay. Yay. Now, Barry being slight and you know, 223 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: not very tall, and having very fine features and you know, 224 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: a higher pitched voice than the average bear, it wasn't 225 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: great for them. It also led to Barrie having quite 226 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: a bit of a temper, right, so massive temper a 227 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: bit of an issue, and whenever anyone mentioned their voice 228 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: being like higher than it should be, and they were 229 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: like mocking them for it. On more than one occasion, 230 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: he challenged someone to a duel, which is of course 231 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: he did, even though even though you're not supposed to 232 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: be dueling at this point, fairly certain it's illegal. But yeah, 233 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: So they spend the next couple of years and he 234 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: graduated Edinburgh and then he heads down to London where 235 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: he trains as a surgeon. So Barry is now doctor 236 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: James Barry and they are ready to head out to 237 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: Venezuela and meet the role pal General Miranda. So yeah, 238 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: Miranda's plan was to have like a free Venezuelan republic 239 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: where like men and women were all treated equally, and yeah, 240 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: unfortunately that didn't quite pan out. See, turns out revolutions 241 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: are hard, and because General Miranda had some quite revolutionary 242 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: ideas excuse the pun, don't excuse the plan of buck 243 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: and the puns. 244 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: Uh. 245 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the other revolutionaries turned on him and then 246 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: handed him over to the Spanish, the very people they 247 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: were revolting against, you know. So he ends up chucked 248 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: into prison and is left there to rot. But yeah, 249 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: so now that that path was completely crossed off the list, 250 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: Barry had to think of an alternative solution. So he 251 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: did the next most logical thing enlist in the army 252 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: as an assistant surgeon. So Barrie actually starts off as 253 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: a hospital assistant, like to the British Army in Chelsea, 254 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: and then he moves to the Royal Military Hospital in Plymouth, 255 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: where he then very quickly, i might add, gets you know, 256 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: a promotion to the you know, assistant surgeon, right, which 257 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: is effectively like a lieutenant so he's got that, and 258 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: so that's about eighteen fifteen, So in two years he's 259 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: managed to move up pretty sharpish. It's after this that 260 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: nepotism being nepotisming, and Lord Buchan, you know, who ensured 261 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: that he didn't get kicked out of Edinburgh, He introduces 262 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: him to General Somerset from Cape Town. So in eighteen sixteen, 263 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: James Barry gets sent down to Cape Town, which, in 264 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: a crazy random happenstance, works out really fucking beautifully for Barrie. 265 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: You see, the Lieutenant General, Lord Somerset, his daughter is ill. 266 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: So Barry arrives. This girl is sick, and so Barry 267 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: treats her and cures her, you know, and Charles Somerset 268 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: is so he's so just relieved and astounded and grateful 269 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: for this that Barry gets appointed as his personal physician, 270 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: which is a very very you know, high esteemed position, 271 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: especially considering Barrie's low military rank. So Barry is there 272 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: and he is making waves. He's been there what six years, 273 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: He's appointed to the Colonial Medical Inspector and he is 274 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. So there's all of these massive 275 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: changes and it all kind of leads to preventative medicine. 276 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: It's like preventative care. It's helping people before they get sick. 277 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: So so he creates better conditions for enslaved people, prisoners, 278 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: the mentally ill. He has this whole thing about military 279 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: medicine and how everything is unhygienic and every needs to 280 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: be better, reform and everything like that. He's great into 281 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: sanitation hygiene and also kind of creates the concept of 282 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: a leper colony. It's supposed to be sanctuary. But think 283 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: about leprosy though, is it's also really weird because it's 284 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: so slow. Like leprosy is a very slow disease, So 285 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: someone could be infected and have leprosy and show absolutely 286 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: no symptoms for twenty thirty forty years, even because it 287 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: is such a slow mutation. Why do I know so 288 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: much about leprosy? Listen, we all have our hobbies, Okay, 289 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: we all do. Ah. Mine is poisons and peculiar diseases. 290 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: Poisons and diseases. I worried that myself sometimes, but it's fine. 291 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: So what James Barry is known for, especially is that 292 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: they were the first white doctor to perform a cesarean, 293 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: a C section where both the mother and infant survived 294 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: because up until this point where this happens, the mother, 295 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: the person giving birth, they would have an eighty five 296 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: percent chance of death. Either way, both of them were 297 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: not surviving. And clearly James Barry had been paying attention 298 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: to the African surgeons around him because this had been 299 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: going on for such a long time. There was botanical 300 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: tinctures and creations that were used to even sedate the 301 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: mother and promote healing on the wounds that actual scar 302 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: and this had been happening for such a long time, 303 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: and they did it with such precision, and they had 304 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: such care the care. Clearly, you know they had progressed 305 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: and they had been doing this a long time. But 306 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, white people just didn't want to accept that 307 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: that people who were not them were actually far more 308 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: advanced than they were in certain techniques and skills. I mean, 309 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: the pyramids, guys, the pyramids they're not They're not made 310 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: by aliens. They're just made by very very skilled workers. 311 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, there was this whole thing. Oh, it 312 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: must be a conspiracy. It must be aliens, it must 313 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: be this. No, people were just very good at doing 314 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: things that you cannot fathom your brain cannot comprehend how 315 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: to do this task. Like, that's not your fault. I 316 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,239 Speaker 1: mean it might be a weabit, but it's not just 317 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: they were better at things. Get over it. So over 318 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: the years, this relationship with Somerset, because they're so close 319 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: and because there's a I mean, here's I could say 320 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: government corruption, but they're probably is government corruption because it's colonialism. 321 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: There's government corruption. And you know, James Barry got jobs 322 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: and got the position because they had friends in high places. 323 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: Someone of a lower rank wouldn't have that option. I'm 324 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: just putting it out there. So one day this anonymous 325 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: poster gets put up and it basically says that Somerset 326 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: and Barry were performing sodomy. So the poster gets teared 327 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: down pretty quick, but it is a whole thing, and 328 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: the whole point of it was to point out government corruption. 329 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: But nobody was listening to they're doing this and they're 330 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: doing that, and they're hiring their friends and they're taking 331 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: this money and they're spending it all doing this. No, no, 332 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: they had to add sodomy d it. Well, they actually 333 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: used the term buggery. Yeah, it was the only way 334 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: to have them investigated. So they were investigated and they 335 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: were found to yeah, not be gay lovers whatever, but yeah, 336 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: big deal. Anyway, there's a few of the things that happened. 337 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: There's also another scandal with a soldier's estranged wife, which 338 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: leads to Somerset having to leave his post. So all 339 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: of these sort of scandals come out one after the other, 340 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: and the spending comes into it. People are getting a 341 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: bit iffy about it, and so Somerset does eventually have 342 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: to leave. But himself, Barry, he is he's in the army. 343 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: He can't just squad dodle, squaddle skidaddle, skid daddle, squad dodle. 344 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: What's wrong with me? Many things, but that's not the point. 345 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: So Barry is there. And Barry actually introduced the smallpox vaccine. 346 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: I've forgot this. He introduced the smallpox vaccine way before 347 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: Europe does. Like it's it's wild, even though I think 348 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: it was originally from cowpox. I think it was a 349 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: woman who discovered it, if I'm not mistaken, and then 350 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: nobody listened to her. But anyway, it's fine. It's not fine. 351 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: It's annoying, but it is what it is. So Barry 352 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: is there doing his thing and actually known for being 353 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: like kind of angry and grumpy and everything else that 354 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: goes with it, because I don't know how many pleasant 355 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: surgeons there are out there. I feel like they're like chefs, 356 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: like they're generally not the most pleasant people to be around. 357 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, Barrie is also known as this massive flirt, 358 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: so flirts with so many women to the point it's 359 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: deemed inappropriate. And he ends up being challenged to a 360 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: duel by this dude, and there's a discrepancy is what happens. 361 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: Some of it says that he shot the hat off 362 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: his opponent, and the other part says that, you know, 363 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: they got a flesh wound, he went away, treated himself 364 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: and then came back that nothing happened, and then the 365 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: two fellows became fast friends. Good for them. All it 366 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: takes is you know, pistols at dawn to really steal 367 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: a friendship. So not too long after the scandal, Barry 368 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: actually gets promoted to surgeon of the Forces and he 369 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: gets posted to Mauritius in about eighteen twenty eight. So 370 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: there he is in Mauritius eighteen twenty eight. He's doing 371 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: his thing and he goes a wall from the British Army, 372 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: he just goes, fuck this for a game of soldiers 373 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: to the soldiers, and off he pops. He heads off 374 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: to England because Charles Summersond is incredibly ill, and so 375 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: he goes there and he stays until eighteen thirty one, 376 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: so this is like two years. Yet she spends it 377 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: was twenty nine he left, so it was two years. 378 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: He just pisses off from the army and when he 379 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: comes back when he joins again, and he's like, I 380 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: left because I needed a haircut and there aren't any 381 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: good hairdresses here. Basically that was the whole jig. But 382 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: like when he's questioned, they're like, your audacity is as 383 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: long as your hair, So like clearly there was no 384 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: haircut going on. They're like, what are you at, You 385 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: absolute piss pot. So anyway, he ends up being posted 386 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: to Jamaica and then to the island of Saint Helena 387 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: and Will he's there. He basically shows up and he's like, 388 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: what the actual fuck is this nonsense? And his temper 389 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: gets him in so much trouble, so much trouble that 390 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: he is a rested and court martialed with conduct unbecoming 391 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: of the character of an officer and a gentleman like. 392 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: He ends up getting like a not guilty play and 393 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: is like honorably acquitted because I think they're just very 394 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: aware of how good a surgeon like Barry is. And like, 395 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: the whole reason he was court martialed in the first 396 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: place was because he had bypassed the top officers to 397 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: petition the Home Office for more and or better medical supplies. 398 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: So after this, Barry sent to the West Indies and 399 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: he's you know, focusing more on medicine preventative care, and 400 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: he's very much about promoting healthcare for soldiers because he's like, hey, 401 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: things need to be more sanitary when need Like the 402 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: hygiene here was absolutely shocking. Things need to be better. 403 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: And so he's pushing all this stuff. He's trying to 404 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: get staff to be he's trying to ensure that, you know, soldiers, 405 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: aren't you know, putting somebody with an infectious disease on 406 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: one side and then next to a healthy person with 407 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: just like a wound on the other. It's like a 408 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: whole thing. So he is consistently implementing these like rules 409 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: and reforms. So he ends up getting promoted again to 410 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: the principal medical officer. But then in look eighteen forty five, 411 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: he gets yellow fever because of course he does, of course, 412 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: and he has to go to England. And then finally 413 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: he gets the all clear and he heads to Malta, 414 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: where he gets in trouble because of all the things 415 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: to do. He sits in like a priest's pew. That's 416 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: the priest's see. You don't get to sit there, James. 417 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: I don't know who told you you could, but no, 418 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: And then of course he has to do with a 419 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: collar epidemic because nothing can never be easy ever. I mean, 420 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: this is a time where diseases were like everywhere. But 421 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: then in eighteen fifty one he gets sent to Corfu. 422 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: So Barry is there and he is doing what he 423 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: does best. He is instituting public sanitation. He's providing better 424 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: health care for soldiers. He is, you know, helping medicate 425 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: and reduce sexually transmitted diseases in soldiers, which was a 426 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: consistent issue. Like one of the things Barry tried to 427 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: do was ban alcohol, which I think is so funny 428 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: because Barry was teetotal. It's probably better to keep command 429 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: of your functions if you're not slashed. Probably, so they 430 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: tried to ban like booze in the army, which they 431 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: didn't like that even though like the majority like eighty 432 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: I think it's eighty or ninety percent of accidental deaths 433 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: happened at that time, like as a result of being intoxicated, 434 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,479 Speaker 1: and I ever already said this, But anyway, he is, 435 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, providing better care for soldiers. He treats everybody equally. 436 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: And the funniest thing about barriers because like short temper, 437 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: like really grumpy, just unhappy with everything, shows up in 438 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: Corfu and there's like, what absolute fucking nonsense is this 439 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: what you doing? And he's just pushing stuff in and 440 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: it gets to the point where he actually prevents a 441 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: typhus epidemic. Like the dude is on the ball. So 442 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: while he's you know, getting things going and is really 443 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: really taking care of things and is really in the 444 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: best strategic position because in Corfu, I'm just like Malta, 445 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: it's basically a crossroads for all of these military operations, 446 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: so like one war's happening here and other battle's happening there. 447 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: Because of how incredibly grandiose the British Empire was, and 448 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: that is not a compliment. Because of how large it was. 449 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: You know, it was a very good point in which 450 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: to send you know, the infirm or the ill. But 451 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if you were getting as far as Corfu, 452 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: like you weren't on death's door. That being said, you know, 453 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: secondary infection was always like a massive issue. So you 454 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: might be fine, but then you're gonna get like gangreen 455 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: or sepsis. But as we've been shown time and time again, 456 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: Barry's focus was on preventative care. It was ensuring shit 457 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: didn't hit the fan, even though they did quite regularly. 458 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: So when he's in Corfu, the Crimean War breaks out, 459 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: and here's a thing, a battlefield tourism was a thing, 460 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: like it was very popular, you know, the rich would 461 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: go visit battlefields during wars. I mean, here's the thing 462 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: people jump out of like airplanes and they do all 463 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: of these extreme sports to like feel something. I feel 464 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: like this is the you know, Georgian equivalent of this, 465 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: because I don't know if we're quite in the Victorian 466 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: area yet, ari are maybe anyway, the Duke of Wellington 467 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: is like, you know, very impressed with Barry, very impressed 468 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: with you know, all of the sanitary reforms and everything 469 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: that he's been implementing, and he gets promoted by Wellington 470 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: as the Inspector General of British Hospitals, which I think 471 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: is like the equivalent of like Brigadier General, I'm not 472 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: two upon my army terms. And then whose good old pal, 473 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: Lord Raglan invites him over to Scatari and doctor James Barry. 474 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: He just happens to be on leave and thinks, sure, 475 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: I could go visit Scatari, and so he ends up 476 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: in this hospital which is known more for soldiers dying 477 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: from infections than actual wounds, and this is where he 478 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: comes across. You know, this was the Victorian era because 479 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: this was Queen Victoria's pet Florence Nightingale, who was just 480 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: beloved to a certain point because well everything Florence Nightingale did, 481 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: the lady with the lamp, the caring women for the soldiers, 482 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: sort of a pioneer in nursing, some might say, But 483 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: Florence Nightingale and doctor James Barrie, you think they would 484 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: get along, you know, they would be long similar wavelengths, 485 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: absolutely fucking not not a jot. They did not like 486 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: each other. They came to like loggerheads. And the best 487 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: part of this was they meet There was some kind 488 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: of conversation. It does not go well, and Florence Nightingale 489 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: ends up calling him a brute. We don't know what 490 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: was said to Florence Nightingale. There is there is a 491 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: rumor that it was something to do with her lack 492 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: of hat, because she wasn't wearing a hat, but whom's 493 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: to say now? On top of this as well, there 494 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: is like a letter that Florence Standingale wrote to her 495 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: sister saying that you know that he was a very 496 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: apt physician, which is kind of a compliment. Anyway. The 497 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: thing about Florence Nightingale is she doesn't like women, or 498 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: she didn't like women just as a general rule. So 499 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe she took one look at doctor James 500 00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: Barry and went, there's no Adam's apple there. That's a 501 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: woman like even on some like subconscious level, and just 502 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: automatically was like, nope, I despise you. You're tenny little person. 503 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: M Perhaps perhaps I do love the fact that Barrie 504 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: was known to be a bit of a dandy and 505 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: as such, like being so obsessed with fashion mainly I 506 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: think to just hide their appearance or to alter their 507 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: appearance to then comment on the lack of a hat 508 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: by a woman. It just seems very on brand for 509 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: me for that to be it, and I really wish 510 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: it's true. But whatever happened, they did not like each other. 511 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: And this had some implications for Barry because Florence Nightingale 512 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: had friends in high places. She basically pushed him out 513 00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: of the area and was responsible for his promotion not 514 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: a promotion. So Nightingale greases some wheels and she ensures 515 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: that Barry is sent off to Canada. Now this is 516 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: bad for a couple of reasons. One, this is a 517 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: man who has spent the majority of his life in 518 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: a tropical climate. So he's used to warm heat, you know, 519 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: warm heat, Yes, warm heat our favorite type. He's used 520 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,479 Speaker 1: to warmer weather and a hotter climate, you know, that's 521 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: what he's used to. And by sending him off to Canada, 522 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: it's a very different climate, it's a very different atmosphere, 523 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: and it's just it just seems petty and not in 524 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: a good way, you know. But on top of that, 525 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: Nightingale was putting together this Royal Commission on Army Medical Services, 526 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's also known as the Royal Sanitary Commission, 527 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: and this was created sort of a response to again, 528 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: like high mortality rates and sanitary condition during the Crimean War. 529 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: So all the stuff that Bari had been fighting against 530 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: in all of the infrastructure and you know, rules and 531 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: regulations that he had implemented throughout his entire career Like this, 532 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: this was kind of I don't want to say pledge herrized, 533 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: but like m a lot of the stuff she was 534 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: doing was based on his original work, like his original ideas, 535 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: and by pushing him out to Canada, she was basically 536 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: taking the glory. You know, I'm not trying to like 537 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: denounce anything Florence Nightingale did, because you know, she did 538 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: fucking lot for these soldiers. But people are nuanced and 539 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: good people can still be dicks. So she did a lot, 540 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: and she really did help, and she did ensure that 541 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: better sanitary conditions and better medical supplies were being provided 542 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: to these military personnel. However, she did push James Barry 543 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: out of the scenario, so it meant that she would 544 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: get this recognition and Barry would just be I don't know, 545 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: a historical oddity just ignored, like it's it doesn't sit 546 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: right with me us all I'm saying, it just doesn't 547 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: sit right, But yeah, Barrie is in Canada and that's 548 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: where things go south for him. So he's there, he's 549 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: still doing when he does best again, he's fighting for 550 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: better sanitation, better food and supplies, and proper bloody medical care. 551 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: So he wants it for everybody, for soldiers, for prisoners, 552 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 1: for people with long conditions, like the lepers, big on 553 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: the lepers. So he's doing things for soldiers and their families, 554 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: and like even here he's like, hm, this is weird 555 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: that married soldiers, married couples, and then single soldiers were 556 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: like sharing a barracks, like there wasn't a separate like space, 557 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: and this contributed to like alcoholism and a bunch of 558 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: other issues. So he ensured that they got that that 559 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: separate option. And which is something you actually see come 560 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: in to play later on if you listen to the 561 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: Annie Chapman episode of the Five Canonical Victims of Jacquie Ripper, 562 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: like this is mentioned a wee bit in it, and 563 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: that happens because of barri So Barrie is again very 564 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: much into just creating a better life for you know, everybody, 565 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,959 Speaker 1: regardless of race, gender, creed the whole shabang, right, But yes, 566 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: he's fighting for better drainage and sewage systems in Montreal. 567 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: He's arguing for ovens, ovens and barracks so that soldiers 568 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: are eating proper nutritious meals, because you know, a well 569 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: nourished army is a happy, a happy army. Yeah, yeah, 570 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: sounds a bit right, but yeah. Well, he's in Canada 571 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: and he's you know, pushing for all these reforms and 572 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: he's doing his best. He ends up il so he 573 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: contracts bronchitis, probably because he's in you know, a cold 574 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: bloody area and unknown to Bari, this was going to 575 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: be his final posting Canada was his last hahrah. So 576 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: he contracts bronchitis and he's he's forced he has to 577 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: go back to England. So he returns to England with 578 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: the whole purpose of recuperating, and for about six months 579 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: he's on like half pay by the army. But then, 580 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: of course, you know it's clear he's not getting better 581 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: because you know, he's he's pushing it. At this age, 582 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: he's getting old in the tooth and he's unwell, and 583 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: he is forcefully retired from the military. And a little 584 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: while after this he ends up with something he was 585 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,240 Speaker 1: fighting against for so long in all of these locations, 586 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: he has dysentery, which is, of all the ways to go, 587 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: it's a really, really unpleasant one. It is foul and 588 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: exhausting and just just a horrific way to go. And 589 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: then on the fifteenth of July eighteen sixty five, doctor 590 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: James Barry passes away. But his death was not the 591 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: end of his story. So there are rumors and whispers 592 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: that James Barry, you know, had stated that he did 593 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: not want to have an autopsy, his body was not 594 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: to be autopsied, or he was to be buried in 595 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: the clothes that he died in, so on and so forth. 596 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: We don't have any official documents, there's no official source material. 597 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: There's nothing to you know, a firmer confirm or to 598 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: say that's how it was. It's just one of those, 599 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, little pieces of information that has stuck regardless 600 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: of whether there's anything to back it up. So after 601 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: James Barry passes, his doctor comes to you know, sign 602 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: the death certificate, you know, do the usual, and he 603 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: shows up, signs the bit goes, yeah, that's Barry, that's fine. 604 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: Off he goes. So after that's done, the next piece 605 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: is the body needs to be cleaned for burial. It's 606 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: just part of the whole shebang. So the charwoman comes in, 607 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,320 Speaker 1: cleans down the body, does her bit, and then isn't paid. 608 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: So it's she's not paid either by the landlady and 609 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: Barry has no relatives, so there's there's no one. So 610 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: she heads up to the doctor and she goes, you 611 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 1: need to pay me, or I'm going to tell everyone 612 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: that you know this doctor James Barry was not a 613 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 1: man but was in fact a woman. And doctor McKinnon 614 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: is like, right, okay, wherever go away and the charwoman 615 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: still isn't paid. And so after this McKinnon receives a 616 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:58,399 Speaker 1: letter from the General Register's Office, the gro so they're like, hey, 617 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: by the way, this woman came forward and said that 618 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: Barry is was a woman. What say you, doctor McKinnon. 619 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: And McKinnon's response, I'm going to paraphrase away bit here, 620 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: but basically he said that he had known Barry you 621 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: know for many many years from his time in the 622 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: West Indies in England, that he was his attending physician 623 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,919 Speaker 1: in his you know, later part of his life through 624 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: his bronchiitis and the dysentery which would end his life. 625 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: He then goes on to say that at no point 626 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: during this had he ever suspected that Barry was, you know, 627 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: a woman, a biological female, however you want to put it. No, 628 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: not an England, not an ocean, and that this charwoman 629 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: came up, had asked him for money, that the landlady 630 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 1: had refused her, and that she was going to go forth. 631 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,720 Speaker 1: And he was like, you know, I said that Barry 632 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: wasn't a woman, and the charwoman who is just like 633 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,439 Speaker 1: so Sassey had said, what kind of some doctor you are? 634 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want you looking after me if you can't 635 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,479 Speaker 1: tell the difference between a man and a woman, which 636 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: is sassy. And you kind of have to give her that, 637 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, like, may we talk about it? Because when 638 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: she had in, you know, washed down the body, the 639 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: genitalia was not what was expected. There was vulva or vagina, 640 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: and no penis, no testes, none of that. So that's 641 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: the issue there. What I found quite interesting is there's 642 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 1: no mention of breasts. So this woman saw the entire body. 643 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: She mentions the stretch marks on Barry's stomach, which could 644 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:52,840 Speaker 1: be as some think, somethink it's the result of being 645 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: pregnant at some point in their life. But there's no 646 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: real evidence of this. And there's a bunch of reasons 647 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: why people get stretch marks when they grow or gain weight, 648 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 1: or have an illness like dysentery, Like, there's a bunch 649 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: of reasons why someone would have stretch marks on their 650 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: stomach if they went through any period of malnutrition, Like 651 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: your stomach can swell and you know that that happens. 652 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:25,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, McKinnon's effective response at the end was, well, 653 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: it didn't really matter to me whether Barry was a 654 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: he or she, but I assumed that they were a hermaphrodite. 655 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: Hemaphrodite is the term that McKinnon uses. We would say 656 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:43,240 Speaker 1: intersects now, So that was the doctor's opinion. So after 657 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:49,280 Speaker 1: this he's like whatever, and someone quite possibly the charwoman, 658 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: goes to the papers and it becomes a massive, massive scandal. 659 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: So people just go nuts for it. You've got Charles 660 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: Dickens right in stories about it. Fuck you, Charles Dickens. 661 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: I do have an innate hatred for that snake of 662 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: a man. But yet it becomes a massive, massive issue, 663 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,919 Speaker 1: to the point where the army is so embarrassed about 664 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 1: the whole ordeal that it forces all documents and all 665 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: of Barrie's records to be sealed for one hundred years. 666 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: And it would have been so incredibly easy for, you know, 667 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,399 Speaker 1: the history of the life of doctor James Barrie to 668 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: fade into obscurity. But you know, once the records are sealed, 669 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: you have one person writing about it and then another 670 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: person reading about it. And then as we evolve now 671 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: as culture and society and we become more understanding to 672 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: an extent of people, and you know, gender identities and 673 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: everything like that, and of course you know the waves 674 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: of feminism. Doctor James Barry, no matter how you look 675 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,280 Speaker 1: at them as a person, they were an incredibly important figure. 676 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 1: They were a trailblazer. They saved countless lives because they 677 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: were willing to go above and beyond, regardless of what 678 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,240 Speaker 1: their gender identity was. So at the beginning of the episode, 679 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: I did mention the you know, the three sort of 680 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: trains of thought, trains of thought, trains of thought. True. True, 681 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 1: that seems incorrect to me somehow, but yet also feels 682 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: a little bit correct. It is very humid here and 683 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 1: I couldn't put my fan on I have this old 684 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: fan from like I swear, from the nineteen eighties, but 685 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,879 Speaker 1: I can't put it on because it makes too much 686 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: noise and the microphone won't pick it up. So yeah, 687 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: uh oh, the saying choe shoe train of thought, it 688 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: is a train of thought. That's not what I meant. Though, 689 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: I didn't mean a tree. I thought, No, what is 690 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,839 Speaker 1: wrong with me? No? I meant there were three sort 691 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: of main ideas as to the gender identity of doctor 692 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: James Barry and who slash what they represent. Oh and 693 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: before I add anything else, I want to say, you'll 694 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: see a lot of the times that doctor James Barry 695 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: has James Miranda whatever Barry Stuart I think is, and 696 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: that they were never referred to that in their lifetime. 697 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: There was no documentation, there was nothing that people just 698 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,319 Speaker 1: added that in later. I think more of a of 699 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: a way to kind of slide in that James Barry 700 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:47,359 Speaker 1: was really a woman. But James Barry either three options. One, 701 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: they were a woman disguised as a man. In order 702 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 1: to have the career that they wanted, right, they had 703 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: to fit against prejudice because it was illegal for them 704 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 1: to do what they want to do. Option one feminist icon. 705 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,360 Speaker 1: Option two transgender person just living their best life, trans 706 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: man just doing what they want to do, or option 707 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:24,879 Speaker 1: three James Barry was intersex and just shows their own 708 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,319 Speaker 1: identity because you know, they had to pick one of 709 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,000 Speaker 1: the binary and even though they were assigned female at birth, 710 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 1: they didn't feel that way. And being intersex, even though 711 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: that's his own gender identity that a lot of people 712 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,759 Speaker 1: can't seem to grasp effectively. I mean, you're all the 713 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: time they have to choose one way or the other. So, yeah, 714 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: with what did we learned today? James Barry was such 715 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,960 Speaker 1: an important figure and we will never know the answer. 716 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: We can never have that unless we go back and 717 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,399 Speaker 1: time travel and ask them themselves, and even then they 718 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,720 Speaker 1: might not want to fucking tell us because even though 719 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:16,720 Speaker 1: they are so important, they're such an amazing figure in history, 720 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: like for so many reasons out with their gender identity, 721 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: you know, and it's none of our fucking business, which 722 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: is I say this as a historian, like none of 723 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,920 Speaker 1: our business. But it does give people someone to look 724 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,880 Speaker 1: up to. So whether you see you know James Barry 725 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: as a feminist icon, as a transman making waves and 726 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: doing great or an intersex person choosing their own way. 727 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: They were a fantastic person, regardless of their temper because 728 00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,759 Speaker 1: they saved so many people, and that it's kind of 729 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: what matters. And with that, I shall move on to 730 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: recommendation time. So reading, I am going to suggest The 731 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: Companion by Ee Ottoman. It's a historical romance. It's set 732 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties, but you know there's a just 733 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: just give it a go. Give it a go for listening. 734 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,680 Speaker 1: I've been re listening to Come to Daddy with Rubin Ka. 735 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: It's so hilarious. We should absolutely give it a go 736 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:40,080 Speaker 1: and for watching. Now. Secret Invasion is coming out on 737 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,800 Speaker 1: Disney Plus and I am an absolute nerd, so I 738 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,680 Speaker 1: will absolutely be watching that. I'm recommending it. I haven't 739 00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,440 Speaker 1: even seen it yet, so just just go watch it 740 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 1: because I need I'll be able to talk to you 741 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: about it. Go now. So if you like this episode 742 00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: or my retelling of the life of doctor James Barrie, 743 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: feel free to rate and review five stars. I would 744 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,040 Speaker 1: like love that, so if you could do that, that 745 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: would be amusing. And you can follow me on all 746 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,279 Speaker 1: my socials. I'm on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on 747 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: Twitter sometimes ranting about things. Also on Facebook, just not 748 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: as much as I probably should be, but I'm there. 749 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: But if you don't follow me in the socials, you 750 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 1: should and annoy me because I love it. I love it. 751 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: We don't like say mean things, just say lovely things. Compliments. 752 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:37,439 Speaker 1: I want your compliments. Yeah, okay, yeah, so I love 753 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,799 Speaker 1: you so much and I am going to go now 754 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: because it is very hot and I need to just 755 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 1: eat ice straight from the fraser. I think that's my 756 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: new plan. And with that, I shall bid you good night. 757 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: Adios or what is there, my friends? A bubbe