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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for our number one

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Speaker 1: medicine man super producer, mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: Because I only did the booze so I could do

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Speaker 2: the hiss, because the hiss it's just topic appropriate.

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Speaker 1: And hiss doesn't make sense, you know, without the boo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just what do we cat people?

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Speaker 2: You need the boo followed by the hiss. If everyone

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Speaker 2: were to hiss first, I would immediately not take them seriously.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you're booing your own hiss exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's all about decorum here when it comes to nagging

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Speaker 2: people in public.

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Speaker 1: Your Noel, I'm Ben, and today our booze and our

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Speaker 1: hisses are appropriate because we're talking about something that's a

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Speaker 1: little bit etymology, it's a little bit marketing. It is

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent ridiculous, Noel. We are exploring snake oil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, snake oil like as a concept, as an actual

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Speaker 2: thing that legitimately existed. Like, let's think of the you know,

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Speaker 2: I think maybe a lot of people's first experience with

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Speaker 2: the idea of a traveling snake oil salesman was probably

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Speaker 2: in The Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: In the original Wizard of Oz with the guy whatever.

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Speaker 2: His name was, you know who in the black and

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Speaker 2: white version ends up being the I guess when Dorothy's

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Speaker 2: having her psychotic break and all the little details are

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Speaker 2: kaiser sozeing their way into her brain. That guy rep

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Speaker 2: since the Wizard of Oz, but he travels around in

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Speaker 2: a caravan that has a sign something marvelous. I believe

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Speaker 2: it has the word marvelous in it, and he sells

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Speaker 2: like tonics and stuff, you know, and like remedies, things

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Speaker 2: purported to be cure all's cure some perhaps panaceas your

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Speaker 2: mileage may vary, caveat em thor and so on.

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Speaker 1: I love to use the word remedy because I know

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Speaker 1: it is a very dangerous time in history. But I

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Speaker 1: miss the days when you could just put any stupid,

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Speaker 1: possibly dangerous thing in a bottle, slap a label on

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Speaker 1: it that said remedy and some high faluting esoteric language,

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Speaker 1: and people would buy it. That's like that's snake oil, right,

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Speaker 1: some kind of fake treatment or cure, a way to

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Speaker 1: fix a condition that modern medicine just can't combat. You

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Speaker 1: see it all the time, right, like bad skin, baldness, cancer,

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Speaker 1: genetic diseases, what else?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I mean you name it basically, but I

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Speaker 2: do want to issue a quick correction for what I said.

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Speaker 2: It was a Professor Marvel, which is cool because that

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Speaker 2: sounds very.

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Speaker 1: Much like a comic book character.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we have Captain Marvel in the in

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Speaker 2: the Marvel Cinematic and comic book universe. But he wasn't

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Speaker 2: selling He necessarily wasn't necessarily selling products like that. He

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Speaker 2: was more of a fortune teller, acclaimed by the crowned

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Speaker 2: heads of Europe itself. Let him read your past, present

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Speaker 2: and future in his crystal. But the vehicle and the

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Speaker 2: wagon that he's riding around in is exactly the same

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Speaker 2: as those made famous by these very shady individuals, you know,

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Speaker 2: roaming the countryside or whatever in you know, maybe days

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Speaker 2: of great depression and beyond, trying to sell hapless individuals

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Speaker 2: on some kind of thing that would maybe cure what

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Speaker 2: ailed them, but probably can nothing but mineral spirits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Better Business Bureau loves these guys. Kidding. BBB wasn't around,

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Speaker 1: But I know you said something really interesting. I think

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Speaker 1: maybe we start there. Snake oil, although now it means

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Speaker 1: any cure treatment that falsely promises extraordinary results, is and

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Speaker 1: was a real thing in other cultures. Like let's go,

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Speaker 1: let's journey back to the days of ancient Chinese traditional medicine.

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Speaker 1: They used water snakes or oil from water snakes as

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Speaker 1: a treatment for joint pain. And I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: think we all have in the West such an association

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Speaker 1: with snake oil as a term for con artists, that

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Speaker 1: we kind of forget the legitimate attempts that humanity has

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Speaker 1: had using snake oil. Like it goes all the way

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Speaker 1: back to the seventeen hundreds, I think is the first

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Speaker 1: time the phrase is used in print.

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Speaker 2: And Old Webster in his famous Dictionary does point out,

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Speaker 2: as you said, Ben, the first printed use of snake

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Speaker 2: oil appears in the early seventeen hundreds. But again with

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Speaker 2: examples from you know, ancient historian, ancient Roman historian Pliny

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Speaker 2: the Elder, we have examples dating as far back as

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Speaker 2: the early to mid sixteen hundreds referring to specific combinations

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Speaker 2: of the snake juice, you know, being ground and beaten

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Speaker 2: and strained into something that did seem to be helpful

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Speaker 2: to some degree. I think maybe my favorite one is

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Speaker 2: this longer one from John French from the Art of Distillation.

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Speaker 1: Ben, I believe you found this one. This is great.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is okay. So before we do this,

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Speaker 1: when everybody needs to know that it is written in

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Speaker 1: an older kind of tone. That's why it's cool, right.

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Speaker 1: So the oil of snakes and Adams. Take snakes us

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Speaker 1: when they are fat, which will be in June or July,

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Speaker 1: cut off their heads and take off their skins and

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Speaker 1: unbowel them and put them in a glass gord. Uh no,

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Speaker 1: why you take the.

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Speaker 2: Rest of this Well, first of all, let's let's just

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Speaker 2: unback a little bit of this work a glass gourd.

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Speaker 1: What does that just mean? A jar basically? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was uh yeah, it was a glass. It was

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Speaker 1: like a mason jar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe one of those heavy like a heavy mason jar, right.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then you have unbowel, which does make sense, you know,

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Speaker 2: because you know, to how does one bowel something You

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Speaker 2: can really can't. It's really no putting it back. Once

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Speaker 2: it's unboweled, then you're kind of done. But I've always

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Speaker 2: heard it, you know, described as disemboweled rather than emboweled.

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Speaker 2: So this is a funny. I've never seen it quite

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Speaker 2: stated this way before. So to unbowel them would be

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Speaker 2: to remove their their guddies.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and then you pour a bunch of wine

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Speaker 1: over it, and then you seal up the glass and

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Speaker 1: well rectified so rectified, yeah, fortified wine like mad Dog

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Speaker 1: forty forty type stuff or whatever it's called. And then

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Speaker 1: you have to just keep it there. Eventually. What John

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Speaker 1: French tells us is that when this stuff has matured,

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Speaker 1: you can use it to help people here again, or

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Speaker 1: as he puts it.

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Speaker 3: This oil doff wonderful cures and recovering hearing and those

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Speaker 3: that'd be deaf if a few drops thereof be put

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Speaker 3: quam into the ears right right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if it's talking about removing earwax or gunk,

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Speaker 1: then maybe. But spoiler, folks, John French did not invent

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Speaker 1: a cure for deafness.

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Speaker 2: Bummer. Yeah, that was pretty permanent. I don't think anyone's

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Speaker 2: quite cracked that code yet. It is funny, though, because

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Speaker 2: when I hear things like this, and again, no shade

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Speaker 2: on anyone that's into like holistic remedies or herbal remedies,

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Speaker 2: and some of them, you know, again, your milas may vary.

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Speaker 2: But like things like ear candling. Have you heard of

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Speaker 2: this that these like things he has shove in your

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Speaker 2: ears and the item they, you know, supposedly like extract

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Speaker 2: the wax from your ears. I've never known them to

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Speaker 2: be particularly effective, but they do. When you crack them open.

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Speaker 2: They're filled with kind of weird, gross stuff, so it

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Speaker 2: does have the appearance of working. But again, I don't know, folks.

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Speaker 2: If you guys are proponents of ear candling, let us

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Speaker 2: know if that works for you. But of course, we

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Speaker 2: are going to eventually get to where the origins of

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Speaker 2: a lot of this kind of holistic medicine comes from,

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Speaker 2: you know, referred too often as Eastern medicine. When the

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Speaker 2: Chinese American population started to kind of boom in the

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Speaker 2: United States, a lot of these traditional remedies or medicines

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Speaker 2: were brought with them.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, this is where we see the evolution toward

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Speaker 1: the current definition of snake oil. There's a guy named

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Speaker 1: Richard White. He wrote a book called Railroad, and it's

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Speaker 1: all about the thousands and thousands of Chinese nationals who

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Speaker 1: immigrated to the US between eighteen forty nine and eighteen

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Speaker 1: eighty two and estimated one hundred and eighty thousand people.

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Speaker 2: I'm sensing a double entendre in the name of the book,

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Speaker 2: as though they maybe perhaps got a raw deal.

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Speaker 1: Again An he's a smart cookie, yeah, and it's a

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Speaker 1: good book. There's another guy, another author, David Howard Bain,

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Speaker 1: who wrote a book called Empire Express And when you

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Speaker 1: read these two books together you learn a lot about

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Speaker 1: the demographics. So the majority of these immigrants came from

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Speaker 1: lower income families, peasant families in southeastern China, and they

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Speaker 1: got signed up to these horrific contracts that would lock

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Speaker 1: them in for you know, five years or more with

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Speaker 1: very low wages compared to their other coworkers, the European counterparts.

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Speaker 1: So they had to resort to some of their own

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Speaker 1: traditional cultural practices when they couldn't go to a doctor

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Speaker 1: or something like that, you know, not even putting the

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Speaker 1: money aside, just the racism at the time made it

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Speaker 1: difficult for them to get medical treatment. They brought with

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Speaker 1: them this incredibly rich cultural history dating back thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things they brought with them was

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Speaker 1: the idea of traditional medicine. Including that snake oil that

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Speaker 1: we mentioned from the Chinese water snake, which actually works

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Speaker 1: a little apparently. Well it makes sense though, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: It is an aquatic creature, and so it makes sense

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Speaker 2: perhaps that the oil from these water snakes might contain

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Speaker 2: some of the same nutrients that fish contain. And to

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Speaker 2: this day, people still swear by fish oil supplements, you know,

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Speaker 2: because they contain a ton of omega three fatty acids,

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Speaker 2: you know, which are apparently quite good for you. And

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Speaker 2: that's also good reason why people like you know, say,

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Speaker 2: a pescatarian diet is better than you know, being eating

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Speaker 2: all the meats, right.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, as long as you can avoid the mercury.

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Speaker 1: So fair enough, fair enough. So they did something that

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Speaker 1: we see pretty often in the US. It's one of

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Speaker 1: our favorite phenomena here. They took the techniques and processes

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Speaker 1: that they already were very familiar with and they substituted

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Speaker 1: ingredients because, surprise, folks, not a lot of Chinese water

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Speaker 1: snakes in the continental US. So they started looking for

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Speaker 1: other snakes. And what do we do when they made

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Speaker 1: this snake oil with the omega three acids that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about there, they would rub it on their joints

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Speaker 1: after a long day of hard labor, and eventually, as

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Speaker 1: they were hanging out with other coworkers and parts of

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Speaker 1: their cohort, they started sharing the oil like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: darn or whatever it s you said. Your knees hurt

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Speaker 1: or your lower back hurts or something like that. Try

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Speaker 1: this just when you get home from work. Just rub

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Speaker 1: this on your joints and it will help soothe the pain.

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Speaker 2: And again, the placebo effect is so strong. You're in

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Speaker 2: a difficult working environment, you are suffering, you know, likely

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Speaker 2: because of long hours and difficult working conditions, and someone

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Speaker 2: offers you a helping hands, someone offers you something that

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Speaker 2: they purported works for me.

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Speaker 1: I swear by this. Try it out. Oh gosh, you're right,

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Speaker 1: it does work.

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Speaker 2: Tell your friends, you know, before you know it, everybody's

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Speaker 2: gaga for this this oil. You know they will, and

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Speaker 2: who knows, man, it could literally just be the fact

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Speaker 2: that it's a slippery, smooth, soothing, cool substance, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It could be as simple as that.

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Speaker 2: And we know that these types of phenomenon are still

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Speaker 2: very powerful to day, you know, because of all of

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Speaker 2: the weird bunk products that get pedled on TV or

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Speaker 2: on like you know, Huckster's like Alex Jones' Network Info Wars,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of that bone broth and things like that,

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Speaker 2: you know whatever. Again, we're not here to debunk any

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Speaker 2: one particular thing, but we know that there are people

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Speaker 2: out there that are trying to prey on those who

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Speaker 2: maybe haven't done their homework or or are just.

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Speaker 1: Are just really desperate and looking for some relief. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we see that people were acting with good intention

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning here they said, we can't find

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Speaker 1: the Chinese water snakes because we're not in China. In

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Speaker 1: the US, people started thinking, well, any snake can work, right,

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Speaker 1: Rattlesnake oil was incredibly popular, Like through the seventeen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: There's this thing I found from December seventeen forty two

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Speaker 1: that show was US snake oil was popular across the

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Speaker 1: pond as well. In the History of the Works of

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Speaker 1: the Learned, Uh, this guy describes three types of oil

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Speaker 1: in the US, snake oil, and says, now three sorts

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Speaker 1: of oil in that country whose virtues are fully proved

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Speaker 1: might not perhaps be found despicable. The oil of drums,

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Speaker 1: the oil of rattlesnakes, and that here's the weird one,

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Speaker 1: and that of turkey busters turkey bustard? Is that a

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Speaker 1: type of vulture? Isn't that what that is? I believe,

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Speaker 1: I believe it is. Yeah, it's a it's a ground

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Speaker 1: Uh it's a ground bird, isn't it? Maybe?

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Speaker 2: So I swear for some reason, I'm thinking turkey vulture.

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Speaker 2: But the word bustered is very old. Yeah, busted bush

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Speaker 2: turkeys and yeah, A man, I love it when you

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Speaker 2: google something and then gain people also ask first one

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Speaker 2: is are bustards good eaten?

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Speaker 4: I got?

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Speaker 1: I got? Why is it called busted? Yeah? What is

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Speaker 1: the largest bustard? What does the bustard look like? Oh? Weird?

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Speaker 1: Bird names are so ridiculous, they are.

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Speaker 2: He's got a real he looks you know, honestly, dude,

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Speaker 2: he really does look more like a vulture. He's got

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Speaker 2: a real long, kind of like snakelike neck, and this

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Speaker 2: one that I'm looking at is covered in feathers. But

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Speaker 2: then he has those real reptilian kind of claws.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel yeah, yeah, yeah, And we know

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Speaker 1: that we also know that people believed in this is

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Speaker 1: genuine medicine. There's a guy named Jeremiah Barker writing for

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Speaker 1: the Medical Repository in New York in eighteen oh two,

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Speaker 1: and he is convinced that you could use what was it,

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Speaker 1: rattlesnake oil and a half a pint of bear grease

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Speaker 1: Jesus to cure yourself of colic. Okay, I don't even

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Speaker 1: I don't even really know what colic is.

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Speaker 2: Colic is none of that babies have. I mean that's specifically.

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Speaker 2: You know, you always hear about colicky babies. They have

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Speaker 2: like a like a coll or, they're like really hard

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Speaker 2: to soothe. But I've never really thought of it being

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Speaker 2: anything that an adult would have. Yeah, colicky crying is louder,

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Speaker 2: more high pitched, and more urgent sounded than regular crying.

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Speaker 2: So this would specifically be a treatment for an infant

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Speaker 2: or a small child.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, let's give them half a pint of bear grease.

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Speaker 1: A bear grease, man, it's a staple item in every household.

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Speaker 1: So bear bear grease is basically just fat from a bear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is actually gonna kind of piggyback onto

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Speaker 2: the question that I was kind of holding in my

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Speaker 2: back pocket here. Rattlesnake oil seems very dangerous to procure

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Speaker 2: as as does bear grease. And it seems like only

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Speaker 2: a certain kind of echelon of like you know, frontiersman's

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Speaker 2: would be able to acquire this stuff, you know, and

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Speaker 2: and live to tell about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's also it still exists today. There's you

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Speaker 1: can find rattlesnake oil online or purported rattlesnake oil. You

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Speaker 1: can also find rattlesnake oil soap apparently, which some people

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Speaker 1: swear by for treating skin conditions. Anyway, this stuff expands

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Speaker 1: pretty soon people are starting to use snake oil not

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Speaker 1: just to refer to medicine, but to all sorts of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It becomes. It becomes a euphemism for liquor, for like

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Speaker 1: hard alcoholic spirits and not as good as old Granddad's

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Speaker 1: leg medicine. No, no, not as good as Grandpa's leg medicine,

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Speaker 1: thank you for shouting that one out. At the end

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Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, snake oil begins to acquire its

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Speaker 1: current meaning. A mixture sould is medicine, usually without regard

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Speaker 1: to its medical worth.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I wonder if that maybe figures into my

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Speaker 2: previous point slash question, like you know you got these

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Speaker 2: the rise of sort of the modern snake oil salesmen

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Speaker 2: who were maybe like, Wow, this snake oil stuff is booming.

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Speaker 1: But snakes are scary.

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Speaker 2: They're all bitey bite and you know, have venomous, you know,

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Speaker 2: big old fangs, and you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Want to mess with that.

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Speaker 2: What if I just like slap something in a bottle

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Speaker 2: and said that's what it was, who's gonna stop me?

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Speaker 2: As you pointed out earlier, Ben, there is no Better

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Speaker 2: Business Bureau, There is no consumer reports, there is no

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Speaker 2: protection or FDA, you know, for that matter, there's nothing

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Speaker 2: in that realm at all to protect consumers from these people.

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Speaker 2: It was all kind of on good faith, and I

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Speaker 2: think even the idea of marketing and stuff was still

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Speaker 2: relatively new in.

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Speaker 1: The United States at this time.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, oh, the door's wide open

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Speaker 2: for bad actors to come creeping in, even if maybe

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Speaker 2: their intentions were good. But I don't think this Clark

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Speaker 2: Stanley Fellow's intentions were ever good.

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Speaker 1: His intentions toward himself were good. Okay, fair, Can you

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about the rattlesnake king? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: former cowboy retires. His name is Clark Stanley. As he said, Noel.

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Speaker 1: His street name is the Rattlesnake King. This is way

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Speaker 1: before Tiger King. Obviously, our buddy Clark stumbles onto this

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Speaker 1: idea and he tells people that after he became a cowboy,

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Speaker 1: he spent years with spiritual leaders in the Hope Native community,

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Speaker 1: mastering quote unquote the secret of snake oil. He gets

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Speaker 1: together with a druggist, a pharmacist basically in Boston, and

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Speaker 1: he begins marketing his product, his snake oil, as the

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Speaker 1: new cure all for whatever ails you. He makes his

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Speaker 1: own patent medicine. He's not the only guy in the

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Speaker 1: game here, but he is one of the most successful.

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Speaker 1: There were tons of what's where we use remedies, tonics,

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Speaker 1: purported medical cures for all kinds of ailments at the time,

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Speaker 1: what about gout? What about gout? While I, of course

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Speaker 1: whileye also drops the left handedness alto m M yeah, yes, shooty.

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Speaker 6: Okay, all right, okay, Ben, I was writing something recently

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Speaker 6: and Andrew Jackson came up, and I was trying to

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Speaker 6: remember every single disease you said Andrew Jackson had when

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Speaker 6: we did our episode about when he beat the crap out.

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Speaker 1: Of it due to the cane. Oh he did do that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: There was a lot of diseases we listed, and dropsy.

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Speaker 1: Was one of them. That's the funniest disease of them all.

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Speaker 1: What is it again? Is it real? What was dropsy?

336
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Speaker 1: It's a dropsy is a less technical term for something

337
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Speaker 1: called edema, Okay, and edema is when a lot of

338
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Speaker 1: watery fluid collects in the cavities of the body. So yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. We'd have to look into the

340
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Speaker 1: etymology of how it became called dropsy. But before we

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Speaker 1: do that, I love the term patent medicine and I

342
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: didn't know much about it. Patent medicine, it turns out,

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00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: have been around in England for a long long time.

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Speaker 1: And I think the reason people loved calling stuff patent

345
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Speaker 1: medicine in the US is because it felt posh, It

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Speaker 1: felt established.

347
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Speaker 2: Is it referring to the idea of being some sort

348
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Speaker 2: of proprietary you know, like patented form of treatment or

349
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Speaker 2: is it or those terms not related?

350
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Speaker 1: No, they are very much recoated. Yeah. Yeah, because patent

351
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Speaker 1: medicines originally named after a certain dispensation given by English royalty.

352
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Speaker 1: You would get the letters patent which is a cosign

353
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Speaker 1: from the big influencers of the day. So the first

354
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: letters patent is given to this guy who evinces a

355
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Speaker 1: secret remedy in the late seventeenth century. And essentially what

356
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: this says is, Hey, we the royal family of England,

357
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Speaker 1: we mess with this guy. We think he's legit and

358
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Speaker 1: only he can make his secret recipe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, after all, it's at least a couple

360
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Speaker 2: of rungs above leeching and blood letting. Yeah, it's not like.

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Speaker 1: They weren't willing to try just about whatever. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right.

363
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Speaker 2: Isn't it funny how the blessing for these kind of

364
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: things came not from a learned body of physicians, but

365
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Speaker 2: specifically from the royal family, who like practiced all of

366
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Speaker 2: these barbaric you know, like trepanation and all of these

367
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 2: like insane treatments over throughout history. You know, they were

368
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Speaker 2: usually popularized by royalty. That's when, like you know, everyone

369
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Speaker 2: else would do He's like, well, the king does it.

370
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Speaker 2: Of course we're gonna do it. Why wouldn't I drill

371
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Speaker 2: a hole in my skull to let the demons out?

372
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Speaker 1: What am I poor? And so the funny thing is

373
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Speaker 1: pat medicine in the US at this time, very few

374
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Speaker 1: products were ever actually patented. Instead, they just slapped the

375
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: word patent on it and sold it from their wagons.

376
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Speaker 1: And these things, these all had amazing names, like the

377
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Speaker 1: early English patent medicines. I thought you would enjoy some

378
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: of these Bateman's pectoral Drops, Turlington's Bosam of Life, and

379
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: of course the troublingly problematic Hooper's female Pills. Yeah.

380
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Speaker 2: Just you know again, that's the funny thing about it,

381
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: is like they're just so broad, it's just beyond suspicious.

382
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 2: But I guess at the time, if you have a

383
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: little alliteration in your title and a snappy label and

384
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: you have patent on there, then you're probably people are

385
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: gonna be like, sure, why not, And we're gonna get

386
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 2: to some of these more like the kind of dogged

387
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: pony show of it all, you know, where you let's

388
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Speaker 2: do a demonstration, you know, like the loaves and fishes

389
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: and everything. I mean, okay, not to compare these guys

390
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: to Jesus Christ. That was maybe a bridge too far,

391
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: but it is all about like, let's make converts of

392
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: you by showing you that this stuff really works, you know,

393
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: right A very public setting. But oftentimes these people were

394
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: employing plants, you know. And what I mean, I don't

395
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: mean like you know, bushes, I mean individuals in the

396
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 2: audience who were paid to do what they ask them

397
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: to do, to like, you know, pretend to be cured instantly,

398
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: very similar to like big tent revivals.

399
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Speaker 1: And all of that stuff.

400
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, jump in here. I have, of course been digging

401
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 6: around on Amazon looking for snake oil, literally snake oil.

402
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 6: I will say, actually, first and foremost, most of the

403
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 6: stuff I find is for snake repellent, which is actually

404
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 6: very useful. My mom uses synthetic wolf you're in to

405
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 6: repel critters around her house Missus Williams, very classic Missus

406
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 6: Williams from repelling them from her plants. But so it

407
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 6: makes sense having snake repellent. But there is I won't

408
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 6: name any brand because I don' want anyone to get

409
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 6: mad at me, but there is one.

410
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 5: It's just a bar of soap. Yes, snake oil.

411
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 6: And if you go to product details, the first one

412
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 6: is is discontinued by manufacturer and colon.

413
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 5: No, No, that's the first thing. That's the first.

414
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 6: The second one is the dimensions. That's the first thing

415
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 6: but I also found this other one, and I don't

416
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 6: know if it actually has snake oil, but it reads

417
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 6: just like something that snake oil as it. You know,

418
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 6: it is a moisturizing facial theorem for anti aging acne

419
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 6: scar treatment, Google massage, face, hair and skin, Google massage.

420
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 6: I have no idea what it is, but I'm just

421
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 6: reading it Vadim.

422
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: Cool.

423
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll put a pin in that, Max with the facts.

424
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 4: That sneaking in the phone and tease fallen knowlsh it's

425
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 4: just for you right now, with the fact.

426
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Or with the.

427
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: Very questionable the pattern facts. Fair enough, that's good, let's

428
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: go with that. But Ben, this is super cool. We've

429
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: got okay, we've got a female I think we last

430
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: left off with Hooper's female pills.

431
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: These were all smashed sensations.

432
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 2: We also have the very aptly named Dicey's Doctor Bateman's Drops.

433
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: Which is confusing. Okay, who is dices Drops or doctor Bateman's.

434
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: It's like that steakhouse that drives me Chris, Yeah, Ruth's

435
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Chris Steakhouse. Why what is going I've been there. It's nice.

436
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: It's a nice place.

437
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: But the nickname or something like Ruth's son's name was

438
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: Chris or something, so it was Ruth's Chris steakhout.

439
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: You know what, they're justified. They're chef's you know, they're

440
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: they're not language doctors, but they make a fine they

441
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: make asteak, yes, sir, And so Dicey's doctor Bateman's drops.

442
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: That came from King George the First and uh it

443
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: was pat and and the pat was granted by King

444
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: George the First in seventeen twenty six. These patent medicines

445
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: we just named were all very popular in North America

446
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: at the time. The American Revolution still hasn't happened, right,

447
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: there's no US to speak of yet, But it didn't

448
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: take long for enterprising Americans to look around and say, hey,

449
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: why are we shipping this stuff all the way from England?

450
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: Why don't we make our own home brewed patent medicine.

451
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: And the numbers and types of medications or panaceas grew

452
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: in the decades leading up through the Revolution all the

453
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: way to the Civil War. It was a great way

454
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: to make money if you weren't concerned about hurting people, right.

455
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: Especially if you weren't concerned about hurting people, because I mean, honestly,

456
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: these folks who decided to get in on this were

457
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: clearly wise to the grift, and they're like, why bother

458
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: importing all this stuff? We know it's bullshit anyway, just

459
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: make it here at home and save us some tax

460
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: and some shipping.

461
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, And at the same time, the Civil War is

462
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: going to be a big, big part of the story here.

463
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: At the same time, we see that there are rapid

464
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: increases in industry, manufacturing, where people are living in cities,

465
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: there's still an absence of drug regulation to your earlier

466
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: excellent point, all of this makes a perfect environment for

467
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: patent medicine, and a lot of people turn to it

468
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: because they didn't trust regular medical practices of the time.

469
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: And this is where we learn about something called heroic medicine.

470
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: So before we call these people dunderheads or anything, we

471
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: have to realize that official accepted medicine at the time

472
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: was pretty gnarly and dangerous.

473
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's's crazy that it was like still,

474
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: you know, even in you know, we're thinking of things

475
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 2: that were maybe popular in the Middle Ages that are

476
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: still kind of the order of the day. You know,

477
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: the idea of regulating humors and stuff using techniques like

478
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: blood letting or you know the the aforementioned you know,

479
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: skull drilling or trepanation. So I mean any promise of

480
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: like a cure that wouldn't require you to be bashed

481
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: over the head with a mallet. You know, it was

482
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: probably gonna be pretty attractive to the average you know consumer.

483
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 6: So you guys want to know it would also be

484
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 6: attractive hearing the story behind Ruth Chris's Steakhouse. So the

485
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 6: story behind it is there was this guy named Chris

486
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 6: who started a steakhouse in New Orleans and he kept

487
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 6: selling it like he started the steakhouse, but he didn't

488
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 6: really want to have it, so he sold it and

489
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 6: he sold it in total six seven times, uh, buying

490
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 6: it back six times because every time he sold it

491
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 6: someone would run into the ground. But the seventh time

492
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 6: he sold it, he sold it to this woman named

493
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 6: Ruth Fortell, who then went on to own it for

494
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 6: a very long time and thus became since it was

495
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 6: Chris's Chris Steakhouse, it became Ruth Chris Steakhouse.

496
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: I believe we have a two fer on Max with

497
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: the facts.

498
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 4: That seeking in the phone and peacefullen.

499
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: Knowl it's just for you right now, and I feel

500
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: dumber for knowing that.

501
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: He kept selling it back.

502
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 6: That's according to this article on the Hill, why is

503
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 6: Ruth Chris Steakhouse called Ruth Chris publish?

504
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: That's a reasonable question.

505
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: It reminds me of like what happens with like a

506
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: lot of you know, Asian restaurants when they like, you know,

507
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: they'd be like.

508
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: Put numbers on stuff, put numbers on them, or be

509
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: like the new version or whatever. Where's trying to drag

510
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: in one? Yeah, that was the good one.

511
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 6: Also special thanks to Michael Bartiromo for writing this article.

512
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 6: I want to make sure you give proper credit to Yeah.

513
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: Sure. So here's the thing. Again, we might sound a

514
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: bit like a broken rec but this is really important.

515
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: Before nineteen oh six, you could put whatever you wanted

516
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: in a bottle and sell it to whomever was dumb

517
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: enough or desperate enough to buy it. Patent medicines didn't

518
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: just not work. They often contain dangerous substances alcohol, opium,

519
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: other narcotics, stuff that's addictive. And again, they didn't have

520
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: to publish a list of ingredients. For instance, you could

521
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: just say, hey, is your child too loud? Take doctor

522
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: bon rouse Patented lithium of letha, you know what I mean.

523
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: Quiet pills. That's something different. Check out stuff. I don't

524
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: want you to know this episode on Lake City Quiet Pills.

525
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: To figure out that you're right, Ben, and I also

526
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: tend to wonder. I'm sure there are ways to test

527
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: for the presence of certain substances, but like probably difficult

528
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: at this point in science for them to be able

529
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: to parse out exactly what was in something.

530
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

531
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: You could probably say, okay, if I you know, drop

532
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: this whatever substance into it, as I can detect the

533
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: presence of alcohol, but probably not the same level of

534
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: precision that they have today when it comes to testing

535
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: for different materials, you know, So there was really no

536
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: way to even call somebody on it. At the very least,

537
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: you know, an average individual who might buy something like

538
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: this and they would have no way of determining what

539
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: was actually.

540
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: In it or not. Literally, they would just run you

541
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: out of town, right, So you had to You had

542
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: to get while the getting was good. After you soldier stuff,

543
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, you would meet the guy you planted in

544
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: the crowd at the crossroads outside of the town or

545
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: city limits. He would hop in the wagon and you

546
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: would be off to whatever is day's ride away.

547
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: It reminds me of a scene in the excellent Paul

548
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson movie The Master where the character played by

549
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: Jaquin Phoenix somebody was named Freddie I can remember his

550
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: last name, but he's in the military, and he his

551
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: whole deal is he can make really good hoos out

552
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: of like whatever's around, like usually involves like photographic chemicals.

553
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: I think at one point he like steals some jet

554
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: fuel and he's just getting you.

555
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: Know, messed up out of his gourd on this stuff.

556
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: And at one point I think he stays behind after

557
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: being discharged from the service and he's living in this

558
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: village like as a farmer, like an itinerant kind of farmer,

559
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: and he gives some of this stuff to an old

560
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: man who ends up dying and they chase him out

561
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: of town literally, you know, run him out on a rail.

562
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: This had to have happened to your point about you know,

563
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: if someone was coming through town and they were selling

564
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: some of this stuff and then somebody died, the only

565
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: recourse was like pitchfork justice.

566
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: You know exactly, tarring feathering run him out out a rail.

567
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: It was a wild time. Back to our buddy Clark Stanley,

568
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: the Rattle State King. The reason we're talking about patent

569
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: medicine is because it's important to know he was just

570
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: one of many, many flim flam artists out there, but

571
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: he had a national breakthrough at the eighteen ninety three

572
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: Worlds Exposition in Chicago. He did a really gross ted talk.

573
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: He took a live snake, he cut it in front

574
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: of the onlookers. That was his spectacle, that was his

575
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: medicine show. And there's a great description of this by

576
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: a guy named Joe Schwartz, director of McGill University's Office

577
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: for Science and Society. It really puts us in the moment. Noel,

578
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: would you be okay with performing this quote in Max?

579
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: Could we get some cool music? Ben? I'm honored, thank you, Okay,

580
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: let's get.

581
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 7: Stanley reached into a sack, plucked out a snake, slit

582
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 7: it open, and plunged it into boiling water. When the

583
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 7: fat rose to the top, he skimmed it off and

584
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 7: used it on the spot to create stan Lee's snakel

585
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 7: a liniment that was immediately snapped up by the throng

586
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 7: that had gathered.

587
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: To watch the spectacle. Yeah, I love the idea. I

588
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: love a good throng, yeah yeah. And eviscerating the snake

589
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: live in front of a crowd was a great way

590
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: to sell things. Medicine shows were all about spectacle, and

591
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: at this point I'm persuaded, you guys, we should do

592
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: an episode on medicine show.

593
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: Wait wait, but before we Yeah, definitely, But is it

594
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: what it sounds like? I guess in my mind, I

595
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: always think of a medicine show as being like literally

596
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: kind of a traveling variety show. But wasn't was the

597
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: purpose of it to pedal some of these types of

598
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: weird cure alls.

599
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: They were a part of it. Yeah, they were a

600
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: part of it, Like you're right with a variety show there,

601
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: but there was medicine involved, you know. So this guy

602
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: Stanley brilliant marketing, even though he's probably a very bad person.

603
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: He sells this snake oil liniment all the way up

604
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: until nineteen sixteen. He makes a lot of money. He's

605
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: going gangbusters with it. The problem is there are two

606
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: big issues with Stanley's snake oil. First, we have to mention,

607
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: even if you believe everything Stanley says, rattle snake oil

608
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: is way less effective than that Chinese water snake oil

609
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: it was trying to emulate. Chinese water snake oil contained

610
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: almost triple the amounts of the Mega three's the vital

611
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: acids as rattlesnake oil. But that's not even the big problem.

612
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: The big problem is Stanley snake oil did not have

613
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: any snake oil in it, right.

614
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, that was sort of I think both

615
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: of our the conjecture there at the top, where it's like,

616
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: you know, what, what if I just slapped a label

617
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 2: on it saying that it had the thing and it

618
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: didn't have any of the thing, and that makes it

619
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: a hell of a lot easier for.

620
00:36:58,760 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: Me, you know.

621
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: And then well then it all revolves around showmanship. It

622
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: all revolves around the sales pitch, you know, because again

623
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: there's zero accountability for these folks. And by the way,

624
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: I was just googling medicine show just to get a sense,

625
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: you know, all amazing posters that you can find that

626
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: are associated with some beautiful and this one here is

627
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: called Hamlin's Wizard Oil, the great medical wonder.

628
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: There is no sword. It will not heal, no pain,

629
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: it will not subdu Let's not forget. Let's not forget it.

630
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: Second on the poster, like the opening act, Hamlin's cough

631
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: Balsam pleasant to take, magical in its effects.

632
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 6: Then what you're saying is the only thing less effective

633
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 6: than snake oil is not snake oil.

634
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: Yes, Someway, Yes, Max, that is unfortunately true. These start

635
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: to go sideways for our boy Clark in the early

636
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds because of something called the Pure Food and

637
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: Drug Act of nineteen oh six.

638
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: Thank god, by the way, finally we're here a little

639
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: bit of accountability. I think didn't The Jungle have something

640
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: to do with this? That book, Upton Sinclair? Finally people

641
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: were aware of how disgusting and crooked like, you know,

642
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: a lot of industrial processes were around things that were

643
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: being consumed by Americans every day.

644
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: The Jungle is an excellent book. If you have not

645
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: read it yet, please do. I know that sometimes books

646
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: from that period of time they get unfairly called, you know,

647
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: difficult to read or something. But Upton Sinclair writes in

648
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: a very lucid, very readable style. And The Jungle did

649
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: change the course of US history.

650
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 2: And he was a real not agitator. That sounds an

651
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: outdated world, but he was a political figure he had

652
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: like serious yeah.

653
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

654
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: He was a big force in speaking truth to power

655
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: and like, you know, holding people accountable for their misdeeds.

656
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, he would rake that muck for sure. And

657
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: so Uncle Sam seizes a shipment of Stanley's snake oil

658
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen, and the FEDS say, hang on a tick,

659
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: this has mineral oil. It has some kind of fatty

660
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: oil from an animal, but this is definitely beef and

661
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: then as turpentine and red pepper. So as they're examining

662
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: his product, they find it has no snake oil, no

663
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: provable medicinal properties, and they eventually find Charles Stanley drum

664
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: roll please, twenty dollars. That's that's about five hundred bucks today. Yeah,

665
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: that's that's the old slap on the wrist there. I

666
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: wonder if you add the hot pepper just to make

667
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: people give give a sense of that snaky bite, you know,

668
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: this is the snakiness of it all. Yeah, yeah, right,

669
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: I taste the rattlesnak taste the venom. So we haven't

670
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: even got right.

671
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we're gonna get into this, and I

672
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 2: think it's really interesting. But the idea of like when

673
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: we're talking about these poisonous snakes and they're oil. Venom

674
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: hasn't really entered into the conversation at all. But that's

675
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: a whole other thing, right, the idea of like anti

676
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: venom and using that to treat people with snake bite

677
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: or to like prevent people from getting ill, you know,

678
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: when they're when they're actually.

679
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: Infected with the venom. Well, I'm sorry, we'll get to that.

680
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: But that red pepper thing got me because that's like,

681
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: that's what they want you to think. It's like they

682
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: also I think there probably was a bit of a

683
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 2: bravado involved in it. The sales pits like, oh, I'm

684
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: drinking the snake juice, you know, like I'm a big

685
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: tough man.

686
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: It's like drinking it's like drinking those spirits where they have,

687
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, a worm in the bottle of tequila or

688
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: a snake in liquor, which I've tried. Have you guys

689
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: ever eaten steaks? I've had.

690
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: I have had like snake you know, nuggets or something

691
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: like that, you know, like probably jerky form sure, and

692
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I've had some like rattlesnake jerky.

693
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: It's good.

694
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 2: It's kind of gamey and it's got a nice like

695
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: snap to it. But I feel like when I've had

696
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: snake in fried kind of nugget for him, it sort

697
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 2: of tastes like chicken anything that's fair.

698
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: What about you? Max? What about you?

699
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 6: At first, I was gonna say no, I don't think

700
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 6: I have it. As soon as Noel said Jerky, I'm like, oh,

701
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 6: you know what? That rings a bell. I cannot think

702
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 6: of like a specific time I've had it, But I'm

703
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know. I think it's been discussed

704
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 6: on here, and we did our cricket episode a couple

705
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 6: of years ago. I'll pretty much eat anything.

706
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Uh huh, old snake, snake Jerky Williams, they call him

707
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: out in Oklahoma.

708
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 5: Let's get Max with the facts.

709
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Right there.

710
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 4: Is that sneaking in the phone, and he's fallen. Know

711
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 4: it's just for you right now here with the fat.

712
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: Oh man? All right? Okay, So we have to admit

713
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: people probably did die as a result of this quackery.

714
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: While the potion itself may not have poisoned them, it

715
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: definitely did not help with whatever maladies they suffered from.

716
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: And at this point, there is zero evidence that Clark

717
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: Stanley himself believed in what he sold. This was definitely

718
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: a grift, and the outrage of the American public over

719
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: Stanley snake Oil led to better regulation for American consumers.

720
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: People from every imaginable demographic except for snake oil salesman said, Hey,

721
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: you know what, we should be able to trust that

722
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: the stuff we buy is you know what we thought

723
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: we were buying. And I love that you mentioned Upton

724
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: Sinclair that book specifically about stockyards. And there's another author

725
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: around the same time, a writer named Samuel Hopkins Adams,

726
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: who does a lot of muck raking on the dirty,

727
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: dirty business of patent medicine manufacturers.

728
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: Not to mention our buddy Teddy Roosevelt. Really, you know,

729
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: we know him as like a bit of a naturalist,

730
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: and so he rides rough Yeah, he's a rough He's

731
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: a rough rider. He can't deny it. You don't want

732
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: to f with him, You just don't want to. On

733
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: June thirtieth, nineteen oh six, he was responsible for signing

734
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 2: into law the Federal Food and Drug Act, which was

735
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: then amended in nineteen twelve and strengthened created turned into

736
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: rather the even more powerful and actionable Food, Drug and

737
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: Cosmetic Act, which was passed in nineteen thirty eight. This

738
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: required extensive labeling to include lists of ingredients and also

739
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: for four manufacturers of these types of products, And it

740
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 2: also prohibited manufacturers from making faults and or miss leading claims.

741
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: And as we know, when these kinds of laws happen,

742
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: it's like people find loopholes. They always have to kind

743
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: of be adjusted and you have to sort of keep

744
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: after folksuse everyone's going to kind of try their best

745
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: to get around it. But these were meaningful changes, wouldn't

746
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: you say, Ben? At this point, yes, one hundred percent.

747
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: It sounds crazy to realize that there had to be

748
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: federal legislation just to get ingredients on products, and it's

749
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: incredibly important. The law required not a full ingredient list

750
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: at first. It just said, hey, if you have.

751
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: The following things in your product, you have to put

752
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: it on the label. What kind of substances alcohol, morphine, opium, cocaine, heroine,

753
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: something called ukin which I wasn't familiar with, chloroform, cannabis

754
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: or acetanylide or chloral hydrate, a bunch of you know, addictive,

755
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: dangerous stuff. They were basically saying, if people are giving

756
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: their children opium or laudanum. They should know. I feel

757
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: like that's very reasonable. Oh definitely.

758
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 6: Also, ukine is a drug that was previously used as

759
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 6: a local.

760
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: Anesthetic, yeah, like lynacane you know right right sign.

761
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 6: As an analog of cocaine, and it was one of

762
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 6: the first synthetic chemical compounds to find general use as

763
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 6: an anesthetic, of course, going from Wikipedia right here.

764
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: Well, of course it's interesting that with cocaine.

765
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: You know, we know how prevalent that was in all

766
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 2: kinds of products, you know, even down to like coca cola.

767
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: Classic that's what that's the classic stands for it, I

768
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: mean cocaine.

769
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 6: Cocaine and cocaine similar things had been used for a

770
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 6: long time.

771
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, like well generally anesthetic too, like because I mean

772
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 2: then you found, you know, in some of our tangents

773
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 2: and trivia sections can be some of the most fun

774
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: bits of these episodes that cocaine was actually used, Like

775
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: it could be rubbed onto the eye like to make

776
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: it like kind of still movable, like ill mobile, but

777
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: also it would like allow you to it would numb pain,

778
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: you know, kind of in and around that area in

779
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: case some surgery, but it wouldn't paralyze the thing, you know.

780
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: And then, of course, as we know, I mean, pharmaceutical

781
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: grades of a lot of these drugs were widely available

782
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 2: for a very long time, not only in products that

783
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't clear if that's what was in it,

784
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: but also just on their own. You could go down

785
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: the street and get like, you know, heroin, You could

786
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: get heroin at the pharmacy with I believe, without a prescription.

787
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct. And it wasn't until nineteen thirty eight

788
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: that the US government required all ingredients to be listed

789
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: on products. This was the direct result of the brujaja

790
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: surrounding Clark Stanley and Stanley's snake oil. People back then

791
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: were just as smart as people are today. They worked

792
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: with the info they had, But desperation breeds all kinds

793
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: of strange beliefs. So it's surprised that this kind of

794
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: quack medicine continues in the modern day. I love that

795
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 1: you mentioned anti venom. I think it's a very uncreative name,

796
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 1: but it's it's nuts anti matter, right, right, What is this, Well,

797
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: it's not matter, so it's definitely not venom. Is the

798
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: thing you need to know. The way it works is

799
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: you inject a mammal like a sheep, for instance, with

800
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: snake venom, hope the sheep survives and then harvest the

801
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: antibodies it produces.

802
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the same sort of concept as the vaccine

803
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: you like, and you take a little bit of the

804
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: of the virus and it causes your body to produce

805
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 2: these antibodies, right.

806
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, antibodies as well. What is this? It's not

807
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: a body, the opposite basically, And with that we are

808
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: gonna have to call it a day, Nol. I think

809
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: both of us are kind of sad about this because

810
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious that we're in love with the ridiculous

811
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: aspects of medicine shows and crazy patent remedies.

812
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'm sure some of these were events

813
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: to behold, you know, like with all the picking and

814
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 2: grinning and all of that stuff. Probably some warsh tub

815
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: bas being played, you know, the old thing with the

816
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 2: with the.

817
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: Spoons and all of that. Yeah, but you're right, I mean,

818
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: it's it is.

819
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: It's not that much different than modern day music festivals

820
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: that are sponsored by like Red Bull, you know. I mean,

821
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: this is like the medicine was the reason for the event.

822
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 2: The music was just sort of ancillary to get people

823
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: to hang out so they would like buy the product.

824
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: And now it's like with these music festivals, it's all

825
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: just at marketing. Man, it's all just advertising, you know,

826
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: like to get you to buy your thirty five dollars

827
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: Red Bull and Tito's in a special cup.

828
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: Do you uh? Do you know what? Handboning is?

829
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: Kind of like spoons, but without spoons, spoons with just

830
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: like yeah, like slapping your exactly.

831
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: Let me show him not doing a very good job.

832
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: You know you're doing a great job. Max. I don't

833
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: know if we're going to use this audio, but just

834
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: before he wrapped today, I've got to show you my

835
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 1: one of my favorite hamdboning videos. I'm the hamd bonist

836
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: in the group. You're not sure what that is. It's

837
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: a person who practices hand boning. And when I started

838
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: this way back a long time ago. We don't need

839
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: the preface here, boner to take a couple of minutes,

840
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: he described the scene here, Well, he kind of looks

841
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: like a member of the Grateful Dead.

842
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: He's seated in a okay, he's sort of slapping his

843
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: yeah here all here, How can I not.

844
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: He's got he's got a bunch of people sitting around

845
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: in a circle and they're watching him rhythmically slap his

846
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: will thighs.

847
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's sort of slapping both the inner and outer

848
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: portion of his legs and alternating back and forth. And

849
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: now he's doing a windmill kind of move. Yeah, he's

850
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: really bringing the heat. Yeah, I let it. Steve Hickman

851
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 2: hamd Bonus. Yeah, it's also great he has a lot

852
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: of oh wow. Yeah, he's got a lot.

853
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 6: Of microphones around him to make sure he captures all

854
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 6: of its.

855
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I do want to point out this guy

856
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: isn't very good. You don't think he's very good.

857
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 2: I just think he could probably be rocking some more

858
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: complex rhythms than this guy. And he sees he looks

859
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: he's taking it so seriously, but I look at the

860
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 2: little face.

861
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: I just I just.

862
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 2: Think, you know, like if I'm going to Cheez Louise,

863
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 2: if I'm comparing this to like bucket drummers or something

864
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: like that.

865
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: This guy's not that he's not doing it for me, right.

866
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: I appreciate like the craft and the visual part of it,

867
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: but the rhythm part of it.

868
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: Is just wow. I'm more interested in this spectacle that's

869
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: what I mean.

870
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 2: You're right, and that's why we were listening to it

871
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 2: in an audio podcast. But I hope we did an

872
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: okay job of describing it. Probably would have been some

873
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: hamd bonis hanging out at these medicine shows, yo, one

874
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: hundred percent.

875
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And with that, we're going to we're going to

876
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: head off to the dusty trail. We're onto another town

877
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: to pedal our podcast wares. In the meantime, we want

878
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: to thank everybody for tuning in. Thanks to all our

879
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. Thanks to the medicine man, mister Max Williams.

880
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 4: What kind of.

881
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: Patent medicine with Jonathan Strickland pedal.

882
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 5: Instant death, instant hair growth.

883
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: Oh, come on, that's a little below the belt.

884
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 5: Nothing's below the belt when it comes to the quistor.

885
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: That's fair. Who else should we think? Oh?

886
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: In I was obviously, we'll thank you, surprising the owners

887
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 2: here in spirit he was Jeff co Uh you Ben,

888
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: we already think Max.

889
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: I think that that does it for the thank yous.

890
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks.

891
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

892
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,