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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You?

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Speaker 1: From House stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today is

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Speaker 1: a special episode of Stuff Mom Never Told You for

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Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. First of which, we are going

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Speaker 1: in depth on something that we have mentioned a couple

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Speaker 1: of times in the podcast before, but have never really

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Speaker 1: really covered more in depth, like I just said, in depth.

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Speaker 1: Uh And and that's sex work, also known as prostitution,

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Speaker 1: but we are going to refer to it today as

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Speaker 1: sex work, which is a positive term coined in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty by sex work activist Carol Lee, and it implies

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Speaker 1: consensual work on on the part of the woman, man,

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Speaker 1: transgender individual involved in it. And to talk to us

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Speaker 1: today about her experience in sex work is Melissa Petro,

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Speaker 1: who is a freelance writer right now, but she also

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Speaker 1: acquired the not so wonderful nickname of the Hooker Teacher

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Speaker 1: and a scandal that broke out a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: Right in September, Petre spoke out against Craigslist shutting down

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Speaker 1: its Adult Services section, and she she sort of came

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Speaker 1: out as a former sex worker because she said that

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Speaker 1: I think if you're going to state an opinion, you

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Speaker 1: ought to be able to back it up with your credentials.

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Speaker 1: As she was saying to Marie Claire, she says that

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people have such strong opinions about

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Speaker 1: sex work and yet they have no experience or personal

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Speaker 1: knowledge whatsoever. And when she came out with this uh

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Speaker 1: column in the Huffington's Post, she was currently employed by

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Speaker 1: the New York City School System as an art teacher,

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Speaker 1: and the New York Post did some very intensive digging

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Speaker 1: and outed her as a former sex worker. We should

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Speaker 1: clarify that she was not engaging in sex work while

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Speaker 1: she was um a teacher, and as a result of

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Speaker 1: the media uproar um she was reassigned by the school

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Speaker 1: system to desk duty and then she ultimately resigned in

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Speaker 1: January eleven, and since then she has been doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of work with sex Work Activism to to get

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Speaker 1: people's voices who are in the industry um out there,

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Speaker 1: to understand people's experiences and really bring things out of

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Speaker 1: the shadows and also delineate between consensual sex work and

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Speaker 1: non consensual sex trafficking. UM So, enough of us talking.

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Speaker 1: Here is our interview with Melissa petro Um and first up,

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Speaker 1: she's gonna kind of get us the backstory of what

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Speaker 1: life has been like post resignation. I guess I technically

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Speaker 1: or officially refined in April of two thousand and eleven.

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Speaker 1: I knew many months before that that I had surfer

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Speaker 1: or been forced to certainder my career as an outlementary

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Speaker 1: school teacher. So since then, I've been working as a

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Speaker 1: freelance writer. I've write for uh different places, Salon, I'm

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Speaker 1: a regular contributor at Jane, I did the column for

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Speaker 1: Mitch and for Daily be talking to post to different places.

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Speaker 1: Uh So I'm working full time at that and I'm

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Speaker 1: also like teach creative bringing two adults at a continuing

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Speaker 1: education school here in New York. And this spring I'll

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Speaker 1: be working with Red Umbrella, which is an organization of

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Speaker 1: Primes Services, two survivors of the sex in industry, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to say that I'll be working with

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Speaker 1: them to create a creative raining program current and former

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Speaker 1: sex workers who are interested in UM getting more tools

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Speaker 1: to tell their stories through different literary venues. So I

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Speaker 1: guess all of that's been since, uh since I resigned,

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Speaker 1: and the then obviously before that. You know, when I

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Speaker 1: come forward on the Huffington Post, um I should I

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Speaker 1: guess I should say, you know, it was really it

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Speaker 1: wasn't my attention to call attention to myself in the

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Speaker 1: way that that article did, But ultimately the attention was called,

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Speaker 1: and I think that the message was really clear after that.

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Speaker 1: It was swift and loud and pretty resolute. And if

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Speaker 1: you have a history like mine in an opinion on

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Speaker 1: sex work that differs from any of the common views,

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Speaker 1: that you really need to keep it to yourself. And

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Speaker 1: uh so its including myself. I really dedicated myself to

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Speaker 1: promoting the opposite of that message. So through things like

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Speaker 1: uh the column at Bitch Magazine or the Becoming Writer's

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Speaker 1: projects with Umbrella, really promote this message that everyone, particularly

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Speaker 1: people who have been historically rendered visible, has the right

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Speaker 1: to be seen and heard. Now, some of the first

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Speaker 1: writing that Melissa did on sex work was for her

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Speaker 1: thesis actually at Antioch College called Selling Sex Women's participation

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Speaker 1: in the sex industry, and so he wanted to get

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Speaker 1: her insight on this intersection between academia and um sex

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Speaker 1: work because at the time she I believe she was

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Speaker 1: stripping while she um when she started working on her thesis.

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Speaker 1: So we asked her to catch us up and let

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Speaker 1: us know how she first got involved in sex work,

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Speaker 1: and how that led to her thesis, and how that

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Speaker 1: writing that thesis informed her job, the whole, the whole

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Speaker 1: cycle there was for her before as the researcher. A

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Speaker 1: definitely strip work before I was a sex worker, announce

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Speaker 1: since worker and clothes um. But I started stripping in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: I'm just doing abroad, living in Waca, Mexico, and I

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Speaker 1: ran out light, ran out of a credit My credit

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Speaker 1: card was one day denied at a grocery store, and uh,

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Speaker 1: at that time I needed decision to start starting. I

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Speaker 1: worked at a club called La Trumpa, The Traps, the Tramp,

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Speaker 1: and I started then. Uh what it came on and

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Speaker 1: off for a well five years, I starts. In over

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Speaker 1: a decade, I was in summers involved in sex work.

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Speaker 1: But I should say before all that my my best

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Speaker 1: friend at high school, Uh, Jane, had to call me

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Speaker 1: one semester before I was speaking up from Mexico and

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Speaker 1: she told me that Jade started stripping, and at that

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Speaker 1: time I had I'd just taken my first witness studies course. Ever,

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Speaker 1: so I was jumping introduced to feminism and I was

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Speaker 1: very excited by that. But then my friend Jennie calling

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Speaker 1: really confused. Maybe everything I had to talk about seminism

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Speaker 1: pastradicted insect work, feminism infect work contradicted entirely with what

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Speaker 1: I knew about Jennie. I you know, she wasn't a

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Speaker 1: big she had been forced, she wasn't stupid, she was

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Speaker 1: very intelligent, and according to her, she was making a

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Speaker 1: choice that she felt would improve her life. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I actually went to visit Jennie next club and I

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Speaker 1: really got a sense of why she was intrigued sensed

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Speaker 1: work and why she felt it was uh going to

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Speaker 1: improve her her life. And my thesis then a year later,

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Speaker 1: was making sense of my experience and myself. UM, I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to other women talk about their experiences, women like

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Speaker 1: myself and women like jen who were consensual effect workers, UM,

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Speaker 1: who were in some ways able to reconcile themselves as

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Speaker 1: stigma imposed upon and by their work. So that was

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Speaker 1: really my intention of doing that thesis was more to

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Speaker 1: make sense of myself and my own experience than she

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Speaker 1: out to contribute to the body of research into Hopefully

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Speaker 1: I want to do that too. Now. According to the

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Speaker 1: Sex Workers Project, there are millions of people involved in

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Speaker 1: sex work worldwide, some consensual, some not. But we do

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Speaker 1: tend to have this view of sex workers as individuals

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Speaker 1: who are weak needs saving, kind of looking at them

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Speaker 1: under one umbrella as being the same type of person.

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Speaker 1: But really there's a lot of gray area, and there's

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Speaker 1: not this need to treat them so paternalistically and mosta.

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Speaker 1: Petro made a great point in a blog series that

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Speaker 1: she wrote for Bitch magazine talking about the language of

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Speaker 1: empowerment when it comes to sex work, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of times sex work is framed as this infeminist discourse

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Speaker 1: as something that can be empowering for women when it

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Speaker 1: is consensual. But um, when you actually we get to

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Speaker 1: the one on one experiences of women and men and

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Speaker 1: transgendered people in the industry, um, it's not. It's not

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Speaker 1: such an either or type of situation, right, It's it's

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Speaker 1: a labor issue. Well, I really really first began thinking

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Speaker 1: of myself as a firmness and looking at feminists uh

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Speaker 1: knowledge in respect to sex work. There was really two camps, right,

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Speaker 1: sex workers were either empowered apparently or oppressed it inherently.

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Speaker 1: And it has my own experience and having six six

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Speaker 1: glues to other women, I knew that performance a monolithic

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Speaker 1: group that was I are apparently oppressed or inparently empowered. UM.

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Speaker 1: Women's stories were diverse and as an individual as the

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Speaker 1: individuals I spoken to us, they were good, they are bad,

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Speaker 1: They aren't sibilant. And I think that my reach just

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Speaker 1: really wanted to explore all the constellations of circumstances that

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Speaker 1: have but individuals to choose uh hemper. So I do

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Speaker 1: think that for many people sector potage choice UM. My

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Speaker 1: research argues that it's the best choice given the option

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Speaker 1: that people who choose sex work perceive is available to them.

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Speaker 1: So that goes from the you know, happy hooker model

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Speaker 1: all the way down. Even now studies UM there was

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Speaker 1: just a study connected by Jackson in college here in

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Speaker 1: New York City. The study called Lost Boys. And it's

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Speaker 1: really a generate of evidence that's is true even for

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Speaker 1: the most sinogram chats among individuals who tell text or

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Speaker 1: true trade texts for things they need. We have study

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Speaker 1: specifically with it. UM under age boy. So um, even

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Speaker 1: the group was recording that they were making a decision

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Speaker 1: to engage in this lifestyle because it was solving a problem,

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Speaker 1: and so that was a solution to that problem. So

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Speaker 1: I would really argue that problematic to take away that

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Speaker 1: option without first or in tandem solving the problem. That

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Speaker 1: it's at a strong individuals to make that choice. You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's pro poverty or economics need um, And I

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Speaker 1: would say that whether a choice is empowered or not

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Speaker 1: is really for an individual to decide. It's not for

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Speaker 1: me or another researcher to decide. And one of the

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Speaker 1: most compelling distinctions that Melissa made was between being pro

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Speaker 1: sex worker and pro sex work industry, because, as you'll explain,

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Speaker 1: you can be one and not the other. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's a it's a it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: good way of understanding some of the tenants of sex

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Speaker 1: work activism and why that exists. I'd like to make

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Speaker 1: of myself as pro sext for her, I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: necessarily pro sect industry. Um isn't the environment within which

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Speaker 1: that industry operates. But um, to be pro sect worker,

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Speaker 1: I think really means meeting people where they're at and

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Speaker 1: get even resources to make choices that are right for them.

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Speaker 1: So I would say means identifying sex for first concerns

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Speaker 1: with sex workers as a part of that conversation, and

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Speaker 1: then letting um letting tech for health accuts or current

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Speaker 1: and former sex rebdon other community introvened in their own

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Speaker 1: lives and ways that matter. Um. It also I think

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Speaker 1: really means believing people among that community who say they

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Speaker 1: don't need help at all, which there's certainly a large

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Speaker 1: contingency saying that's very lovely. And speaking of the cultural

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Speaker 1: taboo of consensual sex work, just the very act of

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Speaker 1: paying for sex still seems like such a huge cultural taboo,

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Speaker 1: even though prostitution has existed for so long throughout history. UM.

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Speaker 1: And yet in in as quote unquote open as we

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Speaker 1: might be, or more open as we might be um

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Speaker 1: regarding sex in our culture, although some people might might

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Speaker 1: argue that that's not entirely the case, um, but I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to ask the less out why that taboo

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Speaker 1: of exchanging money for sex still exists sexus any hand

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Speaker 1: or afformative like situation. I think it is still tabooted

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Speaker 1: in h in the column and interview with Dylan Ryan,

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Speaker 1: and she did great job of adjecting, you know what,

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Speaker 1: what is this um? And she spoke as of where

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Speaker 1: a woman who makes poor and talked about how her

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Speaker 1: sexuality is signified UM for more than one reason and

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Speaker 1: actually really tries to make sense of her sexuality in

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Speaker 1: despite the best stigma. And I think it's should runs

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Speaker 1: to the website and read exactly what she said, butts

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Speaker 1: paraphrase her. I think she has said, you know, it

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Speaker 1: really comes down to fearing what we don't know. And

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Speaker 1: people who are afraid of sex workers so I think

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Speaker 1: because they think they've never read one, you know, just

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Speaker 1: like no one looks at porn right now. Well, the

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Speaker 1: mannerity is that most people have passively met a sex worker,

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Speaker 1: or they think they haven't bet sex workers because sex

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Speaker 1: workers really are in former sex or stay closeted about

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Speaker 1: the perfessions of why we stay closeted because well it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: So it's really that the terrible cycle of weakness is

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Speaker 1: something we just don't talk about, even whether or not

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Speaker 1: people are participating. Petro goes on to say that even

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Speaker 1: in a perfect world, we would still have people who

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Speaker 1: want to pay for sex. So the sex trade would

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Speaker 1: not entirely disappear even in some utopia. Absolutely, I think

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Speaker 1: in a perfect world of an absolutely silly sex work,

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Speaker 1: I just think in this perfect world would be problem

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Speaker 1: with text and it would be problem with time because

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Speaker 1: uh well, I guess in the perfect world, you know,

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Speaker 1: a world without social economic injustices, all the dangers of

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Speaker 1: selling texts do all the dangers that we attribute as

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Speaker 1: being inherit to the perfection, I think those wouldn't exist.

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Speaker 1: So I think that would be the different Now. I

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Speaker 1: have a feeling that, um, there is probably a discomfort

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Speaker 1: for people who are not familiar with sex work activism

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Speaker 1: with it with notion of um, consensual sex work, of

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Speaker 1: kind of bringing sex work out of the shadows and

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Speaker 1: opening it up a bit, because there's this whole other

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Speaker 1: side of the coin, which is sex trafficking and people

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Speaker 1: being forced into prostitution, that kind of sexual slavery. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to also find out from Melissa how

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Speaker 1: sex work activism can negotiate between consensual and non consensual,

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Speaker 1: whether or not you can protests for or promote sex

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Speaker 1: worker rights while also ensuring that you aren't promoting sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking at the same time, because it's still seems like

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Speaker 1: those kind of conversations or consensual sex work and sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking are still very much tangled up in the cultural mindset. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And going back to the Sex Workers Project, they say

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Speaker 1: that confusing sex workers with trafficked persons erases the voice

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Speaker 1: of sex workers worse since their working conditions adds to

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Speaker 1: their general stigmatization and impedes discussions on ways to end

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Speaker 1: human trafficking. So it's important to give people a voice

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Speaker 1: in this arena. Unfortunate today that it is still challenging,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's the reason why it's challenging is

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Speaker 1: because there's this disconception prevalent that there really isn't a

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Speaker 1: difference at all. Sex work is some form of sexual slavery.

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Speaker 1: And blame Pepanism for that being large part. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really been adapted by popular culture, the idea that

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Speaker 1: all sex workers sex laboring, all sex work is sex trafficking,

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Speaker 1: all sex work is underage sex work or fineration, sex

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Speaker 1: trade or sex flavory. You don't really think of underage

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Speaker 1: sex work. But there's important point. I think we have

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Speaker 1: to be gained by acknowledging that there there are two

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Speaker 1: different when two different issues, one in sex trafficking and

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Speaker 1: that is different from contentual effect working. You can absolutely

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Speaker 1: improved conditions for sex workers by choice. Um, while embatting

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking, I think finally we're we're ready to have

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Speaker 1: that conversation as activists. Um. I don't think anyone would

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Speaker 1: argue that someone should be led under false pree tests

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Speaker 1: into a job that they don't want. Uh. So I

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Speaker 1: think the question of sex trafficking is really a question

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Speaker 1: of waiver and labor protection and protecting individuals, human rights

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Speaker 1: and workers right. Because it's sex, I think it gets

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Speaker 1: um playing with yuh, it becomes a different conversation. But really, uh,

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking and trafficking is not just sex trafficking. Domestics

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Speaker 1: are trafficked. Individuals are trafficked um for further labor, against

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Speaker 1: their under false pretests and against their will for different reasons.

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Speaker 1: But when you start to talk about sex, you know,

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Speaker 1: we think of it as differently. And really I think

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Speaker 1: that those those individuals, those humans deserve this name protections

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Speaker 1: that any other things. There So a lot of my

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Speaker 1: Melissa's work that she has done and the women that

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Speaker 1: she has talked to has really focused on um, just

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Speaker 1: women in sex work, and when we asked her about

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Speaker 1: whether working conditions are different for queer, transgender, and male

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Speaker 1: sex workers, she brought up a really good point that

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Speaker 1: by virtue of her being a white female, she has

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Speaker 1: been inherently in a position of more privilege, being able

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Speaker 1: to speak out and having her story resonate more possibly

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Speaker 1: in the public eye, because she does fit that stereotypical

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Speaker 1: mold of what we might think of when we think

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Speaker 1: of a sex worker. And UM. So we want to

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Speaker 1: play this part of the interview because privilege and sex

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Speaker 1: work might not um might not seem like two themes

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Speaker 1: that would go together, but in Melissa's experience, she emphasizes

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Speaker 1: over and over again that she actually has UM she

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Speaker 1: has had a position of more privilege than a lot

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Speaker 1: of sex workers out there. I realized that, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of the interesting my story is because I'm a heterosexual, UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm a white woman. I have a certain look. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's like, uh that there's a lot of privilege that

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Speaker 1: comes with having Anyone with a platform has a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of privilege. And I understand that my platform is

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Speaker 1: available to me because I appear this way. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I also I mean that said, you know, I can

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Speaker 1: only feel I still can only speak from my experience,

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Speaker 1: and I wouldn't ever purport to I have never I

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Speaker 1: haven't done work with queer or male sex workers. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't try to speak for them. I really think I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge fan of self representation and believing that people

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Speaker 1: should be uh given voice and give visibility to speak

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Speaker 1: for themselves. Uh So to learn about the working conditions

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Speaker 1: of these populations, I could say, we have to go

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Speaker 1: to those populations. And that's that I can think just

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Speaker 1: at the top of my hand. There's a place called

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Speaker 1: hook online at work, which is about easy the magazine

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Speaker 1: if that's all by for and about men in sex industry.

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Speaker 1: So they're creating their own platform, and and that's absolutely necessary.

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Speaker 1: So people like me who have a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: privilege and a certain platform, you know, I do think

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Speaker 1: that a responsibility of my is to not just my story,

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Speaker 1: but to create a platform like what happening with our

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Speaker 1: Umbrella or even better way I did with that Bit magazine,

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Speaker 1: where I included other other for groups voices that you know,

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Speaker 1: they're I could relate to or not at all. According

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Speaker 1: to the Sex Workers Project. For many people's sex workers

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Speaker 1: their best, or even their only, opportunity to earn enough

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Speaker 1: money to support their families. Like all people's, sex workers

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Speaker 1: need empowerment through access to healthcare, job training, education, and

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Speaker 1: in to discrimine anation and opportunities to make a living wage.

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Speaker 1: In more than one way, they also face a social

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Speaker 1: stigma they can prohibit their movement into other forms of labor.

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Speaker 1: So not only is their past work experience prohibiting them

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Speaker 1: from possibly getting a better job and more acceptable, socially

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Speaker 1: acceptable line of work, but also they're used to getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of money pretty fast. Um. So that's why

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Speaker 1: we wanted to find out whether or not retiring from

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Speaker 1: sex work might be harder than we might think, because certainly,

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Speaker 1: um prostitution sex work is is rarely considered a long

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Speaker 1: term career goal. But when women or men or transgender

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Speaker 1: people do make up their minds that they want to

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Speaker 1: move on beyond it, stepping out can can be challenging.

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Speaker 1: As Petro herself experienced, I could say that, after having

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Speaker 1: working in our industry, unwilling to do the same kind

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Speaker 1: of working class and working poor jobs, but I had

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Speaker 1: not prior to discover and sex work. I just was

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Speaker 1: not going to work for a minimum wage. Uh. You

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Speaker 1: know there was there's obviously society was very little bay

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Speaker 1: maybe even the work of sex work. But uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a women, I hae said, you know, there's really

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Speaker 1: take to be being poor either and at least you

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Speaker 1: know you can make the money you make and not

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Speaker 1: care what people think. Uh, then to be poor and

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Speaker 1: and and to be inta behind by that. So I

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Speaker 1: think that you know, for me also there was a

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Speaker 1: huge chap eployment history and I just wasn't willing to

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Speaker 1: work to do that that la or anymore. Um So

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Speaker 1: for someone like me who would come from or working

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Speaker 1: for background, I didn't have a lot of um insurance

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Speaker 1: in returning to that. And I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: some women that it can become a m I think

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Speaker 1: sec reversab really ate secropers that I spoke with really

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Speaker 1: st sex workers and needs to end and as a

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Speaker 1: temporary occupation. But unless you're pursuing and education, and then

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Speaker 1: once you have some set of hard to handle money,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't, you might not create this be necessary

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Speaker 1: um letters to transition to something else. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: there of course there's always the fact that you can't

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Speaker 1: talk out the work or to close your path. And

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously for me that was something I was

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Speaker 1: unwilling or maybe just unable to do. UM. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: live in fear thinking that maybe someone will discover this

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Speaker 1: or just this idea that you know, there's a part

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Speaker 1: of me that I could never share UM. I know,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe some people, which it's naive for me

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Speaker 1: or just stupid, whoever thought I could become a teacher UM.

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Speaker 1: But you know I remember really grateful. I haven't nice

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Speaker 1: to say because I couldn't be a teacher with a

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Speaker 1: great teacher. Fortunately, other people couldn't reconcile the fact that

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Speaker 1: I'd have this past and that I could then have

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Speaker 1: the common teacher or anythink our society just was not

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Speaker 1: ready for that. So, speaking as Petro's personal experience with

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Speaker 1: sex work UM, which he no longer doing, she's focused

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Speaker 1: on activism, on writing UM, as she explained earlier in

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Speaker 1: the podcast UM. But she leaves behind UM this this

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Speaker 1: scandal that is immortalized basically in Google searches, and we

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Speaker 1: really wanted to find out too whether or not her

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Speaker 1: coming forward and becoming more of a public face of

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Speaker 1: sex work activism. Um, whether it was worth the negative

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Speaker 1: side of the scandal because Caroline doesn't hurt. Didn't she

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Speaker 1: tell Marie Claire that she was essentially being stalked at

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Speaker 1: one point by New York Post reporters. Yeah, they came

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Speaker 1: to her school and the principle had to call the police,

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Speaker 1: thinking that there was some crazy ex boyfriend following her around.

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Speaker 1: And to me, hearing how she has dealt with everything

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Speaker 1: since then, um, really speaks to her strength of character.

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Speaker 1: Maybe two years later I can say, yeah, but two

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Speaker 1: years ago or a year ago, or I might not

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Speaker 1: have be and so cavalier, I mean, I say, yes,

401
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Speaker 1: I still regrets. And I wrote a piece for So

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Speaker 1: Jane about recently written an article for ten House and

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Speaker 1: just how I know Walker feeling sible about the the

404
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: identity that's imposed upon me, the stigmatized identity, not just

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Speaker 1: as former sex worker, but now I'm just like quote

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Speaker 1: unquote worker teacher. So you know, at first, obviously that's

407
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Speaker 1: not it's a moniker. I had embraced m today I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't stay I embrace it, but um, I understand it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't. Um, you know, I'm gonna I'll do

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Speaker 1: what I can with it to to look comfortably within

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Speaker 1: that identity. I mean because personally it was it was

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Speaker 1: for me like I had to give up my apartment.

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Speaker 1: I had to Uh, I was unemployable. I still end

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent. I'll never work in childhood education again. Uh,

415
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Speaker 1: but you know I will work in other places where

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Speaker 1: all of my build houps to be a news and UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's what was meant for me, and

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Speaker 1: so I guess I'm saying I have learned to embrace it. Um.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't difficult transmission. And I think I thought I

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Speaker 1: had much more PROOFLEC and I did. I really expected

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Speaker 1: institutions to step up this for me, um, because as

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Speaker 1: an individual, I was just no watch for what it

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Speaker 1: was being targeted at me. And I really didn't feel

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Speaker 1: that effect. You know that I did. I had no money,

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Speaker 1: I had no way of making money. A lot I'm

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Speaker 1: a lot of Ironically, I wanted to return to sell efects,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't uh so uh standing up for what

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Speaker 1: I believe in. It's you know, one point, and I

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Speaker 1: think I mentioned in the Extra Change Chief. My therapist

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Speaker 1: and my boyfriend sat together, um and we were doing

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00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: a couple of therapy at that time. We both looked

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00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: at games and were strongly suggesting that I just changed

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00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: my name and moved to another state where I could

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00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: just start over. And for obvious reasons, I think, if

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00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: you know my story, I just couldn't do that. I

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00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: couldn't hide this part of who I was. So UM, today,

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00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful that I didn't do it. Really glad

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00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: I didn't do to chage his name and somewhere else

439
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: can pretend it didn't happen. You know, I really want

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00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: to turn turn all of my life experiences into gifts

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00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: that I can keep giving or that I can use

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00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: to be useful to others, and including you know, the

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00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: whole quote unquote hook or teacher. And then we wanted

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00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: to know if Melissa Petro had any parting words for

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00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: our listeners, anything that she really wanted to drive home

446
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: about her experiences. UM, I think we're I'm at today. UM.

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00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: You know which political points I promote most strongly, just

448
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: as I seed that, UM, people who have have historically

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00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: been rendered visible, and I'm talking about sex hers and

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00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: also any other population people who who just don't don't

451
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: need to see for themselves. Really ought to be UM,

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00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: anyone who who as invade invisible has the right to

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00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: be seen and earned. And really the only way that

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00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: any true social change really can only come about by

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00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: listening without any sort of judgment or pomp pens and

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00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: kind of ascension to these communities and people will purported

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00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: they seek to help, those people need to be involved

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00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: in those conversations. And so when it does come to

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00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: sex work, I think we're finding in a place, UM,

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00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: the sex work UH community, sex work activists community is

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00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: in a place where we're finally willing to listen to

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00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: all experiences, good back, civilis and just just letting everybody

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00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: come to the table and have a place in that conversation.

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00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: And I kind of think that's how will truly solve

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00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: the problems and and empower empower people to be actors

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00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: in their own life. So thank you so much to

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00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: Melissa Petro for talking to us, and if listeners out

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00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: there would like to learn more about sex work activism UM.

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00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: She recommends going to the Red Umbrella Projects website, which

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00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: you can find through Google and UM. I also highly

471
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: recommend going over to Bitch magazine and checking out the

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00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: h Word, which was the eight week blog series that

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00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: Melissa did, which includes not only her own writing and

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00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: her own experience, but also a number of interviews with

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00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: an essays by other women um involved in sex work.

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00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: So it's some pretty some pretty fascinating conversations over there.

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00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: But thank you so much to Melissa for giving us

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00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of her time and talking about something

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00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: that we rarely talk about. And when I say we

480
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: am talking about you and me, Caroline, but I'm talking

481
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: about all of us too, And maybe it's maybe it's

482
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: time for us to pay more attention to those millions

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00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: of people out there who are working in the sex

484
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: industry but are having to also live in the shadows

485
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: as well. Well. Since we've had this very special interview

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00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: talking to Melissa Petro today, we are going to skip

487
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: the listener mail segment of the podcast, but if you

488
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: do have anything that you want to share with us,

489
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: any ideas or thoughts about what we've just talked about,

490
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: shoot us an email at Mom's Stuff at Discovery dot com.

491
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Facebook and like us,

492
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: I'd really appreciate it, and you can check us out

493
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and please check out

494
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: our blog during the week for more great information at

495
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out

496
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how

497
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising and

498
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The how Stuff Works iPhone app

499
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Speaker 1: has arrived. Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you

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00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are

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00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: you