Speaker 1: We're back. We're back. The one is really nice. Randomly,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: The weather's nice? It was disgusting today.
Speaker 3: No, it's actually like it's warmish.
Speaker 2: It's warm, but it's like a blanket of death has
Speaker 2: fallen upon New Jersey and New York. It's so gray.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like, what nice for Jersey winter.
Speaker 2: Let's be real, Okay, I mean it's not like there's
Speaker 2: not two feet of snow, so I guess you got it. Yes,
Speaker 2: But I was like it was good, like stay in
Speaker 2: bed until two pm?
Speaker 3: Whoopsie, Yeah, yeah it was. I could barely get out
Speaker 3: of bed today.
Speaker 2: I was like, why I heard the vacum cleaner and
Speaker 2: I was like, I guess I'll get up clean now.
Speaker 1: How do you know?
Speaker 3: Oh so guys it's brown and bush and yeah yah,
Speaker 3: yeah you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're here, be in here. Thank you for coming
Speaker 2: back for another week.
Speaker 1: Yes, before we do we how.
Speaker 2: Many sixty six are sixty six or so? Txty seventh show?
Speaker 2: I always have to check every week.
Speaker 1: We're in our golden years.
Speaker 2: We are we can get social Security financial nerd joke.
Speaker 2: I know they're like, what but before we get into
Speaker 2: the show and it's a very exciting shoul We have
Speaker 2: a cool guest today, cool updates from Tiffany on the
Speaker 2: Dreamcatchers and the Literature Challenge today. But before all of
Speaker 2: that goodness, we want to ask again. At the end
Speaker 2: of the show last week we mentioned this, but we
Speaker 2: really would like your support leaving us reviews on iTunes.
Speaker 2: We know that you guys love the show. We've had
Speaker 2: a record months so far with down loads and subscribers.
Speaker 2: So thank you, thank you, thank you, yes, thank you
Speaker 2: for supporting our little show. But do you really want
Speaker 2: to show your support more than subscribing? You could go
Speaker 2: to iTunes and leave just a short review with you know,
Speaker 2: five stars, however you feel about it that day, five stars,
Speaker 2: five stars know So Mandy Hat Someone email message us
Speaker 2: on Facebook and said, how do you do that? It's
Speaker 2: kind of okay, how do you do that? So if
Speaker 2: you're listening on your phone, just go to your my
Speaker 2: podcast app if you have an iPhone maybe you have
Speaker 2: there's a different way on the Android. But if you
Speaker 2: go to where we listen to our podcast, you should
Speaker 2: be able to click our name and go to our
Speaker 2: show page and you can write a review there. I
Speaker 2: think it's actually easier just to go to Google. Go
Speaker 2: to Google, or open up your iTunes and look for
Speaker 2: Brown Ambition Podcasts in the iTunes store, and easily, right
Speaker 2: there you'll see a tab I think it's in the
Speaker 2: top left corner that says write a review. And it's
Speaker 2: literally like a two second process. I don't think you'd
Speaker 2: have to sign in. I think you just have to
Speaker 2: you know, lead. I don't think you can probably do
Speaker 2: it anonymously.
Speaker 1: If somebody knows, tweet us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, troubleshoot it support.
Speaker 3: Yes, if somebody out there knows, someone's like no, that's
Speaker 3: not how you do it.
Speaker 2: But after last week's show, we had about twenty or
Speaker 2: thirty new reviews, So thank you. Let's just get even
Speaker 2: more because, like I said, it's for some reason, iTunes
Speaker 2: just loves the podcast that have more reviews, and it's
Speaker 2: actually pretty heavily weighted besides just the number of people
Speaker 2: who are downloading. So I've learned that I would like
Speaker 2: to really push us up in the rate, and I
Speaker 2: think that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1: So get reviewing, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2: Unless it's a one star and then you can stay home.
Speaker 1: Nobody cares about those. So how is your week.
Speaker 2: My week was a week. It was a busy, busy week.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I talked about doing Hello Fresh and I was super excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I need you to resend me that link.
Speaker 2: Did you not use my free box?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: She left money on the table.
Speaker 3: It was like a week and I started to I
Speaker 3: started to apply, but I was waiting for my new
Speaker 3: card in the mail.
Speaker 2: Oh go, mind, wait a second, are you like my father?
Speaker 2: She literally just pulled her card out of her cardholder
Speaker 2: and there was a a Vental floss pick behind it.
Speaker 2: My father keeps one in his wallet.
Speaker 1: You never know.
Speaker 3: So I was waiting for my new my new card
Speaker 3: in the mail, so I didn't have it at the
Speaker 3: moment when you so, if you can reacend it, because
Speaker 3: I do want to try.
Speaker 2: Hell, I'll see if I got another one. But this
Speaker 2: week I did. I didn't plan it very well because
Speaker 2: we had a lot of afterwork engagements. Okay, I opened
Speaker 2: the fridge today and we have three meals left from
Speaker 2: our form four meals. Yeah, so I'm like, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna cook one for lunch and then you do one
Speaker 2: for dinner. We'll do one for lunch tomorrow because okay,
Speaker 2: I want to go bad and you know.
Speaker 1: You know for sure that would be crazy.
Speaker 2: But what happened this week? Oh my goodness, Oh you
Speaker 2: know I have an update on the well shoot other
Speaker 2: than the world ending and yes, the you know it
Speaker 2: has happened. Voldemort has the elder wand and he's taken
Speaker 2: over the country.
Speaker 3: But okay, because our fearless heroes are still trying their best.
Speaker 2: Are Yeah, the women of the world were out there.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: Oh it was so like well suising to my soul
Speaker 2: yesterday to see all the women.
Speaker 3: Around the world. That's what really like touched me. It
Speaker 3: was like, wow. It wasn't just I heard all seven
Speaker 3: continents participated.
Speaker 2: Or Antarctica, yes, Penguin's.
Speaker 3: March, but I heard somebody was like, yo, do you
Speaker 3: know you got to be a bad, a terrible person.
Speaker 1: Indeed to get people in Arctica to.
Speaker 2: Out, they're like negative five thousand degrees. What I need
Speaker 2: to see pictures.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think I'm going to google it. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: be google it. But yeah, I heard all seven consonants.
Speaker 2: I was really depressed because I got really sick yesterday
Speaker 2: and I had The march started around eleven thirty in
Speaker 2: New York and I was really a sick, the kind
Speaker 2: of sick where you don't want to be too far
Speaker 2: from facilities, if you know what I mean. So I
Speaker 2: didn't go, and then we had plans later that day.
Speaker 2: But I was on Instagram all day scrolling through and
Speaker 2: liking every single picture and they were just some amazing
Speaker 2: the signage, and I love seeing the moms out there
Speaker 2: with their little kids and really beautiful Women's March protests
Speaker 2: Reach Antarctica photos. That's a good number of people Antarctica.
Speaker 2: That's like twenty five.
Speaker 3: That's thirty people ant Look, that's crazy. It's actually a
Speaker 3: really good number of people.
Speaker 2: Oh, they were on an expedition trip seven and I
Speaker 2: couldn't get out of my apartment all seven consonants. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm ashamed, but I did read that there were more
Speaker 2: people at the Women's in DCA than what's his face
Speaker 2: is inauguration, which he actually.
Speaker 3: Had a press conference about which I thought, Wow, your
Speaker 3: ego so salty.
Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, you know, none of the press conference.
Speaker 2: He went to the CIA to talk about national security,
Speaker 2: and that's where he decided to call out the media
Speaker 2: for sharing that photo. If you haven't seen it yet,
Speaker 2: it'll it'll soothe your soul like a sue mine. It's
Speaker 2: the two thousand and nine inaugural crowd compared to twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: which is amazing. There's like half the number of people.
Speaker 2: I think, I think one less than that. One third
Speaker 2: the number came out for Trump as they did for
Speaker 2: Obama and nine, which that was amazing.
Speaker 1: It was I had the giggles.
Speaker 2: You needed that too, because it was such a dark day.
Speaker 2: It was Friday. Oh, it felt like Friday the thirteenth
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 3: And what it goes to show you is that, like,
Speaker 3: because you know, when when when he won, we were
Speaker 3: all confused, like do more people really?
Speaker 1: Do they really feel like this?
Speaker 3: Is that, you know? And just the fact that way
Speaker 3: more people came out for the marching than than for
Speaker 3: the the march for him, I guess you could call
Speaker 3: it it just I'm not certain what happened as far
Speaker 3: as the election is concerned and why it's swayed in
Speaker 3: that direction. But I think that that he has woken
Speaker 3: a sleeping giant. And I think that people are like, oh,
Speaker 3: because I think so many people. To me, they weren't
Speaker 3: pro Hillary and they weren't necessary, but they definitely were
Speaker 3: not pro Hams, so they were just kind of chilling.
Speaker 1: And now they're like, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2: Because it's real now he was elected.
Speaker 1: Yeh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3: I can no longer just kind of chill on the sideline.
Speaker 3: I have to do something, And I think I thank
Speaker 3: him honestly for that, because I think that there is
Speaker 3: no more powerful movement than people who are joined together
Speaker 3: under a common cause. The downfall of you, my cheated
Speaker 3: delicious friends, is cheating cheato.
Speaker 2: The news chet was the other one.
Speaker 3: Lovey has like if you don't know lovey awtimately love
Speaker 3: you dot com. Right. She has this great uh, this
Speaker 3: great blog post of why will still continue to disrespect
Speaker 3: how she plans.
Speaker 2: She came off like a how long hiatus, like a
Speaker 2: month long as in her first business of order was
Speaker 2: to take down Trump and continue to pledge to take
Speaker 2: him down. Yes, I feel like that's what's happening. Though,
Speaker 2: I feel like artists especially, but anyone out there, it's
Speaker 2: never been like this is a call to actually like,
Speaker 2: it's never been a more important time to get involved,
Speaker 2: to speak up, to get your life right, yep, to
Speaker 2: prepare yourself and protect yourself from whatever is coming. I
Speaker 2: mean one of the first things he sat down in
Speaker 2: his you know chair to do in the old Oval office,
Speaker 2: which makes my stomach hurt thinking about it, was to
Speaker 2: start walking back Obamacare, start setting the stage for that.
Speaker 2: And he even cut the homeowners first time homeowners yeah,
Speaker 2: insurance tax cut. Yeah, that's random. Yeah, like just why
Speaker 2: you know, and I know, and I mean not even
Speaker 2: about Trump. I mean, you know, I got into a
Speaker 2: little texting war with some family members or just one
Speaker 2: in particular, who I won't name, who I suspect was
Speaker 2: a Trump supporter and I you know, and I was
Speaker 2: and they were like, you know, he's president, just get
Speaker 2: over it. And I'm like, it's not about him. It's
Speaker 2: like everyone he is bringing into power around him.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 3: And that's what I read that. That's the part that's
Speaker 3: what irritated me. I'm like, people are so self centered
Speaker 3: and then they're thinking, oh, this is just you guys whining.
Speaker 3: It's honestly, it's not. That's not what this is. It's
Speaker 3: about the policies that are now going to be going forward.
Speaker 3: Did you see it was like so epic this Facebook
Speaker 3: post that became viral. Now, this young guy that was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I'm so glad you know that he's
Speaker 3: gonna do president, because now we can get rid of
Speaker 3: this Obamacare and it's he started to like like talk
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: He was saying.
Speaker 3: Somebody was like, don't you use what is Obamacare? The
Speaker 3: real official name is ACA Affordable Care right, And he
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, so maybe this affordable care I think
Speaker 3: can really get a chance. And they were like, they
Speaker 3: were like somebody was like yeah, somebody was like, don't
Speaker 3: you use affordable care. Yeah, that's what I use, but
Speaker 3: I don't use Obamacare. They're like, that's the same thing.
Speaker 3: He's like, no, it's not. He was like, they were like, yo,
Speaker 3: it is so epic, and you could see.
Speaker 4: He told me.
Speaker 2: The White House was so against Obamacare becoming a thing
Speaker 2: that everyone said, because then you could point it to
Speaker 2: the enemy and attach it and forget what it actually does.
Speaker 3: So he actually voted against the only health insurance that
Speaker 3: he was able to get because it was called Obamacare.
Speaker 3: And they were like, wow, you literally voted against your
Speaker 3: own health and he was silent. I'm like, why is
Speaker 3: this Somebody actually wrote why is this post still?
Speaker 4: Love?
Speaker 1: I would delete this as soon as possible.
Speaker 3: But I just thought to myself, Wow, I wonder how
Speaker 3: many people voted against themselves out of fear and ignorance
Speaker 3: because they did not realize like if you have a child,
Speaker 3: that's that's you know, above twenty six, you know, or
Speaker 3: below but twenty or like what above eighteen?
Speaker 1: Now what does it?
Speaker 2: It had to be younger than twenty six, like.
Speaker 3: Right, that was before, right you used to at least
Speaker 3: be able to be like, oho, I didn't get a
Speaker 3: you know, I don't have a job just yet, but
Speaker 3: I could still be under my parents, you.
Speaker 1: Know, insurance.
Speaker 3: And now that's not that you know, that's in danger
Speaker 3: of not being so or pre existing diseases like that's just.
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't It was just a few years
Speaker 2: ago that you could have had cancer, which is out
Speaker 2: of your control, and if you needed insurance you wouldn't
Speaker 2: get it, like or diabetes even could have just qualified
Speaker 2: you from health care.
Speaker 3: But like, my nephew has full blown sickle style and yeah,
Speaker 3: we just found out. And I was just like, well,
Speaker 3: not just found that, but you know, and I was
Speaker 3: just thinking about that, like, so what does that? What
Speaker 3: does that mean? You know, this is a pre existing condition,
Speaker 3: you know, and it just made me really work, you know,
Speaker 3: because that hit really close to home, like there's going
Speaker 3: to be a cap of how much insurance.
Speaker 1: He might reach that cap by the time he's five.
Speaker 1: Then what happens?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, my father as soon as Obamacare or sorry, the
Speaker 2: Affordable Care dot came into being, the Healthcare dot Gov
Speaker 2: was launched that very first year, I signed my dad
Speaker 2: up and he's been My family, A lot of them
Speaker 2: are morbidly obese, and he's a diet He was a
Speaker 2: diabetic and he was morbidly obese, and one of the
Speaker 2: first things he did was he went and got his
Speaker 2: all of his checkups. And he hasn't had insurance since
Speaker 2: I was ten or eleven because he quit his job
Speaker 2: and went up to be an entreprene were in launch
Speaker 2: of restaurant business, and he never had insurance. He survived
Speaker 2: because he had friends see the medical profession who would
Speaker 2: give him, like, you know, a discount on dental services
Speaker 2: and things like that. But he became really unhealthy and
Speaker 2: he went in all his checkups and his doctor was like,
Speaker 2: it's time you need to get gasher bypass surgery. And
Speaker 2: he got the surgery, which probably saved his life. He's
Speaker 2: no longer diabetic and Obamacare covered it.
Speaker 1: Like all of it.
Speaker 2: Wow, and he's like a whole different person now, so healthy.
Speaker 2: And it makes me and it just sort of shatters
Speaker 2: me to think that people you know, like my father
Speaker 2: won't have access because they chose not to work for
Speaker 2: a company, which is a lot of people, you know.
Speaker 3: I'm like, and even then I've just been reading I
Speaker 3: have not I'm not gonna lie, I don't have all
Speaker 3: the details, but like, there are even people who even
Speaker 3: if you work for a company, there are.
Speaker 1: Things that don't get covered. Yeah, which is just like sol.
Speaker 2: I just got my dental bill, so believe me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just it's a scary time. And I've been being
Speaker 3: very careful about how much I've allowed myself to ingest
Speaker 3: because it gets really scary, really scary, not.
Speaker 1: Not just frustrating him mad.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what a lot of Trump supporters saying, Oh,
Speaker 3: you guys are a bunch of winers. No, it's people. Yes,
Speaker 3: we're people mad and upset. But now there's real fear
Speaker 3: that is setting.
Speaker 2: To be fearful. Yeah, I think it's more important than
Speaker 2: ever to pay attention though, because someone needs to be watching,
Speaker 2: you know, the media needs and it's such a scary
Speaker 2: it's like a it's a weird tightrope because you want
Speaker 2: to be on him and watching him and be like
Speaker 2: an aggressive reporter. But then you see what he does
Speaker 2: when he doesn't like what you report about him. He
Speaker 2: shuts you out, he shuts you down. It's going to
Speaker 2: be really fair. I'm going to be watching like a hawk.
Speaker 2: I mean one of the I mean again, I say
Speaker 2: that one of the first acts he did as president
Speaker 2: was go to the CIA to protect our nation from
Speaker 2: outside terrorist attacks and decided to, you know, talk beef
Speaker 2: with the media for posting a tweet you know of
Speaker 2: a black sture, which is just like you know, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 2: But the I go they go low, we go high.
Speaker 2: He's just always low love. He doesn't know how to
Speaker 2: go and he hire and mo Michelle everyone you saw
Speaker 2: the inaugural, like the one takeaway wasn't that Michelle gift
Speaker 2: or the Michelle meme? Like someone caught her in a
Speaker 2: dirty look and it was I did I did feel
Speaker 2: like the weather was like responding to did you see
Speaker 2: the w yo? That was what comes so adorable.
Speaker 3: First of all, I was like, because somebody, please help
Speaker 3: this man with a show. I don't know how to
Speaker 3: get this or don't like use a poncho. It was
Speaker 3: like the Pancho the hood was like to his faith.
Speaker 3: He was like, I don't know how it got into this.
Speaker 1: I just was like, w W. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: be like, I just what was Laura?
Speaker 2: You just take this the type of thing she had
Speaker 2: the bathroom br you take.
Speaker 1: Of your kid, you like to stop it, just stop it.
Speaker 2: When did he become so cute? And like I kind
Speaker 2: of look at him, I'm like, I don't get you
Speaker 2: have started him for yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, you almost wished for him back. Paint me a picture.
Speaker 3: G W.
Speaker 1: Did you see he's actually a pretty good painting.
Speaker 2: Yeah he is. He is a good painter, somebody wrote.
Speaker 3: And I thought this was interesting that there was a
Speaker 3: picture of him painting and the painting is actually pretty good.
Speaker 3: Someone said, this is this is a clear cut example
Speaker 3: of when kids are pushed into things that you know
Speaker 3: that are really what their parents went not with they want.
Speaker 3: He might have made an amazing artist versus you know,
Speaker 3: the destroyer of the free world.
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, i'd prefer him in an art school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you never know, maybe that's what he really enjoyed.
Speaker 3: And it was like, no, this is what you're doing.
Speaker 2: You're going to be the president. Yes, well they were there,
Speaker 2: you know, Hillary, but I watched the beginning when they
Speaker 2: were you know, before they come out for the actual speech.
Speaker 2: They are all inside the Capitol and they're like being presented,
Speaker 2: kind of like at a debutante ball. And I saw
Speaker 2: Bill and Hillary preparing and you could see her, you know,
Speaker 2: that lovely white suit, do you like a like steal herself?
Speaker 2: And I was like, girl, I can't even imagine. Can
Speaker 2: you imagine having to go out in that stage? What's like?
Speaker 2: And then and then as soon as she got out,
Speaker 2: the smile came on and the campaign lights hit her
Speaker 2: and you can see her just like switch come on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I really like that moment of humanity, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is this is real life and
Speaker 3: this is crazy. But I hate put on my brave face.
Speaker 2: And I could tell Michelle was like not into it.
Speaker 3: And yes, I thought, wow, my friend, my best friend
Speaker 3: lind to call me. She's like, girl, Michelle thought, I'm
Speaker 3: over a ponytailing every black girl knows that Poe.
Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, don't worry about it. You
Speaker 1: didn't got to do. No, just just put it back
Speaker 1: to be president.
Speaker 2: That's exactly to put this big conon this.
Speaker 3: I don't care, like you know what, I'm not even
Speaker 3: trying to come out here stunt like I used to.
Speaker 2: And Malania tried so hard to be her friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, I feel honestly, the truth is
Speaker 3: I feel kind of bad for her because.
Speaker 2: I can't tell why I feel bad for her though
Speaker 2: she's as strong, you know, she's she got herself in
Speaker 2: this position. Yeah, somebody wanted when you saw her dancing
Speaker 2: with him, that looked really uncomfortable. She was held hostage.
Speaker 3: Yes, somebody posted a beame said again if you need
Speaker 3: help twice.
Speaker 1: And I was rollic. I was like, that's how I feel.
Speaker 1: I feel like I want to be like, are you okay?
Speaker 2: Are you okay? I hated how smug is kids all
Speaker 2: looked like, oh daddy in the White House.
Speaker 1: I got this now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but stay woke. If you want a place you know,
Speaker 2: in this WEE podcast, I'm gonna post some links to
Speaker 2: some great organizations if you want to vote with your dollars,
Speaker 2: which is what I've been doing. I've been pumping money
Speaker 2: into things like planned parenthood, environmental organizations because if you
Speaker 2: don't know, our president doesn't believe in climate change. So
Speaker 2: I'll post some links if you want to. There's actually
Speaker 2: a great Gothamas story with with good organizations to donate tokay,
Speaker 2: and then go find your local I'll try and post
Speaker 2: a link to where you can find your local senator
Speaker 2: or congressman, because they're the ones who are going to
Speaker 2: be the gatekeepers here, you know, voting for you know,
Speaker 2: the policies he's put he's going to put forward as
Speaker 2: people will put forward. So if you feel like you
Speaker 2: can't do anything, you can. If you didn't get to
Speaker 2: march yesterday, that's okay, you can. You can show your
Speaker 2: support in other ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: Nothing nothing works better than a dollar like actually, you know,
Speaker 3: putting your money where your values are.
Speaker 4: Ye?
Speaker 3: Oh lord, are you ready to break or boost? I
Speaker 3: don't even feel like a boost these days.
Speaker 2: What there's gonna be something?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Well, I do want to take a a brown break
Speaker 3: from the folks on because I mean, my my social
Speaker 3: media was largely positive about the Women's March. But there
Speaker 3: were a few people that actually really respected that were
Speaker 3: speaking disparagingly about it, and I was like, something, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was actually surprised because they're, like I said, there
Speaker 3: were people who, you know, I'm used to, you know,
Speaker 3: you have some friends, You're like, Lord, here they go.
Speaker 1: But there were people who I was like, really, not you.
Speaker 2: What were they saying?
Speaker 3: What was what was so marching is not going to
Speaker 3: do anything, and it's better to put your you know,
Speaker 3: put action towards you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And you know, and so this is what I said.
Speaker 3: This is gonna sound a little rudimentary or whatever, and sophomore,
Speaker 3: but I don't care.
Speaker 1: So you know how we love Harry Potter.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, And we know how the defeat of He
Speaker 3: who shall not be named, and that although Harry had
Speaker 3: the clearly pivotal role in making that happen, they were
Speaker 3: all of these supporting roles.
Speaker 2: That were the Order of the Phoenix.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just equal it's important from like, you know,
Speaker 3: from who's that little weird girl looming?
Speaker 1: Everyone ever all killed the snakes.
Speaker 2: If not for the snake, he wouldn't have gotten the
Speaker 2: seventh part of Voldemort's soul.
Speaker 3: And so I have all that to say is that, like,
Speaker 3: everybody's role is important. That yes, you mister intellectual or
Speaker 3: missus intellectual, whatever you might be, you know, building a
Speaker 3: nonprofit organization that teaches girls, that's great, But people marching
Speaker 3: is also part of the larger picture of change. And
Speaker 3: that's the part that I'm like it makes that made
Speaker 3: me a little like upset with them, is that that
Speaker 3: change doesn't just happen in one singular, focused way. That
Speaker 3: all of these things matter, and that you might think
Speaker 3: that like, oh, marching doesn't do anything but one you
Speaker 3: don't know that how can you know that that there
Speaker 3: could be a young girl in the march who goes
Speaker 3: on to create a policy that goes on to you
Speaker 3: don't know, there's so many things and almost three million
Speaker 3: people march, how can you say that nothing, that that
Speaker 3: has done nothing, if not, but to motivate people to
Speaker 3: go home and do more.
Speaker 1: So I say this.
Speaker 3: Is that whatever way that you've chosen to change the
Speaker 3: world around you, do that and then allow others to
Speaker 3: choose for themselves how they're.
Speaker 1: Going to express that change, you know.
Speaker 3: And so that was like my kind of brown break
Speaker 3: of like people tearing down you know, other people who
Speaker 3: were just trying to do something, you know.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's a positive thing. There's always going to
Speaker 2: be people are going to try to politicize it. There
Speaker 2: were people women of color who was saying they didn't
Speaker 2: feel like the organizers were inclusive enough.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't that a moment of color that started it.
Speaker 2: But I don't actually know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if her name was Tasha something other, I feel
Speaker 3: like I kind of got away from her.
Speaker 2: But I really know it was with those pictures that
Speaker 2: I saw, the celebrities that were out there. It was
Speaker 2: a rainbow of beauty. And you know what, maybe it
Speaker 2: did get politicized, maybe they were, you know, making money
Speaker 2: off her or whatever, But like, you're never going to
Speaker 2: see a moment like that, Yeah, I haven't in my life.
Speaker 2: It was a crowd of hundreds of millions, or not
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions, but millions of women out there, not
Speaker 2: just women, but men too, with their children, and it
Speaker 2: was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: And I her name was Tamika Mawory. She it was
Speaker 3: the brainchild of a woman named Tamika Maori. She is
Speaker 3: the executive director of the National at Action Network.
Speaker 2: Young Girl Oh wow, Yeah, Tamika Mallory. Mm hmm, well
Speaker 2: then everyone should be singing her praise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it kind of I get it. It kind of
Speaker 1: grew beyond her.
Speaker 2: Because you needed permits, it needed to be organized, It
Speaker 2: became a whole. There had to be stages Madonna performed.
Speaker 2: But I think.
Speaker 3: Exactly, I think that it was just her initial call
Speaker 3: to action. It led to people. But do you see
Speaker 3: what I mean? Somebody might say, oh, Tamika, you're just talking,
Speaker 3: but look at her initial call to action and how
Speaker 3: it rippled to this, and so to me, there is
Speaker 3: no small thing to do.
Speaker 2: I think people just get automatically cynical when something big happens,
Speaker 2: like when it becomes bigger than like the grassroots. You know, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's you know it should that's the way it should work.
Speaker 2: You should have a small group making a larger voice,
Speaker 2: and then they make a larger voice and just expands
Speaker 2: and expands until everyone you can't not pay attention. No
Speaker 2: one did not see that mark yesterday. Mister Voldemort himself
Speaker 2: probably saw that and was humping around the White House.
Speaker 2: Sam mad in the world and think in the media
Speaker 2: was to blame. But like that message just proved I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the kind of message that no one can ignore.
Speaker 2: It's a powerful thing, and all the women out there,
Speaker 2: it was just you know thing, thank you for doing.
Speaker 3: That, so boost of women and our awesomeness and a
Speaker 3: break to those sometimes who can't say anything nice. So
Speaker 3: maybe they shouldn't say anything at all. So I got
Speaker 3: this random song in my head, He's on down, E's
Speaker 3: on down, Come on.
Speaker 1: You know what it is?
Speaker 3: I think it's because you're wearing this beautiful gold scarf
Speaker 3: and it's making me think of Is.
Speaker 2: It because they were live during the inaugural. Who was
Speaker 2: it that started? I think it was Jamila Lamo from Uh.
Speaker 2: She started she encouraged everyone to live tweet the whiz.
Speaker 1: I love the pet No.
Speaker 3: First of all, nobody was more petty than BuzzFeed with
Speaker 3: the countdowns to next to lin. I'm here for all
Speaker 3: this petty. So anyway, I know we have we hardly
Speaker 3: ever have guests hod Hot.
Speaker 2: Well when we do, they're awesome.
Speaker 3: Yes they are, And we have an awesome guest today.
Speaker 2: I get to chat with a really incredible author. I
Speaker 2: was really uh excited that she said. Yes, it's always
Speaker 2: surprising when they want to come on the show. But
Speaker 2: I read this book called The Unbanking of America. The
Speaker 2: name it's great, right, how the new middle class in
Speaker 2: America survives. And it's by a writer professor at U Penn,
Speaker 2: professor of city planning named Lisa Servaan. I hope, I
Speaker 2: said her last name, right, We practice this and the
Speaker 2: entire book is really it's it's fascinating. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: we we know what's out there. I mean the banks
Speaker 2: are so expensive now that people are turning even more
Speaker 2: to these like alternative banks, like check cashing businesses are exploded.
Speaker 2: Payday lenders have never been bigger, pawnshops even title loans,
Speaker 2: all these types of products that are super expensive, but
Speaker 2: people turn to them anyway.
Speaker 1: And so like why and what can you do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of people are like condescending about it,
Speaker 2: like yeah, if only they knew, like it's really expensive.
Speaker 2: They're so dumb, why don't they just go to a bank.
Speaker 2: What I loved about Lisa's book, again it's called The
Speaker 2: Unbanking of America, is that she really wanted to know
Speaker 2: why are people we'll go into these services. The math
Speaker 2: isn't adding up. Millions of people are doing this and
Speaker 2: yet I know that not everyone is an idiot. They're
Speaker 2: not doing because they don't know any better. There has
Speaker 2: to be a reason. So she didn't just do the
Speaker 2: research although she is a researcher and professor. She actually
Speaker 2: got jobs at a payday lender in Oakland, California, and
Speaker 2: at a check cashing business in the Bronx, the South
Speaker 2: Bronx in New York and spent months working down in
Speaker 2: the trenches with these people and talking to people one
Speaker 2: on one to find out why they were using these
Speaker 2: services and what's happened to the banking industry in America
Speaker 2: and why there are no better alternatives for people out there.
Speaker 2: So here's my chat with miss Lisa Servan on Brown Ambition.
Speaker 2: You can check out her book at Lisaservan dot com.
Speaker 2: She also has a Tumblr page called money Stories dot
Speaker 2: tumblr dot com where she collects stories from people out
Speaker 2: there who are sharing their experiences in the banking industry.
Speaker 2: So you have a story, go to Moneystories dot tumblr
Speaker 2: dot com or lisaservon dot com and send her a note.
Speaker 2: Without further ado, here's my interview with Lisa. Lisa, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on Brown Ambition.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me it's great to be here.
Speaker 2: So I'm really really excited about your book because I
Speaker 2: feel like in the book, again is called the on
Speaker 2: Banking of America, How the middle Class, How the New
Speaker 2: middle Class Survives, And one of the most compelling parts
Speaker 2: of the book aside from the fact that you actually
Speaker 2: wanted to see how people out in the world, real
Speaker 2: people are using these alternative banking services like payday lenders
Speaker 2: and check cashing companies. But you didn't just want to
Speaker 2: do the research like a lot of people do. I mean,
Speaker 2: you went out there and actually worked in the businesses
Speaker 2: and were right face to face with these customers. And
Speaker 2: beyond that, what I loved about the book is that
Speaker 2: I feel like you had some respect for people, and
Speaker 2: you know, the people who were using these services, and
Speaker 2: you genuinely wanted to know, you know, what is it
Speaker 2: that's driving you to use these services even though they're
Speaker 2: like super expensive. So I guess my first question is
Speaker 2: what surprised you when you got face to face with
Speaker 2: people and asked them, you know, you know what is
Speaker 2: driving you to use these these pricey services like petie
Speaker 2: lenders and check cashing.
Speaker 5: Right, that's a great question, you know, I wasn't surprised.
Speaker 5: I knew there had to be a better answer than
Speaker 5: simply these people are ignorant or if they only knew
Speaker 5: what I know, you know, kind of middle class white lady,
Speaker 5: they would do what I do. And which is why
Speaker 5: I went to the field, because I felt like I
Speaker 5: couldn't get that the answer to that question by just
Speaker 5: you know, reading reports or looking at statistics. So I
Speaker 5: wasn't surprised that people had a good answer, but I
Speaker 5: was surprised what their reasons were.
Speaker 4: And the reasons were, I would say the first.
Speaker 5: One surprised me in particular that so many people told
Speaker 5: me that the check cashers they used, in particular were
Speaker 5: cheaper than banks, because I think when you read about
Speaker 5: this stuff and.
Speaker 4: This issue and people who.
Speaker 5: Call the predatory and that they're part of the poverty industry,
Speaker 5: et cetera, the first thing they say is they're expensive.
Speaker 5: Why would so many people be using them? And I
Speaker 5: can say more about that. But the other two reasons,
Speaker 5: which were also surprising were that these businesses were much
Speaker 5: more transparent than banks. It was much easier for people
Speaker 5: to figure out how much they were going.
Speaker 4: To be charged and when they were going to be.
Speaker 5: Charged, and they often felt like they were being tricked
Speaker 5: at banks. And the third thing was that they felt
Speaker 5: like they got much better service at the Czech hashers
Speaker 5: and at the pay day landers than they did from
Speaker 5: their banks. And so I was really surprised that those
Speaker 5: were the reasons. You know, I knew it had to
Speaker 5: be something that made a lot of sense, but I
Speaker 5: didn't know what it would be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you say that the service element, I saw
Speaker 2: that every day. I moved to Inwood, Manhattan with my
Speaker 2: fiance who his family's Dominican. I lived there for about
Speaker 2: eight months earlier this year, and we lived right across
Speaker 2: the street from this giant like cashing palace I called
Speaker 2: it sometimes. It had two entrances, and it looked really
Speaker 2: super nice and it was like lit on Friday there.
Speaker 2: Everyone came to the check cashing place, and it's sort of, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was part of the fabric of the community. And
Speaker 2: do you feel like the what's behind that is just
Speaker 2: the fact that banks have gotten so much less prevalent
Speaker 2: in people's everyday lives, especially a sensory session. It seems like,
Speaker 2: you know, people you see banks closing up their brick
Speaker 2: and mortar locations, so you know, is it a symptom
Speaker 2: of just the fact that big banks have sort of
Speaker 2: been moving out of these communities, or that they were
Speaker 2: never there in the first place.
Speaker 5: Think, I think it's part of it that that banks
Speaker 5: are moving out, and you know, that's related to the
Speaker 5: change in banks business models as well. Right, So many
Speaker 5: of us, myself included, actually like being able to.
Speaker 4: Bank online at night or on the weekend.
Speaker 5: Or whatever and not have to go and stand in
Speaker 5: a line. So I think we've all kind of voted
Speaker 5: with our consumer behavior in that way. But it also
Speaker 5: banks are also creating an incentive for us to do that.
Speaker 5: You know, they recognize that a one transaction at a
Speaker 5: teller costs a dollar and a transaction online cost a
Speaker 5: couple of pennies, so they save a lot of money.
Speaker 5: And you know, I've been in bank teller lines where
Speaker 5: someone has come over and said, you know, can I
Speaker 5: show you how to use the ATM to do that,
Speaker 5: you know, clearly wanting me to develop a different kind
Speaker 5: of habit, right than going to the teller line. So
Speaker 5: I think that's part of it. Part of it is
Speaker 5: also the different business models. So you know, the things
Speaker 5: that you do at a check casher you can't do
Speaker 5: in a bank or you can't do online. Right, If
Speaker 5: you have a physical check and you want to cash it, well,
Speaker 5: you could deposit it in your bank and now you
Speaker 5: could take a picture of it. But what stops a
Speaker 5: lot of people and causes them to go to the
Speaker 5: check hasher instead is that it'll take days for.
Speaker 4: That check to clear.
Speaker 5: And if you know, if I go to the check casher,
Speaker 5: I get my money right away. But other kinds of
Speaker 5: things like sending money to relatives overseas, people can't do online.
Speaker 5: So that's kind of part of it too. The guy
Speaker 5: who was who was the president of the check cashing
Speaker 5: firm where I worked in the South Bronx, he would
Speaker 5: say banks want one customer with a million dollars and
Speaker 5: check cashers want a million customers with one dollar because
Speaker 5: check ushers actually make their money from people coming in
Speaker 5: over and over again and doing transactions, whereas banks really
Speaker 5: would rather you didn't come in at all. And I
Speaker 5: think part of when you talk about the relationship, we
Speaker 5: have in the process lost that relationship, and for many
Speaker 5: people that's valuable, particularly if they're kind of living close
Speaker 5: to the edge and they don't have a large monthly balance,
Speaker 5: they sometimes actually need help from a banker, and it's
Speaker 5: much harder to get that now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and it's just so expensive like that.
Speaker 2: Of course you would feel you'd be so afraid of
Speaker 2: getting that thirty five dollars overdraft fee that you know,
Speaker 2: one or two dollars fee every time you kash should
Speaker 2: check probably seems like nothing compared to that. It almost
Speaker 2: feels like the banks are saying, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: want you anyway, so if you can't handle these fees,
Speaker 2: well then there's you know, nothing for you here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like if you don't
Speaker 5: have a large balance, you know that qualifies you for
Speaker 5: this whatever it is, City Bank Gold or other preferential treatment.
Speaker 5: You know, we're going to just make money off of
Speaker 5: you from fees. And it's really about in the eighties
Speaker 5: that banks started really switching how they made their money
Speaker 5: off of consumers.
Speaker 4: Where it used to be interest income.
Speaker 5: And you know, you'd get three percent, you'd get three
Speaker 5: percent interest on your savings account, and you'd pay six
Speaker 5: percent for a loan, but interest rates were volatile. The
Speaker 5: savings and loan crisis kind of showed how that could work.
Speaker 5: And not be good for banks. And then they discovered
Speaker 5: that they could make a ton of money off of fees,
Speaker 5: over draft fees being the biggest culprit banks made. I
Speaker 5: believe it's thirty two billion dollars in twenty fourteen from
Speaker 5: overdraft fees. So that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: One fee alone. Yes, so let's keep ants on for
Speaker 2: them and then hurting exactly right, millions of people out
Speaker 2: there and not can people understand this either? You know,
Speaker 2: my day job Magnify, we get a lot of emails
Speaker 2: from people who can't even join a bank because they're
Speaker 2: you know, there's a system called checks where your record,
Speaker 2: your bank and checking behavior is tracked, and then if
Speaker 2: you have too many overdraft fees, it's like you're blacklisted.
Speaker 4: That's right, Which is that's.
Speaker 2: Right either way?
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are a couple of million people in the
Speaker 5: United States that cannot get a bank account at all.
Speaker 5: So that's a really important point that there are lots
Speaker 5: of people who can't get a bank account because they've
Speaker 5: had maybe too many instances of overdraft. You know, these
Speaker 5: systems are all prone to failure too, so there are
Speaker 5: plenty of people who've gotten booted out of their bank
Speaker 5: for a very small problem or because of a clerical.
Speaker 4: Mistake, and they cannot get back in even.
Speaker 5: You know, in the banks to your point use this
Speaker 5: check system and they share the information. So if I
Speaker 5: have a problem at one bank, another bank is likely
Speaker 5: to use the same software and they won't let me
Speaker 5: start get an account there either.
Speaker 4: So you know, for some.
Speaker 5: People they're pushed out, they haven't opted out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I can sort of see how then you
Speaker 2: would run to the check cashing place and sort of
Speaker 2: feel a place of companionship or at least like comfort level.
Speaker 2: They're in your neighborhood. They'll probably look like you and
Speaker 2: speak like you, and no people like you, and it
Speaker 2: probably feels a lot more comfortable. Did your opinion of these,
Speaker 2: you know, check cashing places and patia lenders? Did it change?
Speaker 2: Because I know I'm definitely have been in that like
Speaker 2: very black and white world of oh they're all terrible
Speaker 2: and they're just completely predatory. How did your opinion of
Speaker 2: them change throughout the course of your research and writing
Speaker 2: the book?
Speaker 4: You know, it definitely changed.
Speaker 5: I wasn't really studying consumer financial services when I started
Speaker 5: doing this, but the way that the story about how
Speaker 5: I started doing it.
Speaker 4: Doing the research.
Speaker 5: The way I did was that I had a check
Speaker 5: casher come to a class I was teaching and talk
Speaker 5: about what he did. And you know, the only literature
Speaker 5: that I could find find to assign to my students.
Speaker 5: I mean, I, like you, I assumed that these guys
Speaker 5: were up to no good. You know, they were charging
Speaker 5: people too much, they were making money off the backs
Speaker 5: of the poor in ways that weren't exactly ethical, and
Speaker 5: that was pretty much, you know, the good research I
Speaker 5: could find was saying the same thing.
Speaker 4: And then when Joe Coleman, my.
Speaker 5: My boss, ultimately my boss at the check cashing store,
Speaker 5: came he really had a very compelling argument about why
Speaker 5: he thought his businesses were.
Speaker 4: Helping people in low income communities.
Speaker 5: And you know, I didn't kind of buy the story
Speaker 5: hook line and zincer, but I it made a lot
Speaker 5: of sense, you know, which led me to go and
Speaker 5: work in the stores. And I, if anything, so I
Speaker 5: tried to go in kind of with an open mind,
Speaker 5: but if anything, I was in that camp of like,
Speaker 5: there's something wrong here.
Speaker 4: You know, this costs way too much money. And I
Speaker 4: realized that.
Speaker 5: People were often making rational, logical decisions by choosing to
Speaker 5: manage their money with check cashers and sometimes pay day lenders.
Speaker 2: Did you feel like there is you know, and there
Speaker 2: maybe are some less terrible pay day lenders out there.
Speaker 2: I know in a lot of states, quite a few
Speaker 2: maybe over when was it nineteen now or twenty that
Speaker 2: states that actually cap? Because what really kills people with
Speaker 2: payday loans? We kind of switching gears to talk about them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what really kills people is the interest rate, right, I
Speaker 2: mean it's you, and it's never like someone it's usually
Speaker 2: people don't just borrow that one time. They usually have
Speaker 2: to do a roll over loan, and then you get
Speaker 2: charged interest on that and then the fees and over
Speaker 2: and over again, and all that interest ends up being
Speaker 2: like hundreds of percentage points. And in some states that's different.
Speaker 2: I think in New York the interest rate cap has
Speaker 2: been set by officials so low that you can't even
Speaker 2: really operate here and make money as a payday lender anymore.
Speaker 2: But do you feel like enough is being done to
Speaker 2: rein in the guys who really are bad actors out there?
Speaker 4: Well? I think so.
Speaker 5: The first point you make, I think, or the last
Speaker 5: point you made, was that there are good actors and
Speaker 5: bad actors, and I think that's true in almost any industry.
Speaker 5: And pay day lending is illegal. I can't remember right
Speaker 5: now if it's twelve or thirteen states. New York is
Speaker 5: one of them. So there you can't. Well, technically you
Speaker 5: can't get a payday loan in New York State. However,
Speaker 5: it's pretty easy to get an online loan by an
Speaker 5: out of state.
Speaker 2: Rights are nuts.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there are hundreds of thousands of loans that
Speaker 5: get made in New York State each year online because
Speaker 5: it's very difficult to stop that business. Having said that, yes,
Speaker 5: you're absolutely right that the cost is expensive. Right, So
Speaker 5: when I said that people chose check hashers because they're
Speaker 5: cheaper than banks pay day lenders, what happens is they're expensive,
Speaker 5: but people who need the money typically feel like they
Speaker 5: don't have another option. Maybe they're maxed down on their
Speaker 5: credit card, or they don't have a credit card, they
Speaker 5: don't have anyone in their friend or family network that
Speaker 5: they could borrow from, or they don't feel right about
Speaker 5: doing that. A lot of people told us about you know,
Speaker 5: if I borrow money from my mother for my college duition,
Speaker 5: she'll never let me hear the end of it. You know,
Speaker 5: I can't even go to Starbucks and get a cup
Speaker 5: of coffee because I might run into her and she'll
Speaker 5: she'll make me feel bad. So but the problem is
Speaker 5: that you take out one of these loans, and maybe
Speaker 5: not everybody who's listening knows what they are, but they're
Speaker 5: generally loans of between fifty and three hundred dollars. They're
Speaker 5: called payday loans because they're due on your next payday
Speaker 5: in full, and the intro.
Speaker 4: The fees are very high.
Speaker 5: So the place that I worked, which was in Oakland, California,
Speaker 5: charged fifteen dollars per one hundred dollars lent. Now' it's
Speaker 5: pretty high. But let's imagine you take out one hundred
Speaker 5: dollars and you pay it right back in two weeks.
Speaker 5: Maybe it was worth it to you to get that
Speaker 5: eighty five dollars, you know, and pay the fifteen. But
Speaker 5: as you noted correctly, a lot of people get to
Speaker 5: that point where their next paycheck comes in and they
Speaker 5: can't afford it. They still can't, they don't have the
Speaker 5: extra money, and so they do what's called a rollover,
Speaker 5: which is they get that one hundred dollars again. And
Speaker 5: they pay another fifteen dollars, So that's you know, this
Speaker 5: is what angers consumer advocates because they feel like the
Speaker 5: loan is being sold as a very short term loan,
Speaker 5: but then it's not being used in the way that
Speaker 5: it's advertised, and that is a problem. The Consumer Finance
Speaker 5: Protection Bureau, which is the government agency that was created
Speaker 5: as part of Dodd Frank just a few five and
Speaker 5: a half years ago, is for the first time issuing
Speaker 5: some regulation.
Speaker 4: On payday loans.
Speaker 5: And most of these what I call alternative financial services providers,
Speaker 5: like pay day lenders and check hashers, they are regulated
Speaker 5: at the state, not the federal level, which which is
Speaker 5: why you have different situations from one state to another.
Speaker 5: So for the first time, a federal agency will regulate
Speaker 5: these agencies, and one of the things that's going to
Speaker 5: do is mandate that the lender verifies the borrowers' ability
Speaker 5: to pay. That's the easier said. It's a great idea,
Speaker 5: it's easier said than done, but.
Speaker 2: Kind of like a credit card company.
Speaker 5: Yes, at the exactly exactly, so you know, the idea
Speaker 5: is to kind of keep people from getting in trouble
Speaker 5: by taking out too much money, and it'll be One
Speaker 5: of the things that will happen. Partly as a result
Speaker 5: of that is people will also be making and the
Speaker 5: industry has already started doing that. They're issuing more installment
Speaker 5: loans as opposed to this traditional payday loan, which is
Speaker 5: a lump sum loan.
Speaker 4: You get it all and then you owe it all back.
Speaker 5: So that will help consumers because they won't have to
Speaker 5: come up with all the money at once. So I
Speaker 5: do think that some good things are happening in terms
Speaker 5: of regulation. The fact that lenders will have to charge
Speaker 5: will have to verify someone's ability to pay means they're
Speaker 5: going to have to take a little time between when
Speaker 5: you apply for that loan and when they give you
Speaker 5: the money, even if it's a couple of hours, and
Speaker 5: that will allow other business who work charging less to
Speaker 5: compete with them and hopefully lower the price.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had family members who have taken out
Speaker 2: title loans and payday loans and have been afraid to
Speaker 2: admit it, but they have, you know, later on, and
Speaker 2: when I ask them why, they're like, well, I just
Speaker 2: needed to write then, and I was I was, you know,
Speaker 2: thank god I had that, because I don't have an
Speaker 2: emergency fund and you know, with regulations like I'm all
Speaker 2: about the CFPB. I love them, I love the work
Speaker 2: they're doing. I'm worried for their future. I think, like
Speaker 2: a lot of people are. But what's out there for
Speaker 2: people who may need those loans and may not have
Speaker 2: emergency funds set aside, and you know, may feel like
Speaker 2: with these regulations that they're actually limiting their options for
Speaker 2: cash flow when they when they run into you a
Speaker 2: hard time.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a terrific point.
Speaker 5: And you know, I think so much of the conversation
Speaker 5: around payday lenders has been about the businesses, and if anything,
Speaker 5: it's been a sort of a paternalistic understanding of consumers
Speaker 5: saying like they don't know any better, So you can't make.
Speaker 4: These loans to them, because they'll get in too much
Speaker 4: trouble and it'll be worse for them, you know.
Speaker 5: And I went out not only did I work in
Speaker 5: the payday lendering the shop and also in the check
Speaker 5: hashing store, but I also interviewed scores of people who
Speaker 5: had taken out the loans apart from you know, serving
Speaker 5: them across the counter, and so many people told me
Speaker 5: that they didn't like the loans necessarily they thought they
Speaker 5: were expensive, but they felt like they really needed them.
Speaker 4: When they didn't have any other option.
Speaker 5: And you know, one of the things I try to
Speaker 5: draw attention to in my book is that that is
Speaker 5: the situation for an increasing number of Americans. Fifty percent
Speaker 5: of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Fifty percent could
Speaker 5: not come up with even two thousand dollars in the
Speaker 5: event of an emergency. And that means not just you
Speaker 5: don't have two thousand in the bank, but you don't
Speaker 5: have anyone that you could borrow it from. And so
Speaker 5: I heard lots of stories of people saying, you know,
Speaker 5: I either take out this loan and I know it's expensive,
Speaker 5: or I lose my job because I can't fix my
Speaker 5: car unless I take out the loan and I can't
Speaker 5: get to work without my car. Or my kids are sick,
Speaker 5: you know, Or my kids are sick and I can't
Speaker 5: take them to the doctor, or my kids are hungry
Speaker 5: and I need to buy them food. And so, you know,
Speaker 5: I'm fortunate enough in my life that I've never had
Speaker 5: to face that kind of dire awful choice. But more
Speaker 5: and more Americans these days are facing that choice, and
Speaker 5: many people said, I didn't like the loan, but I'm
Speaker 5: really glad it was there because otherwise my kids would
Speaker 5: have been hungry.
Speaker 4: Otherwise I would have lost my job.
Speaker 5: And so, you know, at the same time that we're
Speaker 5: talking about reforming the financial.
Speaker 4: Services industry, we also have to.
Speaker 5: Think about the fact that the kind of economic situation,
Speaker 5: the situation of financial insecurity, has just expanded exponentially.
Speaker 4: It's just much much worse.
Speaker 5: It's much harder for people to be on stable footing
Speaker 5: in terms of how much money they have to survive.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: We love tips, we love actionable advice, and I know
Speaker 2: you've spoken. Even on your website you have a button
Speaker 2: for people who want to ditch their big bank yeah
Speaker 2: and find someone, which I love. You know, I was
Speaker 2: all about that ditch your bank movement after the recession
Speaker 2: and for the financial crisis. You know, I'm a We're
Speaker 2: a huge fan of online banks, barn Ambition and Magnify Money.
Speaker 2: So do you feel like things are you know there's
Speaker 2: banks online that are that are offering lo fi accounts now,
Speaker 2: and can you talk a bit about alternatives that are
Speaker 2: out there for people who may you know, find themselves
Speaker 2: in a tight spot. And may not have all the
Speaker 2: information about alternatives.
Speaker 5: Sure, well, I think you know the kind of part
Speaker 5: of the problem. And this goes back to that second
Speaker 5: thing I said in terms of the reasons people are
Speaker 5: choosing not to use banks but to use check cashers
Speaker 5: instead is the issue of transparency. And so I think
Speaker 5: financial services have gotten a lot more complex since I
Speaker 5: was a kid, and it's very hard for people to
Speaker 5: figure out where should I go. People often feel paralyzed,
Speaker 5: you know, I thought this bank was was good, this
Speaker 5: big bank, it's got a big name, and I had
Speaker 5: a bad experience.
Speaker 4: But where do I go now?
Speaker 5: So I think helping people compare products and services side
Speaker 5: by side, which you guys do a couple of other
Speaker 5: sites do as well, is really important. I think that
Speaker 5: there also are banks and credit unions that both serve
Speaker 5: people better than some of the large banks. It's not
Speaker 5: really just a large, small thing. But the problem is
Speaker 5: you have to do your research. But there are hassle
Speaker 5: free accounts. Key Bank offers a great hassle free account
Speaker 5: if you're in one of the regions they serve sometimes
Speaker 5: for people who've been have the check systems problem and
Speaker 5: they've been booted out. There are some banks that have
Speaker 5: a second chance account where you can get a second
Speaker 5: get another account, even if you're on that blacklist. And
Speaker 5: you know, people who use credit unions on average pay
Speaker 5: lesson fees every year than people.
Speaker 4: Who use banks.
Speaker 5: Credit unions aren't nonprofit, they're cooperatives, so I think there
Speaker 5: are good alternatives. But yeah, the reason I put the
Speaker 5: button on my website this is how to leave your bank,
Speaker 5: and I'd love to add you guys to the list
Speaker 5: is because people need an easy one to figure these
Speaker 5: things out, and our situations are different, so there isn't
Speaker 5: really a one size fits all approach.
Speaker 4: There are also some.
Speaker 5: Really interesting innovations coming down the line from the fintech
Speaker 5: kind of financial technology segment that should make it easier
Speaker 5: and more cheap to bang. But absolutely people need to
Speaker 5: do some comparison shopping and there are people and sites
Speaker 5: out there that can help.
Speaker 4: You do it well.
Speaker 2: Lisa, thank you so much for coming on Brown Ambition.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you sharing and congratulations on the book.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 3: And we're back with questions how do you say questions
Speaker 3: in Spanish?
Speaker 1: And that's why.
Speaker 3: So we have a question from Let's call her Lovely.
Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, Lovely does not sound like a stripper name
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 3: So Lovely ask if question. I've been looking at my
Speaker 3: credit report since the joining the Liverature Challenge credit edition
Speaker 3: Woo Woo Shadow Dream Catcher, but I'm still confused about
Speaker 3: the closed, sold or charge off accounts on my report.
Speaker 1: Can you help?
Speaker 3: Certainly, we can, She said, I would like to know
Speaker 3: if I should make arrangements to pay them off or
Speaker 3: just wait until they fall off my credit report.
Speaker 1: And she told us the dates.
Speaker 2: So well, let's start by reminding people what is what
Speaker 2: does it mean when your account has been charged off
Speaker 2: or sold?
Speaker 3: That means the original company that you owed. So let's
Speaker 3: just say you owed Sears and you bought a washing
Speaker 3: machine from Sears and it was you know, I don't know,
Speaker 3: you were making payments on it, right, and so at
Speaker 3: some point you lost your job, so you stopped making payments.
Speaker 3: So after everybody charges off or can they might have
Speaker 3: a different charge off schedule, but after either thirty sixty
Speaker 3: or ninety days, Sears says, you know what, Lovely's not
Speaker 3: going to pay it. Yes, So they go to the
Speaker 3: federal government and basically say, you know, we're just marking
Speaker 3: this as a loss basically, and then they will sell it,
Speaker 3: typically to a third party or is the second party
Speaker 3: third party third Yeah, I'm like, wait, third party a
Speaker 3: third party company where this is basically a debt collector
Speaker 3: and now they own the debt.
Speaker 1: And so that's when something is charged off or sold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just them saying. It's just them admitting this
Speaker 2: is never gonna be paid off, so we're writing it off.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that it's gonna fall off your credit report.
Speaker 2: In fact, it really reflects badly. Once you have a
Speaker 2: sold off account, it sucks. It's gonna drag your credit
Speaker 2: down and it'll stay on there for you know, upboards
Speaker 2: of seven years before it falls off.
Speaker 3: But the good news is is that if a charge
Speaker 3: off happens and it's over two years old where it
Speaker 3: was actually charged off, then it's not making quite the
Speaker 3: debt on your credit as things that are newer. So
Speaker 3: our main advice is this, I'm not saying don't pay it,
Speaker 3: but I want you to focus on things on your
Speaker 3: credit report that have happened in the last two years
Speaker 3: because that's what's really affecting your score. So if you
Speaker 3: have like let's just say you have eight hundred dollars
Speaker 3: and you have a charge off that happened last April,
Speaker 3: and you have a charge off that happened four years ago,
Speaker 3: and you have to decide where should I give the money?
Speaker 3: To give the money to the charge off that happened
Speaker 3: last April, because that's where you're going to see the
Speaker 3: effect of improving your credit score.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one in particular. She goes into a bit
Speaker 2: of detail. She's basically had three accounts charged off. The
Speaker 2: earliest or the oldest one was charged off in twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: then twenty thirteen, then just this past April and twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: So it seems like focusing on that most recent one
Speaker 2: that was charged off in April and the older ones,
Speaker 2: you know, when you get to them, you get to
Speaker 2: them and as a reminder though, and check what's your
Speaker 2: state and maybe even contact a consumer attorney to be sure.
Speaker 2: But states have statute the limitations on debt on debt,
Speaker 2: and that just basically says after a certain number of years,
Speaker 2: it can be from six to ten sometimes depending on
Speaker 2: what state you live, on that debt collector or a
Speaker 2: lender cannot sue you in core for the unpaid debt.
Speaker 2: So generally, if it's reached past that point, you know,
Speaker 2: if you feel bad about it and you just got
Speaker 2: money laying around, you can make good on that debt.
Speaker 2: You technically still owe it, but they can't. There's no
Speaker 2: legal recourse for them at that point, which is why
Speaker 2: it's even more important to focus on the ones that
Speaker 2: you can still be sued for exactly, that are still
Speaker 2: fresh on your credit report.
Speaker 3: So like, for example, New Jersey, New York are statute
Speaker 3: of limitations on revolving debt is six years, okay, so
Speaker 3: then after so for example, so this twenty eleven one,
Speaker 3: this would be past the statute.
Speaker 1: Well if she's.
Speaker 2: From this area, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Some states it goes up to twenty so yeah, and
Speaker 3: some states is three.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there's a there's a good website I go to
Speaker 2: for like some I mean it's kind of like the
Speaker 2: Wikipedia of legal stuff, so you know, it's not the greatest,
Speaker 2: but no lo dot Com I think has a list
Speaker 2: of statutes per state. But great question. We get a
Speaker 2: lot of questions on charge offs.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's a good question, and good congratulations on the
Speaker 3: Live with your Challenge Credit Edition.
Speaker 2: I am in the right place.
Speaker 1: I love when you dream catchers.
Speaker 2: Just ride in and if you guys have questions again,
Speaker 2: you know we're find us Brand Ambition podcast dot com.
Speaker 2: You can just chat us right there, or you can
Speaker 2: always just email us at Brand Ambition Podcasts at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com or tweet us at the BA podcast on Twitter, Yes, Twitter,
Speaker 2: Twata And why are there? Leave us a review?
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Speaker 3: You're welcome, so make sure that you stay connected. You
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Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. And while you're at it, please, like we said,
Speaker 2: leave us a review if you could.
Speaker 4: Please.
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Speaker 2: is super important as we're trying to grow. It's been
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Speaker 1: Better, be so much better, so much better.
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