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Speaker 1: We're back. We're back. The one is really nice. Randomly,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: The weather's nice? It was disgusting today.

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Speaker 3: No, it's actually like it's warmish.

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Speaker 2: It's warm, but it's like a blanket of death has

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Speaker 2: fallen upon New Jersey and New York. It's so gray.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like, what nice for Jersey winter.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, Okay, I mean it's not like there's

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Speaker 2: not two feet of snow, so I guess you got it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But I was like it was good, like stay in

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Speaker 2: bed until two pm?

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Speaker 3: Whoopsie, Yeah, yeah it was. I could barely get out

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Speaker 3: of bed today.

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Speaker 2: I was like, why I heard the vacum cleaner and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I guess I'll get up clean now.

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Speaker 1: How do you know?

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Speaker 3: Oh so guys it's brown and bush and yeah yah,

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Speaker 3: yeah you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're here, be in here. Thank you for coming

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Speaker 2: back for another week.

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Speaker 1: Yes, before we do we how.

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Speaker 2: Many sixty six are sixty six or so? Txty seventh show?

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Speaker 2: I always have to check every week.

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Speaker 1: We're in our golden years.

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Speaker 2: We are we can get social Security financial nerd joke.

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Speaker 2: I know they're like, what but before we get into

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Speaker 2: the show and it's a very exciting shoul We have

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Speaker 2: a cool guest today, cool updates from Tiffany on the

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Speaker 2: Dreamcatchers and the Literature Challenge today. But before all of

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Speaker 2: that goodness, we want to ask again. At the end

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Speaker 2: of the show last week we mentioned this, but we

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Speaker 2: really would like your support leaving us reviews on iTunes.

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Speaker 2: We know that you guys love the show. We've had

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Speaker 2: a record months so far with down loads and subscribers.

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Speaker 2: So thank you, thank you, thank you, yes, thank you

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Speaker 2: for supporting our little show. But do you really want

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Speaker 2: to show your support more than subscribing? You could go

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Speaker 2: to iTunes and leave just a short review with you know,

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Speaker 2: five stars, however you feel about it that day, five stars,

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Speaker 2: five stars know So Mandy Hat Someone email message us

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Speaker 2: on Facebook and said, how do you do that? It's

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Speaker 2: kind of okay, how do you do that? So if

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Speaker 2: you're listening on your phone, just go to your my

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Speaker 2: podcast app if you have an iPhone maybe you have

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Speaker 2: there's a different way on the Android. But if you

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Speaker 2: go to where we listen to our podcast, you should

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Speaker 2: be able to click our name and go to our

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Speaker 2: show page and you can write a review there. I

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Speaker 2: think it's actually easier just to go to Google. Go

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Speaker 2: to Google, or open up your iTunes and look for

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Speaker 2: Brown Ambition Podcasts in the iTunes store, and easily, right

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Speaker 2: there you'll see a tab I think it's in the

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Speaker 2: top left corner that says write a review. And it's

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Speaker 2: literally like a two second process. I don't think you'd

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Speaker 2: have to sign in. I think you just have to

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Speaker 2: you know, lead. I don't think you can probably do

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Speaker 2: it anonymously.

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Speaker 1: If somebody knows, tweet us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, troubleshoot it support.

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Speaker 3: Yes, if somebody out there knows, someone's like no, that's

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Speaker 3: not how you do it.

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Speaker 2: But after last week's show, we had about twenty or

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Speaker 2: thirty new reviews, So thank you. Let's just get even

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Speaker 2: more because, like I said, it's for some reason, iTunes

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Speaker 2: just loves the podcast that have more reviews, and it's

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Speaker 2: actually pretty heavily weighted besides just the number of people

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Speaker 2: who are downloading. So I've learned that I would like

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Speaker 2: to really push us up in the rate, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's the way to do it.

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Speaker 1: So get reviewing, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Unless it's a one star and then you can stay home.

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Speaker 1: Nobody cares about those. So how is your week.

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Speaker 2: My week was a week. It was a busy, busy week.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I talked about doing Hello Fresh and I was super excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I need you to resend me that link.

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Speaker 2: Did you not use my free box?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: She left money on the table.

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Speaker 3: It was like a week and I started to I

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Speaker 3: started to apply, but I was waiting for my new

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Speaker 3: card in the mail.

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Speaker 2: Oh go, mind, wait a second, are you like my father?

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Speaker 2: She literally just pulled her card out of her cardholder

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Speaker 2: and there was a a Vental floss pick behind it.

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Speaker 2: My father keeps one in his wallet.

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Speaker 1: You never know.

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Speaker 3: So I was waiting for my new my new card

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Speaker 3: in the mail, so I didn't have it at the

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Speaker 3: moment when you so, if you can reacend it, because

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Speaker 3: I do want to try.

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Speaker 2: Hell, I'll see if I got another one. But this

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Speaker 2: week I did. I didn't plan it very well because

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Speaker 2: we had a lot of afterwork engagements. Okay, I opened

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Speaker 2: the fridge today and we have three meals left from

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Speaker 2: our form four meals. Yeah, so I'm like, okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna cook one for lunch and then you do one

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Speaker 2: for dinner. We'll do one for lunch tomorrow because okay,

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Speaker 2: I want to go bad and you know.

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Speaker 1: You know for sure that would be crazy.

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Speaker 2: But what happened this week? Oh my goodness, Oh you

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Speaker 2: know I have an update on the well shoot other

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Speaker 2: than the world ending and yes, the you know it

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Speaker 2: has happened. Voldemort has the elder wand and he's taken

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Speaker 2: over the country.

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Speaker 3: But okay, because our fearless heroes are still trying their best.

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Speaker 2: Are Yeah, the women of the world were out there.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Oh it was so like well suising to my soul

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Speaker 2: yesterday to see all the women.

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Speaker 3: Around the world. That's what really like touched me. It

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Speaker 3: was like, wow. It wasn't just I heard all seven

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Speaker 3: continents participated.

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Speaker 2: Or Antarctica, yes, Penguin's.

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Speaker 3: March, but I heard somebody was like, yo, do you

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Speaker 3: know you got to be a bad, a terrible person.

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Speaker 1: Indeed to get people in Arctica to.

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Speaker 2: Out, they're like negative five thousand degrees. What I need

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Speaker 2: to see pictures.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think I'm going to google it. I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: be google it. But yeah, I heard all seven consonants.

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Speaker 2: I was really depressed because I got really sick yesterday

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Speaker 2: and I had The march started around eleven thirty in

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Speaker 2: New York and I was really a sick, the kind

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Speaker 2: of sick where you don't want to be too far

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Speaker 2: from facilities, if you know what I mean. So I

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Speaker 2: didn't go, and then we had plans later that day.

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Speaker 2: But I was on Instagram all day scrolling through and

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Speaker 2: liking every single picture and they were just some amazing

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Speaker 2: the signage, and I love seeing the moms out there

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Speaker 2: with their little kids and really beautiful Women's March protests

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Speaker 2: Reach Antarctica photos. That's a good number of people Antarctica.

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Speaker 2: That's like twenty five.

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Speaker 3: That's thirty people ant Look, that's crazy. It's actually a

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Speaker 3: really good number of people.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they were on an expedition trip seven and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't get out of my apartment all seven consonants. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'm ashamed, but I did read that there were more

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Speaker 2: people at the Women's in DCA than what's his face

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Speaker 2: is inauguration, which he actually.

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Speaker 3: Had a press conference about which I thought, Wow, your

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Speaker 3: ego so salty.

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Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, you know, none of the press conference.

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Speaker 2: He went to the CIA to talk about national security,

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Speaker 2: and that's where he decided to call out the media

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Speaker 2: for sharing that photo. If you haven't seen it yet,

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Speaker 2: it'll it'll soothe your soul like a sue mine. It's

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Speaker 2: the two thousand and nine inaugural crowd compared to twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: which is amazing. There's like half the number of people.

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Speaker 2: I think, I think one less than that. One third

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Speaker 2: the number came out for Trump as they did for

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Speaker 2: Obama and nine, which that was amazing.

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Speaker 1: It was I had the giggles.

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Speaker 2: You needed that too, because it was such a dark day.

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Speaker 2: It was Friday. Oh, it felt like Friday the thirteenth

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 3: And what it goes to show you is that, like,

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Speaker 3: because you know, when when when he won, we were

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Speaker 3: all confused, like do more people really?

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Speaker 1: Do they really feel like this?

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Speaker 3: Is that, you know? And just the fact that way

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Speaker 3: more people came out for the marching than than for

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Speaker 3: the the march for him, I guess you could call

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Speaker 3: it it just I'm not certain what happened as far

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Speaker 3: as the election is concerned and why it's swayed in

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Speaker 3: that direction. But I think that that he has woken

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Speaker 3: a sleeping giant. And I think that people are like, oh,

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Speaker 3: because I think so many people. To me, they weren't

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Speaker 3: pro Hillary and they weren't necessary, but they definitely were

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Speaker 3: not pro Hams, so they were just kind of chilling.

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Speaker 1: And now they're like, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 2: Because it's real now he was elected.

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Speaker 1: Yeh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 3: I can no longer just kind of chill on the sideline.

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Speaker 3: I have to do something, And I think I thank

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Speaker 3: him honestly for that, because I think that there is

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Speaker 3: no more powerful movement than people who are joined together

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Speaker 3: under a common cause. The downfall of you, my cheated

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Speaker 3: delicious friends, is cheating cheato.

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Speaker 2: The news chet was the other one.

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Speaker 3: Lovey has like if you don't know lovey awtimately love

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Speaker 3: you dot com. Right. She has this great uh, this

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Speaker 3: great blog post of why will still continue to disrespect

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Speaker 3: how she plans.

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Speaker 2: She came off like a how long hiatus, like a

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Speaker 2: month long as in her first business of order was

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Speaker 2: to take down Trump and continue to pledge to take

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Speaker 2: him down. Yes, I feel like that's what's happening. Though,

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Speaker 2: I feel like artists especially, but anyone out there, it's

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Speaker 2: never been like this is a call to actually like,

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Speaker 2: it's never been a more important time to get involved,

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Speaker 2: to speak up, to get your life right, yep, to

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Speaker 2: prepare yourself and protect yourself from whatever is coming. I

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Speaker 2: mean one of the first things he sat down in

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Speaker 2: his you know chair to do in the old Oval office,

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Speaker 2: which makes my stomach hurt thinking about it, was to

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Speaker 2: start walking back Obamacare, start setting the stage for that.

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Speaker 2: And he even cut the homeowners first time homeowners yeah,

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Speaker 2: insurance tax cut. Yeah, that's random. Yeah, like just why

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Speaker 2: you know, and I know, and I mean not even

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Speaker 2: about Trump. I mean, you know, I got into a

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Speaker 2: little texting war with some family members or just one

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Speaker 2: in particular, who I won't name, who I suspect was

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Speaker 2: a Trump supporter and I you know, and I was

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Speaker 2: and they were like, you know, he's president, just get

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Speaker 2: over it. And I'm like, it's not about him. It's

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Speaker 2: like everyone he is bringing into power around him.

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Speaker 1: It's not.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I read that. That's the part that's

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Speaker 3: what irritated me. I'm like, people are so self centered

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Speaker 3: and then they're thinking, oh, this is just you guys whining.

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Speaker 3: It's honestly, it's not. That's not what this is. It's

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Speaker 3: about the policies that are now going to be going forward.

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Speaker 3: Did you see it was like so epic this Facebook

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Speaker 3: post that became viral. Now, this young guy that was like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, I'm so glad you know that he's

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Speaker 3: gonna do president, because now we can get rid of

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Speaker 3: this Obamacare and it's he started to like like talk

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: He was saying.

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Speaker 3: Somebody was like, don't you use what is Obamacare? The

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Speaker 3: real official name is ACA Affordable Care right, And he

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Speaker 3: was like, yeah, so maybe this affordable care I think

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Speaker 3: can really get a chance. And they were like, they

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Speaker 3: were like somebody was like yeah, somebody was like, don't

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Speaker 3: you use affordable care. Yeah, that's what I use, but

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Speaker 3: I don't use Obamacare. They're like, that's the same thing.

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Speaker 3: He's like, no, it's not. He was like, they were like, yo,

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Speaker 3: it is so epic, and you could see.

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Speaker 4: He told me.

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Speaker 2: The White House was so against Obamacare becoming a thing

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Speaker 2: that everyone said, because then you could point it to

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Speaker 2: the enemy and attach it and forget what it actually does.

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Speaker 3: So he actually voted against the only health insurance that

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Speaker 3: he was able to get because it was called Obamacare.

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Speaker 3: And they were like, wow, you literally voted against your

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Speaker 3: own health and he was silent. I'm like, why is

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Speaker 3: this Somebody actually wrote why is this post still?

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Speaker 4: Love?

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Speaker 1: I would delete this as soon as possible.

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Speaker 3: But I just thought to myself, Wow, I wonder how

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Speaker 3: many people voted against themselves out of fear and ignorance

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Speaker 3: because they did not realize like if you have a child,

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Speaker 3: that's that's you know, above twenty six, you know, or

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Speaker 3: below but twenty or like what above eighteen?

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Speaker 1: Now what does it?

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Speaker 2: It had to be younger than twenty six, like.

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Speaker 3: Right, that was before, right you used to at least

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Speaker 3: be able to be like, oho, I didn't get a

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't have a job just yet, but

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Speaker 3: I could still be under my parents, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, insurance.

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Speaker 3: And now that's not that you know, that's in danger

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Speaker 3: of not being so or pre existing diseases like that's just.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't It was just a few years

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Speaker 2: ago that you could have had cancer, which is out

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Speaker 2: of your control, and if you needed insurance you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: get it, like or diabetes even could have just qualified

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Speaker 2: you from health care.

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Speaker 3: But like, my nephew has full blown sickle style and yeah,

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Speaker 3: we just found out. And I was just like, well,

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Speaker 3: not just found that, but you know, and I was

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Speaker 3: just thinking about that, like, so what does that? What

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Speaker 3: does that mean? You know, this is a pre existing condition,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it just made me really work, you know,

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Speaker 3: because that hit really close to home, like there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a cap of how much insurance.

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Speaker 1: He might reach that cap by the time he's five.

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Speaker 1: Then what happens?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my father as soon as Obamacare or sorry, the

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Speaker 2: Affordable Care dot came into being, the Healthcare dot Gov

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Speaker 2: was launched that very first year, I signed my dad

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Speaker 2: up and he's been My family, A lot of them

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Speaker 2: are morbidly obese, and he's a diet He was a

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Speaker 2: diabetic and he was morbidly obese, and one of the

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Speaker 2: first things he did was he went and got his

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Speaker 2: all of his checkups. And he hasn't had insurance since

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Speaker 2: I was ten or eleven because he quit his job

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Speaker 2: and went up to be an entreprene were in launch

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Speaker 2: of restaurant business, and he never had insurance. He survived

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Speaker 2: because he had friends see the medical profession who would

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Speaker 2: give him, like, you know, a discount on dental services

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Speaker 2: and things like that. But he became really unhealthy and

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Speaker 2: he went in all his checkups and his doctor was like,

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Speaker 2: it's time you need to get gasher bypass surgery. And

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Speaker 2: he got the surgery, which probably saved his life. He's

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Speaker 2: no longer diabetic and Obamacare covered it.

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Speaker 1: Like all of it.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and he's like a whole different person now, so healthy.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me and it just sort of shatters

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Speaker 2: me to think that people you know, like my father

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Speaker 2: won't have access because they chose not to work for

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Speaker 2: a company, which is a lot of people, you know.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, and even then I've just been reading I

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Speaker 3: have not I'm not gonna lie, I don't have all

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Speaker 3: the details, but like, there are even people who even

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Speaker 3: if you work for a company, there are.

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Speaker 1: Things that don't get covered. Yeah, which is just like sol.

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Speaker 2: I just got my dental bill, so believe me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I just it's a scary time. And I've been being

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Speaker 3: very careful about how much I've allowed myself to ingest

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Speaker 3: because it gets really scary, really scary, not.

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Speaker 1: Not just frustrating him mad.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what a lot of Trump supporters saying, Oh,

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Speaker 3: you guys are a bunch of winers. No, it's people. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we're people mad and upset. But now there's real fear

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Speaker 3: that is setting.

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Speaker 2: To be fearful. Yeah, I think it's more important than

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Speaker 2: ever to pay attention though, because someone needs to be watching,

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Speaker 2: you know, the media needs and it's such a scary

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Speaker 2: it's like a it's a weird tightrope because you want

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Speaker 2: to be on him and watching him and be like

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Speaker 2: an aggressive reporter. But then you see what he does

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Speaker 2: when he doesn't like what you report about him. He

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Speaker 2: shuts you out, he shuts you down. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be really fair. I'm going to be watching like a hawk.

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Speaker 2: I mean one of the I mean again, I say

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Speaker 2: that one of the first acts he did as president

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Speaker 2: was go to the CIA to protect our nation from

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Speaker 2: outside terrorist attacks and decided to, you know, talk beef

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Speaker 2: with the media for posting a tweet you know of

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Speaker 2: a black sture, which is just like you know, Michelle Obama.

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Speaker 2: But the I go they go low, we go high.

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Speaker 2: He's just always low love. He doesn't know how to

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Speaker 2: go and he hire and mo Michelle everyone you saw

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Speaker 2: the inaugural, like the one takeaway wasn't that Michelle gift

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Speaker 2: or the Michelle meme? Like someone caught her in a

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Speaker 2: dirty look and it was I did I did feel

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Speaker 2: like the weather was like responding to did you see

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Speaker 2: the w yo? That was what comes so adorable.

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Speaker 3: First of all, I was like, because somebody, please help

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Speaker 3: this man with a show. I don't know how to

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Speaker 3: get this or don't like use a poncho. It was

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Speaker 3: like the Pancho the hood was like to his faith.

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Speaker 3: He was like, I don't know how it got into this.

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Speaker 1: I just was like, w W. I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: be like, I just what was Laura?

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Speaker 2: You just take this the type of thing she had

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Speaker 2: the bathroom br you take.

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Speaker 1: Of your kid, you like to stop it, just stop it.

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Speaker 2: When did he become so cute? And like I kind

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Speaker 2: of look at him, I'm like, I don't get you

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Speaker 2: have started him for yeah?

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Speaker 1: Right, you almost wished for him back. Paint me a picture.

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Speaker 3: G W.

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Speaker 1: Did you see he's actually a pretty good painting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he is. He is a good painter, somebody wrote.

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Speaker 3: And I thought this was interesting that there was a

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Speaker 3: picture of him painting and the painting is actually pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Someone said, this is this is a clear cut example

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Speaker 3: of when kids are pushed into things that you know

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Speaker 3: that are really what their parents went not with they want.

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Speaker 3: He might have made an amazing artist versus you know,

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Speaker 3: the destroyer of the free world.

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Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, i'd prefer him in an art school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you never know, maybe that's what he really enjoyed.

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Speaker 3: And it was like, no, this is what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be the president. Yes, well they were there,

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Speaker 2: you know, Hillary, but I watched the beginning when they

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Speaker 2: were you know, before they come out for the actual speech.

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Speaker 2: They are all inside the Capitol and they're like being presented,

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Speaker 2: kind of like at a debutante ball. And I saw

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Speaker 2: Bill and Hillary preparing and you could see her, you know,

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Speaker 2: that lovely white suit, do you like a like steal herself?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, girl, I can't even imagine. Can

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Speaker 2: you imagine having to go out in that stage? What's like?

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Speaker 2: And then and then as soon as she got out,

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Speaker 2: the smile came on and the campaign lights hit her

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Speaker 2: and you can see her just like switch come on. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I really like that moment of humanity, like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is this is real life and

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Speaker 3: this is crazy. But I hate put on my brave face.

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Speaker 2: And I could tell Michelle was like not into it.

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Speaker 3: And yes, I thought, wow, my friend, my best friend

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Speaker 3: lind to call me. She's like, girl, Michelle thought, I'm

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Speaker 3: over a ponytailing every black girl knows that Poe.

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Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, don't worry about it. You

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Speaker 1: didn't got to do. No, just just put it back

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Speaker 1: to be president.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly to put this big conon this.

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Speaker 3: I don't care, like you know what, I'm not even

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Speaker 3: trying to come out here stunt like I used to.

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Speaker 2: And Malania tried so hard to be her friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, I feel honestly, the truth is

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Speaker 3: I feel kind of bad for her because.

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Speaker 2: I can't tell why I feel bad for her though

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Speaker 2: she's as strong, you know, she's she got herself in

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Speaker 2: this position. Yeah, somebody wanted when you saw her dancing

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Speaker 2: with him, that looked really uncomfortable. She was held hostage.

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Speaker 3: Yes, somebody posted a beame said again if you need

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Speaker 3: help twice.

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Speaker 1: And I was rollic. I was like, that's how I feel.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I want to be like, are you okay?

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Speaker 2: Are you okay? I hated how smug is kids all

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Speaker 2: looked like, oh daddy in the White House.

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Speaker 1: I got this now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but stay woke. If you want a place you know,

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Speaker 2: in this WEE podcast, I'm gonna post some links to

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Speaker 2: some great organizations if you want to vote with your dollars,

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Speaker 2: which is what I've been doing. I've been pumping money

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Speaker 2: into things like planned parenthood, environmental organizations because if you

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Speaker 2: don't know, our president doesn't believe in climate change. So

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Speaker 2: I'll post some links if you want to. There's actually

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Speaker 2: a great Gothamas story with with good organizations to donate tokay,

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Speaker 2: and then go find your local I'll try and post

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Speaker 2: a link to where you can find your local senator

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Speaker 2: or congressman, because they're the ones who are going to

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Speaker 2: be the gatekeepers here, you know, voting for you know,

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Speaker 2: the policies he's put he's going to put forward as

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Speaker 2: people will put forward. So if you feel like you

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Speaker 2: can't do anything, you can. If you didn't get to

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Speaker 2: march yesterday, that's okay, you can. You can show your

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Speaker 2: support in other ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Nothing nothing works better than a dollar like actually, you know,

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Speaker 3: putting your money where your values are.

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Speaker 4: Ye?

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Speaker 3: Oh lord, are you ready to break or boost? I

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Speaker 3: don't even feel like a boost these days.

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Speaker 2: What there's gonna be something?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Well, I do want to take a a brown break

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Speaker 3: from the folks on because I mean, my my social

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Speaker 3: media was largely positive about the Women's March. But there

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Speaker 3: were a few people that actually really respected that were

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Speaker 3: speaking disparagingly about it, and I was like, something, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was actually surprised because they're, like I said, there

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Speaker 3: were people who, you know, I'm used to, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have some friends, You're like, Lord, here they go.

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Speaker 1: But there were people who I was like, really, not you.

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Speaker 2: What were they saying?

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Speaker 3: What was what was so marching is not going to

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Speaker 3: do anything, and it's better to put your you know,

436
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Speaker 3: put action towards you know, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: And you know, and so this is what I said.

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Speaker 3: This is gonna sound a little rudimentary or whatever, and sophomore,

439
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Speaker 3: but I don't care.

440
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: So you know how we love Harry Potter.

441
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 3: Right, yes, And we know how the defeat of He

442
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 3: who shall not be named, and that although Harry had

443
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 3: the clearly pivotal role in making that happen, they were

444
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 3: all of these supporting roles.

445
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: That were the Order of the Phoenix.

446
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 4: Huh.

447
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just equal it's important from like, you know,

448
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 3: from who's that little weird girl looming?

449
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: Everyone ever all killed the snakes.

450
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 2: If not for the snake, he wouldn't have gotten the

451
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 2: seventh part of Voldemort's soul.

452
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,959
Speaker 3: And so I have all that to say is that, like,

453
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 3: everybody's role is important. That yes, you mister intellectual or

454
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 3: missus intellectual, whatever you might be, you know, building a

455
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 3: nonprofit organization that teaches girls, that's great, But people marching

456
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,199
Speaker 3: is also part of the larger picture of change. And

457
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 3: that's the part that I'm like it makes that made

458
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,640
Speaker 3: me a little like upset with them, is that that

459
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 3: change doesn't just happen in one singular, focused way. That

460
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 3: all of these things matter, and that you might think

461
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 3: that like, oh, marching doesn't do anything but one you

462
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 3: don't know that how can you know that that there

463
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 3: could be a young girl in the march who goes

464
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 3: on to create a policy that goes on to you

465
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 3: don't know, there's so many things and almost three million

466
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,879
Speaker 3: people march, how can you say that nothing, that that

467
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 3: has done nothing, if not, but to motivate people to

468
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 3: go home and do more.

469
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:55,679
Speaker 1: So I say this.

470
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 3: Is that whatever way that you've chosen to change the

471
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 3: world around you, do that and then allow others to

472
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 3: choose for themselves how they're.

473
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: Going to express that change, you know.

474
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 3: And so that was like my kind of brown break

475
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 3: of like people tearing down you know, other people who

476
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 3: were just trying to do something, you know.

477
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's a positive thing. There's always going to

478
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 2: be people are going to try to politicize it. There

479
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 2: were people women of color who was saying they didn't

480
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: feel like the organizers were inclusive enough.

481
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 3: But it wasn't that a moment of color that started it.

482
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: But I don't actually know.

483
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, if her name was Tasha something other, I feel

484
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 3: like I kind of got away from her.

485
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 2: But I really know it was with those pictures that

486
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 2: I saw, the celebrities that were out there. It was

487
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 2: a rainbow of beauty. And you know what, maybe it

488
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: did get politicized, maybe they were, you know, making money

489
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 2: off her or whatever, But like, you're never going to

490
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 2: see a moment like that, Yeah, I haven't in my life.

491
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 2: It was a crowd of hundreds of millions, or not

492
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,239
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions, but millions of women out there, not

493
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 2: just women, but men too, with their children, and it

494
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: was a beautiful thing.

495
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 3: And I her name was Tamika Mawory. She it was

496
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 3: the brainchild of a woman named Tamika Maori. She is

497
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 3: the executive director of the National at Action Network.

498
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,479
Speaker 2: Young Girl Oh wow, Yeah, Tamika Mallory. Mm hmm, well

499
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: then everyone should be singing her praise.

500
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it kind of I get it. It kind of

501
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: grew beyond her.

502
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 2: Because you needed permits, it needed to be organized, It

503
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: became a whole. There had to be stages Madonna performed.

504
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 2: But I think.

505
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: Exactly, I think that it was just her initial call

506
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 3: to action. It led to people. But do you see

507
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 3: what I mean? Somebody might say, oh, Tamika, you're just talking,

508
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: but look at her initial call to action and how

509
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 3: it rippled to this, and so to me, there is

510
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 3: no small thing to do.

511
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,959
Speaker 2: I think people just get automatically cynical when something big happens,

512
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 2: like when it becomes bigger than like the grassroots. You know, yeah,

513
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: that's you know it should that's the way it should work.

514
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: You should have a small group making a larger voice,

515
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: and then they make a larger voice and just expands

516
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 2: and expands until everyone you can't not pay attention. No

517
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 2: one did not see that mark yesterday. Mister Voldemort himself

518
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: probably saw that and was humping around the White House.

519
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: Sam mad in the world and think in the media

520
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 2: was to blame. But like that message just proved I mean,

521
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: that's the kind of message that no one can ignore.

522
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: It's a powerful thing, and all the women out there,

523
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: it was just you know thing, thank you for doing.

524
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: That, so boost of women and our awesomeness and a

525
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 3: break to those sometimes who can't say anything nice. So

526
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 3: maybe they shouldn't say anything at all. So I got

527
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 3: this random song in my head, He's on down, E's

528
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 3: on down, Come on.

529
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: You know what it is?

530
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: I think it's because you're wearing this beautiful gold scarf

531
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 3: and it's making me think of Is.

532
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: It because they were live during the inaugural. Who was

533
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: it that started? I think it was Jamila Lamo from Uh.

534
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: She started she encouraged everyone to live tweet the whiz.

535
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: I love the pet No.

536
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 3: First of all, nobody was more petty than BuzzFeed with

537
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 3: the countdowns to next to lin. I'm here for all

538
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: this petty. So anyway, I know we have we hardly

539
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 3: ever have guests hod Hot.

540
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: Well when we do, they're awesome.

541
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: Yes they are, And we have an awesome guest today.

542
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: I get to chat with a really incredible author. I

543
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 2: was really uh excited that she said. Yes, it's always

544
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 2: surprising when they want to come on the show. But

545
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: I read this book called The Unbanking of America. The

546
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: name it's great, right, how the new middle class in

547
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 2: America survives. And it's by a writer professor at U Penn,

548
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: professor of city planning named Lisa Servaan. I hope, I

549
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: said her last name, right, We practice this and the

550
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 2: entire book is really it's it's fascinating. I mean, you're

551
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: we we know what's out there. I mean the banks

552
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: are so expensive now that people are turning even more

553
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: to these like alternative banks, like check cashing businesses are exploded.

554
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 2: Payday lenders have never been bigger, pawnshops even title loans,

555
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: all these types of products that are super expensive, but

556
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: people turn to them anyway.

557
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: And so like why and what can you do?

558
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of people are like condescending about it,

559
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: like yeah, if only they knew, like it's really expensive.

560
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: They're so dumb, why don't they just go to a bank.

561
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: What I loved about Lisa's book, again it's called The

562
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 2: Unbanking of America, is that she really wanted to know

563
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: why are people we'll go into these services. The math

564
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 2: isn't adding up. Millions of people are doing this and

565
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: yet I know that not everyone is an idiot. They're

566
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 2: not doing because they don't know any better. There has

567
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: to be a reason. So she didn't just do the

568
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: research although she is a researcher and professor. She actually

569
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: got jobs at a payday lender in Oakland, California, and

570
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: at a check cashing business in the Bronx, the South

571
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: Bronx in New York and spent months working down in

572
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: the trenches with these people and talking to people one

573
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: on one to find out why they were using these

574
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 2: services and what's happened to the banking industry in America

575
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 2: and why there are no better alternatives for people out there.

576
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: So here's my chat with miss Lisa Servan on Brown Ambition.

577
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: You can check out her book at Lisaservan dot com.

578
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: She also has a Tumblr page called money Stories dot

579
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: tumblr dot com where she collects stories from people out

580
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: there who are sharing their experiences in the banking industry.

581
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: So you have a story, go to Moneystories dot tumblr

582
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: dot com or lisaservon dot com and send her a note.

583
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: Without further ado, here's my interview with Lisa. Lisa, thank

584
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on Brown Ambition.

585
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me it's great to be here.

586
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: So I'm really really excited about your book because I

587
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: feel like in the book, again is called the on

588
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: Banking of America, How the middle Class, How the New

589
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: middle Class Survives, And one of the most compelling parts

590
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: of the book aside from the fact that you actually

591
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 2: wanted to see how people out in the world, real

592
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: people are using these alternative banking services like payday lenders

593
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: and check cashing companies. But you didn't just want to

594
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: do the research like a lot of people do. I mean,

595
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: you went out there and actually worked in the businesses

596
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 2: and were right face to face with these customers. And

597
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: beyond that, what I loved about the book is that

598
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: I feel like you had some respect for people, and

599
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: you know, the people who were using these services, and

600
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: you genuinely wanted to know, you know, what is it

601
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: that's driving you to use these services even though they're

602
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: like super expensive. So I guess my first question is

603
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: what surprised you when you got face to face with

604
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: people and asked them, you know, you know what is

605
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: driving you to use these these pricey services like petie

606
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 2: lenders and check cashing.

607
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 5: Right, that's a great question, you know, I wasn't surprised.

608
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 5: I knew there had to be a better answer than

609
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 5: simply these people are ignorant or if they only knew

610
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: what I know, you know, kind of middle class white lady,

611
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 5: they would do what I do. And which is why

612
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 5: I went to the field, because I felt like I

613
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 5: couldn't get that the answer to that question by just

614
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 5: you know, reading reports or looking at statistics. So I

615
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 5: wasn't surprised that people had a good answer, but I

616
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 5: was surprised what their reasons were.

617
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 4: And the reasons were, I would say the first.

618
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 5: One surprised me in particular that so many people told

619
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 5: me that the check cashers they used, in particular were

620
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 5: cheaper than banks, because I think when you read about

621
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 5: this stuff and.

622
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 4: This issue and people who.

623
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 5: Call the predatory and that they're part of the poverty industry,

624
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 5: et cetera, the first thing they say is they're expensive.

625
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 5: Why would so many people be using them? And I

626
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 5: can say more about that. But the other two reasons,

627
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 5: which were also surprising were that these businesses were much

628
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 5: more transparent than banks. It was much easier for people

629
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 5: to figure out how much they were going.

630
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 4: To be charged and when they were going to be.

631
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 5: Charged, and they often felt like they were being tricked

632
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 5: at banks. And the third thing was that they felt

633
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 5: like they got much better service at the Czech hashers

634
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 5: and at the pay day landers than they did from

635
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 5: their banks. And so I was really surprised that those

636
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 5: were the reasons. You know, I knew it had to

637
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 5: be something that made a lot of sense, but I

638
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 5: didn't know what it would be.

639
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you say that the service element, I saw

640
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: that every day. I moved to Inwood, Manhattan with my

641
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: fiance who his family's Dominican. I lived there for about

642
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 2: eight months earlier this year, and we lived right across

643
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: the street from this giant like cashing palace I called

644
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: it sometimes. It had two entrances, and it looked really

645
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: super nice and it was like lit on Friday there.

646
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 2: Everyone came to the check cashing place, and it's sort of, yeah,

647
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: it was part of the fabric of the community. And

648
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: do you feel like the what's behind that is just

649
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: the fact that banks have gotten so much less prevalent

650
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: in people's everyday lives, especially a sensory session. It seems like,

651
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: you know, people you see banks closing up their brick

652
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: and mortar locations, so you know, is it a symptom

653
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: of just the fact that big banks have sort of

654
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: been moving out of these communities, or that they were

655
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: never there in the first place.

656
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 5: Think, I think it's part of it that that banks

657
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 5: are moving out, and you know, that's related to the

658
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 5: change in banks business models as well. Right, So many

659
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 5: of us, myself included, actually like being able to.

660
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 4: Bank online at night or on the weekend.

661
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 5: Or whatever and not have to go and stand in

662
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 5: a line. So I think we've all kind of voted

663
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 5: with our consumer behavior in that way. But it also

664
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: banks are also creating an incentive for us to do that.

665
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: You know, they recognize that a one transaction at a

666
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 5: teller costs a dollar and a transaction online cost a

667
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 5: couple of pennies, so they save a lot of money.

668
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 5: And you know, I've been in bank teller lines where

669
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 5: someone has come over and said, you know, can I

670
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 5: show you how to use the ATM to do that,

671
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: you know, clearly wanting me to develop a different kind

672
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 5: of habit, right than going to the teller line. So

673
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 5: I think that's part of it. Part of it is

674
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 5: also the different business models. So you know, the things

675
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 5: that you do at a check casher you can't do

676
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 5: in a bank or you can't do online. Right, If

677
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 5: you have a physical check and you want to cash it, well,

678
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 5: you could deposit it in your bank and now you

679
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 5: could take a picture of it. But what stops a

680
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 5: lot of people and causes them to go to the

681
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 5: check hasher instead is that it'll take days for.

682
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 4: That check to clear.

683
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 5: And if you know, if I go to the check casher,

684
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 5: I get my money right away. But other kinds of

685
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 5: things like sending money to relatives overseas, people can't do online.

686
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 5: So that's kind of part of it too. The guy

687
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 5: who was who was the president of the check cashing

688
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 5: firm where I worked in the South Bronx, he would

689
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 5: say banks want one customer with a million dollars and

690
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: check cashers want a million customers with one dollar because

691
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 5: check ushers actually make their money from people coming in

692
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 5: over and over again and doing transactions, whereas banks really

693
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 5: would rather you didn't come in at all. And I

694
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 5: think part of when you talk about the relationship, we

695
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: have in the process lost that relationship, and for many

696
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 5: people that's valuable, particularly if they're kind of living close

697
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: to the edge and they don't have a large monthly balance,

698
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 5: they sometimes actually need help from a banker, and it's

699
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 5: much harder to get that now.

700
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and it's just so expensive like that.

701
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: Of course you would feel you'd be so afraid of

702
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: getting that thirty five dollars overdraft fee that you know,

703
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: one or two dollars fee every time you kash should

704
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: check probably seems like nothing compared to that. It almost

705
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: feels like the banks are saying, you know, we don't

706
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: want you anyway, so if you can't handle these fees,

707
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: well then there's you know, nothing for you here.

708
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like if you don't

709
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 5: have a large balance, you know that qualifies you for

710
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 5: this whatever it is, City Bank Gold or other preferential treatment.

711
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 5: You know, we're going to just make money off of

712
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 5: you from fees. And it's really about in the eighties

713
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 5: that banks started really switching how they made their money

714
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 5: off of consumers.

715
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: Where it used to be interest income.

716
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: And you know, you'd get three percent, you'd get three

717
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 5: percent interest on your savings account, and you'd pay six

718
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 5: percent for a loan, but interest rates were volatile. The

719
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 5: savings and loan crisis kind of showed how that could work.

720
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 5: And not be good for banks. And then they discovered

721
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 5: that they could make a ton of money off of fees,

722
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 5: over draft fees being the biggest culprit banks made. I

723
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 5: believe it's thirty two billion dollars in twenty fourteen from

724
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 5: overdraft fees. So that's a lot of money.

725
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: One fee alone. Yes, so let's keep ants on for

726
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: them and then hurting exactly right, millions of people out

727
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: there and not can people understand this either? You know,

728
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: my day job Magnify, we get a lot of emails

729
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: from people who can't even join a bank because they're

730
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: you know, there's a system called checks where your record,

731
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: your bank and checking behavior is tracked, and then if

732
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: you have too many overdraft fees, it's like you're blacklisted.

733
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: That's right, Which is that's.

734
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: Right either way?

735
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are a couple of million people in the

736
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: United States that cannot get a bank account at all.

737
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 5: So that's a really important point that there are lots

738
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: of people who can't get a bank account because they've

739
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 5: had maybe too many instances of overdraft. You know, these

740
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 5: systems are all prone to failure too, so there are

741
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 5: plenty of people who've gotten booted out of their bank

742
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 5: for a very small problem or because of a clerical.

743
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 4: Mistake, and they cannot get back in even.

744
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 5: You know, in the banks to your point use this

745
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 5: check system and they share the information. So if I

746
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 5: have a problem at one bank, another bank is likely

747
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 5: to use the same software and they won't let me

748
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 5: start get an account there either.

749
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: So you know, for some.

750
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: People they're pushed out, they haven't opted out.

751
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I can sort of see how then you

752
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: would run to the check cashing place and sort of

753
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: feel a place of companionship or at least like comfort level.

754
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: They're in your neighborhood. They'll probably look like you and

755
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: speak like you, and no people like you, and it

756
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: probably feels a lot more comfortable. Did your opinion of these,

757
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, check cashing places and patia lenders? Did it change?

758
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: Because I know I'm definitely have been in that like

759
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: very black and white world of oh they're all terrible

760
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: and they're just completely predatory. How did your opinion of

761
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: them change throughout the course of your research and writing

762
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: the book?

763
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: You know, it definitely changed.

764
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 5: I wasn't really studying consumer financial services when I started

765
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 5: doing this, but the way that the story about how

766
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 5: I started doing it.

767
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 4: Doing the research.

768
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 5: The way I did was that I had a check

769
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 5: casher come to a class I was teaching and talk

770
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 5: about what he did. And you know, the only literature

771
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 5: that I could find find to assign to my students.

772
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 5: I mean, I, like you, I assumed that these guys

773
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 5: were up to no good. You know, they were charging

774
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 5: people too much, they were making money off the backs

775
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: of the poor in ways that weren't exactly ethical, and

776
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 5: that was pretty much, you know, the good research I

777
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 5: could find was saying the same thing.

778
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 4: And then when Joe Coleman, my.

779
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 5: My boss, ultimately my boss at the check cashing store,

780
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 5: came he really had a very compelling argument about why

781
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 5: he thought his businesses were.

782
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: Helping people in low income communities.

783
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 5: And you know, I didn't kind of buy the story

784
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 5: hook line and zincer, but I it made a lot

785
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 5: of sense, you know, which led me to go and

786
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 5: work in the stores. And I, if anything, so I

787
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 5: tried to go in kind of with an open mind,

788
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 5: but if anything, I was in that camp of like,

789
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,479
Speaker 5: there's something wrong here.

790
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 4: You know, this costs way too much money. And I

791
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: realized that.

792
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 5: People were often making rational, logical decisions by choosing to

793
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 5: manage their money with check cashers and sometimes pay day lenders.

794
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: Did you feel like there is you know, and there

795
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: maybe are some less terrible pay day lenders out there.

796
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: I know in a lot of states, quite a few

797
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: maybe over when was it nineteen now or twenty that

798
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: states that actually cap? Because what really kills people with

799
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: payday loans? We kind of switching gears to talk about them. Yeah,

800
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: what really kills people is the interest rate, right, I

801
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: mean it's you, and it's never like someone it's usually

802
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: people don't just borrow that one time. They usually have

803
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: to do a roll over loan, and then you get

804
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: charged interest on that and then the fees and over

805
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: and over again, and all that interest ends up being

806
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: like hundreds of percentage points. And in some states that's different.

807
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: I think in New York the interest rate cap has

808
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: been set by officials so low that you can't even

809
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 2: really operate here and make money as a payday lender anymore.

810
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: But do you feel like enough is being done to

811
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: rein in the guys who really are bad actors out there?

812
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 4: Well? I think so.

813
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 5: The first point you make, I think, or the last

814
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 5: point you made, was that there are good actors and

815
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 5: bad actors, and I think that's true in almost any industry.

816
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 5: And pay day lending is illegal. I can't remember right

817
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 5: now if it's twelve or thirteen states. New York is

818
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 5: one of them. So there you can't. Well, technically you

819
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 5: can't get a payday loan in New York State. However,

820
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 5: it's pretty easy to get an online loan by an

821
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 5: out of state.

822
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: Rights are nuts.

823
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there are hundreds of thousands of loans that

824
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 5: get made in New York State each year online because

825
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 5: it's very difficult to stop that business. Having said that, yes,

826
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 5: you're absolutely right that the cost is expensive. Right, So

827
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 5: when I said that people chose check hashers because they're

828
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 5: cheaper than banks pay day lenders, what happens is they're expensive,

829
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 5: but people who need the money typically feel like they

830
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 5: don't have another option. Maybe they're maxed down on their

831
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 5: credit card, or they don't have a credit card, they

832
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 5: don't have anyone in their friend or family network that

833
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 5: they could borrow from, or they don't feel right about

834
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 5: doing that. A lot of people told us about you know,

835
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 5: if I borrow money from my mother for my college duition,

836
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 5: she'll never let me hear the end of it. You know,

837
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 5: I can't even go to Starbucks and get a cup

838
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 5: of coffee because I might run into her and she'll

839
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 5: she'll make me feel bad. So but the problem is

840
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 5: that you take out one of these loans, and maybe

841
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 5: not everybody who's listening knows what they are, but they're

842
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 5: generally loans of between fifty and three hundred dollars. They're

843
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 5: called payday loans because they're due on your next payday

844
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 5: in full, and the intro.

845
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 4: The fees are very high.

846
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 5: So the place that I worked, which was in Oakland, California,

847
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 5: charged fifteen dollars per one hundred dollars lent. Now' it's

848
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 5: pretty high. But let's imagine you take out one hundred

849
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 5: dollars and you pay it right back in two weeks.

850
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 5: Maybe it was worth it to you to get that

851
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 5: eighty five dollars, you know, and pay the fifteen. But

852
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: as you noted correctly, a lot of people get to

853
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 5: that point where their next paycheck comes in and they

854
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 5: can't afford it. They still can't, they don't have the

855
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 5: extra money, and so they do what's called a rollover,

856
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 5: which is they get that one hundred dollars again. And

857
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 5: they pay another fifteen dollars, So that's you know, this

858
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 5: is what angers consumer advocates because they feel like the

859
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 5: loan is being sold as a very short term loan,

860
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 5: but then it's not being used in the way that

861
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 5: it's advertised, and that is a problem. The Consumer Finance

862
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 5: Protection Bureau, which is the government agency that was created

863
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 5: as part of Dodd Frank just a few five and

864
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 5: a half years ago, is for the first time issuing

865
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 5: some regulation.

866
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 4: On payday loans.

867
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 5: And most of these what I call alternative financial services providers,

868
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 5: like pay day lenders and check hashers, they are regulated

869
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 5: at the state, not the federal level, which which is

870
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 5: why you have different situations from one state to another.

871
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 5: So for the first time, a federal agency will regulate

872
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 5: these agencies, and one of the things that's going to

873
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 5: do is mandate that the lender verifies the borrowers' ability

874
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 5: to pay. That's the easier said. It's a great idea,

875
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 5: it's easier said than done, but.

876
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: Kind of like a credit card company.

877
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 5: Yes, at the exactly exactly, so you know, the idea

878
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: is to kind of keep people from getting in trouble

879
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 5: by taking out too much money, and it'll be One

880
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 5: of the things that will happen. Partly as a result

881
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 5: of that is people will also be making and the

882
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 5: industry has already started doing that. They're issuing more installment

883
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 5: loans as opposed to this traditional payday loan, which is

884
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 5: a lump sum loan.

885
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: You get it all and then you owe it all back.

886
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 5: So that will help consumers because they won't have to

887
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 5: come up with all the money at once. So I

888
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 5: do think that some good things are happening in terms

889
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 5: of regulation. The fact that lenders will have to charge

890
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 5: will have to verify someone's ability to pay means they're

891
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: going to have to take a little time between when

892
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 5: you apply for that loan and when they give you

893
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 5: the money, even if it's a couple of hours, and

894
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 5: that will allow other business who work charging less to

895
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 5: compete with them and hopefully lower the price.

896
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, I've had family members who have taken out

897
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: title loans and payday loans and have been afraid to

898
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: admit it, but they have, you know, later on, and

899
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: when I ask them why, they're like, well, I just

900
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: needed to write then, and I was I was, you know,

901
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: thank god I had that, because I don't have an

902
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: emergency fund and you know, with regulations like I'm all

903
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: about the CFPB. I love them, I love the work

904
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: they're doing. I'm worried for their future. I think, like

905
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: a lot of people are. But what's out there for

906
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 2: people who may need those loans and may not have

907
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: emergency funds set aside, and you know, may feel like

908
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: with these regulations that they're actually limiting their options for

909
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: cash flow when they when they run into you a

910
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 2: hard time.

911
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 4: Well, that's a terrific point.

912
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 5: And you know, I think so much of the conversation

913
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 5: around payday lenders has been about the businesses, and if anything,

914
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 5: it's been a sort of a paternalistic understanding of consumers

915
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 5: saying like they don't know any better, So you can't make.

916
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 4: These loans to them, because they'll get in too much

917
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: trouble and it'll be worse for them, you know.

918
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 5: And I went out not only did I work in

919
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 5: the payday lendering the shop and also in the check

920
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 5: hashing store, but I also interviewed scores of people who

921
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 5: had taken out the loans apart from you know, serving

922
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 5: them across the counter, and so many people told me

923
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 5: that they didn't like the loans necessarily they thought they

924
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 5: were expensive, but they felt like they really needed them.

925
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 4: When they didn't have any other option.

926
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 5: And you know, one of the things I try to

927
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 5: draw attention to in my book is that that is

928
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: the situation for an increasing number of Americans. Fifty percent

929
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 5: of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Fifty percent could

930
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 5: not come up with even two thousand dollars in the

931
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 5: event of an emergency. And that means not just you

932
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 5: don't have two thousand in the bank, but you don't

933
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 5: have anyone that you could borrow it from. And so

934
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 5: I heard lots of stories of people saying, you know,

935
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 5: I either take out this loan and I know it's expensive,

936
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 5: or I lose my job because I can't fix my

937
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 5: car unless I take out the loan and I can't

938
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 5: get to work without my car. Or my kids are sick,

939
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 5: you know, Or my kids are sick and I can't

940
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 5: take them to the doctor, or my kids are hungry

941
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 5: and I need to buy them food. And so, you know,

942
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 5: I'm fortunate enough in my life that I've never had

943
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 5: to face that kind of dire awful choice. But more

944
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 5: and more Americans these days are facing that choice, and

945
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: many people said, I didn't like the loan, but I'm

946
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 5: really glad it was there because otherwise my kids would

947
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 5: have been hungry.

948
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 4: Otherwise I would have lost my job.

949
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 5: And so, you know, at the same time that we're

950
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 5: talking about reforming the financial.

951
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 4: Services industry, we also have to.

952
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 5: Think about the fact that the kind of economic situation,

953
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 5: the situation of financial insecurity, has just expanded exponentially.

954
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 4: It's just much much worse.

955
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 5: It's much harder for people to be on stable footing

956
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 5: in terms of how much money they have to survive.

957
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 4: Now.

958
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: We love tips, we love actionable advice, and I know

959
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 2: you've spoken. Even on your website you have a button

960
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: for people who want to ditch their big bank yeah

961
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: and find someone, which I love. You know, I was

962
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: all about that ditch your bank movement after the recession

963
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: and for the financial crisis. You know, I'm a We're

964
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: a huge fan of online banks, barn Ambition and Magnify Money.

965
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: So do you feel like things are you know there's

966
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: banks online that are that are offering lo fi accounts now,

967
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 2: and can you talk a bit about alternatives that are

968
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: out there for people who may you know, find themselves

969
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: in a tight spot. And may not have all the

970
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: information about alternatives.

971
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 5: Sure, well, I think you know the kind of part

972
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 5: of the problem. And this goes back to that second

973
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 5: thing I said in terms of the reasons people are

974
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 5: choosing not to use banks but to use check cashers

975
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 5: instead is the issue of transparency. And so I think

976
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 5: financial services have gotten a lot more complex since I

977
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 5: was a kid, and it's very hard for people to

978
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 5: figure out where should I go. People often feel paralyzed,

979
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 5: you know, I thought this bank was was good, this

980
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 5: big bank, it's got a big name, and I had

981
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 5: a bad experience.

982
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: But where do I go now?

983
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 5: So I think helping people compare products and services side

984
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 5: by side, which you guys do a couple of other

985
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 5: sites do as well, is really important. I think that

986
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 5: there also are banks and credit unions that both serve

987
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 5: people better than some of the large banks. It's not

988
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 5: really just a large, small thing. But the problem is

989
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 5: you have to do your research. But there are hassle

990
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 5: free accounts. Key Bank offers a great hassle free account

991
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 5: if you're in one of the regions they serve sometimes

992
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 5: for people who've been have the check systems problem and

993
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 5: they've been booted out. There are some banks that have

994
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 5: a second chance account where you can get a second

995
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 5: get another account, even if you're on that blacklist. And

996
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 5: you know, people who use credit unions on average pay

997
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 5: lesson fees every year than people.

998
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: Who use banks.

999
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 5: Credit unions aren't nonprofit, they're cooperatives, so I think there

1000
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 5: are good alternatives. But yeah, the reason I put the

1001
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 5: button on my website this is how to leave your bank,

1002
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 5: and I'd love to add you guys to the list

1003
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 5: is because people need an easy one to figure these

1004
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 5: things out, and our situations are different, so there isn't

1005
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 5: really a one size fits all approach.

1006
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: There are also some.

1007
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 5: Really interesting innovations coming down the line from the fintech

1008
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 5: kind of financial technology segment that should make it easier

1009
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 5: and more cheap to bang. But absolutely people need to

1010
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 5: do some comparison shopping and there are people and sites

1011
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 5: out there that can help.

1012
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 4: You do it well.

1013
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: Lisa, thank you so much for coming on Brown Ambition.

1014
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you sharing and congratulations on the book.

1015
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

1016
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: And we're back with questions how do you say questions

1017
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 3: in Spanish?

1018
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: And that's why.

1019
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 3: So we have a question from Let's call her Lovely.

1020
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, Lovely does not sound like a stripper name

1021
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: at all.

1022
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 3: So Lovely ask if question. I've been looking at my

1023
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 3: credit report since the joining the Liverature Challenge credit edition

1024
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: Woo Woo Shadow Dream Catcher, but I'm still confused about

1025
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 3: the closed, sold or charge off accounts on my report.

1026
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: Can you help?

1027
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: Certainly, we can, She said, I would like to know

1028
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: if I should make arrangements to pay them off or

1029
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: just wait until they fall off my credit report.

1030
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: And she told us the dates.

1031
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: So well, let's start by reminding people what is what

1032
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 2: does it mean when your account has been charged off

1033
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: or sold?

1034
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: That means the original company that you owed. So let's

1035
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 3: just say you owed Sears and you bought a washing

1036
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 3: machine from Sears and it was you know, I don't know,

1037
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 3: you were making payments on it, right, and so at

1038
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: some point you lost your job, so you stopped making payments.

1039
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: So after everybody charges off or can they might have

1040
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: a different charge off schedule, but after either thirty sixty

1041
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: or ninety days, Sears says, you know what, Lovely's not

1042
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: going to pay it. Yes, So they go to the

1043
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: federal government and basically say, you know, we're just marking

1044
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: this as a loss basically, and then they will sell it,

1045
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 3: typically to a third party or is the second party

1046
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 3: third party third Yeah, I'm like, wait, third party a

1047
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 3: third party company where this is basically a debt collector

1048
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 3: and now they own the debt.

1049
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: And so that's when something is charged off or sold.

1050
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just them saying. It's just them admitting this

1051
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 2: is never gonna be paid off, so we're writing it off.

1052
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that it's gonna fall off your credit report.

1053
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 2: In fact, it really reflects badly. Once you have a

1054
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 2: sold off account, it sucks. It's gonna drag your credit

1055
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 2: down and it'll stay on there for you know, upboards

1056
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 2: of seven years before it falls off.

1057
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: But the good news is is that if a charge

1058
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 3: off happens and it's over two years old where it

1059
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 3: was actually charged off, then it's not making quite the

1060
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: debt on your credit as things that are newer. So

1061
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 3: our main advice is this, I'm not saying don't pay it,

1062
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: but I want you to focus on things on your

1063
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 3: credit report that have happened in the last two years

1064
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: because that's what's really affecting your score. So if you

1065
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 3: have like let's just say you have eight hundred dollars

1066
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 3: and you have a charge off that happened last April,

1067
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: and you have a charge off that happened four years ago,

1068
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 3: and you have to decide where should I give the money?

1069
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 3: To give the money to the charge off that happened

1070
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 3: last April, because that's where you're going to see the

1071
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 3: effect of improving your credit score.

1072
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one in particular. She goes into a bit

1073
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: of detail. She's basically had three accounts charged off. The

1074
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: earliest or the oldest one was charged off in twenty eleven,

1075
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: then twenty thirteen, then just this past April and twenty sixteen.

1076
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 2: So it seems like focusing on that most recent one

1077
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: that was charged off in April and the older ones,

1078
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, when you get to them, you get to

1079
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: them and as a reminder though, and check what's your

1080
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: state and maybe even contact a consumer attorney to be sure.

1081
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 2: But states have statute the limitations on debt on debt,

1082
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: and that just basically says after a certain number of years,

1083
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: it can be from six to ten sometimes depending on

1084
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: what state you live, on that debt collector or a

1085
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: lender cannot sue you in core for the unpaid debt.

1086
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: So generally, if it's reached past that point, you know,

1087
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: if you feel bad about it and you just got

1088
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: money laying around, you can make good on that debt.

1089
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: You technically still owe it, but they can't. There's no

1090
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: legal recourse for them at that point, which is why

1091
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: it's even more important to focus on the ones that

1092
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: you can still be sued for exactly, that are still

1093
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: fresh on your credit report.

1094
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: So like, for example, New Jersey, New York are statute

1095
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 3: of limitations on revolving debt is six years, okay, so

1096
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: then after so for example, so this twenty eleven one,

1097
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: this would be past the statute.

1098
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: Well if she's.

1099
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: From this area, yeah yeah, yeah.

1100
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: Some states it goes up to twenty so yeah, and

1101
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: some states is three.

1102
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1103
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 2: So there's a there's a good website I go to

1104
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 2: for like some I mean it's kind of like the

1105
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: Wikipedia of legal stuff, so you know, it's not the greatest,

1106
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: but no lo dot Com I think has a list

1107
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: of statutes per state. But great question. We get a

1108
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: lot of questions on charge offs.

1109
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: Yeah that's a good question, and good congratulations on the

1110
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 3: Live with your Challenge Credit Edition.

1111
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: I am in the right place.

1112
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: I love when you dream catchers.

1113
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: Just ride in and if you guys have questions again,

1114
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: you know we're find us Brand Ambition podcast dot com.

1115
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: You can just chat us right there, or you can

1116
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: always just email us at Brand Ambition Podcasts at gmail

1117
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: dot com or tweet us at the BA podcast on Twitter, Yes, Twitter,

1118
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 2: Twata And why are there? Leave us a review?

1119
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 3: Yes, I was gonna say that. While you're there on iTunes,

1120
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 3: believe us the review and that's my show set up.

1121
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: You're welcome, so make sure that you stay connected. You

1122
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: can find us on social media. You can message us,

1123
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 3: you can do everything that you'd like to do at

1124
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: Brown Ambition podcast dot com.

1125
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. And while you're at it, please, like we said,

1126
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: leave us a review if you could.

1127
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 4: Please.

1128
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: We love your support. We're doing very well, but the

1129
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: more reviews we have on iTunes and other streaming channels,

1130
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: the more people are likely to find the show, which

1131
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 2: is super important as we're trying to grow. It's been

1132
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: an amazing twenty seventeen so far, but it could be

1133
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 2: so much.

1134
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: Better, be so much better, so much better.

1135
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 2: Tell you, tell your friends, cousins, Sisters Mama male woman,