1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from how 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hey everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, and we are going 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: to continue answering Daniel by a Facebook's question about hydrogen cars. 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: Are they a good idea? Question? Mark? I think I 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: just paraphrased it, but we we want to continue our discussion. 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: If you listen to our last episode, we talked all 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: about the basic science behind hydrogen and as well as 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: the early exploration of hydrogen by philosophers and proto scientists. 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: Right because although it is the most abundant element in 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: the universe, we don't find it, uh flying free very 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: often and usually bonded up with stuff. So there was 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: a long process of everyone trying to figure out exactly 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: what it does and how to get it free, and yeah, 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: what do you do with it then? Like, can do 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: anything useful? Or does it just set your hair on fire? 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure there were a lot of interesting laboratory incidents. 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: Is that what happened to your hair? Let's not go 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: into my lex luthor like past, because then my my 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: nemesis will learn too many of my weaknesses. So so 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: we left off around the eighteen hundreds, eighteen twenties specifically, 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: and we were coming up on eighteen thirty nine is 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: our next day on our timeline, wherein Sir William Grove 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: invented what was essentially the first fuel cell, although he 25 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 1: didn't call it that. It was called a gas voltaic battery. 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Based on what he knew about electrolysis, which is the 27 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: process where you apply electricity to water and separate it 28 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: into its constituent elements, being hydrogen and oxygen, he hypothesized 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: that you could go the opposite way, that you could 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: combine hydrogen oxygen gases to create an electric current plus water. Yep, 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: that's which is exactly the very basis of fuel cells. 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: And we'll talk a lot more about fuel cells as well. 33 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: And then we get to the eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies, 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: and that's when a certain in a auto O T 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: T O. He's the guy who created the first four 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: stroke combustion cycle. We actually call it the auto cycle. 37 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: Use synthetic gas for fuel. Now, it's believed, it's not 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: fully documented, but believe that this gas was at least hydrogen, 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: probably more than that. Now. He reportedly also experiment with gasoline, 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: but he dismissed it because he felt it was too 41 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: dangerous to work with. This is coming from the guy 42 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: who's using hydrogen. Oh, I get gasoline is scary. Well, 43 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: to be fair, they had not yet invented the carburetor, 44 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: and the carburetor is what makes gasoline really a useful 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: fuel for engines. I'll talk a little bit about that 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: in a second. And it's really the only thing holding 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: back Michael Bay. Yes, exactly. If you listen to our 48 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: last episode, you'll realize that Michael Bay being allowed to 49 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: make cars is a terrible, terrible mistake that we cannot 50 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: allow hat to happen. Also, movies, he shouldn't be allowed 51 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: to do those either, so neither prep. The four stroke 52 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: combustion cycle is what most cars today are based on. 53 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: So if you listen to our last episode, you heard 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: me talk about the vacuum based engine where it creates 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: It creates this expanding gas, and as the gas cools 56 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: and is released, it creates a vacuum which pulls the 57 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: piston that allows you to do work. Yeah, it's it's 58 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: not that practical, but this one was very practical. And 59 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: this one involves pushing rather than pulling, So the for 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: the whole thing. You have a piston that is uh 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: inside a chamber. Right, you have a combustion chamber. The 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: piston can be all the way in the chamber, in 63 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: which case it's closed off, or it could be all 64 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: the way up to the very other end of the 65 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: chamber where it's all open, so you've got an open 66 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: space there. The other end of that piston is attached 67 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: to a crank that can rotate. So when the crank 68 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: is in the upward position, the pistons pushed all the 69 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: way in. When the crank is in the downward position, 70 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: the pistons pulled all the way out, and as it rotates, 71 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: the piston can move in and out. So here's how 72 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: this four stroke combustion cycle works. You have four different phases. 73 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: You have the intake. Now this stage, the piston, which 74 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: is attached to that crank is at the top of 75 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: the cylinder and intake valve opens and this inserts a 76 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: mixture of fuel and air into the cylinder. That crank 77 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: turns and the piston moves down, so you start getting 78 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: this chamber filled with this mixture of air and fuel. Next, 79 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: you have the compression stage. This is where the valve 80 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: shuts off, so it can't it's not bringing in any gas, 81 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: it can't let any gas out. But the crank continues 82 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: to turn, pushing the piston up, and that compresses the 83 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: mixture of fuel and air exactly, so you know you've 84 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: got this very compact gas, this mix of fuel and 85 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: air together. This, by the way, is the same for 86 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: hydrogen based combustion engines as well as gasoline based, same 87 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: same principle. So you've got this compressed mixture of air 88 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: and gas. Then you have the combustion phase. This is 89 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: where you get a spark and that ignites that fuel 90 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: and air mixture, which then rapidly expands essentially explodes. Okay, 91 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: so you've got this explosion which then pushes against the 92 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: piston that drives it downward, turning the crank. Then you 93 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: have an exhaust phase, where an exhaust valve opens up 94 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: and all that exhausted air and fuel mixture gets vented 95 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: out while the piston starts to move back up, and 96 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: then you start all over. So once you get this going, 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: it just keeps moving that crank around, and that's where 98 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: you get the power to do stuff like move your wheels. So, uh, 99 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: you know, engines have various different numbers of cylinders. You've 100 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: probably heard things like V eight. That's that's the configuration 101 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: of cylinders and the number of cylinders there are. Technically, 102 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: the more cylinders you have, the more power you're generating. 103 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: Up to about twelve cylinders. At that point you kind 104 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: of start getting into a wash. You have a diminishing 105 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: the law of diminishing returns, that kind of thing. But 106 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: this is the basis, and this is what made internal 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: combustion engines useful. Before that, you had external combustion engines, 108 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: which you know, first you would think that makes it 109 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: sound like there's gonna be all these explosion is everywhere, 110 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: But no, we're talking things like steam engines stuff like that, 111 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: where you actually had open flame boiling up steam so 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: that you could generate this this same sort of power 113 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: because you know, the steam would push pistons too. We 114 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: talked all about that. It's pretty much that's the way 115 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: of the world, speaking of steam. Our friend Jules Verne, Wow, 116 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four. Yeah, Jules Verne, so the the famed writer, 117 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the one of the earliest in I don't know if 118 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: you call it science fiction of that era, but it's 119 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: certainly the precursor to modern science fiction and what a 120 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: lot of stuff like steampunk is based upon. So Jules 121 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: Verne wrote in The Mysterious Island a prediction. Now, granted, 122 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: this is a prediction within the context of a work 123 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: of fiction. I say that because as a Shakespearean I 124 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: get really irritated people who attribute a quote to Shakespeare 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: when really it's one of Shakespeare's characters. But anyway, so 126 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: what he said in The Mysterious Island was that one 127 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: day water itself would be whyly used as fuel by 128 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: breaking it down into hydrogen and oxygen. So it was 129 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: a very you know, futuristic kind of of of vision 130 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: he had, but also a realistic one. It wasn't one 131 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: outside the realm of possibility. Oh yeah, sure, and it was. 132 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: It was almost thirty years after Sir William Grove had 133 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: had made those those hypotheses and improved them about the 134 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: opposition of electrolysis. Yeah. Yeah, So it was an interesting 135 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: science thing that he picked up on, and it's now 136 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: seeping into the public consciousness because now you've got it 137 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: popularized by fiction as well as in the scientific literature. Uh. 138 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: In the eighteen seventies, and eighteen eighties, you had several 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: engineers working independently and they all came up with this 140 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: idea for the carburetor. The reason why I have it 141 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: worded this way is because if you ask people who 142 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: invented the carburetor, you get into a lot of flame wars, 143 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: not literally, the figurative kind of flame war. Well that's good, 144 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad. I would hope they don't battle it 145 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: out with flamethrowers or something. I actually kind of hope 146 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: that just make me a bad person. I'm not going 147 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: to comment one we're or the other for fear of 148 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: you turning a flamethrower on me. So yeah, this, uh, 149 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: this is where you know, depending upon whom you ask, 150 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: you get a lot of different answers about who actually 151 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,559 Speaker 1: invented the carburetor. But the carburetor's purpose is to mix 152 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: together gasoline with air to run an engine safely and efficiently. Now, 153 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: this invention made gasoline powered UH internal combustion engines possible, 154 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: It made it made them practical. So because of this 155 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: attention starts to shift away from hydrogen and towards gasoline. 156 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: Because gasoline was easier to come by, UH, you could uh, 157 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: use it as a fuel now with this way instead 158 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: of trying to just use pure gasoline. So, uh, that's 159 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: kind of why the hydrogen based car, I would say, 160 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: I would argue, this is the big reason why the 161 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: hydrogen based car didn't become the car like this, It 162 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: didn't become the way we used vehicles and why gasoline 163 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: ended up taking over. So eight nine we have Ludwig 164 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: Mond and Car Longer who actually coined the term fuel cell, 165 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: and their version used cold gas and air as the fuel. 166 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: So we've talked to a couple of times mentioned fuel 167 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: cells like twice already in this podcast. Yeah, so let's 168 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how they work. Yeah, So 169 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: basic idea is that you've got two compartments, two chambers 170 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: and into one. This is this is for a hydrogen 171 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: based fuel cell, which is what most of the fuel 172 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: cells we talk about are. You put in one chamber 173 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: hydrogen pure hydrogen. You put in the other chamber pure 174 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: oxygen between the two. Yeah, yes, ideally you could meddle 175 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: with this, but then the byproducts you get afterward are 176 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: more than what a pure hydrogen based fuel cell would do. 177 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: So then you put between the two a semi permeable 178 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: membrane that's coated with a catalyst, and a catalyst is 179 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: essentially something that makes other stuff happen or makes it 180 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: happen more easily. Now the hydrogen uh cannot pass through 181 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: the semiperbiable membrane unaltered. The only way it's going to 182 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: be allowed to get into the party with all of 183 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: its oxygen buddies is to shed a pesky electron. And 184 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: if you remember from our last podcast, what's the hydrogen atom. 185 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: It's a proton and electron, So that's it. So you 186 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 1: want to get hydrogen ions, they have to ditch their 187 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: electron buddies and then they get on across the semi 188 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: permeable membrane. They're fine, they can go join their oxygen buddies. 189 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: All those electrons start to build up. They don't like 190 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: each other, okay, they're all negatively charged, their negative nancy's. 191 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: They don't want to be there. They want to get 192 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: out of that and head over to the other side 193 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: of the party, where at least there's some tolerable have 194 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: elements and ions hanging out and not all these just 195 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: electron jerks. So if you create a pathway from the 196 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: hydrogen side to the oxygen side. Then they're going to 197 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: take it because now they've got a way to get 198 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: away from all these other jerks. And if you force 199 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: them to do a little bit of work along the way, yeah, 200 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: then they're like, you know, I don't like doing this work, 201 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: but I'm totally gonna do it if it means I 202 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: want to get into that party. Uh So this sounds 203 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: like and you know what happens when you put a 204 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: battery in a circuit. That's essentially what we're talking about here. 205 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: We're talking about creating a circuit, a pathway for electrons 206 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: to follow to go from an area of negative concentration 207 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: to an area where there are positive holes that's what 208 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: we usually call them, for the electrons to fill. So 209 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: we create this this pathway, the electrons from the hydrogen 210 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: side will go through it, do work, enter in on 211 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the oxygen side where the hydrogen ions already are start 212 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: to recombine with these things, which then forms water. So 213 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: the output you get from your typical hydrogen oxygen fuel cell, 214 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: assuming you're using pure hydrogen and pure oxygen, is electricity, 215 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: water and heat. That's it. Fantastic technology. There are some 216 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: there's some drawbacks. One of the big ones is that 217 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: the materials tend to be really expensive. The catalysts tend 218 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: to be things like platinum, which, don't know, if you've 219 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: priced it recently, it's yeah, yeah, it's a little on 220 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: the deer side. Now we're talking about nanoparticles of platinum, 221 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: so a little goes a long way. But still it's 222 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: really expensive, and it's expensive to separate hydrogen out from 223 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: anything that it is connected to. Right, you could say, well, 224 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: why don't you just separate out from water while you're 225 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: making water too, You're actually you'd be spending more energy 226 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: trying to get the hydrogen out that way. Now, if 227 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: you were able to harness some other form of electricity 228 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: to do the work for you, Like let's say you 229 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: had a solar panel farm and that solar panel farm 230 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: was generating electricity solely for the purpose to separate out 231 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: hydrogen from oxygen and water, and then you harvested the 232 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: hydrogen and use that in your fuel cells. That's a 233 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: possible solution. It would be, you know, a complicated infrastructure, 234 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: but it's workable, and in fact, that's one of the 235 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: things Toyota is looking at. They're also looking at harnessing 236 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: wind power to do the same sort of thing. So 237 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: finding a renewable energy source so that you can produce 238 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: this hydrogen, because otherwise you're just spending more than what 239 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: you're making. And then again we're at that losing proposition. 240 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: It is. It is one of the one of the 241 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: several problems with fuel else But but we'll get a 242 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: little bit more into that later on. Yeah, So now 243 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: we've got all of that, all the fuel cell stuff 244 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: out of the way, We've got the combustion engine now 245 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: the way. We got a lot of more stuff to 246 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: get out of the way. But before we get that 247 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: out of the way, there's something else we need to do. Lauren, 248 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: and let's take a quick moment to thank our sponsor. 249 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: All Right, we're back. Uh what year is it now? 250 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: It is? Okay, we're gonna talk about as scott Now 251 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: a Scottish chemist named James Doer who used regenerative cooling 252 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: and a vacuum flask to liquefy hydrogen at the Royal 253 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: Institution of Great Britain in London. Now that next year 254 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: he even managed to go a step further and reduce 255 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: the temperature enough so that he could solidify hydrogen. Now 256 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: you might wonder how cold are we talking about here? 257 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: That happens at a temperature of negative three eighty two 258 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit or negative two hundred and thirty nine point 259 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: nine degrees celsius. And I think even our friends to 260 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: the Great White North could agree that that's pretty chilly. 261 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: I was out at like a like fahrenheits yeah, I'm like, yeah, 262 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, I gotta cover my tomatoes when it gets 263 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: down to sixty. So we're kind of joking. But but 264 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: so more about this vacuum flask. This thing is the 265 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: coolest thing. I mean, I don't didn't mean to make 266 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: a pun, but it's I never believe you when you 267 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: say that. I really, as I was saying it, I 268 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: was judging myself. So if that makes you feel any better. 269 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: It's a double walled flask, so you think of it 270 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: as two flasks, one slightly smaller one set inside the 271 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: slightly larger one, and that space between the larger one 272 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: the smaller one is completely evacuated of all materials. So 273 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a vacuum, right, You've got a vacuum between 274 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: those two sides. Now, what this does is it allows 275 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: you to insulate whatever material is on the inside that 276 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: flask from the outside environment. It does not conduct heat 277 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: very well at all. Therefore, you can conduct experiments at 278 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: particular temperatures. Yeah, you can have low temperature experiment. It's 279 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: where you just keep reducing the temperature and you don't 280 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: have to worry about the heat from the outside environment 281 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: because then then you would never get anything cold enough 282 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: to be able to do this stuff like liquefying hydrogen. 283 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to get it really cold, and 284 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: any sort of environmental heat is going to immediately move 285 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: from an area of high concentration to an area of 286 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: low concentration. That's kind of sort of what thermodynamics do, 287 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: you know. So the other thing is that it also 288 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: is really good at keeping hot stuff hot, so you know, 289 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: like a like a thermis. You know, it's it's because 290 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: again it's not allowing the heat from the inside of 291 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: the flask to leak out into the outside environment. Gradually 292 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: it will still cool down or the stuff inside will 293 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: gradually still get warm. Because it's not a perfect system. 294 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: At the neck of this flask, that's where the weak 295 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: point is because at some point those two the inner 296 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: and outer flask have to join together. You can't. You 297 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: can't just magically suspended. So there are some weak points 298 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: in this. It's not a perfect system, but it does 299 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: work really, really well. Now let's go to one of 300 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the podcast, because this is where 301 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: we get to talk about some incredible music. Because in 302 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: nine that's when Count Ferdinand Vaughan led Zeppelin launched the 303 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: first hydrogen filled rigid airship called the Ferdinand. Just just 304 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: just von Zeppelin. It wasn't vun lead Zeppelin that my 305 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: musical past has betrayed me once again. Well no, no, 306 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: of course we don't call them the Ferdinand's. We call 307 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: them Zeppelin's. But they were not made out of lead. 308 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: I guess maybe some of the material might have been 309 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: led low lead Zeppelin, maybe spandex or okay, that's fair, yeah, alright, 310 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: so but anyway, this, this was the hydrogen filled rigid airship. 311 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: These are those dirigibles that you've seen in the past 312 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: and were majestic vehicles. But we'll get into why we 313 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: don't really see those anymore in just a couple of years. Certainly, 314 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: although I believe that hydrogen was being used, I think 315 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: he was German, and I think Germany was using hydrogen 316 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: at the time, because the United States was holding a 317 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: great amount of the helium in the world at the time, 318 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: and hydrogen was kind of considered the next best thing, 319 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: right because you know, both hydrogen and helium have this 320 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: lifting property being being lighter than air. Sure, So so 321 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: these zeppelins might have been using something slightly less combustible 322 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: like helium, if they had had the opportunity to helium, 323 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: by the way, significantly less combustible as in not but 324 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: but yes hydrogen. Yeah, I mean, you use whatever you 325 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: have available, and that's exactly what they did. Five we 326 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: have Henry Garrett, who is was rather an American inventor 327 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: who created an automobile that quote unquote ran on water. 328 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: So this is where a lot not all of them obviously, 329 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: but a lot of conspiracy theories about uh, big car 330 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: companies or big oil companies pushing down all these inventions 331 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: that ran quote unquote ran on water. A lot of 332 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: them come from this kind of thing. There are some 333 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: there's some truth to vehicles that used water as a 334 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: component for fuel, but they all had their own big drawbacks. 335 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: So Garrett's was one that used electrolysis, like we had said, 336 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: so it's using electricity to separate water out into hydrogen 337 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: and oxygen um. And then the car was really using 338 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: hydrogen as a fuel, which is not the most efficient ride. 339 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: You're already having to spend so much energy just to 340 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: create the fuel that then continues to move the car, 341 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: and he had to refill it a lot, so not 342 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: necessarily the best approach. Now this is before we really 343 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: had useful ways of storing lots of pressurized hydrogen which 344 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: would allow us to have kind of a consistent fueling source. Sure, 345 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: but I mean, I can I can see where the 346 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: conspiracy or or um fringe theorists as I hear they 347 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: preferred to be called by many angry people on the internet, 348 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: the ones I keep making mad uh, you know, I 349 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: I can see I can see where perhaps um gasoline 350 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: powered car companies would not have at that particular time 351 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: wanted to donate funding to that kind of research, right right, well, 352 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: and you know they're definitely there's a huge investment in 353 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: the gasoline automobile industry, I mean from multiple players, not 354 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: just not just the car. So but yeah, then we 355 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: have a truly terrible disaster in nineteen seven, Right on 356 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: May six of that year, the Hindenburg zeppelin disaster occurred, 357 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: and that has has put for the intervening time between 358 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: then and now, this idea into the public's mind that 359 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: hydrogen is an extremely dangerous substance, right, that that to 360 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: use hydrogen is to court death. Yes, although it should 361 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: be noted that hydrogen was not the instigator of that disaster. Okay, So, 362 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: so the blimp was coded in aluminum powder to reflect sunlight. 363 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: Aluminum powder these days is a critical component of rocket fuel. 364 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: Under that coat, the cotton fabric was waterproofed with a 365 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: flammable acetate. There was a lot of static electricity in 366 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: the air from a storm that day, so when the 367 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: crew dropped the mooring ropes, it electrically grounded the blimp 368 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: and set off sparks that ignited this highly flammable material, 369 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: which then of course came into contact with this hydrogen 370 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 1: that's inside of it, and the whole thing let up. 371 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: Proponents of hydrogen fuel, though, actually is the Hindenburg as 372 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: a as a point to hydrogen safety because the really 373 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: lightweight hydrogen ascended up out of the blimp so fast 374 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: that the flames went upward, not outward or downwards, So 375 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: it saved the lives of everyone who actually remained on board, right, 376 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's it's interesting that something we 377 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: look at as being an example of this stuff is 378 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: going to be too dangerous for us to use actually 379 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: is an example of No, you're you're looking at this 380 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: the wrong way. You're not. You don't have the full picture, 381 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: right right, it's I mean, sure, it's it's dangerous, but 382 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: everything is dangerous, and what's more dangerous is coating your 383 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: blimp and rocket fuel. Yeah, okay, alright, got the note, Lauren, 384 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: I'm not going to use any more rocket fuel on 385 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: my blimp. And that same year as the Hannonbury disaster, 386 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: there was an experimental gaseous hydrogen fueled jet engine test 387 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: and that's the first working jet engine using hydrogen. So 388 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: then we move on to nineteen thirty eight. That's when 389 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: Igor Sikorski, who was a Russian American aviator, proposed using 390 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: liquid hydrogen as a fuel for aviation. So you know, 391 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: we already still had people saying that hydrogen had its place. 392 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: By ninety one, we have the first mass application of 393 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: hydrogen internal combustion engines. That's when a Russian lieutenant whose 394 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: name I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce ordered 395 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: the conversion of several Ford Model G A Z dash 396 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: A A cars, the the Double A, the Model Double 397 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: A UH into hydrogen internal combustion engines converted from gasoline 398 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: to hydrogen as part of the war effort during World 399 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: War to forest Sheila shit, thank oh nice. I was 400 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: not going to try because my Russian is worse than 401 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: my Swiss, which is worse than my French. I haven't 402 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: I haven't looked that up, but but I'm that's that's 403 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: my stab. Well well done, because you're braver than I am. 404 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three, we have Ohio State University testing 405 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: liquid hydrogen as rocket fuel, and in the nineteen fifties 406 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: and sixties we see more work with these hydrogen fuel cells, 407 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: this whole idea that had been proposed decades earlier, and 408 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: mostly we see them in industrial applications like powering forklifts 409 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: or other heavy machinery. The first commercial use of a 410 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: hydrogen fuel cell is in Project Geminy Gemini Gemini. Hey, 411 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that the way they old I know, yeah, 412 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: that was that was in five and that particular fuel 413 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: cell was developed by a General Electric. There's your conspiracy 414 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: theories for you. Night. One, we're skipping way ahead because 415 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: generally speaking, you know, we still had advances in technology 416 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: on both the combustion side and on the fuel cell side. 417 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: But one, we have the Space Shuttle main engine test, 418 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: which used liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen as the propellants. UM. 419 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: In the nineteen nineties, Uh, yeah, in in some cities 420 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: they started rolling out buses that were powered by hydrogen 421 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: fuel cells. Pretty cool stuff. Two thousand three, we have 422 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: another big moment in the United States. Yeah, that was 423 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: when the Hydrogen Fuel Initiative was announced here. Um. It 424 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: was a dedication of one point two billion dollars in 425 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: research grants and other governmental support to projects with the 426 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: lofty but very worthy goal of of making fuel cell 427 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: vehicles practical and cost effective. By I mean like like 428 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: from harvesting hydrogen to the infrastructure that you need to 429 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: get it to cars, to the actual cars. Yeah, this 430 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 1: is this is incredibly ambitious. Not that other companies haven't 431 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: taken up that mantle. But you know, we'll have a 432 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: little bit of a dicussion at the very end about 433 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: why that's so ambitious. I think that's probably the best 434 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: place to have it. But let's see then we have 435 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: moving onto the late two thousands, several car companies began 436 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: developing fuel cell concepts UM, although most never made it 437 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: to anything like the common market. That the only one 438 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: that I've heard about even being semi available is the 439 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: Honda f c X Clarity UM, which for certain select 440 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: Southern California residents is available for a three year, six 441 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: per month lease. It's like a severe waiting list kind 442 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: of kind of situation, which which might change dramatically next 443 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: year because two thousand fifteen is when Toyota plans to 444 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: bring a fuel cell vehicle to market. And there are 445 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: other fuel cell vehicles that are out there, most of 446 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: them are being used in commercial or industrial uses. Again 447 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: not not really talking about, uh, you know, the vehicles 448 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: for the average consumer. But Toyota's plans say that this 449 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: is going to be a really serious effort to make 450 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: fuel cell vehicles a real alternative to gasoline and all 451 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: trip vehicles, uh in a specific market in the US. 452 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: We're talking about California. Yet again, that's really kind of 453 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: the test market that Toyota is looking at, and they're 454 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: looking at building out hydrogen fueling stations. You have to 455 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: I mean that's and that's where this is where we're 456 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: coming up to that discussion where not only is hydrogen 457 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: a a potentially dangerous substance, not only do you have 458 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: to take into consideration the right way to pressurize it 459 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: and store it so that people can use it safely. 460 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: Not only is it difficult to get the hydrogen just 461 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: all on its own, it's also expensive to build out 462 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: an infrastructure that you're going from the ground up. There's 463 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: nothing there really that you can already take advantage of. 464 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: You have to start building in things like building in 465 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: new pumps and fuel stations that are hydrogen ones. There 466 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: are a few of those that are around, you know, 467 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: most of those are for things like municipal use. It's 468 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily meant for again, for the average person. It's 469 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 1: not like, hey, I'm gonna go down and fill up 470 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: this pressurized clast with hydrogen. Yeah yeah, you know. You 471 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: you have to create an entire industry worth of of 472 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: safety regulations and and standardizations. Yeah yeah. If you don't 473 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: have those, then it's not going to work. So this is, uh, 474 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: it's a it's a grandiose plan in many ways, but 475 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: it's one I think that was actually achievable. I got 476 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: a chance to talk to a lot of folks at 477 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: Toyota when I went to C E S and so 478 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: I got a chance to to take a look at 479 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: the fuel cell vehicle. Really, what I looked at was 480 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: their test vehicle that actually had a fuel cell in it. 481 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: And then I got to look at the what is 482 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: the shell essentially the what what it's going to look 483 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: like when it comes to market. But as I understand it, 484 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: it did not actually have the full fuel cell set 485 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: up inside it yet. But it's very interesting approach. It 486 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: is again a subset of electric vehicles. It runs on electricity. 487 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: It's generating electricity which powers the vehicle as an electric motor. 488 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: There's no engine. It's driven by an electric motor. It's 489 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: got a battery on board as well. Um, it's not 490 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: like it's just a combustion vehicle. It's not a combustion 491 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: vehicle at all. It's more like an electric vehicle than 492 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: a combustion vehicle, except for the fact that you have 493 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: to fuel rather than recharge. So so would you say 494 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: over we we asked on Facebook if anyone had any 495 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: questions about this, and Don asked, will all fuel cell 496 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: cars be hybrids. So technically, technically yes, because a fuel 497 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: cell is, like I said, kind of an electric vehicle. 498 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: So if you think of it that way, it is 499 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: a hybrid. It's not going to be a hybrid as 500 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: fuel cell and combustion engine. That doesn't make any sense. 501 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: For one thing, you would have so much of your 502 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: vehicle taken up by engines and motors and and fuel 503 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: cells and batteries that there wouldn't be any room left 504 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: for anybody else. So that's not the kind of hybrid 505 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: you're going to see. But technically, if you think about it, 506 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: a fuel cell vehicles already a hybrid vehicle. And you know, 507 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: Daniel on Facebook had asked, is this really a viable 508 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: alternative to say electric vehicles? And then that's a highly 509 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: contested area of debate right now. But I would say 510 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The big 511 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: advantage of an electric vehicle is that you can if 512 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: you're just driving around, you know, going around town and 513 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: then coming back home at the end of every day, 514 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: you can recharge that at home and you aren't having 515 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: to worry about refueling ever. Right with a hydrogen fuel 516 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: cell car, it's like a gasoline car, eventually you're going 517 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: to have to refuel. On the flip side of that, 518 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: if you're going on long trips, like you're not just 519 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: driving around town, but you want to take like a 520 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: cross country road trip all on National Lampoon's family vacation, 521 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: because that really encouraged everyone to get on a road trip. 522 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: I medium, wally World's only open for so long, Lauren, 523 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: So if you want to go to wally World and 524 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: you have to drive through all the states to do it, 525 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,719 Speaker 1: I do want to go to wally World. Who doesn't. 526 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: So the problem is that with an electric vehicle, whenever 527 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: you need to recharge and you're not at a convenient 528 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: stopping point, like you're not ready to stop for the day, 529 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: that's gonna take you like a half hour or longer, 530 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: depending upon how you're doing this, unless you're buying into 531 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: Tesla's model where you can occasionally have your better charge 532 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: or swap. Even with a super charger. Still it's like 533 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: minutes or a half charge. So I know that doesn't 534 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: sound like a long time, but think about how irritated 535 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: you get every time you have to go and fill 536 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: up your tank at a gas station, Like if that 537 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: takes me longer than than five or six minutes, I 538 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: think that the world is ending. Yeah, Honestly, if I 539 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: even just hit a slow pump, I'm just like, oh no, 540 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: why did I pick this one? I could have gone 541 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: anywhere else, and now the rest of my night is ruined. 542 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, hydrogen fuel fueling stations will fuel at essentially 543 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: the same speed as a gasoline fueling station. So when 544 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: it comes to refueling, hydrogen cars have have the advantage 545 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: right now. Now, if we ever get into a crazy 546 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: super fast method of charging batteries which people are working on, 547 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: and it ends up being equivalent or even faster than 548 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: fueling at a gas station, then that advantage disappears. The 549 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: only other advantage you can say is that fuel cell vehicles, 550 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: like electric vehicles, don't put out dangerous emissions, right, And 551 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: that relates to the other question that we got in 552 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: on Facebook from Ricardo he he was he was asking, 553 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: is hydrogen really environmentally friendly because it also produces carbon dioxide. 554 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: If you're using again pure hydrogen and pure oxygen, you're 555 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: not creating carbon dioxide. Uh, you are just creating water 556 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: and electricity and heat. But if you're using something besides 557 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: pure hydrogen or pure oxygen. You could be creating pollutants, 558 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: like we had said at the beginning of the last podcast, 559 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: part one. So it all depends on the implementation. Uh. 560 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: And the same is true with with fuel cells or 561 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: combustion engines. Either way, whether it's one or the other, 562 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: that's what your output is going to be based upon 563 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: the input. Sure, and it also depends on how you're creating, 564 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: well not creating, how you're getting that hydrogen to begin with, 565 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: because some methods of of that hydrogen harvesting are cleaner 566 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: than others. Right, if you're using fossil fuels, for example, 567 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: to power your hydrogen operation, then the question is why 568 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: don't you just use the fossil fuels to car the car? Right, 569 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: Because if you're using it, why are you why are 570 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: you have an extra step in there? The extra step? 571 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: You know, if it's a if it's a byproduct like 572 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: methane gas out of natural gas deposits, then then that 573 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: can be a relatively clean way to be using that material. Yeah, 574 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like the co location idea of 575 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: putting uh something that can use heat as a way 576 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, like like like the heat from 577 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: say a power generator where you're using your generating lots 578 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: and lots of steam that turned turbines, and those turbines 579 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: then generate electricity. You might also have a way of 580 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: harnessing that heat to say, heat a building, and then 581 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: you are getting kind of a two for one thing 582 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: out of that. It all depends on the strategy you 583 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: implement to get the hydrogen, to ship the hydrogen, and 584 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,719 Speaker 1: to act consume the hydrogen. So another thing we can 585 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: look at two in the future is the possibility of 586 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: using hydrogen to generate lots of energy through fusion, which 587 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: is the same thing that our friend the Sun does. 588 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: And Okay, that's true. I can't. I can't. I can't 589 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: hang out with the Sun for very long before he 590 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: gets angry at me, or at least my skin gets 591 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: angry at me. But at any rate, Yeah, the the 592 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: Sun generates energy through that that that fusion process of 593 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: hydrogen turning into helium. We might be able to harness 594 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: the same thing here on Earth, and perhaps we'll do 595 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: a full podcast on that in the future. There have 596 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: been lots of different attempts at it, and we've seen 597 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: some promising results fairly recently. That suggests we might be 598 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: able to finally get to a point where we can 599 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: actually generate more energy than it required for us to 600 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: put into it to make it happen in the first place. 601 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. Yeah, and I'm being a little sarcastic, but no, 602 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: that's actually ridiculous. I mean that's that that would be 603 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: beautiful and impressive. If it works out, then you could 604 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: I would hesitate to say solve the world's energy problems, 605 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: because I think it's much more complicated than just how 606 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: much energy we have, but it can make things really interesting. 607 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: So anyway, if you want to hear more really interesting 608 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: things help us out, you let us know. Let us 609 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: know what those are. Yeah, we don't know until you 610 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: ask like this, Yeah, if we If we didn't mention 611 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: at the top of this episode, we mentioned at the 612 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: top of the last one this was a reader question 613 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: from Facebook and we appreciate it very much. Yeah, So, 614 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: if you want to ask us a question on Facebook 615 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: or maybe on Twitter or perhaps even Tumblr, you can 616 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: find us with the handle tech stuff h s W 617 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: at all three. Or perhaps you're a little more you know, 618 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: old fashioned, or you have a lot to say, or 619 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: maybe you don't want everybody else reading the question you 620 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: have you can send it to us via email. Our 621 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: address is tech stuff at Discovery dot com, and Lauren 622 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon for 623 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it 624 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: have suffworks dot com