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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: We are headed vault. Word. What's in the vault today? Well,

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Speaker 1: this time the vault is full of sex spots. Joe. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this is an episode that I recorded with Christian

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Speaker 1: back in UHR. And this one was a really interesting

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Speaker 1: to want to do. This is one that we we've

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Speaker 1: actually run into cases where someone has suggested it and

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Speaker 1: then we get to point back and say, ah, actually,

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Speaker 1: here it is. Here's everything you probably want to know

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Speaker 1: and a few things you don't want to know about

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Speaker 1: the idea of robots that are being created, that are

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Speaker 1: being conceived and maybe created in the future. Uh that

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Speaker 1: are that are created for human sexual reasons. And I

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Speaker 1: mean and it really it runs the gamut from from

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Speaker 1: ideas that are rather exploitive than kind of disturbing to

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Speaker 1: things that actually sound like they will have a you know,

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Speaker 1: positive effect on society, the idea of therapeutic robots. So

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Speaker 1: anyway we we present it to you, let you dive in,

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Speaker 1: and then you can let us know how you feel

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Speaker 1: about these ideas. All right, Well, without any further Ado.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into this vault episode. Welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is

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Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and my name is Christian Seger. So hey,

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Speaker 1: if this is an episode that you are listening to,

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Speaker 1: maybe with your kids, or maybe you're concerned about the

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Speaker 1: company that you're listening to it in, we should just

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Speaker 1: let you know up front. This is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a more graphic episode of Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind. Be uh, based on the title. You

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Speaker 1: probably know that already, but we just wanted to give

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Speaker 1: you a heads up because we know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of families right into us and say, hey, I really

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Speaker 1: like listening to the show. I listened to it on

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Speaker 1: the way to school in the morning with my daughter. Um,

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Speaker 1: this might not be the episode to do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might give this one a skip in that case.

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Speaker 1: Now that being said, we're we're gonna tackle the topic

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Speaker 1: of sex spots in this episode, and we are, as usual,

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Speaker 1: we're going to do our best to to demystify the

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Speaker 1: topic of bit we're gonna explore. Yes, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the in many cases trashier um examples

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Speaker 1: of this show up in our science fiction. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about some definite opposition to the idea of

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Speaker 1: sex spots, but we're also going to explore some territory

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Speaker 1: that I was really fascinated with that where where we

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Speaker 1: see a more positive vision of what a sex spot

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Speaker 1: or sexual interaction between humans and machines might consist, of

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Speaker 1: visions of this that are beneficial, even therapeutic. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the real hook here, and the thing

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know a lot about going into the research,

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Speaker 1: which is that there are a lot of uh of

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Speaker 1: these robots being bill and there's a lot of research

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Speaker 1: going into their construction that's healing basically for human beings

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Speaker 1: in a variety of ways. And we'll get into that now.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into the science, we should just take

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Speaker 1: a few moments to talk about some of the examples

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Speaker 1: that we've seen, and there are many different examples of

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Speaker 1: sex spots in science fiction. I mean, whenever we start

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Speaker 1: thinking about artificial humans, and certainly we've dreamed about artificial

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Speaker 1: humans since ancient times, they factored into our many of

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Speaker 1: our myth cycles. We we inherently deal with our anxiety

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Speaker 1: about technology and our anxiety about human nature in dreaming

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Speaker 1: up these various examples. So a few that come to mind.

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Speaker 1: There's a wonderful novel titled The Wind Up Girl. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And this was by Paulo Baca Galupi. And this is

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Speaker 1: this coming concerned you know, sort of your sort of

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Speaker 1: your typical sex bot scenario. We have a pleasure body

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Speaker 1: of some kind, a feminine robot that is made for

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Speaker 1: male pleasure, that escapes, goes rogue, you know, has a

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Speaker 1: has a struggle for independence. It's a really good book. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but it does explore kind of a classic trope here

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Speaker 1: that is a very common trope in sci fi now

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Speaker 1: now that I think about it, and especially looking at

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Speaker 1: a lot of our examples here with things that are

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Speaker 1: really kind of popular right now, like Humans or Westworld, right,

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Speaker 1: like the other shows that are all exploring that same idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both great shows. And you can and it's obvious why

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Speaker 1: this is such a powerful trope because you get to

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Speaker 1: explore not only are concerns about technology and the future

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Speaker 1: of technology, but also about about what it means to

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Speaker 1: be to be female in today's world. And and uh

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Speaker 1: and in various feminine issues that you can explore through this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this fantastic vision. Yeah. The other recent one that really

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Speaker 1: gripped a lot of people's attention. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: maybe the best movie that came out that year was

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Speaker 1: XM Gonna Yes. Alex Garland's XM Gonna Wow. Uh definitely

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Speaker 1: Uh talked about the issues surrounding sex, but was more

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Speaker 1: about I guess the like emotional availability of AI. And

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Speaker 1: this is something that like we've actually off air been

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Speaker 1: kind of talking about, like how it relates to this

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Speaker 1: topic is um For instance, that Spike Jones movie Her,

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Speaker 1: which I haven't seen but I don't think, actually features

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Speaker 1: a robot in it, but it's sort of the same idea.

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Speaker 1: It's like, can an artificial intelligence convince you that it's

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Speaker 1: real enough that you have you're an emotionally engaging relationship

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Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, this is, of course, is the whole

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Speaker 1: topic undo itself, Like to what degree we in view

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Speaker 1: a non living thing with life, even if it's not

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Speaker 1: a robot, even if it is a doll or a

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Speaker 1: toy painting. I mean, we have this fabulous ability to

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Speaker 1: anthropomorphize just about anything, to have it lead you put

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Speaker 1: a smiley face on something and it will create we

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Speaker 1: will instantly have this smidgeon at least a smidgeon of

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Speaker 1: investment in that thing as a person. Well, and that

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Speaker 1: goes way back. You've got notes here to the Greek

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Speaker 1: myth of Hefestus, right, or as I usually call him, Vulcan,

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Speaker 1: because I think that's Vulcan's what the Roman version of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have Vulcans, the Roman version and uh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: if you've ever rolled through Birmingham, Alabama, they have a

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Speaker 1: big statue of Vulcan. Wait, is that right? That's true? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: why because it was like a steel working town. Okay, so,

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Speaker 1: uh so Vulcan plays a role in in my personal

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Speaker 1: history as well. But yeah, this in myth, he created

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Speaker 1: a series of life sized golden maids, among various other models.

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Speaker 1: So he was kind of a mad scientist of Greek

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Speaker 1: and Roman myth. But you can see they're like going

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Speaker 1: that far back that we human beings were thinking about

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Speaker 1: in our culture and our storytelling, like how we were

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Speaker 1: going to try to replicate the human experience in machines

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Speaker 1: or in I believe the terminology that was used referring

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Speaker 1: to Vulcan and Hefestus was biotechnique. Yeah, yeah, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and there's a wonderful Ian magazine, aren't on that. I'll

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Speaker 1: try to include a link to that and some of

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Speaker 1: the other articles who were mentioning here in the landing

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Speaker 1: page for this episode of Stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Also, obviously many people out there probably thinking

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Speaker 1: of Darryl Hannah's character Priss from Blade Runner, which is

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Speaker 1: referred to as a basic pleasure model. Although so it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I was reading an Ionine article yesterday that's all about

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Speaker 1: what what we're talking about right now, the fictionalized versions

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Speaker 1: of sex spots. There's a lot of argumentation in the

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Speaker 1: commentary about whether Priss counted because replicants are technically organic individuals.

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Speaker 1: I think she counts. Yeah, yeah, there there's that whole

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Speaker 1: Once you get into the whole android replicant thing, it

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Speaker 1: gets a little, uh, a little hazy. Now, anybody out

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Speaker 1: there is a fan of Rick and Morty, there was

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Speaker 1: an episode titled Raising gas Orpazorp that included a sex

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Speaker 1: spot that I haven't seen that one. Yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: Morty ends up acquiring and has a brief addiction to.

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Speaker 1: So we might come back to that vision of a

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Speaker 1: sex spot here in the future. But that kind of

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Speaker 1: leads us into some of the more exploited visions. I

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Speaker 1: guess you can say, the sort of heavy metal visions

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Speaker 1: of the sex spot. Um, what what was the name

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Speaker 1: of the artist that you you sent me yesterday? There's

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Speaker 1: this guy. So heavy Metal Magazine is what we're referring to,

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Speaker 1: which is, if you're unfamiliar with it, is an American

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Speaker 1: magazine that specializes in comics that are sort of like

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Speaker 1: R rated fantasy sci fi comics. Uh. And the cover

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Speaker 1: art is usually pretty salacious. And Robert found this one

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Speaker 1: artist who has done quite a number of covers for

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Speaker 1: them that specializes in sexualized female robots. Oh yeah, this

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Speaker 1: would be, of course, be Japanese artist Hajjimie Sori Yama. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is this is one of the Remember when

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Speaker 1: I first got online really the first year of college,

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Speaker 1: last year of high school, I ended up introducing myself

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Speaker 1: to a number of fantasy artists that that I was

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Speaker 1: instantly taken with. And uh and I remember encountering this

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Speaker 1: guy's work and it's it's I catch ing, but it's

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Speaker 1: all of like sexy robot pinop dolls, like that's his

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Speaker 1: his thing, and that's certainly a vision of the sex spot,

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Speaker 1: the fimbot that you know, whatever you want to call them,

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Speaker 1: whatever they're calling your particular uh sci fi property that

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Speaker 1: we see time and time again. Um, like a property

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Speaker 1: that I think back to is nineteen eight seven's Cherry

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Speaker 1: two thousand starring Melanie Griffith. I have never seen that,

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Speaker 1: and I you know, I've always kind of heard about

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Speaker 1: it on the fringe of things, but yeah, it really

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Speaker 1: hit my radar doing the research for this episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's definitely one that falls more into the you know,

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Speaker 1: exactly what you'd expect from a nineteen eighties film, so

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Speaker 1: it has a sex about it. I suppose like she

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Speaker 1: can't complain too much about her daughter doing these fifties

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Speaker 1: shades of gray movies. Then if like daughter can just

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Speaker 1: be like, well you were in Cherry two thousand, Yes,

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Speaker 1: but she was not Cherry two thousand, Oh she was.

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Speaker 1: She was just she's like a human bounty hunt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, all right, Um, you know what

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Speaker 1: is not on the list that it just like popped

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Speaker 1: into my head. I can't believe we forgot about this.

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Speaker 1: The Stepford Wives Yeah, the Stepford Wives a big one

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Speaker 1: that and it ties in directly with some of the

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Speaker 1: fears and eggs ideas they were going to discuss here,

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Speaker 1: because it's men making robot women to be their perfect wives. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's Jude Law as Jigglo Joe in the movie AI. Uh,

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Speaker 1: one of the rare examples of a male sex spot

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Speaker 1: in popular culture. On Buffy the Vampire Slayer, they made

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Speaker 1: several sex spots, including one of Buffy for Spike, which

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Speaker 1: really there's some really dicey sexual relationship stuff that goes

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Speaker 1: on in that show towards the end of the later seasons,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of them. Um. And then the comics, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's this comic called Autumn Lends that's coming out right

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Speaker 1: now that I really enjoy. It's by Kurt Busick and

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Dewey and Uh. In the second arc, the characters

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Speaker 1: encounter these statue esque naked robot women who once served

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Speaker 1: this like long forgotten civilization as sex slaves, and when

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Speaker 1: one of the characters tries to force himself upon them,

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Speaker 1: they rebel and it's it's really it's a really interesting

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Speaker 1: take on this whole thing that we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about today, but um, I highly recommended if you're into

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Speaker 1: comics check that out. So obviously, some of these visions

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Speaker 1: of the sex spot are are more fantastic than others,

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Speaker 1: and some are more serious than others in their commentary.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately it's all sort of circling around our our

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Speaker 1: legitimate concerns about ourselves and technology. So what what are

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Speaker 1: we afraid of? What? What indeed are we very right

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Speaker 1: to be concerned about? Uh? You know, we see this

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Speaker 1: continuing trope of the human abuse of robots mirroring our

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Speaker 1: own abuse of each other. If we create robots in

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Speaker 1: our image, then are we destined to exploit them, to

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Speaker 1: abuse them, and even further objectify and to humanize each

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Speaker 1: other based on this model? And I also can't help

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Speaker 1: but feel that female sex spots and fiction especially tend

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Speaker 1: to serve, as you know, as commentaries on product femininity.

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Speaker 1: Uh the the all too frequent portrayal of human females

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Speaker 1: as mere sex objects, devoid of nuanced personality or identity.

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Speaker 1: And we didn't plan it out this way, but actually

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Speaker 1: so coming out this week along with this episode, we're

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Speaker 1: doing an episode on the science of ovulation and how

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Speaker 1: that plays into marketing femininity. Uh and and so it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to do these two episodes side by side

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Speaker 1: and sort of see the parallels. Yeah, there's always this

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Speaker 1: weird synchronicity between the episodes, it seems. So why don't

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Speaker 1: we get into the current state of you know what.

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Speaker 1: Some of you out there are probably like, well, wait, what,

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Speaker 1: Like there's all these pop culture versions that you just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: but where are these sexpots you speak of now? Right? UM,

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Speaker 1: I would just first like to very quickly go over

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Speaker 1: a short history of sex toys in terms of you

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Speaker 1: know where we're at with that. These are tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of years old. You know, most people don't know that.

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Speaker 1: They probably think it's relatively recent invention. The oldest dildough

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Speaker 1: is more than twenty thousand years old. Vibrators began as

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Speaker 1: medical devices that midwives and physicians use to treat illnesses

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Speaker 1: such as hysteria through what they referred to as pelvic

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Speaker 1: massage or manual stimulation. The first one of these was

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Speaker 1: introduced in seventeen thirty four. That's that goes far back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't into the late eighteen hundreds when powered

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Speaker 1: vibrators were available to doctors, and then by they were

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Speaker 1: available directly to consumers. And then you know, nowadays people

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Speaker 1: think about computer driven sex toys. That goes back to

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies. Yes, I mean, certainly, sexuality is

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Speaker 1: always a huge aspect of human behavior, even if we

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Speaker 1: want to push it to the background. So it has

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Speaker 1: a tendency to be at the forefront of any technological

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Speaker 1: advancement or any kind of new enterprise. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just yeah, worth like reminding ourselves, like, hey, this isn't new.

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Speaker 1: This has been around for a long time. What we're

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Speaker 1: discussing here is really just like the latest iteration of

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Speaker 1: this and what does that say about us? Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's not a situation where suddenly sexually minded individuals are

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Speaker 1: at the forefront, uh, you know, pushing and meddling with

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Speaker 1: the technology. They've always been there. Uh So, just to

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Speaker 1: give a brief idea of the future so that we

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Speaker 1: can we can backtrack and discuss the present. There was

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Speaker 1: an interesting Pew Research Center paper that came out in

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen titled Digital Life in AI Robotics in

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Speaker 1: the Future of Jobs. Now. For the most part, this

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Speaker 1: article did not go into the use of sexual robots.

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Speaker 1: But there is one part where this guy by the

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Speaker 1: name of Stow Boyd, whose lead researcher for Giga o

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Speaker 1: M Research futurists. He predicted quote Pizzas will not be

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Speaker 1: delivered by teenagers hoping for a tip. Food will be

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Speaker 1: raised by robotic vehicles, even in small plot urban farms.

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Speaker 1: That will become the norm since so many people will

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Speaker 1: have lost their jobs to bots. Your X rays will

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Speaker 1: be reviewed by a battery of Watson Grade A eyes,

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Speaker 1: and humans will only be pulled in when the machines disagree.

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Speaker 1: Robotics sex partners will be commonplace. Although the source of

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Speaker 1: scorn and division the way that critics today bemoans selfies

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Speaker 1: as an indicator of all that's wrong with the world.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's an interesting take on it. I

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Speaker 1: definitely agree with him that on the scorn and division,

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Speaker 1: and that is going to be a you know, really

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Speaker 1: the big divide that we're going to speak about today

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Speaker 1: in terms of what's going on with this technology. I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't see it as being analogous to selfies,

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Speaker 1: though I think it's a little more extreme than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think time and time again we have to come

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Speaker 1: back to examples of what the what the current technology is.

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Speaker 1: So today we have a number of different sexual devices,

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Speaker 1: sexual toys of your world that are on the market,

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Speaker 1: and many of them are very high selling. That being said,

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Speaker 1: sex toys continue and perhaps will always be, uh that

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Speaker 1: the punchline of many a jail. Yeah right, exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier that it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is the stuff of like late night

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Speaker 1: talk show hosts, like making a throwaway Joe here there.

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Speaker 1: It's something everybody can kind of relate to and laugh

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Speaker 1: at and laugh at themselves about. Right, And then at

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Speaker 1: the same time, many of the people who are laughing

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Speaker 1: and some that are not laughing are still going to

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Speaker 1: perhaps go online and order one of these devices for

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Speaker 1: their personal use. Yeah. So we're a far cry, though,

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Speaker 1: from having a robotic humanoid body that that moves like

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Speaker 1: we do, but roboticists continue to make strides in this area.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's seeing videos of the various of Boston Dynamics robots,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're often kind of fearsome. They look

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Speaker 1: like mechanical jumping horses. I gets. So we should probably

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Speaker 1: clarify what this is. Maybe not everybody out there is

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Speaker 1: familiar with this. So this is what the last year

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Speaker 1: and a half Boston Dynamics is like continually releasing these

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Speaker 1: kind of like press release videos of these robots that

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Speaker 1: they're working on that basically look like robot pack mules. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of the cell, right that there robotic

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Speaker 1: pack mules that can that would have a military application,

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Speaker 1: that can go over diverse terraine. So we can look

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Speaker 1: to those and obviously these are not sexy, these are

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Speaker 1: not these are not devices where you say, hey, that's

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Speaker 1: the future of sexual robotics right there, but they do

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Speaker 1: demonstrate the strides that we're making and creating robots that

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Speaker 1: can move in reality, that can that can that can

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Speaker 1: actually interact with the world physically and any of There

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Speaker 1: are other areas where the technology continues to impress, So

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Speaker 1: we know robot assisted surgery VR, haptic feedback, and there

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Speaker 1: is this, uh, this field of that's sometimes referred to

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Speaker 1: as tele del donis uh where they're utilizing all this

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Speaker 1: technology for more advanced sexual devices and sex toys. This

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Speaker 1: is basically across long distances right right. Like one example

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Speaker 1: of this is uh uh Frixtion, I believe is the

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Speaker 1: name of how you pronounced the product, and they use

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Speaker 1: haptic sensors and robotic accessories to enable remote control sex. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's take a quick break and when we get back,

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Speaker 1: now that we've covered sort of, you know, up to

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Speaker 1: the current state of affairs with sex spots, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the off the shelf on the market

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Speaker 1: robot Roxy. Alright, we're back. So yeah, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: Roxy a little bit. Roxy is I think a it's

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Speaker 1: an important example to hit, but it's also such a

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Speaker 1: uh problematic example because it it represents some of the

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Speaker 1: more notorious aspects of sexual robot. So we learned about

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Speaker 1: Roxy from Eon magazine, which if if you're a long

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Speaker 1: time listener, you know that we read quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of it. Uh. It's a robot companion. Uh. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite produce the Uncanny Valley effect, you know, unlike um,

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Speaker 1: those actroids that you sometimes see that are created in

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Speaker 1: like Japanese commercials or something like that. But they come

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Speaker 1: Roxy comes in a variety of models, and some of

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Speaker 1: them actually have personalities. So there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: programming that goes into this. Uh. It includes the regular Roxy.

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Speaker 1: There is also mature Martha Young Yoko and Frigid Farrah.

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Speaker 1: And that's where I got a little I got a

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Speaker 1: little creeped out personally, because the idea of frigid fare

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Speaker 1: is it's like she plays hard to get, she's you know,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily interested in having sex with you. And that's

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Speaker 1: a little that's where there's some weird lines. I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this is, you know, an obvious example of something

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Speaker 1: will come back to the idea that you have NNE

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Speaker 1: creating female robots for a male audience, and they've got

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Speaker 1: very specific fetish very stereotypical betrayals and um and sort

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Speaker 1: of male approved models of what a female is, very

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Speaker 1: simplistic models. Yeah. Oh, and I should clarify to young

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Speaker 1: Yoko is not although we are going to talk about

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Speaker 1: pedophile sex spots. Young Yoko is supposed to be over

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Speaker 1: the age of eighteen personality wise. But basically this roxy

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Speaker 1: robot sounds kind of like Sirian the way that it

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Speaker 1: talks back to you. There urpist is to pride more

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Speaker 1: than sex. The idea is that they're your true companion

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Speaker 1: and you can talk to them before and after sex. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and given that you've got all the personalities chosen here.

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Speaker 1: You know, what, what does this tell us about the

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Speaker 1: future proliferation of these sex spots? Uh? And here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets real weird. Aon says that the person who

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Speaker 1: created roxy it was originally created as the recreation of

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Speaker 1: a friend that was lost in nine eleven, and then

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Speaker 1: that developed into this consumer oriented sex spot. Well, and

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Speaker 1: then I've also read that that the technology behind Roxy

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Speaker 1: started out as a as an inquiry into creation of

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Speaker 1: a robot home care nurse. So now I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: there's just like these different urban myths about Roxy. Well, now,

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Speaker 1: I I I wrote a little bit years ago where

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Speaker 1: I ended up touching on Roxy and uh, and I

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Speaker 1: believe the home care nurse thing is is legit. But

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Speaker 1: I guess it comes down to the evolution of an idea,

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Speaker 1: the evolution of of figuring out how to commercially apply

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Speaker 1: your technology. So what starts as an as an intention

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Speaker 1: to create a robotic nurse, uh, may end up going

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Speaker 1: through some changes until suddenly you're producing a sex doll. Well,

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Speaker 1: like you said, with all technological developments, that kind of

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Speaker 1: the pioneering end of it is sexual in nature. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at the Internet. Yeah, exactly. Now we mentioned sex dolls.

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Speaker 1: Of course, sex dolls have been around for some time,

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Speaker 1: and it's been proven that individuals can at least find

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Speaker 1: some sort of detached pleasure or even an imaginative bond

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Speaker 1: with even just a non robotic semblance of a human.

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Speaker 1: I always think back to a wonderful BBC documentary titled

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Speaker 1: Guys and Dolls that came out. God, it must have

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Speaker 1: been this. I think it maybe ten years old. Now

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Speaker 1: you can find I think you can find most of

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Speaker 1: it on YouTube and other such websites. But they profiled

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Speaker 1: a handful of real doll owners. These are, of course

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Speaker 1: anatomically correct life size human replicants. So are they built

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Speaker 1: for the purpose of sexes. They're built with that purpose

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Speaker 1: exclusively in mind. But is this documentary explored the individuals

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Speaker 1: in their bond with these things ranged immensely so there

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Speaker 1: was there's like a there's one guy in it that's

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Speaker 1: hanging him up on hooks, and another that just seems

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Speaker 1: to obsessively collect him and has some stack like kindling

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Speaker 1: and his crawl space, and those are some examples that

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe hit the creep level of for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. But then there's this one guy who

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00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: seems to have a largely, if not exclusively, emotional relationship

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Speaker 1: with his doll, and he's going through like separation, anxiety

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Speaker 1: over having he's having to move and he's having to

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Speaker 1: ship it, and so it's it. It doesn't. It does

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Speaker 1: a good job of just showing you, all right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can have something like a real doll, but then

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Speaker 1: the varying levels of engagement with it, the way people

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Speaker 1: anthropomorphize it is going to vary from person to person. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess like if you want to step

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Speaker 1: back at it and look at it like a very

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Speaker 1: simple sense here and and pardon me if this is

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Speaker 1: a little vulgar, but uh, it sounds like we're somewhere

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Speaker 1: between that movie her I referred to earlier, where like

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Speaker 1: nobody is needed. It's just an emotional relationship with an

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Speaker 1: artificial consciousness and like a fleshlight, right, um, a fleshlight.

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Speaker 1: Just to explain, because this will come up again, is

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Speaker 1: a popular sex toy with a male market. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: um so, And that's kind of where we're going to

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Speaker 1: find criticism on both sides about this. Is like arguments

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Speaker 1: about why we shouldn't make sex spots and arguments about

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Speaker 1: why we should because there's this broad spectrum, right, um speaking,

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Speaker 1: which have you seen the movie Dead Girl before? I

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Speaker 1: have not. I'm familiar with it. I think is one

427
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: that would always show up on Netflix formula. Yeah, it's that.

428
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: I saw it on Netflix. It's not about sex spots,

429
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: but it's, um, it's related to this. I don't want

430
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: to give too much away, but a sense actually these

431
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: guys find a woman's dead body, but the body doesn't

432
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: rot at all, like she's inanimate, but she's not dead.

433
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: So it's a zombie film kind of yeah. Uh, and

434
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: it goes where you would expect it to go based

435
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: on what we're talking about. Anyways, it seemed related to

436
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: this alright. Well, on that note, let's get into the

437
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: case against sex spots. I feel like this is a

438
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: good place to start because it's going to tie in

439
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: more directly with some of those sci fi ideas that

440
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: we explored already. So you have one individual in particular

441
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: with it's worth mentioning here, and that's Dr Kathleen Richardson.

442
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: She's a robot ethicist at de Montfort University in Leicester,

443
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: and she heads the Campaign Against Sex Robots or c

444
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: a s R. And she makes a number of arguments,

445
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: basically has a manifesto. Yeah, and so look, we should

446
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: clarify like like this appeared to me to start off

447
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: as a long academic paper which is, you know, well written,

448
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: but now it's like it's this whole web presence with

449
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: sort of action items to it. Um And she calls

450
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: basically for an organized approach against the development of sex

451
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: robots as a necessary response for humanity. And she says

452
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: the reason why is that sex robots, in her mind,

453
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,959
Speaker 1: reflect human principles of dignity, mutuality, and freedom, and that

454
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: by creating these bots, it's a representation of violence, discrimination,

455
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: and coercion. So we are manifesting kind of like the

456
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: worst parts of ourselves in making these sex spots. And

457
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: she also argues that the development of sex spots further

458
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: sexually objectifies women and children. She says the vision for

459
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: sex spots is underscored by reference to the prostitute John Exchange,

460
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: which relies on recognizing only the needs and wants of

461
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: the buyers of sex, while the sellers of sex are

462
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: not attributed subjectively and they're reduced to you know, a

463
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: thing and object like a robot. She argues that the

464
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: development of sex robots and the ideas to support their

465
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: production show the immense horrors still present in the world

466
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: of prostitution, which is built on the perceived inferiority of

467
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: women and children, and therefore justifies their use of sex objects.

468
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: Also that the development of sex robots will further reduce

469
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: human empathy and that can only be developed by an

470
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 1: experience of a mutual relationship. And that's a that one

471
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: ties in nicely to you and Joe's recent episodes on

472
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: animal empathy and the human Absolutely. Yeah. She goes on

473
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: to challenge the view that the development of adult and

474
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: child sex robot robots will have a positive benefit to

475
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: society but instead further reinforced power relations of inequality and violence.

476
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Will get into what she's arguing about in a little bit, Yeah,

477
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: And then finally she says, you know, they take issue

478
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: with arguments that propose that sex robots could help reduce

479
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: sexual exploitation and violence toward prostituted persons. Uh, this is

480
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: pointing to all the evidence that shows how technology and

481
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: the sex trade co exists and reinforce each other, creating

482
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: more demands subsequently for human bodies. And we're gonna talk

483
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: about that a little bit too, especially in the case

484
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: of pedophilia. Now. Dr Kate Devlin, who's a researcher at

485
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: Goldsmith University of London UH their Department of Computing. She

486
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: took some issue with this in a September two thousand

487
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: sixteen interview with The Guardian. So she countered that that

488
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: this argument as a whole dismisses the fact that women,

489
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: not men, are quote more likely to purchase artificial non

490
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: human substitutes such as vibrators. Yeah. She also says that

491
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: the campaign against sex robots this is to distinguish this

492
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: is Kate Devlin talking against Kathleen Richardson UH. She says

493
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: that it rests on a parallel parallel that's drawn between

494
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: sex robots and female sex workers. And Devlin sees sex

495
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: robots as being potentially useful, especially if they're using machine

496
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: learning and bio feedback, in the sense that they can

497
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: quote provide adaptive, personal, fulfilling sexual experiences and in that

498
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: way they could be used for therapeutic reasons. She also

499
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: says sex look, sex is part of humanity's mental processes

500
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: and it's fundamental to our human conditions, so it's worth

501
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: considering how our bodily. Interactions like this make changes to

502
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: our brain and how that has bearing on our cognitive processes.

503
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: So there's a lot here that she's arguing that says like, yeah, like,

504
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: I understand your argument, Kathleen Richardson about you know, a

505
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: campaign against sexual robots. But there's some potential benefits here

506
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: too that you seem to be ignoring. Yeah, yeah, she

507
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: I think she makes a strong counter argument here, you know, saying, hey,

508
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: would a woman be disinterested in buying a human replica

509
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: or just a robotic sexual stimulations system because the the

510
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: market information would tend to say no, that women already

511
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: buy uh sexual technology, so why not the next generation

512
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: of sexual technology? Yeah? Absolutely, Now, indeed, there is this

513
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: problem that technology in general is often made by men

514
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: for men. Uh. And we can see examples of this

515
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: well beyond the scope of of sexual devices. The artificial heart,

516
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: for example, uh it's it's sizing has long best fit

517
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: the dimensions of an adult human males chest it it

518
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: wasn't until later that companies like SynCardia eventually rolled out

519
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: a size more suitable for a for adult females and children.

520
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: Another thing worth noting here, too is that newer forms

521
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: of sex toys are created specifically for sharing between couples,

522
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: so it's not necessarily male oriented. But here's the thing.

523
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: They're either marketed to couples or two men, not directly

524
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: to women, even though, as Devlin says, women are the

525
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: ones primarily using sex toys. So sex technology is definitely

526
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: being created from a dominant hoosexual male perspective here. And

527
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: even if sex spots aren't conscious, they're externally made to

528
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: look like people, right uh, specifically women who are owned

529
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: by heterosexual men. So maybe if we thought broader about

530
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: our sex spots, we could alleviate these long running human

531
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: problems the same way I like to think of it,

532
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: looking back to the vibrator and how it basically changed completely,

533
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: like the way that medicine was approaching things like hysteria. Yeah,

534
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: I mean it comes down to the fact that you

535
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: can you can go out to buy a sex um

536
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: toy and you can get something, Yes, it definitely looks

537
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: like a replica of a human body part, but you

538
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: can also get things that can easily be mistaken for

539
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: other household gadgets totally um. For instance, I U I

540
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: travel with an aero press, which is a coffee making device.

541
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: But it is a cylindrical gadget. It's like a like

542
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: a a French press that like is uh compartmentalized. Yeah,

543
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: it's basically like a plastic cylinder with a plunger that

544
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: goes in it and to press the coffee out the

545
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: other side. And I travel with it because it's a

546
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: great way to ensure good coffee on the go. But

547
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: it inevitably it looks like something like it could be

548
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: some sort of sexual and it's getting scanned through t s. A. Yeah,

549
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: our dogs have these toys called go Nuts. The company

550
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 1: is called go Nuts, uh, and they make these like

551
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: really sturdy rubbery dog chew toys. Because I've got two

552
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: pit bull mixes, so they just like destroy anything I

553
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: give them. And one of them is like a long

554
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: shaft like looking thing and the other one looks like

555
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: a doughnut. And the day that they got sent to

556
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: my wife's office, you know, she she works for a

557
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: big company security screens all the mail that goes through,

558
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: and she's just laughing. She's like, can you imagine with

559
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: the security people downstairs think as this stuff is going

560
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: through their X ray machine. The good news here, though,

561
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: is that this all means plausible deniability for any actual

562
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: sex device that has some degree of of of design

563
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: ambiguity about it. Now, in two thousand and ten, there

564
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: was a Dutch paper that came out and this was

565
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: written for the United Nations, and it was titled gender

566
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: Dimensions of Product Design and that it highlighted a quote

567
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: male gender bias in mini tech products and as well

568
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: as just a disconnect from the view of gender as

569
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: a spectrum. Uh, and that observationally, um, all of this

570
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: is influenced by biology, culture, and situation. So even I

571
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: guess the idea here is that even if you get

572
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: beyond the fact that it's it's largely men designing technology

573
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: for men or men designing technology for women, there's also

574
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: not necessarily that nuanced an idea of what what constitutes

575
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: gender in the human reality. Yeah, and you know, male

576
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: thinking has dominated the development of TVs and GPS devices,

577
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: So can we really expect anything better from physical and

578
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: conceptual design for sexual robotic systems? And then we've got

579
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: David Levy here, uh, and he I'm gonna let you

580
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: introduce this, but man, he wrote this really fascinating pieces.

581
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: It seems like he's written multiple pieces specifically about ethics

582
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: and robots. Yeah, this guy, this would be a good

583
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: place if you want to do a deeper dive into

584
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: some of these topics. That he's a British author, chess

585
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: master and CEO of Intelligent Toys Limited UH and he

586
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: wrote about much of these issues in the Ethics of

587
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: Robot Prostitutes from his UH that's featured in the book

588
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: Robot Ethics, published in two thousand eleven. And he argued

589
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: that sex spots only really become a problem when they're

590
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: bestowed with artificial consciousness, thus elevating them from mere artifact

591
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: to something more, something at least mimicking personhood. Yeah. So

592
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: the gist here of Levy's argument is that as long

593
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: as sex spots are artifacts without any artificial consciousness, there's

594
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: no ethical implications and having sex with them or using

595
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: them for prostitution. Now, if we go back, I would

596
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: imagine Dr Kathleen Richardson would take umbradge with that. But

597
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: he said, as you know, as long as there's no

598
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: artificial consciousness, we're okay. But if they do have a consciousness,

599
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: then that's when we get into illegal and ethical implications,

600
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: and not just for ourselves, but then we've got to

601
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: think about the robots. Do they get rights? Do they

602
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: have legal and ethical rights that are implied by their consciousness? Yeah,

603
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: this isn't This is a whole can of worms here

604
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: because on one hand, it gets into the whole question

605
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: of what is consciousness. We can't even define what it

606
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: is for humans, how do we define in robots? And

607
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: then it makes you ask questions about any and everything

608
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: where there's a potential like faking of consciousness, Like when

609
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: do I start have when I have to start becoming

610
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: concerned about MPC characters and video games, um, virtual individuals,

611
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: Like if you have if you have an MPC in

612
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: a video game that like it has a very realistic

613
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: betrayal to your your violence and you're you know, running

614
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: around gun toting whatever the behaviors in the video games.

615
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: Like at what point does it become kind of creepy?

616
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: That essentially I think the argument that West world tries

617
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: to make a season, right, Yeah, like insert Westworlds as

618
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: potential commentary on that question. One one more thought on this,

619
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: uh was reading an article Indian magazine and this is

620
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: a sex spot Slaves. Sociologist Lee Reich has this excellent quote,

621
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: but even if sex spots are not currently conscious, they

622
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: do have the external markings of personhood, and we are

623
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: programming them to be person alike. Indeed, we are programming

624
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: them to be like a specific type of person, the

625
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: type of woman who can be owned by a heterosexual man.

626
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: So now we've heard many of the arguments against sex spots,

627
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: when we've set up kind of where we're at with

628
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: the technology, let's take a quick break and when we

629
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: get back, we're gonna come back in on this and

630
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the argument for sex spots and

631
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: how they could be beneficial to humanity. All Right, we're back,

632
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: So in this next little bit, we're going to talk

633
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: about the victimization reduction argument for sex spots, And just

634
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: a quick warning, we're going to briefly discuss pedophilia here,

635
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: So if you really don't want to hear that, you know,

636
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: skip ahead a little bit on your device. We're we're

637
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: gonna discuss it with decorum here. But it does play

638
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: a role in this discussion. So a point of contentions,

639
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: as referenced already, is the argument that a robotic sex

640
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: spot would absorb the violence and abuse that a human

641
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 1: would otherwise suffer, and this would apply to both well,

642
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: really to to all individuals male female, um or a

643
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: child or I've also seen the argument, uh for animals

644
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: as well. So if you could have a robot stand

645
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: in and absorb that abuse, like better a robot than

646
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: an actual human like that, that's a problematic argument. Yeah,

647
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: but that is an argument that some people make, right.

648
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: I don't think there are many people out there who

649
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: would who would argue with the statement that if a

650
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: robot could suffer something rather than a human that would

651
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: be preferable. Well, depending on whether or not it has consciousness. Yeah,

652
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: well then then we get into that whole can of worms.

653
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: But there's a as I say, it's it's a problematic argument,

654
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: but it's it's one worth discussing, especially as it relates

655
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: to people with pedophilic impulses um. There's a great deal

656
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: of work that has gone into this topic over the years,

657
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: and we could easily do a whole episode on it,

658
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: though it would be rather down or of an episode.

659
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: There's no known medical or psychiatric cure for pedophilia, and

660
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: our methods of dealing with such individuals as often crude.

661
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 1: But we do have men such as Shin Takachi who's

662
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: abuse a Japanese man profiled in the in the Atlantic

663
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: in two thousands sixteen. And this is a guy who

664
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: struggles with an attraction to children as well as the

665
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: knowledge the resolve that his attraction is just incompatible with reality.

666
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: And that's the ultimate tragedy here, right, is that these

667
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: are individuals who are born with this, this drive, this inclination,

668
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: and it's completely incompatible with our world. It is, it's

669
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: completely reprehensible. And some of these individuals realize this enter

670
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: and do not act on their impulses. So what um,

671
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: what this man, what Takagi is has been working on

672
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: is creating sex dolls look like children, shifting them out

673
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: around the world to individuals who claim to need them.

674
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: But because what are the other options. There's cognitive behavioral therapy,

675
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: there's chemical castration, but a two thousand seven meta analysis

676
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 1: from the Mayo Clinic found that no current method can

677
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: actually quote alter the pedophiles basic sexual orientation toward children. Right,

678
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: So you end up with this argument, which is sort

679
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: of like, if you have these child sex spots, is

680
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: that a safer outlet for pedophiles or the the the

681
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: sort of flip side to that is, is that going

682
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: to aggravate their sense of frustration so that they act

683
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: out on real human beings even more right, And there's

684
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: no evidence to show that his approach works, but it

685
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: is difficult to gauge because things I already mentioned. There's

686
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: a lot of research, but a lot of the research

687
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: is based on actual offenders, not people who managed to

688
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: stay off impulses. But what research there is tends to

689
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: imply that such a doll might have really a reinforcing effect. Now,

690
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: of course, there are several different categories for pedophiles, but

691
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: a University of Toronto forensic psychologists and sexologist Michael Setto

692
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: speculates that there might be two broader distinctions among pedophiles.

693
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: So for one group, a doll or robot might serve

694
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 1: to keep them from seeking out chop pornography or become

695
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: abusers themselves. For others, though, it just might aggravate their impulses. Yeah,

696
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: so this this is very problematic. Uh, And I think

697
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: to like I'm imagining you, the listener, are probably struggling

698
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: with one concept here that we're sort of it's sort

699
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: of like the unspoken thing in the room, right, which

700
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: is the idea that pedophilia is inherent, it's not it's natural,

701
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: and it's part of this person's you know, biology, and

702
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: not something that's learned. And uh, you know, either way, though,

703
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: the research shows that it is different extremely difficult or

704
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: if not impossible to cure in the individual. So so

705
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: what do you do. We're left without the technology of

706
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: the medical expertise to quote unquote fix someone like this.

707
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: Then does that mean that a robotic doll would have

708
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: a place? And I have to say, you know, like

709
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: as sort of creepy as it is to read about

710
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: two Kagi, at least seems to be taking his impulses

711
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: and doing something productive with them, right, at least he's

712
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: trying to like turn it around, uh, into something that

713
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: has a benefit I guess to society, or at least

714
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: reduces danger to society. Um. But when you, like you

715
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: read about in this Atlantic article his workshop. He's got

716
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: this mountain workshop that's up in the woods, and all

717
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: of his employees have to be former military, specifically because

718
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: of the kind of chemicals that he's using in order

719
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: to create like, um, like more realistic skin. Uh. And

720
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: we should talk about this ceremony. So apparently because they're Japanese. Uh,

721
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: there's the special ceremony that's sort of along the lines

722
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: of Shinto animism that's performed for the dolls, specifically at

723
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: a shrine when their owners don't want them anymore because

724
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: they think of them as having I don't know if

725
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: soul isn't the right word, but but that there is

726
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: some kind of essence to them that you don't just

727
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: take this thing and throw it in the trash. Yeah,

728
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: he says in the article quote it's a common belief

729
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: in Japan that dolls are mirrors, that dolls show their

730
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: owners true self. So, again, a problematic scenario to look at,

731
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: but one that that is core to both the arguments

732
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: for and against sex robots. Right, and then this leads

733
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: us right back to Dr Kate Devlin, who was, you know,

734
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: the person who originally argued against the case against sex robots. Yeah,

735
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: and this brings us into what I think is the

736
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: most the most fascinating area, uh, that we're going to

737
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: talk about here today, and that's the therapy angle. So

738
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: she argues that sex spots would essentially be sex toys

739
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: that benefit from machine learning and bio feedback. And she

740
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: also points out that despite all of our sci fi

741
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: visions of humanoid sex robots. There's no reason they these

742
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: things would need to have a human form or a

743
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: human face. Again, we've already as we've already said, a

744
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: great many sex toys do not even look like parts

745
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: of a human, much less a human being. Um she

746
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: She points out specifically that for female females, there is

747
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: I think it's called the rabbit is u is, a

748
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: vibrator device that does not look like a part of

749
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: the male or female anatomy. And then the flesh light,

750
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: which we already mentioned. There apparently some models that do

751
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: look like replicas of human of human anatomy, but others

752
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: that don't, others that have more fantastic or abstract appearances.

753
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: So you could put these together and you could easily

754
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: imagine a sexual robot that either does not look like

755
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: a gendered human or even like maybe looks like a

756
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: spider or something. Yeah. Yeah, Like it could could sort

757
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: of be anything that could be like a rumba. Yeah,

758
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: rumba might be something. I don't know why I was

759
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: going this way, but like somebody might particularly want like

760
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: a kind of whale, like like a smallish whale. Yeah,

761
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: and I mean the thing is we can say, oh,

762
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: that's repellant. Who would want to have, you know, sexual

763
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: contact with an inhuman machine. But again, we are already

764
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: doing it. The market research shows that that individuals have

765
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: been using non human sexual machines for some time now,

766
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: so it's not out of keeping with human behavior. And

767
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of applications here that Devil is saying, right, like,

768
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: we could use this to treat a lot of different

769
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: ailments that humans are suffering from. That's right. So there's

770
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: the treatment of sex offenders, which we've already touched on,

771
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: UH couples therapy, which I think is interesting. You made

772
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: a point earlier about so many of the current devices

773
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: are made for for a couple to UH to use together,

774
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: sometimes across vast distances. Then this is a big one,

775
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: the restoration of sexual confidence following trauma and or injury. Now,

776
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: this is a topic we touched on some in our

777
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: our episode that we did where we interviewed Mary Roach

778
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: about about the surgical repair of genitalia, specifically soldiers who

779
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: have suffered you know, grievous wounds to that area of

780
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: the academy. That's an episode we should definitely put in

781
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: the links on the Landing page because it's related. Yeah,

782
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: and uh and and indeed, I believe Walter Reed Hospital

783
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: came up in that episode as well. They have a

784
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: sexual health and intimacy service that focuses on education and therapy.

785
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: And there's a great Atlantic article about this from last

786
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: year that folk this is on the broader topic. But

787
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: but the author points out that the department in question

788
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: features quote de facto sex classes that include sex toys

789
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: aimed at stimulating different parts of the body. So the

790
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: main aim here is individuals who have experienced genital or

791
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 1: spinal cord injuries. Uh, they may have lost their ability

792
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: to have an orgasm themselves, and they have to adapt

793
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: to their new bodies and a new approach to physical

794
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 1: intimacy with with their spouse or with you know, with

795
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 1: with new relationships in their lives. Now, in this case,

796
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: we're talking specifically about veterans who are maybe lost a

797
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: limb or something like that, or or but there's there's

798
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: some cases where sex therapy like this is needed for

799
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: other people as well. Yeah, and indeed, also memory impairing

800
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: injuries and just basic trauma that stems from combat can

801
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: disrupt an individual sex lift. So you need not even

802
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: have a physical injury for this kind of therapy to

803
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: be necessary. And so the question is could a sex

804
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: robot aid in this kind of of work as well. Now,

805
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: Delvin also hits on general sex therapy and says that,

806
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, VR therapy is already a big deal. And

807
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: she also mentions that VR therapy is already already a

808
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: thing and it is only going to become more of

809
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: a of a big deal in the future. And uh.

810
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: And then there's this idea of the use of of

811
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: sex spots to potentially allow individuals to explore gender or

812
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: sexual orientation or just sexuality um as a whole. And

813
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: in this the role of the sex spot would very

814
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: closely mimic the role of a sex surrogate. So this

815
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: is a thing that already exists. Uh. And you can

816
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: look this up. Uh, this is not prostitution. Surrogates are

817
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: members of the International Professional Surrogates Association and they only

818
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: work with people who have been referred to them by psychotherapist.

819
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: According to an interview in the two thousand three Salon article,

820
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: I was a middle aged version Los Angeles surrogate partner

821
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: Dr Vina Blanchard. Uh. He works generally works with older virgins.

822
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: They account for her practice. And these patients are, you know,

823
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: are men who have encountered limiting obstacles to experiencing sex.

824
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: They didn't develop the interpersonal skills necessary, etcetera. And the

825
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: exact reasons, you know, very quite a bit, encompassing everything

826
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: from extreme shyness to history of sexual abuse. They're often

827
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: played by feelings of shame and that they need someone

828
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: to help them break through it all. All right, So

829
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: I've got a personal story here that I can absolutely

830
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: see applications. Okay, uh, I had a nightmarish temp job

831
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: in my early twenties. I don't think I've told you

832
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: about this before. Um So, I was tempting in my

833
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: early twenties. This was when I was living in Boston,

834
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: and one of my assignments was to work for a

835
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: week for a psychotherapist whose job it was to basically

836
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: review and interview sex offenders and decide whether or not

837
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: they should be released from prison into the general population,

838
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: like whether or not their sentence was was up, they

839
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: had been quote unquote reformed, and the job that was

840
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: assigned to me was to This was a while ago.

841
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 1: I literally listened to Cassette tapes that they would record

842
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: of their sessions and transcribe everything. And so I did

843
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: this for a week straight in the middle of a

844
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: very cold winter in Boston. It's a long community. It

845
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: was in Quincy, and uh wow, like it was just

846
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: like getting like this toxic sludge dumped into your head,

847
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I remember that last day, like knowing

848
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: it was over, just standing there at the end of

849
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: the day, waiting for the shuttle to pick me up

850
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: to take me to the train and just crying. Uh.

851
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: And so I think about you know, not not just

852
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: virgins or or maybe pedophiles or even veterans who need

853
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: some help with you know, these potentially debilitating sexual I

854
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: don't know issues that they're having, but but all of

855
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: this stuff is it's very real in my head based

856
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: on that one week experience. Yeah, yeah, I mean that

857
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: sounds like it definitely definitely, I mean I had an

858
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: impact on your your psyche to to have to absorb

859
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, yeah, but it Yeah, I can see

860
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: that the definitely applications uh here as well. Now surrogates,

861
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: as we've been talking about, their their intimacy coaches and therapists,

862
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: and they don't always have sex with clients. So there

863
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: is much about imparting relationship skills, providing human combassion, and

864
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: also just creating an open, honest line of communication, breaking

865
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: through in the case of especially in the case of

866
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: the virgins, breaking through the shame. And I can see

867
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: where this could this could definitely be an area for

868
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: sex robots in the future. You know, So sexual abuse

869
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: or any kind of sort of sexual dysfunction as we

870
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: see it, especially in sort of psychoanalytical terms, right are

871
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: it seems to be something that sort of breeds a

872
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: vicious cycle. Uh, you know, like the people who are

873
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: hurt or tend to then go on to hurt others.

874
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: So in this instance, like I'm I'm seeing like the surrogates,

875
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to be in that situation. But the

876
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: sex robots, again, as long as they're not artificially conscious,

877
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: they could serve a role to sort of put a

878
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: halt to that vicious circle. Yeah. Yeah. And and also

879
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: just the idea you think about this idea that there

880
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: are people out there who have trouble developing relationships, that

881
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: they don't have the social tools perhaps or there there's

882
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: some sort of trauma holding them back from having the

883
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: kind of interpersonal relationships that can lead to sexual contact

884
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: when they are their individual Should they should they just

885
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: live out their lives without sexual contact? Are they aren't?

886
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: Do they have like on some level, do they have

887
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: a right to have sex with a robotic device or

888
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: machine or robotic humanoid if such a thing can be

889
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: made available within an ethical framework that works well. And

890
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: let's remember, let's go back to what we said earlier,

891
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: which is that sexuality and sex are part of the

892
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: human condition and our brains are absolutely affected by them.

893
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 1: So why not have this technology that would allow those

894
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: people to experience the human condition like the rest of us. Yeah,

895
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: and this this all forces me to sort of try

896
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: to imagine this future sex spot. Like on one hand,

897
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: imagine like a purely the therapeutic one. So you have

898
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: to go to a therapist, to human therapist to be

899
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, prescribed your sex spot and they come to

900
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: you and it's not about just simply fulfilling some physical

901
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: need or even an emotional need, but allowing a transformation,

902
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: like getting you to a point to where you are

903
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: comfortable with your own sexuality, comfortable comfortable with just human

904
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: sexuality in general, that you are more capable of of

905
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: healthy human sexual relationships and on the other hand, like

906
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: a purely hedonistic level, a mechanical room. But we're Spider

907
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: that just when when called, you know, crawls out of

908
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: a box in your closet and does what needs to

909
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: be done and sleep at night. Right, that's very transmetropolitan.

910
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm imagining Spider Jerusalem has something like that in his closet. Yeah, yeah,

911
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: but not too far from you know, other topics that

912
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: we've talked about in the past, especially when you add

913
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: in sort of like a bioengineering into the mix. Yeah, alright,

914
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: so there you have it. Sex spots again, something we

915
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: just see time and time again in sci fi. That's

916
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: really become part of our pop culture. But I don't

917
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: think most of us take time to really break it

918
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: down and think about the components, think about the pros

919
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: and the cons. Certainly some of these I thought about before,

920
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: but other aspects, especially the whole therapeutic aspect, I've never

921
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: really given any consideration. I think with the surge of

922
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: Westworld last year, like this kind of thing has become

923
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: maybe water cooler talk, but not to the extent of

924
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: like the research that we did here really looking at

925
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: like the pros and cons and how it's beneficial or

926
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: how the theory, the philosophical approach to it, of how

927
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: it could potentially sort of show the worst of humanity

928
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: as well. That's the part I think that like West

929
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: World's really honing in on. But I don't know, like

930
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: has West World? I can't really remember, and I don't

931
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: think this is spoilers, but like, was there an instance

932
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: of somebody who visited the park who needed that kind

933
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: of therapeutic help and going to one of the brothels.

934
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: I feel like it might have come up, just you know,

935
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: in the margins, but I don't remember it being a

936
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: major character of all because because ultimately, like how how

937
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: dramatic is that? Right? Right? You want? You wanted to

938
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: explore the cases of of abuse or the cases of love,

939
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: because that those are the two big trends we see.

940
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: Either someone either is abusive to a feminine sexual robot

941
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: or they fall in love with it. Uh, there's not

942
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: a lot of in Obviously, there's a lot more space

943
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: in the human condition for sexual contact to take place

944
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: as a broader spectrum, so it seems like it should

945
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: be present as well in our consideration of sex spots.

946
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: Maybe that's something Season two will get into. I mean,

947
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. All right, Well, everyone listening to this

948
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: episode is a human being, so I'm sure everyone has

949
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: thoughts on the current technology, uh where we're headed with it,

950
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: as well as all the various fantastic and and maybe

951
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: even more hard boiled sci fi visions of what sex

952
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: spots might consist of. Yeah, and we hope we didn't,

953
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, disturb you too much with getting into some

954
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: graphic territory here, but this seemed like a topic that

955
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: was worth really diving into and relevant to not only

956
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: popular culture but modern technology. All right, Now, as we

957
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: close out here, we've been we we like to highlight

958
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: various nonprofits and and and helpful organizations. Given the some

959
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: of the subject matter we've talked about here, we just

960
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 1: wanted to mention RAIN. That's r ai N in there,

961
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. You can find

962
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: them online, but you can also call them seven on

963
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: your phone at one eight hundred six five six hope

964
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: or hundred six five six four six seven three. And

965
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: also we're still celebrating Tripod month here at how stuff works.

966
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with what that is, podcasts around

967
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 1: the world are sharing one another's feeds, and the way

968
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: that they're doing that is on social media, letting everybody

969
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: know what they're listening to using the hashtag tripod that's

970
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 1: t r y pod uh. And the one that I'd

971
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 1: like to include here is I just got back from

972
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 1: south By Southwest and I saw a couple of live

973
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: performances of the podcast Recode Decode uh, and they did

974
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: some pretty cool stuff that I think if you're a

975
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: fan of Stuff to Blow your Mind, you might be

976
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: interested in. Yeah, and hey, you get on social media

977
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: everyone out there and use the the hashtag tripod with

978
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: a Y to just list some of your favorite podcast

979
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying list us you can you want, but

980
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: also listened the other things that you listen to, the

981
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: other shows that get you through the day. We've had

982
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: a couple of people who have who've done some really

983
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: nice hashtag tripods for us Specifically, I've seen some really

984
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: cool stuff on Instagram where they take pictures of oh,

985
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 1: they listen to us. Yeah, that's a that's a clever idea.

986
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: All right. In the meantime, head on over to stuff

987
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. That's what you'll find

988
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: all the podcast episodes. The landing page for this episode,

989
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: you will find links out to our various social media

990
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram, and who knows

991
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: what else. Who knows what the future will bring. Yeah,

992
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: and if you just want to write us the old

993
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: fashioned way, we are at blow the mind at how

994
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

995
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is that how stuff works dot com.

996
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: Bla Busy Presents or footbot prop