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Speaker 1: How do you feel you have the numbering album in

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Speaker 1: the country, And I remember saying I've never been more

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Speaker 1: unhappy in my life. Let's say you spend twenty years

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Speaker 1: of your life working towards a goal that's going to

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Speaker 1: solve everything and nothing changes. That's when you get hopeless.

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Speaker 1: The best selling author and host the number one health

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Speaker 1: and wellness.

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Speaker 2: Podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 2: to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to each and every one of you that come

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Speaker 2: back every week to listen, learn, and grow. I'm so

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Speaker 2: grateful that together we're trying to make the world a happier, healthier,

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Speaker 2: and more healed place. And you know, my goal in

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Speaker 2: life with this show is to try and introduce you

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Speaker 2: to people that I find have fascinating insights, have counterintuitive

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Speaker 2: points of view, are able to open our minds, help

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Speaker 2: us imagine and think differently. And today's guest is someone

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Speaker 2: that our teams have been in touch for around maybe

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Speaker 2: three years at this point and was waiting for this

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Speaker 2: opportunity to sit with him in his presence in person,

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Speaker 2: and so I feel really grateful to have this opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking about none other than nine time Grammy winning producer,

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Speaker 2: named one of the one hundred most influential people in

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Speaker 2: the world by Time and the most successful producer in

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Speaker 2: any genre by Rolling Stone. Rick Rubin, of course, has

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Speaker 2: collaborated with artists from Tom Petty to Adele, Johnny Cash,

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Speaker 2: to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys, to Slayer,

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Speaker 2: Kanye West, to The Strokes and System of a Down

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Speaker 2: to Jay Z. Rick Rubin, Welcome to On Purpose. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being here, Rick.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, sir.

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Speaker 2: Just from the moment you walked in, it was I

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Speaker 2: felt a sense of synergy which was really beautiful to

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Speaker 2: experience as we were just walking over here. And I

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Speaker 2: would never start an interview with this question. Today, we're

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Speaker 2: obviously talking about your new book, which by the way,

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Speaker 2: needs no introduction in and of itself. It's been performing

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Speaker 2: incredibly well. It's been on the New York Times bestseller

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Speaker 2: list for for months now. The Creative Act A Way

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Speaker 2: of Being. If you don't already have this book, I

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Speaker 2: highly recommend it. Whether you think you're a creative or not.

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Speaker 2: This is a book that's going to help you tap

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Speaker 2: inward into helping you access a part of yourself that

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Speaker 2: you may not even know exists, or refine and deepen

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Speaker 2: apart that does exist. So highly recommend the creative act

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: Rick.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't usually start with this question, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like you're someone that When I was preparing for this

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Speaker 2: interview today, this was the question that stood out to

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Speaker 2: me the most, and so I had to ask it

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Speaker 2: to you. You start this book by saying, we're all creators, right,

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Speaker 2: We're all creators, and I'm intrigued to know who have

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Speaker 2: you created? Like? Who are you like at the core

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Speaker 2: of it? How do you see yourself? I think we

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Speaker 2: live in a world today where people create who we

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Speaker 2: are to us in our own minds. Our families and

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Speaker 2: friends create us. Our the media we consume creates us.

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Speaker 2: And I think everyone will agree that we have so

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Speaker 2: many influences. But who's the you you're trying to create

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Speaker 2: or have tried to create over the last few decades.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if trying would be the word I

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Speaker 1: would use. I would say I'm true to whoever's inside there.

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Speaker 1: I don't look at the outside very much. I look

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Speaker 1: inward and try to focus on what do I feel?

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Speaker 1: What am I seeing in the hopes that by sharing

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Speaker 1: what's going on in me, it maybe resonates with someone else.

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Speaker 1: I can't predict what someone else would like, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think anybody can. So if I'm true, authentically true

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Speaker 1: to myself, that's the best chance of someone else liking something.

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Speaker 1: So I would say tuning into myself and being honest

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Speaker 1: with myself and anything I can do to get closer

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Speaker 1: to understanding what I like and why I like it,

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Speaker 1: and what I don't like and why I don't like

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Speaker 1: it is helpful in the work that I do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that idea of almost like a personal

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Speaker 2: check in or a sense check. And it's interesting we

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Speaker 2: do it after we eat food, like you know whether

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Speaker 2: you liked the restaurant or you didn't like a.

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Speaker 1: Restaurant, or it's automatic. It's funny because I've been asked

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Speaker 1: about like, how can you be so confident in your opinion?

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Speaker 1: It's like, if you taste food, how confident can you

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Speaker 1: be if you like it or you don't like it? It's

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Speaker 1: so clear, it's so face value, and I think we

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Speaker 1: tend to overthink and put layers on top of something

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Speaker 1: as simple as it tastes really good. I like it,

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Speaker 1: or you know what, this one's not for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's as simple as.

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Speaker 2: That, absolutely. And why do you think it is, though,

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Speaker 2: that over the years we've all as humans from your perspective,

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Speaker 2: your opinion, I'd be fascinated to know you've worked with

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Speaker 2: so many people who also make things that are fascinating

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Speaker 2: to billions of people on the planet. Right there's we

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Speaker 2: all experience what it feels like to get five to

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Speaker 2: ten people to laugh at a joke or listen to

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Speaker 2: something we do. But when you're creating at that scale, what,

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Speaker 2: in your opinion, has made us so addicted to wanting

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Speaker 2: to become someone that people like and often go against

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Speaker 2: who we truly are. You just said you like to

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Speaker 2: sense that authenticity and feel how you feel a lot

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Speaker 2: of people are scared of that. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: would rather mold and become malleable and evolve and become

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Speaker 2: who people want them to be. Why do you think

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Speaker 2: that is?

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Speaker 1: People like to be accepted. People want to be accepted,

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Speaker 1: And I'm suggesting in the book that the best way

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Speaker 1: to be accepted is to be yourself. It's not to

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Speaker 1: change yourself to what someone else thinks. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you don't really know what someone else thinks. And if

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Speaker 1: you're not genuine to yourself, there's like nothing is there.

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Speaker 1: It's just a projection or a mask. It's not true.

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Speaker 1: And there's something about authenticity Like I get to work

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Speaker 1: with artists, some of whom have very different ways of

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Speaker 1: seeing the world than me, and I support their vision

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Speaker 1: a million percent, even though whatever they're talking about, maybe

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Speaker 1: I may be diametrically opposed to what they're talking about,

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Speaker 1: but I support them a million percent, and anything I

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Speaker 1: can do to support them getting their message across the

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Speaker 1: clearest they can. I support that. The only way we

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Speaker 1: can learn anything is through the reality of seeing what's

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Speaker 1: around us and learning there are these different points of

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Speaker 1: view around us. If we're all thinking the same thing,

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Speaker 1: it's boring. Why would we make anything if everyone thinks

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Speaker 1: the same thing. What makes us interesting are the differences

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Speaker 1: and even the imperfections. The imperfections are what makes us humans,

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Speaker 1: what makes us what we are. It's like there's so

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Speaker 1: much talk today about chat, GPT and AI. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's a different thing than a human sharing their own

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Speaker 1: experience warts and all. That's what we love. We love

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Speaker 1: you know you may hear a song about someone who

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Speaker 1: says terrible heartbreak, and you may not be experiencing terrible heartbreak,

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Speaker 1: but hearing them honestly talk about a human experience, even

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Speaker 1: one that we're not having, can make us cry, can

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Speaker 1: make us resonate with them, can give us a better

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Speaker 1: understanding of the world. Absolutely, And we're not all everything,

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Speaker 1: you know, We're all only us. Each of us is ourselves. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One thing when I was reading your book, it reminded

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Speaker 2: me of something else I read a while ago, And

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Speaker 2: what I read said that the Japanese say we have

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Speaker 2: three faces. One face that we show the entire world,

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Speaker 2: The second face is the face that we only show

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Speaker 2: our family and friends. And the third face, they say,

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Speaker 2: we show no one at all, maybe not even ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't even But what you're saying is almost

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Speaker 2: like when we tap into that essence to come that self,

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Speaker 2: that's where all this beauty and imagination and creativity stems from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the most it seems to be the most

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Speaker 1: interesting and the most particular. You know, in a sea

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Speaker 1: of information. The more yours is personal, the more it's

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Speaker 1: not like hers or his or theirs, it's it's yours.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: For all of us, we get more of a sense

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Speaker 1: of reality. Even if our views are different than everyone else's,

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Speaker 1: it still helps us understand this is this place that

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Speaker 1: we're in where there are these there are these different views.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting when I speak to someone who has a

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Speaker 1: different view on anything. I always want to learn more.

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Speaker 1: How did you get there? What can I learn from you?

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Speaker 1: You know, I never assume that I know anything.

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Speaker 2: Were you always like that? Or whether experiences in your

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Speaker 2: childhood that informed that? Because I feel like there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of people more generally speaking, and I don't

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Speaker 2: like to stereotype, but just as an overall sense, a

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Speaker 2: lot of the reasons why we struggle with doing what

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Speaker 2: you just said is defending our viewpoint gives us a

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Speaker 2: sense of safety and security, and we feel vulnerable if

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Speaker 2: someone else's viewpoint that seems opposite to ours could be true.

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Speaker 2: So that's one reason. The second is we generally struggle

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Speaker 2: as humans to entertain to opposing ideas. We struggle to

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Speaker 2: understand the nuance that someone can be kind but also

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Speaker 2: be assertive, or someone can be complex yet really compassionate,

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Speaker 2: like there can be these paradoxes that exist. I was

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Speaker 2: reading recently about how black and white TVs are not

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Speaker 2: really black and white, they're shades of gray. There is

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Speaker 2: no black and white pixel. It's really really minute sh

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Speaker 2: shades of gray that are changing. So were you always

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Speaker 2: that way? Always that curious? Did that start somewhere? Does

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Speaker 2: that come from parent? Where did that come for you?

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Speaker 2: I'm intrigued.

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Speaker 1: I would say I've always been open minded. Earlier in

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Speaker 1: my career, I probably had more of a view of

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Speaker 1: I know how to do it, like, I know my way,

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Speaker 1: and my way was fine. But over the years I've

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Speaker 1: realized that my way isn't necessarily the best way. It's

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Speaker 1: just one way, and there are many other ways that

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Speaker 1: are great. I was a vegan for twenty two years

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Speaker 1: and now I'm mainly carnivore. When you've really committed to

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Speaker 1: a vegan lifestyle, it's very difficult to break out of it.

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Speaker 1: And for about a year I was a I believe

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Speaker 1: that eating meat was the healthiest thing I could do,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't do it because I was vegan. I

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Speaker 1: was committed to being a vegan. So it's a perfect

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Speaker 1: example because it was something I was dedicated to for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time. I had new information. It

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Speaker 1: was hard to change. It was hard to break out

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Speaker 1: of it. But as we get new information, we have

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Speaker 1: to evolve. How can we live in an old belief

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Speaker 1: if you believe the same thing that you believe twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago about everything I don't know that you're living.

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Speaker 2: And so we've got to have that openness and the

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Speaker 2: ability to.

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Speaker 1: Cure my curiosity, a curiosity about what's it like if

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Speaker 1: my view is my view of the world is wrong?

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Speaker 1: What does someone else know? What can I learn from?

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Speaker 1: Not to disregard what someone else thinks, like why do

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Speaker 1: they think that what I know? There's something I can

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Speaker 1: learn from someone who sees it differently than me, and

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Speaker 1: I want to understand it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's exactly why I asked you about your past,

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Speaker 2: because I feel that I always try and study someone's

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Speaker 2: past in order to understand how they came to a conclusion,

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Speaker 2: because or even their behavior is often the people that

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Speaker 2: I feel act in ways that seem unreasonable or ways

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Speaker 2: that I don't agree with. When I track back and

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Speaker 2: look at their past, I can often be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: there are the dots and they can probably see them too,

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Speaker 2: of why they've chosen that path, not that that path

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Speaker 2: is right or.

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Speaker 1: It takes a.

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Speaker 2: Lot to go beyond right and wrong because these constructs

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Speaker 2: are so and that's what I feel this book does.

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Speaker 2: This book in itself breaks the construct of what a

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Speaker 2: book is, right like that. When I picked it up,

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Speaker 2: I was assuming that I was going to read a

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Speaker 2: memoir or like stories and tells. I assume that what

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Speaker 2: it would be in my belief system of what a

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Speaker 2: book is by a prominent figure who's had a life

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Speaker 2: such as yours. And then I open it up and

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait a minute, this is like, this

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Speaker 2: is not what I was expecting. And I'm seeing like poetry,

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Speaker 2: and I'm seeing like rhymes, and I'm seeing just short

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Speaker 2: reflections and some really beautiful even exercises and activities that

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Speaker 2: you suggest. And I thought, even in this book, you're

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Speaker 2: breaking down what someone sees as a book. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the color does it. It's stunning, And it's like, that's

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Speaker 2: something I would love to help people develop, because I

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Speaker 2: think it's a skill. It's a habit. And you talk

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Speaker 2: about habits in the book, and we're only as creative

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Speaker 2: as the habits we keep. You say, how do we

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Speaker 2: develop that? Andy? Is there a step by step system

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Speaker 2: or is it something that you just start tomorrow and

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Speaker 2: you now are more curious when something conflicting comes your way.

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Speaker 1: It's something you get better at the more you practice,

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Speaker 1: and meditation is a great tool to quiet ourselves enough

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Speaker 1: to get in touch with how we see the world.

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Speaker 1: The closer we can get to what we see. That's

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Speaker 1: a starting position to be able to then understand how

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Speaker 1: someone else sees it. And it's interesting to be able

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Speaker 1: to learn to argue the points opposite what you believe.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you don't understand all sides of the story,

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Speaker 1: you don't really understand the story. So it's helpful to

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Speaker 1: understand the whole picture and hold all of the beliefs

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Speaker 1: softly enough to be surprised and learn something new and

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Speaker 1: change everything you know.

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Speaker 2: The book is called The Creative Act, and it is

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Speaker 2: about being creative more than even doing things that are creative.

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Speaker 2: But have you ever sacrificed creativity for anything on any

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Speaker 2: project or any personal endeavor in life where creativity had

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Speaker 2: to be sacrificed or you felt pushed to sacrifice the

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Speaker 2: where you felt it was being where there was a

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Speaker 2: bit of a part of you that was like I

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Speaker 2: might have to let go.

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Speaker 1: In the world of art. I feel fearless. I feel

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Speaker 1: like whatever strikes me as this is what's interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm good with that. It doesn't extend as strongly into life.

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Speaker 1: I know people who are completely fearless in life. I'm

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Speaker 1: not there yet. It's very impressive. I love it. But

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Speaker 1: within the confines of creativity and making things, I know

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Speaker 1: and only I know it through experience. I started only

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Speaker 1: making things I liked. Luckily people like them. Otherwise I'd

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Speaker 1: have a different job. I would still be making things

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Speaker 1: because it was always my passion. I never thought it

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Speaker 1: would be my work. I always knew I would make

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Speaker 1: things because that's what I love to do. I thought

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Speaker 1: I would have a regular, straight job to support my

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Speaker 1: habit of making things, and then miraculously the universe allowed

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Speaker 1: me to make things as a full time thing in life.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing. How we always talk about how like

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Speaker 2: life imitates or imitates life, and why has it been

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Speaker 2: harder to translate from art to life that idea of fearlessness.

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Speaker 2: What are the things that you find yourself fearing in

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Speaker 2: life that you find so effortless here.

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Speaker 1: There's a life in death commitment in art that's different

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Speaker 1: than the life and death commitment in life. Jumping out

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Speaker 1: of an airplane is different than you know, telling a

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Speaker 1: controversial joke. I can remember recently, four or five years ago,

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Speaker 1: I had open heart surgery and I was really afraid.

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Speaker 1: And I was with a an artist friend who's a

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Speaker 1: fearless artist, and I told me, I'm going into the surgery.

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Speaker 1: I'm really nervous. He's like, Oh, You're going to be fine.

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Speaker 1: Why you even thinking about that, Like, that's that's a

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Speaker 1: crazy thought, because he's confident. He's fearless in life. Still,

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Speaker 1: the normal fears of life get me. But in art,

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Speaker 1: I know the real power in it is going to

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Speaker 1: the fringe edges of where you can go. That's what it.

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Speaker 1: The purpose of doing it is to see how far

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Speaker 1: you can take it. So I feel, in a way

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Speaker 1: obligated to do that. So I know that's what's that's

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Speaker 1: what's most interesting to me. You know, there's so much

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Speaker 1: middle of the road and it doesn't interest me. I

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Speaker 1: want it because it's louder, quieter, softer, arder. It's pushing

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Speaker 1: some boundary. That's why I take note. It's not more

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Speaker 1: of the same, it's not just another it's the one

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Speaker 1: that makes you like, you stop and did I really

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Speaker 1: hear that? Did I really see that? What's going on here?

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Speaker 1: You know, you see a movie where you have to

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Speaker 1: lean forward and pay attention, like what's happening? It's not

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Speaker 1: just the audience's hand is being held and walk through

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Speaker 1: a story simply. I like the complexity and difficulty that

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Speaker 1: forces me as the viewer to participate in what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just being carried along.

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Speaker 2: I'm intrigued if you'd be happy to go there? How

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Speaker 2: do you use some of the creativity that you found

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Speaker 2: in art in order to navigate some of the fears

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Speaker 2: in life? Is it helpful?

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Speaker 1: It is helpful, And one of the things is realizing

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Speaker 1: the attitude we bring to things changes it completely. The

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Speaker 1: same event could be terrifying, or we can decide it's okay,

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Speaker 1: and it's the same exact event. It's just a mentality.

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Speaker 1: I had an experience years ago. I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a place where there are no insects.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Where I grew up was just a very contained, protected environment.

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Speaker 1: So I was and my mom was afraid of insects.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up with this feeling of insects as

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Speaker 1: foreign and scary. And I was in Hawaii about seven

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Speaker 1: years ago, and there are centipedes that can sting you.

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Speaker 1: They don't kill you, but they're very painful. And I've

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Speaker 1: been going to Kauai for a long time and I

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Speaker 1: was aware of them and in the back of my

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Speaker 1: mind afraid of them. And one night I woke up

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Speaker 1: my head was itchy. I brushed my head and I

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Speaker 1: felt something extremely painful, and I said to my wife,

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Speaker 1: I think I was just stung by a centipede. And

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Speaker 1: I have one of two choices, which is what my

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Speaker 1: entire life has led me up to, or I can

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Speaker 1: decide it's okay and go back to sleep. And she said,

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Speaker 1: the second one sounds better. I'll do that twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I could have done that thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago. I don't I'm sure I couldn't have done that.

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Speaker 1: The panic is what I've been trained for my whole life.

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Speaker 2: That's that conditioning where we're all, as you said, trained, conditioned,

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Speaker 2: prepared for in a certain way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even things that we don't know about, like we

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Speaker 1: may be afraid. Did you know that people were not

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Speaker 1: afraid of sharks before the movie Jaws?

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Speaker 2: No, I did not know that the.

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Speaker 1: Reason everyone's afraid of sharks is because of the movie Jaws.

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Speaker 2: Wow. That I mean that makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 2: That makes the world of sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: How.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what we seek or what we shun comes from

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Speaker 2: a movie or a song or a visual demonstration of

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Speaker 2: but whatever it may be. And I find hence so

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Speaker 2: many fears are not real. And as we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: fear only or so often exists mainly in the mind.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're talking about, is a construct of

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Speaker 2: the mind. When we're talking about creativity, you address this

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Speaker 2: fear head on in the beginning, because it is a fear.

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Speaker 2: Everyone has somewhat of a fear. Just as we say

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Speaker 2: things like, oh I can't sing, we say things like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not creative or I'm not artistic or I've never

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Speaker 2: really been a creative and more academic or whatever it

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Speaker 2: may be. We have these again, constructs right and wrong, academic, creative,

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Speaker 2: mostly polar opposites. And you're actually saying, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: this is something everyone can access and has access to.

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Speaker 1: It and do access and do access. Yeah, we just

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Speaker 1: don't all acknowledge it. But deciding to take a different

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Speaker 1: route home because there's a traffic jam in front of you,

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Speaker 1: and figuring out the way to go. That's a creative decision.

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Speaker 1: Cooking food and it tasting a certain way and you think, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it'll taste better if I add this to it.

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Speaker 1: That's a creative decision. We all do them every day.

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Speaker 1: We make creative choices. Anytime we do something that's not

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Speaker 1: exactly the same as the way we did it yesterday,

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Speaker 1: the reason it's different is because we made a creative choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, as simple as that, as simple as a

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Speaker 2: car anything, there a sprinkle of this or that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we're all doing it, and the book is

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Speaker 1: an invitation to open that channel as far and freely

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Speaker 1: as you can.

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Speaker 2: It really does that. I really believe it does that.

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Speaker 2: I what I love about it is you can truly

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Speaker 2: turn to any page. And I know they say it's

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Speaker 2: about a lot of books, and I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: true for most books, to be honest, because if you

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Speaker 2: pick a random book, a random page of a book,

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Speaker 2: the context is completely out. Whereas with this there truly

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Speaker 2: is that sense of if you're looking for that creativity,

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Speaker 2: if you're trying to seek it within yourself. There's something

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Speaker 2: that will inspire you. What have you found over the

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Speaker 2: years working with artists, working with yourself, what have been

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Speaker 2: the biggest blocks to creativity or to accessing that? What

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Speaker 2: are the biggest blocks? Is it? I know, and I'll

398
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Speaker 2: touch on a few that I'm intrigued by and curious about.

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Speaker 2: But what would you say are the biggest blocks that

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Speaker 2: people have to being truly creative and imaginative.

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Speaker 1: One big block is concerns about what other people think.

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Speaker 1: That's a big one. I made this thing that I love,

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Speaker 1: but I think other people would like it more if

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Speaker 1: I made it different for them. We don't know what

405
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Speaker 1: they would like. It's a really it's all in our head.

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Speaker 1: It comes back to this thing of what I think

407
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Speaker 1: isn't good enough? You know, if I like it, that

408
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Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. That's what people think it's like. Just

409
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Speaker 1: because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,

410
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Speaker 1: Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all

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Speaker 1: of the value. That's the success comes when you say

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Speaker 1: I like this enough for other people to see it.

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Speaker 1: Not other people like it, so it's successful. That doesn't

414
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Speaker 1: mean anything because that's other people liking it is out

415
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Speaker 1: of your control. All that's in your control is making

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Speaker 1: the thing to the best of your ability. I talk

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Speaker 1: about it usually. The way I talk about it is greatness,

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Speaker 1: and that's the way I thought of it my whole

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Speaker 1: life was my interest is in making something great, greatness, lasting, greatness, timeless.

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Speaker 1: And I came to realize recently it's all an offering

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Speaker 1: to God. And if you're making an offering to God,

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Speaker 1: you're not thinking about, oh, what's the budget, or I hope,

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Speaker 1: I hope this segment of the audience is going to

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Speaker 1: like it or don't. We don't think like that. It's

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Speaker 1: a higher vibration. We're making the best we can make

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Speaker 1: to the best of our ability out of love and devotion.

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Speaker 1: That's what it is. And there is no I'm changing

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Speaker 1: it for someone else because it can't be better than

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Speaker 1: this devotional act that we're doing. There is no higher form.

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Speaker 2: And that's what you see so much in nature around us.

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Speaker 2: I've always found like the sun is just selflessly serving

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Speaker 2: and giving, and you see a bush of flowers, or

433
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 2: you see a tree that's growing fruits, and again it's

434
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: providing shade and fruit, and it's just serving. And it's

435
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: interesting how when you call it a devotional act, the

436
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: idea that it's a service, it's an offering.

437
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: As you said, absolutely language and even an offensive song

438
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: is that to someone? To someone it's like I worked

439
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: with man Slayer and Slayer were a very controversial, aggressive man,

440
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: and the people who came to see them didn't come

441
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: to see them in filled with hate. They came to

442
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: see them filled with love. And for many of the

443
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: people in the audience maybe the only experience of love

444
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: they had was connecting over Slayer. You know, there were

445
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: people in the audience who seemed like other than this thing.

446
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: To devote themselves passionately to seemed like often hopeless people,

447
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: and for them to have something that they love was

448
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: beautiful to witness.

449
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by eight Sleep. I

450
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451
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452
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453
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454
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455
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457
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486
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Speaker 2: select countries in the EU and Australia. And that sounds

487
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: like one. I think you're spot on that that fear

488
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 2: of what will people think? What will people say? Art

489
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: versus audience almost and I feel that that has become

490
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: such a big challenge in today's world because there's so

491
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: much data available, social media available, and you get instant feedback, right, So,

492
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: I think in the past, a band would lock themselves

493
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: in a shed or whatever it may be and then

494
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: work on stuff and maybe their friends would listen or

495
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: they would listen, but it would take months before the

496
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: audience heard it. Today, you could literally record something in

497
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: three seconds, put it up and get instant feedback. And

498
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: so the feedback loop has got shorter, The time to

499
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: create something has got shorter. It's easier to publish, and

500
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 2: it's easier to get criticism, more feedback, and so in

501
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: that world, I find us looking so much at like, well,

502
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: what's the data saying of the trends of the pace

503
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: of music or the frequency of music or whatever. And

504
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 2: that's obviously only music, but you could apply that to

505
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: anything else. Do you think that that obsession in social media, music, movies,

506
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: of looking at it from a dative? Even in movies

507
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: now I find like we're just taking old IP and

508
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: remaking stuff. There's very little new ip. You just keep

509
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: seeing old ip finding its way back into TV and movies.

510
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: Do you say that that's creativity being stifled and is

511
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: hampering creativity?

512
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely? And the beauty of it is because so much

513
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 1: of what's being made is being made that way that

514
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: if we choose to make something not like that, it

515
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: really stands out. This book, for example, it goes against

516
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: all of the rules of publishing from the beginning. I

517
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: started the book eight years ago, and I met with

518
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: publishers eight years ago, told them this is my vision

519
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: for this book, and all of them said, that's not

520
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: the book anybody wants from you, that's not the book.

521
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: And I said, well, that's the book I want to write.

522
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: And well, but surely you'll tell personal stories and you'll

523
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: talk about Johnny Cash, you'll talk about It's like, no,

524
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that's not what this is. It's a different book. And

525
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: then I decided not to make a publishing deal then

526
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: because even the ones who said they would go along

527
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: with what my vision was, I could see that they

528
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: really were fantasizing a different book than this book. I

529
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: waited till the book was written and then said, do

530
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: you want to publish this book? Not the book you

531
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: think is the book that you want me to write,

532
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: but this is the book that I wrote, that I

533
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: wanted to write, and wrote, do you want to publish

534
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: this book? And then when they read it, they're like, oh.

535
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: Yes, that's brilliant. There isn't a love for so much,

536
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: just because I with my first book, I had I

537
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: had thought of the title when I was writing it

538
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: because it resonated to me, because it was playful but

539
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: also curious, and it felt true to me. It was

540
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: the biggest reason why I chosen the title. It just

541
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: it felt like it was truth. And so the title

542
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: I was proposing for my first book was Think like

543
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: a Monk and I'd lived as a monk for three years.

544
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: I'd studied under these incredible monks, and I wanted to

545
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: share what I'd learned from these masters who'd spent forty

546
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: fifty years living as monks. And so the book was

547
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: almost an offering to them in the way you're saying,

548
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: and a devotional act back to my teachers and guides.

549
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: And every publisher is like, Jay, you should just write

550
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: a book about like how to find your passion or

551
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: like you know, like what you love in life. And

552
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: I was just like, that's there's beauty in that. There's

553
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with the book about how to find your passion.

554
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: That's great, but that's not me, Like it's not my experience,

555
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: it's not my book. And remember fifteen out fourteen out

556
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: of seventeen imprints said no to that title, and we

557
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: still went with it. Yes, And I couldn't be more

558
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: happier because of that. But you're right, you can't control

559
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: what the audience wants, even if you played every perfect

560
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: metric in game. No, but we think we can. We

561
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: think there's a part of us. And that's what I

562
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: was going to ask you that almost one end is

563
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: saying I am too worried about what people think. But

564
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: the opposite almost is the ego of I can either

565
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: control everything perfectly so that this becomes the number one

566
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: chart topping song, or I'm right and I know everything.

567
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: Is that?

568
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: Do you see that as a block to creativity? And

569
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: how and how do you purify that?

570
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: I think that the goal is to get to this.

571
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: This is how I see it. I don't know what

572
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: other people are going to think. I can't know what

573
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: other people are going to think, but this is how

574
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: I see it, and I want to show you how

575
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: I see it. That's my purpose here on the planet

576
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: is to show you how I see it. And then

577
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: I want to see how you see it and where

578
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: do they line up and where are they different? And

579
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: that's how we make sense of the world. It's not

580
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: one story. We all have a story. We all have

581
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: something to say, and we can all learn from each other.

582
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: And it's fascinating. It's like there's there are the same

583
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: set of chords used in all the songs, yet new

584
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 1: songs keep coming. You know, there's someone who say all

585
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: the songs have been written there it keeps happening. How

586
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: do new jokes come up? They're all it's like they're

587
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: all the same, but then they're all different and how

588
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: we interpret it and are each and it comes from

589
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: each of our life experiences which are different. We each

590
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: have our own family origin story, We each have our

591
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: own places that we grew up, the things that we saw.

592
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: We could go and do the same thing together and

593
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: then get back and discuss what we saw and see

594
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: two completely different things. And it's not like one of

595
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: us is right and one of us is wrong. We're

596
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: just noticing different things. There's so many data points to

597
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: take in, and we each take in the ones that

598
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: speak to us.

599
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: So true. Yeah, you're reminding me of the famous words

600
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: of Mark Twain of history never repeats itself, but it

601
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: always rhymes. And that right that the idea of like yeah,

602
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: like the same song doesn't come back, but there's a rhyme.

603
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: There's there's the core, there's but it's still different. And

604
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: there's some beautiful I want to point out to everyone

605
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: because I really do want you to get this book.

606
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: Everyone's listening and watching right now, and there's I've like

607
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: Dougy it some pages that have some really beautiful moments.

608
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: I really like this because one thing I really aim

609
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: to do here on the podcast, but also in life

610
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: is to try and give people really practical, tiny steps

611
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: that they could take. And you you do that artfully

612
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: in this book. And there was this section here which

613
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: identifies why I brought up now because exactly what you

614
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: said breaking the sameness right, and we think there's the

615
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: sameness or completeness, and you give these beautiful examples of

616
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: things people can do in order to do that, and

617
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: I just want to touch on a couple of them please,

618
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: and would love to hear some examples from you that

619
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: where it worked. So I really like this one. Change

620
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: the context, so you say there are times when a

621
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: singer doesn't connect with a song, like an actor whose

622
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 2: line reading falls flat. It can be helpful to create

623
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 2: a new meaning or an additional backstory to a song's lyrics.

624
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: A love song might sound different if sung to a

625
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: long lost soul, may a partner of thirty years that

626
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: you don't get along with, a person you saw on

627
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: the street but never spoke to, or your mother. Have

628
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: you I was intrigued. Have you ever asked an artist

629
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: to sing to someone real in their life potentially to

630
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: get an emotion out.

631
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: Yes, there's the first example. That comes to mind is

632
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: we were doing a cover of the song the first

633
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: time ever I saw your face with Johnny Cash and

634
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: he read the lyrics and he said, I don't know

635
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: if I could sing this song. I don't really feel

636
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: these words. And I said, well, how about if it's

637
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: a devotional song to God? He's like, I could sing

638
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: that song. And when he changed it to being not

639
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: singing it to a woman, but singing it to God,

640
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: he was able to tap into the energy of the

641
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: song and he felt the vibration, he felt, he felt

642
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: the trueness to him in singing it.

643
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

644
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so he but everyone still thought the song

645
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: was about a woman.

646
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: It is. It is about a song. But there's a

647
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: long history of songs that are love songs that could

648
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: be to a woman or could be devotional. It's interesting

649
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: when songs walk this line, or when we think we

650
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: know what a song's about and we think it's about

651
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship, when it's really about their child. You

652
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: know that these devotional.

653
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: Song So, and I'm sharing this with all of you

654
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: listening and watching because I know where you're sitting there thinking, Jay,

655
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: I procrastinate, I overthink. I don't know how to focus,

656
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: which we'll get into all of that, but I want

657
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: to share these with you because I want you to

658
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: try them out in your own area in the world.

659
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: The work you do so change the environment. If we're

660
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: looking for a performance of a different nature, it can

661
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: help to change an element of the environment. Turning off

662
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: the lights and playing in the dark can create a

663
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: shift in consciousness and break the chain of sameness from

664
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: performance to performance. Other shifts we've experimented with include having

665
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: a singer hold the microphone instead of standing in front

666
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: of it, and recording early in the morning instead of

667
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: at night. To access a greater degree of variation. One

668
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: vocalist chose to hang upside down while singing. Could you

669
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: tell us some examples of those, because I find that again,

670
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 2: these are just they're so simple, but we don't do it.

671
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: We will sit at the same desk every day, banging

672
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: our head against the wall, with the same tabs open

673
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: on Google, going why can't I be creative? And it's

674
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: often these physical, tangible changes around us.

675
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it happened in the studio. It's not

676
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: uncommon if we've played a song three or four or

677
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: five or six times and it just feels like it's

678
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: not getting better, or we've reached a certain peak and

679
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: it's really not all it could be. But then it

680
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: starts not being as good. Usually, when that happens, as

681
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: soon as you reach whatever peak you're at and it

682
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: starts coming down, we usually stop playing the song. But

683
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: one thing we've done in the past also would be

684
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: again changing the contest. Turning the lights off in the

685
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: studio is it changes everything. It's not take seven, it's

686
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: the first take in the dark, and it changes. It changes.

687
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: The first album I recorded with the Red Hot Chili

688
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: Peppers was there. I think it was their fifth album.

689
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: And the albums that they had done before they had

690
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: all done in traditional recording studios, and them they told

691
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: me that none of those were good experiences. So we

692
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: thought about what could we do for this experience to

693
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: make it the first different one instead of the fifth.

694
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: If the first four were bad, could have been the

695
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: first good one in the same environment, or we could

696
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: change the environment and it would be the first of

697
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: any kind. So we chose to rent this big house

698
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: not far from here and record in this mansion, and

699
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: that was very different than showing up to a recording

700
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: studio with people working in an office and other musicians

701
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: and other places. We had our whole own world that

702
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: we created, and some of the members of the band

703
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: didn't leave during the entire I don't know, six weeks

704
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: or two months. They never left the premises. They just

705
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: stayed there, slept there, eight there, work there, and never

706
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: left until it was done. Well.

707
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that one. An audience, this one makes sense,

708
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: but I think people need to do more. When an

709
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: artist on being in front of a crowd, we may

710
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: bring in several people to watch a session. Being observed

711
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: changes how an artist acts. Even if the audience consists

712
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 2: only on one person who isn't part of the project,

713
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: that can be enough. While some artists may overdo a

714
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: performance for an audience and others may hold back, most

715
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: tend to be more focused with someone else present. Even

716
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: if your art is nonperformative, such as writing or cooking,

717
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: it was still likely changed with an observer present. The

718
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 2: goal is to find the specific parameters in each case

719
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: that bring out your best I love the idea. I

720
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: had a few friends a few years ago. One of

721
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: their buddies wanted to become a stand up comic, but

722
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: he had no experience in stand up comedy. So they

723
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: threw him a stand up show in their backyard and

724
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: they were like fifteen of us present in the audience.

725
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: He got announced on the stage in front of an

726
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: audience that wasn't going to heckle or be the meanest

727
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: to him, and he got to practice and it was

728
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 2: just such a beautiful way to do that for your friends,

729
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: but to experience that. And I'm on tour at the moment,

730
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: this is my break period. But for my test, we

731
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: were practicing rehearsing in a small theater in Thousand Oaks,

732
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: And so what the theater said to us is they

733
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: could throw it out to their local audience members who

734
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: would have no clue who I was or what I

735
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: was doing, and they'd come along. Little did I know

736
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 2: that we'd have like fifty to one hundred people that

737
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: weekend watching the show just as a rehearsal. And it

738
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: was so useful to me before I went out, and

739
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: it was huge, like absolutely huge, So I loved that.

740
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: One I was listening to a story on the way here.

741
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast in the car and

742
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: it told the story about the Beatles that when the

743
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: Beatles were interviewed individually, they were all these thoughtful, interesting,

744
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: soulful people.

745
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 3: Wow.

746
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: But when they were interviewed, even two together, they became

747
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: sarcastic and never said much about about anything real and

748
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: was much more of a performative cool, like to look

749
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: cool in front of the other one. Wow. That just

750
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: being with each other changed the way that they appeared

751
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: in the world.

752
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: M Wow, Yeah, that group aspect is so interesting. You've

753
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: just spulked another thought for me that I think it

754
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: would be really interesting for people to hear you going

755
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: back to this. It's interesting again. Then, being on their

756
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: own allowed them to be more of their authentic, deeper

757
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: self to some degree, I guess. I think it was

758
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: in Bob Iger's book where he talked about how he

759
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: was saying that George Lucas, Spielberg, Tarantino and a bunch

760
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: of others used to almost have a movie mastermind where

761
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: they'd played their movies to each other before they went out,

762
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: and he was saying that that's how confident they felt

763
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: about their own work, because they were showing their competitors

764
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: their movies. Yes, but they weren't scared of anyone stealing

765
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: an idea or taking a concept because they were so

766
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: confident in who they were, and all their friends were

767
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: so confident in their styles. And we know that a

768
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: Tarantino movie versus a Spielberg movie has no similarities.

769
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: Yes, and in some ways that community we talk about

770
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: that in the book too, having a community of it

771
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be people who do the same kind

772
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: of art as you, but people who just taste you,

773
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: respect you, like what they do. They like what you do,

774
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: and being able to share your work back and forth

775
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: is a really great feeling.

776
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, how have you That's a really nice segue. How

777
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: is that? How has that affected how you've learned to

778
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: filter criticism and feedback because, again going back to the

779
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: world we live in today, because of that instant feedback loop,

780
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: you can have one hundred comments that are negative on

781
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: social media. Your song didn't make it. It's not as

782
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: big as the next album you have, the top ten

783
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 2: show you didn't make it. I think the way everything's

784
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 2: measured and broadcasted now can make criticism and feedback in

785
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 2: one sense, seem louder. Before you went into a room

786
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: and someone told you you weren't getting a new deal,

787
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 2: and no one knew today you didn't get a new deal.

788
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: And the whole world knows, and your fans know, and

789
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: the opposing fans know. It's messy. It's like, how have

790
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: you worked on that for yourself and the work you've done?

791
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: And even the artists that you work with, who I'm

792
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: guessing may be more sensitive to it, may not have

793
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: that natural confidence or groundedness in what it is. How

794
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: do you how and even people are listening today? How

795
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: do we think about feedback and criticism?

796
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: Most of the artists I work with don't read any

797
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: any criticism or reviews that they work good or bad.

798
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: Most some some do, and I would say the ones

799
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: who are the strongest in who they are can even

800
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: read a terrible review and laugh at it. And that

801
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: makes sense because when someone gives you criticism, it's telling

802
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: you as much about who they are as what you've made.

803
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: It's like we make things and then we make it

804
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: with one through our filter, our perspective, and then you

805
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: receive it through your filter with your perspective. So even

806
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: if we both like it, we probably don't like it

807
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: the same way for the same reasons. We all have

808
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: our own relationship to it. Everyone has their own relationship

809
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: to it. So any of these metrics of which is better,

810
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: like the idea of the Oscars or the Grammys, where

811
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: we're saying which album is better than another? It doesn't

812
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: make any sense to me because it's always apples and oranges.

813
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: If you have a Drake and Beyonce and you're deciding

814
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: which album's better, well, Drake's album is clearly a better

815
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: Drake album than Beyonce's album is, and Beyonce's album, I'm

816
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 1: sure is a much better Beyonce album album than Drake's

817
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: album is. But the idea that one's better than the other,

818
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: it makes no sense. Who has a better diary entry.

819
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: It's like it's if we are actually making these personal things,

820
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: you can't compare them or compete in any way with

821
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: anyone else. The only people who we can honestly compete

822
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: with is ourselves. Is like, is this the best I

823
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: can make today? Have I gone further than I've gone before?

824
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: That's all we can do. That's the only competition that

825
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: makes sense is continuing to evolve and push ourselves artistically

826
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: and not get complacent. Especially in success, it's easy to

827
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: get complacent. Once something works, it's like, I'll just keep

828
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 1: doing more of that. It ends up maybe one more

829
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: time you can get away with it, but once three

830
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: are similar, it stops being interesting.

831
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. And that comes back to

832
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: that sameness point that we always and I'm just addressing

833
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: things that I know all of you are thinking and

834
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: feeling right now, like or I'm assuming you are the

835
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: idea of Oh, Jay, there's already you know, when I

836
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: started making podcasts, I think there were like seven hundred

837
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: thousand podcasts in the world, and today there's like two

838
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: million plus maybe even more now. And that's in three years.

839
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: It's tripled. Since I started four years ago, it's tripled.

840
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: And so when I started, everyone's like, Jay, there's seven

841
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: hundred podcasts. You don't need another podcast too late, too late,

842
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: exactly too late. And then now everyone's like, oh my god,

843
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: there's two million podcasts, Like it's too late, and we

844
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: do that, we start again, using a metric to say

845
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: and you'll only feel that way if you're planning to

846
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: repeat what's already been done, Because if you're not planning

847
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: to repeat it, then you're one of one. You're not

848
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: one of two million or one of seven hundred thousand.

849
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: It's one of one because you're only bringing your own

850
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: essence out right, like just because every other podcast you

851
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 2: could be like, there's so many interview parks. There are

852
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: so many interview podcasts, that's true, and they're all different,

853
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: and they're all different exactly, you know. And we've got

854
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: introduced through your long term friend and my new mutual

855
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 2: friend Andrew Huberman, who's also been a guest on this podcast.

856
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 2: Is a phenomenal podcast. I love his podcast, but so

857
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: different to who I am, so different to what we do.

858
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: And then there's a million other friends that we have

859
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 2: that have shows. So the most common thing I hear

860
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: when it comes to creativity or it comes to tapping

861
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 2: into essences, distraction, overthinking, and procrastination, Like those words come

862
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: up from my community again and again and again. And

863
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: that's the kind of community listening I do like to

864
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: do where I'm like, well, what are people struggling with?

865
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: Because we're want to help, what are people's challenges? I

866
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: have to know from them what they think it is,

867
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: and then I'll also share in the way I do.

868
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: Have you or anyone you've ever worked with, ever dealt

869
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: with big bouts of procrastination or thinking? Yeah, and how

870
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: do you define it? Because I almost think.

871
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: I would say distraction and procrastination are related and different.

872
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: Procrastination is not a good one. Distraction can be Distraction

873
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: can be helpful. You can use distraction if you hold

874
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: a question to be solved and don't sit and think

875
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 1: and try to solve it, but go do something else

876
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: and go take a walk or go for a swim.

877
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: You'll find that it changes. It changes, and the distraction

878
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: of when you go for a walk and seeing oh,

879
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: look at that tree over there, look at those birds,

880
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: or whoa, that car came kind of close to me,

881
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: all of those things that living in the world, even

882
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: though it's not challenging in any real way, it's a

883
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: distraction that's using some part of your brain. Some part

884
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 1: of your brain is occupied with do I turn left

885
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: or do I turn right? Oh? Look at that thing

886
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: over there? What is it going to rain? These other

887
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: things are happening. That's different than just sitting in a

888
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: room looking at your life. Just those outside queues can

889
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: give you a way in to solve a problem that

890
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: you wouldn't solve if you were sitting and working on it.

891
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: For example, if we were now doing this podcast together

892
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: on a walk, it would be a very different podcast

893
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: than I was sitting here staring into each other's eyes,

894
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful idea I've had. There was a

895
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: period of time where I lost a whole bunch of weight,

896
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: and one of the things that I did as part

897
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: of that was I only did walking meetings. Before I

898
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: used to only do lunch meetings, So I switched the

899
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,479
Speaker 1: lunch meetings to walking meetings, and I would meet people

900
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica and we would walk, and the meetings

901
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: were so much better than the meetings either in a

902
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: restaurant or in an office. Everything shifted just because we

903
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: were moving, we were doing something, there were external stimuli.

904
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: Even though the external stimuli had nothing to do with

905
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: what we were doing, it changed. It was a change

906
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: in context that really did make the conversation much more interesting.

907
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: And there's also something about when you're walking, you're not

908
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: looking at each other, so it's easier to go into

909
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: your own thoughts when you're not looking at someone. So

910
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 1: it's very interesting, a great experiment. Lost a lot of weight,

911
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: and the meetings were the best they've ever Doten.

912
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. There's a

913
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 2: lot of working couple psychology that suggests that when couples argue,

914
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: they're usually sitting on opposite sides of a dining table.

915
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: And when you're sitting with something in between you, first

916
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 2: of all, I mean, here, we don't have anything, but

917
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 2: you have something in between you. It's already creating a distance.

918
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: And now you're working against each other yes, rather than

919
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: what you're saying is you're walking with each other, yes,

920
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: and you're looking off into the same directions. You're almost

921
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 2: creating a future, the idea that you're forward your future, forward,

922
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: your future facing.

923
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: It's funny my wife and I whenever we get to

924
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: a new table and we're sitting to eat, we always

925
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: say we look at where the chairs are, and one

926
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: of us will say cheek to cheek, and we tend

927
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,959
Speaker 1: to sit next to each other instead of across the cheek.

928
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. And that makes so much sense

929
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: with leadership meetings, creative meetings, and I love that. I love, love, love,

930
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: And this is why this book is so beautiful, because

931
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: it has so many really subtle points and the idea

932
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: of the difference between distraction and procrastination, yes, and how

933
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,479
Speaker 2: distraction can actually be healthy, and especially as you said,

934
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: when you hold a question or you you hold an

935
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: idea and you're just kind of toying with it. But

936
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 2: you might pick up a book, you might go for

937
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 2: a walk, you might whatever. You can do all these things,

938
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: but it's almost like you're using that time wisely to

939
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: come back.

940
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: And absolutely going for a drive is a great one. Yeah,

941
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: And just just paying attention to not crashing. Even though

942
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: we can drive essentially on autopilot. We're not thinking about

943
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: driving once we've been driving for a while, but just

944
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: driving ideas come. I know many musicians, singers who will

945
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: listen to the instrumental music in the car and then

946
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: sing along when they're driving because they're more free than

947
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: when they're sitting with a recorder. Yeah.

948
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, no, And it's

949
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: so interesting how we have so many we've also built

950
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 2: up again, going back to our conditioned beliefs, we've built

951
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: up a negative relationship with the word distraction. We've built

952
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: up a negative connotation around if I don't solve it

953
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: right now, sitting in this one place, then I'm never

954
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 2: going to figure it out. And the idea that actually

955
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: going on a walk, picking up something else. That's one

956
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I like having in my office

957
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: here in the studio, back in my home, everything's quite minimalist,

958
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 2: but I have a lot of little artifacts and little things,

959
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: and because I enjoy the kind of like stimulation and

960
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: the creative juices that start flowing if I get a

961
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: moment to just observe. And then sometimes I just want

962
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 2: to observe nature outside where I can just sit and

963
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 2: bask and almost bathe in nature, which I find to

964
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 2: be so useful. Because there was this incredible study from

965
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: MIT a few years ago where they tried to look

966
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: for who were their most creative innovative employees inside the

967
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: organized inside corporate organizations. And MIT was doing the study,

968
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: they found two sets of charts of types of employees,

969
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: employee and employee B. Employee A knew lots of people

970
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: that knew each other, and employee B knew lots of

971
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: people that didn't know each other. And they were looking

972
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: at which ones more creative, innovative and hence more imaginative

973
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 2: inside a company, and they found it was employee B

974
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 2: because employee A knew people who knew people who knew

975
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: them back any more circles closed closed circles that created

976
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: these echo chains. And you asked the same ten people

977
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: for advice, and employee b knew lots of random people

978
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: who had no connection to each other, and the point

979
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: was being made that if your circle, and that I

980
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: think applies to environment as much as it applies to people,

981
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: is more random and disconnected, you have more chance of

982
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: having an original, authentic or idea spark as opposed to

983
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: you surrounded by the four same people and you talk

984
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: about the same things absolutely, And that to me has

985
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: always been what I'm trying to do. It's like, I

986
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: want to know what the monks think, and I want

987
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: to know what Silicon Valley thinks, and I want to

988
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: know what music geniuses think, because that's there's something there.

989
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely A word you use in this book that I

990
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 2: want to touch on and that's why this came up

991
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: for me was submerge. And I loved it. When I

992
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: saw that word, I was just like, yes, Like I

993
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: love that. I have thought about that for so long,

994
00:54:54,760 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 2: submerging yourself. We've lost that ability to submerge. We don't

995
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: submerge ourselves much because we have so much of a

996
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: little How have you in this hyper connected world, working

997
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 2: with the most connected artists in the world, how are

998
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: you encouraged yourself and others to continue to submerge when

999
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: everyone's asking us to swim shallow.

1000
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: I think so many of the great artists do it naturally, can't.

1001
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 1: You can't help it. It's the obsessive nature of being

1002
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: really into something that once you start down a thread,

1003
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: you just keep pulling forever if you're interested. Many of

1004
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: the artists that are great at what they do are

1005
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: great at what they do for that very reason. They

1006
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: fall in love with this thing and then they just

1007
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: want to know everything they could possibly learn about it,

1008
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: and there are no distractions. I'm working on a project now,

1009
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: a documentary project with comedians, and one of the things

1010
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: that they talk about is their commitment, like when other

1011
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: people are doing things on the weekend, going out with

1012
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: their friends, going to perform every you know, every night

1013
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: that they can possibly go out and perform until they

1014
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: can get good at their craft. And this could be

1015
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: for a period of you know, ten years of just

1016
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: having bad performances, you know, having people not like what

1017
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: you do, like banging your head against the wall. But

1018
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: that obsession with breaking through. And when I say breaking through,

1019
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't mean breaking through to the audience. I mean

1020
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: breaking through with themselves to where they get passed all

1021
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: of the blocks and to be free in this moment

1022
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: in a way where they can really express their views

1023
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 1: and be heard and people can react. It's a fascinating thing.

1024
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: I just want to ask about being being a monk.

1025
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: Tell me about your experience.

1026
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: What would you like to know?

1027
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: How did you choose to do this first?

1028
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: I was born and raised in London, and when I

1029
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: was around eighteen years old, I started going to events

1030
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: in the city where speakers were invited to come and

1031
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 2: share their stories or journeys or successes or whatever it

1032
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 2: may have been. And this is obviously before podcasting and

1033
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 2: before YouTube, and so you actually went to events to

1034
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: hear people like yourself or anyone speak. And so I

1035
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: would go and listen and they'd be founders of companies,

1036
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: they'd be athletes, they'd be you know, musicians, people like

1037
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: that that would come to universities and colleges in London,

1038
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: and so I'd go and one of the nights I went,

1039
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: I was invited to hear a monk speak. And I

1040
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: was eighteen years old and my I didn't really have

1041
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: a perception of monkst like, I didn't really have any

1042
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: I'd seen saintly people and holy people coming from an

1043
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 2: Indian background, but I never really knew what monks were

1044
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: or what they did. And so I said to my friends,

1045
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: I didn't really want to go, but I said I'd

1046
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: only go if we went to a bar afterwards. That

1047
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: was my that was my state of consciousness, age eighteen.

1048
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: And my friends were very persuasive and convincing. They said,

1049
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: yeah it, we'll go. And so I went to this

1050
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: event kind of like not expecting anything, wanting to leave,

1051
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 2: and I was just completely flawed. This monk was from India,

1052
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: he was born and raised in India, a thick Indian acts,

1053
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: and he was wearing saffron robes. And there was nothing

1054
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: externally that I should or should have found it attractive

1055
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 2: about him as an eighteen year old guy. But his

1056
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: whole message, and it's that's why I smiled when you

1057
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: said it earlier, Like his whole message was that the

1058
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: greatest thing you can do in the world or greatness

1059
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: is to use your gifts in the service of God,

1060
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 2: and use your gifts in the service of humanity as

1061
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: a devotional act. And he was talking about how living

1062
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: in devotion and my eighteen year old self was just

1063
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: completely like mesmerized by that idea. I was just like,

1064
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 2: I've never heard this, Like everyone's been telling us how

1065
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 2: to be successful and how to start a business and

1066
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 2: how to launch a company and how to become number one,

1067
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: and it was like this guy was just saying that

1068
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: that wasn't it. And so I went up to him

1069
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: as you do after an event when you're blown away

1070
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: by a speaker, and I just said to him, I

1071
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: was like, I just want to follow you around, like

1072
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 2: I just want to spend time with you and learn

1073
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: from you and sit at your you know, sit at

1074
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 2: your feet and just take observe. And he said, well,

1075
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: I'm doing all these events in London this week, you

1076
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: can come. So I would go along. And then that

1077
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: turned into my during college. That turned into my summer

1078
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: and Christmas vacations being with him, and then when I graduated,

1079
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 2: I turned down my corporate job office and actually went

1080
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 2: and lived there for three years. And so it was

1081
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: like all these little steps up to like this very

1082
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: big decision. And so that's why it was just one

1083
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 2: person who I've just always been fascinated by people that

1084
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: you meet that can change the trajectory of your life.

1085
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 2: And the reason why I do this show is because

1086
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: I want to introduce people to people and thoughts that

1087
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 2: I think will change the trajectory of their life. Because

1088
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 2: I didn't ever want to be a monk. I didn't

1089
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: think i'd become a monk. I didn't crave to like.

1090
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't a part I saw for myself. But it

1091
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: became the best thing that ever happened to me at

1092
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 2: that time, and now I live in gratitude. But I

1093
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: also realized, so I always ask people who's your monk? Like,

1094
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: who's the person you need to me that you haven't

1095
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: met yet that could change your life.

1096
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: There's an example in the book of people say, you know,

1097
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a good artist, or you're either living as

1098
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: an I say, you're either living as an artist or

1099
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: you're not living as an artist. There's not you're not

1100
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: good at it or bad at it. It's like being

1101
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: a monk. You're either living as a monk or you're

1102
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: not living as a monk. You can't be a bad monk.

1103
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: If you're living as a monk, you're a monk.

1104
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1105
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, you've you've

1106
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 2: had so much even today, you know, And that's why

1107
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: I was excited to meet you in person, because you

1108
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: have such a spiritual journey and essence and just in

1109
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: spirit even in just your presence and what you talk about,

1110
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: the vocabulary you have that. Where did that get infused

1111
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: with the work you do? Like or is? Again? Has

1112
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 2: that always been there?

1113
01:00:59,400 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: Or what was?

1114
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: Georgia?

1115
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: I learned to meditate when I was fourteen, and that's

1116
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: turned into a big part of my life. I stopped

1117
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: meditating when I went to college, and then when I

1118
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: moved to California, I started again. And when I started again,

1119
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: I realized, oh, even though I hadn't done it for

1120
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: the last five years, a big part of who I

1121
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: am is because I did it when I did it.

1122
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: Had I not stopped, I wouldn't have recognized that. So

1123
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: stopping and starting was a very clear Wow, this this

1124
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: is a big part of how I see the world already,

1125
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: even with not doing it for the last five years.

1126
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: What type of meditation is in how gm im? Oh? Okay,

1127
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 2: it got it.

1128
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: I learned TM changed my life and since then I've

1129
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: learned for PASTAA and I do many different many different

1130
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: practices and breathing practices and Taichi and many different meditative practices.

1131
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: I often come back to TM, maybe because it was

1132
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: first and it's beautiful.

1133
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, simple and beautiful, yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting

1134
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: to me and meditation just seems to be. But there

1135
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 2: was definitely a generation where meditation became really prominent in

1136
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 2: the lives of so many especially so many people today

1137
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 2: that you meet that are doing You know, Ray Dario

1138
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 2: has been on the podcast a million times and again

1139
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: he talks about TM as being such a big part

1140
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: of his financial success in terms of making wise financial

1141
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: investment decisions, and he is a special human as well.

1142
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 2: I feel like that resurgence is back now where there's

1143
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: so much more talk about breath work and meditation. And

1144
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 2: if you had any words of wisdom or insight for

1145
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: anyone who's trying it, experimenting, what would you suggest to them,

1146
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: as someone who's done it for so long, had breaks

1147
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 2: found usefulness in it? Are there any things that come

1148
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: to your heart or for front of you.

1149
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: The first thing that comes up, there's a beautiful book

1150
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: called Wherever You Go, There You Are. I love that book.

1151
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: I had meditated a long period of time before I

1152
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: read it, but I remember reading it feeling like this

1153
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: is the best both introduction to meditation and reminder of

1154
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: the power of meditation regardless of where you are in

1155
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: your meditative journey. So I would recommend that book as

1156
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: a as a way in and find the practice that

1157
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: works for you. And I've also used like yoga nidra

1158
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: or different guided meditations which also are beautiful and helpful. Yeah.

1159
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I used a load of Yoga Nidra when I

1160
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 2: had my harnia surgery. I was like, I couldn't get

1161
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: a sleep because of the paid and so yoga needra

1162
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 2: is beautiful if you have trouble sleeping. Everyone Yogendra is

1163
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 2: like really special. You strike me as someone who appreciates

1164
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: growth and inner work and self work through through at

1165
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: least what you've said today and shared today and the

1166
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: thoughts in the book. And I was wondering, what do

1167
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: you feel has been the hardest thing that you've worked

1168
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,439
Speaker 2: on internally or the most challenging thing that you've worked

1169
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 2: on internally? You said you can only compete with ourselves artistically,

1170
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 2: but internally, what has been the greatest challenge that you've

1171
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 2: worked on or all working on now?

1172
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: No, I would say losing weight was the biggest challenge

1173
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: of my life. I weighed three hundred and eighteen pounds

1174
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: at one point, and I was overweight my entire life,

1175
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: and I tried everything from the beginning. I went to

1176
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: weight watchers meetings with my mom, you know, like my

1177
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: whole life was dealing with weight issues and finally just

1178
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: honestly getting the right information because I would do whatever

1179
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: was recommended and nothing worked. At one point in time,

1180
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: I had a performance coach living at my house for

1181
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: two years who watched everything I ate and got me

1182
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: to exercise and change my life for the I got

1183
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: so much healthier with his help. And he said, in

1184
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: the last two years, I've watched everything you've done, ninety

1185
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: nine out of one hundred people would have shared one

1186
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: hundred pounds, and for some reason, it just the weight

1187
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: just doesn't come off. His just scratching his head. I

1188
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: don't understand it must be, you know, must be something else.

1189
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: And then finally I saw a nutritionist at UCLA, and

1190
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: I hadn't by this point, I believed nothing would change

1191
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: the situation. My mom was obese, my mom was in

1192
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: a wheelchair. I just assumed that that was the way

1193
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: it was. It was a genetic thing I assumed, and

1194
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: I went to see a guy at UCLA based on

1195
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: a mentor friend of mine saying, I really want you

1196
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: to see this guy. And I was sure it wouldn't

1197
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: work because I'd tried everything and nothing worked. So but

1198
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: I loved this person who recommended me to go. He

1199
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: was one of my great mentors, recently passed away. His

1200
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: name was Mo Austin, a great, great man. He worked

1201
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: for Frank Sinatra and signed Jimmy Hendrix and signed the

1202
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: sex Pistols and unbelievable person, unbelievable human being. And he

1203
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: was the one who got me to see this nutritionists

1204
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: at UCLA. He said, just go to see this guy.

1205
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: Go to see the guy that I send you to,

1206
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: and do whatever he said. And I did, and I

1207
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,479
Speaker 1: lost like one hundred and fortund one hundred and thirty

1208
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: five pounds in fourteen months. But that was probably the

1209
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: most radical, just because it was a lifelong issue and

1210
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: I believed it couldn't change eventually. I believed it couldn't

1211
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: change because I tried everything, and it was In some ways,

1212
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: this is interesting. The moral of the story is through

1213
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: giving up, I turned myself over to this nutritionist. I

1214
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: didn't do what I thought was right. I did what

1215
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: he thought was right, and what he suggested sounded crazy

1216
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: to me, but I did what he thought was right

1217
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: and it worked and the same like I was, I've

1218
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: never exercised in my life. And then I started hanging

1219
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: out with Larrd Hamilton and these incredible athletes because when

1220
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: I lost a bunch of weight, they invited me to

1221
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: start training with them, and I just wanted to be

1222
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: around them because they're such interesting people. Like I like

1223
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: being around people who are good at what they're good at,

1224
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: especially when what they're good at is different than what

1225
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm good at. It's just interesting the way they see

1226
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,959
Speaker 1: the world. So I got to hang out with these

1227
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: incredible athletes and through giving myself to them of doing

1228
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: what they said. You know, I first day when I

1229
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: couldn't do one push up and then and I say

1230
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: I can't do it, don't say you can't do it

1231
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: so you haven't done it yet. And then they, you know,

1232
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: train me where I could do one hundred consecutive push

1233
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: ups like crazy things. Yeah.

1234
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you reminded me of Thomas Edison's statement of when

1235
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: you feel you've exhausted all options, remember this, you haven't,

1236
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's so interesting with health specifically, it's

1237
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 2: it's fascinating that you chose that. But I think that's

1238
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: so true where you think you're doing everything right, and

1239
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: I've eve experienced that with myself as well, especially with

1240
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 2: my gut and inflammation, where I was like I was

1241
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: doing everything right, I'm living a healthy life and still

1242
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 2: having this, and then again passing myself over to an

1243
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: amazing coach who's just told me exactly what I need

1244
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 2: to eat, and all of a suddn you feel better

1245
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 2: and it's almost like magic when it happened.

1246
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: Yes, but it's also fighting the right coach because you

1247
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: could see ten other coaches and do what they say

1248
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: and it doesn't work. Yeah, it's we're so different. That's

1249
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: another thing, the idea that one size fits all. It's

1250
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: like there is no one answer for anyone. We have

1251
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: to find our path. You could have seen probably many

1252
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: different monks and not had the experience you had. It

1253
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: was that monk spoke to you. I remember the first

1254
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: time I saw Ramdas speak, I felt like this is

1255
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: the first spiritual teacher that really speaks to me. And

1256
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: the next one was Tick, not Han. When I saw

1257
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: tick not Han speak. I was so I felt so

1258
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: much peace in my body hearing him speak that I

1259
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 1: couldn't even hear what he was saying. I went into

1260
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: a trance in his presence. And this is with two

1261
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: thousand people, you know, in a room of two thousand people.

1262
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: He stepped out on stage and I felt like I

1263
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: was going to pass out. YEA, that's how much PC carried.

1264
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: So seeing these things, seeing these incredible teachers and these

1265
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: deep souls and getting inspired and learning from them all

1266
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 1: is that's the work. Yeah.

1267
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you're right that finding our mentors, our guides,

1268
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 2: our teachers is such a or people that inspire you

1269
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 2: is such a such a big part of life. And

1270
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,799
Speaker 2: I've found studying their stories and studying their their life

1271
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 2: it gives so much texture to your own as well.

1272
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 2: And you know when when you look at passing these

1273
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 2: things on, when you look at passing, you know, as

1274
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 2: you start this book by talking about how you're like,

1275
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 2: these aren't facts, them my thoughts and hopefully they they

1276
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 2: help and support you when you think about giving this,

1277
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 2: I can imagine a lot of young parents who are

1278
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: listening thinking, well, how do I help my child tap

1279
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 2: into their creativity. How do I he help even if

1280
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 2: it's not your child, but my friend, my family member.

1281
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 2: What are what have you found helpful ways in being

1282
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 2: a proponent of ideas that you believe in? Have you

1283
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: found specific things to be more authentic and useful and

1284
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 2: hence translate well.

1285
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 1: I think in general people don't like to be told

1286
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: what to do. So the best way that you can

1287
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: inspire someone to do something is through the way that

1288
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: you carry yourself. And if you act in a creative

1289
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: way in the world and you do it to the

1290
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 1: best of your ability, and if someone else recognizes it,

1291
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: it might inspire them to do the same. So I

1292
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: think it's hard to teach someone something that we don't practice.

1293
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: We have to practice it.

1294
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the hardest part. Yeah, but it's also the

1295
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 3: most fun. It's like ye, and it's our purpose. It's

1296
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 3: the reason where on this planet is to do this work,

1297
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 3: to do our work, whatever that is, whatever our part is,

1298
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 3: to play our part in this giant symphony.

1299
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 2: When you're trying to find your part, that's the part

1300
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 2: I think that confuses or concerns so many peop people

1301
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 2: because so many parts today have become barcodes or conveyor belts,

1302
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: and there's so many of you doing your part. It

1303
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 2: may feel sometimes where it's like, well, I work in

1304
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: a company where we all do the same thing, Like

1305
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 2: what is my part? I think there's such a We've

1306
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 2: been talking about originality the whole time, but I think

1307
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 2: so many people feel like what they do is so

1308
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 2: so much of a commodity. It's not original when someone

1309
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 2: searching for that purpose. As you said, your purpose is

1310
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 2: to play your part, which I think is beautiful, and

1311
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. A few years ago, I really

1312
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 2: came to the conclusion. I realized that what I do

1313
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 2: is not better than anyone or worse than anyone. It's

1314
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 2: not early than anyone or later than anyone. It's not

1315
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 2: for anyone or not for anyone. It's it is just

1316
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 2: what I'm meant to do. It's just my role. And

1317
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 2: that's such a liberating place to live for us. Absolutely,

1318
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 2: But it's almost feels like today there's so much pressure

1319
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 2: for people to pursue that will find that yes, so

1320
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 2: they either don't find it or they get scared to

1321
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 2: look for it. What have you found to be useful

1322
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 2: on that?

1323
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say that giving the example, you

1324
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: gave of the cookie cutter work. Maybe your purpose in

1325
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: life isn't related to your job. Maybe your job is

1326
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: your job, and the job is the thing that supports you,

1327
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,759
Speaker 1: and then the rest of your waking hours are devoted

1328
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: to your purpose, whatever that is.

1329
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of us are trying to make

1330
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 2: it the same thing.

1331
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's beautiful when it happens, but it doesn't

1332
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 1: always happen, and it's out of our control. Also, we

1333
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: can decide. I would say, if you need to have

1334
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: a job to support yourself, that's great, that's a noble

1335
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: thing to do. And follow your dreams, but I'm not

1336
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: saying they're one thing. They don't have to be one thing,

1337
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: And don't let following your dreams undermine your ability to

1338
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,480
Speaker 1: support yourself. It could do could actually do the opposite.

1339
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: If you decide I want to be a comedian and

1340
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm putting all my eggs in the comedian basket and

1341
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a comedian, the pressure of having

1342
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: to support support yourself will change you as a comedian,

1343
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: not for the better. You want the stability of being

1344
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 1: able to take care of yourself in the world, to

1345
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: be free to do whatever your passion is whatever it is, fishing,

1346
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:28,759
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is.

1347
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's so true that I think the scarcity

1348
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 2: ruins the art, right, it's the abundance of I did

1349
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 2: my day job. I'm now safe and secure. I could

1350
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:44,640
Speaker 2: be autistic as opposed to sometimes Actually, I'm going to

1351
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 2: debate my own statement, because sometimes it also feels like

1352
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 2: the pain is the pain of trying to do something

1353
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 2: is what cbo as well. But yeah, I mean, I'm but.

1354
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: But it could be there's pain in it anyway.

1355
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 2: There's pain anyway.

1356
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: There's pain in you know, getting up in front of

1357
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,839
Speaker 1: people and them not laughing is painful.

1358
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's pain in it anyway. Yeah, there's plain

1359
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: in it anyway.

1360
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: If that means you also can eat, I don't know

1361
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: if that makes it less more or less painful.

1362
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's almost like giving ourselves permission to

1363
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 2: make our like I feel like there's a moment where

1364
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 2: you go, now I'm worthy almost. But what you're saying

1365
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 2: is you are always worthy because it's who you are.

1366
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: Yes, You're always worthy, It's who you are.

1367
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think we don't feel worthy of anything?

1368
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 2: Not just making it up, but so many of us,

1369
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 2: I think, feel a sense of like we're not worthy

1370
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 2: to do what we love, We're not worthy to share

1371
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 2: our purpose or our passion. There's a sense of we

1372
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 2: don't want to give us anything.

1373
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 1: I think there's a mythology that the people who make

1374
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: things that we love are special people, and that we

1375
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: think that they're you know, the people on Mount Olympus,

1376
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: and they are these magic people who are geniuses. And

1377
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: then there's the rest of us, and that's not the case.

1378
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: It's like, we're all just people. We're all doing our best.

1379
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 1: We all are good at some things, not good at

1380
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: other things. We're humans, and sometimes we find a way

1381
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 1: to make something beautiful. But that's it. No, do you

1382
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean, There's no there are no special people. Really,

1383
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 1: we're all special.

1384
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And everyone please listen to that again

1385
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 2: and again and again, because it's that's the mess of

1386
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: like that person's gifted, this special, they did something unique,

1387
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 2: and I promise you if you knew them twenty years ago,

1388
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 2: you wouldn't think that. No, but you just met them

1389
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 2: at this precipice of their life. They don't think so,

1390
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 2: they don't think that, yeah, or if they do think

1391
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 2: so their art will suffer. Yeah, the ones who believe

1392
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 2: the hype. Yeah yeah, How did you respond? What was

1393
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 2: your first time you felt and even if maybe you

1394
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 2: didn't even allow yourself to feel it, but what was

1395
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 2: the first time you experienced success? And how did you

1396
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 2: respond to it? Because I hear so many people say

1397
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 2: I just wanted to repeat it right, and that again

1398
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: getting coined that same When was the first time you experienced,

1399
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 2: maybe even felt successful and how did you respond.

1400
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: To My first memory of outward success came when the

1401
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: first Beastie Boys album, Licensed to Ill was the number

1402
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,719
Speaker 1: one album in the country, and I got a call

1403
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: from a person who I worked with, saying, you have

1404
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: the number one album. I only know this because I

1405
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 1: remember the phone call. Had the call not happened, I

1406
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't I would have no idea how I felt. And

1407
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: the call came, how do you feel you have the

1408
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: number one album in the country, And I remember saying,

1409
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: I've never been more unhappy in my life. And I

1410
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: think we mistakenly think some kind of outward success is

1411
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: going to change something in us, and it does not.

1412
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 1: It may make life more comfortable, but it doesn't change

1413
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: who we are. And any hole in ourselves that were

1414
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: hoping to fill does not get filled. And if you

1415
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 1: spend let's say you spend twenty years of your life

1416
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: working towards a goal that's going to solve everything, and

1417
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 1: then you finally achieve what you've been trying to do

1418
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 1: for twenty years toiling away, I won't have any fun

1419
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: because I'm working for twenty years for this end. And

1420
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: then you get that end and nothing changes. That's when

1421
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 1: you get hopeless. So it's not uncommon to see very

1422
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: successful artists who are very unhappy in life because they're

1423
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: working towards this the thing that's going to make them

1424
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 1: feel better, and it does not make them feel better.

1425
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got to meet many very successful business people.

1426
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: You have a billionaire people, very few of them are happy,

1427
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: very few, and they've reached there, they've accomplished their dreams

1428
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: and are unhappy because we don't know what we want,

1429
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:02,839
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know what's going to make us happy.

1430
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: We're trying to fill something that maybe can't be filled

1431
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 1: through material or cultural success, public success. It's something else.

1432
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: It's some internal thing.

1433
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 2: What was it that at that time that but.

1434
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: You I don't know. I don't know. I think it

1435
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,480
Speaker 1: was more. I think it was more just the reality

1436
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:27,759
Speaker 1: of well, that doesn't matter at all, and it's always

1437
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: been I'll say, I like when people like the things

1438
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: I make, of course, and it changes nothing, you know,

1439
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 1: it changes nothing. Yeah.

1440
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I found that there were only a few things

1441
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 2: through my monk experience that helped me realize what made

1442
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 2: a difference. One was something we're experiencing today, which I

1443
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 2: really feel from you and Homer, who's always been here,

1444
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 2: he's filmed every episode pretty much we've done for the

1445
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 2: past gods how long now, but that there was a

1446
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 2: stillness and a quiet and a presence. And so the

1447
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: first thing was presence. That the idea that presence a

1448
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 2: big part of joy and happiness and just being able

1449
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 2: to actually be here right now in the way you

1450
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 2: said your one of your favorite books was where you go,

1451
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 2: there you are. Wherever you go there.

1452
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:13,679
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1453
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, wherever you go, there you are presence.

1454
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 2: The other one is learning and growth, the idea that

1455
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 2: we're growing, we're evolving, we're learning, there is some some

1456
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 2: kind of stimulation of evolution. We all need to evolve.

1457
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 2: The third one was achievement. There was a sense of achievement,

1458
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: but I think today's sense of achievement has become about

1459
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 2: an external metric as opposed to do we even think

1460
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 2: that's worthy of achieving or pursuing. And then the fourth,

1461
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 2: which to me sometimes is the most important, is the

1462
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: service element, the act, the offering that we were working

1463
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 2: always in devotion. And those were like four really simple

1464
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 2: things that I think have always our form part of

1465
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 2: the mocktail of joy, happiness, success. When you said something

1466
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 2: really beautiful there you said the first time you fell

1467
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 2: out with success. When was the first time you experienced

1468
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 2: in with success well or felt that? Or is that

1469
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 2: something that's constantly.

1470
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: That's something probably making something that it would have been

1471
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: one of the very first records I ever made, the

1472
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: experience in the studio of hearing something that I haven't

1473
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: heard before, getting excited by it, and then maybe going

1474
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: out and hearing it in the club, you know, like

1475
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: even getting the club to play it just so I

1476
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,679
Speaker 1: could hear it in the club. That experience of like, wow,

1477
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: there it is. Or the first time you hear something

1478
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 1: that you make on the radio, it's very exciting, not

1479
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 1: because of what it means, but just I spent my

1480
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: whole life listening to music on the radio and now

1481
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: there's something I made on the radio. I still have

1482
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: this experience on a semi regular basis, just out in

1483
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: the world. I'll be somewhere and in a coffee shop

1484
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,600
Speaker 1: and a song come on that I produced, and the

1485
01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 1: feeling is like, wow, can you believe it's just out

1486
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: there like that? I remember, I remember, I could choke

1487
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 1: myself up. I can remember being in the room, what

1488
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 1: we were doing, like, and now it's playing here. How

1489
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,640
Speaker 1: crazy is the world? I went to WrestleMania yesterday and

1490
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 1: a song I produced was played at WrestleMania. I wasn't

1491
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 1: expecting it. I wasn't expecting it. It's like, wow, WrestleMania,

1492
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:18,759
Speaker 1: it's crazy.

1493
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you still feel that today, that's what.

1494
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: It's just so wild. Yeah, you can't believe it. Yeah,

1495
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 1: it's crazy.

1496
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 2: It's magic that I love. I love that seeing like

1497
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: how long have you done this?

1498
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: Now?

1499
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 2: Like how long have you done what you do?

1500
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: Thirty five years?

1501
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like there was I got to go to I've

1502
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 2: been a Manchester United support of my whole life, and

1503
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 2: I got to go again. Recently. I have a really

1504
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 2: wonderful relationship with the club and I went to watch

1505
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,679
Speaker 2: a game recently when I was back in England and

1506
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 2: it was the first time I got to meet legendary

1507
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,799
Speaker 2: manager Sir Alex Ferguson, and he's the most decorated manager

1508
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 2: in Premier League history and United It's longest standing manager

1509
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 2: and you know, with the greats, and I got to

1510
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 2: meet him for the first time and we're just hanging

1511
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 2: out and talking and having lunch before the before the game.

1512
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 2: And what I loved what you were saying about you

1513
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: love watching people with greatness. What I loved about him

1514
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 2: was he was talking about football like a soccer for

1515
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,719
Speaker 2: those who but he was talking about football like a fan.

1516
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: Yes still yes.

1517
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 2: Like I was like, I was like, Sir Alex, you

1518
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 2: gave me the best memories of my childhood. I was

1519
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 2: naming all these games that they'd won. And I knew

1520
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 2: he knew that. It's like me telling you my favorite

1521
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 2: songs you've worked on. I know you know them, but

1522
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 2: I had to tell him for my sake, and he

1523
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 2: was like living each game with me as it was

1524
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 2: the first and I was like, how are you still

1525
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 2: you know? How is it that it's still so fresh?

1526
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 2: And I guess same question to you like, how is

1527
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 2: it still so fresh that a WrestleMania a song surprises

1528
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 2: you and you still get that childlike like.

1529
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: Because it doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense.

1530
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: I remember the ordinary situation that it came out of.

1531
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:03,560
Speaker 1: I remember the studio in It was one of the

1532
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: first times I ever came to California. I remember it's

1533
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: not a studio now, it's a flower shop where the

1534
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: studio used to be off of Los Cienna Boulevard, and

1535
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 1: it was this tiny little studio and I remember being

1536
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 1: in this tiny little room and one of the first

1537
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: times in California, and what a fun experience it was

1538
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 1: making the record, how cool it was, and that now, however,

1539
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: many years later, twenty five years later, seeing a stadium

1540
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: of eighty thousand people and the song comes on unexpectedly,

1541
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: it's just bizarre. It's bizarre because I know the modest

1542
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 1: beginnings of all of these and it's just regular people

1543
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 1: like you and me showing up somewhere and making something

1544
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:45,759
Speaker 1: that we think is cool. It's unbelievable that it has

1545
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 1: some life that goes on. Yeah, it's crazy, but.

1546
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 2: I love that because what I'm hearing you say that

1547
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 2: is like you took notes like there were mental notes

1548
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 2: of like that moment we went in that like there's

1549
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 2: a gratitude and there's a perspective of It wasn't just

1550
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 2: as you've just laid out. It wasn't just about having

1551
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,759
Speaker 2: a record on the radio. It was all those minute,

1552
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:14,679
Speaker 2: small moments of discovery and of intrigue and curiosity, which

1553
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 2: which you made a note of somewhere in your subconscious

1554
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 2: so that you then recall and live through when you

1555
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 2: hear that song in that moment, you're not living there

1556
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 2: just listening to a song at WrestleMania or on the

1557
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 2: radio or number one. It's that you're living through all

1558
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 2: those miniature moments that created it.

1559
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I never listened back to music that I

1560
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 1: work on, so when I do hear it out in

1561
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 1: the wild, it's it's funny. It's like, wow, look it's

1562
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:43,719
Speaker 1: still there. Crazy.

1563
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 2: Is there a reason you don't listen to it?

1564
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: As Because I'm always making something new, I've had no

1565
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: reason to go back. Yeah.

1566
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 2: You never even feel a sense of nostalgia or.

1567
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 1: Like a no, unless unless I'm working with an artist

1568
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: and there's an example that comes up where I think, oh,

1569
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: we did something like this, a long time time ago.

1570
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: This might listen to this and see if this scuse

1571
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 1: me any inspiration. Yeah, so more as a tool, but

1572
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 1: I would do the same for something I didn't make.

1573
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,599
Speaker 1: You know, it would be let's listen to this Stev

1574
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Wonder song because we maybe will learn something same.

1575
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. There's there's a beautiful chapter's

1576
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 2: book that I want to talk about, which is all

1577
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 2: about memories and subconscious and I felt that you talk

1578
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 2: about this idea of larger intelligence and tapping into and

1579
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 2: even making almost journaling about dreams, which I found was

1580
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 2: something that I'm definitely going to practically take on. So

1581
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,560
Speaker 2: I've never journaled about dreams. I know I dream, and

1582
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 2: there's times when I forget, and there's times when I remember,

1583
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,960
Speaker 2: and sometimes I'll tell someone sometimes I won't. And I

1584
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,679
Speaker 2: when I read you say that you actually wrote about

1585
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 2: dreams and journaled about dudes, I was like, I'm going

1586
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 2: to start doing that now. So that's something you've directly

1587
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 2: impacted me to do as a practical thing, because I

1588
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 2: feel like I've had fascinating dreams in the past, I've

1589
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 2: forgotten it's too messy.

1590
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 1: And they go and they a dissipate me very quickly.

1591
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 2: So quickly, so quick And that's when I was reading that.

1592
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 2: Bo I was like, Okay, I need to hold onto these.

1593
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 1: So some of the tricks I talked to some degree

1594
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:09,640
Speaker 1: in the book, but I just touch on it in

1595
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: the book. There's so much to talk about. But when

1596
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: you wake up, you don't move at all because the

1597
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 1: way the dream works, it's a chemical reaction in your brain.

1598
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 1: So it's also good to know if you wake up

1599
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: from a scary dream and you don't want to think

1600
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: about it, if you just shake your head around, it'll

1601
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: be gone. So you keep pen and paper right next

1602
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: to your bed, and the minute you wake up, you

1603
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:35,600
Speaker 1: grab the pen and paper, moving as little as possible,

1604
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 1: and just start writing. And even if you only remember

1605
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 1: I remember there's a part in the dream where this happens.

1606
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: Write the part you remember, and you'll see through the

1607
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 1: process of writing, more of the dream will appear. It's

1608
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: you don't even when you wake up, you don't. You

1609
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: won't remember as much of it as you know. But

1610
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: once you start writing, you can start tapping into more.

1611
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 1: Oh and before that, this happened, and then this after that,

1612
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: and you'll start noticing more details, and the more you

1613
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: practice it, the better you get at it. So I

1614
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 1: did that for a period of time, and at the

1615
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 1: time the dreams made no sense. They were just these

1616
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: abstract you know, Salvador Dolly paintings, and just went on abstract.

1617
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: I have no idea, strange, strange dreams, no idea what

1618
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: they are. And then years later I found that journal

1619
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 1: and I read it, and when they were happening, I

1620
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 1: thought every dream every night was completely different, and none

1621
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 1: of them more about anything I understood. And years later,

1622
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: when I looked back at it, all the dreams were

1623
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 1: about the same thing, and they all were. It was

1624
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: so clear what my subconscious was telling me. I don't

1625
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:48,599
Speaker 1: remember what it was, because it was probably twenty some

1626
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 1: odd years ago, but I remember being shocked by, Oh,

1627
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: this didn't make I was too close to it to

1628
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: understand it. I was too close, and with a little

1629
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 1: bit of distance you can see what it is. Yeah,

1630
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,559
Speaker 1: And it's also interesting to see how your subconscious works,

1631
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 1: how it how your subconscious abstracts reality to show it

1632
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 1: to us in a way that's intriguing and interesting but

1633
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: not obvious. It's very beautiful.

1634
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 2: The reason why I love that so much is. I

1635
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 2: even had to retract the immediate question that came into

1636
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 2: my mind, and I retracted it because and I'll tell

1637
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 2: everyone what it is, but I retracted it because I

1638
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 2: just love the act of observing and being present with

1639
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:39,320
Speaker 2: your dream as you're showing us how to do. And

1640
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 2: the modern day question is, well, what's the benefit of that?

1641
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 2: Like why would you do that? And and when I

1642
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 2: was asking in my head, I was like, if I

1643
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 2: just listened to you, and I'm listening to you, and

1644
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 2: I remember reading what I read, and I'm thinking, the

1645
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 2: benefit is just the act of observing and just being

1646
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 2: there and being and then, like you said, being able

1647
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: to then look back potentially and potentially if you maybe not,

1648
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: maybe it is to see if there are connections and

1649
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 2: the subconscious You're so right, is is speaking to us

1650
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:11,120
Speaker 2: in almost such a compassionate, artful way. Yes, without telling

1651
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 2: you on the nose, but.

1652
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 1: It's an important point. Don't do things just because you

1653
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 1: think you're going to get something for it. That's not

1654
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: why we do things. Do what's interesting to you, follow

1655
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 1: what's interesting. Don't worry about the outcome. Yeah, we don't know,

1656
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,759
Speaker 1: We can't predict the outcome. We can never predict the outcome.

1657
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 1: Follow your own inner guide. It directs us. It might

1658
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: not make sense, might not make sense to us, might

1659
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 1: not make sense anyone else. Certainly won't make sense anyone else.

1660
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 1: But it might not even make sense to us. And

1661
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 1: that's okay. It's fine. Listen to yourself. Why is it

1662
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 1: telling you this? Why is it telling you this? I

1663
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:55,799
Speaker 1: mentioned my heart surgery earlier. My son was born eighteen

1664
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:57,960
Speaker 1: months before the heart surgery. I didn't know about the

1665
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 1: heart issue. I knew about the heart issue and that

1666
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 1: it was something I was born with, but I didn't

1667
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 1: know that it was anything I would need to deal with.

1668
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:06,679
Speaker 1: And a friend of mine said, when my son was born,

1669
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 1: you're going to have a whole lot of energy, and

1670
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 1: your son is going to want his mom. So you're

1671
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 1: going to have all this energy and nothing to do

1672
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: with it. So pick something interesting to you or that

1673
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:21,600
Speaker 1: you want to do, or something you want to accomplish,

1674
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: because you're going to have all this extra energy with

1675
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 1: nowhere to put it, because you're going to want it

1676
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 1: to go to your son, but he's not going to

1677
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 1: want that. He's going to be taken. So I decided

1678
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 1: I want to learn deadlifts heavy deadlifts. The only exercise

1679
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 1: experience I had was with Lard Hamilton, and we didn't

1680
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 1: do any formal exercises like that. We did a lot

1681
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 1: of weight training, but it was more balance and coordination

1682
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 1: oriented and super fun, really interesting and challenging as challenging

1683
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: mentally as it was physically. Usually you'd cognitively not be

1684
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 1: able to do it before you physically couldn't do it,

1685
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 1: which was fascinating to me too. It was never like

1686
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 1: sitting on a treadmill looking at the TV. It was

1687
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 1: always if you were not paying full attention to everything

1688
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:12,640
Speaker 1: you were doing, you'd probably get hurt. So really you're focused,

1689
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 1: and I like focusing on things, so it was fun.

1690
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: So then I thought, okay, learning like proper form Olympic deadlifting,

1691
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:24,719
Speaker 1: and I'm doing the Olympic deadlifting. And as the weights

1692
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 1: got heavier, I realized I had this anxiety before a lift.

1693
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 1: It didn't make sense to me, and even to the

1694
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: point where I talked to the trainer and I said,

1695
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: something doesn't make sense. I'm gonna pick up this weight

1696
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 1: and one of two things is going to happen. The

1697
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 1: weight will go off the ground or the weight will

1698
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: not go off the ground. If the weight doesn't go

1699
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 1: off the ground, we'll take off five pounds and then

1700
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:52,560
Speaker 1: I'll try it again. What if it goes off the

1701
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: ground or doesn't go off the ground. I don't care.

1702
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 1: I don't care at all. Why would I have anxiety

1703
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 1: if I don't care? Turns out the wisdom of the body.

1704
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 1: Knowing that. When I finally found out what was going

1705
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:07,000
Speaker 1: on in my heart, and I talked to the heart

1706
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 1: surgeon and he asked what kind of exercise I do,

1707
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, I'm doing this heavy Olympic deadlifting.

1708
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: He just he put his hand, his head in his hands,

1709
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 1: and he said, every time you lifted the weight, you're

1710
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,200
Speaker 1: playing Russian Roulette every time. Wow. He's like, there was

1711
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 1: no worse thing you could have done with what was

1712
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 1: going on in your heart. So and again I didn't

1713
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:31,600
Speaker 1: know that, but something in my body had all this

1714
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 1: anxiety around something that I didn't care about at all.

1715
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 1: So there are levels of wisdom that we don't know,

1716
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 1: we don't understand. So when you have an intuition to

1717
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 1: take the stairs instead of the elevator, or I always

1718
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 1: go home this way, but today, for some reason, I

1719
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 1: feel like going this other way, or maybe I'm in

1720
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: a cross street and walk on that side of the street.

1721
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, whatever intuitions in your body that come,

1722
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 1: listen to them, see what happens, be open to There's

1723
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:09,880
Speaker 1: more going on than we know. There's a lot more

1724
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 1: than our conscious mind can can pick up going on.

1725
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we often do so many things because we think

1726
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 2: they're right, we think they're healthy. They the thing you're

1727
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 2: meant to do in it, but it doesn't sit with

1728
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:24,160
Speaker 2: you somewhere, and I think so many people have. I

1729
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:26,120
Speaker 2: know for a fact that I feel like I started

1730
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:29,799
Speaker 2: following my intuition when I was probably around fourteen, and

1731
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 2: so that voice is very loud. But I know a

1732
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 2: lot of people that I've worked with and coached and

1733
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 2: also worked with in my life that started to stop

1734
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 2: listening to their own a voice at fourteen, and so

1735
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 2: it's very quiet now, and so it becomes harder to

1736
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,639
Speaker 2: really hear it because we've suppressed it for so long.

1737
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 2: And then the ego or the outside noise is so

1738
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 2: loud that we're guided by that, we're not misguided by that.

1739
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:00,639
Speaker 2: It's hard to tap into it. And have you found

1740
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 2: anything that helps you tap into it when you feel

1741
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 2: like you're losing or have you met someone and you've

1742
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 2: worked and you've said, hey, just try this to tap

1743
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 2: into it again. And the example you just gave right

1744
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 2: now kind of feel real too. Where it can be

1745
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,599
Speaker 2: something as simple as take that route. Do that, because

1746
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 2: I find like people lose touch with it.

1747
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I would say, when when you're getting advice of

1748
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 1: any kind, expert advice from whoever it is, no, maybe

1749
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 1: that's maybe that applies to me, Maybe that applies, and

1750
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't, but it's okay, it's okay. No, there's

1751
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 1: no bad intention on the wisdom that's being shared with us.

1752
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:46,680
Speaker 1: People are offering their best information, but the information that

1753
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 1: they're offering is based on their experience. So no, even

1754
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: when it's someone you really respect, when they're suggesting something

1755
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 1: maybe that would work, Maybe I'll try it, maybe not,

1756
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 1: But listen to what's going on in side yourself. And

1757
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 1: I would say, getting to wherever it is that you've gotten,

1758
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 1: we've usually gotten there through listening to something going on

1759
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:16,559
Speaker 1: inside of ourselves. I have many successful musician friends who

1760
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:19,760
Speaker 1: have gotten there through listening to what's going on inside themselves,

1761
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 1: and then in success think it's time to start taking

1762
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:26,679
Speaker 1: direction from the outside world makes no sense.

1763
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,120
Speaker 2: It's hard. Yeah, like you either do it at the

1764
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 2: beginning or you do at the end. And it's almost

1765
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 2: like they're the same in the sense of what you

1766
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 2: were saying earlier. The idea of there's this beginner's mindset

1767
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 2: where you always open to hear people's thoughts, so you

1768
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 2: don't know. There's that idea of I don't know, we

1769
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,800
Speaker 2: have to feel yes and see. But that's different too.

1770
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. Therefore someone else must know, or I've

1771
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 2: known up to now, and now I don't. No one knows.

1772
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 1: I don't know, and nobody knows. No one knows, And

1773
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: everyone's intentions are good. They're not out to get us,

1774
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 1: but nobody knows. They think they know. The wisest thing

1775
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 1: we can do is no enough to know. We don't know.

1776
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: If you start from maybe maybe that's true. It could work.

1777
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:16,760
Speaker 1: Who knows. Yeah, not hold anything so firm as this

1778
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: is the way it is. I know how it is.

1779
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:22,559
Speaker 1: Anytime you know how it is, your world just got

1780
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:26,639
Speaker 1: a lot smaller, tiny.

1781
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's yeah, it's this. This idea is crystallizing for

1782
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 2: me as we're talking. This idea that you can be thinking,

1783
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:34,120
Speaker 2: you can be doing, you can be feeling, or you

1784
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:36,320
Speaker 2: can be knowing. And a lot of us try and

1785
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:40,040
Speaker 2: play so much emphasis on knowing, but no one actually knows,

1786
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:42,880
Speaker 2: and so it's better to either change our thoughts, change

1787
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:46,559
Speaker 2: our behavior, or focus on our feelings and sense. As

1788
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 2: you've been saying all along, it's like you've got to

1789
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 2: feel how it.

1790
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying will always be right?

1791
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no no, no, there is no well,

1792
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 2: there is no.

1793
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is even there isn't even wrong, right, yeah.

1794
01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:01,360
Speaker 1: Pay attention to what's going on inside yourself. There's so

1795
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: much information going on inside of ourselves, intuitive information.

1796
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:09,719
Speaker 2: Greg, This has been such a beautiful and fascinating conversation

1797
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 2: for so many reasons. We end every one Purpose episode

1798
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 2: with a final five, and these answers are answered in

1799
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:20,479
Speaker 2: one word or one sentence each, so you have that

1800
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 2: kind of capacity. And I want you to tell us

1801
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 2: about your new podcast that's coming out as well, so

1802
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,920
Speaker 2: we'll talk about at the end. But the first question

1803
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:34,520
Speaker 2: is what is the best advice you've ever heard, received

1804
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:35,200
Speaker 2: or given?

1805
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 1: Don't listen to anyone, And what is.

1806
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 2: The worst advice you've ever heard received.

1807
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 1: Or given don't do the thing you love?

1808
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:48,720
Speaker 2: Question number three, how would you define your current purpose.

1809
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:54,600
Speaker 1: Making every step that I make in the interest of

1810
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 1: the highest good?

1811
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 2: Question number four, what's something that you believe strongly that

1812
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 2: you think other people find it hard to understand everything?

1813
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 2: That's really everything? And fifth and final question, If you

1814
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 2: could create one law that everyone in the world had

1815
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 2: to follow, what would it be? Love each other? Beautiful?

1816
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 2: Rick Rubin everyone. The name of the book is the

1817
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 2: Creative Act, a way of being. If you don't already

1818
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,679
Speaker 2: have a copy, again, I highly recommend it. I promise

1819
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 2: you it will be an investment that will be something

1820
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 2: you pick up for years. It's not a book you've

1821
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 2: read and put down and then you never see it again.

1822
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 2: It's going to be a book that you're going to

1823
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:41,840
Speaker 2: go back to again and again and again day after day,

1824
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 2: month after month and find new gems and new jewels

1825
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 2: and new wisdom that will inspire your creative journey. So

1826
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,720
Speaker 2: if you've been someone who's been blocked stuck trying to

1827
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 2: find out you know where that's gone, or haven't ever

1828
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 2: seen it before, this will be the book to unlock it.

1829
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:00,599
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it. And Rick, you also have podcast

1830
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:00,960
Speaker 2: as well.

1831
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:04,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called Tetrogrammaton. I've been doing the Broken Record

1832
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:08,160
Speaker 1: podcast for about five years, where I mainly speak to musicians,

1833
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 1: and I'm so interested in people who are not musicians.

1834
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just one of the things that I'm

1835
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,759
Speaker 1: involved in, but I'm much more curious than just about music,

1836
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: and it just seemed like, why would I do that?

1837
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 1: So I've recorded the first fifteen of them.

1838
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:28,439
Speaker 2: Okay, amazing, amazing. Where can people find it? Everywhere?

1839
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:28,919
Speaker 1: Everywhere?

1840
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, make sure you go and subscribe to the podcast.

1841
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 2: Got fifteen. I'm sure they're coming out weekly or week.

1842
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 2: They'll come out weekly and sounds like I'm sure you've

1843
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 2: got some phenomenal guests already lined up. So please, everyone

1844
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 2: who's listening and watching with the book, go ahead and

1845
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: listen to the podcast as well. I'm sure you're going

1846
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:48,439
Speaker 2: to be hearing amazing interviews and introductions and new insights

1847
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 2: on people that you know and love, and I'm sure

1848
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,599
Speaker 2: there'll be some new people there too, But make sure

1849
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:54,639
Speaker 2: you do that. Rick, thank you so much for today.

1850
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 2: Thank you for your energy, your presence, your work and

1851
01:39:58,040 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 2: putting this together and making sure you put out the

1852
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,439
Speaker 2: book you wanted to put out. I'm very grateful for it.

1853
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:05,880
Speaker 2: I was, as I said, I was personally amazed at

1854
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 2: how you'd transformed how people would have thought about a

1855
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 2: book from you, and I hope it inspires many more

1856
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:14,360
Speaker 2: people to find their truth as well.

1857
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 1: So beautiful, Thank you so much for reading you, thank

1858
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:18,439
Speaker 1: you for of course, thank you. I appreciate it.

1859
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:22,480
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode

1860
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:26,639
Speaker 2: with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how

1861
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:30,280
Speaker 2: to speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are

1862
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 2: only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of.

1863
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:37,240
Speaker 2: The more that I face my fears, the more that

1864
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:40,439
Speaker 2: I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I

1865
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:42,080
Speaker 2: just want to keep doing that