Speaker 1: Native Blame Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome home, y'all, we
Speaker 2: are here with this league mini pod, and I know
Speaker 2: you all are going to find as relatable because Andrew
Speaker 2: had the great idea to talk about money, specifically loaning
Speaker 2: money to family and friends. And when you start making
Speaker 2: money and you become the person like JJ want to
Speaker 2: go to prom the loan, make that money for his tugs,
Speaker 2: and Renee want to go to the Dans and she
Speaker 2: needs money for her dress and all those things. We
Speaker 2: certainly have been through that collectively. So Andrew, what made
Speaker 2: you want to talk about this?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I you know, I came across this clip and I
Speaker 1: thought it was like quite something to hear a very
Speaker 1: very very very rich woman share this problem that a
Speaker 1: lot of us common folks also encounter. And I just
Speaker 1: I just wanted to see if our audience might relate
Speaker 1: similarly to how this particular person deals.
Speaker 2: With she because not her, that's my only.
Speaker 3: This.
Speaker 1: The voice that you're going to hear if you're on
Speaker 1: the listening side is Melanie Hopson, who I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: say Melanie. You can have a D in your name
Speaker 1: all day of you a melody and I'm also.
Speaker 2: But she's I don't know, we know her, but a
Speaker 2: lot of people like may not actually know her. She's
Speaker 2: the president of a Real Investments, which is a huge
Speaker 2: management strategic planning firm, but really in finance. She also
Speaker 2: happens to be married to George Lucas.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, star Wars.
Speaker 2: Wars fame, so collectively they are ballin' very She was
Speaker 2: formerly on the board of Starbucks, but I don't think
Speaker 2: she's on the board now. And I think she's on
Speaker 2: the board of the Rockefellow Foundation as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a big deal. She's a big Check
Speaker 1: her out. I will check it out. You should. I
Speaker 1: think you find it.
Speaker 2: Interesting how when you become the one person in the
Speaker 2: family that makes money, how do you maintain relationships with
Speaker 2: your family?
Speaker 3: This would be hours of conversation, but I'm going to
Speaker 3: give you the highlight reel. For me, I was my
Speaker 3: mother's retirement plan. She fully expected and believed that, but
Speaker 3: she put a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2: On me, a lot.
Speaker 3: We had a young woman who worked at Ariel. Her
Speaker 3: father was the CEO of a big company She was
Speaker 3: a young white woman, and she was like, you lend
Speaker 3: your family members money, you take care of your parents.
Speaker 3: And we're all like, there are a bunch of black
Speaker 3: people in the day.
Speaker 1: We're like, yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Have to set boundaries. You have just set very very
Speaker 3: clear boundaries. And what I did, which was a bit
Speaker 3: extreme because it became debilitating to me and it was
Speaker 3: going to end relationships that I had, was I put,
Speaker 3: honestly an accountant between me and my family, and I
Speaker 3: made it that you can't ever call me for money,
Speaker 3: but you can call this person. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: talk to you about this. You have to call Tom.
Speaker 3: You have to call Tom. You have to call Tom.
Speaker 3: It was ugly in the beginning. The last thing I
Speaker 3: tell people all the time is when you make that decision,
Speaker 3: just understand it's a donation. You're never going to say
Speaker 3: it again. Whatever I do give, I do not expect back.
Speaker 3: I never said that to them, but emotionally that was
Speaker 3: my way of dealing with when I didn't get it back.
Speaker 1: I could relate to that. First of all, the accounting
Speaker 1: think that ain't in my league. I'll be clear clearly.
Speaker 1: But but Tiff, I don't know about you. But when folks,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of make up in their mind that
Speaker 1: you're the one that has the resource as the relative,
Speaker 1: and in my opinion, sort of suspend with the fact
Speaker 1: that you got their kids and their family and got
Speaker 1: all that, and it's sort of like, this is what
Speaker 1: I need and can you help, and can I just
Speaker 1: borrow such and such an until next week or such
Speaker 1: and such, you know, I like, like Melody said, once,
Speaker 1: I once I gave money, even if it were a
Speaker 1: quote loan, I made up in my mind immediately it
Speaker 1: wasn't coming back. Because early on when I really did
Speaker 1: think people were asking for a loan, and they really
Speaker 1: were next Tuesday, don't pay me back. And then I
Speaker 1: saw them next week on Saturday, and they were buying
Speaker 1: themselves some kicks. And in my mind, I'm now resenting
Speaker 1: and I got judgment. Now I'm watching your spend, I'm
Speaker 1: watching all of it. And it wasn't that like I
Speaker 1: needed the money back so badly. It was just the
Speaker 1: principle of the matter, like you said, with your whole heart,
Speaker 1: the next week Tuesday, you were going to do a thing,
Speaker 1: and it's Saturday, and you didn't do that thing. You
Speaker 1: didn't do the thing you said. But worse, you not
Speaker 1: taking the money. You should be paying me back and
Speaker 1: buying shoes and this and that. And let's go to
Speaker 1: you know, restaurant X, Y and Z and get brunch.
Speaker 1: How you gonna get brunch? You owe me money? Right,
Speaker 1: So that was that began to tear at relationships for me.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking to you know, history forward, and so
Speaker 1: it was like, Andrew, you got to make one or
Speaker 1: two decisions. You either are going to say, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not loaning money. I don't give no, I can't do that,
Speaker 1: or you're going to say if it is a gift,
Speaker 1: if it's a loan, it's a gift, it is make
Speaker 1: up in your mind. You you are never seeing it again.
Speaker 1: And that way I can release it right when I
Speaker 1: release the money, that is gone.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good practice. So I didn't know
Speaker 2: we were going to be talking about this, but just coincidentally,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, I'm writing a book and I
Speaker 2: write extensively about this, so I actually have some data
Speaker 2: on this. And the challenge with Andrew is, you well know,
Speaker 2: as a parent, sometimes you're now put in a position
Speaker 2: where now you're taking care of parents and you're taking
Speaker 2: care of children. So you're getting bled by both ends,
Speaker 2: which puts you in peril. So then the cycle continues.
Speaker 2: You put your children in a position where they now
Speaker 2: have to take care of you and their children. Then
Speaker 2: it's like, how do you stop right? But many of
Speaker 2: us are doing just that. So in fact, nearly half
Speaker 2: all college educated black households are taking care of their
Speaker 2: parents or you know, putting money back into their family,
Speaker 2: while just sixteen percent of college educated white households do
Speaker 2: the same. And more than a quarter of Black Americans
Speaker 2: live in multi generational homes here. So you look at
Speaker 2: what we're doing and also considering the wealth gap. So
Speaker 2: I write about that, and it's not just data, but
Speaker 2: I also write about it through my own personal lens
Speaker 2: and how I live my life. Look, this is one
Speaker 2: of the challenging things for me. I am a giver.
Speaker 2: If I have it, I will give it, and I
Speaker 2: certainly you know, I have an immediate family member who
Speaker 2: I take care of all of her needs as best
Speaker 2: I can. I don't want her to want for anything.
Speaker 2: And then outside of that, I get a little frustrated
Speaker 2: because I made certain choices in life and I have
Speaker 2: been a really amazing steward of my own finances. I
Speaker 2: have budgeted in a way that I have this pot
Speaker 2: of money to live off of every month. And since
Speaker 2: since one of the comments in our survey was I
Speaker 2: don't talk about my personal life and tell all my
Speaker 2: personal business, I'll tell you all a very specific story.
Speaker 2: Just recently, I had budgeted where I paid for everything,
Speaker 2: All bills are paid, family taken care of, you know,
Speaker 2: grocery money, going out money, everything, And I just had
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars surplus. You know, this was just free
Speaker 2: cash for me to do with whatever. If I wanted
Speaker 2: to pay for dinner one night, if I wanted to
Speaker 2: catch the train to New York to meet with my
Speaker 2: publisher about just whatever, nothing silly your publisher, yeah, or
Speaker 2: whomever in New York. No, not the kind you turned
Speaker 2: off with the guy. I know he would be paying
Speaker 2: for it if I was going to see him. But me,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever appointments I might have to have to
Speaker 2: go back and forth in New York all the time
Speaker 2: is really expensive. And so just a thousand not free money.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not allocated anywhere, not even to my
Speaker 2: going out budget. And just like that, my family hit
Speaker 2: me up. I need three hundred dollars. Okay, well that'sk
Speaker 2: on another family member, I need three hundred dollars. Okay,
Speaker 2: well now I'm down the six hundred. Then this family
Speaker 2: needed something, Well now I'm down to five hundred. And
Speaker 2: it just got whittled and whittled, and so now I
Speaker 2: have a three hundred dollars surplus for myself. Now I
Speaker 2: didn't want for anything. I was well taken care of.
Speaker 2: But to be honest, I did have a little bit
Speaker 2: of resentment because I budget my money for that reason,
Speaker 2: and I do wonder, like, what are you doing that
Speaker 2: you're not budgeting your money and the assumption that you're
Speaker 2: going to borrow money and I know I'll never see
Speaker 2: that money again. And then I also feel like an
Speaker 2: asshole for asking for the money, because you know, I
Speaker 2: make my family can't comprehend. But I also live in
Speaker 2: one of the most expensive cities, so it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm out here ball and it's like, yeah, what I
Speaker 2: pay in rent might be their mortgage for six months,
Speaker 2: you know, So it might look like I have this
Speaker 2: surplus of cash, but I have this huge bucket of
Speaker 2: expenses and I'm never you know, like the woman who
Speaker 2: gave me life, and never like I always want her
Speaker 2: to not have have what she needs, but we have
Speaker 2: what she wants as well. So I really appreciate you
Speaker 2: bringing up this conversation because I don't have kids, and
Speaker 2: I can't imagine trying to take care of children. But
Speaker 2: it is exhausting. It's emotionally exhausting, it is financially taxing.
Speaker 2: Then there's also those random tax bills that come up,
Speaker 2: and so when you have, you know, I think some
Speaker 2: of the income challenges and blessings that we have. That's
Speaker 2: another thing. It's hard to explain that to family, like
Speaker 2: you don't understand it. I'm paying a lawyer, or if
Speaker 2: I'm collecting the speaker fee, I'm paying an agent, I'm
Speaker 2: paying my speaking agent, I'm paying my overall agent. I'm
Speaker 2: paying the manager, I'm paying an assistant. Every like, there
Speaker 2: are things that I budgeted for and I allocated for this. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't always feel like there's a lot of consideration
Speaker 2: to that. I mean, I trust some people come to
Speaker 2: me they feel bad and they've gone through all the things.
Speaker 2: But I also look back, like god damn, like when
Speaker 2: we were younger. This is why I was trying to
Speaker 2: tell you should do this, this like makes a different
Speaker 2: decision and it didn't happen, and so I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I feel guilty. I class guilt for sure.
Speaker 1: No, I feel that. I feel that. And sometimes our friends, family,
Speaker 1: wild ever sort of make us to feel, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of shamed or guilty in some way or another,
Speaker 1: because you remember, I gave my last for such and
Speaker 1: such and such, and I did my and I know
Speaker 1: about those things, so we feel some obligation there. I
Speaker 1: guess if I could, if something could be different about
Speaker 1: the dynamic I get, for me, it will probably be
Speaker 1: just don't call it alone if you don't really mean
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, it's just something about that that just
Speaker 1: doesn't feel right. Yeah, you feel really taking advantage of
Speaker 1: and almost like playing for stupid, Like now you damn
Speaker 1: ll no, you ain't paid back the last six and
Speaker 1: you ain't about to pay back the seventh, and so
Speaker 1: don't say it, stop joshing me. Stop you know, acting
Speaker 1: like I was born last night, because that did. Something
Speaker 1: about that just doesn't feel honest with the relationship. And
Speaker 1: that's what I would say I sort of missed the most.
Speaker 1: There was a period in time where I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to take calls from them, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: from from from server. I knew what it was on
Speaker 1: the other end, and so I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I need peace today, Like I just can't get in
Speaker 1: the middle of it. And then also got to a
Speaker 1: stage where you know, you just need to leave a
Speaker 1: text or voicemail with the amount and like and then
Speaker 1: that's done and this is over. Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to have to fake I don't want to have to
Speaker 1: fake it. I don't ask me how I'm doing, how
Speaker 1: you've been, and you don't mean it. You know, I
Speaker 1: can see from the ring, I know it from this
Speaker 1: to the phone vibrates. Yeah. And but I also know
Speaker 1: that there are people who get out and they are
Speaker 1: working job. They're showing up to their job, they are
Speaker 1: working their job. They are getting the paycheck from the job,
Speaker 1: and before they can cash it, it is already spent
Speaker 1: on the bills and obligations. I know that life all
Speaker 1: too well. I remember trading, you know, paying you know,
Speaker 1: robing Peter to pay Paul, and then borrowing again, you know,
Speaker 1: off the Paul money and the serpent, you know, to
Speaker 1: do this. So I don't I don't I try not
Speaker 1: to act like I don't know what's going on. I
Speaker 1: get it, but then I also want on the other
Speaker 1: side for you to know that just because you saw
Speaker 1: me on a plane to d C the other day
Speaker 1: and then I was in New York, that ain't my person.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not here ball and taking trips every week.
Speaker 2: That is, it's your life and get made money. But
Speaker 2: they don't know as a work for somebody else's is
Speaker 2: putting the build. But all they said the highlight reel
Speaker 2: and make assumptions. But my point is even if you
Speaker 2: see me land on the bit on the beach in
Speaker 2: the Maldives, like so I budgeted for that, I worked
Speaker 2: for that, and I get to do that. So it's
Speaker 2: this is a sensitive topic. I you know, I I
Speaker 2: I didn't know we were going to talk about this.
Speaker 2: But it is making me feel even guilty right now,
Speaker 2: to be honest, because I also know like it's hard,
Speaker 2: Like there are people in my family where yes, we
Speaker 2: have the same opportunities, but we had different coping skills
Speaker 2: with life, we had different goals in life, and so
Speaker 2: I feel bad that I made certain decisions that other
Speaker 2: people did not. But what I'm working through is living
Speaker 2: for myself and choosing my joy because I can't carry
Speaker 2: other people's pain and it does. It pains me when
Speaker 2: my family it's even if their feelings are hurt, it
Speaker 2: pains me. And so when they ask, like it is
Speaker 2: difficult for me to say no, actually I saved his money.
Speaker 2: I wanted to get my hair done. You know, Johnny
Speaker 2: Wright got a pretty penny. I was like, I wanted
Speaker 2: to get my hair but it looks like it but
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I'm paying a lot of money, but
Speaker 2: I budgeted to be able to pay this money to
Speaker 2: get my hair done. Or I'm you know, speaking at
Speaker 2: this event and they're not paying for hair and makeup,
Speaker 2: like that had to come out of my own pocket.
Speaker 2: And so I feel like the asshole. And I'm like, damn,
Speaker 2: you can't pay your phone bill and I have it,
Speaker 2: except I want to go use it to get this
Speaker 2: fancy haircut. And then I feel guilty, and then I
Speaker 2: feel mad that I feel guilty about it, and I
Speaker 2: just can I get resentful that I'm forced to feel
Speaker 2: all yes, yes, And so I I know what this
Speaker 2: society has done to our people. I understand the wealth gap.
Speaker 2: I understand the decisions that our respective families have had
Speaker 2: to make. I understand what my uncles and different people
Speaker 2: in my life who have given me money and you know,
Speaker 2: just gifted me things for surplus just because I was
Speaker 2: their niece. But it can be taxing in every possible way.
Speaker 2: So I'm curious for my viewers if you guys can,
Speaker 2: if you are the the borrower, what are the circumstances
Speaker 2: that lead you to ask your auntie, a sister, a
Speaker 2: cousin for money? Do you pay it back? Do you
Speaker 2: so uncomfortable? How do you handle it? And if you
Speaker 2: are the one who is issuing funds to family, how
Speaker 2: do you guys handle it? And y'all know I read
Speaker 2: the comments, but I'm also asking just because I want
Speaker 2: some guidance for myself as I navigate my own emotions
Speaker 2: around it. Uh, how do y'all? How do y'all deal
Speaker 2: with it? And I don't know this to my parents
Speaker 2: for the record, like the people give me life, they
Speaker 2: just get to, you know, do whatever. I don't mind that.
Speaker 1: If I got it, you got it. Basically is you know,
Speaker 1: I think this is a charged topic for a lot
Speaker 1: of us in our community, and we've come by it
Speaker 1: the hard way because most of us know it so well,
Speaker 1: which is why we find ourselves so obedient to the
Speaker 1: request because at various points in our lives, and you know,
Speaker 1: God forbid in our future life will wee ever find
Speaker 1: ourselves on the on the side of need. But I
Speaker 1: will say, if I am ever on the side of need,
Speaker 1: when I have been on the side of need, I've
Speaker 1: made it my creed to pay people, and I like
Speaker 1: to do it right when I say, and I hope
Speaker 1: it's the next, very very next week if it can,
Speaker 1: because I know the feeling of I'll pay you back
Speaker 1: in I don't ever want.
Speaker 2: To be in character, and if I can't, I'm going
Speaker 2: to acknowledge it. At least I'm going to say, hey,
Speaker 2: for sure say something right, but just the assumption, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's just the behavior of men and women, grown adults.
Speaker 2: This is how how that goes.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's real. Well, thank you all for indulging
Speaker 1: us in this conversation, and thank you TIF for sharing
Speaker 1: more of your personal love. Although I have to say
Speaker 1: I disagree with that comment because I think you are very,
Speaker 1: very vulnerable and open about what's going well it certainly
Speaker 1: if you're you know, doing some experimental stuff. You just
Speaker 1: you just set that camera up and we'll be the
Speaker 1: judge of it. Okay, y'all, thank you for being with
Speaker 1: us on this, on this mini pod. I hope you
Speaker 1: took something from it, and we are still expecting to
Speaker 1: get something from you. We want to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: and reflections on how it is you negotiate.
Speaker 2: At this.
Speaker 1: And we kept it brief, so get it in the
Speaker 1: group chat. Take you everybody, Welcome Home.
Speaker 2: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with
Speaker 2: Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
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