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Speaker 1: Trigger warning. This podcast involves discussions of child sexual abuse

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Speaker 1: and pedophilia. Listener discretion as advised. Let's play a game.

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Speaker 1: It's called how many men can we hire to write

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Speaker 1: a script of Lolita. We'll start with Adrian Line, an

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Speaker 1: English director who started in commercials and graduated to commercial

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Speaker 1: hits like Flash Dance and Fatal Attraction and Indecent Proposal,

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Speaker 1: and by Line was ready to make a big budget

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Speaker 1: art film, a very specific big budget art film. It

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Speaker 1: was Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita, the first attempt to adapt the

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Speaker 1: story to the big screen since Stanley Kubrick's version in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two. In February of four, Line wrote a

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Speaker 1: thirty five page document he called preparatory Notes on Nabokov's novel.

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Speaker 1: The document said this, the movie should start in prison,

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Speaker 1: because if the audience understands that Humbert is paying his dues,

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Speaker 1: it may help our case. There's a pretty impressive history

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Speaker 1: of the production of this film, chronicled by writer Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Kay in Esquire magazine in a piece that was advertised

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Speaker 1: on the cover of the issue as Who's Afraid of Lolita?

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Speaker 1: An image of the movie's eventual star fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: Dominique Swain licks her pointer finger and looks at the camera,

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Speaker 1: wearing a revealing but period appropriate blue linen romper. Inside

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Speaker 1: there's an image of Swain from that same photo shoot

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Speaker 1: blowing a bubble of bright pink gum with a different

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Speaker 1: ghoulish headline, Lolita Comes Again. Title aside the piece itself

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Speaker 1: is pretty critical of the whole production, and Kay spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time on set chronicling it carefully. In

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Speaker 1: the nine nineties, in spite of the escalating frank sexuality

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Speaker 1: of popular movies and entertainment, Lolita was not an easy

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Speaker 1: project to get made, but it wasn't because of the

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Speaker 1: Nabokov estate. In fact, Nabokov's son Dmitri was extremely supportive

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Speaker 1: of the project and by the mid nineties was the

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Speaker 1: author's only remaining living relative. Nabokov's wife and collaborator Vera,

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Speaker 1: had passed. In the nineties. Dmitri said that, I have

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Speaker 1: no doubt that Lita will be an excellent movie, and

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt that it will find an excellent distributor. Okay,

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Speaker 1: King stay confident. So Adrian Line has an outline of

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Speaker 1: how he wants the movie to go, and he brings

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Speaker 1: it to a trusted collaborator. Bachelor number one, James Dearden Deerdon,

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Speaker 1: then forty five years old, specialized in erotic thrillers, penning

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Speaker 1: Fatal Attraction back in the late eighties for Line and

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Speaker 1: then moving on to write and direct his own movies,

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Speaker 1: which were more erotic drillers like A Kiss Before Dying

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Speaker 1: in Rogue Trader Dirden and Lolita were not a fit.

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Speaker 1: So onto Bachelor number two, Harold Pinter, a Nobel Prize

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Speaker 1: winning British playwright and actor whose work was defined by

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Speaker 1: unpredictable dialogue happening in enclosed spaces. Pinter had also won

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Speaker 1: BAFTA's and had been nominated for Academy Awards for his

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Speaker 1: screenplay adaptations of two different movies that starred Jeremy Irons.

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Speaker 1: There was The French Lieutenant Wife in two with Meryl

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Speaker 1: Streep and Betrayal in three, and Adamation of Pinter's own play.

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Speaker 1: Lyne rejected his script as well, So onto Bachelor number three,

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Speaker 1: David Mammont. I'm sorry I was. If you were to

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Speaker 1: ask me which writer working in would be the absolute

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Speaker 1: worst to adapt Lolita, David Mammitt would be number one.

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Speaker 1: He was very successful, particularly for Glen Garry Glenn Ross

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Speaker 1: sealing our cultural fate of Alec Baldwin never going away.

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Speaker 1: But by ninety four, ma'am it would have been focused

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Speaker 1: on adapting his play about a female college student filing

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Speaker 1: bogus sexual harassment charges against a professor into a movie.

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Speaker 1: I just David Mammitt adapting Lolita. Ma'am. It is the

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Speaker 1: man that said this, Women have in men's minds such

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Speaker 1: a low place on the social ladder in this country

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Speaker 1: that it's useless to define yourself in terms of a woman.

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Speaker 1: What men need is men's approval. Ma'am. It did experience

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Speaker 1: a childhood full of violence and trauma as well, and

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Speaker 1: not all his female characters were entirely dis enfranchised, so

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Speaker 1: maybe there would have been some ideas in there, but

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Speaker 1: it's just it's not a fit. Writer. Sarah Weinman, who

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Speaker 1: has written about Lolita extensively and we've talked to in

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Speaker 1: previous episodes on the show, has read the ma'm at

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Speaker 1: script and had this to say about it. I was

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Speaker 1: at U T. Austin and Harry Ransom Center for another thing,

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Speaker 1: and I just decided to request the box that had

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Speaker 1: David mamm at script of Lolita just to see what

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Speaker 1: that was like, and wait, you got it's not good.

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Speaker 1: Mamodies total misunderstanding of women and trying to make comfort

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Speaker 1: into kind of Glen Garry kind of character, and it

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Speaker 1: just it just didn't work. But I'm glad I read

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Speaker 1: it because I was. I was curious, David, Ma'm it

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Speaker 1: adapting Lolita? How dare you? Anyways, the script doesn't work out,

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Speaker 1: and so that's a third strike. Here's Adrian Line giving

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Speaker 1: an interview on the topic with a quick recapt You

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Speaker 1: were hired to direct the film. Yes, um, I actually

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Speaker 1: read the novel about ten years ago when I was

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Speaker 1: doing Jacob Sladder. Spoke to Mario Kassa, who then was

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Speaker 1: head of Carol Coo that was then in business. He

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Speaker 1: bought the rights of it for me on spec. I

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Speaker 1: then worked with four writers. I worked with David Mahm

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Speaker 1: and I worked with Harold Pinter. I worked with James

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Speaker 1: Didn't trying desperately to trump they can't do it? Who can't?

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Speaker 1: Well there you go. Meanwhile, every woman writer is just

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Speaker 1: is just sitting there. Then we arrive at bachelor number four,

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Speaker 1: who of all the bad fits for this project is

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Speaker 1: the least bad fit. It's Stephen Schiff, a writer for

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Speaker 1: The New Yorker who had previously been a finalist for

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Speaker 1: the Pulitzer for Film Criticism and had written profiles of

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg, Stephen Sondheim, and Edward Gory and served as

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Speaker 1: a film reviewer for Fresh Air on NPR before writing

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Speaker 1: the script for Lolita. On spec Schiff said this about

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Speaker 1: the process. From our first meeting, I was very aware

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Speaker 1: of Adrian's fear that the audience would just hate Humbert.

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Speaker 1: The concern was, how do you get the audience who

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Speaker 1: understands that what he's doing is abhorrent to view him

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Speaker 1: as someone they want to spend time with. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: now it's time to get our cast together. Of course

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Speaker 1: we need our Humbert. Humbert, the European child sex abuser,

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Speaker 1: who in adaptations up until this point has been generally

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Speaker 1: romanticized or made a problematic hero at best and a

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Speaker 1: full on comedic king singing and dancing at worst. So

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Speaker 1: it's the mid nineties. Now, who do we got? Line

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Speaker 1: considers Anthony Hopkins, But at fifty six, Hopkins is a

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Speaker 1: little too old. Then there's Warren Beatty, who's not interested.

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Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman is briefly linked to the project. Line also

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Speaker 1: considers Hugh Grant, who, at thirty four and approaching the

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Speaker 1: height of his rom com fame, was said to be

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Speaker 1: a little too young for the part. Por an article

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Speaker 1: in Entertainment Weekly in August, Hugh Grant says, this, The

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Speaker 1: trouble is that's my favorite book of old time, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to make a film of it.

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Speaker 1: Hugh Grant loved him in Paddington too, okay, who's still

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Speaker 1: in the mix. Harold Pinter, who was one of those

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Speaker 1: acclaimed writers whose lowly line rejected, recommends Jeremy Irons, an

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Speaker 1: actor he's written for with success many times. If you

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Speaker 1: want an actor who isn't afraid of looking bad, Pinder

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Speaker 1: tell's line, get Jeremy Irons. Jeremy Irons at this time

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Speaker 1: was an English actor who is a little bit older

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Speaker 1: than Nabokov's thirty seven year old Humbert Humbert of the book,

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Speaker 1: but is still younger than James Mason's fifty something year

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Speaker 1: old Humbert in Kubrick's version. And most importantly, Jeremy Irons

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Speaker 1: was famously not afraid to play a bad guy. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he made a career on it and continues to to

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Speaker 1: this day. Whether it was his Oscar nominated performance as

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Speaker 1: murderer Klaus von Buelo in Reversal of Fortune, whether it

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Speaker 1: was his playing twin guynecologists in Dead Ringer, or hell

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Speaker 1: most famously, scar in The Lion King. So Okay, Line

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Speaker 1: decides he wants Jeremy Irons, but Jeremy I Irons needs

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Speaker 1: some convincing. Here is an iconic passage from Elizabeth Kay's

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Speaker 1: piece on how he needed to be convinced by his

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Speaker 1: Reversal of Fortune costar and leading lady of Adrian Line's

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Speaker 1: Fatal Attraction, Madame Glenn Close. But Irons didn't want to

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Speaker 1: play humbird. I played enough widows, he told Line, I

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Speaker 1: need this like a hole in the head. Don't be

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Speaker 1: so politically correct, Line said, God, we know where this

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Speaker 1: is heading. The piece continues. Irons American agent liked the script,

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Speaker 1: but the actor was warned against it by his English

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Speaker 1: agent and everyone else whose opinion he trusted, i e.

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Speaker 1: The male stars coterie of wife pr woman, makeup lady

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Speaker 1: Glenn Close, whose work with Line in Fatal Attraction, led

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Speaker 1: her a change of type that revived her career. Told

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Speaker 1: Irons that Line was terribly protective of actors. She also

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Speaker 1: said he shouldn't play humbird. Word of this reached Line.

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Speaker 1: He was furious. That's a knee jerk reaction, he thought.

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Speaker 1: He called Glenn Close. Are you saying? He shouted that

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Speaker 1: I can't even touch this subject? It upsets me. Lyon

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Speaker 1: recalls her saying, in a voice, no calmer, I've got

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Speaker 1: a daughter, perfectly understandable, said Line. I've got two daughters.

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Speaker 1: But the idea that you wouldn't do something, the idea

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Speaker 1: of self censorship is more sinister than I'm setting people. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: the shouting ceased. All the work I'd absolutely decided I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't do, but did. Line recalls Close, saying, then worked

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Speaker 1: very well for me. I'm sorry. Am I supposed to

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Speaker 1: be rooting for these men to bully the one and

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Speaker 1: only Glenn Close. That's not going to happen, The piece continues.

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Speaker 1: I think she understood. Line would say later that I

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Speaker 1: really loved the novel and that if you feel that

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Speaker 1: strongly about a subject, there's a chance of it being

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Speaker 1: half decent. Glenn Close called Irons again. Remember what we do.

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Speaker 1: She said, we do great roles with great scripts and

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Speaker 1: great directors, And isn't this that? And I'm turning it down,

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Speaker 1: thought Irons because I'm worried about what it will do

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Speaker 1: to my career. Ludicrous? All right, Then he said, let's

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Speaker 1: be politically incorrect, let's start the waters. Yes, Irons recalls Close, saying,

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Speaker 1: even though as the mother of a young girl, I

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Speaker 1: still find it all very difficult. Dude, this is not

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Speaker 1: the place nor the podcast to be having this discussion.

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Speaker 1: But Glenn Close deserves an oscar so Jeremy Irons is

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Speaker 1: officially Humbert Humburt. Filling out the rest of the cast

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Speaker 1: will be Melanie Griffith as my favorite Charlotte Hayes, Frank

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Speaker 1: Angela in a restrained performance of Claire Quilty that for

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Speaker 1: some reason features full frontal nudity in the last scene.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course Dolores Hayes needs to be cast.

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Speaker 1: But to be clear, I'm going to be calling her

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Speaker 1: Lolita throughout this episode because spoiler alert, the character of

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Speaker 1: Dolores Hayes and all the nuance therein does not translate

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Speaker 1: into this movie, where you're still very much dealing with

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Speaker 1: the cultural Lolita character. Here again, Stanley Kubrick had more

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Speaker 1: or less set the standard of how Lolita the character

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Speaker 1: had been presented visually up till this time. Nearly all

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Speaker 1: young actresses who had played the part since were dressed

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Speaker 1: and styled nearly identically to the way Sue Lyon was

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. Speaking of Sue Lyon, she has

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Speaker 1: this to say when getting wind that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a new adaptation of Lolita. Quote. My destruction as

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Speaker 1: a person dates from that movie. Lolita exposed me to

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Speaker 1: temptations no girl of that age should undergo. I defy

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Speaker 1: any pretty girl who is rocketed to stardom at fourteen

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Speaker 1: in a sex nymphete role to stay on a level path. Thereafter,

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Speaker 1: Line wants to do things differently, a call for a

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Speaker 1: third wave feminism era. Lolita is put out and per

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Speaker 1: the trades at the time. Over young actors audition it

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Speaker 1: said that Natalie Portman, who had played an abused twelve

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Speaker 1: year old turned hit Man's protege in the movie Luke

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Speaker 1: Bassan's Leon the professional to critical acclaim, had been offered

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Speaker 1: the part of Lolita. Portman declined just a few months ago.

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Speaker 1: A now thirty nine year old Portman had this to

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Speaker 1: say about it. I was definitely aware of the fact

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Speaker 1: that like I was being portrayed, like mainly in kind

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Speaker 1: of journalism around when the movies would come out as

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Speaker 1: like this like Lolita, figure and stuff, And I've actually

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Speaker 1: talked about it. I wrote a thing about it for

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Speaker 1: the Women's March a few years ago about how being

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Speaker 1: sexualized as a child I think took away from my

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Speaker 1: own sexuality because it made me afraid. Portman wanted out

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Speaker 1: of the roles where she was characterized as a sexually

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Speaker 1: precocious and consenting underage girl, characters whose hyper competence are

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Speaker 1: written to imply that it's okay that adult men treat

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Speaker 1: her the sexual object. Her decision not to play Lolita

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense when you know this. The

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Speaker 1: press and the public had treated her very exploitatively after

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Speaker 1: she started in the professional, with many adult men beginning

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Speaker 1: countdowns to Portman's eighteenth birthday, and she received a number

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Speaker 1: of terrifying rape threats in the mail. Not to mention,

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Speaker 1: the director of the Professional, Luke Bissan, was very credibly

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Speaker 1: accused of rape by a number of women in eighteen

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Speaker 1: and it didn't stop him from releasing a movie. The

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Speaker 1: next year, Portman played another sexualized adolescent in Ted Demi

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Speaker 1: movie Beautiful Girls, in which she and Timothy Hutton, who

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Speaker 1: is twenty one years her senior, flirt knowingly for the

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Speaker 1: entire movie, and Portman's thirteen year old character at one

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Speaker 1: point asks Hutton to wait until she's of age so

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Speaker 1: they can be together, before Hutton acknowledges that that could

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Speaker 1: never be. The movie implies that he needs to grow up,

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Speaker 1: not that it's disturbing that he considered dating a thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old in the first place. Beautiful Girls was another hit.

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Speaker 1: Portman's history of pushing against the sexualization of young actors

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Speaker 1: and her support of Times Up is further complicated by

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Speaker 1: the fact that she signed a petition back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine that demanded the immediate release of director Roman

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Speaker 1: Polanski after he was detained in Switzerland, even though roman

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Speaker 1: Polanski was being detained because he had pleaded guilty to

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Speaker 1: raping a minor in the US in ninety seven. Over

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Speaker 1: one hundred celebrities signed this petition, and at very least

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Speaker 1: Portman apologized for this in saying, quote I very much

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Speaker 1: regret it, unquote and quote I take responsibility for not

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Speaker 1: thinking about it enough unquote, but two thousand nine and

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Speaker 1: we will be talking about this very messy petition later

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Speaker 1: in the episode. I digress back to the casting of

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Speaker 1: and title character of Lolita. Other young actors rumored to

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Speaker 1: have been in the running include Christina Ricci, Melissa jan Hart,

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Speaker 1: and Jennifer Love Hewitt. In the end, the actor selected

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Speaker 1: for the part was Dominique Swain, a fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: raised in Malibu who had an audition for anything in

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Speaker 1: two years when she was invited to send in a

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Speaker 1: tape for Lolita's title character. Born in nineteen eighty, she

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Speaker 1: was bubbly and had braces and was very much a

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Speaker 1: kid of her era. Her favorite actor was Juliette Lewis,

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Speaker 1: and she had never heard of Jeremy Irons until he

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Speaker 1: mentioned that he was the bad guy in The Lion King.

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Speaker 1: Swain says this in the Esquire piece, but I think

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Speaker 1: he was kind of disappointed that I didn't know any

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Speaker 1: of his serious stuff. When speaking with Elizabeth Kay at

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Speaker 1: age sixteen, she said that she had wanted to be

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Speaker 1: an actor for the attention, to be in the spotlight

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Speaker 1: and have everyone's eyes on you, and have control over

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Speaker 1: the situation. She filmed an audition and a sliver of

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Speaker 1: her everyday life and read the copy of Nabokov's book

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Speaker 1: that her manager gave her. After reading it, she told

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Speaker 1: her manager this, it's all through Humperd's eyes. Lolita doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a point of view. I think I can give

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Speaker 1: her one. Swain has flown out auditions for Line and

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Speaker 1: it's a match. He loves her, is very impressed with

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Speaker 1: her performance and immediately starts to call her my Lolita.

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Speaker 1: Line says this of her in a later interview The

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Speaker 1: dominic Swain was a natural, really. I mean she had

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Speaker 1: never acted on any level at all, not even at school.

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Speaker 1: She'd done nothing, and she just she had less nerves,

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Speaker 1: I would say, than any actor I've ever worked with,

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Speaker 1: and she really kind of played herself. And to his credit,

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Speaker 1: Swain says to this day that Line was very careful

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Speaker 1: and kind with her on set. Here's what she said

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Speaker 1: during the press junket for the movie back in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: I think that Lolita is very similar to myself, and

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Speaker 1: not that we're going through the same circumstances, but that

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Speaker 1: we both react in whatever way it seems natural. At

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Speaker 1: the moment. Swayne and Irons did a chemistry test before

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Speaker 1: filming started, which appear as DVD extras and rack up

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of yews on YouTube today. In it,

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Speaker 1: Swayne is fourteen or fifteen and in pigtails, barefoot in

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Speaker 1: a light purple tank top and shorts on a dingy

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Speaker 1: gray couch Jeremy Irons whereas a tucked in blue polo

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Speaker 1: shirt and jeans. They try one of the movie's most

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Speaker 1: difficult scenes, one that ends in Lolita screaming murder me,

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Speaker 1: murder me like you murdered my mother. Line is there

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Speaker 1: and give Swain advice from the sidelines. Do you hear

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying? I mean, the way I'm reading it

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Speaker 1: now is is a know your line through your teeth,

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Speaker 1: and I was I want you to be a better liar.

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Speaker 1: Imagine it's your old man asking, say, you know when

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Speaker 1: a few stories, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: If I get like it's something just like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: well do that do that? It's hoping should be quicker. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they try it again. This time the scene gets physical.

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Speaker 1: You go stats, go of me, you pervert. Don't you

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Speaker 1: call me a power about that's right. Feast you filthy foreigner.

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Speaker 1: Murder me, Murder me like you murdered my mother. That

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Speaker 1: time you just heard was Jeremy Irons slapping Dominique s

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Speaker 1: wayn for real. The scene ends, Adrian Line gets up

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Speaker 1: to give Dominique notes and touches her cheek to make

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Speaker 1: sure she's okay. Irons goes to the other side of

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Speaker 1: the room and Adrian Line shows her the blocking again.

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Speaker 1: Good good things in that good things wrong cheat by

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Speaker 1: the way, Yeah, yeah, that's good. Okay, I think you've

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Speaker 1: gotta get up, you know what I'm saying. He takes

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Speaker 1: Dominique's arm shows her where she's supposed to land. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the line. She sits listening how Adrian

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Speaker 1: Line wants Jeremy Irons to say the words slut and

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Speaker 1: jokes about it before they try the scene again. It's

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Speaker 1: better than English accent. Can try that. Okay, now I'm naught,

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Speaker 1: So they take the scene again. She nails at this

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Speaker 1: time so much that Jeremy Irons forgets his lines. Adrian

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Speaker 1: Line gives Dominique a reassuring hug at the end of

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Speaker 1: the scene. The tape ends with the two actors posing

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Speaker 1: for the camera, Jeremy Irons, holding her by her arms

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Speaker 1: and giving her a kiss on the back of her

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Speaker 1: head before they set for another take. This tape is

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Speaker 1: from the Times have changed in some ways and very

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Speaker 1: much not in others Since Kubrick's nineteen sixty two adaptation.

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Speaker 1: The Hollywood and global landscape's attitude towards child sex abuse

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Speaker 1: and pop culture's attitudes towards young girls has changed quite

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Speaker 1: a bit, and much of these subtle ways, how are

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Speaker 1: captured in Elizabeth Kay's Esquire piece. In one scene where

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Speaker 1: the character of Lolita is nude, a nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: body double is used when Dominique s Wain sits on

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Iron's lap faking an orgasm while reading a comic book,

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Speaker 1: a scene that does not appear in the book of

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Speaker 1: his book. There is a cushion placed between the two

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Speaker 1: of them. Some people in the set field that this

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Speaker 1: is important to do, while other people roll their eyes

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Speaker 1: at it. K writes this in February, when the movie,

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Speaker 1: after a series of release issues we will be unpacking

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Speaker 1: in this episode, is finally approaching some level of release.

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Speaker 1: The Western world, swamped in paranoia and litigiousness, was descending

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Speaker 1: into bedlam. By striving to keep bedlam at bay, children

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Speaker 1: were urged to soothe their parents, adults deleted from their

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Speaker 1: behavior the most instinctive gestures. If you need a pull

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Speaker 1: quote that summarizes a popular attitude people had around sexualizing

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Speaker 1: children in the nine nineties, characterizing it as a general overreaction. Well,

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Speaker 1: there it is. She then quotes Jeremy Irons, who says this,

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Speaker 1: we are bringing up a generation of children who can

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Speaker 1: be touched neither in anger nor in love. Huh. This

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Speaker 1: is lowly to podcast. Welcome back to via pot Cast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and today we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about the most influential contemporary adaptation of Lolita,

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Speaker 1: Adrian Lines movie starring Jeremy Irons and Dominique swain Well.

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Speaker 1: This movie never got a full theatrical release in the US,

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Speaker 1: lost a boatload of money, and didn't garner any of

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Speaker 1: the shiny trophies it seemed to be after this movie

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Speaker 1: has endured for better and for worse. Last week we

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Speaker 1: talked about its influence on some pop music of the

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Speaker 1: era and beyond in our entire episode. Next week will

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Speaker 1: focus on online communities where images and inspiration from the mood, fashion,

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Speaker 1: and aesthetics of this movie are featured heavily. So is

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Speaker 1: it the adaptation the world was waiting for in spite

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Speaker 1: of being controversial for its time. As always, the easiest

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Speaker 1: way to know is to find out how the director

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Speaker 1: feels about the project. What say you, Adrian Line? In

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Speaker 1: the end, it's a love story. It's a strange and

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Speaker 1: awful love story. I am so sorry, Mr Lene. The

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Speaker 1: answer was literally anything except saying it was a love story.

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Speaker 1: But it's not as simple as movie bad. The reasons

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work, in my opinion, as an adaptation, are

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Speaker 1: kind of complicated. It has to do with filmmaking choices, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But to truly understand the failure slash endurance of this movie,

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Speaker 1: you need to know how the cultural and entertainment landscape

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Speaker 1: shifts in regards to Lolita, the image, Dolores, the character,

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Speaker 1: and how attitudes on both young women's body and child

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Speaker 1: sex abuse changed between the time of Stanley Kubrick's Lolita

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two and when Adrian Line's adaptation lurched

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Speaker 1: into a couple of theaters. So let's go back in

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Speaker 1: time and find out why our parents are so damaged

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Speaker 1: as much noise was made about at the time. The

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Speaker 1: Hollyway Production Code or the Haze Code, was defunct by

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Speaker 1: nine sixty eight, setting the movie industry up for a

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Speaker 1: series of shakeups that would give way to a period

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Speaker 1: of gritty, director driven movie making. The studio system era

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Speaker 1: of American movie making had ended, and the white male

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Speaker 1: auteur canon that we are taught are the modern still

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Speaker 1: mostly living greats began to dominate the industry. Stanley Koper

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Speaker 1: is one of the elder of these directors, but I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about your Francis Ford Coppela's, your Martin Scorsese is

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Speaker 1: George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Robert Altman, Brian to Palma, Sam

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Speaker 1: Peck and Pop Roman Polansky and Woody Allen, who released

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Speaker 1: independent hit after independent hit throughout the nineteen seventies. A

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Speaker 1: number of great movies are produced during this period. But

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Speaker 1: it needs be remarked that in spite of the radical

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Speaker 1: changes that this period is hailed with, all of these filmmakers,

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Speaker 1: like their predecessors in Hollywood, are straight white men. So

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Speaker 1: this means in the general sense that now many of

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Speaker 1: the taboos that were placed upon film by the Hayes

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Speaker 1: code have been lifted, meaning for the purposes of this show,

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00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: it was suddenly much easier to show both violence against

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Speaker 1: women and to sexualized children. Throughout the nineteen seventies, there

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Speaker 1: are a number of movies that are these weird, unlicensed,

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Speaker 1: sort of kind of adaptations of Nabokov's Lolita in the

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Speaker 1: low budget movie space, and once television became an accepted

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Speaker 1: and commonplace medium, the volume of this low budget, half

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Speaker 1: thought out production becomes pretty ubiquitous. None of these are

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Speaker 1: really successful enough to harp on, but I have seen

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Speaker 1: them all because this is my life now, and these

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Speaker 1: low budget sort of Lolita movies are universally aligned with

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Speaker 1: the commercialized Lolita image. In these movies, the underage are

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Speaker 1: very consenting, and it's society that is being weird about

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Speaker 1: the relationship between a nearly forty year old man and

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Speaker 1: a teenage girl. And to be clear, these all concerned

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Speaker 1: girls of high school age, and none of them concerned

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Speaker 1: the twelve year old that was Dolores Hayes of Nabokov's book.

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Speaker 1: There's movies like Anita Swedish Nymphete, a nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 1: Swedish movie that features a girl Christina Lindbergh as a

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Speaker 1: teenage nymphomaniac whose nymphomania is cured by Still in Scars Guard,

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Speaker 1: an older college boy who is nice. Not a good movie,

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Speaker 1: would not recom end. There's also a blaxploitation movie from

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five called Black Lolita, about a singer who

423
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: returns to her hometown to fight the gangsters who have

424
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: taken it over. I tried so hard to find this

425
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: movie with no luck, but it seems kind of like

426
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels e and was later renamed Wildcatwoman. Don't know.

427
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: Let me know if you have access to this movie,

428
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: I would like to see it. But the weirdest one

429
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: that stood out to me was a B movie out

430
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: of England in nineteen seventy called, depending on who you ask,

431
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: either the London Affair, Twinkie or Lola, and stars Charles

432
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: Bronson as an author in his late thirties who marries

433
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old British schoolgirl named Twinkie played by

434
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: Susan George. The opening scene of Twinkie is about the

435
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: sixteen year old Twinky being caught reading a pornographic book

436
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: by her parents. Cut to this very weird theme song.

437
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: I never met a girl like this For men, it

438
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: pretty like school. I think you're growing up two soon,

439
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: go take a look at her sixteen summers under month

440
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: or two a grown up level when the girls can't

441
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: see you freaking you will get up too soon. Little

442
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: did Twinkies parents know that she is dating Charles Brownson,

443
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: the thirty nine year old author of this erotic novel

444
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: she's reading and he's writing about her. This is a comedy,

445
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: by the way. The movie is god awful, but it

446
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: demonstrates just as clearly as the Lolita musical adaptation from

447
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one by Alan Jay Lerner, that it was

448
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: a profitable decision to frame a forty year old wilfully

449
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: committing statutory rape as a comedic hero and the prudish

450
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: society surrounding him as the villain. There's even a joke

451
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: about this from Twinky about how lenient English law was

452
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: on child sex offenders at this time. That happens right

453
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: after her parents learned she's having sex with someone their age.

454
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: What's a concern in this country? Sixteen sixteen? How do

455
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: you know every girl knows that? Anyway? I already chet

456
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: with that his lawyer, Twinky jokes that the worst thing

457
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: that will happen to Charles Bronson is having his driver's

458
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: license suspended for a year and a forty pound fine.

459
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: And in the movie that's exactly how things play out.

460
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: I said, statutory. All right, now they put on trial

461
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: this nim fetishes. How did they me? Scott? Let me

462
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: try and explain to you about the English law. No,

463
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: our case will be held by one of two judges

464
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: to have your driving license suspended for one year. You

465
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: will have your driving license suspended for one year and

466
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: of forty and you will be fine forty pounds. And

467
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: let that be a warning to Twinkie and definitely not

468
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: Humbert's love is play it out as very genuine, even

469
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: if the fact that she is a literal child appears

470
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: to be very annoying to him. They marry while she's

471
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: still underage in Scotland, and then elope to the US,

472
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: taking Twinkie away from her entire family and everyone she's

473
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: ever known. Twinkie eventually runs away and leaves him a

474
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: tearful romantic letter, saying it just won't work out at

475
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. The promotional poster at the

476
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: time read she's almost sixteen, he's almost forty. It maybe love,

477
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: but it's definitely exhausting. Oh, Scotty, you'll be my mommy

478
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: and daddy, sweethearten teacher all rolled into one my souper

479
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: new grandfather. So that's Twinkie. Meanwhile, back in the US,

480
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: the gritty male auteur had completely overtaken Hollywood by the

481
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: mid seventies, and some major releases of this era feature

482
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: young girls in highly sexualized roles. Two major examples from

483
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: this time that are still a part of good movie

484
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: cannon today are Jodie Foster and Martin Scorsese's nineteen seventy

485
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: six movie Taxi Driver, playing a child sex worker named

486
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: Iris who encounters Robert De Niro's in cell king Travis Bickle.

487
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: There was a fair amount of controversy about Foster's casting.

488
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: She was only twelve when the movie was shot. Much

489
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: was made of her character being present during a shootout scene,

490
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: and the California Labor Board made it required that she

491
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: be evaluated by a psychologist at u c l A

492
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: to make sure that she would not be scarred by

493
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: the experience. According to Foster, later in her life, she

494
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: wasn't scarred by the shootout. What stuck with her was

495
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: how her character was treated on set, saying in later

496
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: interviews that Scorsese didn't really know how to approach directing

497
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: her and that she wasn't very comfortable. Instead, Robert de

498
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: Niro generally prepared her for her and guided her through

499
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: their scenes. And then there was Woody Allen's Manhattan, released

500
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, written, directed, and starring Woody Allen

501
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: and a teenage Mariel Hemingway starring as a seventeen year

502
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: old dating a forty two year old Woody Allen. As

503
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: this premise is over and over, this is framed as

504
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 1: a rom com Woody Allen's friends judge in Nabucovy in

505
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: terms even what do you do, Tracy? I got a

506
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: high school? Really somewhere to back on this one? Manhattan

507
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: was nominated for two Oscars the following year, one for

508
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: Best Screenplay and the other was for Mariel Hemingway as

509
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: Best Supporting Actress. The part she's playing as Tracy, who

510
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: reassures Allen's character Isaac that things might work out for

511
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: them even when they part. At the end of the movie,

512
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: do you still love me? What do you love me?

513
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: Do you have it? Swowy's of course, that's what's so about.

514
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: I guess what. I turned eighteen the other day. I'm legal,

515
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: but I'm still a kid. Can you know such a

516
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: kid eighteen years old? They could draft you. A girl

517
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: Tracy possesses a wisdom and certainty that I felt when

518
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: wanting the movie for the first time. Leads us to

519
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: believe that she's not just able to consent, but she's

520
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: wiser than an adult woman. Why wouldn't Isaac choose her?

521
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: I don't need to tell you this, but this blotline,

522
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: praised brilliantly upon its release, could not have aged worse,

523
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: and it was considered pretty creepy by a small faction

524
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: of critics way before allegations of Allan's sexual abuse ever

525
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: even surfaced. Not only did Alan date and Mary Sunyi Preven,

526
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: the daughter of his ex partner, Mia Farrow Suni, being

527
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: a full thirty five years his junior, Alan was also

528
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: accused of molesting his own six year old daughter, Dylan.

529
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: While the courts absolved him, Dylan maintains her truth to

530
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: this day, with the support of her mother and many

531
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: of her siblings, and on Allan's end, Manhattan being considered

532
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: his greatest movie and being one that casually permits statutory rape. Yeah,

533
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: but in the late seventies, permitting and romanticizing the relationship

534
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: between Hemingway and Alan's characters was very okay with most

535
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: viewers and critics. The movie was a huge hit. Mariel

536
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: Hemingway shared some of her experiences with Woody Allen. She

537
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: said that less than two weeks after she had turned eighteen,

538
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: Allen attempted to convince Hemingway to come to Paris to

539
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: see him. Hemingway said this a relationship was platonic, but

540
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: I started to see that he had a kind of

541
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: crush on me, though I dismissed it as a kind

542
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: of thing that seemed to happen anytime middle aged men

543
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: got around young women. Hemingway informed her parents of his request.

544
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: She says that I didn't know what the arrangement was

545
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: going to be. That I wasn't sure if I was

546
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: going to have my own room wood. He hadn't said that,

547
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: he hadn't even hinted it, But I wanted them to

548
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: put their foot down. They didn't. They kept lightly encouraging me. Ultimately,

549
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: Hemmingway declined Alan's invitation and was too uncomfortable to meet

550
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: with him. She said that she realized that no one

551
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: was going to have their own room. His plans, such

552
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: as it was, involved being with me. Hemingway says she

553
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: went into his guest room and woke Alan up, asking,

554
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get my own room, am I?

555
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: I can't go to Paris with you. I would also

556
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: recommend checking out writer Michael Schulman's guest episode of the

557
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: You Must Remember This podcast for a close read of

558
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: Mariel Hemingway and her sister Margot's early years in Hollywood.

559
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: Hemmingway's kiss with Alan on screen in Manhattan was her

560
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: first kiss ever when filming the movie at age sixteen.

561
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: This is something she shared in common with another seventies

562
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: star who was featured in a very different movie about

563
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: an underage girl in a relationship with a grown and

564
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking about an eleven year old Brookshields in a

565
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight movie called Pretty Baby. Pretty Baby is

566
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: one of the few movies that leads up to lines

567
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: Lolita in that centers nearly its entire plot on child

568
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: sex abuse in a way that seems conscious of it,

569
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: where the Twin Kies and the Manhattan's of the World

570
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: regarded statutory rape as a forbidden love that could be funny.

571
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: Pretty Baby is about the dangers of child prostitution in

572
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: many ways. The movie was directed by Louis Mall, written

573
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: by Polly Platt, and stars a then eleven year old

574
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Brookshield as Violet, who is a child sex worker in

575
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: New Orleans in nineteen seventeen, living in a brothel. Midway

576
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: into the movie, her virginity is auctioned off to the

577
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: highest bidder. Violet is the daughter of a sex worker

578
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: named Hattie played by Susan Sarandon, who abandons Violet when

579
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: she marries a rich man and is able to leave

580
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: the brothel. Looming over these events is an adult photographer

581
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: named Bullock played by Keith Carradine. He becomes Violet's cure

582
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: take her when she is left by her mother, an

583
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: arrangement that quickly results in his having sex with and

584
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: marrying her, all while Violet is only twelve. At the

585
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: end of the movie, prostitution becomes illegal in New Orleans,

586
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: so Block and Violet get married and leave town with

587
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: a number of other sex workers. Hattie eventually returns to

588
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: find her daughter with her new husband after a long search,

589
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: terminating the marriage and taking Violet with her to get

590
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: an education and live a normal life with her new family.

591
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: So first I want to touch on Polly Platt, who

592
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: had built up her career behind the scenes of her

593
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: then husband Peter Bogdanovich in movies like The Last Picture

594
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: Show and Paper Moon. While she was credited only as

595
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: a production designer on these movies, it's well documented that

596
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: she worked more in a producer and collaborative capacity, but

597
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: was never credited as such. There is an amazing ten

598
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: part series on Polly Platt by green a long Worth

599
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: from called Polly Platt The Invisible Woman, a part of

600
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: her Fabulous Show. You must remember this that I highly

601
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: recommend to learn more because the context of Platt's life

602
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: and where this movie falls into it is really fascinating.

603
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: But in short, Pretty Baby was Platt's opportunity to shine.

604
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: It's her first screenplay credit, and she's credited as an

605
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: associate producer on the project as well, although as always

606
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: she was doing more behind the scenes. Platt had seen

607
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: a photo of Brookshield modeling in a magazine and cast

608
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: her with permission from Brooks mother. Brookshield had a very

609
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: difficult childhood. She had an alcoholic mother who was present

610
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: during the filming of Pretty Baby and was repeatedly kicked

611
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: off the set and interfered with her daughter's daily life

612
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: throughout a shoot with already very delicate material. Shielda's mother

613
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: even sent Polly Platt to the e er after allegedly

614
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: biting her at a bar and breaking the skin. Shields

615
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: has chronicled disabuse in her memoirs, particularly the book There

616
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: Was a Little Girl The Real Story of My Mother

617
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: and Me from as well as by Corina Longworth in

618
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: her series on Polly Platt. The story behind Shielda's life

619
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: on the set of Pretty Baby alone is deeply complicated,

620
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: but to summarize, shield was acting out some very difficult

621
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: material that requires she appear naked on screen while eleven

622
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: years old, and was dealing with the personal traumas of

623
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: an alcoholic parent all before her twelfth birthday. Here's how

624
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: Shields reflected on her experience with director Louis mall In.

625
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: You know, I had that squeaky, high little kid's voice.

626
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: I was not Lolita. I was not I was sweet

627
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: and yet um He said that I looked mature, but

628
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: I was still a very much a little kid, and

629
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: he said that was he didn't want a provocative and

630
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: not like a girl cognizant of her sexuality, and that

631
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: was definitely me. Pretty Baby is, for my money, not

632
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: a badly made or written movie. What it is is

633
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: a movie that features the nudity of a very young

634
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: child and as actual context in a way that is

635
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: really difficult to watch, even without the behind the scenes

636
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: context of Brookshields his life at this time. Sitting from

637
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: one it is inconceivable that this would or should ever

638
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: happen in a movie, but at the time it warranted

639
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: a little more than an R rating. Karena Lungworth makes

640
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: a convincing argument in her series that Polyplattz script reflected

641
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: some harsh critiques on how willing Hollywood was to sexualize

642
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: young girls in the nineteen seventies, as well as some

643
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: autobiographical references to Platt's own life and anxieties connecting to

644
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: cycles of abuse concerning mothers and daughters. Come on, Violet,

645
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: why don't you packed? I don't want to go, Violet,

646
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: I am your mother. No you're not even say so

647
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: all the time. And on top of seeing an eleven

648
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: year old naked at several points in the movie scenes

649
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: that would have been illegal to film just eighteen years later.

650
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: We also se her Kisski Krradeene many many times, even

651
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: with the maximum amount of onset support that we know

652
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: was not present on this production. It's beyond no longer

653
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: considered an appropriate thing to ask of a child performer period.

654
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: It was a really difficult watch for me, one made

655
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: more difficult with the context. Shield reflections on this time

656
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: in her life are very interesting. Here's a little more

657
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: of that interview from just wants to be taken away

658
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: and taken care of and loved, and in her world,

659
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: that's what that was, and that's the way she grew up.

660
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: What I found most interesting about this interview was that

661
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: it wasn't the onset experience where Brookshields held much trauma.

662
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: It was her reception in the press, and this is

663
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: a commonly cited experience from actors who have played Lolita

664
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: over the years as well. I never once felt taken

665
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: advantage of our victimized. All of that came after in

666
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: the press. What Pretty Baby has going for its story

667
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: wise is that it is invested in the trauma and

668
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: the impossibility of its protagonist situation and I think a

669
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: lot of that comes down to Polly Platt's writing, as

670
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: well as the cinematography done by famous Swedish cinematographer Sven

671
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: nike Fist, who I thought it was cool Brookshield ends

672
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: up writing an entire thesis paper about later in her life.

673
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: But I especially like about Pretty Baby is that many

674
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: of the critical moments of this movie we see through

675
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: Violet's eyes via Nikifist's camera. This movie is full of

676
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: women observing how they're looked at, looking at themselves, looking

677
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: at each other. And for all the extremely valid criticism

678
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: there is around how Shields his body is treated, this

679
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: element of women seeing each other and seeing how men

680
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: look at them is very unique for its time. Pretty

681
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: Baby starts with a scene of Violet watching her mother

682
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: give birth. We see the entire scene where Violet's virginity

683
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: is auctioned off for four hundred dollars through her eyes,

684
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: and it's not a flattering depiction of the men who

685
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: are bidding. In Violet's eyes. They are red and bloated

686
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: and old and leering, and she's scared and you can tell, hey,

687
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: how do we know she is a virgin? If I

688
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: have belied to you? Before satisfaction guarantee. As it relates

689
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: to Lolita, it struck me in watching this movie how

690
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: Dolores Hayes's life is full of moments like this, but

691
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 1: no adaptation I've seen ever takes the opportunity to show

692
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: us her predicament through her eyes, to show us how

693
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: Humbert looks to her, even though you wouldn't need to

694
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: add a word of dialogue to accomplish this. Violet, like Dolores,

695
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: is an outspoken twelve year old trying to navigate her

696
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: own sexuality and coming of age while in an extremely

697
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: traumatic and impossible situation. For Dolores, it is being kidnapped

698
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: and sexually abused by a near stranger. For Violet, it

699
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: is being made to be a sex worker at twelve

700
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: whose mother is not able to care for her as

701
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: she needs to be cared for. Pretty Baby holds a strange,

702
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: uncomfortable place in movie history, as it was Pretty indisputably

703
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: a source of trauma for its underage actor protagonist. What

704
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: makes it stand out is that it was a story

705
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: about child sex abuse of a girl trying to survive

706
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: under the most impossible circumstances in a cruel world, and

707
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: it at least appeared to be aware of and very

708
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: sympathetic to that. Granted, the ending scene where Violet leaves

709
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: with her mother after being married to Bullock for two weeks,

710
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: I think we're supposed to be sad for him. Well,

711
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: you cannot take her. I can't live without her. But

712
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: unlike all the movies we've discussed so far today, Pretty

713
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: Baby was not labeled a story of forbidden love. Even

714
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: though the age gap and power dynamics between Bullock and

715
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: Violet are very similar to the movies we described earlier.

716
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: This isn't an accident, partially because Block is not our

717
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: unreliable narrator, and we aren't being told the story through

718
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: his eyes. In this movie, our narrative priority and sympathies

719
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: lie with Violet Ye Polliplatt's script has no interest in

720
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: concealing Violet's trauma from us in the way that Lolita's narrator,

721
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: the Abuser does, and Block, while filling a similar role

722
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: to Humbert Humbert in Violets life in that we are

723
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: rarely asked to sympathize with him. He appears as a meek,

724
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: sort of pathetic figure in the story who has played

725
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: very ambiguously by Keith Carradine, definitely not a sexy, heroic type. Greena.

726
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: Lungworth mentions that this likely would have been different if

727
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: Polly Platt's top pick for the part, Jack Nicholson, had

728
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: gotten to play the role. So child's abuse was frequently

729
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: brought up in movies of the seventies and eighties, but

730
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: in the most high profile productions, it was rarely characterized

731
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: as something that was too much to worry about, and

732
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 1: in fact, most of the children being abused in these

733
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: films were written to be very knowing and consenting. It

734
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: says something for this era that Pretty Baby stands out

735
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: in the crowd in a way that ultimately feels pretty bleak.

736
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: It's a movie that monetizes the image of a naked child,

737
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: but unlike most movies we've discussed, it isn't endorsing statutory

738
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: rape or molestation, which, if nothing else, demonstrated to me

739
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: how very much on the floor the bar for talking

740
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: about child sex abuse in movies was at this time.

741
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: While Pretty Baby was in production, in three year old

742
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: director Roman Polanski was arrested on six charges involving drugging

743
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: and raping a thirteen year old girl named Samantha June

744
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: Gaily or Samantha Geimer. I'm about to discuss the details

745
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 1: of what happened, including a description from Geymer herself forty

746
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: years later. So a heavy content morning going into this section,

747
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: fast forward three minutes. If it's not something you're in

748
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: a place to hear about. The charges against him were

749
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: this rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, allude, and

750
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: lascivious act upon a child under fourteen, unlawful sexual intercourse

751
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: with a female under the age of eighteen, and furnishing

752
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: a controlled substance to a miner. You may know of

753
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: this story already. Polanski was famous for movies like Rosemary's

754
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: Baby in Chinatown. At this time, Anne had faced the

755
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: tragedy of his pregnant wife Charentate, being brutally murdered by

756
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,959
Speaker 1: the Manson family in the late nineteen sixties. In March

757
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, Polanski took child model Samantha Geimer to

758
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: do a private photo shoot that he claimed would be

759
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: featured in French Vogue. Her mother asked to be present,

760
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: but Polansky said no, and she eventually allowed it. At

761
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: their second photo shoot, Polansky brought Geimer to Jack Nicholson's

762
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive mansion while he was away on a ski trip.

763
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: Polanski gave Geimer aqualude and Champagne then raped her repeatedly.

764
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: She discussed this in two thousand nine on sixty Minutes. Yeah,

765
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: when he wanted to get into jacuzzi, I knew I

766
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: was in trouble, Like, wait, this is not what he's

767
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing. And I didn't know what was

768
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: going to happen, but I knew whatever was on his

769
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: mind was not a good thing. Romans fame at that time,

770
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: he was very powerful, very well known. I think when

771
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 1: you're wealthy or powerful or well known, people don't say

772
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 1: no to you, and you have like this different view

773
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: of life where you're accustomed to getting what you want.

774
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: We're going into this dark room together. Um, but you know,

775
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: he wasn't forceful, and I was scared and confused and high,

776
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: and so I just kind of didn't really know how

777
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: to resist that besides say I'd rather not know. And

778
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: then when that didn't change his mind, I just didn't

779
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: know what else to do. I was unprepared. Polanski pleaded

780
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: guilty to engaging in intercourse with a minor, spent only

781
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: forty two days in prison for violating his parole, and

782
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: then fled the country, and he's never returned to this day,

783
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: all while continuing to work relatively uninterrupted. He has been

784
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: a convicted sex offender since the late nineteen seventies and

785
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: won an Oscar for Best Director in two thousand and two.

786
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: This is a very complicated story, and I will link

787
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: additional resources in the description, But make no mistake, Polanski

788
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: clearly did not anticipate any consequences for raping a child

789
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: and was outraged that any materialized. He admitted it, and

790
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,959
Speaker 1: it didn't stop him from working in film relatively free

791
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: of stigma up until very recently. I'll refer back to

792
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: that two thousand nine petition to release Polansky that Natalie

793
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: Portman signed, along with one other prominent celebrities such as

794
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: Brace Yourself, David Lynch, Martin Scorsese, Darren Aronofski, Assia Argento,

795
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson, Terry Gilliam, Alejandro Innaratu, Tilda Swinton. That one

796
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: hurts and as you could guess, Woody Allen, the same

797
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: Woody Allen, who was defended by several high profile celebrities

798
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: to this day. Oh yeah, and you know who else

799
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: signed this damn thing? Jeremy motherfucking Irons he is. We're

800
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: going to talk about his track record in part two

801
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: of this episode. But for an actor who played the

802
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: world's most famous fictional child sex abuser, boy, does he

803
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: defend Roman Polanski, an actual child sex abuser? A lot

804
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: Portman is, to her credit, one of the only celebrities

805
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: who was publicly withdrawn support of the two thousand nine petition,

806
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: even though the celebrities I listed were reached out to

807
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: withdraw their apport in eighteen after the start of the

808
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: Me Too movement. So regrets to tell the Swinton fans there.

809
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: I'll remind you here that child sex abuse in Hollywood

810
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: was nothing new in the nineteen seventies. It was a

811
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: problem as old as the industry itself, beginning with lecherous

812
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: studio heads praying on underage stars and high profile cases

813
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: like Charlie Chaplin's, And while there were always vocal critics

814
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: of those who continued to work with Alan and Polanski,

815
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: it certainly wasn't enough people to prevent these men from

816
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: remaining extremely successful. After child sex abuse allegations surfaced, Roman Polanski,

817
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: as I said one an Oscar. In two thousand two,

818
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: Woody Allen was nominated for an Oscar as recently as

819
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: I can't separate art from the artist here, and if

820
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: you can, please don't email me about it. I just

821
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: I have too many ex boyfriends who have just waxed

822
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: poetic about how am I going to watch Annie Hall now?

823
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: And it's like, I really don't care. I really don't care.

824
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: Don't email me about it. Thank you. Okay, let's get

825
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: out of the nineteen seventies immediately. Meanwhile, outside of the

826
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: entertainment sphere, the eighties happen and a strange but persistent

827
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: friction develops. There is now a prevalent cultural fear of

828
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: children being kidnapped and murdered. A lot of this is

829
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: connected to the Milk Carton Kids campaign, which began in

830
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: four as a part of a campaign run by the

831
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: National Child Safety Council that sought to bring images of

832
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 1: missing children to the breakfast tables of other families, both

833
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: as a public service message and arguably a veiled warning

834
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: that if you're not careful, this could happen to you.

835
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: A police commander from Chicago told the Associated Press about

836
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: the program back in their faces will be there at

837
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: the breakfast table. People will have to think about it.

838
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: The Milk Carton Kids comprise some of the most memorable

839
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: child abduction cases of the century, and once that there

840
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: were an incredible amount of national and global attention on

841
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 1: each and every one of these cases were deeply tragic

842
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: and very upsetting, as well as demonstrating a pattern on

843
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: the press's part to repeatedly spotlight the exact same type

844
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: of crime, that being the abduction of a middle class

845
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: or upper middle class white child by a stranger. Now granted,

846
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: both the Milk Carton campaign and the Amber Alert system

847
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: that's still in place today have a pretty high success rate.

848
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: And it's starting with the Milk Cartons of the nineteen

849
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: eighties that child sex abuse and abduction enters into the

850
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: daily lives and thoughts of both parents and children. Consider

851
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 1: the Eton Pat's case in ninety nine, the original Milk

852
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: Carton kid who was abducted and killed at age six

853
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: at a Manhattan school bus stop. Consider Johnny Goosh, a

854
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: twelve year old from Iowa from two or eleven year

855
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: old Jacob Wetterling being abducted and murdered in nine nine

856
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: on his way home from a video store. A number

857
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: of young girls were also abducted, sexually abused, and sometimes murdered,

858
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: now covered in the early years of the twenty four

859
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: hour news cycle. There's j. C. Dugard, who was abducted

860
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: in nine at age eleven and was held hostage for

861
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: eighteen years by a convicted sex offender. Polly Class who

862
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: was kidnapped and murdered from her own sleepover at age twelve.

863
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: In these stories were terrifying, highly publicized, and overwhelmingly featured

864
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: young white children being abducted by strangers from middle class

865
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: or affluent neighborhoods. As a period in history and in

866
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: media that in many ways is still with us, you

867
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: might recognize some of the names of these victims because

868
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: of the extreme uptick in true crime media from the

869
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,439
Speaker 1: past ten years. And with this elevated press surrounding these

870
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: types of crimes came stranger Danger programs, ones that most

871
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: of us probably remember from school. These were publicly funded

872
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: campaigns that warned children not to trust adults they don't know.

873
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: These types of p s as existed before the nineteen eighties,

874
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: but with the mill Carton kids come a swift hike

875
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 1: in this kind of education. Becoming common in schools. Here's

876
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: a bit of one of the more popular stranger danger

877
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: p s, a s of the nineteen eighties. You've taught

878
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: your children to be polite and friendly, but have you

879
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: taught them when not to be? Do you live around

880
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: here you're going to school? Well, I could give you

881
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 1: a riot. Last year, fifty children disappeared, many of them

882
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: from nice, safe neighborhoods. Come on, I'll talk to your

883
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: children about not talking to strangers, and do it today.

884
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: A message for your child safety from the American Medical Association.

885
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: And I'll let you interpret the extremely loaded phrase quote

886
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: unquote nice neighborhoods for yourself. The primary concern that stranger

887
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: danger campaigns were trying to combat was child sexual abuse,

888
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: but always centered the safety of white and financially secure children.

889
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: The framing of this issue during this time arguably led

890
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: to an up take in mass incarceration in the US.

891
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: And I'm going to link some resources in the description

892
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: of where this public discourse led down the line not

893
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: to mention this campaign is going on in the midst

894
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: of the Reagan administration, refusing to address the escalating AIDS

895
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: crisis and American homophobia is at an all time high.

896
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: There is a lot of American prejudice cooked into these innocuous,

897
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: seeming p says, And all this was done while ignoring

898
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: the fact that the danger that strangers posed may not

899
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: be as significant as it was implied. Let me explain.

900
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: That's not to say that strangers do not pose a

901
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: danger to children. In many cases, they very much have.

902
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: But what's missing from this conversation, particularly at this time,

903
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: is the possibility that abuse and mistreatment could be committed

904
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: by someone a child knows already, and that's a very

905
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: important fact to leave out. Rain The Rape, Abuse and

906
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: Incest National Network indicates that only seven percent of reported

907
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: abuse inflicted upon children come from complete strangers. The other

908
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: comes from a person already known to the child. So

909
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: these programs, while while intentioned, we're seeking to resolve a

910
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 1: problem that was far less common than the stranger danger

911
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: videos were indicating. Maybe you remember these types of programs

912
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: from when you were a kid. One of my earliest

913
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: earthly memories was of one of these stranger dangerous songs.

914
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: It was on a Barney VHS tape. You know, the

915
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: gigantic purple dinosaur that my generation carries. The psychic weight

916
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: of on our backs every day they ever talk to strangers.

917
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: That's very good advice, because you just can't tell if

918
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: they are good or bad, even though they may seem nice,

919
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: even though they may seem nice. Viewing Lolita or Dolora

920
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: Hayes in the context of this stranger danger era is

921
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: infinitely frustrating because again, I feel that Nobulkov had a

922
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: stronger grip on the more common scenario that leads to

923
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: repeated child sexual abuse than American legislators did over thirty

924
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: years after its publication in nine. Dolores Hayes belongs very

925
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: firmly to that group of children that who are abused

926
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: by a person who is known to them Humbert. Humbert

927
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: was well known to Dolores Hayes before the abuse began.

928
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: He had groomed her, he had worked his way into

929
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: her family through lies, gas lighting, and violence. This by

930
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: far is the most common scenario, so there's a lot

931
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: of fear around protecting children at this time. But in

932
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: these same years, the culture's willingness to sexualize adolescence continues

933
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: to ascend more or less uninterrupted, and yes, it leads

934
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: us right back to another disservice of Dolores Hayes come

935
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: back for part two of this episode, which we will

936
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: be releasing in two days. Sorry, things are too funked

937
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: up for one episode. We'll lead to podcasts. An I

938
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: Heart Radio production. It is written and hosted by me

939
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus. It is produced by Sophie Lichtman, Beth Anne Macaluso,

940
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: Miles Gray, and Jack O'Brien. It is edited by the

941
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: wonderful Isaac Taylor. Music is from Zoe Bladed, theme is

942
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: from Brad Dickert and My guest voices this week are

943
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: Sophie Lichderman, Miles Gray, Isaac Taylor, and Julia Claire. See

944
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: you next time