Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Doug Gold. Have been welcome in to this
Speaker 1: week's edition of All Ball. We got a great show
Speaker 1: for you, a great pod for you. Excuse me as
Speaker 1: Stephen Pearl, assistant coach at Auburn who just won the
Speaker 1: SEC Tournament, went to the Final four and lost on
Speaker 1: on a crazy, crazy series of events that led to
Speaker 1: Kyle Guy making three free throws in a row. Um
Speaker 1: Seeen Pearl is gonna join us. We'll talk about his
Speaker 1: personal journey to becoming an assistant coach, playing for his dad,
Speaker 1: what this has been like being beside his dad as
Speaker 1: a player when he got fired at Tennessee, what he
Speaker 1: did one when his dad went to TV, and how
Speaker 1: he's climbed the ladder at Auburn to be under the
Speaker 1: defensive guru if you will for the Auburn Tigers in
Speaker 1: the SEC Tournament championship and Final four run. But I
Speaker 1: want to start with a guy who passed away this
Speaker 1: week at the age of eighty one. His name is
Speaker 1: John mc loud and um kind of quick rundown of
Speaker 1: John McCloud. He was the head coach at Oklahoma with
Speaker 1: Alvin Adams. He then went to the pros and was
Speaker 1: head coach of the Phoenix Suns, coached in what many
Speaker 1: people believe to be the greatest NBA game of all
Speaker 1: time for overtime NBA Finals game against the Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1: He was later the head coach of Dallas Mavericks in
Speaker 1: the New York Nicks. And he was my head coach
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame. And while I would be honest, like
Speaker 1: he really unique career path right, Like he was a boxer,
Speaker 1: he was not a basketball player growing up, and then
Speaker 1: he was a high school coach before he became a
Speaker 1: college coach. So just unique in terms of the comparison
Speaker 1: to my life growing up at a basketball household. That said,
Speaker 1: what what basketball lost, maybe what society lost was a
Speaker 1: complete and total gentleman. And some of these things are
Speaker 1: kind of funny and clever and interesting. And I'll have
Speaker 1: some of a couple of my former teammates on who
Speaker 1: are on the bigger and brighter things since playing at
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. But I first met him or first talked
Speaker 1: to him on the phone in ninety four I got
Speaker 1: home from a b C D camp. Back then there
Speaker 1: was Nike and a b C D. We were uh
Speaker 1: Sonny Mcaro, ABC d kind of group. Our high school
Speaker 1: team AU team. Sonny had sponsored us back when he
Speaker 1: was at Nike, and we followed him to Converse and
Speaker 1: then to Adidas. Got home from abc D, which was
Speaker 1: at fairly Dickinson. Year before, I hadn't played as well
Speaker 1: at Ypsilanti. I was young, and um, I was okay.
Speaker 1: And then I started getting recruited by a couple of
Speaker 1: high majors. And then Notre Dame called the first day
Speaker 1: I got home, and I'll never get the phone call. Uh, doggie,
Speaker 1: coach John McLeod, head coach of not Tre Dame, how'd
Speaker 1: you like to be a member of the Irish? And
Speaker 1: I was like, coach, I have no name is a
Speaker 1: grade school And he said, good tomorrow we're gonna announce
Speaker 1: we're going to the Big East Conference. You watched the
Speaker 1: Big East Conference? And I was like, yeah, coach, and mean,
Speaker 1: I grew up loving the Big East. You know, Scott
Speaker 1: McCorkle and Mike Hopkins and law On Ellis and played
Speaker 1: for my dad. Um, and of course my mom went
Speaker 1: to Syracuse and watch Yukon and Georgetown and and and
Speaker 1: Villanova and Boston College and all those teams on to
Speaker 1: tomorrow we're an announced not Tre Dame is gonna join
Speaker 1: the Big East Conference and you'd be my starting point
Speaker 1: guard the first year in the Big East. How's that sounding?
Speaker 1: It was like, as I'd love to go, I'd love
Speaker 1: to take a visit to Notre Dame. I had. I
Speaker 1: didn't grow up I'm gonna grow up Jewish. I grew
Speaker 1: up in Irish Catholic Notre Dame fan, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to see Notre Dame play football against Michigan, and I
Speaker 1: got that wish. It was an amazing weekend. And you know,
Speaker 1: they're trying to convince us that that's not that's not
Speaker 1: touchdown Jesus, that's three point Jesus. But here's the thing, Um,
Speaker 1: most of you are basketball dudes, are basketball ladies that
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast. You know that perception does not
Speaker 1: match reality. Sometimes recruiters can be a little great with
Speaker 1: the truth. Head coaches can as well, but there's often
Speaker 1: more and more good people than there are bad people
Speaker 1: in this sport. John McCloud was the best of of
Speaker 1: those type of people. He meant when he said that
Speaker 1: what he meant, and I've just I've never met a
Speaker 1: man that that was such a gentleman a right like
Speaker 1: literally a gentleman would not scream at you, would not
Speaker 1: curse at you. And everything he said he would do
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame for me he did. I didn't live
Speaker 1: up to my end of the bargain. He lived up
Speaker 1: to his. So from the from the moment I first
Speaker 1: arrived Notre Dame until the time even after I left,
Speaker 1: he always did what he said and said what he
Speaker 1: would do. So, um, I share a couple of a
Speaker 1: couple of quick stories. So John McCloud was um. He
Speaker 1: was a gentleman and he believed Notre Dame, Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: we have to dress with class. They watch us, and
Speaker 1: so we were coating tie every airplane, every bus ride,
Speaker 1: and when we were in the we're in the hotel,
Speaker 1: like you couldn't dress like a slob, like you had
Speaker 1: to wear your Nike Notre Dame sweats and a specific
Speaker 1: shirt underneath, and anthing had to be tucked in. Everything
Speaker 1: had to be With the exception of Keith Krowski from
Speaker 1: Christian Brothers, Um Jersey Kid who had some boogers on
Speaker 1: his sleep with that is the exception. Everybody was like
Speaker 1: clean shaven, looked kind, of well put together. He used
Speaker 1: to make us. You get up to leave the table,
Speaker 1: and you weren't dismissed until you tucked your chair in
Speaker 1: under the table. Look people in the eye. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget my first team meeting at Notre Dame. He drew
Speaker 1: up like a makeshift auditorium and he circles the first
Speaker 1: two rows and he says, not, they're not they're not there,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. We sit in the first two rows and
Speaker 1: we we honestly had the ability to audible out of practice,
Speaker 1: out of any sort of workout. If if it was
Speaker 1: pertaining to school, you had to study for a test,
Speaker 1: go we'll see, let it go and um he he
Speaker 1: said that would be his and no matter how bad
Speaker 1: or how tough the season was, that's what we would do. Um.
Speaker 1: He didn't raise his voice to you. He would get
Speaker 1: stern and he would get mad, and he would say,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, we're in a tour. But if you really
Speaker 1: wanted to lay India, he would you'd get back to
Speaker 1: your dorm room to be a red blinking light, to
Speaker 1: be a secretary. He'd say, Coach would want to see
Speaker 1: you at such and such time to come in. Should
Speaker 1: be very nice. He'd be very nice and formal, shake
Speaker 1: your hand, walking and close the door. And that's when
Speaker 1: he would play some tape and it wasn't usually good. Uh.
Speaker 1: He he was a man of immense class, respect, dignity,
Speaker 1: and integrity. And I you know, like, look, it might
Speaker 1: be selfish to to say, or self I don't know
Speaker 1: what the term is, like egotistical, I think to say,
Speaker 1: but I have no doubt had I not gotten in
Speaker 1: trouble and at Notre Dame, he would have kept his
Speaker 1: job longer because we were you know, as Peccarty was
Speaker 1: a sophomore, I was a freshman, and Tony Weisch and
Speaker 1: Phil Hickey were freshman as well, and we were adding
Speaker 1: a really good recruiting asked and my boy, David Lalasarian
Speaker 1: was coming out from my high school. And you know,
Speaker 1: by my senior year, I have no doubt that was
Speaker 1: the year he got fired. After what would have my
Speaker 1: senior year we got fired. We would have made an
Speaker 1: n c A tournament, right we we would have made
Speaker 1: an n c A tourament he would have kept his job.
Speaker 1: And even after that he wasn't better. Well. I posted
Speaker 1: a letter on Facebook. He wasn't bitter. He wasn't a jerk.
Speaker 1: He was always so classy and so dignified, even though
Speaker 1: I had done his program wrong, not just in my
Speaker 1: actions and the way it made his program look. But
Speaker 1: remember at Notre Dame at that point in time, they
Speaker 1: weren't They weren't allowed to take transfers. You couldn't go late.
Speaker 1: There were no grad transfers. There were no transfers period.
Speaker 1: Late in the year. They didn't take any. We had
Speaker 1: guys that want to transfer and play. He couldn't take any.
Speaker 1: That was the university's policy. Obviously, it changed the second
Speaker 1: he got fired. I think Matt Doherty got to take
Speaker 1: Ryan Humphries from Oklahoma and and and history changed. So look,
Speaker 1: you can remember him as an incredible college coach. You
Speaker 1: can remember him as a coach who coached Alvin Adams
Speaker 1: to success at Oklahoma, or a coach for a short
Speaker 1: period time at at Notre Dame. We ran what would
Speaker 1: be kind of blocker mover or I called a two
Speaker 1: side motion. We're a lot of NBA sets um. There
Speaker 1: was some de defensively, we forced middle. We were kind
Speaker 1: of pack line before anybody called it PAC line. But
Speaker 1: I think he should be remembered as a guy that
Speaker 1: carried himself with incredible class, dignity, and integrity. And U
Speaker 1: I mean he even smelled good. His hair was always cut.
Speaker 1: He I never saw him unshaven ever. Like you know,
Speaker 1: you're around the guy an entire year. You think there's
Speaker 1: one day he comes in. You're like, man, he must
Speaker 1: have stayed up late watching tape. Nope, not not not.
Speaker 1: Johnny Mack passed away at the age of eighty one
Speaker 1: years old. A legendary NBA head coach who I got
Speaker 1: a chance to play for my year Notre Dame. Um,
Speaker 1: let me kind of quickly give you I want to
Speaker 1: play for you. A clip of what Kevin Durant said
Speaker 1: to the media in regards to why people think he's
Speaker 1: being passive. We had a nice floor of the game.
Speaker 1: You know, let's go back to the whole last month
Speaker 1: of the season. We've been flying this way for a
Speaker 1: while and we got to this series. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: game one, you had some nice moment. They're playing to
Speaker 1: give me a defense which has been working top bocking
Speaker 1: everything on the perimeter. So guy's not even looking at
Speaker 1: the three point line. They're just forcing guys inside the
Speaker 1: three point line. And so for us when I get
Speaker 1: the ball in my spots, you know, I got a
Speaker 1: pat Patrick Beverley who was up underneath me. Well, I
Speaker 1: could definitely shoot at the top and score every time
Speaker 1: if it's a one on one situation. But we got
Speaker 1: a guy that's dropping and helping. And then we got
Speaker 1: another guy that's just sitting on me. Wait, wait for
Speaker 1: me to drive with the basketball. I put the basketball
Speaker 1: on the floor. I can you know, I could probably
Speaker 1: make in my shots if I shoot him like that,
Speaker 1: But that's not really gonna do nothing for us at
Speaker 1: uh the outcome of the game, you know, because we've
Speaker 1: got a nice floor. Everybody touching the rock. Now, you
Speaker 1: may not want to hear it and you may not
Speaker 1: want to accept it, and you may wonder why k
Speaker 1: D would get a pass from people. I don't think
Speaker 1: he does. I think it's pretty interesting. Like here's a
Speaker 1: guy who people have said too much of ball stopper,
Speaker 1: too much one on one. He kind of ruins what
Speaker 1: Golden State is and then he tries to buy into
Speaker 1: what Golden States doing and they get beat. They did
Speaker 1: lead like I I went bury the lead. They were
Speaker 1: up thirty one points. His passive nature was working. He
Speaker 1: wasn't on the floor for all of the thirty one
Speaker 1: point comeback, but I thought that was really interesting. Look,
Speaker 1: they're playing a defense which I got one underneath me,
Speaker 1: and I got a dude waiting for me, and we
Speaker 1: gotta figure out why he's to score. They're running us
Speaker 1: off the three point line, and our attack, however flawed,
Speaker 1: it became we were up thirty one points. I find
Speaker 1: Kevin Rant to be amazing to watch. I'm interested to
Speaker 1: see what he does in game three. I'm fascinated by
Speaker 1: the idea that even though he outplayed Lebron James in
Speaker 1: the last two NBA finals, and he's won an NBA
Speaker 1: m v P, and he can play both ends and
Speaker 1: he has a virtually unstoppable pull up jump shot, he
Speaker 1: still can't seem to win people over. Why because because
Speaker 1: he fights the people on Twitter? Or is it because
Speaker 1: he left the Oklahoma City Thunder. One of the reason
Speaker 1: he left the Oklahoma City Thunder was this type of defense.
Speaker 1: There was always two guys on him, always um But
Speaker 1: I'm a little concerned about was the Thunder. In regards
Speaker 1: to the Rockets, it's not just losing DeMarcus Cousins, who
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced made them better. But this team was
Speaker 1: not built to have a viable back up big guy
Speaker 1: like Katie has two guys on him because Kavon Luney,
Speaker 1: you're gonna leave him open, You're gonna dare him. Cavan
Speaker 1: Luny scores story, we tip our captire. That's that's that's
Speaker 1: how you think. So between Loney and Jordan Bell and
Speaker 1: who's had his own issues with with Steve Kerr Randregodala,
Speaker 1: does he have enough left in the tank or Sean
Speaker 1: Livingston like can they find that fifth guy? And can
Speaker 1: they can they get you know, enough offense out of
Speaker 1: the non big three. We shall see. But I thought
Speaker 1: it was a perfectly interesting response. He told you he
Speaker 1: respond to basketball questions. That's a basketball question. He gave
Speaker 1: you a thorough answer. What more do you want? I
Speaker 1: don't know. But he also told you he was the
Speaker 1: best player in the game, and then he outplayed Lebron
Speaker 1: James the last two NBA finals. What more do you want?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I still think it's gonna end up
Speaker 1: with the Celtics will win. I think the Raptors are
Speaker 1: gonna win. I think the Rocket Series is gonna be
Speaker 1: amazing against the Golden State Warriors, but I would guess
Speaker 1: the Warriors still have enough. But we'll see. Last thing
Speaker 1: is this in regards to the grad transfer rules, which
Speaker 1: may change. I understand that we want to create freedom
Speaker 1: for athletes and to benefit from the fact that you
Speaker 1: graduate on time, you should get another year. You should
Speaker 1: get that year of viligability to spend wherever you want.
Speaker 1: But you should still have to sit out a year.
Speaker 1: Because we're destroying the low majors. It also puts the
Speaker 1: high majors like U C, l A and COW and
Speaker 1: programs that have really no grad uh grad program that
Speaker 1: you can transfer into at a late date. Puts them
Speaker 1: at a prohibited disadvantage. More than anything, hurts the parody
Speaker 1: of the sport. I'm not saying you can't transfer up
Speaker 1: from a lower level to a higher level. If you
Speaker 1: get better and you improve, does it leave your boys
Speaker 1: in the dust shore But one there's some buyer beware.
Speaker 1: There's the Creamos of the world, the kid from Albany
Speaker 1: who that destroys albody. You lose your best player, and
Speaker 1: he didn't help didn't help Villanova. He was better at
Speaker 1: a lower level. But also, if you're a player. Where's
Speaker 1: your home? Where's your home of monitor? You spend two,
Speaker 1: three or four years at a place and then you
Speaker 1: leave because you've got another year left and you could
Speaker 1: transfer up, Like I don't think you're going back to
Speaker 1: that place and you're not a member of the new
Speaker 1: place where you graduate. All right, let's get you to
Speaker 1: Stephen Pearl. He's a long time friend of mine's assistant
Speaker 1: coach at Auburn. Auburn won the SEC tournament, went all
Speaker 1: the way to the final four, and nearly nearly beat Virginia,
Speaker 1: as you know, in the national semifinals. Alright, so like
Speaker 1: here's the interesting part, uh Pearl, Here's here's the interesting part.
Speaker 1: Is there are some is it is it a Venn
Speaker 1: diagram right where the we have the concentric the circles
Speaker 1: that kind of combined right between Uh, your dad and
Speaker 1: my dad's relationship, both of them having coached at u
Speaker 1: W Milwaukee UM and then of course you know the
Speaker 1: Maccabi Games thing. Like there's some there's some definitely ties
Speaker 1: that bind you. You're born in Indiana, weren't you a
Speaker 1: born in Iowa City, Iowa? One coach was an assistant
Speaker 1: under Dr Tom Davis. Okay, that's the first part we
Speaker 1: want to get to is not just under Dr Tom Davis,
Speaker 1: but the fact that you have a tendency to call
Speaker 1: him coach, Like is there a time you also call
Speaker 1: him BP? Like when did you switch from when? When? When?
Speaker 1: Is there is there ever a dad? Or is there
Speaker 1: a bruce? Or how does it? How do how do
Speaker 1: you address your father? I think at all suits When
Speaker 1: I started playing at Tennessee, UM, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it switched the coach and BP pretty quickly because you
Speaker 1: don't want to be, you know, that guy on the
Speaker 1: team UM calling your coach dad. So ever since I
Speaker 1: played for him because I never really played for him
Speaker 1: growing up. Heat coach baseball or football, uh, teams of mine,
Speaker 1: but never coached basketball. So once I started playing for
Speaker 1: him at Tennessee, I think the whole dad thing kind
Speaker 1: of went away, and uh I started dressing a coach
Speaker 1: or or BP. Okay, so you're working for your you're
Speaker 1: you're born, um, and your dad's at at at the
Speaker 1: University of Iowa. Then when did you When did you
Speaker 1: take the Southern Indiana job? How old were you? I
Speaker 1: was five years old, um, And when he took the
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana job, and uh, he was there for nine
Speaker 1: years and then took up the Milwaukee for his first
Speaker 1: Division one job, and then um took it down to
Speaker 1: Tennessee in two thousand five. UM, and then I started
Speaker 1: playing for him in twos six. Wait, you're you're skipping ahead, dude.
Speaker 1: You don't know how we do this? Okay, we can
Speaker 1: do it kind of the bit by bit thing like.
Speaker 1: That's that's the whole thing. Okay. So Southern Indiana is
Speaker 1: in it's in Evansville, in Yeah, evans Indiana, Okay, which
Speaker 1: is hot bed for high school hoops and hot bed
Speaker 1: for college troops. Obviously, the Aces haven't been what they
Speaker 1: what they used to be. What do you remember kind
Speaker 1: of about your That's like all your formative years right
Speaker 1: up until high school. Your dad's coach at a at
Speaker 1: a school and they're they're winning national championships right there,
Speaker 1: competing at a high level. What do you remember about
Speaker 1: about growing up in Evansville? It was really cool. Growing
Speaker 1: up in Evansville became just you know, he obviously had
Speaker 1: the Purple Aces in it, but but Southern in the
Speaker 1: end of the streaming Eagles, they were the team that
Speaker 1: was talked about in town, and you know, they used
Speaker 1: to sell out the pack arena which helps people. So
Speaker 1: it was it was the biggest shell in town. And
Speaker 1: we always try and get Evansville a playoffs, but they
Speaker 1: never would. UM. So growing up in that environment was
Speaker 1: really cool for me. UM. You know, as a kid,
Speaker 1: Evansville is a great place to grow up. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if I'd go back there as an adult, UM,
Speaker 1: but growing up, you know, had some great memories. UM.
Speaker 1: Growing up you know hung it was really good friends
Speaker 1: with Preston Mattingly was Don Mattingley's son, so UM, you know,
Speaker 1: had some really cool memories with with that family. UM.
Speaker 1: But really spent all my time kind of in the
Speaker 1: gym um with coach every day. I'd go to work
Speaker 1: with him when I obviously when I wasn't at school,
Speaker 1: UM on the weekends, that spent all weekend at his
Speaker 1: office just running around the gym, you know, getting shots,
Speaker 1: hanging out, um and just bringing my friends out there.
Speaker 1: So as a kid growing up, it was really cool
Speaker 1: to kind of have your dad as as the head
Speaker 1: coach of of you know, one of the bigger teams
Speaker 1: in that town. UM. Getting to spend a ton of
Speaker 1: time with the players. You know, the players kind of
Speaker 1: adopted me as like a little brother. Um, so that
Speaker 1: was really special. And some of your best memories growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, as the coaches kid, revolve around you know,
Speaker 1: those teams and and those memories and obviously winning championships
Speaker 1: and being one of the more successful to these two
Speaker 1: programs in the country at that time. Um, it was
Speaker 1: really special. Okay, So what do you remember about the
Speaker 1: nation National championship? Year was ninety five. I'm gonna say yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: it's funny because like one of the reasons I wore
Speaker 1: forty four or was I look at Pemrivitch war forty four,
Speaker 1: Hank Gathers wear forty four, Um, Jerry West war forty four.
Speaker 1: But also my dad's like best player was a guy
Speaker 1: named Kirk Cashy at u W Milwaukee. He wore forty four,
Speaker 1: and so I always liked, like, like the number who is?
Speaker 1: Do you remember who your favorite player was in the
Speaker 1: ninety team? Brian Hedner were number three, and uh so
Speaker 1: I kind of were number three, Um growing up. That
Speaker 1: changed when I got to college, but um, yeah, growing up,
Speaker 1: Brian Hedner was my favorite player. Were number three for us,
Speaker 1: and you know that that ninety five team was you know,
Speaker 1: really special. The year before, they had made it to
Speaker 1: the national semifinal. I saw the National final game and
Speaker 1: then lost in a second UM. And then the following year,
Speaker 1: we uh, we're playing Cow State Bakersfield UM in Springfield
Speaker 1: and we're down like twenty three at half time, and
Speaker 1: one of the officials goes over to coach in the
Speaker 1: game and says, Coach, you gotta get it. You gotta
Speaker 1: get ahold of that kids in your bench. You won't
Speaker 1: stop crying. And I'm just in tears because we're we're
Speaker 1: getting our our tails handed to us, and I'm afraid
Speaker 1: that were about to lose another national championship. So you know,
Speaker 1: at halftime, you know, coach kind of comes over to
Speaker 1: me in the locker ho He's like, buddy, what's wrong.
Speaker 1: I was like, Dad, we're gonna lose. You know, we're
Speaker 1: gonna lose again. And and then you know, second half
Speaker 1: we come out and you know, stand Gerard, and then
Speaker 1: you know some of the guys in the team just
Speaker 1: rally around and they kinned a way to come back
Speaker 1: and win the national championships. UM, so I remember those
Speaker 1: of yours. You know, you're in kindergarten to be able
Speaker 1: to remember those types of things. UM. You know, it's
Speaker 1: really cool. In two thousand one, he got the u
Speaker 1: W Milwaukee job. Obviously, you were too young to remember
Speaker 1: how everything went down at at Iowa. UM. She became
Speaker 1: a little bit more aware at Southern Indiana, Like what
Speaker 1: was your sense for your dad and why he wasn't
Speaker 1: a division one head coach. I think I was still
Speaker 1: a little too young to kind of get involved with
Speaker 1: the specific um in and out of it. UM. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, as I've gotten older, you know, I've kind
Speaker 1: of begun to understand the landscape. UM. As to as
Speaker 1: to why he may have not gotten a job. I
Speaker 1: know he had interviewed in multiple places. I know he'd
Speaker 1: interviewed at Butler. UM didn't get that job. UM. But
Speaker 1: then obviously, you know, getting getting the job in Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: UM was kind of just it was kind of a
Speaker 1: long time coming because of the success that he had
Speaker 1: had at Southern Indiana. UM. So you know, I was
Speaker 1: still a little too young to really know that the
Speaker 1: ins and outs of it, UM, But it was kind
Speaker 1: of one of the things that we've been there for
Speaker 1: for nine years. I was going into the eighth grade.
Speaker 1: So as a kid, Um, it was really tough because
Speaker 1: I had, you know, really some some lifelong friends that
Speaker 1: I've thrown up with. Um, So having to leave Evansville
Speaker 1: was was one of the hardest was probably the hardest
Speaker 1: move as a kid, just because I spent my entire
Speaker 1: childhood there and had all my memories there. Um. But
Speaker 1: then you know, like he was he kind of explaining,
Speaker 1: this is part of the profession, this is part of
Speaker 1: the job. You know. It was amazing that we were
Speaker 1: able to stay in stay in Evansville for all those years. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, he at one at one point in time,
Speaker 1: he had the opportunity, I think, to get the Middle
Speaker 1: Tennessee stage job when we were asked that Indianna, and
Speaker 1: he ended up turning it down because, uh, the a
Speaker 1: d asked him, you know, what are you gonna tell
Speaker 1: your team? Um when you know, when you have to
Speaker 1: tell him that you're leaving. He just broke down and
Speaker 1: he couldn't do it. So we decided to stay outside Indiana.
Speaker 1: And then I think, you know, Butler was next interviewed
Speaker 1: for it, didn't get it, um, and then interviewed Milwaukee
Speaker 1: and decided to take the job. Um, and then you know,
Speaker 1: we just had to trust what he told us and
Speaker 1: we kind of packed things up and uh and on
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee we went, okay, so now you're not now
Speaker 1: you're more aware. Right now you're like high school age
Speaker 1: and you're a you'd have Milwaukee. What was what was that? Like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: getting up there trying to figure out, you know, what
Speaker 1: I was gonna do for for whom you basketball? I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out where I was gonna go
Speaker 1: to the high school. And um, you know it was
Speaker 1: it was cool. I mean I met some really good
Speaker 1: friends early the groupers as you know. Um, Stephen Gruber
Speaker 1: was the first guy I met at basketball camp when
Speaker 1: I first got up there, and you know, he said,
Speaker 1: my dad and your dad are gonna be really good friends.
Speaker 1: So they introduced him to David Grouper, who you know
Speaker 1: now Coach and David are really good friends. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, being around it, I was kind of understanding
Speaker 1: more of what I kind of took to build a program.
Speaker 1: Um and kind of watching it kind of involved in
Speaker 1: front of me was really cool because I had more
Speaker 1: of an understanding as far as what what was some
Speaker 1: of the intricaces of what coach did every day. Obviously
Speaker 1: didn't understand it as well as I do now, but
Speaker 1: um to kind of see him build programs, you know,
Speaker 1: watching him doing at Sound Indiana as a kid, but
Speaker 1: then getting to see it at the high school level,
Speaker 1: it was pretty cool as as being a coach's kid,
Speaker 1: being like stepping back and like, whoa, you know, my
Speaker 1: dad's pretty good at this. Um. You know, he's a
Speaker 1: would do it. So Indiana they were you know, national
Speaker 1: contender every year. And now he's at Milwaukee and we're
Speaker 1: in the incub A tournament in year two and Dylan Page,
Speaker 1: this is a layup against Notre Dame at the very
Speaker 1: end of the game to send us the second you know,
Speaker 1: the second round. UM. And then two years later, you know,
Speaker 1: he takes that team and goes to the sweet sixteen
Speaker 1: and and beats Boston College in Alabama. UM. So to
Speaker 1: see him kind of build it in four years and
Speaker 1: and really you know, beat really good teams in the
Speaker 1: horizonally like Butler and Illinois Chicago and have those great
Speaker 1: robberies and and win Horizon League championships. Um to kind
Speaker 1: of see it as I've gotten older. It really gave
Speaker 1: me a new perspective on how how good he was
Speaker 1: at his job. Okay, so what is it that he
Speaker 1: does like he has? He has? You know, like I
Speaker 1: think so many of these guys, and I think most
Speaker 1: people are good in their professional have it. It's just
Speaker 1: a an energy about him that he can even when
Speaker 1: he's not feeling great, you would never know because he
Speaker 1: can in a way to dial it up, right, Like
Speaker 1: if you and I know you like part of our travels,
Speaker 1: not just knowing each other, but you get to meet
Speaker 1: you know, ut movie stars and rock stars and and
Speaker 1: other athletes, and they have this kind of they have
Speaker 1: this well of energy that other people just don't have
Speaker 1: and so even when they're tired, like damn, how's he?
Speaker 1: You know? Um? Other than that, though, what is the
Speaker 1: s Austin You've seen him maybe not old enough to
Speaker 1: know it Southern Indiana, but at Milwaukee and then Tennessee
Speaker 1: and now Auburn that he's able to to do to
Speaker 1: generate success? Yeah, I think I really started to learn
Speaker 1: it once they got too because as a playlist Tennessee,
Speaker 1: you don't see the day in and day out of
Speaker 1: a coach and all the things that go into it, UM,
Speaker 1: But now that I work with them, UM, he just
Speaker 1: cares so much. He cares. And it's not just like
Speaker 1: it's more than just the coaching staff and his players.
Speaker 1: He he genuinely cares about the fan base. He genuinely
Speaker 1: cares about the university gen only cares about other sports
Speaker 1: on campus. He genuinely cares about, you know, how we're
Speaker 1: perceived on and off campus. UM. And I think all
Speaker 1: those things are really important in building a program and
Speaker 1: building a foundation and building a culture. UM. The amount
Speaker 1: that he they his you know, his level of care
Speaker 1: is kind of just off the charts, UM. And I
Speaker 1: think that's why he puts so much work into it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why every community that he's been
Speaker 1: involved in, you know, and the coach in the schools
Speaker 1: that he's coached, just buy in and they kind of
Speaker 1: you know, revolve around him and they and they come
Speaker 1: out to support the team even when the team is
Speaker 1: not that good. I mean, we were at Auburn in
Speaker 1: our first couple of years. We you know, we weren't
Speaker 1: very good. You saw it, UM, but we still you know,
Speaker 1: had had great home crowds, We still had great student turnout. UM.
Speaker 1: So it just matters to him, Um, you know, to
Speaker 1: be able to touch all those pieces and to be
Speaker 1: able to make you know, the university proud and and
Speaker 1: um yeah, I just he puts so much effort into
Speaker 1: it because it matters to him. It really doesn't matter
Speaker 1: that it's not just on the court stuff, that's everything
Speaker 1: off the court that that's needed to kind of build
Speaker 1: a you know, to build a program that wasn't in
Speaker 1: in the greatest spot. Um. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: biggest thing is just you know how much it matters
Speaker 1: to him personally, um, and and all the people that
Speaker 1: you know, the athletic directors that that took the chance
Speaker 1: on him, like he he feels, you know, he's in
Speaker 1: debt to them and he has to reward them. So
Speaker 1: he works, you know, he said he always says he's
Speaker 1: not the most talented guy in the world, but he's
Speaker 1: gonna work harder than everyone else. And he's kind of
Speaker 1: had that mindset, you know, every single day. And you
Speaker 1: talked about his energy, you know. Coach flann again, one
Speaker 1: of our assistant coaches, went out recruiting with him last
Speaker 1: week after we just got back from the Final four,
Speaker 1: and he he's like, man, I don't know how he
Speaker 1: does it. You know, we we we're going for three
Speaker 1: straight days recruiting and he's just high level, high energy
Speaker 1: the entire time. And it's just it's not an act.
Speaker 1: That's just who he is. And he's able to kind
Speaker 1: of do that everywhere he goes, and UM, it's kind
Speaker 1: of just translated into being able to ton these programs
Speaker 1: run and you know, winning a violence. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: get to Tennessee. He guys take Milwaukee to the Sweet
Speaker 1: six team and you go to Tennessee. You're coming up,
Speaker 1: I think on your senior year in high school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you remember about the move to Tennessee. Um, Well,
Speaker 1: initially I told him I wasn't leaving Milwaukee. I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to stay and play my final year of
Speaker 1: high school ball appearing, So I'm not going, you know,
Speaker 1: without you. And I was like, all right, well that
Speaker 1: kind of okay, that ends that conversation because I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna stop him from you know, making the biggest move
Speaker 1: and transition of his coaching career, UM to go from
Speaker 1: Milwaukee to Tennessee. So, you know, just like when we
Speaker 1: moved from Edinsville to Milwaukee, had a ton of really
Speaker 1: good friends and I didn't want to break ties with
Speaker 1: and then moving down to a new place, you know,
Speaker 1: for your senior season. It's tough because you know, you
Speaker 1: obviously put a ton of time in UM, you know,
Speaker 1: with you with your teammates over three years in high school.
Speaker 1: So it was it was a tough move. But obviously
Speaker 1: it made sense because you're in the SEC. Tennessee is
Speaker 1: a good program with with some tradition, UM, an incredible
Speaker 1: fan base, you know, all the different things that it
Speaker 1: takes to be successful. UM. So we go down there
Speaker 1: and UM, you know, obviously, well I'm trying to find
Speaker 1: new friends and figure out what I'm doing with basketball. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, just to kind of watch you know what
Speaker 1: what what what? There was a Tennessee of UM buzz
Speaker 1: Peterson left a really good team. UM had C. J. Watson,
Speaker 1: you had Chris Lawton, John Smith, Major Winate, Dame Bradshaw.
Speaker 1: You've had some really good pieces, UM, and what we
Speaker 1: did just kind of fit that team perfectly. You know.
Speaker 1: It looked very similar to some of the teams we've
Speaker 1: had last couple of years. Undersized guys that shoot the
Speaker 1: crap out of the ball and want to play fast.
Speaker 1: Um that first year, you know, we go twenty two
Speaker 1: and I think nine, get a two seed in the
Speaker 1: n c l A tournament when the SEC East and
Speaker 1: you know had had success right away. And then from
Speaker 1: there it was just the snowball effect. Um, every single
Speaker 1: year we go to sleep sixteen. The next year I
Speaker 1: come into a freshman, I'm a red shirt. And then
Speaker 1: just to kind of see it over time, over time
Speaker 1: build and you know, um spending five years there as
Speaker 1: a player red starting my first first year. Um, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll get into the playing part of it,
Speaker 1: but you know it's kinda um see what what he
Speaker 1: obviously what he was able to accomplish there being a
Speaker 1: national contender, being a contender in the NCC every year
Speaker 1: with you know, um Kentucky and Florida and in Vanderbilt
Speaker 1: and you know something in Mississippi State l s U.
Speaker 1: Um kind of do it against the elite was you
Speaker 1: know it was? It was? It was really cool. Okay, So, um,
Speaker 1: you play your senior. Was there ever I thought you
Speaker 1: weren't going to play for your dad? Yeah? There was.
Speaker 1: I mean I was getting uh some low major interests,
Speaker 1: some IVY League interests, there's a lot of division too interests.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, it was all state and Tennessee average
Speaker 1: you know, only five points a game in high school.
Speaker 1: So obviously I had some options out there. But um,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like I thought, it was,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously I I'm one of those guys that
Speaker 1: always got a chip on the shoulder and always trying
Speaker 1: to prove something. And everyone always told me there's no
Speaker 1: way you'll ever play at Tennessee. There's no way. So
Speaker 1: I took that out of the challenge, and um, after
Speaker 1: winning a lot of you know, different options, you know,
Speaker 1: decide I wanted to go to Tennessee walk on and
Speaker 1: and try and find a way to play. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there was definitely some thought early. UM, but you know,
Speaker 1: you know me, I'm always up for a challenge. So
Speaker 1: once everyone told me there was, you know, no way
Speaker 1: you'd play at this level, that kind of made me
Speaker 1: want to do it even more. Okay, so you arrive
Speaker 1: at two thousand seven, that's your dad's second year, right,
Speaker 1: and I just can't imagine it's hard enough to be
Speaker 1: a walk on and then to be the coaches kid,
Speaker 1: and he's trying to turn around and you're you're trying
Speaker 1: to like earn respect. You're also trying to figure out
Speaker 1: college because even though you you spent a year in
Speaker 1: a college town, it's completely different once you're in the school.
Speaker 1: What was that that process like and how did how
Speaker 1: did the guys all honesty how they treat you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was you know, we signed a ridiculous class that
Speaker 1: first year you had. UM. It was like a top
Speaker 1: ten class of Wayne CHISLM. Du Cruz, Mr Smith, Marcus Johnson,
Speaker 1: and Josh Tat So it was a uh nationally highly
Speaker 1: rated class UM. And we all kind of came in,
Speaker 1: you know together, because I kind of helped recruit those
Speaker 1: guys because you know, when they'd do on their business,
Speaker 1: I was, I was there. So we did all kind
Speaker 1: of come in at the same time, you know, as
Speaker 1: a group, and you know, they treated me like, you know,
Speaker 1: like like I had been recruited the same way they did. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been around the program the year before
Speaker 1: when I was in high school, so all those guys
Speaker 1: that were returners that following year obviously all knew me.
Speaker 1: But you know, they just treated me. They treat me
Speaker 1: like anyone else because you know, quite frankly coach treating
Speaker 1: me worse than any of them, So I know I
Speaker 1: wasn't getting any preferential treatment. Um. So it was just
Speaker 1: like I was, you know, one of the guys out
Speaker 1: there and you know treated me, you know, just like
Speaker 1: any other incoming freshman UM. But also with the whole
Speaker 1: walk on tag, you know, they gave me a little,
Speaker 1: you know, a little extra crap like like you know,
Speaker 1: like most walk ons do. You had to do some
Speaker 1: of the extra stuff that you never want to do,
Speaker 1: but I kind of have to as a walk on.
Speaker 1: So there was never anything. It wasn't difficult, um coming
Speaker 1: into the freshman walk on, you know, and being the
Speaker 1: coaches kids, they kind of my team to you know,
Speaker 1: did a really good job kind of seeing past all
Speaker 1: that not having it ever be an issue. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was the year that you guys went like thirty one
Speaker 1: in five right now. The next year that that year
Speaker 1: we um went like two and I was like twelve
Speaker 1: or something. Once the Sweet sixteen lost to Greg Oden
Speaker 1: Mike Conny and the Sweet sixteen we were up nineteen
Speaker 1: at half, I think in the shot like thirty four
Speaker 1: free does in the second half, and uh kind of
Speaker 1: came back and end up pointing the game. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be doing my job as much as and
Speaker 1: you and I have. I don't know if you know this.
Speaker 1: We've never talked about, not just the barbecue, but like
Speaker 1: people don't remember how things went down. Here's here's my
Speaker 1: recollection of of kind of what happened with everything right,
Speaker 1: not necessarily the it's that okay, So, uh what year
Speaker 1: did we go to? It was Israel? Israel was myself
Speaker 1: was two thousand ten, so two thousand, two thousand nine.
Speaker 1: Um BP calls me and he's like, hey, I'm going
Speaker 1: to Israel in a year. I'm gonna coach the maccabyteen.
Speaker 1: I want you to to be my assistant when you come
Speaker 1: with me. And I was like done in okay, And
Speaker 1: um I didn't know, like so you have to kind
Speaker 1: of commit a year in advance. And we had I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, didn we have it like a tryout like
Speaker 1: weekend in Knoxville. I think that okay, okay, so so
Speaker 1: so and this is this is my recollection of it.
Speaker 1: So the practicability was sick and I had never I
Speaker 1: hadn't been to Knoxville since my senior year in high school,
Speaker 1: I played in some all star game at the arena
Speaker 1: and we went out that night, like that's the only
Speaker 1: time I ever been in Knoxville. So we stay at
Speaker 1: your dad's new house, which he was just moving into.
Speaker 1: It was just finished off or whatever, but the basement.
Speaker 1: I stayed in the basement and he had like a
Speaker 1: poker room that was with like vented parts of the ceilings.
Speaker 1: You could smoke in the poker room or whatever. And
Speaker 1: we had a couple of days of workouts and I
Speaker 1: was like, this motherfucker can coach. Like I had never been.
Speaker 1: I I never liked like the style of flex so
Speaker 1: it cutters whatever offense. But I watched and I was
Speaker 1: like this fucking dude can coach and um, and we
Speaker 1: had a great time. And then I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember, my flight was like earlier than everybody else.
Speaker 1: He had to get back and we were on a boat.
Speaker 1: He got a free boat every year, right, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: had a boat over year as part of a deal
Speaker 1: on he did like speaking engagements for c Ray and
Speaker 1: they kind of let him use a boat. Um in
Speaker 1: the summer. So we had a couple of boats out
Speaker 1: there and I think someone had they come and get
Speaker 1: you on a jet ski to take you back so
Speaker 1: you can get to the airport. Correct. Correct? I literally
Speaker 1: had like a bag and like a jet and I
Speaker 1: had a bag. He's like just throwing the boat, Well,
Speaker 1: we'll take you to the airport. I was like, how
Speaker 1: are you gonna? Don't worry about We'll figure it out, right.
Speaker 1: So we had a bunch of guys and and we're
Speaker 1: throwing back some beers and guys are water skiing and
Speaker 1: jet skiing, and we're tying up the boat and the
Speaker 1: I'm like, shoot, I gotta go get the airports. Like
Speaker 1: no problem. He's like, hey, can anybody take him to
Speaker 1: the airport. Some guy pulls up on a jet ski
Speaker 1: like I'll take him over there, and like it was
Speaker 1: literally literally was like the most country ship everywhere. I
Speaker 1: grabbed my bag, hopping the back of a jet ski
Speaker 1: with like you know, no shirt on and flip flops.
Speaker 1: Takes me over to like you know, like a trans am,
Speaker 1: hopping the trans am and some random dude like you
Speaker 1: go down the back yes, and you know they passed
Speaker 1: me off the guy to guy and I get dropped
Speaker 1: out of the airport. I'm like later, so um, somewhere,
Speaker 1: and I don't remember what month of the year that was.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that felt like August. So my wife
Speaker 1: at the time had just gotten pregnant. If I find
Speaker 1: the guy, let me know anyway. Um, So I didn't like,
Speaker 1: I didn't think anything of going to Israel the next summer.
Speaker 1: So we had Hayes Uh, your dude, Hayes in March
Speaker 1: and I was like, she'll be fine, Like I'm going
Speaker 1: to Israel a couple of months, like, no big deal.
Speaker 1: And then right as it came down the booking time
Speaker 1: and I was like, no way, you're going to Israel
Speaker 1: while I have three kids three and under, Like, that's
Speaker 1: just not happening. Not happening. So I came and helped
Speaker 1: with the workouts at George Washington, right, and again I
Speaker 1: was like, this fucking dude can coach. And he let
Speaker 1: me do so much it was awesome. He's like you
Speaker 1: don't like that, here, change it, do it. And then
Speaker 1: while you guys were gone, that's when Aaron kraft D committed, Right,
Speaker 1: wasn't it while you were in Israel? He was gone
Speaker 1: for like the whole month of July and missed that
Speaker 1: recruiting period. Is that is that accurate? Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: going that entire month. Um, and yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's when it when it all happened. Um, there's
Speaker 1: a couple of things going on back home with with recruiting,
Speaker 1: and I just remember, Um, after the after he won
Speaker 1: the gold medal in overtime, a VP was basically came
Speaker 1: in the locker room, gave us one of the most
Speaker 1: memorable speeches that will ever will ever hear um that
Speaker 1: we can talk about in private one day, and then
Speaker 1: basically just bolted out and went straight to the airport,
Speaker 1: jumps on a plane and flew back to the United
Speaker 1: States try and you know, fake some of the situations
Speaker 1: that were going on in recruiting because he because he
Speaker 1: had been gone that entire month. Wait, why can't we
Speaker 1: talk about the what is? Because he cursed her because
Speaker 1: he was talking about what it means to be a
Speaker 1: Jew or or what was it? Because when I because
Speaker 1: when we want it, because when we want I'll just
Speaker 1: give you my personal experience. So I coached was it
Speaker 1: two years ago? And um, you know, truth be told, Like, look,
Speaker 1: we we go over there and I had never been
Speaker 1: you know, like the deal with for people don't know
Speaker 1: the Maccabi games. So it's like the Jewish Olympics. And
Speaker 1: I went over there when I was um in between,
Speaker 1: right before I started at Notre Day at Oaklhoma State,
Speaker 1: so I had played a year of college basketball, sat
Speaker 1: out of you or and um, uh god, what's why
Speaker 1: am I? Why am I forgetting what her browns our coach?
Speaker 1: And we beat a team in the pool play by
Speaker 1: sixty and then we played in the semifinals and ship
Speaker 1: we got beat and you know, it's one of those deals.
Speaker 1: We were playing too many guys and I don't think
Speaker 1: he really her really understood what he had or how
Speaker 1: do you know? I just remember, like, and we won this.
Speaker 1: We won the silver medal against in the Israeli team.
Speaker 1: We also got upset. But but the Americans and the
Speaker 1: Israelitis are supposed to play in the championship game, and
Speaker 1: you're supposed you're like, you're supposed supposedly have the best players.
Speaker 1: The problem is that you know, if you're really, really
Speaker 1: good and you're Jewish, you know, you're thinking about either
Speaker 1: playing the NBA already playing in Israel and you've been
Speaker 1: there ten months and you want to come home. It's
Speaker 1: like a little bit harder. You're playing with kids sometimes
Speaker 1: against men whatever, and there's the pressure of it. You
Speaker 1: don't get any calls. So we played France in the
Speaker 1: championship game. We stomped Israel. They had I felt like
Speaker 1: they played too young a team, and we were pretty
Speaker 1: we were really playing good well and we were up
Speaker 1: like twenty and it got tight. I think we won
Speaker 1: by six at the end, and so I didn't you
Speaker 1: know my and I also like like BP. I got
Speaker 1: on a plane that night because I had to come
Speaker 1: back and work and I've been you know, like you're
Speaker 1: gone like a month. And I loved it. But my
Speaker 1: postgame speech was more I went through every guy because
Speaker 1: I didn't play every guy in the championship game. I
Speaker 1: felt a little bad about it, but I felt I
Speaker 1: would have felt a lot worse that we lost. You
Speaker 1: guys wanted like a last second shot, didn't you. Well,
Speaker 1: we were down eight with me two minutes left, and
Speaker 1: UM basically like we just Pepe like gave us four
Speaker 1: just ridiculous play called UM a couple of back doors
Speaker 1: and a couple you know, a couple of play calls
Speaker 1: for shots and we end up tieing it. Um you know,
Speaker 1: I think Steth Holbin made a layup with like five
Speaker 1: seconds left to tie it up, and then we go
Speaker 1: to overtime. We just spank them in overtime and um
Speaker 1: end up winning the gold medal. And uh, it was
Speaker 1: at the point when we were done eight, it was
Speaker 1: not looking good and for us to be all to
Speaker 1: come back and you know, BP always makes a joke
Speaker 1: when you had Isaac, Joseph and Jacob as the three referees,
Speaker 1: your chances of winning in Israel weren't looking very good.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, weren't getting calls the entire game.
Speaker 1: We're just getting screwed the entire time and just kind
Speaker 1: of found a way to hang in there, and then
Speaker 1: over time we kind of got hot. They just couldn't
Speaker 1: take it away from us, and you know, we ended
Speaker 1: up winning and and and really celebrating, and you know,
Speaker 1: we all went out that night and saw these really
Speaker 1: players that they're like the club they always go to
Speaker 1: and UM in Tel Aviv and it was that's a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Yeah. Um so, uh so you all
Speaker 1: this stuff is going down and recruiting, you're in you're
Speaker 1: in Israel, Like, did you have any idea did did
Speaker 1: any of this. Did you guys know any of this
Speaker 1: stuff was going down like you personally as a member
Speaker 1: of Tennessee's basketball team. No, not at all really, I
Speaker 1: mean I just I just knew that VP. Um something
Speaker 1: had gone wrong with you know, one or two of
Speaker 1: of of his verbal commitments. I think Josh Josh Selby.
Speaker 1: Uh then with the Kansas was the other one. Um,
Speaker 1: so something had kind of gone straight with both of those.
Speaker 1: I guess Kansas have gotten involved and kind of, you
Speaker 1: know what, it was messing up a little bit. And
Speaker 1: uh so I know he had to get back to
Speaker 1: kind of get in front of both those guys just
Speaker 1: to kind of see what was going on because, like
Speaker 1: he said, he's gone that entire month. But as a
Speaker 1: member of the team, like you know, myname is like
Speaker 1: when kids would come in on visits, like we you know,
Speaker 1: didn't have didn't know a ton, We didn't follow recruiting
Speaker 1: as much. It wasn't as like all of our social
Speaker 1: media because social media wasn't like Twitter just started back then,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like as all over the place as
Speaker 1: it is now and as easy to find. We just
Speaker 1: you know, when coaches told us we had a host
Speaker 1: you know, we hosted, but besides that, we didn't really
Speaker 1: have as much information on recruiting as as kids did. Know,
Speaker 1: So what what was it? What was it like to like,
Speaker 1: there's there's all this different part one year part of
Speaker 1: the team, and he's in limbo your last years, last
Speaker 1: year in Tennessee. Yeah, but too you're also his son,
Speaker 1: right and and and like look like again those of
Speaker 1: us who know him though that the BP is not
Speaker 1: what I think some people will always negatively perceive him
Speaker 1: to be. What was that, Like, what was that experience
Speaker 1: like for you at the end or just in general
Speaker 1: in general? I don't know, you know, just leading up
Speaker 1: to it. I mean you obviously you know, being a
Speaker 1: coach's kid as well, Like you get this prior all
Speaker 1: the time. UM. You know, people always, you know, doubt
Speaker 1: why you played. UM, And I always tell people, you know,
Speaker 1: I probably should have been playing a year earlier. UM,
Speaker 1: But coach, you know, put other guys ahead of me,
Speaker 1: just because he didn't want people to think that he
Speaker 1: was giving me any preferential treatment. UM. And we had
Speaker 1: had some knockdowns, just fights over it, you know, in practice, UM,
Speaker 1: just going back and forth. And obviously when I wasn't
Speaker 1: playing like there was a little bit of a strand
Speaker 1: in our relationship because I was a stubborn kid, um,
Speaker 1: and he was just you know, a father and a
Speaker 1: coach trying to do what was best for me and
Speaker 1: what was best for the team. So, um, he was
Speaker 1: in an incredibly difficult situations. Um. But then obviously in
Speaker 1: my junior year, Um, you know, some things happened. I
Speaker 1: was able to kind of get into the rotation and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we go out there and have a great year.
Speaker 1: You know, we beat number one Kansas at home my
Speaker 1: second game in the rotations, and then we're going to
Speaker 1: have a pretty good sec season. We go to an
Speaker 1: Elite eight or one point away from the final four. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, to play Butler in the final four, and
Speaker 1: we lose by one in Michigan State Draymond Green and
Speaker 1: Corey Lucius and those guys. Um. And then the next year, Um,
Speaker 1: all the stuff happens with the n C Double A
Speaker 1: and with with the barbecue and and it's all kind
Speaker 1: of just like a cloud hanging over our heads. Um.
Speaker 1: So to play for him that year, it was it
Speaker 1: was it was tough. You know, there was just there
Speaker 1: was a lot of outside noise and you know, not
Speaker 1: really knowing what was gonna happen. And then he he
Speaker 1: was suspended for eight games. Um, you know, and UM
Speaker 1: to kind of see the wear and tear that kind
Speaker 1: of took on him was it was to us, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously as a player, but then as his son was
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult because obviously you know how much how much
Speaker 1: time and how much effort he puts into into his
Speaker 1: job and to kind of see it falling apart um
Speaker 1: there at the end was it was brutal. To be honest,
Speaker 1: it was brutal. And then you know we go to
Speaker 1: the into a tournament and get blown out by Michigan. Um,
Speaker 1: the end was difficult, um, And it was really hard
Speaker 1: to kind of seeing him in that in that stage.
Speaker 1: You know, he never brought it to work though he
Speaker 1: was always you know, composed and positive and he was
Speaker 1: he was he was he was himself when he was
Speaker 1: around us and around the coaches, around the team, but
Speaker 1: just outside of that, I could kind of see, you know, um,
Speaker 1: what it was doing to him. And yeah, like the
Speaker 1: one word where it was it was brutal having to
Speaker 1: go through that. Okay, So did you guys, did you know,
Speaker 1: do you know he's gonna get fired. No, I didn't
Speaker 1: really know. Um. I didn't know until we were on
Speaker 1: the bus heading to Charlotte for the game, and they
Speaker 1: had like put out a quote from the a d
Speaker 1: you know, basically like that he was unsure of his
Speaker 1: his you know, his future. And that's when it first
Speaker 1: clicked to me, like, oh, ship, this is this is
Speaker 1: not gonna end well, um, you know unless we just
Speaker 1: you know, once the final four or something. Um, because
Speaker 1: winning does miraculous things. But that obviously didn't happen, So
Speaker 1: it really didn't. I really didn't know he was getting fired,
Speaker 1: and so we're kind of heading to the game, uh,
Speaker 1: to play Michigan. I really had no idea. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: so like that, that's got to just be weird for
Speaker 1: you considering your Tennessee Alum, you play basketball Tennessee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you love most of your time there. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, like they fired your dad, um, and
Speaker 1: he you know, and you know, he's it's not that
Speaker 1: he didn't make mistakes, but he did own the I
Speaker 1: always I just always felt like it was double jeopardy, Like,
Speaker 1: all right, you spent may games like that's the penalty
Speaker 1: like spend by games and then coach season and you
Speaker 1: fire him when you always like, what was what was
Speaker 1: the whole point of the thing? How does it? How
Speaker 1: does it? How does it sit with you today? Forget
Speaker 1: about him, How does it sit with you today as
Speaker 1: a Tennessee elone. Yeah, I mean it's obviously difficult, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you got to realize that the
Speaker 1: people that have made those decisions, um, aren't there anymore. Um,
Speaker 1: you know they have you know, Phil Falmers is a
Speaker 1: really good friend of our families. Um. You know, he's
Speaker 1: the athletic director there and obviously, like you know, have
Speaker 1: nothing but love for him and his family, and you know,
Speaker 1: tons of respect for coach Barnes. Um. But I'd be
Speaker 1: lined up, I said, it didn't you know, it still
Speaker 1: didn't sting a little bit, you know, just thinking back
Speaker 1: on it. Um Yeah, But then you gott like, like
Speaker 1: like I said, you gotta try and put it in
Speaker 1: perspective and realize that a lot of the people that
Speaker 1: you know did make those decisions, you know aren't there.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like if they hadn't made
Speaker 1: those decisions, you know, we may not have ended up
Speaker 1: at Auburn and we went to the Final four this year.
Speaker 1: So I mean, at the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: it's really all worked out. Um, he has all worked
Speaker 1: out well for them. You know, they're in a great
Speaker 1: place with with you know, for a while they weren't
Speaker 1: in a great place. UM, but I think they found
Speaker 1: their guy in coach Barnes and you know, obviously was
Speaker 1: co champions the SEC last year and then you know,
Speaker 1: made it to a Sweet sixteen this year. So they're
Speaker 1: they're in a good spot. And I think we're in
Speaker 1: a great spot being at Auburn. And you know, looking
Speaker 1: back on it, you know, if you told me back then, um,
Speaker 1: you'd end up, you know in two thousand nineteen at
Speaker 1: Auburn and you've just come up and found four. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously you would have taken it instantly, having a deal
Speaker 1: with three years when we weren't in coaching. UM, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's all it's all worked out well. You know,
Speaker 1: there was definitely some some bitterness. There's a you know,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee fan base was was always a huge, you know,
Speaker 1: very supportive of coach and what he was all about,
Speaker 1: and you know that that never changed. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's all kind of worked out for the better,
Speaker 1: and I think we're, you know, all a better place.
Speaker 1: Because do you have any of your Tennessee gear? I do,
Speaker 1: I do, I got I still have. I still have
Speaker 1: my jerseys. Um, so I haven't got my letterman's jacket though,
Speaker 1: So if if anyone in Tennessee, here's this. I've been
Speaker 1: waiting on a letterman's jacket for like five or six
Speaker 1: years now and it's never gotten shipped to me. So
Speaker 1: if we could a remedy that situation, yeah, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: mind having that one day for my kids to see. Yeah, no, listen,
Speaker 1: I had mine. Um, I never got one in high school,
Speaker 1: so I was cheesing high school. And I had one
Speaker 1: in college and they were kind of cool at my
Speaker 1: Notre Dame one still which I haven't really rocked obviously,
Speaker 1: a little still a little awkward, Um, but I have.
Speaker 1: I had an Oklahoma State when that was stolen at
Speaker 1: like it was it was like the worst game ever
Speaker 1: we played, oh you on the road. We'd beaten them
Speaker 1: my sophomore, my junior, and we were just terrible. I
Speaker 1: was personally awful, and I got my letterman jacket stolen
Speaker 1: from the locker room during the game. I did get
Speaker 1: out in a couple of yes, I did get one,
Speaker 1: and I so I do have it. So I feel
Speaker 1: you on that. Okay, UM, what did you do when
Speaker 1: when BP went to TV? What did you do? I
Speaker 1: did medical sales. I went and work for Striker UM
Speaker 1: in Tennessee, Ron Barzac and Darren Way where my where
Speaker 1: my bosses, and um. Kind of you know, there's something
Speaker 1: I'd kind of worked on when I was still at
Speaker 1: Tennessee because you know, I had a chance to go
Speaker 1: play professionally overseas UM. But also at the same time,
Speaker 1: I had to kind of be realistic that I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna be the most prolific star UM overseas and it
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have, you know, turned into much for me.
Speaker 1: So I had to kind of make a grown up
Speaker 1: decision as far as what I was gonna do. UM.
Speaker 1: Coach just gotten fired. So I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what my next step was. And
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to get into something right away
Speaker 1: to kind of you know, buy my time and and
Speaker 1: to have myself, you know, stay busy doing something. And
Speaker 1: I had kind of built a relationship with with Ron
Speaker 1: and Darren while I was a senior Tennessee and they
Speaker 1: basically told me like when whenever you finish, you know,
Speaker 1: they're this job could open up. You had be ready
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, once we finished up in the tournament,
Speaker 1: I was in grad school. A couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: Ron causing, head if this is open um, it's yours
Speaker 1: if you want it, but it's gonna fail quickly. So
Speaker 1: drop out of grad school and jumped right into medical
Speaker 1: sales and did that for three and a half years
Speaker 1: covering UM hospital surgery centers in the East End of
Speaker 1: Sea in southwest Virginia. What what what? What? Medical devices?
Speaker 1: I was selling saws and drills and UM A lot
Speaker 1: of different UM pieces of equipment that did like total
Speaker 1: joint surgery so that total needs little hips, total shoulders,
Speaker 1: um so saws, drills, cement mixers, tourniquet UH, tourniquet UM,
Speaker 1: you know, all types of different things for orthopedic surgeries.
Speaker 1: What was the nast garly a surgery that you had
Speaker 1: to sit down on man. I had to do some there.
Speaker 1: We had a certain product that like stopped bleeding, so
Speaker 1: I had to do some like O b q U
Speaker 1: I N procedures and the amount of respect I had
Speaker 1: for women now having to go through some of that
Speaker 1: stuff is it's incredible. It was. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you'd call it gnarly, but it was not. It was
Speaker 1: not fun, but it was quite the experience. Okay, so
Speaker 1: uh so so so but you but you make good coin, right,
Speaker 1: you're taking doctors out to eat, right, the hours are
Speaker 1: a little trying, whatever, but it things could be rougher
Speaker 1: for a recent college graduate. Um. Okay, So I always
Speaker 1: thought that your dad and look, I left ESPN right
Speaker 1: before he joined ESPN, and your your dad's one of
Speaker 1: those guys that should be it should be it should
Speaker 1: have been a superstar, right, it should have been al McGuire. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't ever think he was able to be comfortable
Speaker 1: enough like I you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 1: like Seth Greenberg, who is very good and he was
Speaker 1: always good to your dad and like, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: like the two Jews, I don't know why it didn't.
Speaker 1: It just I never felt like they found the right
Speaker 1: guys with him to make it sing. Is that fair? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think part of that is thatvidence. I think the
Speaker 1: other part of it is. I think once he started
Speaker 1: doing TV, I think he started itching to get back
Speaker 1: into it even more, just because he got around it again,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, no, listen, if
Speaker 1: you do. I telled you like when urban Meyer did
Speaker 1: the games when he was at ESPN, I told everybody like,
Speaker 1: he's gonna coach again. Like if you do the game,
Speaker 1: you do the studio. It's kind of it's it's I
Speaker 1: like it because you feel like you can watch every game,
Speaker 1: but it's not the same whereas you do a game
Speaker 1: and you really prep for it. You watch tape, you
Speaker 1: talked to the coaches, you're you know, you sit there
Speaker 1: and watch film with him, You watch practice, You're like, dude,
Speaker 1: I miss it. I miss you even missed a losing
Speaker 1: as much as we missed the winning. And I know
Speaker 1: exactly what he was doing, Like you're sitting there covering
Speaker 1: games and he's at practice. He's writing, sit down like
Speaker 1: oh this will be good for what we do, you know,
Speaker 1: Like he's sitting there taking notes for if he ever
Speaker 1: got back into coaching, what would work, what wouldn't work.
Speaker 1: And I think he learned so much in those you know,
Speaker 1: those couple of years when he was working with ESPN,
Speaker 1: watching film, watching other teams, because when you're you know,
Speaker 1: when you're in it, and your coach you do. So
Speaker 1: you spend so much time on your on your team
Speaker 1: that you don't unless you really make a concerned effort
Speaker 1: to get out there during the summer and go sit
Speaker 1: down on other teams, which you know, which we do
Speaker 1: a pretty good job of. Um, you don't get a
Speaker 1: ton of time to kind of add to it because
Speaker 1: you're so busy doing a million different things. He had
Speaker 1: those three years to kind of refine his craft and
Speaker 1: and make what he did better. Um. And like you said,
Speaker 1: I think being around practices, being around the kids, um,
Speaker 1: the ins and out, the intricacies of of what you
Speaker 1: do every day. I think it made him miss it
Speaker 1: even more so. I think getting back into TV was
Speaker 1: I mean a major reasons why he got back into coaching. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he did he call you first and say he
Speaker 1: was taking the Auburn Like, well, how did the Auburn
Speaker 1: thing go down? In terms of the your knowledge of it?
Speaker 1: So we were um heading down. It was me uh
Speaker 1: VP and then my buddy Jordan Howe who played with
Speaker 1: Near Tennessee. We were actually driving down to Atlanta. I
Speaker 1: think coach had something going on in Atlanta, and then
Speaker 1: we just wanted to go down there to watch the
Speaker 1: SEC tournament. We're going down, you know, the support Tennessee UM.
Speaker 1: So we're going down to watch the game. And Jordan
Speaker 1: is from Auburn, Alabama. Originally his mom still lives there.
Speaker 1: His brother played at Auburn. You know, Jordan was recruited
Speaker 1: by Georgia, Auburn, Alabama and Tennessee end up going to Tennessee.
Speaker 1: So Jordan was around in Auburn when you know, you
Speaker 1: had UM Chris Porter and the Cliff l S days.
Speaker 1: So like he was around when when Auburn was was
Speaker 1: last really good. So we're in the car and you know,
Speaker 1: you obviously hear the rumors circulating that Tony Barbie, you know,
Speaker 1: is gonna get fired at the end of the year,
Speaker 1: and VPS in the car and just fight out. Says
Speaker 1: that Jordan, he says, you know, Jordan can Auburn went
Speaker 1: in basketball, and Jordan was like, honestly, BP like I
Speaker 1: was there, you know in the early nineties when it
Speaker 1: was really good, and I feel like if you were there, yeah,
Speaker 1: they can they can one again. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: really how how it all started, least how I remember
Speaker 1: getting started. And then over the next couple of days,
Speaker 1: you know, things really started to pick up as far
Speaker 1: as discussions between you know, um J Jacobs, David Benedict
Speaker 1: and coach and Um that's kind of where it all
Speaker 1: got started. And then they came up and visited with
Speaker 1: us in his kitchen. Um sat back, drank a few beers,
Speaker 1: talked about it, and you know, um, coach obviously wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure that, you know, before he did anything
Speaker 1: that that Brandy and you know, the rest of his
Speaker 1: his kids were were good with it. And I think
Speaker 1: I think my siblings were more excited about getting back
Speaker 1: into coaching than than he actually was. He was excited,
Speaker 1: but my sister is my little brother. You know. Then
Speaker 1: they eat it up and they love it and they
Speaker 1: just you know, they live for going to games and
Speaker 1: going to tournaments and you know, Um, so they were
Speaker 1: obviously really excited about it, and I think that made
Speaker 1: his decision that much easier. Okay, so did he immediately
Speaker 1: go like, hey, you're come with me? I mean, what
Speaker 1: was the what was the conversation like when you when
Speaker 1: when he took the job. As far as you're working for.
Speaker 1: So I was kind of in a transition period with
Speaker 1: my job. I was about to kind of get interviewed
Speaker 1: to be in my own territory, you know, if I
Speaker 1: if I had earned one. So I was kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, looking to relocate at that time anyway, UM,
Speaker 1: and then the opportunity came about, and I was kind
Speaker 1: of itching to get back into it. Anyway, I was
Speaker 1: doing a Saturday morning radio show UM in Knoxville, so
Speaker 1: I was, you know, doing I was kind of getting
Speaker 1: back involved in the sports thing. And you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I was twenty six at the time, so I was
Speaker 1: still young enough to kind of switch professions and still
Speaker 1: be able to get back into medical sales if I
Speaker 1: really wanted to. UM. So we talked about it and
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: what, what what would you think about us kind of doing
Speaker 1: this thing together? He said, you know, obviously I'd love
Speaker 1: for you to be there with me. Yeah, I trust you. UM,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna You're gonna be good at this
Speaker 1: if you do it. You know, you just gotta understand
Speaker 1: that you got you dont have to work for everything again, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not just gonna hand you an assistant coaching position,
Speaker 1: you know, just because here my son I would get
Speaker 1: down Auburn, so very similar to how it was when
Speaker 1: I played for him. You know, we talked about doing
Speaker 1: it together, building it together, you know, knowing that it
Speaker 1: was gonna take some time. UM. And you know you
Speaker 1: know this with with your dad and with your brother.
Speaker 1: You know, some of your most important accomplishments in life,
Speaker 1: you know, when you did it, do them with your family,
Speaker 1: They make them that much more special. UM. So for
Speaker 1: us to be able to kind of go down there
Speaker 1: and do it together, you know, it was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And I gotta I got a quick reality check very
Speaker 1: quickly when I got down there and my role was
Speaker 1: the assistant strength coach, and I was making uh not
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Um, how do you making? How's
Speaker 1: you're making your first year? Uh probably fifty fifty or
Speaker 1: sixty maybe. So it took took a pretty big pay
Speaker 1: cut from doing medical sales, um to go down there
Speaker 1: and kind of start working in Auburn. Um. You know.
Speaker 1: So I've worked as an assistant strength coach for a year, uh,
Speaker 1: did operations for two years, um, and then now and
Speaker 1: in my second year as a full time assistant coach
Speaker 1: and and you're you kind of become like his right
Speaker 1: hand guy, right Like you do that you do the defense,
Speaker 1: don't you. Yeah? I mean had I had a big,
Speaker 1: big part of of kind of building our defense last year, um,
Speaker 1: and just a ton of like in game adjustments, just
Speaker 1: trying to help him manage the game. Um. The coolest
Speaker 1: part about working for him, and this goes for anyone
Speaker 1: on our staff, is he is open to any and
Speaker 1: all suggestions. Just like when you were coaching us when
Speaker 1: we were getting in the cobby games, Like if you
Speaker 1: had something you wanted to run with, like you will
Speaker 1: let you do it. So last year when we were
Speaker 1: kind of going through everything and we were down to
Speaker 1: you know, three guys in the staff, you know, or
Speaker 1: for three to five guys in the staff, it really
Speaker 1: made a lot of us have to step up and
Speaker 1: and you know, have bigger roles and what we were doing.
Speaker 1: So I took over the defense, um, you know, Chad
Speaker 1: Pruett and Burgo Matt Mike Burgomaster helped out with the offense,
Speaker 1: you know, and Harris just kind of oversaw everything he
Speaker 1: was you know, he just kind of helped out with
Speaker 1: in every single area so I was kind of able
Speaker 1: to have more of a voice defensively last year, um
Speaker 1: on this team, and it's kind of carried into this
Speaker 1: year with with coach Flanagan. Um. So yeah, just you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, we have a really good dialogue.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm able to say things to him that
Speaker 1: no one else in the staff is being able to
Speaker 1: stay to him. UM. So I think that's good, um
Speaker 1: for our staff to be able to bounce things off
Speaker 1: of me, because I'll be I mean, I'll be able
Speaker 1: to know how how coach will react to certain things.
Speaker 1: And you know, he uh, he lets me get away
Speaker 1: with a little bit more just because we have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a tighter relationship. But um, it's very healthy.
Speaker 1: It's you know, obviously been a tough fun and to
Speaker 1: kind of do what we were able to do this
Speaker 1: year was it was it was a blast. But it
Speaker 1: is interesting how you're able to do what you would do,
Speaker 1: like you know, Mustafa heron transfers. Um, you know, the
Speaker 1: the you know, the check person thing obviously is still
Speaker 1: kind of still kind of looming. Right. Harris Adler decides
Speaker 1: to get out of basketball and go work back in Philly,
Speaker 1: and you know that was you know, a personal decision
Speaker 1: has been written about like Harris is an awesome dude, UM,
Speaker 1: and so like the you if you're outside the program,
Speaker 1: you be like, man, this could be really bad. How
Speaker 1: did it come together to be the opposite and be
Speaker 1: really good? I just think the culture that we've we've
Speaker 1: built with our kids is just so strong right now.
Speaker 1: You know, we have so many high character UH kids
Speaker 1: in that locker room that you know, even when something
Speaker 1: really bad happens, they're able to kind of find together
Speaker 1: and fight through it. You look at what happened last
Speaker 1: year with you know everything with with UM during the season,
Speaker 1: you know, having to lose a few staff members. You know,
Speaker 1: we end up coming together. That team wins an SEC
Speaker 1: championship and goes to the tournament for the first time
Speaker 1: two thousand three. UM. And then this year, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got the Stafahern transfers, you have the Shawn Murray transfers,
Speaker 1: you have David on Mitchell transferring, You lose three of
Speaker 1: your top you know, eight or nine guys, and then
Speaker 1: you know, we just bring in new players, UM, guys
Speaker 1: that had lesser roles last year had to step up, UM,
Speaker 1: and we end up coming together winning twelve or thirteen
Speaker 1: straight at the end of the year, um, and then
Speaker 1: gone to the final four. And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: we beat beating North Carolina and our best one of
Speaker 1: our best and actually our best player, Tears is a
Speaker 1: c l in the game. And then we have to
Speaker 1: go play Kentucky who had just beating us by thirty
Speaker 1: back in February, and those guys come together and win.
Speaker 1: So I think it's just it's a huge testament of
Speaker 1: the culture that that VP is built. Um. It's a
Speaker 1: resilient locker room. It's a resilient group of kids, and
Speaker 1: you know, we have it's such a family atmosphere that
Speaker 1: when when something like you know what's happened, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of different instances has happened, it kind of
Speaker 1: brings our guys closer together and we kind of play
Speaker 1: for each other. Okay, so how do you what what
Speaker 1: is the secret to the culture? How do you build it?
Speaker 1: What is that you guys have team building things? Do
Speaker 1: you have things that you have to do every day?
Speaker 1: Is there living arrangement things like what's different about Auburn
Speaker 1: from every other school that allows you guys to have
Speaker 1: a better culture than some most other schools. In your opinion,
Speaker 1: I think it's Yeah. I think it's the trust from
Speaker 1: the freedom that that BP has and gives to his players.
Speaker 1: You know, some people criticize us because of the shots
Speaker 1: that we take, but the reason that they're able to
Speaker 1: take those outs because VP lets them, and in return,
Speaker 1: that makes them want to do, you know, do everything
Speaker 1: for him in return. You know, if you're allowed to
Speaker 1: play with tremendous freedom offensively, um, the guys are gonna
Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna guard for you, they're gonna rebound
Speaker 1: for you, they're gonna go to class for you, they're
Speaker 1: gonna do community start, they're gonna do things that you know,
Speaker 1: other players may not do because they know their coach
Speaker 1: trust them. Um. So I think the fact that coach
Speaker 1: has tremendous trust and his players and gives them tremendous freedom,
Speaker 1: you know, makes them kind of fight for him. Um.
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, just having good kids
Speaker 1: in that locker room, they've all kind of binding together
Speaker 1: as a really you know, as a good group of friends. Obviously,
Speaker 1: winning helps a lot of those things, but I think
Speaker 1: the culture that was built, you know, on on that
Speaker 1: trust and on that freedom. Um has really made a
Speaker 1: healthy environment and has really shown off over the last
Speaker 1: two years. Okay, so you mentioned like all the things
Speaker 1: that you guys had going at the end right when
Speaker 1: um Chuma ends up tearing his A C L. Right,
Speaker 1: but you also have you know, wildly struggles to practice
Speaker 1: all the time, right because of his body, and you
Speaker 1: know he's had some things and UM, you know it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of a you know, you guys always play
Speaker 1: a difficult schedule. The SEC was really has gotten really
Speaker 1: really good. That's what happens when you hire really good
Speaker 1: coaches throughout the league, they get very good. You know,
Speaker 1: you're getting good players and teams get super invested in it. Um,
Speaker 1: was there a moment this year where you felt like
Speaker 1: because you did like one time you played Kentucky you
Speaker 1: got run out of the building, right, So when was
Speaker 1: there a moment you're like, Okay, this is different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at that point we were seven and seven,
Speaker 1: like E T and eight, Um, But we always knew
Speaker 1: that with this the team's ability to shoot the ball,
Speaker 1: UM and just like we call I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is even a word, what we called it, our
Speaker 1: spurt ability was better than anyone in the country. We
Speaker 1: could run off at twelve or thirteen point run on
Speaker 1: people in a matter of second. Um, So our ability
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, still gave us a chance
Speaker 1: to be dangerous. You know, like you said, Austin was
Speaker 1: was injured in and out during the year. You know,
Speaker 1: Truma had gone through a slump early in the season. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, still guys were still trying to figure out
Speaker 1: their roles because we had ten or eleven guys that
Speaker 1: were all capable of starting. So um. I think the
Speaker 1: biggest thing is once we started winning at the end
Speaker 1: of the year and started finding ways, when guys started
Speaker 1: buying into their roles a little you know, more willingly,
Speaker 1: and I think it made everything click. And then on
Speaker 1: top of that, you know, um, everyone was shooting the
Speaker 1: ball at pretty high level. So when you're able to
Speaker 1: make shots, you know, you're able to fly around defensively
Speaker 1: make plays, it just makes you know, it makes winning
Speaker 1: a lot easier. And it just everything kind of jelled
Speaker 1: at the right moment because I think I think the
Speaker 1: biggest thing was the kids all kind of came together
Speaker 1: and said, listen, we could either you know, go to
Speaker 1: a final four or we could be in the first
Speaker 1: four and lose or miss the tournament. And I think
Speaker 1: they as as a unit kind of got together and
Speaker 1: made a conscious decision to accept their roles, um do
Speaker 1: what needed to be done to in and UM, I
Speaker 1: think that made the difference of everything. Take me to
Speaker 1: the final four. You're you're up four, You're at four,
Speaker 1: and they have the basketball. Now, Kyle Guy hit a
Speaker 1: tough shot. I was thinking in my head, maybe you
Speaker 1: start fouling now, right and again and and this is
Speaker 1: it sounds like high hindsight on a path on a
Speaker 1: on a podcast, but I did think maybe. And I
Speaker 1: didn't even realize how many fouls you had to give.
Speaker 1: But I almost feel like when you're up for, the
Speaker 1: only way you lose is if there has to be
Speaker 1: a three um in order to to beat you end
Speaker 1: up being you know, essentially to threes one with the
Speaker 1: three main free throws you're up for. What do you
Speaker 1: remember thinking? Yeah, I mean, like you said, hindsights everything. Um,
Speaker 1: you can sit here and think about it a million times,
Speaker 1: but you know, prime, our primary thing was, you know,
Speaker 1: our free throws. You're at the line making free throws.
Speaker 1: You know, um, you know quite frankly, like Anthony made
Speaker 1: those free throws last year, hadn't shot him very well
Speaker 1: this year, so we're hoping he'd made the free throws first. Um. Secondly,
Speaker 1: we only had one time out at the time, UM,
Speaker 1: so we didn't want to call it and burn our
Speaker 1: last time out to set up our defense because we
Speaker 1: you know, thought we had been playing pretty good defense
Speaker 1: us at that point. UM. And we didn't want to
Speaker 1: tell him live ball as we're shooting the free throws,
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of the game too foul,
Speaker 1: because we didn't want it to get confused and kind
Speaker 1: of lost, just from what I remember. And then like
Speaker 1: you said, like that's probably a ten or you know
Speaker 1: made shot that he shot in that corner. You know,
Speaker 1: sameir had a good contest on it. He's twisting and
Speaker 1: turning out of bound. So I mean, you know, you
Speaker 1: can look back and say we should have fouled. We
Speaker 1: only had four thousands of time UM, so we could
Speaker 1: have definitely mild some time at the clock. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, we made him shoot a tough contested shot
Speaker 1: falling out of bound at the corner. You know, as
Speaker 1: a coach, you you know, you gotta live with that. Um,
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's a lower percentage shot than him
Speaker 1: going to the line and making two free throws cutting
Speaker 1: it too too. And then you know, um, you looked
Speaker 1: at the end of the next guest state game, you know,
Speaker 1: when we basically took the ball over the general last
Speaker 1: sixty seconds of the game, like if that could have
Speaker 1: happened again. So we we thought pretty good about our
Speaker 1: defense and how we're how we're guarding them at the time. Um,
Speaker 1: so up for you know, we uh you know won
Speaker 1: the mega shoot a tough contested shot, and they did.
Speaker 1: And you know, Kyle guy made a hell of a
Speaker 1: place to give him long credit. Okay, So, uh Jared
Speaker 1: gets the ball, and um, look he's a very good
Speaker 1: free throw shooter. And I'm trying to think did he
Speaker 1: make free throws or a jump shot to win the
Speaker 1: state championship. I think it was his junior year. Um,
Speaker 1: I remember covering you guys like his freshman year and
Speaker 1: you're like, this kid's stud Yeah. I just felt like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so like here's the guy in granted it's a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger stage. By the way, what's it like with
Speaker 1: all this stuff? It's so much differ you know you
Speaker 1: were the one guy that would stand up and get
Speaker 1: kind of on the stage. But how different, how how
Speaker 1: difficult is it coaching, and how different to to relay
Speaker 1: things to your team when you're down you know, a
Speaker 1: whole you know, three yards a yard below the level
Speaker 1: of the playing surfaces opposed to be like in terms
Speaker 1: of communication, and what's the difference they're like as opposed
Speaker 1: to at other times in the year. Unless you step
Speaker 1: on the floor, they can't hear a word you're saying.
Speaker 1: So it's it's you basically just held a front row
Speaker 1: seat to a Final four game. If you're an assistant coach, Now,
Speaker 1: if you find some opportunity to jump out there, like
Speaker 1: during three those to kind of communicate things, you can,
Speaker 1: But in live ball, if there's there's no communication with
Speaker 1: any assistance. So anything that we had we had to
Speaker 1: relate a coach to kind of relate to our guys
Speaker 1: um and get get the message out there to them
Speaker 1: on the floor, because when you're when you're that far
Speaker 1: back and you know, it's that open up, there was
Speaker 1: really no communicating with the guys and what it was
Speaker 1: during timeouts or during the vault. So uh so he
Speaker 1: misses and obviously you guys start to kind of process
Speaker 1: a fouling. Did you see your dad has said he
Speaker 1: didn't see the double dribble. Did you see the double
Speaker 1: drib Yeah, I saw it pick off his foot. I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if Bryce had touched it or not Bryce
Speaker 1: was trying to foul him. Um. I did see him
Speaker 1: pick up and put it back down, and I did
Speaker 1: scream it out. But you know, I said it in
Speaker 1: a in an interview. It's a bang bang play um.
Speaker 1: You know, It's it's hard to kind of see that
Speaker 1: at that moment. He may have been looking to see
Speaker 1: if Bryce was fouling him and just missed it. Um,
Speaker 1: But definitely from my angle, I saw um, I saw him.
Speaker 1: I saw Jerome pick up the ball and put it
Speaker 1: back down, you know, and and thinking that it was
Speaker 1: a double dribble time. But you know, it's just it
Speaker 1: happened so fast that you know, it could have been
Speaker 1: pretty easy to miss. It is one of those things,
Speaker 1: and again this is all this is all hindsight. It
Speaker 1: is one of those things when the other team thinks
Speaker 1: you're as soon as they're you're going to foul, like
Speaker 1: he end up taking you know, a half court Heath Right,
Speaker 1: you almost feel like, man, could you could you design
Speaker 1: a call that that signifies your act like you're gonna foul,
Speaker 1: but you don't actually foul, which will entice them to
Speaker 1: take a terrible shot. Right. Is that something I think
Speaker 1: maybe in the future teams could practice and put in
Speaker 1: You could and you just have to have incredible trust
Speaker 1: and says to not do it. And then I also
Speaker 1: hope that the referee doesn't, you know, kind of blow
Speaker 1: the call a little bit early thinking that you were
Speaker 1: trying to foul um, so that that's a tough one. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, we had told Bryce, you know, we
Speaker 1: told Bryce the foul. And now when when Jerome had
Speaker 1: kicked the ball and he had picked it back up,
Speaker 1: would it had been great if Bryce didn't foul him
Speaker 1: at all and made him take a tough shot to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But Bryce was just following instructions from his coaches and
Speaker 1: and we told him the foul, so we filed and
Speaker 1: then they got the side out of bounce play, so
Speaker 1: they running the side out of bounce play. You've poured
Speaker 1: over all the different tape, right, You've done watching the
Speaker 1: tape and watching synergy. Did you know what was coming. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you told them board and um, you know we talked
Speaker 1: about it outside of the breakfast spot in the other morning.
Speaker 1: We told, you know, we tore our end nondefender, do
Speaker 1: not let them pass the ball um to the corner.
Speaker 1: But the one thing that I didn't see live ball,
Speaker 1: and then I saw as I looked back at it,
Speaker 1: he was able to take like five steps back. So
Speaker 1: it really didn't matter if you had to sell on
Speaker 1: the ball. His angle to that pass in the corner,
Speaker 1: there was unless unless our guy was standing out of bounds,
Speaker 1: which would have been a violation. There was no way
Speaker 1: to to defend that pass the corner because of how
Speaker 1: big the playing surface was. So he was able to
Speaker 1: get a very clean pass the corner because he backed up.
Speaker 1: Made made a really smart play and I'm sure coach
Speaker 1: Benett told him to this back up and we talked
Speaker 1: so in in in hindsight with that little time remaining
Speaker 1: and again knowing now that like again final four floor
Speaker 1: and for you know, like guys listening to this podcast,
Speaker 1: now it's your basketball guys. So like if you're if
Speaker 1: you're lining up in a regular game, there's no space,
Speaker 1: right they can tell you to back up. But as
Speaker 1: long as you don't cross over line, there's no We've
Speaker 1: seen games of Kansas like this. We're just there's no space,
Speaker 1: there's nowhere to see. And like Austin Wiley's a big dude.
Speaker 1: That's a really hard pass no matter how and and
Speaker 1: you want to put a good, good passer there. So
Speaker 1: oftentimes they're not a big guy. But because the final
Speaker 1: four playing services so large, he can back way up
Speaker 1: and he has a clear So again in hindsight, now
Speaker 1: for a final four, when you have that type of space,
Speaker 1: do you do You play in front of him and
Speaker 1: then play widey, you know, guarding the rim, guarding over
Speaker 1: the back and make him throw the ball over the top.
Speaker 1: Is that like, if you could do it all over again,
Speaker 1: how would you do it? Yeah? And hindsight, knowing what
Speaker 1: we know now, you'd probably put a guard on the
Speaker 1: ball just in case he like throws it to someone
Speaker 1: and get the handback for a shot. Because I was
Speaker 1: kind of concerned with awesome ball if they could have
Speaker 1: gotten a shot for Jerome Um and as a five man,
Speaker 1: he may not have recognized to do that. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know, just hindsight, I would have you know, put
Speaker 1: put just matched up normally put off at the rim
Speaker 1: because that the lob was actually open um. I wish
Speaker 1: you would have thrown it from get have gone over time,
Speaker 1: but he didn't throw it. And then Kyle guy, you know,
Speaker 1: we're supposed to switch that scream, but smear or you know,
Speaker 1: we gave the ability to stay with him, and Samear
Speaker 1: stays with him. And obviously, you know, everyone knows what
Speaker 1: happens in the corner um. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: could do it all over again, obviously you would match
Speaker 1: up a little differently, knowing that you can't really deflect
Speaker 1: that corner pass. Here's a here's a tough question to answer.
Speaker 1: Let's say he missed the third free throw, okay, and
Speaker 1: gave you guys new life. I'm just wondering what that
Speaker 1: huddle was like when you called time out before the
Speaker 1: third free throw, whether there was the because you know,
Speaker 1: I've talked to Bill about this, and Kansas talked about it.
Speaker 1: You know, back at the time when they came back
Speaker 1: and tied the game to beat Memphis in the National
Speaker 1: Championship game, they walked over to the bench and they
Speaker 1: were like, it's over right, because you have the game
Speaker 1: one and then all of a sudden, now you're going
Speaker 1: to overtime. They were like, it's over. Um. Obviously that
Speaker 1: wasn't even the case with Virginia in the championship games,
Speaker 1: as in, despite despite the fact that kind of some
Speaker 1: of a sort of similar situation right there up three, um,
Speaker 1: text Tech actually had the lead in overtime and kind
Speaker 1: of had a little bit of control there. But I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering if you thought that it was so devastating
Speaker 1: to be that because I'm sitting rows back and I
Speaker 1: thought it was over, Like I'm like, where's the where's
Speaker 1: the where's the celebration? Like, oh, because the fouls in
Speaker 1: the opposite side. I can't I can't imagine trying to
Speaker 1: figure out get your balance and then go and play overtime.
Speaker 1: What do you think you guys would have been like
Speaker 1: in overtime? I mean, I think we've been pretty good. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a similar situation, UM in the
Speaker 1: Kentucky game when you know, Bryce didn't give the ball
Speaker 1: to his point guard and then Horse dribbles it down
Speaker 1: and you know Horse gets get shoots the st to
Speaker 1: try and win the game. Obviously, a little upset of
Speaker 1: we could have warn the game in regulation. Um, but
Speaker 1: they you know, they gathered, they got together, and you know,
Speaker 1: they still found a way to win that game over
Speaker 1: time by by seven or eight points. So I feel
Speaker 1: like even when they throw over to the bench after
Speaker 1: you know, his second free throw and we were drawing
Speaker 1: up a play just in case he didn't make it,
Speaker 1: they're pretty locked in, pretty engaged as far as you know,
Speaker 1: if he doesn't make it, you know, we'll find a
Speaker 1: way to get a clean look. And I mean if
Speaker 1: we've gone to overtime, you know, they've been through so
Speaker 1: much this year that I think, you know, we gotta
Speaker 1: bounced back well and you know, trying to town the
Speaker 1: way to win the game. What are those moments like
Speaker 1: in the locker room before the media comes in, when
Speaker 1: you're sitting there and you realize how close you know
Speaker 1: you had, You feel like you had the game one
Speaker 1: and instead you're going home? What What's what? What's that
Speaker 1: feeling like? Yeah? I mean obviously you just feel for
Speaker 1: the kids, um, because they're all just devastated. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing seeing seeing a month of your guys just you know,
Speaker 1: hugging each other and crying and just heartbroken. As as
Speaker 1: far as how the game then it was tough, um,
Speaker 1: but you know, uh, they were all very accountable and
Speaker 1: you know, coach came in and and basically said, we're
Speaker 1: gonna handle this loft, you know, just like we wouldn't
Speaker 1: victory with with class, and we're gonna handle it the
Speaker 1: right way. And as a coach, Doug the coolest thing
Speaker 1: in the whole situation kind of getting feedback from Gott
Speaker 1: in the media after the open locker room basically saying,
Speaker 1: I've never seen a kid like Samir or a team
Speaker 1: like like Auburn handle such a difficult situation that well, Um,
Speaker 1: so as devastating as it was to be, you know,
Speaker 1: it's harder to get to the final four. I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's it's damn near impossible to get there. Um.
Speaker 1: And to be so close to you know, playing in
Speaker 1: a game to win a national championship and having it
Speaker 1: and the way it did. Um, While it was all devastating,
Speaker 1: obviously incredibly proud of, you know, the kids, how they
Speaker 1: handle the moment um and just kind of how they
Speaker 1: represented themselves and in the university. How how have you
Speaker 1: How are you guys so successful in spite of the turnovers?
Speaker 1: Like right, because it does violate it does violate some
Speaker 1: of the laws of basketball, which is like you know,
Speaker 1: like like I tell kids all the time, like, look,
Speaker 1: you know, if you just don't turn the basketball over.
Speaker 1: I told a couple of coaches, actually Texas Tech guys,
Speaker 1: they were getting ready to play Michigan, and they were like,
Speaker 1: how do you beat Michigan? How do you stop them?
Speaker 1: And I go, just don't turn it over? Like literally,
Speaker 1: they can't score. They know, they really can't score if
Speaker 1: you don't just don't turn over. Which sounds easy, but you, guys,
Speaker 1: do you You allow them so much freedom, not just
Speaker 1: with the shot selection, but also you know you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the kicking the ball out of
Speaker 1: bound sometimes, you know the Mexico State. How do you
Speaker 1: how how how how are you guys able to be
Speaker 1: so successful in spite of the turnovers. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think at the end of the year actually didn't turn
Speaker 1: over as much, which you know, you and I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of business risons on the one on
Speaker 1: our run. But at the same time, when we turned
Speaker 1: ball over, um, I think we were number two in
Speaker 1: the country in turn over persentage. So we create you know,
Speaker 1: a ton of extra possessions every game because we turn
Speaker 1: other people over, so we're able to get those turnovers
Speaker 1: back just with how we played defense. So we're able
Speaker 1: to survive that because we don't win the possessions, we're
Speaker 1: trying to get the possessions up into you know, high seventies,
Speaker 1: low eighties, um in games. So when we do kind
Speaker 1: of get slopped at the ball and turned over, we're
Speaker 1: also creating a pace to do the same things. We're
Speaker 1: able to get those possessions done. I think our ability
Speaker 1: to turn people over allows us a little more freedom
Speaker 1: at turn the ball over. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the year, you know, you looked at our turnovers, don't
Speaker 1: We didn't turn over that much over our last ten games.
Speaker 1: We did a really good job of playing fast while
Speaker 1: while taking care of the ball. And and part of
Speaker 1: it too is, you know, we put a shot up
Speaker 1: before we could turn it over, so it limited it
Speaker 1: limited turnovers and posts employee, which was really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny. You actually had six turnovers in the game
Speaker 1: against Virginia, which is you know, far and part of
Speaker 1: that is, you know, the way in which they play, um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it Dave Logick, who was the coach at San Jose State.
Speaker 1: I remember he was one of his first years that
Speaker 1: I was doing a game and he goes, look, I
Speaker 1: told him to shoot whenever they want. As long as
Speaker 1: they that way, they don't, they can't turn over the
Speaker 1: shoot that was That was one of your closest friends.
Speaker 1: Is Todd Golden. You just got the job at San Francisco.
Speaker 1: Obviously used to he used to be with you guys
Speaker 1: and album before. He's an assistant at San Francisco. Kind
Speaker 1: of going back home. Um, what's it like to see
Speaker 1: a to see a friend like in the coaching community,
Speaker 1: what's it like to see one of your when your
Speaker 1: boys at such a young age get such a great opportunity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's Actually, he was on the phone, Todd, right before,
Speaker 1: right before we talk to you, and he was, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to get us to come out to the Bay
Speaker 1: to play a game. It's great to kind of see
Speaker 1: him be so successful. And you know he obviously took
Speaker 1: a huge risk of leaving, um, you know, an sec
Speaker 1: assistant position to go out to San Francisco to be
Speaker 1: the associate head coach and in a league where you
Speaker 1: have Gonzaga and St. Mary's and b y U and
Speaker 1: some of the teams that kind of normally finished in
Speaker 1: those top three and then all they do is just
Speaker 1: rack off twenty one seasons every single year. And it
Speaker 1: all worked out perfectly for him. And you know kind
Speaker 1: of said this from from day one. No One Todd
Speaker 1: is he's a rising star of the profession. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't surprise me at all if he gets out there, Cisco,
Speaker 1: you know, has two really good seasons and then you know,
Speaker 1: hell end up being one of the um youngest Power
Speaker 1: five head coaches and you know, in one of those leagues. UM,
Speaker 1: I think that highly of them. Um, but just to
Speaker 1: see his success and kind of see that that tree
Speaker 1: of coaches you know that we've kind of had here
Speaker 1: or just trees you know under under BP kind of
Speaker 1: grow and and watch guys like him get head jobs
Speaker 1: that couldn't have into a better guy. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: he's an amazing coach and obviously we're just really excited
Speaker 1: for him and and kind of what he's gonna be
Speaker 1: able to do with that program. Um, Okay, what about
Speaker 1: what about you? I mean, like, look, this has been
Speaker 1: it it's actually been a super meteoric rise, right and
Speaker 1: and on the other hand, like there's always going to
Speaker 1: be as Bruce Pearl's kid, and so some guys who
Speaker 1: are the son, they just sit there and they kind
Speaker 1: of they ride it out, you know, Like I've I've
Speaker 1: talked to Kellen Sampson, who you know, now he got
Speaker 1: the title of like future head coach whatever it is,
Speaker 1: head coach designate at at Houston. It's still a hard thing.
Speaker 1: Like it's not something that he wanted. It's not something
Speaker 1: you can turn down. It's really what for you, Uh,
Speaker 1: was the future hold? Yeah, that's that's a good question. Um,
Speaker 1: it's only my second years an the system coach and
Speaker 1: you know they've one two sec final four. So um,
Speaker 1: you know, resume is you know it's solid right now. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think part of it is, you know, figuring
Speaker 1: out what the best opportunity is for me moving forward,
Speaker 1: whether that's a head coaching job and a love major
Speaker 1: mid major. Um. If if that you know, the opportunity
Speaker 1: present itself or you know, go get my you know,
Speaker 1: my feet went under another you know, really good head coach. Um.
Speaker 1: Trying to find another guy in the profession, Um, who
Speaker 1: I can learn from, work under and vouch for because
Speaker 1: the end of day. You know he is he is
Speaker 1: our head coach, and you know, but the word of
Speaker 1: your dad only goes so far sometimes, so getting out
Speaker 1: there and getting you know, someone else that you know
Speaker 1: that you can work for and and and teach you
Speaker 1: some things and kind of get your name out there. So, um,
Speaker 1: gotta be the right situation. Um, but definitely just you know,
Speaker 1: looking to learn as much as that possibly can while
Speaker 1: here and then kind of assess the next opportunity. So
Speaker 1: you know, tons tons of options. Um, just gotta you know,
Speaker 1: figure out. I was like, come, um, you guys, you
Speaker 1: guys faced off with with with Duke earlier in the season.
Speaker 1: That was that was all the way back in MAUI.
Speaker 1: Yeah you saw Zion, I know in in high school, right,
Speaker 1: I mean all those you guys all saw him. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people like, oh yeah, we knew,
Speaker 1: Like I no one knew he was going to be
Speaker 1: this dumb Like, did you like, did you know he
Speaker 1: would be what he became as a as a college player.
Speaker 1: I had a I had a feeling he'd be really
Speaker 1: good in college just because when you look at in person,
Speaker 1: you see his explosion, his quickness and and just the
Speaker 1: way he gets from point A to point B, he
Speaker 1: does it better than anyone. And that was going to
Speaker 1: translate over in the college game. UM. Obviously, you know
Speaker 1: his shot making was was the one knock on him. UM.
Speaker 1: In high school, he was so much stronger and he
Speaker 1: was so much more athletic and quicker than everyone else
Speaker 1: that he could just get the room whenever the hell
Speaker 1: he wanted and and dunker finished over people at ease. UM.
Speaker 1: So would that have translated over into the college game.
Speaker 1: So we knew that he'd be a great college player. UM,
Speaker 1: but to this level. I mean, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: anyone knew how good he was gonna be. UM. And
Speaker 1: I think part of that is just how hard he's
Speaker 1: worked on his game. And UM, you know, he's so
Speaker 1: not to answer your questions. And I knew he'd be good.
Speaker 1: I did not know he'd be this good. Um. How
Speaker 1: did how did everybody? Um? Um? How did everybody missed
Speaker 1: on John Marin? That's that's a good question. UM. I
Speaker 1: think part of it was maybe the the AU team
Speaker 1: he played for. UM. You know, UM, it's a small
Speaker 1: a team in South Carolina that's got a bunch of
Speaker 1: really tough UM. Scrappy players. Um, you know, guys that
Speaker 1: really wouldn't go notice because they don't play in the
Speaker 1: big the big tournaments. You know, it takes guys that
Speaker 1: will go onto side gains and and spend time in
Speaker 1: side gains, but no one else going to be in.
Speaker 1: I think you know, the guys at Merge State did
Speaker 1: that and they recognized it right away. Um, So I
Speaker 1: think part of it is just, um, you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't play on the most prominent team to kind of
Speaker 1: get into the in front of the most prominent coaches,
Speaker 1: and there's only so many places that were able to
Speaker 1: kind of be in the summer, and you know it's
Speaker 1: not as and sometimes it's so spread out that you're
Speaker 1: just missing a ton of stuff. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: one of those things where you know, if you sometimes
Speaker 1: you land in the right gym at the right time,
Speaker 1: kind of like we did with you know, with with
Speaker 1: Jared Harper early in his career, uh BT was and
Speaker 1: Trumo KPPP was inside gams watching the Georgia Stars young teams,
Speaker 1: um and just kind of fell on those guys and
Speaker 1: start on early. Not John or And it's a little
Speaker 1: different because he didn't play for the Georgia Stars. He
Speaker 1: you know, played for like Team South Carolina or something. Um,
Speaker 1: so I think part of it is just being so
Speaker 1: to spread out. Um there are being so many different locations,
Speaker 1: which it's gotten better, but um, that's what causes you
Speaker 1: to miss on some guys like that. Yeah, and look,
Speaker 1: guys also get better. Like that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that like everybody thinks that everyone missed, Like we're gonna
Speaker 1: have Phil back around here part of this pod. And
Speaker 1: he was, he was. He was that we were stayed
Speaker 1: when Damian Lillard was there, and and everybody's like, well,
Speaker 1: everybody in Oakland missed. Everybody in the pack twelve missed
Speaker 1: on Damian Lillard. My brother is like, look, he was
Speaker 1: a you know, a six one two guard and and
Speaker 1: and then he just he worked and worked and worked
Speaker 1: and made himself into a great player. Like a great player.
Speaker 1: And that's a that's it's a it's a one. It's
Speaker 1: a credence to him and then obviously to assistant coach
Speaker 1: that can see what what a guy has within him. Um,
Speaker 1: the hardest guy to prepare for this year, the best
Speaker 1: player you thought you coached against, you preparing so much
Speaker 1: of the defense you guys faced Kentucky l s. You do,
Speaker 1: who would you say to about the man um? You know,
Speaker 1: PJ Washington was was. It was a tough one just
Speaker 1: for us because you know, he was his ability to
Speaker 1: shoot the ball um and then addition, you know, his
Speaker 1: ability to push you up inside. So personally that was
Speaker 1: that was one the one guy was actually really concerned
Speaker 1: about with Cassius Winston UM and if we had that
Speaker 1: was my scott, if we had made it to the
Speaker 1: championship game in Michigan, state of one. UM just watching
Speaker 1: you know, I watched like ten or fifteen games of them,
Speaker 1: and they run so much stuff and he's involved in
Speaker 1: it in so many different ways, whether he's you know,
Speaker 1: setting pin downs and getting re screens, or he's in
Speaker 1: ball screens and he's doing a million different things. You
Speaker 1: got a key on him. But then you know, if
Speaker 1: you do lock him up, he's able to get ten
Speaker 1: or fifteen assistant again. So um, really all year I
Speaker 1: felt pretty good about a lot of recoveries, but Pja
Speaker 1: was one of them. And then having watching cashes, you know,
Speaker 1: and and the week leading up for Final four, UM,
Speaker 1: I think he had been a handful for us. Last
Speaker 1: thing Um, the most underrated did you take your your
Speaker 1: staff out? The most underrated coach in the SEC? You
Speaker 1: you get to see all these teams, a ton of
Speaker 1: teams in the SEC. I think sometimes the coaching goes
Speaker 1: by the wayside because we talked about the players and
Speaker 1: and everything else. Uh, to you, the most underrated coach
Speaker 1: that league is who right now? Um? My most underrated
Speaker 1: coach before last year was Mark Fox Um exs and
Speaker 1: knows wise. I thought he was really good. Um, they
Speaker 1: ran great stuff. But now in this league, Um, you
Speaker 1: don't have to make one up. They all stand. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just say that you think they all stink,
Speaker 1: It's okay. You think you could draw circles around all
Speaker 1: this stuff? It's okay, Yeah, I mean, um, it's got
Speaker 1: to be. I mean, honestly, you want you want the
Speaker 1: best answer. I think it's cow as good as he is,
Speaker 1: like recruiting, Um, the way he's able to get that
Speaker 1: collection of talent and and and sometimes personality to to
Speaker 1: buy in. He's able to deal with all the outside
Speaker 1: noise all in the early season when people saying that
Speaker 1: they're not good, Um, he's done a bad job. And
Speaker 1: then every year he just kind of finds a way
Speaker 1: at the end of the year for them to kind
Speaker 1: of start clicking. And you know, UM, I forgot what
Speaker 1: the numbers on his elite eights, but he's don the
Speaker 1: elite ate like six out of the last eight years
Speaker 1: or something like that. That's you know, it's it's really
Speaker 1: hard to do that. UM. And he's never up here.
Speaker 1: He wasn't up for National coach and he goes here,
Speaker 1: which you know, was kind of mind boggling. But UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's underrated, but he definitely doesn't
Speaker 1: get as much credit as I think he deserves sometimes
Speaker 1: non basketball greatest part about the greatest moment you've been
Speaker 1: at Auburn, it was when Auburn football beat UM, Alabama
Speaker 1: saw Georgia and then Alabama, UM when they were both
Speaker 1: number one those like three weeks UM during the season
Speaker 1: on the littlest unbelievable into kind to see UM coach
Speaker 1: mals on those guys, you know, beat two number one
Speaker 1: teams with one that I'm out of the few weeks,
Speaker 1: it was incredible. M opportunity, the energy on campus something
Speaker 1: was amazing. And now they're storing the field out to
Speaker 1: the alibone the game won the SEC well, so, um
Speaker 1: though it was part of the Boston basketball member we've had.
Speaker 1: Does BP still get a boat or is that only
Speaker 1: a Tennessee thing? Well, I think if he ever asked
Speaker 1: for one, he could definitely get one. Um, he's I
Speaker 1: think he's good. He's looking at a lake house here
Speaker 1: in in the future, which will be cool. But um,
Speaker 1: you know he honestly haven't had time to kind of
Speaker 1: get out of the boat. So um so not not
Speaker 1: like it was in Tennessee, but I think if the
Speaker 1: everyone in thee you could probably get one. All right,
Speaker 1: will listen, Um, you're even more than generous with your time.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on what was an incredible season, and look forward
Speaker 1: to to talking with you off air. Maybe bring your
Speaker 1: dude Hayes down uh to to basketball camp this year.
Speaker 1: We'll send you the day, will take him out me. Hey, OK,
Speaker 1: it'll be fun. You gotta see his jump shot. It's
Speaker 1: kind of wet now, like you know, lefties always have
Speaker 1: it like now, I mean, I mean it's it's spinning, right.
Speaker 1: He's kind of shoot with one hand like he's you
Speaker 1: should just saying this is this is actually a really funny.
Speaker 1: So I don't let I didn't let him. I didn't
Speaker 1: let my last year's third grader. I let third fourth grades.
Speaker 1: I let him shoot threes. No, right, So I have
Speaker 1: one now that can kind of that can get it
Speaker 1: there and can shoot it without throwing it whatever. So
Speaker 1: he made when he got fouled in the in the game,
Speaker 1: uh in a game last weekend and I go uh
Speaker 1: And they didn't call a foul. He's like, Dad, did
Speaker 1: you see that? And one on a three point shot?
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, he goes, you know the song Old
Speaker 1: Town Road. I was like, yeah, he goes. He was
Speaker 1: in my head. And when I shot it right when
Speaker 1: the ball went in, the beat dropped. He's he's a
Speaker 1: easy character. He is. All right, man, thanks to your time.
Speaker 1: I'm and uh, we appreciate you. Join us in the
Speaker 1: All Ball podcast. Brother, appreciate you him all right. That's
Speaker 1: it for this edition of All Ball. Make sure you
Speaker 1: download subscribe. Let's to the radio show at three to
Speaker 1: six Eastern every day, Monday through Friday on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball.