WEBVTT - Remembering John MacLeod; Golden State issues; Grad transfers; Auburn Asst. Steven Pearl talks Final Four run 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:09.240 Hi, I'm Doug Gold. Have been welcome in to this 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:13.119 week's edition of All Ball. We got a great show 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.279 for you, a great pod for you. Excuse me as 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.840 Stephen Pearl, assistant coach at Auburn who just won the 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.280 SEC Tournament, went to the Final four and lost on 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.120 on a crazy, crazy series of events that led to 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.920 Kyle Guy making three free throws in a row. Um 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.000 Seeen Pearl is gonna join us. We'll talk about his 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.599 personal journey to becoming an assistant coach, playing for his dad, 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.040 what this has been like being beside his dad as 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.479 a player when he got fired at Tennessee, what he 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.800 did one when his dad went to TV, and how 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.479 he's climbed the ladder at Auburn to be under the 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.479 defensive guru if you will for the Auburn Tigers in 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:55.000 the SEC Tournament championship and Final four run. But I 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.480 want to start with a guy who passed away this 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.480 week at the age of eighty one. His name is 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.560 John mc loud and um kind of quick rundown of 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.600 John McCloud. He was the head coach at Oklahoma with 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.200 Alvin Adams. He then went to the pros and was 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.840 head coach of the Phoenix Suns, coached in what many 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.959 people believe to be the greatest NBA game of all 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.960 time for overtime NBA Finals game against the Boston Celtics. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.680 He was later the head coach of Dallas Mavericks in 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.800 the New York Nicks. And he was my head coach 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.039 at Notre Dame. And while I would be honest, like 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.360 he really unique career path right, Like he was a boxer, 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.640 he was not a basketball player growing up, and then 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.440 he was a high school coach before he became a 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.640 college coach. So just unique in terms of the comparison 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.520 to my life growing up at a basketball household. That said, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.480 what what basketball lost, maybe what society lost was a 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.480 complete and total gentleman. And some of these things are 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.400 kind of funny and clever and interesting. And I'll have 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.680 some of a couple of my former teammates on who 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.200 are on the bigger and brighter things since playing at 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.680 Notre Dame. But I first met him or first talked 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.840 to him on the phone in ninety four I got 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:07.880 home from a b C D camp. Back then there 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.320 was Nike and a b C D. We were uh 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.040 Sonny Mcaro, ABC d kind of group. Our high school 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.120 team AU team. Sonny had sponsored us back when he 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.200 was at Nike, and we followed him to Converse and 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.920 then to Adidas. Got home from abc D, which was 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.280 at fairly Dickinson. Year before, I hadn't played as well 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.160 at Ypsilanti. I was young, and um, I was okay. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.760 And then I started getting recruited by a couple of 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.840 high majors. And then Notre Dame called the first day 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.760 I got home, and I'll never get the phone call. Uh, doggie, 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:43.520 coach John McLeod, head coach of not Tre Dame, how'd 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.280 you like to be a member of the Irish? And 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.040 I was like, coach, I have no name is a 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.840 grade school And he said, good tomorrow we're gonna announce 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.840 we're going to the Big East Conference. You watched the 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:54.960 Big East Conference? And I was like, yeah, coach, and mean, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.440 I grew up loving the Big East. You know, Scott 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.040 McCorkle and Mike Hopkins and law On Ellis and played 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.000 for my dad. Um, and of course my mom went 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.959 to Syracuse and watch Yukon and Georgetown and and and 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.079 Villanova and Boston College and all those teams on to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.760 tomorrow we're an announced not Tre Dame is gonna join 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.120 the Big East Conference and you'd be my starting point 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.080 guard the first year in the Big East. How's that sounding? 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:19.800 It was like, as I'd love to go, I'd love 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:21.560 to take a visit to Notre Dame. I had. I 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.920 didn't grow up I'm gonna grow up Jewish. I grew 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.280 up in Irish Catholic Notre Dame fan, but I wanted 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.560 to see Notre Dame play football against Michigan, and I 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:32.040 got that wish. It was an amazing weekend. And you know, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:33.680 they're trying to convince us that that's not that's not 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:38.720 touchdown Jesus, that's three point Jesus. But here's the thing, Um, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.800 most of you are basketball dudes, are basketball ladies that 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.760 listen to this podcast. You know that perception does not 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.040 match reality. Sometimes recruiters can be a little great with 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.560 the truth. Head coaches can as well, but there's often 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.920 more and more good people than there are bad people 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.240 in this sport. John McCloud was the best of of 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.040 those type of people. He meant when he said that 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.760 what he meant, and I've just I've never met a 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:08.520 man that that was such a gentleman a right like 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.960 literally a gentleman would not scream at you, would not 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.160 curse at you. And everything he said he would do 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.640 at Notre Dame for me he did. I didn't live 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.240 up to my end of the bargain. He lived up 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.839 to his. So from the from the moment I first 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.720 arrived Notre Dame until the time even after I left, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:30.240 he always did what he said and said what he 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.720 would do. So, um, I share a couple of a 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.400 couple of quick stories. So John McCloud was um. He 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:43.200 was a gentleman and he believed Notre Dame, Notre Dame, 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.640 we have to dress with class. They watch us, and 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.200 so we were coating tie every airplane, every bus ride, 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.239 and when we were in the we're in the hotel, 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.120 like you couldn't dress like a slob, like you had 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.880 to wear your Nike Notre Dame sweats and a specific 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.200 shirt underneath, and anthing had to be tucked in. Everything 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.480 had to be With the exception of Keith Krowski from 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.719 Christian Brothers, Um Jersey Kid who had some boogers on 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.920 his sleep with that is the exception. Everybody was like 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.320 clean shaven, looked kind, of well put together. He used 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.599 to make us. You get up to leave the table, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.240 and you weren't dismissed until you tucked your chair in 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.080 under the table. Look people in the eye. I'll never 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.960 forget my first team meeting at Notre Dame. He drew 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.800 up like a makeshift auditorium and he circles the first 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.599 two rows and he says, not, they're not they're not there, 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.360 Notre Dame. We sit in the first two rows and 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.280 we we honestly had the ability to audible out of practice, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.440 out of any sort of workout. If if it was 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.520 pertaining to school, you had to study for a test, 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.960 go we'll see, let it go and um he he 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.840 said that would be his and no matter how bad 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:01.919 or how tough the season was, that's what we would do. Um. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.760 He didn't raise his voice to you. He would get 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.280 stern and he would get mad, and he would say, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.039 Notre Dame, we're in a tour. But if you really 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:12.840 wanted to lay India, he would you'd get back to 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.800 your dorm room to be a red blinking light, to 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:16.800 be a secretary. He'd say, Coach would want to see 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.679 you at such and such time to come in. Should 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.480 be very nice. He'd be very nice and formal, shake 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.240 your hand, walking and close the door. And that's when 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.560 he would play some tape and it wasn't usually good. Uh. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:31.039 He he was a man of immense class, respect, dignity, 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:35.800 and integrity. And I you know, like, look, it might 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:40.080 be selfish to to say, or self I don't know 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.040 what the term is, like egotistical, I think to say, 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.839 but I have no doubt had I not gotten in 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.920 trouble and at Notre Dame, he would have kept his 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.039 job longer because we were you know, as Peccarty was 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.080 a sophomore, I was a freshman, and Tony Weisch and 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.240 Phil Hickey were freshman as well, and we were adding 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.440 a really good recruiting asked and my boy, David Lalasarian 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.480 was coming out from my high school. And you know, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.680 by my senior year, I have no doubt that was 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.080 the year he got fired. After what would have my 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.160 senior year we got fired. We would have made an 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.440 n c A tournament, right we we would have made 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.040 an n c A tourament he would have kept his job. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:20.400 And even after that he wasn't better. Well. I posted 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.840 a letter on Facebook. He wasn't bitter. He wasn't a jerk. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.440 He was always so classy and so dignified, even though 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.640 I had done his program wrong, not just in my 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.840 actions and the way it made his program look. But 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:34.720 remember at Notre Dame at that point in time, they 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.320 weren't They weren't allowed to take transfers. You couldn't go late. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.880 There were no grad transfers. There were no transfers period. 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:41.880 Late in the year. They didn't take any. We had 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:43.800 guys that want to transfer and play. He couldn't take any. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.040 That was the university's policy. Obviously, it changed the second 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.080 he got fired. I think Matt Doherty got to take 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.160 Ryan Humphries from Oklahoma and and and history changed. So look, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.120 you can remember him as an incredible college coach. You 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.480 can remember him as a coach who coached Alvin Adams 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.280 to success at Oklahoma, or a coach for a short 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.560 period time at at Notre Dame. We ran what would 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.560 be kind of blocker mover or I called a two 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.560 side motion. We're a lot of NBA sets um. There 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.760 was some de defensively, we forced middle. We were kind 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.720 of pack line before anybody called it PAC line. But 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.240 I think he should be remembered as a guy that 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.400 carried himself with incredible class, dignity, and integrity. And U 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.559 I mean he even smelled good. His hair was always cut. 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.160 He I never saw him unshaven ever. Like you know, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:34.840 you're around the guy an entire year. You think there's 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.600 one day he comes in. You're like, man, he must 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.000 have stayed up late watching tape. Nope, not not not. 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.480 Johnny Mack passed away at the age of eighty one 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.400 years old. A legendary NBA head coach who I got 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.120 a chance to play for my year Notre Dame. Um, 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:51.959 let me kind of quickly give you I want to 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.839 play for you. A clip of what Kevin Durant said 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.040 to the media in regards to why people think he's 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.280 being passive. We had a nice floor of the game. 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.360 You know, let's go back to the whole last month 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:04.959 of the season. We've been flying this way for a 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.000 while and we got to this series. Um, you know, 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.559 game one, you had some nice moment. They're playing to 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.920 give me a defense which has been working top bocking 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.360 everything on the perimeter. So guy's not even looking at 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.680 the three point line. They're just forcing guys inside the 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.600 three point line. And so for us when I get 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.160 the ball in my spots, you know, I got a 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.200 pat Patrick Beverley who was up underneath me. Well, I 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.319 could definitely shoot at the top and score every time 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.440 if it's a one on one situation. But we got 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.200 a guy that's dropping and helping. And then we got 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.280 another guy that's just sitting on me. Wait, wait for 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.840 me to drive with the basketball. I put the basketball 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.240 on the floor. I can you know, I could probably 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.960 make in my shots if I shoot him like that, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.240 But that's not really gonna do nothing for us at 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.600 uh the outcome of the game, you know, because we've 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.400 got a nice floor. Everybody touching the rock. Now, you 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.199 may not want to hear it and you may not 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.760 want to accept it, and you may wonder why k 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.360 D would get a pass from people. I don't think 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.240 he does. I think it's pretty interesting. Like here's a 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.640 guy who people have said too much of ball stopper, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.840 too much one on one. He kind of ruins what 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.040 Golden State is and then he tries to buy into 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.520 what Golden States doing and they get beat. They did 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.760 lead like I I went bury the lead. They were 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:16.440 up thirty one points. His passive nature was working. He 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.880 wasn't on the floor for all of the thirty one 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:23.280 point comeback, but I thought that was really interesting. Look, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.240 they're playing a defense which I got one underneath me, 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.240 and I got a dude waiting for me, and we 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.160 gotta figure out why he's to score. They're running us 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.199 off the three point line, and our attack, however flawed, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:39.920 it became we were up thirty one points. I find 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.679 Kevin Rant to be amazing to watch. I'm interested to 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.720 see what he does in game three. I'm fascinated by 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.400 the idea that even though he outplayed Lebron James in 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.560 the last two NBA finals, and he's won an NBA 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.120 m v P, and he can play both ends and 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.719 he has a virtually unstoppable pull up jump shot, he 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.600 still can't seem to win people over. Why because because 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.600 he fights the people on Twitter? Or is it because 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.200 he left the Oklahoma City Thunder. One of the reason 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.520 he left the Oklahoma City Thunder was this type of defense. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.720 There was always two guys on him, always um But 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.760 I'm a little concerned about was the Thunder. In regards 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.079 to the Rockets, it's not just losing DeMarcus Cousins, who 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.040 I'm not convinced made them better. But this team was 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.680 not built to have a viable back up big guy 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.559 like Katie has two guys on him because Kavon Luney, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.560 you're gonna leave him open, You're gonna dare him. Cavan 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.320 Luny scores story, we tip our captire. That's that's that's 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.720 how you think. So between Loney and Jordan Bell and 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.120 who's had his own issues with with Steve Kerr Randregodala, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:45.720 does he have enough left in the tank or Sean 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.960 Livingston like can they find that fifth guy? And can 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:53.960 they can they get you know, enough offense out of 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.360 the non big three. We shall see. But I thought 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.080 it was a perfectly interesting response. He told you he 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.679 respond to basketball questions. That's a basketball question. He gave 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.800 you a thorough answer. What more do you want? I 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:06.520 don't know. But he also told you he was the 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.200 best player in the game, and then he outplayed Lebron 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.320 James the last two NBA finals. What more do you want? 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.600 I don't know. I still think it's gonna end up 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.600 with the Celtics will win. I think the Raptors are 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.719 gonna win. I think the Rocket Series is gonna be 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.800 amazing against the Golden State Warriors, but I would guess 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:26.600 the Warriors still have enough. But we'll see. Last thing 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.440 is this in regards to the grad transfer rules, which 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.840 may change. I understand that we want to create freedom 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.200 for athletes and to benefit from the fact that you 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.040 graduate on time, you should get another year. You should 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.880 get that year of viligability to spend wherever you want. 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.760 But you should still have to sit out a year. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.480 Because we're destroying the low majors. It also puts the 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.160 high majors like U C, l A and COW and 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.200 programs that have really no grad uh grad program that 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.240 you can transfer into at a late date. Puts them 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.040 at a prohibited disadvantage. More than anything, hurts the parody 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.960 of the sport. I'm not saying you can't transfer up 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.080 from a lower level to a higher level. If you 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.760 get better and you improve, does it leave your boys 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.280 in the dust shore But one there's some buyer beware. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.959 There's the Creamos of the world, the kid from Albany 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.320 who that destroys albody. You lose your best player, and 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.720 he didn't help didn't help Villanova. He was better at 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.000 a lower level. But also, if you're a player. Where's 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.120 your home? Where's your home of monitor? You spend two, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.360 three or four years at a place and then you 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.520 leave because you've got another year left and you could 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.720 transfer up, Like I don't think you're going back to 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.319 that place and you're not a member of the new 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.160 place where you graduate. All right, let's get you to 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.760 Stephen Pearl. He's a long time friend of mine's assistant 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.440 coach at Auburn. Auburn won the SEC tournament, went all 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.280 the way to the final four, and nearly nearly beat Virginia, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.440 as you know, in the national semifinals. Alright, so like 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.000 here's the interesting part, uh Pearl, Here's here's the interesting part. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.880 Is there are some is it is it a Venn 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.200 diagram right where the we have the concentric the circles 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.600 that kind of combined right between Uh, your dad and 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.440 my dad's relationship, both of them having coached at u 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.400 W Milwaukee UM and then of course you know the 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.080 Maccabi Games thing. Like there's some there's some definitely ties 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.120 that bind you. You're born in Indiana, weren't you a 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.360 born in Iowa City, Iowa? One coach was an assistant 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.440 under Dr Tom Davis. Okay, that's the first part we 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.960 want to get to is not just under Dr Tom Davis, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.640 but the fact that you have a tendency to call 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.600 him coach, Like is there a time you also call 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.480 him BP? Like when did you switch from when? When? When? 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.560 Is there is there ever a dad? Or is there 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.920 a bruce? Or how does it? How do how do 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.080 you address your father? I think at all suits When 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.720 I started playing at Tennessee, UM, you know, I think 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.960 it switched the coach and BP pretty quickly because you 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.080 don't want to be, you know, that guy on the 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.400 team UM calling your coach dad. So ever since I 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.320 played for him because I never really played for him 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.880 growing up. Heat coach baseball or football, uh, teams of mine, 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.360 but never coached basketball. So once I started playing for 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.160 him at Tennessee, I think the whole dad thing kind 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.480 of went away, and uh I started dressing a coach 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.960 or or BP. Okay, so you're working for your you're 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.640 you're born, um, and your dad's at at at the 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.720 University of Iowa. Then when did you When did you 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:21.640 take the Southern Indiana job? How old were you? I 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.680 was five years old, um, And when he took the 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.520 Southern Indiana job, and uh, he was there for nine 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.960 years and then took up the Milwaukee for his first 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.800 Division one job, and then um took it down to 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.680 Tennessee in two thousand five. UM, and then I started 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.360 playing for him in twos six. Wait, you're you're skipping ahead, dude. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:45.720 You don't know how we do this? Okay, we can 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.320 do it kind of the bit by bit thing like. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.960 That's that's the whole thing. Okay. So Southern Indiana is 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:56.200 in it's in Evansville, in Yeah, evans Indiana, Okay, which 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.440 is hot bed for high school hoops and hot bed 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.080 for college troops. Obviously, the Aces haven't been what they 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.920 what they used to be. What do you remember kind 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.320 of about your That's like all your formative years right 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.480 up until high school. Your dad's coach at a at 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.120 a school and they're they're winning national championships right there, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.280 competing at a high level. What do you remember about 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.320 about growing up in Evansville? It was really cool. Growing 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.880 up in Evansville became just you know, he obviously had 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.960 the Purple Aces in it, but but Southern in the 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.000 end of the streaming Eagles, they were the team that 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.800 was talked about in town, and you know, they used 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.600 to sell out the pack arena which helps people. So 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.000 it was it was the biggest shell in town. And 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.320 we always try and get Evansville a playoffs, but they 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.560 never would. UM. So growing up in that environment was 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.720 really cool for me. UM. You know, as a kid, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.960 Evansville is a great place to grow up. I'm not 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.760 sure if I'd go back there as an adult, UM, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.760 but growing up, you know, had some great memories. UM. 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:53.920 Growing up you know hung it was really good friends 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.600 with Preston Mattingly was Don Mattingley's son, so UM, you know, 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.440 had some really cool memories with with that family. UM. 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:02.360 But really spent all my time kind of in the 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.200 gym um with coach every day. I'd go to work 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.439 with him when I obviously when I wasn't at school, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.000 UM on the weekends, that spent all weekend at his 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.840 office just running around the gym, you know, getting shots, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.840 hanging out, um and just bringing my friends out there. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.800 So as a kid growing up, it was really cool 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.880 to kind of have your dad as as the head 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.040 coach of of you know, one of the bigger teams 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.840 in that town. UM. Getting to spend a ton of 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.720 time with the players. You know, the players kind of 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.480 adopted me as like a little brother. Um, so that 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.880 was really special. And some of your best memories growing up, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.359 you know, as the coaches kid, revolve around you know, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.119 those teams and and those memories and obviously winning championships 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.080 and being one of the more successful to these two 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.679 programs in the country at that time. Um, it was 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.280 really special. Okay, So what do you remember about the 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:56.840 nation National championship? Year was ninety five. I'm gonna say yeah, Um, 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.280 it's funny because like one of the reasons I wore 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:04.359 forty four or was I look at Pemrivitch war forty four, 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:09.000 Hank Gathers wear forty four, Um, Jerry West war forty four. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.800 But also my dad's like best player was a guy 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.560 named Kirk Cashy at u W Milwaukee. He wore forty four, 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.359 and so I always liked, like, like the number who is? 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:20.960 Do you remember who your favorite player was in the 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:26.879 ninety team? Brian Hedner were number three, and uh so 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:31.280 I kind of were number three, Um growing up. That 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.560 changed when I got to college, but um, yeah, growing up, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.080 Brian Hedner was my favorite player. Were number three for us, 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.479 and you know that that ninety five team was you know, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.600 really special. The year before, they had made it to 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.240 the national semifinal. I saw the National final game and 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.800 then lost in a second UM. And then the following year, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:54.000 we uh, we're playing Cow State Bakersfield UM in Springfield 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.040 and we're down like twenty three at half time, and 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.280 one of the officials goes over to coach in the 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.040 game and says, Coach, you gotta get it. You gotta 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.840 get ahold of that kids in your bench. You won't 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.960 stop crying. And I'm just in tears because we're we're 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.320 getting our our tails handed to us, and I'm afraid 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.200 that were about to lose another national championship. So you know, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.440 at halftime, you know, coach kind of comes over to 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.000 me in the locker ho He's like, buddy, what's wrong. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.879 I was like, Dad, we're gonna lose. You know, we're 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.880 gonna lose again. And and then you know, second half 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.400 we come out and you know, stand Gerard, and then 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.000 you know some of the guys in the team just 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.560 rally around and they kinned a way to come back 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.680 and win the national championships. UM, so I remember those 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.080 of yours. You know, you're in kindergarten to be able 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.640 to remember those types of things. UM. You know, it's 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.600 really cool. In two thousand one, he got the u 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.879 W Milwaukee job. Obviously, you were too young to remember 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.879 how everything went down at at Iowa. UM. She became 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.880 a little bit more aware at Southern Indiana, Like what 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.800 was your sense for your dad and why he wasn't 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:02.520 a division one head coach. I think I was still 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.439 a little too young to kind of get involved with 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.280 the specific um in and out of it. UM. I think, 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:10.560 you know, as I've gotten older, you know, I've kind 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.520 of begun to understand the landscape. UM. As to as 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.520