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Speaker 1: Hey you know.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the Nodunks podcast

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Speaker 2: on the Athletic Network. It's Monday, April twenty seventh, and

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Speaker 2: we're here to break down the latest two episodes of

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Speaker 2: ESPN's documentary series The Last Dance.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jay Skeets joining us here on the horn.

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Speaker 2: We got Task Mellis, Hey, everybody, Hey, Task, you got

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Speaker 2: the beard one, Trey Kirby, Hey, hey, yo, the international

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Speaker 2: Man of mystery taking it to the max, Lee Ellis friends,

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Speaker 2: and last but not least, making this magic happen.

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Speaker 3: He just pulled up on his motorcycle. It's JD.

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Speaker 1: I wish hello, you.

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Speaker 2: Wish you could pound a Miller Lite and jump on

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Speaker 2: your motorcycle without a helmet on and get a little

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Speaker 2: police escort.

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Speaker 4: I was like, you go, Dennis, you oh incredible seed

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Speaker 4: from one of these last two episodes of the Last Dance.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna recap these one at a time again. We're

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Speaker 2: into episode three. You can call it the Rodman episode.

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Speaker 2: Task biggest takeaway from this one, let's just jump right

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Speaker 2: into it.

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Speaker 5: I just think in general, it's how special a player

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Speaker 5: or a unique situation. Dennis Robin was in the NBA.

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Speaker 5: I know we've heard a lot of these stories before,

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Speaker 5: but every time I get to hear it again, I'm

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Speaker 5: good with it. Eighteen years old, gets kicked out of

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Speaker 5: his house for two years, he's bouncing around, doesn't have

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Speaker 5: a job or doesn't have a home. I should say,

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Speaker 5: he's working odd jobs. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 5: he grows eight inches and oh, yeah, you should play

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Speaker 5: some basketball. And he goes to a Division two school

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Speaker 5: and he's just so unique in that way.

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Speaker 1: Is there another story like that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's he didn't really play in high school

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Speaker 5: much cut from every single team, and I just like

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Speaker 5: hearing him describe basketball.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 5: He described how he understands where balls are gonna bounce

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Speaker 5: off the mby flick at this way, click at that way,

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Speaker 5: goes it that way, the good to that, and like that.

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Speaker 5: Only that only works in his brain. But even the

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Speaker 5: little quotes like I want to go out there and

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Speaker 5: get my nose.

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Speaker 1: Broke, get cut. That's how.

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Speaker 5: That's how he wakes up on a basketball floor, and

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Speaker 5: he's just he's just so special. And he would get

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Speaker 5: his friends out there. He said he would go to

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Speaker 5: the gym until three or four in the morning with

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Speaker 5: his buddies. He'd get them there, not for Dennis Rodman

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Speaker 5: to shoot, but for his buddies to shoot. And that

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Speaker 5: was in that that doc. They would just miss Jumper

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Speaker 5: so he could react and understand where to go. So

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Speaker 5: I wanted a little bit more of the crazy in

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Speaker 5: this episode.

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Speaker 1: The guy was a.

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Speaker 5: Wrestler in the nineties. The guy was in movies in

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Speaker 5: the nineties. There was tigers jumping on Mickey Rourke in

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Speaker 5: the nineties when he was he was in a movie.

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Speaker 5: So I wanted a little bit more that that crazy stuff.

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Speaker 5: It all sort of funneled back to Michael. But just

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Speaker 5: watching Dennis Rodman in the incredible athlete he is, even

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Speaker 5: in that little Division two school footage of him bounding

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Speaker 5: up and down the floor, I think he could have

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Speaker 5: been a Golden medalist in the decathlon. Like he is

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Speaker 5: so special athletically, even though you look him as a

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Speaker 5: basketball player and he's just all arms and legs and

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Speaker 5: he doesn't really have you know, he's not all that

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Speaker 5: fluid as a basketball player. But that the dude is

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Speaker 5: in the Hall of Fame. So it's just crazy to

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Speaker 5: think about him as an overall athlete. And so that

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Speaker 5: story is always it always just fascinates me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I saw a tweet recently this week somebody who had

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Speaker 7: scouted Rodman back in the day and said he could

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Speaker 7: have been a gold medalist in the four hundred meters

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Speaker 7: and you can see it when he's running back with

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Speaker 7: those super high steps. But to me, the takeaway was that,

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Speaker 7: no matter how much we learn about Dennis Rodman, there's

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Speaker 7: just always more there. He's got the weirdo NBA Player

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Speaker 7: playbook and no one has even come close to touching

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Speaker 7: him when it comes to the realm of things he's done, because,

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Speaker 7: like you're saying, tasks, we're basically halfway through the ninety

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Speaker 7: seven to ninety eight season. This guy's gonna go wrestle

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Speaker 7: Hulk Hogan during the finals during this documentary at some point.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, it was honestly just amazing. There

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Speaker 7: was so much new stuff I felt about Robin in

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Speaker 7: this documentary that people were saying we needed Dennis Rodman

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Speaker 7: documentary and one came out six months ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah there is Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting you said that, Trey,

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Speaker 2: because I guess you're right. There are definitely little things

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Speaker 2: slipped in there, but overall, I feel like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know about you, JD. But like the four of us,

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Speaker 2: you know, the basketball geeks, the nerds. Rodman story is

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Speaker 2: pretty well known if you've watched movies or yeah, read

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Speaker 2: any of the books written about them.

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Speaker 3: You know, like task was saying the living on the street.

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Speaker 2: And all that, and coming from the small college and

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Speaker 2: where he was drafted and the contemplating killing himself as

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Speaker 2: a pisson and all that. JD, did you know the

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Speaker 2: Rodman backstory? And then Trey, I'll get to you in

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Speaker 2: a second, but like what you sort of found out new?

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Speaker 2: Because I know you're a huge Robin fan. I thought you,

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Speaker 2: maybe for the most part, probably knew all.

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Speaker 4: Of this, right, Yeah, I mean the guy was married

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Speaker 4: to Carmen Electra for one year. I knew about Dennis Rodman, right,

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Speaker 4: I knew about it. But watching this is last summer

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Speaker 4: I watched Chernobyl, which is a you know, is a

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Speaker 4: history event that has been while I was fifteen years old,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I remember it happening, but I didn't

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Speaker 4: remember any of the details obviously, And I feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm watching this, this is this summer's Chernobyl. For me,

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Speaker 4: It's just like, what was I doing back then in

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven, ninety eight and earlier, and it's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I remember rod but I don't remember any of this,

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Speaker 4: and guys, don't spoil it for me.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if they won the ninety eight champions.

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Speaker 2: Champion Byron Russell locks Jordan's ass blocks of ass tray. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what new little Rodman nuggets did you find out in

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Speaker 2: this episode three?

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Speaker 7: I think the big story is about going to Vegas

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Speaker 7: and actually how long it took, because for me, I

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Speaker 7: remember Rodman going to Vegas during the ninety seven finals,

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Speaker 7: during the finals. He also left after Game one of

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Speaker 7: the ninety eight Finals to go to Vegas, and I

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Speaker 7: do remember the period of time in January that they

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Speaker 7: address here where he was gone and people just weren't

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Speaker 7: really sure why Rodman wasn't dressing for the team.

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Speaker 6: But this is the most I remember them ever getting

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Speaker 6: into it.

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Speaker 7: Actually with the Carmen Electra twist of the fact that

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Speaker 7: she was there, that was incredible to me.

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Speaker 6: And then I don't know, I just thought it was great.

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Speaker 7: You know, you've heard similar stories about Rodman though, that

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Speaker 7: they finally get him back and they got to put

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Speaker 7: him in this conditioning drill and he's already in perfect

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Speaker 7: condition and out running everybody there.

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Speaker 6: That was awesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was.

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Speaker 8: The part of me that really stood out the fact that,

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Speaker 8: you know, imagine these days, some player just said I'm

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Speaker 8: going to Vegas to go party and go crazy and

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Speaker 8: his team a was okay with it, and then he

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Speaker 8: comes back basically in great shape. That that just is

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Speaker 8: shocking to me. But I guess, because you know Phil Jackson,

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Speaker 8: I think this is one of his strengths as a coach.

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Speaker 8: He sort of understood Dennison was able to relate to

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Speaker 8: him a little bit because of Phil's growing up and

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Speaker 8: Phil's basketball skill as well. So Phil was able to

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Speaker 8: sort of manage that. And there was a quote there

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Speaker 8: they said, you know, you don't put a saddle on

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Speaker 8: a Ferrari almost like let him have this little time away.

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Speaker 8: We know he's probably not going to come back on time,

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Speaker 8: and he didn't. He was about two days late. But

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Speaker 8: the fact is when he came back and when he

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Speaker 8: played basketball, he was ready to go. So and I

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Speaker 8: think Phil kind of knew that that was going to happen.

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Speaker 8: And there's almost there's really two characters there. There's the

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Speaker 8: Dennis Rudman, the celebrity who's got nothing to do with

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Speaker 8: the NBA, and then there's the NBA player who almost

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Speaker 8: comes across as a guy who didn't really put too

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Speaker 8: much thought behind what he did. But this documentary really

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Speaker 8: highlighted there was a lot of thought and preparation to

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Speaker 8: how he approached the game. You know, he knew what

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Speaker 8: his skill was, he knew what his strength was, and

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Speaker 8: he went out there and applied it better than anyone

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Speaker 8: else could at that position. And I think that's again

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Speaker 8: what the Bulls at least respected, the fact that when

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Speaker 8: he played, apart from the start of the season, there

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Speaker 8: was that sort of quick there where you know, he

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Speaker 8: was like, I need to get something motivated on board

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Speaker 8: right now, and Jordan goes and talks to him and

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Speaker 8: say I need you, and then he goes out there

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Speaker 8: and he goes on this incredible run, and the Bull's

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Speaker 8: gone an incredible run. So if you know how to

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Speaker 8: push Dennis Rudman's buttons properly, you get great results out

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Speaker 8: of it. And I think that was a whole part

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Speaker 8: of it that again started with Phil and Michael and

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Speaker 8: they all sort of understood what the best thing to do,

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Speaker 8: the best approach for Dennis was And if you come

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Speaker 8: down as a disciplinarian or you know, yelling and screaming,

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Speaker 8: he's probably just gonna blank you out and turn away.

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Speaker 8: But if instead, you know, you're play into what he

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Speaker 8: likes and allow him to be himself, he's more likely

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Speaker 8: to respond the way that he did and become such

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Speaker 8: an important player for those teams.

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Speaker 1: You don't put a saddle on a muskang. It was

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Speaker 1: a great line.

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Speaker 5: And I guess the part that the Bulls fans accepted

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Speaker 5: Dennis Rodman after he destroyed them, you know years earlier,

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Speaker 5: was a part of that team. It was a big

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Speaker 5: part of just this doc in general. How they just

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Speaker 5: accepted that guy who was part of that team that

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Speaker 5: they despised. I guess, you know, Isaiah Thomas ain't joined

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Speaker 5: the Bulls, but Dennis Rodman is like Jordan. Wouldn't have

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Speaker 5: been cool if Isiah Thomas joining these the late nineties Bulls.

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Speaker 5: But Rodman obviously added something. And you know, Lee brings

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Speaker 5: up the preparation. The shots of Dennis Rodman sitting in

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Speaker 5: the locker room, legs crossed, pensive thinking, getting down the

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Speaker 5: scouting report you just that's not what you think of

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Speaker 5: when you think of Denis Rotman. You just think of

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Speaker 5: hair flying everywhere. But he knew his his opponents and

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Speaker 5: it was it was clear that he put in some

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Speaker 5: work in front of those tube televisions that we all watched.

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Speaker 7: Roll off with tube and throw on some headphones. We're

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Speaker 7: talking rebounding here, but yeah, that was awesome here. Like

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Speaker 7: you said, test that explanation where he's explaining all the

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Speaker 7: different angles like it was cut together, awesome. But I

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Speaker 7: would also like to hear the ten minute explanation of

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Speaker 7: how to grab every single rebound that's possible.

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Speaker 2: That was so cool talking about like, yeah, how the

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Speaker 2: spin on Larry Birds shot compared to Magic Johnson shots.

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Speaker 2: It's so so cool. And for me, you know, I

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Speaker 2: love a rebound highlight. So that was that was that was, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I love a rebound highlight. Then you set it to

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Speaker 2: what Beastie Boys as a soundtrack.

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Speaker 3: Ject that right into my veins. What a clip that was.

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Speaker 2: But the part that you're bringing up there, test is

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Speaker 2: interesting to me. I kept watching this and going what

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Speaker 2: we know about Michael Jordan, even still to this day

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Speaker 2: in these interviews, is just focused so much of course,

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Speaker 2: on winning, winning, winning, winning, and proving people wrong and

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Speaker 2: turning them up. It's amazing. It is amazing that they

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Speaker 2: had a relationship at least on the basketball floor, Jordan

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Speaker 2: and Rodman, because like, I can't imagine any other player.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder if it's because, like you said, Tass,

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Speaker 2: that he played on the Pistons, he beat our ass.

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Speaker 2: He was incredible, He would shut down some of our

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Speaker 2: best players. He guarded me at times.

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Speaker 3: If Rodman is on.

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Speaker 2: Any other team and then comes to the Bulls, I

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Speaker 2: have a hard time wrapping my head around Jordan going

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Speaker 2: my teammates asking for a vacation and just wants to go,

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Speaker 2: you know, get get blind, drunk and do drugs in

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Speaker 2: Vegas for you know, you know, two or three days

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Speaker 2: for three or four days. It's like, I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: him agree be agreeing to that unless it was from

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Speaker 2: a guy that I guess he respected, right because of

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Speaker 2: the hardships, he couldn't get past them.

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Speaker 8: Well, and I'll say, you know again, because he performed

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Speaker 8: when he played, you know, that was the thing is like, okay,

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Speaker 8: you know, when he's on the court, he puts in

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Speaker 8: so as long as he can do that, and as

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Speaker 8: long as he can keep himself in shape, then I don't.

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Speaker 8: I guess Jordan just didn't have a problem with it,

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Speaker 8: and that was the thing.

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Speaker 7: And I remember Rodman's got four titles at that point.

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Speaker 7: The resume speaks for itself. Right, he's disappeared during the finals.

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Speaker 7: I'm sure it's fine. During January. I guess Jordan perhaps

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Speaker 7: had a little keener read on things, knowing that it

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Speaker 7: was going to take longer than two days. But you know,

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Speaker 7: if you can back it up, sure go party.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In a weird way, it's similar to like Jordan like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go play thirty six you know, holes of golf.

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Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: I'll be scoring forty five, and Rodman can go do

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Speaker 2: whatever he wants and he'll show up and still grab

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Speaker 2: twenty boards and play greed defense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 8: The craziest part, though, I think, you know, when he's

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Speaker 8: in Vegas there and he's over the forty eight hour

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Speaker 8: time limit that he said, and you know, it just

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Speaker 8: keeps extending, and then it gets to the point where

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Speaker 8: Jordan turns up to his hotel room and says, all right,

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Speaker 8: party's over. Let's go. Like, I mean, Jordan, would he

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Speaker 8: be fuming at that point? Would he be angry over

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Speaker 8: He'd just be like, all right, it's time. I got

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Speaker 8: to go get him. But I can't, you know again,

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Speaker 8: I can't yell and scream at him or else it

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Speaker 8: might just turn him off even more. So I have

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Speaker 8: to just go and say fatherly almost to him, like

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Speaker 8: parties over there, and and Rudman's like, okay, let's go.

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Speaker 5: Well yeah, that was that footage was incredible. So Carmen

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Speaker 5: Electra apparently is in the bed with Dennis Rodman and

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Speaker 5: hides behind a couch when Michael Jordan knocks at the

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Speaker 5: door and puts a blanket over her and and says, oh, well,

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Speaker 5: dad's here. Dennis, get the heck out of here, go

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Speaker 5: to practice, and the footage of him and pajamas. He's

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Speaker 5: in pajamas at practice, and you only get a shot

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Speaker 5: behind Dennis Rodman, so you don't you don't see the

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Speaker 5: full frontal, but he's he's in a you know, long

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Speaker 5: long Jammy's in a T shirt. And Phil Jackson says,

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Speaker 5: it's great you're mentally here, but physically you got to

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Speaker 5: get in shape here and m J says he showed up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's just think that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that that is nuts.

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Speaker 5: And then yeah, to apparently be out running guys in

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Speaker 5: the in their little drill. Hours later, I guess he's

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Speaker 5: out running Judd and Steve Kerr and everybody, and he's

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Speaker 5: leading the pack. Great stuff there. Nice to see Jamie's

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Speaker 5: on a basketball floor. That would blow up the internet

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Speaker 5: obviously if that were to happen today. The guy was

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Speaker 5: wearing like he literally just came from his bed.

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Speaker 3: Someone could just pulled him.

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Speaker 2: And I mean I wish, like I wish there was

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Speaker 2: more footage of this Vegas bender. That would have been

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Speaker 2: incredible because and there saw him, and who knows what

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Speaker 2: they're pulling from, because like Trey said, he always went there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was like a second home. He just like,

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Speaker 2: whenever he could, he would just go there and party

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Speaker 2: all night. But that would have been I mean, if

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Speaker 2: we could have had that footage of Jordan showing up

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Speaker 2: at the door to get Rodman back on the team.

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Speaker 3: With Carmen Elector in the room, Oh my god.

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Speaker 7: I like the idea that only Michael Jordan could do it.

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Speaker 7: Only Jordan's gonna be able to get back guys, I'll

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Speaker 7: do this. I will do this. I will fly to

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Speaker 7: Las Vegas and hang out with Dennis Thumm and then

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Speaker 7: I will bring him back.

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Speaker 6: It can only be me though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: How many games of Blackjacket they slipped in?

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Speaker 6: Just one?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: So he sang him and his buddy sang a song

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Speaker 5: before shooting back a Kama Kazi drink.

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Speaker 1: If you guys remember there was a little here is

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Speaker 1: a comic Kazi. I don't know, JD.

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Speaker 5: Did you approve of that little jingle that they sang

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Speaker 5: before shooting back a comic?

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know what did they sing.

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Speaker 5: I'm trying to find the lyrics here, but I mean

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Speaker 5: they sang like it's like three or four lines of.

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Speaker 1: Kind.

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Speaker 2: And then he pretends that he's drinking a Kama Kazi

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Speaker 2: out of a Gatorade cup while he's he he might be, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he might be. Do you he slips it in there

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Speaker 2: like at the start of this episode, episode three, And

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Speaker 2: I think it's an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: Trey will start with you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you take Rodman away from the Bulls,

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Speaker 2: do they still win? You know, those championships are a

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Speaker 2: specifically this championship, I.

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Speaker 7: Don't think specifically the ninety seven to ninety eight championship

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Speaker 7: just because Rodman, you know, is so instrumental in being

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Speaker 7: able to guard Karl Malone come the finals. I mean,

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Speaker 7: I know he was banged up, he was coming off

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Speaker 7: the bench during the Eastern Conference Finals, but Rodman's versatility

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Speaker 7: defensively made it so that he could be like basically

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Speaker 7: the big guy despite being you know, listed at six

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Speaker 7: to eight closer to six six. And then you can

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Speaker 7: throw Kuck Coach out there as well, and you suddenly

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Speaker 7: have a modern team playing twenty years ago. And you know,

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Speaker 7: I mean Rodman is also obviously a Hall of Fame

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Speaker 7: caliber player. He's in the Hall of Fame and one

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Speaker 7: of the greatest defenders, one of the greatest rebounders of

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Speaker 7: all time. So yeah, I mean he's instrumental in the

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Speaker 7: Bulls winning championships.

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Speaker 6: Could they have done it without him?

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Speaker 1: I still think yeah.

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Speaker 7: I mean they're probably not the greatest team of all time.

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Speaker 7: Maybe they don't win three in a row, but you know,

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Speaker 7: I got a little faith in Jordan Pippen and Kuck Coach.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think what's overlooking that that ninety eight finals is

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Speaker 5: that the dude had just turned thirty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: He is old when he's rocking it there for the

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Speaker 1: bulls like that.

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Speaker 3: He looks to.

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Speaker 1: Me too, Yeah, I guess, So, I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I just I guess because of his persona and the

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Speaker 5: way he you know, bounds up and down the floor.

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Speaker 1: I just think of him as as always like twenty nine.

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Speaker 5: And I know he kind of looks aged when he

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Speaker 5: comes in in the jammys, but it doesn't it doesn't

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Speaker 5: occur to me that he's played this many years in

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Speaker 5: the NBA and he's that old.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: There's that one, you know, the whole montage of Rodman

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Speaker 2: doing incredible things rebounding and playing defense.

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Speaker 3: There's those two clips.

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Speaker 2: I think they're back to back versus Charles Barkley where

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Speaker 2: he out rebounds them doing the classic Rodman like five

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Speaker 2: tip thing and has no right to get that ball

377
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Speaker 2: and somehow does and Barkley falls to the ground. And

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Speaker 2: then the next clip is him like just staying at

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Speaker 2: home on Barkley, not you know, bumping, jumping on the

380
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Speaker 2: pump fake and then draws the charge is so good

381
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Speaker 2: and I think you've got you got like Gary Payton,

382
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Speaker 2: one of the greatest defenders of all time slipped in there

383
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Speaker 2: saying he's such a pest in a more colorful language

384
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Speaker 2: than that. So good I've been highlight is him diving

385
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Speaker 2: to the crowd the tip rebounds. Just some great passes too.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I definitely have forgotten the Rodman going to

387
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Speaker 7: the sideline but rather than just grab it and turn

388
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Speaker 7: around and throw it in, behind the back saves.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, like this going behind the back saves all the time.

390
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Speaker 6: I was like lit the flair.

391
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The one surprising part is that Dennis Rodman doesn't like

393
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Speaker 5: the city of Nashville. I thought A fan asked him,

394
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Speaker 5: and maybe it's maybe it's just the era, maybe it's

395
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Speaker 5: mid nineties. And this fan asked him, maybe come to Nashville,

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Speaker 5: and Rodman says, I've been there, no, thank you. And

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Speaker 5: maybe maybe in twenty nineteen Rodman can rock it in Nashville.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe that's this just shows how this piece

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Speaker 5: has aged that maybe.

400
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Speaker 1: I don't know.

401
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Speaker 4: I was in Nashville a couple of last month, two

402
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Speaker 4: months ago. I'm right with you, Dennis, I'm not rushing, I.

403
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Speaker 6: Say a note.

404
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 7: In Nashville, he was also hanging out with like Eddie,

405
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Speaker 7: veteran Billy Corgan at the time. I'm not sure he's

406
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Speaker 7: wanting to brow down with George Straight in Nashville.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just stay off the strip when you go

408
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Speaker 2: to Nashville, j D.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's true.

410
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Speaker 3: Some cool pocket.

411
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I was cool. I'm kidding around. I like

412
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Speaker 4: Nashville a lot. As long as I know I'm not

413
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 4: on that strip, I'm fine.

414
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 5: David Alger just wrote a piece about him hanging out

415
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Speaker 5: with Eddie Vedder and jumping off a balcony to do

416
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 5: some some crowdsurfing. Great stuff. If we had some footage

417
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Speaker 5: of that, I would have been a little bit more.

418
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Speaker 5: I just wanted a little more crazy Dennis, right, And.

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Speaker 1: It's just coming now. I mean it's we got six episodes.

420
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Speaker 1: Don't think so well.

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Speaker 8: Bill Winnington had the steady cam out, so maybe he's

422
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Speaker 8: got some clips out there.

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Speaker 3: That was a very funny scene.

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Speaker 2: The other big part of this episode three is like

425
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Speaker 2: we start, you know, build building the dynasty of.

426
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Speaker 3: Of how the Bulls got to the level that they did.

427
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Speaker 2: And you know, we get Doug Collins, sweaty Doug Collins

428
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Speaker 2: coming in there and coaching MJ for three years and

429
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Speaker 2: you know, look, Collins was holding back on how instrumental

430
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Speaker 2: he was. To MG, It's probably true, you know, in

431
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Speaker 2: terms of like being a scoring leader and winning dunk

432
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,919
Speaker 2: contests and All Star give MVPs. It's like that happened

433
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 2: all under Doug Collins. When do you think of the

434
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 2: sweaty Doug Collins seeing there, Lily.

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00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, Doug Collins does still sound a little

436
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 8: bit bitter that he got fired after three seasons. And

437
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Speaker 8: basically his philosophy was I'm just going to give the

438
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Speaker 8: ball to Michael and let him go crazy. And it

439
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 8: worked to a point. But Jordan realized and Jerry Krause

440
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 8: and the front office there realized that unless these other

441
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 8: guys were able to contribute, like Scotti, Pippen and Horace Grant,

442
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,679
Speaker 8: the Bulls probably weren't going to get past the Piston.

443
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 8: So it sort of took some convincing of Jordan to say,

444
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 8: you're going to score less and shoot less, but we

445
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 8: need to get these other guys involved once he saw

446
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 8: that they had success. But for Doug Collins, I think

447
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 8: he feels that, you know, he deserved to at least

448
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 8: stay there. I mean, they did make the Eastern Conference

449
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 8: finals in his last season you know, and we're up

450
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 8: to one on the piston, so he probably felt that

451
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 8: the success was right there and he deserves chance to

452
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 8: go out and get it. But that wasn't going to

453
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 8: be the case, and the Bulls made the move. And

454
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 8: you know, I mean, you know, Doug talking about like

455
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,479
Speaker 8: the growth that Michael showed, like yes, but you know,

456
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 8: Jordan I think was already on that trajectory anyway, and

457
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 8: but Doug, I guess, wanted more credit for that. So

458
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 8: it was interesting though that he just he's still you

459
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,719
Speaker 8: could just feel it in his voice and in his

460
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 8: emotion there that he was like, I, you know, didn't

461
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 8: want to get fired. I wanted to keep going. So

462
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 8: I thought that was good TV there to have him

463
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 8: in there, to show that he's still feeling bitter, like

464
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 8: thirty years later.

465
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 7: Well, I don't think we got the full story of

466
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 7: how Phil Jackson took over for Doug Collins, which is

467
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 7: probably why Collins is a little bit salty about it,

468
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 7: because Phil was certainly instrumental in assuming leadership. You notice

469
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 7: he was cozying up right next to Jerry Krauss's favorite

470
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 7: and then suddenly he became Jerry Krauss's favorite and look

471
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 7: who takes over just like that, And then of course

472
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 7: Michael Jordan brings Doug Collins into the Wizards and now

473
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 7: Doug Collins is back with the balls full circle.

474
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 8: Well, that other part of it as well is that

475
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 8: you know, with Text Winter there that Doug Collins was

476
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 8: reluctant to implement the triangle offense and that didn't bode

477
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 8: well with Jerry Crosse. He wanted he wanted a better

478
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 8: connection there, and Phil and Text were building that relationship

479
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 8: while Doug was still the head coach. And I think

480
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 8: when Jerry saw that, he realized that, you know, if

481
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 8: Phil Jackson is going to adopt this, then I think

482
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 8: I won him as the head coach. And Doug to

483
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 8: his last day he basically sort of resisted that and

484
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 8: that ended up costing him in a big way.

485
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're missing something though from here this story. There

486
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: is no doubt the real specifics of Phil slipping in

487
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: there and I don't know, whispering in a weird way

488
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 2: and like Jerry Cross is here or something. And look,

489
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 2: Phil Jackson put in time as a coach. I mean

490
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: we saw that, you know obviously later in episode four

491
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 2: of like his Stops before becoming an NBA head coach.

492
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it is a little a little weird,

493
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: and he was only there for three years, and Jordan's

494
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: on the rise. Teams on the rise, like you said,

495
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: either in the finals for crying out loud or up

496
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: at one point and then and then he's out.

497
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: But hell of a call by Jerry Cross. I mean,

498
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: I don't know.

499
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm skeptical they go on, especially as we see having

500
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: to manage some of these egos and these personalities that

501
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 2: Collins could have done as great as job as Phil Jackson, right,

502
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 2: I mean, forget the basketball IQs and what you're running

503
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: out there for a second, just that the managing of

504
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: these at times eventually crazy characters. I don't see that

505
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: being the case with Doug Collins, at least not to

506
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: the obviously the level of success that Phil Jackson got to.

507
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 5: But Doug Collins ever had them doing sun salutations, I

508
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 5: don't think so.

509
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 6: Barefoot yoga, I love it.

510
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: We get the Bulls Cavs eighty nine series. Uh, this

511
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: was great because I had you know, you only see

512
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: the highlight. You only see the crazy Jordan game winning

513
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: jumper at the free throw line over Craigielow and the

514
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: celebration where he's pumping his fist and he jumps.

515
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 3: In, you know, a mile in the air.

516
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: That's really all you see unless you were living, but

517
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: you got to see a little bit more. It's a

518
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: little flushed out, a little bit better. MJ missing a

519
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: free throw at the end of the game four obviously

520
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: an instrumental free throw. And I always forget that Elo

521
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: hit the potential game winning layup prior to MJ's shot

522
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 2: over him. You get the Ron Harper dilemma here of like, hey,

523
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: let me guard him, MJ. I do the best job,

524
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: and why are we putting Craig Elo on him? You

525
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: get MJ saying that he only has time for one dribble,

526
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: and then we see the clip where he dribbles twice

527
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: where he rised up, so he actually had time for two.

528
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 6: MJ.

529
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: I just love this whole thing.

530
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: And you know, Casra are definitely a forgotten great team

531
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: I think in sort of NBA history that really really

532
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: were good, not getting to.

533
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 3: The elite level.

534
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: But this is the start of the Bulls, you know,

535
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: becoming a winning franchise. As they say in the doc.

536
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: What do you think about this or what do you

537
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: remember even Lee maybe from this sort of eighty nine series.

538
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, that that's what's interesting about that game is

539
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 8: at Craig Elo basically won the series for his team

540
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 8: with three seconds to go.

541
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 3: That's a hell of a shot that he's dead exactly.

542
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 8: Well, it's a great play, Yeah, Lenny Wilkins draws up

543
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 8: a great play there, just off the inbounds. He goes

544
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 8: in and gets a layup, and prior to that, Jordan

545
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 8: hit the shot that also put them up with what

546
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 8: six seconds ago, So it was great. But yeah, I

547
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 8: do remember that series because, as Jordan says there, they

548
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 8: lost the season series six to oh to Cleveland, so

549
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 8: Cleveland went in favorite and then Jordan, you know, with

550
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 8: the beat riders there as well, they all basically said,

551
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 8: you know, I think Cleveland's gonna win. Cleve, he's gonna

552
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 8: win Clean He's gonna win. And then Jordan uses that,

553
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 8: you know, we get a little insight into that that

554
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 8: motivation that Jordan always looked for someone sort of to

555
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 8: ride him off or to think that he wouldn't be

556
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 8: able to win, and he uses that and he goes

557
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 8: out there and gets the win. But yeah, it's a

558
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 8: it's a great play, it's a great moment, and it

559
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 8: really does show you that, you know how competitive Jordan

560
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 8: was early on, and how determined he was to get

561
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 8: over line and always to try to beat those bigger

562
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 8: teams that sort of you know, had better depth and

563
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 8: you know, better better players, I guess than his team.

564
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 8: But already you could see Jordan being able to carry

565
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 8: his team over line. So yeah, it was. It was

566
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 8: a pretty fascinating series. I do remember that one that

567
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 8: we got, and of course the shot is the one

568
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 8: that sort of seals it, and that's the that's the

569
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 8: iconic moment from early Jordan days.

570
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 7: And I love that there are so many future balls

571
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 7: on these old teams that Jordan was beating, whether it

572
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 7: be Rodman or Sally, or the fact that this is

573
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 7: basically Ron Harper's introduction to the series and he's just

574
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 7: crushing his coach for letting Craig Elo try to guard

575
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 7: Jordan twice in the final ten seconds of the game,

576
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 7: maybe after the first one, switch it up, Bud does?

577
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: Does Ron Harper guard that any better? What does he do? Well?

578
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: Member just hung in the air and.

579
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 6: Craig bangs, Oh yeah, for sure.

580
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 5: It's it's just he's chillen. ELO's probably has I don't know,

581
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 5: three four inches on Ron Harper, but yeah, it is

582
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 5: Ron Harper. Everybody loving that quote. He asks, gimme, gimme him,

583
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 5: just let me guard him. He says, nah, we're putting

584
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 5: Elo on him. I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever this bulsh.

585
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's pissed.

586
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 5: And the other one that sort of referenced if only

587
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 5: we had the footage of MJ at the scorer's table

588
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 5: before game five starts, before the final game of the

589
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 5: series starts, there's three beat writers right there. One apparently

590
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 5: picked the calves in three, one picked the calves in four,

591
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 5: and Sam Smith, who's telling the story, picked the calves

592
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 5: in five. And as he's getting his hands ready, he's

593
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 5: getting his his shoes ready, goes to each beat reporter,

594
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 5: we already took care of you. We already took care

595
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 5: of you, and now you, Sam Smith, we're gonna take

596
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 5: care of you tonight. I mean, that's if that happened.

597
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 5: I believe, Sam Smith. I believe that the phenomenal.

598
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: Stuff reminiscent task of Doc Rivers and the Clippers. You

599
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: were the only one that picked the clips.

600
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 3: Series was that was that the clips spur No yeah, yeah,

601
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 3: Chris Paul.

602
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 8: He hits the Yeah.

603
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, they won game six and seven of that series. Right,

604
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 5: s five game series can be fun. We might see

605
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 5: some of those in uh in August.

606
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: Who knows, jeez, pray for that at this point.

607
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

608
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Then we spin this into we get the Jordan rules.

609
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: Everybody noticed about the Jordan rules, but it was cool

610
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: to hear them, like, actually explain Brendam alone. I wrote

611
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 2: them down. You know I'm paraphrasing here, but push Jordan

612
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: to the elbow, so don't let him drive baseline, influence

613
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: him to his left when you can make him go

614
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: left when he's in the post, trap him from the top,

615
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: and really the Jordan rule, just knock his ass down

616
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: every time he gets close to the page.

617
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 3: I love all these like sort of fake other rules,

618
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: but it's like, just hit them just when he gets close,

619
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 3: just you know, pummel.

620
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: Him, put you know, put a noble in his chest,

621
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: hit him in the head, whatever you gotta do.

622
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

623
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 7: In case of emergency, break Jordan. There were three rules,

624
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,239
Speaker 7: but the fourth rule is really all that matters. As

625
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 7: soon as you get beat knock him down. And you know,

626
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 7: it basically worked. It made the NBA learn about weight training.

627
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's exactly right.

628
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: We got a lot of shots of guys working out

629
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 2: in these last two episodes.

630
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I gotta go pump some iron after that

631
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 6: episode last.

632
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: Night putting in the time Jordan rules. We remember that, Lely,

633
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: that's a real thing.

634
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: It really was. I'm just sort of beating them.

635
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 6: Up at least.

636
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 8: Yeah, well not according to the Pistons. Of course, at

637
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 8: the time they were like, na, Na, what are you

638
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 8: talking about. But everybody knew about it. I mean Stam

639
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 8: Smith wrote a book about it too, you know. And yeah,

640
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 8: when you look back at that old footage, you see

641
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 8: guys are not in any way trying to just get

642
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 8: the ball and make a play on the ball. They're

643
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 8: just whacking him and Jordan goes down. And you know

644
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 8: there are times as well, when we get later into

645
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 8: the series when they play the Pisson they end up

646
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 8: sweeping them and Horace Grant gets hit and Jordan's like,

647
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 8: don't go down, stay up, stay up. You know, you've

648
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 8: got to show them that they haven't got you be So,

649
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,239
Speaker 8: you know, Jordan learns so much from that and you know,

650
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 8: he's talked about it as well that he doesn't believe

651
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 8: he would have won six titles if he didn't have

652
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 8: to go through that rough time against the Pistons. That

653
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 8: taught into tough and up. It taught him to be hard,

654
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 8: and in the end he was one dishing it to

655
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 8: opponents rather than being on the receiving end. So, you know,

656
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 8: I know he's got that great history and rivalry there

657
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 8: with Isaiah Thomas, which I'm sure we'll get too soon.

658
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 8: But I really did help Jordan become the player that

659
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 8: he was, the tough player he was because they beat

660
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 8: him up so often and so regularly, and he learnt

661
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 8: that that was how he was going to be successful himself.

662
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 5: What year, what summer was it? Was it nineteen ninety

663
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 5: where they show the balls going into the weight room

664
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 5: just after losing the Pistons when they decide that they

665
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 5: have to work out.

666
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: Is it ninety?

667
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 8: I think I thought that was after eighty nine.

668
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: I thought that was.

669
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, I believe, Yeah.

670
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: Okay, that makes a little more sense. Yeah, just I

671
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 5: find it hard to believe that. I guess the second okay, fine,

672
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 5: I guess it is the second time that they lose

673
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 5: to the Pistons.

674
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, because they makes sense.

675
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: But it makes me think, just go work out. But

676
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: I guess guys.

677
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 5: Guys didn't work out back then, but they decided, you

678
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 5: know what, I think I gotta be tougher.

679
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you gonna say ly?

680
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 8: Oh no, I think yeah, because after eighty nine they

681
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 8: lost in six and then it was nineteen ninety Phil's

682
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 8: first season where they lost in seven. And that was

683
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 8: also the Scotty pipp and Migraine game. Yeah, yeah, where

684
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 8: the Bulls had a real chance and then they kind

685
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 8: of got killed in game seven. And that was another

686
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 8: sort of turning point there for Jordan and for Scotty Pippen.

687
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 8: That that was very interesting how Jordan answered that question there.

688
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's it.

689
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: That's an episode for it. We will get to that

690
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: any more. Random observations of from episode three. I know

691
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: you were tweeting about the Sniff Brothers. Uh scene, hilarious scene.

692
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: I think you had what Splash brother is still greater

693
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: than the Sniff Brothers. Yeah, I'm not sure I agree

694
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 3: with that, but.

695
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, six titles, the three titles, Yeah, I know I

696
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 8: did it, didn't I thought I had the right tweet

697
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 8: there but it wasn't. When I look back at it,

698
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 8: I wasn't sure how. I was trying to just say,

699
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 8: you know, the nineties had the Sniff Brothers, we have

700
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 8: the Flash Brothers. But yeah, it didn't. It didn't quite

701
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 8: come out. But but you know what's interesting, I tweeted

702
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 8: this as well, and this, this really annoys me. When

703
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 8: they show that eighty nine series, they show in Game

704
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 8: three where Jordan does the flip over Bill Lanebier, that

705
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 8: is not from Game three. That is from Game six,

706
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 8: and that was also in the Bad Boys documentary. So

707
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 8: ESPN sort it out. You can't fool us. I've seen

708
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 8: I've got it on tape a million times. It's a

709
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 8: great play, no doubt about it. But don't pretend it

710
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 8: wasn't in game six. It was Game three as soon

711
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 8: as it Like, I tweeted that out of rage as well.

712
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 8: I'm like this one. People are probably gonna say, oh, yeah,

713
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 8: who cares, man, I've just enjoyed the documentary.

714
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: Get it right, man, come on, come on, very fired

715
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 3: up about that. Yeah, they were showing us in the

716
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: wrong game even though it's the rates.

717
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

718
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, but again, like when I saw it in the

719
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 8: Bad Boys doc I was like, all right, I'll let

720
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 8: this one slide, but not in this one. Come on,

721
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 8: come on.

722
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: Just one more thing with the Sniff Brothers seemed too

723
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it was maybe I'm reading it wrong,

724
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: but to me, Jordan and maybe the entire room didn't

725
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: like that guy that brought the camera crew in there. Yeah,

726
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: really feeling that guy right?

727
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 6: No, yeah, that guy is not a sniff brother.

728
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, get out of here. He's like the

729
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 5: guy that first couple of times you tell the joke,

730
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 5: nobody likes it, get the heck out of here, but

731
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 5: just keeps repeating it, repeating it, repeating, and then George's like, okay,

732
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 5: it's funny.

733
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: Now it's funny.

734
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just to get that guy to leave and

735
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: to shut up. Yeah, I got a couple of the blonde.

736
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 6: Haired sniff brother though.

737
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 7: That guy, that guy is gonna be a legend if

738
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 7: we get to see more Sniff Brothers down the line.

739
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: What a look, hope we've got a bullet. I don't know.

740
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 6: That was like a one of a hind kind haircut.

741
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 7: It was almost like a Jack Sikma turned into a mullet,

742
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 7: and you're starring.

743
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 6: In a Beastie Boys video. All at the same time

744
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 6: we've had.

745
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 8: The sorry just one more thing idea. I don't know

746
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 8: if you noticed that one of the songs that plighted.

747
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 4: In the yeah, the during the Jordan montage was Prince

748
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: party Man. Yes, terrible choice right out listen. That song

749
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 4: was famous in Batman like that's what made it famous,

750
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 4: the Joker trashing the museum, And as soon as it

751
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 4: came came on, I was like, I'm out of this

752
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 4: dock and I'm thinking about that.

753
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 6: You know.

754
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: Also, Prince famously ever so slightly overrated. Michael Jordan not overrated,

755
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: so why have him in there?

756
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 8: I mean it was because at the time, at the time,

757
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 8: that's when the movie and the.

758
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 4: Sung I understand, it was nineteen eighty nine and there

759
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: the line is there's a new king in.

760
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: Town or something like that.

761
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was fine, but you know, I was very

762
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: happy to hear the beast two Boys skeets mentioned it

763
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: before the Maestro over the Rodman montage.

764
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 6: That was awesome.

765
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: It's perfectly perfectly scored that part.

766
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, and it ends with that scene of him

767
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 7: walking out of the game, like right into the camera.

768
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 6: That looked amazing too.

769
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 7: That though.

770
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he point gives a little point or whatever

771
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: they camera is.

772
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 6: That the same one? Exactly right?

773
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: Just one more thing, a Sniff Brothers. So we've had

774
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: the Pippin episode, Robin episode. He sort of a Phil

775
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: Jackson episode coming up in episode four. Think we do

776
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: get a Sniff Brother's episode episode.

777
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 7: I was watching Sports Center last night and Van Pelt

778
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 7: said there is going to be more Sniff Brothers, So

779
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 7: I don't know Sniff's and six Oh.

780
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: Man, I can't wait.

781
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: A couple other random observations that I'll throw in. We

782
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: get the scene Craig Sager slipping Rodman a twenty dollars

783
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: bill to pay for his fine.

784
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 6: Awesome that was.

785
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 3: I love it rest in peace sake, So that's so good.

786
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 7: Uh.

787
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: David Aldridge never aged right, Well, a lot of got better,

788
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: Like he got younger looking.

789
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 8: I think, well, you could say the same thing for

790
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 8: bj Armstrong and Common Electro. Yeah, something is something crazy about.

791
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: That, I know.

792
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: But Aldridge honestly looked older in the in in the

793
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: older clips.

794
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 3: Twenty years ago or whatever, like it was. It's mind boggling.

795
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 2: There's a really weird sign that maybe somebody can explain

796
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: to me.

797
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: It says who would have funk it?

798
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 7: Is that referencing and it looks like a strip like

799
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 7: a comic panel. Yeah, like somebody talking. I guess it was.

800
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 6: That was after the Bulls beat the Calves.

801
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 7: I guess right, So I guess that's maybe saying that, Yeah,

802
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 7: you all picked us who would have thunk it?

803
00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 3: Who would have fucked it?

804
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: That's definitely gonna be my next NBA side I take.

805
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: And just early on in this is my final one.

806
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: You guys can add any other one random observations or whatever,

807
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: like questions Reggie Miller crossing up Jordan on the break,

808
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: like it was really early in this app when the

809
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: Bulls dropped to eight and seven before we get the

810
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: whole like really inspiring Rodman to be the second guy

811
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: with no pippin. Uh, just weird to see Reggie on

812
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: the fast break. Yeah, dribbling clip you see of Reggie,

813
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, it's just shooting and it's like he sort

814
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: of crosses them up on the break and finishes inside.

815
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 6: Yeah.

816
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 7: It was a tough one for MJ in Indianapolis because

817
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 7: not only did you get crossed over by Reggie Miller,

818
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 7: but the very first shot we get of Jordan in

819
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 7: episode three. He's wearing that gigantic brown beret with a

820
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 7: humongous brown coat. Then he's got a white tucked in

821
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 7: mock turtleneck t shirt. I was like, wow, this guy

822
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 7: looks like a fancy inspector gadget. We had Phil Jackson

823
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 7: looking like the real one last week. But Jordan with

824
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 7: that baggy beret.

825
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 8: What a look. Yeah, that meme, that meme should be

826
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 8: he goes to Paris once.

827
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 6: Got the Rais on deck.

828
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 7: I also thought it was crazy to see Rodman's draft pick,

829
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 7: the number twenty seven pick, and they just mentioned it

830
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 7: like he won a technical Excellence oscar. A couple other

831
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 7: picks that happened here, Dennis Rodman number twenty seven.

832
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: Just they were on commercial break, like, no, we missed this, sorry,

833
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: don't worry about it.

834
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 5: Was that was the second round back then, right, yeah, yeah,

835
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 5: look in the second round. A couple of things. Well,

836
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 5: we talked about the drink that Michael Jordan had sitting

837
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 5: beside him during all the interviews, so it was revealed

838
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 5: it was a tequila.

839
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, surprising.

840
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a part owner or owner of a tequila

841
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 5: company and that's what he's drinking there. Ramona Shelburne tracked

842
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 5: that piece of info down.

843
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: So now we know, and.

844
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 5: I want to talk a little a little Tony Kuk coach.

845
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 5: We didn't talk about him whatsoever. But when Rodman gets

846
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 5: kicked out of that basketball game there, I don't know,

847
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 5: it's a couple months into the season and Jordan gets

848
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 5: pissed and he said, this guy's being selfish, He's leaving

849
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 5: me alone out there. I mean, isn't this when you

850
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 5: rely on Tony Kuk coach? Isn't this the time? Or

851
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 5: does that just speak to the animosity between MJ and

852
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 5: Kuck coach or MJ and everybody else like he just

853
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 5: he couldn't. Okay, maybe John Paxson isn't can't be your

854
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 5: number two? But can't Tony Kuk coach the legend be

855
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 5: number two? And maybe we'll get to more Tony Kuk

856
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 5: coach down the road here in this in this dock

857
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 5: or maybe not. I'm not sure, because it's yeah, it's

858
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 5: an MJ doc. I think that's that's pretty clear. It's

859
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 5: you know, it's all focused around MJ. And it's not

860
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 5: a Dennis Robin dock or else we would have got

861
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 5: more Dennis Robin and maybe we don't get any Tony

862
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 5: Kuk coach, but I think you could have relied, Maybe

863
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 5: you could have relied on Tony to be a number

864
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 5: two guy for a couple of months. I don't know,

865
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 5: nobody cares about Tony Kuo coach.

866
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 6: Okay, well that's it's interesting.

867
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 7: Zach Low had a rite up on him today as well,

868
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 7: and it almost feels like Ku coach isn't dying to

869
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 7: talk about the Bulls at least so far, or maybe

870
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 7: he's just kind of holding it until they get to

871
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 7: his portion of the story, because pretty soon Krass is

872
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 7: going to be recruiting Coup Coach.

873
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 6: They're going to go to the.

874
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 7: Barcelona Olympics and that's where Jordan and Pippen really focus

875
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 7: on him.

876
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 6: So maybe we'll get a Coup Coach episode. You'd have

877
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 6: to imagine.

878
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean you're right, Tony Kuk coach at

879
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 7: that point, with Pippin out of the lineup and Rodman,

880
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 7: you know, not being.

881
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 6: A scoring threat, co coach had to do stuff for sure.

882
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 6: Back then. I mean he was starting come playoff time

883
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 6: as well.

884
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because he was what he won sixth man

885
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 2: during the seventy two to ten season, right, mm hmm, Yeah,

886
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: so that's a couple of years prior, and yeah, he'd

887
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: obviously blossom into an even better player by that.

888
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: No, that's a fair point. I hope we get some

889
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: coup coach for sure.

890
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: I guess so, I guess we will talk.

891
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we still got six, so I'm still holding out

892
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: hope at least. All Right, Well, before we break down

893
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: episode four of the Last Dance, a quick word from

894
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: one of our sponsors.

895
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 7: The Black Talks believes every groom deserves a better experience

896
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898
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899
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900
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902
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903
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904
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907
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909
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910
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916
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917
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Speaker 6: But if online isn't.

918
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921
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922
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923
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924
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926
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927
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928
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932
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Speaker 2: Okay, episode four, you can call it the Phil Jackson episode.

933
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: You could maybe call it the bad Boys episode.

934
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: Le Let's go to you. Biggest takeaway from from this one.

935
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 8: The hostility between Michael and Isaiah is just as tense

936
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 8: today and it was great. I thought that was a

937
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 8: really good moment there. How Isaiah talked about you know,

938
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 8: the biggest I guess of the Jordan Isaiah rivalry is

939
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 8: the disrespect that Jordan felt Isaiah and the Pistons displayed

940
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 8: when they walked off after the bulls swept them in

941
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety one. And Michael kind of when the producer

942
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 8: there was saying, you know, this is basically what Isaiah said,

943
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 8: and Michael didn't even still didn't even want to hear

944
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 8: it and basically said, he's going to make up an

945
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 8: excuse or he's going to change the story. And then

946
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 8: he hears what Isaiah said and he's kind of is

947
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 8: just you know, like dismissive of it, and he just

948
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 8: doesn't like him, and that really, I mean, I guess

949
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 8: we'll see it at some point played into the Barcelona Olympics.

950
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 8: I think it's very clear that Michael did not want

951
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 8: Isaiah on that team, because I think he deserved to

952
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 8: be on there. But their animosity towards each other has

953
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 8: not dissipated at all in the time that's gone by,

954
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 8: even though, as I said earlier, Jordan kind of respects

955
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 8: what the Pistons did to help him become the player

956
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 8: he was, but he certainly didn't like the fact that

957
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 8: they disrespected him. And Jordan pointed out after eighty eight

958
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 8: and eighty nine and ninety, you know, he shook hands

959
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 8: and he wished them all the best as they moved

960
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 8: on to the finals, and the fact that Isaiah wasn't

961
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 8: able to do that to him was the ultimate sign

962
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 8: of disrespect and Jordan just will never forgive that. I guess. Yeah,

963
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 8: that's what we're seeing.

964
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: And then Isaiah saying, though, hey, the Celtics did that

965
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: to us. This is what you did, you know once, yeah,

966
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: once you were taaken down, you just let like.

967
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: That's what he's saying.

968
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, no he did.

969
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 3: I thought he backs it up and besides him and Michel, yeah.

970
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 8: Yeah he did. But that also doesn't make it right.

971
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 8: In my opinion, that like that you all you're doing

972
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 8: then is basically saying, you know, well, the Celtics did it,

973
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 8: so I did it, But that doesn't make you look

974
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 8: any better. In my opinion, he could have Isaiah could

975
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 8: have overcome that, because that's one instance that happened, of

976
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 8: course with the Celtics. But I don't think that was

977
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 8: the way. I mean, I think Larry and Magic always

978
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 8: respected each other when they met in the finals, and

979
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 8: you know, Magic and Isaiah also respected each other, like

980
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 8: Magic was always there, I guess, you know, when they

981
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 8: when they met in the finals in eighty eight and

982
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 8: then in eighty nine, so you know, I thought Isaiah

983
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 8: was trying to sort of deflect a little bit there,

984
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 8: but what he did was ultimately wrong and he shouldn't

985
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 8: have done it. But Isaiah has kind of said as

986
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 8: well that he regrets doing that now.

987
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 3: He said, like I would I would have just shaken

988
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: their hands.

989
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think I thought it was.

990
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 6: Great to see Jordan pre call him up for that.

991
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 7: He's going to say, you know, either that's how it

992
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 7: was back then, or that my parts have changed because

993
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 7: of the media reaction, and that's exactly what Isaiah said.

994
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah right, but will there ever be something that Isaiah

995
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: can say that, will you know, please Jordan, I mean.

996
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 7: Froze Jordan out of his very first All Star game.

997
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 7: Jordan's going to carry that with him for the next

998
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 7: sixty years.

999
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I back when not getting them on the Dream Team, So.

1000
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 8: Yeah right, I don't think unless Isaiah comes with some

1001
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 8: groveling apology and I saw someone tweet about it as well,

1002
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 8: try to get Michael and Isaiah to have an interview

1003
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 8: like Magic and Isaiah or Shaq and Kobe. I mean,

1004
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 8: that would be awesome TV to see, my God, you know,

1005
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 8: I doubt Jordan would even do that, though I'm sure

1006
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 8: Isaiah would be out for it, but I dad Jordan

1007
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 8: would even want to give him the time.

1008
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: We really, well, what is a what did a young

1009
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: Trey Kirby, young Bulls fan Trey Kirby think of? You

1010
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: know that ninety one Eastern Conference final where the Bulls

1011
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 2: finally dominate them and the Pistons leave with about eight

1012
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: seconds to go.

1013
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 7: Ninety one season is kind of my earliest memories for sure.

1014
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 7: So for me, I was just on top of the

1015
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 7: world seeing the Bulls go to the finals for the

1016
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 7: first time, and you know, like at that point I'm

1017
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 7: a Dennis Rodman hater because of the way he laid

1018
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 7: the wood on Scottie Pippen a year prior, so you know,

1019
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 7: to rub it in their face was huge. But to me,

1020
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 7: I'm also like, hey, hey, we got the best player

1021
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 7: of all time. I don't know any better. We should

1022
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 7: just be going to the finals. But yeah, I mean,

1023
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 7: my dad was one hundred percent happy. My dad and

1024
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 7: my friends to this day are still very anti Lambier

1025
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 7: as you would imagine.

1026
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 6: So getting the win is huge.

1027
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: Get a dominating win in that the sweep after getting

1028
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: you know, beat what three years there and killed them

1029
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: in game four? I forgot that I ninety four I

1030
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: think was the final score of that game four with

1031
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 2: the Pistons.

1032
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: Head on out.

1033
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, we do get prior to that the ninety

1034
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 2: East finals, and you know you alluded to it earlier

1035
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 2: there lead the Scottie Pippen blinding migraine game.

1036
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 3: JD.

1037
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: Did you connect with this one? You unfortunately suffered from migraines.

1038
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: Do you believe Scotty?

1039
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: Do I believe him? Why is that?

1040
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 4: Is that a thing people aren't believing.

1041
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 8: Him, well, doesn't believe it.

1042
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 4: I got that impression for sure. Hey it's a migraines

1043
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 4: are no joke, man. But I've directed many, many episodes

1044
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 4: of The Starters with the migraine, and you guys didn't

1045
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 4: seem to notice.

1046
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: So I don't think that MG doesn't not believe that

1047
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: Pippen had a migraine.

1048
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: MJ thinks who cares? Right, you should still be.

1049
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: Able to ball out with a migraine, that's my interpretation

1050
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: of it.

1051
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right. Yeah, but

1052
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 4: you know that's somebody who probably doesn't suffer from migraines.

1053
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 4: And literally you cannot see like you see double something,

1054
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 4: and sometimes I go almost completely blind in my left eye.

1055
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 3: So it's bad, right, right, I mean.

1056
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,479
Speaker 4: But then why I don't understand why he would play

1057
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 4: like would why would he just say, hey, I cannot

1058
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 4: I can't just can't play like, I can't go, I

1059
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 4: can't shoot the ball. So why was he out there

1060
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 4: at all?

1061
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 5: I mean the shot of him coming into the pregame

1062
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 5: huddle where the Michael says, hey, where Scotty, where's bj

1063
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 5: Scotty and Scotty gone, Meander's over and you see him,

1064
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 5: and he kind of looks like he's high as a mother. Yeah,

1065
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 5: he just looks like he's out of it. And maybe

1066
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 5: that's the context and it's just a little confirmation bias watching,

1067
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 5: but he doesn't look all right. I just don't think

1068
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 5: and at this point in nineteen ninety, after being around

1069
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 5: and fought these fighting these pistons, that Scotty would be

1070
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 5: in any way, shape or form trying to find an

1071
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 5: excuse for a bad game, like it doesn't make any

1072
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 5: sense to me. But when when MJ was asked about

1073
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 5: it by the producer, MJ definitely led a yeah, the MiG.

1074
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: Had a good smile about it.

1075
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 5: But it goes back to last week when when somebody

1076
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 5: asked when when they talked about Michael having that injury

1077
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 5: in nineteen eighty six and whether or not he would

1078
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 5: just play on it, and you know if they brought

1079
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 5: up that headache analogy, and he said, well, it depends

1080
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 5: how bad the headache is, right, I mean, I guess

1081
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 5: he just never he never suffered it. As JD said,

1082
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 5: so you don't you don't really know, Well.

1083
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: What's what's the excuse for all the other Bulls players

1084
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: in that game? Seven versus the East Finals. Did they

1085
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: all have migraines? Because a lot of them sucked ass

1086
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: in that game and that goes overlooked. Pip Yeah, was garbage.

1087
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: He was one for ten in Game seven. Credit to

1088
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: the Pistons, credit to Rodman, of course, and credit to

1089
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: the Migraine for maybe slowing them down. Pippin played forty

1090
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: two minutes. JD's let alone, like you were talking about

1091
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: the idea of like, oh, maybe he shouldn't even play,

1092
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: played forty two minutes in that Game seven and went

1093
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: for two, two and four.

1094
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: That's it.

1095
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 7: But but his hass this point, when Rodman went out

1096
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 7: in the ninety seven ninety eight or when Pippin went

1097
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 7: out in the ninety seven ninety eight season, despite the

1098
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 7: fact that even Kouk coach was there, Steve Kerr is there,

1099
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 7: you know, at the time, the best percentage guy in

1100
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 7: three point history. They still got the majority of their

1101
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 7: championship team, and he's saying, I got nobody around me

1102
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 7: except for Dennis Rodman. So I mean, I'm sure in

1103
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety he's thinking, Scottie Pippens out here playing with

1104
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 7: the Migraine. It's just me one on five against the

1105
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 7: team that's beating us already two straight years.

1106
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean yeah.

1107
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 2: To go through the box score, Game seven, Detroit ninety

1108
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: East Finals, the Bulls, Horace Grant shot three of seventeen

1109
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: from the floor. Well, he must have had a hangnail

1110
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: that game. I guess bj Armstrong he had the runs.

1111
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 2: I guess he went one for eight off the bench.

1112
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: Craig Hodges had a little pain in his stomach. He

1113
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: shot three of thirteen, two for twelve from distance, twelve

1114
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: three pointers in nineteen ninety one game I got and

1115
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: Bill Cartwright sore elbow from the way he shoots three

1116
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: to nine, so they, I mean, yeah, every nobody besides

1117
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: Jordan showed up in that game, and a lot of

1118
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: get credit to the Pistons for unbelievable defense. But I god,

1119
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Pip gets buried in this one, and he's like just

1120
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 2: trying to say I wasn't at my best.

1121
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: I was one hundred percent. These other guys, what's their excuse?

1122
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 3: They're just as bad three as seventeen horse.

1123
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

1124
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 7: I thought it was funny to hear Horace Grant basically

1125
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 7: saying like, yeah, they would come out there and they

1126
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 7: would try and get in their heads and they would

1127
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 7: and it was over. I'm like, Horas, you're not supposed

1128
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 7: to be admitting this right now, you're saying you got

1129
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 7: punks because they were trying to punk you. But that's

1130
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 7: I mean, once we get into next I think the

1131
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 7: next episode they're going to start talking about the book

1132
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 7: The Jordan Rules, and there's a lot of that in there.

1133
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 7: Jordan says not only does he start strength training, he

1134
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 7: also says, I started getting a little harder on my

1135
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 7: teammates and that's gonna be Pippin and Horace Grant just

1136
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 7: being belittled for I guess two hours next week.

1137
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 3: Look forward to that.

1138
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: Tune in on Sunday night MJ's yell at his teammates.

1139
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 2: The other big part of this, too, is more into

1140
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: the coaching. Like I said, it could be called the

1141
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: Phil Jackson episode if you want, where we get his backstory,

1142
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 2: him rising up the ranks, Jerry Crows ultimately getting him

1143
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 2: there on the bulls and you know what happened between

1144
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: Doug Collins and text Winner fighting over running that triangle

1145
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: offense and Phil basically just coming in saying we got

1146
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 2: to create other threats, like the spotlight.

1147
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 3: Is on you when you have the ball and all

1148
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 3: eyes are on you.

1149
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: There are other guys out there. We can actually make

1150
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 2: this easier for you. I thought this, This is always interesting.

1151
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: I think Phil Jackson is such a fascinating I mean character,

1152
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: I mean like person. Right, He's so he's so unique,

1153
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 2: at least in a sporting world. I don't think I'm

1154
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: going that far and saying that.

1155
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 6: Well, I think he's certainly in an enchanting guy.

1156
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 7: You know, Michael Jordan Biden to play to him to

1157
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 7: the point where he's saying, this is the only guy

1158
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 7: I will play for.

1159
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 6: During the height of his powers.

1160
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 7: Dennis Rodman obviously was under his best behavior for that

1161
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 7: time when Phil Jackson was the coach. And it's all

1162
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 7: because Phil's got away with words because tex Winner had

1163
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 7: had these ideas forever and he's just an assistant guy

1164
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 7: the entire time. But Phil's smart enough to look at

1165
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 7: him to listen, to understand, you know, understand the offense

1166
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 7: and then how it can actually be.

1167
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 6: Applied to a game.

1168
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 7: Coming from being you know, they basically called him a

1169
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 7: Dannis Rodman type player back in the day.

1170
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, and prior to that, you hear Jordan say, I'm

1171
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 8: not I wasn't a Phil Jackson guy. You know, he

1172
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 8: wasn't happy that Doug was out and fills in. But

1173
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 8: eventually Phil was able to get him on board and

1174
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 8: convince him and see how effective the team would be

1175
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 8: if Jordan basically empowered those other guys, and eventually it worked.

1176
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 8: So yeah, again, I think it speaks to Phil's ability

1177
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 8: to sort of communicate with people from you know, all

1178
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 8: up and down the roster, and that was thing. But

1179
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 8: it was great seeing those clips of Phil with those

1180
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 8: really gangly shoulders that he had.

1181
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what Nora said, shoulders on this guy, Like, yeah,

1182
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: he had a fascinating body. He was ridmand Lake in

1183
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: a weird way for sure, and the hustle and the

1184
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 2: rebounding and all that.

1185
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was it was wild to see. Yeah, that

1186
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 5: footage of him as a New York neck. Actually, on

1187
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 5: the Tampering podcast, executive producer of The Last Dance Andy

1188
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 5: and told a good story about Phil Jackson when he

1189
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 5: was going through this ninety seven to ninety eight doc

1190
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 5: where he or all the footage that was being recorded

1191
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 5: by NBA Entertainment, and Phil Jackson obviously had a hand

1192
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 5: in saying, you know, what was cool and what was not.

1193
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,439
Speaker 5: And he sometimes said, you know, get out of here, guys,

1194
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 5: we don't want you recording this. And at one point

1195
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 5: he told Andy Thompson the story of when he was

1196
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 5: a New York nick and he was hanging out in

1197
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 5: the back and Willis Reid was getting injected with a shot.

1198
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 5: And Phil Jackson was the Bill Wennington of that era.

1199
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 5: He was snapping everything, He was snapping photos. So Willis

1200
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 5: Reid getting an injection on the table and Phil Jackson

1201
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 5: snapped a photo and Willis Reid and the doctor looked

1202
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 5: at him like, what are you doing? And Phil Jackson

1203
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 5: said to Andy Thompson while they're recording all this footage

1204
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 5: and during the ninety seven ninety eight season, you don't

1205
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 5: want to be me, you know, thirty years ago. You

1206
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 5: just don't want that to happen to you. So get

1207
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 5: out here, don't record absolutely everything. And we still haven't

1208
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 5: seen that photo to this day of Phil Jackson, Will Street.

1209
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 5: And I guess we'll never see all that Bill Wennington

1210
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 5: footage either as Bill Wentnington, as Trey wrote, or Trey

1211
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 5: shared Cassidy Hubbard's tweet there that Bill Wennington will never

1212
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 5: share that footage. He's got it on what VHS tapes?

1213
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, but so many ones.

1214
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, that sounds to me like he's just trying to

1215
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 8: drive out the price a little bit. He's gonna release official.

1216
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 7: What are the hotter tapes to see the Wennington Last

1217
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 7: Dance Cut or Shack at the two thousand dunk Contests.

1218
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: I think it's Wennington's for sure, unless Shack kept that

1219
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,959
Speaker 2: camcorder rolling into the night or something. Yeah, I gotta

1220
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: go Billy Wennington's tapes better than Shack's the Dunk contest tapes.

1221
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 3: I keep thinking too.

1222
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 2: I guess it's similar to what I was saying about

1223
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm amazed that Jordan and Rodman sort of connected, because

1224
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think Jordan would.

1225
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 3: Tolerate a guy like him.

1226
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: You were saying it, Lee, I'm amazed still even to

1227
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,399
Speaker 2: this day, that that Jordan just doesn't think of Phil

1228
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: Jackson as like a quack, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, Yeah,

1229
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 2: it's like it says something I guess to Phil Jackson

1230
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: obviously who he is as a person that he could

1231
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 2: tap into MG Psychi and they could make it work.

1232
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 2: But you know, he came about things differently as a

1233
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: code he's like a damn hippie. And I and I

1234
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 2: also wonder, like Ron and I wonder, did Phil Jackson

1235
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: having success playing in the NBA winning titles with the

1236
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: next two of them, You know, if he doesn't have

1237
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 2: that on his resume, I wonder if MG looks at

1238
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 2: him differently.

1239
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 8: It's possible. But I think as well, because of the

1240
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 8: fact that Doug Collins was such a Jordan guy, that

1241
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 8: Jordan was just resistant to anybody else coming in. Like,

1242
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 8: Jordan loved that he got all the shots, he scored

1243
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 8: all the points and you know, MVP and all that.

1244
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 8: So if you you know, if you're a star on

1245
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 8: the rise and someone says, okay, you know what I'm

1246
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,959
Speaker 8: taking giving you less shots and I'm making you pass

1247
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 8: the ball and involve your teammates more, I can understand.

1248
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 8: You know, it's the same today people in the and yeah,

1249
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 8: they want all the shots, they want to score all

1250
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 8: the points. So it's a tough job to convince someone

1251
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 8: to do that at the start. But once you see

1252
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 8: you're starting to have success with it, then I think

1253
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 8: Jordan obviously starts to trust Phil Jackson more and that's

1254
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 8: how they build their relationship. And I liked how Jerry

1255
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 8: Jerry Krouse talked about when he first brought Phil Jackson in,

1256
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 8: he came in dressed in a really like hippie way,

1257
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 8: and and Jerry Krouse didn't like it at the start.

1258
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 8: And then when he came back for his basically to

1259
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 8: come in to join the team, he told him how

1260
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 8: to dress properly and put on a suit, and you know, Phil,

1261
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 8: Phil reluctantly did. But because when you think about Phil,

1262
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 8: when we saw him obviously with the Lakers and the Bulls,

1263
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 8: he was always in a suit. But prior to that,

1264
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 8: he was the real you know, like this guy from

1265
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 8: the from the bush almost you know.

1266
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's like what you're saying in a weird way,

1267
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: is like, if Phil Jackson takes over in you know,

1268
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: when did Colins kick over?

1269
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 3: Eighty six, eighty seven something like that.

1270
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 8: Collins took Yeah, he had three seasons.

1271
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what eighty seven?

1272
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Eddie one, right, So if Phil Jackson takes over

1273
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: earlier than he did, you wonder if the relationship works

1274
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: as well it did this idea, Hey, hey, let's get

1275
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: everybody else involved, because it may not because at that time,

1276
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 2: Jordan's obviously.

1277
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 3: A lot younger is on the rise, scoring all these points.

1278
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 2: It's like he got five or six years in the

1279
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: NBA to like just run free and probably enjoyed it

1280
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 2: and got all the shots and became obviously a global icon.

1281
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 2: But then at some point it was like, Okay, this

1282
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 2: is cool, but I like winning even more and you know,

1283
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 2: let's figure out maybe how to tweak this to get

1284
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: to that success.

1285
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fascinating.

1286
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 5: You just made me think that Phil Jackson has to

1287
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 5: be the new coach of the Brooklyn Nets. Yeah, we're

1288
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 5: gonna talk about it on Tuesday. But the Nets need

1289
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 5: a coach and they need somebody to be a personality guru.

1290
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 5: Right with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving and France, they

1291
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 5: don't need it necessarily. Hey, this is how you rebound,

1292
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 5: this is how you shoot a basketball. And Phil Jackson, Yeah,

1293
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 5: he came along at the exact perfect time, and it

1294
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 5: is it's just unique seeing MJ go from being stubborn

1295
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 5: MJ the guy that we all know, to all right,

1296
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 5: all right, okay, I see it. I see it in

1297
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 5: a different way because, yeah, he was totally anti Phil

1298
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 5: and then obviously anti everybody else in nineteen ninety.

1299
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 3: Eight ninety one finals.

1300
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: We get a little later in this episode where the

1301
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: Bulls get over the Pistons hump and take on the Lakers.

1302
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: It's marketed as Magic versus Michael. Of course it would

1303
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: be what it is, And I thought I saw you

1304
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 2: tweet about this task or something along these lines, like

1305
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 2: it really is pip It's defense on Magic, that's the

1306
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: game changer. So it's not like Michael's on Magic. It's

1307
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 2: Pippin on them for a good chunk of it and

1308
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: does a great job and they straight ups they do.

1309
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 3: They sweep them in that one No.

1310
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: No.

1311
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 8: One four one.

1312
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: I lost Game one.

1313
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that'shbag sweep bag sweep.

1314
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's cool to see Pippen really sort of

1315
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 2: go next level here defensively on one of the greatest

1316
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: players of all time.

1317
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it shows his length when he's guarding the biggest

1318
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 5: point guard in the history of the NBA, depending depending

1319
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: if you call Lebron six'.

1320
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: Nine you, Know magic is six.

1321
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 5: Nine pippen literally takes away Everything that magic had because

1322
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 5: he's just so. Frickin' long and that's that that's why

1323
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 5: they Call. It pippen, you know if he's not the

1324
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 5: best defender IN. The nba, you know want a top

1325
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 5: one or, top two and. It is it is A

1326
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 5: shame scott he never Got A defensive player Of. THE

1327
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 5: year i guess when you when you look back, at it,

1328
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 5: but yeah it was just just put Him on magic

1329
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 5: and see what they can. Do, IT yeah i guess

1330
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 5: you Know it's it was good to see this a

1331
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 5: little bit for me because people Often Surmise michael jordan's

1332
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 5: finals when when they're always comparing Him to lebron they, always,

1333
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 5: say oh he Beat the lakers at the End of,

1334
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 5: magic's run.

1335
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: They stuck oh.

1336
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 5: They Beat a, portland. Trailblazer seemed oh They Beat charles

1337
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 5: barkley in a band, of misfits and then, they okay

1338
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 5: yeah They beat sean Camp And gary peton who went to.

1339
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 5: One finals always just dismissing these Teams And, magic magic,

1340
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 5: you know he he could have pulled. One Out But

1341
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 5: Scotty maurice peppen was cool, to see just just the

1342
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 5: length versus Length because magic has often depicted us how

1343
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 5: large he was as a, point Guard and scotty's obviously

1344
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 5: just As big.

1345
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 3: Lee did they have all the game clips in The.

1346
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 8: Rates, fies yes. They did, THEY did I.

1347
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: Did, spectaculum.

1348
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 8: Yeah we knew we were going to. SEE that, i mean,

1349
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 8: the real the real question for me is, going back

1350
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 8: just back to nineteen ninety if if it Was the

1351
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 8: bulls And the blazers then because you know THAT that

1352
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 8: i Think was portland's best chance to win. The championship

1353
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 8: but of Course. The lakers, of Course the pistons Beat

1354
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 8: the bulls in that, game seven And the blazer. Could

1355
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 8: win but that would have been pretty fascinating because by

1356
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 8: the time we Got To bulls blazers in, ninety two

1357
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 8: After the bulls had, won one you could just sort

1358
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 8: of see. BACK now i mean it was four to

1359
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 8: two in, that series but you just wonder How the

1360
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 8: blazers really even won, two games like it was just.

1361
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 8: It Wasn't the bulls were just so, MUCH better i

1362
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 8: Think than portland in. That Season so portland kind of

1363
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 8: missed out on their on their chance. To win so

1364
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 8: two weeks in a row we've Had, the blazers, you

1365
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 8: Know Taking sam buie with this number two pick and

1366
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 8: then losing the championship as WELL At schic because it's

1367
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 8: been a bit of a rough couple of weeks here For.

1368
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 8: The blazers, but yeah that ninety one series is pretty Fascinating,

1369
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 8: because jordan even though They lose, game one feels totally.

1370
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 8: CONFIDENCE in i think it might Be In sam. Smith's

1371
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 8: book i'm not, sure who's but he's kind, of like

1372
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 8: we're going to win this series.

1373
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 3: Because they played like crap in the yes almost.

1374
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 8: Once almost one, still, YEAH yeah i mean it was

1375
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 8: that big Three From sam perkins And then pip AND

1376
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 8: missed i think one from half court that could have

1377
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 8: won the game. For them but it just sort of Shows,

1378
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 8: that jordan, even then even though he'd never been TO

1379
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 8: the nba, finals before he, was like we're better Than,

1380
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 8: the lakers and they went out and really dominated them

1381
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 8: in the next. FOUR games i.

1382
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 6: Like getting A little john paxon myth.

1383
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 7: Building here we've seen him hit the shot that got

1384
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 7: him into the playoffs basically in nineteen. Eighty six and

1385
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 7: then it's very funny the way this story, is Told

1386
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 7: like jordan just decided to start passing in one game of.

1387
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 7: The finals he averaged eleven assists for the entirety of,

1388
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 7: the finals also putting up thirty. One points but, YOU

1389
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 7: know i guess he probably would have been more like

1390
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 7: forty and.

1391
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 6: Five assists a year prior or two.

1392
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 2: Years, PRIOR yeah i guess maybe he's passing less in crunch, time,

1393
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 2: too right like, fourth quarter It's like i'll take. This shot,

1394
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 2: but yeah. YOU'RE right i mean he was racking. Up

1395
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 2: assists but It was it's so cool how they pieced

1396
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: it together with like the idea, of, like hey he's

1397
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: Telling him packson's open look at, the DOUBLE and i

1398
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 2: love that the footage backs it.

1399
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: Up right it's like so so. Well done it's just

1400
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: a really.

1401
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 2: Cool, part yeah do you what did you remember then

1402
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: as A Young trey kirby when they won, the title

1403
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: the first championship for you As A chicago.

1404
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 6: Bulls, fan oh it's a.

1405
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 7: Party baby watching it with my dad back in the

1406
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 7: Day and i'm just honestly just celebrating as soon as.

1407
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 7: It happened it was funny watching again. Last night, You

1408
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 7: know paxson's hitting all of these clutch Jumpers.

1409
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 6: And laura looks. At me, she's like what year?

1410
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 7: Is this like this is nineteen ninety. And one, she's

1411
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 7: LIKE so i would, remember, THIS right i, was, LIKE

1412
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 7: yeah i think you. Probably would, she's, like good because

1413
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 7: it actually looks. REALLY familiar i, was, like yeah this

1414
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 7: was a formative moment in. Our Childhood john paxson Just

1415
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 7: Stroking jay's.

1416
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: So you stayed up extra late, that night?

1417
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 6: Did?

1418
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 7: YOU well i mean how late is late when you're.

1419
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 7: A kid, you know if, it's nighttime it feels like.

1420
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:29,479
Speaker 7: It's MIDNIGHT so.

1421
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 6: I guess it was probably like, ten thirty, so, that

1422
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 6: yes that was a late night as a seven.

1423
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: Year old this episode then really ends with back at

1424
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: The current bulls that were following The Last. Dance bulls

1425
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: they're thirty four and fifteen At The all, star break

1426
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 2: so they're, all right and, we get, you know the,

1427
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 2: reignition here the ratcheting up Again of krous pointing out

1428
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 2: that This Is phil jackson's final Year, in chicago and

1429
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 2: that's sort of where the episode end of episode four

1430
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 2: as we head into episode Five Next, sunday night and

1431
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 2: any other random observations from.

1432
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 3: THIS one i got a few bills as somebody else

1433
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 3: get it.

1434
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 8: STARTED here I think i think the best One Was

1435
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 8: jerry kraos has got.

1436
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: Some moves, Oh yeah scotty tells him to, sit down

1437
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 2: even when they're having fun.

1438
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 3: And being enjoyful with, each other so, shut it, sit.

1439
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: Down.

1440
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 7: MAN yeah i thought that was the best segment probably

1441
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 7: of the four episodes, so far was the whole handshake no,

1442
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 7: handshake Segment watching jordan Watch what isaiah said back on

1443
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 7: on the iPad and, you know just seeing the way

1444
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 7: that they all are still so mad at the way.

1445
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 7: Things happens what a Line By horace grant when he

1446
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 7: was asked What the pistons were like walking off the court.

1447
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 6: Straight up bitches.

1448
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 7: Crank going in and the guy was just admitting to

1449
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 7: getting punked one.

1450
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: Hour Ago has, tas tweeted we'll all low WEARING an

1451
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: Nba cares.

1452
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 5: That.

1453
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 7: Was Great, AND jordan i don't know if you could

1454
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 7: kind of catch his his shirt that he was wearing

1455
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 7: after they Beat. The pistons it said three peet with

1456
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 7: a question, on it like clearly that had just been around,

1457
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 7: the arena Like the pistons are trying to win their,

1458
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 7: third straight so he's just rubbing.

1459
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 6: It in it looked like a. GREAT time.

1460
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 3: I got a few.

1461
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: Random observations the one shout out to THE Old nba

1462
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: finals script logo that so damn much still you see

1463
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: it there on the on the side and on the

1464
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,959
Speaker 2: floor of in the ninety one finals that we see

1465
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 2: my favorite one of my random favorite scenes from. This Episode,

1466
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: phil jackson like his favorite quote just SAYING the afc.

1467
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: FINALLY won i HAVE no i that.

1468
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 2: Killed me he's obviously talking About This super bowl and

1469
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: then oh, my god.

1470
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 3: The idea of someone SAYING the afc. Finally won, it's like?

1471
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 6: Who cares this?

1472
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: IS huge i guess that was a big deal. BACK

1473
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: then i guess he likens.

1474
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 5: It, Too hey bulls are gonna. Win too things, are

1475
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 5: changing well Know the celtics one a, lot THOUGH so I.

1476
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 6: Guess.

1477
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 5: Pistons Yeah mike wilbon two such a.

1478
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: GOOD interview i, loved anytime being Obviously a chicago guy

1479
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: and him talking about hating his cousins that Lived in

1480
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 2: detroit while those series were.

1481
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: GOING on i just.

1482
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: THINK he's i just think he's such a good good

1483
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 2: a lot of people that they have in, this art

1484
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 2: but he's. So great he's just just the it. Takes

1485
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: you he really puts you in. The moment, to me

1486
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 2: sometimes better than some of the.

1487
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 7: Other people got a little Bit More scott, burrell action,

1488
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 7: you know coming into the coming into the documentary for.

1489
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 7: Whatever reason jordan just Remembers The scott. Burrell interactions, HE'S

1490
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 7: like i was Tough On. Scott Burrell so, i'm like

1491
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 7: are we going to continue To Get scott burrell just

1492
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 7: getting crushed every?

1493
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 6: Single episode because.

1494
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 7: It feels like they're just throwing it in at this

1495
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 7: point to to give us a little taste of THE.

1496
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 7: Backstage mj because that was crazy when they finally got on. The,

1497
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 7: plane uh and they're. Just chatting, You know MJ's wearing

1498
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 7: a better. Fitting beret he takes. It off he's Wearing

1499
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 7: His ark forret look rather than rather than the, tan

1500
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 7: one and it just. Starts off, he's like, oh man

1501
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 7: this guy loves. The Party Dennis. Rodman junior and then

1502
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 7: you can just see the change Even in, jordan's faces

1503
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 7: like you're still going at this?

1504
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 6: With?

1505
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 7: Me huh and he just gives him a. Fierce look,

1506
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 7: I'M like i, Don't. Know scott i'm feeling Sorry for scott.

1507
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 5: Right.

1508
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 2: Now yeah are we doing All this coparell? Thing stuff

1509
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 2: because does he have a big moment in the finals

1510
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: OR am?

1511
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 3: I crazy There's this. COPARELL game i remember.

1512
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 6: People are saying it's gonna pay off, for, sure.

1513
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah right when when does? That happen doesn't he like

1514
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 3: go for like twenty points or something. LIKE that i

1515
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 3: can't remember what game that, is though, but yeah it's

1516
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: got to be.

1517
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: Coming.

1518
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 3: RIGHT oh mj was hard on, this kid but look.

1519
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 3: What happened, you know he came through in a.

1520
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: Big.

1521
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 5: MOMENT yeah i JUST think mj likes sees the footage's

1522
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 5: like put. THAT in, i like please put that into

1523
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 5: like that moment that it was LIKE probably i, don't

1524
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 5: know forty.

1525
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: Five seconds it was a.

1526
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 5: Long time the longer longer Scenes were, He's, says scotty get.

1527
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 5: Some rest you single man partying, every night get with.

1528
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 5: One Woman and, scotty, look yeah his eyes go deer in.

1529
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 5: The headlights my mom and dad are gonna watch. This

1530
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 5: thing don't put. That in please don't put. That in

1531
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 5: IM j j just wants him to get. SOME rest

1532
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 5: I wonder i WONDER if i don't know If what

1533
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 5: scotty's relationship with his parents is, right NOW but i

1534
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 5: wonder if they saw that last night and gave him. A,

1535
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 5: call scotty, Come, on scotty what do?

1536
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 7: You doing you think he's just been worried about it

1537
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 7: for twenty. Two years, he's like, oh man, OH man

1538
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 7: i hope today is not.

1539
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: THE.

1540
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: Day jb what did you think of these last two

1541
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 2: episodes where they just as entertaining as the first two

1542
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 2: that you seem.

1543
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 4: To, ENJOY yeah I mean i'm really. Enjoying it it's

1544
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 4: very well done a AND like, i said it's something

1545
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 4: that happened during my lifetime but was so far removed

1546
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 4: from so it's this is kind of fun to look

1547
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 4: back at at, the, basketball yes but also just the

1548
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 4: and just how people interacted with.

1549
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: One another this is.

1550
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: Just great well let's call.

1551
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: It there that's it for. Us today we obviously, liked

1552
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 2: it but let's hear from. You guys these last two

1553
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 2: Episodes Of The? Last dance were?

1554
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 3: You fans where?

1555
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: You not what do you want? More of maybe it's

1556
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 2: the coup coach thing that hopefully, Is coming maybe there's.

1557
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: Something else email us let Us Know no dunks At

1558
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 2: the athletic dot com or tweet at Us at No.

1559
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 2: Dunks ink we're gonna have more On The last dance

1560
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 2: a little bit later, this week so make sure you

1561
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 2: subscribe To The no dunks podcast wherever you listen. To

1562
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 2: pods we got a lot of fun podcasts lined up for,

1563
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 2: this week so that'll be fun in.

1564
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 3: The Meantime, clipper bros.

1565
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 2: You heard it, here first have a, great time, turn

1566
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 2: up love you, guys awesome thanks for.

1567
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 5: Joining us gonna give the final quote here To A

1568
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 5: phil Jackson And dennis. Rodman interaction phil Upon Meeting, dennis

1569
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 5: rodman trying to convince him to come To. The bulls

1570
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 5: hey do you want to come play For?

1571
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:50,560
Speaker 2: The?

1572
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: BULLS rodmin i don't, care whatever? What's up embrace.

1573
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 2: The.

1574
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 3: Day people you.

1575
01:08:55,320 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 4: Could stay, every DAY and i ye happy.

1576
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: Every minute.

1577
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 4: It's been so long that you're, THE one.

1578
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 3: A way before it's, happened already it's gonna be grivy