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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Kind of mixed open

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Speaker 1: here for the first forty five minutes or so of

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Speaker 1: trading here, looks like folks are kind of waiting on

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Speaker 1: some of the big echo data. It's gonna get a

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Speaker 1: little sense of kind of how this market's performing, how

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Speaker 1: it may discount some of this echo data we will

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Speaker 1: get this week, most notably CPI Data as well's pp

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Speaker 1: I as well. Cameron christ macro strategists for Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: and Gina Martin Adams, chief equity strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 1: They both join us here. We're gonna round table this thing.

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Speaker 1: I want to record this. Yeah, I think we do

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Speaker 1: that on a daily basis. Then we pot it as

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Speaker 1: kids say, all right, Cameron, um, we got a lot

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Speaker 1: of eco data here today. What are you going to

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Speaker 1: be looking for? What do you think I guess more importantly,

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Speaker 1: what do you think your federal Reserve is gonna be

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Speaker 1: looking for? Well, obviously the CPI is the highlight of

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Speaker 1: the of the week. Uh. Yeah, they made it pretty

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Speaker 1: clear that they need to see more than one or

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Speaker 1: two friendly prints to switch switch course. Um, but last

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Speaker 1: month wouldn't even get a friendly print. So uh, it

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Speaker 1: would be the first step on a on the journey.

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Speaker 1: Could be the sort of the beginning of the end

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Speaker 1: of the cycle if we start to see some significant

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Speaker 1: downside prints and cp I. But as this year has

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Speaker 1: taught us, it is very, very costly to try to

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Speaker 1: preempt that. So, Gina, what does an investor do here?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Um, it seems like every data point out

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Speaker 1: backs up the Fed actually doing what they say, which

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Speaker 1: is shocking to the markets. And then, um, it turns

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Speaker 1: out when we get a drop in inflation, at least

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Speaker 1: according to UM a bunch of research on the street,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be horrible for earnings. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: that remains to be seen for a start. UM, inflation

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Speaker 1: is usually a lagging indicator of growth. Inflation has been

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Speaker 1: in a bizarre position this year relative to the past

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Speaker 1: twenty years, so any forecasters that really have a strong

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Speaker 1: sense of of what inflation is doing probably would would

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Speaker 1: use a model that is not accurately going to forecast

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Speaker 1: the reality over the next couple of quarters. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the sort of the reality of the earning stream

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Speaker 1: is that inflation has been a big pain point for earnings.

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Speaker 1: Revenues have been growing, but margins have been contracting amid

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Speaker 1: the rising input cost pressure, even though companies have been

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Speaker 1: able to pass on some price increases. So we might

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Speaker 1: be somewhat surprised by the degree to which to drop

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Speaker 1: an inflation can actually soothe some of those margin pressure

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Speaker 1: margin pressures going forward. And frankly, that is not what's

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Speaker 1: happened for the last twenty years. What's happened for the

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Speaker 1: last twenty years is company earnings weakness does not come

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Speaker 1: about because inflation is too fast. It comes out about

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Speaker 1: because we see a demand demand drop, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I think that we've got this really mass confusion going

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Speaker 1: on with respect to the earning stream. Um Also, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the earning strength has come from energy. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: energy is very tied not just to inflation, the inflation

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Speaker 1: out but look, but what's happening with the input price, right,

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Speaker 1: and our oil prices actually falling. Now are input prices

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Speaker 1: actually falling in the energy space is a big question

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Speaker 1: mark for the outlook. So I would characterize the current

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Speaker 1: outlook is sort of earnings confusion. Um that earnings confusion

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Speaker 1: probably persists into the next quarter, but companies can do

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Speaker 1: a lot to clear up that earning's confusion, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we'll be looking for in the upcoming earning season.

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Speaker 1: I mean, today, for example, UBS said forward profit will

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Speaker 1: drop fifty this year. That sounds less like confusion and

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Speaker 1: just like a huge loss, right, Yeah, Well, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: we would be remiss not to note that what's been

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Speaker 1: happening in the auto space has also been completely contrary

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Speaker 1: to historical experience over a cycle. We can't get cars.

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Speaker 1: Cars aren't coming into the United States. They're going to

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Speaker 1: start coming into the United States at a point in

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Speaker 1: time where interest rates are increasing. This is just completely

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Speaker 1: bizarre and a bizarre experience in the earning stream. So

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Speaker 1: do you really want to take a forward example as

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Speaker 1: indicative of what's going to happen for tech companies, healthcare companies,

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Speaker 1: consumer companies at large. I mean, I think this is

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Speaker 1: what I mean by inflation, By inflation and earnings confusion.

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Speaker 1: This is a very very difficult point to take any

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Speaker 1: individual companies as a representative of what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: for the market at large, and that's been the case

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Speaker 1: for much of two all right, well, how about let's

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Speaker 1: take Mike Wilson's point on you know, he says, when

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Speaker 1: inflation comes down, um, the parts that are going to

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Speaker 1: remain resilient our shelter, wages and some services, and then

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Speaker 1: goods will con any decelery. And that's not a constructive

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Speaker 1: picture for the sp It's definitely not a constructive picture

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Speaker 1: for the goods centric industries within the SNP five completely

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Speaker 1: agree with that scenario. Did centric consumer companies generally indicative

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Speaker 1: of what's going to happen at the market at large?

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Speaker 1: Is my point of contention with that piece. Hey, Cameron, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the issue is do we have

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Speaker 1: a risk material risk this week of being like really

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Speaker 1: negatively surprised the inflation comes in really hot? Of course,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would say that any analysis is looking

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Speaker 1: at the last twenty or thirty years of inflation what

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Speaker 1: it means for earnings isn't particularly useful because this is

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Speaker 1: a completely different inflation regime, um than than we've had, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, central bankers Allen Greenspan kind of defined price

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Speaker 1: stability is that level of inflation that doesn't materially impact

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Speaker 1: the decisions of consumers and businesses in the economy. And

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Speaker 1: that's more or less been the case, um from the

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Speaker 1: late eighties, uh really through until last year. UM. So

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Speaker 1: this is a very different scenario to what we've experienced

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, uh and the naughties and and the

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Speaker 1: teams on the one hand and on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: referencing demand, I mean, the fact stated intention is to

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Speaker 1: reduce demand, to break it in the supply um. I

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Speaker 1: mean they haven't. They couldn't be any more clear on

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to accomplish. Is that in the Is

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Speaker 1: that in the price of the stock market? I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's really really debatable. Certainly it is not embedded

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Speaker 1: in the level of earnings expectations. I think over the

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Speaker 1: next over the next few years, and if you look

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Speaker 1: at market valuations based on the on the present value

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Speaker 1: of those future earnings expectations, the market is not cheap,

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Speaker 1: all right. Camera great stuff camera christ Macro strategist, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News Gina Martin Adams, Bloomberg intelligence equity strategist. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Let's get over right now to Chris Beal's he's the

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Speaker 1: CEO of weed Maps. It's nasdack listed. The ticker is

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Speaker 1: m A p S. And to me this seems like

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Speaker 1: a growth story. Chris. We just got you know, legal

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Speaker 1: weed starting to sell around New York. Um, not entirely

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Speaker 1: legally yet, but I guess people will use your app

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Speaker 1: to find a place where they can uh safely and

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Speaker 1: securely buy weed and um, you know, get reliable quality.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that the case? Yeah? Well, actually one

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Speaker 1: step further, it's sort of what we provide is sort

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Speaker 1: of like Amazon or door Dash for cannabis. So it

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Speaker 1: let's retailers and brands showcase their products and enable online ordering,

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Speaker 1: and then we have a bunch of software that helps

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Speaker 1: them do delivery, post order follow ups, CRM, that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. But yeah, the idea is to take something

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Speaker 1: that's traditionally been scary, hard to understand and make it

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Speaker 1: easy to shop for consumer is online. So you know

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Speaker 1: how many states are you active in? Can you get

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Speaker 1: delivery service? I mean, delivery service has been the only

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Speaker 1: way to get weed in New York for like thirty years,

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Speaker 1: but can you actually get legal delivery service now here? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so when in this varies from state to state. Some

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Speaker 1: states only allow in store pick up that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: but in New York they will allow delivery. So you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to order on weed maps, on the app

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Speaker 1: on your phone, put stuff in a cart. You will

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Speaker 1: be able to or you are able to. You will

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Speaker 1: be able to win adult use open So right now,

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Speaker 1: it's just medical so you could right now just for

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Speaker 1: medical shops if you have a medical card. But when

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Speaker 1: adult use, these disposies that can sell you know, for

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Speaker 1: basically recreational open up. You'll be able to get order

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Speaker 1: on the phone and get delivery right to your door. Chris,

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Speaker 1: are you active in states that have been open for

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Speaker 1: recreational cannabis like Colorado for example, And if so, kind

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Speaker 1: of what's your experience been. Yeah, So, so we're ubiquitous.

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Speaker 1: We're in all thirty seven states that have cannabis legalization.

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Speaker 1: We're actually a fourteen year old company. Were started out

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Speaker 1: in California, and we're we operate internationally and seven international

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Speaker 1: jurisdictions at this point as well. So yeah, we're in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, Colorado has very limited delivery. Despite what people

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Speaker 1: might think, they're really kind of just rolling out pilots

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Speaker 1: for it um. But we see we operate in all

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Speaker 1: these different states, and we see very big differences in

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Speaker 1: how the businesses operate, and our software has to deal

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Speaker 1: with the different rules and compliance regulations um. And then

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Speaker 1: the way consumer shop varies a lot. I think New

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Speaker 1: York will be very similar in terms of consumers shopping

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Speaker 1: habits to California, which makes sense because New York has

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Speaker 1: been buying California cannabis for the last thirty years. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean my experience is when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: you know what we You'd have a delivery guy come

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Speaker 1: and meet you, come to your door, you'd get in

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Speaker 1: his car, whatever. But now that these dispensries are opening up,

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Speaker 1: it's too much fun to go there. Why would I

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Speaker 1: want to get delivery? It's going to Empire is like

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Speaker 1: going to the Dylan's candy store of weed? Um. Is

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Speaker 1: that gonna wear off? Am I gonna get tired of

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Speaker 1: that and want to go for delivery later on? Well?

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Speaker 1: So the thing is is avengeal for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people when they become regular cannabis consumers. And look, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of that people who are substituting cannabis

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Speaker 1: for alcohol as a healthier alternative. You know what you

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Speaker 1: want or you want to you don't want to go

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Speaker 1: through the hassle and going to the dispensary and a

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Speaker 1: dispensaries the lines can be long, and it can be

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Speaker 1: you know, a bit confusing. But the other big use

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Speaker 1: case we're seeing in mature states, the average cannabis dispensary

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Speaker 1: has over a thousands skews, and so we see a

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Speaker 1: lot of people pulling out weed maps when they're in

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Speaker 1: the store just to go through and understand what are

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Speaker 1: all these different products? Because you know, to go from

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Speaker 1: that that guy saying, hey, come get in my car,

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Speaker 1: he only has what he can carry in his backpack

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Speaker 1: to a dispensary, you got over a thousand different things.

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Speaker 1: And you look at segments like uh concentrates and all

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Speaker 1: these new types of concentrates. Look at edibles, there's a

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Speaker 1: huge growth in the beverage segment. How do you as

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Speaker 1: a consumer makes sense of all of that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times the dispensary doesn't even fully

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Speaker 1: understand everything because the brand explosion is just in the

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Speaker 1: early innings right now, and it's accelerating. By the way,

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Speaker 1: do you have a team of people reviewing these products

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Speaker 1: or do you rely on you know, written in reviews

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Speaker 1: from consumers. So what we do is we rely on

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Speaker 1: written in reviews from verified purchasers. So people who have

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Speaker 1: it's it's I have to be careful. I say this

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Speaker 1: because Amazon, the Amazon review systems fallen under a lot

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Speaker 1: of I think rightful criticism. But what we do is

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Speaker 1: we look at consumers who have purchased online through weed Maps,

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Speaker 1: through the marketplace, and then say, give us feedback, give

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Speaker 1: us reviews on things like how it clinically affected you,

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Speaker 1: how was your store experience, how is the delivery experience,

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Speaker 1: and there's other things we can do. We do have

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Speaker 1: a content and learning part of the site to learn

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Speaker 1: about strains, to learn about new products, where we do

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Speaker 1: have expert reviewers in common taters and we can pull

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Speaker 1: some of that across. The other thing is um A

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Speaker 1: lot of what we do is we have one of

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Speaker 1: the largest brand catalogs out there. So many times the

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Speaker 1: brands will write, they'll provide the images, they'll provide the

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Speaker 1: descriptions and more than that the ascribed clinical effects, and

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Speaker 1: then we syndicate that through all the retailers who carry

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Speaker 1: those branded products. Chris, As far as the stock, what

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Speaker 1: is going on. You're trading for less than sales, you know,

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Speaker 1: three times earnings right now, These are not numbers that

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Speaker 1: we typically see, even for companies that are distressed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and on top of that, we've been profitable for essentially

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Speaker 1: our entire history. Uh. We were effectively bootstrapped until we

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Speaker 1: went public. Uh. You know, look, I think what you

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Speaker 1: see it's it's frustrating to me. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: one of those reminders of as a CEO, you have

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Speaker 1: to control what you can control, which is us growing

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Speaker 1: adoption of the marketplace and that. But I think partially

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Speaker 1: what you're seeing is a reflection of stigma. There's still

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Speaker 1: a lot of institutional investors who won't invest in the sector,

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Speaker 1: even for a NASDAQ listed UH technology and sillery provider

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Speaker 1: like maps UH. And I think you know at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day that the market is a factor

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Speaker 1: of supply and demand, and on the demand side, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's just far too many funds who are reluctant to

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Speaker 1: invest in the cannabis spector despite the fact that some

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Speaker 1: people estimate that's going to be a hundred billion dollar

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Speaker 1: industry at the end of this decade UM. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we're out there trying to educate people, make them understand

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Speaker 1: that there's very deep modes around this business in terms

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Speaker 1: of the regulatory requirements, the data science you have to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're solving problems that Frankly, Go Puff and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other online market places haven't solved because

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Speaker 1: we need to we Yeah, we can't touch the actual

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Speaker 1: cannabis product or do we ever want to. So, but

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Speaker 1: we had President Biden recently kind of you know, say,

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Speaker 1: you know he's gonna expunge federal marijuana convictions. I mean

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Speaker 1: that had to be a step in the right direction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks I think there's a lot of twists and

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Speaker 1: turns to that because I think it is potentially less

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Speaker 1: impactful than people think on the part in side, because

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Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of federal prisoners who are under

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Speaker 1: federal custody for simple possession. A lot of its trafficking,

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Speaker 1: or they'll attack on other charges to get a plea.

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Speaker 1: But the promise to reschedule if they follow through on

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Speaker 1: that could meaningfully change things. Um, you know, when we've

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Speaker 1: tried to sponsor scientific research on cannabis, those researchers have

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Speaker 1: in some cases gotten threats to have their National Science

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Speaker 1: Foundation or in i H grants funding polled because they're

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Speaker 1: doing cannabis research. So the rescheduling would help there. But

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Speaker 1: but the biggest thing that I think people are missing

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Speaker 1: is it's a stigma reduction. When you look at why

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Speaker 1: funds aren't investing in cannabis names, it's not because they can't.

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Speaker 1: It's a stigma thing. When you look at why major

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Speaker 1: credit card providers don't bank or don't provide credit for

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Speaker 1: financial side, it's that all right. Chris great stuff, Chris

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Speaker 1: Bal's CEO of Weed Maps on the cannabis business. One

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Speaker 1: talk technology, you here, and I'm gonna talk us China

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Speaker 1: supply chain is But we found out the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic that it is not good to be overreliant

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Speaker 1: on one source of stuff. And like we saw it

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Speaker 1: into technology space with chips and so woulgin Hoe, which

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Speaker 1: by the way, is my favorite name on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: Wuginhoe is a senior technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's

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Speaker 1: got a research report out entitled Untangling US China tech

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Speaker 1: supply chain issues. He says it's difficult but doable. Wulgin,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. Talk to us

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Speaker 1: about kind of what we've learned over the last two

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Speaker 1: and a half three years about that supply chain reliance

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Speaker 1: on China and maybe how some of the technology companies

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Speaker 1: are trying to untangle that right now. Thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me on, Paul so Um. It's it's clear over the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years that China is a main supplier

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Speaker 1: not only for for chips, but more importantly electronics manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: If in our research support that I worked with our

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Speaker 1: Asia UH Boomberg Tmt colleagues, is that roughly of all

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Speaker 1: of the electronics manufacturing source of of China. And it

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Speaker 1: kind of makes sense right over the years manufacturing shifted

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Speaker 1: over from US and Mexico and it and moved over

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Speaker 1: to China because of economies of scales, because what we

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Speaker 1: are fair and focused on margin and trying to unentangle

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Speaker 1: that is going to be uh quite a task. We

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Speaker 1: also have Brendon Murray with us. Uh he is the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg trades are out of Atlanta? Is that right in Lanta? Brendon.

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Speaker 1: I'm in London. Oh in London, sorry, um, uh in London, Brendon,

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Speaker 1: What do we know about um President Biden right now?

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Speaker 1: And the rules on chip makers? Are the rules on

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Speaker 1: technological access by companies in China? Yeah, Well, what we

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Speaker 1: know right now is that that pre President Biden is

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Speaker 1: trying to make some of those decisions for uh, for

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Speaker 1: for industry rather than uh, you know, basically to try

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Speaker 1: to make it more difficult for for China to produce

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Speaker 1: its chips and easier for Eric companies to get these

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Speaker 1: semiconductors that you know, going just about you know, every

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Speaker 1: household appliance that we buy. So that's that's the administration

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Speaker 1: stance right now. It's it's you know, some of it's

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Speaker 1: borrowed from the Trump administration to uh, you know, try

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Speaker 1: to sort of create our own industries here that you know,

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Speaker 1: many of them migrated away. So so the tech supply

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Speaker 1: chains you know, are definitely well embedded in China and

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Speaker 1: elsewhere in Asia, but they can they can make some

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Speaker 1: progress on them with government incentives and and uh and

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Speaker 1: and penalties um, you know against Chinese producers. But what

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Speaker 1: is this? First of all, I thought you were I

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Speaker 1: mistakenly thought you were in Atlanta because you used to

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Speaker 1: write for the Atlanta Business Chronicle, So that was I

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Speaker 1: guess a while back. But what does this mean for

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Speaker 1: the chip industry in China? I mean, is this a

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Speaker 1: huge blow? Um? You know, will it whither away or

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Speaker 1: is it still going to be I mean, I assume

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Speaker 1: it's the main place that chips are made globally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think judging by the market reaction in

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Speaker 1: China today to the news from the US on Friday

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Speaker 1: through the weekend, you know, investors do expect it to

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Speaker 1: be uh, you know, to to to you know, to

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Speaker 1: to to cause some cause some problems for the Chinese producers. Hey,

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Speaker 1: would you know I think you know, at some point

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Speaker 1: during this pandemic, when this this issue, the supply chain

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Speaker 1: issues relates to chips became you know, really prevalent, everybody

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Speaker 1: was just saying, well, just let's onshore this stuff. And

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Speaker 1: there's been some announcements in the great state of Ohio,

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Speaker 1: in the state of New York about maybe bringing some

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Speaker 1: of these fabs onshore. Is that really a thing, Is

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Speaker 1: that a solution or is that just more kind of

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Speaker 1: rhetoric and politics? Well, UM. Well, the Biding administration is

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Speaker 1: actually putting their money where the mouth is, right, the

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Speaker 1: fifty two billion doll the Chips Act is supposed to

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Speaker 1: help UM initiate an investment into UH some of these

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Speaker 1: facts and manufacture these UM advanced technology chips. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: so they are trying to onshore some of that to

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Speaker 1: to lessen the reliance. Now, now, you know, just just

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Speaker 1: to pick it back on on Brandon's point that the

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Speaker 1: one thing I will say is that they're trying to

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Speaker 1: what the US is trying to do with some of

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Speaker 1: the I guess renewed UM sanctions on China is to

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Speaker 1: slow down the manufacture of advanced ships. Now, now the

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Speaker 1: one China doesn't really make many advanced ships. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's mostly Taiwan and and if anything, is UM the

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Speaker 1: US trying to mitigate the reliance on UM on Taiwan

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Speaker 1: on some of these advanced ships because of the geo politics. UM.

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Speaker 1: These are two issues, well, the supply chain and chips

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Speaker 1: are two issues that have become conflated and intertwined over

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Speaker 1: the crisis. But UM, we should keep them separate. I

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Speaker 1: guess right, Brendan, Because you have a great, big story

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Speaker 1: out in the Bloomberg today showing that we could see

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Speaker 1: the supply chain returning to some sense of normalcy. And

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Speaker 1: throughout the story you talk about the reduction in weight

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Speaker 1: times that ships have outside of harbors. Yeah, we definitely

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Speaker 1: need to make a distinction between tech supply chains and

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Speaker 1: normal supply chains. You know that they are they are

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Speaker 1: inter linked to some extent, but but tech supply chains

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Speaker 1: are very you know, very complex and and and difficult

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Speaker 1: to replicate in other countries. But but for other things,

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Speaker 1: more basic sort of lower value goods or you know,

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Speaker 1: textiles or things that don't require you know, lots of

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Speaker 1: you know, complicated machinery or engineering can be can be

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Speaker 1: produced and are being produced and have been shifting out

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Speaker 1: of China for you know, many years, even before the

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Speaker 1: pandemic and the US Trade Board with with with China,

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Speaker 1: So so that shift has been ongoing and and and

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing now is, uh, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: set the tech supply chain aside for a second, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing the demand cooling around around Europe and the US

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Speaker 1: in particular. So so we're seeing a lot of that

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Speaker 1: congestion that we saw. You know that most of US

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Speaker 1: is sort of transportation related as opposed to production related.

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Speaker 1: So some of that is freeing up just because there's

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Speaker 1: there's demand that's coming off. You know, the peak, the

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Speaker 1: peak levels that it is seen over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of years. All right, Brendan, great stuff, Really appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: You're taking a time. Brendan Murray Trades are for Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News based in London, and Bloomberg News is all over

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Speaker 1: this global supply chain issue, as is Bloomberg Intelligence Investment

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Speaker 1: Research Wujinho technology analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence. They have a big,

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Speaker 1: big report out on the terminal bond market, closed equity

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Speaker 1: market open. Who's in charge out there? I mean, somebody's

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Speaker 1: got to get it together. Here, let's continue our discussion

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Speaker 1: of technology. It's time we're keep our focus on the

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Speaker 1: chip business, um because a lot of industries penned upon

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Speaker 1: the chip business. You didn't think so until we had

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Speaker 1: this pandemic. Then you're like, oh yeah, chips are and everything.

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Speaker 1: Men Deep Seeing, senior technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence joins

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Speaker 1: us here in a Bloomberg Interactive broker studio and we

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Speaker 1: talked about chips. We always like to talk about the

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Speaker 1: auto industry because Matt truck was stuck in somewhere in

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Speaker 1: Mexico because you couldn't get enough chips for I don't

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Speaker 1: know what, the electric windows not because of that, probably

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Speaker 1: some other reasons. But Kevin Tyning, he's got all the

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Speaker 1: answers when it comes to the auto business, senior automotive

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Speaker 1: analysts with Bloomberg Intelligence. So, man, deep, I'm looking again

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Speaker 1: the Philly Semiconductor Index, the socks. It's down again today,

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Speaker 1: the lowest since October. What's going on in the chip business?

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Speaker 1: I thought we needed these things well. Of what happened

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Speaker 1: last week was m D pre announced and they said

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Speaker 1: their client segment revenue will be half of what they

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Speaker 1: expected back in August, So not a lot of time

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Speaker 1: had passed from their prior guidance, and within two months

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Speaker 1: they come out and say it will be a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars lower and most likely that will be the case

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Speaker 1: for the fourth quarter as well, So not just one

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Speaker 1: billion lowerd for the year, but two billion. And so

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Speaker 1: what that translates into is, you know, pieces shipments being

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Speaker 1: down almost fifty sixty million, but PCs, I mean, who

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Speaker 1: uses a PC anymore? What? What is this? Is it? Motorola?

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Speaker 1: Is it a Nokia PC and come on, give me

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Speaker 1: a break. Chips are used in electric vehicles and cellular

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Speaker 1: telephones other than Nokia. Um, you know, they're used in

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Speaker 1: a million other products besides personal computers. I'm not running DOSS.

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Speaker 1: I don't care about PCs. So well, these businesses are

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Speaker 1: much more diversified now than they were five years back.

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00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: And so m D does have a data center business,

431
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: they have gaming business. Gaming is going down as well,

432
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: so data center is what is holding off Fell. But

433
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: guess what when everything is going down, the cloud guys,

434
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: the hyper skillers are gonna say, okay, why are we

435
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: spending thirty billion dollars on capex, you know, setting up

436
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: these new servers when the overall demand is going down.

437
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: So eventually they'll pair back as well, and that's why

438
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: you see such violence stock reaction. All right, Kevin Tynan,

439
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: you've been whining, Matt's been winding, all the gearheads have

440
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: been whining that they can't get their vehicles because there's

441
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: not enough chips out there. What are the good folks

442
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: in Detroit telling you? Yeah, I mean, I'm more of

443
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: the opinion and this is just my opinion that look,

444
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: this is the the constrained output by the manufacturers is

445
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more orchestrated than people like to think.

446
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: And it's not that there isn't a chip shortage. I

447
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: just think that our at least our domestic manufacturers are

448
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: managing it such that it's enabling them to move up

449
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: market basically in every you know, vehicle architecture they can.

450
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: So there's not a chip shortage. According to m D

451
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: there's not. They wish there was a chip shortage, right

452
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: specific pockets there is. So for autos there is still

453
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: a shortage. But for PCs, well, which one is is

454
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: autos the pocket and PCs is like the whole enchilada,

455
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: or is PCs a pocket? Autos is much smaller. Are

456
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: you hearing from Detroit and from the other companies that

457
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: they can in fact get the chips. Well, here's the thing, right,

458
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: I can get the chips I need for the expensive

459
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: vehicles that have all the margin for me, right, and

460
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: I can build those. But those darn things that you

461
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: know I can sell for eighteen thousand dollars that I

462
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: lose money on, I can't find enough chips for those.

463
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: And then this is what you get is that you know,

464
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: everybody talking about affordability and that automakers are missing out

465
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: because they're going to have an affordability crisis. And I'm

466
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: saying they're making the affordability crisis. This is exactly where

467
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: they want to be. They they want to be selling

468
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: you sixty five tho dollar pickup trucks instead of eighteen

469
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: thousand dollar small coops and sedans. So you know, the

470
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: idea that that the automakers will produce more if there

471
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: were more chips, I think is I think it's wrong.

472
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: I think this is where they want production going to

473
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 1: be relative to demand, keep it in balance. Where they

474
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: don't want it to take a year to get your

475
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: sixty pickup truck. They don't want you to wait two

476
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: years to get your Bronco. Right. But if but if

477
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: you do have to wait and you're gonna pay over sticker,

478
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: then we'll take that trade, I guess for a time being.

479
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is these are two different conversations.

480
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: I mean no offense to Eric, but man Deep and

481
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: Kevin no I shouldn't necessarily be round table because Kevin

482
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: is worried about at least automakers saying there aren't enough chips,

483
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: and man Deep is talking about the company's he covers,

484
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: saying like we're swimming in chips, as chips are in everything,

485
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't even care about a chip until now,

486
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm looking at looking under every hood, every nook

487
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: and cranny, deceive there's a microchip hiding there. Man, deep

488
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: are they ever gonna is this? You know, in the

489
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: great state of Ohio, in the state of New York

490
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: they're talking about building fabs. Is that what you guys

491
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: call them, Like the manufacturing plans for making these chips,

492
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: is that it really going to be a thing that

493
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: can move the needle? It will and these require you know, planning,

494
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: So by the time you know the Ohio fabs come online,

495
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: there will be But at the same time, the good

496
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: thing is, you know, at the geopolitical level, you see

497
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: these tensions and you know the direction where things are aheaded.

498
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: So eventually you know there will be a point when

499
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: the US based fabs will have a higher utilization, and

500
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: you know you can do a lot more here because look,

501
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: these are asset intensive businesses and you require the cap expense.

502
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: So it's great that the government is involved now because

503
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: companies can do it on their own. Kevin I just

504
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: literally just twenty seconds here. Uh, is ubs right? Is

505
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: Ford's profits going to get cut in half next year? Well?

506
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: My so my question is where is this you know,

507
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: overproduction coming from. Is it because demand falls through the

508
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: floor or because they think that automakers once there are chips, um,

509
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: they're just gonna accidentally overproduce and it's gonna kill affordability

510
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: and pricing and everything. And I'm saying that's just not

511
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: how it's gonna work, all right. Kevin Tyne and good stuff.

512
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: He covers the auto industry, which is basically a technology

513
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: industry with four wheels. I'm convinced. Uh. And then Man

514
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: Deep saying he is a senior tech analyst covers all

515
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: things technology for Bloomberg Intelligence. He was actually in studio

516
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: today as he is most as gold star for for

517
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: Man Deep. And thanks to Kevin Tyne. Time to go

518
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: with geopolitics right here, we're gonna roundtable this series of stories.

519
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: Dr Ariel Cohen, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council Eurisa Center,

520
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: joins us as well as Roz Matheson. She covers Bloomberg News.

521
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Executive editor for Internet International Government joins us here to

522
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: talk about a whole host of geopolitical issues, and let's

523
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: start with Ukraine because it seems to ratchet it up

524
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: over the weekend and Dr ConA like to start there.

525
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: Just give us your thoughts on kind of how you

526
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: see the situation in Ukraine, maybe the events over the weekend,

527
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: and maybe what's next to come. Okay, So on the

528
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: eighth of October, one day after putting seventeenth birthday, there

529
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: was an explosion on the Kirsch Bridge. That's a bridge

530
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: that connected Crimean peninsula with the mainland. Uh and um

531
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: it disrupted the traffic on the bridge. Most of the

532
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: traffic is repaired now it's a multi media bridge. It

533
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: has UM cars, railroad, electricity and whatnot. Uh So it's

534
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: a strategic supply line for the Russian military in the

535
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: Crimea and in the south of Ukraine, in the Carson region.

536
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: After that UM, the Russian started bombarding Kiev, the capital

537
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: of Ukraine, Kharkiv, the second largest city, and Viv, the

538
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: third largest city, as well as other cities all over Ukraine,

539
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: primarily taking out the energy infrastructure. So we have reports

540
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: of electricity being shut down in the major Ukrainian cities.

541
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: And I don't need to explain to our audience. How

542
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: devastating it is for the civilians. Also a lot of

543
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: these missile hits were against civilian targets. You know, That's

544
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: what I don't get. I don't understand why, you know, um,

545
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: taking out the bridge to um To to block one

546
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 1: place where Russian troops come into the theater makes sense.

547
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: That's a strategic move. Why does Putin then turn around

548
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: and attack civilians as if that bridge was somehow off limits.

549
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: The bridge, of course is not off limits because the

550
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: troops of fuel the AMMA are all going into the

551
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: theater through that bridge. Um. But attacking civilians is the

552
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: last time I checked. It's a war cron and I

553
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: think one of the responses that Biden administration and the

554
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: Europeans need to do now is to start identifying who

555
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: are the war criminals of this war. The Ukrainians are

556
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: doing some of that work, of course, but I think

557
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: this needs to be escalated because these people need to

558
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: understand that as long as this war is continuing, they're

559
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: piling up what may lead to their life uh sentences

560
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: in the hade Ros I want to bring you in.

561
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: Roz Matheson, Executive editor for International Government of Bloomberg News

562
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, ros has been I guess, you know, always

563
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: a concern in the back of folks mind that maybe

564
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: President Putin will get so desperate that the nuclear option

565
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: maybe on the table. What's the latest reporting there? Of course,

566
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: that remains the concern, But he's been threatening that in

567
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: some shape or films since the war began. The question

568
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: is how much is he's back against the war the war,

569
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: and how much does the war continue to go against

570
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: him on the ground, and therefore, what are his options

571
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: really to get any kind of result. I mean, what

572
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: he's had some success in so far is sort of

573
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: sowing a bit of disarray within EU more broadly over

574
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: energy access going into winter, certainly cutting off energy supplies

575
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: two countries um and as we can see within Ukraine

576
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: itself as we're just hearing cutting off electricity supply with

577
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: some of his attacks today. And if you want to

578
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: splinter Europe further and you want to really push them

579
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: on the unity question with Ukraine, do you go so

580
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: far as to use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine to

581
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: sort of see what the response would be, And that

582
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: maybe the question right now, there's no there's no sense

583
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: that he's moving nuclear assets towards that, but certainly he's

584
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: leaving that option open, and that's really putting us in

585
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: quite a dangerous phase. As you can see today from

586
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: the extent of the missile attacks that have gone on

587
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: across Ukraine. He's suffered numerous personal prestige blows. The bridge himself,

588
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: that was something you drive a truck over when it

589
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: was opened, after it was built, So for him it's personal.

590
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: Dr Cohen, what's the likelihood of the Russians using nuclear weapons? Well,

591
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: this is UH sixty four billion dollar question. And I'm

592
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: not talking about the Democratic Party fundraiser at which President

593
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: Biden found it appropriate to discuss this dire and grave topic.

594
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: I think the conversation about whether puts In is using

595
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: tactical nukes or god forbid, it escalates to strategic nuclear exchange.

596
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: We should could should not be done as a part

597
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: of a fundraiser. It should be a serious conversation, probably

598
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: in a speech to the nation by the President. UM.

599
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: I think the chances are all my contacts in Russia,

600
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: outside of Russia in the US government are saying that

601
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: the probability of this is growing. We started UH several

602
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: months ago talking about I was talking about people corrected

603
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: me and said, no, thirty now I think it's over.

604
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: It's quite possible that Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons.

605
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: And the big question is, of course, what's dex Are

606
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: we going to respond, How are we going to respond?

607
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: How Natal allies are going to respond? And this these

608
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: are the uncharted waters. This is more grave and more

609
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: diet than the Cuban missile crisis, in which nuclear weapons

610
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: were not used. And and and how do Russian allies respond?

611
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: I mean Risal And let me ask you, um, how

612
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: has the Russian relationship with China fair throughout this war?

613
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: And you know, if we get there, they have to

614
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: probably reas the Chinese probably have to reassess their their

615
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: support for Putin. We have to imagine that the Chinese

616
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: president is not particularly happy that this is going on,

617
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: or certainly that it's dragged on so long. Right as

618
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: he goes into his own leadership moment in China next

619
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: week where he wants to be reindorsed for a third

620
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: term because he doesn't need this kind of mess occurring,

621
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: does he particularly care about the war in Ukraine. That's

622
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: up for debate. Um, certainly, Um. He has continued to

623
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: do business with Russia. As of other countries, including India

624
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: for example, UM in trading. But China has been pretty

625
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: careful not to step too much into the bounds of sanctions,

626
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: even if they haven't signed up for them. They're being

627
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: pretty careful. UM and he in some ways he and

628
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: Russia do still need each other, um as sort of

629
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: a bulwalk against against the West as we move into

630
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: a really truly multipolar world. UM that there's vested interests

631
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: there is he probably particularly happy with the way that

632
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is conducting this. You would you would think not,

633
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: and he's probably expressed that privately. Will he publicly criticized

634
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: Russia if they test, if they do, if they do

635
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon potentially, But there's still a relationship there,

636
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: all right, So sobering discussion points there. Again, the odds

637
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: of a new from Dr Cohen are much higher than

638
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: I would have thought. Dr Ariel O and senior fellow

639
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Atlantic Council Eurasia Center and Ros Math is an executive

640
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: editor for International Government for Bloomberg News. With again some

641
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: sobering assessments of the situation in Ukraine. Thanks for listening

642
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen

643
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller. Put

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Speaker 1: on fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before

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Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio