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Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsen. Welcome to WIKF Daily with Meet Your

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Speaker 1: Girl Daniel Moody pre recorded from the Home Bunker, Folks.

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Speaker 1: On today's show, we chat again with doctor Rob Davidson,

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Speaker 1: who is an emergency room doctor in Michigan, and we

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Speaker 1: chat with him today with regard to RFK Junior and

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Speaker 1: the potential that a conspiracy theorist, an anti vaxxer, a

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Speaker 1: lunatic could be in charge of public health for over

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty million Americans. And doctor Davidson walks

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Speaker 1: us through all of the ways in which this is

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Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous, reminds us of what happened in Samoa with

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Speaker 1: a measle outbreak that killed over eighty people, largely children,

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Speaker 1: after RFK Junior talked about anti vaccines there and you

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Speaker 1: could literally trace the deaths back to him and is

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Speaker 1: anti vaccine And you know, here we talk about what

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Speaker 1: will it take to restore faith in public health that

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Speaker 1: was broken by Donald Trump during COVID and has yet

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Speaker 1: to recover. What he reminds us is that vaccines helped

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Speaker 1: and has helped millions upon millions of people, whether it

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Speaker 1: be polio, whether it be measles, malaria, and has the

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Speaker 1: potential to eradicate cervical cancer in terms of HPV. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, we are at a time where the

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Speaker 1: lunatics are going to run the asylum and it isn't

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Speaker 1: just about tuning out when their hands are literally going

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Speaker 1: to be everywhere in our water, in our food, in

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Speaker 1: our medicine, and what is that going to mean for

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Speaker 1: our health moving forward? I get into this and more

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Speaker 1: with doctor Rob Davidson, Folks, I am very happy to

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Speaker 1: welcome back to f A doctor Rob Davidson, who is

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Speaker 1: a er doctor in Michigan, East Michigan and the executive

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Speaker 1: director of the Committee to Protect Healthcare. Doctor Davidson, you

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Speaker 1: joined us a couple of weeks back when we still

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Speaker 1: had hope. How about three years three weeks ago and

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Speaker 1: a lot has happened, And now we are in the

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Speaker 1: throes of Donald Trump's second regime taking shape. And one

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Speaker 1: of the most troubling I mean, they're all troubling, but

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Speaker 1: one of the most troubling picks that I have seen

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Speaker 1: thus far for his cabinet is that of RFK Junior

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Speaker 1: to head up HHS. RFK Junior has been known for

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Speaker 1: his wild conspiracy theories, has been known to believe that

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Speaker 1: fluoride in water causes autism and all sorts of odd things.

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Speaker 1: Just recently, I think what has been released this week

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Speaker 1: is that heroin has helped him become a better student

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Speaker 1: and retain more information. Walk us through how in jeopardy

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Speaker 1: our public health is with this incoming administration.

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Speaker 2: First, thanks again, it's good to talk with you again

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Speaker 2: after three weeks and a lot hasn't back happened? Boy,

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Speaker 2: I think with this incoming administration, what we've seen is

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Speaker 2: there they It feels like he and they exist more

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Speaker 2: to kind of shock the system than they do to

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Speaker 2: actually provide benefit to people. To whoever voted for him

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Speaker 2: and why they voted for him. People are figuring that

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Speaker 2: out right exactly which groups and which people and why

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Speaker 2: they did. But no matter what, people who vote for

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Speaker 2: whomever they vote for are doing it because they think

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Speaker 2: that person being in that particular office are going to

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Speaker 2: somehow benefit the lives of themselves, their families, their community,

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Speaker 2: their country, what have you. And so in picking someone

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Speaker 2: like our Ka Junior, and you know, the conspiracy theories

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Speaker 2: are concerned his anti vaccine views, his record of going

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Speaker 2: into Samoa in twenty eighteen promoting anti Vat's views against

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Speaker 2: MMR and then seeing an outbreak of measles happen in

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Speaker 2: that small island, killing eighty three people, mostly children, making

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Speaker 2: four thousand people very sick. Yeah, and you can draw

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Speaker 2: a direct line to OURFK Junior and his organization promoting that.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you have someone like that coming in,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the picks are concerning. And you said

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Speaker 2: it right, that's true. As a physician and as someone

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Speaker 2: who leads a physician organization who are advocating for our patients,

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Speaker 2: this is the one that we care about a lot,

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Speaker 2: you know, both personally professionally, and feel like we can

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Speaker 2: speak to with some degree of authority and have an

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Speaker 2: impact on keeping this guy out of there. I think

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Speaker 2: we turned back the clock right before science, right before

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Speaker 2: we believed in basic science. And you know, the history

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Speaker 2: of healthcare in the world is certainly this country. As

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Speaker 2: we learn new information, we change how we practice. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are things that I learned in medical school that

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Speaker 2: are absolutely proven to be not true today. There are

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Speaker 2: things that I do and that I've learned today that

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Speaker 2: I'm sure in twenty thirty years we'll look back and

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Speaker 2: say why we were a little off, you know, hopefully

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Speaker 2: not a lot off, but certainly off in those views.

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Speaker 2: Before vaccines, people died of measles. Right before vaccines, I

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Speaker 2: think prevented ten million cases of paralysis with the polio vaccine.

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Speaker 2: Before polio vaccine, kids were in iron lungs because their

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Speaker 2: diaphragms were paralyzed and they couldn't breathe. You know, before vaccines,

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Speaker 2: there were entire strains of meningitis that people who taught

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Speaker 2: me in the nineties talked about that because of the

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Speaker 2: specific vaccine hib hemophlos influenza in the eighties, we got

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Speaker 2: rid of it. I've never seen it, and we are

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Speaker 2: so grateful for that reality. Right, particularly children, but and adults.

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Speaker 2: Right because of vaccines, we could eliminate cervical cancer and women.

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Speaker 2: Right the HPV vaccine, if we had wide uptake, we

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Speaker 2: could totally eliminate a form of cancer. Like it's you've

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Speaker 2: never even imagined this kind of stuff thirty years ago,

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Speaker 2: forty years ago, but it's true. And we got a

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Speaker 2: guy coming in who wants to turn back to clock,

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Speaker 2: you know, to the fifties and sixties and make us

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Speaker 2: all in our communities to deal with these diseases and

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Speaker 2: see people die from them unnecessarily, But as as physicians

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Speaker 2: and clinicians watch people suffer when we know it could

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Speaker 2: have been different, it's terrifying.

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to take us back to COVID

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Speaker 1: for a moment when Donald Trump was in office the

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Speaker 1: first time and the global health pandemic hits, and that

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Speaker 1: is when his administration put public health on trial. And

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Speaker 1: instead of using his platform to urge people in the

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Speaker 1: United States to wear a mask, to urge people to

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Speaker 1: wash your hands and do basic things, as scientists and

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Speaker 1: doctors and researchers, we're trying to figure out what is

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Speaker 1: this thing? What is COVID, how is it spreading? How

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Speaker 1: is it harming so many people? We watched them turn

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Speaker 1: the field of medicine and health into a political hot potato,

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Speaker 1: so much so that post the spikes of COVID that

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Speaker 1: we had experienced over the last four years, that we

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Speaker 1: have seen vaccine use be depressed, not just for COVID

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Speaker 1: but overall vaccine. So, as you were watching doctor Davidson

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Speaker 1: that unfold over his term, did you think that he

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Speaker 1: was planting the seeds for what would then blossom dangerously

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Speaker 1: across this country? Did you think that a Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: presidency and administration was going to be able to kind

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Speaker 1: of right size our perception and our understanding of public health.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think the danger and sort of the

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Speaker 2: culture personality surrounding Trump is a certain group of people,

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Speaker 2: whatever that percent is, forty thirty percent, some number of

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Speaker 2: people in this country will just take what he says

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Speaker 2: and believe it and bring it in believe it and

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Speaker 2: nothing else could ever be true despite any fact that

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Speaker 2: was presented. That's I mean, that's tough, right, how do

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Speaker 2: you go against that? But then, particularly with COVID, even

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Speaker 2: people who maybe weren't on board with Trump and a

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Speaker 2: lot of the things he was doing, thought he was unfit,

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Speaker 2: you know, concerned about a lot of aspects. They were

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Speaker 2: said of COVID. Right, COVID was disruptive to people's lives,

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Speaker 2: to our kids education, to people's work lives, to people's

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Speaker 2: ability to earn money, COVID taking lives of family members.

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Speaker 2: People were just at some point just over it. Now,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to prove a counter narrative, But had someone

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Speaker 2: other than Trump and President COVID almost certainly wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been as bad. The economy almost certainly wouldn't have been

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Speaker 2: as bad. I mean, he screwed up in epic proportions,

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Speaker 2: and part of his lack of response and his pushing

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Speaker 2: back against masking his massive rallies during the summer and

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Speaker 2: fall of twenty twenty, when COVID was just a running rampant,

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Speaker 2: getting more people sick, causing deaths. Right. I mean, Herman

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Speaker 2: Kane died after going to I think it was in Oklahoma,

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Speaker 2: going to a rally of his he got COVID and died.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Chris Christy recounts that Trump gave him COVID

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Speaker 2: when they're doing debate prep before he went into a

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Speaker 2: debate with a seventy seven year old former vice president

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Speaker 2: who was his opponent with COVID and didn't tell anyone,

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Speaker 2: and he almost he killed Chris Christie, right, some guy

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Speaker 2: who was previously supporting him. That happened, you know, over

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Speaker 2: and over and over at these big rallies, this disease spreading.

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Speaker 2: But the reality is the big majority of people who

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Speaker 2: maybe weren't on board with Trump overall, were just sick

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Speaker 2: of COVID, and so if they found something or someone

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Speaker 2: out there who could give them information to say that

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Speaker 2: they weren't a bad person for all gathering in groups

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Speaker 2: with their friends and family, right or for opening their

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Speaker 2: business because they simply needed to be able to earn

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Speaker 2: a living. And they found that in Trump, or in

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior, or in doctor Oz or any of these

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Speaker 2: other people that he's putting into the public health apparatus.

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Speaker 2: People clung to that, right. They were looking for someone

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Speaker 2: to tell them, you really don't need to stay away

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Speaker 2: from people. You really can get together at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Don't You'll be fine this it's the flu, it's the cold,

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Speaker 2: it's no big deal. None of that was true, but

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Speaker 2: they wanted to hear it. They were ready to hear it.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is to me, the irreparable damage

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Speaker 2: that has been done is that those people kind of

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Speaker 2: got into those places. Then that began the distrust of

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Speaker 2: the system in general, and it primed a whole new

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Speaker 2: group of people for believing a sort of anti science

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Speaker 2: views of someone like our a junior that's going to

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Speaker 2: take a long time to sex right talking about it

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Speaker 2: with someone like you here, and this podcast is part

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Speaker 2: of it. Like people like me trying to go everywhere

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Speaker 2: we can to talk about to highlight the problem and

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Speaker 2: to reinforce the importance of science and fact based practice

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Speaker 2: of HealthShare and public health. I think that's how we

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Speaker 2: claw our way back.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I've seen recently,

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Speaker 1: and I know that obviously you have seen all of

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Speaker 1: the headlines of mass exodus of doctors leaving Red states,

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Speaker 1: largely around abortion, but fleeing and turning certain states, these

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Speaker 1: red states into health deserts. And I'm wondering, as again

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Speaker 1: this administration takes is it going to be possible do

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Speaker 1: you think for blue state governors to be able to

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Speaker 1: keep their constituents safe, Like if you have all of

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Speaker 1: these doctors that are leaving. Leaving is largely an economic

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Speaker 1: privilege when people are able to afford to be able

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Speaker 1: to leave. And these doctors are doing so because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to go to jail.

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Speaker 2: Even besides that, they don't want to practice an environment

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Speaker 2: where they know they know what to do medically, but

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Speaker 2: they're not allowed to do that, even not with that,

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Speaker 2: even with vaccines, with other aspects of healthcare practicing in environments.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I practice in a state where Medicaid has

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Speaker 2: been expanded under the ACA, but there are still ten

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Speaker 2: states that happen, and that, to me, would be really

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Speaker 2: hard to practice in a place like that with people

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Speaker 2: who could otherwise afford healthcare if they just happen to

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Speaker 2: live in a different state, but they can't afford to

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Speaker 2: get insurance. Like the moral injury associate with that in

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Speaker 2: practicing medicine. There's a lot to that, and people go

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Speaker 2: into mesine for a lot of different reasons. But if

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Speaker 2: you ask everyone who you know first applied to med school,

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Speaker 2: what's the first answer to the first question when you

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Speaker 2: want to be a doctor, I would venture ninety ninety

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Speaker 2: five percent would say because I want to help people.

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Speaker 2: When an entire system is set up so you can't

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Speaker 2: help people, and it's a different state by state, and

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Speaker 2: it becomes more challenging when a new administration comes in

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Speaker 2: and puts up rules and tries to do things like

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Speaker 2: Medicaid blog brands, which will decrease a number of people

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Speaker 2: in Medicaid, which decrease the number of people with ACA plans,

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Speaker 2: which they did when he was last president, two millions

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Speaker 2: fewer people had insurance than have it now. That makes

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Speaker 2: it harder to do this job. It is genuinely a

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Speaker 2: moral injury, and you're right we have the economic privilege

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Speaker 2: to say I'm just going to step away, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do something else, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: use my savings or what have you and try to

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Speaker 2: live a different life and not have to day by

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Speaker 2: day be exposed to this risk and that moral injury

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Speaker 2: of people being sick that don't have to be sick.

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Speaker 2: That's hard, and again that's something from which we have

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Speaker 2: to claw back, and I think we will. I think

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Speaker 2: we can, but it's going to just take a concerted

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Speaker 2: effort people talking about it and promoting truth wherever we can.

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Speaker 1: And to that point, I wholeheartedly agree. And I wonder

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Speaker 1: about your thoughts with regard to places like New York

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Speaker 1: and California who have governors that are saying, you will

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Speaker 1: keep you safe, You'll be safe, you know this place,

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Speaker 1: it will be a haven, etc. To what extent do

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Speaker 1: you think that that is possible when the government, right,

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Speaker 1: the federal government is the largest institution that can help

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Speaker 1: or harm people at will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's possible to blunt the negative impact.

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Speaker 2: And don't forget my governor Gretchen whitmerher in Michigan. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you love her, and she is vowed to defend people's

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Speaker 2: rights and to help promote their health. So I think yeah,

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Speaker 2: they definitely can have a very significant impact on that.

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Speaker 2: State policies and state boards of health and even in

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Speaker 2: communities right, county health departments have a huge say in

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Speaker 2: what's of available right and spreading truth and good information.

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Speaker 2: It just having someone like Ourka, or having Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: or having os and positions of power with a platform

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Speaker 2: with a megaphone just makes it harder. It just means

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Speaker 2: they're going to have to work harder to provide the

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Speaker 2: counter narratives of truths from what people are getting from

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Speaker 2: the administration and find the right channels of communication to

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Speaker 2: do that right, whether it be on podcasts like this

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Speaker 2: YouTube TikTok, you know, where people are consuming the information.

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Speaker 2: It just makes their job harder and I'm sure very frustrating,

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Speaker 2: But you know, these are people. That's why they're there

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Speaker 2: to help protect and defend the people of their state.

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Speaker 2: I have faith in them. I feel badly for people

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Speaker 2: in Florida, people in Texas. I really do my colleagues,

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Speaker 2: but just general citizen rido, mate just kind of can't

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Speaker 2: think about it every day. They just set their liver,

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Speaker 2: the lives and you know, take care of their families.

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Speaker 2: But they're they're being bombarded, you know, with people like

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Speaker 2: DeSantis out there kind of voice the same crazy use

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Speaker 2: as we're hearing from Trunk.

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Speaker 1: What advice do you give to people right now, particularly

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Speaker 1: those who use the Affordable Care Act for their healthcare

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Speaker 1: who are at risk? I think, what is it? It's

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Speaker 1: over twenty million people, myself included as a self employed person,

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Speaker 1: who are at risk. What advice do you give to

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Speaker 1: people as this administration comes in?

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Speaker 2: I think, no matter where you live, please please please

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Speaker 2: communicate to your elected officials in the federal government. You're

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Speaker 2: a member of Congress, your senator. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: happen to live in an area with a Republican member

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Speaker 2: of Congress, Republican senator, call in. Let their office know

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Speaker 2: how much you depend upon those and if they are

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Speaker 2: going to make changes, they have to make sure they

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Speaker 2: have something ready to replace whatever they think is not working.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, it could all be better, right. Your

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Speaker 2: insurance is still expensive, I'm sure, and your cope and

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Speaker 2: doctorbles are still more than they should be. So if

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Speaker 2: they have ideas, I mean, we are you know, I

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Speaker 2: work to this organization the Committee to Protect Healthcare. We're

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Speaker 2: a non partisan organization. It just so happens. We haven't

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Speaker 2: yet found a Republican with policy proposals that actually are

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Speaker 2: going to help people more than more than what we've

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Speaker 2: got going. But if they come to the table with

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Speaker 2: something that generally is better, is cheaper, provides more access,

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Speaker 2: let's go like we are ready, We'll jump on board.

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Speaker 2: The problem is everything we've seen them do makes it

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Speaker 2: more expensive, that has less access, less coverage, and will

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Speaker 2: hurt more people. So I think it's really speaking up

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Speaker 2: and voicing that your support of what you have and

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Speaker 2: your need to have affordable health care to those people

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Speaker 2: in those positions to take the vote that could take

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Speaker 2: it away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I had told my listeners and followers,

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Speaker 1: you know, to book their doctor's appointments, to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they're up to date on their vaccines, to do

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Speaker 1: whatever seizures that maybe they had been putting off because

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Speaker 1: we don't know when and how it will be pulled away,

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Speaker 1: but that you know, it could very well be a

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Speaker 1: light switch moment where you know, tens of millions of

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Speaker 1: people wake up and don't have health care.

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Speaker 2: I think that's smart advice. I don't think anyone could

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Speaker 2: argue with that advice. We don't know what the future holds,

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Speaker 2: but if we know what is happening in the present

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Speaker 2: and what we have, yeah, I mean, I think that's

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Speaker 2: a very good advice that I'm going to take to heart.

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Speaker 1: And finally, doctor Davidson, again, we have but a couple

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Speaker 1: of months left until this takes shape, the fullness of

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Speaker 1: this administration comes into view. What is your advice to

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Speaker 1: young people that are going into the medical profession at

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Speaker 1: the same time that this administration is taking shape? What

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Speaker 1: do you say to those young people?

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Speaker 2: I think too fold one, it is still a very

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Speaker 2: rewarding thing to be able to be a person in

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Speaker 2: your community that helps keep the community healthy, to help

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Speaker 2: take care of people and their families. So it is

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Speaker 2: still extremely rewarding and it's worthwhile. I think. The other

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Speaker 2: thing is we have agency. We have a voice through

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Speaker 2: organizations like ours or other organizations. Physician voices are critically important.

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Speaker 2: Right to speak out on behalf of our patients, whether

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Speaker 2: it before policies we believe in or against the policies

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Speaker 2: or the actions of Trump or anyone else who is

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Speaker 2: going to endanger our patients or our ability to help them,

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Speaker 2: and so do not just sit on your hands. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's hard. Early on, we've had people in organization

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Speaker 2: who've been threatened by employers, by big hospitals because we've

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Speaker 2: kind of been going after policies that the hospitals use

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Speaker 2: to make things more expensive. And you know, these folks

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Speaker 2: are like, I have a mortgageized student loans. I'm the

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Speaker 2: primary bread earner. I get it. I get it. But

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Speaker 2: I think if we want to have you know, the

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Speaker 2: system we have and we want to make it better,

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Speaker 2: we have to lift up our own voices. You know,

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Speaker 2: we have to it. It's as much as it might be

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Speaker 2: difficult for us, it's a lot easier for us than

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Speaker 2: this for a lot of our patients. You know, we

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Speaker 2: have that ability, and we have the economic security to

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Speaker 2: be able to do that, definitely more than a lot

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Speaker 2: of our patients too. And we have expertise, and we

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Speaker 2: for the most part have the trust of people who

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Speaker 2: were talking to And so make that a part of

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Speaker 2: how you practice medicine advocacy, using your voice and as

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Speaker 2: public the way it is you feel comfortable doing. I

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Speaker 2: think that's a new piece of medicine that I didn't

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Speaker 2: consider back in the nineties when I first got into

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Speaker 2: those and I think it's just become clear that we

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Speaker 2: have to be there, we have to have that piece

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Speaker 2: above the way we practice medicine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, doctor Davidson, thank you so much for making time

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Speaker 1: for WOKF Daily. Really appreciate your insights and your advice.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I really enjoy talking with you, and I'm happy

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Speaker 2: to do it anytime.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, we'll have you back again soon.

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Speaker 2: That is it.

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Speaker 1: But for me today to hear friends on Woke af

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Speaker 1: as always power to the people and to all the

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Speaker 1: people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.