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Speaker 1: It's really hard to feel like you can move through

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Speaker 1: something that feels hard, impossible, painful, lonely if you don't

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Speaker 1: feel like there's at least one other person in the

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Speaker 1: world who was saying, yeah, this is hard, I see

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Speaker 1: you in this.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, Emily Abadi here coming to you from the

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Speaker 2: AG studio.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to Hurdle a While.

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Speaker 2: On this focused podcast where I connect with everyone from

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Speaker 2: your favorite athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about

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Speaker 2: their highest highs, toughest moments, and everything in between. We

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Speaker 2: all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through

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Speaker 2: these discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours

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Speaker 2: and move with intention so that you can stride towards

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Speaker 2: your own big potential and of course some fun along

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Speaker 2: the way. Today, for Hurdle Moment, I am chatting with

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Sofer. She's the co founder of Modern Loss, a

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Speaker 2: website offering candid content, resources, and community on loss and grief.

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Speaker 2: She's also the author of the upcoming book, The Modern

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Speaker 2: Lost Handbook, an interactive guide to moving through grief and

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Speaker 2: building your resilience. I know the topic is that the

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Speaker 2: most sexy, but talking about grief is really important. I

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Speaker 2: saw a statistic that I cited in today's episode that

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Speaker 2: was fifty seven percent of Americans reported experiencing a major

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Speaker 2: loss over the last three years, And as Rebecca says

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Speaker 2: in today's episode, that can be death, but it can

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Speaker 2: also be the dissolving of relationships, whether they're botonic or

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Speaker 2: something more intimate. Rebecca gets really open and shares her

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Speaker 2: personal story of losing both of her parents by her

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Speaker 2: mid thirties and how she came to creating a space

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Speaker 2: to help individuals process their own grief as she was

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Speaker 2: navigating her She also offers up her best practice tips

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Speaker 2: for navigating grief, ranging from journaling and specific thought prompts

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Speaker 2: to movement and talk therapy, and we.

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Speaker 3: Get into the ins and outs of all of that.

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Speaker 2: Really, really, I mean, this is an important conversation, like

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Speaker 2: I said, and I feel as though, especially after the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years and COVID, we have all gone

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Speaker 2: through the thick of it in our own way, on

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Speaker 2: our own time, and now it's so critical for us

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Speaker 2: to have these open, honest conversations about smart ways to

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Speaker 2: move forward.

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Speaker 3: And as Rebecca says today.

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Speaker 2: Reclaim your joy because you are worthy of good things.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you're following along with kurnel Over on Socialism's

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Speaker 2: at Little podcast.

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Speaker 3: I am over at Emily Abodi.

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Speaker 2: I am also recording this shortly before hopping up to Boston.

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Speaker 2: So much going on this week, ranging from the live

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Speaker 2: show with Puma to my sit down with Dez and

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Speaker 2: Inside Tracker.

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Speaker 3: Also our Hurdler run this coming Friday.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to link to all of the things that

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Speaker 2: you need to know in the show notes, So if

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Speaker 2: you're going to be local to the area, I hope

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Speaker 2: that we can cross paths.

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Speaker 3: That's it for now. With that, let's get to hurtling Today.

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Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Rebecca Sofer. She's the co

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Speaker 2: founder and CEO of Modern Loss. She's also an author.

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Speaker 2: Her new book coming out, The Modern Lost Handbook and

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Speaker 2: Interactive Guides and moving through grief and building your resilience.

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Speaker 3: It's come in. How you doing today, Rebecca?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here, and I think that, in fact, that

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Speaker 1: says a lot for human beings at this moment in

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. I'm here, I'm upright. I brushed my teeth

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Speaker 1: this morning, so I think I'm doing pretty well.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm doing pretty well well Small wins. I'm

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Speaker 2: all about that approach. Sometimes you got to go micro.

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Speaker 2: I'm also just really excited to have you on here

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Speaker 2: today to talk about something that does come up a

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Speaker 2: lot in the conversations I have on the show, and

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Speaker 2: that is grief, something that you personally know a lot about,

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Speaker 2: especially because it is the foundation for your community, modern loss.

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Speaker 2: So why don't we start off by you telling us

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Speaker 2: a little bit about what modern loss is and then

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Speaker 2: giving us some insight into your journey to building modern loss.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm such an enormous admirer of what you've built, so congratulations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm here talking about something that I never thought that

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Speaker 1: which is grief and loss and dealing with the mess

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Speaker 1: and dealing with the fallout and specifically figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to build resilience and live well in the face of

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Speaker 1: all of it. I started something called Modern Loss more

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Speaker 1: than eight years ago with my co founder Gabby good

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Speaker 1: friend of mine who I met because of our personal

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Speaker 1: grief stories. And it wasn't my life plan, you know,

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Speaker 1: this was not something that I grew up dreaming of doing.

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up thinking that one day I'd like

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Speaker 1: to start a grief community or publish personal essays around

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Speaker 1: the experience or speak about it. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a journalist. I ended up going to Columbia Journalism School.

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Speaker 1: I worked for Stephen Colbert. Right afterwards, I worked for

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Speaker 1: The Colbert Report, where I was a producer, and that

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Speaker 1: was kind of my chosen path. That was my intended path.

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Speaker 1: When I turned thirty and I was working in daily television,

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, a single woman. I was living

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Speaker 1: in New York. I felt like I was really starting

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Speaker 1: to kind of start my life. Really. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: you're single, you're thirty, you're a New Yorker. You're basically

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Speaker 1: like eighteen anywhere else in the country, right you're still

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Speaker 1: like building up your life. You feel like you're starting out.

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Speaker 1: And I really felt like I was in serious build mode,

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Speaker 1: that certain people would be around to witness anything that

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Speaker 1: would happen and support me through it and you know,

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Speaker 1: enjoy it with me. But my mother was killed in

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Speaker 1: a car accident. When I was thirty, I was again

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Speaker 1: working at this television show. I was very much focused

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Speaker 1: family vacation. We went camping in upstate New York in

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Speaker 1: the Adirondacks, and the night that we finished that trip,

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Speaker 1: my parents dropped me off at my apartment in New

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Speaker 1: York City and they continued on to Philadelphia, which is

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Speaker 1: that's my hometown. Less than an hour later, my mom

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Speaker 1: died on the New Jersey Turnpike. There was a terrible accident.

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Speaker 1: She didn't survive. My dad was in the car with her.

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Speaker 1: And I went from being I felt like almost like

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Speaker 1: a girl who was, you know, sitting there thinking about

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Speaker 1: going back to work the next day and thinking about

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Speaker 1: whether she was going to go on a blind date

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Speaker 1: with someone, and you know, worrying about things that were

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Speaker 1: legitimately you know, big things to consider. I went from

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Speaker 1: being that person to two seconds later, wondering how I

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Speaker 1: was going to get through anything ever again without the

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Speaker 1: woman who had been the foundation of my life. And

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Speaker 1: we were very very close. I mean, she was my

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Speaker 1: best friend. And by the way, people lose people all

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Speaker 1: the time who are not their best friends and are

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Speaker 1: still as foundationally altered because of that loss. It's just

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Speaker 1: in my particular case, we were really close. I'm an

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Speaker 1: only child between my parents, and I just was kind

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Speaker 1: of ejected into the after from one second to the next.

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Speaker 1: And so modern loss was born out of the experience

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Speaker 1: of everything changing in my life, of me realizing very

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Speaker 1: quickly how isolating the grief experience can be, even when

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Speaker 1: you're you know, in a room of people who were laughing,

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Speaker 1: which was my job was to go in and work

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Speaker 1: at a comedy show, and it can be so incredibly isolating,

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Speaker 1: even when you're surrounded by people who really want to

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Speaker 1: help you and really care about you and are trying

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Speaker 1: their best to make a difference, like to provide meaningful support.

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Speaker 1: But I realized very quickly how we really suck it

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Speaker 1: talking about this stuff in our culture in casual conversation,

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Speaker 1: and it's just not something that we do any favors

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Speaker 1: for each other over because we keep promoting this stigma

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, grief is something we shouldn't talk about,

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Speaker 1: or it should be better after a year, or it

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Speaker 1: should be fixable or ease with platitudes, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was just out there, a grieving daughter going to

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Speaker 1: work every day, figuring out how to build my life

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Speaker 1: while also navigate deep loss and modern loss. Really came

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Speaker 1: out of that feeling of isolation, of wanting to kind

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Speaker 1: of normalize the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah wow, Well, thank you so much for sharing that

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Speaker 2: with me in the community. And I'm sure there are

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Speaker 2: so many people listening to this right now that can

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Speaker 2: really relate to the struggle that goes hand in hand

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Speaker 2: with navigating such a traumatic event associated with so much grief.

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Speaker 2: Give us an idea of what the weeks, months, maybe

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Speaker 2: years that followed really looked like for you when it

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Speaker 2: came to navigating and understanding.

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Speaker 3: How to move forward with your grief.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that I had lost people before

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Speaker 1: my mom died, but they were not My grandfather died

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Speaker 1: and I loved him. I was eleven. He had been

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Speaker 1: sick for a very long time, so I never really

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Speaker 1: knew him when he was well. My mom dying was

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Speaker 1: a real jolt to me, and I think that the

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Speaker 1: first year, for the most part, I was in such

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Speaker 1: an enormous state of shock and trauma because of the

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Speaker 1: way in which she died as well, you know, there

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Speaker 1: were no anticipated goodbyes. There were no you know, there

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Speaker 1: was no space for like tell me everything I need

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Speaker 1: to know about being an adult, like before you go,

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Speaker 1: like tell me where the money is, tell me what

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Speaker 1: you know, like you know what I mean, like just

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Speaker 1: getting all the answers to mostly just like emotional things

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Speaker 1: that I would have really hoped that she could guide

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Speaker 1: me through as I moved through adulthood, as I moved

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Speaker 1: up in my career, as I maybe got a partner

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Speaker 1: or had kids and got a mortgage and got a dog.

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Speaker 1: And it was really hard for me that first year

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Speaker 1: because the shock really paralyzed me and I was very numb.

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Speaker 1: I could not listen to music for the better part

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Speaker 1: of a calendar year, which to me, you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: is actually crazy because I played violin for sixteen years

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Speaker 1: and I always have music on, Like I'm always dancing,

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Speaker 1: I'm always listening to music. I love, you know, stimulation,

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Speaker 1: I love being around people who were telling stories and

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Speaker 1: laughing and connecting and did so much of it felt

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Speaker 1: like almost like abrasive to my senses for so long,

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Speaker 1: and so I would say that, yeah, I was numb

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Speaker 1: for most of the year. I kind of went through

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Speaker 1: the motions. I tried to fill any white space that

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Speaker 1: existed in terms of free time or silence with things

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Speaker 1: to do. You know, I traveled a lot. I was

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Speaker 1: working for a TV show that went on hiatus like

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Speaker 1: eleven weeks of the year, so I mean I went everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I went to Venezuela, I went to Spain, I went

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Speaker 1: to South Africa for two weeks, like I really went everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I love traveling, so it was you know, it was

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Speaker 1: actually really wonderful for me, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I was clearly trying to escape the things, all the things.

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Speaker 1: After the first year, I would say that things felt worse,

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Speaker 1: and that's where kind of the joke felt like it

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Speaker 1: was on me, Like everybody would put their hand on

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Speaker 1: my shoulder and say, it takes a year, it gets better.

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Speaker 1: Like they kind of suggested that it was this linear

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Speaker 1: process that you just had to hang on, right and

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Speaker 1: just like hang on, like go through all the rungs

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Speaker 1: and they would get slightly more manageable. And in my

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Speaker 1: experience now as I have like hindsight, they do get

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Speaker 1: more manageable and then they get less manageable because this

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Speaker 1: isn't a linear process. This is like two steps forward,

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Speaker 1: a thousand steps back and vice versa. And so year

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Speaker 1: two for me was even harder because that's when like

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Speaker 1: the permanence of it really hit me, like, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: it's not just one Mother's Day that I can pretend

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Speaker 1: that she's not here. Like it's not just one Mother's

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Speaker 1: Day that I'm just going to like go to the

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Speaker 1: Jersey Shore and pretend that, you know, I can't go

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Speaker 1: to Philly. It's every Mother's Day for the rest of time.

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Speaker 1: Or it's not just every Honika or New Year's or

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Speaker 1: any or Tuesday night. It's it's forever. It's a forever thing.

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Speaker 1: And for me, that was really really intense. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I say that year two was harder. The kicker,

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Speaker 1: which is not a short kicker, but germane to this

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Speaker 1: conversation in my story is that my dad died four

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Speaker 1: years after my mom died from a heart attack. So

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Speaker 1: I was thirty when my mom died, thirty four when

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Speaker 1: my dad died. And you know, if there's anything to

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Speaker 1: send you reeling, it's.

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Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I can't the multiple losses in such a

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Speaker 2: short amount of time. I can totally understand why you

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Speaker 2: use the word reeling. I'm sure it was extremely traumatic,

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Speaker 2: and like I said earlier, so many people listening to

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Speaker 2: this can really relate. I read a study that said

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Speaker 2: that fifty percent of Americans have experienced a major loss

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Speaker 2: within the last three years, and thirty two percent of

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Speaker 2: those where the loss of a family member or close friend.

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Speaker 2: So literally everywhere you go on the street, no matter

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Speaker 2: where you are, look around, and there are people grieving everywhere.

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Speaker 2: So I am sure that your experience as we're about

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Speaker 2: to get into really informed the way that you moved

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Speaker 2: forward talk to us about first starting modern loss.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, I kind of want to

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Speaker 1: commend you on realizing this stuff, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that we're in year three of COVID, right, so

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Speaker 1: I think that we're all highly aware that grief is everywhere,

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Speaker 1: permeating everything right now. I mean, you can't open your

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Speaker 1: newsfeed without seeing something really tragic, be it what's going

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Speaker 1: on in Ukraine. We're about to hit the million death

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Speaker 1: mark in the United States from COVID alone. We're in

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Speaker 1: a grief pandemic. But when I started Modern laws, I

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Speaker 1: always said that I wish that I could put a

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Speaker 1: microchip into someone's brain just for like two seconds so

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Speaker 1: that they could feel what I felt, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: want them to suffer. I just was so exhausted of

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Speaker 1: trying to explain how I was feeling, and then I

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Speaker 1: was even more exhausted trying to go out of my

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Speaker 1: way to seem totally fine, because most people made it

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Speaker 1: clear that they didn't really want to know the answer

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Speaker 1: to how are you, And especially when it was like

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Speaker 1: how are you, I was like, Ah, this person doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to know. They just like they don't know what

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Speaker 1: else to say, so they're just asking. They don't want

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Speaker 1: to know the real answer. And I appreciated that the

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Speaker 1: concern a lot of this was offered, like you know,

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Speaker 1: people care. I still shockingly believe in the inherent good

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Speaker 1: of humanity. But the reason I started Modern Loss with

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Speaker 1: Gabby is because I got so sick of feeling like

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Speaker 1: the conversation about grief and loss and the long arc

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Speaker 1: of it all had to be kind of like othered.

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Speaker 1: It had to be siloed into something that was like

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Speaker 1: at a therapist's office or maybe you know, in your

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Speaker 1: religious circle of choice, or you know, with like two

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Speaker 1: close friends who were the safe friends. And I was like, God,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm thirty years old. I spend ten hours

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Speaker 1: a day at work with really cool people. I go

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Speaker 1: home and I crash at night, and then I have

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Speaker 1: like a few hours of social time during the weekends.

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Speaker 1: Like why can't this is folded? Grief is folded into

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Speaker 1: my every single day, Like it doesn't respect working hours.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't like start at the end of the business

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Speaker 1: day and end at nine in the morning the next day.

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Speaker 1: It's every grief is all. It's how I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: the world. It's how I'm maybe choosing my next career step.

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Speaker 1: It's how I might decide who I want to date

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Speaker 1: or if I want to have kids, or what financial

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Speaker 1: decisions I want to make, or how I'm feeling physically.

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Speaker 1: And I realized, like, really, when you're living with loss,

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Speaker 1: that can mean everything. That loss really does foundationally alter

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Speaker 1: your life and it can affect everything. And I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to feel like I could talk about whatever I

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Speaker 1: was going through, like you know, a hard anniversary, or

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Speaker 1: just like how I was feeling extra sensitive after a

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Speaker 1: conversation at work, maybe about like a creative project that

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Speaker 1: made me feel extra sensitive because I was feeling very

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Speaker 1: sad that day, or having you know, a feeling of

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Speaker 1: a bit of trauma like PTSD. I wanted to feel

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Speaker 1: like I could bring that up without feeling like the

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Speaker 1: record had to come to a scratching halt and that

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Speaker 1: it had to just like just be a grief conversation.

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Speaker 1: I was still a person who loved laughing, who wanted

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Speaker 1: to live a great life, who loved her friends, who

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Speaker 1: loved a good joke, like I loved music. I loved

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Speaker 1: all those things. I also was living with loss, and

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Speaker 1: so I just wanted to feel like I could talk

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Speaker 1: about that stuff in the same breath as I was

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Speaker 1: talking about all the other stuff, and it didn't have

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Speaker 1: to be something that, like, you know, all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you heard crickets. So modern LUSS really came out

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Speaker 1: of that because Gabby and I were really tired of

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Speaker 1: what had existed up until that point, which we were finding.

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Speaker 1: We were like desperately looking for fora and communities to

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Speaker 1: kind of storytell, and we found a lot of religious conversations.

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Speaker 1: We found a lot of clinical conversations, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure we all know the DSM five,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would like self diagnose and go down

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Speaker 1: the rabbit hole late at night and I thought something

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Speaker 1: was so wrong with me, and then eventually I figured

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Speaker 1: out that there was literally nothing wrong with me than

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Speaker 1: that I was grieving, you know. And so we came

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Speaker 1: up with modern loss as a way to fill the

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Speaker 1: void that existed in like communal, very casual, let it

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Speaker 1: all hang out, conversation, in peer to peer support, and

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Speaker 1: stuff that wasn't anchored within platitudes or the pressure to

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Speaker 1: fix something, you know, or assure someone that it takes

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Speaker 1: a year or that it gets better or they're in

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Speaker 1: a better place. We just wanted to create a space

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Speaker 1: for storytelling and especially a place for people to show

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Speaker 1: and not tell people of examples of what loss looked

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Speaker 1: like and what resilience looked like, because this is a

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Speaker 1: very life affirming thing that we wanted to do. This

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Speaker 1: is not like a death project. To me, Modern loss

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Speaker 1: is very much a life affirming thing. It's very much

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Speaker 1: about helping people to live well, but giving them examples

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Speaker 1: instead of just like giving them directives.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there's so much more out there for you.

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Speaker 2: Let's come together to talk about this that we can

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Speaker 2: help another move forward in a productive and helpful way.

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Speaker 2: I was so interested in what you said before and

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Speaker 2: I would co sign it. For the most part, the

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Speaker 2: idea of someone asking how are you and that person

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Speaker 2: not knowing what to do with an honest answer to

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Speaker 2: that question. I feel as though, in today's society, navigating

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Speaker 2: grief can be, as you said, such an uncomfortable situation

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Speaker 2: that we do almost everything we can destroy away for

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Speaker 2: when these topics would arise. So kudos to you for

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Speaker 2: creating this community space where it can be a little

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Speaker 2: bit more normalized to have these conversations and what feels

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Speaker 2: like a safe space without that judgment and without some

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Speaker 2: of the paralysis that otherwise comes hand in hand with this. Now,

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Speaker 2: I think what would be really helpful here is for

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Speaker 2: those individuals that are dealing with grief on their own terms,

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Speaker 2: regardless of how long they have been grieving, there are

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Speaker 2: some helpful suggestions recommendations that you can make for them

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Speaker 2: to help them on their journey. So where do we

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Speaker 2: even start when it comes to trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: how to navigate grief?

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Speaker 1: Look, and I want to say in response to what

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Speaker 1: you just said, is like, you know, some of the

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Speaker 1: conversations that existed before modern laws came into the mix

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Speaker 1: do help people, and some of them actually help me.

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Speaker 1: They just don't all only help me, you know, like

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, Like, they don't all Sorry,

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Speaker 1: let me say that again, not one of them is

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Speaker 1: the only thing that I go to. You know, I

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Speaker 1: just really felt like I needed a space, and Gabby

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Speaker 1: needed a space for people to be able to go

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Speaker 1: and fly whatever flag they needed to fly, as long

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Speaker 1: as they weren't hurting themselves or anybody else, you know,

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Speaker 1: like really wanted this safe, warm conversational. We use a

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Speaker 1: lot of humor, not because we're being disrespectful, but because

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Speaker 1: grief is really messy and sometimes you have to laugh

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Speaker 1: about it because it's totally ludicrous. And also, loss is

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Speaker 1: a forever thing. So if you can't find moments of

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Speaker 1: joy and laughter and levity what you have, you know,

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Speaker 1: as you move through life, you have every reason to

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Speaker 1: feel like you have a community of people who are

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Speaker 1: giving you an ongoing invitation to say whatever you need

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Speaker 1: to say. And I also believe that, yes, kudos to me,

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Speaker 1: kudos to Gabby. But also you know, selfishly, we were

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Speaker 1: just getting really tired of feeling like we had to

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Speaker 1: put on all of these facades to the world saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's totally fine. We don't have to talk

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Speaker 1: about anything. Like to do something like this, to launch

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Speaker 1: this project felt like more of an exhale and more

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Speaker 1: of a relief than to keep on spinning our wheels

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Speaker 1: and pretending like all this stuff wasn't going on underneath

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Speaker 1: the surface. Because you know, what I have come to

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Speaker 1: learn is that or is And this is one of

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Speaker 1: my first you know, specific points for your listeners is

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Speaker 1: that there really is no healing without acknowledgment. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to feel like you can move through something that

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Speaker 1: feels hard, impossible, painful, lonely if you don't feel like

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Speaker 1: there's at least one other person in the world who

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Speaker 1: is saying, yeah, this is hard, I see you in

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Speaker 1: this and not trying to fix it for you and

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Speaker 1: not try and not trying to, you know, brush it

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00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: aside or say it'll get better. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: this is a hard thing you're dealing with. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that is like the very first thing that

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Speaker 1: I would tell anybody who's who is grieving right now,

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Speaker 1: and it's so many of us is and and grief.

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Speaker 1: You know, it could be grief from the loss of

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Speaker 1: a marriage, from the loss of a friendship, like grief.

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Speaker 1: You know, I modern loss is mostly grief as it

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Speaker 1: stems from a death loss, but feelings of grief are

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Speaker 1: very similar. You can find these threads in so many

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Speaker 1: different life experiences. And so just think about the last

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Speaker 1: time you maybe worked really hard on a project at

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Speaker 1: work and you sent it to your manager and maybe

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Speaker 1: they weren't so appreciative of the fact that you worked

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Speaker 1: all weekend and you gave up all this time, and you'll,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're just like running yourself into the ground

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Speaker 1: and you did this and they were like, Okay, thanks,

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Speaker 1: how did that make you feel?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: So it just feels like even that much worse if

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Speaker 1: we don't feel seen and acknowledged and appreciated in what

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Speaker 1: we're actually going through when it comes to grief. I'm

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Speaker 1: a big believer in the right grief therapy. I truly believe,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm luck we're chatting. I'm an Upper

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Speaker 1: West Side New York jewess, So clearly I believe in therapy.

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Speaker 1: But I also believe, especially for grief therapy. I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's so important to find somebody who has not

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Speaker 1: only a vested interest, like a personal interest, but a

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Speaker 1: professional interest and the professional training to give you a

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Speaker 1: dedicated place to talk about your grief and a place

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Speaker 1: that's really safe that is removed from anybody else who

435
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: might have biases, like maybe another family member or a

436
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: friend if you're grieving the same friend, Like you really

437
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: need to give yourself the gift of your own dedicated

438
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: space to explore whatever you're going through and have somebody

439
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: who is trained to give you things that you can

440
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: try out that may help you, and if they don't,

441
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: then suggest something else. And so I just want to

442
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: start by saying, huge believer in formal therapy that said,

443
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the only thing. I think that

444
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: when it comes to grief, you know, there's no like

445
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: you know, here's the solution. Like my book is called

446
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: the Modern Lost Handbook. There's a reason it's like two

447
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty pages long because there's a lot of

448
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: stuff that you should be trying. And I think that

449
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: the key when you're faced with a loss that feels

450
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: so notable to you, and if it feels notable to you,

451
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: then it is it's a big one. I don't care

452
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: who it is that you lost, then you really need

453
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to stay connected with your person.

454
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I think that people forget

455
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: that just because somebody died, it doesn't mean that you

456
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: don't still have a relationship with them. I still very

457
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: much have a relationship with my mom. She's just not alive.

458
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it sucks. I wish she were alive. It

459
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: would be a lot more enjoyable for me. I can't

460
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: pretend that, like, oh, it's great now, I wish you

461
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: were here every day. But I have figured out ways

462
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: to stay connected to her, especially as I moved through

463
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: life and my life shifts, you know, and I got

464
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: married and I had kids, and when I lost her,

465
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: I didn't have any of that. So I view her

466
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: differently with each passing year. And in a way, it's

467
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: very rich for me. It's like getting to know her

468
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: in a different way because I'm like relating to her

469
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: in a different way. So I think that figuring out

470
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: how to stay connected with your person through like memory,

471
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: through creating really meaningful and creative rituals that make you

472
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: feel connected to them, like figuring out ways to get

473
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: through the big days like the death aversaries and the

474
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, I call them anniversary season, which is everybody

475
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: everyone knows what I'm talking about. Who has this. There's

476
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: always this like insulting stretch of the calendar where it

477
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: seems like all the important dates happen at once, right,

478
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: like it's someone died, someone was diagnosed, and then it's

479
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: like all the holidays, and then it's like your birthday,

480
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: and then it's like Arbor Day. And somehow that feels

481
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: really hard to so like, you know, like you need

482
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: to figure out ways to kind of like as time

483
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: moves on farness these days and either just like let

484
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: the day be the day and kind of move through

485
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: it somehow, or like try and craft it into something

486
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: that feels like meaningful to you instead of just like

487
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: suffering through it because you don't deserve that. And I

488
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: think that you really need to figure out ways to

489
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: stay connected with yourself, not just with your person, because

490
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: like I was saying beforehand, grief is like an all

491
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: encompassing thing. It takes charge of our physicality, of our anatomy.

492
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: In the first like six months alone after losing my mom,

493
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: I got like a brain MRI because I had vertigo,

494
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: I had stomach issues. I couldn't sleep a full night

495
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: for months and months and months, like grief just like

496
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: took hold of me, like I was like this marionette

497
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: that it was yanking around the room and I did

498
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: not realize that it was grief. Like that is how

499
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: ignorant I was, And that is also how abnormalized. The

500
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: conversation was that not even one doctor was like, well,

501
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, your mom just died in a really bad

502
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: car accident. It could be that you're just having a

503
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: hard time. Not even one doctor said that to me.

504
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: So figuring out ways to like, you know, what do

505
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: you need for you that, like, you know, in terms

506
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: of therapy, in terms of your mind, your body, like

507
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 1: what coping mechanisms make your body feel better? You know?

508
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: Is it physical? Like I know you're a runner, right,

509
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: is it running a marathon? Is it just running? If

510
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: you're not a runner, then please, by all means, do

511
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: not make yourself do like team in training in someone's

512
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: memory just because they were a runner and died from leukemia.

513
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: You know, figure out what works for you. Is it

514
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: some other physical activity? Is it like mindfulness? Is it

515
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: doing more nature therapy? Is it art therapy? There's so

516
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: many amazing things that you can do. Figuring those out

517
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: and chances are it's a lot of those things all together.

518
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: And then the third thing that you need to do

519
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: in addition to staying connected to your person staying connected

520
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: to yourself is figure out a way to ground yourself

521
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: and stay connected to the world around you. So I

522
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: feel like those are like the three goals when it

523
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: comes to moving through a really profound loss, because you

524
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: still have to deal with your friends and deal with

525
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: maybe your intimate relationships, or find some or figure out

526
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: ways to get through the workday and build something meaningful

527
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: because you deserve it, you know. But the world, just

528
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: at the very least our culture has not done a

529
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: really good job of like serving up what we need

530
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: and intuiting what we need when we're grieving and providing

531
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,239
Speaker 1: it to us. So the reality is is that it

532
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: does fall on our shoulders as the grievers, to figure

533
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: out how we can kind of level up and ask

534
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: for what we need. It's not, by the way, not fair,

535
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: I just want to clarify, but it kind of is

536
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: what it is.

537
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love

538
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: to my sponsors for up ag one from Athletic Greens.

539
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: You know, when I'm getting ready to travel as I

540
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,280
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541
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: aside are my travel packs of ag One.

542
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Speaker 3: Ag One is like my nutritional insurance.

543
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Speaker 2: It's the thing that I make sure to take every

544
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545
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Speaker 2: of my body. It's got seventy five Pole food sourced

546
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547
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548
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Speaker 2: I need to harness my energy, get moving and fuel

549
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550
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551
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552
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Speaker 2: had in the past, and I find it super refreshing.

553
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Speaker 2: Of course, you know this because ag One from Athletic

554
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: Greens is a token sponsor on the show.

555
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,239
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556
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557
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560
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562
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: I also want to give some love to my friends

563
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: at inside Tracker. I mentioned a live show that we

564
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: are hosting this weekend. I'm sitting down with legend Dez Linden.

565
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: She's been on the show twice before. So excited for

566
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: this and so grateful for the support of inside Tracker. Now,

567
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,640
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568
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,800
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569
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,640
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570
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571
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,280
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572
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573
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574
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575
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,880
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576
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: now on my third round of inside Tracker testing and

577
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: it has been really really interesting to see how my

578
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: biomarkers have changed over time. When I first did my

579
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: original Inside at the Tracker mobile blood draw, I learned

580
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: that I was low in iron and farridin and then

581
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: I got some really excellent suggestions for how to up

582
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: that in my everyday intake. I'm now eating red meat

583
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: once a week. I'm also eating a diet that has

584
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: more spinach some hashees, and I have noticed a difference

585
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: not just in the fact that my levels are better,

586
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: but also that my energy levels are better, and that

587
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: this feedback is really helping me do exactly what they're

588
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 2: saying here, level up and perform better. Now. Of course,

589
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,680
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590
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,360
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591
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592
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593
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594
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596
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Speaker 3: No code necessary.

597
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: So many great tips in there, starting with acknowledging what's

598
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: going on, being honest with yourself about how you're feeling.

599
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: I love what you said, the note of understanding that

600
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: someone in your life that may be grieving, they're not

601
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: necessarily at any given moment looking for your advice on

602
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: how to move forward with their grief, but rather just

603
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: looking for someone to hold a safe space for them

604
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: and I think that that is such a really beautiful

605
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: and important point. Also the recommendation of seeking out a

606
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: therapist and understanding that you want someone that is going

607
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: to be able to hold that same space for you

608
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: and come to you with an unbiased point of view.

609
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: And I really really appreciated the idea of reframing experiences

610
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: or moments that maybe you had with that person and

611
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: perhaps even starting new traditions. I think that that's a

612
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: really beautiful opportunity. Is Yes, you can feel some kind

613
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: of way upset, frustrated, what have you about things needing

614
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: to shift going forward, But to your point of the

615
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: necessity of having to live your life, that life is

616
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: going to go on. So you have it within your

617
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: power to make the decision of how you do that.

618
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: Starting new traditions, thinking of things a different way, it

619
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: can make all the difference it can.

620
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: And I want to say that, like, I'm not saying

621
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: that you need to figure this out like the first

622
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: month after a loss, right, Like I it took me

623
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: a really long time to even find the right grief therapist.

624
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think I found the right person

625
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: for me, which this is an excusable for two years,

626
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: like two. I mean, it took me so long, and

627
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: then it took me a really long time to figure

628
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: out my social supports and so it just took me

629
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: a really long time. But that's because I was just

630
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: I didn't have any roadmap whatsoever, and so many people

631
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: weren't talking about this. And so what modern loss is

632
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: trying to do is like just put hanging out there,

633
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: you know, like we don't have anything to be embarrassed about.

634
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: Let's let it all hang out so that you can

635
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: see examples of what other people are going through and

636
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: you can be exposed to other ways of thinking ritual

637
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: ideas that you might not have thought of right or

638
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: or venting, or you know, hearing what other people are

639
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: struggling with and you know, seeing how they're moving through it,

640
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: and maybe that's kind of going to help you as

641
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: you move through your own thing. And I do want

642
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: to say, like just with a very specific thing, like

643
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: when you talk about creating new rituals, you know that

644
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: is that can be so amazing. And I think that

645
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: we all look at holidays right it's like, oh, like

646
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: the person is or the tradition is missing, and you

647
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to take like Christmas or like, you know, Birthday.

648
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: You don't have to, you know, say okay, what new

649
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: tradition are we going to do at Christmas? You can

650
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: create your own bespoke holiday in somebody's memory. And I'll

651
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: give you an example. My friend Amanda's she's great, we

652
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: went to Emory together. She's one of my favorite people.

653
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: Her dad died right after she graduated college. His name

654
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: is Dave, and I always say is because like people's

655
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: names are still their names, by the way, And she

656
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: had a really hard time with his death day. I mean,

657
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: who wouldn't for a long time, and she was finally like, god, man,

658
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: I would like to turn this into something that feels

659
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: other than a day that I need to like muscle

660
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: through somehow emotionally. And so she thought, well, my dad,

661
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, he really loved a good Bombay sapphiretail. He

662
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: really loved filet of fish. And she started a holiday

663
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: called the Dave John's Memorial Big Mac Day, and she

664
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: sent out an email I think it was an email

665
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: or early Facebook days and she was like, listen, this

666
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: day in December, this is my dad's death day, and

667
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: we're turning it into a holiday. And he loved this stuff.

668
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: So I would love for you to go eat something decadent.

669
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: Oh my god, just get whatever, like the worst possible

670
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: thing is for you that you can really enjoy and

671
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: just do it in my dad's name, like toast him,

672
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: you know. And so as social media became more low

673
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: touch and like more connected, every single year we all

674
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: post photos of what we're eating. It's like some like

675
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 1: awful crap for our bodies, and it's like so good

676
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: and we say we're like, well, it's for Dave, you know,

677
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: and it's just so amazing because we really do feel connected.

678
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: Like I will never meet her dad, but I know

679
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: that he was like a bomb vivont who I really loved,

680
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: like relish life and was this larger than life personality.

681
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: And I honor his memory for her by doing concrete

682
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 1: things that she can see. So like I'm witnessing her loss.

683
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: She feels like people are witnessing this day for her,

684
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: but they're also creating a community to catch her. And

685
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: it's just this. I just love that example, because you know,

686
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: I love eating Big Max and I do it once a.

687
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: Year, and I do it once a year for Dave.

688
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: I really I love that example. I think it's really

689
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: it's really beautiful, and I mean I'm always up for

690
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: an excuse to load up on something good like that.

691
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 2: I also really appreciate, beyond the idea of just going

692
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: to therapy, and thank you for sharing your experience that

693
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: it took a couple of years for you, because I

694
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 2: think that's really helpful for people to hear. I also

695
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: know that within the Modern Lost Handbook there are a

696
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 2: lot of really helpful prompts for the readers to check out.

697
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: So talk to us a little bit about why writing

698
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: and why perhaps visiting some of these topics and you

699
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 2: can feel free to share a few of them, why

700
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: that exercise can be really helpful when it comes to

701
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 2: navigating grief.

702
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so the book it's called the Modern Lost Handbook,

703
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: But there's a reason it's not called the Modern Lost Workbook, right,

704
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: which is it's not just a book where it's like

705
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: full of just prompts. It's actually heavily written, but there

706
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: are a lot of sections in which you can write.

707
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: Because I truly believe, you know, modern laws was founded

708
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: on the tenet that storytelling is a change agent and

709
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: that if you can't figure out a way to reflect

710
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: on and share your own narrative, then somebody else is

711
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: going to be more than happy to like tell you

712
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: what they think it should be, right, your boss, your friends.

713
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: You know. I went through so so many months like

714
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: walking into parties and thinking that like everybody was saying, oh,

715
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: that's the girl with dead parents, and like I think

716
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: some of them actually did to each other, but like

717
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: some of that was also in my mind. And I

718
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: was very nervous to start talking about what I was

719
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: going through because I felt like I didn't want to

720
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: be the Debbie Downer. I didn't want to scare people away.

721
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: I didn't want them to think that grief was contagious,

722
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: which it's not, but a lot of people think it is.

723
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: And the more I realized that like nothing bad was

724
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: happening if I was candid about what I was going through,

725
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: If I felt like I wanted to share a memory

726
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: of my mom on a given day, or tell my

727
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: friend like, listen, I'm having a really hard time. I

728
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: really think that I need somebody to just like come

729
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: and sit with me tonight and watch Grey's Anatomy and

730
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: like please don't talk, but just like be a physical

731
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: presence next to me. It took me a while to

732
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: figure out how to do all that stuff and not

733
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: feel nervous or shy or embarrassed about it. And then

734
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: I realized that like it felt so much more powerful.

735
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: I felt so much more resilient, I felt so much

736
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: more capable. I felt like I really was leveling up

737
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: for myself during tough times, when I could get to

738
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: the point where I could voice my needs and maybe

739
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be met, but at least I was voicing them,

740
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: and then I wasn't like feeling resentful that they weren't

741
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: being met. And so the prompts are, they're they're very varied,

742
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the book, but there are a lot

743
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: of exercises that helped you to kind of examine where

744
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: you're at with your loss. One of them is called

745
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: a six word memoir, which I love this practice so much.

746
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: It's basically like coming up with your story wherever you're at,

747
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: in six words, you know, and I do these a

748
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: lot at live storytelling events for modern loss. You know.

749
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: Some examples are, she never got to see Paris and

750
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: now I'm an only child, I would say mine. One

751
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: of mine is Jay Daters don't like dead moms, you know,

752
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: so It could be like as simple as sitting down

753
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: and writing a list of like six words of what

754
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: you're feeling, or as fleshed out as you know. The

755
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: section on friendship in which I try and guide you

756
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: through kind of taking stock of who is in your

757
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: circle right and who are the friends who you can

758
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: go to for particular things, and how you can build

759
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: up a network of people who really can catch you

760
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: with whatever you're going through on any given day. And

761
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: that does take writing and reflecting on who's in your life.

762
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: It does take writing down what you might respond to

763
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 1: somebody who says something that really hits you the wrong way.

764
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: People say really dumb things to people who are grieving.

765
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that the people are dumb. It just

766
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: means they say dumb things like I don't know one

767
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: person who has ever been comforted by you know it

768
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: takes a year, or like at least you weren't super close,

769
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: or at least they met your husbands like I, you know,

770
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: or you can always get pregnant. And again, I mean,

771
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: like the list goes on and on. These are always

772
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: offered with the best intentions, but they ring hollow. I guarantee,

773
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: even things that are maybe faith based that are offered

774
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: to somebody who has a lot of faith may ring

775
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: hollow because you know, grief levels so much and it

776
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: really may shake your faith for a period of time.

777
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: And so you know, there's a whole section on like

778
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: figuring out writing through like when people say certain things

779
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: like how would you like to respond to them? How

780
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: would you like to say, like this isn't helpful in

781
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: a way that rings true to you. How would you

782
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: like to speak up for what you need? How would

783
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: you like to talk to your manager about like different

784
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: things that you might need regarding maybe flexible schedules, time off,

785
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And so I do find writing to

786
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: be an incredibly healing activity, and it doesn't have to

787
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: be penning the next year of magical thinking.

788
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 2: That's why you're trying to say. I do think it's

789
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: super helpful, and I also love your point. The things

790
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: that may not be the most comforting, they're very early,

791
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: if ever delivered with the wrong intention, right, So it's

792
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: just that these individuals they don't know what could be

793
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: quote unquote the right thing to say. So it's not

794
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 2: your responsibility to educate them necessarily. But I do think

795
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: that at least knowing that while you're going through these

796
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: troubling times, it helps you kind of navigate forward in

797
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: whatever way you have to navigate forward. Having a little

798
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: bit extra compassion for yourself and how you hear these

799
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: things can be super, super valuable. I do have one

800
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: more question for you, and I'm really curious about this

801
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 2: because I feel as though someone listening to this they

802
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: hear a strong woman, a mother, a wife who has

803
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 2: truly gone through some really devastating loss and now at

804
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: the forefront of this community talking about grief so regularly.

805
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel as though perhaps the or that

806
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: you use to help others is one that you have

807
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 2: to fall on navigating your own personal grief journey.

808
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:15,959
Speaker 1: Wow, Oh, such a poetic thought to ponder at two

809
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: forty eight pm. So so yeah, I mean, look, it's

810
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: a fair question. As I said at the beginning of

811
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: the conversation, this is absolutely not the path that I

812
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: would have chosen for myself in life, right Like, first,

813
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have chosen to have two dead parents by

814
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: the age of thirty four, That much is clear. But

815
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: I never thought that I would turn like my personal

816
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: grief into a mission. And I absolutely do not believe

817
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: that everything everybody has to turn their hard thing into

818
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: a mission. I think that's like suggested in our society

819
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: that like, oh, it's like you need to run a

820
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: marathon in their name, or you need to create a founder.

821
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything. The only thing that

822
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: you need to do is figure out how to live

823
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: and how to live well, because you've made a choice

824
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: to stick around, and you deserve to figure out how

825
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: to live the best life that you can possibly live

826
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: with the hand that you have been dealt. Every single

827
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 1: person deserves that chance. It's just that, in my crazy reality,

828
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: I did choose to turn this grief into this particular mission,

829
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: mostly because you know, I'm a writer, I'm a producer,

830
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist, I'm a storyteller. So like all of

831
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: this stuff already kind of aligned with what I do

832
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: naturally and professionally. I mean, I built communities. You know,

833
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: this was like kind of already like a very natural

834
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: thing for me to do. And I understood the content.

835
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: I understood what needed to be said in the conversation,

836
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: not just because of my own experience, but because of

837
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 1: the experience of so many of our community members, which

838
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: are all over the world now, and so yes, like

839
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people did say, you know, you should

840
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: be careful because this night really hold you back, This

841
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: might prevent you from moving through something and getting to

842
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: a better place. I found quite the opposite, because so

843
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: many people have asked me like how can you When

844
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: I started Modern Loss, everybody looked at me and Gabby

845
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: as though we were super morbid. People like why do

846
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: you want to do a death project? Why do you

847
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: want to talk about grief? And I was like, have

848
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: you met me? Like I just worked at Comedy Central,

849
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: Like this isn't this isn't a morbid project. This is

850
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: a very life affirming thing. I'm trying to help people

851
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: feel like they can share their stories with others, and

852
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: then by extension, I'm trying to help them build community

853
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: with others. And then by extension, we're trying to teach others,

854
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: just through really good storytelling, what it must feel like

855
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: to go through something like this. And then maybe we're

856
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: making it easier for the next person that goes through it,

857
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: because slowly we're changing how we approach a conversation in

858
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: this culture. So I feel very motivated, I feel very grateful.

859
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: I feel like this was in some ways, like a

860
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: very selfish project that was started to answer some questions

861
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: that I had about my own loss and what my

862
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: own path, but ended up teaching me exponentially more than

863
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: I ever thought it could. And to see people connect

864
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: with each other and pull each other through this darkness

865
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: stemming from some of the worst things that have ever

866
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: happened in their lives. I feel incredibly lucky to go

867
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: through that. And I do have moments where, yeah, I

868
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: wish I could take a break from loss. I mean,

869
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: of course I do. I'm a human person, right, and

870
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: I have had a lot of hard moments over the

871
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: last couple of years because the grief has been so

872
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: oh palpable in the world.

873
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: You know.

874
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: It's like I've already been working in grief, and now everybody,

875
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's like the first time in eight years

876
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: that no one says, oh, like what you were what

877
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: you do is kind of interesting, you know, And by

878
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: interesting they mean like sounds kind of weird. Everybody understands

879
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: why we have to be talking about this stuff out

880
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: loud right now, And so it is a lot to hold.

881
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: It's a lot to hold, and so I just continually

882
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: have to figure out ways to treat myself kindly. I

883
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: have to take my own advice as it were in

884
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: the book and listen to my body, you know, listen

885
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: to my needs and feed them.

886
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, I mean, this is

887
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: like your last tip, right asking yourself what is it

888
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: that you need so that you can better show up

889
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: in the day to day. And I will also add

890
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 2: to that that I'm so sure that your community is

891
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 2: indebted and forever grateful for the work that you put

892
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: into creating this space and everyone that comes to the

893
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: space better for having stumbled upon it. So thank you

894
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: so much for both what you do and also for

895
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 2: sharing your tips with the hurdlers. I know, again, we

896
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: gave that huge statistic earlier. More than fifty seven percent

897
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: of Americans reported experience and maging loss over the last

898
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: three years. That stat is from the very beginning of

899
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 2: the pandemic. So now, well, do you know where.

900
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: We're at now? There's something called a bereavement multiplier, which

901
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: suggests that for every person who has died from COVID,

902
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: and we're kind of at hovering around the million person

903
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: mark right now in this country. By the way, that

904
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: number could very well be two hundred thousand more than

905
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: that because of their they look at like what the

906
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: death rate normally is versus what it actually is, and

907
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: it's actually two hundred thousand more than it should be.

908
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: And it could be from lingering symptoms or things stemming

909
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: from the pandemic. For every person who dies from COVID,

910
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: nine people are directly affected by that death. It could

911
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: be a dependent dependence, It could be a partner, it

912
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: could be a business partner, it could be a friend,

913
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: It could be so many people. So just do the math.

914
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: I mean this. We are living with so much loss

915
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: right now, and we are in a grief pandemic that

916
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: is going to way outlast the viral pandemic, and we

917
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: have to figure out a way to pull each other

918
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: through this. We have to because what more do we

919
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: have but each other. Sorry to sound pollyannish, but it's true.

920
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

921
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 2: To finish off here, really the idea of as you

922
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 2: just kind of touched on, putting your own oxygen mask

923
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: on so that you can make sure that you are

924
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: in a good place to help other people. It starts

925
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: with doing that internal audit and going from there and

926
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: perhaps getting into some of those journaling that we mentioned,

927
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: and so much more so. Again, thank you so much

928
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: for your help your insight.

929
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 1: Rebecca.

930
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: How do the hurdlers follow along with you? How do

931
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: they keep up with you? Give us the info?

932
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: So if you do at Modern Loss anywhere, you'll find

933
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 1: us on Instagram, Twitter, or on Facebook. I'm at Reboke. Sorry,

934
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: I'm at Rebecca Sofer everywhere. Soffer Modern laws dot Com

935
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: is the publication. Everything is open and free to the public.

936
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: And also I have a newsletter on substack, which is

937
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: like a monthly deep dive in which I talk to

938
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: different like notable figures.

939
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: You know.

940
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: I've spoken with Cynthia Nixon and Stacy London. It's just

941
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: been this incredible experience of kind of like doing a

942
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: deep dive into grief and resilience that really kind of

943
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: lets people kind of pull the curtain back into someone

944
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: else's experience. And of course, now this book, The Modern

945
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: Lost Handbook and Interactive Guide to Moving through Grief and

946
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: Building Your Resilience, is available wherever books are sold for

947
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: pre order and out in the world. May seventeenth.

948
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: I will make sure to link the book in the

949
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 2: show notes. Is the Substackmodernlass at substock dot com. Yes, yes, awesome,

950
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: all right, I'll link.

951
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: That as well.

952
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: Rebecca, thanks so much.

953
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast

954
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: Another hurdle conquered.

955
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.