WEBVTT - 9. Testify 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.160 From My Heart Radio. This is Missing on nine eleven, 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:10.879 the story of one woman who vanished on the eve 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.319 of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host, 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:46.000 John Wallzac. My name is del Tige. I'm the principal 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.160 court attorney referee assigned to this matter. I'm at microphone 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.800 one and before us today as an absentee proceeding in 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.560 the estate of Snaeja and Philip Foul number three five 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:02.360 four two foul than four Surrogate's Court of the State 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.320 of New York, County of New York. Snay House family 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.120 is here today nine and eighty nine days after nine eleven, 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.039 fighting for a death certificate recognizing that snay Ha died 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.520 on nine eleven at the World Trade Center. Representing the 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:21.240 court is Deltigue. An attorney referee representing Snayhouse family is 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.399 Attorney Mark Bogutin, and representing snay Ha in absentia is 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.240 Ellen Winner, the Guardian ad Ltem. Also present today are 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:35.080 Ron Lieberman say House husband Unshoe, Philip snay House, mom, 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:40.400 John Philip snay House younger brother, Ken Gallant, Ron's private investigator, 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.240 and Mark Freiberg, the attorney who represented snay haa before 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.960 nine eleven. Now, unfortunately we don't have tapes of the hearing, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.160 so instead we're using voice actors to recreate it. What 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.040 you're about to hear is verbatim testimony, edited very lightly 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.320 for clarity and flow. Listen closely. It's the only time 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.240 you'll get to hear directly from certain people like private 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.400 investigator Can Galant, who have otherwise never spoken publicly about 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.800 this case. You'll hear me interject occasionally. We start with 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.880 Attorney Mark Boguten, Mr Gallant, can you please tell us 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.040 how you're currently employed. I'm a private investigator at Silverman 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.200 Associates in New York. And can you tell us about 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.000 your professional background and prior experience before I was a 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.280 special agent of the FBI for twenty three years in 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.040 New York. And when did you retire from that position 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.520 end of and what unit were you assigned to when 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.480 you retired at the end of ninety nine? Special operations 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.520 and what is that about? What does that entail? Special 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.120 operations would be dealing with white collar and drugs and 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:53.440 organized crime, special investigations, undercover units, things like that. And 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.280 since retiring from the FBI, have you been employed as 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.320 a private investigator? Yes, and have there come a point 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.600 in time when you were attained by Ron Lieberman in 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.280 connection with I was retained by Mr Lieberman and his family. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.839 Shortly after the nine eleven incident. He came to our 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.600 office and related a story that his wife had been missing. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.839 He had done quite an extensive search he himself initiated, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.480 but he wanted more. He wanted to expand the search 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.560 and gain more knowledge and police liaison to try and 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.960 determine the facts of where she was or what happened, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.799 and any other information he could gather. And can you 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.519 tell us what did you do in connection with the investigation. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.480 The first thing we did was Mr Lieberman had done 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.640 a lot himself with posters and talked to friends and everything. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.640 The first thing we did was liaison with the police 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.000 and get a hold of her computer. And as the 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.480 investigation went on, we did an extensive search of her computer. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.920 What we were basically looking for is we were trying 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.680 to recreate where she was. Secondly, we wanted to determine 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.880 if she had mentioned to anyone any intention she had 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.000 of leaving going anywhere, traveling anywhere. After that, we were 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.200 going to expand the circle as to her activities where 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.440 she could have gone, how she could have gotten there, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.040 who she could have told, who she would have gone with. 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.360 So with this type of investigation in mind, we spoke 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.680 to coworkers, friends, family, bar room areas in the clubs 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.200 where she could have been. We determined that she was 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.520 last seen in the area of Century twenty one, which 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.120 is right where she lived. And we determined that we 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.960 could never place her any further than where she lived 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.360 in that six block area. She had no indication she 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.719 was going to go to any place. She had no 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.360 indication that she was going to travel. There was no 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.080 indication that there was any strife in her life other 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.200 than that, but that she had friends at work. I 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.160 spoke to people she worked with up there. They had 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.719 glowing reports about her. And I could not determine that 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.000 she was any place but near her home prior to that. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:51.800 And how did you determine that she had been at 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.000 Century Century twenty one, the department store down there? How 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.800 to tape video security tape of snay hash shopping and 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.680 that was the night before I think it was early 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.600 evening on the tent and she was in there. On 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.640 the tape, she's with another girl. This is disputed, but 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.080 snay Haa had. On many occasions she would stay over 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.640 at friends houses because Ron was working and things like that, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.760 so it was not unusual for her to not be home. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.080 But the information I received was that she always would 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.160 come home early in the morning. Now here's Ellen Winner 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.120 the Guardian Adviteum, Mr Gallant, I understand that one of 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.440 the areas of investigation you or your company made was 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.320 to inquire whether she might have stayed at the Millennium 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.000 Hotel on the evening in question. Yeah, what was the 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.120 purpose of making that investigation. The purpose of that investigation 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.400 was we had placed her in Century twenty one shopping, 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.279 so we figured, well, if she came out of Century 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.000 twenty one, maybe she went across the street and went 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.440 into the bar room there, into the lounge and got 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.080 a drink. It was a warm evening, and why not. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.719 So we went in there, we interviewed all of the 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.440 bartenders and showed her picture and it was just a 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:06.839 I'll tell you what. It was, a lead that was 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.560 in the area. It was a close lead, and that's 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.640 why I took it. When you say a close lead, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.120 right next to Century twenty one. It was in the 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.200 area where she lived. I wanted to know if she 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.120 frequented that area, that hotel, which she did not. They 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.599 didn't remember her. I think I spoke to four bartenders, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.360 and if anybody knows them, the bartenders would know. Did 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.680 you inquire about whether she had taken a room at 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.520 the hotel? Couldn't get that information. No, you inquired but 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.040 couldn't get an answer. When you were initially hired, was 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.680 your job to find her or was your job to 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:44.520 determine that she had died in the World Trade Center? Well, 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.080 when Mr Lieberman first came, there was no set belief 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.919 other than that they lived in the World Trade Center area. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.120 He came home, she wasn't there. All her valuables were 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.840 in the apartment. So I don't know if you can 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.599 say that we started out with any preconception. Ster Lieberman 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.000 came and said, I've done this, I want to expand it. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.640 I want to cover every base. I want to make 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.720 sure that every area is covered to find her. Something 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.600 happened to her, She's not here, Let's look into it. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.800 I think we proceeded from that standpoint, not with any 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.840 preconceived notion as to what happened, And as far as 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.080 her staying at the hotel. I mean her apartment was 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:26.239 across the street. It was nearby, but not literally across 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.120 the street. So you know, I spoke to the bartenders 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.800 more than trying to determine if she took a room 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.960 or not. There was a history of she had a 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:40.520 history of some alcohol, significant alcohol use. Am I correct? 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.040 She is correct? I don't know if I would say that. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.280 Do you know why she was fired from her previous job? 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.880 Issues with substance abuse and tardiness. With respect to the 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.960 computer search that you mentioned, as I read your reports, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.520 there was a certain point that you went to in 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.200 the computer search and then and there was a possibility 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:06.320 for a further search being done. Yeah, And am I correct? Well, 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.640 was the second layer of the search done? The second look? 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.360 When you say, let me ask the question, go ahead, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.200 what was searched? What wasn't searched in terms of the 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:21.920 possibilities here? Okay? What was searched were her emails? What 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.680 were her private conversations with people on this machine we 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.320 were looking for? Um, I spoke with my friend in 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.720 Italy and I'm going to go to Italy and paint 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.480 and I can't wait to get out of here. And 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.280 I'm not going to tell anybody we were looking for 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.560 something like that. We found nothing, no indication that she 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.280 was fed up with life in the area, her job, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.720 her personal life, no indication of that, and no indication 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.880 of that with interviews with her family or anything like that. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.199 I believe they were planning activities in the near future. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.560 And this is just not indicative of an investigation of 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.960 somebody who's I'm going to plan activities. I'm not just 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.439 going to pick up in leave and then what further 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.120 searches could have been done? I'm trying to tax my 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.760 memory here. What further searches. We're talking about a computer. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.120 You can do extensive searches on a computer. You know what, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.040 I'm drawing a blank here. It was something that was 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.600 you know, I don't recall. Maybe Ron remembers what it was, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.440 but it was not something. It was not a lead. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.960 Let's say this. When we conducted this investigation, we went 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.560 from lead to lead to lead. That computer did not 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.400 give us any leads, and that's how we would do it. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.800 We didn't get any leads out of that computer. Okay. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.319 And then with respect to the century twenty one investigation, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.439 my understanding is you spoke to a saleswoman who actually 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.600 remembers Miss Phillips shopping there. Yes, was it from the 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.360 saleswoman or from the film or from both that drew 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.400 your attention to the fact that there may have been 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.320 a companion. Actually, I think it was the sales girl. 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.120 I don't think it was the video. The video we 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.400 have Snayhaw in I think was a clothes rack. I 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.959 don't think that the girl was with her in the video. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.600 We have a statement by witness Sonya Mora, the shoe 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.360 sales woman. I interviewed this girl and what first came out. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.440 The girl said, oh, for sure, she was with this 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.319 other girl. Then I interviewed her. It's possible snay Ha 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.520 was with her. It's possible that she had met She's 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.040 a friendly girl, so it's possible that they had been 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:33.040 shopping together and became friends. Then I'm not sure. Goant 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.360 is positing that maybe snay Ha met a random woman 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.920 at Century one and they started shopping together, which okay, 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.480 I could never find that girl, and I don't think 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.559 we had video of that girl, which kind of because 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.719 I think the shopping in the dress area afterwards the 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.920 shoe area, and we don't have that girl with snay 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.000 shopping in that area. Were you able to obtain the 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.560 information about other customers who made purchases immediately before or 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.200 immediately after Miss Philip did? No. You said that it 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.440 was not uncommon for her to spend the evening away 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.280 and then she would generally come back the next morning. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.040 Deltigue the attorney referee, And you said, you've got no 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.200 leads to show she was outside of her neighborhood. So 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.360 does that mean that all of the people that you 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.560 know of that she would have spent the night with 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.640 also lived in her neighborhood. She was friendly with a 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.000 couple of people at the hospital. She was really friendly with. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.800 I believe with her brother's girlfriend or wife. She was 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.320 friendly with her. I think she lived in the area, 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.560 not too far. They all lived in the neighborhood. Her neighborhood, Yeah, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.480 And I think there were a couple of clubs that 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.040 she had gone to at some point. We went up 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.480 there and they had not seen her. You said you 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.920 went up there, What do you mean, approached people, bartender's patrons. 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.080 No one had seen her. Where is up there? How 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:57.840 far away was it? Maybe what ten blocks? Maybe not 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.680 too far? I think there was a club's maybe Ron 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.400 and her had gone to or they had been to before. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.400 Something no leads. And when you looked at her emails, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.359 did you get to interview everybody who was a recipient 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.920 of her emails? It was mostly her family, mostly her family. 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.400 We interviewed everybody. Any name that we ever came across, 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.439 we interviewed. I don't think there was anyone who did 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.000 not want to talk to us. Nobody we couldn't find. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.120 And you said she was planning future activities. Do you 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.080 remember what those activities were. I think it was a 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.959 wedding or something, a friend's wedding, some sort of function, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.840 family function, and I know she'd been involved in that. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.439 She talked about it, she was looking forward to it. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.079 I don't know it was some family function. And then 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.280 earlier you talked about her i D and glasses and 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.000 things you would expect somebody to have would still be 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.520 in the area. Could you just elaborate on that a 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.600 bit got that from Mr Lieberman. Her glasses, her license. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.520 I knew she couldn't see very well, so her glasses 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.000 were I think her apartment, her I D, the normal 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.880 things you would need to function outside were in her neighborhood. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.800 In her apartment, I believe. Right. So you're saying that 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.280 she went out without her glasses and without her wallet. Yes, 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.319 actually I believed she used Ron's credit card to make 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.920 the purchase at Century twenty one. She didn't even have 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.040 her own. I d s she had his credit card. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.440 Did she wear contact lenses? As far as you know, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.760 I believe she did. Did you speak to the people 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.080 at Dr phillips new job on Staten Island? No? I 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:36.240 did not speak to them. No. NYPD Detective Richard Stark did. However, 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:41.120 on September two thousand one, Stark visited St. Vincent's Hospital 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.840 and interviewed Snayhouse boss Dr Susan Grossman. Grossman told Stark 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.160 that she last spoke to Snaya on September seven, two 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:54.240 thousand one, four days before nine eleven. Strangely and coincidentally, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.880 Grossman's husband, Jeff gross is the co founder of a 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.440 Staten Island commune called Ghanas, which critics describe as a 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.360 sex cult. In two thousand six, according to The New 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.320 York Post, gross was allegedly shot by a woman who 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.200 claimed she had been forced to quote sleep with midgets 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.400 and engaged in lesbian sex. An X member told the 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.120 Post that the commune was quote a freaky mix of 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:21.840 weird characters, sexual shenanigans, prescription drug use, and hair brained psychology. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:26.400 Grossman didn't respond to multiple interview requests. It's unclear Snay, however, 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.520 visited the commune. Grossman was her boss for only ten 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.000 weeks before nine eleven. There's also a comment and one 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.880 of the reports that the investigation revealed Dr Philip to 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.840 be a very complex woman. I'm quoting now quote a 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.880 very complex woman who appeared to present different characteristics as 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.920 a response to different people in situations. Could you explain 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.960 what you meant by that she was a complex person. 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.960 She could like at the hospital, she had all different 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.800 layers of friends. She could be very friendly with the 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.800 chief surgeon. On the same token she could be fighting 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.960 with one of her interns, and then she could be 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.160 friendly with the girl in medical records. This type of 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:10.400 thing that she wasn't like consistent. She would go out, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.160 she would come home. I think that conversations with Ron 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.320 would say, you know, look here, look at her friends, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.120 not just her intern friends, but someone else at work. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.400 She was friendly with everyone. She wasn't in a set. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.440 I only deal with this type of individual thing. She'll 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.920 be friendly with everybody, whereas the common thing was, I'm 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.960 a doctor, I'm going to hang around with my doctor friends. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.280 I'm not going to be friends to this person who 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.560 works in the boiler room, this type of thing. But 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.480 she would babysit. I think that sometimes she watched doctor's 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.880 kids for a short while, which you know, this is 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.720 a a very not what you would imagine as a 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.360 doctor would be. Do you know how many people lived 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.080 in the buildings she lived in? How many apartments there were, 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.680 how many units? It's a big building, it's big. Yeah, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.040 that's one down on we're talking Battery Park. So the 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.800 doorman couldn't positively identify her through that video, the video 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.720 of a woman exiting the lobby of Snayhouse apartment building 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:22.000 at three am on nine eleven, right before the attacks began. No, no, no, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.400 And you said that she sometimes stated at her brother's 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.280 you didn't know if this is a friend, girlfriend or 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.040 wife at night. It was his brother's wife, girlfriend, just 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.000 whatever you know from your memory. I don't remember, okay. 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.560 And did she also live in the same neighborhood as that. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.960 I believe she lived pretty close, did she? Yeah, you 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.120 don't know how close, and she didn't have any lead 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.840 as to where she might have been that night. No, 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:19.080 here again, it's Mark Bogatin, Ron Lieberman's attorney, And Ron, 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.760 when was the last time you saw sna It was 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.720 on the morning of September two and one. Now, before 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.480 we get to the events of September tenth and the 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.520 eleventh and their aftermath, I'd like to ask you there's 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.640 been a testimony, at least through the investigator from Mr Gallant, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.160 that Snaya did not spend the evening of the tenth 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.840 at home in the apartment. Can you tell us did 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.160 say I ever spend an evening away from the apartment 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.000 before before the tenth And can you also tell us 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.520 whether or not there was any practice between the two 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.959 of you in terms of either you or her or 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.800 both of you spending an evening away from the apartment 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:56.160 on occasion. Yes. Since Snaiha and I met being at school, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.960 we had a lot of friends together, and it was 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.800 even in Cargo. It was very common for us to 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.320 sleep over at friends house who lived in the area, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.000 either together or sometimes separately. We all knew basically the 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:13.159 same amount of people, sometimes different people. Snayhan i'd lived together, 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.200 but also respected each other's independence too, And also so 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.000 when we came to New York, it was very similar, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.359 like that, you made good friends sometimes instead of coming 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.200 home late, because we'd spend long times with our friends 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.120 we liked. Residency is tough. You really don't get out 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.960 very often, so when you actually get out, you want 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.400 to spend time with the people. These were all very 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.640 good people that we know, and sometimes Sna also, as 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.800 it's been said, she's an extrovert. She knew a lot 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.880 of people. She was an artist in her own right, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.359 and sometimes she'd meet people who are artists also, And 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.639 there have been a few occasions where people that I 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.720 didn't know that she stayed out, But it was definitely 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.560 a common practice, maybe a couple of times a month 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.480 that either we'd stay out together or you might stay 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.359 out alone sometimes when I was at work. She didn't 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.800 like to stay home by herself a lot, so her 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.320 brother lived close by, her cousin lived close by. Friends 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.639 of ours lived close by, so it was very common 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.399 for her to go stay at their house. And the 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.840 two of you have the same work schedules. Say on yourself, no, 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.320 can you please describe her work? Schedule to me. Sure 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.480 snay was much more on a nine to five job 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.840 with occasional calls. She was an internal medicine resident. I 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.560 was an emergency medicine resident, and so sometimes that means 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.840 I'm working overnight. Quite often start maybe eight nine o'clock 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.840 at night, and I'll work through to the next morning. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.960 So it was a very confusing schedule. I often got 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.520 my schedule in a couple of weeks before the preceding month, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.080 so it was very difficult. I'd try to write down 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.720 for her so she could know, but she would always 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.520 get confused. I'd show up and she'd say, I thought 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.560 you were working tonight. It was confusing for me and 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.600 confusing for her. Also, when she stayed out, would she 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.439 tell you in advance that you'd be spending the night out. No, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.720 sometimes it would just happen. This conflicts with what snay 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.280 House cousin Anu told Unsolved Mysteries in two thousand two. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.080 She's never just spent a night out without informing us. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.200 Where she is informing a husband with issues, It's never happened. 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.359 Why would this night be any different to me? The 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.639 discrepancy between what Ron testified to in court and what 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.040 an who told unsolved mysteries indicates that either snay House 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.119 family did not know her as well as they thought, 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.280 or they lied to the media. It was actually one 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.600 of our issues that I would always say, please leave 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.320 me a note, let me know where you're going to be. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.240 And it was getting better, but sometimes she would still, 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.840 you know, she would forget. And did you stay out 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.320 sometimes by yourself or as you said, you would work 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.320 at night? I also would sometimes stay out by myself 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.880 at friends holmes. And when Snayha did stay out in fact, 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:55.719 how often would you say that she stayed out from 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.200 the apartment and spent the night outside of the apartment. 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.440 I would say at least a couple of times a month, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.840 and that was regular practice through the course of the marriage. Yeah, 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.639 you've told us on occasion you and stay Hot together 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.000 would spend the night away from the apartment, maybe at 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.760 a friend's house. How often would that happen? I think 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.159 in about a month's time. Usually it's a few times, 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.480 if it's together or not, it would vary. Sometimes it 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.320 would be more than that too. So and when stay 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.720 how did spend the evening away from the apartment? What 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.080 was her practice in terms of returning to the apartment. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.920 Always she had come back early in the morning, early 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.840 the next morning, sometime between seven and nine. That was 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.240 her usual pattern. Did she ever stay out and just 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:38.359 not come back the next day and come back a 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.880 day or two later? Did that ever happen? You mean 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.920 to be away for a couple of days. No, always 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.320 snay haw came back always the next morning, always the 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.160 next morning. Now, who are some of the people that 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.000 you've told us some of the people she did spend 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.000 the evening with, or rather would spend or have on occasion. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.560 Can you please tell us who those people are? Her 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.520 brother lived Espec at the time when we lived in 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.120 Battery Park City. Her brother lived basically across the West 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.320 Side Highway, and her cousin lived on John Street. Those 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.639 were probably the more common people. We had another friend 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.840 who lived on the Upper west Side. And again, like 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.320 I said, there was definitely sometimes that she would meet 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.359 people that I didn't know, and she'd be out. How 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.640 would you learn that she'd been with this person if 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.479 you didn't know in advance, how would you learn it? Well, 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.280 obviously the next day she'd come back and I'd say, 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.359 snay haa, what happened? And she goes, oh, I didn't 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.719 know you were going to be home tonight, and I'd say, so, 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.720 where were you? She says. I remember one time she 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.000 met a woman who was an artist and they went 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.919 back to the place and actually painted all night. She 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.159 came back full of paint. Once in a while, that 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.560 would happen, or she would listen to bands playing all night. 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.720 Sometimes you mean a band and a club or something. Yeah, 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.679 there's a place a few bars close by we go to. 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.720 There's a bar. We'd go, laid back places, very casual. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.639 Sometimes she would go and sometimes you'd go together, and 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.240