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Speaker 1: From My Heart Radio. This is Missing on nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: the story of one woman who vanished on the eve

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Speaker 1: of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: John Wallzac. My name is del Tige. I'm the principal

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Speaker 1: court attorney referee assigned to this matter. I'm at microphone

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Speaker 1: one and before us today as an absentee proceeding in

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Speaker 1: the estate of Snaeja and Philip Foul number three five

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Speaker 1: four two foul than four Surrogate's Court of the State

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Speaker 1: of New York, County of New York. Snay House family

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Speaker 1: is here today nine and eighty nine days after nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: fighting for a death certificate recognizing that snay Ha died

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Speaker 1: on nine eleven at the World Trade Center. Representing the

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Speaker 1: court is Deltigue. An attorney referee representing Snayhouse family is

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Speaker 1: Attorney Mark Bogutin, and representing snay Ha in absentia is

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Speaker 1: Ellen Winner, the Guardian ad Ltem. Also present today are

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Speaker 1: Ron Lieberman say House husband Unshoe, Philip snay House, mom,

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Speaker 1: John Philip snay House younger brother, Ken Gallant, Ron's private investigator,

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Speaker 1: and Mark Freiberg, the attorney who represented snay haa before

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Speaker 1: nine eleven. Now, unfortunately we don't have tapes of the hearing,

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Speaker 1: so instead we're using voice actors to recreate it. What

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Speaker 1: you're about to hear is verbatim testimony, edited very lightly

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Speaker 1: for clarity and flow. Listen closely. It's the only time

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Speaker 1: you'll get to hear directly from certain people like private

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Speaker 1: investigator Can Galant, who have otherwise never spoken publicly about

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Speaker 1: this case. You'll hear me interject occasionally. We start with

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Speaker 1: Attorney Mark Boguten, Mr Gallant, can you please tell us

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Speaker 1: how you're currently employed. I'm a private investigator at Silverman

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Speaker 1: Associates in New York. And can you tell us about

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Speaker 1: your professional background and prior experience before I was a

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Speaker 1: special agent of the FBI for twenty three years in

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Speaker 1: New York. And when did you retire from that position

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Speaker 1: end of and what unit were you assigned to when

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Speaker 1: you retired at the end of ninety nine? Special operations

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Speaker 1: and what is that about? What does that entail? Special

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Speaker 1: operations would be dealing with white collar and drugs and

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Speaker 1: organized crime, special investigations, undercover units, things like that. And

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Speaker 1: since retiring from the FBI, have you been employed as

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Speaker 1: a private investigator? Yes, and have there come a point

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Speaker 1: in time when you were attained by Ron Lieberman in

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Speaker 1: connection with I was retained by Mr Lieberman and his family.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after the nine eleven incident. He came to our

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Speaker 1: office and related a story that his wife had been missing.

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Speaker 1: He had done quite an extensive search he himself initiated,

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Speaker 1: but he wanted more. He wanted to expand the search

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Speaker 1: and gain more knowledge and police liaison to try and

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Speaker 1: determine the facts of where she was or what happened,

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Speaker 1: and any other information he could gather. And can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what did you do in connection with the investigation.

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Speaker 1: The first thing we did was Mr Lieberman had done

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Speaker 1: a lot himself with posters and talked to friends and everything.

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Speaker 1: The first thing we did was liaison with the police

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Speaker 1: and get a hold of her computer. And as the

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Speaker 1: investigation went on, we did an extensive search of her computer.

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Speaker 1: What we were basically looking for is we were trying

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Speaker 1: to recreate where she was. Secondly, we wanted to determine

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Speaker 1: if she had mentioned to anyone any intention she had

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Speaker 1: of leaving going anywhere, traveling anywhere. After that, we were

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Speaker 1: going to expand the circle as to her activities where

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Speaker 1: she could have gone, how she could have gotten there,

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Speaker 1: who she could have told, who she would have gone with.

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Speaker 1: So with this type of investigation in mind, we spoke

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Speaker 1: to coworkers, friends, family, bar room areas in the clubs

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Speaker 1: where she could have been. We determined that she was

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Speaker 1: last seen in the area of Century twenty one, which

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Speaker 1: is right where she lived. And we determined that we

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Speaker 1: could never place her any further than where she lived

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Speaker 1: in that six block area. She had no indication she

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Speaker 1: was going to go to any place. She had no

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Speaker 1: indication that she was going to travel. There was no

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Speaker 1: indication that there was any strife in her life other

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Speaker 1: than that, but that she had friends at work. I

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Speaker 1: spoke to people she worked with up there. They had

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Speaker 1: glowing reports about her. And I could not determine that

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Speaker 1: she was any place but near her home prior to that.

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Speaker 1: And how did you determine that she had been at

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Speaker 1: Century Century twenty one, the department store down there? How

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Speaker 1: to tape video security tape of snay hash shopping and

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Speaker 1: that was the night before I think it was early

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Speaker 1: evening on the tent and she was in there. On

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Speaker 1: the tape, she's with another girl. This is disputed, but

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Speaker 1: snay Haa had. On many occasions she would stay over

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Speaker 1: at friends houses because Ron was working and things like that,

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Speaker 1: so it was not unusual for her to not be home.

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Speaker 1: But the information I received was that she always would

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Speaker 1: come home early in the morning. Now here's Ellen Winner

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Speaker 1: the Guardian Adviteum, Mr Gallant, I understand that one of

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Speaker 1: the areas of investigation you or your company made was

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Speaker 1: to inquire whether she might have stayed at the Millennium

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Speaker 1: Hotel on the evening in question. Yeah, what was the

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Speaker 1: purpose of making that investigation. The purpose of that investigation

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Speaker 1: was we had placed her in Century twenty one shopping,

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Speaker 1: so we figured, well, if she came out of Century

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Speaker 1: twenty one, maybe she went across the street and went

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Speaker 1: into the bar room there, into the lounge and got

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Speaker 1: a drink. It was a warm evening, and why not.

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Speaker 1: So we went in there, we interviewed all of the

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Speaker 1: bartenders and showed her picture and it was just a

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. It was, a lead that was

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Speaker 1: in the area. It was a close lead, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I took it. When you say a close lead,

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Speaker 1: right next to Century twenty one. It was in the

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Speaker 1: area where she lived. I wanted to know if she

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Speaker 1: frequented that area, that hotel, which she did not. They

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Speaker 1: didn't remember her. I think I spoke to four bartenders,

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Speaker 1: and if anybody knows them, the bartenders would know. Did

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Speaker 1: you inquire about whether she had taken a room at

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Speaker 1: the hotel? Couldn't get that information. No, you inquired but

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Speaker 1: couldn't get an answer. When you were initially hired, was

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Speaker 1: your job to find her or was your job to

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Speaker 1: determine that she had died in the World Trade Center? Well,

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Speaker 1: when Mr Lieberman first came, there was no set belief

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Speaker 1: other than that they lived in the World Trade Center area.

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Speaker 1: He came home, she wasn't there. All her valuables were

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Speaker 1: in the apartment. So I don't know if you can

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Speaker 1: say that we started out with any preconception. Ster Lieberman

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Speaker 1: came and said, I've done this, I want to expand it.

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Speaker 1: I want to cover every base. I want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that every area is covered to find her. Something

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Speaker 1: happened to her, She's not here, Let's look into it.

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Speaker 1: I think we proceeded from that standpoint, not with any

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Speaker 1: preconceived notion as to what happened, And as far as

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Speaker 1: her staying at the hotel. I mean her apartment was

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Speaker 1: across the street. It was nearby, but not literally across

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Speaker 1: the street. So you know, I spoke to the bartenders

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Speaker 1: more than trying to determine if she took a room

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Speaker 1: or not. There was a history of she had a

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Speaker 1: history of some alcohol, significant alcohol use. Am I correct?

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Speaker 1: She is correct? I don't know if I would say that.

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Speaker 1: Do you know why she was fired from her previous job?

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Speaker 1: Issues with substance abuse and tardiness. With respect to the

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Speaker 1: computer search that you mentioned, as I read your reports,

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Speaker 1: there was a certain point that you went to in

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Speaker 1: the computer search and then and there was a possibility

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Speaker 1: for a further search being done. Yeah, And am I correct? Well,

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Speaker 1: was the second layer of the search done? The second look?

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Speaker 1: When you say, let me ask the question, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: what was searched? What wasn't searched in terms of the

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Speaker 1: possibilities here? Okay? What was searched were her emails? What

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Speaker 1: were her private conversations with people on this machine we

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Speaker 1: were looking for? Um, I spoke with my friend in

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Speaker 1: Italy and I'm going to go to Italy and paint

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Speaker 1: and I can't wait to get out of here. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell anybody we were looking for

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Speaker 1: something like that. We found nothing, no indication that she

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Speaker 1: was fed up with life in the area, her job,

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Speaker 1: her personal life, no indication of that, and no indication

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Speaker 1: of that with interviews with her family or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I believe they were planning activities in the near future.

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Speaker 1: And this is just not indicative of an investigation of

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Speaker 1: somebody who's I'm going to plan activities. I'm not just

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Speaker 1: going to pick up in leave and then what further

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Speaker 1: searches could have been done? I'm trying to tax my

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Speaker 1: memory here. What further searches. We're talking about a computer.

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Speaker 1: You can do extensive searches on a computer. You know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm drawing a blank here. It was something that was

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't recall. Maybe Ron remembers what it was,

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Speaker 1: but it was not something. It was not a lead.

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Speaker 1: Let's say this. When we conducted this investigation, we went

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Speaker 1: from lead to lead to lead. That computer did not

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Speaker 1: give us any leads, and that's how we would do it.

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Speaker 1: We didn't get any leads out of that computer. Okay.

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Speaker 1: And then with respect to the century twenty one investigation,

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Speaker 1: my understanding is you spoke to a saleswoman who actually

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Speaker 1: remembers Miss Phillips shopping there. Yes, was it from the

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Speaker 1: saleswoman or from the film or from both that drew

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Speaker 1: your attention to the fact that there may have been

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Speaker 1: a companion. Actually, I think it was the sales girl.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was the video. The video we

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Speaker 1: have Snayhaw in I think was a clothes rack. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that the girl was with her in the video.

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Speaker 1: We have a statement by witness Sonya Mora, the shoe

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Speaker 1: sales woman. I interviewed this girl and what first came out.

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Speaker 1: The girl said, oh, for sure, she was with this

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Speaker 1: other girl. Then I interviewed her. It's possible snay Ha

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Speaker 1: was with her. It's possible that she had met She's

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Speaker 1: a friendly girl, so it's possible that they had been

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Speaker 1: shopping together and became friends. Then I'm not sure. Goant

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Speaker 1: is positing that maybe snay Ha met a random woman

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Speaker 1: at Century one and they started shopping together, which okay,

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Speaker 1: I could never find that girl, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: we had video of that girl, which kind of because

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Speaker 1: I think the shopping in the dress area afterwards the

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Speaker 1: shoe area, and we don't have that girl with snay

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Speaker 1: shopping in that area. Were you able to obtain the

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Speaker 1: information about other customers who made purchases immediately before or

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Speaker 1: immediately after Miss Philip did? No. You said that it

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Speaker 1: was not uncommon for her to spend the evening away

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Speaker 1: and then she would generally come back the next morning.

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Speaker 1: Deltigue the attorney referee, And you said, you've got no

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Speaker 1: leads to show she was outside of her neighborhood. So

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Speaker 1: does that mean that all of the people that you

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Speaker 1: know of that she would have spent the night with

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Speaker 1: also lived in her neighborhood. She was friendly with a

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Speaker 1: couple of people at the hospital. She was really friendly with.

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Speaker 1: I believe with her brother's girlfriend or wife. She was

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Speaker 1: friendly with her. I think she lived in the area,

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Speaker 1: not too far. They all lived in the neighborhood. Her neighborhood, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think there were a couple of clubs that

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Speaker 1: she had gone to at some point. We went up

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Speaker 1: there and they had not seen her. You said you

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Speaker 1: went up there, What do you mean, approached people, bartender's patrons.

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Speaker 1: No one had seen her. Where is up there? How

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Speaker 1: far away was it? Maybe what ten blocks? Maybe not

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Speaker 1: too far? I think there was a club's maybe Ron

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Speaker 1: and her had gone to or they had been to before.

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Speaker 1: Something no leads. And when you looked at her emails,

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Speaker 1: did you get to interview everybody who was a recipient

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Speaker 1: of her emails? It was mostly her family, mostly her family.

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Speaker 1: We interviewed everybody. Any name that we ever came across,

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Speaker 1: we interviewed. I don't think there was anyone who did

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Speaker 1: not want to talk to us. Nobody we couldn't find.

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Speaker 1: And you said she was planning future activities. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember what those activities were. I think it was a

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Speaker 1: wedding or something, a friend's wedding, some sort of function,

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Speaker 1: family function, and I know she'd been involved in that.

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Speaker 1: She talked about it, she was looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know it was some family function. And then

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Speaker 1: earlier you talked about her i D and glasses and

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Speaker 1: things you would expect somebody to have would still be

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Speaker 1: in the area. Could you just elaborate on that a

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Speaker 1: bit got that from Mr Lieberman. Her glasses, her license.

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Speaker 1: I knew she couldn't see very well, so her glasses

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Speaker 1: were I think her apartment, her I D, the normal

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Speaker 1: things you would need to function outside were in her neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: In her apartment, I believe. Right. So you're saying that

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Speaker 1: she went out without her glasses and without her wallet. Yes,

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Speaker 1: actually I believed she used Ron's credit card to make

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Speaker 1: the purchase at Century twenty one. She didn't even have

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Speaker 1: her own. I d s she had his credit card.

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Speaker 1: Did she wear contact lenses? As far as you know,

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Speaker 1: I believe she did. Did you speak to the people

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Speaker 1: at Dr phillips new job on Staten Island? No? I

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Speaker 1: did not speak to them. No. NYPD Detective Richard Stark did. However,

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Speaker 1: on September two thousand one, Stark visited St. Vincent's Hospital

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Speaker 1: and interviewed Snayhouse boss Dr Susan Grossman. Grossman told Stark

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Speaker 1: that she last spoke to Snaya on September seven, two

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Speaker 1: thousand one, four days before nine eleven. Strangely and coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: Grossman's husband, Jeff gross is the co founder of a

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Speaker 1: Staten Island commune called Ghanas, which critics describe as a

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Speaker 1: sex cult. In two thousand six, according to The New

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Speaker 1: York Post, gross was allegedly shot by a woman who

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00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,200
Speaker 1: claimed she had been forced to quote sleep with midgets

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Speaker 1: and engaged in lesbian sex. An X member told the

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Speaker 1: Post that the commune was quote a freaky mix of

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00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 1: weird characters, sexual shenanigans, prescription drug use, and hair brained psychology.

246
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 1: Grossman didn't respond to multiple interview requests. It's unclear Snay, however,

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Speaker 1: visited the commune. Grossman was her boss for only ten

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Speaker 1: weeks before nine eleven. There's also a comment and one

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Speaker 1: of the reports that the investigation revealed Dr Philip to

250
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Speaker 1: be a very complex woman. I'm quoting now quote a

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Speaker 1: very complex woman who appeared to present different characteristics as

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Speaker 1: a response to different people in situations. Could you explain

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Speaker 1: what you meant by that she was a complex person.

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Speaker 1: She could like at the hospital, she had all different

255
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 1: layers of friends. She could be very friendly with the

256
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Speaker 1: chief surgeon. On the same token she could be fighting

257
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Speaker 1: with one of her interns, and then she could be

258
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 1: friendly with the girl in medical records. This type of

259
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Speaker 1: thing that she wasn't like consistent. She would go out,

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Speaker 1: she would come home. I think that conversations with Ron

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00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 1: would say, you know, look here, look at her friends,

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Speaker 1: not just her intern friends, but someone else at work.

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Speaker 1: She was friendly with everyone. She wasn't in a set.

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Speaker 1: I only deal with this type of individual thing. She'll

265
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Speaker 1: be friendly with everybody, whereas the common thing was, I'm

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Speaker 1: a doctor, I'm going to hang around with my doctor friends.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be friends to this person who

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Speaker 1: works in the boiler room, this type of thing. But

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00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: she would babysit. I think that sometimes she watched doctor's

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Speaker 1: kids for a short while, which you know, this is

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Speaker 1: a a very not what you would imagine as a

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Speaker 1: doctor would be. Do you know how many people lived

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Speaker 1: in the buildings she lived in? How many apartments there were,

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Speaker 1: how many units? It's a big building, it's big. Yeah,

275
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 1: that's one down on we're talking Battery Park. So the

276
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Speaker 1: doorman couldn't positively identify her through that video, the video

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Speaker 1: of a woman exiting the lobby of Snayhouse apartment building

278
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Speaker 1: at three am on nine eleven, right before the attacks began. No, no, no,

279
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Speaker 1: And you said that she sometimes stated at her brother's

280
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Speaker 1: you didn't know if this is a friend, girlfriend or

281
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Speaker 1: wife at night. It was his brother's wife, girlfriend, just

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Speaker 1: whatever you know from your memory. I don't remember, okay.

283
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Speaker 1: And did she also live in the same neighborhood as that.

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Speaker 1: I believe she lived pretty close, did she? Yeah, you

285
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Speaker 1: don't know how close, and she didn't have any lead

286
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Speaker 1: as to where she might have been that night. No,

287
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 1: here again, it's Mark Bogatin, Ron Lieberman's attorney, And Ron,

288
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: when was the last time you saw sna It was

289
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: on the morning of September two and one. Now, before

290
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: we get to the events of September tenth and the

291
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: eleventh and their aftermath, I'd like to ask you there's

292
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,640
Speaker 1: been a testimony, at least through the investigator from Mr Gallant,

293
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,160
Speaker 1: that Snaya did not spend the evening of the tenth

294
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Speaker 1: at home in the apartment. Can you tell us did

295
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,160
Speaker 1: say I ever spend an evening away from the apartment

296
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Speaker 1: before before the tenth And can you also tell us

297
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 1: whether or not there was any practice between the two

298
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Speaker 1: of you in terms of either you or her or

299
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 1: both of you spending an evening away from the apartment

300
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,160
Speaker 1: on occasion. Yes. Since Snaiha and I met being at school,

301
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 1: we had a lot of friends together, and it was

302
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 1: even in Cargo. It was very common for us to

303
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 1: sleep over at friends house who lived in the area,

304
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: either together or sometimes separately. We all knew basically the

305
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,159
Speaker 1: same amount of people, sometimes different people. Snayhan i'd lived together,

306
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 1: but also respected each other's independence too, And also so

307
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 1: when we came to New York, it was very similar,

308
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 1: like that, you made good friends sometimes instead of coming

309
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 1: home late, because we'd spend long times with our friends

310
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 1: we liked. Residency is tough. You really don't get out

311
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Speaker 1: very often, so when you actually get out, you want

312
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 1: to spend time with the people. These were all very

313
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 1: good people that we know, and sometimes Sna also, as

314
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 1: it's been said, she's an extrovert. She knew a lot

315
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Speaker 1: of people. She was an artist in her own right,

316
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 1: and sometimes she'd meet people who are artists also, And

317
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Speaker 1: there have been a few occasions where people that I

318
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: didn't know that she stayed out, But it was definitely

319
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 1: a common practice, maybe a couple of times a month

320
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 1: that either we'd stay out together or you might stay

321
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: out alone sometimes when I was at work. She didn't

322
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: like to stay home by herself a lot, so her

323
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 1: brother lived close by, her cousin lived close by. Friends

324
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 1: of ours lived close by, so it was very common

325
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 1: for her to go stay at their house. And the

326
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: two of you have the same work schedules. Say on yourself, no,

327
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: can you please describe her work? Schedule to me. Sure

328
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: snay was much more on a nine to five job

329
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: with occasional calls. She was an internal medicine resident. I

330
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: was an emergency medicine resident, and so sometimes that means

331
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Speaker 1: I'm working overnight. Quite often start maybe eight nine o'clock

332
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Speaker 1: at night, and I'll work through to the next morning.

333
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Speaker 1: So it was a very confusing schedule. I often got

334
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Speaker 1: my schedule in a couple of weeks before the preceding month,

335
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 1: so it was very difficult. I'd try to write down

336
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: for her so she could know, but she would always

337
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: get confused. I'd show up and she'd say, I thought

338
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: you were working tonight. It was confusing for me and

339
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: confusing for her. Also, when she stayed out, would she

340
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 1: tell you in advance that you'd be spending the night out. No,

341
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: sometimes it would just happen. This conflicts with what snay

342
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: House cousin Anu told Unsolved Mysteries in two thousand two.

343
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: She's never just spent a night out without informing us.

344
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: Where she is informing a husband with issues, It's never happened.

345
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: Why would this night be any different to me? The

346
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 1: discrepancy between what Ron testified to in court and what

347
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: an who told unsolved mysteries indicates that either snay House

348
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: family did not know her as well as they thought,

349
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: or they lied to the media. It was actually one

350
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: of our issues that I would always say, please leave

351
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: me a note, let me know where you're going to be.

352
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: And it was getting better, but sometimes she would still,

353
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: you know, she would forget. And did you stay out

354
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Speaker 1: sometimes by yourself or as you said, you would work

355
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: at night? I also would sometimes stay out by myself

356
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 1: at friends holmes. And when Snayha did stay out in fact,

357
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,719
Speaker 1: how often would you say that she stayed out from

358
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: the apartment and spent the night outside of the apartment.

359
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: I would say at least a couple of times a month,

360
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: and that was regular practice through the course of the marriage. Yeah,

361
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: you've told us on occasion you and stay Hot together

362
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: would spend the night away from the apartment, maybe at

363
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: a friend's house. How often would that happen? I think

364
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: in about a month's time. Usually it's a few times,

365
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: if it's together or not, it would vary. Sometimes it

366
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: would be more than that too. So and when stay

367
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: how did spend the evening away from the apartment? What

368
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: was her practice in terms of returning to the apartment.

369
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: Always she had come back early in the morning, early

370
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: the next morning, sometime between seven and nine. That was

371
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: her usual pattern. Did she ever stay out and just

372
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: not come back the next day and come back a

373
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 1: day or two later? Did that ever happen? You mean

374
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: to be away for a couple of days. No, always

375
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: snay haw came back always the next morning, always the

376
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: next morning. Now, who are some of the people that

377
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: you've told us some of the people she did spend

378
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: the evening with, or rather would spend or have on occasion.

379
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: Can you please tell us who those people are? Her

380
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: brother lived Espec at the time when we lived in

381
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: Battery Park City. Her brother lived basically across the West

382
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: Side Highway, and her cousin lived on John Street. Those

383
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: were probably the more common people. We had another friend

384
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: who lived on the Upper west Side. And again, like

385
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: I said, there was definitely sometimes that she would meet

386
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: people that I didn't know, and she'd be out. How

387
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: would you learn that she'd been with this person if

388
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: you didn't know in advance, how would you learn it? Well,

389
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: obviously the next day she'd come back and I'd say,

390
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: snay haa, what happened? And she goes, oh, I didn't

391
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 1: know you were going to be home tonight, and I'd say, so,

392
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: where were you? She says. I remember one time she

393
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: met a woman who was an artist and they went

394
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: back to the place and actually painted all night. She

395
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: came back full of paint. Once in a while, that

396
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: would happen, or she would listen to bands playing all night.

397
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes you mean a band and a club or something. Yeah,

398
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: there's a place a few bars close by we go to.

399
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: There's a bar. We'd go, laid back places, very casual.

400
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: Sometimes she would go and sometimes you'd go together, and

401
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: sometimes she'd come back and say she'd been at that

402
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 1: bar or that club. That's right now. How long had

403
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: you been married as of September ten two one at

404
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: that point, just about a year and a half. Can

405
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: you please describe for us the state of your relationship

406
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: at that point. Snay and I had been friends since

407
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: medical school. It was really an interesting connection between the

408
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: two of us. Our past family lives were very similar,

409
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: our interests were very similar. We're both artists. As much

410
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: as my wife is a painter and I'm a musician.

411
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: She's also a musician, so we play a lot. So

412
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: we were really great friends. We planned on having children together.

413
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: My wife was always talking about having babies, and if anything,

414
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: my reluctance was because I wanted to wait a little

415
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: bit to finish residency. In things you know, we had

416
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: planned to. We like to travel together. We take trips

417
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: together as well. We've been to India before together. We've

418
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: been to Europe together a few times. And even around

419
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: that time period, it was her birthday is October seven,

420
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: October seven, and so I was planning a trip to

421
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: take her to Europe around her birthday. I was going

422
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: to surprise her and I was going to talk to

423
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: her work about doing all these things also, so we

424
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: were extremely in love with each other and planning for

425
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: a great life. This is my wife's last year in residency,

426
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: and now all the hard work is finally going to

427
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: be finished and we could start to really spend a

428
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: lot of time together. So many times I'd go away

429
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: on call and we'd talk all the time on the phone.

430
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: It was difficult to be apart from each other, but

431
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: that was the residency. And when did her employement at

432
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: Cabrini end that When it was May of two thousand

433
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: and one, Well that was when she got noticed. She

434
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: actually continued working until our years, basically July to June.

435
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: So she worked until June and then she started her

436
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: new job in July. And what was her new job

437
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: that she started in July two thousand one. It's a

438
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: continuation of her old job. She was at St. Vincent's

439
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: Hospital on Staten Island. That was the reason we moved

440
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: down to Battery Park City so it could be closer

441
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: for her. She took the ferry to work, so it

442
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: was just a continuation. She was going to finish her

443
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: residency program at St. Vincent's. It was a very reputable hospital.

444
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: She liked the people there. What was her reaction to

445
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: her new employment. What was her state of mind at

446
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: the Staten Island Hospital. She loved it. She felt finally

447
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: she was in the place where she didn't have to

448
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: be judged. She liked Cabrini a lot in the beginning,

449
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: but it became difficult. There was so much prejudice against

450
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: her over there. Ron claimed that Cabrini discriminated against Naha

451
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: because she was Indian and a woman. Now you told

452
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: us you saw Snaha for the last time September, t

453
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: Can you tell us when on September ten and where

454
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: you saw her last? Tell us about that. We came

455
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: back from court that morning and we were with Mr

456
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Freiburg snay How's attorney. It was a very quick proceeding.

457
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 1: We came back home, we had a little bit of

458
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: probably got home around ten ten thirty, had a little

459
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: bit of breakfast. That's ten thirty in the morning, Mr

460
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: Lieberman in the morning on September and I left for work.

461
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I had to be at work by one o'clock and

462
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: I was taking the subway, so I left about eleven

463
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: thirty to give myself an hour and a half to

464
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: get there. So I kissed her goodbye. Actually I forgot

465
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: my keys and I got to go back in and

466
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: kissed her again, and then I left. And did you

467
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: tell you what our plans were for the day? Yeah?

468
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, we've been so busy with work the last

469
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: few weeks before that, we really didn't have time to

470
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: clean the house. It was getting a little bit dirty.

471
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: So she was planning on cleaning the house that day.

472
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: We'd started the day before, but obviously it was the

473
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: weekend and we were rollerblading together and doing other things.

474
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: So she was going to clean the house and she

475
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: had just got in some orchids from Hawaii that she

476
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: was very excited about the day before, she had taken

477
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: a whole roll of film just take the orchids in

478
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: different positions, so she was very excited about it. And

479
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: then she I guess maybe taking a walk or something.

480
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: And was there any particular reason the apartment was going

481
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: to be clean at that point? Did you have any

482
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: plans Our friends are coming over the next day on

483
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: the eleventh. We had plans with Snayo's cousin Anu and Rick.

484
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: They were going to come over for dinner that night

485
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: on the eleventh, so we wanted to clean the house

486
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: that we could prepare for them to come. And you

487
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: tell us, nay How is not working that day? Is

488
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: that correct? And when she scheduled to work the next

489
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: day eleven she wasn't. Her next work day would have

490
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: been the twelfth, I think the twelve. And just tell

491
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: us when did you come home? You said you left

492
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: for work about eleven thirty on the morning of the tenth.

493
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: Did you speak to snay Hu during the course of

494
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: that day. I think I called her, but I don't

495
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: think we actually ever spoke that day. And when did

496
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: you come home on the tenth or the next day,

497
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: the eleven. When did you come home? Well, I came

498
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: home the evening of the tenth, at about eleven thirty

499
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: at night. And was she home, No, she wasn't. And

500
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: again when I came home and she wasn't home, I

501
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: was expecting her to come home soon. But then again,

502
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: I also knew her brother and her had been in

503
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: a fight maybe a week before, and I knew she

504
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: was off the next day, so I thought that maybe

505
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: she was over there talking with her brother. I didn't

506
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: want to call if they were in the middle of

507
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: talking and getting the way. And I had to wake

508
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: up very early the next morning. I had to be

509
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: at work by eight o'clock in the morning, so I

510
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: had to go to bed. I was thinking she'd probably

511
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: come back slip in bed with me at night, which

512
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: she'd done before. And And what time did you wake up?

513
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: On the eleventh? The next morning I woke up. I

514
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: think I woke up about six in the morning. I

515
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: needed to catch a six thirty subway. She wasn't there.

516
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: She wasn't there. I was, of course, I was concerned,

517
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: so I was thinking, in my mind, I wish she

518
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: would have called me to let me know, but this

519
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: is kind of part of our pattern also, it's something

520
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: in our relationship that we're working on for her to

521
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: be able to inform when she was going to stay out.

522
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: But again, it wasn't the first time, and I didn't

523
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: get overly concerned. I had figured that she'd be back

524
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: the next morning, and even once I got after all

525
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: the things happened, I actually called back to the home

526
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: to see if she was home, but there was just

527
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: the answering machine was on where were you in the

528
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: trade center attack took place. I was at the hospital

529
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: in the Bronx at Jacoby and tell us what happened

530
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: after that. So after we got word that the building

531
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: was hit, the hospital went into an emergency condition. And

532
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: actually I'm an emergency room physician, so that was really

533
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: when I was called to work. And in my mind,

534
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: I didn't think that Snayhow would have been involved, so

535
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: I figured she'd either be at a hospital or some

536
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: station helping out, like many of the other doctors down

537
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: in Manhattan were. So I stayed. I tried to call home.

538
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: At first. I was able to leave a message saying Snayha,

539
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: I don't know where you are, but call me at

540
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: the hospital and I left the number so she could call.

541
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: She always forgot my phone numbers, so I left it

542
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: on the machine, and then of course the phone lines

543
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: went dead. Then I had to make a decision what

544
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: I was going to do, And of course at that moment,

545
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to stay and I'm going to wait,

546
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: because we expected thousands of casualties to come so about

547
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: I think it was about three o'clock in the afternoon

548
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: when we realized nobody was coming up. Since from ten

549
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: o'clock to three we were preparing, but nobody was coming.

550
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: I told my director, I said, you know, I haven't

551
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: heard from my wife yet. I want to make sure

552
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: everything's okay. I just want to go back down home.

553
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: I didn't realize what state Lower Manhattan was in, so

554
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: I took an ambulance. They were going down in Manhattan,

555
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: and I went down with them. In the meantime, I

556
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: had my cell phone. I was trying to call people.

557
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: I think I talked to her mother about three four

558
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: o'clock in the afternoon. She hadn't heard from anyone yet.

559
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: It was only later that afternoon that I actually realized

560
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: that her mother hadn't spoken to her, And then it

561
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: slowly started coming about. We didn't know where she was

562
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: the night before because I think she had heard from

563
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: my brother in law John, who said that he wasn't

564
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: with Snayha. I started calling around and nobody knew where

565
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: she was the night before. I was concerned because I

566
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: didn't know. Like I said, it's happened before that she's

567
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: been in places where I didn't know, but it was concerning.

568
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: It took me about maybe six or seven hours to

569
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: get down to my apartment that day. It's a big

570
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: saga to get down to actually get down to Battery

571
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: Park City. When I finally got down to my apartment,

572
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: it was locked. They locked. About what time of the

573
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: day are we talking about? What time was this? It's

574
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: close to about I think somewhere between nine and ten

575
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: o'clock at night. I got down in Manhattan about five,

576
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: and it took me a good four or five hours

577
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: to get down there to my apartment. And what happened

578
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: when you got into the apartment. Were you able to

579
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: get in? No? I couldn't get in. The building was

580
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: locked and there was a light on the third floor.

581
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: One of the other tenants happened to be there. I

582
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: happened to have my pocket light from work, and I

583
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: was flashing them. They came to the window and I said,

584
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: can you please go knock my door to see if

585
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: anybody was inside. I was afraid that maybe my wife

586
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: was inside under the bed. Frightened. They knocked on the

587
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: door and said there's no response. And then at that

588
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: point I didn't know what to do, and so what

589
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: I did I went and volunteered. I went and volunteered

590
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: down across the street from ground zero at the high school.

591
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: I forget what it was called. And I stayed there

592
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: until about two in the morning, and then I went

593
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: back to my friend's house who lived in the West Village,

594
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: and I stayed there overnight. When did you eventually get

595
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: back to your apartment the next morning? Now we're talking

596
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: about the morning of the twelfth, The morning of the twelfth. Yeah.

597
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: Part of my feeling about going to volunteer was that

598
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: I knew I could actually get I realized how hard

599
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: it was to gain access down there. And when I

600
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: went to go volunteer, I was given a badge, and

601
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: the badge allowed me access to go back down. So

602
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: I went back down and I was able actually to

603
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: walk around very freely down there. I went right back

604
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: to my apartment and it was open this time, and

605
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: I went upstairs. I went to the apartment. When I

606
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: got to the apartment, the only thing I saw was

607
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: dust everywhere in the apartment. We had two little cats,

608
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: and the footprints from my cats. There were no other

609
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: footprints inside the house besides the cats. I had my

610
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: digital camera and I took pictures of the apartment. Now,

611
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,239
Speaker 1: of course, I started getting worried. I was thinking, at

612
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: least by the night before, we would have heard from her.

613
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: So I started taking pictures of the apartment, and then

614
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: I started collecting things that were important. Phone books, her

615
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: phone book, my phone book, I had digital pictures of

616
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: snay Huh. My friends and I. Before I left, we

617
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: made a list of what to do. We felt we'd

618
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: make flyers be able to contact everybody. So that's basically

619
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: what I did. And did you inspect the apartment to

620
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: see whether anything was missing any of Snazz? Yeah. I

621
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: remember looking at the door to see if someone had

622
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: actually forced their way in. At this point, I started

623
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: thinking of everything. I tried to be as thorough as possible.

624
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: I took pictures of the door locked so I could

625
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: show people and there really was no sign. The apartment

626
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: was basically exactly the way I had seen it before

627
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: I left. Besides all the dust everywhere, was any of

628
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: Snaz's clothing missing, any of her belongings missing, nothing, nothing,

629
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: And again in retrospect, at this point, I didn't know

630
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: she'd gone to Century one. We learned that later in

631
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: the day. But there were no bags, no new bags,

632
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: no articles, no big bags from since or twenty one

633
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: that we're sitting in front of the house. Nothing was

634
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: changed at all. And at some point you look for

635
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: her passport and identification. Yeah. I was able to get

636
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: back down there again. I was in multiple times, and

637
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: at this point is when I started looking for signs.

638
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: Could she have left? Could something have happened? There were

639
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: no bags that were missing, her eyeglasses, as Mr Gallant said,

640
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: we're still in the house, her driver's license, her passport,

641
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: all her credit cards. The morning of the tenth, on

642
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: the way back from court, we went to the bank.

643
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: We stopped and took out a hundred dollars from the bank,

644
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: so we split it. And I remember that we've gone

645
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: to a party earlier that weekend, on Saturday night, and

646
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: she kept saying she was wearing her contacts that day,

647
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: and she said, you know, Ronnie, my contacts are very old.

648
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: They're hurting my eyes. On the way back from the

649
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: subway that night, she actually took the context out and

650
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: put them in her mouth because her eyes were hurting

651
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: and she was holding onto my arm as I was

652
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: basically leading her back to the apartment. And so that

653
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: day she must have been wearing her old contacts, because

654
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: again her glasses. We're at home. This may not seem important,

655
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: but it is. It's a clue. In the century twenty

656
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: one footage is not wearing glasses. Instead, it appears she's

657
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: wearing old contacts, the same contacts that bothered her so

658
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: much a few days earlier that she took them out

659
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: and saved them in her mouth. Now, unless she planned

660
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: to go somewhere after century one before she left her apartment,

661
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: why would she wear painful old contacts. Why wear them

662
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: to just go shopping? Unless she planned to go somewhere

663
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: to see someone after century unless she cared about how

664
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: she looked. So I think whatever Sneha did after century one,

665
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: she planned ahead of time. It was not spontaneous, making

666
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: it even more bizarre that the NYPD and private investigators

667
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: found no evidence of any plans, no emails, phone calls

668
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: to strangers, etcetera. The only people we know Snayha talked

669
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: to on the afternoon of the tenth, right before she

670
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: disappeared are her mom, Onto and maybe one or both

671
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: of her brothers, including her younger brother John, who lived

672
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: only a few blocks from Century. Anyway, back to on.

673
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: You know, once we started getting into the idea that

674
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: we couldn't find her is when we really started to

675
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: brainstorm every single possibility. Even though my wife and I

676
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: had a great relationship, we went through everything, every single

677
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: possible scenario. Could she have wanted to leave that I

678
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: didn't know about? So then we checked her backs. Could

679
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: there be someone that I didn't know about? So we

680
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: checked her letters, checked her emails, started talking to friends,

681
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: really good friends. I mean, I was very blunt and

682
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: I was very frank with everyone, saying, listen, if there's

683
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: anything we should know. Let's know she was seeing before

684
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: she left Cabrini and everything was going on, She started

685
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: seeing a therapist. I went to go talk to the therapist.

686
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: Any single idea that we could think of we tried.

687
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: There was a Marina at Battery Park City. We tried

688
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: to get a list of all the boats that left

689
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: Battery Park City. We put up flyers. We called everyone

690
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: that's Neahan new We called everyone to say, listen, do

691
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: you know someone That'snahan might know people who moved away,

692
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: People she was in college with, people she was in

693
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: high school, with people from medical school. We tried to

694
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: make every single contact we could, and then of course

695
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: we started going to shelters, putting flyers up in shelters,

696
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: contacting shelters, psychiatric institutions. Maybe we're thinking, maybe she saw

697
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: something that just damaged her mind. We didn't didn't know.

698
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: We started canvassing all the clubs, all the bars, everywhere

699
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: that we used to frequent, all the restaurants we used

700
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: to like to go to. Anything possible that we could

701
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: think of we started to do, including hiring a private investigator,

702
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: not ken go On. The first p I whose name

703
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, Galant was the second. This is around

704
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: the same time the NYPD got involved. Also, we were

705
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: thinking could there have been foul play involved? They went

706
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: to talk to the most likely person would be the

707
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: person since they had the altercation with before the Cabrini

708
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: doctors Snay haw accused of sexual assault in June two

709
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: thousand one. They talked to him and they felt there

710
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: was no way that there was anything. This is also

711
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: a doctor who had not They felt that there was

712
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: nothing to it, and they went and searched their places

713
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: in Manhattan called the Tombs Jail that they were detaining people.

714
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: They went and searched those places, also saying there's no

715
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: listening of snay High in there. They checked police records

716
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: to report anybody missing at the time. They checked ambulance

717
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: records see if anyone had been missing at the time

718
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: that night. There was no instances of any crime at

719
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: all in Lower Manhattan. I tried to get a log

720
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 1: of all nine one calls placed in Lower Manhattan from

721
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: five pm on September tenth, two thousand one, until five

722
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: am on nine eleven. The NYPD denied my request, saying

723
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: the records no longer exists. Mr Philip, are you say

724
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: has brother? Yes, I am, And when was the last

725
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: time you saw her had contact with her? About two

726
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: and a half weeks before. This is one of three

727
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: conflicting answers John gave about when he last saw and

728
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: or spoke to snay Ha. You just heard him, say,

729
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: two and a half weeks before eleven, around August. But

730
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: on September two thousand one, John told n y p

731
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: D Detective Richard Stark that he last spoke to snay

732
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: Haa six weeks prior around August. And John told me

733
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: eight or nine days before nine eleven, around September two

734
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: or three August eight August, September two or third, three

735
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: different answers after she disappeared. Did you put a stake

736
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: in the effort by the family to find some trace

737
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: of her? Yes? I did. And can you tell us

738
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: what you did in connection with that effort, especially in

739
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: conjunction with the other friends and family members. Describe what

740
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: you went through and what you did. The first person

741
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: I contacted the following day twelve was Ron. Actually I

742
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: first contacted my mother. After that I contacted Ron. Ron

743
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: had put together a flyer and he had emailed it

744
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: to me. At that point, I went down to my

745
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: girlfriend's office on thirty fourth Street, where she worked, and

746
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: we made copies. I gathered together about at that point

747
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: six friends to meet me there. I gave them each

748
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: a stack of a hundred flyers, and they went out

749
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: to distribute flyers at that point, after I had given

750
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: them the flyers, I got on the phone. I started

751
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: calling friends, family members, I called cousins in the city,

752
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: asking if they had heard anything, and also asking them

753
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: for additional help as far as again displaying the flyers.

754
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: So the first day September twelve, we had a lot

755
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: of people going throughout New York, mainly towards Midtown, downtown,

756
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: the Village West Village, Union Square area, posting flyers the

757
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: whole day. From that point, I also we spoke with

758
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: the media to try and gain media coverage. Again, the

759
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: objective was to get her picture out there, to get

760
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: her face out there, to see if anybody had any

761
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: sort of answers, any idea of where she may be

762
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: or what may have happened to her, because again at

763
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: this point, we had no idea what may or may

764
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: not happen to her at that point directly after nine eleven,

765
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: so we were looking for clues after that point that week,

766
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: two weeks, three weeks consecutively. This is what I was

767
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: doing continuously, you know, to the point where I was

768
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: waking up every single day and my job was to

769
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: put up flyers. I dropped my I had a business

770
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: at the time I was running, I put that on hold.

771
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: I also had my employees who worked for me give

772
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: out the flyers as well. These flyers ended up from

773
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: what I understand to be all over the city. They

774
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: reached all of Manhattan, the Upper West Side, the Bronx,

775
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Queens. So these are things I was doing. And

776
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: in addition to posting flyers, helping distribute flyers, did you

777
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: also have occasion as part of your efforts to find

778
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: some trace of her? Did you also go to clubs, restaurants, bars,

779
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: in places of that nature? Yes, I did, and can

780
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: you please tell us about that what you did in

781
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: terms of that effort, I would say approximately three or

782
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: four days after I was giving out the flyers, I

783
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: started focusing on going down to bars and clubs, mainly

784
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: in the East Village Alphabet City, Union Square area, places

785
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: that I thought she would hang out, places that I

786
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 1: thought she would be around. There wasn't a particular bar

787
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: or a particular lounge that I knew she would go,

788
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: but particular areas and scenes that she liked to be around.

789
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: She liked to be around more of an artistic scene,

790
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: more of both the West Village and Lower East Side,

791
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: the restaurants down there are the small lounges, the small cafes.

792
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: She enjoyed hanging out at those places. Had you been

793
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: to some of these places with her? Yes, I've been

794
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: to some of these places with her. One of those

795
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: places that I did go with her was a club

796
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: called Centerfly, which I think we may have gone to

797
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: two months prior to Night eleven. We had danced over there.

798
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: That was one club that I don't think she frequented

799
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: that club. Again, I don't remember her frequenting any particular club,

800
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: but that was the last one that I went to

801
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: with her. So I went to that particular one. I

802
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: talked to bartender's public doorman and yes, to answer your

803
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: specific question, and you had her picture, and you showed

804
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: her picture. I showed her picture. Yes, And the results

805
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: of all that was negative. I take it, excuse me.

806
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: What was the result of all those efforts negative? Nobody

807
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: had seen her, nobody had a lot of people didn't

808
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: even recognize her, and so yes, the efforts, unfortunately didn't

809
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: bring anything up. Bogatin wrapped up questioning John surprisingly Ellen

810
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 1: Winner The Guardian ad Vitam had no follow up questions.

811
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: Next up, snay House Mom onto tell us about your contact.

812
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: On Monday, September Monday, I was at work. I don't

813
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: know if I said high first or she did, because

814
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: I was online in the instant messenger. One of us

815
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: started chatting, you know, instant messaging, and she told me,

816
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: I just finished my meditation, and then she told me

817
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: all about Saturday night. She was a static, you know,

818
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: how great Ronnie was and about the party and how

819
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: happy she was. She was just so proud of Ronnie

820
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: and she was just so so happy. And then I said,

821
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: what are you doing today? And she said, Mom, you

822
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: saw my house. It's a mess. So I'm cleaning up

823
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: because we had invited Knew and Rick. Knew is her

824
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: cousin Knew and Rick for dinner tomorrow. So I'm cleaning

825
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: up the house. That's what I'm doing, she said. And

826
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: then she said, I'm reporting some plants, and she had

827
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: got some orchids from Hawaii and she was attending to

828
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: that and she was talking all about that, and we

829
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: chatted for almost an hour and then she said, Mom,

830
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: I better get back to my cleaning otherwise I won't

831
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: get anywhere. And that's all she said. And that was

832
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: the last contact you had with him. Yeah, that's the

833
00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: last contact I had. Auntie testified that she were extremely close. Surprisingly, again,

834
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: Ellen Winner had no follow up questions, but Delty, the

835
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: attorney referee, did I just have one question. When you

836
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: chatted with her on the tenth on that Monday, September tenth,

837
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: did she give you any idea she would be going

838
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: out and what she was going to be doing that evening. No,

839
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: if she had any plans, she would have told me.

840
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: That's the way our relationship is, you know, we always

841
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: tell everything. You know, I tell her and she tell me.

842
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: We are like friends. So she would have told me, Mom,

843
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm going shopping. You know, maybe I'm going to go

844
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: she would have told me. But I don't think she

845
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: planned to go out. I think she got tired of

846
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: cleaning the house reporting because when I went back to

847
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: her apartment later on, you could still see in the

848
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: bathtub she was repotting the plant. This is interesting, again,

849
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: like the contacts, it seems unimportant, and maybe it is.

850
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't matter at all. But if any returned

851
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: to Ron and snay House apartment after nineal leven and

852
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: the orchid repotting soil was still in the bathtub, That

853
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: means Ron got home the night of after a long

854
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: day working at a hospital and didn't shower. It also

855
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: means Sna did not come back after century one and shower.

856
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: So two quick questions. Did Ron actually get home around

857
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: eleven pm? And did he stay the entire night in

858
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: the apartment? After Onto finished testifying? The evidentiary hearing ended,

859
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: but the court case was not over a few months later,

860
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: on September four, Detective Stark testified at a different hearing.

861
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: Here's Ellen Winner, the Guardian ad litem and Stark. Were

862
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: you aware that she had a drinking problem? Yes? And

863
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: were you aware that she had a drug problem? The

864
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: drugs I didn't know about that. There was a hint

865
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: of having a drug problem, but I had no proof.

866
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: There were no facts about that. Someone close to snay

867
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: Hawk confirmed to me that she did use drugs heavily.

868
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: Did you consider whether her disappearance and or death could

869
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: have been caused by excessive drinking or drugs or related activity.

870
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: In the beginning, it was considered just by you know,

871
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: she liked to go out and have a good time,

872
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: and she would drink, possibly all night long, and then

873
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: come home. That's why all the checks were done on

874
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: all the hospitals and the moors. Were you aware other

875
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: than Cabrini her termination at Cabrini? Were you aware of

876
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: any difficulties on her job at St. Vincent's? Yes, and

877
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: could you tell me what those were? She was seeing

878
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: a counselor, I believe, and she missed the session and

879
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: they put her on I guess they would consider it

880
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: modified on my job, it would be modified duty where

881
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: she couldn't practice medicine until further notice, until she saw

882
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: a counselor, I'm sorry, until she saw the counselor and

883
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: straightened everything out. And do you know what her counseling

884
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: was with regard to it was for alcohol and drugs.

885
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: Were you aware of any romantic or actual relationships that

886
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: Dr Philip had outside of her marriage that could have

887
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: been a cause for disappearance or unexplained behavior? Not any

888
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: one person. I was informed that she did have outside

889
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: marriage sexually, but there was no name put to that.

890
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: There was no regular romantic involvement, not with one person.

891
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: There was no name ever brought up of a certain person.

892
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: And did you have caused to investigate her in that regard, Yes,

893
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: just by talking to a brother and talking to a husband.

894
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: Ron is the one that informed me about it. And

895
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: what was your understanding of how she meant possible partners? Well,

896
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: it was from drinking, from being out in the bar.

897
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 1: And did you consider the possibility that a person who

898
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: she meant in such an encounter could have done her

899
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: ill and caused her death. No, there's no one person.

900
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: Detective Stark dismissed the idea of foul play, of kidnapping

901
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: or murder of a random, crazed killer. Nine eleven was

902
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: the likely answer, he said, but Judge Renee Roth did

903
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily agree. After examining the facts and all the

904
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: testimony you just heard, she declined to expedite the issuance

905
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: of a death certificate certifying that Sneha died on nine

906
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: eleven at the trade center, noting that technically the case

907
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: was still active and there was no physical evidence supporting

908
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: the theory that Snea died during the attack, she wrote quote.

909
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: The testimony indicated that the absentee and petitioner were having

910
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: marital problems, and that she often stayed out all night

911
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: with individuals not known to her husband, whom she met

912
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: at various bars. The proof regarding other details of the

913
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: absentees life and personal relationships was often fragmented and even contradictory.

914
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: Detective Stark testified that in the course of his investigation,

915
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: he discovered that, in addition to the marital discord, the

916
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 1: absentee had alcohol and possibly drug abuse problems which appeared

917
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: to have interfered with her job performance. And Moreover, the

918
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: detective testified that at the time of her disappearance, the

919
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: absentee had been suspended from practicing at her current hospital, St.

920
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: Vincent's because she had failed to comply with the hospital's

921
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: requirement that she attend substance abuse counseling. Petitioner conceded that

922
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: Cabrini Hospital fired his wife, but he also claimed that

923
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: the real reason was not the claimed alcoholism, but was

924
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: instead racial and sexual bias against her by her co workers.

925
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 1: His testimony regarding the absentees subsequent residency at St. Vincent's

926
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: Hospital also diverged from the detectives in that Petitioner insisted

927
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: everything was going well there. Moreover, he failed to inform

928
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: the court about the counseling requirement, as well as the

929
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: fact that the absentee had been suspended because of her

930
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: non compliance, and there are additional disparities between the documentary

931
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: evidence and testimony with respect to the interactions between the

932
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: absentee and her husband that morning at court. According to

933
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the police report, petitioner told the police that he and

934
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: the absentee had a quote big fight at the court

935
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: house because he was upset the absentee was abusing drugs

936
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: and alcohol and was conducting bisexual acts. The police report

937
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: indicates that the absentee stormed out of the court house,

938
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: leaving petitioner behind. On the other hand, at the hearing

939
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: in this court, the petitioner's description of that morning's events

940
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: was materially different from what he had told the police.

941
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: He said nothing about any argument and instead described only

942
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: harmonious interaction between himself and the absentee. Petitioner did, however,

943
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: admit that he and the absentee were having problems because

944
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: of her habit of staying away from home at night

945
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: without letting him know her whereabouts. As to the night

946
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: of September ten, He testified that he was not overly

947
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: concerned when she did not return home because that had

948
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: happened before and he expected her to come back in

949
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: the morning. He also said he thought she might have

950
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: been at her brother's house because she and her brother

951
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: had had an argument and he thought that she may

952
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: have gone there to try to patch things up. As

953
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: it turned out, her brother testified that their last contact

954
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: was about two and a half weeks before the absentee disappeared.

955
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: It is noted that the police report indicates that the

956
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: absentees brother told the police that he had argued with

957
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: the sister because he had found her and his girlfriend

958
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: in his apartment having sexual relations. The inconsistencies between what

959
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: petitioner told the police during the investigation, on the one hand,

960
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: and his testimony in this proceeding on the other hand,

961
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: materially undermine his credibility. As a consequence, he has failed

962
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: to develop a cohesive picture of the circumstances leading up

963
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: to the absentee's disappearance. We now turn to the relief requested.

964
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: The first question is whether there is clear and convincing

965
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: evidence to establish the absentee's exposure to specific peril. This

966
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: phrase specific peril is critical. Remember it specific peril, namely

967
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: the terrorist attack on September eleven two one. It is

968
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: observed that the record is devoid of anything to tie

969
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: the absentee to the vicinity of the World Trade Center

970
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: on September eleventh, two one, or to any other specific peril.

971
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: Nor is there anything in the record to explain why

972
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: this thirty one year old woman has not contacted her mother,

973
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: with whom the record establishes she had a close, loving relationship.

974
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Although Detective Stark, in response to a question by petitioner's attorney,

975
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: suggested that the absentee could have returned to the area

976
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: of her apartment building and gone to help the victims

977
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: of the attack, his rank speculation has absolutely no foundation

978
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: in the record. We turn, for a moment to the

979
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 1: video shot several minutes before the attack of a woman

980
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: leaving the lobby of the building where the absentee lived.

981
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: This video was not produced in court, although Detective Stark

982
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: in his testimony said the woman was similar in height

983
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: to the absentee and both had straight, dark hair, the

984
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: absentees husban And and the private investigator he hired both

985
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: testified that they could not identify the blurred and professionally

986
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: enhanced image of the woman on the tape as the absentee.

987
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: As mentioned earlier, the latest police report indicates that the

988
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: case remains open, as do the questions about the absentee's

989
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: actions after she left the department store with her purchases

990
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: on the evening of September ten. The purchases themselves five

991
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: dollars worth of bed Linen's lingerie and shoes have never surfaced.

992
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: Although petitioner has not established that the absentee died as

993
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: a result of a specific peril, the court is satisfied

994
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: that sufficient proof has been submitted to establish that a

995
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: diligent but unproductive search for her was conducted, and that

996
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: death is the only logical explanation for her continued absence.

997
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 1: Judge Roth wrote off the idea that saying, how I

998
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: used nine eleven as cover to voluntarily disappear? Notwithstanding the

999
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: turmoil in her life, there is no indication that the

1000
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: absentee was about to run away from her problems or

1001
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: to abandon her hard earned profession. Furthermore, Petitioner and the

1002
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: absentee's criminal attorney agreed that she was not particularly concerned

1003
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: about the outcome of the false complaint charge, but believed

1004
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: that at worst, she would be charged with a misdemeanor. Moreover,

1005
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: it appears that it would not have been overly difficult

1006
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: for her to rectify her problem with her current employer,

1007
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 1: and her family was adamant that she would never have

1008
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: just walked away from her hard earned career, Nor is

1009
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: there any basis to believe that she would voluntarily fail

1010
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: in all this time to contact her mother. If there

1011
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: was one aspect of the absentee's life about which there

1012
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: was consensus, it was that she was devoted to and

1013
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: extremely protective of her mother. They visited each other frequently

1014
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: and communicated either by phone or email almost daily. According

1015
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: to everyone who knew the absentee, she would never choose

1016
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: to cause her mother pain. In other words, if the

1017
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: absentee were live, she would have contacted her mother by now.

1018
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: Based on all the foregoing, the absentees death is fixed

1019
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: as having occurred on September two thousand four, three years

1020
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: after she disappeared. Next time on Missing on nine eleven,

1021
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: I get asked by by Vicktens families, do I think,

1022
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: as a scientist, are the remains buried at fresh kills?

1023
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: And my answer is yes, absolutely, no specific homework this week,

1024
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: but if you know anything, you can reach us by

1025
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: phone at one eight three three new Tips. That's one

1026
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: eight three three six three nine eight four seven seven

1027
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: again one eight three, three, six, three nine, eight, four

1028
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: seven seven, or you can reach us via email at

1029
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: tips at iHeart media dot com. That's Tips, t I

1030
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: p s at iHeart Media dot com. Ron Lieberman voice

1031
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: by Seth Nicholas Johnson, Ken go Ont voiced by Matt Frederick,

1032
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: Mark Bogutin voiced by Noel Brown. Ellen Winner voiced by

1033
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: Holly Fry. Deltigue voiced by Tracy V. Wilson, Judge Rena

1034
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: Roth voiced by Lauren Vogelbaum, John Phillip voiced by Taylor Chacogne,

1035
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm stop Phillip voiced by Indraw Dota Gupta. Detective Richard

1036
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: Stark voiced by Ben Bolan and Mark Freiberg voiced by

1037
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: Chris Brown. Ben Bowen is our executive producer, Paul Decan

1038
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: is our supervising producer, Chris Brown is our assistant producer,

1039
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is

1040
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: our research assistant, and I'm your host and executive producer

1041
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: John Walzach. Cover art by Pam Peacock. Special thanks to

1042
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: Tamika Campbell at I Heart and to Christoph Zappriy and

1043
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: New Orleans. Archival audio from Unsolved Mysteries provided by Cosgrove

1044
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: Mirror Productions. Also thank you to the staff of the

1045
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: New York County Lawyers Association, the staff of the New

1046
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: York County Circuits Court, and ASoP Rock. Original theme music

1047
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: by ASoP Rock. Check out Asop's website at ASoP rock

1048
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find me on Twitter at at

1049
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: John wallzac j O n w A l c z

1050
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: a K. If you like this show, check out our

1051
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: first season, Missing in Alaska, about the nineteen seventy two

1052
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: disappearance of two congressmen. Missing on nine eleven is a

1053
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: co production of I Heart Radio and Greenfork Media.