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Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening Hunt Don't Meet

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Speaker 1: e podcast. You can't predict anything presented by First like

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Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to

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Speaker 1: technical outerwear for every Hunt First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer,

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Speaker 1: all right Man, super special gas to date. We're joined

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Speaker 1: by Seth Cantner, who I've been wanting to have on

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Writer, photographer, commercial fisherman hunter born

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Speaker 1: in a sad igloo in Alaska or a cave raised

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Speaker 1: in the sade Igloo. Go ahead, well, I'm filling the gas.

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Speaker 1: Sadly enough, it's true. A when I uh finally was

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Speaker 1: able to find a girlfriend in my middle ages, I

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Speaker 1: uh she started saying I was born in a cave,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, no, it was It just had

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Speaker 1: a tunnel and dirt floor, and and uh, I went

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Speaker 1: to a lot of work to describe how it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a cave. And now I'm sort of accepting that A

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Speaker 1: lot of mice running around on the floor and dark

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Speaker 1: and cariboo hairs and everything, um cariboo hides to sleep

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Speaker 1: on and Cariboo first where and Cariboo muck lux And

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Speaker 1: that's I guess why I ended up writing about Cariboo.

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Speaker 1: So they say, right, what you know about uh, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into this book. You got a lot of

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Speaker 1: books though, three three books, now four books, I think

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Speaker 1: it's five or six. Yeah, when's the children's story. But

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Speaker 1: I first became aware of you when Ordinary Wolves came out.

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Speaker 1: That was my first book novel. I wrote it as

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Speaker 1: a novel so I could tell the truth about uh,

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Speaker 1: northern Alaska and inpact villages and being a white boy

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Speaker 1: in the huh, in the native communities I grew up in,

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Speaker 1: and um and uh. I didn't really tell the Alaska

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Speaker 1: that people were used to and had a hard time

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Speaker 1: finding a publisher because of it, and oh abs freaking

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Speaker 1: I got fifteen hundred dollar advance after ten years of

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Speaker 1: trying to get it published. Yeah. Yeah, but that book

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Speaker 1: got around a lot though a certain extent. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: but um yeah, it's kind of shocked people. I was

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Speaker 1: always irritated as a kid reading about well, I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to read about Alaska, super boring. Um, we had

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Speaker 1: so much uh, you know, bear licking the acts or

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Speaker 1: you know, every wolves outside hauling at the dogs, and

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Speaker 1: so to read about Alaska was super boring and um

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Speaker 1: and when you did, it was all glamorized and bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And so when I wrote about that country, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to kind of described the real stuff, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: which had to include you know, drunks where they are

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Speaker 1: fifteens and the stuff that maybe the New York houses

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Speaker 1: didn't want to hear about Alaska and expected you to

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Speaker 1: leave out. Um. Yeah, that was my first book. It

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Speaker 1: took me probably twenty years of trying to get to that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then you follow that up with Shopping

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Speaker 1: for Porcupine. Yeah. People wanted a memoir and I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize it was weird to grow up in a Saudi

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Speaker 1: glue and uh and be sort of separated from people,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I expected a lot from humans. We didn't

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Speaker 1: see him very often, and and we would sort of

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Speaker 1: run barefoot up the hill and tell my parents travelers

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Speaker 1: that was the word for people here. Yeah. Whoops, almost

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Speaker 1: said the wrong word, but anyway, Um, yeah, travelers. It

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Speaker 1: was a big deal back then because they brought news

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Speaker 1: of other villages, usually any pack hunts and um, and uh,

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Speaker 1: we just saw people the least of you know, most

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Speaker 1: animals and um, so bears super common, grizzly bears show up,

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Speaker 1: but but people were not. So. UM. I could go

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Speaker 1: on and on about all this, but anyway, I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize until part way through my life that I was

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Speaker 1: sort of in between white and uh native, and in

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Speaker 1: between sort of human and U or nature and humans

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Speaker 1: and um. And then when I did go out into

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Speaker 1: this what we called the white world, it was incredibly

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Speaker 1: difficult to understand, um why people didn't make sense. Which

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Speaker 1: now I've accepted that they don't, um, which is a

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Speaker 1: lot easier once you accept that. But um, at that

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Speaker 1: point it was like, well, bears to me makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Uh um. And then also there's that whole thing where

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Speaker 1: when you're armed in dangerous as you know, igly boy,

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Speaker 1: I never went anywhere without a very few places without

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Speaker 1: a gun, and um it was kind of like a shovel.

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Speaker 1: You know, you don't think of it as a Um.

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Speaker 1: All this stuff about guns now is weird, but it's

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Speaker 1: more like shovels. So um, take your shovel. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so to me, the idea of like, uh, everybody being

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Speaker 1: excited about a bear being dangerous is such a weird

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Speaker 1: concept compared to what about humans. I mean, they're so

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Speaker 1: fucking dangerous, um and weird and unpredictable, and bears generally especially,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, I can tell you a lot more

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Speaker 1: people on guns because of humans than they do because

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Speaker 1: of bears. My worldview is horribly warped. And I'm just

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Speaker 1: at fifty seven, I'm finally realizing that. Well we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that, Okay. Then you followed up most recently, Well,

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Speaker 1: this is I love this book Man A Thousand Trails

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Speaker 1: Home Living with Caribou, which like kind of moves outside

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Speaker 1: of just general I mean, there's a lot of general,

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Speaker 1: broad experience you talk a lot about growing up, but

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Speaker 1: it gets it. I mean it gets into the sort

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Speaker 1: of biology, the biology of cariboo along with the cultural

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Speaker 1: significance of caribou. Um it really paints like a really

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Speaker 1: in depth picture. And I like about as you can't

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Speaker 1: talk about I shouldn't say you can't. Reading the book,

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Speaker 1: one realizes you cannot talk about cariboo without talking about people. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty indicative of everything we have going on

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Speaker 1: with the modern world. Um um, I just I can't

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Speaker 1: stand that to a certain extent, It's like I want

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Speaker 1: to protect the wild land up there, and which is

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Speaker 1: you know, me protecting my lifestyle. But you gotta turn

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Speaker 1: your focus to people, which is a painful thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on Cariboo, embars and wolves, but

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Speaker 1: it all goes back to the people and them are

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Speaker 1: guing over, you know, more and more resource conflict and

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Speaker 1: who gets hunt what and um. So it's a really

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Speaker 1: hard book to write for me because I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to say, and I guess to a certain extent

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Speaker 1: I still don't. And I did the best I could

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Speaker 1: to go back and describe, you know, the whalers coming

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Speaker 1: and what that meant for uh, for natives in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: and and very quickly what it meant for Cariboo, which

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Speaker 1: was you know, um um almost wiping out the herds

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Speaker 1: and um and then too and that was that had

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Speaker 1: to do with firearms coming. And then nowadays we have

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Speaker 1: UM basically this big influx of technology, cell phones, communications.

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Speaker 1: So if a Cariboo swims across the Kobuk River, uh,

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Speaker 1: people know pretty quickly and and uh and so there's

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Speaker 1: all these boats and some automatic guns and so being

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Speaker 1: a Cariboo is um is um starting to look like

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Speaker 1: it did UM in eighteen seventy five when UH rifled

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Speaker 1: UH um my skits and then repeating guns first arrived

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Speaker 1: in the Arctic. It's this um danger zone for um

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Speaker 1: us uh wiping out animals with our technology. So that's confusing.

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Speaker 1: But the thing I really wanted to do with this

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Speaker 1: UH book was UM described you know, my love of caribou,

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Speaker 1: which started with you know, meat and furs and uh

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Speaker 1: you know, utilitarian use, and then UH this idea of

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Speaker 1: being out on the tunder and having this you know,

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Speaker 1: thousands of cariboo come across the across the tunder towards

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Speaker 1: you and that companionship on the land, so you know,

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Speaker 1: all these different forms of greed. I think where you like,

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Speaker 1: you know, caribou roasted ribs, and you like the warm furs,

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Speaker 1: but you like the companionship of this animal too, and

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Speaker 1: UM and what it would mean to be on a

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Speaker 1: on an empty land if if we mess up, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things We're gonna cover off on

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Speaker 1: some stuff. And one thing that I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: into is the long line. Just as an outside observer

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Speaker 1: who enjoys just spending time in Alaska, as a tourist.

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Speaker 1: You know, Uh, the long line of things that all

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Speaker 1: seemed to be competing to be the thing that ruins Alaska. Uh,

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Speaker 1: meaning it was white people. It was the snow machine.

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Speaker 1: It was the bolt action rifle. It was the bush plane.

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Speaker 1: It was if you ask Buck Bowden, it was in

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Speaker 1: reach devices. Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's it's been getting

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Speaker 1: rude a long time. Yeah, that's interesting. And then and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it was before this started you were talking

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Speaker 1: about these these are the good old days. And in

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Speaker 1: some ways it really is because um, I like to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, regardless of that crazy amount of change we've

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Speaker 1: had in climate and because of vegetation, and then uh

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Speaker 1: just kind of we're kind of buzzing with technology up

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Speaker 1: there now. Uh lots of times them out on the tundra.

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Speaker 1: You know. I just came from spending breakup. I never

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Speaker 1: saw a human, you know, for almost a month, and

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Speaker 1: um uh just animals and trees and thunder, and so

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Speaker 1: that the land in some ways is is uh we're

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Speaker 1: the ones who really changed, um um and um yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I always like writing about it. I have this impulse

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Speaker 1: to to describe that, uh, the Innupact people and the

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Speaker 1: land and the connections and the um how we used

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Speaker 1: to live. I guess this focus on um every animal

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Speaker 1: when it's fat, the innupact. We're fixated on fat for survival. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up. If you uh, if you came

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Speaker 1: home with a skinny caribou, you are significantly more disgusting

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Speaker 1: than uh, you know, serial rapist or or any other

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Speaker 1: kind of criminal. Um because you brought home the skinny

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Speaker 1: caribou and um and uh and you laugh, but it's

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Speaker 1: not funny. Uh and you know all that was back

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Speaker 1: to survival and the fat just kept your dog team

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Speaker 1: and your family and yourself going. And UM, I hate

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Speaker 1: to tell you, but uh, I gotta cooler muck tuck

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Speaker 1: here next to my ankle that I'm gonna pull out

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Speaker 1: here in a minute. And uh so we'll need some

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Speaker 1: cold weather afterwards. And I'm not seeing that outside right now,

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Speaker 1: But get the get the muck tuck ready, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna talk about a couple things that we're

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Speaker 1: gonna come back in. And when we jump back in,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about cariboo fat. Okay, Uh, all the first

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Speaker 1: light solitude kit is now it's not windproof. They added

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Speaker 1: in a windproof membrane. So tried and true sanctuary line

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Speaker 1: back in stock now was out, but now it's back

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Speaker 1: in stock. And what's even better about the sanctuary line

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Speaker 1: for white tail hunting improved windproof membrane. Okay, you can

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Speaker 1: officially declare it that. So the solitude vast saltude jacket,

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Speaker 1: solitude bib sanctuary two point oh jacket sanctuary two point

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Speaker 1: oh bib. Check them out. You want kill big, huge

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Speaker 1: white tails, not be chilly. Oh, so Seth is officially married. Yep. Now,

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Speaker 1: when you set your date, did you realize that you

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Speaker 1: set your wedding date for the Custer's death. No, never

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Speaker 1: occurred to you, dude. The minute you told me you

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Speaker 1: were getting married that day, I was like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: day Custer died, And I know exactly what I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about when I officiate the wedding. Never occurred to me.

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Speaker 1: It didn't occurred to me that it was Kenyan Ferrywell

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Speaker 1: eye do either. But you know how you're living. You

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Speaker 1: learn now like Serve Tea, you on a silver platter.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it when you told me that. The

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Speaker 1: next day I went to we we had like you know,

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Speaker 1: very Catholic like memorial for my grandpa's passing, which happened

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago. So I drove over to Bill

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Speaker 1: and I saw the fam had this deal and my

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Speaker 1: stepdad was walking around being like, you know what happened

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Speaker 1: this weekend? Right? I was like, huh, interesting, We're at

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Speaker 1: a memorial for someone who passed away, and somebody is

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Speaker 1: bringing up the death of George Armstrong Custer, which was

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Speaker 1: geographically much closer to where we were, and the day

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Speaker 1: prior we were at um a ceremony celebrating the union

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Speaker 1: of two people, and you brought up George Armstrong Custer,

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Speaker 1: and it just kind of made me think what would

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Speaker 1: be the more appropriate venue seth wedding? This confused because

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Speaker 1: Little Big Horn is July and twenty six, but Custer

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Speaker 1: got killed on twenty five, and it was just kind

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Speaker 1: of like a skirmish over on what the hell's is

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Speaker 1: in June. I'm sorry, confused people. It was just like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a skirmish going on in oh Man,

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Speaker 1: my ancestors went down the old George Johnson Henderson's represented

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Speaker 1: on that Fateful Day anniversary. Do you think they had

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Speaker 1: an idea what was what they were getting into. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened a long time ago. You

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Speaker 1: know what really threw me for a loop last night? Seth?

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Speaker 1: What's that? Uh? You know how you and Chester think

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Speaker 1: you're all the ship on catching walleyes. I was going

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Speaker 1: fish for fish. I was going fish for fish with

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Speaker 1: Chester last night. Well, he's probably, which makes me feel

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Speaker 1: like I could be like no, no, it makes me

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Speaker 1: feel like I could like be in there the tournament.

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Speaker 1: What we need to do is get to boats, two boats,

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Speaker 1: you and someone else, Me and Chester, and that's how

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Speaker 1: we'll figure out who the best wool I'm in is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you guys limit out? We limited out

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Speaker 1: on our top end fish, yeah, meaning we got one

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Speaker 1: when we do this tournament. Yeah, it's hard to limit

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Speaker 1: out on the low end fish or something like that.

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Speaker 1: When we do this head to a tournament though, Prior

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Speaker 1: to we need to go through Seth and Chester's boat

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Speaker 1: and divvy up all the good ship so we're on

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Speaker 1: equal footing. In my boat, when I went fish for

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Speaker 1: fish with Chester, my neighbor got a goose egg. Oh

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Speaker 1: he did? It was rough. I heard you were getting

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Speaker 1: him on plastics some where. Did you hear that from

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Speaker 1: Steve's not into sharing tournament ticks. I heard that from

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Speaker 1: from Chester. I got my first one. I leach I

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Speaker 1: was drowning. Oh yeah, my talk Chester, my barrel leeches

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Speaker 1: that I gave Chester to take along with him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: real quick speaking to Chester and weddings. When I get

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Speaker 1: to Chester's house to pick him up, it's like a

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Speaker 1: chaos at his house because his wedding ring fell out

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Speaker 1: of the diamond fell out of the ring onto a

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Speaker 1: gravel driveway. We sat on our knees for probably fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 1: He had it kind of down to like a circle

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Speaker 1: about a yard wide, and he knew like what should

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Speaker 1: be the center of the circle. And we spent about

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes removing pieces of gravel one at a time

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Speaker 1: out of that circle. And then Chester he's like, we

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Speaker 1: should probably go fishing if you want to stay and

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Speaker 1: look for this diamond. I'll stay and look for the

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Speaker 1: diamond out care And he's like, now we'll go fishing.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, you should look up on the internet

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Speaker 1: how to find a diamond in the gravel. Um. I

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Speaker 1: told him just to search where is my diamond? But

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Speaker 1: I messaged Danielle and told her to go out at

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Speaker 1: night with a headlamp. Well that's Chester learned. So Chester

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Speaker 1: was waiting. He was gonna go when we got back.

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Speaker 1: He was gonna go out with a light and spend

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Speaker 1: his night looking for the thing. But then Danielle came back,

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Speaker 1: his wife came back and got some other friend to look,

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Speaker 1: and he got a really bright light and was able

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Speaker 1: to find the diamond. And he found the diamond in

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Speaker 1: areas that we had cleared. We declared it like, we

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Speaker 1: went out and ever expanding gravel removal circle, and the

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Speaker 1: diamond was within what we had cleared out, you know, searched,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. Can we hit leech is real quick? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I was talking leech trapping with Steve. I would talk

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Speaker 1: with Jay Siemens about leech trapping. Well I did, I

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Speaker 1: just watched his YouTube videos. I don't think you're in

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Speaker 1: a good spot though, I think you're in a stupid area. No. Well,

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Speaker 1: according to the wide world of Internet, that seems like

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Speaker 1: as good as spot as a lot. I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna bounce around and look where my kids get leeches

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Speaker 1: on them when they swim. Yeah, I got a spot

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Speaker 1: for you because I we waited in there for all

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Speaker 1: of three minutes and came out with five leeches. Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I like that, and my kids got But I mean,

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Speaker 1: you guys do understand that the spot I hit is

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Speaker 1: about half a mile from my house and the spot

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Speaker 1: that you guys are talking about. So I'd like to

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Speaker 1: start at the center and you could order five pounds

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Speaker 1: of leeches for what it would require to go around

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Speaker 1: the three forks. That just gives them away. But I

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Speaker 1: mean that's where my spot is. Well, this guy look

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Speaker 1: for bucks. You get more leeches than you use off

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Speaker 1: the summer. It's fifty bucks a pound. Those are the

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Speaker 1: leeches that you're in gold dudes like morel The leeches

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Speaker 1: you're using last night were from him. Um, he gets

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Speaker 1: from Minnesota. So you just chucking in a chunk old

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Speaker 1: meat or something every once in a while to keep

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Speaker 1: these things alive? Are you trying to keep them all

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Speaker 1: still live for months? With that? Yeah? They live. I

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Speaker 1: just keep the water yet flushing the water. He's gunk

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Speaker 1: up your water. Leach keepers do put like something in there.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what. I don't know. Let me you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I don't know how to catch

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Speaker 1: them real quick. My dad when my dad's best bodies

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Speaker 1: was a guy named Ron Spring, and he owned Springs

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Speaker 1: Sporting Goods and later he sold Spring Sporting Goods, but

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Speaker 1: he remained. Uh. He was a commercial bait fisherman, so

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Speaker 1: he got commercial fisherman right. But he was a commercial

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Speaker 1: fisherman that caught fishing bait. And he he had a

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Speaker 1: team of people that tide flies. He had a team

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Speaker 1: of people that tide spawn sacks. He was a leech trapper,

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Speaker 1: a wiggler trapper, raised red worms, leafworms, crawlers. He did everything,

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Speaker 1: supplied all the live bait. He got to be in

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Speaker 1: his early eighties and I wanted to profile him for

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Speaker 1: a magazine. And I pitched the magazine and got the

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Speaker 1: green light to profile him. And when I approached him

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Speaker 1: in his eighties, he said no, because these are trade secrets. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I love that. That's awesome. I couldn't believe it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He ate so much fish out of the Great Lakes

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Speaker 1: that um they would every month or everything. No, there's

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Speaker 1: every six months. He'd go to University of Michigan to

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Speaker 1: do tests on heavy metal contamination and um like testing

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Speaker 1: his mercury and all that ship. So he'd go down

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Speaker 1: there and they'd give him a list. They'd be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go to the store, right, you need two

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Speaker 1: dozen eggs, two leader bottle of Coca cola, pound of butter,

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Speaker 1: three autocadles whatever, right, and give them a list. And

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Speaker 1: then he'd wait a coup mists and they'd be like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what do you got to buy at the store. And

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Speaker 1: that was like the kind of ship they were testing

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Speaker 1: with them. And he told me, and I'll quote him,

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Speaker 1: he said, Steve, I wouldn't remembered that list if I

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Speaker 1: never ate a piece of fish at all. So he

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Speaker 1: felt like it was biased. But I'd be like, but

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Speaker 1: you don't know, Uh, I want to get out on

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Speaker 1: this podcast though. It was I built my leech trap. Oh,

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Speaker 1: went out to a spot nobody has any business of

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Speaker 1: going into, threw my lead trap out and somebody came by.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of people watch him. They sabotaged it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they cut my line, which is really stupid because they

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Speaker 1: left like, I used an old line spool and put

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Speaker 1: some fly line backing on there. But they think you

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Speaker 1: were doing well. I think they were probably even more

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Speaker 1: confused when they took a look at a little tanfull

350
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Speaker 1: you know, old beef liver. But they left that out there.

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Speaker 1: They left the trash out there, but they just cut

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Speaker 1: the line and then took like the sectional line attached

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Speaker 1: to the reel. So anyway, you left the whole reel

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Speaker 1: out there? Well, yeah, because I had a line. Oh

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Speaker 1: you're gonna reel it in? Yes, yeah, because you know

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Speaker 1: it's all bogged. Don't gotta worry about the thing all

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Speaker 1: tangled up and ship. Yeah, and I'm on in like

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Speaker 1: full flip flop mode. I'm not so they stole your

359
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Speaker 1: boots around. They just took this. I don't it's very confusing.

360
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Speaker 1: But no, no leeches. But they stole the real or

361
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Speaker 1: not stole the real. They all the line off the

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Speaker 1: reel and left the reel. Yeah, got such a like

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Speaker 1: finicky thief. Well again, I think they've probably had an

364
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Speaker 1: idea what was happening in their in their mind thought

365
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Speaker 1: you had a set line. Maybe I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not a single leach, not a single leach. But I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna keep broadcasting out from from home here. So you

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Speaker 1: get ready to turn you onto a hotspot man, people

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Speaker 1: of Bozeman. You find something soaking in a local settling

370
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Speaker 1: pond around here. It's not don't touch it, or we

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Speaker 1: get one of those people that can speak to the

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Speaker 1: dead and we to go talk to Ron Spring. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that'd be a Korean start setting that up, all right,

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Speaker 1: The first meat Eator Medium podcast. It's a great space

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Speaker 1: for a seance. Honestly, I gotta tell you a horrible

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Speaker 1: story about Ron Spring real quick. Um, well, my greatest

377
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: moments a shame. We're fishing. My dad called a big

378
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Speaker 1: northern and it was real cold out and it froze,

379
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Speaker 1: and so later my dad said, hey, do you want

380
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Speaker 1: to catch a big northern? And I was like yeah.

381
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Speaker 1: So he threw me the big northern and I caught it,

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Speaker 1: and I told Ron Spring I caught a bit whatever

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Speaker 1: the hell inch northern And it felt so bad. I

384
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Speaker 1: later called him back and said I didn't actually catch it,

385
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Speaker 1: like he thought that a little that was my birthday?

386
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Speaker 1: Was my birthday? Uh a black bear. This is a

387
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Speaker 1: crazy a story reported by her friends at USA Today.

388
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Speaker 1: I was so pissed. I texted Spencer this morning, was like,

389
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Speaker 1: how does the USA Today know about this? And we

390
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: don't know about it? He's like, because they got four

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Speaker 1: thousand reporters a black bear and what's date was this? Tennessee?

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Speaker 1: A black guy, Okay, a black bear gets a closed

393
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Speaker 1: car open, Yeah, which is not a usual? What is

394
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Speaker 1: the usual? What happens next? It's a hot ass day.

395
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Speaker 1: He gets the door open, gets in the car and

396
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: starts eating scraps, but the door closes behind him. It

397
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: gets up to a hundred degrees that day and kills

398
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Speaker 1: the bear inside the forty degrees in the car, and

399
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: the bear died inside the car of heat, like what

400
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: happens to people's dogs. And the weird part is then

401
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: the Fish and Game Agency uses it as a chance

402
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Speaker 1: for people to to not leave bear attract And so

403
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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, there's some ship in your

404
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: car which is closed. Counts is leaving bear attract and self, yeah,

405
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: you'd have to keep your car. My truck is littered

406
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: with bear attracted from all the crumbs and ship. My

407
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: kids leave everybody's cars. I just don't count that. I

408
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: don't count like your car and your driveway closed as

409
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: being like being not bear safe. You have to run

410
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: a pretty sterile car. But I get the sentiment they

411
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: think the thing got in there. This is weird. He

412
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: was in his car at ten am and he found

413
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: the bear dead at seven pm, middle of the damn day. Yeah,

414
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: ambient temperature. There's a picture of the bear kind of limp. Yeah,

415
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: another baby. I mean it's like every other days when

416
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: we get to Seth in a minute, here he'll be

417
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: able to speak to this. Not you, Seth Morris Seth.

418
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: Canada's gonna be a confusing podcast. It seems like every

419
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: other day this happens. A minor, a gold miner and Yukon,

420
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: the Yukon Territory of Canada found a thirty five thousand

421
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: year old mummified baby wool mammoth. That thing is so

422
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: that is bad ass with the big snout. What do

423
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: they call that? A proboscis? Is that called? They named

424
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: him none? None child hut long. I mean it looks

425
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: just like a little amaciated baby mammoth laid out on

426
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: a blue tart. Yeah, like everything else. When people find

427
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: something to far north, there's a high likelihood it will

428
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: wind up laying on a blue tart across anything like that. Um,

429
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: you guys are making me laugh because years ago I

430
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: started calling myself, you know, part part of the blue

431
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: tarp tribe. We lived along with South Tent City along

432
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: the edge of the cot Spy. There's North Tent City

433
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: in South Tent City. But we discovered blue tarps. I

434
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: think this is about thirty years ago. And take four

435
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: pieces of plywood and nailm together and um put a

436
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: blue tarp over. The only thing is that you look

437
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: funny because the light um, you know, under a blue

438
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: tarp And so anyway, we're the people of the blue

439
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: tarp um. Which but speaking of mammoth, uh, I brought

440
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: Karin a little chunk of mammoth ivory. I told her

441
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 1: be careful because very addictive searching for ivory. You just

442
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: that's choke of a manoth tusk. Yeah, that's blue. Is

443
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: Vivian night. It's a mineral that sort of deposits into

444
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: the soaks, into the ivory. And so it's every time

445
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: you find a piece of ivory, it's different color, either

446
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: real dark or brown. Or you didn't saying that? Did

447
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: you not at all know? It? Um like feels like polished.

448
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: Where do you find something like that a long river? Um? Well,

449
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: it's getting complicated nowadays because I think the state no

450
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,959
Speaker 1: longer once you picking it up in the in the

451
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: feds don't and um on native land. You you know,

452
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: if you're not native, you're you're not supposed to. It's

453
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: it's more, it's more complicated. I don't know the laws

454
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: about you know, mean high water, you know, sea level

455
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: along the shores. But people go along the shores looking

456
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: and um, um it's very common to find uh. I

457
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't say very common. You hear, oh, so and so

458
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 1: found h seven foot tusk or or whatever. And I

459
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: was on the coast looking and somebody just found a tusk.

460
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: And um. I was searching the smelting permafrost bluff and

461
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: came across this big round thing that I chipped out,

462
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: and it was a turd, um, mammoth turd. And so

463
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: I save myself by saying, I don't need the tusk.

464
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: Everybody finds tusks. It's not very many people find mammoth turds.

465
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: And um. So I carried it around it as a

466
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: black for a while. Um, and then uh sent it

467
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: to the university. They never thanked me for my ship.

468
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: It was super disturbing. I never did hear back. But

469
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: um anyway, yeah, searching for mammoth I was super super addictive.

470
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: We find these big molers. Those are pretty common to find.

471
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: Should have brought a picture of one of those. But yeah,

472
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: it's really fun. They say this, this one was the

473
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: best one found on the continent yet and it had

474
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: its last meal still in stomach. I guess what it

475
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: was eating, Yanni, mm hm, circus peanuts is eating grass.

476
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: Nebraska is introducing a uh you can read about this

477
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: at the medior dot com conservation. Wildlife Management. Nebraska introduces

478
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: controversial July elk season. Damn crop damage. Better have the

479
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: freezer ready, people. Yeah, people are bent out of shape.

480
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: Other people are not because they're just sick of losing

481
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: corn crops shooting them in land. They're they're working with

482
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: landowners to lower elker words and crop land areas. Colorado

483
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: used to have a spring summer crop damage hunt. The

484
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: elk are spending the elk are spending their summer in

485
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: the cornfields, not not dispersing until the corn is picked.

486
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: It's private land only hunt. Um. Even landowners have to

487
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: pay like ten or five bucks to get get a

488
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: depredation tag and then uh, it's open to residents and

489
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: non residents. Um. But you need to have prior permission

490
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: from a landowner in the areas that they're carrying on

491
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: the hunt in order to purchase a tag. I mean,

492
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: am I rot and maybe you know cow like it

493
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: seems like this is a part of the state where

494
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: they don't even really want a bunch of elk running

495
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: around in the first place, and that that's typically how

496
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, like the good folks at our m EF

497
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: can can tell you, like when they go in, when

498
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: I used to go in and do reintroductions of elk,

499
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 1: it is there's a very serious plan in place, like

500
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: these things. We want them to stay in between these

501
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: highways in this type of habitat because they're they're planning

502
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: ahead for this type of conflict. I think there's only

503
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: about three thousand elk in the in the whole state.

504
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: And you know, a July hunt with cows carrying calves

505
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: and a little soft horned bowls running around isn't as much, Uh,

506
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: isn't very romantic compared to the way we all want

507
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: to picture hunting milk. U. But this can be effective

508
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: for the folks are catering to here. Is it going

509
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: to be too effective? I think that's what some audience

510
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: members were kind of nervous about. Yeah, well that's I

511
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: mean that's like the great thing is that when it

512
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: gets in any of the stuff with like, well there's

513
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: too many, like according to who, right, Yeah, I wait

514
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: my whole life to you know whatever. Some person in

515
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: Nebraska be like, I've waited my whole life to hunt

516
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: elk Nebraska. It's native elk range. He thinks it's too

517
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: many because they're getting in his corner. I don't think

518
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: there's nearly enough. So it's like you're always gonna have that, right,

519
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: Like according to who, car insurance companies, crop insurance people,

520
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: the ornamental uh landscape industry, hoof, and people that don't

521
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: want lime disease we're talking about I mean before the

522
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: podcast too. It's there's all just as Steve's pointing out,

523
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: a lot of different stakeholders, and the really one of

524
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: the few stakeholders that I actually care about are the

525
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: folks who were like farming that ground. Well, you know,

526
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: during this huge period of elk being non existent, and

527
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: now somebody decided to put elk out there that are

528
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: causing significant damage to the way they're making a living,

529
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: and their whole business is based around or you know,

530
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: it was based with the idea of this type of

531
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: competition not being part of the business plan. And so

532
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: I do have some sympathy sympathy for those people that

533
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now here's this big X factor

534
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: that is growing like crazy on the landscape. Yeah, it

535
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: probably seems like pretty academic when you point out to

536
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: him that they used to be here, like define used

537
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: to then we're here in my grandpa like to first

538
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: turn the ground over, right, So what's used to me?

539
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeph Down there on the river they're pulling um uh

540
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: musk ox out of the river bank. They used to

541
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: be here. Sorry. Uh. One last thing be where we

542
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: get back into our esteemed guests. Broady, he's got a report.

543
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: How do you feel about hippie, Steve Dude, listen. I

544
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: like definition, though, well, when did the hippie ever do

545
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: anything bad to me? I don't know, never to some

546
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: people like if I could pick it and have it

547
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: be that most of the world was hippies, I like,

548
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: I don't find they don't like to hunt, generally speaking,

549
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: like I like when I wake up in the morning.

550
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: When I wake up in the morning, the last thing

551
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm on the lookout for is hippies. My buddy in

552
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: grade school, I had a shirt that you'd wear all

553
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: the time that said hippie smell. And he was always

554
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: very quick to point out that the shirt doesn't say

555
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: how they smell. Uh, my daughter, I don't know if

556
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: you know this, but Gilligan's Island hats are in style

557
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: for little kids, little girls, a little bucket hat. I

558
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: call him Gilligan hats. Now I call my daughter Gilligan.

559
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: Which pistols are off? I called her Clyde. I used

560
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: to call her slim and I called her Clyde. Now

561
00:34:53,960 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: it's Gilligan. But hers has a ammunitem ascaria like the

562
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: flying Garrick's hallucin and it's got that little hallucigenic jungle

563
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: frog on I was like, you know, your hat's got

564
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: twin hallucigenics on it. She's know what hallucigenic is? Shut up, dad,

565
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Who got that for? She bought it on

566
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: Amazon because yeah, because she's like, I thought it was

567
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: like a frog in them. It's like a Gilligan's Island hat.

568
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: And she thought it was a frog in a mushroom.

569
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: And I said, you know what that mushroom is like

570
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: that frog are She's on Amazon like a like an

571
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: eight dollar Gilligan's Island hat. I saw a T shirt

572
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: with those mushrooms on the really big ones on the

573
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: covering the whole back, and it said make America giggle again.

574
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: Now this is when hippies come for you. Well, yeah,

575
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: I got the dog people. Now the hippies are gonna

576
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: come for me. Um. There's a particular brand of hippie

577
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: called the Rainbow Family, Family of of being Light. They've

578
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: been around since Um. I used to live in Boulder.

579
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: We see these people all the time panhandling. Um. And

580
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: this group of people has what's called a range. You

581
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: know that they were from this group because they have

582
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: rainbow Yeah you just have you ever lived in a

583
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: state that was having a rainbow gathering going on? I know,

584
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: but Rony just said, I lived in Bolder and I'd

585
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: see them all the time. There's a residual effect. They're

586
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: there months before the gathering and then it takes a

587
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: month to disperse. It's a huge deal when the rainbow

588
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: gathering comes to town. Right, there's like a group that's

589
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: all the Rainbow children and Boulder that were like it

590
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: was like a known group of people. Anyway, they have

591
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: this deal every year where they called a rainbow gathering

592
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: where they get together on public land and it's generally

593
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: thousands of people. UM. This year's gathering was planned for

594
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: Adams Park, which is north Esteemboat Springs on the Medicine

595
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: Bow Route National Force UM, and they're thinking up to

596
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: ten thousand people will gather, not just people rainbow people.

597
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: Sounds like a care bear countdown. And uh, there's been

598
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: like an increasing concern about what kind of impact this

599
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: is going to have on public lank. They when they

600
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: did it near Missoula, Man, it was like a bio

601
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: has yeah yeah, and this is like an area that's

602
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: an important calving ground. UM. It's like very pristine public land.

603
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: And so there's been calls to uh kind of shut

604
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: this thing down. And generally speaking, when you have like

605
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: an organized event on public land, you need a permit

606
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: for it. And that's never like the Rainbow Gathering has

607
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: never been a permitted, like sanctioned event. UM. And the

608
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: Four Service took the step of closing Cow California Park,

609
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: which is near Adams Park where the event is going

610
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: to happen. I'm not sure why they didn't close Adams

611
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: Park where the event is happening, but they did shut

612
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: down an area near the gathering, and there's already been

613
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: some arrests, like people are already gathering there that the

614
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: event hasn't taken place yet. It will have happened by

615
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: the time this this podcast airs, but there's already been

616
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: arrest for various things. Um, let's see here. I appeal

617
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: logs with a dude named Barefoot, and he'd go to

618
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: the Rainbow gathering every year and he carried around when

619
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: he went there. Well, he always carried it around. He

620
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: carried around a black powder pistol revolver. It. It doesn't

621
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: surprise me. They've already had rest for damage the natural resources,

622
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: interoperable equipment, and ardocotics possession or distribution, aggravated assault on

623
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: a peace officer, felony possession of a firearm. So it

624
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like very hippie ish to me. Well, here's

625
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: the deal man, here's what you know. Why you know

626
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: how dog people don't like you even though you're a

627
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: dog person. You won't get feedback because the hippies aren't touchy.

628
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, they're not touchy people. I'm expecting some

629
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: feed now. I did this thing with Clay on Clay's

630
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: podcast and we were talking about how beekeepers are touchy

631
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: people because they all just got into it and they're

632
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,479
Speaker 1: all in a swinging dick contest to be who's most

633
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: into it. And people who enthusiasts who grew up doing

634
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: like nothing and then they start doing something become touchy.

635
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: Hippies aren't touching. You won't get feedback from hippies, but

636
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: they don't do anything. You got people who live their

637
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: whole life not knowing about some souped up breed a

638
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: bird dog. And also they're like Joe bird dog, They're

639
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: gonna be touchy. So I say this thing about beekeepers,

640
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: and then what did I make the mistake of looking

641
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: at social media comments? There's a comment from this guy like,

642
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: you don't stand up for hunters. You don't stand up

643
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: for the Second Amendment. You don't stick up for hunter

644
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: because you want them all to go away so you

645
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: can have all the area for yourself. I click on

646
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: this thing, beekeeper, We'll see, we'll see. I think like

647
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: they should be getting a permit for this. I mean

648
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: the amount of damage that ten thousand people can cause

649
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: just by walking through an area, the human waste. I've

650
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: seen what thirty people can do to my backyard in

651
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: the past few days. Do you work for bass pro Shops? No?

652
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: What is what the beast pro Shops had they send

653
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: They sent these to the office. Thought he walked out

654
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: to get married to have that is wearing a bass

655
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: pro Shop hat for the You ask Brodie if you

656
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: work for on X, if you don't know what the

657
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: rainbow gathering? Yes, and you want like an idea and

658
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: this will touch some people on our sphere and piss

659
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: a few folks off. If you've ever been in a

660
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: town where there's a three or five day fish concert,

661
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: that that will give you a taste of folks gathering

662
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: preve concert and taking days to get out and they

663
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: have like a very very noticeable look to them. We'll

664
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: take those guys three to five days to do one tune.

665
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: I just want to go on record before we leave

666
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: this subject. I want to go on record saying this.

667
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: I support hippies because I just don't see where the

668
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: problem is. But I don't support the rainbow gathering on

669
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: national on public land. And in the old days, in

670
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: the old days they went to a guy's farm. Yeah,

671
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: and outside of New York City, I think should go

672
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: back that I don't like public land rainbow gatherings. But

673
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: like I said, man, when I wake up in the morning,

674
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: the last thing I'm on the lookout for is a

675
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: hippie doing something to me, especially like the disenfranchised ones

676
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: that don't vote. I'm not worried about him doing something

677
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: to me because they say it's like I don't care.

678
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: Probably not good for the ECONO. They strike me as

679
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: people that don't listen to podcasts, so they're probably not

680
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: even gonna know that you're saying that. Hang out on Reddit.

681
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: We're ready to move on, all right, Seth Canner. We're

682
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: gonna start out with. What are we gonna start out with?

683
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: It's our Alaskan sampler platter. We're ready, man, are you gosh? Uh?

684
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: It's still I'm kind of uncomfortable with this hippie thing

685
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: because my parents were accused of being hippie down the

686
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: middle of the woods. Well not at all. I think

687
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: they were trying to get away from people, but they were.

688
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: I think they were hippies. And none of them, those

689
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: people that went north with them smoked or drank or um.

690
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: But they did, uh, I guess not cut their hair

691
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: as often as other people should. I should someone on

692
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: record saying that I got no problem with we're we're

693
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: talking specifically the rainbow family of living life. What do

694
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: you think Seth made him hippies? Yeah? Why do you

695
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: feel because your dad was your dad was came up

696
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: north as a caribou biologist, right. No, he uh was

697
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: born and raised in Toledo and was trying to get

698
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: away from Toledo and and then Catholic school, and so

699
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: he went to UH seventeen years old, went to the

700
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: territory Alaska and UM and UH applied for college UM

701
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: and then studied UH zoology and biology. And then along

702
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: came Project Chariot, where they were going to bomb use

703
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons Obama Harbor up in the northern part of Alaska.

704
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: So he got a job studying cariboo at that point

705
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: because they were like they were trying to do baseline

706
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: work on what that they were trying to do. What

707
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: you should explain, like when once we get into our sampler,

708
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: you should explain Project Chariot. I had heard of that,

709
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: but until I read your book, I didn't really understand

710
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: the details of it. It's some you know, right, I'm

711
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: fighting the Sambler Road that they want to build through

712
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: the brooks range from the pipeline road to you know,

713
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: basically where I live, and they want to come all

714
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: the way across. Yeah, and I equate that as dropping

715
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: a bomb on the native culture and the way of

716
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: life in the in the wilderness country there. Um. But

717
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: in the fifties, uh, United States had all these nice

718
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: new weapons, uh, and then nobody to drop them on

719
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: hydrogen bombs and atomic bombs. And so they started this

720
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: Plowshares program, which was hypothetically to do uh, peaceful work

721
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: with nuclear weapons. They build a canal and a new

722
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: Panama canal or and so they decided, well, Alaska Territory

723
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: would be perfect place to uh, let's make a harbor

724
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: with five or six nuclear weapons. And that was near

725
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: where I grew up. I wasn't born that then, And

726
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: and so my dad ended up going north from you know,

727
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: Fairbanks where he was working as a biologists up to

728
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: the Arctic to study the effects of radiation on caribou.

729
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: Other people were studying you know, walruses and and native

730
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: use of the land and food and resources there, and

731
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: and it was it was touching go the um this

732
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: this Alaska became a state nineteen fifty nine, and so

733
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: right in there was this giant alleged economic opportunity to

734
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: you know, get nuked. Um and uh so there's a

735
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: lot of people were for it, and um. Of course,

736
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: uh the natives were not because they were about to

737
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: get their you know, their backyard bombed. But for a

738
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: while their their voices were more sort of muted and um.

739
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: But anyway it was stopped. Um, and that didn't happen.

740
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: It certainly would have my life would have been totally different.

741
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: Bombed northwest Alaska to make it a better place. Have

742
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: you ever seen images of the creators they made in

743
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: Bikinia Toll? Absolutely unbelievable. Man, it looks like the blue hole.

744
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: And at that time that um, I'm gonna lose my

745
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: numbers here. But the radiation that was there was so

746
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: much fallout from the Americans and Soviet testing weapons that

747
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: that caribou were um kind of radioactive because they eat lins.

748
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: The primary favorite food is this this lin that absorbs um.

749
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting the ces M one for I can't remember

750
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: that at this point. But anyway, one of these isotopes

751
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 1: that would leach out of the atmosphere like and would

752
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: absorb it and caribou, we'd eat it. And then of

753
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: course our whole focus was fat, so we would eat

754
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: tons of caribou that our bio concentrating this um this

755
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: radiation and um um the fat store that. Yeah. And

756
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: then if you have a bear, um, if a bear

757
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 1: eats the fat, then and we're all say about rendering

758
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: out bear fat and making you know, whatever we made

759
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 1: with the bear fat. So um um. In my young life,

760
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: the people that went north with my parents, Um, they

761
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: were tested and I guess they're like you're describing earlier,

762
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: super high and uh in radiation, living out this uh

763
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: this semi hippie sorry, um this wilderness Uh, strange white

764
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: people living in the wilderness. Uh uh. We never used

765
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: the word wilderness. We're scared of that word, but I'm

766
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: using it now. But um, living out off the land

767
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: and then you know, uh, far higher than somebody in Chicago,

768
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: probably on the glow in the dark, seemingly the most pure,

769
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: the most pure food and most pure existence. You guys

770
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: didn't like the word wilderness because you didn't like federally

771
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: designated wilderness. Uh. In my life, as things are changing fast,

772
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: pipeline was being built, which you know, made the Native

773
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: Claim Settlement Act was necessary, so UM, the land up

774
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: there would have a title ownership. Somebody could say who

775
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: owned what, so then we could start tearing it up,

776
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: um and um. At that time, living out, we just

777
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: thought of UM. We were people on the land. We

778
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: cut wood for firewood, We hunted, uh, you know, bears

779
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: for skins and fat or whatever, and um, and we didn't.

780
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't wilderness. We were there and then, and the

781
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: natives had no this was home. They knew you had

782
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: named for every slough and lake and and sandbar where

783
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: you caught this and that, and so it wasn't wilderness

784
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: in our mind. And the only time we heard that

785
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: word was when strange white people landed and started talking

786
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: about what we were not allowed to do. UM. So

787
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: wilderness was a dangerous word. Um and uh. At some

788
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: point five or ten years ago, as asked to talk about, uh,

789
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: you know what the Wilderness Act meant to me? Of

790
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: course I've never heard of it, um and UM. I

791
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: was there with UM four tall white ladies and twice

792
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: as tall as me and um, and they were describing

793
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: you know this very interesting um effects of the Wilderness Act.

794
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, when was from Chicago. I had

795
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: grown up in uh, Colorado and etcetera. And and then

796
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: along comes my turn. I went last, you know, and

797
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we were I don't know, we're

798
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: always scared. He it was it was, you know, white

799
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: people coming from somewhere else, and then um terrifying us. Yeah,

800
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: we were my family. Um speaking of hippies, Um, um,

801
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: sorry that they did. You know, reading your book, man,

802
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: I kind of got like a mild hippie vibe, but

803
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: I didn't get a total hippie vibe off your parents. Well,

804
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: because they were like hunters and trappers. Sure, but my

805
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: dad has devoted his life to avoiding a steady job.

806
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: Does that count? No? Oh? Okay, um that that that

807
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: the hippies do not in my mind we're talking about

808
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: it very hard to define. Tournament in my mind, planned

809
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: by your own rules is not owned by hippies. Okay, okay,

810
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know any I didn't

811
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: know fishing talk about people who love anything you're saying

812
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: talking about people who um first and foremost. When looking

813
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: for an explanation to an unanswered question, if you told

814
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: him there's a conspiracy that they're like, well, that's what

815
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: I believe before you finish the sentence. Okay, that's so.

816
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: I guess we weren't. Yeah, we weren't hippies, but it

817
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: was that time frame though, right, Yeah, I definitely was.

818
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: I think the people that were doing, um, they're back

819
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: they're part of the back of the Land, They're extreme

820
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: edge of the back of the Land movement. Yeah, it was.

821
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 1: It was I mean, barefoot kids and living in a cave.

822
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, so, um, I guess you I don't

823
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: know what to call it. It was home really nice.

824
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: But he was But but you're old man. He's not

825
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: trying to just like and understanding your biography, Like I

826
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: don't want to go back all to Toledo, but you're

827
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: old man. Became like your father, right, became familiar with

828
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: the area that he would homestead and claim through that

829
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: through the caribou work, right, my mistake, Um sort of. Yeah.

830
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: So he got done that summer working with the other battlegists,

831
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: and he had spotted this sided glue on the coast

832
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: right next to the ground zero where they were gonna

833
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: bomb that, you know, and uh, he got his stuff

834
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: and went to live there for the winter. And when

835
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: he got there, Uh typical of you know when you

836
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: get home and you find a porcupine in your house

837
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um there was um a native couple who

838
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: had decided they going to spend the winter there. And

839
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: so my dad was like, oh, you know, he's not

840
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: gonna um invade you know, their territory. It was an

841
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: abandoned sod house. But they were like, they couldn't really

842
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: speak English, but they thought, yeah, the old inn you

843
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: pack extreme generosity is important. And you're you're about to

844
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: spend the winter and h sade igloo as big as

845
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: your average bath room, and they said you should stay.

846
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: So along comes this white guy who's gonna sleep on

847
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: their floor for the winner. And and so he uh

848
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 1: spent the winter hunting for this couple. The man had

849
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: you know, one leg, and the woman was u uh

850
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: not young and and so um here's this energetic, young

851
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: white guy that wants to learn the old ways and

852
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: and um and was willing to go out every day

853
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: to hunt for the dogs, dog teams and the and

854
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: the people and and so he got UM. I think

855
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: I would just say terribly enamored with old Innu pac

856
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: way of life. Just the connection, the hunting every day.

857
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: Harsh life, but um simplicity, I guess, and and so um,

858
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: you know he went back to Fairbanks and and more

859
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: or less you know, uh got my mom and they

860
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: went north and build a sad iglo and started that life, um,

861
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: which was you know, using caribou sinu for thread and

862
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: and sewing muck lux out of uger steel, um tied

863
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: in caribou and um, just the old ways. We just

864
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: had dried fish for lunch and and seal oil and

865
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: and uh whipped caribou fat and I could go on

866
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: and um that was the life. You guys. When you

867
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: were a kid, you guys traveled by dog team day

868
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: you Yeah, but was that was that like a was

869
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: that sort of like a like a conscious decision to

870
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: do something in old way because you were sort of

871
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: like your age would have been where dog teams were

872
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: definitely on the way out. Absolutely. I was born in

873
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: nineteen and it was like dead nuts on the arrival

874
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: of snowmobiles, and and pretty quick into that, my dad

875
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: got rid of his uh his dogs, and and I

876
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: think it was bothering him shooting uh, you know, a

877
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: hundred caribou of fall for for dog food. Um. Uh,

878
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: Well that was people food and dog food, but um,

879
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: yeah it was. And they didn't have they didn't have

880
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: much when they arrived, so they didn't have fish nets webbing,

881
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, to catch the very reliant Yeah, and and

882
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: and everybody was uh, I shouldn't say everybody. You know,

883
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: the villagers were way ahead of my family as far

884
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: as catching fish. Pretty quickly we got um uh fish nets.

885
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 1: And then my dad got a stone bile archaic bowlands

886
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: with the track in the front and a seat that

887
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: drugged behind on wooden skis and it was terrifying machine.

888
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: But um and then I think we didn't have a

889
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: dog's again in Toil, maybe I was eight. I wanted

890
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: to have dogs, and so I got dogs and built

891
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: my own sled and started using a super small dog

892
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: team for uh trapping, and uh, we didn't have neighbors,

893
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, my dogs were kind of my friends.

894
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't allowing the house or anything, but

895
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: um um hunting and every day and trapping and and

896
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: all that was you know what I did. We Uh

897
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: it was kind of substitute for go and senior neighbors

898
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: or whatever you said. So you didn't have neighbors, Um,

899
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: how did your parents like learn all those skills? Were

900
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: they learning from locals or trial and error or um

901
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: I gotta get back to the hippie thing for a minute.

902
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: So um, during about the time I was four, a

903
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: bunch I think there was as many as maybe fifteen

904
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: or so people living in little Sadi glues around us.

905
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: So we did have a brief time of neighbors. Um.

906
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: These were what we call commune. Yeah. Yeah, these were

907
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: what we at home call white people. Um. And so

908
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: outsiders you refer to yourselves as white people, Um, yes, Um.

909
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: But it's a weird mix because when I'm out on

910
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: the country even now with my friends, Um, if you

911
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: lift up your binkoclers and you're like, hey, look like

912
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: white people. Um, that's how I grew up. So it's

913
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: weird to be standing with your innu pact friends and

914
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, you, how come there's white people over

915
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: there and and there's me and um, so I kind

916
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: of um, um, I don't know. I guess, as Sarah

917
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: Palin would say, I shuck and jib um that I

918
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: don't know, Um where that fits in? But my myself

919
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: where I fit in? It's it's hard to uh, I mean,

920
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: I feel white outsider ish a lot. And then other

921
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: times I'm like, hey, I don't you know, I get

922
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: uncomfortable when I see uh this outsiders. But I really

923
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: want to explain that it's um, it's just sort of

924
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: a sloppy term, like so many other things. And part

925
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: of that you're talking about hippies. It says it's a

926
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: loose uh, you can accuse somebody of something and not

927
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: really be careful with it. And and so um, there's

928
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: a lot of comedy involved in the village. Some um

929
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: black guy showed up a school teacher and and the um,

930
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: the kids were calling him a honky um and uh,

931
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:39,439
Speaker 1: and it was just they didn't know um. And so yeah,

932
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: I've I've been called that a ton of times, you know,

933
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: and for you know, everything, you get called everything. But um, um,

934
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: I guess that if a person, let's just say, an

935
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: Asian person showed up, they would be referred to as

936
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: white people, which is just an euphemism, a broad a

937
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: broad euphemism for outsider. That makes sense. So so it's

938
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: almost become a joke in a way. It's a sloppy term.

939
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I grew up um kind of a

940
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: weird mix of that where, um, if you know, if

941
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: somebody looks at you a mile way through the binoculars,

942
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, you're one thing, and then you walk over,

943
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: oh you know you're um, you're into the your local

944
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, and didn't recognize you. Um. That was a

945
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: long winded explanation of the tip of the iceberg as

946
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: far as race relations at home. But um, yeah, anyway,

947
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: so my parents went north. Um, I think part of

948
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: that back to the land movement, but at that time

949
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: we're so focused on it that um uh, it's almost

950
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: like in the village is the inn impact population was

951
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: looking forward at modernity, blue jeans and plywood and and

952
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: whatever else in my family was you know, actively looking

953
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: back and and saying, oh, yeah, we'll stick with kerosene

954
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: lamps or or um. Were you guys regarded by Native

955
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: Alaskans as like did they sort of like recognize the

956
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: movement your family was part of. Was there enough of

957
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: that going on that they're like, oh, there's these white

958
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: people showing up on the landscape trying to sort of

959
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: like act like how we lived years ago. Yeah, things

960
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: are complicated. I want to catch you for a second, because, uh,

961
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: you said something about your family went there and claimed

962
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: homestead and all that. My parents didn't claim the land

963
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: because they wanted to be like natives. The natives didn't

964
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: have ownership of land. Um. And so my parents actively

965
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: didn't claim the land, which was a huge mistake, but

966
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: they didn't. And then very quickly that that ended. Um

967
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: and uh. And then they found out their mistake because

968
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: we're on the BLM burn list and they were gonna

969
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: come if they could get our sod iglu to burn,

970
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: which is doubtful because it was sort of damp, but um,

971
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: they were burning people's cabins out at that time. And um,

972
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: these hippie squatters. Um. So I've never owned the land.

973
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: Um and and and now I'm I think I'm the

974
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: last person in Alaska who has a National Park Service

975
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 1: permit to reside where I was born and raised. Which

976
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: is some writer that I think Senator Ted Stevens put

977
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: into a NILKA the Native Claim Settlement Act. Um. So

978
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: your daughter will lose, yeah, that's the idea, yeah, which

979
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: is is not does lose at home? Yeah, um, which

980
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: is home to her too. And and then you know

981
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: to get back to really if you die, they destroy it. Uh. Yeah,

982
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: that's the idea. Yeah, I think I'm supposed to when

983
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm about ninety, I'm supposed to destroy it before I die,

984
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: so like your last act before you die. Well that's

985
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: why I'm always picking my trash. Otherwise I just leave

986
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: it on the ground. No, kid, really, I didn't realize

987
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: that you guys didn't do I just I don't know

988
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: why I assumed that they did the homes toad because

989
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: then I noticed that, like you still hang out there

990
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: and your daughter hangs out there, and yeah, I just

991
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, I just spent a break up there, but

992
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, not very long before before coming here. You know,

993
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: never saw a person the whole time. And it's in

994
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it's like the um. You know,

995
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: it hasn't changed that much. You know, my companions are

996
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: in Cariboo and bears walking around, et cetera. But um,

997
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: then in other ways, there's a lot of you know,

998
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: um land claims and permits and rules Alaska. You probably

999
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: know this, but it's real weird that way um up

1000
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: there in the Arctic. Uh, there's a ton of rules

1001
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: written on paper about that land. But the paper is

1002
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: far away somewhere else, and we don't know anything about

1003
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: it and kind of do what we used to do. Question.

1004
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask that did your family when

1005
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: you were younger, did they have like interactions or run

1006
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: ins with federal officials like trying to get you to Yeah,

1007
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: that was yeah, the blm uh first, but then more

1008
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: of that was the precursor to the National Park Service.

1009
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: Was was showing up and pretty terrifying. You know, plane

1010
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: land on the ice and these big white guys walk

1011
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: up the hill and start telling us that basically we

1012
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: were you know, might have to move. And that's what

1013
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: I grew up with. Lots of like fear of the parks. Yeah, yeah,

1014
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: fear of yeah, lots of things. But um, but I

1015
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: would say that the natives had that too, I mean

1016
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: they did. Is that, um, you've got thousands of years

1017
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: is living on the land here and then and then

1018
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: the plane comes and they say what you can't and

1019
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: can't do? And it just all sounds very confusing until

1020
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: the plane flies away and then it's not confusing anymore.

1021
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: What okay, when you mentioned when you when you when

1022
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: you were young and you guys are living off caribou

1023
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: and you had a dog team, Uh, was there a

1024
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: regulatory structure in place at all, Like if a family

1025
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: is going through a hundred caribou, I mean you're not

1026
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: out putting metal locking tags on the things. Like was

1027
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: there any sort of regulatory structure in place that you

1028
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: were aware of in those days? Okay, so me, I

1029
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: was a little kid, you know, just chewing on a

1030
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: bone or something. So now I wasn't aware. Um, my

1031
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: dad may or may not have gotten a hunting license.

1032
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: I assume he would try, but I don't know how

1033
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: you'd go about it because Juno is, you know, about

1034
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: as close as Miami. Um, local people certainly didn't get

1035
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: hunting licenses, and it was, um just such a weird

1036
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: idea that you'd have to get a license to hunt.

1037
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm trying to come up with an analogy, but um,

1038
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: no I understand the analogy. What I'm I'm asking like

1039
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: a very buying. I'm asking like a very like I'm

1040
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,439
Speaker 1: not talking about pertate of Alaska. Have some I said,

1041
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: had I gone, had I gone to Juno? And I

1042
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: had said, and I had said, I'm living where you.

1043
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: Let's say you had gone, your dad had gone to Juno.

1044
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm saying, what was whether it was regarded or not regarded,

1045
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: and I'm not like saying that it should have been.

1046
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: I can't answer that real easy. I have no idea. Okay,

1047
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: uh no, I think, Um, yes, there was game management

1048
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: units already set up, I think. And and if you

1049
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: went down to the forty mile herd or something, there

1050
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: was probably a bag limits and and more accessible. Yeah.

1051
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: And everybody was supposed to get a a hunting license.

1052
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: And I think as a so called outsider or whatever,

1053
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: if you had flown to the northwest Arctic, you probably

1054
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: would have had a limit of such and such amount

1055
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: of cariboo locally, I don't think there was limits. I

1056
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: think you could. You could choot cows, calves, bowls, as

1057
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: many as you want it. Um. And And then when

1058
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: in the seventies when they had a photo census where

1059
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: they fly over and the caribou aggregate in the middle

1060
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 1: of July, where there's some at times, you know, a

1061
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: hundred thousand or more in a in a tight mass,

1062
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: they would take pictures of those. You count the cariboo

1063
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: in the picture. That's the short version of the photo census.

1064
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: And um, in the seventies they came up with this

1065
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: very very low number of I'm gonna say, seventy five

1066
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: thousand caribou for the Western art occurred and they promptly

1067
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 1: cut us from unlimited to one per hunter per year. Yeah,

1068
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: which was in my book. I use this uh analogy

1069
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: of like you'd be allowed one blueberry, um, so you've

1070
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: you know, you've always picked blueberries and then suddenly you're

1071
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: only allowed one um and um and people were you know,

1072
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: terrified and confused and um. And then we that at

1073
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: that point we were ish. We not me as a kid,

1074
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: but my dad was issued this little locking silver thing

1075
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 1: which was very uh fancy, nice piece of metal with

1076
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: some numbers on it. But people didn't always click that

1077
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: thing together because you needed to carry when you got

1078
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: your next caribou. Um and UM. Yeah, I think this.

1079
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, there's lots of different ways of seeing things.

1080
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: But I suspect the the state of Alaska miss some

1081
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 1: cariboo in their photo census. And I also suspect that

1082
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: at that time, with the introduction of um, you know

1083
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: more uh many fourteens and and and not too long

1084
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: after that Air fifteen with rapid shooting uh small caliber bullets,

1085
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: and then stomobiles had just derived, which was changed you know,

1086
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: our our relationship immensely with the with the natural world,

1087
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: like you didn't need to wait for caribou to come

1088
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, yeah, and go further and faster. And

1089
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: so I suspect there was two things going on. There

1090
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 1: was that the cariboo were dropping in numbers, and the

1091
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: statement might have missed some, but it was a good

1092
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: time to wake up and say, okay, maybe we need

1093
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: to um not just shoot every cariboo we feel like

1094
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: at all times, all seasons, you know. So it was

1095
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: just a little rough the way it went about you

1096
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: fish commercially? Now, yeah, does what is the fishing you

1097
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: described when you're when you when your family was living

1098
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: out in the land, you described a need to get

1099
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: like like learning how to get nets and fish. What

1100
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: was that fishing? And then what does the fishing you

1101
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: do now? Oh? Interesting? Yeah, so um um, I say,

1102
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, when we get done commercial fish and we

1103
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: go back up river and immediately set all our nets

1104
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: for for a non commercial But um my dad and

1105
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: um mom, I guess fished out of cots Abue in

1106
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: the late fifties, I think it was or nineteen sixty,

1107
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: right around then, and there was a canary. Um, I

1108
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: think you got the thirty five cents of fish and

1109
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: they made a hundred dollars for the season or something,

1110
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: and so people kind of discovered fishing was it was

1111
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: real hard to get cash. Then it was either whitefish

1112
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: or in salm salmon, and so they didn't fish for

1113
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: another twelve years in that fishery went up. You know,

1114
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: we lived up the river, up the Kobuk River, which

1115
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 1: is like a hundred and fifty river miles from from

1116
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: Cotsebue where the fishery is. So they never fished again

1117
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: until I think nineteen seventy four. My dad built applywood

1118
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: boat and we went down and lived in a tan

1119
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: and fished uh ninety four and and they grossed like

1120
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars or something, which we had never heard

1121
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: of that much money before. Um he built he built

1122
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: the boat up yeah yeah, in Ambler or near the

1123
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: village of Ambler, and ordered marine plywood and et cetera,

1124
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: and then then took the boat down river, down the river.

1125
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: He has uh maybe two hundred miles down the river

1126
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: and across Kobac like camp the camp ten miles across

1127
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: from cotsbu at a fish camp, and and back then

1128
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 1: if you wanted green American cash. There weren't too many

1129
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 1: ways of getting it, and commercial fishing was one. Fishing

1130
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: was becoming. Uh the price was great then it was

1131
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: like fifty cents a pound for salmon, which is it's

1132
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: not even That's about where we're at today. And you

1133
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: guys using like drift gillnets, uh, set nets, hang your

1134
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: own nets and um and set we were allowed nine

1135
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: feet of it. And you guys were sitting here talking

1136
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: about fishing earlier, and I didn't understand it. Gosh starn

1137
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: thing you were saying nothing. Um, but my idea of

1138
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 1: sport fishing is to set six or nine feet of

1139
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 1: I'm joking about the sport. But I love commercial fishing

1140
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: and super exciting and especially when the fish are hitting,

1141
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: but set and that effective. Um. Yeah, So when your

1142
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: parents were commercial fishing, were they doing it themselves? Are

1143
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: working for no? Okay? So I didn't answer either one

1144
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: of your questions, but so we would. We started doing

1145
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: that as a as a way to trap in the winner.

1146
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: My dad would make a dog sledge or some um

1147
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: sleds that people towed behind their snowmobiles, sort of like

1148
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 1: a dog sled for cash. And then the summer we

1149
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: go down and commercial fish for for cash, and it

1150
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: was all pretty feeble, but would end up with you know,

1151
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: some actual money. But they're running their own operations. Yeah,

1152
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: everybody's doing their own things small super small boats. And

1153
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 1: then uh, come late August, we would put the dogs

1154
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: and the family and the tents and head up river.

1155
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: And my dad's boat was like four ft long, thirty

1156
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: five horse. Three days a holding the tiller to get

1157
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: home and then unload the dogs. And then we would

1158
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: spend the next eleven or ten and a half months

1159
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: at our house, pretty much staying home because he didn't

1160
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 1: want to you know, buy gas and and travel. We

1161
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: would go to Ambler, that closest village five miles away,

1162
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: but we would go oh once or twice a winner,

1163
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: and you know, once or twice by boat, and and

1164
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 1: so they're at home. Uh, back to your original question.

1165
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: As soon as we got home, we put nets out

1166
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 1: and started once again gathering fish and um. Yeah, and

1167
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: then at that point cariboo would be crossing, so we

1168
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: would get a couple uh to eat and dry and whatever.

1169
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: You just oh, if there's cariboo, well we need food.

1170
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: But we would kind of hold off on the winter

1171
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: supply of cariboo until late September when it's cold enough,

1172
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: because we didn't have electricity, so we didn't have freezer.

1173
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 1: So everything had to line up with the season and

1174
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: every even every season, and about hunting different things when

1175
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: they're fat, when they taste good, when the fur is good,

1176
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 1: and then when you can keep it. And there's just

1177
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: really no use in boating home on August shooting a

1178
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 1: bunch of caribou because their flies were out and it

1179
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: was too warm. And what was the you guys do

1180
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: at home? You do whitefish or salmon or what. Along

1181
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: the river there is grailing trout, trout which would be

1182
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 1: Arctic char, salmon, she fish, pike, mud shark which is

1183
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: a bourbon like you guess called mud sharks. That's a

1184
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: great name. Yeah, I don't know, I got it's a

1185
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: very confusing fish names. Yeah. Well, at home we call

1186
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: them ticktalic, which is that's the innu pack word, and

1187
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: so that's kind of ticktalic. You can find it in

1188
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: my book. And so I have a hobby of collect

1189
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 1: bourbon names. Oh yeah, oh, well, there's such a great fish.

1190
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: I love hooking them. We hook them through the ice

1191
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: in October and at night, lay on a caribou hide

1192
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: and look slowly freeze ass as you When I when

1193
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 1: I told someone I have a brother, that I have

1194
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: a brother lives in anchors. When I told him that

1195
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: you were coming to do a show, and he said,

1196
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: if you can get he told me, if you can

1197
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: get one thing out of this, you need to get

1198
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: out of this. An invitation to fish. She fish through

1199
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: the ice? Oh yeah, absolutely. It was like he was

1200
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: like strongly encouraging me to lean on you for that opportunity.

1201
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: He just did that, like, yeah, I just said a

1202
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: net to bring her a fish. I guess maybe I

1203
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 1: should have brought you, but I assumed you had already.

1204
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: He know, he wants you. He wants me to make

1205
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: you take me rotting and reeling for she fish through

1206
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 1: the ice. Well, we just used a stick with the line.

1207
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. The open water she

1208
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: fish is like he fishes those I mean, washing him,

1209
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 1: jumping stuff. But he thinks that the the epitome she

1210
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: They're not in it for this, the epitome of she fishing.

1211
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 1: He likes she fish, all right, but the epitome of

1212
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: shea fishing would be she fish through the ice. I

1213
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 1: guess I kind of agree. I have a hard time

1214
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:16,560
Speaker 1: with the hook and line thing that you cast and

1215
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: tangles up and then I don't know, man, Yeah, I know,

1216
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: hold on a second, somebody takes your hook or hooks

1217
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: on it. Well, I just it's all. I was listening

1218
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 1: to you guys, and I know it's fun. We used

1219
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: to do it, but I'm not good at it. But

1220
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 1: hooking through the ice, to me, makes more sense because

1221
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 1: you've got a stronger line and you got you got

1222
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: to make sure the hole is big enough otherwise you

1223
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: can't get it. Yeah, they get up to what like

1224
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: sixty pounds or bigger maybe I don't know. I don't

1225
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 1: weigh things or stuff like that, but they're big. Yeah.

1226
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: Sure you a picture here afterwards. But how many feet

1227
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 1: long is a big shea fish? Probably four out of

1228
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: at all whitefish man white fish family, I think, I

1229
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, at all those different fish that your

1230
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: family would catch and late summer, what was your favorite?

1231
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: What we really liked? What we called trout, and it's

1232
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: Arctic char. At that time, we didn't know that, and

1233
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: we called them either a mean trout or a nice trout.

1234
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: Um and the mean trout is when it spawned out,

1235
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 1: and it's kind of bright right right, and long and

1236
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: skinny and of course back to fat, which is very important.

1237
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: If it wasn't fat, it was you know, dog food. Um.

1238
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: And so the mean trout were skinny and we thought

1239
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 1: they were different trout and it turned out they're not.

1240
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 1: They're just they go for eighteen months without eating and

1241
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: all and stuff and and trout or arctics are amazing.

1242
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: But like I think it pretty much is. But you

1243
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 1: have to check with the run um. Well, we're gonna

1244
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 1: lose track of this whole show if you start talking

1245
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 1: about it. You got a question for you. The fish,

1246
01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: the varieties of fish you would net in August, You

1247
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: were able to dry those fish? Yeah, we start trying

1248
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 1: to dry. It was hard because we were not yet

1249
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 1: people of the Blue tart Um, which is really import Yeah,

1250
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: we always had fish tracks, but but trying to cover

1251
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: them and what to cover them with. But is that

1252
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: because the blue tart wasn't around yet. It wasn't around yet.

1253
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: Everything was pretty It's it's shocking to think about how

1254
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: different it is with all this the ship we have nowadays,

1255
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: like plastic bags. Well, where you going to get those

1256
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: fifty years ago. And and that brings me to a

1257
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: question too about and sorry to regress a little bit,

1258
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: but about your dad deciding at some point he decided

1259
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 1: to try to make some American cash. Yeah, so it

1260
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: was like a dilemma for him. No, he wasn't he

1261
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: didn't have it wasn't a hippie in the sense that

1262
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 1: he didn't want cash. He just didn't want a job. Um.

1263
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: And to him, a job separates you from life. He

1264
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: wanted to live and be out on the land and stuff.

1265
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 1: And so if uh, you know, when links became very valuable,

1266
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: we trapped links. Um Uh. He didn't like bothering the

1267
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 1: wolves much, which was a personal thing, maybe because they

1268
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 1: were hunting much like he was, you know, walking a

1269
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: lot and out on the land every day. But um,

1270
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: we trapped wolverine and and when foxes, when they first

1271
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 1: got their foxes were worth nothing. And then as an

1272
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 1: eight year old, I trapped some foxes and sent them

1273
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 1: to gosh was it called Goldberg's. I'm trying to remember now,

1274
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: But anyway, we went of the fur buyers and I

1275
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: got like sixty ninety bucks apiece, and my whole family

1276
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: took notice's we trapped foxes for the next because the

1277
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: guys needed money to buy gas or tools or whatever.

1278
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't put it in the bank. Yeah, yeah. It

1279
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: was crazy. Thing was we um, I mean we made

1280
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 1: our own dog collars and harnesses and sleds and tow

1281
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 1: lines and we anything that was what we called store

1282
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 1: bought very suspicious and the family had to have a

1283
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: big discussion about whether you're gonna spend any money, which

1284
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: was the final answer was no, so you might as

1285
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 1: well not have the discussion. But but they did order,

1286
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: um um, they did order stuff. It was real long

1287
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: process to you know, basically get to the village, take

1288
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 1: an envelope and mail it to you. Probably, I mean

1289
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 1: probably you guys probably bought a stove, cookwere white gas, yeah,

1290
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,799
Speaker 1: white gas for sure, kerosene um, and you know, coffee

1291
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: and sugar and flour. And then as the years went

1292
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: by and we started commercial fishing and had money, uh,

1293
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, they'd order potatoes from Palmer, Alaska, and we

1294
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 1: we plan a garden so we'd grow that potatoes also.

1295
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 1: But then uh vanilla for you know, making snow ice

1296
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 1: cream and powdered milk, and we just more and more

1297
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: stuff but but nothing like just walking in the store

1298
01:18:54,560 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: and filling your shopping cart. My parents were pretty much like, um,

1299
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: don't waste was well, they were you know, they were

1300
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: depressionary era people. They grew up in uh my dad,

1301
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the Depression and World

1302
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,719
Speaker 1: War two. Um, and so there was already that pretty

1303
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: strong don't waste. And then you go far enough north

1304
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 1: and trying to get up a pound of butter was

1305
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 1: complex experience. And so as kids, which you if your

1306
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 1: hippies indoctrinating your kids out in the wilderness so called wilderness,

1307
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: you can um tell them, oh, don't use that, don't

1308
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 1: use that, and don't cut string, and no you're not

1309
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: allowed to use any nails. But if you find a

1310
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: bad one, we'll discuss whether you're allowed to have it.

1311
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: Um um so um. Yeah. It was a lot of

1312
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 1: everything was sort of in this don't waste. But you

1313
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 1: certainly were caribou hides that wasn't in the uh you

1314
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,679
Speaker 1: use those for whatever you want. That was your blue target.

1315
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 1: Yeah that was yeah. Well yeah, so anything you want

1316
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: to do with the caribou hide was pretty much open season.

1317
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: And your book, I'm surprised by the amount of Um,

1318
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: this is gonna segue into you're given us some of

1319
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: that food you got there. But the amount of boiled

1320
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: meat you guys eat boiled joints and boiled feet and

1321
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: like a lot of boiled meat. Not a lot of

1322
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: deep frying going on. No, yeah, there was a lot

1323
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: of and uh, you know the local thing is like

1324
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 1: caribou soup is is just a standard as his. He

1325
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: catch a trout at home, you give it to an elder.

1326
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 1: They're gonna make soup out of it, with the skin

1327
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: on and all the bones and stuff, and and certain

1328
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: people are like, cool, that's not what I would have

1329
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 1: done with that fish. But um, but um, yeah, maybe

1330
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: that was a certain amount of ease. Or you've got

1331
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 1: the witch dove going and you talk about the waist.

1332
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: So because like you guys described taking sort of like

1333
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: carribout pelvis is oh, and just put that pelvis into

1334
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 1: pot and boil it until he could. Oh, I'm getting

1335
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 1: ready in salt white people, I can't believe at home

1336
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: if you leave the bones, well, let's just back up here.

1337
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 1: At home, we look at the rear end of the

1338
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:10,599
Speaker 1: animal caribou to see if it's fat, and we kind

1339
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: of joked that the white guy or the outsiders are

1340
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: looking at the antlers. Well, we're not looking at the

1341
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 1: antlers where it's got to be fat. And then, um,

1342
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 1: the fat is you know, maybe back fat or or

1343
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: stomach fat or whatever a chark, you know, the lacey

1344
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: fat around the intestines. But um, the bones are where

1345
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: the flavor and the fat is. And so there's just

1346
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: so many stories of um, you know, some old innu

1347
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: pack elderly woman just disgusted with her daughter bringing home

1348
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: a white boyfriend and he goes out hunting and brings

1349
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: home the antlers and they're just like, you know, what's

1350
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: wrong with this guy? And then um, and then the

1351
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: other sort of standard story is, um, this outsider handing

1352
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: elders or somebody respected handing them a chunk of meat

1353
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 1: without a bone. You know, how come that guy show

1354
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: stingy Um. Yeah, yeah, we think about that. You're gonna

1355
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: bring someone something nice, You're gonna bring him a backstrap.

1356
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 1: You just try to keep the moose is knee. But seriously,

1357
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,080
Speaker 1: I mean, now I cook a lot with a not

1358
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,560
Speaker 1: suit but a Dutch shoven with you know, put some

1359
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: oil in it. It's here the knee real quick is

1360
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:38,600
Speaker 1: your fuel mostly would to make heat into not anymore. No,

1361
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 1: I mean, propane is an amazing thing. Nowadays everything has changed.

1362
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: You know. I have a place in Cotspy with electricity,

1363
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 1: so I have freezers there. So when I come down

1364
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: from upriver, uh, where I don't have any of that,

1365
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 1: I'll bring meat and starting a freezer and sharing meat

1366
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:57,680
Speaker 1: and a freezer. I don't know if you guys know

1367
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:03,920
Speaker 1: about this is amazing. Well, I want to talk to

1368
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: a guy that he uh, he's actually a friend of

1369
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: mine and for his graduate work he was doing, um,

1370
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: he was doing sort of this hundred years survey of

1371
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 1: of hunting magazines, and one of the things that he

1372
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: really took note of is just the way the conversation

1373
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 1: changed when freezers became a thing. I mean, it just changed.

1374
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:32,720
Speaker 1: It changed everything about people's perspectives on deer hunting. Um,

1375
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: once every Joe Blow on the planet had a freezer

1376
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: in his house, because like the whole like filling the freezer,

1377
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: that's like a new like relatively speaking, that's a new concept. Right.

1378
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: It would be that you got a deer and you

1379
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 1: had to figure out what you're gonna do with that deer.

1380
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 1: Right now, absolutely. And I really value living seasonally, so

1381
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home and start commercial fishing, which means

1382
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: that I bring home a seal bit salmon that you

1383
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: can't sell, you know, seals are working them. And so

1384
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: I eat salmon like all summer, but come August, and

1385
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 1: of August, people are like, oh, how many salmon do

1386
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 1: you put in your freezer? I'm like one, And even

1387
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 1: then I started begrudgate because it's not going to be fresh,

1388
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: and uh and I'm kind of sick of salmon by then, anyway,

1389
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:18,639
Speaker 1: and then heading up river hoping to you know, start

1390
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:22,080
Speaker 1: eating caribou and then um and whatever else and uh.

1391
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: And I like that seasonal connection to your food and

1392
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 1: and so a freezer um is handy too to save

1393
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: food and not waste hypothetically. Um, but I kind of

1394
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 1: like just eating what's in season. And um. A lot

1395
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: of hunters and anglers use their freezer as a prolonged

1396
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 1: wasting machine, funk. I'm so glad to hear you say that.

1397
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's a way that you can get

1398
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: something and then put off the waste. When it's five

1399
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: years old, You're like, oh, I can throw it out now. Yeah,

1400
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 1: freezer burn. I'm so glad to hear you say that,

1401
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 1: and you know that bugs me most about uh, you know,

1402
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: many things, but at home there's it's this uh conveyor

1403
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 1: belt to wasting because um then you especially something like

1404
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 1: she fish which you mentioned, people love to go out

1405
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: and hook them through the ice really close to town

1406
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:17,600
Speaker 1: and there. What do you do if you get a

1407
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: sledload of sheat fish, you know, and you can leave someone.

1408
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 1: I'm joking, but I actually wrote a proposal to make

1409
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 1: it illegal to leave them on the ice when you

1410
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, your head home. Uh oh absolutely, Um, but

1411
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 1: uh in the state past that proposal. So now it's

1412
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 1: illegal to leave your you know, spare fish there. But

1413
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 1: but people bring them home and they put them in

1414
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: the freezer. So many, you know, because you can catch

1415
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 1: a lot of big fish. And and so I'm thrilled

1416
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 1: to hear you um mentioned that the freezer is is

1417
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 1: uh you know, a wasting device. It's it's it's one

1418
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:57,879
Speaker 1: of it's one of hunting and fishing. Uh. Many dark secrets.

1419
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: Is the the the old Like I'll put my freezer

1420
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 1: then later I'll throw it out for some weird reason.

1421
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 1: I won't feel bad about it in two years. The

1422
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:10,680
Speaker 1: same goes. You know, if you get sixty geese and

1423
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 1: don't get around and plucking him and stick him in

1424
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 1: the freezy pull out. I've never done that because I'm

1425
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,600
Speaker 1: very fanatical, But I see people pulling out geese that

1426
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: are not plucked and not gut it and in the freezer.

1427
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: That's an extreme. They're scary. Okay, what do you got

1428
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:30,680
Speaker 1: front of man? We gotta I gotta know so I um,

1429
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're I don't want to scare

1430
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 1: any of your listeners. But so that's a fermented whale

1431
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 1: bowhead meat. This is fresh mucktuck, which is bowhead, the

1432
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 1: skin and blubber. I don't know how scary you want

1433
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 1: to get. Do we need something I've had? This is

1434
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 1: walrus kind of the same idea of the skin. This

1435
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: has still got the hair on it, which looks like

1436
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: unshaven one of your neighbors. Um but um, but the

1437
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: same idea as muck tuck. It's the skin with the

1438
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: layer's lever. What else do I got here? Oh? This

1439
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 1: is for you? You touched on which one walrus? Um?

1440
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:18,640
Speaker 1: This right here is is uh yeah, that's got the

1441
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 1: hair on it you touched on this earlier. So, but

1442
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: like the walrus and the whale, is this stuff that

1443
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 1: was was given to you or were you yeah? Yeah?

1444
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: Because so they have this right here is uh this

1445
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 1: is just salted or raw or what it skills firm

1446
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 1: that's cooked. This is cooked. This is raw. Uh, this

1447
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 1: is raw. Um, so this is uh, this is right cariboo.

1448
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: So at home, my um uh kind of standard lunch

1449
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 1: would be um dried caribou and either steal dipped in

1450
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 1: seal or more likely uh boehead and muck tuck, which

1451
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 1: just raw very often the bluga muck tuck smaller whale

1452
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: the same idea is cooked. But but the wall you

1453
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 1: guys cook the walrus. Um the skin yeah yeah, it's

1454
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: got some blab and skin. Uh. My experience was trying

1455
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: to cut walter skin is you wouldn't get too far

1456
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 1: if you didn't cook that. What do you mean kind

1457
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: of bulletproof? Oh so, but you guys eat the hair

1458
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: like I just did. Right, Well, I don't know said,

1459
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 1: but I gotta tell you the old that I need

1460
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: you try to combo. You're you're gonna like this. It's

1461
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,560
Speaker 1: some very fresh and simple Try it on them. So

1462
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: you're eating the cariboo with the fat. Yeah, it's super good. Yeah,

1463
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: this's other stuff. Give me a photo. That's not a frad.

1464
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 1: He's doubling down. Do that wallus me to something. Man,

1465
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: there's nothing like that on the planet. Holy God, this

1466
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 1: is bow ahead. Yeah. I don't want say like it.

1467
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 1: I don't want to say I don't like what I'm saying.

1468
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:11,519
Speaker 1: There is nothing like that. So Steve, the first time

1469
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 1: I had um, it's like if a deer was made

1470
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 1: out of fish. The first time I had uh, this

1471
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: walrus was some we were camped at fish camp. One

1472
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 1: floated in so the hunter squad and shoot shoot them.

1473
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: And I hate to say this, but a certain amount

1474
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 1: of time to get the tusks. But um, but if

1475
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: they sink, they stayed down for a while and then

1476
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 1: the gases form in the stomach, they float up and

1477
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: then they then they're floating in the ocean. They come ashore. Um.

1478
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 1: So one came ashore. Seagulls are on top, pooping on

1479
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: it and everything, and it's all sunburnt, rotten on top.

1480
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 1: Well underneath, the cold water kept it fresh, and the

1481
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, the natives knew that. So they towed it

1482
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 1: ashore and somebody claimed the tusk. I don't remember that part,

1483
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 1: but so they cut that. Um, it's called coke. That's

1484
01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 1: what the local word coke. You've probably had many a

1485
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: coke and your life, m but that's what they call

1486
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: this skin part of it. So they cut that off.

1487
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 1: That um floating did the corpulent walrus, and and and

1488
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: got a third of a drum, you know, fifty five

1489
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,640
Speaker 1: gallon drum to cook boiling water over a campfire and

1490
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 1: then cook that. Well, my brother and I were barefoot kids,

1491
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, fish camp there, and we walked down and

1492
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 1: they said, you want to try something. We thought it

1493
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 1: was the best thing ever what you just had. I'm

1494
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: not convinced that this is as fresh as that was. Um,

1495
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 1: that's fermented whale meat. You want to get into that.

1496
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: I'll try the non ferment I want to try, but

1497
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,679
Speaker 1: I want to cleanse my pal I think the fresh

1498
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 1: wheel meat. Yeah, let's let's recap on on the bowhead, right,

1499
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 1: which is but what you're going about to have, Brody,

1500
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 1: what what are your thoughts on? I mean, it's just

1501
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: tastes like fat. It's pretty neutral. So UM, that demarcation

1502
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 1: between the black skin, and the where the blubber starts

1503
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 1: shows a tough layer. And you could tell how cool

1504
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 1: you are when you're given um uh muck tuck. If

1505
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: you are given if it's really tough that layer, you're

1506
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,840
Speaker 1: you are given a section in the whale that's not

1507
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: as desirable. Um and often when I'm sort of joking,

1508
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: but um, I joked that if you're not if you're

1509
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: not cool, you get the tougher uh uh portion of

1510
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:40,639
Speaker 1: the whale. You know, to go really good with this salt. Yeah,

1511
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:47,720
Speaker 1: that's why. That's that's really so, that's why you eat

1512
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: it with the caraboos, Steve the dried caraboo, because it's salty.

1513
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: But I'm a buehead. I got maybe I have like

1514
01:31:57,240 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: some delayed effects from my last round of COVID, but

1515
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to the walrus at all. Do you

1516
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 1: guys think that do you already render that fat into

1517
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:14,560
Speaker 1: an oil? Absolutely? Yeah, yeamnum cover is super thick, and

1518
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 1: so people render a lot of se oil and store

1519
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 1: it and uh buckets and jars, and we used to

1520
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:24,760
Speaker 1: always use wooden barrels, which I think is the store

1521
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 1: your seal oil. Yeah, I think it's healthier actually than buckets. Um,

1522
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:31,520
Speaker 1: just for that ship. I try a piece here, I'm

1523
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 1: gonna do it, But to be honest with me, I'm

1524
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 1: a little bit chicken shit about the fermented whale meat. Okay,

1525
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 1: what's this? Oh no, no, you don't want that. You

1526
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:42,600
Speaker 1: already had it. Um. Raw will meat is phenomenal, but

1527
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:45,200
Speaker 1: it's fat and skin. So this is um. I didn't

1528
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: think this was the way I was supposed to be.

1529
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't as excited. Is it okay to put that

1530
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: on the cutting board? That's fermented wheel meat? No? This

1531
01:32:54,640 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 1: is uh is uh beluga uh basically skin um. I

1532
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's not cooked. I usually you

1533
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:06,679
Speaker 1: don't like it or like it. I didn't. Well, here's

1534
01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: the section. This is the flipper so you can see

1535
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 1: that out of the outside, and then super sinowy section.

1536
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: I like it better than walrus, but I don't like

1537
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: it as much as bullhead. I wonder if you just

1538
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 1: got like a slightly tainted chunk of all risk I

1539
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: ain't pretty good Tony, what man? I wouldn't let a

1540
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 1: bullhead get by me? What size portion? When you said

1541
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 1: you eat that for launch seth? Sadly enough, I wolfed down. Uh,

1542
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: a lot of fat, and I'm I'd fight to not

1543
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 1: be a skinny white boy. I just don't seem to

1544
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: put on weight. But um, yeah, I eat a lot

1545
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,040
Speaker 1: of a lot of fat all year around. And um.

1546
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 1: When my daughter was young and her mom would go

1547
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 1: to work, she was like three years old, and she'd

1548
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: sit and have lunch with me, and I would catch

1549
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:55,400
Speaker 1: her dipping whale blubber and bear fat. And I was like,

1550
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have some dried meat with that, not

1551
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:04,960
Speaker 1: just fat dipped in fat? Well, where, um, what's that there?

1552
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to try that dried caribou, did you? I

1553
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 1: haven't had that I want with this? This is how

1554
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:14,599
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll tell you what a little rock salt

1555
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:19,640
Speaker 1: on there and so dry caribou And that's how. This

1556
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:24,240
Speaker 1: is the bowhead skin And that's how thick a skin is. Nope,

1557
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 1: that's how thick the skin is. But the blubber would be, like,

1558
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, way thicker than that. I love how it's

1559
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: like a little exclamation point or something, that bowhead fat

1560
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:38,360
Speaker 1: melts in your meal. Actually, here's just my kids would

1561
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 1: like the bowhead, but they wouldn't like the wall. It's

1562
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 1: not too far removed from like a beef, And that's

1563
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: why I don't. I like both, but it's this is

1564
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:49,719
Speaker 1: the simplest to slice this up, eat it with dry meat.

1565
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know how to answer your question, but

1566
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 1: probably there's a uh, I don't know. I might eat

1567
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: a half a cup and then and then the local

1568
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: tradition is then to have um, maybe pilot crackers and

1569
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: jam and tea or coffee. And that was kind of

1570
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:10,440
Speaker 1: the lunch we'd have. We'd have dried pike, dried whitefish,

1571
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 1: dried trout, which is harder if it's fat, right, cheap fish,

1572
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,720
Speaker 1: um through that little combo of the dried cariboo in

1573
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 1: the bowhead. Oh yeah, that's lunch. Um. But shoot, I

1574
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 1: keep forgetting whatever what are the crackers? Uh, sailor boy?

1575
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: Pilot bread? Yeah? You hear so many lasting thought about that,

1576
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: and I built up like a high expectation of what

1577
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 1: pilot bread would be. And I foundly got some like

1578
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 1: that's what they're talking about all the time? Is it? Like? Um? Yeah,

1579
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: and it's a kind of a big cracker. Why do

1580
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 1: you guys eat so much of that? Because it preserves well? Um? Well,

1581
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 1: I joked that it's uh that pilot breader is actually

1582
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:58,680
Speaker 1: in new pack food. It's uh, it's it's been so

1583
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: uh adopted by the culture that, um, I don't know,

1584
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:04,680
Speaker 1: you just get used to. It's like eating, you know,

1585
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:06,720
Speaker 1: why don't you eat muck tuck every day? And so

1586
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 1: that's how could you survive without it? And that's how

1587
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 1: we could get pilot bread. I can't get that. It's

1588
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 1: just funny. Like rural Alaskans and the whole pilot bread thing.

1589
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,639
Speaker 1: It's like it's kind of like a bland thick. Yeah.

1590
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it's salted. Think you're getting your protein salt.

1591
01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 1: It's a car I'm taking offense. I don't care if

1592
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 1: you don't like the wall or I love it. You

1593
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 1: guys love it. It's just funny because when I had it,

1594
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,840
Speaker 1: I was like, well that's what they're talking about. When

1595
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: we lived in Fairbanks. Yeah, immediately, like first time I

1596
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:46,679
Speaker 1: went to the grocery store getting some of these. After

1597
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 1: those ten months living up there, I didn't miss it.

1598
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:52,600
Speaker 1: When I left Alaska, were you did you guys have

1599
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: many sweets at all? Or was that like my dad? Yeah,

1600
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:58,720
Speaker 1: that's very interesting. My dad said that eating all that

1601
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 1: protein and fat made greatly desire sweets, and so he would, uh,

1602
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:07,960
Speaker 1: we get done with some giant um meal of notice

1603
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 1: you got mediterranean Mediterranean sea of that was at the hotels.

1604
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,400
Speaker 1: My dad collects salt along the shore. But um, we

1605
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:18,680
Speaker 1: would get done with a big meal of you know,

1606
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:22,799
Speaker 1: boiled caribou meat or something, and then start getting a hankering,

1607
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 1: large hankering for sweets. And my dad would take um,

1608
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: powdered snow, you know, fluffy snow, uh, dairy gold powdered milk,

1609
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: sugar and vanilla and start whipping it up in the

1610
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 1: corner and snow ice creams. Great, it's just like dairy green.

1611
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:40,800
Speaker 1: And we had had that in your book. I wanted

1612
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:42,320
Speaker 1: to make it for my kids. I never got around.

1613
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 1: You need that real fluffy uh cold dry snow. Yeah

1614
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:50,000
Speaker 1: that falls almost like cotton e snow. Yeah, super nice

1615
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:54,040
Speaker 1: and um yeah, we'd have that every night. Yeah sweets.

1616
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah it sounds great. So the the fermented way all,

1617
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:06,679
Speaker 1: have you already had it? Yeah? No, I'd like to. Well, yeah,

1618
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 1: well you so you explain why this is part of

1619
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 1: the diet versus what we just happen. Sure, just not

1620
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 1: that will be Manneth dropping down. Oh well, no offense,

1621
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: but it's you're gonna think it is it was bad.

1622
01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 1: You're really selling it. You know. The thing that's my daughter.

1623
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 1: Just make this guy from Point Hope to bring her something. Um,

1624
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 1: she loves this. But yeah, I'm telling you what. My

1625
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:38,800
Speaker 1: new favorite food is your jerky and your into this.

1626
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:43,160
Speaker 1: Uh that's fermented well meat, their raw prosion. So what's

1627
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 1: what's the process of fermenting that? There's not? Um, well,

1628
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:53,519
Speaker 1: we we had it's not. I'm like, I actually found

1629
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 1: that less remarkable than the waters small piece. I think

1630
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: you got to try the way. It's not a big deal.

1631
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: Let's give him some more waters, Steve, I think you

1632
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:04,640
Speaker 1: got to try the wall risking you good because I

1633
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: think he got a funky piece because I thought it

1634
01:39:06,479 --> 01:39:08,400
Speaker 1: was I had a couple of pieces of the hair

1635
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:12,080
Speaker 1: and everything. I didn't want to be rude. That fermented.

1636
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 1: So explain the process on the fermented stuff. Well, it depends.

1637
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:18,760
Speaker 1: You know, we ate a lot of frozen fermented fish

1638
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and is it like legitimately fermented. Well,

1639
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: it's just like do you have the fermented candle fish?

1640
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 1: I hear that's quite the culinary experience, haven't Uh I

1641
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 1: don't know what a candle fish is, but oh yeah,

1642
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 1: I haven't had the fermented I've ried. So let's get

1643
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 1: back to uh. In the fall, we were we would come,

1644
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, set our nets and uh beat drying fish,

1645
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 1: and then it would reach a point where, um, I

1646
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 1: guess it was cold enough that the flies were not

1647
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: gonna blow things, and so then we just start uh

1648
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,920
Speaker 1: dumping washtubs of fish in the grass, tryed to laying

1649
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:59,559
Speaker 1: them up so they weren't criss cross, because you need

1650
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:02,800
Speaker 1: to chop apart when they're frozen, and then cover them

1651
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: with grass. And I don't know how we kept the

1652
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:06,639
Speaker 1: bears away then, but I guess we had dogs and guns.

1653
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:12,680
Speaker 1: But um and then um that would uh ferment. You

1654
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 1: could use a different word if you wanted to rack

1655
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:24,679
Speaker 1: and um and um. Then after it got cold, which

1656
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: used to happen sort of consistently in late September, the

1657
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 1: ice would freeze, and uh we'd separate those fish and

1658
01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 1: then store them all winter and said we would have

1659
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:36,240
Speaker 1: lunch that was very similar to this, which would be

1660
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:42,760
Speaker 1: uh dried meat, dried um fish, pike, whitefish and other

1661
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 1: dried meat. And then frozen raw um, fermented um trout,

1662
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: she fish, whitefish, um. And you take your boats, you know,

1663
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 1: and saw it like you're cutting a log into what

1664
01:40:57,160 --> 01:41:01,479
Speaker 1: like you fry steaks. Those were super cold frozen. Bring

1665
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 1: him in and put him on a um cutting board

1666
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:07,320
Speaker 1: and then um peel the skin off and then just

1667
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:11,000
Speaker 1: eat those chunks. Cut it in chunks between the bones.

1668
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:13,040
Speaker 1: So what the pike and white fish? Are you cutting

1669
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: the pieces so thin? You just chew the bones right up? Um?

1670
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:18,960
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like we also kind of went

1671
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 1: around the bones because you can see everything pretty clearly

1672
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,000
Speaker 1: when you say that. You you catch fish and you

1673
01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:25,599
Speaker 1: lay them out in the grass and you just because

1674
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 1: you don't want the freeze together, and they sit there

1675
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:32,400
Speaker 1: some number of days before they froze, like weeks weeks,

1676
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:35,600
Speaker 1: and then eventually just pile them up. Yeah, and then

1677
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,040
Speaker 1: we put them on like you had to put him

1678
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 1: up on a log cash for the winter because they're fermented.

1679
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:43,519
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like most people would look at and be

1680
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 1: like that fish is kind of rotten. Totally yep, rotten

1681
01:41:46,040 --> 01:42:00,519
Speaker 1: fish yet just a desired taste as flavored to it. Yeah,

1682
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:03,840
Speaker 1: But then we would eat um like grayling. We would

1683
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:07,559
Speaker 1: jigs through the ice after the ice frozen the fall,

1684
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:11,200
Speaker 1: we're setting that's under the ice to catch whitefish for

1685
01:42:12,120 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: people and dogs and hopefully trout under the ice two

1686
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:20,720
Speaker 1: and chap fish, and then jig for grailing next to

1687
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:24,800
Speaker 1: your nat because whitefish re spawning and eggs are coming out,

1688
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 1: so the grailing would swarm there. We would jig there

1689
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:31,240
Speaker 1: and then we would eat the grayling frozen raw. So

1690
01:42:31,439 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: it was the same ideas. So fermented frozen fish, cut

1691
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 1: them up and they're super good. I if you said,

1692
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, do you want fried grailing or frozen raw,

1693
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 1: definitely want the frozen really fried fresh grailing is fantastic.

1694
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,080
Speaker 1: That is a tasty fish. We ate what was it,

1695
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 1: frozen thin sliced. That's good stuff. So that's the same idea. Well,

1696
01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:58,880
Speaker 1: the seal oil is like I like the frozen tom

1697
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 1: cod because it's just like it's it's it's thin slices.

1698
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: It's so like clean tasting and it's frozen and it's

1699
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:09,479
Speaker 1: just kind of it's refreshing. The seal oil adds a

1700
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 1: whole other element to it, man where it's like a

1701
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:15,479
Speaker 1: very peppery, like a like a very like a like

1702
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: a spicy oil. I thought it tasted. I thought we

1703
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 1: said it tasted like cantaloupe. Almost didn't it well? I

1704
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:26,000
Speaker 1: think you guys did pretty well, because what I'm finding

1705
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 1: with seal oil now is um it's often kind of strong.

1706
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean I thought I thought it was strong. I

1707
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 1: think when they used to use wooden barrels to render it,

1708
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:38,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't it was it did a better job of

1709
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:43,280
Speaker 1: making uh, sort of a fresh tasting oil. I wasn't

1710
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:46,760
Speaker 1: a coastal person, so we were we were known, as

1711
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, up up the river Inland as um having

1712
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: crappy oil because it was you know, you're lower on

1713
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 1: the totem pole as far as trading, and you had

1714
01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 1: your jar of oil that was from last year as

1715
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 1: opposed to the seal you got yesterday or whatever. But

1716
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff um. I have to be

1717
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 1: careful culturally not say the wrong thing, but I feel

1718
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 1: like the a couple of generations back, the elders had

1719
01:44:16,280 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 1: um um. I thought they did a better job of it. Um. Uh.

1720
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 1: So I end up now with with all that, I

1721
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:28,920
Speaker 1: often am not as excited about the flavor as when

1722
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,519
Speaker 1: I was a kid. And and some of that's me.

1723
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 1: I noticed, I'm getting more squeamish. Um. We used to

1724
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 1: my parents would we get a muskrat or many muskrats

1725
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 1: and cook them up, and we'd eat the feet and tail.

1726
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 1: And I want to ask about that. When you say

1727
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,960
Speaker 1: you guys are eating the tails, I don't get it. Well,

1728
01:44:45,160 --> 01:44:47,040
Speaker 1: what are you eating off the tail? I need to

1729
01:44:47,080 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 1: tell you about raising kids. Um, if you don't tell

1730
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 1: your kids not to eat the butt hole or the

1731
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 1: head or the tail or the lips, they will um.

1732
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:59,200
Speaker 1: And especially if you did tell your kids, like it's

1733
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:01,680
Speaker 1: time to eat, and you open the soup pot and

1734
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: there's the entire you know, I got it, But the

1735
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:08,600
Speaker 1: rest of the muskrat there while the tail's fat and

1736
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:12,720
Speaker 1: chewy and uh great, So there's a there's enough under

1737
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 1: that skin, between the skin and the bones of the tail.

1738
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:19,439
Speaker 1: You guys are nibbling off like a layer of fat

1739
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: and meat. Yeah, and the yield's got to be really

1740
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 1: low though. Yeah, but wait a minute, what else would

1741
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:26,960
Speaker 1: you do with the tail? Just cut it off and

1742
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:31,200
Speaker 1: fling it in the willows, put it in the pot um.

1743
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 1: And the same thing with with beaver, Like springtime, the

1744
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 1: ice would go out and beaver send their teenage kids

1745
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:41,000
Speaker 1: out to find new homes. Um, And so along the

1746
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:44,160
Speaker 1: river would be we would uh my brother and I

1747
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:46,639
Speaker 1: would paddle in our little kayaks that my dad made,

1748
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:50,120
Speaker 1: and we would shoot and shoot beaver and muskrat with

1749
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:54,599
Speaker 1: twenty two. Um. So you skin out the beaver, save

1750
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:56,680
Speaker 1: the hide, and then cook the feet and head and

1751
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 1: tail and um everything else. Um and yeah, but the

1752
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 1: tail on a beaver man that's got a lot of fat?

1753
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:07,639
Speaker 1: Did I try? I'll try the muskratch? I just can't

1754
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:09,560
Speaker 1: really picture it. I've handled like quite a pile of

1755
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:12,439
Speaker 1: me know. Yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, now,

1756
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:16,680
Speaker 1: I probably would. I don't really need muskrat fur. And

1757
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 1: I can't remember the last time I got one actually. Um.

1758
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:25,560
Speaker 1: I just I think after I ended up with my

1759
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:29,880
Speaker 1: first girlfriend and later my wife from uh we're not

1760
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,559
Speaker 1: together anymore, but were living along the river, I started

1761
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 1: being uh more careful of like, oh I should cut

1762
01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:40,760
Speaker 1: that off, and oh, I don't think she would be

1763
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 1: that excited to have the head grinning out of the

1764
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:46,120
Speaker 1: pot at her and um, well, I mean I knew

1765
01:46:46,200 --> 01:46:49,720
Speaker 1: she wasn't. Um and so I started my long road

1766
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: to being more squeamish. But as a kid. My parents

1767
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 1: were just like, that's what we're having for dinner, and

1768
01:46:56,040 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 1: fight over the tail. Um, and then of course beaver, uh,

1769
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 1: beaver of the tail. What's the favorite part? Tell me

1770
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 1: about the Tell me about this road situation you're involved

1771
01:47:11,439 --> 01:47:16,280
Speaker 1: in here. Um. Probably in the early nineteen hundreds, they

1772
01:47:16,439 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 1: built Kennicott Mine down by McCarthy and built a railroad

1773
01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:24,400
Speaker 1: from Cordova across the glaciers and up and got copper. Uh.

1774
01:47:24,479 --> 01:47:27,679
Speaker 1: They got that copper and then they started looking for more.

1775
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:33,080
Speaker 1: And so right about the time my parents went uh

1776
01:47:33,439 --> 01:47:37,720
Speaker 1: to the Kobuk Valley, there was a cabin above our

1777
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:41,120
Speaker 1: place called did a right thing, Pastor McCarthy. Nope, no,

1778
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm being long winded, but there was a cabin

1779
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:47,280
Speaker 1: that we always called the Kennicott cabin. And we didn't

1780
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:49,800
Speaker 1: sort of put these pieces together, but that was that

1781
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:54,440
Speaker 1: mining company, uh, coming up the Kobuck and had discovered

1782
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:59,600
Speaker 1: um or new about previously discovered copper um up the

1783
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 1: Ambler River and in those mountains in the Kolbuck watershed. Yeah. Absolutely,

1784
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 1: And so all these years, uh, the UM, Senator Makowski,

1785
01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 1: Senator Stevens, all these people have tried to figure we're

1786
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:14,800
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to access that, but it's

1787
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: pretty you know, remote. UM. So they talked about railroad

1788
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:22,599
Speaker 1: from they could get the ore. Yeah. And so now

1789
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:25,600
Speaker 1: there's been uh this steady push over the years that

1790
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 1: has built um crescendo now where they're they've got the

1791
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:34,440
Speaker 1: I s kind of mostly through. It's a little complicated

1792
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:37,639
Speaker 1: that uh all that, but they're they're wanting to build

1793
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 1: a spur road off the pipeline road two hundred miles

1794
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:46,280
Speaker 1: sort of um, straight west from the pipeline road through

1795
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:50,679
Speaker 1: an through the controlling reserve. UM. Well in this case,

1796
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:54,360
Speaker 1: it's it would go about through battles and then some

1797
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 1: native lands, some state land, and through the gates of

1798
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:02,360
Speaker 1: the Arctic National Park UM and then hit the head

1799
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:07,320
Speaker 1: of the Kobuk and end up at UM basically Kobuk Village,

1800
01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:11,040
Speaker 1: which is which is the village at the furthest um

1801
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: up the Kobuk River. It would be a two hundred

1802
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 1: mile industrial corridor that would then open up the Brooks

1803
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:24,439
Speaker 1: Range and northwest Alaska to the many many uh large

1804
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:28,640
Speaker 1: deposits of minerals and coal and oil and the UM.

1805
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 1: From my point of view, it would uh uh ruin

1806
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:39,200
Speaker 1: the maybe the last largest uh intact ecosystem ecosystem in

1807
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 1: the world uh um the Brooks Range UM. And then

1808
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:47,760
Speaker 1: put this these many giant open pit mines at the

1809
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 1: at the head of the kobuk and the um Manila

1810
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: can cocollacta conambler, all these rivers that flow into the

1811
01:49:55,600 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 1: kobuk um and UM and also sort of bring this

1812
01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: tidal wave of technology that would change the innupact way

1813
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:10,599
Speaker 1: of life, which has already greatly changed. But what sort

1814
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 1: of finish it off with UM technology and money and

1815
01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:21,240
Speaker 1: uh influx of people and and and and and the

1816
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 1: final things change hunting greatly as far as um, um,

1817
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:33,440
Speaker 1: resource conflict and UH and then back to the technology.

1818
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:36,840
Speaker 1: But then UM, the Western art occurred is just just

1819
01:50:37,120 --> 01:50:41,920
Speaker 1: sort of flowing the river of Cariboo that was almost

1820
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 1: half a million cariboo twenty years ago and has dropped

1821
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:49,280
Speaker 1: now to just under two hundred thousand, hundred eight thousand,

1822
01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:51,680
Speaker 1: I think, and so on that though, I mean, that's

1823
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 1: like a wildly cyclical population of animals that goes up

1824
01:50:55,360 --> 01:50:58,200
Speaker 1: and down with great frequency. I mean, don't you agree

1825
01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:00,800
Speaker 1: with that? I do agree with that. Um, it's a

1826
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:05,879
Speaker 1: it's a very complex subject because right now there's some UM. Locally,

1827
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:09,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of effort put into um keeping so

1828
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:13,560
Speaker 1: called outsiders or from coming up to hunt UM. But

1829
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,560
Speaker 1: to me, it makes no sense if you're um not

1830
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:20,479
Speaker 1: uh looking at your own actions. So at home, there's

1831
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:26,080
Speaker 1: a uh, there's a kind of this is stereotypical. Uh,

1832
01:51:26,320 --> 01:51:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm I'm speaking in broad broad terms,

1833
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:32,040
Speaker 1: But at home there's this feeling that, you know, outsiders

1834
01:51:32,120 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 1: damage to the herd, but locals dome and and at

1835
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 1: home that we there's more of us locally, we have

1836
01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:40,880
Speaker 1: more guns and more boats and and UM, and the

1837
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:45,800
Speaker 1: herds falling as we're you know, we have more UM,

1838
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:49,719
Speaker 1: more stuff to hunt them with, and more access and ability.

1839
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:54,280
Speaker 1: And then there's a push to build this road at

1840
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 1: the same time and and um get more high paying

1841
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 1: jobs and and all that. So what was it? What's

1842
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:04,800
Speaker 1: the general UM? I'll point out that anything like this

1843
01:52:05,439 --> 01:52:09,040
Speaker 1: my I was gonna say my reflex, but it goes

1844
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:14,000
Speaker 1: beyond my reflex. Uh. I'm always gonna be on the

1845
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:15,840
Speaker 1: side of habitat and I'm always gonna be on the

1846
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:17,639
Speaker 1: side of wilderness. You though you don't like that word,

1847
01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm okay, with it now because it's pretty handy. Like

1848
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be like people like, well, you have

1849
01:52:25,120 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 1: a house and all that. I'm like, okay, uh, if

1850
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 1: I get to a point where I don't have a house,

1851
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:31,320
Speaker 1: maybe I'll have this conversation with you. But right now,

1852
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:36,240
Speaker 1: um uh. We're not gonna win every fight. But I'm

1853
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 1: always gonna be on the side of Wilder's always goa

1854
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 1: on the side of wild life habitat. But what are

1855
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 1: the people like your neighbors? Okay, like, what like if

1856
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:45,600
Speaker 1: you had to gauge I'm sure there's a lot of

1857
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:50,120
Speaker 1: sophisticated polling in Alaska about the project, But what's just

1858
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:53,439
Speaker 1: sort of the like the mood on the street as

1859
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 1: you live your life up and down this vast kobuck drainage.

1860
01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:01,719
Speaker 1: That's a complicated question. Um, there's uh. I would argue

1861
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:06,000
Speaker 1: that the culture has a lot of fatalism built into it. Uh.

1862
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:08,240
Speaker 1: Ten thousand years ago, you just sort of had to

1863
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:10,639
Speaker 1: let nature do what it did. You couldn't really control

1864
01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:15,280
Speaker 1: a lot and hopefully the the ubern whales and caribou

1865
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 1: showed up, and if they didn't, well, so too bad.

1866
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:22,679
Speaker 1: Starvation And so I think fatalism is a cultural norm.

1867
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:26,599
Speaker 1: And then along came the I'm gonna call them white people, um,

1868
01:53:27,360 --> 01:53:32,920
Speaker 1: and sort of we're kind of uh pushy um as

1869
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:35,040
Speaker 1: far as you know, saying what you could do moving

1870
01:53:35,080 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 1: in change of culture. And so locally there's just these

1871
01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:43,640
Speaker 1: uh this dual fatalism, like these outsiders are gonna come

1872
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 1: take what they want. There's nothing we can do about it. Um.

1873
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:52,240
Speaker 1: Separate from that is a huge cultural change where you know, uh,

1874
01:53:53,240 --> 01:53:56,759
Speaker 1: living off of hunting and fishing is uh dwindling rapidly.

1875
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:00,120
Speaker 1: And the young generation really likes their phones and or

1876
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:03,800
Speaker 1: their toys and their stuff and um, and so who

1877
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to uh very high paying job running heavy

1878
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:12,160
Speaker 1: equipment or something. It sounds like fun. Um. And then um,

1879
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:17,080
Speaker 1: they're Alaska. This is complex thing, but uh it was

1880
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:22,960
Speaker 1: divided up into U regional Native corporations. The native corporations

1881
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:28,519
Speaker 1: paid dividends to their native shareholders. So can we pause

1882
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:30,559
Speaker 1: just for me explain this for a minute. You've touched

1883
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 1: this earlier. You know it better than me, but I'm

1884
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:35,640
Speaker 1: gonna like it, so correct me where I get this wrong. Um.

1885
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 1: During the Carter administration, Uh, there was a lot of

1886
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:46,480
Speaker 1: undecided there's a lot of like undecided questions about who

1887
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:48,720
Speaker 1: owned what parts of Alaska, and you had a lot

1888
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:51,320
Speaker 1: of like they didn't have They don't have the reservation

1889
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:53,640
Speaker 1: system in Alaska like they have in the lower forty eight,

1890
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 1: and they started to they wanted to come to some

1891
01:54:58,840 --> 01:55:01,480
Speaker 1: finality about certain land areas, and so they started to

1892
01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 1: formally like divide up the state. And one of the

1893
01:55:04,640 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 1: things they did differently than they did in the eighteen

1894
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 1: hundreds in the lower forty eight is when making settlements

1895
01:55:10,200 --> 01:55:19,240
Speaker 1: with Native Alaskans. Um they built corporations and oftentimes multiple

1896
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:21,920
Speaker 1: what we might think of as tribes or multiple groups

1897
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 1: of Native Alaskans will belong to a Native Alaskan corporation

1898
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: and they'll have a board of directors and they have

1899
01:55:28,520 --> 01:55:32,000
Speaker 1: a chunk of land and they run that chunk of

1900
01:55:32,160 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 1: land like industry, mineral extraction, timber extraction, whatever, and that

1901
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:41,600
Speaker 1: income produces payments to shareholders the same way if you

1902
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:46,480
Speaker 1: are a stockholder in a in Amazon and you draw

1903
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:50,880
Speaker 1: dividends or whatever, is that good or not good? Um,

1904
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:57,080
Speaker 1: that's a good start. So it wasn't the Carter administration

1905
01:55:57,160 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: that was a nail cove which set up like that

1906
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:03,240
Speaker 1: national parks and stuff. So previous to that was anksa

1907
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:07,120
Speaker 1: Alaska Native Claim Settlement Act, which I think Nixon signed,

1908
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:12,120
Speaker 1: UM and that set up the corporations. It gets incredibly

1909
01:56:12,200 --> 01:56:15,000
Speaker 1: confusing from there. And and uh, don't quote me on

1910
01:56:15,040 --> 01:56:18,200
Speaker 1: any of this, hopefully you're not recording this, UM. But

1911
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:23,240
Speaker 1: um uh, the Native corporations do have the land as

1912
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:28,320
Speaker 1: a uh you know, for resources extraction, et cetera. But

1913
01:56:28,440 --> 01:56:32,680
Speaker 1: they also were given a big chunk of change that

1914
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:37,560
Speaker 1: they can invest in, like a company that um uh

1915
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:42,160
Speaker 1: provided toilet paper to the troops in Iraq, or or

1916
01:56:42,680 --> 01:56:46,640
Speaker 1: all sorts of other things. And so like the uh

1917
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:51,320
Speaker 1: North Slope Regional Corporation has done very well on oil

1918
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 1: and gas. Um some of the other ones um almost

1919
01:56:56,080 --> 01:56:58,880
Speaker 1: like the Alaska Permanent Fund might have invested in uh

1920
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: what ever you know. So so in the North on

1921
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 1: the North Sult, for instance, they've taken oil revenues and

1922
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:09,000
Speaker 1: diversify their portfolio and invested in presumably you know, a

1923
01:57:09,080 --> 01:57:12,400
Speaker 1: pension fund might go running investing. Yeah, yeah, presumably. And

1924
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:15,800
Speaker 1: and so um what happens back to the Ambler road

1925
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 1: is that um uh people, the Native corporations are for profit,

1926
01:57:21,400 --> 01:57:24,280
Speaker 1: and so they're kind of like a corporation saying well,

1927
01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 1: this is a this is a good idea, we want this,

1928
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: this will provide jobs, and we'll also pay you separate

1929
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:33,960
Speaker 1: from your job, give you know, native corporation dividends. So

1930
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:36,920
Speaker 1: in that sense, like wow, what a great deal. Um.

1931
01:57:37,160 --> 01:57:42,000
Speaker 1: And then separately they say, will protect your subsistence hunting

1932
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:45,320
Speaker 1: and fishing. Uh you all there talk of like limiting

1933
01:57:45,400 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 1: the road, that the road will never be open to

1934
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:50,240
Speaker 1: outside traffic like the Hall road, the pipeline road was

1935
01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:54,240
Speaker 1: which is now open. Yeah, and so there's it would

1936
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:56,520
Speaker 1: take you know, hours and hours and hours just to

1937
01:57:56,640 --> 01:57:59,560
Speaker 1: touch the tip of iceberg on this. But but those

1938
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 1: are the the thing the propaganda for the road. Um,

1939
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:06,920
Speaker 1: it's hard if you're actually paying attention to say this

1940
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:12,040
Speaker 1: billion dollar road or and then many open pit mines,

1941
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:16,600
Speaker 1: which I know would lead to more roads and more mines. Um,

1942
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:19,160
Speaker 1: is not going to damage the caribou herd or the

1943
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,240
Speaker 1: or the subsistence hunting, or the quality of the water

1944
01:58:22,480 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 1: or anything but fishing in itself, right, like all the

1945
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:30,360
Speaker 1: different spawning species of fish that you mentioned, right, and

1946
01:58:30,680 --> 01:58:34,840
Speaker 1: and just small streams. This road, as it's perceived, would

1947
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 1: would have to go over. Yeah, many thousand small streams

1948
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:43,120
Speaker 1: something like that, and many major rivers and et cetera.

1949
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 1: It's a it's a giant industrial corridor into the into

1950
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:50,440
Speaker 1: the Brooks Range, which it's hard to if you don't

1951
01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:52,520
Speaker 1: know the Brooks Range, it's hard to explain just how

1952
01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:55,440
Speaker 1: wild that is. But it's imagine the Mountain Ranges side

1953
01:58:55,480 --> 01:59:00,320
Speaker 1: of California, Okay, yeah, with with no people, with road,

1954
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:03,000
Speaker 1: with road across no road, no roads and yeah, and

1955
01:59:03,080 --> 01:59:05,640
Speaker 1: then if you're going up the pipeline road and you

1956
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, and you wander off to the west, you'd

1957
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:14,080
Speaker 1: be like you'll hit another road in Siberia. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,

1958
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:17,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot, like there's a lot of parallels between

1959
01:59:17,120 --> 01:59:19,720
Speaker 1: this road and the Pebble mine where you have and

1960
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:21,960
Speaker 1: the Pebble Mind you had like a lot of diverse

1961
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:26,240
Speaker 1: groups that pushed back against the road. Is that happening. Oh,

1962
01:59:26,240 --> 01:59:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear you say that, because it's

1963
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:32,760
Speaker 1: been uh, super frustrating to me over the last decade

1964
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:36,320
Speaker 1: that Pebble Mind is so known and people have stickers

1965
01:59:36,400 --> 01:59:39,320
Speaker 1: and hats and and every other dude that was well

1966
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 1: marketed man. Yeah. Uh. And meanwhile, from my point of view,

1967
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:47,640
Speaker 1: the Ambler road is much much more detrimental. Um. We

1968
01:59:47,760 --> 01:59:51,400
Speaker 1: don't have the Bristol Bay fishery to say, well millions

1969
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:56,040
Speaker 1: of dollars and uh red salmon harvest potentially could be damaged.

1970
01:59:56,320 --> 01:59:58,400
Speaker 1: We have you know, the fishery that I've fished in

1971
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:03,080
Speaker 1: forty seven in years that makes very little money and um,

1972
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:05,200
Speaker 1: but we have and we have those the she fish

1973
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:12,400
Speaker 1: that you know, the most sheafish don't um live everywhere,

1974
02:00:12,440 --> 02:00:14,880
Speaker 1: and so we have the the she fish population there.

1975
02:00:14,920 --> 02:00:19,640
Speaker 1: We have these incredible long, huge rivers that are you

1976
02:00:19,680 --> 02:00:22,120
Speaker 1: can dip your cup in the water, and but but

1977
02:00:22,680 --> 02:00:25,280
Speaker 1: how do you equate that to value? And say, like, well,

1978
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:27,640
Speaker 1: dipping that cup in the value in the water feels

1979
02:00:27,680 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: good to me. But but oh, this road would bring jobs.

1980
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:33,440
Speaker 1: And so it's a hard argument, and it's not been

1981
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,400
Speaker 1: publicized at all, let alone on the on the couple

1982
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:41,840
Speaker 1: and and I would say, it's uh, um, I don't

1983
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 1: want to um. The apples and orange is thing, but

1984
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:47,640
Speaker 1: it's at least as important as pebble. And I would

1985
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 1: say much more so. Where you gave me a hoodie,

1986
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 1: did you design that hoodie? Not that one? And I

1987
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:01,200
Speaker 1: gotta admit you know, I went to Rdova to uh

1988
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:05,360
Speaker 1: do a book reading, and somebody came up to me

1989
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:08,120
Speaker 1: and gave me a shirt that said no road Cordova.

1990
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:10,480
Speaker 1: Didn't say anything about protecting your food or anything. And

1991
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:14,040
Speaker 1: I I asked people and they were trying to stop

1992
02:01:14,120 --> 02:01:16,840
Speaker 1: a thirty mile road I think it was, or do

1993
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 1: you I'm not familiar with it, but so I wore

1994
02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:21,520
Speaker 1: that around and and then I was like, I gotta

1995
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:23,800
Speaker 1: make some of these that say no road. Amblers is

1996
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:28,280
Speaker 1: and um, a lot of the time up home, UM,

1997
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 1: I feel like the lone ranger. I mean, people know

1998
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:36,880
Speaker 1: I'm against the road. But locally, um, this is getting

1999
02:01:36,920 --> 02:01:40,600
Speaker 1: back to before we started talking about the Native Corporations

2000
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:45,280
Speaker 1: and the Land Claims Act. But locally people have that

2001
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:48,760
Speaker 1: fatalistic attitude. But they also have this you're not supposed

2002
02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 1: to speak out. Um, you're supposed to just you know,

2003
02:01:53,560 --> 02:01:56,320
Speaker 1: keep to yourself about if you're against the road, you

2004
02:01:56,440 --> 02:01:59,320
Speaker 1: just you're not supposed to talk about it. And and

2005
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:03,080
Speaker 1: so I'm this lightning rod, this lone ranger, you know,

2006
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:06,600
Speaker 1: trying to stop the road. But I don't. People come

2007
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:09,040
Speaker 1: up to me in private and say, you know, can

2008
02:02:09,080 --> 02:02:13,200
Speaker 1: I have a hoodie and thanks and whatever. But in public, uh,

2009
02:02:13,680 --> 02:02:16,760
Speaker 1: people are not speaking out. Um. And part of that

2010
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:21,640
Speaker 1: is that the Native corporation um, you know, potentially would

2011
02:02:21,680 --> 02:02:23,640
Speaker 1: provide jobs, and you won't you know, if they're going

2012
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:25,600
Speaker 1: to build the road, you'd maybe you'd want to be

2013
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:28,400
Speaker 1: one of the people with it. Um. You don't want

2014
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:31,640
Speaker 1: to anger your neighbors. You don't want to There's all

2015
02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:34,960
Speaker 1: the normal reasons that humans might or might not speak out.

2016
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:39,960
Speaker 1: And so I think there's a lot of people who

2017
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:43,400
Speaker 1: are against the road, but it would be hard to quantify.

2018
02:02:43,640 --> 02:02:48,160
Speaker 1: It would be hard to get them to speak out. Um. Meanwhile,

2019
02:02:48,240 --> 02:02:52,960
Speaker 1: the propaganda machine is sort of grinding forwards, um, saying

2020
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:58,320
Speaker 1: all the the goodness the road would would bring, um

2021
02:02:58,800 --> 02:03:01,120
Speaker 1: a lot of jobs and moles. Will I actually like it?

2022
02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um because the cariboo someone got that famous

2023
02:03:05,120 --> 02:03:08,440
Speaker 1: picture of caribou getting shade under the pipeline. Oh yeah, yeah, no,

2024
02:03:08,600 --> 02:03:12,800
Speaker 1: they like it well. And then like how much easier

2025
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:14,920
Speaker 1: it is for a caribou to run down a road

2026
02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:19,480
Speaker 1: versus over tussocks. So the north of uh Cots, beyond

2027
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:21,680
Speaker 1: the coast is it's a red dog mine which was

2028
02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:27,720
Speaker 1: established probably years ago between Kamenko Native mining company and

2029
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:32,560
Speaker 1: the local Native Corporation nana Um and Um. They have

2030
02:03:32,640 --> 02:03:35,800
Speaker 1: a fifty two mile state road from the Mind to

2031
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:40,800
Speaker 1: the coast the port site and um and it's very

2032
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:45,080
Speaker 1: very popular at home. It's brought people piping jobs, which

2033
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:48,200
Speaker 1: is a whole another subject what that does to hunting

2034
02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:52,520
Speaker 1: and and and people's lives and stuff. But Um, that

2035
02:03:52,840 --> 02:03:56,920
Speaker 1: road doesn't lead to you couldn't drive from Miami to

2036
02:03:58,040 --> 02:04:00,440
Speaker 1: it's not on the road. The road on the road

2037
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:05,000
Speaker 1: and then UM but um cariboo come down that coast.

2038
02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:08,640
Speaker 1: So western Ardo Kurd hits that road at times and

2039
02:04:08,840 --> 02:04:14,120
Speaker 1: the fishing game callers, radio tracking collars show uh that

2040
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:18,840
Speaker 1: that stops the caribou for extended periods of time or

2041
02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:24,400
Speaker 1: potentially keeps them from migrating UM further south. And that's

2042
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:28,120
Speaker 1: a little road, a short road that um Um there's

2043
02:04:28,160 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 1: a little speck along the coast star compared to UM

2044
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:36,160
Speaker 1: this road that would come up the pipeline off the

2045
02:04:36,240 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 1: pipeline road north of Fairbanks and then two hundred and

2046
02:04:39,680 --> 02:04:45,760
Speaker 1: eleven miles UM east west UM. So as far as

2047
02:04:46,480 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 1: the caribou migration, UM, the effects could be uh um catastrophic. Really,

2048
02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:58,240
Speaker 1: you can't have a heard of uh you know serengetti

2049
02:04:58,440 --> 02:05:06,480
Speaker 1: like uh animals roaming over giant areas um and then

2050
02:05:07,080 --> 02:05:11,480
Speaker 1: slowly cut back on that area without um something happening

2051
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:15,520
Speaker 1: UM and UM. I guess I wanted to say another

2052
02:05:15,600 --> 02:05:19,080
Speaker 1: thing about the migration. So the migration has changed greatly

2053
02:05:19,160 --> 02:05:23,280
Speaker 1: in the last uh ten twenty years, and we got

2054
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:27,160
Speaker 1: really spoiled in my young life. Where August, September, October

2055
02:05:27,240 --> 02:05:29,520
Speaker 1: all in there it comes this flood of cariboo coming

2056
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:32,680
Speaker 1: through the yard. You know, thousands of cariboo. Oh, I

2057
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:34,640
Speaker 1: don't want to get one tonight. You know, I got

2058
02:05:34,720 --> 02:05:36,440
Speaker 1: a band aid on my thumb. I'll get one in

2059
02:05:36,520 --> 02:05:38,640
Speaker 1: the morning, you know whatever. There's just so many caribou

2060
02:05:38,680 --> 02:05:44,480
Speaker 1: flooding through to now where these last falls i've seen

2061
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:49,080
Speaker 1: like zero um or or a cow and calf eighteen

2062
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 1: miles away or something. Um. And that's the migration uh

2063
02:05:54,280 --> 02:05:59,040
Speaker 1: um not happening or delaying. All different things are taking

2064
02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:03,720
Speaker 1: place and super warm in the fall. Um. There's more

2065
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:08,200
Speaker 1: hunters on these rivers, local hunters driving boats. And then

2066
02:06:08,440 --> 02:06:11,240
Speaker 1: the final thing which I mentioned before that people like

2067
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:16,840
Speaker 1: to um blame the lack of migration on which is

2068
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:20,320
Speaker 1: flying outside hunters which are are coming in on super

2069
02:06:20,360 --> 02:06:23,960
Speaker 1: cubs and stuff to the leap Frog north of US. UM.

2070
02:06:24,560 --> 02:06:29,120
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a very contentious issue when you

2071
02:06:29,240 --> 02:06:35,240
Speaker 1: mix the resource conflicts with the development and and and

2072
02:06:35,360 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 1: all that, and then and the lands claim stuff, which

2073
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:41,560
Speaker 1: is super confusing too well with the industrial development. I

2074
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:46,040
Speaker 1: think that you'll look back on the pists and match

2075
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:49,320
Speaker 1: between outside hunters and locals as the good old days.

2076
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:54,360
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, And uh, you know, I recently met

2077
02:06:54,600 --> 02:06:58,720
Speaker 1: um people that talked about oh working together and stuff

2078
02:06:58,760 --> 02:07:02,880
Speaker 1: that locally we don't really have a reason to work

2079
02:07:02,920 --> 02:07:07,800
Speaker 1: together because you can this is gonna sound uh mean,

2080
02:07:07,960 --> 02:07:10,200
Speaker 1: but that the locals can kind of go to the

2081
02:07:10,280 --> 02:07:13,760
Speaker 1: federal government and say, um, you know, protect us because

2082
02:07:13,840 --> 02:07:17,480
Speaker 1: Anelka said, um, well, on federal land there would be

2083
02:07:17,680 --> 02:07:26,760
Speaker 1: a subsistence preference for local hunters. Um. Yeah. Uh. I

2084
02:07:26,760 --> 02:07:28,040
Speaker 1: don't want to get into it, but I think that's

2085
02:07:28,080 --> 02:07:31,960
Speaker 1: been grossly exploited. Oh yeah, they take I think there's

2086
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:35,800
Speaker 1: a lot of bullshit with taken. Um. There's been like

2087
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot of overreach I feel on the part of

2088
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:42,240
Speaker 1: like really like blaming small amounts outside hunters for these

2089
02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:46,080
Speaker 1: like huge macro issues about caribou I think it's just

2090
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:48,839
Speaker 1: it's like just sticking it to people. I don't disagree

2091
02:07:48,880 --> 02:07:54,240
Speaker 1: with you, um, but I think that most groups on

2092
02:07:54,440 --> 02:07:59,360
Speaker 1: planet Earth have long used whatever they can to their advantage.

2093
02:08:00,280 --> 02:08:04,360
Speaker 1: Most Yeah and so oh yeah, yeah, that's trying to

2094
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:07,920
Speaker 1: soften the edges on that. But yeah, and so that's

2095
02:08:07,960 --> 02:08:11,160
Speaker 1: in place right now. I Um, I put a proposal

2096
02:08:11,600 --> 02:08:15,520
Speaker 1: into the board of game to limit, um, the number

2097
02:08:15,600 --> 02:08:18,960
Speaker 1: of cariboo that myself and others up there were allowed

2098
02:08:19,040 --> 02:08:24,520
Speaker 1: to get, because I thought it was, um ludicrous. If

2099
02:08:24,600 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: we're saying, um, we live subsistence, we should be allowed

2100
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:30,800
Speaker 1: to do whatever we want, and outsiders shouldn't be allowed

2101
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 1: to do anything. Um, and so what about taking a

2102
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:38,160
Speaker 1: look at ourselves and trying to make our subsistence activities

2103
02:08:38,200 --> 02:08:42,280
Speaker 1: more responsible? Um? Why do we need to be allowed

2104
02:08:42,480 --> 02:08:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, five cariboo a day, every day of the year. Um,

2105
02:08:46,480 --> 02:08:51,800
Speaker 1: when we're uh worried about the cariboo herds, the dude

2106
02:08:51,840 --> 02:08:54,040
Speaker 1: that comes in and gets one, it's like blowing the

2107
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 1: whole thing. And so I got horribly shot down on that. Um. Um.

2108
02:08:58,720 --> 02:09:01,760
Speaker 1: But I think it's comeing. I mean, I hope it's coming.

2109
02:09:01,800 --> 02:09:04,680
Speaker 1: I think as as uh people who live there and

2110
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:08,080
Speaker 1: care about that spot. I'm one of them, and and UM, well,

2111
02:09:08,160 --> 02:09:10,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. I do think there's a local attitude

2112
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:14,920
Speaker 1: of um, locals can't hurt the resources, it's only outsiders

2113
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:18,120
Speaker 1: and and all that needs to change. I'm sorry to

2114
02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:20,760
Speaker 1: say it's I'm sure I'm going to have some people

2115
02:09:20,800 --> 02:09:24,000
Speaker 1: that give me some flak over that. But our our

2116
02:09:24,120 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 1: local um way of treating the resources as has gotten

2117
02:09:28,240 --> 02:09:31,000
Speaker 1: a little out of hand. And then, um, if we

2118
02:09:31,080 --> 02:09:33,400
Speaker 1: do want to blame the outsiders, which is great fun

2119
02:09:33,480 --> 02:09:38,040
Speaker 1: and really UM feels good. Um we can every group

2120
02:09:38,160 --> 02:09:42,640
Speaker 1: out there. UM, we need to clean up our act

2121
02:09:42,680 --> 02:09:46,560
Speaker 1: as best as we can. Uh, Seth Canner? Three things?

2122
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:49,520
Speaker 1: How do people find out? What's the best resource for

2123
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:52,920
Speaker 1: people to find out your perspective on the road? And

2124
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:55,040
Speaker 1: then what's the best way for people to find you

2125
02:09:55,520 --> 02:09:58,560
Speaker 1: as a photographer and author and to find your work? Um,

2126
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:03,800
Speaker 1: I have a a website which apparently is uh hideously

2127
02:10:03,920 --> 02:10:07,440
Speaker 1: unkempt kept and I don't I don't, I don't do much.

2128
02:10:07,520 --> 02:10:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do computers very well. But

2129
02:10:09,240 --> 02:10:12,080
Speaker 1: any you have a website Seth Kantner dot com and

2130
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:15,520
Speaker 1: I S E T H K A n T N

2131
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:19,560
Speaker 1: E R dot com and UM and on there. I

2132
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:23,080
Speaker 1: have a few of my thousands of caribou photos and

2133
02:10:23,320 --> 02:10:26,480
Speaker 1: and um in my books, UM and a few of

2134
02:10:26,640 --> 02:10:31,960
Speaker 1: my articles. UM. Nowadays I think everybody, Well, you mentioned

2135
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:34,600
Speaker 1: googling how to find a diamond out of a ring.

2136
02:10:34,680 --> 02:10:37,600
Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty interesting. I don't google much

2137
02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:40,400
Speaker 1: at all, but you can google me and you end

2138
02:10:40,480 --> 02:10:43,720
Speaker 1: up with these articles. I've written books, have written and

2139
02:10:43,880 --> 02:10:46,960
Speaker 1: then uh op eds about the Ambler Road, which some

2140
02:10:47,120 --> 02:10:51,840
Speaker 1: of them have been pretty happy with. I recently had

2141
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:56,760
Speaker 1: a crazy opportunity to meet Secretary of Interior deb Holland

2142
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:00,200
Speaker 1: and uh and uh I wrote about that and uh

2143
02:11:00,480 --> 02:11:02,760
Speaker 1: and these are sort of boiled down. I try to

2144
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 1: make the Ambler Road issue as uh. You know it's complex,

2145
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:09,120
Speaker 1: but I try to clarify it. And you know, you know,

2146
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:13,680
Speaker 1: a thousand words for people. UM my books. Remember most

2147
02:11:13,760 --> 02:11:17,280
Speaker 1: recent book this A Thousand Trails home. Uh, Living with

2148
02:11:17,400 --> 02:11:21,400
Speaker 1: Caribou is uh available on there if you want, uh,

2149
02:11:21,560 --> 02:11:23,640
Speaker 1: you know me to ship you on and uh and

2150
02:11:23,760 --> 02:11:25,880
Speaker 1: sign it however you want, but it's uh then you

2151
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:30,360
Speaker 1: got paid for postage. So there's other sources. UM. My

2152
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:36,200
Speaker 1: publisher on that is a nonprofit Mountaineers Books UM out

2153
02:11:36,280 --> 02:11:40,280
Speaker 1: of Seattle, and they are you know, strong advocates of um,

2154
02:11:41,040 --> 02:11:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, um environmental protections and other the use of

2155
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 1: the outdoors, and so ordering from them, I imagine um

2156
02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 1: uh mountaineers dot org u is uh potentially makes more

2157
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:01,280
Speaker 1: of the money go to a good cause. UM. But

2158
02:12:02,000 --> 02:12:07,680
Speaker 1: my publishers have all been nonprofits and and haven't I say,

2159
02:12:07,720 --> 02:12:10,160
Speaker 1: I make enough money and from writing to pay for beer.

2160
02:12:10,240 --> 02:12:16,000
Speaker 1: But it just keeps going up. Uh yeah, hundred hundred

2161
02:12:16,080 --> 02:12:20,040
Speaker 1: ten dollars and cots to be for five six packs um,

2162
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:23,960
Speaker 1: And so that's become a little challenge. And that's not

2163
02:12:24,120 --> 02:12:26,680
Speaker 1: something kind of goofy yanni beer. That's probably like this

2164
02:12:26,760 --> 02:12:30,360
Speaker 1: regular beer yea, So like is it hoppy? Like? How

2165
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:33,400
Speaker 1: how citruacy? Yeah, you might have brewing your own over

2166
02:12:33,440 --> 02:12:36,000
Speaker 1: the winter something. Oh well, no comment. I think it's

2167
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:41,640
Speaker 1: a felony. But up there all right. Seth Cantner, author

2168
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:45,720
Speaker 1: most recently of the phenomenal book A Thousand Trails Home,

2169
02:12:45,880 --> 02:12:50,640
Speaker 1: Living with Caribou um, and many many, many damn near

2170
02:12:50,680 --> 02:12:53,600
Speaker 1: All the themes we covered in today's episode will be

2171
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:57,960
Speaker 1: picked up. Stay tuned Wednesday's drop. You'll see how Seth

2172
02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 1: Cantor does on the Trivia Show and spend there, probably

2173
02:13:00,600 --> 02:13:06,160
Speaker 1: will throw him a bone like what Seth Cantor's favorite color. Uh,

2174
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:08,840
Speaker 1: he'll probably throw him some kind of bone, but UH,

2175
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:11,760
Speaker 1: stay tuned. Game on sockers coming up.