1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and Joe McCormick. This episode of 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind, and I suppose the next 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: one as well will be dealing with gray whales. This 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: is a topic that I was inspired to cover because 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: my family was fortunate enough to get to go on 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: a trip to Mexico, to the Mexican state of Baja California, 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: sir to one of the breeding lagoons that the gray 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: whales migrate too every year. Specifically, we went to Ojo 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: Delia Bray Lagoon. That means I of the hair due 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: to the way it's it's shaped. And yeah, I got 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: to see these magnificent animals close up, got to observe 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: them for a couple of days. It was. It was 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic and certainly ignited my curiosity about these creatures. 16 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: I didn't get to see your photos because I'm not 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: on the gram, but Rachel was raving about them to me. Yeah, 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: I'll once this episode comes out off to share some 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: maybe in the discussion module the Facebook group or our 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: discord for the show, and if you don't have access 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: to those. Just email us and and well we'll hook 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: you up. But yeah, a lot. I got some great footage, 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: my wife got some great footage, and and more than anything, 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: we just got to take in this amazing location, this 25 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: amazing landscape, and these amazing animals. So this lagoon is 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: one of their calving grounds and you were out in 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: boats getting to observe them right up close right. Yeah, 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: this um, this is one of several different lagoons where 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: where where this particular population goes to. When we were 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: visiting there, there were hundreds of whales present in this lagoon. 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: It's a pretty vast lagoon. Um, it's surrounded on all 32 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: sides with this kind of desolate and haunting landscape that's 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: full of like salt, sand and bramble. I mean, it's there. 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: There are organisms they're either coyotes around and and other creatures, 35 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: but it's um, it's it's a unique landscape. Like just 36 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: flying into Guerrera Negro, the nearest town, was was really 37 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: breathtaking just because the landscape is so beautiful. But the 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: first morning we went out on these boats, they were 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: also these intense photam organa mirages on the horizon that 40 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: really added to the surreal feel of the place. What 41 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: were they like images out they look like mountains or 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: they were the surrounding um mountain, like some of the 43 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: peaks that were visible on the and also some of 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: the dunes, so like dunes and peaks. So yeah, it 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: was and it looked like floating islands on the horizon. Wow. 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: And then of course closer in you have all of 47 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: these breaching whales and spy hopping whales and it's it's amazing. Now. 48 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: I do want to stress that in this particular situation, 49 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: only a few boats were permitted on the water at 50 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: a time. There was no chasing of the whales. There 51 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: was no feeding of the whales. Um they don't eat 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: while they are there, and we'll get into the reasons 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: for this as we move through these episodes. But but 54 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: there's no need to chase, and there's no need to 55 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: it to try and bait them in, because they're very curious. 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: They come up to the boats, they inspect the boats, 57 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: and sometimes they're obviously scraping their skin against the holes 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: of the boats to perhaps to relieve themselves with some 59 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: of the parasites that they have, the exoparasites and we'll 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: discuss that as well in probably in well in this episode. Actually, 61 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: other times, though they're not scraping against the boats. Sometimes 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: they're just kind of pushing them around a little bit, 63 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: like playing with them, I guess, to try and figure 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: out what their mind might be. Other times they're they're 65 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: just kind of breaching a little bit. They're spy hopping. Um, 66 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: they and they seem to have some sort of interest 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: in what's going on in the boats or with the 68 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: boats humans will reach out and touch them, and it 69 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: seems like the whales like this on some level. Um, 70 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's a very very very strange situation, 71 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: Like it feels kind of like certainly there's a sense 72 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: of curiosity on both sides, but there's also this, you know, 73 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: if you want to get spiritual about it, there's almost 74 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: this feeling of communion. So sometimes they'll kind of bring 75 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: part of their body out of the water or breach. 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: But also you said spy hopping is that when they 77 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: raise their eyes above the water level to see what's 78 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: above the surface. Well, in other species, such as the 79 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: orca um, there's there's definitely more of an eye coming 80 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: above the water. With the with the gray whales, they're 81 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: not even necessarily getting their eyes above water, so it's, uh, 82 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's there. There's some differing takes 83 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: on why exactly they're doing this, but they'll, yeah, they'll 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: kind of spy hoop next to the boat, and they're 85 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: spy hopping out further away from the boats as well, 86 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: and um and then yea, sometimes they're rolling around in 87 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the water and kind of and you'll even like look 88 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: into their eye that sometimes they are looking up through 89 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: the water at you, and that's one of those moments 90 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: where you're just you know, you're you're you're thinking about 91 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: like what are they seeing? What are they possibly thinking 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: as they look up at us? What do they think 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: we are? And then you also look at this whale 94 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: and you just, man, I was just thinking, like they've 95 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: they've seen things I can't even imagine, you know, And 96 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: this this particular whale is going to see things just 97 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: in the months ahead that I can scarcely imagine. So 98 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm very envious of this experience. And uh, and I 99 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: would love to see gray whales up close one day too, 100 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: But I have seen plenty of video footage and at 101 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: least from what I've seen several things stand out. One 102 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: that they kind of I don't know if this makes 103 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: any sense, but they look more like rocks than any 104 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: other type of whale I can think of having seen, 105 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: and that may be aided by the many barnacles attached 106 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: to the outside of them, which, as we'll talk about 107 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: later on, very characteristic of the species of whale, having 108 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: a lot of barnacle loading on the outside. But in 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: looking at them, they can look very much like a 110 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: large gray boulder covered in lichen, almost where the barnacles 111 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: are kind of like the lichen patches, or at least 112 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: it seemed that way to me. M And then the 113 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: other thing being that their nostrils look very uh more 114 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: typically mammalian rather than the blow a hole that you 115 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: would see on the back of a lot of whales, 116 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: where you might perceive at least as a single blowhole. Uh. 117 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: The gray whale nostrils I recall seeing are very distinctly 118 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: separate nostrils that kind of flare more like a dog's 119 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: nostrils might. Oh yeah, yeah, this this is not your 120 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: your cartoon whale. You have those those very nostril like 121 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: blow holes on top of the head, and you if 122 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: you're if you're out on one of these lagoons, you 123 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: see see that a lot. In fact, a lot of 124 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: people end up getting spre You're constantly misted by the 125 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: spray from them, even if they're not super close to 126 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: the boats, just because you know they're they're just kind 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: and up they're they're blowing that blow hole. There's this 128 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: mist in the air of water and also I guess 129 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: probably some some whale snut in there as well. But 130 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: they do have to your point, they do have this 131 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: kind of rocky appearance. Part of it's the barnacle load, 132 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: but also that their their their skin is very modeled 133 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: and um and scarred, and it could look like it 134 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: is it is stone um. When if you do touch it, 135 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: I thought that it felt more or less like a 136 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: big eggplant. That's the kind of feeling I've had from it, 137 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: Like there's a little like there's a softness to it, 138 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: but it is also you know, it's like a that's 139 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of wet suit feeling as well. Oh, another thing 140 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: about their skin is I and will come back to this, 141 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: but I was surprised by their whiskers. We've talked on 142 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: the show before about the evolution of whales and the 143 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: loss of body hair. So I wasn't prepared for the whiskers. 144 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: Somehow I missed this in leading up to this whale experience. 145 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: But they have quite a few whiskers. Um the other 146 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: thing that I was surprised about, because I'm some level, 147 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: I was prepared for this gentleness, So I was prepared 148 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: for this curiosity. I knew what I was getting into 149 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,119 Speaker 1: with that. But but also you would you would see 150 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: them moving underneath the water. And these are big animals. 151 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: They're we're talking uh, fourteen point nine meters or forty 152 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: nine feet in length, weights of up to forty one 153 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: tons or so. So these are like school bus sized organisms, 154 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: and they're they're often very curious and gentle next to 155 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: the boat, but they can they can move with such 156 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: speed and strength, and you see that occasionally, especially when 157 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: they're engaging and mating behavior further away from the boats, 158 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: they'll they'll surge underneath the water, and you're reminded just 159 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: how how powerful and how potentially um destructive these creatures 160 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: are if they had have they had reason to be 161 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: destructive towards you. You know, it's funny. This reminds me 162 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: of all these passages in Moby Dick describing whales. We 163 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: know now from plenty of examples like this, just like 164 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: as a matter of habit do not seem to attack 165 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: humans or do anything very aggressive, at least not most 166 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: of the time. But described in these older documents with 167 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: absolute horror, just like these whales are monsters. They are killers. 168 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: They will crush you, they will swallow you whole. Yeah. Absolutely, 169 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: and in fact I ran across this wonderful description. This 170 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: is from a paper in The American Naturalist from eighteen 171 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: eighty eight by J. D. Katon, titled the California gray Whale. 172 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: The author writes, quote, of all the known species of whales, 173 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: this is the most cunning, courageous, and vicious. So terrible 174 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: is it that, with the old implements of harpoon and lance, 175 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: but few whalemen would court an encounter with it, and 176 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: it early received the name of the devil fish. I 177 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: have no account that it ever maliciously attacked an unoffending object, 178 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: Yet when it found it self pursued where escape was difficult, 179 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: even before it was struck, it has been known to 180 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: turn upon pursuers and dash a boat to fragments with 181 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: a single blow. Of its powerful flukes, and so has 182 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: many a life been lost? Okay, well, at least this 183 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: source acknowledges that this kind of behavior would be like 184 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: in response to extreme distress, like when the whale is 185 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: being attacked. Yeah. Yeah, he is acknowledging that like this, 186 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: this is aggression that's coming out of obvious whaling scenarios. Yeah. 187 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: And you know you the sad fact is, and especially 188 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: this in the show before, you can't you can't remove 189 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: whaling from our understanding of these creatures. I mean that 190 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: the history is intertwined there with our understanding of the organism, 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: and so we have various things where the name comes 192 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: from whaler observations, like, for instance, whale lice, which will 193 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: discuss they're not actually lice, but whalers compare them to lice, 194 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: and that's where the name comes from. I do believe 195 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: gray whales specifically are thought to have once been much 196 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: more abundant, right, but that whaling in particular reduced their 197 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: populations to present levels where there's a sustainable number of 198 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: gray whales in the population on the western coast of 199 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: the American continent, but the population that lives on the 200 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: other side of the Pacific on the eastern coast of 201 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: the Asian Mainland is much more reduced, but in both 202 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: cases reduced by whaling. Yeah, and then there was once 203 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: a North Atlantic gray whale population. These were thought to 204 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: have fed around Newfoundland, the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, Iceland, 205 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: and Europe's North North Sea and for their winter breeding 206 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: lagoons or refuges. It's thought that they might have visited 207 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: the coasts of Georgia and the Carolinas here in the States, 208 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: as well as uncertain spots along the coast of Spain, Portugal, 209 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: and Morocco. But this population was essentially extinct by the 210 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: late seventeen and early eighteenth centuries do at least in 211 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: part to whaling. Interestingly enough, there have been proposals to 212 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: try and introduce reintroduce the North Pacific gray whale into 213 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: this region to restore the population. And I've also seen 214 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: speculations about what might occur in the future due to 215 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: climate change, that as we have less sea ice, it 216 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: might enable the gray whales on their own to recolonize 217 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: this part of the ocean. I guess it would be 218 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: very difficult and expensive to try to force a recolonization 219 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: by human intervention, Yeah, because I mean nothing else. We're 220 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: talking about enormous creatures and how are you going to 221 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: get them there? I didn't, I didn't look super hard 222 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: at the proposals. They may have a very straightforward solution 223 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: to this. I'm not sure if they would be airlifting 224 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: them or shipping them across land or exactly what the 225 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: scenario is, but it has not become an actionable thing 226 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: at least yet. Well, let's talk a little bit more 227 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: about the physical characteristics of the gray whale here. Because 228 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: I guess we are um an audio program. You can 229 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: certainly look up lots of great images and footage and illustrations. Uh. 230 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: One of the books that was one of my my 231 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: prime sources here as a book by Mark Carwardine, The 232 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: Handbook of Whales, Dolphins and Porpoises of the World. Highly 233 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: recommend this book for anyone out there who's into whales, 234 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: dolphins and porpoises. Fabulous illustrations and some great photographs and 235 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: just lots of wonderful information, uh that you know, can 236 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: aid you just sort of in general general interest in 237 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: these organisms or if you're into citing them and has 238 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: like you know, how to how to pick out these 239 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: various creatures, by their markings, by their their spouts, by 240 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: their flukes, that sort of thing. So that's going to 241 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: be one of the books I'm going to keep referring 242 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: back to, for sure. But getting back to what we 243 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. Yes, these are these are whales. 244 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: These are large creatures, large whales. By some rankings, I 245 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,119 Speaker 1: think they're only the eighth largest whale species. But considering 246 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: that number one, the blue whale, is the largest animal 247 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: that's ever lived, there's not really no shame in coming 248 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: at a number eight. Gray whale can reach forty nine 249 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: feet in length. That's the fourteen point nine meters way, 250 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: about forty tons. The females are larger than the males, 251 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: and even the newborns are approximately fourteen to sixteen feet long. 252 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: It's roughly four point two to four point eight meters 253 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: in wigh, around two thousand pounds or around nine hundred 254 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: and seven kilograms, So we're talking about big creatures here. 255 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: Cannot stress that enough, And I guess it's helpful that 256 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: the newborn calves are already big because it's when a 257 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: whale is young that it's most susceptible to predators like 258 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: the predation on adult gray whales, from what I understand, 259 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: is pretty rare, whereas attempts by animals such as orcas 260 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: to prey on the calves is pretty common. Yeah. Yeah, 261 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: because the healthy adult whale is a healthy adult gray 262 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: whale is a formidable opponent unless conditions are just right. 263 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: And then, of course, uh, the the young are going 264 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: to be the primary focal point of predators. Okay, so 265 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: we've established they're big, we should also come back to 266 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the fact that, yes, they are more or less gray 267 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: in color, often look like just a big old slab 268 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: of granite, kind of like an obelisk in the water. Yes. Now, 269 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: one initial question that came up for me, of course, 270 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: especially as we were dealing in our notes here, is 271 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: it gray g R E y or is it g 272 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: r A y um. I generally assume those spellings are interchangeable. 273 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: It's like American English or British English. That's how yeah, 274 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: ye read it. Yeah, and that's one of the main distinctions. 275 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: Um Mark Carterwine in his book stresses that that either 276 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: is correct. You know, obviously gry is more common in 277 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: British English and gray is more common in American English. 278 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: And generally we're referring to what has perceived to be 279 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: the color of the creature, though much of its gray 280 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: appearance is due to those accumulated barnacles, skin lesions scarring 281 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: their actual skin, though is still often described as light 282 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: to dark gray, or maybe a gray brown. However, it's 283 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: also acceptable to consider that we dubbed them gray whales 284 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: in reference to British zoologist John Edward Gray Gray, who 285 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: lived eighteen hundred through eighteen seventy five, who placed the 286 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: whale in its own genus in eighteen sixty four. On 287 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: top of that, its scientific name is as Richtius robustus, 288 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: referring to nineteenth century Danish zoologist Frederick Estricht who lived 289 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: seventeen ninety eight through eighteen sixty three. So it could 290 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: have been the Eshricht whale. We we're glad that it's 291 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: the gray whale. Yeah, yeah, rolls off the tongue for 292 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: us at any rate, a little, a little easier. It's 293 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: been known by other names, of course, the gray back, 294 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: the muscle digger, the mud digger, the scrag whale, ripsack, hardhead, 295 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: and of course by American whalers the devil fish. That 296 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: was the one referenced in that they quote from the 297 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: article in the American Naturalists from the nineteenth century. Correct. Yes, 298 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: now there are no recognized forms or subspecies, though there 299 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: are two possible sub populations according to Carwadine, So we 300 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: have the eastern North Pacific and the western North Pacific 301 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: gray whale. But there also seems to be some cross 302 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: breeding between these two populations in the Mexican lagoons. Now 303 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: again you can put all of your sort of cartoon 304 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: whale appearances to the side, because the reality is somewhat different, 305 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: not only with the blowholes, but for starters, we should 306 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: point out that this is a baleen whale, not a 307 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: toothed whale. Baleen whales were once toothed whales earlier on 308 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: in their evolution, and we do have fossil evidence of 309 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: whales with both teeth and baleen, but they have adapted. 310 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: The gray whales have adapted to thrive as pure filter feeders. 311 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: So the baleen is a bristly material that lives inside 312 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: the whale's mouth which they use to filter feed by. Well, 313 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: there are various different ways the different species do it, 314 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: but by by forcing water through these sort of sieves. 315 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: Natural biological sieves the billing hares which capture the plankton 316 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: or the krill, or the small bits of organic matter 317 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: that the whales live on. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like 318 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: these these keratin baleen plates. And this is something I 319 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: hadn't given a lot of thought to before. But there 320 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: are different strategies to use with your baling. There are 321 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: two main strategies. Two of the main strategies anywhere, gulping 322 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: and straining, both carried out near the water surface by 323 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: different species of whales. Baleen whales, like right whales, will 324 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: slim swim through clouds of krill, open mouth, skimming them 325 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: from the water. Meanwhile, fin whales gulp up water full 326 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: of fish and or krill and then push the water 327 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: out as if through a sieve. But the gray whales 328 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: are different. They're the only modern baleen whale that dives 329 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: down deep, and I mean this is deep relative to 330 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: the waters they inhabit. These are not deep water whales. 331 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: They're not like sperm whales. They tend to stick to 332 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: coastal regions and the continental shelf, but they'll go down 333 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: deep for these regions and they'll feed as bottom feeders. 334 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: They'll turn on one side, and interestingly they are there 335 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: is like a right handedness to the gray whales. Most 336 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: whales seem to favor their right side, but some do 337 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: left instead, and they'll vacuum the water up, vacuum up water, mud, sand, 338 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: and most importantly various organisms there in the muck. And 339 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: then they'll use their tongue to push out the mud, 340 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: sand and water, but retain all these little organisms and 341 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: things they can digest in their billing. Yeah, and it's interesting, 342 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: apparently you can tell which side a particular gray whale 343 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: favors because the side it favors is generally more scraped 344 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: up and deep barnacled, because that's the side that goes 345 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 1: down in plows into the ocean floor. And also their 346 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: baleen plates are shorter than in other extent whales. So 347 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: these other baleen whales that use different feeding techniques, I 348 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: think they tend to have longer balin for straining out 349 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 1: the things that they need to eat. Now, as for 350 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: what they're eating out of the muck, Carveting points out 351 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: that a good eighty species of fish and invertebrates have 352 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: been identified as gray whale prey. However, most of the 353 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: prey that they consume consists of benthic and planktonic organisms. 354 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: Planktonic meaning, of course, plankton and benthic organisms being various 355 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: isopods that live abundantly in the sand. Apparently benthic amphipods 356 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: make up a good ninety percent of their diet. But 357 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: they're they're reasonably opportunistic and may also be shifting their 358 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: foraging habits in Arctic waters due to climate change. So basically, 359 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: my understanding based on the they're reading here, is like 360 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: they're they're going down to the mud and the muck 361 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: and the sand to get most of their food, but 362 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: if they happen to encounter some sort of plankton on 363 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: the way up, you know they're gonna breathe it in. 364 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: They're gonna they're gonna go ahead and take that in 365 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: as well. They're typically diving down thirty to sixty meters, 366 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: but they may go up to one hundred and twenty 367 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: or even one hundred and seventy, and again, opportunistic feeding 368 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: may happen at any depth, but the seabed is their 369 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: main target now. The summer is their prime feeding period, 370 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: and of course they're large whales. They're eating large meals. 371 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: They'll eat anywhere from like one to one point three 372 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: tons of the stuff per day, and the remainder of 373 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: the year entails a lot of fasting, including their migrations 374 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: to and from these calving and mating lagoons. Okay, so 375 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: they typically are going to be stocking up on food, 376 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: they're eating, they're they're banging their heads into the sediment 377 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: up in the Arctic waters, and then they migrate down 378 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: south for calving and rearing young. Yeah. Yeah, and um, yeah, 379 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: so you might think of them as just this kind 380 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: of enormous freight train of a creature that sucks up 381 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: mud and anything in the mud in the sand from 382 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: you know, from the waters that they inhabit and just 383 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: eat all summer long, Yeah, and then go go south 384 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: for the winter. Kind of the catfish of whales. Yeah, 385 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: they are. I thought about this as well. Yeah, they're 386 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: kind of because the catfish for the bottom feeders, I 387 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: grew up around and grew up here in about and 388 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: so yeah, they're they're kind of using the catfish strategy, 389 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: but on an epic scale. But don't try to go 390 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: noodling for gray whales. No, No, that doesn't sound like 391 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: a good idea now once a moll note, I think 392 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: I did read that there are some accepts. There seems 393 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: to be some evidence that there are some whales that 394 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: stay north for an extended period of time, but in 395 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: general we see this migration occurring. Other important physical notes, 396 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: just to describe them, they have slender and small heads 397 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: even in relation to their body size, certainly when you 398 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: compare them to amously big headed whales like the sperm whale, 399 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: a toothed whale. They have a stocky body with a 400 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: hump two thirds of the way down their back, along 401 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: with eight to fourteen quote unquote knuckles Further down. They 402 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: don't have a dorsal fin. They just have a small hump. 403 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: And like I mentioned earlier, they have whiskers, and apparently 404 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: they have more whiskers than any other whale. I was 405 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: not prepared for this, but the whiskers are very prominent, 406 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: and I was reading about this on the NAA website 407 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: and they point out that these are more or less 408 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: like the whiskers you'd encounter on any mammal. They are 409 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: tactile sensors. Now Carveting notes that in the older whales, 410 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: though many of these whiskers are quote unquote obliterated by 411 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: scarring and barnacles. However, wow, if the barnacles are in 412 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: some cases obliterating their sensory organs, I feel like that 413 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: that offers some input on question we're going to address 414 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: in a minute, which is about these barnacles. Now, we 415 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: mentioned them earlier, but they are a very your feature 416 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: that people notice when they look at gray whales. It 417 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: looks horrible. Some people think, you know, they look at 418 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: this and they're like, oh my god, these poor whales. 419 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: This must be a purely parasitic infestation where where the 420 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: whale is dying because of all these barnacles on it. 421 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's more of an open question 422 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: exactly what the symbiotic relationship between the whales and their 423 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: barnacles is. Is it parasitism, is it mutualism? Is it 424 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: a commensalism commensalism where the barnacle would get a benefit, 425 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: but it just doesn't really matter to the whale. We're 426 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: going to address that in a minute. Yeah, it's I 427 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: know some of you might be thinking like, I just 428 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: want to hear about the gray whales. I don't want 429 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: to hear about the barnacles. I don't want to hear 430 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: about the worka but but if there's the thing, you 431 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: can't talk about the gray whale without talking about the orca, 432 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: which will probably get into more in the second episode. 433 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: And you can't talk about them without talking about their 434 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: barnacles because they're just so so much a part of 435 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: who they are and when what they look like. Now 436 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: there again, there may be, like you said, there may 437 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: be a little more nuanced to exactly what the relationship 438 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: might be between the barnacles and the whale lice and 439 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: the whales, but for the most part, they're often referred 440 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: to as exoparasites, so we're going to probably keep using 441 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: that term, even if we're going to, you know, put 442 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: an asterisk by it and come back to it. They 443 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: do have quite an exoparasite load. Newborns are born without 444 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: any barnacles, without any lice. They're an almost uniform dark gray, 445 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: almost black color, so aside from being smaller, you can 446 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: definitely identify them in the water based on their coloration, 447 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: but they swiftly obtain these parasites as well. In addition 448 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: to of course scarring from not only the parasites but 449 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: also from threats and feeding. It gives them a very 450 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: highly variable appearance, and by feeding, I mean their own feeding, 451 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: going down and scraping themselves against the bottom of the 452 00:25:53,280 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: sea floor. Before we get into the barnacle, though, I 453 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: want to talk to just a little bit about the 454 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: whale lice, because this is all part of the exo 455 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: parasite load, which according to it to Carbondine, adult gray 456 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: whales carry more exo parasites than any other whale species 457 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: on average, more than one hundred and eighty kilograms or 458 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: three hundred and ninety six pounds of the stuff, So 459 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: they get a lot living on them. Yeah, And I 460 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: didn't do a breakdown of like how how that would 461 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: that would that sort of parasite load would be like 462 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: for the human body. But I think a lot of 463 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: our repulsion to barnacles and these these these rather large 464 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: whale lies is that. Yeah, we think about ourselves, we 465 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: think about our pets, and if those were on us, 466 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: obviously we would want them remove pronto. Hold on, rob 467 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: I just tried to do the math on the on 468 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: the loading of the barnacles and whale license stuff by weight. 469 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: So if we're saying that adult gray whales can grow 470 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: up to a out forty tons, which is eighty thousand pounds, 471 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: and then you compare that to you said they could 472 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: have up to what like almost four hundred pounds of 473 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: loading of barnicles and stuff. That is about half a 474 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: percent of the body weight. So if you translate that 475 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: to a human, I don't know, a human somebody weighs 476 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty pounds, what's half of one percent 477 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: of that body weight on the outside of them? Oh, 478 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. Its having like, you know, three quarters 479 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: of a pound of parasites on the outside of you. 480 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: That bad. I don't know how many barnacles would that be? 481 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. M Let's say it's one barnacle which 482 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: you put up with. That's way more than one barnicle' 483 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: that's a number of barnacles. Well, I'm being generous here. 484 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: Let's let's go ahead and pare it down to just one, 485 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: maybe two barnacles. I feel like that would still feel 486 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: like one or two barnacles too many for us. But 487 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: then again, we don't live in the ocean. We don't 488 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: have barnicles, so it's not appropriate for us to really 489 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: make judgment calls like this. Okay, Well, apologies for the 490 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: rough math. I may have screwed something up there, but 491 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: of it I tried. Now I think you captured the 492 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: general feel of it, because again we have to think 493 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: about just how big these creatures are, and as we'll 494 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: probably get into the barnacles or not covering them head 495 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: to toe. It's not like a suit of barnacles. They 496 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: tend to be clusters in certain places like top of 497 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: the head, right behind the head, and some in other places. Yeah, yeah, 498 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: they got patches, little colonies. Yeah. Yeah, they have to 499 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: keep a low profile to keep from being pulled off 500 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: by the water. Though again they'll they'll often scrape against things, 501 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: and I'm off the top of my head, I'm not 502 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: sure if they're necessarily scratching to remove themselves, remove the 503 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: barnacles from their body, or if they're dealing with like 504 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: general skin discomfort or it has to do with the lice, etc. 505 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: But they end up scraping off the barnacles. Anyway, the 506 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: one whale that we saw scraping against the bottom of 507 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: the boat, there would be this colossal scraping sound and 508 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: then like a cloud of pieces of barnacle and like 509 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: I guess, maybe some dried skin and probably some loose 510 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: whale lice would come floating up through the water. That 511 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: is gross. But to remind again you said earlier, I 512 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: think you said that the lice on these whales are 513 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: not actually lice in the sense that we usually mean 514 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: like the parasitic insects that can be found on land mammals. Right. Yeah, 515 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: we call them lies because whalers saw them on the 516 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: bodies of the whales they were slaughtering, and they were 517 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: they just made the you know, I guess a natural 518 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: comparison to be made to lyce that occur on human bodies, 519 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, well, those are whale lies. But 520 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: they're they're not lies. They're actually a type of crustacean 521 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: that's related more to the skeleton shrimp, an organism we've 522 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: talked about on the show before. So what are the 523 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: so called lice doing on these whales? Okay, So, if 524 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: you pick up Carbadine's book, and again I recommend it 525 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: for whale fans out there, he has illustrations of all 526 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: four species of whale lies that you'll find on the 527 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: gray whale. Three of them are are only found on 528 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: gray whales, and then there's another variety that is found 529 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: on gray whales and bowhead whales. But yeah, they're these 530 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: They get kind of big. They can be anywhere between 531 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: three and thirty millimeters long, so at the largest a 532 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: little over an inch. A lot of the photographs you 533 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: see of the barnacles on the bodies of gray whales, 534 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: you can also see the lice clustered around them. They 535 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: have this kind of the kind of like these kind 536 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: of ridges on their bodies, though they may not be 537 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: moving during the footage. They may live in populations of 538 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: up to seventy five hundred on a single whale, and 539 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: they generally live and die on the same whale, though 540 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: there is some degree of transference that takes place when 541 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: the whales are in close confinance with each other. But 542 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: they have no free swimming stage in their development, No, 543 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: no stage in their development in which they're swimming free 544 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: and they're running across other whales. If they're going to 545 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: jump ship, they've got to like jump ship straight to 546 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: another whale. Yeah, but all this, like the brand ending 547 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: of whale lies, it just made me sort of automatically assume, well, 548 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: they're drinking whale blood. Clearly, that's what they're doing, but 549 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: that's not what they're doing. Carboding notes that they don't 550 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: drink blood. They eat whale skin that's come off just 551 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, like like old essentially like eating dry skin, 552 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: except in the water. They're possibly eating a little bit 553 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: of bacteria and algae as well, and they'll also eat 554 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: damage tissue. So carboding, writes quote. Though usually considered parasites, 555 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: they might be more accurately described as cleaning symbians awsome, 556 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: maybe providing a benefit to the whale. Yeah, yeah, now, 557 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: it's it's still worth noting that if there is an 558 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: excessively large population, that might be an indicator of poor 559 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: health for an individual whale. But you know, that's you know, obviously, 560 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: if an organism is in poor health, a lot of 561 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: things are going to be out of whack, including the 562 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: amount of creatures living on its hide. Yes, and that's 563 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: true for organisms living on and in all kinds of 564 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: other larger organisms. It's true for us, like our gut 565 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: microbiome is useful to us. All of those bacteria in 566 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: our guts are helpful, but if there something goes wrong 567 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: with our immune system, they can turn opportunistic. Absolutely. Now, 568 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: coming back to the barnacles Carveding notes that quote the 569 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: barnacles are thought to be host specific to gray whales, 570 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: though there are isolated examples on captive bottlenose dolphins and 571 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: beluga whales and one wild killer whale, and their life 572 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: cycle is synchronous with that of their hosts. And he 573 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: notes elsewhere that there are four species of whale acorn 574 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: barnacles in general, in three genera. But we're talking about 575 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: one particular species of acorn barnacle that is found on 576 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: the skin of the gray whale, and that is Cryptolepis RACHIANECTI. Sorry, 577 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: barnacles if I butchered your scientific man a little bit there, Joe, 578 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: you were kind enough to include a lot of close 579 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: up images of art of acorn barnacles in our notes here. 580 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: Would you describe these for the listeners? Well, different barnacles 581 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: have different outer appearances, and I guess this is because barnacles, 582 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: much like coral, they are small marine invertebrates, but they 583 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: are perhaps most visually notable for the external mineral structures 584 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: that they build, and those structures can sometimes be confused 585 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: with the flesh of the animals themselves. But barnacles are 586 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: actually crustaceans, so they are closely related to animals like 587 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: shrimp and crabs. And when you've seen barnacles in the past, 588 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: probably the main thing you've noticed are these external plates, 589 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: which are made of calcium carbonate. They're made of the 590 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: same material as eggshells or oyster shells or coral skeletons 591 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: and so forth, And in barnacles, these calcium carbonate plates 592 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: can have different front appearances. Some kind of like flower 593 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: buds made out of stone, or some look like cement pumpkins, 594 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: some look like tiny volcano calderas. If you zoom way out, 595 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: some of the colonies look as I mentioned earlier, kind 596 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: of like groupings of lichen on a piece of granite. 597 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: But if you zoom in and you see the shapes 598 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: and you see the kind of holes at the top 599 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: of each barnacle, they also kind of resembled the photos 600 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: that people freak out about online. And I'm never sure 601 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: how much of this freak out is kind of performative 602 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: ironic thing, but about like tryptophobia images, you know, the 603 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: lotus pod thing. I don't share this reaction, but while 604 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: reading about barnacles, I came to glean that some people 605 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: are deeply viscerally repulsed by the appearance of them. And 606 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: I didn't even know if I was going to mention this, 607 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: but I was seeing a couple of cases where there'd 608 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: be like an article on the internet about barnacles or 609 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: that featured pictures of barnacles. Then you scroll down you 610 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: look at the comments, and some people are reacting not 611 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: just with disgust, I mean there is plenty of that, 612 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: but with like moral outrage at the author for posting 613 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: these pictures, like you did something bad by showing me barnacles. 614 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: I don't quite get that, but I think it may 615 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: overlap with the trip to phobia thing, which, as I 616 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: said a minute ago, I still am not sure how 617 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: much of that is kind of like the creepy clown thing, 618 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: like like a fear that people are playing up on 619 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: purpose to be funny, or how much like their moral 620 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: outrage is just like a genuine emotional overload reaction. Yeah, 621 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure either, but I will say that, you know, 622 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: with the particularly with the acorn barnacles here, they look 623 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot to me like the eye of sauron. They 624 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: have that kind of appearance. Yeah, so there's something a 625 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: little unnerving about them. Also, I think it's one thing 626 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: to see barnacles like this on say the whole of 627 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: the ship, or you know, barnacles of another variety, But 628 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: when they're on a living organism, um, I think maybe 629 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: there's sometimes sort of category confusion going on. Yes, and 630 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: particularly with these sort of round aperture appearing barnacles, we 631 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: I think our minds instantly go to poor an anomalies. 632 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: We think of like clogged pores, We think of pimples, 633 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: we think of various openings that may occur in um 634 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: diseased flesh. And that's maybe where our mind goes, like 635 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: that's the nearest analogy that we have as as surface 636 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: dwellers and uh, and so we think about all that 637 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: when we see barnacles on sale whale. Yeah, I can 638 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: understand that, and I certainly share that I react differently 639 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: when I see them on an animal versus on just 640 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, growing on the you know, the the piling 641 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: that appear is resting on or something. Yeah, you know, 642 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: seeing the whales in the wild and seeing one close up, 643 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: like they're close enough where you could you could touch 644 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: the barnacles if you wanted to. I did not, m 645 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: and I only only touch the whale once. I'm like, 646 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: that's good. We need to make physical contact with the 647 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: great whale once and I'm good. But you know, there 648 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: is this kind of like feeling that that you end 649 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: up having her. It's like should I help? Should I scrape? 650 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: You know, not that you would, but you know you 651 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: want to sort of help the creature. Again. You think 652 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: of it almost like a dog, whereas you're if your 653 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: dog came up and your dog had some sort of orrels, 654 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: seed pods or something stuck in its fur, like you'd 655 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: want to help it out. If your cat has a 656 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: has something stuck in its fur, you're going to reach 657 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: in there and uh and pull it out and get 658 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,240 Speaker 1: bitten as as a thank you. But you know, the whales, 659 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: they're not asking for this treatment. Well, And as I'll 660 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 1: get to in a minute, I think there's more ambiguity 661 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: than we met realizing about exactly what the pluses and 662 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: minuses of this relationship are, but a little more a 663 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: little more about barnacles themselves. So the life cycle of 664 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 1: a barnacle goes like this. It begins as a microscopic 665 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: larva that looks kind of like a cross between a 666 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: flea and to shrimp. And in this larval stage, after 667 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 1: being released by the parent, the barnacle swims around freely 668 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: in the water column, so it begins life as a 669 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: free swimming organism. It's just one of the trillions of 670 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: zooplankton bobbing around out there in the ocean. And as 671 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: a larva, the barnacle's primary mission is to find a home. 672 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: It's looking for real estate it can stake out where 673 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: it will spend the rest of its life. It does 674 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: this by exploring various surfaces and testing the properties of 675 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: these surfaces. A lot of species are attracted to chemicals 676 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: secreted by adult barnacles that let them know they have 677 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: encountered a good place to swarm and congregate. And when 678 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: the larva finds a surface it approves of, it proceeds 679 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: to glue its head down permanently. So the barnacle secretes 680 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: a form of quick drying adhesive from its antennae, and 681 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: it cements itself and this is again head down to 682 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: the place where it will spend the rest of its life. 683 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: Barnacle cement is one of the strongest, if not the 684 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: single strongest adhesive substance known in nature, so much that 685 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: scientists have studied it in hopes of developing better synthetic 686 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: glues for use in medicine and microelectronics, especially in conditions 687 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: where you need to glue things together that are already wet. 688 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: That's kind of interesting property, as like, so you're already 689 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: under the water, both surfaces are wet, so how exactly 690 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: do you glue this together effectively? Interesting. Once a barnacle 691 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: is fixed to whatever surface it has chosen, it begins 692 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: building its calcium carbonate outer plates, and it begins eating 693 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: and growing. And the barnacle's shell on the outside typically 694 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: consists of plates that surround the animal on all sides 695 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: to form a kind of cone, and then usually a 696 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: few more plates on top that form a sort of 697 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: door that the barnacle can close when it's threatened or 698 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: closed to conserve moisture, say, if it's in an intertidal area, 699 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: when the tide goes out, the barnacles exposed to the air, 700 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: it can close up its door to keep some liquid inside, 701 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: and then of course it can open them again when 702 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 1: it is time to feed. Barnacles are filter feeders, much 703 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: like baleen whales, but while whales feed by pushing water 704 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: through their baleen, barnacles feed by waving their feet around 705 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: in the water. Barnacles have these little legs called cerri, 706 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: which are segmented like the appendages of other crustaceans, but 707 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: covered in long little filaments, so they look like a 708 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: cross between curly shrimp legs and peacock feathers. Rob I've 709 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: attached some pictures for you to look at while I'm 710 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: describing here. So they often get the kind of like 711 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: fan these out, and they do really kind of look 712 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: like a fan a bunch of these legs arranged in 713 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: parallel with these little feathery kind of hairs coming off 714 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: of them, and they essentially function like fishing nets. The 715 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,240 Speaker 1: barnacles wave of these cri through the water, collecting plankton 716 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: and organic detritus, and then drawing them into the shell 717 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: to bring the food to their mouths. Yeah, this image 718 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: is very delightful, and I guess it's it's it's harder 719 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: to hate on barnacles as much if you think of 720 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: them as like tiny old people who set down forever 721 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,240 Speaker 1: on you know, say, the deck of a cruise ship, 722 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,439 Speaker 1: glue their butts down, and then begin to wave their 723 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: fancily dressed legs in the air. Well. Yeah, that's right. 724 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be gluing their butts, it would be gluing 725 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: their foreheads down. So you would have to imagine the 726 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: human analogy is if you lived by gluing your forehead 727 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: to a rock and then surrounding yourself with external bone 728 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: places like you grow some bones on the outside, their 729 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: bones that live outside. You surround yourself with that. Then 730 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: you wave your feet around in the air until you 731 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: catch i don't know, something dead with your toes and 732 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: your leg hairs, and then you bring that down to 733 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: your mouth. Okay, well that sounds a little more monstrous again, 734 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: we're skewing monstrous again, but it's still delightful than Another 735 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: really amazing thing about barnacles is their sexual reproduction. Barnacles, 736 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: typically in the same individual, have both male and female 737 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: sex organs, but they can't reproduce asexually. They don't bud 738 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: like some other sessile organisms. They have to find a 739 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: partner to mate with, but they're barnacles. They are stuck 740 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: to one place, remember, glued the forehead down, so they 741 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: can't go wandering around to locate a mate. Other sessile 742 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,919 Speaker 1: organisms deal with the fact that they are immobile by 743 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: simply kind of spamming the water with sperm and eggs 744 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,919 Speaker 1: and hoping to to you know, hoping that those sex 745 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: cells meet up with opposite sex cells somewhere out there. 746 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: This is known as broadcast spawning. I've read it alleged 747 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: in many sources. The barnacles never do this, They don't 748 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: do exactly that with both sex cells, but it does 749 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,399 Speaker 1: seem some barnacles engage in sperm casting, or at least 750 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 1: the sperm but not the eggs, are released into open 751 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: water just in hopes that it will drift to an 752 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: individual with an egg cell. This is according to one 753 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: paper I found by Marion Barazande at All called Something 754 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: Darwin Didn't Know about Barnacles sperm cast Mating in a 755 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 1: common stock species, published in Proceedings of the Royal Society 756 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: b Biological Sciences in twenty thirteen. This experiment found that 757 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: Pacific intertital gooseneck barnacles do sometimes fertile fertilize eggs by 758 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: sperm casting. But this result was surprising, and the very 759 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: reason it was surprising was that for the most part, 760 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: barnacles have a different strategy. They actually physically copulate, or 761 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: as the scientists call it, pseudo copulate in order to 762 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: exchange sperm, which means they have to find a mate 763 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: by reach, which so for this reason, it has been 764 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: suggested that barnacles probably have the longest penis to body 765 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: size ratio of any animal on Earth, with penises measuring 766 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: more than the rest of the total length of the 767 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: body many times over. I've read different estimates for this. 768 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: Exactly how much longer it is seems unclear, but a 769 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: commonly cited figure is eight times body length. And these 770 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: are used kind of how you might imagine. They sense around. 771 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: They feel around at their neighbors to find a neighbor 772 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: to pseudo copulate with, and barnacles can act either as 773 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: males or females for the purposes of mating. So they 774 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: all possess these penises, and they're fascinating and remarkably adaptable organs. 775 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: Depending on environmental conditions, so like one factor is the 776 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: choppiness of the water around them, so they will grow 777 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: longer and calmer waters, but shorter and thicker and choppy 778 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: turbulent waters, because as you can imagine, long, thin appendages 779 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,760 Speaker 1: are more difficult to control when the water is moving 780 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,839 Speaker 1: around a lot. But the properties of this organ also 781 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: depend on the density of barnacle population. So when neighbors 782 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,439 Speaker 1: are nearby, they don't need to reach as far, so 783 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: they will be shorter and less elastic. But when neighbors 784 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,959 Speaker 1: are sparse, when the population is less dense, they grow 785 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: very long and elastic. Yeah. I remember a friend of 786 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: the show, Mara Hart, in her book Sex in the 787 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: Sea as the whole section talking about barnacles and their 788 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: reproductive strategies. Yeah, I remember Mara having a lot of 789 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,840 Speaker 1: barnacle penis is officially amazing. But anyway, so as filter feeders, 790 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: barnacles usually attached themselves to stationary objects in places with 791 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: a lot of activity, whether that's a rock or part 792 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: of a human built structure or something else that they 793 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: will attach themselves to a place where there's a lot 794 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: of exchange of water back and forth, because again they 795 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: can't go out hunting. They need water containing their food 796 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: to wash over them. So it's no good for a 797 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: barnacle to sit around in calm, still waters. They want 798 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: flow in exchange, location, location, location exactly. Yeah, you want 799 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 1: foot traffic. Oftentimes this means posting up in the intertidal 800 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: zone where the tides are going to charge in and 801 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: then drain out throughout the day. But if you're a 802 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: really lucky barnacle, you could manage to attach yourself to 803 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: a rock that moves, a rock that travels along its 804 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: own course, causing water full of plankton and other goodies 805 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: to wash over you constantly. And for this reason you 806 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: will see barnacles do well by attaching themselves to the 807 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: hulls of ships. This is a common problem in shipping. 808 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: But for millions of years, before there were ships, there 809 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: were whales, giant boulders that swim, and of course before 810 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: whales there were sea turtles. And I believe I was 811 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: reading that whale barnacles derived from seaturtle barnacles. That's right. 812 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 1: It is thought that whale barnacles evolved from what are 813 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: called turtle barnacles, which don't just occupy turtles. They found 814 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: them the shells of sea turtles, but also other things 815 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: like the carapace of crabs, and and on some sirenians 816 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: like like manatees and so forth. But you can you 817 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: can imagine the why this diversification takes place when whales 818 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: become a possibility. Oh, these vast expanses of high to colonize, 819 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: so many whales, especially filter feeding whales, are known to 820 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: accumulate barnacles, but gray whales really excel as barnacle hosts. 821 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: In tons of pictures of these animals again, they just uh, 822 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, you will see them covered in patches of 823 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: these things. There's one species of acorn barnacle you mentioned 824 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 1: them earlier, called Cryptolipus racy and ecti. These have been 825 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: allegedly living off of gray whales in particular for millions 826 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: of years. But looking at whale barnacles in general, I 827 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: wanted to return to this question of what is the 828 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: exact symbiotic relationship between whales and their barnacles. Are the 829 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: barnacles actual parasites causing net harm to their hosts, or 830 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: is the relationship an example of what biologists would call 831 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: commensalism where the host is not really impacted one way 832 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 1: or the other, but the barnacle gets a benefit. Or 833 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 1: is it possible there are mutualistic benefits. Do both the 834 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: whale and the barnacle get something good out of the relationship. 835 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: It seems like for a long time experts thought that 836 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,719 Speaker 1: whales and their barnacles were generally an example of a 837 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: commensal relationship. So the barnacles get a benefit, get the 838 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,240 Speaker 1: benefit of a moving substrate to bring them a steady 839 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: flow of plankton, as well as getting general protection from predators. 840 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: And you can see this reduced risk of predation when 841 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: attached to a whale body in the fact that whale 842 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: barnacles in particular have evolved to possess a less defensively 843 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: oriented outer plate structure they usually have rob If you 844 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: compare pictures of different kind of barnacles, it seems like 845 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,320 Speaker 1: whale barnacles often just have more kind of fleshy bits 846 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,879 Speaker 1: poking out of their shells at all times. They don't 847 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 1: close their plate doors completely or as completely, so they 848 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: just seem like they have to be less focused on 849 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,760 Speaker 1: defense than some of their barnacles are. This probably also 850 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,800 Speaker 1: contributes to the disturbing quality of to some to seeing 851 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 1: barnacles on whales, because it's more obviously some sort of 852 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: creature living on the whales hide and you can't just 853 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: dismiss it as seeing some sort of stone like de 854 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: try this that's built up there, right, So what's undeniable 855 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: is that the barnacles get a benefit from the relationship. 856 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,520 Speaker 1: But is it true that the relationship is basically nothing 857 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 1: to the whale, neither helpful nor harmful. Well, this seems 858 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 1: very debatable. For one thing, having barnacles on the skin 859 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: would quite clearly reduce the hydrodynamic efficiency of the whales movement. 860 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: As a point of analogy, this is not a perfect analogy, 861 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: but I was reading from the National Marine Sanctuary Foundation 862 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: about the effect of barnacles on hips built by humans, 863 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 1: and they write, quote, the US Navy estimates that heavy 864 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: barnacle growth on ships can add weight and increase drag 865 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,839 Speaker 1: by nearly sixty percent, which can lead to as much 866 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: as a forty percent increase in fuel consumption. Now, obviously 867 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,280 Speaker 1: those figures don't map exactly onto an organism like a whale, 868 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,279 Speaker 1: but the principle holds true. It seems clear that barnacles 869 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: would make a whale a less efficient swimmer, even if 870 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,720 Speaker 1: only by a marginal percent. Also, the fact that whales 871 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: have been observed to engage in behavior that looks like 872 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: an attempt to remove barnacles would probably also mean that 873 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: they are at least somewhat perceived as a nuisance by 874 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,320 Speaker 1: the whale, at least assuming those interpretations of that behavior 875 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,720 Speaker 1: is correct. Now, Robert I. Can't remember if you mentioned 876 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,800 Speaker 1: it earlier, but you had said something to me about 877 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 1: observations of whales appearing to one us scrape barnacles off 878 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,879 Speaker 1: their body, maybe by rubbing up against things, and and 879 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: maybe we don't understand exactly what the purpose of that 880 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: behavior is, but it's been interpreted as an attempt to 881 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,440 Speaker 1: remove barnacles. Yeah, yeah, that's my understanding. And they'll do 882 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: this not only on the bottoms of boats and chips, 883 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,359 Speaker 1: but they'll do this on rocks and in the sand, 884 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: and also just through the act of feeding, because again, 885 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,400 Speaker 1: these are bottom feeding feeders who scrape half of their 886 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 1: their body against the bottom of the sea. But yeah, 887 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: I guess the thing we have to keep in mind 888 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,400 Speaker 1: is that it's not just the barnacles on the body, 889 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: they're also the sea lies they're scarring. There's you know, 890 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: there's reason to believe that. I guess a whale could 891 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: itch for other reasons, or have some sort of skin 892 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 1: irritation for other reasons, and it might be pleasurable for 893 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 1: other reasons for it to scrape its body against something, 894 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,480 Speaker 1: even if that scraping does in effect remove barnacles from 895 00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,399 Speaker 1: its its skin. Yes, so there are several ways where 896 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: you might be able to interpret barnacles as parasites as 897 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,920 Speaker 1: causing net harm to the whales. However, I came across 898 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,719 Speaker 1: another idea that I thought was very interesting. Again, this 899 00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: is not certain, it's debatable, but some researchers have speculated 900 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 1: there could be cases where whale barnacles are actually providing 901 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: a benefit to the whale. Now, what could that be. 902 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine by looking at it, But what 903 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,279 Speaker 1: has been proposed is that barnacles may serve as a 904 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,879 Speaker 1: form of armor or as a weapon in some cases. Now, 905 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: what would be the evidence for this idea? Well, I 906 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: was looking at a paper by John kb Ford and 907 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: Randall R. Reeves published in The Mammal Review in two 908 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: thousand and eight called fight or Flight Anti predator strategies 909 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: of baleen whales. Now, something we've already alluded to and 910 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,879 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about more extensively in the next 911 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,840 Speaker 1: episode is orca predation on gray whales in particular. But 912 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,440 Speaker 1: orcas also known as killer whales, are major predators to 913 00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: a number of mysticetti or baleen whale speeds, and the 914 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,880 Speaker 1: authors of this paper argued that understanding the role of 915 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: orcas as predators has been hampered by poor understanding of 916 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:15,240 Speaker 1: the different predator prey dynamics quote, including the relative vulnerability 917 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: of different misdeceit species and age classes to killer whales, 918 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: and how those prey animals avoid predation. So what are 919 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: the different patterns of behavior that different prey species of 920 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: whales resort to when an orca starts threatening them or 921 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,279 Speaker 1: when a pot of orcas threatens them. The authors argue 922 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,840 Speaker 1: there are two main classes of behavioral response, and those 923 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,320 Speaker 1: are fight or flight. The flight strategy is fairly simple. 924 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 1: When you spot killer whales, you get out of there. 925 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 1: The authors describe the strategy as rapid monodirectional swimming away 926 00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,359 Speaker 1: from the orcas at a pace of between twenty and 927 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,360 Speaker 1: forty kilometers an hour, a speed that the orcas cannot 928 00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: generally keep up with or will not keep up with usually, 929 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,319 Speaker 1: and this behavior has been observed in six species of 930 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: the genus Balinoptera, which contains animals like the mink, fin 931 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,880 Speaker 1: and blue whales. On the other hand, many different species 932 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 1: exhibit what the authors call the fight strategy, which quote 933 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:23,080 Speaker 1: consists of active physical defense, including self defense by single individuals, 934 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 1: defense of calves by their mothers, and coordinated defense by 935 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,719 Speaker 1: groups of whales. It's documented for five mystic seats and 936 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,160 Speaker 1: they list the Southern right whale, the North Atlantic right whale, 937 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,080 Speaker 1: the bowhead whale, the humpback whale, and the gray whale. 938 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 1: The authors argue that these strategies are not incidental, they 939 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: are selected by evolution for each species to maximize survival odds. 940 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:52,240 Speaker 1: Based on the whales other physical characteristics. Species that engage 941 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: in the flight strategy have streamlined bodies that are capable 942 00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 1: of fast, sustained endurance swimming. They also quote tend to 943 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,720 Speaker 1: favor pelagic habitats, which that means open sea, deep water 944 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 1: and calving grounds where prolonged escape sprints from killer whales 945 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: are possible. Meanwhile, they say that whales that engage in 946 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: fight strategies tend to have more robust body shapes and 947 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,040 Speaker 1: they tend to be slower swimmers, but they're also usually 948 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,920 Speaker 1: maneuverable swimmers, so they might not be able to do 949 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,880 Speaker 1: monodirection swimming in one direction really fast for a long time, 950 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,400 Speaker 1: but they can kind of move around quickly within a 951 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: small space if they need to, say, reposition their bodies 952 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: or deliver a blow. These species also quote often calve 953 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: or migrating coastal areas where proximity to shallow water provides 954 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,759 Speaker 1: refuge and an advantage in defense. Most fight species have 955 00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:54,279 Speaker 1: either calocities, which are rough and hardened patches of skin, 956 00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: or incrustations of barnacles on their bodies, which may serve 957 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: either primarily or secondarily as weapons or armor for defense. 958 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,320 Speaker 1: So I think that's a really interesting inference here. Specifically, 959 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 1: whales that are more likely to fight predators rather than 960 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,160 Speaker 1: run from them also happen to be the ones that 961 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: are more likely to have either calocities, these raised calloused 962 00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: patches of skin, or colonies of barnacles on their skin, which, 963 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,319 Speaker 1: of course, you know, a colony of barnacles you do 964 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 1: not want to bite into that or get slapped with it. 965 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,880 Speaker 1: And the authors write that humpback whales are believed to 966 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,000 Speaker 1: make use of these barnacle encrusted patches as weapons steering 967 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 1: fights between males at breeding grounds. They say, you know, 968 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,240 Speaker 1: there are many different kind of moves that humpback whales 969 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,759 Speaker 1: will do against each other. When they're displaying aggressive behaviors 970 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,000 Speaker 1: to other males, they will do headbutting and ramming of 971 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,000 Speaker 1: each other striking blows, and they will hit each other 972 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 1: with long flippers and tail flukes, and the authors point 973 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,200 Speaker 1: out that these parts of the body where they will 974 00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,120 Speaker 1: hit each other are also parts of the body areas 975 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:11,440 Speaker 1: where there are large incrustations of barnacles usually found. They say, 976 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,279 Speaker 1: quote a blow from a barnacle encrusted surface would likely 977 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:19,080 Speaker 1: have enhanced effectiveness in aggressive physical interactions, and from this 978 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,520 Speaker 1: they go on to argue that these same types of 979 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,280 Speaker 1: attacks are probably used by humpback whales against predatory orcas, 980 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: and the barnacles probably provide an advantage in the same way. Now, 981 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: the same is maybe not exactly true of gray whales, 982 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,040 Speaker 1: because they say gray whales don't fight quite as much. 983 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: They don't show examples of intra specific aggression associated with 984 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:47,280 Speaker 1: male competition like the humpback whales do, so the males 985 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: are less often fighting each other like humpback whales. But 986 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,720 Speaker 1: they say that barnacles on the skin of gray whales 987 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 1: could still help protect the whales as basically a type 988 00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: of defensive armor. If an orca tries to ram the 989 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,040 Speaker 1: body of a gray whale and it's got an incrustation 990 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,160 Speaker 1: of barnacles on it, or they try to bite the 991 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,800 Speaker 1: gray whale, and they bite them on an incrustation of 992 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,280 Speaker 1: barnacles that seems much more likely to harm the attacking animal. 993 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 1: This is fascinating. So on on one level, yes, than 994 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,040 Speaker 1: the mating of the gray whales, well, we'll probably get 995 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,280 Speaker 1: into that more in the next episode, but yeah, there's 996 00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,160 Speaker 1: there definitely is more of a sort of a free 997 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,720 Speaker 1: love kind of vibe going on among the gray whales, 998 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,480 Speaker 1: So the males are not necessarily competing with each other, 999 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:40,560 Speaker 1: it seems and is now. But on the same level, 1000 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: I mean, the whales are going to come into contact 1001 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,560 Speaker 1: with each other, and the barnacles do scar other whales 1002 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,160 Speaker 1: sort of at least incidentally. This was pointed out to 1003 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 1: us in Mexico by one of the local guides on 1004 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,600 Speaker 1: the boats. Um because they're covered in scars from various things, 1005 00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,200 Speaker 1: everything from orca attacks to barnacle scraping them via contact 1006 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,400 Speaker 1: with other whales. And yeah, this is an interesting idea though, 1007 00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:11,360 Speaker 1: because on one level, a really good blow from a 1008 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,320 Speaker 1: fluke or a flipper from a gray whale I've read 1009 00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,480 Speaker 1: it is enough to certainly to kill a man, but 1010 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,520 Speaker 1: also could potentially kill an orca in one blow as well. 1011 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,160 Speaker 1: But I guess you're not necessarily going to get that 1012 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: killer blow every time. Sometimes you're just going to maybe 1013 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,920 Speaker 1: make a lighter contact or a near miss. And you 1014 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 1: can imagine those scenarios would be enhanced by some sort 1015 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,840 Speaker 1: of barnacle encrusting. Possibly. Now, to come back on that, 1016 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: you can imagine other reasonings as well that there might 1017 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 1: be this correlation where species that are more likely to 1018 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,360 Speaker 1: stand and fight when attacked by orcas rather than run away, 1019 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,120 Speaker 1: are also the ones more likely to be encrusted with barnacles. 1020 00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,680 Speaker 1: Maybe there is a common cause, like barnacles don't actually 1021 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 1: make useful armor or make useful weapons, but the slow 1022 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: swimming that make a gray whale have to rely on 1023 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 1: fighting rather than rapid escape also makes it more susceptible 1024 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,840 Speaker 1: to barnacle infestation. That kind of thing could be possible, 1025 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,400 Speaker 1: But I think it's an interesting correlation, and it makes 1026 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,680 Speaker 1: you wonder how you would test that further, Like could 1027 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,520 Speaker 1: you compare different individual whales of the same species and 1028 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,480 Speaker 1: look at maybe how much barnacle loading they have and 1029 01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 1: then observe their relative success. It's a protecting calves from orcapods. 1030 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Do mothers with more barnacles win more fights against orcas 1031 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,120 Speaker 1: and so forth. I mean, it's also worth noting in 1032 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,520 Speaker 1: all of this that the young gray whales again have 1033 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 1: no barnacles. They're born without barnacles. They will accumulate barnacles, 1034 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,480 Speaker 1: but it takes a little time for the hard barnacles 1035 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,880 Speaker 1: to actually build up, so especially during that period when 1036 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,960 Speaker 1: they're leaving those sheltered lagoons, this is when they're at 1037 01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: their most vulnerable for a number of reasons. However, it's 1038 01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,640 Speaker 1: all another thing the authors point out that I think 1039 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,440 Speaker 1: it's where remembering is that whales, including gray whales, are 1040 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,000 Speaker 1: not Orca's only prey, and they are an especially dangerous 1041 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,080 Speaker 1: and costly type of prey for the orcas to pursue. 1042 01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:16,080 Speaker 1: The author's right quote, the rarity of observed successful attacks 1043 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,720 Speaker 1: by killer whales on baleen whales, especially adults, maybe an 1044 01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:24,360 Speaker 1: indication of the effectiveness of these anti predator strategies. Baleen 1045 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 1: whales likely offer low profitability to killer whales relative to 1046 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 1: some other marine mammal prey. High speed pursuit of flight 1047 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: species has a high energetic cost and the low probability 1048 01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: of success, while attacks on fight species can involve prolonged 1049 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 1: handling times and a risk of serious injury. So the 1050 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 1: baleen whales here are are not helpless against these orcas, Like, 1051 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: they put up a real fight. And if the orcas 1052 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,880 Speaker 1: are going to eat a whale calf, like they will 1053 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: make them work for it. Though of course, yeah, they 1054 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,880 Speaker 1: will work for it. They are hard workers the orca. 1055 01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,360 Speaker 1: But as is often the case, we've discuss this with 1056 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,880 Speaker 1: various predator prey relationships, like it's it's every little bit 1057 01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,320 Speaker 1: of deterrent um that adds up to survival. Like anything 1058 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 1: that makes you a slightly more difficult meal than you, 1059 01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:17,320 Speaker 1: you increase the odds that the predators will realize that 1060 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,040 Speaker 1: this is not worth it. Yeah, and we'll get into 1061 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:22,440 Speaker 1: this in the next episode. I mean, that's one of 1062 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,680 Speaker 1: the reasons the lagoons are safe harbors is that is 1063 01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,000 Speaker 1: that that they have found a place to go that 1064 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:33,760 Speaker 1: do not favor the orcas. And the orcas intelligent um 1065 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,960 Speaker 1: pack or pod hunters that they are. Uh, they will 1066 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,280 Speaker 1: attack their most one of their most dangerous prey when 1067 01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: they have the the optimal advantage, when they have everything 1068 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: lining up for them. Uh, They're not gonna They're not 1069 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,120 Speaker 1: gonna do it. If they if they don't have a 1070 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 1: key advantage. So I guess more on that next time. Yeah, wait, 1071 01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,000 Speaker 1: before we close out, what do you what do you 1072 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 1: think about the barnacle armor slash weapon hypothesis. You think 1073 01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,560 Speaker 1: that's got anything going for it or not? I like it. 1074 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:07,520 Speaker 1: I certainly buy that at least partial encrusting with barnacles 1075 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 1: would perhaps provide this incidental extra level of defense or offense. 1076 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,600 Speaker 1: I just I'm not as sure how that maybe factors 1077 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: into um like the grander like evolutionary scheme of things, 1078 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, and how it balances out against I guess, 1079 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:30,600 Speaker 1: uh negative impacts from say introducing dragon swimming and other things, right, yeah, 1080 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,200 Speaker 1: or or mating behavior and so forth. But I mean, 1081 01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,440 Speaker 1: they've they've been scrapy with barnacles for a long time, 1082 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,120 Speaker 1: so they're they're accustomed to it. It is it is 1083 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,120 Speaker 1: a part of who they are, which I think is 1084 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 1: one of the big take homs for again for thinking 1085 01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,800 Speaker 1: about gray whales and their barnacles and their life and 1086 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,840 Speaker 1: their most notable predator like these these are are creatures 1087 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,960 Speaker 1: that are not only a part of their lives, but 1088 01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,560 Speaker 1: they have shaped the life of the gray whale. They've 1089 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,240 Speaker 1: shaped the gray whale is and you can't remove them 1090 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,760 Speaker 1: from the scenario. All right, Well, on that note, we're 1091 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: going to go ahead and call it for this episode. 1092 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back in the next core episode of Stuff 1093 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,160 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind to discuss gray whales in greater detail. 1094 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,160 Speaker 1: We'll talk about there there were more about the relationship 1095 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,120 Speaker 1: with the orcas. We'll talk about some of the variety 1096 01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:20,680 Speaker 1: of orcas as well. We'll kind of go in an 1097 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,840 Speaker 1: orca's tangent, and then we'll get into more details about 1098 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,440 Speaker 1: their migration and their reproduction. In the meantime, we'd love 1099 01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 1: to hear from everyone out there. Do you have experiences 1100 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,120 Speaker 1: with gray whales that you would like to share with 1101 01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,120 Speaker 1: us right in we'd love to hear them. Heck, if 1102 01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: you have any experience with whales, if you've any any 1103 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,960 Speaker 1: whale watchers out there and you want to tell us 1104 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,640 Speaker 1: about other species of whales that you're super into, let 1105 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,040 Speaker 1: us know. I'm I'm I'm all revved up on whales 1106 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,440 Speaker 1: and dolphins and porpoises right now, so I'm excited to 1107 01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,440 Speaker 1: see your photos and hear your stories. A reminder that 1108 01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,040 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science podcast 1109 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,840 Speaker 1: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we 1110 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,360 Speaker 1: do listener mail, on Wednesday's we do a short form 1111 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,760 Speaker 1: artifact or monster fact, and on Friday's we do Weird 1112 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,760 Speaker 1: House Cinema. That's our time to set aside most serious 1113 01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:09,360 Speaker 1: concerns and just talk about a weird film huch. Thanks 1114 01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,479 Speaker 1: to our audio producer J. J. Paseway. If you would 1115 01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,560 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 1116 01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,640 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for 1117 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,080 Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 1118 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:31,280 Speaker 1: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1119 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,280 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. 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