1 00:00:15,370 --> 00:00:23,170 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Tim Harford Here this week, Cautionary Tales hands the 2 00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:28,130 Speaker 1: microphone to Brian Brushwood, host of World's Greatest Con, a 3 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:31,970 Speaker 1: show about the most audacious con jobs, swindles, and heists 4 00:00:32,090 --> 00:00:35,930 Speaker 1: in history. The events you'll hear about our a quintessential 5 00:00:36,010 --> 00:00:39,450 Speaker 1: cautionary tale, a story of how a game show producer 6 00:00:39,890 --> 00:00:43,730 Speaker 1: was tempted into upping the ante on his own program 7 00:00:43,810 --> 00:00:50,770 Speaker 1: by feeding answers to the contestants. Those contestants become stars, rich, famous, admired, 8 00:00:51,410 --> 00:00:55,650 Speaker 1: and then the scheme is discovered and all they're left 9 00:00:55,690 --> 00:01:00,770 Speaker 1: with is shame. I love World's Greatest Con, both this 10 00:01:00,850 --> 00:01:04,170 Speaker 1: second season, which is all about frauds and cons perpetrated 11 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:07,490 Speaker 1: on or by TV quiz shows such as Who Wants 12 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:10,250 Speaker 1: to Be a Millionaire, The Price Is Right, Press Your 13 00:01:10,330 --> 00:01:13,330 Speaker 1: Luck and more, and the first season, which was about 14 00:01:13,450 --> 00:01:19,210 Speaker 1: an astonishing attempt to con Adolphe Hitler himself. It's packed 15 00:01:19,210 --> 00:01:23,090 Speaker 1: with the storytelling, the human psychology and the salutary lessons 16 00:01:23,170 --> 00:01:27,570 Speaker 1: you expect from Cautionary Tales. If you're not already a subscriber, 17 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:30,130 Speaker 1: take a moment to subscribe now and you can thank 18 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:33,930 Speaker 1: me later. Brian Brushwood, the host of World's Greatest Con 19 00:01:34,290 --> 00:01:38,290 Speaker 1: also hosts TV shows on Discovery and National Geographic, is 20 00:01:38,290 --> 00:01:42,130 Speaker 1: an international lecturer on scams and is an absolute pleasure 21 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:44,530 Speaker 1: to listen to. And I'll be back at the Helm 22 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:47,730 Speaker 1: of Cautionary Tales this time next week with a new 23 00:01:47,850 --> 00:01:51,530 Speaker 1: story of human error. But until then, over to Brian 24 00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:56,650 Speaker 1: Brushwood and World's Greatest Con. This is World's Greatest Car. 25 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:03,930 Speaker 1: I'm Brian Brushwood. All right, It's nineteen fifty seven and 26 00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:08,930 Speaker 1: two hundred people are getting pulled into a grand jury. 27 00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:11,570 Speaker 1: They're all told the same thing. Tell the truth, you'll 28 00:02:11,610 --> 00:02:14,650 Speaker 1: be on your way. But if you lie, you are 29 00:02:14,770 --> 00:02:19,690 Speaker 1: going to be indicted on federal perjury charges. And these 30 00:02:19,730 --> 00:02:25,730 Speaker 1: people aren't just anyone. We're talking about lawyers, professors, active military, 31 00:02:25,890 --> 00:02:32,170 Speaker 1: respected individuals, people with a lot to lose if their 32 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:39,730 Speaker 1: reputations are tarnished. And fascinatingly, one by one, these individuals 33 00:02:39,810 --> 00:02:46,850 Speaker 1: go to the grand jury and the overwhelming majority lie. 34 00:02:47,370 --> 00:02:52,010 Speaker 1: They commit federal perjury. I mean, maybe it's some money, 35 00:02:52,090 --> 00:02:54,850 Speaker 1: right Monday, it's got to be involved somewhere. Would they 36 00:02:54,890 --> 00:02:59,290 Speaker 1: lie for the money. Maybe it's a grand conspiracy. They're 37 00:02:59,330 --> 00:03:03,690 Speaker 1: all in. If one person cracks, everything comes down occult. 38 00:03:04,730 --> 00:03:06,970 Speaker 1: I mean hell, that'd make more sense than the truth, 39 00:03:08,610 --> 00:03:12,210 Speaker 1: because the truth is the real reason is something elemental 40 00:03:12,330 --> 00:03:16,130 Speaker 1: in every single one of us, something hardwired into our brains. 41 00:03:16,970 --> 00:03:20,570 Speaker 1: All of us have a relationship with this, and it's 42 00:03:20,610 --> 00:03:25,290 Speaker 1: a con man's job to exploit it. I'm going to 43 00:03:25,370 --> 00:03:31,570 Speaker 1: tell you an epic story about fame and shame, about 44 00:03:31,570 --> 00:03:34,010 Speaker 1: how our desire for one and the fear of the 45 00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:40,330 Speaker 1: other can eradicate your morals, reduce you to a pawn 46 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:45,450 Speaker 1: on somebody else's chessboard. But before we get to the 47 00:03:45,530 --> 00:03:50,490 Speaker 1: heavy stuff, let's understand this phenomenon in a safer sandbox, 48 00:03:50,570 --> 00:03:55,290 Speaker 1: a realm without any victims. Okay, this will be a 49 00:03:55,330 --> 00:03:59,450 Speaker 1: weird segue, but have you ever been due a stage 50 00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:05,050 Speaker 1: hypnotist show. Sometimes these shows are like a Christmas event 51 00:04:05,130 --> 00:04:08,130 Speaker 1: for our corporation. Sometimes you'll buy a ticket on the 52 00:04:08,130 --> 00:04:10,890 Speaker 1: strip in Las Vega. Guess I always see them at 53 00:04:10,930 --> 00:04:14,290 Speaker 1: these college freshman orientations, you know, those big events they 54 00:04:14,330 --> 00:04:16,090 Speaker 1: do in the first one or two days when you 55 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:18,930 Speaker 1: come to campus, when they want you to bond together 56 00:04:19,090 --> 00:04:25,410 Speaker 1: as a cohort and have shared experience. It's the perfect 57 00:04:25,530 --> 00:04:31,850 Speaker 1: activity to get people to reveal stuff about themselves. In fact, 58 00:04:31,930 --> 00:04:35,930 Speaker 1: put yourself back there. You don't know anybody, You don't 59 00:04:35,970 --> 00:04:38,770 Speaker 1: know how any of this is going to go, but 60 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:41,770 Speaker 1: you do know that you want to fit in. There's 61 00:04:41,810 --> 00:04:47,210 Speaker 1: a thousand other people in this pact charged auditorium. You're excited, 62 00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:49,850 Speaker 1: they're excited. You want to know them, they want to 63 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:55,770 Speaker 1: know you. How walks a guy, an authoritative suit who 64 00:04:55,850 --> 00:05:00,490 Speaker 1: explains to you that only one type of person can 65 00:05:00,530 --> 00:05:06,090 Speaker 1: be hypnotized. Smart person, somebody smart enough to exactly follow 66 00:05:06,210 --> 00:05:10,450 Speaker 1: directions on Q and no, you won't lose free will, 67 00:05:11,690 --> 00:05:15,250 Speaker 1: but yes, you will experience something that you will remember 68 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:18,730 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. And then comes the 69 00:05:18,770 --> 00:05:24,410 Speaker 1: first part of how stage hypnosis works. He asks who 70 00:05:24,970 --> 00:05:31,090 Speaker 1: here in this room would like to be hypnotized. This 71 00:05:31,210 --> 00:05:33,530 Speaker 1: feels like a very small moment. It's not. It's the 72 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:36,690 Speaker 1: most important moment. The reason it's the most important moment 73 00:05:36,890 --> 00:05:42,010 Speaker 1: is because you are self selecting or compliance. You are 74 00:05:42,570 --> 00:05:47,010 Speaker 1: entering a contract. You are saying I am ready to play? 75 00:05:47,330 --> 00:05:50,130 Speaker 1: Are you? And forty five other freshmen go running up 76 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:53,450 Speaker 1: to the stage. Y'all get in a line. And what 77 00:05:53,530 --> 00:05:58,170 Speaker 1: happens first is a very small ask. The stage hypnotist says, 78 00:05:58,250 --> 00:06:02,450 Speaker 1: I want you to imagine you're getting very very hot. 79 00:06:03,010 --> 00:06:05,730 Speaker 1: Oh what must that be like to be very very hot? 80 00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:08,770 Speaker 1: And of course you are hot. You're under a bunch 81 00:06:08,770 --> 00:06:12,570 Speaker 1: of lamps, you're on stage, you're next to all these 82 00:06:12,570 --> 00:06:15,650 Speaker 1: other sweaty bodies. You just ran a hundred meters to 83 00:06:15,650 --> 00:06:18,770 Speaker 1: get up here. After a few minutes of this, a 84 00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:22,930 Speaker 1: language changes just a little bit. Now he just says, 85 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:26,890 Speaker 1: now you're getting cooler. But you know what he's talking about, right, 86 00:06:27,250 --> 00:06:29,170 Speaker 1: or it was hot, Now I'm getting cooler. Of course. 87 00:06:29,170 --> 00:06:32,490 Speaker 1: Of course, also by the way, you are actually getting cooler. 88 00:06:32,770 --> 00:06:34,490 Speaker 1: You worked up a sweat while you were up there 89 00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:37,810 Speaker 1: on stage. Now all that sweat is starting to evaporate. 90 00:06:37,850 --> 00:06:40,850 Speaker 1: You're getting cooler. So you begin to shake and shiver, 91 00:06:41,450 --> 00:06:46,890 Speaker 1: cover yourself, and all the while he's quietly eliminating people. 92 00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:52,050 Speaker 1: He doesn't say elimination. What he says is if I 93 00:06:52,090 --> 00:06:54,650 Speaker 1: tap you on the shoulder, it just didn't work out. 94 00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:58,650 Speaker 1: It's not really a punishment. But you know what you want, 95 00:06:59,330 --> 00:07:01,170 Speaker 1: You know, you want to stay up there on stage. 96 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:07,450 Speaker 1: You want to keep going. We hear directives and sleep, 97 00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:11,130 Speaker 1: and we know while we're out there on stage what 98 00:07:11,130 --> 00:07:14,570 Speaker 1: he means is act as though you just went into 99 00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:18,930 Speaker 1: a slumber. Let your thoughts and you begin to watch 100 00:07:19,690 --> 00:07:24,170 Speaker 1: as stranger and stranger things happen around you, always happening 101 00:07:24,170 --> 00:07:27,930 Speaker 1: to other people. Nothing amazing is about to happen person 102 00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:30,650 Speaker 1: I'm touching right now, Only the person I'm touching right now. 103 00:07:30,930 --> 00:07:33,530 Speaker 1: In a moment, I'm going to ask you a question, 104 00:07:33,530 --> 00:07:36,290 Speaker 1: and when I do, you will be unable to remember 105 00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:40,090 Speaker 1: the number seven. And when he asks you to add 106 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:43,970 Speaker 1: together or in four you say eight, It's like great, 107 00:07:44,130 --> 00:07:47,250 Speaker 1: so you must have eight fingers pointed up. Go ahead 108 00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:53,450 Speaker 1: and count them one, two, three, four, five, six? What 109 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:56,570 Speaker 1: else are you going to do? In Meanwhile, the audience 110 00:07:56,730 --> 00:08:00,330 Speaker 1: is loving it a laughter the applause. I mean you 111 00:08:00,530 --> 00:08:04,130 Speaker 1: think of yourself as an introvert. You've never experienced anything 112 00:08:04,210 --> 00:08:08,050 Speaker 1: like this. Right now, the attention is on you, and 113 00:08:08,170 --> 00:08:11,570 Speaker 1: you are in full on flow state melts. All of 114 00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:15,090 Speaker 1: these decisions about whether you're playing along or just following instructions, 115 00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:22,610 Speaker 1: they all get blended together. Choices become instinctual. The age 116 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:27,010 Speaker 1: of eighteen, a freshman at college, you've probably never experienced 117 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:30,490 Speaker 1: anything like this before. All you know is that it 118 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:35,010 Speaker 1: feels awesome. And when this dude tells you something to do, 119 00:08:35,330 --> 00:08:39,370 Speaker 1: you do it. Everybody claps and you feel great, and 120 00:08:39,410 --> 00:08:46,850 Speaker 1: then forty minutes into the performance, he says to you 121 00:08:46,930 --> 00:08:56,010 Speaker 1: out loud, you are Britney Spears, and you have a 122 00:08:56,090 --> 00:09:01,850 Speaker 1: choice because the hypnotist didn't lie. You do have free will. 123 00:09:02,370 --> 00:09:05,410 Speaker 1: You could do anything you want at any moment. But 124 00:09:05,530 --> 00:09:10,130 Speaker 1: you also know that of any two options, you want 125 00:09:10,130 --> 00:09:14,850 Speaker 1: the one that's less painful, and in that moment, it 126 00:09:14,930 --> 00:09:19,370 Speaker 1: would be more painful to stop the show, to say, 127 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:23,730 Speaker 1: this has been a wild ride, but I'm afraid I'm 128 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:26,370 Speaker 1: outside of my comfort zone. I'm just going to head 129 00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:30,130 Speaker 1: on down back to my seat. What's less painful is 130 00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:43,970 Speaker 1: that you are Britney Spears. Every sexy bumping, you grind, 131 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:46,930 Speaker 1: touching your body in a ways that you wouldn't even 132 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:51,370 Speaker 1: do a load in the bathroom, Everybody cheering, screaming, It's 133 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:56,410 Speaker 1: an ecstasy of improvisation that you've never experienced her entire lives. 134 00:09:56,690 --> 00:10:01,050 Speaker 1: Good God, the whole world stopped and shown a spotlight 135 00:10:01,490 --> 00:10:07,570 Speaker 1: on you. It's calorie free fame. There's no way you 136 00:10:07,570 --> 00:10:10,610 Speaker 1: can lose. You'll be reward or if you're dancing is good, 137 00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:15,450 Speaker 1: you'll be blameless if it's bad. The reliability of these 138 00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:19,370 Speaker 1: reactions to fame and shame. That's what allows stage hypnotists 139 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:23,330 Speaker 1: to make a living doing this. Yes, hypnosis is a 140 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:28,330 Speaker 1: real phenomenon, but stage hypnosis is a different animal. And 141 00:10:28,530 --> 00:10:31,930 Speaker 1: everybody on that stage we're acting the way that they 142 00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:37,130 Speaker 1: did for fame. The folks that stayed up there the 143 00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:41,010 Speaker 1: longest did so out of fear that they would be 144 00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:46,850 Speaker 1: eliminated and the shame that would come from that. Last 145 00:10:46,850 --> 00:10:51,090 Speaker 1: season we explained how common conmand tactics were used to 146 00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:55,610 Speaker 1: defeat Hitler, of all people, by the twenty Committee. So 147 00:10:55,730 --> 00:10:59,650 Speaker 1: this season will do one better. The biggest scandal in 148 00:10:59,770 --> 00:11:06,490 Speaker 1: television history the downfall of the TV quiz Show twenty one. 149 00:11:07,690 --> 00:11:10,970 Speaker 1: Twenty one is so popular that a winning contestant is 150 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:15,490 Speaker 1: an instant celebrity. Overnight, they're a household name, and along 151 00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:18,330 Speaker 1: with that comes money, money that you can use for 152 00:11:18,410 --> 00:11:24,210 Speaker 1: yourself and your loved ones. But as it broadcasts, what 153 00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:27,370 Speaker 1: tens of millions of viewers at home don't know is 154 00:11:27,410 --> 00:11:30,010 Speaker 1: that most of the winners are in the process of 155 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:34,650 Speaker 1: making a deal with the devil. Each of them are 156 00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:38,090 Speaker 1: crossing an ethical line that will eventually eradicate their reputation 157 00:11:38,970 --> 00:11:42,650 Speaker 1: long after the fame and the money are gone all 158 00:11:42,730 --> 00:11:46,290 Speaker 1: in the service of producers who are playing a much 159 00:11:46,330 --> 00:11:49,210 Speaker 1: more high stakes game. If you were told you were 160 00:11:49,210 --> 00:11:52,010 Speaker 1: about to make more money in one night, then you'd 161 00:11:52,010 --> 00:11:55,210 Speaker 1: make it an entire year. That everyone am your block 162 00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:57,850 Speaker 1: would hail you as a hero, that you could have 163 00:11:57,890 --> 00:12:00,730 Speaker 1: a future in television. All you had to do was 164 00:12:00,810 --> 00:12:04,290 Speaker 1: step in line and play along. All you had to 165 00:12:04,330 --> 00:12:09,810 Speaker 1: do was cheat. What would you do? Don't say it 166 00:12:09,850 --> 00:12:14,490 Speaker 1: out loud just yet. First put yourself in a soundproof 167 00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:22,130 Speaker 1: booth on live national television with fifty million people watching, 168 00:12:22,450 --> 00:12:26,050 Speaker 1: and answer this, how many points would you like to 169 00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:32,370 Speaker 1: play for? Cons don't fool us because we're stupid. They 170 00:12:32,450 --> 00:12:39,010 Speaker 1: fool us because we're human. And this might be the 171 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:49,090 Speaker 1: world's greatest con. You're listening to world's greatest cone on 172 00:12:49,290 --> 00:13:09,090 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales. Before we get to twenty one, you gotta talk. 173 00:13:09,130 --> 00:13:13,050 Speaker 1: Come out the show that it's desperately trying to take down. Yes, 174 00:13:13,370 --> 00:13:17,850 Speaker 1: the sixty four thousand dollars question, and now the star 175 00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:20,930 Speaker 1: of our show where knowledge is king and the reward 176 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:28,330 Speaker 1: king size how march? All right, let's start here. Television 177 00:13:28,730 --> 00:13:32,090 Speaker 1: is a killer be killed business. Everybody's got an idea, 178 00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:34,330 Speaker 1: and most people could pull it off if they're surrounded 179 00:13:34,370 --> 00:13:39,450 Speaker 1: with right talent. But even at its earliest moments, television 180 00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:43,930 Speaker 1: is about getting those eyeballs a connection to the viewer. 181 00:13:44,650 --> 00:13:47,770 Speaker 1: There's no denying that nineteen fifty six, the viewer is 182 00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:52,370 Speaker 1: connecting with the sixty four thousand dollar question. It is 183 00:13:52,370 --> 00:13:58,130 Speaker 1: the first major hit game show on TV. And yes, 184 00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:01,010 Speaker 1: the game show format has been around since radio, but 185 00:14:01,090 --> 00:14:03,850 Speaker 1: now you could actually see the contestants. You could see 186 00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:06,290 Speaker 1: what they looked like, how they fidgeted under the pressure 187 00:14:06,730 --> 00:14:13,090 Speaker 1: or rocked it confidently straight through the answers. Also, remember 188 00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:16,810 Speaker 1: where we are. This is the nineteen fifties. Boys have 189 00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:19,330 Speaker 1: come home from World War Two. More of them came 190 00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:23,130 Speaker 1: home from Korea. Prosperity is the name of the game. 191 00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:26,690 Speaker 1: Everybody's home and they want to make an empire for themselves. 192 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:30,930 Speaker 1: Cement is being poured on the suburbs that would go 193 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:34,450 Speaker 1: on to define American culture for the next seventy years 194 00:14:34,450 --> 00:14:39,530 Speaker 1: in counting, and the game show embodies all of that. 195 00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:43,930 Speaker 1: Average people who want to make good, testing their own knowledge, 196 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:50,290 Speaker 1: winning big money, big prizes. Remember Grandma's couch one that 197 00:14:50,370 --> 00:14:53,250 Speaker 1: had the plastic cover all over it. There was a 198 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:56,530 Speaker 1: day that couch was brand new. Let's go back to 199 00:14:56,610 --> 00:15:00,730 Speaker 1: that day and let's sit on that couch and let's 200 00:15:00,770 --> 00:15:04,450 Speaker 1: turn on the TV and watch the sixty four thousand 201 00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:09,810 Speaker 1: dollars question. Honored client for the sixty dollar question psychologist 202 00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:13,850 Speaker 1: from New York City whose category is boxing, Doctor Joyce Trouters. 203 00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:21,410 Speaker 1: Finally what man later famous in the boxing world? Referee 204 00:15:21,450 --> 00:15:24,730 Speaker 1: the comeback attempt of the next Champ against Jack Johnson 205 00:15:24,770 --> 00:15:33,290 Speaker 1: at Reno Nevada. Text, Rickard, you're a right man? How 206 00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:36,290 Speaker 1: fifties is this? First? Off? Yes, that is the doctor 207 00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:38,250 Speaker 1: Joyce Brothers that you know and love. This is how 208 00:15:38,290 --> 00:15:42,050 Speaker 1: she got famous. But one of the first big winners 209 00:15:42,050 --> 00:15:45,850 Speaker 1: on sixty four thousand dollars question is Katherine Kreiser, in 210 00:15:45,890 --> 00:15:49,010 Speaker 1: which she answers a series of questions about Bible verses. 211 00:15:50,290 --> 00:15:54,290 Speaker 1: Here's what's important about Katherine see sixty four thousand dollars 212 00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:56,370 Speaker 1: question was kind of like who wants to be a millionaire. 213 00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:59,530 Speaker 1: You have to answer a series of questions leading up 214 00:15:59,570 --> 00:16:02,290 Speaker 1: to the big prize, and every win you get you 215 00:16:02,370 --> 00:16:05,730 Speaker 1: have a chance to walk away. Katherine hits that moment. 216 00:16:05,890 --> 00:16:08,450 Speaker 1: She has a chance to be the first sixty four 217 00:16:08,490 --> 00:16:13,450 Speaker 1: thousand dollar winner by answering one question, but she doesn't. 218 00:16:14,850 --> 00:16:18,890 Speaker 1: Given the opportunity to walk with thirty four thousand or 219 00:16:19,010 --> 00:16:23,810 Speaker 1: risk everything, she takes the money. This is a really 220 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:26,290 Speaker 1: crucial part of the story and really of every con 221 00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:32,730 Speaker 1: Always value the money you have. It's your money. That's 222 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:35,250 Speaker 1: why you've got to be careful to not covet the 223 00:16:35,330 --> 00:16:39,410 Speaker 1: money you don't yet have. Sixty four thousand dollars question 224 00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:42,730 Speaker 1: is on CBS. A few clicks down the dial, NBC 225 00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:47,970 Speaker 1: is getting covetous of those ratings. They try to buy 226 00:16:48,010 --> 00:16:51,650 Speaker 1: the sixty four thousand dollars question. They fail. They look 227 00:16:51,690 --> 00:17:01,130 Speaker 1: to make their own. Enter Dan and Write. Dan and 228 00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:05,010 Speaker 1: Wright was born in nineteen seventeen, grew up in British 229 00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:09,650 Speaker 1: Palestine in New York City, and Right was a revolutionary mind. 230 00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:12,570 Speaker 1: And we're not just talking game shows. It's all kinds 231 00:17:12,570 --> 00:17:16,170 Speaker 1: of audience participation shows. Shows where somebody from the audience 232 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:19,530 Speaker 1: tells an interesting story and boom, they're reunited with their 233 00:17:19,570 --> 00:17:22,930 Speaker 1: long lost sister. Other ones where somebody is down on 234 00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:25,970 Speaker 1: their luck and they get a new car. It's part produced, 235 00:17:26,010 --> 00:17:30,210 Speaker 1: it's part improv In nineteen forty seven, n Right meets 236 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:32,650 Speaker 1: the man that would become his creative partner for the 237 00:17:32,730 --> 00:17:37,530 Speaker 1: rest of his life, stand up comic Jack Barry. Together 238 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:40,850 Speaker 1: they pitch and produce TV game shows, often ones that 239 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:44,610 Speaker 1: use Barry as the MC. In nineteen fifty six, they 240 00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:48,130 Speaker 1: come up with twenty one. The one questions are super easy. 241 00:17:48,170 --> 00:17:51,370 Speaker 1: The eleven questions are often multiple parts and really really hard. 242 00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:55,570 Speaker 1: It's essentially like Blackjack. Whoever hits twenty one first wins. 243 00:17:56,210 --> 00:18:00,090 Speaker 1: NBC likes it enough to shoot a practice round perfect. 244 00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:05,010 Speaker 1: They're in the game. Oh yeah, twenty one. It has 245 00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:08,610 Speaker 1: one major advantage over the sixty four thousand dollar question. 246 00:18:09,290 --> 00:18:12,770 Speaker 1: See sixty four is massive, and the contestants that make 247 00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:16,570 Speaker 1: it far they become huge stars old Bible quote and 248 00:18:16,690 --> 00:18:21,170 Speaker 1: Catherine became a downright celebrity. But if you did the 249 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:25,730 Speaker 1: best you could on sixty four, it only lasted four weeks. 250 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:33,290 Speaker 1: All that hype for a month of ratings. Two twenty one. 251 00:18:33,850 --> 00:18:35,810 Speaker 1: Twenty one is set up so a winner could go 252 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:40,050 Speaker 1: on forever, just keep winning and winning. Could you imagine 253 00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:45,090 Speaker 1: the publicity, imagine the attention. This is brilliant. En Right 254 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:52,930 Speaker 1: sets up the first test game and it sucks. It 255 00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:57,490 Speaker 1: is super boring. And here's why. According to Enright, either 256 00:18:57,610 --> 00:19:00,730 Speaker 1: contestant could answer enough of the questions to make twenty one. 257 00:19:01,290 --> 00:19:04,570 Speaker 1: One of the advantages of sixty four thousand is that 258 00:19:04,570 --> 00:19:07,570 Speaker 1: the contestants got to pick one topic that they're an 259 00:19:07,570 --> 00:19:12,610 Speaker 1: expert in to answer increasingly difficult questions. Twenty one changes 260 00:19:12,650 --> 00:19:16,890 Speaker 1: the topic every question, so you have to find real savants, 261 00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:22,290 Speaker 1: people who are super well rounded about everything. What Right 262 00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:24,770 Speaker 1: may or may not know is that sixty four thousand 263 00:19:24,850 --> 00:19:29,490 Speaker 1: also tries to make sure their contestants succeed. For example, 264 00:19:29,610 --> 00:19:32,730 Speaker 1: to the home audience, the category is just opera, but 265 00:19:32,810 --> 00:19:35,210 Speaker 1: the producers know that this guy is really an expert 266 00:19:35,250 --> 00:19:38,730 Speaker 1: only in Italian opera, so all of his questions are 267 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:44,530 Speaker 1: only about Italian opera, No Russian opera, no French opera. 268 00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:46,730 Speaker 1: So how are you going to get random people to 269 00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:50,650 Speaker 1: push past a single round, let alone so many rounds 270 00:19:50,690 --> 00:20:00,490 Speaker 1: they become huge stars? I mean could gee? Let's pause 271 00:20:00,610 --> 00:20:05,530 Speaker 1: here to consider the ethics of what's about to happen. Yes, 272 00:20:05,610 --> 00:20:08,930 Speaker 1: twenty one is a TV show. Most TV shows are faked. Yes, 273 00:20:09,290 --> 00:20:13,130 Speaker 1: sixty four thousand dollar question is shaped to help contestants, 274 00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:17,650 Speaker 1: but they don't get the questions beforehand. What end Right 275 00:20:18,410 --> 00:20:23,690 Speaker 1: is considering is to give the questions categories and the 276 00:20:23,770 --> 00:20:28,210 Speaker 1: answers to a contestant beforehand. I mean, what's the harm? 277 00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:33,130 Speaker 1: Contestants get money, he gets ratings. En Wright finds out 278 00:20:33,210 --> 00:20:36,410 Speaker 1: real quick with his first big winner. He feels a 279 00:20:36,410 --> 00:20:38,890 Speaker 1: little bit awkward coming out and asking a man to cheat, 280 00:20:39,170 --> 00:20:41,450 Speaker 1: So Enright does something clever. He gives a pre show 281 00:20:41,530 --> 00:20:43,890 Speaker 1: quiz to the guy, just to loosen his nerves a bit. 282 00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:48,050 Speaker 1: It's only after he's in the booth on live television 283 00:20:48,490 --> 00:20:53,010 Speaker 1: that the contestant realizes the practice questions that he already 284 00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:57,290 Speaker 1: got are in reality, the same questions being asked for 285 00:20:57,690 --> 00:21:03,570 Speaker 1: keeps live on TV. But what do you do? It's 286 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:09,410 Speaker 1: money right? Wrong? This contestant felt betrayed and made a 287 00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:13,570 Speaker 1: fool of. He's worried about his reputation being branded as 288 00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:17,370 Speaker 1: a cheater. He goes to Enright and demands to give 289 00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:21,210 Speaker 1: the money back. Finally, Enright convinces him to keep it. 290 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:25,890 Speaker 1: Just gracefully bow out what do we say? Can't con 291 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:30,930 Speaker 1: and honest John? In another world this would have been 292 00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:34,370 Speaker 1: a wake up call. In an alternate reality, Enwright would 293 00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:36,930 Speaker 1: realize from the reaction of the first winner that a 294 00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:41,370 Speaker 1: man's reputation means a lot more than thousands of dollars. 295 00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:46,730 Speaker 1: Maybe the contestants shouldn't be treated just like props. Maybe 296 00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:51,370 Speaker 1: we could make the questions easier or find another way. Yeah, 297 00:21:51,490 --> 00:21:55,450 Speaker 1: now we're rolling, despite the contestants moral panic. Look, the 298 00:21:55,530 --> 00:21:58,890 Speaker 1: plan worked. The only mistake is that he surprised the 299 00:21:58,930 --> 00:22:01,410 Speaker 1: guy after the fact. He's got to be up front. 300 00:22:02,290 --> 00:22:06,450 Speaker 1: En Right needs somebody willing to take the money for nothing. 301 00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:15,530 Speaker 1: En Right has to find a mark. Meet Herb Stemple. 302 00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:19,170 Speaker 1: Herb's a studious guy who grew up in depression era 303 00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:21,690 Speaker 1: in New York. His father died at a young age. 304 00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:24,290 Speaker 1: His mother moved the family to a poor area of 305 00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:27,890 Speaker 1: the Bronx, and, like most able bodied young men, he 306 00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:31,330 Speaker 1: enlisted shipped off to Europe in the Army. After getting 307 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:34,450 Speaker 1: back home from the war, he filtered through office posts 308 00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:37,250 Speaker 1: in the army, eventually ended up taking a job as 309 00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:39,450 Speaker 1: a postal clerk in the Big Apple. That's where he 310 00:22:39,490 --> 00:22:44,250 Speaker 1: got married, settled down and baby, and legitimately. Herb has 311 00:22:44,290 --> 00:22:46,810 Speaker 1: an insane memory. As a kid, he did this radio 312 00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:52,450 Speaker 1: quiz show. He remained undefeated for weeks. Picture Herb watching 313 00:22:52,530 --> 00:22:58,210 Speaker 1: twenty one saying to himself, these questions are easy. He 314 00:22:58,330 --> 00:23:01,850 Speaker 1: writes to the producer Dan Enwright takes a sample quiz where, 315 00:23:01,890 --> 00:23:05,610 Speaker 1: according to Stemple, he gets two hundred and fifty one 316 00:23:05,610 --> 00:23:08,930 Speaker 1: of the three hundred and sixty three questions exactly right. 317 00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:15,530 Speaker 1: When Enwright sees Stemple, he sees a story a new 318 00:23:15,570 --> 00:23:18,970 Speaker 1: father working his way through community college, a gi This 319 00:23:19,090 --> 00:23:24,210 Speaker 1: is America. Enwright invites Stemple to come to his office 320 00:23:24,210 --> 00:23:26,690 Speaker 1: for a meeting. Stemple can't do it because he has 321 00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,970 Speaker 1: to babysit his kid. So en Wright comes to him. 322 00:23:31,050 --> 00:23:34,130 Speaker 1: There could be no surprises anymore. So en Wright comes 323 00:23:34,210 --> 00:23:38,170 Speaker 1: right out and says, would you like to make twenty 324 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:43,330 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars? Stemple is taken aback, but he knows 325 00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:46,250 Speaker 1: the score. In my mind, he's thinking like, oooh, twenty 326 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:48,210 Speaker 1: five is a lot of money. Looks over at his 327 00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:51,130 Speaker 1: kid playing with his toy trucks on the floor. You 328 00:23:51,170 --> 00:23:53,490 Speaker 1: mean twenty five? And I don't even have to steal anything. 329 00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:56,290 Speaker 1: Like if the owner of the bank was trying to 330 00:23:56,370 --> 00:23:58,570 Speaker 1: give me money just to prove that rich people do 331 00:23:58,650 --> 00:24:05,850 Speaker 1: business there, I mean, everybody wins. Right. That's where Enwright 332 00:24:06,050 --> 00:24:09,370 Speaker 1: has him. We're going to find out there's a lot 333 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:11,570 Speaker 1: more than money involved in a deal like this, and 334 00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:15,490 Speaker 1: Stemple specifically is going to fight tooth and nail for 335 00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:20,290 Speaker 1: it from the Bronx to the halls of Congress. But 336 00:24:20,410 --> 00:24:24,650 Speaker 1: for now, the done deal. What if five K I'll 337 00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:33,250 Speaker 1: do what you say? That's my motto this time and 338 00:24:33,450 --> 00:24:37,290 Speaker 1: Right has a partner, so he's stage manages Stemple way 339 00:24:37,330 --> 00:24:40,050 Speaker 1: more than the first guy. He gives him every point 340 00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:42,770 Speaker 1: value he's going to ask for every question he's going 341 00:24:42,850 --> 00:24:46,090 Speaker 1: to get, every answer he's going to say, right or wrong. 342 00:24:46,810 --> 00:24:48,650 Speaker 1: He picks out a suit for Stemple to make him 343 00:24:48,650 --> 00:24:51,890 Speaker 1: look frumpy, and to where the loudest watch he owns 344 00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:57,450 Speaker 1: to heighten the tension. What do we say? All the 345 00:24:57,530 --> 00:25:03,250 Speaker 1: effort into that first impression the tableau In the first 346 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:07,970 Speaker 1: four minutes of the program, Stemple wins nine thousand dollars 347 00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:10,890 Speaker 1: more money in a lump some that he has ever 348 00:25:10,930 --> 00:25:14,810 Speaker 1: seen in his entire life. Stempele's take it a big 349 00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:19,210 Speaker 1: old bat bite, that forbidden fruit. He's all in on 350 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:21,930 Speaker 1: the belief that this is easy money, and he is 351 00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:24,770 Speaker 1: willing to bend the rules and conceal the truth from 352 00:25:24,810 --> 00:25:28,770 Speaker 1: his friends, his family, the rest of the world. That 353 00:25:29,050 --> 00:25:33,730 Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars, that's just the beginning. Stemple would eventually 354 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:38,850 Speaker 1: rack up nearly seventy thousand dollars in winnings nineteen fifties dollars, 355 00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:43,210 Speaker 1: and he's got the chance to turn it into one 356 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:50,530 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, I mean sort of. See Enright loves 357 00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:54,250 Speaker 1: having a return winner, and the press loves having a 358 00:25:54,330 --> 00:25:59,130 Speaker 1: return winner. So Stemple becomes a minor New York celebrity. 359 00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:02,090 Speaker 1: But there's one part of a returning champion. The Enright 360 00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:07,570 Speaker 1: needs to, let's say, make some adjustments for the money. 361 00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:11,450 Speaker 1: See the sponsor of twenty one Pharmaceuticals, Inc. And their 362 00:26:11,530 --> 00:26:15,970 Speaker 1: product Jaritoal. They furnished the show with a limited prize budget. 363 00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:18,650 Speaker 1: If the total prize money for those twenty six weeks 364 00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:22,050 Speaker 1: is less than the money allotted, then it gets refunded 365 00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:26,370 Speaker 1: to the sponsor. But if it's over that number, well 366 00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:30,290 Speaker 1: that comes out of Barry and Enright productions. That means 367 00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:33,010 Speaker 1: the show has to live within its means. And since 368 00:26:33,050 --> 00:26:34,970 Speaker 1: Stemple was on his way to getting a big old 369 00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:40,530 Speaker 1: bat paycheck, that payout simply wasn't feasible. And here is 370 00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:45,010 Speaker 1: where the deal with the Devil comes due. First, en 371 00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:50,890 Speaker 1: Right places in front of Stemple an agreement. It's retroactive 372 00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:53,210 Speaker 1: to the very first appearance the Stemple made Out twenty 373 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:57,850 Speaker 1: one that ninth that he won nine thousand dollars. In 374 00:26:58,010 --> 00:27:03,490 Speaker 1: plain language, it says Stemple will agree to take less 375 00:27:03,490 --> 00:27:07,290 Speaker 1: than his actual winnings on the show at the end 376 00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:11,250 Speaker 1: of his journey if he signs, he agrees to take 377 00:27:11,290 --> 00:27:14,450 Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars if he lands on anything between sixty 378 00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:19,450 Speaker 1: and eighty K, fifty thousand on any earnings between eighty 379 00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:23,650 Speaker 1: and one hundred K, and sixty thousand on anything over 380 00:27:23,690 --> 00:27:28,330 Speaker 1: one hundred K. And Wright makes it very clear that 381 00:27:28,450 --> 00:27:32,290 Speaker 1: he can either sign now or lose very badly and 382 00:27:32,410 --> 00:27:36,890 Speaker 1: walk with less than the lowest amount offered. Flashback to 383 00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:40,930 Speaker 1: that moment, just a few weeks ago, Stemple's apartment, his 384 00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:46,770 Speaker 1: son running around. Stemple let money trample his morals. Now 385 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:51,570 Speaker 1: even the money is being taken away. Stepple's obviously a 386 00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:55,250 Speaker 1: bit blindsided, and Wright tells him not to worry. Hey, Stemple, 387 00:27:55,290 --> 00:27:58,250 Speaker 1: you're not just a postal clerk anymore. You're a TV star. 388 00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:00,970 Speaker 1: And and Wright just happens to be a TV producer. 389 00:28:01,570 --> 00:28:04,050 Speaker 1: After Stemple's done on twenty one, he'll be a perfect 390 00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:06,770 Speaker 1: fit for some other game show, maybe even a panel 391 00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:09,570 Speaker 1: show where he could simply just make money with his 392 00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:15,490 Speaker 1: wit and intellect. Who's your boy? Who's Enright's good partner? 393 00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:20,610 Speaker 1: To sign the contract? Stemple? You're smart? You say, Oh, 394 00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:24,690 Speaker 1: you're so smart, Stemple, You're the best. You'd be a 395 00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:33,610 Speaker 1: TV star. Stemple signs, and from this point forward, absolutely 396 00:28:33,650 --> 00:28:43,650 Speaker 1: nothing goes right for him. We're back in Enright's office. 397 00:28:44,010 --> 00:28:46,610 Speaker 1: Stemple's there again, but this time it's a few weeks later. 398 00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:50,210 Speaker 1: Stemple is the champion and his next show, he has 399 00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:54,130 Speaker 1: his chance to cross the line of one hundred thousand dollars. 400 00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:59,010 Speaker 1: But that's not going to happen because en Right has 401 00:28:59,050 --> 00:29:01,890 Speaker 1: to break some bad news to the kid. You gotta 402 00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:05,850 Speaker 1: lose next week. This is where the ride ends. Hey, 403 00:29:05,850 --> 00:29:12,770 Speaker 1: hold on, be cool. Who's your boy? Stempy? Stempy is 404 00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:15,890 Speaker 1: not cool. He wants to know exactly who's going to 405 00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:20,490 Speaker 1: replace him, and Wright explains, Ah, it's this alegant guy 406 00:29:20,530 --> 00:29:23,850 Speaker 1: by the name of Charles van Dorn. He's an you know, 407 00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:29,730 Speaker 1: an actor, writer, and is this professor at Columbia. I 408 00:29:29,730 --> 00:29:33,170 Speaker 1: mean he's from a famous intellectual family. You know enough 409 00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:35,850 Speaker 1: about Charles van Dorn. The important thing, Stempy is that 410 00:29:35,890 --> 00:29:39,250 Speaker 1: you're going to take a dive. Whoa, whoa? Stemp says, 411 00:29:39,490 --> 00:29:43,130 Speaker 1: if Van Dorn's from Columbia, Stepple is like from city college. 412 00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:45,530 Speaker 1: What if they have a straight up game. I mean, 413 00:29:45,610 --> 00:29:47,930 Speaker 1: don't just make me take a dive. We can play 414 00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:50,530 Speaker 1: it fair, right, You could build it up like that 415 00:29:50,730 --> 00:29:54,490 Speaker 1: rich kid versus poor kid. Now that's good TV. Stemple 416 00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:57,730 Speaker 1: is so desperate he makes an offer. Stemple is willing 417 00:29:57,770 --> 00:30:01,850 Speaker 1: to bet his entire earnings on a straight up, honest, 418 00:30:02,090 --> 00:30:07,650 Speaker 1: legit game. Now think about this. The whole reason he 419 00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:11,250 Speaker 1: took the deal, the whole he was the perfect partner 420 00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:14,530 Speaker 1: to end Right is because he was in it for 421 00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:23,810 Speaker 1: the money. Boom that's out or what one word? Fame 422 00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:29,530 Speaker 1: Enright says, No plan is the plan. The ratings a 423 00:30:29,650 --> 00:30:33,290 Speaker 1: plateaued and Stemple it's time for new blood. Oh, by 424 00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:36,930 Speaker 1: the way, specifically, you're gonna lose on the question which 425 00:30:37,010 --> 00:30:40,810 Speaker 1: movie won Best Picture last year? You and I both 426 00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:43,090 Speaker 1: know that the real answers Marty, But you're going to 427 00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:50,570 Speaker 1: say on the waterfront. This crushes Stemple. It's this one detail, 428 00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:54,970 Speaker 1: It's this one honest fact that is going to live 429 00:30:55,490 --> 00:31:01,450 Speaker 1: in his brain for decades. It'll eventually become a beast 430 00:31:01,610 --> 00:31:04,410 Speaker 1: that consumes him. Not only does he have to take 431 00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:08,490 Speaker 1: the dive, he has to humiliate himself in the process. 432 00:31:09,690 --> 00:31:13,170 Speaker 1: But hey, who's walking away with forty thousand dollars of 433 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:17,610 Speaker 1: negotiated winnings. Who's gonna maybe be on another one of 434 00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:20,330 Speaker 1: our shows? Oh? Did I mention who I called? I 435 00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:24,170 Speaker 1: was on the phone with Steve Allen. I'm just saying this. 436 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:28,690 Speaker 1: Calms down, Stemple. I mean, if nothing else in this moment, 437 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:32,130 Speaker 1: he knows for a fact, at the very least, he 438 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:36,250 Speaker 1: is a legitimate TV Starin points, the category is movies 439 00:31:36,290 --> 00:31:38,690 Speaker 1: and movie stars. How many points do you want to 440 00:31:38,730 --> 00:31:43,770 Speaker 1: try for from one to eleven? I'll try five, which 441 00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:46,810 Speaker 1: would give you twenty one points if you get this right, 442 00:31:46,890 --> 00:31:50,490 Speaker 1: and you will be the winner again. What motion Picture 443 00:31:50,770 --> 00:31:55,450 Speaker 1: won the Academy Award for nineteen fifty five. Later on, 444 00:31:55,650 --> 00:31:58,730 Speaker 1: when Stemple talked about this moment, he would say he 445 00:31:58,930 --> 00:32:04,130 Speaker 1: seriously thought full ongoing rogue live on TV in that 446 00:32:04,210 --> 00:32:09,370 Speaker 1: isolation booth, you could literally say whatever he wanted. Whole 447 00:32:09,370 --> 00:32:13,370 Speaker 1: world was watching. When he was asked which movie one 448 00:32:13,450 --> 00:32:16,570 Speaker 1: best Picture, he really could just say Marty and win. 449 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:19,650 Speaker 1: He could retire with his winnings and walk off the set. 450 00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:22,890 Speaker 1: By the way, that's another thing we should point out 451 00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:26,130 Speaker 1: now that we're at the end of Stemple's run. Enright 452 00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:29,290 Speaker 1: effectively controlled him in two ways when it came to 453 00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:32,930 Speaker 1: the money. The first was the contract where Enright convinced 454 00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:35,610 Speaker 1: Stemple to take less money pennies on the dollar, But 455 00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:39,970 Speaker 1: this second was convincing him to keep playing. Much like 456 00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:42,970 Speaker 1: sweet Bible quote and Catherine on sixty four thousand dollars question, 457 00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:48,250 Speaker 1: you could just take the money and go risk. On 458 00:32:48,290 --> 00:32:52,250 Speaker 1: the other side, looks different when the producer is promising 459 00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:55,530 Speaker 1: you the answers, I mean, until he decides to stop 460 00:32:55,530 --> 00:32:58,490 Speaker 1: giving them to you. You'll always have the option to 461 00:32:58,650 --> 00:33:01,490 Speaker 1: leave no matter what he says. And yet you feel 462 00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:05,130 Speaker 1: like you don't want to leave. You feel like the 463 00:33:05,170 --> 00:33:10,490 Speaker 1: path of least resistance is to just stay. I don't remember. 464 00:33:12,610 --> 00:33:14,650 Speaker 1: I don't remember. We want to take a guess at it. 465 00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:17,850 Speaker 1: If not, I don't have to hondel it wrong Herb 466 00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:22,930 Speaker 1: on the Waterfront, No, I'm sorry. The answer is Marty. 467 00:33:23,410 --> 00:33:26,290 Speaker 1: Marty's you lose five points to put you back down 468 00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:30,130 Speaker 1: to eleven. Better luck on the next round. How did 469 00:33:30,170 --> 00:33:33,370 Speaker 1: that moment play or end right up in the control 470 00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:37,930 Speaker 1: room deep inside his head, what's going on? The Stemple 471 00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:42,650 Speaker 1: experiment was a huge leap forward. The repeat winner idea 472 00:33:42,810 --> 00:33:45,970 Speaker 1: was money in the bank ratings wise, I mean, the 473 00:33:46,010 --> 00:33:48,690 Speaker 1: problem with Stemple is he just couldn't break through to 474 00:33:48,730 --> 00:33:51,810 Speaker 1: the next level, right wolf? Was he a bit of 475 00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:56,370 Speaker 1: a handful so neurotic needy. Also that part where I 476 00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:58,370 Speaker 1: promised aim money and then a few weeks later took 477 00:33:58,370 --> 00:34:01,890 Speaker 1: it away. That was an elegant In this moment, en 478 00:34:01,970 --> 00:34:05,450 Speaker 1: Right makes two decisions. Remember one, his hands stayed clean. 479 00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:08,530 Speaker 1: From now on, all the rigging gets done by somebody 480 00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:11,730 Speaker 1: whose name is not in right. Number. Two, you pay 481 00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:15,010 Speaker 1: the contestants up front. That way they can't complain when 482 00:34:15,010 --> 00:34:16,930 Speaker 1: they don't get as much money as is on the board. 483 00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:21,610 Speaker 1: The dollars are just points. And the new policy begins 484 00:34:22,770 --> 00:34:28,370 Speaker 1: with that beautiful, intellectual, sexy mind of Charles van Dorn. 485 00:34:29,170 --> 00:34:34,410 Speaker 1: He crushes Stemple and immediately becomes a super nova. Ratings 486 00:34:34,490 --> 00:34:38,970 Speaker 1: go through the roof. The network is thrilled. How thrilled? 487 00:34:39,210 --> 00:34:42,770 Speaker 1: After only eighteen weeks on the air, they counter program 488 00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:47,490 Speaker 1: twenty one directly opposite I Love Lucy, and they held 489 00:34:47,570 --> 00:34:57,450 Speaker 1: their own. Here's a quote from CBS, WHA sorry so 490 00:34:57,570 --> 00:35:01,130 Speaker 1: much of This is not because of dan Enright's genius 491 00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:04,490 Speaker 1: of feeding answers. It's because of that beautiful, sexy mind 492 00:35:04,490 --> 00:35:08,090 Speaker 1: of Van Doren. He checks all of the boxes. Smart, 493 00:35:08,290 --> 00:35:15,370 Speaker 1: good family, white, unmarried, white artist, white. Also he's white. 494 00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:18,330 Speaker 1: Did you hear he didn't even own a TV before 495 00:35:18,370 --> 00:35:24,130 Speaker 1: coming on twenty one? How adorable? But there is a downside. 496 00:35:24,810 --> 00:35:28,050 Speaker 1: Because Van Doren is a legit academic, he does have 497 00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:31,730 Speaker 1: a for real reputation that he wants to uphold. I 498 00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:34,530 Speaker 1: mean apologies to Stemple in the post office, but the 499 00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:39,210 Speaker 1: Van Doren family are tied to American institutions, the Pulitzer 500 00:35:39,210 --> 00:35:43,530 Speaker 1: Prize in Columbia University. Ever heard of them? Young Charles 501 00:35:43,610 --> 00:35:46,530 Speaker 1: is close to completing his PhD. If he were revealed 502 00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:50,570 Speaker 1: as at chieg why well, that simply cannot happen. As 503 00:35:50,610 --> 00:35:56,330 Speaker 1: the spotlight grows hotter, Van Doren begins to have second thoughts, and, 504 00:35:56,530 --> 00:36:00,410 Speaker 1: unlike Stemple, he makes direct please to be allowed to 505 00:36:00,490 --> 00:36:05,930 Speaker 1: leave the show, and Wright says nope, things are going 506 00:36:06,090 --> 00:36:10,970 Speaker 1: way too well. In Ruary of nineteen fifty seven, Van 507 00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:16,170 Speaker 1: Doren is given the cover of Time magazine. One month later, 508 00:36:16,610 --> 00:36:20,970 Speaker 1: he finally gets his wish. He loses doing air quotes 509 00:36:20,970 --> 00:36:23,490 Speaker 1: you can't see him because it's a podcast to a 510 00:36:23,570 --> 00:36:26,610 Speaker 1: young female lawyer, and walks away with one hundred and 511 00:36:26,730 --> 00:36:30,410 Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand dollars over a million bucks in today's money. 512 00:36:30,930 --> 00:36:34,170 Speaker 1: Bigger than that, He's given a contract by NBC that 513 00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:38,010 Speaker 1: will eventually see him make regular appearances on the Today Show, 514 00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:42,650 Speaker 1: New Champ. She gets ten thousand dollars upfront and the 515 00:36:42,690 --> 00:36:53,330 Speaker 1: hopes that she can keep the momentum going. Damn, if 516 00:36:53,370 --> 00:36:56,810 Speaker 1: you're in right, things are going great shows not just stable, 517 00:36:56,810 --> 00:37:00,730 Speaker 1: it's thriving. You just minted a bona fide cultural celebrity. 518 00:37:00,890 --> 00:37:04,370 Speaker 1: Now you've got to try again with a woman that 519 00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:07,130 Speaker 1: was progressive for the time I assume, I mean, hell, 520 00:37:07,210 --> 00:37:10,890 Speaker 1: maybe she could be another doctor Joyce brothers even better. 521 00:37:11,050 --> 00:37:14,530 Speaker 1: Looks like Van Doren came out ahead. Dude's getting marriage 522 00:37:14,570 --> 00:37:17,490 Speaker 1: proposals a dozen a week. Looks like he's about to 523 00:37:17,490 --> 00:37:21,490 Speaker 1: start a new TV career. This whole system is totally victimless. 524 00:37:22,690 --> 00:37:27,570 Speaker 1: I mean except for Stemple God. He keeps calling, I 525 00:37:27,610 --> 00:37:31,290 Speaker 1: mean right, keeps not answering, But Jesus, what does he want? 526 00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:34,850 Speaker 1: Everybody knows him. He got forty thousand dollars boring for 527 00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:39,090 Speaker 1: TV who said that. I mean, if he was good, 528 00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:41,570 Speaker 1: he'd still be on the show. Right. So here's the 529 00:37:41,610 --> 00:37:47,770 Speaker 1: problem for Enwright. No con is perfect. He got way 530 00:37:47,810 --> 00:37:51,130 Speaker 1: ahead by risking the reputations of a veteran, a professor, 531 00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:55,370 Speaker 1: and a lawyer so far, but the first to knowingly 532 00:37:55,490 --> 00:38:02,170 Speaker 1: take the deal is feeling deep regrets. Stemple calls again 533 00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:07,490 Speaker 1: and again, and then one day he shows straight up 534 00:38:07,530 --> 00:38:14,130 Speaker 1: at Enwright's office, tells Anwright he's broke. Even worse, he 535 00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:16,690 Speaker 1: lent eight thousand dollars to a dude that lives in 536 00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:19,930 Speaker 1: his building for a horse race fixing syndicate. And now 537 00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:23,250 Speaker 1: this scary thug wants his money. So, yeah, about that 538 00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:28,650 Speaker 1: TV opportunity you were talking about. Oh no, there's still 539 00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:33,610 Speaker 1: nothing for you. It's about now that Stemple begins to 540 00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:37,450 Speaker 1: drop the bomb. Enwright can make right on his promise, 541 00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:42,370 Speaker 1: or Stemple is going to go public, says he's going 542 00:38:42,450 --> 00:38:47,130 Speaker 1: to go to the Justice Department. Stemple promises to snitch 543 00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:52,850 Speaker 1: on everything. All right, Yeah he's stempy, baby, that can't happen. 544 00:38:53,290 --> 00:38:56,690 Speaker 1: Enwright explains to Stemple to calm down. First, you never 545 00:38:56,730 --> 00:38:59,490 Speaker 1: got the answers in advance. Second, head, look, it's all 546 00:38:59,530 --> 00:39:03,490 Speaker 1: gonna work out. Third, I think you need therapy. In fact, 547 00:39:03,610 --> 00:39:05,290 Speaker 1: I'll be happy to pay for it. Here we go 548 00:39:05,370 --> 00:39:08,210 Speaker 1: one Dan Enright pays for a therapy. Blank check. There 549 00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:10,050 Speaker 1: you go. Also, would you mind signing this piece of 550 00:39:10,050 --> 00:39:16,410 Speaker 1: paper that says you never took the answers? Stemple signs, 551 00:39:17,450 --> 00:39:21,050 Speaker 1: and that buys Enright a couple of weeks. But in 552 00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:23,970 Speaker 1: the meantime, Enright can't make good on his promises of 553 00:39:24,010 --> 00:39:28,850 Speaker 1: TV work, So eventually Stemple cracks calls a reporter about 554 00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:38,090 Speaker 1: the whole situation. The reporter calls Enright. Enright calls stempley wind, 555 00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:43,770 Speaker 1: can you want a new quick story? Happy? No, he's not. 556 00:39:46,090 --> 00:39:51,490 Speaker 1: He refuses, because now this isn't about fame, it's about pride. 557 00:39:51,730 --> 00:39:54,330 Speaker 1: Stemple is going to tell the truth and there's nothing 558 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:58,250 Speaker 1: Enright can do about it. And it's a noble gesture. 559 00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:01,090 Speaker 1: But Stemple won't be a good messenger for long. Not 560 00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,330 Speaker 1: only did he sign a letter saying he never took 561 00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:12,330 Speaker 1: the answers, but Enright secretly recorded Stemple blackmailing him. So fine, Stampy, 562 00:40:12,730 --> 00:40:18,050 Speaker 1: go to the press, go to the feds. Me, I'm untouchable, 563 00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:22,450 Speaker 1: untouchable like a big wig in a Hollywood movie. And 564 00:40:22,610 --> 00:40:26,730 Speaker 1: funny enough, it's going to be a Hollywood screenwriter who 565 00:40:26,850 --> 00:40:38,890 Speaker 1: changes everything. This is Tim Holford, host of Kush Metals. 566 00:40:39,290 --> 00:40:42,970 Speaker 1: Now we return to Brian Brushwood and World's Greatest con 567 00:40:53,450 --> 00:41:00,570 Speaker 1: Unlike most of our players, James Snodgrass knows this is bullshit. 568 00:41:01,530 --> 00:41:04,930 Speaker 1: This is not how the biz should be operating. He 569 00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:09,210 Speaker 1: knows that he is part of a conspiracy, and he 570 00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:14,170 Speaker 1: aims to come out smelling clean. So he pulls a 571 00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:18,010 Speaker 1: trick something that's known to copywriters around the world that 572 00:41:18,090 --> 00:41:21,570 Speaker 1: if you want to prove that you wrote the words 573 00:41:21,610 --> 00:41:25,970 Speaker 1: before somebody else claims they did, send it to yourself 574 00:41:26,570 --> 00:41:31,810 Speaker 1: certified mail. And if you are ever challenged on when 575 00:41:31,970 --> 00:41:36,290 Speaker 1: you knew these things, you could present those sealed envelopes, 576 00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:41,250 Speaker 1: open them in front of an audience, and prove that 577 00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:46,210 Speaker 1: you are the true originator of the idea. For the 578 00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:50,210 Speaker 1: three weeks that Snodgrass has the spotlight of twenty one 579 00:41:50,290 --> 00:41:55,650 Speaker 1: shown on him, he wants insurance, so he mails himself 580 00:41:55,850 --> 00:42:00,450 Speaker 1: the answers that dan Enright had provided him in certified 581 00:42:00,810 --> 00:42:06,690 Speaker 1: mail and holds onto them, knowing that eventually they're going 582 00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:11,450 Speaker 1: to set them free. I don't know if Snodgrass is 583 00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:16,690 Speaker 1: just inherently cocky, or maybe having those envelopes tucked in 584 00:42:16,770 --> 00:42:23,770 Speaker 1: his back pocket helped herd his enthusiasm. But here's the difference. 585 00:42:24,930 --> 00:42:30,170 Speaker 1: When Stemple thought about going Rogue considered, ever so briefly, 586 00:42:30,210 --> 00:42:36,210 Speaker 1: the possibility that maybe he would just run wild Snodgrass diet. 587 00:42:37,610 --> 00:42:41,290 Speaker 1: In Snodgrass's case, he's told, yeah, he'll take a dive, 588 00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:45,010 Speaker 1: just like Stemple, and yeah, it's gonna be embarrassing, just 589 00:42:45,090 --> 00:42:49,530 Speaker 1: like Stemple. But he's told that he's gonna misremember a 590 00:42:49,610 --> 00:42:56,770 Speaker 1: line from one of his favorite poets, Emily Dickinson, think 591 00:42:56,810 --> 00:43:01,050 Speaker 1: about that moment, the exact same moment from two different perspectives. 592 00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:06,370 Speaker 1: To Stemple's eyes, he gets told, you're gonna take a dive, 593 00:43:06,810 --> 00:43:10,690 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be about this question, and this is 594 00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:16,770 Speaker 1: the wrong answer you're gonna give. Snodgrass has the letters 595 00:43:16,810 --> 00:43:23,090 Speaker 1: and no illusions about what this is, and Snodgrass interprets 596 00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:26,970 Speaker 1: things very differently, because he too is told when he's 597 00:43:27,010 --> 00:43:29,450 Speaker 1: going to take a dive and what answer he's going 598 00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:35,010 Speaker 1: to give. However, Snodgrass realizes that he now knows the 599 00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:41,290 Speaker 1: definite right answer that he must not give. In the 600 00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:45,930 Speaker 1: moments after his unexpected right answer, the producers run onto 601 00:43:46,010 --> 00:43:48,330 Speaker 1: the set and they ask if Snodgrass is hey, man, 602 00:43:48,490 --> 00:43:51,290 Speaker 1: are you feeling okay enough to compete? He says yep, 603 00:43:52,130 --> 00:43:56,450 Speaker 1: and they continue. But Snodgrass is in deep water. Now 604 00:43:56,610 --> 00:43:58,890 Speaker 1: he has no idea what the next questions are going 605 00:43:58,930 --> 00:44:01,890 Speaker 1: to be, and he has to answer them fair and square, 606 00:44:02,290 --> 00:44:05,930 Speaker 1: and this leads to a truly amazing moment. Here's host 607 00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:09,650 Speaker 1: Jack Barry setting everything up in the rematch one week later, 608 00:44:09,690 --> 00:44:12,610 Speaker 1: As you may recall, you each chose an eleven point 609 00:44:12,690 --> 00:44:15,690 Speaker 1: question which asked for the five groups of bones in 610 00:44:15,770 --> 00:44:19,890 Speaker 1: our spine. Now, Jim, your first answer was sacrum. All 611 00:44:19,930 --> 00:44:22,730 Speaker 1: I have here in front of me are these question cards, 612 00:44:22,930 --> 00:44:25,050 Speaker 1: and there are answers on there which are approved in 613 00:44:25,130 --> 00:44:27,890 Speaker 1: advance of the program. Well, sacrum was not on the 614 00:44:27,930 --> 00:44:32,130 Speaker 1: answer card, so I had to rule your roan. Then, Hank, 615 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:35,090 Speaker 1: you proceeded to name the five groups, and you named 616 00:44:35,090 --> 00:44:38,170 Speaker 1: as one of them coxic. Well, my answer card did 617 00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:41,370 Speaker 1: call for coxic or coccidule, so I had to rule 618 00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:44,810 Speaker 1: you right, and you run an awful lot of money. Well, 619 00:44:45,370 --> 00:44:47,850 Speaker 1: immediately after the program, there were thousands of phone calls, 620 00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:50,530 Speaker 1: hundreds from doctors, and we found out that there was 621 00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:54,010 Speaker 1: an inconsistency in the answers. We went through a great 622 00:44:54,010 --> 00:44:55,970 Speaker 1: deal trying to find out how we should square this 623 00:44:56,010 --> 00:44:57,370 Speaker 1: out with both of you in an effort to be 624 00:44:57,450 --> 00:44:59,450 Speaker 1: fair in our decision. And here's what we decided to do. 625 00:44:59,810 --> 00:45:01,490 Speaker 1: We decided that you're both going to play the game 626 00:45:01,530 --> 00:45:04,050 Speaker 1: over again at thirty five hundred dollars, a point right 627 00:45:04,090 --> 00:45:07,410 Speaker 1: back where we were. But Hank NBC in our sponsors, 628 00:45:07,490 --> 00:45:11,570 Speaker 1: despite being furious Snodgrass in the moment and write he 629 00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:15,250 Speaker 1: eventually comes around. I mean there's a big draw, lots 630 00:45:15,250 --> 00:45:20,850 Speaker 1: of numbers. Snodgrass loses the rematch in the short term, 631 00:45:20,970 --> 00:45:23,690 Speaker 1: this whole going rogue stunt. Yes, that turned out to 632 00:45:23,730 --> 00:45:27,610 Speaker 1: be a win for the producer letters though, that's our 633 00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:31,850 Speaker 1: hidden snake in the grass, just waiting for the perfect 634 00:45:31,850 --> 00:45:37,810 Speaker 1: time to strike. Meanwhile, at this exact same moment, Stemple 635 00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:40,970 Speaker 1: finally makes good on his threat and takes his story 636 00:45:41,410 --> 00:45:54,370 Speaker 1: for the Southern District of New York's Justice Department. So far, 637 00:45:54,810 --> 00:45:58,690 Speaker 1: this has been a story of people offering fame and 638 00:45:58,850 --> 00:46:01,290 Speaker 1: people take in the devil's bargain. For the rest of 639 00:46:01,290 --> 00:46:05,010 Speaker 1: the story, you've got to understand the power of shame 640 00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:12,210 Speaker 1: from an evolutionary perspective shaming exile in a small band 641 00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:16,970 Speaker 1: of one hundred villagers, that equals death. You know that 642 00:46:17,050 --> 00:46:19,970 Speaker 1: image of the hands in the face being locked in 643 00:46:20,290 --> 00:46:24,290 Speaker 1: while everybody throws fruit out of them. The punishment is 644 00:46:24,330 --> 00:46:27,570 Speaker 1: not the fruit. The punishment is the fact that the 645 00:46:27,690 --> 00:46:32,730 Speaker 1: stocks are built to force the person inside to look 646 00:46:33,210 --> 00:46:38,490 Speaker 1: at all the disapproval from their fellow villagers. Nathaniel Hawthorne 647 00:46:38,490 --> 00:46:40,890 Speaker 1: wrote about it in The Scarlet Letter. There are stories 648 00:46:40,930 --> 00:46:44,330 Speaker 1: of people who committed crimes and their one request is, 649 00:46:44,410 --> 00:46:48,090 Speaker 1: please pull out my fingernails right now while nobody's looking, 650 00:46:48,490 --> 00:46:53,610 Speaker 1: before the mob gets stirred. We are built in our 651 00:46:53,730 --> 00:47:01,410 Speaker 1: core beings are weird lizard brains to associate shaming with death. 652 00:47:02,090 --> 00:47:04,490 Speaker 1: All right, do me a favor. Think of the moment 653 00:47:04,610 --> 00:47:08,650 Speaker 1: of your own personal biggest shame, a moment where you 654 00:47:08,690 --> 00:47:11,330 Speaker 1: did some thing so embarrassing that you can't let go 655 00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:13,570 Speaker 1: of it, When you did something that you knew that 656 00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:15,450 Speaker 1: was going to stick with you for the rest of 657 00:47:15,490 --> 00:47:20,010 Speaker 1: your life. The funny part is I didn't even have 658 00:47:20,090 --> 00:47:22,450 Speaker 1: to ask you to do that, because the moment I 659 00:47:22,610 --> 00:47:26,530 Speaker 1: mentioned personal shame, you already went to work. You were 660 00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:33,450 Speaker 1: already thinking of your personal lowest moment. Now, imagine that 661 00:47:33,570 --> 00:47:37,970 Speaker 1: the whole world knows about it. Everybody you know and love, 662 00:47:38,010 --> 00:47:41,090 Speaker 1: and everybody they know and love. Every single person on 663 00:47:41,130 --> 00:47:44,970 Speaker 1: the planet knows it. I'm not doing this to be cruel. 664 00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:48,970 Speaker 1: I'm about to reveal my deepest shame. Keep in mind, 665 00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:51,730 Speaker 1: I'm a guy who'll stick a nail in his I 666 00:47:51,810 --> 00:47:55,810 Speaker 1: just to get you a clap. I built a career 667 00:47:55,850 --> 00:47:58,970 Speaker 1: as a touring magician because I sought out every media 668 00:47:59,010 --> 00:48:01,690 Speaker 1: opportunity I could get my hands on. If you had 669 00:48:01,690 --> 00:48:05,050 Speaker 1: a TV show, local, national, or radio show, a morning 670 00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:07,890 Speaker 1: program and internet program, I wanted to be a part 671 00:48:07,930 --> 00:48:10,530 Speaker 1: of it. And as a result, I did a lot 672 00:48:10,570 --> 00:48:13,810 Speaker 1: of stuff, nine percent of which I'm very proud of. 673 00:48:14,490 --> 00:48:19,330 Speaker 1: Every appearance was just another clip, another scratch off lottery 674 00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:21,690 Speaker 1: ticket that might be the one that made me famous. 675 00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:27,010 Speaker 1: Normally I always do super polished material, but there was 676 00:48:27,090 --> 00:48:30,610 Speaker 1: one time I had a goofy one off lark an 677 00:48:30,650 --> 00:48:33,010 Speaker 1: idea that I thought would be perfect just as a 678 00:48:33,050 --> 00:48:37,690 Speaker 1: standalone bit on TV. It's a viral video actually, and 679 00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:40,210 Speaker 1: if you're like the rest of the world, you probably 680 00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:44,050 Speaker 1: thought it was totally real. About called stigmata? What it is? 681 00:48:44,050 --> 00:48:48,290 Speaker 1: It uses a knife four styrofoam cups and a turntable. 682 00:48:48,330 --> 00:48:51,050 Speaker 1: The knife goes in a turntable where it could spin around, 683 00:48:51,850 --> 00:48:54,010 Speaker 1: and then I cover up the knife. It's a grainy 684 00:48:54,090 --> 00:48:57,250 Speaker 1: video where a magician me is about to slam his 685 00:48:57,290 --> 00:49:01,970 Speaker 1: hand down onto a styrofoam cup with a knife and 686 00:49:02,010 --> 00:49:06,130 Speaker 1: if all goes well, and for a split second it 687 00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:08,890 Speaker 1: really looks like the knife just goes right through my 688 00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:13,890 Speaker 1: and the camera cuts. The next thing you see is 689 00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:17,410 Speaker 1: my hand all bandaged, ME with a sheepish grin saying 690 00:49:20,330 --> 00:49:22,090 Speaker 1: I said it as a joke to my friends over 691 00:49:22,170 --> 00:49:24,890 Speaker 1: at the Tonight Show, and to my delight, they had 692 00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:27,330 Speaker 1: me out to do it live on the show. And 693 00:49:27,410 --> 00:49:33,210 Speaker 1: if all goes well, and as there said, he was impressed. 694 00:49:35,010 --> 00:49:37,650 Speaker 1: It's a flash forward a few years and America's Got 695 00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:41,730 Speaker 1: Talent is looking for magicians because I have this very 696 00:49:41,890 --> 00:49:46,650 Speaker 1: very simple, one note joke that I think is hilarious. Hell, 697 00:49:46,850 --> 00:49:48,930 Speaker 1: if it's good enough for the Tonight Show, surely is 698 00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:52,850 Speaker 1: good enough for America's Got Talent. I send them the tape. 699 00:49:52,890 --> 00:49:56,290 Speaker 1: They dig it. Drive up to Dallas with running wife 700 00:49:56,290 --> 00:50:00,210 Speaker 1: and two kids. We'd get up there, spent an entire 701 00:50:00,330 --> 00:50:05,490 Speaker 1: day in production. But when that moment comes and I 702 00:50:05,610 --> 00:50:10,170 Speaker 1: walk out there. My seven year old daughter tears off 703 00:50:10,290 --> 00:50:14,410 Speaker 1: a piece of her blankie and says, for luck, daddy. 704 00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:19,650 Speaker 1: I tuck it into my pocket. I mean, how easy 705 00:50:19,930 --> 00:50:22,690 Speaker 1: is this going to be? The same trick that became 706 00:50:22,730 --> 00:50:25,610 Speaker 1: a viral sensation, The same trick I did on the 707 00:50:25,650 --> 00:50:28,930 Speaker 1: tonight show that Ed Asner called me, you fool with 708 00:50:29,010 --> 00:50:31,810 Speaker 1: a smile. I was gonna do a one more time. 709 00:50:37,090 --> 00:50:41,170 Speaker 1: It didn't go well. Two of the four judges instantly 710 00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:46,330 Speaker 1: thought I had actually injured myself live on stage. After buzzing, 711 00:50:47,090 --> 00:50:52,250 Speaker 1: after cackling, I came back and realized that not only 712 00:50:53,410 --> 00:50:58,050 Speaker 1: had the judges decided they didn't like being made the sucker, 713 00:50:59,290 --> 00:51:03,530 Speaker 1: they were turning the audience against me. And even in 714 00:51:03,610 --> 00:51:07,610 Speaker 1: that moment onstage, being booed by two thousand people, I 715 00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:15,010 Speaker 1: knew one thing. I wanted to bury this segment, and 716 00:51:15,050 --> 00:51:19,370 Speaker 1: then the three and a half hour drive home, and 717 00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:24,490 Speaker 1: then the sitting there for three months being convinced that 718 00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:27,930 Speaker 1: I had career cancer that was about to drop like 719 00:51:27,970 --> 00:51:31,090 Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb, that I was going to be the sucker. 720 00:51:31,570 --> 00:51:35,730 Speaker 1: If I had the chance to personally break into that 721 00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:39,010 Speaker 1: place and destroy the tapes, I would have done it, 722 00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:42,050 Speaker 1: and that's the beginning of what I would have done 723 00:51:42,410 --> 00:51:47,450 Speaker 1: for fear of the shame that was coming. And then 724 00:51:47,610 --> 00:51:53,730 Speaker 1: finally the faithful night arrived. America's Got Talent in Dallas. 725 00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:58,050 Speaker 1: Standing alone in my living room, I'm watching the show begin, 726 00:51:58,810 --> 00:52:03,490 Speaker 1: and in the first four seconds, I am the first 727 00:52:03,730 --> 00:52:07,530 Speaker 1: pop that they put in the coming up on this episode. 728 00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:13,330 Speaker 1: My heart is pulsing and racing. I feel that tight 729 00:52:13,690 --> 00:52:18,930 Speaker 1: band of ultimate anxiety, and I just think, this is it. 730 00:52:18,930 --> 00:52:22,410 Speaker 1: It's all over. And I watch through the first segment, 731 00:52:23,330 --> 00:52:26,370 Speaker 1: the second segment, the third segment, and finally we get 732 00:52:26,370 --> 00:52:28,450 Speaker 1: to the fourth segment. This is the one where they 733 00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:32,890 Speaker 1: round up all the joke acts, all the idiots who 734 00:52:32,970 --> 00:52:40,250 Speaker 1: do everything wrong, and I'm not in it. I spent 735 00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:45,410 Speaker 1: three and a half months agonizing about what I thought 736 00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:48,490 Speaker 1: was going to be the end of my career for 737 00:52:48,650 --> 00:52:54,970 Speaker 1: a moment that never showed up, and I dodged a 738 00:52:55,130 --> 00:53:00,570 Speaker 1: bullet of shame. But for the people we're talking about 739 00:53:01,090 --> 00:53:06,890 Speaker 1: in this story, they live with that shame for decades. 740 00:53:08,530 --> 00:53:25,930 Speaker 1: It timidly becomes the single line of their obituaries. It's 741 00:53:26,010 --> 00:53:28,810 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven and things are getting a bit hot 742 00:53:28,850 --> 00:53:32,290 Speaker 1: in the game show world. There's whisperers about talent grooming, 743 00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:36,010 Speaker 1: meddling from title sponsors, out and out frauds starting to 744 00:53:36,050 --> 00:53:38,450 Speaker 1: bubble up all through the press. Most of the stories 745 00:53:38,490 --> 00:53:41,170 Speaker 1: they never make it to print. The in house attorneys 746 00:53:41,170 --> 00:53:43,650 Speaker 1: that all of the press outlets they're super scared of 747 00:53:43,650 --> 00:53:46,090 Speaker 1: a libel suit from one of the networks, and that's 748 00:53:46,210 --> 00:53:49,490 Speaker 1: enough to kill the investigative reporting that initially goes into it. 749 00:53:50,050 --> 00:53:54,170 Speaker 1: But in nineteen fifty seven, two national magazines both run 750 00:53:54,370 --> 00:53:58,050 Speaker 1: articles compiling some of the allegations. Combine that with a 751 00:53:58,130 --> 00:54:01,210 Speaker 1: prosecutor from the Justice Department who's calling for a grand 752 00:54:01,290 --> 00:54:08,930 Speaker 1: jury investigation into industry wide practices and specifically twenty one NBC. 753 00:54:09,130 --> 00:54:12,010 Speaker 1: He calls in and write, hey, man, what's going on? 754 00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:16,050 Speaker 1: Enright says, oh, well, you know, he's never given any answers, 755 00:54:16,250 --> 00:54:18,650 Speaker 1: And to prove that Stemple's crank, he even plays for 756 00:54:18,730 --> 00:54:22,250 Speaker 1: him the blackmail tape that he's secretly recorded, shows them 757 00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:24,890 Speaker 1: the signed note. Yeah, it's good enough for the network 758 00:54:26,250 --> 00:54:28,610 Speaker 1: they ride with n Right, and that means there are 759 00:54:28,650 --> 00:54:34,050 Speaker 1: some pretty powerful forces defending twenty one. In his book 760 00:54:34,090 --> 00:54:37,490 Speaker 1: about the whole investigation, the prosecutor who impaneled the grand 761 00:54:37,570 --> 00:54:42,170 Speaker 1: jury describes the pressure he was under. That pressure shows 762 00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:45,290 Speaker 1: up in how many former members of the Justice Department 763 00:54:45,330 --> 00:54:49,370 Speaker 1: who are now in private practices represent the interests of 764 00:54:49,410 --> 00:54:54,010 Speaker 1: the network or n Right. Think about that. These are 765 00:54:54,010 --> 00:54:57,490 Speaker 1: people who used to be the deciders of truth and 766 00:54:57,610 --> 00:55:01,290 Speaker 1: fiction and now they're working for one side or the other. 767 00:55:01,650 --> 00:55:04,370 Speaker 1: He got overt hints that there might be a a 768 00:55:04,410 --> 00:55:07,130 Speaker 1: future in politics for him if he just let this 769 00:55:07,170 --> 00:55:12,650 Speaker 1: one go. But the more en Right and the network stonewalled, 770 00:55:13,290 --> 00:55:18,290 Speaker 1: the more this prosecutor pushes, and the whole time and 771 00:55:18,450 --> 00:55:21,530 Speaker 1: write is thinking, dude, what's the crime here? The sponsor 772 00:55:21,570 --> 00:55:24,650 Speaker 1: isn't complaining about theft or fraud, network is getting what 773 00:55:24,650 --> 00:55:29,770 Speaker 1: they paid for the contestants. The contestants well, I mean, yes, 774 00:55:29,850 --> 00:55:33,690 Speaker 1: technically they're misrepresenting themselves on national Television's sure, but they're 775 00:55:33,730 --> 00:55:36,210 Speaker 1: doing it because I'm telling them too. But you know what, 776 00:55:36,530 --> 00:55:39,250 Speaker 1: from that first moment I walked into Stemple's dumb apartment, 777 00:55:39,490 --> 00:55:42,570 Speaker 1: I was up front about what we were doing and 778 00:55:42,690 --> 00:55:48,970 Speaker 1: what they were getting themselves into. Uh. I mean, they're actors, right, 779 00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:56,890 Speaker 1: They're actors in a story I'm writing pretty much Shakespeare, 780 00:55:59,450 --> 00:56:03,490 Speaker 1: And he's right, they are actors to him. But They 781 00:56:03,490 --> 00:56:07,610 Speaker 1: are not actors by reputation. Their friends, their family, their 782 00:56:07,650 --> 00:56:11,890 Speaker 1: business associates, they don't know them as actors. The pride 783 00:56:11,930 --> 00:56:16,770 Speaker 1: that comes from the show is a lie. The act 784 00:56:17,770 --> 00:56:24,890 Speaker 1: is a deception. This show is a con But like 785 00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:27,650 Speaker 1: so many people who have been conned, the shame of 786 00:56:27,690 --> 00:56:32,970 Speaker 1: admitting it comes a prison, a very cozy prison that 787 00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:37,370 Speaker 1: people are willing to stay locked in forever. And at 788 00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:41,410 Speaker 1: this moment, the prosecutors begin to interview former contestants, members 789 00:56:41,410 --> 00:56:46,690 Speaker 1: of n Rights production staff, almost to a man, a lie. 790 00:56:48,090 --> 00:56:52,530 Speaker 1: They say. Nobody gave any answers to anybody. The prosecutors say, look, man, 791 00:56:53,050 --> 00:56:55,570 Speaker 1: you can lie to me now. But if you're called 792 00:56:55,610 --> 00:56:58,210 Speaker 1: back for a grand jury and you're put under oath, 793 00:56:59,210 --> 00:57:04,450 Speaker 1: that's perjury. That's a real crime. Grand jury is impaneled. 794 00:57:05,210 --> 00:57:08,770 Speaker 1: The same witnesses who are just interviewed are called and again, 795 00:57:09,570 --> 00:57:15,410 Speaker 1: almost to a man, they all lie again, all to 796 00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:24,050 Speaker 1: protect their own reputations. That is the power of shame. Meanwhile, 797 00:57:24,210 --> 00:57:27,850 Speaker 1: n Wright goes full offense. He releases the Stemple tape 798 00:57:27,850 --> 00:57:30,770 Speaker 1: publicly to combat press reports of what's coming out of 799 00:57:30,770 --> 00:57:34,530 Speaker 1: the grand jury. N Wright is actively punishing the defector 800 00:57:34,890 --> 00:57:40,170 Speaker 1: by ruining his reputation, and yes, this is a rough 801 00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:43,850 Speaker 1: road for Nright, But at this moment, I mean, the 802 00:57:43,890 --> 00:57:46,850 Speaker 1: most beloved champions are saying they're clean. The only guy 803 00:57:46,850 --> 00:57:49,730 Speaker 1: who says it's rigged is on tape blackmailing the boss 804 00:57:49,850 --> 00:57:53,170 Speaker 1: for another bite of TV fame. The network wants to 805 00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:55,410 Speaker 1: believe them. They're putting all the pressure that they can 806 00:57:55,650 --> 00:58:02,330 Speaker 1: to make this go away. Until the prosecutors get ahold 807 00:58:02,530 --> 00:58:07,890 Speaker 1: of the Snodgrass letters, The smoking gun word starts to 808 00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:10,410 Speaker 1: get around to all of the ex contestants. Guess what 809 00:58:10,530 --> 00:58:13,450 Speaker 1: the jig is up Enright's assistant, the one who took 810 00:58:13,450 --> 00:58:16,730 Speaker 1: over all the direct coaching after Stemple. He's indicted on 811 00:58:16,770 --> 00:58:20,290 Speaker 1: two counts of perjury. Several of the contestants come back 812 00:58:20,330 --> 00:58:23,730 Speaker 1: and tell the truth, hoping they'll get a reduced punishment, 813 00:58:24,050 --> 00:58:28,130 Speaker 1: But mostly they're worried about one thing. When the grand 814 00:58:28,210 --> 00:58:31,930 Speaker 1: jury minutes become public, are their names going to be 815 00:58:31,930 --> 00:58:35,450 Speaker 1: in it? Are they going to be shunned? Will they 816 00:58:35,490 --> 00:58:40,090 Speaker 1: be publicly shamed? Prosecutors say, your names are going to 817 00:58:40,130 --> 00:58:42,290 Speaker 1: be left out of this. All they want is the 818 00:58:42,370 --> 00:58:47,970 Speaker 1: people that pulled this off. And yet Enright never submits 819 00:58:48,130 --> 00:58:53,050 Speaker 1: to testimony, He never lies under oath. After nine months, 820 00:58:53,370 --> 00:58:58,730 Speaker 1: the grand jury concludes fifty nine sessions, two hundred plus witnesses. 821 00:58:59,650 --> 00:59:03,930 Speaker 1: Out of all of them, only fifty told the truth. 822 00:59:05,130 --> 00:59:08,530 Speaker 1: Now comes the best news for enright, against all precedent 823 00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:12,250 Speaker 1: in these matters, the judge overseeing the grand jury seals 824 00:59:12,290 --> 00:59:15,970 Speaker 1: the results. In his eyes, there's no crime committed. Therefore, 825 00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:17,850 Speaker 1: no need to drag the names of all these fine 826 00:59:17,890 --> 00:59:24,010 Speaker 1: people all through the press. That's it. That was Stemple's 827 00:59:24,050 --> 00:59:27,930 Speaker 1: best shot. You went through the press, you got nothing. 828 00:59:28,250 --> 00:59:30,810 Speaker 1: You went through the law, your results got buried in 829 00:59:30,850 --> 00:59:34,370 Speaker 1: the front yard. Come at me, bro I'm dan an right. 830 00:59:35,170 --> 00:59:38,090 Speaker 1: At this point, there's only one organization left that could 831 00:59:38,090 --> 00:59:42,490 Speaker 1: do a damn thing about it, the United States Congress. 832 00:59:44,570 --> 00:59:54,570 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens. In nineteen fifty nine. Television 833 00:59:54,610 --> 00:59:58,850 Speaker 1: star and famous intellectual Charles Van Dorn gets his doctorate, 834 00:59:59,610 --> 01:00:02,690 Speaker 1: and yet only months later he's on the run, avoiding 835 01:00:02,730 --> 01:00:05,650 Speaker 1: phone calls from his lawyer, he's avoiding phone calls from 836 01:00:05,690 --> 01:00:08,930 Speaker 1: his bosses, and he's avoiding the highest legislative body in 837 01:00:09,250 --> 01:00:15,610 Speaker 1: United States. This is the cost of shame. Congress opened 838 01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:18,810 Speaker 1: an investigation into the fixing of television shows and with 839 01:00:18,930 --> 01:00:22,330 Speaker 1: it in the unsealed minutes of the grand jury investigation. 840 01:00:22,970 --> 01:00:25,690 Speaker 1: Gone were the promises from the investigators that the names 841 01:00:25,690 --> 01:00:29,130 Speaker 1: of the contestants would be protected. One Stemple is called 842 01:00:29,130 --> 01:00:34,650 Speaker 1: before Congress. He relishes in telling the truth. He narrates 843 01:00:34,690 --> 01:00:38,010 Speaker 1: to the congressman, beat by beat, every move he made. 844 01:00:38,290 --> 01:00:41,570 Speaker 1: There's a projection of recording of one of his appearances. 845 01:00:41,890 --> 01:00:44,250 Speaker 1: He points out where Enright told him to dot his 846 01:00:44,330 --> 01:00:49,090 Speaker 1: brow for sweat, but never smear the makeup like a peak. 847 01:00:49,370 --> 01:00:55,210 Speaker 1: Las Vegas mentalist Snodgrass opens on live television one of 848 01:00:55,250 --> 01:01:02,170 Speaker 1: his famous sealed envelopes and reveals what's inside, and yet 849 01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:06,130 Speaker 1: still Van Doren remains elusive. He puts out a new statement, 850 01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:09,450 Speaker 1: sticking to his original statement. He never received any answers. 851 01:01:09,570 --> 01:01:11,850 Speaker 1: Congress has to issue a subpoena in order to get 852 01:01:11,930 --> 01:01:15,930 Speaker 1: him to appear, but they can't locate him. Grand jury 853 01:01:15,970 --> 01:01:19,050 Speaker 1: investigators would eventually say that Van Dorn was in part 854 01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:23,530 Speaker 1: so terrified of coming clean because he believed it would 855 01:01:23,650 --> 01:01:28,090 Speaker 1: kill literally kill his father. I mean it would certainly 856 01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:32,530 Speaker 1: kill his career, hell careers plural. Quite simply, he could 857 01:01:32,610 --> 01:01:36,850 Speaker 1: not bring himself to face the repercussions that this shame 858 01:01:37,450 --> 01:01:43,490 Speaker 1: was going to bring to his door, and yet eventually 859 01:01:44,210 --> 01:01:48,650 Speaker 1: he comes clean, first to the investigators that he lied to, 860 01:01:49,170 --> 01:01:52,650 Speaker 1: then to his attorney, then to his bosses, and finally 861 01:01:53,130 --> 01:01:57,410 Speaker 1: to all of America. He appears before Congress and tells 862 01:01:57,450 --> 01:02:03,770 Speaker 1: the world that he's a fraud. In the Senate hearing room, 863 01:02:04,210 --> 01:02:06,810 Speaker 1: the dramatic climax of the probe of fix and rig 864 01:02:06,890 --> 01:02:10,210 Speaker 1: quiz shows Charles van Dorn's why from father poet Mark 865 01:02:10,290 --> 01:02:13,170 Speaker 1: van Doren are in the audience as committee chairman, Senator 866 01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:16,690 Speaker 1: Arre and Harris opens the erie. Charles van Doren arrives 867 01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:19,610 Speaker 1: to apologize, an attempt to explain to the millions whose 868 01:02:19,610 --> 01:02:22,410 Speaker 1: friendship and respect he had won. He admits that he 869 01:02:22,450 --> 01:02:26,290 Speaker 1: received dramatic coaching and the questions and many of the answers, 870 01:02:26,330 --> 01:02:29,890 Speaker 1: but his statement is a rueful and moving realization that 871 01:02:30,050 --> 01:02:33,490 Speaker 1: for his wealth and fame, he made a bitterly high price. 872 01:02:34,650 --> 01:02:36,930 Speaker 1: He took the easy path, and he took the money, 873 01:02:37,050 --> 01:02:40,450 Speaker 1: and he took everything that came with it. He's immediately 874 01:02:40,450 --> 01:02:45,650 Speaker 1: fired from NBC, He's immediately fired from Columbia. He's indicted 875 01:02:45,690 --> 01:02:48,010 Speaker 1: for lying to a grand jury. Along with all the 876 01:02:48,050 --> 01:02:53,490 Speaker 1: other big winners, Van Doren never appeared as a regular 877 01:02:53,610 --> 01:02:57,610 Speaker 1: on TV again. He worked in West Coast Academics and 878 01:02:57,730 --> 01:03:01,890 Speaker 1: for the Encyclopedia Britannica Company, but never again as a 879 01:03:01,970 --> 01:03:07,330 Speaker 1: beloved public figure. The New York Times obituary for Charles 880 01:03:07,410 --> 01:03:12,530 Speaker 1: Van Doren, written in twenty nineteen, features this headline, Charles 881 01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:17,410 Speaker 1: Van Doren, a quiz show whiz who wasn't dies at 882 01:03:17,530 --> 01:03:22,770 Speaker 1: ninety three. That's it, that's his whole reputation. That's all 883 01:03:22,850 --> 01:03:24,690 Speaker 1: you get. You get to be the guy who was 884 01:03:24,730 --> 01:03:29,650 Speaker 1: a faker on TV. Compare that to this obituary headline. 885 01:03:30,650 --> 01:03:35,050 Speaker 1: Doctor Joyce Brothers, on air psychologist who made TV housecalls, 886 01:03:35,530 --> 01:03:40,250 Speaker 1: dies at eighty five. Brothers also appeared at those hearings. 887 01:03:40,770 --> 01:03:44,890 Speaker 1: She denied getting any answers, and her producers vouched for her. 888 01:03:45,890 --> 01:03:51,290 Speaker 1: She got out clean and lived the dream. Van Doren 889 01:03:51,610 --> 01:03:55,250 Speaker 1: lived with his shame for the rest of his life 890 01:03:55,970 --> 01:04:00,010 Speaker 1: for that one faithful decision, the one that would cap 891 01:04:00,130 --> 01:04:08,410 Speaker 1: his career potential forever never indicted for anything at all? 892 01:04:09,930 --> 01:04:14,490 Speaker 1: Is dan enright? Yeah, he's humiliated. Well, one of his 893 01:04:14,530 --> 01:04:17,170 Speaker 1: own theses is proven right by this whole thing. Just 894 01:04:17,290 --> 01:04:20,010 Speaker 1: after he's removed from day to day production on twenty one. 895 01:04:20,610 --> 01:04:23,250 Speaker 1: Now that Enright's not there with his cheating team and 896 01:04:23,330 --> 01:04:26,450 Speaker 1: money machine. In the four weeks they went without the 897 01:04:26,570 --> 01:04:32,170 Speaker 1: Dan Enright engine, twenty one hemorrhaged sixty thousand dollars in 898 01:04:32,290 --> 01:04:36,490 Speaker 1: prize money, way over the budget from jarital I mean 899 01:04:36,530 --> 01:04:39,170 Speaker 1: maybe you're thinking, Oh, at least baryon n Right Productions 900 01:04:39,210 --> 01:04:41,490 Speaker 1: has to write a big old check filter some of 901 01:04:41,530 --> 01:04:46,130 Speaker 1: that money back out right wrong. While Van Doren was 902 01:04:46,210 --> 01:04:50,130 Speaker 1: on his epic winning streak, NBC bought Baryon n Right 903 01:04:50,330 --> 01:04:53,010 Speaker 1: to make sure that twenty one couldn't switch networks over 904 01:04:53,050 --> 01:04:57,050 Speaker 1: to CBS. That was a two million dollar deal nineteen 905 01:04:57,050 --> 01:05:00,970 Speaker 1: fifties money. And then n Wright gets a golden parachute 906 01:05:01,050 --> 01:05:04,730 Speaker 1: to make himself scarce from NBC. When everything goes bad. 907 01:05:17,810 --> 01:05:22,290 Speaker 1: Flashed forward a few decades, Enright is in Canada, eating 908 01:05:22,370 --> 01:05:26,850 Speaker 1: weird bacon and drinking mulson ice. The only gig he 909 01:05:26,890 --> 01:05:30,290 Speaker 1: can Land is with screen Gems Canada. This is the 910 01:05:30,410 --> 01:05:34,090 Speaker 1: only American TV company that dared debase themselves in the 911 01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:38,370 Speaker 1: minor leagues of Canadian television During nights with the producers 912 01:05:38,450 --> 01:05:40,810 Speaker 1: this is at the bar after a shoot day and 913 01:05:40,970 --> 01:05:44,290 Speaker 1: write spins tales of the story of twenty one In 914 01:05:44,450 --> 01:05:48,410 Speaker 1: his version, he's the fall guy. Everybody knew what was 915 01:05:48,450 --> 01:05:53,210 Speaker 1: going on, The network knew, the sponsors, knew everyone. They 916 01:05:53,210 --> 01:05:57,210 Speaker 1: could never wrap his mind around why Stempel got so mad? 917 01:05:58,170 --> 01:06:00,650 Speaker 1: What was so wrong about making money and being famous? 918 01:06:01,410 --> 01:06:05,770 Speaker 1: And yet the answer was all around him. Why was 919 01:06:05,810 --> 01:06:10,170 Speaker 1: a talented producer like Enright in Toronto and not Los 920 01:06:10,210 --> 01:06:13,650 Speaker 1: Angeles or New York. Why was a man who used 921 01:06:13,690 --> 01:06:16,090 Speaker 1: to make shows that would be watched by tens of 922 01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:19,890 Speaker 1: millions of people and give away hundreds of thousands of 923 01:06:19,930 --> 01:06:23,570 Speaker 1: dollars making shows to be watched by a fraction of 924 01:06:23,610 --> 01:06:31,170 Speaker 1: those people reputation believe en Right or not. The result 925 01:06:31,210 --> 01:06:35,410 Speaker 1: of his shame is his exiled to Canada, far away 926 01:06:35,450 --> 01:06:40,330 Speaker 1: from the movers and shakers of real TV. Sorry Canada. 927 01:06:40,850 --> 01:06:45,770 Speaker 1: And yet eventually the game wearing alleges Kenyan lady like this, 928 01:06:46,010 --> 01:06:54,210 Speaker 1: Queen's shoulders wild, here's a host of oursel Sack Barry 929 01:06:57,410 --> 01:07:02,570 Speaker 1: and Right gets another hit right here in America. He 930 01:07:02,650 --> 01:07:07,330 Speaker 1: even brought Jack Barry back with him, and he eventually 931 01:07:07,410 --> 01:07:11,450 Speaker 1: re establishes Barry and Right right in Los Angeles. The 932 01:07:11,690 --> 01:07:16,410 Speaker 1: shame storm passed. I mean yeah, talked to some friends 933 01:07:16,450 --> 01:07:18,410 Speaker 1: at bars and maybe they wrote some of it down 934 01:07:18,490 --> 01:07:21,930 Speaker 1: after his passing, but Enright never put his own words 935 01:07:21,970 --> 01:07:24,770 Speaker 1: in a book. He did come close to doing it 936 01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:29,450 Speaker 1: in dramatic fashion too. In the early nineties, Enright gets 937 01:07:29,490 --> 01:07:33,090 Speaker 1: word that a script about his scandal is getting traction 938 01:07:33,170 --> 01:07:36,090 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. It's eventually going to become nineteen ninety four 939 01:07:36,170 --> 01:07:40,170 Speaker 1: is Quiz Show, and Enright is definitely the villain. Seeing 940 01:07:40,210 --> 01:07:43,530 Speaker 1: it coming, I have to imagine that Dan Anright, it's 941 01:07:43,570 --> 01:07:47,850 Speaker 1: all his own career cancer bomb coming, and just like me, 942 01:07:48,730 --> 01:07:51,330 Speaker 1: he has that same thought of how do I blunt 943 01:07:51,490 --> 01:07:55,650 Speaker 1: this edge? In my case, I did nothing. But Enright 944 01:07:55,730 --> 01:07:58,410 Speaker 1: puts out a press release saying that he's making his 945 01:07:58,610 --> 01:08:01,210 Speaker 1: own movie and it's going to be the real story. 946 01:08:02,650 --> 01:08:06,290 Speaker 1: The movie never gets made. Dan Enright dies in nineteen 947 01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:09,690 Speaker 1: ninety two before you ever had to sit through watching 948 01:08:10,090 --> 01:08:17,970 Speaker 1: was show. And Wright did his job. He got the readings, 949 01:08:19,450 --> 01:08:23,970 Speaker 1: but the path he took, the permanent damage he inflicted 950 01:08:24,330 --> 01:08:29,250 Speaker 1: on the lives of every contestant, the shaming he himself 951 01:08:29,490 --> 01:08:35,250 Speaker 1: engaged in to protect it. All of this might well 952 01:08:35,330 --> 01:08:55,410 Speaker 1: be the World's Greatest con. This episode of World's Greatest 953 01:08:55,450 --> 01:08:59,210 Speaker 1: Con was written by Justin Robert Young and me Brian Brushwood, 954 01:08:59,450 --> 01:09:03,130 Speaker 1: your humble host. Production and research by Dog and Pony 955 01:09:03,170 --> 01:09:07,930 Speaker 1: Show Audio in Austin, Texas. Credit to Primetime and Misdemeanors 956 01:09:08,010 --> 01:09:12,530 Speaker 1: by Joseph Stone and Tim Jone, as well as television fraud, 957 01:09:12,850 --> 01:09:16,170 Speaker 1: The History and Implication of the quiz Shows Scandals by 958 01:09:16,250 --> 01:09:20,730 Speaker 1: Ken Anderson, which along with contemporary news articles, retrospectives, and 959 01:09:21,050 --> 01:09:24,570 Speaker 1: archive video made for the bulk of our research. Additional 960 01:09:24,690 --> 01:09:28,610 Speaker 1: research by Rachel Oppenheimer. Of course, you guys have questions 961 01:09:28,650 --> 01:09:30,370 Speaker 1: and we want to answer all of them at the 962 01:09:30,450 --> 01:09:32,650 Speaker 1: end of the season, So get yours in by hitting 963 01:09:32,730 --> 01:09:36,690 Speaker 1: us up at World's Greatest con at gmail dot com. 964 01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:40,330 Speaker 1: So we just heard a story about a TV game show. 965 01:09:40,770 --> 01:09:44,290 Speaker 1: We found out that beneath that family friendly veneer there's 966 01:09:44,290 --> 01:09:48,890 Speaker 1: a very cutthroat world in which some very colorful will 967 01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:52,770 Speaker 1: say characters are attracted. I'm here to tell you that 968 01:09:52,850 --> 01:09:56,770 Speaker 1: the story of twenty one isn't an outlier. In fact, 969 01:09:56,850 --> 01:09:59,690 Speaker 1: we're going to spend this whole season hanging around six 970 01:09:59,810 --> 01:10:02,530 Speaker 1: different stories. We get to see the man screwing over 971 01:10:02,610 --> 01:10:05,210 Speaker 1: the little guy, the little guy sticking one to the man, 972 01:10:05,770 --> 01:10:10,730 Speaker 1: truly awful people competing honestly, the honest ones ruining their 973 01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:15,290 Speaker 1: lives for the sake of greed. We're gonna see federal 974 01:10:15,370 --> 01:10:18,130 Speaker 1: agents burst through a door and find a hardened criminal 975 01:10:18,290 --> 01:10:21,290 Speaker 1: shivering on top of a bathroom stall, a room of 976 01:10:21,410 --> 01:10:27,050 Speaker 1: professionals wondering if a clever hoodlum just bankrupted their whole company, 977 01:10:28,130 --> 01:10:31,970 Speaker 1: and we'll see a mysterious extraction so brazen that people 978 01:10:32,250 --> 01:10:36,610 Speaker 1: still in the industry are left convinced they've been made 979 01:10:36,730 --> 01:10:40,050 Speaker 1: fools of in front of the entire nation by a 980 01:10:40,210 --> 01:10:45,450 Speaker 1: single bitter ex employee. These are shows you've heard of, 981 01:10:45,650 --> 01:10:49,010 Speaker 1: stories about super password who wants to be a millionaire 982 01:10:49,210 --> 01:10:53,690 Speaker 1: the price is right. Game shows are an irresistible lure 983 01:10:53,890 --> 01:10:56,850 Speaker 1: for anybody whose ears perk up when the idea of 984 01:10:57,010 --> 01:11:01,370 Speaker 1: free money quick is brought up, suckers and con men both. 985 01:11:02,730 --> 01:11:05,170 Speaker 1: You probably know that the story you just heard is 986 01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:09,330 Speaker 1: dramatized in the nineteen ninety four movie Quis Shore. It 987 01:11:09,450 --> 01:11:11,890 Speaker 1: was a bit of a sensation back then, got nominated 988 01:11:11,970 --> 01:11:15,210 Speaker 1: for a Best Picture Oscar and during all of that 989 01:11:15,610 --> 01:11:20,810 Speaker 1: buzz that led to one morning show appearance where they 990 01:11:20,850 --> 01:11:24,970 Speaker 1: were looking for similar stories of similar game show dramas. 991 01:11:25,930 --> 01:11:28,370 Speaker 1: And while it isn't the famous quiz show scandal, that's 992 01:11:28,410 --> 01:11:30,970 Speaker 1: playing in theaters. It is a story worthy of the 993 01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:34,570 Speaker 1: big screen. And I determined that there was some sort 994 01:11:34,610 --> 01:11:37,250 Speaker 1: of pattern. Not easily. It took six months from you 995 01:11:37,330 --> 01:11:40,530 Speaker 1: to actually work at all the patterns. But I wanted 996 01:11:40,570 --> 01:11:43,970 Speaker 1: to shoot the moon, so to speaking, I decided definitely 997 01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:48,730 Speaker 1: I would go for a hundred thousand. That's Michael Larsen. 998 01:11:49,970 --> 01:11:53,090 Speaker 1: We just heard the story of a powerful producer fleecing 999 01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:56,650 Speaker 1: good people. Next week, we're going to hear about the 1000 01:11:56,770 --> 01:12:00,850 Speaker 1: exact opposite, a devious mind whose thirst for those angles 1001 01:12:00,890 --> 01:12:06,250 Speaker 1: that would give him quick cash knew no bounds. Through ingenuity, deception, 1002 01:12:06,410 --> 01:12:09,290 Speaker 1: and good old fashioned practice, he's going to rack up 1003 01:12:09,450 --> 01:12:12,090 Speaker 1: so much money on a TV game show that some 1004 01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:15,650 Speaker 1: people in the control room worry that he's about to 1005 01:12:15,970 --> 01:12:23,850 Speaker 1: bankrupt the network. That's next time on World's Greatest Gone 1006 01:12:27,370 --> 01:12:34,210 Speaker 1: Fireman Club. Hopes you have enjoyed this Brower Dog and 1007 01:12:34,330 --> 01:12:35,290 Speaker 1: Pony Show audio