Speaker 1: Some of the best sex obviously are anonymous. Sex can
Speaker 1: be with some of the worst people, and you're literally
Speaker 1: taking on that juju and it takes a long time
Speaker 1: to clear. Like in my book of the book I
Speaker 1: just gave you Sex, Health and Consciousness, I tell people
Speaker 1: to say stage their genitals.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh they're generals. Oh my god, I'll do that.
Speaker 1: Just stand up and show you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, please please. You know what, this is a safe
Speaker 2: space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now let
Speaker 2: me tell you something messy.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the show. Okay, so if you've
Speaker 2: been here for a while, you know that the opening
Speaker 2: used to say, you know what we do here destroytioning
Speaker 2: around sex by talking about sex. But you know we
Speaker 2: are about what is it? So we started in September,
Speaker 2: I Tobe of November December, during your February March. We
Speaker 2: are about six months, almost seven months into doing this podcast,
Speaker 2: and it's it's become clear that we do a lot
Speaker 2: more than just talk about sex. Now, sex may be
Speaker 2: our entry point, but as you you know, we talk
Speaker 2: about relationships, we talk about family, we talk about dating,
Speaker 2: we talk about identity, we talk about so many things.
Speaker 2: And so I wanted to update the show description and
Speaker 2: opening to reflect that that, yes, we do talk about
Speaker 2: sex because we host here, but there's so much more.
Speaker 2: So let me read you what the new description of
Speaker 2: the show. We'll say, here we go, It's time for
Speaker 2: a messy key key about relationships, love and sex. Tell
Speaker 2: Me Something Messy is an educational comedy podcast hosted by writer, actor,
Speaker 2: and sexual mental wellness advocate Brandon Kyle Goodman, henceforth known
Speaker 2: as Messy Mom. Come On, Eating, Eating Eating. Each week,
Speaker 2: Messy patrons are invited to leave perfectionism at the door
Speaker 2: and wad into the wild, wonderful world of dating, drama, pleasure, pursuits,
Speaker 2: and communication breakthroughs. With Messy Mom activated, BKG steers the
Speaker 2: key key as unfiltered guests and callers unpack entanglements and
Speaker 2: embrace their truth. Tell Me Something Messy is a no
Speaker 2: judgment zone where communication is currency and showing up fully
Speaker 2: is law. Bitch that eats, Listen that eats. If you've
Speaker 2: been here, you know that it is literally what we do.
Speaker 2: And those are all the tenants and the comeponents, honey,
Speaker 2: come oponents of this show. So I'm excited to have
Speaker 2: the update and also I see that y'all have been
Speaker 2: rating and reviewing, and I'm so so appreciative. Like I said,
Speaker 2: that really helps us expand the show and grow the show.
Speaker 2: So if you haven't done so already, please please please rate, review, subscribe.
Speaker 2: You can just leave a quick review that says I
Speaker 2: love a show, I love Brandon, the show's the shit
Speaker 2: whatever it is, Okay, it really helps the show. So
Speaker 2: we're at like I think, one hundred and sixty or
Speaker 2: something reviews and ratings. So you know we're going to
Speaker 2: do a new goal. I say, by the end of April.
Speaker 2: So we got a little over a month, honey, by
Speaker 2: the end of April, can we get to two hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty? That's so specific. One hundred more reviews and ratings.
Speaker 2: Two hundred and sixty reviews and ratings. So if you
Speaker 2: have it yet, baby, go ahead and give us some
Speaker 2: five stars, write a little this show is everything, and
Speaker 2: follow the show again. It helps so much. Now all
Speaker 2: that said, I'm gonna give you this whole like we're
Speaker 2: expanding what the show does here. It's not just about sex,
Speaker 2: it's relationships, identity, and it's love. But today we won't
Speaker 2: really talking about sex down we'll talk about other things too,
Speaker 2: But my guest today is incredible and maybe you know
Speaker 2: what that means. It's time for a guess now why
Speaker 2: they get situated? We'll get our messy. Kikey started with
Speaker 2: a how manifesto repeat after me aloud or in your head.
Speaker 2: Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage
Speaker 2: to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not
Speaker 2: just about penetration, The audacity to advocate for my pleasure
Speaker 2: and boundaries. The strength to not call my ex that
Speaker 2: fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck bay, for it is
Speaker 2: better to masturbate by myself in peace than to let
Speaker 2: someone play in my motherfuckerr face that the community say hoolujah.
Speaker 2: I am so excited to have Liz Goldwyn on the show.
Speaker 2: Liz Goldwyn is an author, filmmaker, and the founder of
Speaker 2: the sex Ed, an educational platform dedicated to sex health
Speaker 2: and consciousness. Liz is the writer and director of the
Speaker 2: documentary Pretty Things. She's also the author of the non
Speaker 2: fiction book Pretty Things, The Last Generation of American Burlesque Queens,
Speaker 2: and the novel Sporting Guide based on original historical research.
Speaker 2: Liz is now writing a weekly autobiographical substat called Starfucker,
Speaker 2: an expose of our cultural obsession with celebrity and a
Speaker 2: loving tribute to growing up Hollywood Royalty. Y'all please help me.
Speaker 2: Welcome Liz Goldwyn.
Speaker 1: Hi wool Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Thank you for me here. We're like internet friends, and
Speaker 2: so we're meeting for the first time.
Speaker 1: We're Internet and substack friends.
Speaker 2: Substack friends. Yes, and we know some of the same
Speaker 2: people we do. You interviewed my bosses, my former bosses
Speaker 2: from big Mouth.
Speaker 1: That's right, I did. I interviewed them for the Sex
Speaker 1: Said podcast. Yes, and we're substack friends.
Speaker 2: We're subsack friends. Your subsack has my favorite my favorite day,
Speaker 2: star fucker. Mine is just messy Monday. But I love
Speaker 2: the title star Fucker. We're going to get into all
Speaker 2: of it. We'll talk about but before we do that,
Speaker 2: let's do our messy mandate. So the messy mandates for
Speaker 2: a messy key key is that things get to be
Speaker 2: on process. Any thoughts or opinions shared have their right
Speaker 2: to evolve, shift, or change today, tomorrow or ten years
Speaker 2: from now. And if during the conversation anything unintentionally of
Speaker 2: friends or we need to like, take a moment. We
Speaker 2: just say that safe word foosball, and it gives us
Speaker 2: all booze ball, gives us a chance to stop pause, pivot.
Speaker 1: Okay, got it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, dope, amazing. Okay, shall we start with alue breaker.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, let's loop.
Speaker 2: Always use loop. Okay, So we're gonna play. Come on,
Speaker 2: don't go too fast. You can go fast after after
Speaker 2: we started, after we.
Speaker 1: Get started exactly.
Speaker 2: So loop breaker, smash or pass. I'll give you a
Speaker 2: problem and smash you pass it. So smash your pass.
Speaker 1: Hair pulling, hair pulling, I'm not I'm down for a
Speaker 1: little hair pulling. Yeah, I don't usually so, like unless
Speaker 1: I have four brothers and so when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: that's usually how the fight would end. That hair pulling,
Speaker 1: the bedroom, bedroom hair pulling. I'm more into like a
Speaker 1: tender yeah, and more into a spank.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you like a handspank of paddle spank.
Speaker 1: I like a handspank. Okay, I like some handspanking more
Speaker 1: than the hair pulling. But like, I'm not mad at
Speaker 1: the hair pulling.
Speaker 2: I like a little I like a little hair pulling,
Speaker 2: but has to be with somebody specific because you know,
Speaker 2: I was showing everybody up in my hair like that,
Speaker 2: so it has to be like my partner. I don't one.
Speaker 2: Sometimes my hair is longer and they can do it.
Speaker 2: Right now it's a little shorter, they can't do it.
Speaker 2: But I'm always scared to hair pull although I do have.
Speaker 2: I did have one partner who loves hair pool and
Speaker 2: like doesn't have a tender head, so he likes And
Speaker 2: I'm turned on when my partner's turned on. So like
Speaker 2: the heart of the poll, he like the moment.
Speaker 1: The harder the the harder they come.
Speaker 2: It's just brand smash or pass a finger in your
Speaker 2: mouth or fingers in your mouth.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at a finger in the mouth, I said,
Speaker 1: smash that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also really like biting lips. Oh yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I have my lip bit it's hot.
Speaker 2: It's hot. That does so hot. I feel like I've
Speaker 2: seen it on TV, Like you know, you buy your
Speaker 2: own lip. I think that's hot. On somebody bites their
Speaker 2: own lip, Yeah, that so sexy. But biting your partner's lip,
Speaker 2: I haven't done that.
Speaker 1: Little love bite I love.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try that. I would definitely I smash finger
Speaker 2: in the mouth. There's something like so fairal and primal
Speaker 2: when you're like hot and sweaty, and then like you're
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, it's everything.
Speaker 1: Okay, we love some fair We love to.
Speaker 2: Me like, that's where I want my sex to be. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: I want it to be like sweaty and nasty and
Speaker 2: like we can do whatever we want conventually and respectfully
Speaker 2: smash the past, public play.
Speaker 1: Public play. I mean, I guess like a light like PDA,
Speaker 1: but I'm not I'm not an exhibitionist.
Speaker 2: That's fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair. Not really, although I have erotic a
Speaker 1: lot of erotic fantasies involving libraries.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me one of them?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm an author and I've written a
Speaker 1: few books, and I just have this fantasy about like
Speaker 1: a hot professor and like, you know, the rare book
Speaker 1: room at the at the library.
Speaker 2: Rare book room, yes, being like.
Speaker 1: Pressed up against these like dusty books.
Speaker 2: I feel like my husband, my husband who loves books
Speaker 2: and like our houses, our apartners like filled with books,
Speaker 2: would have this fantasy as well. Yeah, I mean his
Speaker 2: dream is still have like the Beauty and the Beast library.
Speaker 1: Essentially a library ladder. Yeah, like an overstuffed leather chair
Speaker 1: or absolutely fireplace.
Speaker 2: Going and then maybe like a little secret passage one
Speaker 2: of the bookshelves. Absolutely to your sex room. Absolutely, I'm
Speaker 2: into this. I what do I feel about public play.
Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to it. I love it when it
Speaker 2: is in the context of like a sex party or
Speaker 2: a dark room or like you know, places where we're
Speaker 2: like this is happening, yeah, as opposed to like we're
Speaker 2: just driving down the street and you're like, let's pull
Speaker 2: over and do something that. I always get scared about
Speaker 2: getting caught. I like it to be I haven't.
Speaker 1: I've done that once, Yeah, in West Hollywood with an author,
Speaker 1: actually a novelist, with a hot novelist, Yeah, who had
Speaker 1: in a parked car on the street I lived on,
Speaker 1: which I won't name, but it's really near the Chateau Marmont,
Speaker 1: and like just pulled over on the street with like
Speaker 1: the windows of the car all fogged up, and it
Speaker 1: was honestly so hot. It was super hot.
Speaker 2: One of my only uh a couple of well, one
Speaker 2: of my only public places was West Hollywood, which was
Speaker 2: which was in the alleyway. Wasn't as cute as a car,
Speaker 2: but it was an alleyway, and then I think I
Speaker 2: also sucked behind another bar on the east side. There's
Speaker 2: something about these alleyways and these garages and these Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, when we've we've had enough drinks, you know,
Speaker 2: snipped a couple of poppers, You're like, let's let's do it.
Speaker 2: Do it. Lizzy won the gang. My unconditional congratulations, patrons
Speaker 2: and hoes. If you have a loop breaker ideas or
Speaker 2: messy prompts or messy stories, you can email me at
Speaker 2: tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. Speaking up, Liz,
Speaker 2: can you tell me something messy?
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna tell you something real messy. I love
Speaker 1: it that when we first met and I did a
Speaker 1: pece you interviewed me for your sub stack, I told
Speaker 1: you that I had just had a really bad breakup.
Speaker 1: Yes you did, Okay. So I discovered in this breakup
Speaker 1: that this person that I loved and had been involved
Speaker 1: with for about six years a little bit, some of
Speaker 1: it off and on, but mostly on. I stopped counting
Speaker 1: after I discovered the twenty eighth different, the twenty eighth
Speaker 1: sugar baby, he and did those calculated calculations in my
Speaker 1: head while he was sleeping in my bed. By the way,
Speaker 1: is when I discovered this. Wait wait, hello, okay discover
Speaker 1: We were at dinner. I was feeling really stuck in
Speaker 1: the relationship, and I literally like prayed to my guides
Speaker 1: and my ancestors, please give me a message, Please give
Speaker 1: me a sign, Please give me some guidance, like what
Speaker 1: I do in this relationship. Sure, And I was in
Speaker 1: La I was flying back to Hawaii in the morning.
Speaker 1: I hadn't gotten a message, and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: we're feeling stuck. I was feeling stuck. We're out to dinner,
Speaker 1: sharing a plate of oysters, and he says to me,
Speaker 1: do you think your father was a sex addict? He
Speaker 1: says this. At dinner, we're like talking about my dad. Well,
Speaker 1: my dad. You know, my dad was actually arrested for
Speaker 1: soliciting sex worker when I was like an infant, and
Speaker 1: he knew this, like he knew all my stuff around
Speaker 1: like monogamy, Like you know, we're in a monogamous relationship.
Speaker 1: Like we're talking really openly all the time about sex.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course that's what you and I do.
Speaker 1: So you I think establishing that trust in a relationship
Speaker 1: is so important. So maybe you do want to be
Speaker 1: polyamorous or whatever. But you talk about it, you don't communication. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he knew I had all these, like, you know,
Speaker 1: trauma from my dad being this way or women. So
Speaker 1: he says this to me, and I kind of put
Speaker 1: it in the back of my head. I said, that's
Speaker 1: an odd question to ask. Then we get home. We're
Speaker 1: watching a movie and I want to google something about
Speaker 1: the actor and he hands me his phone and he's
Speaker 1: not precious with you know, his past code or anything.
Speaker 1: So I type it in looking it up. We're lying
Speaker 1: there together and a number, a number comes up, this
Speaker 1: note and then two hearts pop up, and he snatches
Speaker 1: the phone out of my hand and swipes it up
Speaker 1: so fast. So I was like. We go to bed,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, fuck, I'm leaving in the morning. I
Speaker 1: got to take a look at the phone. And I'm
Speaker 1: not the type to do this. I don't even want
Speaker 1: to be the type, like I feel like it's not
Speaker 1: sexy to be you.
Speaker 2: Know, sure, but that moment makes you go.
Speaker 1: So he fall, he passes out. I go and I
Speaker 1: open up the phone and it's like, well, first of all,
Speaker 1: that first girl, Teresa two hearts. Sure there were photos
Speaker 1: that she sent him. So since we went to bed,
Speaker 1: more more text came through from that number, photos of
Speaker 1: them on a hike that morning with his dogs. No, no, no, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I keep scrolling back, scrolling back, and I see, like,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, explicit sexting, et cetera. She's found another
Speaker 1: girl for them to party with. I scroll all the
Speaker 1: way back from the beginning and they've met off seeking arrangements,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's like a sugar Daddy sugar baby website. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I go back to the very beginning and there
Speaker 1: he's like saying what he pays per you know, what
Speaker 1: he generally pays per week or per month or whatever.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, while I'm looking through this text
Speaker 1: from another girl comes through. Scroll back to the beginning
Speaker 1: of that. That one he hasn't even saved the name
Speaker 1: in the phone, and they're just like negotiating to me.
Speaker 1: Keep I was like, a fuck, if there's only two
Speaker 1: in this last like twenty minutes. I keep going through
Speaker 1: the phone. It was like I lost count about twenty
Speaker 1: eight different women. But it was all you know, repeated,
Speaker 1: like cut, copy and paste the language. Yeah, what he's
Speaker 1: looking for? Copy and paste the photos that he was using,
Speaker 1: which were like fucking outdated selfies. Also, he said, some
Speaker 1: of these girls photos of the view from my house
Speaker 1: in Hawaii on my fucking birthday, on my fucking birthday,
Speaker 1: which is Christmas Day. No, while he was saying with me,
Speaker 1: and it had gotten like really, you know, it was
Speaker 1: almost like the last in the last you know, few months,
Speaker 1: it had gotten out of control, like a mania with it.
Speaker 1: So I start calculating in my head how much money
Speaker 1: he's spending, and it's like he doesn't even remember anything
Speaker 1: about these women. He left one woman he like arranged
Speaker 1: a date where she had a she was a single mom,
Speaker 1: got childcare. He just didn't show up. My god, you know,
Speaker 1: just like he was messy. He was messy, so I knew.
Speaker 1: So I then I go back to bed and I
Speaker 1: just so I didn't sleep. I lay in bed, thinking
Speaker 1: he's gonna lie to me if I if I, you know,
Speaker 1: ask him about this. I just laid him. I got
Speaker 1: the message. I got a lot of that. So I'm
Speaker 1: laying in bed and I'm thinking, you know, and then
Speaker 1: I start convincing myself. I start gaslighting myself, like did
Speaker 1: I make this up? Did this really? Because I was
Speaker 1: so shocking, Like I thought this person was one of
Speaker 1: my best friends. And we had literally just had a
Speaker 1: conversation two days before where I said, I don't think
Speaker 1: that we're meant to be together. What do you think
Speaker 1: about dating other people? No, I don't want to date
Speaker 1: anyone else. I'm barely even masturbating, I swear to God,
Speaker 1: I swear to God. I said, what do you think
Speaker 1: about me dating other people? No, I wouldn't like that.
Speaker 1: That would really be hard for me. But I would
Speaker 1: understand if you're really frustrated with me. Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: this is the only saving grace. He'd been having ed
Speaker 1: problems you and I was really patient with it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, let's find you a doctor, and like
Speaker 1: all this stuff. I was trying to be really like,
Speaker 1: you know, comforting and supportive and all these sayings. So
Speaker 1: thankfully we weren't really having penetrative sexy thank god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like time period because.
Speaker 2: You don't Yeah, there's no yeah, your health, your health, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He was definitely not using production with these women.
Speaker 1: And anyways, so I was like lying in bed in
Speaker 1: the morning, he got up before me. I'm I'm told him.
Speaker 1: I know, I made it I was like, I need
Speaker 1: one more look at the phone, just to make sure
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy. So maybe I made this up. Maybe
Speaker 1: I was dreaming. I don't know, maybe this was all
Speaker 1: a bad dream. So he gets in the shower peek
Speaker 1: at the phone one more time, and I see no, no,
Speaker 1: I was right. I make an Excu's supposed to take
Speaker 1: me to the airport to lax. I make an excuse. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot I have therapy, Like, can you give me
Speaker 1: space for an hour? So he leaves. I call one
Speaker 1: of my best guy friends who lives in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: He comes over. We take a walk. I'm sobbing. I'm like,
Speaker 1: can you take me the airport? Yes? And I attacked
Speaker 1: this ax and I say, oh, something came up in therapy.
Speaker 1: I need time to process. I got a ride get
Speaker 1: to the airport. And by this time, I'm so upset
Speaker 1: and I'm so pissed. And also remember I've done the
Speaker 1: calculations in my head now why he's spending and it's
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Like I calculated that he's spent
Speaker 1: at least sixty thousand dollars in like the last four
Speaker 1: to five months. I know, so and remember the language
Speaker 1: is repeated over and over again, all these texts on
Speaker 1: how much what he he says he'll like pay per
Speaker 1: month for rent or whatever. So this is what I did.
Speaker 1: Right before I got on the plane. I sent him
Speaker 1: a VENMO request for twenty seven hundred dollars with the
Speaker 1: note I heard this is the going rate for seeking
Speaker 1: arrangements plus the therapy I'm going to need to process this.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just came to me. It came
Speaker 1: to me. Okay, this motherfucker paid it, and I have
Speaker 1: not spoken to him since, so I've had no closure.
Speaker 1: It's about to be like in a couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: it's about to be like a year of me finding
Speaker 1: this out. And my heart is honestly still tender, like
Speaker 1: I've had to really move like molasses with anyone else
Speaker 1: because I just feel so so shocked. He paid it.
Speaker 1: Haven't heard from him since I changed his name to
Speaker 1: sick fuck in my phone, and I wrote I wrote
Speaker 1: about this on my substack. But after like six months,
Speaker 1: and it's called revenge is a dish best serve cold.
Speaker 2: We are going to put this in the show notes,
Speaker 2: and I really go into detail because it's actually funny
Speaker 2: some of the stuff, and I, you know what, honestly
Speaker 2: taking his money made me feel bonded to these women,
Speaker 2: to the sugar baby.
Speaker 1: For me, because it made me feel you know, there
Speaker 1: was one moment, there was a brief moment where I
Speaker 1: felt empowered by taking his money, and I thought, fuck,
Speaker 1: I should have charged him more. And I started imagining
Speaker 1: in my head like, oh, if he wants to talk
Speaker 1: to me, to like, you know, try to apologize or
Speaker 1: speak his mind, I'm in charge him a thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a minute, yeah, you know, for a call. And then
Speaker 1: you know, I realized, you know, that wouldn't actually make
Speaker 1: me feel better. But there was one moment where I
Speaker 1: felt like, yeah, empowered by taking the money and bonded
Speaker 1: with these other women. I'm kind of glad that they
Speaker 1: were taking advantage of him too. My first book and
Speaker 1: film called Pretty Things, was about the last generation of
Speaker 1: American blessed queens and the advent of strip tease. So
Speaker 1: these were like the big star blessed stars of the
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties and forties, and when I was making that work,
Speaker 1: they were in their seventies and eighties, right, And I
Speaker 1: was when I started that work I was eighteen, I
Speaker 1: was married really young. I met my ex husband when
Speaker 1: I was eighteen turning nineteen. So I had this like
Speaker 1: sexual coming of age through these strippers in their seventies
Speaker 1: and eighties when I was in my early twenties, Like
Speaker 1: they were teaching me about men, yes, and they a
Speaker 1: lot of them were, you know, did sex work and
Speaker 1: stuff on the sides, and they really I felt like
Speaker 1: I never had the chance in my life to be
Speaker 1: a sugar baby or I don't know, I was just not,
Speaker 1: I guess not wired like to have those kind of
Speaker 1: like financial relationships with men. And I almost felt like
Speaker 1: I missed out. And so because I have a lot
Speaker 1: of friends too or did that and like you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of friends me too, or like sugar babies
Speaker 1: and it sounds fabulous, I'm like, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars in cash, like for a dinner and
Speaker 1: you don't even have to do anything, like let's go shopping.
Speaker 1: My second book is about sex, vice and sex work
Speaker 1: in la in eighteen ninety seven, called Sporting Guide. So
Speaker 1: it's a subject that like really interests me. And as
Speaker 1: I told you, my father, you know, was he was
Speaker 1: a total playboy, he was arrested for soliciting a sex
Speaker 1: worker when I was an infant, And so sex work
Speaker 1: has been a theme in my work and in my
Speaker 1: personal life, and so to me going through this personal experience,
Speaker 1: like I have a lot of friends who are sex workers.
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of research on the history of
Speaker 1: sex work in all different cultures and time periods, and
Speaker 1: especially in Los Angeles. Yeah, and of course Sean Baker,
Speaker 1: who directed Anora, I've known him for a long time Tangerine.
Speaker 1: His film Tangerine, Yes I Love is brilliant. If it's
Speaker 1: young and seen it, it's shot on iPhone, it's it
Speaker 1: takes place in Los Angeles. Yeah, as is also set
Speaker 1: in the world of sex work. Yeah. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think having this personal experience where I was, you know,
Speaker 1: because I had all this like I don't want to say,
Speaker 1: like intellectual or academic or like observer experience of sex work,
Speaker 1: but then having the experience of like taking his money
Speaker 1: and being and I was so hurt. I was so
Speaker 1: destroyed by this. I really did feel I could understand
Speaker 1: why you would feel, like why all these women I
Speaker 1: loved and even had learned from in burlesque felt, you know,
Speaker 1: empowered by it, and I was like, Oh, if this
Speaker 1: wasn't a person that I knew well and that I loved,
Speaker 1: and I was doing it for revenge, I would so
Speaker 1: get off on this. I was so good.
Speaker 2: There's something so I think that we're taught to be
Speaker 2: ashamed of it, but so I forget how people have
Speaker 2: phrased it. But it's like you have sex with some
Speaker 2: of the crappiest people for no money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so might as well get And also, you know,
Speaker 1: I've always wondered, like, what is really the difference between
Speaker 1: being a trophy wife? Talk about it, you know, because
Speaker 1: you know, at least you have freedom when you're when
Speaker 1: you're doing it in the way like a sugar baby,
Speaker 1: for example, your own business. You're your own business. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't have to get locked down with some like
Speaker 1: old dude and they have to like sit there while
Speaker 1: he entertailing eating a chicken dinner and some like air
Speaker 1: conditioned ballroom like his boring corporate colleagues, you know, and
Speaker 1: like while you're cause playing child wife, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't have to pop out the kids for them. You
Speaker 1: don't have to like you know, be on the pta
Speaker 1: board or whatever. Right, you just get to be the
Speaker 1: like fun one, you know that like go shop with
Speaker 1: his money. Yeah, there is.
Speaker 2: Something quite far more empowering about that version that situation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you set what your price is, you set what the
Speaker 2: dynamics are, you set what the expectations are, and then
Speaker 2: you don't have to be attached to it. You don't
Speaker 2: have to be attached to their whole life because because
Speaker 2: part of the kink I think for the sugar Daddy.
Speaker 1: Is being able to pay for this guy for my
Speaker 1: ex Yeah, it was like but here's the thing, I
Speaker 1: knew his business was in trouble, so I'm like, you
Speaker 1: are fucking messy as bus and speaking of Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was an addiction. And that's the thing is that
Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that would have been I
Speaker 1: loved him and I cared about him as a friend.
Speaker 1: So if he had been honest with me and I
Speaker 1: gave him so many opportunities to I would have maybe
Speaker 1: not I would have had the choice to like stay
Speaker 1: with him or not, but I would have still accepted
Speaker 1: him and I would still have like held space for
Speaker 1: him in my life, just not as as a partner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean when you talk about like you know, the
Speaker 1: sex work being not attached to it. It's never obviously
Speaker 1: we know, nothing with sex is ever that simple or
Speaker 1: black and white, right, because there is I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of us, especially if we're like a heteronormative
Speaker 1: woman being penetrated. Yeah, there's a psychic impact of being
Speaker 1: of having penetrate trade of sex or like you're literally
Speaker 1: taking on someone else's energy.
Speaker 2: I always say that, Like I say that for bulbo
Speaker 2: owners and for bottoms, right, Like, if somebody is coming
Speaker 2: in inside you, there's no matter what, there's energy. There's
Speaker 2: energy exchange, even if you were even if you were
Speaker 2: the penis owner, Like, there is an energy exchange. And
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like, especially in sort of the gay
Speaker 2: male community, we dismiss that. Yeah, it's like I'm not
Speaker 2: saying you can't have your anonymous sex, but I do
Speaker 2: think there's there is value and importance in having intentional
Speaker 2: sex because of that exchange, because of that energetic exchange
Speaker 2: that is absolutely happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I fully believe in intentional sex personally,
Speaker 1: and I think probably maybe more in your community. It's
Speaker 1: because man are conditioned to think of sex as disposable
Speaker 1: and like absolutely be cut off from it. From your spirituality.
Speaker 1: But I really do believe that that is one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is one. And you know there some of the
Speaker 1: best sex, obviously are anonymous. Sex can be with some
Speaker 1: of the worst people, and you're literally taking on that
Speaker 1: juju and it takes a long time to clear. Like
Speaker 1: in my book of the book I just gave you, Yeah, Sex,
Speaker 1: Health and Consciousness, I tell people to say stage their genitals, like.
Speaker 2: Oh they're generals. Oh my god, I'll do.
Speaker 1: That, stand up and yeah please please like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: not too close, not too close, or you put it
Speaker 1: in a metal bowl like smoke. Have the stage in
Speaker 1: a metal bowl and kind of stand over it naked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you should shage your stage, your armpits,
Speaker 1: rand your everywhere. But yeah, you know, I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I had I had somebody. I had somebody at my
Speaker 2: apartment and we were fooling around and they left, and
Speaker 2: I the energy shift was so apparent, like I couldn't sleep.
Speaker 2: I had to get out of bed. I told my
Speaker 2: best friend I'd get out of bed and sage everything
Speaker 2: because I just could feel that the end, like I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I think I just I think that
Speaker 2: they had a darker energy and I and I felt
Speaker 2: like I took it on and I was unsettled. Had
Speaker 2: to like sage the incense, talk to my grandmother.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and also like bath with salt. Bath is good.
Speaker 1: We're like just washing your hands all the way up
Speaker 1: to your elbows, even if you just even it's not sexual,
Speaker 1: youre like meet someone. And I think we're in a
Speaker 1: time right now, like in the world, in this country
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, where there's a lot of shadow
Speaker 1: and a lot of darkness, and so we need to
Speaker 1: be even more intentional with our energy because we need
Speaker 1: to stay looking towards the light in order to be
Speaker 1: of service and of feeling and to be able to
Speaker 1: resist with our art and our and our podcasts and
Speaker 1: our words and everything that we do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to, like, I want to ask a
Speaker 2: couple of things, and we'll do mess email and all
Speaker 2: that stuff. But I want we're on this trains. I
Speaker 2: want to like keep going with it, which is one
Speaker 2: What are the ways for people to raise their awareness
Speaker 2: about themselves? You know, people who are listening, you know,
Speaker 2: I said the show is for the most novice hoe
Speaker 2: and the most experienced, so so people who are trying
Speaker 2: to begin raising their awareness about their body and the
Speaker 2: energetic power their body has. Like, what are the ways
Speaker 2: to start you get in touch with that?
Speaker 1: Okay, So the whole premise of my last book, Sex
Speaker 1: Health and Consciousness, is very much about looking at your
Speaker 1: sexuality as your spiritual energy, your sexual energy, and your
Speaker 1: creative energy. Your mana, your prana, your chi. If you've
Speaker 1: ever heard those terms, yeah, chi and prana you might
Speaker 1: hear in yoga or mana is like the Hawaiian word
Speaker 1: for it. It's like your energy, your power. Your sexual
Speaker 1: energy is your power, and it's not just something that
Speaker 1: you do with another person or when your doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: always have to do a sex. Sexual athletes, for example,
Speaker 1: they won't often masturbate or have sex before a big
Speaker 1: game because we know, right, you've heard that. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: because the sexual energy is really powerful, right, and so
Speaker 1: you can use it to manifest same thing. Apparently Shakespeare
Speaker 1: used to refrain from sex when he was like writing
Speaker 1: us on it. We know that motherfucker.
Speaker 2: Sentence exactly sentence something.
Speaker 1: And May West he was like a famous fem fatale
Speaker 1: and also a screenwriter. She also the same, and she
Speaker 1: was like known to be having multiple lovers in her eighties.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't preclude you from being like sexually active
Speaker 1: or sexually liberated. It just you know understand how to
Speaker 1: harness it and how and how to be intentional with it,
Speaker 1: and you under so so that then you have the choice,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people, I particularly see
Speaker 1: this with straight women. They they are like they feel
Speaker 1: like they need to be they feel like being liberated
Speaker 1: sexuality means like being super casual about it and not caring.
Speaker 1: And then it's yes, it takes a toll. So yeah,
Speaker 1: So I think understanding first, like it's like kind of
Speaker 1: like your body is a temple idea. That doesn't mean abstinate,
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean any of that. It just means and
Speaker 1: I think we should teaching this to kids.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: It means like self esteem, self love, understand how to
Speaker 1: pleasure yourself first. I cannot tell you how many relationships
Speaker 1: I've been in, even including with that one, because I
Speaker 1: didn't value myself enough, you know, even as an adult
Speaker 1: asked divorced woman, like, I did not value myself enough,
Speaker 1: and I allowed my feelings of like insecurity or loneliness
Speaker 1: or lack mean that like somehow having sex with this
Speaker 1: hot person make me whole, would make me feel better
Speaker 1: about myself. And so I think that like the more
Speaker 1: that you can kind of get intentional with that energy
Speaker 1: and move from that place, you'll see your whole life
Speaker 1: opening up.
Speaker 2: I think that that is such a know some people
Speaker 2: are listening are struggling with that, where you have sex
Speaker 2: with somebody so that you could or you get in
Speaker 2: relationship with somebody so that you can point to them
Speaker 2: and say, there's my worth, there's my value, Like I'm
Speaker 2: valuable because this person wants me, because this person wants
Speaker 2: to marry me, this person wants to fuck me. And
Speaker 2: it distracts us from doing the real work, which is
Speaker 2: who am I? What? What? What brings me value for myself?
Speaker 2: Where does my self worth really come from? Which is
Speaker 2: supposed to be internal, your own operating system.
Speaker 1: But I think it's very hard because we're the culture
Speaker 1: doesn't give us that message.
Speaker 2: It doesn't.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing that I think that we're in
Speaker 1: a major turning point in humanity right now, as as
Speaker 1: we can see from everything that's going on, like politically
Speaker 1: and culturally, that like, I think there has to be
Speaker 1: a shift towards us getting closer to God in ourselves
Speaker 1: whatever that means, whatever, It doesn't have to be organized religion.
Speaker 1: We actually have a big I have a company called
Speaker 1: The Sex Said, also the sex Said dot Com, and
Speaker 1: we have a podcast. But on our site we have
Speaker 1: lots of resources and we have stuff sex positive Muslims,
Speaker 1: sex positive Christians. So I don't think the sexuality and
Speaker 1: spiritually are exclusive to each other, right, But I think
Speaker 1: I think that like getting closer to whatever gives you faith, hope, prayer,
Speaker 1: and also I think that that just expands the orgasm
Speaker 1: and expands the sense of sex when you can get
Speaker 1: into that sacred sex. And again that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you can't have kinky, anonomous sex. Absolutely, just really understand
Speaker 1: you know what needs those are fulfilling, so that before
Speaker 1: you fuck that person whatever, drink that drink, take that pill.
Speaker 1: You understand. Am I doing this because I want to
Speaker 1: feel pleasure? Or are you doing this because I really
Speaker 1: feel shitty about myself and I want to escape this pain?
Speaker 2: Yes? Because if you're numbing or engageing, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1: Those have different impacts on you, because then it just
Speaker 1: becomes mindless, like mindless consumption.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always talk about the beginning of my whole
Speaker 2: journey in my twenties was such a mindless It was
Speaker 2: always had to be drunk or high, and I was
Speaker 2: just fucking to feel better about myself. And nine times
Speaker 2: out of ten the sex was terrible. It didn't accomplish
Speaker 2: what needed to accomplish, or if it did, it was
Speaker 2: so fleeting. And now being able to know what brings
Speaker 2: me pleasure and who brings me pleasure, I get to
Speaker 2: be so intentional that when I do have sex, even
Speaker 2: if it's not as much, it's so valuable to me.
Speaker 2: It actually restore It's actually restorative as opposed to being
Speaker 2: something that drains me, like.
Speaker 1: A restorative yoga class.
Speaker 2: It absolutely is.
Speaker 1: So I want to say, because you said this podcast
Speaker 1: is for everyone from the novice to the hoe, But
Speaker 1: the thing is, in your sexual journey, in your life,
Speaker 1: you can vacillate back and forth between both those things
Speaker 1: all the time. So I want to say to the
Speaker 1: novices out there that, like, we should always maintain a
Speaker 1: beginner's mindset, and there is no such thing as like,
Speaker 1: oh I'm too old to learn this, or I should
Speaker 1: have should have what a cuta? Because I hear a
Speaker 1: lot of that, like I should know better or people
Speaker 1: beat themselves up over this, Like just you got to
Speaker 1: accept where you're at at your journey because your sexuality
Speaker 1: is it as individual to you as your thumbprint.
Speaker 2: Here, love that, love that, Yes, we value A core
Speaker 2: value here is curiosity, and so maintaining curiosity wanting to learn.
Speaker 2: I always say I'm a I'm a teacher's pet. I'm
Speaker 2: not a teacher here. I love to learn, And so
Speaker 2: I think that's so important for us to remember, no
Speaker 2: matter how how experience, when I experience, you are, to
Speaker 2: really keep that beginner's mindset is such a brilliant thing.
Speaker 2: My other question for you is about betrayal, because that
Speaker 2: obviously comes up here. How do you feel? And you
Speaker 2: might be musing you might be working through this, but like,
Speaker 2: what are the steps to healing your own heart after betrayal,
Speaker 2: especially if you know that you're not going to get
Speaker 2: that closure? But you know, I think we all want
Speaker 2: We talked about this with Coroma on the show, where
Speaker 2: it's like we want the perfect closure, the like picturesque.
Speaker 2: We have the conversation, we sit down, we understand why
Speaker 2: the person did what they did and all that. But
Speaker 2: that's usually nine times in ten, not happening. So what
Speaker 2: is what has been your saving grace in moving forward
Speaker 2: for yourself?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of times the person doesn't know
Speaker 1: why because they're not on their own. We're all where
Speaker 1: we're at on our journey and self discovery, right, So
Speaker 1: I try not to be like, oh, he's like that
Speaker 1: a lesser point than me journey. I'm just like he's
Speaker 1: where he's at, and I'm I still feel hurt, like
Speaker 1: I told him, I'm telling the story. It's about to
Speaker 1: be a year anniversary and there's you know, I just
Speaker 1: I just met someone very handsome, and I feel I
Speaker 1: can feel myself like closing up and becoming guarded and
Speaker 1: being like really afraid, and it's like, a I have
Speaker 1: to be mindful and I have to tell myself it's
Speaker 1: okay to move slow. It's ok to move slow, slow,
Speaker 1: and to like get to know someone and not miss
Speaker 1: the red flag.
Speaker 2: That's a life lesson everything, and it's okay. Everyone wants
Speaker 2: to be fast, it's okay to be slow, to move slow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I take I do jiu jitsu, yeah, and I okay, so.
Speaker 2: I've done it. I have done it since college, but
Speaker 2: it was my favorite.
Speaker 1: So my who I trained jiu jitsu with two people.
Speaker 1: They're both in the Gracy Brazilian Gracy family. That's like
Speaker 1: jiu jitsu Brazilian dynasty got it right. And I learned
Speaker 1: a lot from them about life too. But that was
Speaker 1: a big lesson on the mat the other day for
Speaker 1: me is that even in a situation like that, is
Speaker 1: like slow down, slow down and breathe and like, don't
Speaker 1: get ahead of myself. Yeah, so and and go through
Speaker 1: the process. So with this this betrayal that I had
Speaker 1: that was so shocking, well, first I fucking cried. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I cried my ass off. I just wept, like on
Speaker 1: the floor. Yeah, for a long time. Then I got
Speaker 1: I was really angry. I was really angry. I had
Speaker 1: so many revenge Oh yeah, I write about all of
Speaker 1: it in this revenge called do you know my friend Gila,
Speaker 1: she goes by Wheezy. Yeah. So we were on the
Speaker 1: phone and I was like, okay, like I want to like,
Speaker 1: let's call it. Yeah, like I had lost it. She
Speaker 1: was like, I think we got to calm down.
Speaker 2: A break, let's take it, let's go.
Speaker 1: And my mom was like she was the one who
Speaker 1: said to me, revenge is the dish best ser of
Speaker 1: cold like hold a beat, So I wrote, I mean
Speaker 1: I chant. First of all, I took that twenty seven
Speaker 1: hundred dollars and I paid for a logo for starfucker
Speaker 1: and yes, and I just poured everything into launching this
Speaker 1: sub stack incredible and that I knew that like six
Speaker 1: months down the road, I would write about it. And
Speaker 1: so when I did, I actually gave him a free
Speaker 1: subscription for like that month. Yeah, As it was a
Speaker 1: three part series that was going back and forth. I
Speaker 1: was talking about my dad. I was talking about a
Speaker 1: story involving my grandfather and a movie star like I,
Speaker 1: and then I wrapped it up with this story about him.
Speaker 1: So I gave him a free month so he could
Speaker 1: read it because I knew it was all the things
Speaker 1: that we would the conversation we never have, and I saw,
Speaker 1: you know how you can see on the sub suck
Speaker 1: the back end. I know people don't realize that motherfucker
Speaker 1: read it eight times in the first twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: It came out. Wow, and then I just decided prescriptions, Yeah,
Speaker 1: his subscription right, yeah yeah. So I think that's how
Speaker 1: I worked through the betrayal, is like it was a
Speaker 1: slow process.
Speaker 2: As a slow. You let it be slow.
Speaker 1: I let it be slow. And then even now, like
Speaker 1: in dating, it's coming up. It just came up. You
Speaker 1: know it's coming up for me.
Speaker 2: Now do you say to the new person that you're
Speaker 2: talking to about, like not necessarily all the details, but
Speaker 2: are you like, listen, I'm going slow right now or.
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to have to because they just
Speaker 1: actually were like what's going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah? There we go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's honestly, it's like I feel a little embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I mean I had to get over that because this
Speaker 1: kind of betrayal is I'm not the only person this
Speaker 1: kind of thing has happened to, but I felt like ashamed.
Speaker 1: I felt like, oh I should know better. I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to be this like sexpert or whatever.
Speaker 2: Do that, and a lot of ourselves, of our humanity, it's
Speaker 2: like we we only know what we know. You know,
Speaker 2: you don't know to you get there and you get
Speaker 2: through it, and then you get through it and then
Speaker 2: you then you do know. But we have to go
Speaker 2: through it to to understand what the fuck it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but don't I don't know about you, but like
Speaker 1: sometimes I beat myself up, Oh all the time. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you God, You're like, you're so stupid. You
Speaker 1: have all these things in life figured out. Why couldn't
Speaker 1: you figure this out? Or you know, you compare and despair.
Speaker 2: Of course, and then you like, you know, I'm always
Speaker 2: asking questions what advice would I give if I were
Speaker 2: my own parent? What advice would I give to myself?
Speaker 2: Which is what a phrase my mentor gifted me. And
Speaker 2: so when I find myself beating myself up, then I
Speaker 2: try to let the parent version of myself come in
Speaker 2: and be soft and be like, Okay, you can put
Speaker 2: the you can put the belt down, like we don't
Speaker 2: have to beat ourselves up, we can chill, like what
Speaker 2: is actually happening here? And can I let myself off
Speaker 2: the hook? Constantly asking yourself that's for everything? Can you
Speaker 2: let yourself off the hook? Because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of us will beat ourselves up and that's not really
Speaker 2: doing anything, of course, to let it happen, that's part
Speaker 2: of being a human. But then can you get to
Speaker 2: the place where you let yourself off the hook? Which
Speaker 2: is constantly a reminder? Right, It's just like it's it's
Speaker 2: not you're always I'm a perfectionist, and I wish I
Speaker 2: could like stay perfect all the time and always let
Speaker 2: myself off the hook, But I don't. I beat myself
Speaker 2: up and then I let myself with the hook and
Speaker 2: the cycle.
Speaker 1: That's such good advice. And when you're talking about like
Speaker 1: be the parents, so a lot of people don't have
Speaker 1: that kind of situation growing up with their parents. I
Speaker 1: didn't have parents that were like super nurturing that way
Speaker 1: at all. And on my book cover it actually says
Speaker 1: reparent reprogram, you know, because I think we need to
Speaker 1: do that for ourselves. Absolutely need to treat ourselves the
Speaker 1: way we would treat a baby, you know, in those moments,
Speaker 1: and be tender with ourselves, like the way we would
Speaker 1: to our best friends. Absolutely, we'd never talk to our
Speaker 1: best friend the way.
Speaker 2: We talk to ourselves. Absolutely, And that's such an important reminder,
Speaker 2: Like we spend a lot of times in our mind
Speaker 2: and it's like making a kind place to be, making
Speaker 2: a soft, compassionate place to be. And you're not going
Speaker 2: to get it perfect all the time. There are times
Speaker 2: where you will be rachefel in there. But then can
Speaker 2: you catch it and go uh huh, not like that?
Speaker 2: Go slow, You're fine, let yourself off the hook. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, you want to do some messy mail.
Speaker 1: Let's do some messy mail. Yay, getting deep here.
Speaker 2: Usually we get deep in the end, but I was like,
Speaker 2: we're talking, this is great, let's let's let's go for it. Okay,
Speaker 2: that means it's time for messy mail. We'll read out
Speaker 2: messy patron stories and submissions. As always, your submissions remain anonymous.
Speaker 2: This on this first one says sometimes stepping my partner
Speaker 2: with a dildo is hotter than using my cock. You
Speaker 2: enjoy toys?
Speaker 1: Do I enjoy toys? Sometimes? You know? After the same
Speaker 1: acts had, like Houston hid so much hang ups, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so many hang ups about toys. Actually, he shamed me
Speaker 1: about like masturbating with toys in front of him, which
Speaker 1: I thought was so weird because I think one of
Speaker 1: the best ways to get to know yeah one's actually
Speaker 1: is to ask them to have them show you how
Speaker 1: they like to masturbate absolutely, because how you get yourself
Speaker 1: off is going to just teach.
Speaker 2: Them absolutely, and you're going to be different than somebody else, right,
Speaker 2: because sometimes we try to do what we do with
Speaker 2: an old partner, it's like.
Speaker 1: Well that's a different person, Yes, personally.
Speaker 2: Who's in front of me wants something else. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I well one the first time. I don't really use
Speaker 2: a lot of toys, and we talked about that on here.
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and figure out my relationship to toys.
Speaker 2: But some of the hottest sex that I've ever had
Speaker 2: has been when a partner introduced toys. So I remember
Speaker 2: the first time a partner introduced a dildo and used
Speaker 2: it on me and then fuck me after, and it
Speaker 2: was so lovely and wonderful, to the point where we
Speaker 2: had sex like in the morning, and I had all
Speaker 2: this stuff to do that day, and I canceled everything
Speaker 2: because I was like, I need to recover. Like I
Speaker 2: was like, I went home, I ordered cookies and I
Speaker 2: ordered like the tasty things, and I was like, let
Speaker 2: me just sit because it's my after character, and let
Speaker 2: me sit here and let my legs stop tremmoring because
Speaker 2: it was just so hot. And then I recently also
Speaker 2: use it again, used a butt plug with a with
Speaker 2: a partner who needed help opening their hole in general,
Speaker 2: and so we're like, well, let's get you butt plugs
Speaker 2: and then let's you know, put it in and use
Speaker 2: it and make out and it was, it's so intimate
Speaker 2: in a different way. How can I explain it? Like,
Speaker 2: obviously it's intimate without the toys, but adding the toys
Speaker 2: in requires that much more communication and collaboration. So I
Speaker 2: think it probably makes that that much more intimate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it can be great, especially like
Speaker 1: if people, for example, we get that a lot at
Speaker 1: the sex set, a lot of women, straight women and saying,
Speaker 1: you know, they're curious about anal sucks or their partner
Speaker 1: wants to train anal secks, they're not sure. We always
Speaker 1: suggest that they go slow, use a lot of loop
Speaker 1: and start with toys. Toys, yeah, and start with like,
Speaker 1: you know, a smaller size bug, yeah, and move up.
Speaker 1: So I think they can, Like toys can be a
Speaker 1: great barrier breaker, Yeah.
Speaker 2: A great berrier breaker, a great way to communicate and
Speaker 2: and build those communication muscles. So yeah, I love I
Speaker 2: love a toy and and that. So it makes sense
Speaker 2: to patron why that was hot hotter for you? This
Speaker 2: one says I got tiny boobs, I saw porn for
Speaker 2: the first time, and the big book big boob woman
Speaker 2: grabbed and bit her own nips. Jealous. To be honest,
Speaker 2: have you ever like bitten any part of yourself or
Speaker 2: or played like I.
Speaker 1: Was just saying about that. I think I could. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're like little, and I don't always be like
Speaker 1: like who and which of the boys, Because.
Speaker 2: I've tried, so.
Speaker 1: I feel like I would totally try to buy it
Speaker 1: a penis.
Speaker 2: I would be like the first thing to try. You
Speaker 2: see the point you're like, I had to try at
Speaker 2: least once. I tried several times. Break your back like
Speaker 2: it was crazy. A boom feels it might be a
Speaker 2: little easier to get up there. The dick is just
Speaker 2: so far away. I'm always so impressed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what for smaller sized titties, I've
Speaker 1: always heard that like a lot of people love like
Speaker 1: the size of a titty that are size of a breast.
Speaker 1: Can that can fit in a champagne coop was like
Speaker 1: very s small, you know those like vintage, not the
Speaker 1: like flutes. Yeah, yeah, so I think about that when
Speaker 1: I I like, actually, I think all breasts are beautiful
Speaker 1: as Yeah, but I love the idea.
Speaker 2: I love that as a visual A really hot photo shoot.
Speaker 2: This one asks would you rather never receive again or
Speaker 2: never give again? Sexually? So would you rather never receive
Speaker 2: ahead or give head.
Speaker 1: That's hard.
Speaker 2: That is hard.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give it up.
Speaker 2: See, I love receiving head. I love having my ass eating,
Speaker 2: but I love giving head and I love eating ass.
Speaker 2: So I think my answer is I would rather never
Speaker 2: receive again. I know, gasp, I'm saying it, and I
Speaker 2: just love sucking dick and eating ass so much. Like
Speaker 2: I I listen, I love getting it, but I really
Speaker 2: love giving it. It's like it does a lot for me.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to say that you're.
Speaker 1: Period.
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. That makes sense. I
Speaker 2: am a stripper. This one says, I'm a stripper. Customer
Speaker 2: paid to smell my butthole last night, tried to sniff
Speaker 2: my soul out of my ass. Have you ever had
Speaker 2: anyone sniff your ass? They didn't say it, but I hope.
Speaker 1: I hope it was like a good you know figure
Speaker 1: something I mean, or high three.
Speaker 2: I mean something, And.
Speaker 1: It was like a fast sniff, a fast.
Speaker 2: But I mean, they say, to try to sniff my
Speaker 2: soul out of my ass, which feels like.
Speaker 1: A like some Voldemort ship. That's like some serious Voldemort ship.
Speaker 2: I want to try, like now, I want to try
Speaker 2: that I'm going to ask my boyfriend to let me
Speaker 2: sniff his ass like that, because I wonder, like what,
Speaker 2: I wonder what you get. I wonder what it does
Speaker 2: like with a tingle, Like what what what is he
Speaker 2: experiencing from that sniff? Probably a lot?
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably. I mean everyone's got there. Yeah, everyone's got
Speaker 1: the thing.
Speaker 2: I'm so into unlocking new kings because there are things
Speaker 2: you go, I'll never do that, I'll never and then
Speaker 2: you try it and you're like, oh, I kind of
Speaker 2: like this. Like I said on the show, I have
Speaker 2: a foot fetish now, which I never thought that I
Speaker 2: would be into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're if you don't want to like go you.
Speaker 2: Know, full four, I can just like shake feet picks.
Speaker 2: And then there's a there's a friend of mine who
Speaker 2: has an account that is just all feet picks, and
Speaker 2: I like, if you were my friend girl, well, also
Speaker 2: we're friends, we could still for sometfits. I love sucking feet.
Speaker 2: I like the more my face, I like the more
Speaker 2: my chest. So anyways, all that to say, maybe the
Speaker 2: holeby a thing that I would enjoy. Is there anything
Speaker 2: that you any kinks or things that you've discovered that
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I never thought I would like that,
Speaker 2: but I do well.
Speaker 1: I always like to think that one I think I'm
Speaker 1: going to be really wild in my sixties, yes, And
Speaker 1: I also like to think with sex in general that
Speaker 1: I want I want to be open, even if I
Speaker 1: maybe like come across as more like vanilla now or
Speaker 1: in this phase of my life that I don't want
Speaker 1: to rule out something that like might not be my
Speaker 1: kink right now. Very like open too, But I think
Speaker 1: for me, I need to be in a committed monogaal
Speaker 1: partnership to like feel safe and trusting. So I would
Speaker 1: say never say.
Speaker 2: Never, never say never.
Speaker 1: I love you know what I want to do? What
Speaker 1: I want to do pie in the face. I want
Speaker 1: to like pie someone in the face and have them
Speaker 1: pie me in the.
Speaker 2: Face and then like eat it and look it off
Speaker 2: of each other.
Speaker 1: I mean, I might just be satisfied. I want to
Speaker 1: do a dance a dance off pie fight a dance Okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to give credit to my friend Dita Vontiz,
Speaker 1: who like came up with this idea like years ago,
Speaker 1: years ago, she used to do these like a pie
Speaker 1: fight dance off parties where you would have you would
Speaker 1: have a partner and like you would pick a song
Speaker 1: right and you like kind of er like you know,
Speaker 1: you routine at the end of it, you key line
Speaker 1: pie each other in the face. And I just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's just something like very satisfying about
Speaker 1: Like I like throwing rotting fruit when I'm frustrated. I
Speaker 1: just love it, Like rotting fruit.
Speaker 2: Do you keep rotting fruit?
Speaker 1: Just its like it's going or like you know, like
Speaker 1: I've I've done it with papayas, I've done pomegranates, like
Speaker 1: a concrete wall. Just very satisfying because it everywhere.
Speaker 2: Reminds you of the TikTok videos of people rolling down
Speaker 2: bottles down the stairs and they break, Yeah, to see
Speaker 2: which one's gonna break. There's something satisfying about the destruction.
Speaker 1: I have not done any of this for content. Just
Speaker 1: do it for like to like kind of like get
Speaker 1: my frustration out. Yeah, I guess, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: just makes me feel really good. So I might have
Speaker 1: like a food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there might be like a food little kink or something.
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, you should explore that.
Speaker 1: I just heard a really good trick. There's this famous
Speaker 1: woman named Pamela Harriman. Churchill, who like had all all
Speaker 1: of these lovers in the twentieth century. She's dead now,
Speaker 1: but just reading her biography, and she kept a bowl
Speaker 1: of ice cubes next to her bed for oral sex,
Speaker 1: which she learned from a legendary another legendary playboy lover
Speaker 1: called Olicon. Okay, so you take you put the ice
Speaker 1: cubes in your mouth, and you know it's either like
Speaker 1: you keep the ice cube in your mouth when giving
Speaker 1: a blowjob, or you make your mouth really cold.
Speaker 2: Temperature play, yeah.
Speaker 1: Temperature play.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of she because she was like,
Speaker 1: you know, this fabulous woman with all these she just
Speaker 1: keeps it buy houses, jewelry and painting. So I'm imagining
Speaker 1: the bedside table in this like well appointed bedroom of course,
Speaker 1: you know, with like I don't know, chintz or something
Speaker 1: like silver ice.
Speaker 2: Pocket, and you know it's it's not just an ordinary
Speaker 2: ice but.
Speaker 1: It's like one long man. He puts it in, wishes
Speaker 1: it around.
Speaker 2: I have new goals. I love this. I have new goals.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, buy a nice budget. Okay. This one
Speaker 2: says I got five loads in three days with three
Speaker 2: guys and recounted it to my boyfriend for his request
Speaker 2: turns him on. I you you're monogamous, Yeah, is there?
Speaker 2: But is there anything that would turn you on about
Speaker 2: hearing something about your partner's past at all?
Speaker 1: Totally? Yeah, totally and I totally have. I'm like really
Speaker 1: into homer erotica, like especially like vintage. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: love like there's I mean, I love like sixties and
Speaker 1: seventies gay porn so hot, like way more male than
Speaker 1: female for some reason. But I just think it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: very erotic. And I remember when I was going through
Speaker 1: my divorce, like one of the first guys I was with,
Speaker 1: he was you know, I would like make him tell
Speaker 1: me like all his stories. Yeah, being with men. I
Speaker 1: just found that so hot.
Speaker 2: I love that. I find it hot knowing about My
Speaker 2: husband does not like he doesn't like seeing it. I
Speaker 2: think he's fine with hearing it, but I loved I
Speaker 2: just loved when people talk to me about what they're
Speaker 2: into and what they've been, what they've done. Like I
Speaker 2: don't get jealous around that stuff. I do find it
Speaker 2: sexy and inside of polyamory. With my husband, we don't
Speaker 2: talk about other stuff, but with my friend and sometimes
Speaker 2: we'll talk about other things and it's a kink. It's
Speaker 2: a vibe for sure. Yeah, it's yeah, I don't know
Speaker 2: what what is hot about that? I guess it's like.
Speaker 1: A it's kind of like erotica.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say it's like reading or listening
Speaker 2: to erotica. But then it's like your partner which you
Speaker 2: care about, and there's I don't know, there's something.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like a different way of consuming pornography. Yes,
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe more. It's like more intimate and
Speaker 1: also acts on your brain in a different way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: than like the visual like just scrolling porn does.
Speaker 2: Sure, that makes sense. I love that. Now I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about when I can tell my boyfriend this one says
Speaker 2: was supposed to sleep with my sixty two year old friend,
Speaker 2: but I'm back with my fifty two year old friend.
Speaker 2: I'm twenty eight. I'm curious what is the biggest age
Speaker 2: gap or like what like what's your Is there like
Speaker 2: a limit for an age gap between partners? You think?
Speaker 1: We asked this on the We have a also and
Speaker 1: we have a Monday question of the Week on the
Speaker 1: sex ad Instagram, which is at the sex Said, and
Speaker 1: one of our most popular ones was what's the biggest
Speaker 1: age gap, and that was I always love reading all
Speaker 1: the comments on it. Let's see what was my personal
Speaker 1: big age gap. I think we're obviously in a pretty misogynic,
Speaker 1: misogynistic culture, so there's a lot of I mean, even
Speaker 1: though you have movies like Baby Girl and everything, now,
Speaker 1: like people really have trouble with an older woman any
Speaker 1: younger man in the way that they don't with the reverse.
Speaker 1: Does I have even friends in public relationships, I mean
Speaker 1: that wasn't their intention or whatever, and the women just
Speaker 1: get trash, totally trashed, even if I know that they're
Speaker 1: actually like a successful, loving, long term couple. So I've
Speaker 1: definitely went through I definitely had some younger men. I definitely,
Speaker 1: I definitely, I've definitely done the younger man. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to do that. I was kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: I need someone who has like seeing reference points or
Speaker 1: like music. You know, that's fair references, et cetera. But
Speaker 1: I think it's hot. I have a problem with.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, because I'm always like, what's the quality of
Speaker 2: the relationship, you know, like and what are we you know,
Speaker 2: I don't really have a Probably when my biggest age gap,
Speaker 2: which is the same my boyfriend is ten years younger
Speaker 2: than me, and then I've also dated ten years older
Speaker 2: than me. So that's probably the biggest age gap that
Speaker 2: I've done.
Speaker 1: But I've done more than that younger.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm down. Like you know, I also think there's
Speaker 2: a difference between like, you know, fucking versus dating versus you know, like,
Speaker 2: which again still boils down to what is that person's history,
Speaker 2: what are they coming to the table with, because you know,
Speaker 2: some of us have been through different things and so
Speaker 2: we show up in a different I want to say
Speaker 2: this correctly, which is not that you're more mature, but
Speaker 2: a more aligned version of maturity. So sometimes somebody might
Speaker 2: be younger and maybe in their twenties, but they've been
Speaker 2: through some things that really allows them to connect with
Speaker 2: somebody who's in their forties or fifties or sixties in
Speaker 2: a different way. And so like I'm always like, what's
Speaker 2: who are the people I don't the age is, you know,
Speaker 2: the age and obviously consensual whatnot, But who are the
Speaker 2: people that are in the relationship is what always matters.
Speaker 1: And sometimes like I like to learn something from relationship, right,
Speaker 1: I really get off on a person's brain, you know,
Speaker 1: So if.
Speaker 2: There's nothing sexier than somebody's fucking brain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a saor sexual. Yes, yeah. Sometimes you know
Speaker 1: if someone is like a bit older and learned, and
Speaker 1: I mean along with my erotic library fantasy. Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: like the professor of fantasy.
Speaker 2: Of course I love a professor the learning. It's the learning.
Speaker 2: I always say that I'm turned on by anyone who
Speaker 2: can tell me about things that I don't know about.
Speaker 2: So if you're like a tech nerd or you're like
Speaker 2: giving me all the you could tell me all about
Speaker 2: my computer, I will. I was like your dick. Will
Speaker 2: you want to talk about gardening? I don't know how
Speaker 2: to guarden. I will suck your dick. I just tell
Speaker 2: me about things that like be passionate about something and
Speaker 2: like no all about it it really. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: pussy jingle, as I got from Lily Womble from Date Bras,
Speaker 2: and I love that term. Actually it gives me a
Speaker 2: pussy dingle.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, wet panty, wet panties.
Speaker 2: Liz. Thank you for being.
Speaker 1: Here, Thank you for having so much fun, so much fun.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 2: Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
Speaker 2: So before we go, let me speak to yours. I
Speaker 2: had such an incredible time talking to Liz, as you saw.
Speaker 2: You know, usually we get into messy mail and then
Speaker 2: we dump dive into the deeper messy key, key, the
Speaker 2: messy conversation. But that messy story, honey, that was a
Speaker 2: messy story, and it just led. I was like, let's
Speaker 2: just fallow the flow because there was just so much
Speaker 2: good juice and so much to talk about. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: start here, which might feel like a random place to start,
Speaker 2: but we were talking about sex work, and you know,
Speaker 2: there's such a stigma around sex work, and so I
Speaker 2: just want to say boldly, sex work is work. And
Speaker 2: so if you are engage, if you are a sex worker,
Speaker 2: I want you to know that you are respected, loved
Speaker 2: and valued here. And if you are somebody who hires
Speaker 2: sex workers, you know, I trust that you are respectful
Speaker 2: and loving and kind and compassionate. And even if you're
Speaker 2: not somebody who is hiring sex workers, I you know,
Speaker 2: I think that it is such a tenet and of
Speaker 2: value here that we distigmatize these things that we've been
Speaker 2: raised to think, are you know, beneath us or below
Speaker 2: us or you know, not polite or whatever the fuck
Speaker 2: the terms are. But sex work is work, and I'm
Speaker 2: really grateful that, you know, we're living in a time
Speaker 2: where there can be more safety around it. Obviously it's
Speaker 2: not perfect, but you know, I think that we listen.
Speaker 2: I got friends who do it, who are on only fans,
Speaker 2: who you know, dominatrices and you know, all the things,
Speaker 2: and I love them. They are also the coolest fucking
Speaker 2: people with the best fucking stories.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And so I just want to again boldly say sex
Speaker 2: work is work. I really love this conversation around energy
Speaker 2: around sex and we were posing, you know, are you
Speaker 2: doing this for pleasure or to escape? Are you numbing
Speaker 2: or are you engaging this concept of mindless consumption and
Speaker 2: fucking to feel better about yourself as opposed to having
Speaker 2: sex that's restorative and not draining. I can't, you know,
Speaker 2: like we're socialized to think that, you know, sex is
Speaker 2: just putting a dick in in a volva, you know,
Speaker 2: putting your dick in some hole, and that's what it is,
Speaker 2: and it's so much more than that. You cannot deny
Speaker 2: whether you are really spiritual, or you're an atheist, or
Speaker 2: you're you know, full on Christian or your Muslim or
Speaker 2: whatever your religious energetic beliefs are. I think that it
Speaker 2: is important for us to know that when we are
Speaker 2: engaging with sex, that is a transfer of energy. Even
Speaker 2: if it's you know, a glory hall. Okay, even if
Speaker 2: you just you know, you're in the dark room, even
Speaker 2: if you're at a sex party, it's still an exchange
Speaker 2: of energy. And so you get to be intentional about it.
Speaker 2: You get to have anonymous sex, you get to be
Speaker 2: in dark rooms and have sex, you get to fuck
Speaker 2: in the alley way, you can do all these things,
Speaker 2: but it's about doing it with intention, like knowing why
Speaker 2: you're doing it, what are you going after If it
Speaker 2: is to escape the name that for yourself, know that
Speaker 2: for yourself, so you know how you're coming into the interaction,
Speaker 2: and so that you can also keep yourself emotionally and
Speaker 2: physically safe and the partner or partners that you're engaging
Speaker 2: with the same. So I just think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: not about what kind of sex is right or we
Speaker 2: all have our fantasies and our things that we like
Speaker 2: and our kinks and our fetishes all that stuff. But
Speaker 2: I think making sure that you have an intention behind it,
Speaker 2: and you know, when you're engaging versus trying to escape
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you can't. You know, listen, an escape
Speaker 2: is lovely sometimes, but do it intentionally. Oh I love
Speaker 2: this thing because a lot of us do it. You know,
Speaker 2: this idea that a relationship and I've been talking about
Speaker 2: this on subsec I'm been talking about this on Instagram,
Speaker 2: But this idea that a relationship makes as whole and
Speaker 2: kind of underneath that is getting into a relationship with
Speaker 2: someone so you can point to them and say, there's
Speaker 2: my worth that, Like, I want to step that out
Speaker 2: sometimes whenever I hear people very and there is no judgment, noe.
Speaker 2: Obviously this is a safe space. But like when I
Speaker 2: hear people talking about wanting a relationship, wanting a relationship,
Speaker 2: wanting a relationship, but I'm not hearing them poke at
Speaker 2: what their desire for that relationship is, right, it could
Speaker 2: because I don't want to be lonely or whatever, But like, uh,
Speaker 2: what's happening underneath that vibrating underneath that? Is there a
Speaker 2: part of you that doesn't feel worthy and you hope
Speaker 2: this partner is going to make you feel worthy? Is
Speaker 2: there a part of you that feels that you are
Speaker 2: not you are less than if you are not in
Speaker 2: a relationship, which, by the way, those feelings make sense,
Speaker 2: not because they're true, but because that's how we've been socialized.
Speaker 2: That's what we're taught in every fucking movie that you watch,
Speaker 2: every fucking TV show, every book, there's always, most of
Speaker 2: the time, nine times out of ten, there is some
Speaker 2: sort of romantic relationship. And I talk about this. I
Speaker 2: think we're gonna talk about this on next week's episode.
Speaker 2: But just like this, like there are movies that I've
Speaker 2: watched or rom coms that I've watched where like the
Speaker 2: protagonists is living their best life and they're you know,
Speaker 2: the movie is actually perfect without them finding a mate,
Speaker 2: but they have to find a mate by the end
Speaker 2: of it. And that is so frustrating to me because
Speaker 2: it just signals that we are not enough if we
Speaker 2: are in romantic partnership, which also completely negates all the
Speaker 2: other partnerships that we're in, all the other relationships we're in.
Speaker 2: Right that romantic Bell hook says it right, romantic relationship
Speaker 2: is not the number one right community is like, that's
Speaker 2: the relationship that we should be we should be putting
Speaker 2: on the pedestal romantic relationship gets to be part of
Speaker 2: our community, but it doesn't need to be the be all,
Speaker 2: end all. And so as you pursue relationships, as you
Speaker 2: pursue wanting to find your person or your person's I
Speaker 2: think it's the same thing that we're talking about with
Speaker 2: and with intentional sex. Be intentional about your relationship pursuit.
Speaker 2: Understand why you want it. Understand if it's because I
Speaker 2: would like to experience this thing, because it's a yearning
Speaker 2: I have, it's a desire that I have, or is
Speaker 2: it I want this thing because I don't feel like
Speaker 2: I am enough without it. I feel like I'm broken
Speaker 2: if I don't have it. I feel like I'm not
Speaker 2: worthy or lovable if I don't have it. You know,
Speaker 2: know that's the difference, because it'll it will color your
Speaker 2: pursuit differently, and one will feel expansive and the other
Speaker 2: one will feel burdensome and heavy. And I think when
Speaker 2: it comes to dating and love, you know, obviously there
Speaker 2: will be conflict and tension, and that's part of growth.
Speaker 2: But I hope the base of it, the foundation of
Speaker 2: it is expansion and love. We're not trying to get
Speaker 2: somebody to complete us. We want them to expand us.
Speaker 2: I also want to point out we should always maintain
Speaker 2: a beginner's mindset. Your sexuality, as list said, is as
Speaker 2: individual to you as your thumbprint. But that is a
Speaker 2: component I'm gonna say again here, which is curiosity. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, no matter how experienced you are, like, don't
Speaker 2: feel like once you think that you know everything, then
Speaker 2: maybe it's a ramp, you know, like life is over.
Speaker 2: If you feel like you understand and know everything, then
Speaker 2: you're done. Like, okay, then what else is there? But
Speaker 2: if you can maintain oh, there's more for me to learn,
Speaker 2: more ways in which I can evolve, more ways in
Speaker 2: which I can grow, more ways in which I can expand,
Speaker 2: more things. I can try, Things that maybe I wasn't
Speaker 2: curious about ten years ago. Maybe I'm curious about now.
Speaker 2: Things that I thought I wouldn't like a year ago,
Speaker 2: I might like now. Right, So I think always being
Speaker 2: intentional about you know, poking and pulling a thread and
Speaker 2: asking the question again, Okay, I I didn't, And I'm
Speaker 2: gonna use this about like I don't like piss play. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's okay, nothing wrong with that. But maybe in five
Speaker 2: years you were the different partner. Life has happened different
Speaker 2: whatever You've explored some mother kinks and you might pose
Speaker 2: a question, again, do I like piss play? You might
Speaker 2: come up with the same answer, no, I don't, But
Speaker 2: you might also come up with the answer yeah, I do,
Speaker 2: or maybe I'm like curious about it, and that's great,
Speaker 2: that's okay, you know what I mean. Like, I think
Speaker 2: it's like, how do we create space to continue exploring
Speaker 2: ourselves and continue learning about ourselves? And how do we
Speaker 2: you know, as I say at the top of the
Speaker 2: messy mandates, things get to shift, change, evolve, right, so
Speaker 2: like allow yourself to not just your opinions to shift,
Speaker 2: change and evolve, but your pleasure to shift change and evolve,
Speaker 2: and how you approach it and how you approach what
Speaker 2: sex means to you with betrayal. Uh And when Liz said,
Speaker 2: we said, it's okay to move slow so you don't
Speaker 2: miss the red flags. Aw aw okay. I think that's
Speaker 2: a lesson in life. And I've been saying that to
Speaker 2: myself recently. Go slow, you know, slow, and Liza said,
Speaker 2: slow down and breathe so you don't get ahead of yourself.
Speaker 2: There's such a We are such a culture of immediacy
Speaker 2: post that photo, Now, deliver my food, now, give my
Speaker 2: Amazon package now. Right, We're such a now now now immediacy, immediacy.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that our nervous systems are built
Speaker 2: for a now moment. I think that keeps us a
Speaker 2: little too activate, a little too in flight or fight mode. Right,
Speaker 2: It's just like where I think what we could benefit
Speaker 2: from is more breath, more permission to move slow. As
Speaker 2: they say, somebody's urgency is not your emergency. Right, So,
Speaker 2: just because the world feels very urgent, feels very like, oh, immediately, immediately, immediately,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you need to adopt that. You get
Speaker 2: to very clearly say, okay, thank you so much. I
Speaker 2: hear your urgency, I feel your urgency. I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: a beat. I'm gonna take some time, some intentional time.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't need to respond to that today. Maybe
Speaker 2: I can respond to it tomorrow. I mean that that
Speaker 2: doesn't need to get done tonight. Maybe you can get
Speaker 2: done by the end of the week. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't need to be healed now, you know, maybe I
Speaker 2: can give myself time and grace and take the next
Speaker 2: however long it takes for me to move through this,
Speaker 2: and I can go slow so you don't miss the
Speaker 2: red legs. Okay, And that's the same thing when you
Speaker 2: are starting to date someone. You don't need to meet
Speaker 2: somebody and marry them tomorrow. You know, Hey, if you know,
Speaker 2: you know, great. But like that, we don't have to
Speaker 2: be moved in with each other by the end of
Speaker 2: the month. We get to go slow. We get to
Speaker 2: learn each other, we get to experience each other and
Speaker 2: make really intentional choices. And also if we're going slow,
Speaker 2: we get to feel our defaults get activated and triggered.
Speaker 2: What are old patterns that need to be broken? If
Speaker 2: we're moving at the light of speed, we can much
Speaker 2: more easily fall into old patterns that are no longer
Speaker 2: serving us. But if we intentionally go slow, we can
Speaker 2: catch those old patterns and choose a different choice, which
Speaker 2: is invaluable. And the last thing I will say, or
Speaker 2: maybe the second to leave, there's so much that I
Speaker 2: got from this conversation. I get from all these conversations.
Speaker 2: I really yeah, I really love my job. I really
Speaker 2: love it here, I love being here with you. I
Speaker 2: love these conversations. It really just makes me, and I
Speaker 2: hear it from you. You. You know, when y'all email
Speaker 2: me and DM me, or you see me in the
Speaker 2: street or at the gym or whatever it is, I
Speaker 2: hear it from you as well. But I just feel
Speaker 2: like I get to live a more liberated life. I
Speaker 2: get to to live a more free life from having
Speaker 2: these conversations because I'm learning so much from all these
Speaker 2: incredible spirits and souls and minds that are sitting across
Speaker 2: from me talking about the things we're talking about. Anyways,
Speaker 2: can you let yourself off the hook? Can you give
Speaker 2: yourself grace? You know, sometimes a lot of times if
Speaker 2: you're like me harshest critic, I am my harshest critic.
Speaker 2: You know, Like people can say whatever they want on
Speaker 2: the internet online to my face, it will never be
Speaker 2: as harsh as what I will say about myself. And
Speaker 2: that's something that I that I am. I am actively
Speaker 2: and always working on, Like, how can I give myself
Speaker 2: grace if I mess that up or I didn't, you know,
Speaker 2: nail that thing like I wanted to nail it, or
Speaker 2: I didn't you know, Can I let myself off the
Speaker 2: hook and say, hey, this is part of the journey.
Speaker 2: I don't need to be perfect here, right. This whole
Speaker 2: point of being messy, right is to leave perfection at
Speaker 2: the fucking door and let yourself show up as you are.
Speaker 2: And sometimes that version of yourself is gonna be a
Speaker 2: motherful ten, honey, you might be e be a fifteen,
Speaker 2: and sometimes that version of yourself might be a five
Speaker 2: or a four, And one is not better than the other.
Speaker 2: It is all part of you, all part of your learning,
Speaker 2: all part of your growth. So can you let yourself
Speaker 2: off the hook, and can you give yourself some grace
Speaker 2: when things are not exactly how you planned it? This
Speaker 2: is not don't hold yourself accountable, right, It's different, right,
Speaker 2: like hold yourself accountable. You know, if you create a rupture,
Speaker 2: repair it, hold yourself accountable. But you don't have to
Speaker 2: beat yourself up. Which takes me to this last point,
Speaker 2: which is talk to yourself like you talk to your bestie.
Speaker 2: You live in your mind all the time. So make
Speaker 2: it a kind place to be, make it a compassionate place,
Speaker 2: make it a sweet place, make it a soft place. Again,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean you can't hold yourself accountable. You can't learn,
Speaker 2: but you beating yourself up or talking to yourself like trash,
Speaker 2: like the gutter, like your enemy is not going to
Speaker 2: get you the results that you want. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: if you find yourself talking crazy to yourself, do what
Speaker 2: Liz does and throw rotten fruit. They'll all release that frustration, okay,
Speaker 2: or find your way to release that. I was actually
Speaker 2: the other night in bed like spiraling. I have this
Speaker 2: really cool opportunity that I can't wait to share with you.
Speaker 2: It's happening. Actually this comes out on Thursday, and I
Speaker 2: will be doing it on this Thursday. Just a wonderful
Speaker 2: opportunity to love on a friend and honor them in
Speaker 2: front of a very incredible room of people. And so
Speaker 2: I've been working on what that speech is and what
Speaker 2: that what my remarks will be, and I'm really happy
Speaker 2: with how it's it's shaping out. And then I was
Speaker 2: going to bed last night and started to just like
Speaker 2: negative talk myself and I had to go, Okay, I
Speaker 2: hear you. I hear you. You're trying to protect me,
Speaker 2: but let's we don't have to catastrophize this. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't have to make this a hard place to be.
Speaker 2: You're doing great, you did well. I hear you. Let's
Speaker 2: release that. So whatever, that's how I released. You know,
Speaker 2: my version of throwing through the wall is more so
Speaker 2: talking to myself. But for you, it might be go
Speaker 2: on a roller coaster for you. It might be doing
Speaker 2: a bunch of push ups for you, might be going
Speaker 2: on a little walk for you. It might be you know,
Speaker 2: listening to a particular artist or album. But find the
Speaker 2: ways that you can release your frustration. Okay, that's it.
Speaker 2: That was a lot, but I was just like taking
Speaker 2: notes and I was like, oh, I gotta hit this.
Speaker 2: I gotta hit this, I gotta hit that. So thank
Speaker 2: y'all for indulging with me. I love you so much.
Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Speaker 2: Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast at tell Me
Speaker 2: Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Speaker 2: Messy Mondays sub stack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
Speaker 2: recommendation on sex and self and so much more. Also,
Speaker 2: I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
Speaker 2: your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell
Speaker 2: Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
Speaker 2: call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy. That
Speaker 2: is six six nine six ninety six three seven seven nine,
Speaker 2: rate review and share this podcast with all your HOE
Speaker 2: and aspiring HOE friends really really helps the show out
Speaker 2: all right. Until next time, ask about the politics of
Speaker 2: that dick before you make it spit, make sure they
Speaker 2: eat the kitty. Buffore what they beat the kitty before
Speaker 2: fuckation or succation. Communication. And in case you haven't heard
Speaker 2: it yet, today you are so deeply loved. I love you, hie.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
Speaker 2: If you all enjoyed the show, send the episode to
Speaker 2: someone else who might like it. Tell Me Something Messy
Speaker 2: was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and You'll
Speaker 2: truly Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more
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