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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reethe.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Lorn vogel Baum, and today we have an

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Speaker 2: episode for you about the Silver Palette cookbook and related

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Speaker 2: books and the store. Yeah, that whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, we have quite a lot to get into.

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Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?

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Speaker 1: Laurd Uh?

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Speaker 2: This is a cookbook series that I grew up with

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Speaker 2: that my parents both referred to a lot, And it

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Speaker 2: was just both of their birthdays over the past month

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Speaker 2: or so, and I don't know, so I was just

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Speaker 2: thinking about them and going like, yeah, what about those books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and people have a lot of thoughts and fond

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Speaker 1: memories of those books.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I am. This was a very like

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Speaker 2: nostalgic and emotional episode for me. And also I really

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about the humans who created them, and

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Speaker 2: so right like, the deeper I got into it, the

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Speaker 2: more I was like, oh, I have more emotions. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's great. It's great though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty great story. It is four past episodes.

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Speaker 1: I would say check out other episodes we've done on cookbooks.

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Speaker 2: Cookbooks and cooking personalities. I think Julia Child and James

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Speaker 2: Beard are like specifically applicable.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah, yes, well we do have a lot

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Speaker 1: to get into. So I guess that brings us to

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Speaker 1: our question. The Silver Palette Cookbook what is it?

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Speaker 2: Well? Uh, the Silver Palette Cookbook is a cookbook first

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Speaker 2: published in nineteen eighty two that really helped bring a

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Speaker 2: like advansive metropolitan concept of food and cooking into American

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Speaker 2: home kitchens. It was instrumental in like a larger cultural

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Speaker 2: movement encouraging exploration of ingredients and techniques from around Europe,

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Speaker 2: not just the UK, in France and beyond even that

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Speaker 2: were you know, things that were new to a lot

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Speaker 2: of people in the US at the time, and also

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Speaker 2: like furthermore, approaching them with a curiosity and a sense

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Speaker 2: of play. It was middle class America's friendly guide to

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Speaker 2: nouvelle cuisine, you know the concept of the nicest, freshest

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Speaker 2: ingredients you can get prepared relatively simply, with nods to

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Speaker 2: the regions where they're from to allow those ingredients to shine.

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Speaker 2: It helped bridge, or maybe evolve, the canned mid century

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Speaker 2: dinner party cooking sort of thing through the fun but

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Speaker 2: classical Julia Child era into what felt at the time,

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Speaker 2: like a very modern, like fully technicolor future.

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Speaker 1: Do you have do you have a copy of it?

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Speaker 2: All three here in the studio.

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Speaker 1: They look cute. Just from looking at the pictures of them,

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Speaker 1: they seem, I don't know, they seem really approachable and cute.

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Speaker 1: They are.

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Speaker 2: They're they're very charming for for a number of reasons,

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Speaker 2: Like they've got these really dear illustrations throughout and they're

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Speaker 2: very friendly. Yeah right, so okay, So this book and

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Speaker 2: the two follow ups were co written by a pair

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Speaker 2: of women who a few years prior had started up

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Speaker 2: a tiny gourmet grocery and takeaway shop also called the

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Speaker 2: Silver Palette in New York City in like the posh

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Speaker 2: Upper West Side. More on them in the history section,

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Speaker 2: but briefly. Sheila Lukens was born Sheila Gail Block in

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia in nineteen forty two, spent her childhood in Connecticut,

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Speaker 2: went to school for art in New York, and got

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Speaker 2: into cooking while living overseas in London for her husband's job.

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Speaker 2: She trained with chefs there and in France, more as

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Speaker 2: like a dilettante than as a serious career consideration, and

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Speaker 2: then wound up back in New York City with her

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Speaker 2: husband and their two young daughters in nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 2: Our other author, Julie Rosso, was born in Michigan in

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Speaker 2: the mid nineteen forties I believe forty four, but it's

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Speaker 2: not heavily publicized, and went to school there. After graduating,

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Speaker 2: she immediately moved to New York City, turned down a

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Speaker 2: job with CIA, got into the fashion industry on the

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Speaker 2: design and advertising side, and by the mid seventies she

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Speaker 2: was working as an advertiser director for this big textiles company.

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Speaker 2: There are fewer, like really concrete details about her, but

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Speaker 2: I have this idea that when the two of them met,

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Speaker 2: Lukens was just this like very creative and slightly overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: human who was just really just really into food and cooking,

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Speaker 2: and Rosso was a super driven, very Manhattanite type of

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Speaker 2: like brassy, bon vivant business executive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they do have that kind of vibe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about them. Both of them have a

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Speaker 2: little bit of the vibe. But yeah, yeah, yes, I

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Speaker 2: really really wish I could have gone to a party

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Speaker 2: with them in like nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, me too.

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Speaker 2: The shop, the Silver Palette, has since closed, but a

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Speaker 2: line of branded shelf stable food products carries on without

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Speaker 2: lukens and vasso. The company, called Silver Palate Kitchens, currently

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Speaker 2: offers pasta and pizza, sauces, salad dressings, rough milled oatmeal

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Speaker 2: and jarred olives, marachino cherries, capers, and cocktail onions. They

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Speaker 2: also run a few other packaged food brands that do

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Speaker 2: other cereals, condiments and sauces. Yeah, and okay, a little

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Speaker 2: bit about this book, so if you've never interacted with it,

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Speaker 2: its cover is done in maroon and white with this

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Speaker 2: crosshatch pattern in the background and in a photo of

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Speaker 2: the Silver Palette storefront just brimming with like beautiful foods

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Speaker 2: and these lush live plants, so many pogonias. And the

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Speaker 2: sections in the book take you through appetizers, soups, pastas,

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Speaker 2: main courses, vegetables, salads, cheeses, breads, desserts, and brunch. It's

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Speaker 2: so it's so nineteen eighties, it's so nineteen eighty. The

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Speaker 2: book is the paperback version, which is the common one,

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Speaker 2: is three hundred and sixty two pages, including the index,

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Speaker 2: with some three hundred plus recipes. The pages are printed

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Speaker 2: mainly in black and white, with no photography, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of illustrations this right, sort of like folksy hand

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Speaker 2: drawn vibe that's more garnish than explanatory. All hand drawn

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Speaker 2: by Lukens. The pages are laid out in this two

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Speaker 2: column format, with a large column at the outside of

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Speaker 2: each page and a skinny one on the inside, like

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Speaker 2: two thirds to one third thereabouts. The large outer columns

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Speaker 2: contain the recipes, and the inner ones are reserved for

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Speaker 2: notes about various things, advice for entertaining, instructions on how

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Speaker 2: to select special ingredients like good olives, quotes from various writers,

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Speaker 2: suggested menus and drink pairings, stuff like that, and those

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Speaker 2: inner notes are often printed in this nice, deep red

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Speaker 2: to contrast with the rest of the text and match

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Speaker 2: the maroon on the cover. They in fact start the

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Speaker 2: preface with a quote in red from a brilliant sovereign

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Speaker 2: the discovery of a new dish does more for the

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Speaker 2: happiness of mankind than the discovery of a star. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so in this book they talk about celebrating fine

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Speaker 2: ingredients and also what they call peasant food, meaning like

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Speaker 2: homie dishes meant to be shared. I want to give

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Speaker 2: you a quote from that introduction that's really resonating with

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Speaker 2: me from today's perspective, from Lucan's and rosso like our country,

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Speaker 2: our food is truly a blending of ethnic traditions, reflecting

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Speaker 2: a mixture of heritages that we call our own. And

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Speaker 2: that was a lot of it too, like bringing in

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Speaker 2: the multiculturalness of New York City and trying to represent

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Speaker 2: it a little bit in the ingredients and the preparations

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Speaker 2: that they used and whatever it was that they were doing.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty effective. Like if you've ever wondered why

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Speaker 2: on Earth there was a whole decade from like the

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Speaker 2: late eighties to the mid nineties that was just purely

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Speaker 2: flavored with raspberry vineigarette and sun dried tomatoes. It's essentially this.

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Speaker 1: Book's fault or credit to this book, or either either one,

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Speaker 1: depending you can have different opinions.

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Speaker 2: I'm being a little snarky, but no, but yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: credit or blame where to do whichever whichever way you

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Speaker 2: want to look at it. They did write two follow

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Speaker 2: up cookbooks, The Silver Palette Good Times Cookbook and The

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Speaker 2: New Basics, both along similar ish lines. We'll get into

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Speaker 2: those a little bit later on. Well, what about the

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Speaker 2: nutrition do not eat cookbooks? No matter how much food

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Speaker 2: you have spilled on them.

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Speaker 1: Alas, all right, well we have a number for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure. The Silver Palette Cookbook sold two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty thousand copies its first year, which was a

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Speaker 2: record for nineteen eighty two. I think it's up to

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Speaker 2: over three million copies today. And those other two books

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Speaker 2: that they wrote together have sold over a million each,

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Speaker 2: so a lot, a lot. Yeah, oh yeah, and that's

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Speaker 2: not even counting what they published on their own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to ask my mom if she has these.

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Speaker 1: I bet she does. She has like a whole shelf books.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems likely.

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Speaker 1: It seems likely, and we're going to get into the

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Speaker 1: history of why it seems likely we are.

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Speaker 2: But first we're going to take a quick break for

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Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors. Am we're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes,

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Speaker 2: thank you. So, first of all, shout out to Amy

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Speaker 2: Levitt's article over at Eater the Silver Palette Cookbook changed

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Speaker 2: home cooking and pesto consumption as we know it, which

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Speaker 2: was really helpful in putting.

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Speaker 1: Together this outline. Yeah, yes, all right. So in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy one, Shila Lukens started a catering business out of

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Speaker 1: her apartment kitchen located in a very nice apartment in

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Speaker 1: a building on Central Park West called the Dakota.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. To specify, the Dakota is this historic luxury apartment building,

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Speaker 2: like from the late eighteen hundreds that is big and

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Speaker 2: gorgeous and its apartments are variably ridiculous. Like John Lennon

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Speaker 2: and Yoko Ono were her neighbors at the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And and her and her husband actually owned two

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Speaker 2: apartments in the place. Yeah, one for them and one

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Speaker 2: for their kids.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which actually is kind of related to the I

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Speaker 1: don't know the aspiration aspect of this book, which we're

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Speaker 1: going to get more into.

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Speaker 2: Apparently they really got them for a steal.

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Speaker 1: Good for them, Good for them. Luken's was a court

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Speaker 1: on Blue London graduate and at the point was married

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Speaker 1: with two children. She was fairly well traveled, particularly in Europe,

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Speaker 1: the Middle East and the Mediterranean, and those influences played

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Speaker 1: a role in the types of foods that she offered.

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Speaker 1: At first, she called her business the other Woman, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the other woman, with the slogan so delicious, so discreet, and.

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Speaker 2: I deliver Oh my goodness, I know, I know.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly, her early clientele included a lot of young men

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Speaker 1: looking to impress women like see, look at this meal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm capable of having a meal on the table.

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Speaker 1: Look what I can do. And in a lovely twist

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Speaker 1: of fate, one of the women who was impressed was

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Speaker 1: Julie Rosso. At the time, she was an ad director,

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Speaker 1: and after tasting Lucan's cooking, she hired her to cater

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Speaker 1: an event. Lukens made croissants with red and black raspberry use,

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Speaker 1: and this further impressed Rosso and the women struck up

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Speaker 1: a friendship. Looking for a change, Rosso suggested to Lucan's

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Speaker 1: that they can bind their talents and open a gourmet shop.

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Speaker 1: The story goes that at first Lucan shot her down.

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Speaker 1: She resisted for a long time.

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Speaker 2: She was like, no, this is just a funsies thing

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Speaker 2: that I do. This is not a serious thing that

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Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, don't turn this into too much work

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Speaker 2: for me. But Rosso did not give up the idea,

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Speaker 2: and eventually she prevailed and the pair rented a small

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Speaker 2: property a block away from Luken's apartment in nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah at Columbus in seventy third Street, and very small,

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Speaker 2: like one hundred and sixty five square feet. Oh my gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, right, yeah, yeah, that's like fifteen point three

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Speaker 2: square meters. That's so tiny.

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Speaker 1: I covered my mouth.

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Speaker 2: I was aghast, like they could not have possibly built

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Speaker 2: out a kitchen there. So at first they kept cooking

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Speaker 2: in Lucan's apartment.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they would then haul everything over to the shop

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Speaker 1: before they even opened. They were getting positive buzz when

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Speaker 1: they were featured in a peace highlighting businesses transforming the area.

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Speaker 1: The who penned that article ended up naming the then

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Speaker 1: not officially named restaurant after sampling some of the food

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Speaker 1: at a preview, a silver palate. So this person later

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Speaker 1: wrote she did so quote on the spur of the moment,

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Speaker 1: and without monetary compensation. Her name Florence Fabricant. It's so good,

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Speaker 1: that's excellent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, more like fabric can.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I was gonna say, you can't fabricate this. See

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Speaker 1: listeners were always cooking on our own the wavelength and

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Speaker 1: apologies for it. Yeah yeah, yes, anyway, very good, That's

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Speaker 1: what I'll say. Luken's and Rosso originally wanted to name

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Speaker 1: it after a dinersling a seaboard Deluxe, meaning to go,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, they went with silver palette. And another example

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Speaker 1: of for twodous timing. They opened the doors of their

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Speaker 1: restaurant the same day as a free New York Philharmonic

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Speaker 1: concert was happening in Central Park. It was a hot

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Speaker 1: summer day. The ac at the restaurant was busted, but

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Speaker 1: people in the area that were going to the concert

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Speaker 1: maybe they read this piece about their little shop. They

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Speaker 1: were eager to spend about fifty dollars a person for

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Speaker 1: food to eat while in the park watching the concert, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a picnic in the concert, yeah, n

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Speaker 1: in the park, yeah, and watch a concert. They offered

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Speaker 1: items like salmon, moose, and pati and allegedly they sold

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Speaker 1: out of everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, supposedly them selling out of everything was not at

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Speaker 2: all uncommon. That was like basically every day. While browsing

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Speaker 2: through the book in preparation to do this episode, I

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Speaker 2: happened on a picnic menu inspired by this day called

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Speaker 2: the Concert in the Park Picnic. It recommends salmon moose

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Speaker 2: with black bread toasts, a veal roll, asparagus with blueberry vinigarette,

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Speaker 2: spicy sesame, noodles, assorted cheeses and fresh fruit, chocolate moose,

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Speaker 2: and cookies.

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Speaker 1: I mean that does sound nice, right, very fancy, but nice.

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Speaker 2: After their first year, they started up a kitchen in

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Speaker 2: an additional space that they rented behind the shop. Apparently

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Speaker 2: the Dakota building was not happy about them running a

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Speaker 2: kitchen at commercial volume.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, Well, the next four years kept the

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Speaker 2: pair plenty busy.

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Speaker 1: Luken's continued to cook a variety of cuisines for the

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Speaker 1: shop and for catering gigs, while Rosso convinced customers to

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Speaker 1: try things that they may never have heard before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. By all accounts, Rosso was always an amazing marketer.

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Speaker 2: But right in addition to takeaway dishes and desserts and

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Speaker 2: baked goods, they stalked things like imported sausages and cheeses,

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Speaker 2: you know. Like. The idea was generally to fill this

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Speaker 2: growing niche to curate food for people, and perhaps especially

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Speaker 2: working women, which was like low key and new thing

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Speaker 2: at the time, who wanted something good and interesting but

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Speaker 2: were too busy to go exploring or to make it themselves.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and the shop often offered dishes that were new

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Speaker 1: takes on something classically European. The first main course dish

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Speaker 1: they offered at their takeout shop was chicken Marbella, which

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Speaker 1: is still their most popular recipe today, Inspired by dishes

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Speaker 1: that they'd had in Spain. It featured chicken, green olives, capers,

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Speaker 1: and prunes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is hard to explain how pervasive this dish

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Speaker 2: would become at dinner parties later on in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: You can find it online, but briefly, it involves marinating

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Speaker 2: pieces of chicken, like chicken quarters or whatever, along with

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Speaker 2: the prunes, olives and capers overnight in olive oil and

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Speaker 2: red wine vinegar flavored with lots of garlic, oregano, and

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Speaker 2: bay leaves. Then you'd just roast the whole mess with

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Speaker 2: white wine in the pan and a sprinkle of brown

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Speaker 2: sugar of the chicken to give it a sort of

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Speaker 2: a lacquer.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had this?

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Speaker 2: I do not believe I have, but now I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that sounds great.

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Speaker 1: I read a lot of reviews about it, and they

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Speaker 1: were generally pretty positive. They most of them were like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it would work, but it I'd like

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Speaker 1: to try it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, there's I've got a lot of I've

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Speaker 2: got even more bookmarks than I had previously in my parents'

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00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,959
Speaker 2: copies of these books here. But yeah, so this shop

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Speaker 2: was one of the starts of like the foody movement.

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Speaker 2: And we tend to find that term old fashioned and

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Speaker 2: a little bit snobby these days, but at the time

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Speaker 2: it was kind of liked like a joyful revelation. Also

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Speaker 2: note that although little shops like these are pretty abundant now,

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Speaker 2: and you know, like like concepts like like fresh market,

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Speaker 2: our whole foods have like plentiful takeaway options, let alone

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Speaker 2: your like normal everyday grocery store. But this was fairly pioneering.

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Speaker 1: Right, and they had enough success to open a second

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Speaker 1: business in nineteen seventy eight that offered a variety of

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Speaker 1: condiments like blueberry chut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they began by canning a certain number of their

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Speaker 2: like popular homemade condiments for sale just in the shop,

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Speaker 2: you know, flavored vinegars, zucchini pickles, caramel sauce, stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But in nineteen seventy nine they then contracted with a

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Speaker 2: local food packager so that they could expand production and

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Speaker 2: sell in other stores and catalogs as well.

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Speaker 1: They started in sas Fifth Avenue, but soon have their

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Speaker 1: products and locations across the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they got picked up by other companies like Creighton Beryl.

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Speaker 2: This arm of the business became Silver Palate Kitchens, Yes.

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Speaker 1: And on top of that, they produced a newsletter complete

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Speaker 1: with Luken's.

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Speaker 2: Illustrations yet starting also in nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: And this brings us to the book. Yes. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one, the pair had lunch with an editor from

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Speaker 1: Workman Publishing named Barbara Plum, also a great name, and

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Speaker 1: she asked them if they ever considered writing a book.

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Speaker 1: According to a twenty fifteen interview and Epicurius with Rosso,

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Speaker 1: she jumped at the opportunity, ignoring Luken's kicks under the

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Speaker 1: table and immediately lying that you know, yes, We're already

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Speaker 1: working on one. When the editor made it clear she

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Speaker 1: was interested like followed up. The pair got a bottle

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Speaker 1: of scotch and took a weekend to throw together in outline.

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Speaker 1: They continued working on it with the help of store

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Speaker 1: assistant Michael McLaughlin, until they arrived at the finished product,

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Speaker 1: complete with Luken's doodles and quotes.

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Speaker 2: McLaughlin would go on to be a prolific food and

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Speaker 2: recipe writer in his own right too.

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Speaker 1: So the first edition of the Silver Palette Cookbook was

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Speaker 1: published in nineteen eighty two. It took off pretty immediately,

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Speaker 1: thanks in part to a few things. Firstly, they sold

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Speaker 1: the book not only in bookstores, but at the storefronts

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Speaker 1: that carried their products. Workmen featured it as their book

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Speaker 1: club pic, which I kind of love because I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much of a thing that is anymore, but yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they had brand recognition due to those stores and

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Speaker 1: catalogs around the country carrying their products. Plenty of people

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Speaker 1: were familiar with the name, and it quickly became somewhat

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00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: of a marker of a certain type of sophistication and

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Speaker 1: encapsulation of Upper West Side New York lifestyles that Americans

347
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Speaker 1: were exposed to in various media. It was modern, It

348
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: was stepping away from cast roles that called for condensed soup,

349
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Speaker 1: but still accessible. It was very approachable. Like we said,

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Speaker 1: it was like a friend was talking to you. Yeah. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And while it did have some brand loyalty, it appealed

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Speaker 1: to people of all walks of life who might not

353
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Speaker 1: have ever heard of arugula but now knew what it

354
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Speaker 1: was and had a few simple recipes that they could

355
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Speaker 1: use it in. For a lot of people, the recipes

356
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: were something new and maybe did represent this life they'd

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Speaker 1: seen on TV or like to imagine or aspire to,

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00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: and these recipes were doable for them.

359
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

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00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes the ingredients might be hard to get a

361
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: hold of, but overall, these dishes were things that people

362
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: could manage. The recipes were meant to be a jumping

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00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: off point for readers to experiment with and mold to

364
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Speaker 1: their own taste and to what was available and doable

365
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Speaker 1: for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That being said, a lot of the recipes were kind

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Speaker 1: of celebratory and for a crowd, so generally required a

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00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: bit of planning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Often they would include some kind of ingredient

371
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Speaker 2: that like, you know, like addressing that you had to

372
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: make first before you could start. You know, you have

373
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: to infuse your vinegar before you can make your vinegar

374
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 2: atte that you can add to your roasted vegetables. Kind

375
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: of kind of steps like that, but yeah, like again

376
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: in a friendly way, and a lot a lot of

377
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: these recipes were relatively simple but very flavorful. Take for example,

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00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: Duck with forty cloves of garlic. That is the name

379
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 2: of the recipe. What you do is you take you

380
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: take a duck and you roast a whole duck with

381
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: forty cloves of garlic. Then at the end you pureate

382
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: the garlic and make a sauce out of it with

383
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: sherry vinegar, black currant, liqueur, and a stick of butter.

384
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: The recipe serves two Oh.

385
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: All right, so twenty garlic cloves of garlic? Ees?

386
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right right. Not all forty cloves go into

387
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: the I think there's there's six clothes that are in

388
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: the duck. Anyway, I think that those are garnish. So

389
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: it's really only so I can't so it's really only

390
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: seventeen cloves of garlic per per person.

391
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: Oh only seventeen yeah, got it. Listen, Lauren, your vampire,

392
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: yourself would not be doing well.

393
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that might be the dish that does

394
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: me in. But I will say at least the forty

395
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: cloves of garlic is right there in the in the

396
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: recipe title. There's also one just flipping through the book

397
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: that really buries the lead. It's called Linguidi with tomatoes

398
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: and basil, okay, And the description is explaining that it's

399
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: it's a fresh pasta sauce. You know, it's like only

400
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: really just warmed through with the heat of the cooked pasta,

401
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: and you're kind of going like, oh, that sounds so

402
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: light and lovely. And then you get to the ingredient

403
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: list and it calls for a pound of bree cheese

404
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: a pound a pound a pound, like you remove a

405
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: rind from the bree and then and then throw the

406
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: whole bree in chunks in along with like, yes, fresh

407
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: tomato and garlic, and a cup of fresh basil and

408
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: another cup of olive oil. And that is what you

409
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: put the pasta, the hot pasta onto and then toss. Wow,

410
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: for a pound and a half of pasta.

411
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: I want to try it.

412
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 2: Oh, I want to try it desperately.

413
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm invested. I'm a little confused, but I'm very invested.

414
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: Later, oh, one of them, I think it was Luken's,

415
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: did say that, you know, you can, you can cut

416
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: down that olive oil if you wanna, you can maybe

417
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: maybe maybe one of her kids. I'm not totally sure,

418
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but yeah, I was like, yeah, you can

419
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: cut down that olive oil to like a quarter cup

420
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: and be fine.

421
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a quarter cup. It's okay.

422
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 2: But that being said, they did, they did tone it

423
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: down sometimes for this book.

424
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: They did so. Garlic is kind of famously one of

425
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: their go to ingredients, and Lauren pointed out to me

426
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: before we started recording that in some interviews, Rosso was

427
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: prone to perhaps exaggeration, Yeah.

428
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: Just excitement. I think enthusiasm, you.

429
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: Know, yes. But she did share this story in an

430
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: interview with Epicurius, that their copy editor had worked with

431
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: traditional cookbooks and sent them a note back informing them

432
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: that their recipe for ratitude included to much garlic.

433
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: Like twenty five clothes of garlic was what it called for. Yeah,

434
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: and this editor was like, no, like, ladies, naw.

435
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: This is incorrect. That is not what Raditui is. Lukens

436
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: and Rosso adjusted based on the note, decided that they

437
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: liked There's better, and simply responded with something along the

438
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: lines of, sorry, it's not traditional, but we like ours better. Again.

439
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: According to her version of the story.

440
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: I mean to be fair, she doesn't specify the exact

441
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: outcome at the end of that story. I can tell

442
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: you that the outcome was that the published recipe had

443
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: two cloves of garlic. Plus it's yes. But but you know,

444
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: as seen above with the duck, you know, like they

445
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: didn't back off of everything.

446
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: I do think they were very like, do what you will.

447
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: This is look, miss, this is a mere starting point.

448
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what we like. If it doesn't taste

449
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: right to you, you yeah, you figure it out. This

450
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: is for you. I'm not there. Yeah.

451
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: And I also find it really interesting about the time

452
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: this was coming out, the food the cuisine that was

453
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: happening in America when this was coming out, because this

454
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: is when taste we're shifting more towards Mediterranean foods, Middle

455
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Eastern foods, Italian foods, food set the Silver Palette specialized in.

456
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that shift is partially because of the Silver Palette.

457
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: I mean it's not the only reason. You know, like

458
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: their their store and this book we're part of like

459
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: a larger gourmeifying zeitgeist for for sure. But they were

460
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: hugely influential. You know, you can partially blame them for

461
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: Americans knowing what pesto is, which, hilariously Rosso said later

462
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: that she actually didn't think that much of until she

463
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: had some fresh in Italy in like two thousand and

464
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: nine or thereabouts. A quote from Rosso, which she gave

465
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: to the Specialty Food Association upon being given their Lifetime

466
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: Achievement Award in twenty twenty, I think we made international

467
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: flavors understandable. We took a lot of the mystery away

468
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: from what was thought of as exotic, like a musaka

469
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: and pastila. I always say, I'm very proud that I

470
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: made a arugula happen in this country. I brought the

471
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: seeds back from Italy and grew it on my terras.

472
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: I made arugula happen in this country. Is a great croach.

473
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Put that on the throat, pillow own it.

474
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: Right, Oh my goodness, love it.

475
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: It's excellent.

476
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: Their follow up book, The Silver Palette Good Times Cookbook,

477
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: came out in nineteen eighty five. It has four hundred

478
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: and fifty recipes in the same format as the original.

479
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: They developed that one with a caterer by the name

480
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: of Or along with the caterer by the name of

481
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: Sarah Lee Chase. This book is laid out a little

482
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: bit differently. It's split into spring, summer, fall, and winter,

483
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: and they're like seasonal themes around available produce and different holidays.

484
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: It's geared even more towards entertaining and parties. A lot

485
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: of the quotes set out in maroon ankor like song lyrics,

486
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: and in the introduction, which is called a toast to

487
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: the good Times. They talk a bit about the developing

488
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: landscape of American cuisine and entertaining of the time, and

489
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: how it was moving from a perhaps like stuffy obligation

490
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: to something to be approached with fresh enthusiasm and ingenuity.

491
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: That being said, this book is a little bit fussier

492
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: and more cramped. I mean, it is like about the

493
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: same page count as the first book, but with like

494
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: about one hundred more recipes in it. And to me,

495
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: Good Times feels more fashionable and therefore more old fashioned

496
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: now than the original does. Like for some reason, the

497
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: original reads to me as like kind of fresh and

498
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: fun and good Times. I'm like, oh, that's okay, that

499
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: is from nineteen eighty five, goodness migracious. I don't know,

500
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: like it's it's partially I think because it's hearkening to

501
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 2: the style of entertain painting that, you know, while while

502
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: fresh and new, then I think a lot of people

503
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: some forty years later have moved beyond into something even

504
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: more casual and free form. As really only makes sense,

505
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: I suppose. I mean, I don't know, maybe I just

506
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: don't go to the right kind of part parties, like

507
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: certainly in the socioenomic strata that I move in, I

508
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: do not go to these kind of parties. It still

509
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: has some great recipes though, And just for like a

510
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: sliver of an example of the vibe of the Good

511
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 2: Times cookbook, there's this one page in the springtime section,

512
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: single page on which in the margin this stylistic suggestion for,

513
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, if you're throwing a bridge luncheon, decorate your

514
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: invites in your place settings with some colorful ribbon themed

515
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: to like the table decor and the menu. And then

516
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: there's also a menu suggestion for such a luncheon that

517
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: features crab meat, moose, warm sweetbread salad, goat cheese, popovers,

518
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: rhubarb sorbet with orange almond, snails, and a soft blanked

519
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: pair that's just in the margin. On the main part

520
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: of the page, there's that recipe for that sweetbread salad

521
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: which involves asparagus and en dive and watercrests and fresh

522
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: wild mushrooms in a surrel vinigarette. And then also on

523
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: the page there's just this like really nice simple stir

524
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: fry recipe for like e stfry like some asparagus with

525
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 2: fresh ginger and cashews and like a little bit of

526
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: like a sesame soy sauce. Yes, and one of these

527
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: three four. One of these four things is something I

528
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: might conceivably do. The other three. I feel like I'm

529
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: watching a fantasy movie reading about you know.

530
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: I was about to say, can you imagine if back

531
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: when we did our themed meals for dungeons and Dragons,

532
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: showed up with this. It's like I read it in

533
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: this cookbook.

534
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I would have been like,

535
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 2: I don't have the right gloves for this occasion, that

536
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: I don't don't have any hat.

537
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: That's true. Lauren never did bring the look.

538
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: No I didn't. I didn't.

539
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: There's still time.

540
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: There you go, there you go anyway. Yeah, I wanted

541
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: to cover that briefly, Okay. Starting in nineteen eighty six,

542
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: Lukens and Russo were it became the co editors for

543
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: the food section of this Sunday newspaper magazine called Parade,

544
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: having taken over from Julia Child. Wow, yep, yep, no

545
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: pressure there. Meanwhile, business at the shop was booming by

546
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 2: the publication of the Good Times cookbook in nineteen eighty five.

547
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: They had like a real kitchen and two floors of

548
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: offices to accommodate a staff of forty people. They were

549
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: catering a lot and producing food for the shop and

550
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: doing one hundred and ten packaged condiments and stuff to

551
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 2: send out stores. Silver Palette food products were in some

552
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: one thy five hundred stores around the country, plus in Canada, France,

553
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: and Japan. Investors were sniffing around for like mass production opportunities.

554
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: From what I understand, they never even advertised like marketed yes,

555
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: but did not need to advertise. Rosso later told The

556
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: New York Times that running the business was quote like

557
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: having a baby or a passionate.

558
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: Love whoa I know right.

559
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: Ugh. Behind the scenes, however, the pair were struggling because

560
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: they were women and this was nineteen eighty five. They

561
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: couldn't get banks to loan them the capital that they

562
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: needed to grow. This was a recurring problem when they

563
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 2: started up. Luken's had to borrow her half of the

564
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: money from her husband because banks wouldn't give it to her.

565
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: But one of Lucan's neighbors at the Dakota helped them

566
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: broker this investment deal with the food manufacturing giant behind

567
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 2: brands like Hellman's and Skippy and Nore. And with that

568
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: letter of intent in hand, they finally got a bank loan,

569
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 2: and then the floor fell out. The company backed out

570
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: of the deal at the eleventh hour, like possibly literally

571
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: at eleven something pm the night before they were supposed

572
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: to sign. Rosso and Luken's couldn't repay the bank's money

573
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: and at that point had to either sell their businesses

574
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: or declare bankruptcy. So they sold to an investment firm

575
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: and agreed to stick around for three years on contract

576
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: to transition to new management. When that contract was up

577
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty eight, they left the shop and the

578
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: related products business. After they left, they published what would

579
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: be their final book together, the New Basics Cookbook, in

580
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, still with Workmen. Publishing all three books

581
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: with Workmen, they waited because they wanted to keep this

582
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 2: book theirs, unattached to the Silver Palette brand. It does,

583
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: like retain the maroon and white theme and details like

584
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: the fonts and the illustrations. It's a lot bigger, though,

585
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: like eight hundred and fifty pages. There are some repeated

586
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: or updated recipes from previous books, but it's mostly what

587
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: it says on the tin, like a more toned down,

588
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: every day sort of cooking guide. New Basics is split

589
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: up into snacks and apps at the beginning, breads, cheeses

590
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: and desserts at the end, and then in the middle

591
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: dishes by ingredient vegetables, grains, beans, seafood, poultry, meats, and

592
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: then a section specifically about grilling. There's like some movement

593
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: towards the lower fat options. Of the three books, it's

594
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: the most encyclopedic and the most practical. It's the one

595
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: that I cook the most from. But I'd say that

596
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: for all that, it's a little bit less less charming.

597
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, just more kind of an encyclopedia as opposed two.

598
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean like it's a really solid cookbook

599
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: and there's nothing that made me kind of like clutch

600
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: my pearls or like or if there is, I haven't

601
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: run across it over the past few days. Yeah, it's

602
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: more like, oh, yeah, that seems like a really solid recipe.

603
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 1: Cool.

604
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: Lukens and Rosso would have a personal falling out sometime

605
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: in the next couple of years after New Basics published,

606
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: which was breathlessly reported in the press around the same time.

607
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety one, Lukens had this health scare with

608
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: a cerebral hemorrhage that partially paralyzed her on her left side.

609
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: She had to do a lot of physical therapy to

610
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: get herself back. The original Silver Palette cookbook was inducted

611
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 2: into the James Beard Cookbook Hall of Fame in nineteen

612
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: ninety two, and after they split, both kept writing. Rosso

613
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 2: published cookbooks like Great Good Food, Luscious Lower Fat Cooking

614
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three and Fresh Start in nineteen ninety six,

615
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: another health conscious theme. Lukens took over the Parade editorship

616
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: and also published cookbooks like her All Around the World

617
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 2: Cookbook in ninety four and USA Cookbook in ninety seven.

618
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: All sold well, though generally speaking, Luken's books were better

619
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 2: received by critics. There was a lot of snark in

620
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: the press about this whole thing. Why yeah, Yeah.

621
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: Well, in nineteen ninety three, the Silver Palette closed its doors.

622
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the shop had been sold again. In the meanwhile,

623
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: Lukens told Vanity Fair in ninety four that the venture

624
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: capitalist type guy who had taken over was nice but

625
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: sort of clueless about the restaurant industry. What she didn't

626
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: say in that interview was he was this young dude

627
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: with big dreams and family money from a nutritional products

628
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: business like weight Watchers stuff and Yeah, if you've ever

629
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: been anywhere near the restaur on industry, this is an

630
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: extremely familiar story. You know, food at the level of

631
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: like catering and a shop and little gourmet chat. Skeis

632
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: is really quite different than any other business and it's

633
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: real easy to run a good concept straight into the ground.

634
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: I guess you could see our episode we did on

635
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: the Menu, which kind of relates to that topic. A

636
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: venture capitalist coming in.

637
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh no, that's right. Yep, there's a huh

638
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: yeah it does. Yep. I left really loud at that part.

639
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: Uh and okay. I actually fibbed a tiny bit about

640
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 2: New Basics being their last book together, because in two

641
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: thousand and seven they did come back together to revamp

642
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: the Silver Palette cookbook for the twenty fifth anniversary. It

643
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: contains full color photos of some of their most famous dishes, yes,

644
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: including chicken Marbella. It's an extra hundred pages and contained

645
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: some three hundred and fifty recipes.

646
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: Lukens died in two thousand and nine.

647
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, brain cancer. She was only sixty six years old,

648
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: and I think it happened really fast, like she was

649
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: diagnosed three months before she passed. At that point, the

650
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: books the three books together had sold some five and

651
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: a half million copies. By spring of twenty fifteen, the

652
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: Silver Palette Cookbook was in its one hundredth printing. Rosso,

653
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 2: who again was originally from Michigan, moved back there in

654
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: the early nineties, having gotten married. Sometime between Good Times

655
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: and New Basics. She and her husband took over this

656
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: really charming like lake town bed and breakfast, the Wickwood Inn,

657
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: and ran it as like a farm to table dining

658
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: destination all the way up until twenty twenty one, when

659
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: they passed the reins. I assume they retired, but yeah,

660
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: she'd still been doing like lectures and cooking classes and

661
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: food industry consulting through the twenty teens at least. And yeah, uh,

662
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: I wanted I wanted to end on a quote from

663
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: that first book that I that I really like. So

664
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: there's there's a theme, and we've touched on this a

665
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: little bit throughout the book, like a line that a

666
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: lot of recipes include is taste and a just seasoning

667
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: if necessary, which seems like basic, like a like a

668
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: basic thing, but if you're not familiar with cooking, it's

669
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: one of those reasons why the book comes off as

670
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: so friendly because it's like, yeah, taste and adjust if necessary.

671
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: Do that. So So, here's a quote that I think

672
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: is exemplary of why this book went so far. It's

673
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: like in the margin on the page with the recipe

674
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: for braised beef short ribs. Okay, it's sort of a

675
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: long one. Bear with me. There is one rule in

676
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: our kitchen made in the very beginning which still holds true.

677
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: When cooking, you must taste. To think that you can

678
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: follow a recipe and do today what you did yesterday

679
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: is erroneous. A good cook needs to be able to

680
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: taste and trust his or her own judgment only through

681
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: developing taste, and we stress developing. No one is born

682
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 2: with this kind of silver spoon. Can you begin to

683
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: trust your cooking self? Don't be afraid to taste. It

684
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: is the only way we know to understand food, to

685
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: know how to experiment, to build our own confidence. Treat

686
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 2: it like two pieces of a puzzle. If you try

687
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: it and it doesn't work, what has been lost. If

688
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: it does, perhaps you can improve upon it the next time.

689
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: To follow a recipe repeatedly because it is safe, tried

690
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: and true, and from a reliable source is boring and impersonal.

691
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 2: Take our recipes, make them your own, and improve upon them.

692
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: That will be our greatest pleasure.

693
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: I love that. I think I love the idea of

694
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: having basic understanding and a place to start from. Yeah,

695
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: But then adding, you know what, I don't necessarily like this,

696
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: or I can't.

697
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: Access this right I don't have it, I don't feel

698
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: like going to the store right now to get it,

699
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 2: or I have this other thing that I'm curious about.

700
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: What would happen if I did, you know.

701
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, experimenting and then learning from the experiment. Maybe it

702
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: was a complete failure in the sense you don't want

703
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: to eat it, but you learned. Okay, that didn't work

704
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: at all.

705
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

706
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: I really like that take on it, because I feel

707
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: like some cookbooks can be so stuffy in that you

708
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: have to do it this way. Mm hm, it has

709
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: this and if you can't succeed in that, if your

710
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: cheesecake cracks, then you have failed as a human person,

711
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: and get out of here.

712
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: It can it can It can feel intimidating, and and

713
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: these do feel like like knowledgeable but friendly, like, hey,

714
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 2: maybe you don't know about these different kinds of pushido,

715
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: let me tell you.

716
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you're having people over, Yes, what you do?

717
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Yeah, leave the tail on the shrimp

718
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 2: because it makes them look a little bit bigger. And

719
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: put out a number of large seashells that have that

720
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 2: have lillies in the center for your guests to leave

721
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: their shrimp tails in. Really, that was advice that I read.

722
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 2: Your cheese parties are going to go up a level.

723
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: Lauren.

724
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm not positive that's advice I'm gonna be taken,

725
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: but uh, but I appreciate that they took the time

726
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: to write it down.

727
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: Did you find when you were looking back through them

728
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 1: or their recipes that caught your eye that you thought, Oh,

729
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: I should I want to make those oh billions?

730
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like a lot of them and like a

731
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 2: lot of them really are very simple kinds of like oh,

732
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: like I hadn't entirely like why haven't I thought to

733
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: cook whatever it is that way? Why haven't I thought

734
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: to put it with that kind of sauce? Why haven't

735
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: I thought? And you know kind of like what like

736
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: like like when we were talking to Julia, like like

737
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: why like I have all of this time in my garden,

738
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: it would probably be happy if I trimmed it down

739
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 2: a little bit. Why don't I make some time vinegar

740
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 2: so that I can use that for vinegarrettes, that I

741
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: can use that to dress my roast vegetables.

742
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm looking forward to hearing more about your ventures.

743
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they are. All three of them are like again,

744
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: the one that I cook like like literally cook from

745
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 2: or not literally. I never follow a recipe literally, but

746
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: the one, the one I find most useful in my

747
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: like week to week life, is New Basics. But but yeah,

748
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: whenever I want concepts for flavors, those are These are

749
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: like the first three books I pull off the shelf.

750
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: I love it. I'll have to borrow them from you

751
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: or something. I don't know, but.

752
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah we can. Copies are available. We can

753
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: work this out.

754
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: Yes, I did really enjoy reading about kind of the

755
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: the like New York five of when the first one

756
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: came out of how people were like, oh, I want

757
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: to be like when Harry met Sally. Yeah, well let

758
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: me cook something out of this cookbook.

759
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's weird. It's weird, like what a

760
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 2: like what a very specific what a very specific time? Yes,

761
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: And there's also like a lot of like glimmers of

762
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: I don't know, uh, Sex and the City or like

763
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: American Psycho.

764
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, those two things, those two very related things. No,

765
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: there's sort of a aspirational New York life.

766
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: Yes, however that might appear, Yes, there there you go.

767
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: Indeed. Indeed, well you know, listeners, we love hearing from

768
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 1: you about cookbooks, about your experiences with them, about your

769
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: favorite rest peace in them. Please let us know.

770
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, we would. We would genuinely

771
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: love to hear from you. But that is about all

772
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: we have to say about the Silver Palette for now.

773
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though,

774
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon

775
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for

776
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors.

777
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And

778
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: we're back with listen. I've showed you a picnic and

779
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: then I don't know what happened.

780
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 2: Sure that that seems picnicky? Absolutely?

781
00:53:54,040 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, okay, good wow, listeners. As you know, we've

782
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: had some kind of message mayhem in our e yeah,

783
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: our inbox, uh, and we're trying to grapple with it.

784
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: But essentially a bunch of messages were going to jump mail,

785
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: and we didn't realize for a while. So Joe wrote

786
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: in a message that was perhaps lost, thank you for

787
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: rescending it.

788
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, huh.

789
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: Yes, so Joe wrote. Two years ago, I was able

790
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: to visit a friend who lives into Loose, France, which

791
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: is known as the City of Violets. To Lose indeed

792
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: host a violet festival, though it was too late for

793
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: it during my visit. Even without the festival, there is

794
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: still no escaping the violets and to Lose. Most of

795
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: the shops carry some sort of violet product. Violet soaps,

796
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: candied violet pedals, violet chocolates, you name it. I get

797
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: overwhelmed by floral since very easily and don't particularly like

798
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: them in my food, so that part wasn't for me.

799
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 1: I'll leave the violet chocolates to my friend. I did

800
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: buy a bar of violet soap for my mom and

801
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: a tea towel for myself. It has the word to

802
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: Lose and violet flowers embroidered on it. I think of

803
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: that lovely time with my friends every time I use it.

804
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: The LEAs Miserrob mentioned sent me down a rabbit hole

805
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: I've loved the musical since I was a kid, and

806
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: in high school I attempted to read the book in

807
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: both English and French. That endeavor was eventually abandoned because boy,

808
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: oh boy, does Victor Hugo love talking about the Parisian

809
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: sewage system, and there's only so much I want to

810
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: know about it. In any case, that part of Fatine's

811
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: story is misinterpreted if people are thinking it's romantic. Fatine

812
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: is on her deathbed and she's thinking about her daughter Cosette.

813
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 1: She had to give up so that she could live

814
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: a better life. The song was one she would sing

815
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: to Cosette to get her to sleep. Here's where it

816
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: gets weird. The Project Gutenberg version of Les Miz that

817
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: I used to find that section and confirm the context

818
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: says the following roses are pink, cornflowers are blue, I

819
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: love my love and cornflowers are blue. Baffled, I turned

820
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: to the French version, also on Project Gutenberg, and this

821
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: is what it said. Les Bluette's song blue les Rose

822
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: sen Rose Bluettes translates to cornflowers or even blueberries, not

823
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: a violet in sight. I'm now tempted to hunt down

824
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 1: other versions to see how the song's been translated. Where

825
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: did the violets go?

826
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 2: I love this kind of thing.

827
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: I did too. Please let us know if you figure

828
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: it out.

829
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's little those little things of translation, like right,

830
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: like and how does how does that rhyme go? In

831
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: other languages?

832
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've spoken before about the language of flowers.

833
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: But also just when something gets translated like that, there's

834
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: usually there's a lot of other meaning that gets taken on,

835
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: or some other meaning that wasn't.

836
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, some association, some yeah, connotation.

837
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: That roses might mean something different based on whatever culture

838
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: you're in. I'm fascinated by this. I'm legitimately hoping that

839
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: you write back in about it. Yeah.

840
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I've never been super into lame miss, but yeah,

841
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 2: I have that honestly, the Parsian sewage system is mostly

842
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: what I've heard about in people talking about the novel,

843
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: which I love. Shout out Victor Hugo, what a weirdo.

844
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: But oh my goodness, that violet festival.

845
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I'm I'm glad you brought this email

846
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: back when it was in our jucktmail when we missed it,

847
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: because this was a good throwback about the violet episode

848
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,919
Speaker 1: and all of the products that you could get, yes,

849
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: violet based products.

850
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also tend to scent in general can be

851
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 2: very overwhelming for me, and violet is one of them

852
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 2: that if it's in a soap kind of way, I'm

853
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 2: not interested. But I do like it in candies. I

854
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: do like it in foods like candies or a gelato

855
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 2: or a chocolate sort of situation. So I hope it

856
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: wasn't terrible for you. It sounds it sounds at least

857
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: visually delightful.

858
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think it sounds like you had

859
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: a great time.

860
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

861
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,439
Speaker 1: Now I'm very happy. I'm very happy to hear about this.

862
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that we rediscovered your email. So

863
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: thank you.

864
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yes, yes, yes yes. If anyone else never

865
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: got a response from I say us, but I mean Annie,

866
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 2: Annie's the one who helms the email, then yeah, yeah,

867
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: please feel free to resend. That would be delightful. Thank you.

868
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 2: Julie wrote, you asked about college cuisine, so here's my bit.

869
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: My approach to cooking in college was like the cooking

870
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: show Chop a few decades before it was invented, namely

871
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: using whatever I happened to have in the cupboard and fridge.

872
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: With a focus on leftovers, I needed to stretch my

873
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: food budget and discovered I could put almost anything into

874
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 2: an omelet using whatever bits of ingredients I had left.

875
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: I used that same approach to create other random dishes. Recently,

876
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 2: I came across this delightful gem of a recipe I

877
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: made up in spite of my current revulsion at the

878
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 2: combination of some of its ingredients. It must have been

879
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: tasty enough for me to actually bother writing it down.

880
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 2: Photo of recipe is attached. It is for Julie's mystery

881
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 2: tuna loaf. It calls for canned tuna, rings of pineapple,

882
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 2: some cheddar and Swiss cheese, eggs and milk, leftover peas

883
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: or corn, some bread, a couple other things that I'm

884
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: not entirely positive I can read. Yeah, it's it's like

885
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: a meatloaf, but a tuna looaf, sure, Julie continues. When

886
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: I showed it to my daughter, she laughed and thought

887
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 2: it sounded disgusting. I'm not even a fan of Swiss

888
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: cheese or hot pineapple, so I'm guessing it was my

889
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 2: roommate's contribution. We used to take turns cooking dinner. Her

890
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: cooking was more shall we say, conventional. Mine was always

891
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 2: a surprise, but she ate it with good humor. I

892
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: also wanted to comment on the cottage cheese episode a

893
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,919
Speaker 2: little late. I have, for most of my sixty six

894
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: years been a particular consumer of cheese of the cottage,

895
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 2: as my daughter used to call it. I've tried many

896
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: brands over the years, but the one thing I insist

897
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: upon is that they have no bean gums or other

898
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: additives besides milk, cream or salt. Call me a cottage

899
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: cheese purist. I am willing to spend more for the

900
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: better kinds, as there's really no comparison with the cheaper ones.

901
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: I also don't like soupy ones with too much liquid

902
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: in them. It should have some body for me. It's

903
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: a breakfast staple eaten on its own, though occasionally with

904
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 2: sprouts if eaten with lunch. I've never been a fan

905
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: of eating it with fruit. My daughter tells me that

906
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: cottage cheese is a thing now, which I find amusing.

907
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: I guess old things sometimes get a glow up. I

908
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: really enjoy your podcast and the variety of subjects you too,

909
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 2: find a feature. I always learned something new and often

910
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: get some laughs as well. Oh thank you, yes, oh

911
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: thank you. Yeah, oh we're so glad. Yeah uh yeah,

912
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm horrified. I am gleefully horrified by this creation. I

913
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't I wouldn't not try it.

914
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: I this is fantastic.

915
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how much of it I would consume voluntarily.

916
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm so intrigued because we and listeners please keep writing in.

917
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: We asked for what are you doing? What did you

918
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: do when you were in college?

919
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

920
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: And you were figuring things out maybe, oh sure, strict budget.

921
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, we're all kind of

922
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: like like little little you know, raw cookie do people

923
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 2: at that point. Yeah, to paraphrase Buffy and yeah, so

924
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean you were trying stuff out.

925
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: You were, you were. This is when I look back

926
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: on what I did in college. This is much more experimental.

927
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what I was doing. I do like that

928
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: you have the addition of your roommate, kind of the

929
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: like wild Cary might have influenced how this happened, but

930
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: you wrote it down. It was good enough. It was

931
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: good enough down. No judgment, just curiosity.

932
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh no, zero judgment, absolutely not and I

933
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: enjoy being horrified, so.

934
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: I do. Speaking to the college experience, it is fun

935
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: to look back, at least in my case, on the

936
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: kind of roommate, who's cooking what situation?

937
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did learn some stuff from my roommate, sure, absolutely, Yeah,

938
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 2: she was doing a whole different thing than what I

939
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: was doing. Yeah, fascinating me around. We made Hobbits dou

940
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 2: hobbits do. Yeah, that was pretty good.

941
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: It was mostly just whatever we had, and you put

942
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: it in a SUPERI that's hobby.

943
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure right, Yeah, I agree with all of your

944
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: cottage cheese notes. By the way, this is also how

945
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: I purchase cottage cheese. Yeah. I like some liquid, but

946
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 2: not too much. If it has no liquid, i'm mad.

947
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 2: I'd you need a specific ratio. Yeah, yeah, but I

948
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 2: don't like the texture. Once they've added some kind of

949
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 2: texturizer that's supposed to make me like the texture, I'm like, nah, yeah,

950
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: they're trying too hard at that point. Yeah.

951
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: I do love that your daughter told you it's a

952
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: thing now, which it is. She's not wrong, she's correct. Yeah,

953
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: but that is quite funny, quite funny. Indeed.

954
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 2: Oh oh my goodness, how how wonderful? Thank you Yes.

955
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: Thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.

956
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can

957
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: or email us hello at Saber. We are also on

958
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: social media.

959
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram and Blue Sky at

960
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 2: savor pod and we do hope to hear from you.

961
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 2: Save is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from

962
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

963
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as

964
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

965
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

966
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way