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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, the Variety podcast, in which we

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Speaker 1: talked with some of the brightest minds working in media today.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. It's been a little over

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Speaker 1: a year since Adam Bold bought his way into the

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Speaker 1: talent agency business when he became chairman of the Abrams

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Speaker 1: Artists Agency, and it's been in an eventful year to

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Speaker 1: say the least, considering the standoff between the talent agencies

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Speaker 1: and the Writer's Guild. So it's good to have Adam

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Speaker 1: here to offer his perspective on a situation that it's

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Speaker 1: close to home. Thanks for being here, Andy, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me cool so we should know right off the top.

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Speaker 1: In November, Abrams became the latest midsize agency to sign

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Speaker 1: the Code of Conduct. This is the same document the

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Speaker 1: major agency has refused to sign as the Writer's look

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Speaker 1: to end packaging fees and affiliated production. So why did

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Speaker 1: Abrams sign? Well, things are different now than they were

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Speaker 1: in the In the beginning of this impasted I guess

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Speaker 1: that it's not a strike, it's a it's an impast

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Speaker 1: whatever we want to call it. But um, the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is that in the beginning, UM, the A T

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Speaker 1: A that the Talent Agents Association was empowered to negotiate

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Speaker 1: on behalf of all of the member agencies with the

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Speaker 1: w g A, and at that time UM, once again

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Speaker 1: they were there negotiating on behalf of all the members.

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Speaker 1: Things have changed, Number one, it's been a long time.

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Speaker 1: I think it started perhaps in March February or March.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's a lot of people who just

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Speaker 1: aren't working UM. And there are a lot of shows

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Speaker 1: that aren't being pitched, and even the ones that are,

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Speaker 1: it's not quite exactly the same as it was before.

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Speaker 1: They've had some success, but limited, uh, and not as

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Speaker 1: much success as as in the traditional methodology that that

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Speaker 1: things were done. So is this I mean, has it

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Speaker 1: been damaging to your business to have writers out on

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Speaker 1: the sidelines this long well look is damaging to their right?

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Speaker 1: So damaging? I'm not sure? You know. Financially UM the company,

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Speaker 1: the Abrams Artist Agency, like most of the midsized agencies,

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Speaker 1: we have our strengths and we have parts of the

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Speaker 1: business that were traditionally financially important. UM Abrams in the

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Speaker 1: lit department was that wasn't really a strength of Abrams

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Speaker 1: one point. Oh, it's something we very very intently and

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Speaker 1: strongly UM wanted to be for Abrams two point oh

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Speaker 1: so financially we didn't really lose that much in terms

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Speaker 1: of that, but UM, still there are The let department

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Speaker 1: is really the heart of an agency because our our

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Speaker 1: talent clients are actors, need projects, scripts to to to

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Speaker 1: make content with. And UM, you know it. It certainly

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Speaker 1: has slowed UM the amount of shows that are being pitched, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: UM I think that, UM so hurt. I don't think

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Speaker 1: hurt is quite the word, but certainly impeded the progress

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Speaker 1: that we could be doing. Does Abraham's package shows We don't. UM.

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Speaker 1: It's never really been an important part of the company's

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Speaker 1: financials and quite honestly, going forward, UM, it was not

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Speaker 1: really a big part of UM of our our financial

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Speaker 1: plans or what I've been looking for. So UM, I

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Speaker 1: think it's interesting this this the whole concept of packaging.

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Speaker 1: I think it is worth having a discussion about because

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Speaker 1: the term packaging now has a negative connotation to it.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that the actual concept of what

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Speaker 1: a package is supposed to be, the way it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to work, is actually a good one. And and UM,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll get in In a moment, I'll get

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Speaker 1: to why it actually didn't work out that way. But um,

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Speaker 1: there's an industry statistic that of all shows that make

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Speaker 1: it to television, which is, you know, one tenth of

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Speaker 1: one iota of all shows that actually are written or

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Speaker 1: purchased or whatever the case of them that actually make

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Speaker 1: it to air don't get renewed for a second season.

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Speaker 1: And the second season is important and it's because uh,

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Speaker 1: locks kick in, and um, you have opportunities for escalations

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of good things can happen when you

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Speaker 1: get to the second season. So when you say Locke,

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Speaker 1: you mean specifically so the writers, um, the creators of

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Speaker 1: the show. Um. Then the network may have an opportunity

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Speaker 1: after one in the first season if they don't like

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Speaker 1: how things are going to replace them with others. After

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Speaker 1: when you get to the second season, usually the actors

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Speaker 1: are attached permanently. The writers, the producers, etcetera. Are there

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Speaker 1: are locked to the show. And that's important because you know,

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Speaker 1: after all said and done, well we're all about. What

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Speaker 1: a talent agency is supposed to do is to keep

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Speaker 1: our clients working as much as possible and making as

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Speaker 1: much money as possible, and so um by having those

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Speaker 1: locks it, it gives our clients a more predictable stream

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Speaker 1: of income to be able to pay their bills and

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Speaker 1: support their families after after that happens. And so when

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Speaker 1: we can take a writer that we know we'll get

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Speaker 1: their pages in on time and it's capable and gets

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Speaker 1: along with everybody and won't cause problems around the set.

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Speaker 1: And we have um our showrunner who we know will

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Speaker 1: deliver a show on time, on budget and give a

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Speaker 1: good deliverable. And we have our actors who we know

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Speaker 1: have chemistry together because think about how many times you've

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Speaker 1: seen something and the cast is amazing and then it

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Speaker 1: ends up being terrible because it just doesn't work for

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Speaker 1: some reason. All of those things together increase the odds

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Speaker 1: of a good deliverable, that a good piece of content,

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Speaker 1: which then in turn increases the odds of that TV

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Speaker 1: show making to the second season when all these other

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Speaker 1: good things happen. And that's sort of concept of packaging

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Speaker 1: for the sole purpose of delivering a good piece of content.

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Speaker 1: I think that that that's okay. Now, what's in that business, No, no,

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Speaker 1: to the to that to the extent of what a

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Speaker 1: package has become okay, okay, so in and to some

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Speaker 1: extent we do. We have we'll have one of our

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Speaker 1: writers and we'll go, oh my gosh, you know this,

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Speaker 1: this talent Klin of ours would love this. And when

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Speaker 1: you have a major talent attached to a project with

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Speaker 1: a good writer and a good script, it makes it

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Speaker 1: more a sailable right, increases the odds of the financial

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Speaker 1: success of that. And after all said down, we're just

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Speaker 1: trying to keep people working and to make as much

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Speaker 1: money doing the job that they want to do as possible. Now,

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Speaker 1: what kind of got lost along the way? And what

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Speaker 1: what I think the w g A is really talking

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Speaker 1: about when they when they talk about we don't want packages,

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Speaker 1: is that, um, there were scenarios whereby the agencies, through

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Speaker 1: lack of transparency, nobody really knew who was in the

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Speaker 1: package and who wasn't in the package. Nobody really knew

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Speaker 1: who was benefiting from that package, and there were actually

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Speaker 1: scenarios where an agency could end up making more money

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Speaker 1: from their package fees than all of their clients put together.

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Speaker 1: And because of that lack of transparency, what happened is

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Speaker 1: people go, hmm, I wonder if this is if I'm

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Speaker 1: in this package because if I'm part of this project

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Speaker 1: because it's good for me, Or am I part of

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Speaker 1: this package because it's good for my agency? Am I

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Speaker 1: getting the most money possible for this project? Or did

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Speaker 1: they just get me the easiest you know, do the

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Speaker 1: least amount of work to to to get me to

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Speaker 1: to do this? And there were there's clearly on a

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Speaker 1: spell rom from everything was hunky dory, but because of

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Speaker 1: the lack of transparency, it created an opportunity for some

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Speaker 1: concern all the way to there were I'm sure some

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Speaker 1: instances where the agencies actually really didn't care about their

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Speaker 1: clients and did whatever was best for the agency. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know that for a fact. I wasn't part

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Speaker 1: of it. But that's why it's become so bad and

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Speaker 1: so quite honestly, we don't need it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: going to become less and less important as time goes

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Speaker 1: on because of the way that media is distributed now

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Speaker 1: is it's so fractured, and so I don't care, don't

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Speaker 1: need it now. That doesn't mean that we still won't

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Speaker 1: put groups of people together in a collaborative way, but

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Speaker 1: not in a package as it's become so. But if

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Speaker 1: you're not doing packaging. Why did you guys take longer

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Speaker 1: than some of the other agencies of your size to

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Speaker 1: sign this code of conduct? Some of the other agencies

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Speaker 1: were there months before you. Well, it was a few reasons.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it was the document itself. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the concept, because we were willing to say we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do packaging right from from the get go. Um. The

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Speaker 1: problem was that there were other things that were in

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Speaker 1: that document. So, for example, there's a requirement in the

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Speaker 1: w g a's Code of Conduct that contractually requires us

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Speaker 1: as an agency to send to them a copy of

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Speaker 1: every one of our w g A covered clients um

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Speaker 1: invoices and their contracts um And in the beginning, the

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Speaker 1: contract was was written in such a way that even

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Speaker 1: if a client said I don't want you to do that, agency,

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Speaker 1: we were specifically required to do it. And it put

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Speaker 1: us in a situation where we had a conflict between

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Speaker 1: the contractual obligation we have with the w g A

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Speaker 1: and the fiduciary responsibility that we have to our clients.

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Speaker 1: And I'm never ever going to make a choice that

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Speaker 1: goes against our clients. Everything we do is it starts

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Speaker 1: with what's best for the A second part of that

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Speaker 1: of the reasoning was that at the in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: the a t A was in active negotiations with the

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Speaker 1: w g A on behalf of all of the members

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Speaker 1: of the A t A that UM earlier in late

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Speaker 1: summer that ended, and so UH that we as as

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Speaker 1: an individual agency were UM empowered then to make a

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Speaker 1: deal whatever we thought was best for for our business.

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Speaker 1: And then UM number three there was there were other

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Speaker 1: requirements like UM they were I was concerned about the

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Speaker 1: data security. UM. When we send a contract to the

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Speaker 1: w J, I didn't know who was going to get it.

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Speaker 1: Could there could be a file clerk, there could be

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Speaker 1: it could be floating all around. And clearly the privacy

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Speaker 1: of someone to keep their earnings private is part of

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Speaker 1: our the fundamental business practices in the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: UM that w J has has firmed things up since then,

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Speaker 1: UM in terms of protocols, etcetera, to make sure that

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Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. So there's there's certainly other issues here

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Speaker 1: besides packaging. You know, we're having this conversation just days

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Speaker 1: before a U. S. District judge will consider the w

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Speaker 1: g AS motion to dismiss the agency's lawsuits on the

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Speaker 1: grounds that as a labor union it's exempt from antitrust scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: This is going to the courts. What does that mean

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Speaker 1: for Abrams And just how do you see this situation

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Speaker 1: playing out? Considering how out of control the standoff seems

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Speaker 1: to have been, so that that that's a that's another

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Speaker 1: part of this whole kind of But the reason that

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Speaker 1: we we signed the agreement now is that the the

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Speaker 1: biggest issues, the biggest conflicts between the guild and the

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Speaker 1: those issues really revolve around the biggest of the big

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Speaker 1: talent agencies and don't really affect us to a large degree.

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Speaker 1: And what what does affect us is our clients. These

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Speaker 1: are people that that right shows the right movies that

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Speaker 1: that right projects that and we want to put those

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Speaker 1: people back to work. And since um, since most of

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Speaker 1: those issues don't revolve around us, and since it appears

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Speaker 1: that it's going to need legal resolution, it's going to

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Speaker 1: take a long time. And so what all we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do is I'm not making any kind of social

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Speaker 1: commentary on whether I think the w g A is

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Speaker 1: more right legally or whether the A t A is

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Speaker 1: more right legally, it's like we're going to get back

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Speaker 1: to business to support our clients and to support the

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Speaker 1: are the employees of the of the Abrams Artist Agency

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Speaker 1: do point out, and we're in the meantime, when those

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Speaker 1: larger issues get resolved, then we're willing to accept whatever

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Speaker 1: those two big parties work out together. Um. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it appears to me that there's certainly um competing

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Speaker 1: interests between the larger agencies in the guild. There are certainly, um,

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Speaker 1: there's animals. I'm not sure animosity is the right word,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's business animosity, Um, there's there's there's definitely

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Speaker 1: a an adversarial relationship, and because of that is they're

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Speaker 1: going to use the courts they I don't think those

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Speaker 1: at least as we sit here today, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that the two can sit down and actually work out

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Speaker 1: a compromise, which is you know, um my dad always

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Speaker 1: says that a successful compromises when both parties are satisfied,

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Speaker 1: nobody's happy, and you know, I think they'll end up

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Speaker 1: with that at some point. But I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: it's got to the point where it's it's just going

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Speaker 1: to take them a while and in the meantime, we

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Speaker 1: just want to get people back to work and and

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Speaker 1: being able to pay their bills and have health insurance

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Speaker 1: and make their house payments, etcetera. Well, I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: all this and saying to myself, Man, agency business is rough.

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Speaker 1: And then I say to myself, wait a second. A

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Speaker 1: guy I'm standing across from here bought his way into

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Speaker 1: this business a few years ago. Why why were you

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Speaker 1: interested in getting Because must be clear from your background

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Speaker 1: you were not in the entertainment business more than well,

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Speaker 1: you were in a different capacity. We'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: But as a as a proprietor or principal, you weren't

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Speaker 1: in this business. So what attracted you to this, especially

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Speaker 1: at a time where there were so many clouds hovering.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't set out to be and I never said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to be in the talent business and or

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Speaker 1: I want to have a talent agency, And in fact

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Speaker 1: I'm still not. I'm not an agent. UM. I've never

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Speaker 1: been to the OSCARS. I don't want to go to

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Speaker 1: the Oscars. I don't want to go to premiers. I

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Speaker 1: don't um. I'm not involved in the talent representation part

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Speaker 1: of the business. I'm a I'm a business guy. Um.

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Speaker 1: What happened was a very very dear friend of mine said, hey, Adam,

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Speaker 1: will you take a meeting with these guys? And we're

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Speaker 1: close enough that I'll take a meeting that he wants

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Speaker 1: me to take without asking who or why. UM, And

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Speaker 1: it turns out that that the two gentlemen I met

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Speaker 1: with are are my partners now, Brian Show and Robert Aderman,

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Speaker 1: who were then the CFO and CEO of the Abrams

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Speaker 1: Artist Agency, and Harry Abrams, the uh founder of the company.

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Speaker 1: UM had always told them that one day when he retired,

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Speaker 1: that he would sell them the business. He Um, in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, walked in one day and said, Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: sold the company to these private equity guys. You guys

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Speaker 1: need to go make a deal with them. And they said, well, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, UM, how about if we could make

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Speaker 1: you the same deal, would you sell it to us instead?

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Speaker 1: And so he did, he said he would, and UM,

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Speaker 1: we were introduced, and UM it made a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: They knew the agency business, I knew the financial business,

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Speaker 1: how to how to Actually, I've I've over them a

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Speaker 1: serial entrepreneurs, so I've I've bought, sold, started, built lots

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Speaker 1: of businesses over the years, and UM that that's really

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Speaker 1: my strength. And I saw a lot of opportunity UM

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Speaker 1: this industry because I really saw the need for and

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Speaker 1: old school specialty style agency that we're really fierce advocates

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Speaker 1: for their clients. UM. That thought in a way that

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Speaker 1: is as much technology company as it is UM an

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Speaker 1: agency company, and a place where UM, all of the

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Speaker 1: departments of the agency would collaborate to keep our clients

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Speaker 1: working as much as possible and to make as much

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Speaker 1: money as possible, regardless of what source that came from.

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Speaker 1: We don't we the verticals, UM and UM it it

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Speaker 1: happened well. And so it sounds it doesn't sound as

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Speaker 1: if like you're vision of Abrahams two point out was

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Speaker 1: necessarily reinventing how agencies work. It sounds like it's about

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Speaker 1: being the best possible agency. But this is still a

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Speaker 1: time where people seem to be looking at agencies and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: if they diversify away from their core business, then there's

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Speaker 1: something there. Well, look, UM, here's the thing. The the

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Speaker 1: traditional model of Okay, let's go get a client a

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Speaker 1: gig on a TV show, and we get ten percent.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that TV as we know it is changing.

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Speaker 1: I met with somebody the other day and they told

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Speaker 1: me that, um, the four networks, the four major networks,

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Speaker 1: are losing eight of their viewership quarter over quarter, and

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Speaker 1: that in the second quarter of two thousand nineteen, the

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Speaker 1: total share of all those networks put together was four

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Speaker 1: point seven. And it used to be that a show

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Speaker 1: would get canceled if it didn't have a ten just

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Speaker 1: one show on its own. And so now it's it's

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Speaker 1: a function of putting our clients to work. And I

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Speaker 1: don't care if it's on a digital platform. If it's

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Speaker 1: a streaming platform, I don't care. If it's a podcast,

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Speaker 1: I don't care. If it's in a cartoon it I

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Speaker 1: don't care. You know, if the clients want to do

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Speaker 1: the project, it's it's something that is worthwhile, then we

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Speaker 1: should be looking for all those things. And really, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's a worldwide market. It's not just

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Speaker 1: as simple as you know being on in the US.

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Speaker 1: It's like, how can we look at each client as

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Speaker 1: a brand and then how do we maximize the value

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Speaker 1: of that client's brand. Who are your top clients right now?

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Speaker 1: I Honestly, I'm not in the talent represent I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you who some of the more famous are.

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Speaker 1: But we it's not really about that. It's about good

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Speaker 1: clients and um solid clients. And you know, look, we

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Speaker 1: traditionally the mid tier agencies. One of the problems with

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Speaker 1: the business model is when a client gets big, they

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Speaker 1: get poached by one of the big ones. When an

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Speaker 1: agent gets big, they get poached by one of the

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Speaker 1: big ones. And I want to change that model. So

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Speaker 1: how do you how do you change that? Well, Number one,

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Speaker 1: you make it the best place to be a client.

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Speaker 1: Because if we're making getting a client three sixty money

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Speaker 1: from every possible source and they're working as much as possible,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason for them to go someplace else. And

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Speaker 1: the second part is to make it the best possible

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Speaker 1: place to work. So we have a policy no toxic people, policy,

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Speaker 1: no toxic clients, no toxic um staff, and when and

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Speaker 1: when you and look the whole environment. The energy of

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Speaker 1: our office is both New York in l A is

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Speaker 1: completely different than the bigness. For example, we took out

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Speaker 1: we have one big conference room because we have to

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Speaker 1: have staff meetings. Other than that, we took out all

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Speaker 1: the conference rooms and I put in living rooms because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be across the table from a client.

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Speaker 1: I want to be next to the clients. Take your

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Speaker 1: shoes off. We have no typel like unless you know,

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Speaker 1: come on. We wanted to be a place that is

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Speaker 1: comfortable for our clients and someplace that really feels like

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Speaker 1: a nurturing environment. And we have people who really are

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Speaker 1: fierce advocates for their clients. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: as as secondary goals, we have things like we we

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Speaker 1: need to find niches where we can that can be

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Speaker 1: financially important to us, UM, where we can add value

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Speaker 1: to our clients lives and careers. Um. But where um

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Speaker 1: it's not maybe big enough for the bigger ones to

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Speaker 1: compete with us. And how big is the agency? How

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Speaker 1: many agents we talk? So we're right now we're plus

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Speaker 1: or minus sixty five or seventy agents New York and

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Speaker 1: l A put together. And you know, ideally, I mean

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Speaker 1: someday maybe a hundred tops, and then it's really as

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Speaker 1: big as we want to get. And um, but we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we've really focused on we want to be

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Speaker 1: a greenhouse for emerging, diverse talent. It's one of the things,

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Speaker 1: and I'll say one of the things I'm really really

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Speaker 1: proud of and I digress from them, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: because I'm so proud of it. I think it's worth

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Speaker 1: talking about. Is in the fourteen months that my partners

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Speaker 1: and I have owned this agency, UM, we now have

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Speaker 1: a total headcount of think ninety women and eighty men UM.

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Speaker 1: But if they're just in menial positions, it doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: Our agents position of power. Right, our agents are exactly

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Speaker 1: fifty fifty women and men, and our upper management, which

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Speaker 1: includes the three owners who are all men, we have

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Speaker 1: thirteen people, seven men, six women, and of the thirteen,

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Speaker 1: six men and women are from diverse groups. And that

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Speaker 1: is commendable and atypical given what the representation ranks of

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Speaker 1: this business and the way that we've done that is

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Speaker 1: what we're doing authentically. I've always said, like I want,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to have diversity just for the sake

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Speaker 1: of to to look good from some optical standpoint. UM.

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Speaker 1: What we do is in every position, you know, we'll

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Speaker 1: hire white men to UM. It's find the best people

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Speaker 1: we can for the job, and people who will be

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Speaker 1: part of the team. But if you give us a

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Speaker 1: choice between someone who two people who are equally qualified,

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Speaker 1: but one is from a group that has traditionally had

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Speaker 1: a harder time moving up the ladder, We'll take that person.

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Speaker 1: And what happens is it tends to feed on itself.

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Speaker 1: And it's also a function of where do you recruit from, because, um,

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Speaker 1: if you recruit from more diverse universities, for example, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna end up with a more diverse workforce and when

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Speaker 1: you when you have that and and thereby having a

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Speaker 1: more diverse client list as well. And it's it's not

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Speaker 1: something that we it's just part of our core fiber.

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Speaker 1: My dad. I talked about my dad a lot. He

386
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Speaker 1: was my is, my mentor, and he always taught me.

387
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Speaker 1: I grew up in Kansas. My dad always taught me

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Speaker 1: to judge people by what they do and say and

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Speaker 1: not by what they are. And that's how I've really

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Speaker 1: lived my life. And because so, if I like you,

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Speaker 1: it's because I like you, And if I don't, it's

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Speaker 1: not because of what you are, it's because you're a jerk. Um.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, UM, we've authentically we're just looking

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Speaker 1: for people who are the best. But I think I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to change the world, but I think we

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Speaker 1: can change our little part of the world. And you know,

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Speaker 1: with we have plus or minus thirty five hundred clients

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Speaker 1: and that gives us a real opportunity to put a

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Speaker 1: wedge into UM that the diversity of the entertainment business.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I, like said, can't change the whole world,

401
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Speaker 1: but you know I can. We can affect what we

402
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: can affect. And I think, look, we did that in

403
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Speaker 1: thirteen months, and I think that we can you know,

404
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Speaker 1: really make a difference or at least maybe you know,

405
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: flip a few dominoes. So you were you mentioned that

406
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: you are serial entrepreneur. This is one of many different

407
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 1: kinds of industries and businesses and you're involved in. Are

408
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: there other entities that you are in the media business

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Speaker 1: with beyond just the agency? So in the entertainment business UM,

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Speaker 1: I have an investment UM in a company called Powder

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Speaker 1: Kick Media, which is a partnership with myself and Paul

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Speaker 1: Feig and Laura Fisher, who was the CEO of the company.

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Speaker 1: And Paul, of course is memorable writer director everything from

414
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Speaker 1: Freaks and Gigs to bars Maids to UM. He's a

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00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: Christmas movie that he has right, and he's really a

416
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: wonderful person. Um he's from Mischiegan originally, so we kind

417
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: of hit it off being Midwest guys who ended up

418
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Speaker 1: in in Loss, you know, Midwest sensibilities but with l

419
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: a worldliness and um he's and by the way, this

420
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: powder Keg as a mandate. Um, we're producing content UM

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Speaker 1: that is empowering women, people of color and LGBTQ, and

422
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: um he is all like like me, very interested uh

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Speaker 1: in authentic diversity and promoting moving people up the ladder faster.

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00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: That's great, but I should point out does it put

425
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: you in a weird position to be owning an agency

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Speaker 1: and also having a piece of a production entity. Does

427
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Speaker 1: that get into the affiliated production issue? I don't think.

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Speaker 1: And the reason it doesn't is because I'm not actively

429
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: involved in the UM in powder Keg. And it's not UM,

430
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: it's not someplace that like, I'm not saying that we've

431
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: got I hope as many of the Abrams clients as

432
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: possible get get work through powder Keg, but we're not

433
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: pushing it. And I don't because I'm not involved in

434
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: the talent representation part. Um. You know, my agents can

435
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: be making deals with Powder Keg and I don't even

436
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: know it um and vice verse. I'm at a board

437
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: level only hours with Abrams, I'm I'm more actively involved

438
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: in the business. The funny thing is you you are

439
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: you are were a media personality in your own right.

440
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: You've got a background as a investing investment advisor, you

441
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: had your own syndicated radio program. It's quite a career

442
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: arc from that to this. You know, UM, first of all,

443
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: I think it's business is they're both businesses and where

444
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: I think the similarities live. And when you look at

445
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: the businesses that I have invested in over the over

446
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: the years, there's there's kind of a common theme, and

447
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: that is helping regular people to be more successful in life.

448
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: At my previous company, the investment company was called the

449
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: Mutual Fund Store and UM. I started that company in

450
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: the in the basement of a little office building in

451
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: the suburb of Kansas City. We had no clients, we

452
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: had no assets under management. When I sold the company

453
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: in two thousand and sixteen, we were one of the

454
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: five largest independent investment management companies in the country. We

455
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: had we had a hundred twenty offices and a hundred

456
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: cities but what our specialty was, We're we cater to

457
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: what we called the mass affluent. That's people fifty to

458
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars to invest, and it's a segment of

459
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: the population that was largely abandoned and abused by the

460
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: major financial services companies. So, if you've got ten million dollars,

461
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs wants to talk to you, the Mary Lynch

462
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: wants to talk to you. But if you're a guy

463
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: that worked Procter and Gamble for thirty years and has

464
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: two fifty thod or four O one K and they

465
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: didn't and terrible things happened could have happened to those

466
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: people from some of the big financial firms. Well, I

467
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: saw the same thing here. Um we clearly, um, we

468
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: we want our clients to be as successful and famous

469
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: and as possible, but we're not. I'd rather have a

470
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: whole client list of B level people who work all

471
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: the time than to have one pain in the neck

472
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: a list client. Um. And so I think that to

473
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: a large extent. The similarity is that a lot of actors, writers, directors,

474
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: show runners, voiceover talent, etcetera. That were not at the

475
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: A list were sometimes abandoned and abused by their their

476
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: representatives at the big firms, and what we're doing, we

477
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: need something different. Our overhead structure is different, our goals

478
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: and and philosophies are different, and m accordingly, we will

479
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: do one heck of a job for those people. And

480
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: so then this makes it a really good time for

481
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: your business. I would imagine there's a lot of clients

482
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: rethinking at this time the value of the bigger agencies

483
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: and what they can do. Well, look, I'm not demeaning

484
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: or diminishing what they can do, because um they they

485
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: have the power and the wherewithal to put together incredibly

486
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: wonderful and and ginormous projects that we don't And and

487
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: certainly we want our clients to participate in those two

488
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: whatever extent is good for the client. Um, it's just

489
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: I think that there's a there is a segment of

490
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: the entertainment business that needs us, and we we can

491
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: make a real difference. And that's what we're trying to do,

492
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: is like, let's figure out what our core competencies are,

493
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: what we do better than anybody else, and just do

494
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: that and not trying to be everything to everybody. One

495
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: last question you have when you had back the previous

496
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: production company years ago had gotten some familiarity with the

497
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: agency business. You had worked or CIA had represented in

498
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: that entity. So what was your takeaway from that experience?

499
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: How did that inform what you're doing with Abrams today. Well,

500
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: I I the agency business has has changed, and those

501
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: big agencies what I saw where things like when and

502
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm not picking at CIA by the way, it's it's

503
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: just emblematic I think of it's it's my range of experience.

504
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: So I think what it is is that with the

505
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: big agencies, because they are owned by private equity firms,

506
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: they have those private equity firms have a fiduciary responsibility

507
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: to the people who have given them money to invest,

508
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: to make the biggest profit possible, to make every dollar possible.

509
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: We're in a place we don't have outside investors. It's

510
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: it's it's our money, and so we can take the

511
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: long play. So in a lot of cases I saw

512
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: where the agents there would um they were very focused

513
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: on what can I get today instead of taking the

514
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: long play and nurturing a client's career. And you know,

515
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: sometimes it's right for a client that has a bigger

516
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: quote to take a project for ten dollars because it's

517
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: going to expose them to a new audience, or it's

518
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: going to give them change their their image brand image

519
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: in a certain way. Um. And and we want to

520
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: be able to we can do those things because we're

521
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: not beholding to two our to our investment bankers and

522
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: to the investors in terms of getting the returns. This week,

523
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: I also we saw things where you know, um, they

524
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: sometimes it felt like they didn't really care whether we

525
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: got a project or some other client got a project,

526
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: as long as it was one of their. And there

527
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: are also instances where, um, you know, the way that

528
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: the bonus structure works, so there's X amount of dollars

529
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: of bonus that's available for all of the agents. And

530
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: if you're an agent and I'm an agent, we both

531
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: represent a fourty year old blonde woman. Um, if I

532
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: find out that my client is not going to get

533
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: the part, it actually behooves me financially to tank your client.

534
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: Because if you have a win and I have a loss,

535
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: I get less of the bonus pool. If we both

536
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: have losses, we get the same piece of the bonus pool.

537
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that they do that, but it

538
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: sets up a potential for a conflict of interest and

539
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: at at the Abrams Artist Agency two point one of

540
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: the things that we've done to make it the best

541
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: place to work is that every agent is given ownership

542
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: in the company every year, so that even if a

543
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: client and and by the way, we've also set up

544
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: their their bonus structure so that a portion of their

545
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: bonus is dependent upon how much business they did with

546
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: other departments within the company. So they're encouraged to collaborate

547
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: and they're encouraged to help each other. Even though they

548
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: might not get money today, they'll see it in the

549
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: value of the stock that they have in the company

550
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: because the company does well. And you know, it's just

551
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different way of thinking. Quite honestly,

552
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: it couldn't scale. You know, if if we have fifty

553
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: agency in New York and fifty in l A. That's

554
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: about as big as we can get without having to

555
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: um to be able to to not be able to

556
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: work in the manner that we want to work. So

557
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: we're a specialty agency to do certain things and do

558
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: those things really really well. And because of we don't

559
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: have the financial constraints, and because we can think long

560
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: term invest in brands for our clients, UM, invest in

561
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: I P for our clients, UM, those sorts of things.

562
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: It gives us a freedom and and ality to do

563
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: things in a way that's different. Well, it sounds like

564
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: you're doing things differently, all right. Wish you the best

565
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: with that in the new year. Thank you so much,

566
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in. This has been another episode of

567
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another helping of

568
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and please make

569
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes.

570
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: Also leave a review in Apple podcast let us know

571
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: how we're doing. H