1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Everyone. It's Josh and for this week's Select, I've chosen 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: our two thousand nineteen episode on the actual law behind 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: finders Keepers and exactly what happens when someone stumbles upon 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: buried treasure or treasure accidentally dropped in a parking lot. Enjoy. 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: And this is Stuff you Should Know, the Finders Keepers 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: Edition Losers Weepers. Yeah, I know, so, Chuck. This is like, 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: this is an actual thing. It's not just like a 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: child's fantasy. Like this is law in some places. And 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: while it doesn't actually state losers weepers, I think it's implied. 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: It's implicit in the law where the finder is the keeper, 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: but you lost it, so you're legally obligated to weep 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: in public. Yeah, and it's funny reading through some of 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: these examples, it sounds like playground stuff. I'll say that 17 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: I'll get to some of these. Some of these examples though, 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, that's not yours, Like, come on, give 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: it up? Did you say that out loud to yourself. 20 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 1: I did a couple of these. I was like, man, seriously, man, 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: that's not yours, that's not yours. I'm just have a 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: big justice thing, you know, So yeah, me too. It's 23 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: when I see people acting like a big baby in 24 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: saying like this money I found in my wall, this 25 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: is mine, Like, no, it's not. Well, you would be 26 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: a great arbitrator, Yeah, get out of here. It's not yours. 27 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: You'd be like, my ruling is this man, that's not yours? 28 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: Give it up. Uh. But no, let's start with John 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: and Mary not their real names. No, No, I guess 30 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: that's worth pointing out. These are anonymous, an anonymous husband 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: and wife team from nor Cow. Yeah, from northern California. 32 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: And they are anonymous because they didn't want a lot 33 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: of attention. And they are still anonymous. We'll call him 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: John and Mary. And they are famous. Uh. Well, I 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: guess they're not famous, but their cases a little famous 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: because they found ten million dollars and are you know 37 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: what could be ten million dollars in rare gold coins 38 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: buried on their property that they own on a walk 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: and it's known as the Saddle Ridge Horde. Uh. In 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: February two thirteen, they found this, Uh, these four hundred 41 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: gold coins that no one knows who they belonged to, 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: how they got buried there, but they found them and 43 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: took a long time sort of coming out with this. 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: They did about as smart as you possibly can. Yeah, 45 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 1: they didn't rush to the press or anything and say 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: look what we found. Uh. They took their time because 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: I think they frightfully knew that they were onto something 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: pretty special. Yeah. So they were out walking on on 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: their property put that away for later with their dog, 50 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: and they noticed, I guess, the side of a can 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: coming out of the ground, and they went and dug 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: it out, and sure enough, there was a bunch of 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: gold coins in there. Whenever you see a can coming 54 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: out of the ground, I mean, that's your hope and 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: wish that it's going to be filled with gold coins 56 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: or jewels or something, right, But it never happens, And 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: it actually happened to these people. And so they went 58 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: back again and again and again, and they ended up 59 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: pulling eight cans filled with gold coins, pure gold coins, 60 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: out of the ground on their property. And it became 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: very apparent based on the state of preservation of the 62 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: cans and the dates of the coins in the cans 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: that somebody had buried this no more recently than the 64 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: very beginning of the twentieth century and probably sometime in 65 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century. Yeah, and here's a hint. If 66 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: you ever happened to unearthed a whatever, a can or 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: a glass jar or something full of money buried on 68 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: your property, just keep digging. Yeah that maybe it, but 69 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: maybe not. Yeah. I wondered, like, what kind of excavation 70 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: they undertok points once they were like, oh, there's more there. 71 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm quite sure they cleared that ground. It's it's it's verified. 72 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: There's no more cans. So if you're talking actual money, 73 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: the face value it's about twenty seven grand. But because 74 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: these are rare fines in great great condition, most of 75 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: most of these coins, um, they're thinking that it could 76 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: be worth as many as as much as ten million bucks. 77 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: So they're gonna sell it. Well they have been and 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: donate some of this money, and um, you know that 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: it's nice that they're they're donating some of it, but 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: it really sort of um opens up this question of hey, 81 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: what is the law say about finding something period much 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: less like on my property? Right? The finders keepers law 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: basically is what you're talking about, and that's really what 84 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: it's called in case laws, find the finders finders keepers 85 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: laws or rules. That's right. So, um, there was a 86 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: lot going on here. These guys, John and Mary owned 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: the land that these coins were found on and that 88 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: was a huge mark in their favor. Um, But they're 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: in the United States. It really depends on what state 90 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: you're in, what court you go to, what judge you 91 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: happen to pull the case law on. It is so 92 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: all over the place and so piecemeal that it's it's 93 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: really almost the luck of the draw. And there are 94 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: more things that you can do to compound your case 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: to make it more likely that the the thing is 96 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: is yours. But really it comes down to who has 97 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: the best claim on whatever is found. Yeah, Like somebody 98 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: could come forward Will probably or could have come forward 99 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: with John and Marry and said, wait a minute, that 100 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: was my great great grand Pappy Clark's land, and I'm 101 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: sure he did not intend to clark you those gold coins. Uh, 102 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: so like we actually should have a claim as his family, 103 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: um to to to take this stuff from you, and 104 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: like that could go that could very legitimately go to 105 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: court to be decided by a judge. And again, like 106 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: you said, it's who has the more legitimate claim. Um. 107 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: What really helps them is, like you said, it was 108 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: on their land and that it's super old, right exactly. 109 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: So the fact that it's very, very old means that 110 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: the person who buried them is probably dead, may not 111 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: even have any living heirs any longer. Um, that's one 112 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: thing that it's it's old. The second thing is that 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: it's old, but it's also not necessarily archaeological. It's it's money. 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: So it's the old coins are the definition of treasure. 115 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: And what we've entured now is called treasure law. And 116 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: there's different types of things that we'll see, but there's 117 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: one one category of found property is called treasure. And 118 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: what they found was treasure. It was a gold coin, 119 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: It was very old, but it wasn't necessarily archaeological. Again, 120 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: it was on their property. And so had somebody come 121 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: along and said, my grandpappy Clark buried those back when 122 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: my family owned this property, that's ours, they would have 123 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: a claim. And and pretty much anytime something valuable, especially 124 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: ten million dollars valuable, is found in the United States, 125 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: it is automatically going to get hammered out in court 126 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: because the laws are so vague in piecemeal and arbitrary 127 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: that it's going to going to be hammered out in court. 128 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: Who has the bigger claim? But because John and Mary 129 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: found something that was old, that was buried by someone 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: no one knows who buried it, and that it was 131 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: found on their property, they have a pretty good claim. Now, 132 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: if you were going to come and say, my grandpappy 133 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: buried that, um, your claim would be that was that 134 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: belonged to my family at one point in time, we 135 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: think it still does It just happened to be buried 136 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: and forgotten or left um on land that these people bought. Now, 137 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: there's a pretty good chance that the court would say, yeah, 138 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: but they bought the land. And depending on what state 139 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: you're in, that's that if they own the land, they 140 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: owned everything on it, yeah. Or bought the car with 141 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: money in the trunk, or the house with a super 142 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: valuable painting buried in the attic. It's sort of all 143 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: the same, um and And this is modern times. This 144 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: has been going on since the dawn of time when 145 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: people would lose or bury something, and they've always had 146 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: I think back then it was a little more cut 147 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: and dried, like an ancient Rome. If you found something 148 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: like that, half of it went to the emperor, just 149 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: sort of no if fans or butts uh if In 150 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: modern England, if you find something um old and rare, uh, 151 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: they say that belongs to the queen. Um. But here's 152 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: here's like a good fee for you now now hand 153 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: it over. And that's very very new, and that's kind 154 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: of that represents the the new thinking in treasure law 155 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: or found property law, which is, look, we can't just 156 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: let you keep this stuff that may have not just 157 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: like monetary value, but actually like cultural value as well, like, 158 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: so we need to have something to do with this. 159 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: So England, just when I should say, the UK just 160 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: said everything you find that is valuable or antique, um 161 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: and archaeological that belongs to the crown. But the Crown 162 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: is going to pay you market value, no questions asked, 163 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: right off the bat. So it's not finders keepers, but 164 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: it's finders. Here's here's a bunch of money you didn't 165 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: have before for finding this and bringing it into us. 166 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: And the point of this from this position of the 167 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: Crown or the UK government is that it encourages cooperation 168 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: with archaeological archaeologists and historians to preserve cultural stuff rather 169 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: than just having it sold out onto the the commercial 170 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: market to private collectors because of finder keepers laws. And 171 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: that's how it was before. Yeah. I mean, if if 172 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: it's in the UK today and you find something that 173 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: is not an ancient gold coin, but if you just 174 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: find it, let's say, you know, ten thousand pounds bundled together, 175 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: buried in your in your attic or on the street 176 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: for that matter, I think you have to file paperwork 177 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: at a police station. Uh, the owners have twenty eight 178 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: days to claim it and then it's yours. In the 179 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: United States, it varies from state to state and uh 180 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: sometimes even county to county, but generally it's sort of 181 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the same thing. Like it reported to the police. They 182 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: need to advertise the lost property for a week and 183 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: then wait about ninety days depending on where you are, 184 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: to see if anyone claims it, and then after that 185 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: they might say you can keep it. Yeah, but maybe 186 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: it just depends on where you are. That's um, that's 187 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: like contemporary property that you found, right, Yeah, yeah, this 188 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: is not like ancient gold coins. This is I found 189 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: a bundle of cold hard cash. So let's let's take 190 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: a break, and then we'll take a detour into contemporary 191 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: property because there are like a whole other set of 192 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: laws that are like are kind of important too, all right, yes, okay, chuck. So, 193 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: like we said, there's there's some categories for for property 194 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: found property. One of them is treasure, where it's just 195 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: straight up I found eight cans of gold coins and 196 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: it's treasure. Some in the UK, there's not really a 197 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: distinction between that and say, um, like uh, archaeological artifacts. 198 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: They're virtually one and the same. In the US because 199 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: the age of the country is young enough, there's a 200 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: distinction between an archaeological artifact and say, like treasure that's found. 201 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: But there's then there's contemporary property where the person who 202 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: owned it is probably still alive. If not, they're the 203 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: first generation after them is still probably around um. And 204 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: that that contemporary stuff is basically broken out into three subcategories. 205 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: There's lost, abandoned, and mislaid property. And depending on the 206 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: status of the property UM, the finder may or may 207 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: not get to keep it, and even that then it 208 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: depends on where you are. Yes, So as far as 209 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: those categories go. Abandoned property is something that uh, they say, 210 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: forsaken by a previous owner who doesn't have any intention 211 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: of coming back for it, so they've abandoned. They have 212 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: abandoned it. Can you imagine like how you would tell 213 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: whether something's abandoned or not. I don't know. I mean 214 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: unless they literally leave a note saying finders keepers, I 215 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: don't want this anymore. Get this away from me. You 216 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: know what would it be like a big bag of 217 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: cocaine that somebody left there, like, I can't do anymore. 218 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: This is really bad for me. I don't want this. 219 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh, I don't know. That is that? 220 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: That is the one that is the most confusing. The 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: other two are much more straightforward. Lost obviously is like 222 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the example they gave is you've lost your engagement ring 223 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: in the street um, and clearly it's something that you 224 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: want back and maybe have tried to come back and 225 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: find um, but you have dropped it or lost it somehow. 226 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: And this mislaid is even more interesting because that is 227 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: something that you intentionally put somewhere but then kind of 228 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: forgot it. And another good example like you went to 229 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: the bank and we're filling out your your form and 230 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: then oh my goodness, you got a cell phone call 231 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: and had to bolt real quick, and you left that 232 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: money on the counter that you wanted to deposit in 233 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: the bank. That is mislaid, um, because you clearly had 234 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: an intention for it and we're just way late or whatever. Right, 235 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: So it's not technically lost because you put it somewhere 236 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: on purpose. Yeah, Whereas lost, like you dropped something in 237 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: a parking lot. You may not even know you're missing 238 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: it at the time, right, or you can't find it, right. Um. 239 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: Mislaid is just like you're no longer where you put 240 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: that thing down, but you intended to do something with it. 241 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: There was intent behind it, but you forgot or something 242 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: or you got called away. Yeah, and that that property 243 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: mislaid property is supposed to be guarded by whoever owns 244 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: the property, So in that case it would be the bank. 245 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: Somebody from the bank should go over there, collect that 246 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: money and just set it aside and be like that guy, 247 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: we'll be back for this, right. Which is it's funny 248 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: because you know the whole lost and Found box. You 249 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: think that's just like a good Samaritan thing. Well, really, 250 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: it's everybody just covering their behind speaking. I guess probably 251 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: I see it differently now, and I'm a little more 252 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: bitter because of it. So this Arizona case is one 253 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: of the ones where I got a little, uh, little pod, 254 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: I was okay a little bit. So this is a 255 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: man died. He hid half a million dollars in cans 256 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: and AMMO cans, ammunition cans in the walls. And years 257 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: later the person who owned that house, we're doing some renovations. 258 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: Outcome these cans and they were like, oh my god, 259 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: it's a half a million dollars. This is ours. So 260 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: this man's daughters they knew like dad loved to do 261 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: stuff like this. He loved to hide things. He loved 262 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: to hide things away. Uh. They they searched before they 263 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: sold the house. They even searched, but obviously did not 264 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: find these these cans stashed in the walls. Uh. And 265 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: when this came out, these daughters came forward and we're like, 266 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: you know, that's our money, that's our our you know, 267 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: should have gone to us in a will. But my 268 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: cookie Dad stashed in the wall again jerk. And Uh, 269 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: these people fought them for that and said, no finders keepers, 270 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: it's in our wall. We bought this house. Well, so 271 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: I mean I I can understand your eye or in 272 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: your anger, and that's what I'm like. As soon as 273 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: someone stepped forward would have been like, oh, well here's 274 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: your money, then like this is your father's. Sure it 275 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: doesn't belong to me, But what if you were like, actually, 276 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: we've got a like legitimate legal claim to this. Because 277 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: depending on where they were and this is Arizona, but 278 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: I mean depending on the state. When you buy property 279 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: from somebody, you buy the property and everything on that property, 280 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: whether anyone knows it's they're or not, it belongs to you. 281 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: Is the property owner. For example, Texas is huge on 282 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: that huge on private property ownership, so much so that 283 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: if you own property in Texas and there's an archaeological 284 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: site on your property, that's yours, bub you can set 285 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: it on fire, you can turn it into a reck room, 286 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want with that stuff. That's 287 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: your property. That's how that's how Texas views uhum, private 288 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: property rights. Right. So these people may have been like, well, 289 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: we're from Texas, that's just how we do it in Texas, 290 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: they had a legitimate claim to challenge. I get what 291 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: you're saying, but they also may have felt like, hey, 292 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: we bought this property and this came with the property, 293 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: so this is our sorry, that whole loser's wheepers thing 294 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: I think is what they were invoking. Yeah, I mean 295 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: that that's clearly what they did. But what I'm saying 296 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: is that is not a that's not cool, right, No, 297 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: it's that money did not belong to them. They didn't 298 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: work for it. They didn't buy it because the house 299 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: because they thought there might be money in the walls. 300 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: You know, I understand if no one came forward, then great, 301 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: But as soon as these daughters come forward, like that's 302 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: their money to do the right thing, that's what I say. 303 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: I'm with you, like I would. There's no way I 304 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: would have challenged these daughters in court, right, you would 305 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: have been finders, nice guys, losers here you go. Well, 306 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: I'd make sure, you know, I'd go through all the 307 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: legal process of making sure that they are who they 308 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: say they were and it all checked out. I wouldn't 309 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: like if they came knocking on my door would just 310 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: go all right here, but I would. I would go 311 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: through that process and then say, well, okay, then it's 312 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: definitely your money. Would you like interview their cousins and 313 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: be like, what kind of daughters were they? Were they 314 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: good daughters? Or you know, do they deserve this? At 315 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: the very least, you're inviting a a heap of bad 316 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: luck and karma upon your head. Well, if you believe 317 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, sure it comes around. What goes 318 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: around comes around, That's my motto. Well that's another finders, keepers, losers, weepers. 319 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: What goes around comes around. And then the third one 320 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: everything I needed to know I learned in kindergarten. Or 321 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: what about this guy in Georgia the public defender talk 322 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: about a jerk? Yes, there's no this guy had no 323 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: legal standing whatsoever, whether he was from Texas or anywhere. 324 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't look him up to see what 325 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: his name was. But in two thousand thirteen, a public 326 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: defender found um a diamond ring, I guess, an engagement 327 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: ring that was worth something like ten dollars and just 328 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: put it in their pocket and walked away whistling. Man, 329 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: what a I mean, especially an engagement ring? Right, that's mine? Yeah? 330 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: What a jerk? No, I I agree, And um he 331 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: got in trouble for it. From what I understand, they 332 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: when the person went back and said I lost my 333 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: engagement ring at the target helped me. The target said, well, 334 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: of course we're gonna help you. Calm down, calm down, peace, brother, 335 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: And they pulled up their surveillance videos and saw the 336 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: public defender finding the ring and pocketing it, and they 337 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: put a warr in out for the public defenders arrest 338 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: for I think larceny actually, at the very least, for 339 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: not going to links to find the person whose ring 340 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: it was, not even links links, pick up a phone 341 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: or go into the target and be like, hey, I 342 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: need to speak to a manager. Well, it's funny, it says. 343 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that you can and should do 344 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: if is like to do that and go like give 345 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: that diamond ring to the manager at target, and like, 346 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: I would never do that if it was something super valuable, 347 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust I wouldn't trust them. I would keep 348 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: it under my own control and go to the cops. 349 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: Just walk around with a gun drawn on everybody, like, 350 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: get back, get back, I found somebody's timond ring. Get back. 351 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: It's my looking at now, And you're like, maybe I 352 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: should just go ahead and rob someplace. Now I got 353 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: my gun out and I'm protecting this time and ring, 354 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: and you enter into a life of crime totally inadvertent. 355 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: It's a justice thing again, Like I don't want people 356 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: should have stuff that is rightfully there. It's not like, uh, 357 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: well I just happened to get lucky today, right quick, 358 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: Like that's what's wrong with this country. Yeah, And I mean, 359 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: I know you're right about the frand in the behind 360 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: the toaster oven. The diamond ring is even more cut 361 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: and dry to me for sure, but um, that's yeah. 362 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: This this isn't a parking lot and it was just lost, 363 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: you know. Um. So yeah, there are certain things that 364 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: you want to do if you find lost property that 365 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: is contemporary, that's obviously lost, that's obviously new. Um. And 366 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: one of the first things you want to do is 367 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: take it to the cops and say, here, here's my 368 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: name and number in case somebody doesn't doesn't claim this, 369 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: but I'm officially giving it to you the cops for safekeeping, 370 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: and then probably take out an ad in the paper 371 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: or on Craigslist or both, and then kick back and 372 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: wait for the kudos and the praise for being a hero, yeah, 373 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: or for that thing to be returned to you if 374 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: no one claims it. Yep, depending on where you are, 375 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: I think it, Like you said, in the UK, it's 376 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: something like a month. In California, it's I saw a 377 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty days. I've also seen ninety. Um. Yeah, 378 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: if you do all the right things and follow all 379 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: the right steps, it can be yours, free and clear. 380 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: Not only free and clear, like you're not going to 381 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: be arrested, free and clear where the person can come 382 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: back and say, oh, you know I I that was 383 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: my ring. If you are a jerk, you can say no, 384 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: it's my ring now, and the cops would be like, 385 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: it's it's their ring now. They followed all the right moves. Yeah. 386 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: They also recommend if it's something really really valuable, maybe 387 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: like get an attorney on on the thing, like maybe 388 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: one who would find a diamond ring and not return 389 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: it right exactly. He's a public defender too. That's what 390 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: I don't get. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean it was 391 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: like an entertainment, a journey. It would make much more sense, 392 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: it would, I guess, But in public defenders like, well, 393 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: I don't get paid, this is a really thank plus job, 394 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: and I'm going to do something for myself for once 395 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: and then they ended up in jail for doing something 396 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: for themselves for and then needed a public defender. Yes, ironically, 397 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: should we take a break, Yeah, we're going to take 398 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: a break, chuck. And then we are going to go 399 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: under the sea. Yeah, where things get really confusing, all right. 400 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: So this is where things get super super convoluted when 401 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: you're talking about uh, shipwrecks and literal treasure from like 402 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, uh, an ancient galleon um, or maybe not ancient, 403 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: but let's just say galleon. You know it could be yes, 404 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: we'll say Italians in ancient times they had Oh you know, 405 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: the oldest intact shipwreck was recently found in the Black Sea. 406 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: Did you see it. It's an ancient Greek ship Okay, 407 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: so ancient Greek. Yeah, Like that's how ancient. It's not 408 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: even Greek, it's Greek. It's so ancient. Um, it's the 409 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: kind that Odysseus was lashed two when they were going 410 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: past the Sirens. It's like that kind of ship. It's 411 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: that old, right, and um, it's fully intact, just laying 412 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: on its side at the bottom of the Black Sea. 413 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: It's just beautiful, beautiful little shipwreck. And that would be 414 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: an ancient galleon. I guess you could call it all right. 415 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: So this is where like I don't even know how 416 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: to talk about this, almost because it's so convoluted, because 417 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: it can it can matter whose ship it originally was us, 418 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: it can matter what was on that ship. It can 419 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: matter where the ship is now resting in whose waters 420 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: or if it's international waters or partially on one side 421 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: or the other, which is when it gets super confusing. 422 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: Who the ship was leased from, who was least from, 423 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: who is in charge of because most of these aren't accidents. 424 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: I know, uh that it has pointed out that sometimes 425 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: like a scuba diver might find something like this, but 426 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: usually it's an expedition looking for this stuff specifically, so 427 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: who runs that or whose insurance companies have a claim 428 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: and what international agreements are made, and it's just it's 429 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: almost like it's so case by case there really is 430 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: no rule. Yeah, if you thought land property was convoluted, 431 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: under undersea archaeology property treasure property is just totally off 432 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: the charts. So with um, that was one of the 433 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: nerdiest sentences I've ever uttered. Yeah, I wrote an article 434 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: years ago about undersea archaeology, and I did a lot 435 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: of that research then, and it is just really like 436 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: basically what happens is is once something is found, then 437 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: everyone just lawyers up and starts fighting. Yeah, exactly exactly. 438 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: And I think the reason why UM it's it's particularly 439 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: convoluted in in um contentious for the undersea um treasure 440 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: is that the treasures that they're finding are just so 441 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: eye popping lee valuable that it's worth, you know, going 442 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: to court for fifteen twenty years over billions of dollars 443 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: in some cases. Yeah. There was a wreck called the 444 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: San Jose that was discovered and it was announced in 445 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. I'm not quite sure when Columbia discovered it, 446 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: but it's off the coast of Cartagena and in TuS 447 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: and fifteen the Colombian government came forward and said, we 448 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: found the San Jose. It was a galleon. It was 449 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: sunk by the British three hundred years ago. It wasn't Greek, no, no, 450 00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: it was. It was Spanish. But it was transport gold, 451 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: silver gems from Peru back to Spain to to finance 452 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: a war. It was loaded with with valuables. And they 453 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: think that this wreck today the valuables aboard are worth 454 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: between one and twelve billion dollars. This is not something 455 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: that any one of these parties or countries is gonna 456 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: give up on. Now. It's the kind of shipwreck. It's 457 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: the kind of treasure that can actually affect world markets, 458 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: like the value of goods on world markets above on land, 459 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: because this stuff has been under the sea and out 460 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: of the market for so long. When it comes onto 461 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: the market, it could actually depress the value of the 462 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: of like gold, because there's so much of it suddenly 463 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: coming on the market. That's how rich this treasure is. Yeah, 464 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: and it's funny here this article you sent. Um, there 465 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: is a UNESCO convention in two thousand one on underwater 466 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: cultural heritage findings that have best practices. They're not actually 467 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: like you know, laws and they're they're like, we'd be 468 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: happy to help out with this, but nobody's called this. 469 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: That's so you and yeah, they they don't want them involved. Basically, 470 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: they're just like, now we're going to work it out 471 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: with the lawyers. They're like, hey, thanks, thanks a lot, 472 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: Just go sit over there until we call your pretty much. Um. So, 473 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: the San Jose has a lot of people arguing over 474 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: for example, Spain is saying, well, it's a Spanish galleon. 475 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: Give us our give us our money back. Colombia is like, yeah, 476 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: it's in our coastal waters. That's our territorial waters that 477 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: belongs to us. Peru says, yeah, you guys came and 478 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: extracted that from our indigenous population back when we were 479 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: Spanish calling. And that's one that doesn't come up very often, 480 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: but you think it should, especially in the New World stuff, right, Yeah, 481 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: like that that was our original stuff to begin with. 482 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: Even so we should have never been on that boat. Ironically, 483 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: they probably have the least claim to it, sadly, but 484 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: there's why they're going to get it. There's I wonder though, 485 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: if they'll get a portion of it, though, I think 486 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: if they said no, this is this is a thing, 487 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: this is legitimate, they could conceivably get caught in, but 488 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: they're not going to get the whole thing. I don't 489 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: think anybody's going to get the whole thing, being clear. 490 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: So there's all these different groups arguing over it, and 491 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: it's big of a mess as it is, it's actually 492 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: not the biggest mess of a treasure found a board 493 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: a shipwreck. There's a ship called the Notre Dame de Deliverance. Yeah, 494 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: I think that's right. Yeah, that was um that sank 495 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: forty miles off of Florida in seventeen fifty five. I mean, 496 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: one of just hundreds and hundreds of ships to crash 497 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: off the coast of Florida, and a U S salvage 498 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: company found it in two thousand two. And this is 499 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: the one that I was talking about. It's partially in 500 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: international waters, partially as part of the Florida Keys National 501 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: Marine Sanctuary. The Spaniards least the ship from the French 502 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: West Indies company and so they all have a claim. 503 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: And then complicating this is the fact that in the 504 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: United States we passed the abandoned Shipwreck deck, which means 505 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: all shipwrecks within US waters, uh, which is what like 506 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: three miles off of any of our coastlines. Um our 507 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: US properties? Is that right? So it's super convoluted. And 508 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: that's actually the territorial waters thing has kind of been 509 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: the toughest one, or the the best claim that any 510 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: country can lay on a ship is now it's in 511 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: our territorial waters. Customarily that means that's yours, that's yours 512 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: to deal with. But when the ship is in international waters, 513 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: are partially in international waters, that's just a whole different 514 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: ball game. And even when something's in territorial waters, like 515 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: Spain's not gonna go away now, you know, when two 516 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: to three billion dollars is on the table, they're gonna 517 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: say no, We're gonna use our diplomats to press you know, 518 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 1: at least getting a portion of this. France will do 519 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: the same thing, and the salvers are like, well, hey, 520 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is this is ours. And actually, 521 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: at first a Florida Um Florida judge said, yep, it's yours, 522 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: free and clear. Two to three billion dollar booty is yours. 523 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: Take it, put on this eye patch in this cool 524 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: hat and go get it. Well, but you have to 525 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: get Spain's permission to go get it, right exactly, so 526 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: Spain's gonna say no, we want to have something to 527 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: do with this. But that Shipwrecked Act, the whole, the 528 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: whole reason why the United States is even involved is 529 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: from that Shipwrecked Act. It's very similar to that UK 530 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: Act where it basically says, nope, it belongs to us. 531 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: Where the United States it's in our territorial waters, it 532 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: belongs to us. But here's a significant portion of it, 533 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: usually like of it. And the point of that is 534 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: to keep um salvers and as your hunters interested enough 535 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: that they're actually going out and salvaging these archaeological sites. 536 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: But they're doing it under the jurisdiction of the state 537 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: or federal government, which says you've got to keep daily logs. 538 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: You have to break the reck site into strings of 539 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: square meters, you have to catalog everything, you have to 540 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: have a certified archaeology a marine archaeologist on board throughout 541 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: the entire voyage overseeing this whole thing. You gotta do 542 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: it right, and we'll give you of what we can 543 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: get for it, which is substantial in some some cases. 544 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: But it's not like treasure hunting is like a cheap activity. 545 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: It's a very expensive undertaking. Yeah, it's seriously expensive. And 546 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: like they don't just like these treasure hunting companies don't 547 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: just go in there and say, hey, I think there's 548 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: something there, let's go grab it. I mean, they do 549 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: all their research because it is so expensive. Two ensure 550 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: as much as possible that they will have a claim 551 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: to it in the end. You know, they don't just 552 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: go in there willy nilly and hopes that the courts 553 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: will decide with them. No, no, for sure, but I 554 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: mean I think that's the probably of significant portion of 555 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: the operating cost of a treasure hunting outfit. Is the 556 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: court costs and fees um to to get the to 557 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: to get the rights to the treasure. I would guess yeah. 558 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: And in this case too. I'm sure France was like 559 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: Florida judge like, I don't care what you say, but 560 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: Florida judges have a big saying this. They're about as 561 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: professional as you could get, as far as as um 562 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: passing judgment on treasure claims for sunken ships, because Florida 563 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: has the most sunken ships of any state in the Union, 564 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: something like six thousand to ten thous estimated shipwrecks from piracy, hurricanes, 565 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: all this stuff. Um, Florida's got it. Also, if you're 566 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: gonna if you're looking for a judge who has experience 567 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: on ruling on a case like this, Florida is probably 568 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: your best bet. Don't go to Oklahoma. That would be 569 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: my my suggestion. That's just good advice all around. And 570 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: it can also so um if you're a treasure hunter. 571 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: Not only can the court costs be killer, you might 572 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: be put in jail. There's a guy named Tommy Thompson 573 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: who's a very famous treasure hunter who found the wreck 574 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,479 Speaker 1: of the Fitzgerald. No, although, man, there are a few 575 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: wrecks that fascinate me more than the MM Fitzgerald. I 576 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: can just sit there and look at those eerie pictures 577 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: of it all day long. I can I just sing 578 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: that song over and over. Um, you shouldn't do that. 579 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: He'll drive you insane. No, he found the wreck of 580 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: the s S. Central America, which was a steamer that 581 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: went down in a hurricane off the coast of South 582 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: Carolina in eighteen fifty seven with four d and twenty 583 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: five souls aboard and three tons of gold. And um, 584 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: he found it, and he went and sold a bunch 585 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: of stuff and didn't pay his investors, and a judge 586 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 1: put him in jail in Ohio, where he's been sitting 587 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: since I think two thousand fifteen. Because he refuses to say, 588 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: we're five hundred gold coins from the wreck. Quent he 589 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: just won't say. He said that he gave him to 590 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: somebody and believes, but he can't remember who they are. 591 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: That's really, that's what his that's what his lawyer had 592 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: to tell The Washington Post. That's pretty funny. Yeah, I'd 593 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: just be like that to somebody and he can't remember who. Yeah. 594 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I wish we could have been a little 595 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: bit more like black and white about the shipwreck thing. 596 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: But it's just it's just so depends on the case. Yeah, 597 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, there is no solid rule. There's a couple 598 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: of solid rules. There's one above ground where if you 599 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: are caught digging on federal land that's a felony um 600 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: And any stone tool found in the United States belonged 601 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 1: to the federal government automatically, I would guess, unless it's 602 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: in Texas, in which case the Texas authorities and the 603 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: federal authorities would fight with one another over your right 604 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: to own that stone tool. That's a good point. So 605 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: I think that's about it for finders keepers. Good one. Yeah, 606 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: I thought so too. Uh. If you want to know 607 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: more about finders keepers, go find something and say finders 608 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: keepers and see what happens and then let us know. 609 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, we're gonna sit here and do 610 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: listener mail. I'm gonna call this Stanford prison prison experiment. 611 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: Follow up angry follow up, Yeah, you read this one. Hey, guys, 612 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for your episode on Zimbardo. 613 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm a cognitive psychologist and have been teaching for years, 614 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: and it makes me angry in a way I have 615 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: never been angry before. You do your best to fact 616 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: check and show that you're giving this to and she's 617 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: not talking about our show, by the way, She'll nott Zimbardo. 618 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: You do your best to fact check and show you're 619 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: giving the students reliable information. But then someone pulls crap 620 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: like this again Zimbardo and causes serious problems for us 621 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: as teachers. How did I handle this chapter this year? Well? 622 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: Number one, I taught it as normal as the text 623 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: takes forever to be updated. And number two I showed 624 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: them the video ghost of Abu Grabe is it abigrade 625 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: Abigrade and had had them right about how Simbardo's study 626 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: predicted this would happen. And then three had them all 627 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: listen to your podcast. Now they are all as angry 628 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: as I am, partially at me for doing that, but 629 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: I wanted them to feel the effort they put into 630 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: it go to waste. But I had a very interesting 631 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: observation in one class the publicity and popularity off the study. 632 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: Could it have actually created the dystopian prison environment and 633 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: part at abi grabe through expectation? Oh, I see like 634 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy. I guess so. Basically, was Zimbardo 635 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: the actual Lucifer in his book having an effect not 636 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: only in society as a whole and what we believe 637 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: about humanity, but how we act we now live in 638 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: his hell? Then she says thanks again. Uh, and that 639 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: is from Alison Demming from Try County Tech, temporarily insane 640 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: with rage. It's right. I don't blame her. Yeah, that 641 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: was That was a good episode, man, one of the best. Yeah, 642 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: thanks Allison. Yeah, thanks a lot, Allison. Thanks for writing 643 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: in with the support. We agree with you wholeheartedly. It's passion. 644 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: It's not anger, that's right, man. Or maybe it's anger. 645 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you I feel man, Chuck, 646 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: you are killing it these days. So if you want 647 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, you can go to 648 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: stuff you should Know dot com and check out our 649 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: social links and world via email at stuff podcast at 650 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. Stuff you Should Know is 651 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my 652 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 653 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.