WEBVTT - Psychedelics and Drug Use with Ethan Nadelmann 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Hi everybody. While I'm taking the month of September off 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.200 of doing stand up, I return on October one to 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:11.320 complete my Vaccinated and Horny Tour. October, November, and December, 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.600 I have new dates up. I kick it off in Saratoga, California, 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.800 and I'm coming to all parts of California, Long Beach, 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.799 Baker's Field. I'm going to Niagara Falls, Tucson, Arizona, Colorado, Minneapolis, 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.600 San Diego, Reading Pennsylvania, and Baltimore, Maryland, just to name 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.240 a few. There's also some Floridian dates in there, since 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.000 this will be my last year that I'm able to 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.040 go inside the state of Florida. So check out Chelsea 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:37.960 Handler dot com for more stand up dates for my 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:43.160 Vaccinated in Horny Tour. These are my last dates. Hi, Catherine, 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.240 how are you? I'm so good. I'm here in l 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:47.760 A and it's going to be a hundred and four 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.720 this weekend. I left l A because I don't like 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.680 that kind of temperature, and but I'm gonna see you 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.440 in my orcas soon. Catherine and I are going on 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.240 vacation together with Brad. We're going to become a throople. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:03.480 We're gonna open up their related ship. That wouldn't be weird. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.120 You're welcome in. We're really good at snuggling and after care. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:08.640 I was just at a lunch. I'm in New York 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.240 City this week because I'm here to watch the US 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.120 Open because I wanted to watch Serena play for the 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.240 last time. So I went to the first night where 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.959 she fucking won and it was so special. I just 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.560 love that energy. I love watching people win. Yes, she 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.800 came out in like a glittery wrote like cape, like 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.760 a queen. Yeah, she had six layers to signify all 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.040 of the I guess six US Opens. She had one, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.759 and she played this girl whose name, God, that's terrible, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.759 I can't remember. But the girl was so good. It's 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.000 so funny to watch Serena play because, like her opponents 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.200 are always just running back and forth with such athleticism, 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.960 and Serena just stands there. She's just like here, I'll 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.520 return the ball from over here, like I'm not running anywhere. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.000 It's pretty amazing to watch her play. She's such a 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.280 she's a beast. It's always amazing to see somebody who's 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.680 just at the top of their game, whether it's sports, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.440 whether it's comedy, whether it's whatever it is. It's so 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.000 fascinating to watch somebody who's at the top of her Yeah, yeah, 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.480 I love it. I love the whole vibe of like tennis, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.480 Grand Slams, Like I've been to Wimbledon. I think I've been. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:10.760 I think that's probably it. Wimbledon and the U s 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:12.720 Open I've been to. But it's just such a vibe, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.880 you know, like you can drink, you watch sports like 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.639 it's up close. You can see everything, no matter where 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.000 you're sitting in the stadium, you're just watching the court. 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:22.519 You know. It's not like a concert. We have to 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.359 watch on one of these big screens. And the US 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.480 Open is the biggest one out of the Grand Slams. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.639 It's it holds the most seats and so it's massive, 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:35.400 and it's just it's. Yeah, my best friend Bitchy, she's 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.880 my sports friends. She knows, she's always got in roads 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.639 to any sporting event, so we always get hooked up. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.320 So yeah, I'm having a great time and I'm and 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.440 then I'm going to see you in my Orca. Yeah. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.119 And you've been saying all kinds of friends this week, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.160 I know, because we're making plans last week. Oh my God, 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.040 I know, I'm not looking at my calendar. I'm like, fuck, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.600 what the the funk is this? We have a podcast 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.839 recording it to this interrupts my lunch and mushroom at day. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.240 I was so sorry to interrupt. Last night, though, I 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.120 had the most romantic night by myself. I went to first, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.160 I got up and I worked out for two hours 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.200 because I shot this campaign and I had to really 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.320 get it together for well one week. That's how I 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.440 get it together, and then I just went off. Since then, 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.799 I've gained six pounds and I am just cruising through 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.360 Manhattan and I'm walking everywhere. Yesterday I met my sister. 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.680 I walked forty five minutes. I met her for launch, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.200 Then my friend Pitchy came. Then I walked all the 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.240 way back, and then I walked back downtown. I got 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.919 in seven twenty seven thousand steps yesterday. And my goal 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.520 is just too. I love New York City for that reason. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.840 There's nowhere I mean, I just wish I lived in 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.800 a city that was walkable, not in Los Angeles. Los 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:47.120 Angeles definitely is not. It's barely drivable. Yeah, but where 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.520 else have you been? You've been all over the place. Oh, 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:54.200 my gosh, I just got back from Greece and Vancouver Island. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.800 I went from Greece to Vancouver Island. Warmed very cold. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.120 It sounds like, yeah, well it wasn't very cold on 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.800 Vancouver Island. Greece was beautiful. I went to an island 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.000 called Leftcata, which I've never been to, with a bunch 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.960 of friends. We just got on a boat every day 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.839 and went to a different beautiful restaurant and drank white 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.440 wine and ate Greek salads and fish, and I could 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.560 not have been happier. I actually was able to protect 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.760 my face from the sun with this new hat I got, 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.039 so it looked like a dick, but I like, at 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.240 least my skin is not burned. And yeah, I was 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:29.000 on vacation with lots of different new people and some children, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.600 so you know how that goes. Yes, I saw your 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.960 incest story is with one particular who I think was 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.200 your favorite. Oh yeah, she's my favorite. The ones who 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.920 can't really form sentences are my favorites, you know, Like 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.159 I like when they're beginning to talk but they haven't 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.920 really gotten the hamstered it. Yeah, that's when they get 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:50.680 a full personality. Is when I start to lose issuest. Yeah, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.440 the like gibber jabber stage where they'll just like tell 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.320 you all about their day in total like jabbery English 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.920 is my favorite. Yeah. I had this four ar old girl, Mia, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.880 who was just she was so she was like a 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.240 seven year old. So it was so funny. I'd be like, Okay, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:07.919 let's play a game where we count all the boats 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.000 that are moving in the ocean. She's like, that sounds silly. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.760 I've got another game. I'm like, oh my god, she said, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.640 I don't think so. She was just so funny, just 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.719 like and this old British like she sounded like an 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.479 old British man. She sounded like this is doubtfire. I 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.760 love that traveling with children is another thing. You got 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:33.279 us to have your own timeline involved. I just don't 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.400 understand how people do it. How they have so many 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.719 children and then they have to pack up their car 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:39.839 and they have to put in the baby Bjorn and 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 their cookies and their whatever bottle, all of it. And 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.159 at every airport all you ever see is parents taking 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.400 their sippy cups and downing the liquid in the sippy 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.280 cups because the kids haven't finished it. Like I was 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.920 at Heathrow on a layover. Oh I was in London too. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.000 I was at Heathrow and he throws like the strictest 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.640 airport in terms of like liquids and fluids. So basically 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.640 everyone who came through just had to sit there in 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.000 front of the t s A agent drinking their thermis 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.400 because no one had, you know, emptied out their thermis. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.839 And I'm like, how do people not fucking know about 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.480 emptying out their thermis at this point? How did they 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.200 not even doing this for a minute now it's been 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:23.280 since yes, Oh my gosh. Yeah, I just don't think 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:24.919 I could have a kid and be the sort of 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.520 mom who like licks their kids pacifier to clean it 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.440 before giving it to them, or like like parents. Man, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.080 I have a lot of respect, but I can't do 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.040 all that gross stuff. No, no, it's all yeah, it's 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.880 too much. It's just never ending. And some people make 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.239 it look easy, and I respect that because it's not easy. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.679 Some people with many Nanni's. We have a very special 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.039 guest today. His name is Ethan Niedelman and he is 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.880 the former Princeton professor who built a political movement to 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.159 legalize marijuana, roll back the drug war, and treat drugs 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.920 as a health issue, not a criminal one. He is 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.440 now the host of the podcast Psychoactive about all Things Drugs, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.159 now in a second season, And obviously I would like 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.240 to announce to all my customers this disclaimer that I 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.320 am not a doctor, I play one on a podcast, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.680 that I would never ever encourage anybody to do drugs. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:22.320 This isn't medical advice, this is my own personal therapy. Ethan. Hi, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.200 it's so nice to have you. Well, it's a pleasure 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.640 to be on your show, Chelsea. I really appreciate it. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.840 Oh well, thank you, thanks for being here. And you 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.400 know you've spoken to Catherine before. Yeah, Hi, Okay, So 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.360 I know you are a huge proponent of the legalization 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.040 of marijuana and basically I mean all drug use, right 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.280 or do you want to get specific about what drugs 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.280 you are for and what drugs you're against? Well, I mean, 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.240 let me be very specific. I mean most of my 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.680 life was about working to legalize marijuana and to end 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.920 the war on drugs, So that's where and I was 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.920 never called myself pro marijuana, although my personal life, I'd 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.160 say marijuana and I have had a great relationship for 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.840 a very long time. Amen to that. But when it 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.720 comes to the other drugs, you know, I'm sort of 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.280 a Merril wine and psychedelic exceptionalist, and that those are 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:07.760 the drugs that have been good in my life and 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:09.800 the other ones are not so crazy about. But the 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.000 principle that nobody should be punished for whatever drugs they 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.760 put in their body if they don't hurt anybody else, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.000 I think that's the core principle we have to remember. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.640 So that even if you love we love psychology, don't 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.800 like all the other sorts of things, it doesn't mean 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.120 that other people should get punished simply for using those things, right, absolutely, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.920 And so what are your feeling about other sort of narcotics. 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:32.520 I mean, you're into psychedelics, and so I assume that 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.600 encompasses all of all psychedelics. Psilocybin, Well, you know, I 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.680 haven't tried all of them yet, right, I mean, you know, 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.920 mushrooms have been my kind of go to one for 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.160 a very long time. Ayahuasca has been good. I've done 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.319 mescaling once or twice. I've tried a few others. I 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.320 did to ceb m Dama, not really a psychedelic, but 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.559 that one was very nice in my life. Although it 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.000 doesn't really work for me anymore. But when it comes 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.000 to the opioids, I mean no, I just think they're 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.480 useful for pain and that one needs to be very 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.280 careful when you're using them. But I do know people 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.640 who use psyche, you know, who use opioids and have 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.600 led very successful lives even when using them regularly. So 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.640 I'm just it's always just very important that we not 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.040 demonize other people, even for using drugs that are more dangerous, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.560 and even like cocaine. Like I've never really liked cocaine 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.080 that much. Mean for me, like having cocaine it's like 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.839 drinking too much coffee and having post nasal drip, right, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.440 So it's never been a thing for me. I have 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.960 friends who love cocaine. I've had friends who got in 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.720 trouble with cocaine. I've had friends who just play with it. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.640 So I'm not a big fan. I don't think it 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.080 brings out the best in people. You know, I wouldn't 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.720 want people I really care about getting into cocaine too much. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.079 But it still means I don't like the law of 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.720 punishing anybody for using that stuff. So when you said 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.760 you used M D M A, but it stopped working 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.480 for you. What do you mean by that, because I've 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.679 heard that before from people. Well, I'll tell you. I mean, 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.640 you know, Chelsea, when I first started using early thirties, 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.520 it was in the context of my divorce. I think 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.480 it helped us land up on a softer landing. And 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.920 I've used it in romantic relationships since in my thirties 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.280 and forties, and it was good with friends and I've 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.760 been to raise But around I'm now sixty five, around 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.880 the time I hit my early fifties, I found that 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.440 the upside started waning and the downside started increasing, and 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.640 I start having the feeling like my body was telling me, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.400 don't put this in you, And so I really miss it. 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.920 I mean it was. It served a valuable purpose for 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.920 me in terms, especially in romantic relationships, in terms of 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.320 being able to deal with issues and have communications and 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.840 otherwise difficult to do. Yeah, that's true. It is helpful 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.760 in relationships if you can have conversations, important conversations. Right, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.880 Have you used it in that way? No, I haven't. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.040 I've only used it, and I mean that's a good 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.040 idea though I've only used it to like have a 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.960 good time, you know. M D. M a that is, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.720 but no, I haven't. I'd recommend it. I mean, it's 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.000 just because it gives people the ability both to listen 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.600 it more deeply than they normally worried. It dissolves the defenses, 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.160 and also to speak in a way that's more and 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.520 pathic in a way. And so I think, you know, 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.920 when it was first kind of when it's uses were 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.520 first kind of rediscovered the seventies, it was known as 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.200 the couple's therapy drug, and it was most famous for 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.000 that type of use. And now when we see it 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.199 emerging for use with respect to PTSD and things like that, 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.800 it really has a very valuable role to play. So 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.880 I strongly encourage it as long as it work well 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:21.880 for you. I should also say that I think when 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:23.920 it comes to stopping, I know a lot more guys 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.840 who says it doesn't work for me anymore. Whereas women 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.880 seem to get this is no no research on this, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.080 just impressionistic. Women seem to get more value of it 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.160 for a longer time. Interesting, And what about tell me 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.400 a little bit about mescaline. I've never had any experience 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.280 with mescaline either, I don't think so well, you know, 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.160 you can get it in the refined version, which is 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.320 the way I did it. That other two ways is 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.839 it comes from the peyote cactus, which is the one 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.200 that's used in Indigenous ceremonies, Native American church, and now 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.200 people are mostly people are being discouraged from using payote 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.360 because there's a limited supply and you don't want to 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.920 deprive Native American church members and Indigenous peoples of having 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.320 access to it. But there's a plant called San Pedro 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.720 which is also a source of mescalin. So I would 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.680 say that I did at the one time I did it, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.840 I found that a lot like a mushroom experience. It 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.640 can be maybe a little bit longer. It was before 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.160 the invention of LSD in the forties or just you know, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.200 a creation of LSD in the forties, it was the 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.439 most popular of the psychedelics. I just interviewed somebody on 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.880 my podcast I Go Active. Mike j wrote a wonderful 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.840 history of this whole thing. Michael Pollen, who has written 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.160 that wonderful book changed and had to change your mind 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.960 about psychedelics. He has a new book where he talks 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.560 about his mescaline news. So I would say it's worth trying. 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.199 Some people may prefer it to LSD or two mushrooms. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.480 I don't think it's radically different though. Okay, so it's 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.800 in that same family. And what about your experience, you said, Iowaska, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.680 have you done that multiple times? You know? I did 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.320 it for the first time about twenty years ago. I 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:55.880 had a great experience, and I did it a fe 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.959 years later in the context of a religious ceremony something 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.360 the Brazilian church called Santo Dime. Although I did it, 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.000 you know, loft in New York, but in that modality, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.720 and then since that time, I haven't really done the 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.800 full blowing ones. I've been at gatherings with a sort 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.400 of guide where they have low dose ayahuasca mixed in 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.440 with other things. I've never gone down all South America 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.120 to do it in the jungle. I saw you did 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.680 that for the TV show you did on Netflix. I 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.319 know a lot of people have done it that way, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.080 so it's not been a drug I've gone back to 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.800 many times. Although I would definitely do it again. I 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.000 would definitely do it again. You know, I'm one of 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.080 the few people, like most people throw up when they 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.680 do it, you know, and you're supposed to throw up 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.120 because it helps to purge, but I didn't throw up. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.120 I didn't throw up either. Oh no, I did throw up. 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.480 Sorry I did. Yeah, I thought you were talking about 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.960 the other outlet because they say you can sometimes, you know, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.040 go to the backroom to with that. With respect to 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.600 that second time I did it, nothing happened during the ceremony, 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.480 but in following days that other outlet was quite active. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.760 Oh well, that's good to know. Thank you for filling 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.000 me in. Yeah. Sure, do you find age at all 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.439 to be a prohibitor? Are in any of these drugs 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.080 we're talking about? You don't, I'll tell you. I think, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:05.760 first of as I say, as I've got an older 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.280 m DNA is not really doing it for me. Marijuana 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.160 continues to be my friend after all these years. I 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.440 think if you don't have issues, like, for example, I 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.000 don't have any. You know, I'm very healthy for my age, 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.720 so I don't worry about cardiovascular issues. If you feel 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.960 vulnerable cardiovastro lee, you have to be careful with taking 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.320 a drug that could really, you know, get your heart 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.760 going in a serious way. I've never been on antidepressants, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.280 but if you are, you know you can't be an 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.200 antidepressants and be doing ayahuasca because as I've got a 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.280 toxic combination. Like one thing I've gotten into in recent 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.200 years is doing LSD. Not at the macro dose with 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.120 the heroic dose, the big dose, and and not so 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.720 much at the micro dose, the five or ten micrograms, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.080 but doing what I would call a mini dose of 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.880 like twenty or thirty micrograms, which is enough to make 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.400 you feel you're under the influence of something, but you're 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.920 not really having any visions, You're not way out there. 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.360 And I will say that the following day, I just 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:03.080 feel exhausted, and I think that maybe aging. But you know, 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.080 there are people who just keep doing it into their 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.000 eighties and older. I mean, my view on the psychedelics 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.120 has always been there kind of wasted on the young, 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.320 and I tend to think about them. I let's give it. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:14.800 Gave a speech and I said, you know, I think 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.840 about doing psychedelics the way I think about ya keep poor. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.200 You know, I'm Jewish, I grew up religious. Right now 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.080 I'm not that religious, but you know, once a year, yon' 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.320 kee poor fast twenty five hours, no food, no water, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.440 because I think it's a good thing for getting more 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.160 in touch with that spiritual side. And I think the 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.240 same thing with psychedelics that a lot of times people 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.600 you know in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventy say, oh, 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.960 I did that when I was young. But my view 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.360 is it's a good thing to keep coming back to 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.400 at least once a year. It's a it's good for 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.760 stirring up the emotional sediment, the psychological sediment that builds 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:50.880 up as we get older. And I think the reason 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.440 that people get scared of it when they get older 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.800 is because it does mean stirring up that emotional sediment. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.920 It does mean coming to grips with things, compromises you 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.560 made in life, things you've had to settle for. But 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:07.040 I actually think it's a healthy thing spiritually, emotionally, and 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.520 probably even physically to keep doing it as long as 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.520 one feels physically able. Wow, well, that's great. I love 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.600 to hear that because I always feel like you, in 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.480 a certain point, you have to stop the drugs, and 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.520 I think what you're saying is quite the opposite. As 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.120 long as you're continually evolving and exploring, there's no reason 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.760 to stop unless you know you have some health limitations. 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.520 Exactly exactly, And I seem to try to overcome those 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.600 fears that happen as we get over. So many of 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:32.960 my friends who used to do it with me back 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.080 in the day, now they're worried about it. They're scared 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.560 about it. Although the truth being that with all the 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.680 same arable media about psychedelics now, with Michael Collin's book 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.480 and all the other sorts of things, more and more 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.200 people are expressing interest in doing it who either haven't 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.520 done it in many decades or never did it. And 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.120 I think that's an encouraging sign, you know. I mean, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.240 even with marijuana, if you think about it. I remember 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.920 when we started legalizing marijuana, first for medical and then 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.720 more broadly in the various states with all the ballot initiatives, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.560 and people would say, you just you watch, adolescent use 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.840 is gonna skyrocket. And my response to them would be, 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.160 I don't think so, because teenagers already have easy availability 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.840 in marijuana and we're not legalizing it for them, So 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.040 why is it going to go up so much? And 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.000 I said, the real increase in use is going to 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.600 be among people in their fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.080 And I'll tell you, you know, five ten years since 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.840 we started legalizing marijuana or in states around the country, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.640 there's been virtually no jump in adolescent marijuana use, which 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.960 would be something you'd worry about. But meanwhile, among people, 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.439 like you know, people in their sixties seventies, there's like 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.840 a quadrupling of us because people are finding it valuable. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.080 They're finding it, you know, that they find they prefer 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.760 to alcohol, They find it helps with sleep, or aches 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.520 and pains, or or maybe it helps to spice up 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.000 a sexual relationship with a person you've been married to 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.600 for decades, right, I mean, it's got all these sorts 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.399 of benefits. And so I think the benefits of psychoactive drugs, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.120 and especially one it's like cannabis and psychedelics, I think 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.439 they're underestimated in terms of being positively connected with healthy aging. 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.520 Do you think that the dosage is important as you aged? 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.960 I mean, because the micro dosing is really what everybody's 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.000 on about now and guided journeys with whatever drug of choice, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.960 whether it's a micro dose of LSD or psilocybin or ketamine. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.760 Do you think that that has an impact. Well, it's 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.520 so hard to know. I mean with micro doc thing, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.159 some people have claimed it's little more than a placebo, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.000 and other people have claimed released significant benefit from MIKE 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.520 and micro doocing usually means taken between a tenth to 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.720 the twentie of the dose that would normally result in 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.959 a psychedelic trip. And so I would say the microdocing 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.359 thing is worth trying. It does not appear to be 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.920 much risk associated with it, although there's not long term 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.679 studies on it, and that can evolve doing it with LSD, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.680 with mushrooms, it can even be done with ayahuasco or 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.200 even what I've even heard about microdocing Iba game, which 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.280 is a very powerful psychedelic out of West Africa from 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.000 the aboga plant that you know, people have found great 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.399 resulting during addiction. But I'm a little scared to try 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.280 with marijuana. Some people find that as they get older 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.320 that the brain changes in a way and so that 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.200 you need less to get high. So I think it's 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.520 a matter of just being attentive to what works and 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.959