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Speaker 1: Hi everybody. While I'm taking the month of September off

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Speaker 1: of doing stand up, I return on October one to

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Speaker 1: complete my Vaccinated and Horny Tour. October, November, and December,

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Speaker 1: I have new dates up. I kick it off in Saratoga, California,

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Speaker 1: and I'm coming to all parts of California, Long Beach,

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Speaker 1: Baker's Field. I'm going to Niagara Falls, Tucson, Arizona, Colorado, Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: San Diego, Reading Pennsylvania, and Baltimore, Maryland, just to name

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Speaker 1: a few. There's also some Floridian dates in there, since

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Speaker 1: this will be my last year that I'm able to

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Speaker 1: go inside the state of Florida. So check out Chelsea

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Speaker 1: Handler dot com for more stand up dates for my

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Speaker 1: Vaccinated in Horny Tour. These are my last dates. Hi, Catherine,

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Speaker 1: how are you? I'm so good. I'm here in l

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Speaker 1: A and it's going to be a hundred and four

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Speaker 1: this weekend. I left l A because I don't like

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Speaker 1: that kind of temperature, and but I'm gonna see you

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Speaker 1: in my orcas soon. Catherine and I are going on

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Speaker 1: vacation together with Brad. We're going to become a throople.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna open up their related ship. That wouldn't be weird.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome in. We're really good at snuggling and after care.

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Speaker 1: I was just at a lunch. I'm in New York

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Speaker 1: City this week because I'm here to watch the US

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Speaker 1: Open because I wanted to watch Serena play for the

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Speaker 1: last time. So I went to the first night where

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Speaker 1: she fucking won and it was so special. I just

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Speaker 1: love that energy. I love watching people win. Yes, she

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Speaker 1: came out in like a glittery wrote like cape, like

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Speaker 1: a queen. Yeah, she had six layers to signify all

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Speaker 1: of the I guess six US Opens. She had one,

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Speaker 1: and she played this girl whose name, God, that's terrible,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. But the girl was so good. It's

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Speaker 1: so funny to watch Serena play because, like her opponents

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Speaker 1: are always just running back and forth with such athleticism,

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Speaker 1: and Serena just stands there. She's just like here, I'll

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Speaker 1: return the ball from over here, like I'm not running anywhere.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing to watch her play. She's such a

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Speaker 1: she's a beast. It's always amazing to see somebody who's

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Speaker 1: just at the top of their game, whether it's sports,

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Speaker 1: whether it's comedy, whether it's whatever it is. It's so

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Speaker 1: fascinating to watch somebody who's at the top of her Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love the whole vibe of like tennis,

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Speaker 1: Grand Slams, Like I've been to Wimbledon. I think I've been.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably it. Wimbledon and the U s

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Speaker 1: Open I've been to. But it's just such a vibe,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you can drink, you watch sports like

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Speaker 1: it's up close. You can see everything, no matter where

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Speaker 1: you're sitting in the stadium, you're just watching the court.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's not like a concert. We have to

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Speaker 1: watch on one of these big screens. And the US

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Speaker 1: Open is the biggest one out of the Grand Slams.

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Speaker 1: It's it holds the most seats and so it's massive,

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's. Yeah, my best friend Bitchy, she's

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Speaker 1: my sports friends. She knows, she's always got in roads

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Speaker 1: to any sporting event, so we always get hooked up.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm having a great time and I'm and

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to see you in my Orca. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you've been saying all kinds of friends this week,

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Speaker 1: I know, because we're making plans last week. Oh my God,

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm not looking at my calendar. I'm like, fuck,

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Speaker 1: what the the funk is this? We have a podcast

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Speaker 1: recording it to this interrupts my lunch and mushroom at day.

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Speaker 1: I was so sorry to interrupt. Last night, though, I

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Speaker 1: had the most romantic night by myself. I went to first,

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Speaker 1: I got up and I worked out for two hours

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Speaker 1: because I shot this campaign and I had to really

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Speaker 1: get it together for well one week. That's how I

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Speaker 1: get it together, and then I just went off. Since then,

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Speaker 1: I've gained six pounds and I am just cruising through

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Speaker 1: Manhattan and I'm walking everywhere. Yesterday I met my sister.

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Speaker 1: I walked forty five minutes. I met her for launch,

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Speaker 1: Then my friend Pitchy came. Then I walked all the

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Speaker 1: way back, and then I walked back downtown. I got

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Speaker 1: in seven twenty seven thousand steps yesterday. And my goal

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Speaker 1: is just too. I love New York City for that reason.

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Speaker 1: There's nowhere I mean, I just wish I lived in

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Speaker 1: a city that was walkable, not in Los Angeles. Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles definitely is not. It's barely drivable. Yeah, but where

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Speaker 1: else have you been? You've been all over the place. Oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I just got back from Greece and Vancouver Island.

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Speaker 1: I went from Greece to Vancouver Island. Warmed very cold.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like, yeah, well it wasn't very cold on

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Speaker 1: Vancouver Island. Greece was beautiful. I went to an island

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Speaker 1: called Leftcata, which I've never been to, with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of friends. We just got on a boat every day

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Speaker 1: and went to a different beautiful restaurant and drank white

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Speaker 1: wine and ate Greek salads and fish, and I could

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Speaker 1: not have been happier. I actually was able to protect

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Speaker 1: my face from the sun with this new hat I got,

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Speaker 1: so it looked like a dick, but I like, at

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Speaker 1: least my skin is not burned. And yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: on vacation with lots of different new people and some children,

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Speaker 1: so you know how that goes. Yes, I saw your

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Speaker 1: incest story is with one particular who I think was

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Speaker 1: your favorite. Oh yeah, she's my favorite. The ones who

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Speaker 1: can't really form sentences are my favorites, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: I like when they're beginning to talk but they haven't

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Speaker 1: really gotten the hamstered it. Yeah, that's when they get

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Speaker 1: a full personality. Is when I start to lose issuest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the like gibber jabber stage where they'll just like tell

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Speaker 1: you all about their day in total like jabbery English

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Speaker 1: is my favorite. Yeah. I had this four ar old girl, Mia,

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Speaker 1: who was just she was so she was like a

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Speaker 1: seven year old. So it was so funny. I'd be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's play a game where we count all the boats

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Speaker 1: that are moving in the ocean. She's like, that sounds silly.

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Speaker 1: I've got another game. I'm like, oh my god, she said,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. She was just so funny, just

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Speaker 1: like and this old British like she sounded like an

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Speaker 1: old British man. She sounded like this is doubtfire. I

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Speaker 1: love that traveling with children is another thing. You got

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Speaker 1: us to have your own timeline involved. I just don't

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Speaker 1: understand how people do it. How they have so many

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Speaker 1: children and then they have to pack up their car

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Speaker 1: and they have to put in the baby Bjorn and

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Speaker 1: their cookies and their whatever bottle, all of it. And

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Speaker 1: at every airport all you ever see is parents taking

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Speaker 1: their sippy cups and downing the liquid in the sippy

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Speaker 1: cups because the kids haven't finished it. Like I was

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Speaker 1: at Heathrow on a layover. Oh I was in London too.

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Speaker 1: I was at Heathrow and he throws like the strictest

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Speaker 1: airport in terms of like liquids and fluids. So basically

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Speaker 1: everyone who came through just had to sit there in

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Speaker 1: front of the t s A agent drinking their thermis

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Speaker 1: because no one had, you know, emptied out their thermis.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, how do people not fucking know about

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Speaker 1: emptying out their thermis at this point? How did they

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Speaker 1: not even doing this for a minute now it's been

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Speaker 1: since yes, Oh my gosh. Yeah, I just don't think

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Speaker 1: I could have a kid and be the sort of

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Speaker 1: mom who like licks their kids pacifier to clean it

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Speaker 1: before giving it to them, or like like parents. Man,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect, but I can't do

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Speaker 1: all that gross stuff. No, no, it's all yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: too much. It's just never ending. And some people make

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Speaker 1: it look easy, and I respect that because it's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Some people with many Nanni's. We have a very special

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Speaker 1: guest today. His name is Ethan Niedelman and he is

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Speaker 1: the former Princeton professor who built a political movement to

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Speaker 1: legalize marijuana, roll back the drug war, and treat drugs

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Speaker 1: as a health issue, not a criminal one. He is

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Speaker 1: now the host of the podcast Psychoactive about all Things Drugs,

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Speaker 1: now in a second season, And obviously I would like

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Speaker 1: to announce to all my customers this disclaimer that I

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Speaker 1: am not a doctor, I play one on a podcast,

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Speaker 1: that I would never ever encourage anybody to do drugs.

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Speaker 1: This isn't medical advice, this is my own personal therapy. Ethan. Hi,

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Speaker 1: it's so nice to have you. Well, it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be on your show, Chelsea. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you, thanks for being here. And you

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Speaker 1: know you've spoken to Catherine before. Yeah, Hi, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I know you are a huge proponent of the legalization

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Speaker 1: of marijuana and basically I mean all drug use, right

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Speaker 1: or do you want to get specific about what drugs

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Speaker 1: you are for and what drugs you're against? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: let me be very specific. I mean most of my

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Speaker 1: life was about working to legalize marijuana and to end

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Speaker 1: the war on drugs, So that's where and I was

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Speaker 1: never called myself pro marijuana, although my personal life, I'd

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Speaker 1: say marijuana and I have had a great relationship for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. Amen to that. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the other drugs, you know, I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: a Merril wine and psychedelic exceptionalist, and that those are

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Speaker 1: the drugs that have been good in my life and

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Speaker 1: the other ones are not so crazy about. But the

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Speaker 1: principle that nobody should be punished for whatever drugs they

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Speaker 1: put in their body if they don't hurt anybody else,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the core principle we have to remember.

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Speaker 1: So that even if you love we love psychology, don't

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Speaker 1: like all the other sorts of things, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that other people should get punished simply for using those things, right, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And so what are your feeling about other sort of narcotics.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're into psychedelics, and so I assume that

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Speaker 1: encompasses all of all psychedelics. Psilocybin, Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: haven't tried all of them yet, right, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: mushrooms have been my kind of go to one for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. Ayahuasca has been good. I've done

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Speaker 1: mescaling once or twice. I've tried a few others. I

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Speaker 1: did to ceb m Dama, not really a psychedelic, but

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Speaker 1: that one was very nice in my life. Although it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really work for me anymore. But when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the opioids, I mean no, I just think they're

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Speaker 1: useful for pain and that one needs to be very

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Speaker 1: careful when you're using them. But I do know people

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Speaker 1: who use psyche, you know, who use opioids and have

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Speaker 1: led very successful lives even when using them regularly. So

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Speaker 1: I'm just it's always just very important that we not

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Speaker 1: demonize other people, even for using drugs that are more dangerous,

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Speaker 1: and even like cocaine. Like I've never really liked cocaine

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Speaker 1: that much. Mean for me, like having cocaine it's like

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Speaker 1: drinking too much coffee and having post nasal drip, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's never been a thing for me. I have

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Speaker 1: friends who love cocaine. I've had friends who got in

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Speaker 1: trouble with cocaine. I've had friends who just play with it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not a big fan. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: brings out the best in people. You know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want people I really care about getting into cocaine too much.

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Speaker 1: But it still means I don't like the law of

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Speaker 1: punishing anybody for using that stuff. So when you said

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Speaker 1: you used M D M A, but it stopped working

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Speaker 1: for you. What do you mean by that, because I've

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Speaker 1: heard that before from people. Well, I'll tell you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, Chelsea, when I first started using early thirties,

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Speaker 1: it was in the context of my divorce. I think

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Speaker 1: it helped us land up on a softer landing. And

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Speaker 1: I've used it in romantic relationships since in my thirties

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Speaker 1: and forties, and it was good with friends and I've

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Speaker 1: been to raise But around I'm now sixty five, around

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Speaker 1: the time I hit my early fifties, I found that

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Speaker 1: the upside started waning and the downside started increasing, and

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Speaker 1: I start having the feeling like my body was telling me,

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Speaker 1: don't put this in you, And so I really miss it.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was. It served a valuable purpose for

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Speaker 1: me in terms, especially in romantic relationships, in terms of

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Speaker 1: being able to deal with issues and have communications and

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Speaker 1: otherwise difficult to do. Yeah, that's true. It is helpful

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Speaker 1: in relationships if you can have conversations, important conversations. Right,

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Speaker 1: Have you used it in that way? No, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: I've only used it, and I mean that's a good

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Speaker 1: idea though I've only used it to like have a

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Speaker 1: good time, you know. M D. M a that is,

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Speaker 1: but no, I haven't. I'd recommend it. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just because it gives people the ability both to listen

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Speaker 1: it more deeply than they normally worried. It dissolves the defenses,

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Speaker 1: and also to speak in a way that's more and

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Speaker 1: pathic in a way. And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: when it was first kind of when it's uses were

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Speaker 1: first kind of rediscovered the seventies, it was known as

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Speaker 1: the couple's therapy drug, and it was most famous for

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Speaker 1: that type of use. And now when we see it

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Speaker 1: emerging for use with respect to PTSD and things like that,

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Speaker 1: it really has a very valuable role to play. So

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Speaker 1: I strongly encourage it as long as it work well

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Speaker 1: for you. I should also say that I think when

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Speaker 1: it comes to stopping, I know a lot more guys

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Speaker 1: who says it doesn't work for me anymore. Whereas women

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Speaker 1: seem to get this is no no research on this,

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Speaker 1: just impressionistic. Women seem to get more value of it

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Speaker 1: for a longer time. Interesting, And what about tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit about mescaline. I've never had any experience

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Speaker 1: with mescaline either, I don't think so well, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can get it in the refined version, which is

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Speaker 1: the way I did it. That other two ways is

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Speaker 1: it comes from the peyote cactus, which is the one

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Speaker 1: that's used in Indigenous ceremonies, Native American church, and now

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Speaker 1: people are mostly people are being discouraged from using payote

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Speaker 1: because there's a limited supply and you don't want to

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Speaker 1: deprive Native American church members and Indigenous peoples of having

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Speaker 1: access to it. But there's a plant called San Pedro

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Speaker 1: which is also a source of mescalin. So I would

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Speaker 1: say that I did at the one time I did it,

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Speaker 1: I found that a lot like a mushroom experience. It

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Speaker 1: can be maybe a little bit longer. It was before

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Speaker 1: the invention of LSD in the forties or just you know,

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Speaker 1: a creation of LSD in the forties, it was the

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Speaker 1: most popular of the psychedelics. I just interviewed somebody on

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Speaker 1: my podcast I Go Active. Mike j wrote a wonderful

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Speaker 1: history of this whole thing. Michael Pollen, who has written

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Speaker 1: that wonderful book changed and had to change your mind

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Speaker 1: about psychedelics. He has a new book where he talks

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Speaker 1: about his mescaline news. So I would say it's worth trying.

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Speaker 1: Some people may prefer it to LSD or two mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's radically different though. Okay, so it's

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Speaker 1: in that same family. And what about your experience, you said, Iowaska,

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Speaker 1: have you done that multiple times? You know? I did

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Speaker 1: it for the first time about twenty years ago. I

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Speaker 1: had a great experience, and I did it a fe

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Speaker 1: years later in the context of a religious ceremony something

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Speaker 1: the Brazilian church called Santo Dime. Although I did it,

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Speaker 1: you know, loft in New York, but in that modality,

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Speaker 1: and then since that time, I haven't really done the

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Speaker 1: full blowing ones. I've been at gatherings with a sort

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Speaker 1: of guide where they have low dose ayahuasca mixed in

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Speaker 1: with other things. I've never gone down all South America

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Speaker 1: to do it in the jungle. I saw you did

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Speaker 1: that for the TV show you did on Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people have done it that way,

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Speaker 1: so it's not been a drug I've gone back to

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Speaker 1: many times. Although I would definitely do it again. I

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Speaker 1: would definitely do it again. You know, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the few people, like most people throw up when they

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Speaker 1: do it, you know, and you're supposed to throw up

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Speaker 1: because it helps to purge, but I didn't throw up.

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Speaker 1: I didn't throw up either. Oh no, I did throw up.

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Speaker 1: Sorry I did. Yeah, I thought you were talking about

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Speaker 1: the other outlet because they say you can sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: go to the backroom to with that. With respect to

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Speaker 1: that second time I did it, nothing happened during the ceremony,

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Speaker 1: but in following days that other outlet was quite active.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, that's good to know. Thank you for filling

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Speaker 1: me in. Yeah. Sure, do you find age at all

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Speaker 1: to be a prohibitor? Are in any of these drugs

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Speaker 1: we're talking about? You don't, I'll tell you. I think,

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Speaker 1: first of as I say, as I've got an older

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Speaker 1: m DNA is not really doing it for me. Marijuana

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Speaker 1: continues to be my friend after all these years. I

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Speaker 1: think if you don't have issues, like, for example, I

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Speaker 1: don't have any. You know, I'm very healthy for my age,

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Speaker 1: so I don't worry about cardiovascular issues. If you feel

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Speaker 1: vulnerable cardiovastro lee, you have to be careful with taking

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Speaker 1: a drug that could really, you know, get your heart

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Speaker 1: going in a serious way. I've never been on antidepressants,

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Speaker 1: but if you are, you know you can't be an

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Speaker 1: antidepressants and be doing ayahuasca because as I've got a

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Speaker 1: toxic combination. Like one thing I've gotten into in recent

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Speaker 1: years is doing LSD. Not at the macro dose with

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Speaker 1: the heroic dose, the big dose, and and not so

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Speaker 1: much at the micro dose, the five or ten micrograms,

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Speaker 1: but doing what I would call a mini dose of

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Speaker 1: like twenty or thirty micrograms, which is enough to make

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Speaker 1: you feel you're under the influence of something, but you're

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Speaker 1: not really having any visions, You're not way out there.

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Speaker 1: And I will say that the following day, I just

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Speaker 1: feel exhausted, and I think that maybe aging. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there are people who just keep doing it into their

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Speaker 1: eighties and older. I mean, my view on the psychedelics

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Speaker 1: has always been there kind of wasted on the young,

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Speaker 1: and I tend to think about them. I let's give it.

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Speaker 1: Gave a speech and I said, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: about doing psychedelics the way I think about ya keep poor.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm Jewish, I grew up religious. Right now

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Speaker 1: I'm not that religious, but you know, once a year, yon'

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Speaker 1: kee poor fast twenty five hours, no food, no water,

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Speaker 1: because I think it's a good thing for getting more

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Speaker 1: in touch with that spiritual side. And I think the

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Speaker 1: same thing with psychedelics that a lot of times people

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Speaker 1: you know in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventy say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I did that when I was young. But my view

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Speaker 1: is it's a good thing to keep coming back to

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Speaker 1: at least once a year. It's a it's good for

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Speaker 1: stirring up the emotional sediment, the psychological sediment that builds

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Speaker 1: up as we get older. And I think the reason

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Speaker 1: that people get scared of it when they get older

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Speaker 1: is because it does mean stirring up that emotional sediment.

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Speaker 1: It does mean coming to grips with things, compromises you

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Speaker 1: made in life, things you've had to settle for. But

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Speaker 1: I actually think it's a healthy thing spiritually, emotionally, and

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Speaker 1: probably even physically to keep doing it as long as

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Speaker 1: one feels physically able. Wow, well, that's great. I love

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Speaker 1: to hear that because I always feel like you, in

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Speaker 1: a certain point, you have to stop the drugs, and

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Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is quite the opposite. As

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Speaker 1: long as you're continually evolving and exploring, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: to stop unless you know you have some health limitations.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, And I seem to try to overcome those

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Speaker 1: fears that happen as we get over. So many of

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Speaker 1: my friends who used to do it with me back

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Speaker 1: in the day, now they're worried about it. They're scared

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Speaker 1: about it. Although the truth being that with all the

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Speaker 1: same arable media about psychedelics now, with Michael Collin's book

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Speaker 1: and all the other sorts of things, more and more

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Speaker 1: people are expressing interest in doing it who either haven't

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Speaker 1: done it in many decades or never did it. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's an encouraging sign, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even with marijuana, if you think about it. I remember

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Speaker 1: when we started legalizing marijuana, first for medical and then

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Speaker 1: more broadly in the various states with all the ballot initiatives,

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Speaker 1: and people would say, you just you watch, adolescent use

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Speaker 1: is gonna skyrocket. And my response to them would be,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so, because teenagers already have easy availability

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Speaker 1: in marijuana and we're not legalizing it for them, So

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Speaker 1: why is it going to go up so much? And

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Speaker 1: I said, the real increase in use is going to

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Speaker 1: be among people in their fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, you know, five ten years since

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Speaker 1: we started legalizing marijuana or in states around the country,

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Speaker 1: there's been virtually no jump in adolescent marijuana use, which

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Speaker 1: would be something you'd worry about. But meanwhile, among people,

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Speaker 1: like you know, people in their sixties seventies, there's like

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Speaker 1: a quadrupling of us because people are finding it valuable.

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Speaker 1: They're finding it, you know, that they find they prefer

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Speaker 1: to alcohol, They find it helps with sleep, or aches

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Speaker 1: and pains, or or maybe it helps to spice up

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Speaker 1: a sexual relationship with a person you've been married to

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Speaker 1: for decades, right, I mean, it's got all these sorts

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Speaker 1: of benefits. And so I think the benefits of psychoactive drugs,

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Speaker 1: and especially one it's like cannabis and psychedelics, I think

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Speaker 1: they're underestimated in terms of being positively connected with healthy aging.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the dosage is important as you aged?

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Speaker 1: I mean, because the micro dosing is really what everybody's

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Speaker 1: on about now and guided journeys with whatever drug of choice,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a micro dose of LSD or psilocybin or ketamine.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that has an impact. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: so hard to know. I mean with micro doc thing,

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Speaker 1: some people have claimed it's little more than a placebo,

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Speaker 1: and other people have claimed released significant benefit from MIKE

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Speaker 1: and micro doocing usually means taken between a tenth to

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Speaker 1: the twentie of the dose that would normally result in

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Speaker 1: a psychedelic trip. And so I would say the microdocing

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Speaker 1: thing is worth trying. It does not appear to be

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Speaker 1: much risk associated with it, although there's not long term

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Speaker 1: studies on it, and that can evolve doing it with LSD,

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Speaker 1: with mushrooms, it can even be done with ayahuasco or

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Speaker 1: even what I've even heard about microdocing Iba game, which

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Speaker 1: is a very powerful psychedelic out of West Africa from

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Speaker 1: the aboga plant that you know, people have found great

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Speaker 1: resulting during addiction. But I'm a little scared to try

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Speaker 1: with marijuana. Some people find that as they get older

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Speaker 1: that the brain changes in a way and so that

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Speaker 1: you need less to get high. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: a matter of just being attentive to what works and

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Speaker 1: and look hoo for people use it differently. I know people,

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Speaker 1: I know people, billionaires, enormously successful people. Every night, you know,

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Speaker 1: they'll take a couple of puffs off a joint, watch

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Speaker 1: late night TV and go to sleep. And they've been

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Speaker 1: doing that for decades. I know brilliant academics and intellectuals

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Speaker 1: who've been using marijuana, including for creative purposes. In my case,

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Speaker 1: I don't do marijuana daily, you know. I smoke it

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Speaker 1: periodically with friends or my partner or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And and then edible I'm getting into. Edible is more frequently.

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Speaker 1: In fact, for me, part of my healthy aging process

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Speaker 1: is once a week when I'm in New York, I

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Speaker 1: take ten dollograms of edible THHC, usually in a nice

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Speaker 1: chocolate bar, grab my headphones, and I go down and

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Speaker 1: get a multi hour massage, and I'm just floating and

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Speaker 1: Mari Wanta helps me get into my body. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's actually, when you're using any psychoactive drugs, the

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Speaker 1: key thing is to be using it consciously, not to

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Speaker 1: be using it unconsciously, and not to just be using

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Speaker 1: it habitually, and not to be using it just in

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Speaker 1: his escapest way is to use it consciously, to say,

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Speaker 1: this is a moment or a thing I'm doing where

422
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: I think, actually using this substance when hands what I'm

423
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 1: intending to do or wanting to do right now. The

424
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: circling back real quick to your m d m A

425
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: experience with your ex wife, you said that that helps

426
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: with issues in your marriage to have conversations while taking that.

427
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: I have heard that before, but not really the way

428
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: that you said it, because the dosage would have an

429
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: impact on your being able to actually have a conversation

430
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: like that in a serious nature, right, rather than just

431
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: not not really chose because you know, with m d

432
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: m A is pretty standard that people will do between

433
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: a hundred and a hundred fifty grants, and so when

434
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: you're doing m d m A, you know, nobody's hallucinating.

435
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: It's not a psychedelic experience. They call the drug used

436
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: to be called it in pathoging because it helps to

437
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: open up your heart. In fact, at some point the

438
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: nickname was originally gonna be like something like empathy. But

439
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: people realize, you know, who wants to market a druggle empathy.

440
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 1: There's not a big market for empathy. Let's call it ecstasy,

441
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 1: and so ecstasy became the nickname for m d m A.

442
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: But I think the key thing is that when the

443
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: drug comes on and it's two people and you're in

444
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: a relationship, the ability to process stuff, to process things

445
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: that have been bugging one or the other to talk

446
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: about them in a respectful way, an empathic way. It

447
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 1: basically causes defenses to melt in a way. And I

448
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: think that's it's great with with with my ex wife.

449
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: You know, we were in a very difficult spot, but

450
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: we did it together and we're able to talk and

451
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: we actually thought for a while, as did our marriage counselor,

452
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: that oh my god, our marriage is gonna be saved here.

453
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 1: And in the end, you know, it wasn't enough. But

454
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: I do think we landed up with a safer landing

455
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: and became and wonderful co parents and friends thereafter, and

456
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: subsequent relationships, you know, it was. It's always been valuable

457
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: in terms of dealing with the stuff that builds begins

458
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: to build up in a relationship, that that needs to

459
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: get processed, that needs to get talked about. So I

460
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: think just being there quiet place, have that conversation, and

461
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: while you're in the conversation, remembering that it's not the

462
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: kind of drug you can keep using over and over

463
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: and over and over over again. If the idea is

464
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,959
Speaker 1: to as you're doing it and as you're having this heartfelt,

465
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: honest understanding and pathet conversation to be thinking about ways

466
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: in which you can get back to that spot the

467
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: next day and the next week and the next month

468
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: without having to use the drug repeatedly. Right, it's good

469
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: to come back and use it occasionally. I'm talking about

470
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: using it three, four or five times a year, not

471
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: using it weekly and never mind daily or something like that.

472
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: And it kind of depletes you right of your serotonin.

473
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: If you think about you know, prozac, they both act

474
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: on the serotonin level. That essentially, prozac is a mattress

475
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: and M D m A is a trampoline, And so

476
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: oftentimes the next day people can feel a bit depleted,

477
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: although I'll tell you the first time I did it,

478
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: I felt great the next day. Yeah. I always feel

479
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: it the next day in my system in a good way,

480
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: not a bad way, in a good way. Yeah. So

481
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: that's that's great. That's great. I think if I have

482
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: found this is just once again anecdotal, when I would

483
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: do with friends and the next day we all jump

484
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: on the plane's to go back home, I noticed that

485
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: a surprising number as we get a cold and we

486
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: get thick in the following days. So I think it's

487
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: it's good to understand that your system just to maybe

488
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: somewhat compromised the following day and just take it easy.

489
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: And like oft time telling that people don't do it

490
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: on a Sunday, do it on a Saturday. Make sure

491
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: you have a day to take off between the day

492
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: you take it and the day you're back and work,

493
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: because what I find is that it melts your defenses,

494
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: and the defenses don't just jump right back up to

495
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: so to throw yourself right back into work the next

496
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: day when your defense is they're still kind of down,

497
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, and ships flying at you in the work environment,

498
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: you're not quite ready to deal with it. You need

499
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: that recovery time that at least a day of recovery

500
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: time after you do it. Yeah, and also it's good

501
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: to take BE twelve before doing it and after doing

502
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: it to help with that kind of they call it

503
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: like suicide Tuesday. It's not suicide, right, suicide I don't know.

504
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 1: It's usually two days after you take it that some

505
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: people can have like a depressive episode. Right. This doesn't

506
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: happen to everybody, but people can. It can happen. So

507
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: it's always good to take B twelve. Okay, Well, Ethan,

508
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: we're excited you're here today. We have a show where

509
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 1: we have people call in for advice. So you're going

510
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: to be our guest and Katherine's going to give us

511
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: the low down. But first we're going to take a break,

512
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: right Catherine. Yeah, We're gonna take a quick break for

513
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: an ad and we'll be right back with some colors. Okay,

514
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: and we're back. Fantastic. Well, we have really just all

515
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: drug questions today. What a nice what a nice episode

516
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: this is going to be. It feels so warm and fuzzy. Yes,

517
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: I mean, I do have to I do have to

518
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: preface this with I am a baby drug user. I

519
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: have not really tried a whole lot of things. Haven't

520
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: tried mushrooms, that sort of thing. Have minimally tried marijuana.

521
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: Just wait till you come to my orca, Katherine. Don't worry,

522
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: just wait. You have so much to look forward. And

523
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: with N d n A, I'm oftentimes most envious. I

524
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: call them the N d n A virgins because if

525
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: you've never done it before, the first time is often

526
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: times the best ever. So I'm kind of excited. I

527
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: do have to say I won the second place prize

528
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: in the Dare Essay writing competition in fifth grade, but

529
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: second place was better than first place because she got

530
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: like a tour of the police department and I got

531
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: a pizza party. So yeah, seriously, hello, prizes are in

532
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: the wrong order for that contest, exactly exactly. So our

533
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: first question comes from Jamie. She says, Chelsea, you were

534
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: talking think about CBD today when I was listening to

535
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: Glennon's episode. I've tried many CBD products and I don't

536
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: ever feel any effect. Can you recommend a specific amount

537
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: or brand so I can feel the effects. I try

538
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: to pop Brownie ones and it threw me into a

539
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: terrible panic attack. I don't want to feel bad again.

540
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: I just want to feel calm and sleep. Thanks Jamie, Well, CBD,

541
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: if you're not feeling anything, I would say not to

542
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: be opposed to adding a little th HC ratio to it.

543
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're taking c I don't really feel

544
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: CBD when I take that by itself either. I'd usually

545
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: take that for when I'm skiing for pain management for

546
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: my knee, but I would say to throw in a

547
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: little th HC, like you don't you know? It could

548
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: be like two point five milligrams of t HC against

549
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: a higher percentage or higher ratio of cb D for

550
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a buzz to help you

551
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: so you can actually feel it without overdoing it. Ethan,

552
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on this matter? Yeah, I really

553
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I do do CBD. All the

554
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: stuff about the rub bombs and this and that, and

555
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: it drops. There's not a lot of evidence out there

556
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: about how using it in that form is actually helpful,

557
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: and it's usually not psychoactive. There are studies that show

558
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: that CBD has been helpful in some very serious medical conditions,

559
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: but a lot of it's been hype. It's hard to say. Now.

560
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: There is a website out there called Project CBD, a

561
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: guy named Martin Lee, who I think is one of

562
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: the most honorable you know. I don't think he's taken

563
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: money from anyone company to promote one or the other.

564
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: So I keep your eye on that Project CBD website

565
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: and they may provide some guidance about what are the

566
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 1: more reliable or less reliable both brands and ways of

567
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: taking it or not taking it. The idea that Chelsea

568
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: said about combining it with THHD and small amounts, I mean,

569
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, the plant produces the marijuana plant produces both

570
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: th HC and CBD, and so that's why you see

571
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: a lot of the edibles. Sometimes we'll have a th

572
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: HC CBD combination. I think it's generally a good idea

573
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: to use th HC with some CBD. Sometimes people have

574
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: issues of marijuana and anxiety may find that if you're

575
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: using th HC with no CBD in it, and may

576
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: exacerbate the anxiety because CBD is supposed to be an

577
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: anti anxiety drug. So I'd say, no fantastic information out there,

578
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: but you can dig around and try to use the

579
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: drugs in combination. And what's the name of that website again,

580
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: I think it's called Project CBD or just google Martin

581
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: Lee CBD, which is what I just did. Yeah, you know,

582
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: I like the idea of combining it. There was a

583
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: time when I was using a lot of CBD. I

584
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: also didn't really feel anything. But Brad, my husband, and

585
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: I went to the beach and I had been using

586
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: like a CBD vape pretty heavily that day, and we

587
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: decided like, okay, we're gonna like take a couple of

588
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: hits of this very strong joint that we got as

589
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: a as a wedding favor at my brother Ethan's wedding

590
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: and we both took one hit and we're just I mean,

591
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: it was beyond It was way too much. It was

592
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: super super strong. And usually when I have too much marijuana,

593
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: I get very like unhappy, panicky. It activates all that

594
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: stuff for me. But since i'd had so much CBD,

595
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: I was very calm, even though I was like, I'm

596
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: way more stone than I want to meet. But it

597
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: really helps from that perspective of like, just gave me

598
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: a chill time. Hm, that makes sense. You know a

599
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: lot of times a lot of people have issues with

600
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: anxiety and marijuana. I think a lot of them I

601
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: find that the first time they did marijuana, they did

602
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: it in a social environment, oftentimes with people they were

603
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: not necessarily that comfortable with. And so I think the

604
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: best way to deal with that is when you're using marijuana,

605
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: either to overcome that fear of anxiety or using it

606
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: for the first time, try to do in a place

607
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: where you're either if either by yourself or with your

608
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: lover or close friends, where you're really comfortable, where there's

609
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: nobody you have to be on with nobody you have

610
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: issues with and if possible, do it not in like

611
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: the same place, like the TV room or whatever, but

612
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: trying to find a nice place outside, you know, whether

613
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: it's the woods or a lake or something that's not

614
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: your normal you know, sitting environment. Just alter it a bit. Well.

615
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: Our next question comes from Michelle. Michelle says, Dear Chelsea,

616
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm going on a camping trip this month with my

617
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: husband and two other couples. We all plan on doing

618
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: mushrooms together. The other couples do this yearly and are

619
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: inviting us for the first time. I don't have much

620
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: experience with drugs. I smoked weed a bit in my

621
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: early twenties, and I've done coke once. I'm a little

622
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: nervous of the possibility of a quote bad trip. I

623
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: feel extremely safe with my friends, and I know they'll

624
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: guide me through the experience. I'm mostly nervous about my husband.

625
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: He's very experienced with drugs, although he has never done mushrooms.

626
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: But my main worry is his reaction if I do

627
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: have a bad trip. He would prefer me not to partake,

628
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: and I'm scared that my fear of his reaction could

629
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: make me have a negative experience. What's your advice to

630
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: have an enjoyable experience for my first time Michelle. Hi, Michelle,

631
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: I think first off, you have to stop telling yourself

632
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: you're not going to have a good experience, because that's

633
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: like a self fulfilling prophecy. You have to go into

634
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: drugs always like you're using the drug. The drug is

635
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: not using you. That's how I feel about any time

636
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: I take drugs. Anytime I'm not in control of the

637
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: situation is when I'm not in control of the situation.

638
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: So I would just say to do you know, if

639
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: you're worried about your experience, just do half of what

640
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: everybody's doing, and you're gonna have a good time. Mushrooms

641
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: make you laugh, they make you relax. They you will

642
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: be probably laughing the hardest you've ever laughed in your life.

643
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: That's usually what happens to people the first time they

644
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: do mushrooms. Ethan, what has you've been your experience with

645
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: people who have bad trips on mushrooms. I mean, so,

646
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: I think your advice to Michelle is right on the

647
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: Other thing I would tend to say is that Michelle

648
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: and her husband should have a conversation beforehand and maybe

649
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: with their friends there just think. Listen. I want you

650
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: to know, dear husband, that if I need some help

651
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: during this, I'm not expecting you to be there. Please

652
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: don't worry about me, and have one of the friends

653
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: saying we're in charge here. Say to the husband, you

654
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: can relax if you're having your own good trip, bad trip.

655
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Don't feel an obligation. You want to be together, be together,

656
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: but don't get into a mode of needing this for

657
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: one of the other. And we the friends are here

658
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: to help in that and thereby take the pressure. So,

659
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: for example, it does You're right, it's highly unlikely to

660
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: go in the wrong direction. But if it does, that

661
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: the husband's not gonna feel guilty for not being president.

662
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Is having the friends there the host, they're saying, we

663
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: got this. You relax. When she's a little better, you

664
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: guys can be together. Something along those lines. Yeah. And

665
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: just for the record, I know this is I mean,

666
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: I don't speak for the entire universe, even though i'd

667
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: like to. I would like to say that I've never

668
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: been around anybody who had a bad trip on mushrooms.

669
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: And I do them all the time. I've done them

670
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: dozens of times. I did have two trips that I

671
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: would regard as that we went into a very dark place,

672
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: um where I just began to feel enormously depressed. And

673
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: I used two different approaches to deal with it the

674
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: first time, and it felt a little bit light cheating

675
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: was that when into when it went into a very

676
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: dark place, I had some M D M A around,

677
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, ecstasy, and I just took a little M

678
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: D M A and that just lifted it up into

679
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: a beautiful place. Again. It's one reason why sometimes people

680
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: can buy and mushrooms in M D M A, because

681
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: it both enhances the possibility will go into a beautiful

682
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: spot and it minimizes the chance of going into a

683
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: dark spot. Now the other way to do it and

684
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: the real possibility that it goes into a dark place.

685
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: And this I remember I was doing it with my partner.

686
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: We'ant a beat and it went into a very dark place.

687
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: Everything felt black and dark and crumbling and dying and

688
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. And you can't The thing is,

689
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: you cannot run away from a bad trip. You can't

690
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: run away from it. And so what I did was

691
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: I almost envisioned that darkness of the bad trip is

692
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: like a huge wave and you know, when you swing

693
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: in the ocean and then you see also a big

694
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: wave coming, you can't run from it, because then you'll

695
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: get you know, crash on you, you'll tumbling, you might

696
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: hurt yourself. The only choice when a big wave is

697
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: coming is to dive into it, dive underneath it, dive

698
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: through it. And so I practically, like musically, almost dived

699
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: into the sand. But like you know, I mean, you know,

700
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: literally in a way or you know, a metaphorically, the

701
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: way was into the way of the darkness, and I

702
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: kind of came out of it. I came out of it,

703
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: and all of the things just lifted and it became

704
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: this magnificent trip for the rest of it. So I

705
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: would say, you're right to tell her, don't worry about

706
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: the bad one. It's highly unlikely. You have friends around

707
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: who can take care of you. Don't worry about your

708
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: husband's reaction. If it does go in a dark place,

709
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: there are ways to deal with it. And whatever case,

710
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: even if it is dark, you're gonna get better in

711
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: a few hours and you'll be fine the next day.

712
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: And many times people say they find that even going

713
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: into a dark place on mushrooms are ayahuasca they may

714
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: go through a terrifying place, especially with ayahuasca, and then

715
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: the next day they said, my god, that was the

716
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: most magnificent experience in my life because of how much

717
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: I've learned, how much I've benefited. Yeah, so I would

718
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: just say to lower the dosage compared to what your

719
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: friends are taking, you know, just for you in beginning,

720
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: Just take half so that you're not going to be,

721
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, out of control, and then if you like it,

722
00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: you can take more. Yes. Great, Well, we have our

723
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: first caller of the day today. This is Annie. Annie says,

724
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: dear Chelsea. I was diagnosed with complex PTSD about fifteen

725
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: years ago, but I've struggled with it for over twenty years.

726
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: I've tried many different forms of therapies, medications, and THHC,

727
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: which have helped some but never completely. My symptoms have

728
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: become much worse during the last few years, with running

729
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: from fires in California, COVID, and just the general ship

730
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: show that is our world. I'm now struggling to leave

731
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: the house, and I've been isolating myself to an extreme.

732
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I'm bordering on agoraphobia. Even my work

733
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: zooms have become a source of anxiety. I'm planning to

734
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: email my doctor to talk to him about some beta

735
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: blockers to help with the short term issues. I heard

736
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: you talk about this on your show the other day,

737
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: and I have never tried them before. My question to

738
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: you is, I'm considering some alternative treatments, including micro dosing, psilocybin,

739
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: m D m A, or therapeutic ketamine. I've read that

740
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: in some instances they are curing PTSD with these treatments,

741
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: which I had been told would never be possible. I'd

742
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: rather try psilocybin, but that seems less legal at the

743
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: moment and harder to come by. I feel lost in

744
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who to talk to about this.

745
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: My doctor is pretty judgmental, and I would never bring

746
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: this up to him. Do you have any advice on

747
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: resources to learn more about these types of treatments. I've

748
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: obviously googled it, but I'm not sure who to trust.

749
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: I can't be the only one whose symptoms have become

750
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: much worse during this COVID apocalypse time. Thank you both

751
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: for doing what you do. Your show has been a

752
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: great source of comfort and much needed laughter. Annie. Hi, Annie, Hi,

753
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: Annie h that's Ethan he's our guest today. I'm so

754
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: sorry that you're dealing with this. Annie. Oh thank you,

755
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: But just know that this is temporary. You're not going

756
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: to feel like this forever, and you're not alone. So

757
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: many people feel like this after COVID and have anxiety,

758
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: and you know there are ways to fix it. But Ethan,

759
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: do you want to start with some resources, because you're

760
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: probably the man for that. Just a few things. I mean,

761
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: first of all, I think when it comes to microdo

762
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: is saying with mushrooms or something like that, if you

763
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: can get a hold of them, even just you know,

764
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: not even pure philocide mushrooms, there's relatively little risk with

765
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: doing that at a very very low level. I mean,

766
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: maybe it helps, maybe not, if there's not much evidence

767
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: on it. I think the place I'd start is with ketamine,

768
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: because ketamine is legal, and I think the first place

769
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: I probably the godfather of ketamine assisted psychotherapy as a

770
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: fellow named Phil Wilson up in Marin County in California,

771
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: and he's got a whole bunch of websites, So just

772
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: Google and Phil Wilson and kennamine. One of his top

773
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: proteges is a doctor in the New York area. Gita

774
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: bade I actually interviewed her on my podcast Psychoactive not

775
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: long ago, and she speaks about the art of doing

776
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: psychotherapy assisted by ketamine, and because that's legal, it's going

777
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: to be easier to access the challenges to find the

778
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: best therapists, and I think starting up with Phil Wilson

779
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: is a way to go. Now, m d m A

780
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: is probably going to get approved by the Food and

781
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: Drug Administration the FDA sometime later this year next year

782
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: for treatment of Pete s D. So there are already

783
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: research programs they're emitting patients. So if you just google PTSD,

784
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: m d m A Psychedelic Therapists something like that, you'll

785
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: probably see people popping up. The organization maps, which is

786
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: the Multi Disapline Associated Psychologic Studies, has been the one

787
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: driving this process for with the FDA, and they're training

788
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: people all around the country to be therapists. So that's

789
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: probably the other place I would look. And once you

790
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: start nosing around, then people will start to recommend to

791
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: you therapists who are using m d m A assisted psychotherapy,

792
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: not fully legally yet, but where it's becoming more and

793
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: more common. Okay, thank you, do you know have you

794
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: heard of maps, Annie, I have heard of MAPS. I've

795
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: done some reading about it. I just yeah, it doesn't

796
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: seem like it was widely available yet. So well, they

797
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: basically have research programs now, so sometimes if you can

798
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: still get into one of those. But once you start

799
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: calling around, people will let you know about psychotherapists who

800
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: are provide being this sort of help, either using psilocybin

801
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: or m D M A, but starting off with ketamine

802
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: simply because it's legal. Just finding the right therapist I

803
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: think really is the way to go. Okay, perfect, thank you.

804
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: And what state are you in, Annie, I'm in California.

805
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Well that's easy to find in California guided

806
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: kenemine trips. I have a few friends that are doing that.

807
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I didn't know that that was really a

808
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: thing here. I've seen it like in southern California, but

809
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm in northern California. Phill Wilson is right up in

810
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: Marin and he's the godfather of kenemine. So definitely check

811
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: out his website and see what you can find out there. Okay, great,

812
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: thank you, Yeah, and you know, try and in the meantime,

813
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: Beta blockers. If you get those prescription, that's a short

814
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: term solution, but it also does kind of the neuropathways.

815
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: It changes those. In my experience, I've taken beta blockers

816
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: and you don't have to take them all the time.

817
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: You take them and it kind of sets up a

818
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: new pattern of thoughts so that you don't get that

819
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: nervous energy. I do look at it as a short

820
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: term solution. I think that the ketamine and everything else

821
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: is a deeper, more spiritual solut san to you know,

822
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: the anxiety and the discomfort you're feeling. Yeah, there's also

823
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: a brilliant doctor writer think her name Julie Holland, who

824
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: talks a lot about this stuff. So just google Julie

825
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: Holland and I think you'll come across some interesting information

826
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: as well. Thank you. Okay, Annie, take care. Let let

827
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: us know how it go. Yeah, let us know how

828
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: it goes. Okay, Well, thank you so much. Sure, all right, Well,

829
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: our next question comes from Katie. Katie asks, dear Chelsea

830
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: on the show, I heard you talking about micro dosing

831
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: chocolate mushrooms. I'm an elementary school special ed teacher, and

832
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: my weed and zan X intake increased substantially over the pandemic.

833
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: I talked to her a little bit about it, and

834
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: her zanex increase was really linked to a really high

835
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: stress job that she had. I'm looking to take a

836
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: break from the weed, but I know I'll be very unpleasant.

837
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the chocolate fung guy and where it

838
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: can find them safely. Thanks Katie, and she's actually here

839
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: with us on the phone as well. Hi Katie, Hi there. Yeah,

840
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: I think mushrooms are a great pivot for you. Are

841
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: mushrooms legal? What? What states legally sell mushrooms? Ethan? No,

842
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: there's no place where its legal, although if you figure

843
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: out a way to grow it, there's all these sort

844
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: of guys to growing you at home, and so large

845
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: numbers of people are doing that now. I'll also tell

846
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: you I don't know where you are, but like here

847
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: in New York City where they have all these marijuanna

848
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: delivery services that are still illegal, but nobody's going after

849
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: them anymore. More and more of them are selling chocolate mushrooms.

850
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I've now seen these menus which used to

851
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: just be different types of marijuana edible and smokable, and

852
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: now they're including you know, mushrooms in little powders and

853
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: mushrooms and chocolate. So you know, if you if you know,

854
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: where do you live. I live in New England and

855
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: I use a delivery one of those you know, same

856
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: type of things, so I'll have to check that out.

857
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: I haven't even bothered to look at their edibles. M hmm. Yeah.

858
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: Just ask your delivery service if they happen to vide

859
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: mushrooms and if they don't, if they know somebody who does.

860
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: Because I'm amazed and how much this it is taken

861
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: off in the marijuana delivery world, that you're carrying these

862
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: things as well. Yeah, that's been my biggest issue is

863
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: being you know, old enough to know that online is

864
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: not where it's at to be trusted necessarily, and then

865
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: not being young enough to really know anybody that's still

866
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: growing or got stuff like that around, And so I

867
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: was kind of stuck. And my doctor was more concerned

868
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: with the xan x used leading to Alzheimer's more than

869
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: anything else, which kind of scared me. And then that

870
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: was kind of like, Okay, I really like to back

871
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: off of that and not need it so much. So

872
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: if I had a different option other than the weed

873
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: that would be great because at this point I just

874
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: smoke all the time. What about with weed? I mean,

875
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: because the Zannex is the one from a health perspective,

876
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: it has a lot more risks, and weed has relatively

877
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: fewer risks. And it might be a matter of changing

878
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: the way you're consuming weed or the you know, maybe

879
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: shifting to a drink couple of self with low THHC

880
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 1: content in it, and those can be kind of nice.

881
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: I don't already tried that. Yeah, my issue is that

882
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: I my consumption is just off the charts, and like

883
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: I'd make my own tincture that's a hundred twenty milligrams

884
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: per melo leader and make my own gummies and sometimes

885
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: feel them. Chelsea talked about chocolate mushrooms as as an alternative,

886
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: and I was really curious about it. Yeah, I think

887
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: what Ethan said is pretty accurate. Though, Like anyone who's

888
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: delivering weed is also delivering mushrooms because they're everywhere. Everywhere

889
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: I go, somebody hands me mushrooms. I wish I could

890
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: hand them to you right now. I want to go

891
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: to there. But yeah, but yeah, you you should investigate

892
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: and if it's not that we delivery service, that you're using,

893
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: look for some other ones, because I guarantee you'll find

894
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: them there. You know. Just don't overdo it when you're

895
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: trying mushrooms for the first time. Again, make sure you're

896
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: just doing like a half a dose to see how

897
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: what your reaction is. And then once you're comfortable with it,

898
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: you know how to tightrate or increase or whatever you're after,

899
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: which is relief. Yeah, I was gonna say, what is it?

900
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: How would you describe that feeling well with mushrooms? I

901
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: find that I just have a lot of clarity and

902
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: I feel up. If I take chocolate mushrooms, Like with

903
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: my girlfriends, I'll take more to laugh, you know, and

904
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: just be silly, but mostly I take them, you know.

905
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: I took one yesterday. My friend had some mushroom morning mushrooms,

906
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: and it had like all these other ingredients in it

907
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: that we're just like wake up natural ingredients and and

908
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: herbs and stuff like that. So and that stuff is

909
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: just so minimal. You just feel a little bit more

910
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: clarity and just a little sharper, you know, on it,

911
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: and upbeat and ready to go, kind of like a

912
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: cup of coffee without it. I was just gonna say,

913
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: my TikTok algorithm locked on into sending me mudwater. Is

914
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: that something similar to what you're talking about? Yeah, the

915
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: mudwater is. I love it. I think it's very tasty,

916
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: but it's a little bit more of like a coffee

917
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: substitute rather than Yeah, it's like adapt to gen mushrooms

918
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: for health and and that sort of thing. But it's tasty,

919
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,479
Speaker 1: it tastes like ty t you know, but not gonna

920
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: get you high. No. So here's one more question too.

921
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: Would you both suggest that she sort of tapered down

922
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: the marijuana use before trying the mushrooms or use them

923
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: in conjunction with each other. Well, what's the negative effect

924
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: of the marijuana use now? For you? I mean my

925
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: bank account? Um, but I have a home garden with

926
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: all a bunch of tomato plants and then one one

927
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: lovely little sativa. So I'm, you know, trying that way.

928
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: But other than the fact that I'm spending a lot

929
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: of money and don't really get high anymore unless it's

930
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, what people would consider way overdoing it, Like

931
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: I went through like a half an ounce in the

932
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: last week. Yeah, so your tolerance is pretty high. Yeah,

933
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: because some people use marijuana as heavily as you do,

934
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: it's because you're getting some medical benefit from it. I

935
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: mean it may be serving this anti anxiety purpose definitely

936
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: is trying to pull back on the zanys and maybe

937
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: figuring out a more cost effective way, the most cost

938
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: effective way to be consuming the marijuana. And I think

939
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do the mushrooms, I don't know that

940
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: you need to cut back on the marijuana. You know,

941
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: it's there are different substances. They operate differently on your brain.

942
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: And if you're doing is Chelsea you suggest doing with

943
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: a little micro dose thing or smaller dose try it.

944
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: I mean, look, for me, the advantage of not using

945
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: cannabis every day is that when I get high, I

946
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: really enjoy getting high. Yeah, I miss that. I think

947
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: I'd more look at it through that lens to see

948
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: if you, in fact you can taper off on cannabis

949
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: or have some you know, a cannabis free day or

950
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: like each week or something like that, and just see

951
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: what that feels like. And then you can decide whether

952
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: you want to try something like a low dose mushroom,

953
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: either on your off marijuana day or even on the

954
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: days you're doing marijuana. Okay, I'm definitely curious. I might

955
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: now that I know it's it's in New York. I'm

956
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm ahead of there in a couple of days, so

957
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: I should tell you New York they haven't actually opened

958
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: up the doors for legal sale until the beginning of

959
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: the year, so so it would still be a deliver

960
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: Your service will be delivery. Some places are opening up

961
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: anyway and sort of daring the cops to addrest them

962
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: so you can find them. Yeah, I mean, they've got

963
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: better things to do at this point, really exactly. Yeah,

964
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: but you can easily find a delivery service. I mean,

965
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: that's what everybody in New York City does, you know,

966
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: if you get it delivered, So whoever you're staying with,

967
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 1: you could figure that out easily. Awesome. That's so great

968
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: to know. Well, I really appreciate your your advice, and

969
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, it was cool to get to chat and

970
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: something that I wouldn't normally get to have a conversation

971
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: with on like an educated level. So that's pretty cool.

972
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Awesome, Awesome, Good luck to you. Keep

973
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: us posting alright, alright, by well, our next question really

974
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: fits well into what we just talked about with Katie

975
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: Carrie wrote in She Says, Dear Chelsea. I've been dating

976
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: my boyfriend for four years now. We're in our late twenties.

977
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: He's always very openly loved smoking weed. I don't personally

978
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: partake very often because it makes my anxiety worse, but

979
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: lots of my friends and family do, so I'm very

980
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: familiar with being around it. In the early years of

981
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: our relationship, I saw no problem with his smoking because

982
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: we were young. It seemed less destructive than drinking, and

983
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: I didn't feel it was my place to judge. However,

984
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: he's almost thirty now and he smokes every single day.

985
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: He'll smoke right when he gets home from work, and

986
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: again multiple times throughout the night until we go to bed.

987
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: On the weekends, he smokes almost immediately after waking up.

988
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: Often he can't even eat without it because he's used

989
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: to relying on it to induce hunger. To his credit,

990
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: his personality isn't altered much when he smokes. He doesn't

991
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: get quiet or sleepy as I know some people do.

992
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: I still enjoy being around him, even though he sometimes

993
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: does have a bad memory because of it. My question is,

994
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: how do you know when smoking we becomes a problem.

995
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: We're approaching the age where we make more serious commitments

996
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: like marriage and kids, and this feels like the elephant

997
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: in the room. I've spoken to him multiple times about this,

998
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: but rather than having a conversation, he shuts down my

999
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: concerns as me having an outdated and biased view of marijuana.

1000
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: In his opinion, there are no bad side effects, it's

1001
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: more widely becoming legal, and there's really no reason to

1002
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: stop or slow down. Since you openly enjoy weed more

1003
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: than I do, it might be interesting to have a

1004
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 1: perspective on when and if marijuana use can go too far.

1005
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: Carry ethan, why don't you hit that out of the park. Okay?

1006
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: What I would just say to her is basically, if

1007
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: he's not really seeing any problems with his youth, And

1008
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: then she said maybe his memory isn't as good because

1009
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: he's smoking weed. But I think the bottom line is basically,

1010
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Getting older is not an issue.

1011
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: He's getting defensive in the relationship with you is not

1012
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: going to be productive. He's already indicated he can hear

1013
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: criticism of that side of his life. Is quite possible

1014
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: that he's using this in a way that's more medical

1015
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: than anything else, since he's probably really not getting very

1016
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: high anymore. He's just using it on a very regular basis.

1017
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: So I can understand feeling a little irritated by the

1018
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: fact that that thing is always in life and it's

1019
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: not something you share much, and maybe even feeling a

1020
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: little jealous of it in some respect. But unless you

1021
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: can pinpoint problems with it, I would just leave it alone.

1022
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: And it's quite possible that the day will come and

1023
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: the moment will come when he comes to the conclusion

1024
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: that maybe he wants to stop doing it. But if

1025
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: he's got his backup, because you're getting more and more

1026
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: critical about it, I don't think that's going to go anywhere. Good. Yeah,

1027
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: I would say the exact same thing. There's no reason,

1028
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, it is kind of an outdated stance on it.

1029
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it is becoming legal everywhere he likes using it,

1030
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,479
Speaker 1: And again what Ethan said is perfectly accurate. At this point,

1031
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: he's probably not getting that much benefit from it, unless

1032
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: it is a health benefit, because he's certainly probably not

1033
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: getting high at this point. I know when I over

1034
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: consume marijuana, it takes so much to make me high,

1035
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, you gotta kind of just like get rid

1036
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: of that way of thinking and you know, just be happy.

1037
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: It's not something like drinking or another drug. That would

1038
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: be a situation if somebody came home and they relied

1039
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: on that. You know, marijuana pretty benign and it's helpful

1040
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. So you don't know what

1041
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: kind of anxiety he might have or what other body

1042
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: aches he might have that this is helping him with that.

1043
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: He might not even be aware of himself. It might

1044
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: just be to for him to equalize. So I would

1045
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: just try and say, be a little bit more open

1046
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: hearted and open minded. Let him do his thing, and

1047
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: then you do your thing. Yeah, and there's that old

1048
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: thing of when do you know something is addictive or

1049
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: becoming a problem, and it's when you have negative consequences.

1050
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: It sounds like he's not really having negative consequences. You know.

1051
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: We've had people call into the show and and say,

1052
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, I really want to taper down my marijuana

1053
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: use or or that sort of thing. So I feel

1054
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: like if someone thinks that they do, then like, go

1055
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: for it. Definitely, your body is telling you something, your

1056
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: mind is telling you something. But it sounds like he's

1057
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: not having any any negative consequences other than this relationship issue. Yeah,

1058
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: I liked what you said that. My definition of addiction

1059
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: is addiction equals dependence plus problems. So if you're dependent

1060
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: on a drug, whether it's off you to get up

1061
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: in the morning, whether it's a statin for your cholesterol

1062
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: or a heart drug, whether it's method on because you

1063
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: were once addicted to heroin, it's not an addiction so

1064
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: long as that dependence on the drug is not a problem.

1065
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: And it sounds quite likely that with this guy, it

1066
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: sounds like it's basically a dependence, a serious dependence, but

1067
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: not really causing any problems. In fact, it sounds like

1068
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: the biggest problem is it could become a problem in

1069
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: his marriage, even if it's not causing him any problems

1070
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: in his own personal life. Apart from that. Well, on

1071
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: that note, we will take our break and we'll be

1072
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: right back with Ethan Nadelman and Chelsea. We're back, fantastic. Well, Ethan,

1073
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: did you have any advice you'd like to get from Chelsea? Wow, Chelsea,

1074
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: you know I was thinking about that. The first piece

1075
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: of advice, and if you is not specifically about drugs.

1076
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: You have this very successful podcast, and I have my

1077
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: podcast like a active which I'm trying to turn into

1078
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: a much bigger thing. So if you've got any advice

1079
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: about how to get a building audience for a podcast

1080
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: that talks about the whole spectrum of drugs and drug

1081
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: wars and drug policies and drug use, I'm all ears

1082
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,919
Speaker 1: for advice about doing something like that. Well, I mean,

1083
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: you should book a couple of celebrity guests. I'll volunteer

1084
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: to come on and talk to you about drugs. That

1085
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: will help the first thing, Yeah, to make it a

1086
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: little shiny. But I've what I've learned about podcasts. How

1087
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: long have you had your podcast? I'm in the second

1088
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: season now, so we started just over a year ago. Yeah.

1089
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: What I've learned is that it takes a couple of

1090
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: years for anybody, whether you're a famous person or less

1091
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: famous or whatever your platform is, that it takes a

1092
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: few years to really build and grow. But when you

1093
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: have a subject matter that's so many people are interested

1094
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: right now and it's such a part of our zeitgeist.

1095
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I have no I mean, you've got a

1096
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: great title, and you're very knowledgeable obviously, so I would

1097
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: imagine that people are very interested in hearing more of

1098
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: what you have to say. So I know that certainly

1099
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: our listeners have plenty of them, will be interested in

1100
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 1: that too. So I would just say, yeah, just keep

1101
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: doing it. That's how you accrue more listeners, you know,

1102
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: you just it happens slowly over time. Okay, great, Well

1103
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: I have one other question for you, which is, you know,

1104
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: when I used to be a professor and I wrote books,

1105
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: academic books and a lot of writing. But in the

1106
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: last and twenty years, I've been writing less and less,

1107
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: and now I want to write a book about my

1108
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: life and about drugs, and I'm kind of blocked. And

1109
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: I see that you've had like five or six best

1110
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: sellers and a lot of them about your life. So

1111
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: how did you actually get those books done and out

1112
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: with a lot of cannabis? Quite frankly, that's really that

1113
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 1: that that is the best use of cannabis that I've

1114
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: ever had. When I have a task at hand, a

1115
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: creative task, and I do all the work, but when

1116
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: I have to go in and polish and deliver is

1117
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 1: when I use cannabis and or mushrooms. Mushrooms also micro

1118
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: docing mushrooms helps me focus. But yeah, because you get

1119
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: organized and then you get hyper focused. Cannabis helps me

1120
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: lose myself in something, but I have to have the

1121
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: subject there, you know what I mean. Like if I

1122
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: go work out, I can lose myself and working out.

1123
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: If I'm writing, I can lose myself and writing. If

1124
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on my bed, I'm gonna lose myself on

1125
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: my phone. But you just I like to choose the

1126
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: activity that I'm going to lose myself in. But I

1127
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: would definitely say cannabis has been a huge contributor to

1128
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: my the success of my books. Wow. Wow, Well, I'll

1129
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: tell you I keep meaning to start kind of microdocing

1130
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: mushroom routine, but I keep forgetting to do it. So

1131
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: it maybe that that maybe the answer for me, because

1132
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: sometimes I found with cannabis like I find a hard

1133
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: time writing with it because I sort of forget, like

1134
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: I lose my train of thought, you know, I forget

1135
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 1: what it was I wrote just it was just thinking

1136
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. It's one reason I don't like

1137
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: giving a speech or doing interview under the influence of cannabis,

1138
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: because it's problematic in that way, whereas mushrooms can be

1139
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: more focusing so I maybe have to make more of

1140
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: a serious effort there. Yeah, just put it together as

1141
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: your responsibility to get your book done right. You're right,

1142
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: and you need to start your mushroom routine. Sounds good.

1143
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: Sounds good, Ethan, thank you so much for being on

1144
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 1: the podcast today. I loved everything you had to say. Well,

1145
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: I look, I love doing it. It was great to

1146
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: team up with you on answering those questions, Chelsea, and

1147
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: I really admire so all the ways that you've been

1148
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,479
Speaker 1: out there on the drug issue and on so many

1149
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: others or politics aligned very much and I appreciate both

1150
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: your courage and sort of really speaking, I saw you

1151
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: were speaking out about this drug stuff before marijuana was legal,

1152
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 1: and you were speaking about psychedelics and doing episodes about

1153
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: it on Netflix and all those where when this was

1154
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: not quite so cool and hips, so you were one

1155
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: of the pioneers and getting this out and I really

1156
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: do appreciate that. Thank you, Thanks, Sad, Thanks Okay, bye

1157
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: bye bye. So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just

1158
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: send us an email at Dear Chelsea project at gmail

1159
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production of I Heart

1160
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: Radio Executive produced by Nick Stuff produced by Catherine Law

1161
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert.