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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking affordable home cooked meals that are

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Speaker 1: good enough with lean Brown. So you know how your

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Speaker 1: friends they have different like specialties, like you know who

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Speaker 1: to call if you need a plumber recommendation, or you

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Speaker 1: know which friend has the best beach recommendations in Florida. Well,

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Speaker 1: Leanne Brown is who comes to mind when it comes

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Speaker 1: to eating really well but for less. Leanne calls herself

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Speaker 1: your friend in the kitchen and her New York Times

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Speaker 1: best seller Good and Cheap is now free and has

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Speaker 1: been downloaded millions of times. Will make sure to link

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Speaker 1: to that in the show notes. Uh And now, her

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Speaker 1: new cookbook, good Enough, was just published last week. It's

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Speaker 1: a mix of essays, personal stories, and delicious recipes, as

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Speaker 1: she also acknowledges the fear and anxiety that many have

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Speaker 1: when it comes to cooking. We're gonna talk about all

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Speaker 1: of that and more today. Leanne. Thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: us today on the podcast. Thank you for having me,

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Speaker 1: and we're looking forward to this chat. We're looking forward

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Speaker 1: to it to lean and that's because, Yeah, as two guys,

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Speaker 1: you talk about saving money a lot our go to

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Speaker 1: money saving advice when it comes to paying less for

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Speaker 1: food is shop at aldi like that I meant advice.

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Speaker 1: We're very good starting point, but we do not have

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Speaker 1: the depth of knowledge that you have. So but the

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Speaker 1: first question we ask every guest who comes on the

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Speaker 1: podcast is you know, Matt and I we drink a

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Speaker 1: craft beer on every episode because it's something that we

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of money on in the here and

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Speaker 1: now while we're trying to be intentional about saving uh

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Speaker 1: and investing for the future. What is that for you?

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Speaker 1: What's your splurge? It's a really good question, and I

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Speaker 1: have a few different directions I could go on this,

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Speaker 1: but I think I want to say fundamentally, it's like

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Speaker 1: splurge on something that makes your life better, that is

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Speaker 1: a quality of life thing, and that's definitely where I like.

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Speaker 1: I'm recording this in my bedroom and I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: how important like having a comfortable, cozy bed is for me,

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Speaker 1: and so we have I have nice sheets, and truly

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Speaker 1: I cannot My husband doesn't understand this. He's like the

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Speaker 1: sort of person who would just leave the bed like

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Speaker 1: a mess all day and just like vaguely like grab

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Speaker 1: the sheets and like kind of cocoon himself and go

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Speaker 1: to sleep. And I know many people who are like

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Speaker 1: that it is a style thing, though I think, um,

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Speaker 1: there's so many people who are just like, what's the

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Speaker 1: point of making your bed because you know you're just

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Speaker 1: going to mess it up again. And while I sort

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Speaker 1: of intellectually understand that my body like gets such profound

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Speaker 1: pleasure out of sliding into like a smooth, crisp sheet situation,

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Speaker 1: it just like I feel like my whole body can

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Speaker 1: just relax and it primes me to calm down and

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Speaker 1: go to sleep, and sleep, like sleep for me is

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Speaker 1: quality of life, like almost the number one thing. Like

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Speaker 1: if there's anything that I can do, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: yoga before bed, whether it's um, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: get enough excers of all of these things, you know,

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Speaker 1: drinking less alcohol. I can think of all these sort

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Speaker 1: of good habits that I have been trying to cultivate,

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Speaker 1: and every time I add sort of a new good habit,

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Speaker 1: almost always it comes down to, like that helps me

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Speaker 1: sleep better. And so truly it's like really that simple,

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Speaker 1: and um, so my bed beings of this really beautiful

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Speaker 1: place is super important for my quality of life. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's sort of where my splurge comes from.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you guys really really enjoy the pleasure

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Speaker 1: and connection you get from like having a good beer together,

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Speaker 1: but it's not too close to bedtime, because, like you said,

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Speaker 1: that can certainly disrupolute, disruptive. We drink while we podcast

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon, Lee, and I'm going to share a

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Speaker 1: quick story with you. You're probably gonna cringe when I

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Speaker 1: say this, but the mattress that my wife and I

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Speaker 1: sleep on that we love was a free mattress that

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Speaker 1: we got online through Facebook Marketplace. Hebody was giving away

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Speaker 1: and we actually we were like, you know what, it's

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Speaker 1: time to grow up, you know, and so we're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's order one of these mattresses that shows up in

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Speaker 1: the mail. We got it, you know, it deflated, took

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours at the spring foam combo. We did

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Speaker 1: not like it, and so we were actually one of

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Speaker 1: the folks who took advantage of that and send it

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Speaker 1: back and we pulled down that old Queen Spring mattress

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Speaker 1: down from the attic. But like you said, if it

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Speaker 1: works for us, I guess that's all. That's the only

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Speaker 1: measure we need. Yeah, I really think that, Like, I

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Speaker 1: think no judgment about how you got it, Like, if

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Speaker 1: it truly feels better for you, that's the only thing

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Speaker 1: that could possibly matter. Oh and real quick too. You know,

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Speaker 1: so Joe and I we love to ride bikes. We

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Speaker 1: read that before you moved to New York City you

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Speaker 1: used to ride your bike everywhere. Do you get out

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Speaker 1: in your bike much these days there in New York? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because my husband, I think, frankly,

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Speaker 1: as part of trying to distract himself from the state

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Speaker 1: of the world these last few weeks, has been buying

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Speaker 1: bike parts online obsessively, probably in you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: careful way that you guys enjoyed doing too, and been

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Speaker 1: just fixing up both of our bikes in small ways.

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Speaker 1: And he had kind of finished up making these few

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Speaker 1: small improvement you know, changing to new tires, um, fixing

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Speaker 1: the hub, that kind of thing. And um, we went

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Speaker 1: for a ride yesterday. It was sort of nice enough

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Speaker 1: out that we went for a little family right and

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Speaker 1: it felt fabulous. Um, but just family bike riding, right,

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Speaker 1: so good. My daughter was like, I don't like the

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Speaker 1: wind in my face, but she could deal for twenty minutes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, they're going to complain even at home.

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Speaker 1: So uh, let's let's move on. Let's talk about food

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Speaker 1: and eating well on a budget. And yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it always feels like fancy dishes that you'd get

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Speaker 1: while eating out or something they're made from these expensive

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Speaker 1: cuts of meat, or they've got like trouffles shredded all

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Speaker 1: over the top and something like that. Um, but what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is that you don't have to have a

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Speaker 1: big budget. That's not important when it comes to eating

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Speaker 1: great food. Like why do you say that? Because it's true,

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Speaker 1: there's so many of our favorite I mean, you said

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Speaker 1: what you just said is true. And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I would bring some reality to that statement that many

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Speaker 1: of the things that you're going to order out are

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Speaker 1: also actually going to be quite inexpensive. But in terms

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Speaker 1: of the ingredients that are used, Like, for example, like

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Speaker 1: let's say a fancy pasta dish that has bacon and

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Speaker 1: egg as the base, you're only using like maybe one

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Speaker 1: or two strips of bacon and a couple of eggs,

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Speaker 1: and the pasta itself is really inexpensive, but it's sort

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Speaker 1: of the technique, the way that it's being put together.

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Speaker 1: That is sort of where the value comes in. And

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Speaker 1: so when you can learn some of these techniques, which

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Speaker 1: you know, we say the word technique, you might think,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's gonna be hard. Doesn't mean it's hard,

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Speaker 1: It just means it's a couple of steps that you

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Speaker 1: just need to do and think through, and um, you

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Speaker 1: can have these really beautiful meals that can seem really

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Speaker 1: fancy just in your own kitchen really quite easily. So

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Speaker 1: I guess what I always really say is learning to

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Speaker 1: like getting sort of a basic idea of cooking, and

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Speaker 1: I really do mean cooking sort of as opposed to baking.

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Speaker 1: Cooking like learning how to you know, say, makeup pasta dish,

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Speaker 1: make a grilled cheese sandwich, like literally, like these really

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Speaker 1: really simple sorts of meals, make an egg dish for yourself,

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Speaker 1: how to saute vegetables, um, what to do with frozen peas,

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Speaker 1: you know, when to put it into the meal so

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Speaker 1: that they won't still be cold. Like these sorts of

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Speaker 1: simple techniques they can just lend such tremendous quality to

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Speaker 1: your everyday life and not at really all that higher

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Speaker 1: cost and I think and again people think like, oh gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we all know that learning to cook would like make

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Speaker 1: my life better. But I think what most people maybe

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Speaker 1: don't realize is just how quickly you can experience much

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Speaker 1: much better meals. Um Like, just learn a couple of

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Speaker 1: really simple things, learn one or two recipes really well,

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Speaker 1: things that you really really enjoy, and you can start

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Speaker 1: seeing tremendous sort of improvement in the quality of your meals.

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Speaker 1: And by that I really mean the quality of the

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Speaker 1: of how much you can enjoy your meals and look

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Speaker 1: forward to it. Yeah, I mean, I think when you

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Speaker 1: know what you're doing right, when you have some knowledge

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Speaker 1: as to the strokes you're making with your knife, or

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Speaker 1: like you you know, you're talking about technique here. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of like when you go on like go to

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Speaker 1: a museum, and if you're going through with a tour,

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Speaker 1: like a guided tour or even like the audio tour,

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Speaker 1: you're going to appreciate it so much more when you

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Speaker 1: understand what it is that you're looking at. And I

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Speaker 1: think the same can be true with your food. I

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Speaker 1: love that you talked about the difference between cooking and baking,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, we've talked about this on the show before,

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Speaker 1: how so much of life is it's more cooking, it's

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Speaker 1: not baking. It's not these precise steps that you follow.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for for those of us who do

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, a duck out of water, who

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Speaker 1: weren't taught kitchen skills, what are some specifics how do

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Speaker 1: we get a handle on the basics in order to

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable cooking well at home? What are some of

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Speaker 1: those basic techniques that you think are necessary in order

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Speaker 1: to feel confident? So, and I hate to do this,

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Speaker 1: but it really is. It is sort of an individual thing.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like okay, master, there's two and you're

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Speaker 1: good to go. Um. Of course you could try something

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Speaker 1: like that, but I think where when we're talking about confidence,

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Speaker 1: it really is about thinking about yourself, like your personal taste,

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Speaker 1: and trying to think about, like, what are five dishes

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Speaker 1: that I really enjoy when I eat out, say, and

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Speaker 1: maybe even thinking like what is sort of a salad

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Speaker 1: that I really like? What is a pasta dish that

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Speaker 1: I really like? What is a stew or a soup

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Speaker 1: that I really like? And starting at that place and

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Speaker 1: just learning how to make one or two of those things. Um,

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Speaker 1: can be just an incredible confidence builder, and I think

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Speaker 1: really putting yourself into the mix, truly thinking about your taste.

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Speaker 1: I started this by saying bacon and an egg pasta.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I really meant was like a carbonara.

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Speaker 1: Like if you see that on your menu, I think

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh carbonara, who hoo hoo, fancy fanacy. Literally

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Speaker 1: bacon and egg pasta. Like it's so simple and it's

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Speaker 1: just a matter of like how you put those things together.

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Speaker 1: We'll often have those types of ingredients in our pantry

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Speaker 1: and our fridge already. If you're a vegetarian, you know,

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Speaker 1: you may want to skip the bacon. If you're wanting

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Speaker 1: to add in more vegetable as you could do you know,

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Speaker 1: it's still quite classic to add peas, or to add

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Speaker 1: some other kind of veggies or herbs or something like that.

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Speaker 1: You can add some lemon zest. These are ways to

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Speaker 1: kind of bring in your own taste to it. But

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Speaker 1: I think so much of it is just taking is

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Speaker 1: a knowing that it is good and important. I think

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Speaker 1: to take your own personal taste into account and to

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Speaker 1: start where you are and then be really really patient

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Speaker 1: and gentle with yourself as you get going, um, celebrate

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Speaker 1: every meal you make, celebrate your effort, and appreciate yourself

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Speaker 1: for the effort that you're making on your own behalf,

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Speaker 1: and just like know that it's for everyone. It is

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Speaker 1: hard to try something new, and so don't have that

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Speaker 1: kind of self talk that I think so many of

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Speaker 1: us grow up with inside our heads, which is sort

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Speaker 1: of like, oh, I should be better at this already,

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Speaker 1: and like that's so embarrassing that I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to do that, like all of that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Try to like really leave that in the background and

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Speaker 1: celebrate yourself that you know, no matter how small, even

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Speaker 1: if it's just making toast, just appreciate the kindness of

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Speaker 1: your intention as you make um these things for yourself,

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Speaker 1: and that will kind of fuel you through. And it's

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Speaker 1: not that it's making too big a deal out of it,

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Speaker 1: or letting yourself off the hook or any of that.

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Speaker 1: It's being truthful because it is a really good thing

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Speaker 1: to make these things. And making any sort of habit

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Speaker 1: change in our lives is hard. Like we are built

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Speaker 1: as creatures of habit, we really are. And it's you know,

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Speaker 1: for all kinds of important reasons that our ancestors millions

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Speaker 1: of years ago, um needed. But so making changes in

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Speaker 1: our lives is unsettling, and so we need to actually

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Speaker 1: so poured ourselves through these experiences. And we can support

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Speaker 1: ourselves not by diminishing our efforts and making fun of

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Speaker 1: ourselves when we don't do well, but really celebrating ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And we do make make mistakes and when it does

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Speaker 1: work out not so well, to kind of roll with

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Speaker 1: it and go like, yeah, that makes sense. It's part

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Speaker 1: of learning, and you need to hold yourself to a

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Speaker 1: realistic standard and that is what will sort of allow

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Speaker 1: you to succeed in the long term totally. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: and that's so much of what you focus on within

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Speaker 1: you know, within your new book. I love how you're

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Speaker 1: talking about gravitating towards the dishes that you enjoy. How

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Speaker 1: that's a great piece of start when it comes to

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Speaker 1: how you want to improve in the kitchen. You've you know,

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Speaker 1: shared before as well, just some of this, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the specific tools and like you mentioned, you

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Speaker 1: know a second ago, you said lemon zest and that

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Speaker 1: reminded me that you talk about the microplane specifically and

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Speaker 1: how this is just this really affordable tool that has

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Speaker 1: so much utility, explain to folks why they need to

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Speaker 1: have that. Specifically, I love a microplane because, yeah, lemon

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Speaker 1: zest lines really any kind of citrus, the zest is

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Speaker 1: such as I just it makes me actually so happy.

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Speaker 1: I love when people have never really used zest before

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Speaker 1: and I can introduce it to them for the first time,

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Speaker 1: because it's so magical. If you're someone who likes cocktails

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Speaker 1: as well, you might be familiar with sort of the

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Speaker 1: beauty of the twist in the cocktail um and it's yeah, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: So like using the the outside of citrus. It has

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Speaker 1: this incredible, incredibly strong aroma and flavor because it's basically

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Speaker 1: orange oil or lemon oil or lime oil that is

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Speaker 1: inside that um the zest on the outside, and so

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Speaker 1: you add just a tiny bit of this and you're

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Speaker 1: able to scrape it off just so easily, so quickly

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Speaker 1: with the microplane, and you can add that kind of bright,

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Speaker 1: acidic flavor to anything. My friends kind of make fun

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Speaker 1: of me quite often when I'm cooking with them, or

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Speaker 1: if I'm over at their house and they're cooking somewhere, like,

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Speaker 1: should I add lemons ust to this leen? It's like,

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Speaker 1: because because I always do that. And obviously we talked

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Speaker 1: about money, and I mean I love the fact that

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Speaker 1: you focused on that so much because I mean that's

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Speaker 1: such an affordable tool, you know, Like we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about you, you know, folks going out and buying like

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Speaker 1: an air fire. I don't know how much an air

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Speaker 1: fire cost, but I know they're hot and people love them.

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Speaker 1: But I got a feeling they take up a lot

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Speaker 1: of counterspace. That's true. It's true. Well, and when when

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Speaker 1: it comes to money land part of the reason that

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Speaker 1: you're on our radar, And like, we want to talk

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Speaker 1: about your new book good Enough more as well, but

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Speaker 1: like you wrote a cookbook initially, Like your claim to

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Speaker 1: fame was the cookbook Good and Cheap, which was released

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Speaker 1: in about eating well on just four dollars a day.

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Speaker 1: Like what made you feel compelled to write that in

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Speaker 1: the first place? Um? And like, yeah, can you kind

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Speaker 1: of give us a little bit of an idea of

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Speaker 1: what your focus was in that one? Oh well, so

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Speaker 1: that came out of my master's degree and food studies

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Speaker 1: at m y U, And it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: looking at the state of things, Um, this awareness that

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Speaker 1: you know they are huge, huge millions of people, um

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Speaker 1: in the US alone who are living on a budget

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Speaker 1: about four dollars a day or less. Um. That's sort

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Speaker 1: of anyone who qualifies for food stamps, UH is living

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Speaker 1: on our snap as it's called now, but I know

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Speaker 1: most people still think of it as food stamps. The

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Speaker 1: food stamps program. It's approximately four dollars per person per day,

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Speaker 1: which is very little money. And I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of issues with that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: are always saying like, oh, nobody can eat healthy on that,

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Speaker 1: nobody can eat enough on that. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not really here to say whether or not, like on

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Speaker 1: a moral level, whether it's okay that there's literally millions

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Speaker 1: of people living on four dollars a day and we

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Speaker 1: say that that's okay. I personally don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: enough and that that's okay UM. But what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do was meet this reality where it was and offer,

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Speaker 1: you know, my own sort of knowledge as a home

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Speaker 1: cook who knows that you know, uh, you can make

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Speaker 1: really really delicious food, um for very little money if

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Speaker 1: you kind of have some technique, if you have the

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Speaker 1: confidence to put things together, that there's just so much

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Speaker 1: more that can be done, and seeing the kinds of

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Speaker 1: resources that were available to people, I just felt like

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Speaker 1: they were really lacking, um in particular, they were lacking

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Speaker 1: in uh, sort of the addition of fruits and vegetables

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Speaker 1: and sort of anything interesting. They were often these sort

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Speaker 1: of there's this attitude which you know is always there,

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Speaker 1: I think in American culture around sort of poverty and

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Speaker 1: not having enough. There's a sort of l well, you

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Speaker 1: must have done something to deserve this, This must be

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Speaker 1: kind of your fault, and and the often the resources

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Speaker 1: really reflected that. It was like, you can have this

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Speaker 1: three times photocopied church basement, you know, cookbook that I

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Speaker 1: found at a garage sale, and you should feel really

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Speaker 1: lucky that I'm letting you have this was sort of

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Speaker 1: the attitude. And to me, it was like I wanted

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Speaker 1: to create a resource and something that was beautiful and appealing,

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Speaker 1: like any other lovely cookbook out there, but that just

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Speaker 1: happened to be at a price point that could um

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Speaker 1: could work for many people. And so that you know,

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Speaker 1: because I also know that many people are walking into

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Speaker 1: into bookstores and seeing these cookbooks and feeling left out

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Speaker 1: and going like, well, I can't possibly even afford that,

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Speaker 1: so why would I even try? So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be really clear that cooking absolutely is affordable, um, and

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Speaker 1: sort of have that as a starting point. And and

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Speaker 1: you know, there's also this like belief that you can't

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Speaker 1: eat sort of healthy generally, like a healthy food, um

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Speaker 1: for a little because healthy means like green juice and

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Speaker 1: all these kinds of very expensive things. And you know,

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Speaker 1: healthy just means like eating a variety of fruits and vegetables,

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Speaker 1: and and or eating a variety of foods generally, and

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Speaker 1: trying to eat more fruits and vegetables. And certainly it's

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Speaker 1: true that you know, at this time of year, buying

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Speaker 1: a few grams of raspberries is hideously expensive. But yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: but like, but there are ways to shop and and

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Speaker 1: to cook that can sort of maximize your budget and

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Speaker 1: still like to eat eat well. And something that you

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Speaker 1: said at the beginning, which was sort of staying away

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Speaker 1: from those like expensive cuts of meat and sort of

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Speaker 1: more expensive dairy and using um, those more expensive items

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Speaker 1: like um, you know, butter and cream and expensive cheeses

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Speaker 1: and expensive meats, and using smaller quantities of those um

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Speaker 1: alongside like the cheaper stables like rice or pasta or

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Speaker 1: beans or things like that that we can, uh, you

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Speaker 1: can still have just fabulous, fabulous food. So for me,

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Speaker 1: it was you know, wanting to share that and um

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Speaker 1: and wanting to sort of in my own small, small way,

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Speaker 1: try to just like right, attempt to right this wrong

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Speaker 1: that I saw out there, and and to invite just

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Speaker 1: more people into the kitchen who may have felt left out.

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Speaker 1: I always want to just be welcoming. I think that's

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Speaker 1: like fundamentally where I always at is like welcome, welcome,

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Speaker 1: welcome as many people into the process of cooking, because

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Speaker 1: I think it's not just wonderful to eat well, but

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Speaker 1: I think the actual process of cooking is really empowering

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Speaker 1: and confidence building. Yeah, it's a good skill to have,

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Speaker 1: and to know that you can feed yourself and feed

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Speaker 1: yourself well feels good and it brings the light. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it also helps foster community. I mean, there's so

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Speaker 1: many good things about cooking. And yeah, I love that

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Speaker 1: you say you don't have to eat junk food if

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Speaker 1: you don't have much money, like there's a way, And

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00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: you also give people the free resource the downloadable the

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Speaker 1: downloadable copy of that book. Um, Lean, we want to

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Speaker 1: talk about more. We want to talk about cooking when

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Speaker 1: you have kids. We want to talk about food waste,

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Speaker 1: we want to talk about leftovers. We'll get to some

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Speaker 1: of our questions on that front with you right after

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Speaker 1: this break. Alright, we're back. We're talking about how we

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Speaker 1: can cook home cooked meals that are affordable, that are

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Speaker 1: good enough. We're talking with Lean Brown, and we were

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Speaker 1: just talking about her previous book, Good and Cheap and

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Speaker 1: Lee and one of the things actually that you do

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00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: in that cookbook as well as you put the total

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Speaker 1: costs for the for the dishes as well as the

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Speaker 1: cost per serving, which I thought was was genius as well.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk now about your new book, good Enough.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to know more about this new book, Like

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Speaker 1: it does have some recipes, but it also is it's

397
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Speaker 1: kind of part memoir, you know, with like a you

398
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Speaker 1: know a little dash of self care advice in there.

399
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Speaker 1: And so what made you write this book that sort

400
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Speaker 1: of defies literary genres? Yeah, well it didn't. It actually

401
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: came a lot out of my experiences with Good and Cheap.

402
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: I had this sort of in build assumption when I

403
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 1: created good and cheap, and then when it ended up

404
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: being this sort of surprise success and UM. I ended

405
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 1: up touring all over the country, being in so many

406
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: different rooms, talking to so many different people, both in

407
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: person people and UM people emailed me people UM contacted

408
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: me in so many different ways. Sometimes it was like, oh,

409
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Speaker 1: how do you cook greens or something, but often it

410
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: was What I found was people were more likely to

411
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: be sharing their personal stories. Often it was growing up

412
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Speaker 1: without a lot of money or having or being in

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Speaker 1: some way affected by this, you know, working with people

414
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Speaker 1: who are struggling to UM feed themselves now or feed

415
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: their family, or who have goals that they're not meeting

416
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Speaker 1: and they're frustrated, or who hate cooking but want to

417
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Speaker 1: love it, you know, all these kinds of experiences. And

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Speaker 1: what I began to notice on what I just found

419
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Speaker 1: that I couldn't look away from, was that so many

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00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: people it didn't it wasn't even about the cost of things.

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00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: It was about something deeper. It was about feeling like

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00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: they weren't worth the effort, Like at some level there

423
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: was some shame that had gone so deep inside that

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Speaker 1: it was really hard to come out from that you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a good enough cook, I'm not a good

426
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: enough person to even work on this for or um,

427
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 1: there's so much of this kind of pain or this

428
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: sort of personalite, like there's something wrong with me that

429
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Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this, that I have

430
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: so far kind of failed at this. These all these

431
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: just really really harsh beliefs that people were holding about themselves.

432
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: And there, you know, where there were times where I

433
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: was so privileged to be in a position, I think,

434
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: to soothe some of those painful feelings and maybe to

435
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: create the beginnings of some healing. But I couldn't look

436
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: away from us also because I, you know, I related

437
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: to it, and and I found that I was reflected

438
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 1: in my own journey of cooking, but also just in

439
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: life in general of you know, dealing with anxiety and

440
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: depression for much of my life. And so I found

441
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 1: that I wanted to share the way that cooking kind

442
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: of helped me figure myself out, help me find confidence,

443
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: help me find creativity, and the way that I use

444
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: it as sort of a deep kind of self care,

445
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: not just as like oh I can make myself something delicious,

446
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: but something where I can notice, like I can rely

447
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: on myself. I can I can learn to trust myself,

448
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: I can do all these things. And so it started

449
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: out as as something where I was like, oh, I'm

450
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: going to tell the stories of all these folks that

451
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: I met. And then I realized over time that that

452
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: wasn't going to work and I had to do the

453
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: vulnerable thing and tell my own story, and that was

454
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: the only way it was going to work. So it

455
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: took quite a few years because I really resisted that. Um,

456
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it, but I'm so glad

457
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: I did because I think that what I realized in

458
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: over time once I finally broke down and stopped resisting,

459
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: was you know, any piece of art, any book, anything

460
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: that has ever really helped me or made me feel

461
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: comforted or seen, has always come from somebody else sharing

462
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: their truth honestly. And so I realized that I need

463
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: to do that too. Yeah, well, I appreciate it. And

464
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: you you give a lot of personal anecdotes which helped

465
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: cooking feel a little more relatable because you see a cookbook,

466
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: it's like it's like the ten commandments down from on high,

467
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is what the wise person

468
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: who knows all tells to me the p on who

469
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: knows nothing, But this is very like a give and take,

470
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: which I appreciate. And and at one point in the book,

471
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: you there's this quote that stuck out to me. You

472
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: said cooking is great, but eating is essential. And that

473
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: was particularly in a section where you recommended a lot

474
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: of really basic dishes like low effort meals. So can

475
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: you talk to us about low effort meals and kind

476
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: of why we should maybe be attempting those first or

477
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: attempting those more often. Yeah, that was I think my

478
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: like me and my twenties would be like no m

479
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: about all of that. Um. I was always like such

480
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: an overachiever. For the longest time, I didn't think it

481
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: was because, you know, cooking was like sort of the

482
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: only space where I was like feeling pleasure and creativity

483
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. And now I think

484
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: part of it is becoming a parent, part of it

485
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: is just getting a little wiser, getting a little bit

486
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: more honest. But life is going to Absolutely it is

487
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: an unassailable reality that there will be so many days

488
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: we're just getting some food in your body is the

489
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: best you can do. Like that's a fact, no matter

490
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, they will whether lucky enough to not have

491
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: those days very often. You know, tragedy will happen, hardship

492
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: will happen, just too much stress, just not having enough time,

493
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: all these sorts of even you know, even not the

494
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: sort of losing people, like, not that kind of level

495
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: of pain, but just sort of the everyday pain they happen.

496
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: And so you've got to have cheese toast, you know,

497
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: you've gotta have cereal, You've gotta like it has to

498
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: be okay to eat crackers and cheese, it has to

499
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: be okay to eat like just a handful of almonds.

500
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: It has to be okay, um, to just be putting

501
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: nourishment into your body. And so I wanted to And

502
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't think that's something that people who write cookbooks

503
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: usually say. And that's totally understandable, because the point of

504
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: a cookbook is often to give people like something that

505
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: is a little bit more elevated to create. But what

506
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: I realized again with all the folks who reached out

507
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: to me in the past, was that people are longing

508
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: to know that it's okay to eat that way. Like

509
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many emails I got about

510
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: there's a set in good and cheap called stuff on toast,

511
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: and it's exactly what it sounds like. It's like, take

512
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: some leftovers, take some this takes some that um takes

513
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: some like wilted spinach, and throw it in there and

514
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: put it on some toast and you have a meal.

515
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: And I truly got so many emails from people saying, gosh,

516
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: I feel so validated, like to know it's okay. Yes exactly.

517
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: It's like what a weird position to be in that

518
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: I can kind of give people permission to eat in

519
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: a way that is working for them, and that takes

520
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: that guilt that they're feeling, this idea that they're not

521
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: doing enough that you know, whether it's you know, Instagram

522
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: or the sort of food culture creates this image that

523
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: is completely unattainable for most of us the time. Yeah,

524
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: and again, like I don't think there's anything. There's not

525
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: nobody's like trying to do anything bad. It's like everyone's

526
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: just trying to sell, like make my thing. It looks nice,

527
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: But what it does over time if you don't have

528
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: um sort of some grounding in like eating, you know,

529
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: being in a family where they cooked relatively often and Um,

530
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: you were fed in a particular way, and you know

531
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: what's normal that you know, maybe once or twice a

532
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: week you have a meal that looks kind of like that, um,

533
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: and that's what's normal, rather than for every meal you

534
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: can believe that like, oh everyone else is eating in

535
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 1: this incredible way. Everything looks great. I am, you know,

536
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: such a failure. And when you feel like a failure,

537
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: you don't want to try because you feel like you've

538
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: already failed. So it's to me things like this create

539
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: the chance for people to actually dive in and feel successful,

540
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: which is literally it, right, Like I think we all

541
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: know that sort of boring like thing that everyone talks

542
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: about this time of year, just like just showing up

543
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: is most of the battle. But it's true, And so

544
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: showing up in the kitchen, even if it's just to

545
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: grab a handful of nuts and not then saying like,

546
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm such a loser because I just

547
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: ate crackers and cheese this week. It's like, well, what

548
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: happened this week? Why did you only eat crackers and cheese?

549
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: Is that really because you're a loser? Is it? Because

550
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: this it was really intense and you don't have you know,

551
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: enough stuff around right now and you weren't able to

552
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: get to the grocery store, and like, that's okay. We

553
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: don't need to like internalize these things as problems with ourselves,

554
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: but rather problems with our circumstances. Yeah, and you hinted

555
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: at this, but you had a baby. You've got a

556
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: daughter now that's you know, pretty young, and so that

557
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: has an impact on the amount of time that you're

558
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: able to dedicate towards food. And one of the things

559
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: in your your new cookbook here good Enough, is that

560
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: I love how you put the t l d R

561
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: the too Long Didn't Read at the top, which it's

562
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: just like a one since its summary, because it quickly

563
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: gives you an idea of what this recipe is going

564
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: to entail. But then once you do have a level

565
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: of comfort where you know you've got some chops, you

566
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: know how to handle yourself in the kitchen, you can

567
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: kind of quickly look at some of those t LDRs

568
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: and they just kind of know what to do already

569
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: and you don't need to redress. And I found that incredibly.

570
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: That was just yeah, that was just really cool to

571
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: see something and to quickly do you feel good about

572
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: yourself almost like it's likely I do kind of know

573
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: how to cook it exact that is basic enough for

574
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: dummy like me. Well, and that's what I love about

575
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: doing something like that, because to me, it's like, fundamentally

576
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: that's just a shame remover, not only in terms of

577
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: just noticing like remember, you know, it looks like it's

578
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: sixteen steps, but it's like cut it up, put it

579
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: in a pan, and he wait till brown put it

580
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: in a bowl at the end, Like that's so much

581
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: of what we're doing. But um, it's sort of like

582
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: we give these intricate steps so that you can really

583
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: have success, so you can understand the why of everything.

584
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: But fundamentally, that's all we're doing. And so I think

585
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: sometimes taking that preciousness away can just remind um the

586
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: reader like oh yeah, this is actually really doable. And

587
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: then the other thing is so many people, myself absolutely included.

588
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: Even as a recipe um writer, I don't read the

589
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: recipes most of the time, you know, or like not

590
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: before I do it, even though you should, of course,

591
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: like you really should read it all the way through,

592
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: not because like that's the good girl thing to do

593
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, but really because it will just give you

594
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: a greater chance of success, a greater ability to be

595
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 1: organized and feeling control as you're doing the recipe and

596
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: feel calm during it. But I still don't. And so

597
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: it was just a way of acknowledging most of us

598
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: are not going to read it through before we start,

599
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: and so here's a way, um that you can still

600
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: sort of get the purpose of reading it through before

601
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: you start ahead of time, UM, so that you can

602
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: feel good and you don't have to and you don't

603
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: feel again like ashamed like that I as the this

604
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: big cookbook author from on high is judging and going, oh,

605
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 1: I'm so offended you didn't read through my own recipe

606
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 1: and respect my every word and suggestion. It's like, now

607
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: we're all just human, Like I just want you to

608
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: eat well. I want you to feel good about the

609
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: food that you're making at home. I want you to

610
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: know that your taste matters more than mine to you

611
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: as well. That's the other thing that's really important to me,

612
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: le And we are a money podcast, and you know,

613
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: when we're talking about food, one of the big problems

614
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: with when it comes to how much we spend on

615
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: food is throwing food away and so yeah, what what

616
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: should we be tossing items out that are past that

617
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: used by date or how can we get better? I

618
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: guess about using all the food that's on hand, not

619
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: throwing stuff away, not forgetting about the leftovers that are

620
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: in the back of the fridge, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, absolutely,

621
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: I think that is probably if you want to save

622
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: money without making huge changes um to your lifestyle, really

623
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: working on your waste management was probably like one of

624
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: the quickest routes um. And but the ways to do

625
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: that are like, yes, absolutely, you can use a ton

626
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: of things are fine after they're um they're used by date,

627
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: but it does depend on the thing, and so I

628
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: it's almost like I don't know that we can get

629
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: into that necessarily. Yeah. It's like you know, if there's

630
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: like blue gunk on your yogurt, throw it out, um,

631
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: you know. But like there's but there's all kinds of

632
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: things like like especially canned items, things like that. They're

633
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: often absolutely fine for long even I hate to say,

634
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: but like almost years afterwards. Um. And same with there's

635
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. It's like if it isn't ransid,

636
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: if it isn't moldy, like of course, you can use

637
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: it and then when it comes to you know, something

638
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: that I talked about a lot is like with fresh produce. Um.

639
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: That's something that a lot of people struggle with waist

640
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: around because there's a sort of phenomenon where you get excited,

641
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I'm going to cook all this stuff

642
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: this week, and you buy maybe a little more than

643
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 1: it's totally realistic, um, and then you end up with

644
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: like welch spinach and like yucky tomatoes, and then you

645
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: feel bad about it and you actually have a sception

646
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: and uh, my new book Good Enough about sort of

647
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: that like shame cycle of where you're like so embarrassed

648
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: that you have the gross spinach that you ignore it

649
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: for another week, like hoping cycle to avoid. Yeah. Well,

650
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: I mean on that note, I mean I thought you

651
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: you talked well about not only the foods that are

652
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: going to keep well and the foods that probably don't

653
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: do well as leftovers, but you gave some tips as

654
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: well as two ways, like just different things we can

655
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: do to make eating leftovers more successful. Uh do you

656
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: mind sharing some of those? Sure? Absolutely so. And I

657
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: have lots of this in Good and Cheap, which is

658
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: freely available online too, especially for something like a stew

659
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: or a soup, reusing it just in a slightly different way.

660
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: Um often just after you make it, putting it directly

661
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: in the freezer. Really, these are most of my tips

662
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: are they're almost they're boring, but they're just about like,

663
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: just be realistic and try to be consistent with yourself,

664
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: um plan, try to like make realistic meal plans rather

665
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: than these like pine in this guy like I'm gonna

666
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: cook every single you know, three meals a day every

667
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: day this week. It's like, is that really realistic? Especially

668
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: we're in January now, and it's like people have all

669
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: these New York resolutions and they're like, I'm going to

670
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: be the best cook ever ever. It's just such a

671
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: setup and the kind of breaks my heart because it's

672
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: like then if you crash and burn at that, then

673
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: you think like, oh my god, I could never do that.

674
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: It's like, well, actually, if you just had a more

675
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: realistic goal, you probably would be able to be consistent

676
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: about it. And then the other thing is like with

677
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: those wilted like the wilted situation, there's so many recipes

678
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: where you can actually still use those things. You know,

679
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: you maybe don't want to use like wilted spinach in

680
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: a salad if you can use it in like a

681
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: keish or um of course, like soups and stews and saute's.

682
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: Like there's so many places where vegetables don't need to

683
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: be perfectly fresh. Um. Even roasting vegetables um like like

684
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: doing like a tray sort of bake in the oven.

685
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: Those all can be fabulous ways to read it. So

686
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: I think just like really trying to um, stay on

687
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: top of that and and just being again being realistic

688
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: with yourself doesn't mean giving up on yourself. It actually

689
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: is like the better way to really like give yourself

690
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: a chance of success. So saying like I'm gonna make

691
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: three meals this week that have these fresh vegetables and

692
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: I have a plan for them, and then you won't

693
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 1: end up like with these things that that are wasted. Yeah,

694
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: And you mean you gave some very just simple practical

695
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: stuff to you. I mean, like you know, keeping your

696
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: leftovers and clear containers so that you can actually see

697
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: what's inside of them, or keeping all of the you know,

698
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: the food that's that's ready for them. The glassock ones

699
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: are so fabulous, like there and there you can clean

700
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: them so easily. Um, you can. Everything looks nice in them,

701
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: They look appealing. It reminds you that it's there. All

702
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Yeah, absolutely, well, all that like

703
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: by behavioral science, you know where it's like keep your

704
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: chocolate covered pretzels in the jars that you can't see through,

705
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: so that you don't just eat those, and keep the yeah,

706
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: the food that you want to snack on, the carrot

707
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: sticks in in a clear glass jar exactly. Yeah. So

708
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I was kind of asking about that

709
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: because I I feel like I'm, you know, here at

710
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: how the money at least I'm the king of leftovers. Leftovers.

711
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 1: Uh and and that's a style thing, right absolutely, people

712
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: is like a badge of monitor. Yeah, had it on

713
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: my bicep. But yeah, we've got several other questions we

714
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: want to get to including we we want to talk

715
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: to you too about like meal delivery, your thoughts on that,

716
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 1: getting out of ruts as well when it comes to cooking.

717
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: We'll get to all that right after this break. All right,

718
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: we're gonna keep this train rolling. We're talking with Lean

719
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: Brown about making good food on less money. And uh, Lean,

720
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: we we hinted at the beginning of the show where

721
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: I mentioned that all these basically are quick go to

722
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: answer for people who want to save money when it

723
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: comes to cooking their own food. It seems like lean

724
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: approved too, and that was like, up, what's your take

725
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: on the low cost grocery stores? Okay, all right, yeah

726
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,959
Speaker 1: it's great. I mean all the is a great place.

727
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: Not only it's like low cost, but it's also they

728
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: have really good quality basics, which allows you to make

729
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: really great quality food at home. Um okay, so full disclosure.

730
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: I actually was like on an Aldi like board a

731
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: few years ago. They like, I was consulting for something. Um,

732
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: so I am a fan of theirs, and uh, I

733
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: just yeah, I just I think they are doing a

734
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: really good job. I think the way that they cut

735
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: costs is usually like to reduce like packaging and to

736
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: reduce the way that they advertise and things like that.

737
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: So none of those actually affect the quality of food.

738
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: You're still yeah, yeah, And because it's again it's like

739
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: it's your water down milk or anything like that, you

740
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: know exactly, no, not at all all of its cood quality.

741
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: And because it's yeah it's Germans, like they have like

742
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: that good German chocolate and stuff like that, like they

743
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: have good food there, and so yeah, I I absolutely

744
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: think that they're a wonderful place to start shopping and

745
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: in addition to cooking for ourselves, which can be a challenge,

746
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, I can dundrum for many parents, uh that

747
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: that they face our kids who are picky eaters, you know,

748
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of kids are begging for snacks, for

749
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: the fruit roll ups and stuff that their friends have

750
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: in their school lunches. How how do you deal or

751
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: how do you recommend dealing with the best complaints because

752
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: I assume your baby, your toddler isn't necessarily the same,

753
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: of course, you know, that's always the funny thing, right,

754
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: I think, And again I guess I'll go We'll go

755
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: back to uh just normalizing, like it's just yeah, that's

756
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: what kids are like, um, and that's okay. And so

757
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: I think part of it is acceptance, like just sort

758
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 1: of surrendering to when children are young, they are going

759
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: to be what we call picky, which really is like

760
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: again from a historical sort of evolutionary biology perspective, is

761
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: completely appropriate. It's a real thing that they're experiencing their body.

762
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: They have a very strong disgust response to um new

763
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: foods in order for you know, millions of years ago

764
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: or many many many millennia go protecting themselves from eating

765
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: something poisonous um. And so these are like strong biological

766
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: responses that they're having in their body and so on

767
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: that note, Basically, what I always say is kind of

768
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: like don't stress and don't try to fight it too much,

769
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: because like then you can create like all this sort

770
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: of misery around food and fighting that you don't that

771
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: like it's just a losing battle. Um. So part of

772
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: the acceptance and then and yeah, and just knowing that

773
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: like you know, your kids probably gonna cry when you

774
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: say no to the tenth threat of the day, and

775
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: that that is also okay and um, and that for

776
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: kids to want to eat mac and cheese every day

777
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you are a failure. It doesn't mean there's

778
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: anything wrong with them. And it also doesn't mean that

779
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: they're not going to eat a huge and wonderful variety

780
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: of foods when they're older. And it might mean that

781
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: you're making mac and cheese, you know, or that you

782
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: are raising a survivor exactly that Yeah, like I know

783
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: it sounds so silly, But the evolutionary biology piece I

784
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: often do bring in because I think that parents forget

785
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: like when the kid, you know, when you've had that

786
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: like your kid tries something that they liked last week

787
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: and then they get this like just repulsed look on

788
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: their face. They're not faking it. It's like they're really

789
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: having an experience in their body that is hard for

790
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: them to control. Um, it's so it's not personal, but

791
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: that's really hard. You know, it's hard when and especially

792
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: for those of us who you know, preparing food for

793
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: the people love is a way of expressing love, it

794
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: can feel like a rejection when they don't, and especially

795
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: because the other way we try to show love is

796
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: by taking care of each other's body. So when you're

797
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: trying to say be like we're putting peas in the

798
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: mac and cheese and they're like never tossed across room. Um,

799
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: it can hurt. But just know that that's normal and

800
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: that it's not personal, and just that it's a process,

801
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: and that nobody cookbook authors and you know, parenting advice

802
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: columnists and all of us are struggling with the exact

803
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: same thing. All right, I want to know your take

804
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: on meal delivery services. It's one of those things that

805
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: that my wife and I we've tried, and by my

806
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: wife and I mean mostly she's like she's like wanted

807
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: to do it, and we got just like a super

808
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: cheap trial offer, right, and my wife really enjoyed it

809
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: just having all the media ingredients shipped to the door,

810
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: and then it was just incredibly easy to cook a

811
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: meal and to get out of maybe the rut of

812
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: some of the things that were used to cooking. But

813
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: then on the regular basis, it's just it's prohibitively expensive.

814
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: We thought it, but you know, what's your take on those?

815
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: Because she felt great after doing it and the food

816
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: was good too. Yes, So I think it has a

817
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 1: time to place. And I think really what you said

818
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: is my own experience and the experience of you know,

819
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 1: many many people who I've I've talked with. I think

820
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: it can be really nice thing to do for a

821
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: period of time if you are feeling stuck in a

822
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: rut or you're needing to kind of reconnect with cooking

823
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: or reconnect with some new flavors. Um it can be

824
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: a really great thing to try for a little while

825
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: to bring something new into your life. Um, in a

826
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: way that is, you know, not the pressure of like

827
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to create, like like get a new cookbook

828
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: and cook it through it or something like that. It's

829
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: something where it's all delivered to your door and all

830
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's contained someone else is doing

831
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: the decision making. I think all of that is great.

832
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: And yes, some of the trial offers also can be

833
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: really reasonably priced. Um. But yeah, over time, the downsides

834
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: are absolutely most of them. You don't do the same

835
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: thing again, and so sometimes you know, if you're having

836
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: it like five days a week, it can be it's

837
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: just a lot of cooking, which sometimes can put you

838
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: off a little bit, and it's not the same thing

839
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: because you know, much as many of us are like

840
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: I'm not at all a five year old, were also

841
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: kind of five year old and the things we like

842
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: sometimes again right, um, And so you're also talking about

843
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: cost again. One of the best ways to have things

844
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: below cost is to do repeat meals and to have

845
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: sort of your rotation of favorites that you always have

846
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: the ingredients for and that you can always make. Um.

847
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: That is absolutely going to be a great way to

848
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: save money in the long term. Um. So so Yeah, basically,

849
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: I think it's a style thing. I think it's also

850
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: something that's really lovely for parents. It's something I would

851
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: love to give to like parents of a new baby

852
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: w they have one baby, not when you have like

853
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: a four year old too, or a two year old

854
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: as well, but parents of a new baby sort of

855
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: who have a little bit of time and you can

856
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: hold like a newborn and like create some fresh food

857
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: but have it all delivered in this sort of contained way, UM,

858
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: but maybe have time to do like a half hour

859
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: forty five minute UM kind of cook session. I think

860
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: it can be really good. And then, of course the

861
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: other criticism is most of them require tremendous amounts of

862
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: packaging UM, which is wasted not only UM. And then

863
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: there's the single serving nature of it, which again is

864
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: all to the good in order to take UM, your

865
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: sort of the mental energy that you would put into

866
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: this is taken away by making it these lovely single

867
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: serving things. But also it creates like an environmental waste issue,

868
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: which I don't think it's really worth it in the end, unfortunately,

869
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: and there are are places that are working on that,

870
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: but I think even you know, the sort of best

871
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: of the best really eco minded ones are still you know,

872
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: it's still like it's a fridge box shows up at

873
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: your every day at a front step, Like, is there

874
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: a way to do that that isn't bad for the environment?

875
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: So okay, speaking of the environment, meat protein, animal protein specifically,

876
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: is this purely like an American obsession because not only

877
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: is it happening, yeah, just the quantities that we consume

878
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: animal proteins here in the States because obviously it's expensive, right,

879
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: and it's something that we think a lot about when

880
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: it comes to our meals. But you know, you also

881
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: read the work of Mutner and just the amount of

882
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: protein that other cultures eat has shown to to lead

883
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: to even till the longer lives. And so I would

884
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts on the amount of animal

885
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: protein that we can see. Yeah, for sure, I mean

886
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: I would agree with that, Like it's we don't need

887
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: as much as we think we do. It's just a

888
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: myth um And yeah, this sort of it's almost like

889
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: there's this American like I have a right to the

890
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: amount of meat that I want kind of thing. And

891
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: there's also been this cultural obsession for the last you know,

892
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: many decades of trying to make meat cheaper and cheaper

893
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: and cheaper, because there's just like fundamental human right to

894
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: meet and it's like that doesn't actually make sense, and

895
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of this like false market that's been created,

896
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: and it comes at tremendous costs to of course animal welfare,

897
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: environment and actually I think our health as well. And

898
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: it's it's not on only American accept obsession. I think

899
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: it's anywhere where there's affluence in the world, which is

900
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: all over the world, meat consumption, dairy consumption um is

901
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: on the rise, and yeah, I think it's just sensible

902
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: and good for us to bring some reality to that.

903
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: Veganism and stuff is so much on the rise, especially

904
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: amongst um younger, younger people, and I think that's wonderful

905
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: for people to just have different meal patterns and to

906
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,479
Speaker 1: begin to uh just learn to eat in different ways

907
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: and in different ways that sort of our body and

908
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: so that we can all like as a culture begin

909
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: to realize, like you don't have to eat a lot

910
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: of meat in order to be an athlete or something.

911
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: You can be like a really strict careful vegan and

912
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: who's also gluten free and whatever, and like be a

913
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: weightlifter and all these kinds of things. Um to just

914
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: sort of take away some of these essentialist um sorts

915
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: of notions. I think is always good, Like it's all

916
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 1: about us as individuals and what we individually need. And Leeann,

917
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: I gotta say, we love the work that you've been

918
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: putting out there, and we love your mission to help

919
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: people eat better on less money. And the fact that

920
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: you also you put your money where your mouth is

921
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: and you give away that cookbook that you wrote, which

922
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: again will link to in the show notes. But yes,

923
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us working. How do

924
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: money listeners find out more about you, about what you're

925
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: up to and about your brand new cookbook? Awesome? Um, well,

926
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: you can always go to Leanne Brown dot com. Just

927
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: my name l E A and and E Brown just

928
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: like the color my website. And then I'm on Instagram

929
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: is kind of the only social media I do any

930
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: anything regularly on Leanne E Brown there. Yeah, and I'll

931
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: be just trying to get the word out about good enough.

932
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: You can border it now, that would be wonderful. Yeah,

933
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so honored anyone wants to engage with

934
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: my recipes, with my writing. Um, it's an absolute joy

935
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: to be here, and I'm excited to offer anything and

936
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: reach out any time. If anything resonates with you, I'd

937
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: love to hear it. All right, we'll be awaiting that

938
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: Lean Brown TikTok page in your future, right about Leanne.

939
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you

940
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: so it's fun, all right, Matt gotta love that conversation

941
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: with Lean Brown. I feel like she's part food therapist,

942
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: part book author, so true how to money co host.

943
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: I feel like even though she's you know, craft beer

944
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily her thing, I feel like she uh speaks

945
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: about food and approaches it in the same way that

946
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: we approach personal finance. Yes, And I think, well, you know,

947
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, to that shame and guilt

948
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: and how we need to avoid that when it comes

949
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: to our money progress. And it's easy to compare ourselves

950
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: to what other people have been able to accomplish, and

951
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: if we do that, we're sending ourselves up for failure.

952
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: And she's saying the same thing. With food, it's easier

953
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: to see your neighbor and the nice meal they just

954
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: turned out and maybe invited you over for, and you're like,

955
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: why don't I do stuff like that? But that's not

956
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: what you're comparing yourself to. That's unhealthy and you're not

957
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: going to make much progress that way. But what was

958
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: your big takeaway from this conversation with Lean, Well, I

959
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: want to continue to pay you back off of this

960
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: conversation because it does have to do with that shame

961
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: and guilts and what she's what she was really getting at,

962
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: I think with good Enough with this new cookbook is

963
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: that there's a mindset shift that takes place with how

964
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: it is that you cook. It's not necessarily about the

965
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts per se, It's not about you know,

966
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,919
Speaker 1: it is about some of the technique, but she's really

967
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: speaking to the mindset shift that that takes place when

968
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: you can think about cooking uh in a different way.

969
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: And then she was talking about how that can empower

970
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: you to make other positive changes in your life. And

971
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: that is one what we try to do here on

972
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: the show when it comes to our money. Yes, we

973
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: do talk a lot about the nuts and bolts, just

974
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: like yes, she does talk about how the microplane is

975
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: a affordable, great sool to spice up your dishes and

976
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, great whatever, fine cheese you want over that, Carbonara,

977
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: and we do talk about the specific things and laws

978
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: that are changing and the techniques when it comes to

979
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: how it is that you can save and invest your money,

980
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 1: but so much of it has to do with how

981
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: you mentally approach the money that you earn, the money

982
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: that you spend, the money that you save. Because you

983
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: can be doing all the correct things, but if you

984
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: feel guilty about it, or if you feel that you're

985
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: never making enough, those negative attitudes canna have a terrible

986
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: effect on our ability to enjoy our money and to

987
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: do things with it that we want to. So that

988
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: one was a little more esoteric. I guess it wasn't

989
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: that she gave the stamp of approval for all the

990
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: But yet, what was your your big take away? Well, yeah,

991
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: I did appreciate that because we love all the and

992
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: I'm glad she does too. But I think my big

993
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: thing was really starts of the beginning of the conversation

994
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: when she basically said, technique is greater than costly ingredients,

995
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: and I think sometimes we think we need the finest

996
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: stuff in order to cook well. And that was yeah,

997
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: when we were talking about all that, she was saying

998
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: that like the ingredients are great there. It's not like that.

999
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: It's a frugal first is cheap and you're making a

1000
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: trade off and you're getting the cheap stuff at all

1001
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: the and you're like, well, is it worth paying less?

1002
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 1: And those ingredients inferior quality are good enough? Yes they are.

1003
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: They're they're very good ingredients. She's not telling us to

1004
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: go to Whole Foods or whatever, you know, super high

1005
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: and local grocery that you have wherever you live. Just

1006
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: learning a couple of basic techniques trying out. I think

1007
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: starting with some of those you know, low effort meals

1008
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: that she that she describes in this Newest cookebook, are

1009
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: are great ways to kind of get the ball rolling,

1010
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 1: because yeah, you don't have to go get the nicest stuff.

1011
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: Like I was just at Costco the other day, Matt,

1012
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: like I am, and there were I realized Ribby steaks

1013
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: were double the price that they were fifteen months ago,

1014
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: like double for real, And I was like, I'm not

1015
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: eating Ribby like these days. Like it's a it's a

1016
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: very very like once you hear treat typically maybe twice um,

1017
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: but I'm like, well, I'm probably for going Ribbi for

1018
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future until those prices start to come back down.

1019
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: And and that's the kind of thing though, it is.

1020
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: It's like there's ways to cook delicious meals that don't

1021
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: involve twenty dollar pound Rabbi exactly. No, I love it, man,

1022
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: all right, let's go ahead and shift gears. Get back

1023
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode.

1024
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: This was a stout that was barrel aged by our

1025
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: friend Jess uh and he and his friends brew under

1026
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 1: the name Easy Chair Brewing Garage. What were your thoughts

1027
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: on this beer? Alright? So I love that it was

1028
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: a barrel aged town because it had some of that

1029
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: I think he said Woodford Reserve barres. I forget what

1030
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: he said. Maybe was um trace ok alright, so yeah

1031
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: it had it had some of that whiskey note on

1032
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: the finish. But at the same time, it was low

1033
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: a bv. It's like six percent, he told me. And

1034
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: so it's this nice, But usually a barrel aged sounds

1035
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: like mr boozy, because I don't know, does it actually

1036
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: pick up some alcohol, you know, like from the barrel?

1037
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: Maybe a little right, yeah, maybe a little bit. I'm

1038
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: not uh, we're not superversed and I'm not smart enough

1039
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: to know the craft brewing process, yes, but I would

1040
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: say it was delicious because I liked how it had

1041
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: both those things going on. It was it was light

1042
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: enough with a little bit of that like bourbon finish

1043
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: on the beer, and like, what's better than a barrel

1044
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: aged out in January? Honestly, like not much. This was

1045
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: a great example of a homebrew stouts and crafted with

1046
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: care by Jess over there for sure. Yeah, crafted with love,

1047
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: and it was almost brewed like this. This isn't an

1048
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: overly heavy, thick, dark, clunky kind of stout right like it's.

1049
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: It's kind of it's a very chipper, bright on its

1050
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 1: toes type of stouts while still incorporating some of those

1051
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: woody barrel aged notes. That's was a fantastic stout. I'm

1052
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: glad that you and I got to enjoy this one together,

1053
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: And a huge thanks to our friend Jess for donating

1054
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: this one to the show. Yeah, he drove it over,

1055
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 1: dropped it off on the stuff. So yeah, thank you, Jess.

1056
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. I think he said they bottled this

1057
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: one like not even two weeks ago. It's pretty great.

1058
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: So so it's fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh, all right, well, Matt,

1059
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it. For this episode. We'll have links

1060
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: to both of the cookbooks we talked about today with

1061
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: Leanne in our show notes, up on our website at

1062
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. That's all right, Joel, that's

1063
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: gonna be it until next time. Best Friends Out, Best

1064
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: Friends Out,