Speaker 1: On July tenth, nineteen ninety four, a group of armed
Speaker 1: men invaded and robbed a suburban Houston crack operation. Of
Speaker 1: the four occupants of the home, one claimed to have
Speaker 1: hit until the assailants left. One was fatally shot, while
Speaker 1: the other two were injured but managed to escape. One
Speaker 1: of the surviving victims described an assailant, but couldn't make
Speaker 1: an identification for twelve years, at which point he finally
Speaker 1: picked out the photo of Ivory Dorsey, a guy he'd
Speaker 1: known since middle school who definitely didn't fit his description,
Speaker 1: but Ivory was sentenced to twenty years. Anyway, this is
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,
Speaker 1: where we've got a case out of Houston, Texas where
Speaker 1: our guest languished in prison for over a decade after
Speaker 1: the assailant came forward and claimed responsibility, and the record still,
Speaker 1: by the way, is uncorrected. But luckily I guess yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you could say that he's at least out
Speaker 1: on parole and so Ivory, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having us too.
Speaker 1: And with him is a recent Princeton graduate, Kennedy Mattis,
Speaker 1: whose involvement began with the Making Xandery class, an undergraduate
Speaker 1: course that was originally started at Georgetown with our good
Speaker 1: friends Mark Howard and Marty Tankliffe. It's now spread to Princeton,
Speaker 1: while Kennedy is continuing on her own righteous path to
Speaker 1: Harvard Law. Yeah you heard that right, So we hope
Speaker 1: this is the first of many many visits.
Speaker 2: Kennedy, welcome, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Now, Ivery, you grew up in Houston, right, so tell
Speaker 1: us about that.
Speaker 3: My mother, she was a single black woman. My sister
Speaker 3: like was ten years younger than me. No dad, typical
Speaker 3: life going on in the ghetto. She was heavily into
Speaker 3: drugs bro She tried to go to work every day
Speaker 3: and still get high and have parties.
Speaker 2: On the weekend.
Speaker 3: I can remember when I was a kid, my mother
Speaker 3: was on hair run. My mother would leave certain days
Speaker 3: and be gone two three days and I would still
Speaker 3: fix my sister hair up, take her to school that
Speaker 3: I go to school. I'd be late every day for
Speaker 3: first period, and they started asking questions and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and I just lie to them, tell them, yeah, we move.
Speaker 3: I got to catch two buses to school, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Because I didn't want to give my
Speaker 3: mother up because my worst fear was being separated.
Speaker 1: So they hadn't moved. They lived at the Villa Americana
Speaker 1: apartment complex, which was otherwise known as the Bricks, which
Speaker 1: was notorious for poverty, violence and the police misconduct that
Speaker 1: can plague an area like that. So he'd lie for
Speaker 1: his mom to keep them together.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to protect her. But I was a kid.
Speaker 3: All I wanted to do is play baseball at that
Speaker 3: time and do music. I love hip hop, jazz, R
Speaker 3: and B. You know what I'm saying, Blues, zodico. My
Speaker 3: grandmother she used to always play pop and blues and
Speaker 3: different stuff like that, so she was like my first DJ.
Speaker 3: And my grandfather ran a couple of clubs, so you know,
Speaker 3: they always had music banging in there and everything. But
Speaker 3: I was always around people playing records and I loved
Speaker 3: it that growing up.
Speaker 2: That was my go to place.
Speaker 3: Like when I was incarcerated, I drew, I wrote music,
Speaker 3: but that was my go to place to get away
Speaker 3: from the reality. But April the ninth, nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 3: my mother wind up down HIV Man bird. When I
Speaker 3: was like seventeen, I had to do what I had
Speaker 3: to do to survive. I started selling drugs. You know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, take care of me and my sister.
Speaker 3: At this time, I'm like homeless. And if I had
Speaker 3: a little work, like we call drugs back then I
Speaker 3: would be able to proper stair somebody house and do
Speaker 3: a little traffic while I could make me some money.
Speaker 1: Between the his mother's death in the summer of ninety four,
Speaker 1: he had two sons, one with a young woman named
Speaker 1: Tamika Houston, and at that time they were staying at
Speaker 1: the home of Lafonda Henry, which is where they were
Speaker 1: on the night of July tenth, nineteen ninety four, when,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them, across town, a blue car pulled up
Speaker 1: to a suburban home that operated as a drug house.
Speaker 4: So that night at five four to two six here
Speaker 4: in Dell Street, there were four men in the house.
Speaker 4: There was the decedent, mister Charles Monroe. There were Clifford
Speaker 4: Tyler and Willie Williams, who were by the kitchen cutting
Speaker 4: each other's hair, and then there was Alton Brown who
Speaker 4: went by Bud and he was cleaning in a back room.
Speaker 4: Around eleven thirty, one of the neighbors, Cleveland Guite, heard
Speaker 4: the car doors slam, which woke come up, so he
Speaker 4: hooked outside. That's when four to six men break into
Speaker 4: the house. They kicked the door in and they start
Speaker 4: shooting immediately. Clifford Tyler and Willie Williams get hit with
Speaker 4: bullets while they run out the back door, but they
Speaker 4: live and Charles Monroe ends up downing from the gunshots.
Speaker 4: Alton Bud Brown hid in the closet while this was happening.
Speaker 4: His testimony is that he didn't see anything, but he
Speaker 4: heard these men ask Charles Monroe to show them where
Speaker 4: the drugs are. He takes them to the back room.
Speaker 4: Charles Monroe tussles the gun that's held by one of
Speaker 4: the men we later find out is mister Xavier Stevenson.
Speaker 4: While they tussle over the gun is when the gun
Speaker 4: goes off and that's how Charles Monroe is fatally shot.
Speaker 1: And the major blood spatter was in the back room
Speaker 1: of the house. But oddly Charles Monroe's body was found outside,
Speaker 1: which raises questions about Alton Bud Brown.
Speaker 3: If you look at the evidence, blood was all over
Speaker 3: the house and he was outside, so that showed you
Speaker 3: that Charles was trying to get some help. So that
Speaker 3: made me think that this guy was struggling and fighting
Speaker 3: for his life. And Bud, whatever his name is, I
Speaker 3: was wondering why he never Rander aid.
Speaker 4: To Ivory's point, there's still a lot of confusion and
Speaker 4: mystery around the exact incidents that place in Alton Bud Brown.
Speaker 4: He was interviewed the one time, I believe after the incident,
Speaker 4: and he wasn't called to testify at trial.
Speaker 1: He said what he had allegedly just heard and that
Speaker 1: he hadn't seen any of the assailants. And according to
Speaker 1: Xavier Stevenson's Affidavid, the arm group left with a camquarder,
Speaker 1: a police scanner, and a cell phone.
Speaker 3: The next day, a knock came at the door, probably
Speaker 3: around ten some because I never forget because Price's right
Speaker 3: was on and that's when the female friend that I
Speaker 3: was staying with, she answered the door and she was like,
Speaker 3: it's black. I went outside and holler led him whatever,
Speaker 3: and that's when an Xavier Stevens was trying to sell
Speaker 3: me the phone. So I was like, at work, that's
Speaker 3: the first thing I asked, when I should have asked
Speaker 3: where you got it from. I used the phone just
Speaker 3: to call the house to hear the house phone ring.
Speaker 3: I didn't know she was going to pick up the
Speaker 3: phone and work. I say what you want for and
Speaker 3: he was like twenty dollars? So I said where you
Speaker 3: get it from? So he was like, man, don't worry
Speaker 3: about all that, bro, Do you want it or not?
Speaker 3: And when his demeanor change, I was like, nah, I'm good.
Speaker 3: At that time, Comiskey had pulled up and he was
Speaker 3: asking to use the house phone because at that time
Speaker 3: we was hustling and we all had pages. So I
Speaker 3: was like, well, shit, he got a phone. He's trying
Speaker 3: to saill right now.
Speaker 1: Ivory's friend, Comiski Lockett, ended up using the cell phone too,
Speaker 1: and was also later allegedly identified by Clifford Tyler, a
Speaker 1: guy I renewed from middle school, but first Tyler identified
Speaker 1: no one.
Speaker 4: So when he was first interviewed, this was July eleventh,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four, post surgery, so immediately the day after
Speaker 4: his statement was that there were more than one suspect,
Speaker 4: but he only saw one. The one suspect he saw
Speaker 4: was the first man through the door. He thinks the
Speaker 4: first suspect said something similar to give it up prior
Speaker 4: to starting shooting, but the suspects were shooting before they
Speaker 4: had a chance to react. His initial description was a blackmail,
Speaker 4: short and skinny in his thirties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was nineteen years old, he said. The guy
Speaker 3: was short, a dog African male. I was already like six' to,
Speaker 3: one like brown, skin the same COLOR i am. Now
Speaker 3: they tried to make LIKE i was darker back.
Speaker 1: Then it was.
Speaker 2: Crazy now it just ain't, me. Man.
Speaker 3: LIKE a couple of days, later the female friend THAT
Speaker 3: i was staying, with she told me that a police call,
Speaker 3: here AND i say the police for? What you, Know
Speaker 3: i'm a drug, Dealer So i'm, like the hell the
Speaker 3: cops call her? For and she like, homicides something about
Speaker 3: a phone maybe that phone, dead old, boy trying to
Speaker 3: sell your dumb.
Speaker 1: Ass lafonda's home phone, record as well As ivory's, pager
Speaker 1: would prove that he was At lafonda's during the. Crime after,
Speaker 1: all that's how he made a, living right he'd get,
Speaker 1: paiged call back on the home phone and do. Business but,
Speaker 1: nevertheless the police must have been checking the cell phones,
Speaker 1: activity which led them to Call lafonda's home.
Speaker 3: PHONE i called the police station trying to see what
Speaker 3: the hell they was calling my house. For they was,
Speaker 3: like who are? You AND i was, Like Ivory dorser
Speaker 3: he called my house or such An it's like there
Speaker 3: was a murder of. Vegigation were trying to see who
Speaker 3: had the phone in because he tell us. ANYTHING i, say,
Speaker 3: Man i'm not trying to get him. Ned did you
Speaker 3: just say somebody got? Killed i'm trying to protect my.
Speaker 3: People i'm not finna get involved IN. Ned so he was,
Speaker 3: like can you come down to the. STATION i, say
Speaker 3: come down to the. Station you already got my. Address
Speaker 3: you come over here and high limit my whole family
Speaker 3: gonna be him my. Lawyer it was, like you don't
Speaker 3: need no. Lawyer we ain't trying to do all. That
Speaker 3: we just want to talk to you see if you
Speaker 3: know a couple of these guys that type of. Thing
Speaker 3: so he never, came never seen.
Speaker 1: Him and perhaps Since ivory wouldn't risk his and his
Speaker 1: family safety to further their, investigation they kept him in
Speaker 1: mind for a later date because this meant that he
Speaker 1: knew who had the cell phone. Right but he didn't
Speaker 1: hear any more about this investigation until over a year,
Speaker 1: later in which Time Clifford tyler viewed two.
Speaker 4: Lineups august twenty, fifth nineteen ninety, four the lead detective
Speaker 4: shows him a. Lineup that detective points to the guy
Speaker 4: in the second position and ask if he shot at,
Speaker 4: him to which Mister tyler responds that he never really
Speaker 4: got a good look at the. Suspects On august, eleventh
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety, five this is when Mister tyler's brought to
Speaker 4: the police Station Charles monroe's. Mother he was shown another photo.
Speaker 4: Lineup one of the photo lineups the lead, detective he,
Speaker 4: says point out the guy with the gold. Tooth and
Speaker 4: so that's when Mister tyler points To, kamiski Because comiski
Speaker 4: is a man from the neighborhood who had a gold
Speaker 4: tooth at the. Time he, says he's half, shirts Mister
Speaker 4: lockett half shirts not because it happened so, quickly so.
Speaker 1: It appears That, Kamisky lockett And ivory were their preferred.
Speaker 1: Suspects considering the statement that was produced about a week,
Speaker 1: earlier On august, seventh nineteen ninety, five with a woman
Speaker 1: Named Letitia henderson who was in jail facing her own.
Speaker 4: Charges so she said she was staying at a woman's.
Speaker 4: Apartment the woman Is, Squeaky Squeaky's ivory's. Aunt letitia said
Speaker 4: she couldn't provide a, day a, time she couldn't, remember
Speaker 4: but she just remembers being there one, time and she
Speaker 4: Said ivory was there, frequently and she Heard ivory in
Speaker 4: the back room with some other guys saying that he
Speaker 4: had hit a. Lick and she saw a lartch amount
Speaker 4: of money on the. Bed she saw a black, pistol
Speaker 4: and she said that she with another woman that she
Speaker 4: was incarcerated, with determined it had to have Been ivory
Speaker 4: who Killed monroe Because ivory always carried a mask and
Speaker 4: he drove the same blue cars one described by the.
Speaker 2: Neighbors they said that she said That's july to, tenth
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. Four she was At squeaky. House Well squeaky was.
Speaker 3: Incarcerated she wind up getting locked Up december ninety three
Speaker 3: or something like, that writing Hot, chicks and they came
Speaker 3: and Vict us out the. House the constables did and
Speaker 3: they locked that door. Up nobody was in the. House july,
Speaker 3: tenth nineteen ninety.
Speaker 4: Four the police then Interviewed squeaky and that's When squeaky
Speaker 4: said she had never Seen Letitia henderson in her.
Speaker 1: Life, nevertheless they Visited ivory for the first.
Speaker 2: Time the investigators was asking, me do you know this?
Speaker 2: Guy do you know that? Guy i'm like.
Speaker 3: No when they mentioned to The fertiler name we had
Speaker 3: went to middle, school was like and their name. Familiar
Speaker 3: so WHEN i asked around the, neighborhood somebody, say, man that's,
Speaker 3: toughy AND i was, like, Toughy oh, SHIT i Know.
Speaker 2: Toughy he KNOW i ain't coming his.
Speaker 3: House i'm gonna just go high let him and ask
Speaker 3: him to go to the police station with. Me now
Speaker 3: do you THINK i would actually come in his, house
Speaker 3: kill his, friend shoot him and his other, homeboy and
Speaker 3: then come to him and ask him.
Speaker 2: To go to the police.
Speaker 1: Station now that doesn't sound. Likely so even with Seeing
Speaker 1: ivory in the, Flesh tyler wouldn't Corroborate Lutitia henderson's clearly false.
Speaker 1: Statement but, yet the state later claimed That tyler was
Speaker 1: just too scared to come.
Speaker 4: Forward the theory that prosecutors put forth that he was
Speaker 4: scared to come, forward scared to be able to, snitch
Speaker 4: is questionable because he cooperates with the police seven times
Speaker 4: throughout the twelve. Years one of the times was in
Speaker 4: two thousand and. One the police report says that he
Speaker 4: spoke to the lead, detective but we have no summary
Speaker 4: about what was said during that.
Speaker 1: Interview and then in two thousand and, Six Harris county
Speaker 1: began reopening cold cases and they Paid Clifford tyler another
Speaker 1: visit That, april and we're not sure, why but by
Speaker 1: this time it seems he was ready to.
Speaker 4: Cooperate his statement is that he could recall everything from
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four like it happened, yesterday and that's when
Speaker 4: the lead detective made a photo. Spread Mister tyler pointed
Speaker 4: to the individual in the three, position which the police
Speaker 4: report says Is Aaron, brown and that's when Mister tyler
Speaker 4: says he's positive that he was.
Speaker 1: There Aaron brown is the brother of a previous guest
Speaker 1: on this, Show alfred D Wayne, brown who left a
Speaker 1: really powerful impression on. Me by the, way we'll link
Speaker 1: alfred interview in the episode. Description strangely though The browns
Speaker 1: And ivory all grew up in The Villa, Americana so
Speaker 1: maybe there's a pattern of policing in impoverished black. Neighborhoods
Speaker 1: certainly seems that way in this. One but either, way
Speaker 1: That Aaron brown idea was ignored and the police went
Speaker 1: back To Clifford. Tyler that may where he Id'd ivory And,
Speaker 1: camiski both of whom had contact with this drug house
Speaker 1: cell phone Through Xavier.
Speaker 3: Stevenson IF i did something like, This, hill why WOULD
Speaker 3: i even use the phone to call my phone? MAN
Speaker 3: i won't even took no damn cell. Phone xaviers had
Speaker 3: to be crazy to even do something like. That you
Speaker 3: know What i'm saying, now real toll. Man and by that,
Speaker 3: Time Exaviers stevenson wind up catching two murder cases behind
Speaker 3: a ten cent dispute in the, store so he wind
Speaker 3: up going on death.
Speaker 1: Row it seems that the police didn't know About, xavier
Speaker 1: but rather that this cell phone both led To ivory And,
Speaker 1: comiskey but that it also led to phone and pager
Speaker 1: records that would Prove ivory's. Innocence so how do they
Speaker 1: Used tyler's identification and ignore how they got To ivory
Speaker 1: in the first. Place the cell. Phone, well the police
Speaker 1: claimed that a man Named Kelton smith said That ivory
Speaker 1: had confessed to, him leading them back To Clifford, Tyler
Speaker 1: but the last recorded interaction With tyler was that.
Speaker 3: Spring now they said they talked To Kelter smith In? October,
Speaker 3: right how did he you go? Back this is not
Speaker 3: a time. Machine nobody never caught that, though BUT i.
Speaker 3: Did how'd you gonna talk to somebody In october and
Speaker 3: then say you go back from the new evidence that you,
Speaker 3: discovered you go back and go talk to?
Speaker 1: Him and may you can't, obviously but now they had
Speaker 1: a path to an indictment without mentioning the cell.
Speaker 4: Phone the charging instrument was filed On december, nineteenth two
Speaker 4: thousand and. Six it Lists Letitia, Henderson Clifford tyler his,
Speaker 4: lineup and Then Kelton, smith who testified and recanted a
Speaker 4: statement at. Trial but those three and not the, phone
Speaker 4: were sited in the charging instrument Against. Ivory ivery never
Speaker 4: had the opportunity to exercise his right to Question Letitia
Speaker 4: henderson since she was one of his.
Speaker 3: Accusers the case should have been dismissed because that's what
Speaker 3: they act. Like they had from the get.
Speaker 4: Go it wasn't That Letitia henderson was listed as a
Speaker 4: state's witness and didn't show. Up she wasn't even listed
Speaker 4: as a state. Witness.
Speaker 1: Wow so trial began In december two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: without Either letitia or the freaking cell, phone but rather
Speaker 1: the other surviving, Victim Willie.
Speaker 4: Williams and that's when he revealed to the jury that
Speaker 4: he had met with The District attorney at the time
Speaker 4: the night. Before so this was the night After varder
Speaker 4: In ivory's, case and when he arrived at the DA's,
Speaker 4: Office Clifford tyler was there and they had spoken about
Speaker 4: the case and bits and.
Speaker 3: Pieces Willie williams was sitting in there with THE dja
Speaker 3: corroborating their. Statement but the interesting thing about Mister, williams
Speaker 3: like he told the, Truth like this man was not
Speaker 3: one of the mans that came to my house that,
Speaker 3: night but the police he'll be like he tentively ideed,
Speaker 3: him just saying stuff like, that and it was all a.
Speaker 3: Lie the man, SAID i never seen his man. Before he,
Speaker 3: said he's seen a Dark African american male and he's
Speaker 3: seen a Bright African american male that was like high.
Speaker 3: Yellow you know What i'm, Saying i'm neither one of.
Speaker 1: Them So Willie williams was more of a defense, witness
Speaker 1: as Was Calton, smith who they claimed had Heard ivory.
Speaker 3: Confess basically was telling him like, this what you said
Speaker 3: on this Affid? Davis he, said you may HAVE Affi,
Speaker 3: davis BUT i have assigned. Anything so he just told the.
Speaker 3: Truth like me and him never had a conversation about
Speaker 3: me telling him THAT i killed white. Boy he told, me, say,
Speaker 3: MAN i don't even talk like, that Like i'm running
Speaker 3: around the neighborhood of Saying i'll kill somebody or. Something
Speaker 3: he said that they threatened him if he didn't say
Speaker 3: what they wanted him to, say he won't gonna go
Speaker 3: home this.
Speaker 4: Family Kelton smith's testimony was first On december, eleventh so
Speaker 4: that night is when the district attorney at the time
Speaker 4: saw him and threatened. Him and then it's On december
Speaker 4: twelfth that he, SAYS i was. Intimidated they said THAT
Speaker 4: i wouldn't see my daughters IF i changed my testimony
Speaker 4: When i'm supposed to be released In. May and then
Speaker 4: that's when the district attorney was trying to get him
Speaker 4: to go into how much bigger he is than, her
Speaker 4: and how could she possibly be intimidating to? Him and
Speaker 4: that's when he mentioned he, Said i'm not intimidated, physically
Speaker 4: but when you're a part of the system and you
Speaker 4: threatened to prevent me from seeing my, daughters THAN i am.
Speaker 1: Intimidated Kelton smith was the last unintentional defense. Witness but
Speaker 1: it seems Like ivory's attorney didn't prepare or even mount
Speaker 1: a defense of his.
Speaker 3: Own he didn't talk to none of THE da. Witnesses
Speaker 3: he never talked to none of my. Witnesses and he'll
Speaker 3: tell them someone they can, understand even A. Celton he was,
Speaker 3: like did you ever talk to me or?
Speaker 2: Anybody?
Speaker 3: No did anybody promise you your statement for your such?
Speaker 3: Initiinate he was, like, no never seen, him never talked to.
Speaker 4: Anybody ivory's attorney declined to make an opening. Statement there
Speaker 4: were no defense witnesses during the guilt and innocence phase
Speaker 4: of this. Trial there's just questions of Whether ivory really
Speaker 4: had effective assistance of.
Speaker 1: Counsel it certainly seems that. Way i've retold him about
Speaker 1: the phone records and begged him to Subpoena Xavier.
Speaker 3: Stevenson BUT i told my, lawyer, hey, man you need
Speaker 3: to subpoena this, guy like along with my alibi, witnesses
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i could prove THAT i was somewhere. Else so
Speaker 3: my lawyers he always told me the case was, weak
Speaker 3: AND i was trying to build a defense for. Myself
Speaker 3: but he was always, saying.
Speaker 2: Man you're innocent to proven.
Speaker 3: Guilty everybody knows that's a, lie especially when you're a black.
Speaker 2: Man you not innocent to prove, guilty not In Harrison.
Speaker 1: County so all it took Was Clifford, tyler who they
Speaker 1: claimed to overcome a fear of reprisal to Identify ivory
Speaker 1: after twelve, years a fear that they tried to support
Speaker 1: by talking about When ivory had reached out to him
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3: Five he even mentioned this on the stand THAT i
Speaker 3: was at the flea market AND i was by. Myself
Speaker 3: he was with his, cousin he was with his, brother
Speaker 3: he was with his, homeboy AND i was asking you
Speaker 3: to go to the police station with. Me that's why
Speaker 3: my lawyer was, like, well it seemed like he was
Speaker 3: trying to clear his, name and he, said what did you?
Speaker 3: Say he, SAID i didn't want to see. HIM i
Speaker 3: didn't want to talk to. HIM i just want to
Speaker 3: sat in the. Car, now that's a. Lie we didn't
Speaker 3: have no beef with each. OTHER i never knew that
Speaker 3: he was a person that didn't like. ME i never
Speaker 3: knew that he Would god understand and do something like
Speaker 3: this to.
Speaker 1: Me and it's not like he hadn't cooperated with police
Speaker 1: seven times over twelve. Years and something telling happened when
Speaker 1: the assistant District, Attorney Rachel, ponk asked him about the identification.
Speaker 3: Process she, said did you tell anybody from law enforcement
Speaker 3: that it Was Ivory dorsey who done this before they
Speaker 3: showed you the picture of?
Speaker 2: Him or after they showed him the? Picture and he said,
Speaker 2: after IF.
Speaker 3: I had to show you a picture of someone before
Speaker 3: you said was, them that's not your coming.
Speaker 2: Forward you never.
Speaker 1: Knew who it, was especially when he'd Known ivory for many.
Speaker 1: Years and it appears that this pattern.
Speaker 3: Continued he would say one minute that they, like what
Speaker 3: did you see when the door? Open he'll say chrome
Speaker 3: gun or something like, that and then she'll switch it
Speaker 3: up and, then, oh, NA i saw a pump shotgun
Speaker 3: to make LIKE i got the murder weapon and then
Speaker 3: he said something about LIKE i was the shortest, guy
Speaker 3: AND i was, LIKE i was six. Ones that's against
Speaker 3: what the witness, said you, know like he was freestyling
Speaker 3: and they was misleading him the whole.
Speaker 1: Time but despite the issues with his, testimony it appears
Speaker 1: to have Scared ivory's trial attorney into scrambling a last
Speaker 1: minute alibi witness with the help Of ivory's friend and,
Speaker 1: mentor Mister.
Speaker 3: Perkins now he's, REALIZING I i guess that Am i'm
Speaker 3: gonna send this man to prison for something he didn't.
Speaker 3: Do and he's, like do you think, that Mister, perkinson.
Speaker 2: Go get your son.
Speaker 3: Mother SO i had talked to my son mother night
Speaker 3: before and he went over there and nobody answered the,
Speaker 3: door and he was, like, man the light was, ON
Speaker 3: i heard THE tv playing the.
Speaker 2: Number nobody came to the. Door so it's like.
Speaker 3: WOW a couple years, LATER i didn't find out that
Speaker 3: she was pregnant by another guy and she had a
Speaker 3: baby that same day THAT i was going to.
Speaker 2: Try that's why she wasn't.
Speaker 1: There AND i.
Speaker 4: Think the trial attorney realized after there was a guilty verdict.
Speaker 4: Rendered and it's during the defense's closing remarks when the
Speaker 4: trial attorney, admits and this is, verbatim the attorney, says
Speaker 4: how easy it is to convict a young black. Man
Speaker 4: it's just. Easy this is. Obscene this is obscene what you.
Speaker 4: Did and it's Not ivory. Door she's. Fault it's. MINE
Speaker 4: i had ten strikes and OBVIOUSLY i didn't use them
Speaker 4: appropriately or properly in this. Case.
Speaker 3: Man at that, Moment i'm talking to guard in my
Speaker 3: head And i'm, LIKE i didn't even do. This is
Speaker 3: it's somebody that you want me to. Meet DO i
Speaker 3: supposed to go to the. Penitentiary it's something that you
Speaker 3: want me to, do Because i'll. Go but you KNOW
Speaker 3: i didn't do. This i'm innocent of. This AND i
Speaker 3: heard this Scripture joshua one through. Nine he was, saying
Speaker 3: don't be. Afraid i'll go with you. Wherever you know
Speaker 3: What i'm, saying be strong and be very. Courageous i'm
Speaker 3: gonna be with you wherever you.
Speaker 2: Go that's WHAT i.
Speaker 3: Heard and WHEN i got in the shower that, night
Speaker 3: BUT i cried like twenty years for something THAT i didn't.
Speaker 3: DO i didn't understand why all this was happening to.
Speaker 3: Me you, know losing my mother at a young, age
Speaker 3: trying to take care of my, sister trying to do
Speaker 3: things like why did this guy get up there and
Speaker 3: lie on? Me DID i hurt this guy in some
Speaker 3: kind of way?
Speaker 2: Intentionally?
Speaker 3: UNKNOWINGLY i didn't know What i'm, saying and seeing him do,
Speaker 3: that LIKE i, THOUGHT i was something THAT i wasn't
Speaker 3: WHEN i first got locked up for this, BRO i
Speaker 3: ain't gonna.
Speaker 2: LIE i w wasn't strong like. This NOW i wanted
Speaker 2: to commit.
Speaker 3: SUICIDE i felt LIKE i had let my kids. DOWN
Speaker 3: i had promised my kids THAT i would always be
Speaker 3: there for them BECAUSE i didn't have a, daddy you
Speaker 3: know What i'm. Saying AND i promised them, like, man
Speaker 3: if anything happened to, ME i want y'all always to
Speaker 3: take care of each other and be with each. Other they,
Speaker 3: separated we all. SEPARATED i wouldn't seeing them and stuff like.
Speaker 3: That and that's when time started really getting to. ME
Speaker 3: i wouldn't seeing my, people AND i love hard, MAN
Speaker 3: i love my, people you know What i'm. Saying reality kicked.
Speaker 3: IN i had to get on my, knees could just be,
Speaker 3: grateful just. SURVIVE i started drawing, them you, know and
Speaker 3: the music and stuff like. That that became my cell.
Speaker 3: THERAPY i had to rely on the, real livey. DOORS
Speaker 3: i had to go back to being myself WHEN i
Speaker 3: was a kid AND i used to draw those, pictures
Speaker 3: and that stuff started coming back to. Me, Man that's
Speaker 3: what helped me get through this. TIME i started cutting
Speaker 3: hair and just vibing with different. People now was showing
Speaker 3: me how to go to the law, library how to do,
Speaker 3: research how to work on the. Lot and that's When
Speaker 3: god started introducing me to people, inside like a guy
Speaker 3: Named Danny.
Speaker 1: Anderson in addition to guys Like, Danny ivory wrote to
Speaker 1: many attorneys and innocence organizations and received support from The
Speaker 1: Texas Innocence, project who reached out To Xavier.
Speaker 3: Stevenson and before, THAT i had a dream That Exavier
Speaker 3: stevenson he had came on the same UNIT i was.
Speaker 3: On he's, like what are you doing? Here AND i,
Speaker 3: say may you know that cell phone you tried to sell?
Speaker 3: Me and he, said don't worry about. IT i got
Speaker 3: you AND i woke up in a cold. Switch that's
Speaker 3: WHEN i got The Alpha davis from.
Speaker 1: Him by this, Time xavier's defense team was able to
Speaker 1: get his death sentence thrown out he.
Speaker 4: Had an intellectual. Disability he was charged with murdering two
Speaker 4: people over ten cents in a convenience. Store so the
Speaker 4: courts ruled that it would be violating his right that
Speaker 4: prevents against cron unusual punishment if he was put to,
Speaker 4: death and so his sentence was commuted to. Life he
Speaker 4: is pro eligible in twenty forty.
Speaker 1: And in direct conflict with that, Objective xavier wrote an
Speaker 1: affidavit Supporting ivory.
Speaker 3: Edis when he found out THAT i was incarcerated for
Speaker 3: something that he had, done he does The. AFFIDAVID i
Speaker 3: Think september twenty. TWELVE i get the Affid. David Immediately i'm, like,
Speaker 3: Wow i'm finna ask for evidentier HERE i KNEW i
Speaker 3: was finna go.
Speaker 2: Home you know What i'm. Saying it's twenty.
Speaker 3: Twelve we talked about twelve years, ago thirteen years, ago
Speaker 3: AND i was talking to this guy Named Larry. Brown
Speaker 3: because Now i'm on a different unit From, DANNY i
Speaker 3: reach out To danny and we found out That danny's
Speaker 3: Did i'm, like, Wow so REMEMBER i just got a
Speaker 3: whole rit done By Danny anderson twenty seven grounds that
Speaker 3: he found in the. Case that's how bad it. Was
Speaker 3: And larry was, like how you gonna do. That you're
Speaker 3: gonna do? ACT i, say Because i'm actually. Innocent and
Speaker 3: it was, Like, okay you can do, that but you
Speaker 3: can't file all the.
Speaker 1: Grounds his Friend Larry brown advised him to will down
Speaker 1: the filing to his eight strongest constitutional claims to pair
Speaker 1: with his actual innocence claim and newly discovered.
Speaker 3: EVIDENCE i filed it in twenty. Fifteen when you file something,
Speaker 3: good they gonna delay. You when you file something, bad
Speaker 3: they gonna deny.
Speaker 2: You. Man they got so many ways to just tell you,
Speaker 2: KNOW i wrote the judge this, LEFT i asked.
Speaker 3: THEM i, said up from the bottom of my, Heart,
Speaker 3: MAN i put everything on my mother's, GRAVE i, said.
Speaker 2: MAN i told the.
Speaker 3: JUDGE i, say, man, LOOK i don't even care about
Speaker 3: no money or none of.
Speaker 2: That you know What i'm. Saying it was this out For.
Speaker 2: Davis please just let me go.
Speaker 3: Home SO i could save my son from coming to
Speaker 3: the penitential of getting killed on the streets Of. HOUSTON
Speaker 3: i just want to go home SO i can finish
Speaker 3: raising my. Kids but they held that.
Speaker 1: Rid deny or. Delay this went on until another friend
Speaker 1: Named Steve morgan helped him get the evidentiary hearing that
Speaker 1: he deserved A navy.
Speaker 3: Seal he the one got me, back do the. Evidence you're.
Speaker 3: Here they bench warmed me. Back they reset me like
Speaker 3: twenty two. TIMES i wind up staying in the county
Speaker 3: twenty two. Months they resetted me every, month and they
Speaker 3: USED covid for an excuse like they always do to.
Speaker 3: DELAY i finally got my day in. COURT i just
Speaker 3: KNEW i was finna go. Home Exavier stevenson got up
Speaker 3: there and exonerated, me really told the truth about.
Speaker 4: Everything Mister stevenson went through very specific details of the
Speaker 4: crime that you could not have known about if you weren't.
Speaker 4: There he recalled that there were three cars in the,
Speaker 4: driveway that there were nice rims in the, house and
Speaker 4: this matches the police. Report he identified that there were
Speaker 4: men in the kitchen clipping each other's. Hair he recalled
Speaker 4: a pool table right in the front. Room he just
Speaker 4: recalled things very.
Speaker 3: Accurately they tried to cross him up and make like
Speaker 3: he was lying and like he was doing me a.
Speaker 2: Favor how you doing me a, favor Mister.
Speaker 4: Stevenson he also filed a habeas write at the time
Speaker 4: of the evident your, hearing he hadn't heard. Back he's
Speaker 4: still eligible for. Parole he comes up For pearl and twenty.
Speaker 4: Forty he had, children so if, anything he jeopardized himself
Speaker 4: by coming.
Speaker 2: Forward it was very. Emotional he broke down. Crying it
Speaker 2: made me start crying BECAUSE.
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe that it was steal people on Planet
Speaker 3: earth that would tell the truth about something that they.
Speaker 3: Did AND i mirre that a man would stand up
Speaker 3: and take responsibility for his own. DESTINY i wouldn't let
Speaker 3: no nobody go down for.
Speaker 1: Me.
Speaker 3: Man If i've done, SOMETHING i tell y'all done. It
Speaker 3: AND i was, wondering, like why is the family not?
Speaker 3: Here why the victim family not? Here like they should
Speaker 3: have been there to hear. That his mother should have
Speaker 3: been there to hear. That you know What i'm, saying
Speaker 3: to get some type of, closure real. Talk, well the youngest,
Speaker 3: son he feels like since his mother had passed AND
Speaker 3: i had been, gone he had told me THAT i
Speaker 3: really needs you out. Here when you think you're gonna get,
Speaker 3: OUT i thought you was gonna win you a. Pill
Speaker 3: AND i was trying to explain to him THAT i
Speaker 3: am gonna win my, pill just speaking by. Faith just
Speaker 3: bad with, Me, man just hold, On i'm. TRYING i
Speaker 3: told him like. THIS i, Say, Man i'm in the
Speaker 3: middle of a war AND i don't have no. GUN
Speaker 3: i don't have no. Bullets i'm over here making bullets
Speaker 3: and make an assault rifles to fight these. People BECAUSE
Speaker 3: i don't have the. AMMUNITION i have to get in
Speaker 3: these books AND i have to learn this and ask
Speaker 3: questions BECAUSE i don't. Notice this is not my. Language
Speaker 3: see you could thank you got so much game until
Speaker 3: you go on in front of them.
Speaker 2: Votes, well they've still been holding. It you know What i'm.
Speaker 2: Saying they've just been delaying it, like never heard nothing back.
Speaker 1: From it's really unbelievable when the actual assailment comes forward
Speaker 1: and their response is just that they just want to
Speaker 1: bury their heads in the. Sand but luckily are good
Speaker 1: friends At, Georgiatown Mark howard and the one and Only Marty. Tankliffe,
Speaker 1: well they're branching out to other college, campuses And princeton
Speaker 1: agreed to offer their making an ex. Recourse in the
Speaker 1: spring semester Of kennedy's senior year in.
Speaker 4: High, SCHOOL i interned at The Ohio Innocence project and
Speaker 4: was really blown away WHEN i met some of the
Speaker 4: exoneries who talked about how they had been screwed by
Speaker 4: the legal, system AND i spent all of colleges trying
Speaker 4: to learn more about, it which is during the spring
Speaker 4: semester of my senior years when this class was. Offered
Speaker 4: it was a no. Brainer we were given four cases
Speaker 4: to read, through And ivory stuck out immediately because the
Speaker 4: case summary described that someone had come forward and, confessed
Speaker 4: But ivory was still in, prison which not knowing anything
Speaker 4: else about his. Case that's mind. Blowing and so with
Speaker 4: one of our, professors we'd have calls and we'd go
Speaker 4: over exactly what we were doing for the. Investigation we
Speaker 4: all would, workshop so these would happen. Weekly we'd Update
Speaker 4: ivory on who we spoke, to what we found through
Speaker 4: going through the police, reports the trial, transcripts Which ivory
Speaker 4: had not received at that. Point we were the first
Speaker 4: people to Send ivory his files because he couldn't access.
Speaker 4: Them So ivory was seeing this material for the first,
Speaker 4: time and so we were all going through like, seeing
Speaker 4: oh my, gosh on page like twenty, six line, seven
Speaker 4: look at, this like look at what this person. Said
Speaker 4: we had Visited houston. Twice both trips were interviewing. Witnesses
Speaker 4: it was also Meeting ivory's family in, person because we
Speaker 4: wanted to get to know the people who were imported
Speaker 4: In ivory's life and help them connect with. Them it
Speaker 4: was really just everything we worked on his, case but
Speaker 4: it was more so making sure that he was fully set.
Speaker 4: Up he was connected to people he hadn't been connected within, years.
Speaker 1: And like so many of us in this, movement once
Speaker 1: you see, it you just can't turn.
Speaker 3: Away ken and them they did a little bit more
Speaker 3: than what they told, You like they was sending us, books,
Speaker 3: money making SURE i had something to. Eat they did
Speaker 3: more than what they had. To they could have just
Speaker 3: did just for a grade and moved, on but, no
Speaker 3: they got. Involved they got in the foxhole with. Me
Speaker 3: they became family man real.
Speaker 4: Toe In may of twenty twenty three is WHEN i
Speaker 4: graduated AND i started working, immediately and So ivory AND
Speaker 4: i adjusted our call. Schedules we still worked on his
Speaker 4: case and we shifted to, parole and so that was
Speaker 4: WHEN i was working with two other, Students ben And,
Speaker 4: carry and we all kind of worked on. It ivory
Speaker 4: had all of his educational, Certificates we got over eleven
Speaker 4: eleven to twelve letters of rec tracked down his childhood
Speaker 4: pastor to write a letter of. Recommendation he got a
Speaker 4: hold of his disciplinary record which had four non violent,
Speaker 4: infractions with the latest infraction being like twenty, twelve and
Speaker 4: it was like you were late to class because your
Speaker 4: door was barricaded from. Something Just we put together a
Speaker 4: pearl packet that ended up being one hundred and nine,
Speaker 4: pages And ivory had an attorney from an innocence clinic
Speaker 4: out Of Texas southern who stepped in to Represent ivory
Speaker 4: during his parole. Hearing so that takes us Through december
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty. Three ivery. One did you get the
Speaker 4: official letter that you were a proof of? Parole?
Speaker 2: Wow seven less.
Speaker 3: Light.
Speaker 4: YEAH i just remember refreshing the page that morning seeing
Speaker 4: that you were, approved and THEN i Messaged ivory On
Speaker 4: securists AND i said call me in all, caps which
Speaker 4: is WHEN i was able to tell you that you
Speaker 4: were approved for.
Speaker 2: Parole, yeah AND i broke.
Speaker 4: Down, yeah, yeah we both.
Speaker 3: Did i've never been on parole because this is like
Speaker 3: my first time really being IN, tdc So i'm asking
Speaker 3: all the, inmates, like, hey what's this? All you got
Speaker 3: to go to a rehabilitation. Thing so WHEN i got
Speaker 3: to the, program my son was. There this is the
Speaker 3: twelve year old that was at the house with me
Speaker 3: that day WHEN i got. Arrested my ten and twelve year,
Speaker 3: old but this was my oldest, son my, junior AND
Speaker 3: i haven't seen him in eighteen. Years so WHEN i
Speaker 3: get to the, UNIT i got a chance to hugg. Him,
Speaker 3: man we sat there and talked for a, while and we,
Speaker 3: vibe you know What i'm, saying just chopping it up
Speaker 3: and everything by his, brother by his. Situation HOW i
Speaker 3: wanted to see him on the outside so we could
Speaker 3: sit down and have. DINNER i want to restore our
Speaker 3: relationship with my kids and get everything going back.
Speaker 2: Together just seeing my. Son and then it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Because the drugs inside the system with the kids and,
Speaker 3: stuff and now you know What i'm, saying that my
Speaker 3: child eventually was doing this and it hurted, me AND
Speaker 3: i was trying not to get into it with him
Speaker 3: because it's at this time when you have to be a.
Speaker 3: Father but Then i've been gone for eighteen, years so
Speaker 3: AND i try to tell him, something it's like we
Speaker 3: would bump heads with each.
Speaker 2: Other BUT i was. HURT i had missed.
Speaker 3: HIM i missed on trying to discipline, him AND i
Speaker 3: couldn't tell him.
Speaker 2: Nothing and he's back in cars of.
Speaker 3: Raided he got out like about four months before me
Speaker 3: and went back to the. County AND i wind up
Speaker 3: getting Out february.
Speaker 4: The, fifth and he went back. In was it the
Speaker 4: day that you got out or was it was a
Speaker 4: few days, Before.
Speaker 2: Yeah violating his parole of.
Speaker 3: Curfew AND i never got a chance to chop it
Speaker 3: up with, him you know What i'm.
Speaker 2: Saying in the free.
Speaker 3: World AND i talked to him on the phone and
Speaker 3: stuff like, that but, MAN i just don't get. IT
Speaker 3: i love, him, Man and every TIME i call, Him i'm,
Speaker 3: like just take care of. YOURSELF i just want to
Speaker 3: see you out there and take care of my, grandbaby
Speaker 3: which is his. Daughter she played, basketball she run. Track
Speaker 3: smart little, girl need her. DAD i can't even go
Speaker 3: to a game and see her play BECAUSE i can't
Speaker 3: go To Harris. COUNTY i can't go see none of
Speaker 3: my family In Harris. County you know What i'm. SAYING i, said,
Speaker 3: WELL i just got to be. Grateful at LEAST i
Speaker 3: Know i'm.
Speaker 1: Gome we wish you nothing but the best on your
Speaker 1: continued struggle to clear your. Name and as we're all
Speaker 1: aware both that legal battle and even just, surviving nothing
Speaker 1: comes for. Free And ivory is, working but he needs
Speaker 1: more support than he can. Muster so we're going to
Speaker 1: be linking his GoFundMe in the episode, description and we'll
Speaker 1: follow his social. Media we're going to put in the
Speaker 1: episode description so we can follow his progress and who,
Speaker 1: knows maybe even get to hear some great.
Speaker 3: MUSIC i want to release this song That i'm working.
Speaker 3: On it's called it Was All just A. Dream i'm
Speaker 3: coming from my. Mother he had it to my. FATHER
Speaker 3: i want to release that For mama and all the
Speaker 3: mothers in the, world grandmother's baby, mothers BECAUSE i lost
Speaker 3: my son mother WHILE i was going. Too SO i
Speaker 3: just want to dedicate this to the women man who have.
Speaker 4: Children and then if social media is at Bring ivory.
Speaker 1: Home so please scroll down and Support. Ivory and with,
Speaker 1: that we're going to go to closing, arguments where first of,
Speaker 1: ALL i want to thank each of you from the
Speaker 1: bottom of my heart for being here closing. Arguments i'm
Speaker 1: going to turn my microphone off and just kick back
Speaker 1: in my chair and listen to anything else each of
Speaker 1: you want to. Share, kennedy you started, off and then
Speaker 1: when you're, done just hand the microphone off To ivory
Speaker 1: and he'll take us off into the.
Speaker 4: Sunset thank you so much for having us in giving
Speaker 4: us the opportunity to share ivory story with the. World
Speaker 4: it's as infuriating as it. Sounds there are as many
Speaker 4: questions as you think there. Are we're still finding new
Speaker 4: stuff every, day and while we've had the, OPPORTUNITY i
Speaker 4: think to talk about the hallmarks of wrongful conviction that
Speaker 4: are In ivory's, case the inconsistent eyewitness, testimony the ineffective
Speaker 4: assistance of, counsel official misconduct throughout the trial and during
Speaker 4: the appellate. Phase there were also a lot of smaller
Speaker 4: injustices throughout the way That ivory had to deal, with
Speaker 4: one of which being staying connected with. Family it's really
Speaker 4: expensive and when you rely on those family and friends
Speaker 4: to support you mentally and spiritually as well as to
Speaker 4: help you fight for your, innocence it's really. Hard so
Speaker 4: that was one just the challenges with. Parole ivory found
Speaker 4: out that he was not being released until year after
Speaker 4: he was given, parole and it was in the fall
Speaker 4: that he was told he couldn't step foot In Harris,
Speaker 4: county which is where his entire parole packet laid out
Speaker 4: his reentry. Plan so just the challenges of parole as another.
Speaker 4: Injustice he's. Faced the. Heat there's no ac Inside texas,
Speaker 4: prisons And ivory can speak to how hot it was
Speaker 4: throughout the. Summer that's why we were rushing to get
Speaker 4: him released when we found out that he was approved In,
Speaker 4: january so that he wouldn't have to spend another summer
Speaker 4: inside Of texas. Prisons and the last Thing ivory worked
Speaker 4: all throughout his, incarceration but he wasn't paid a. Cent
Speaker 4: and so these are some of the injustices that he
Speaker 4: also had to deal with that weren't part of his
Speaker 4: fighting for his innocence per, se but just details to
Speaker 4: keep in mind as there are other people fighting for their.
Speaker 3: Innocence this injustice in this, world, man it's like a.
Speaker 3: Disease it's not going to own my door, now but
Speaker 3: tomorrow can be knocking on. Yodo there's no respective. PERSON
Speaker 3: i don't care who he. Is it doesn't matter if
Speaker 3: you black or. WHITE i got friends inside that's black and.
Speaker 3: White That's meskins that's going through the same. Thing AND
Speaker 3: i don't want to forget those, guys you know What i'm.
Speaker 3: Saying AND i think this happened to me BECAUSE i
Speaker 3: judged a. Man i'll never forget. IT i was sitting
Speaker 3: on the couch Youre. No six AND i seen this
Speaker 3: man on the news and they said he had raped these.
Speaker 3: KIDS i don't even know this, man BUT.
Speaker 2: I judged this.
Speaker 3: Man god showed me that same man coming out in
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine where he was exonerated BY, dna
Speaker 3: and this TIME.
Speaker 2: I was in.
Speaker 3: Jail it made me look at life. Different, Man like
Speaker 3: if you don't know, something shut your damn.
Speaker 2: Mouth people don't. Understand it ain't gotta be, You it
Speaker 2: can be your.
Speaker 3: Kids Maybe god allowed me to go through this to
Speaker 3: help somebody else out that's gonna go through this because
Speaker 3: he told Me i'm bringing you out of your. Valley
Speaker 3: but the other people that's gonna have to go through.
Speaker 3: This this injustice is. Everywhere people keep ignoring it like
Speaker 3: it doesn't, matter but we need to do something different for.
Speaker 2: Real it's like. Cancer, man.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to wrongful. Conviction you can listen
Speaker 1: to this and all The lava For good podcasts one
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing To lava For
Speaker 1: Good plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production,
Speaker 1: Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my
Speaker 1: fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Cleiber
Speaker 1: the music in this production was supplied by three TIME
Speaker 1: oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
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Speaker 1: At It's Jason. Flamm Wrongful conviction is a production Of
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Speaker 2: One we have worked hard to ensure that all facts
Speaker 2: reported in this show are.
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Speaker 1: in this show are their own and do not necessarily
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