1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: On July tenth, nineteen ninety four, a group of armed

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: men invaded and robbed a suburban Houston crack operation. Of

3
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: the four occupants of the home, one claimed to have

4
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 1: hit until the assailants left. One was fatally shot, while

5
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,440
Speaker 1: the other two were injured but managed to escape. One

6
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: of the surviving victims described an assailant, but couldn't make

7
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: an identification for twelve years, at which point he finally

8
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,280
Speaker 1: picked out the photo of Ivory Dorsey, a guy he'd

9
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: known since middle school who definitely didn't fit his description,

10
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: but Ivory was sentenced to twenty years. Anyway, this is

11
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

12
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

13
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

14
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,

15
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 1: where we've got a case out of Houston, Texas where

16
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 1: our guest languished in prison for over a decade after

17
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: the assailant came forward and claimed responsibility, and the record still,

18
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 1: by the way, is uncorrected. But luckily I guess yeah,

19
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,399
Speaker 1: I mean, you could say that he's at least out

20
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: on parole and so Ivory, thanks for joining us today.

21
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 2: Thank you for having us too.

22
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,399
Speaker 1: And with him is a recent Princeton graduate, Kennedy Mattis,

23
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 1: whose involvement began with the Making Xandery class, an undergraduate

24
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: course that was originally started at Georgetown with our good

25
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: friends Mark Howard and Marty Tankliffe. It's now spread to Princeton,

26
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 1: while Kennedy is continuing on her own righteous path to

27
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: Harvard Law. Yeah you heard that right, So we hope

28
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: this is the first of many many visits.

29
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 2: Kennedy, welcome, Thank you so much.

30
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 1: Now, Ivery, you grew up in Houston, right, so tell

31
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:10,399
Speaker 1: us about that.

32
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 3: My mother, she was a single black woman. My sister

33
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 3: like was ten years younger than me. No dad, typical

34
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 3: life going on in the ghetto. She was heavily into

35
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 3: drugs bro She tried to go to work every day

36
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,640
Speaker 3: and still get high and have parties.

37
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:23,919
Speaker 2: On the weekend.

38
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 3: I can remember when I was a kid, my mother

39
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 3: was on hair run. My mother would leave certain days

40
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 3: and be gone two three days and I would still

41
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 3: fix my sister hair up, take her to school that

42
00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 3: I go to school. I'd be late every day for

43
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 3: first period, and they started asking questions and stuff like that,

44
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 3: and I just lie to them, tell them, yeah, we move.

45
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 3: I got to catch two buses to school, you know

46
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Because I didn't want to give my

47
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,359
Speaker 3: mother up because my worst fear was being separated.

48
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: So they hadn't moved. They lived at the Villa Americana

49
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 1: apartment complex, which was otherwise known as the Bricks, which

50
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: was notorious for poverty, violence and the police misconduct that

51
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,400
Speaker 1: can plague an area like that. So he'd lie for

52
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 1: his mom to keep them together.

53
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,119
Speaker 2: I just wanted to protect her. But I was a kid.

54
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 3: All I wanted to do is play baseball at that

55
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 3: time and do music. I love hip hop, jazz, R

56
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 3: and B. You know what I'm saying, Blues, zodico. My

57
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 3: grandmother she used to always play pop and blues and

58
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 3: different stuff like that, so she was like my first DJ.

59
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 3: And my grandfather ran a couple of clubs, so you know,

60
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 3: they always had music banging in there and everything. But

61
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 3: I was always around people playing records and I loved

62
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 3: it that growing up.

63
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,960
Speaker 2: That was my go to place.

64
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,239
Speaker 3: Like when I was incarcerated, I drew, I wrote music,

65
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 3: but that was my go to place to get away

66
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,119
Speaker 3: from the reality. But April the ninth, nineteen ninety three,

67
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 3: my mother wind up down HIV Man bird. When I

68
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 3: was like seventeen, I had to do what I had

69
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 3: to do to survive. I started selling drugs. You know

70
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, take care of me and my sister.

71
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 3: At this time, I'm like homeless. And if I had

72
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 3: a little work, like we call drugs back then I

73
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 3: would be able to proper stair somebody house and do

74
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 3: a little traffic while I could make me some money.

75
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 1: Between the his mother's death in the summer of ninety four,

76
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: he had two sons, one with a young woman named

77
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 1: Tamika Houston, and at that time they were staying at

78
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 1: the home of Lafonda Henry, which is where they were

79
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 1: on the night of July tenth, nineteen ninety four, when,

80
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them, across town, a blue car pulled up

81
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,119
Speaker 1: to a suburban home that operated as a drug house.

82
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 4: So that night at five four to two six here

83
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 4: in Dell Street, there were four men in the house.

84
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 4: There was the decedent, mister Charles Monroe. There were Clifford

85
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 4: Tyler and Willie Williams, who were by the kitchen cutting

86
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 4: each other's hair, and then there was Alton Brown who

87
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,679
Speaker 4: went by Bud and he was cleaning in a back room.

88
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,720
Speaker 4: Around eleven thirty, one of the neighbors, Cleveland Guite, heard

89
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 4: the car doors slam, which woke come up, so he

90
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 4: hooked outside. That's when four to six men break into

91
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 4: the house. They kicked the door in and they start

92
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,479
Speaker 4: shooting immediately. Clifford Tyler and Willie Williams get hit with

93
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,280
Speaker 4: bullets while they run out the back door, but they

94
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 4: live and Charles Monroe ends up downing from the gunshots.

95
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 4: Alton Bud Brown hid in the closet while this was happening.

96
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 4: His testimony is that he didn't see anything, but he

97
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,800
Speaker 4: heard these men ask Charles Monroe to show them where

98
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 4: the drugs are. He takes them to the back room.

99
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 4: Charles Monroe tussles the gun that's held by one of

100
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 4: the men we later find out is mister Xavier Stevenson.

101
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 4: While they tussle over the gun is when the gun

102
00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 4: goes off and that's how Charles Monroe is fatally shot.

103
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,719
Speaker 1: And the major blood spatter was in the back room

104
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 1: of the house. But oddly Charles Monroe's body was found outside,

105
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 1: which raises questions about Alton Bud Brown.

106
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,120
Speaker 3: If you look at the evidence, blood was all over

107
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,360
Speaker 3: the house and he was outside, so that showed you

108
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 3: that Charles was trying to get some help. So that

109
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 3: made me think that this guy was struggling and fighting

110
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 3: for his life. And Bud, whatever his name is, I

111
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 3: was wondering why he never Rander aid.

112
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 4: To Ivory's point, there's still a lot of confusion and

113
00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 4: mystery around the exact incidents that place in Alton Bud Brown.

114
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 4: He was interviewed the one time, I believe after the incident,

115
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,040
Speaker 4: and he wasn't called to testify at trial.

116
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: He said what he had allegedly just heard and that

117
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,919
Speaker 1: he hadn't seen any of the assailants. And according to

118
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 1: Xavier Stevenson's Affidavid, the arm group left with a camquarder,

119
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: a police scanner, and a cell phone.

120
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,279
Speaker 3: The next day, a knock came at the door, probably

121
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 3: around ten some because I never forget because Price's right

122
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 3: was on and that's when the female friend that I

123
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 3: was staying with, she answered the door and she was like,

124
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 3: it's black. I went outside and holler led him whatever,

125
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 3: and that's when an Xavier Stevens was trying to sell

126
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 3: me the phone. So I was like, at work, that's

127
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 3: the first thing I asked, when I should have asked

128
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,359
Speaker 3: where you got it from. I used the phone just

129
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 3: to call the house to hear the house phone ring.

130
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,800
Speaker 3: I didn't know she was going to pick up the

131
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 3: phone and work. I say what you want for and

132
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,920
Speaker 3: he was like twenty dollars? So I said where you

133
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 3: get it from? So he was like, man, don't worry

134
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 3: about all that, bro, Do you want it or not?

135
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,200
Speaker 3: And when his demeanor change, I was like, nah, I'm good.

136
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 3: At that time, Comiskey had pulled up and he was

137
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 3: asking to use the house phone because at that time

138
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 3: we was hustling and we all had pages. So I

139
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 3: was like, well, shit, he got a phone. He's trying

140
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:11,040
Speaker 3: to saill right now.

141
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 1: Ivory's friend, Comiski Lockett, ended up using the cell phone too,

142
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: and was also later allegedly identified by Clifford Tyler, a

143
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 1: guy I renewed from middle school, but first Tyler identified

144
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 1: no one.

145
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 4: So when he was first interviewed, this was July eleventh,

146
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,040
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four, post surgery, so immediately the day after

147
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 4: his statement was that there were more than one suspect,

148
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 4: but he only saw one. The one suspect he saw

149
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 4: was the first man through the door. He thinks the

150
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 4: first suspect said something similar to give it up prior

151
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 4: to starting shooting, but the suspects were shooting before they

152
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 4: had a chance to react. His initial description was a blackmail,

153
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 4: short and skinny in his thirties.

154
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was nineteen years old, he said. The guy

155
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 3: was short, a dog African male. I was already like six' to,

156
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 3: one like brown, skin the same COLOR i am. Now

157
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 3: they tried to make LIKE i was darker back.

158
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: Then it was.

159
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 2: Crazy now it just ain't, me. Man.

160
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 3: LIKE a couple of days, later the female friend THAT

161
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 3: i was staying, with she told me that a police call,

162
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 3: here AND i say the police for? What you, Know

163
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 3: i'm a drug, Dealer So i'm, like the hell the

164
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,040
Speaker 3: cops call her? For and she like, homicides something about

165
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 3: a phone maybe that phone, dead old, boy trying to

166
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 3: sell your dumb.

167
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 1: Ass lafonda's home phone, record as well As ivory's, pager

168
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: would prove that he was At lafonda's during the. Crime after,

169
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,040
Speaker 1: all that's how he made a, living right he'd get,

170
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: paiged call back on the home phone and do. Business but,

171
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 1: nevertheless the police must have been checking the cell phones,

172
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 1: activity which led them to Call lafonda's home.

173
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 3: PHONE i called the police station trying to see what

174
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 3: the hell they was calling my house. For they was,

175
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 3: like who are? You AND i was, Like Ivory dorser

176
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 3: he called my house or such An it's like there

177
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 3: was a murder of. Vegigation were trying to see who

178
00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,079
Speaker 3: had the phone in because he tell us. ANYTHING i, say,

179
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 3: Man i'm not trying to get him. Ned did you

180
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 3: just say somebody got? Killed i'm trying to protect my.

181
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,679
Speaker 3: People i'm not finna get involved IN. Ned so he was,

182
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 3: like can you come down to the. STATION i, say

183
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 3: come down to the. Station you already got my. Address

184
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,680
Speaker 3: you come over here and high limit my whole family

185
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,680
Speaker 3: gonna be him my. Lawyer it was, like you don't

186
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 3: need no. Lawyer we ain't trying to do all. That

187
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 3: we just want to talk to you see if you

188
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 3: know a couple of these guys that type of. Thing

189
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 3: so he never, came never seen.

190
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: Him and perhaps Since ivory wouldn't risk his and his

191
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 1: family safety to further their, investigation they kept him in

192
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: mind for a later date because this meant that he

193
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: knew who had the cell phone. Right but he didn't

194
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 1: hear any more about this investigation until over a year,

195
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 1: later in which Time Clifford tyler viewed two.

196
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 4: Lineups august twenty, fifth nineteen ninety, four the lead detective

197
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 4: shows him a. Lineup that detective points to the guy

198
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,679
Speaker 4: in the second position and ask if he shot at,

199
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 4: him to which Mister tyler responds that he never really

200
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 4: got a good look at the. Suspects On august, eleventh

201
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety, five this is when Mister tyler's brought to

202
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:04,080
Speaker 4: the police Station Charles monroe's. Mother he was shown another photo.

203
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 4: Lineup one of the photo lineups the lead, detective he,

204
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,079
Speaker 4: says point out the guy with the gold. Tooth and

205
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 4: so that's when Mister tyler points To, kamiski Because comiski

206
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 4: is a man from the neighborhood who had a gold

207
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,640
Speaker 4: tooth at the. Time he, says he's half, shirts Mister

208
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 4: lockett half shirts not because it happened so, quickly so.

209
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: It appears That, Kamisky lockett And ivory were their preferred.

210
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 1: Suspects considering the statement that was produced about a week,

211
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 1: earlier On august, seventh nineteen ninety, five with a woman

212
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 1: Named Letitia henderson who was in jail facing her own.

213
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 4: Charges so she said she was staying at a woman's.

214
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 4: Apartment the woman Is, Squeaky Squeaky's ivory's. Aunt letitia said

215
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,960
Speaker 4: she couldn't provide a, day a, time she couldn't, remember

216
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 4: but she just remembers being there one, time and she

217
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 4: Said ivory was there, frequently and she Heard ivory in

218
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 4: the back room with some other guys saying that he

219
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 4: had hit a. Lick and she saw a lartch amount

220
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 4: of money on the. Bed she saw a black, pistol

221
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 4: and she said that she with another woman that she

222
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 4: was incarcerated, with determined it had to have Been ivory

223
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 4: who Killed monroe Because ivory always carried a mask and

224
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 4: he drove the same blue cars one described by the.

225
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 2: Neighbors they said that she said That's july to, tenth

226
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,640
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. Four she was At squeaky. House Well squeaky was.

227
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 3: Incarcerated she wind up getting locked Up december ninety three

228
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 3: or something like, that writing Hot, chicks and they came

229
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 3: and Vict us out the. House the constables did and

230
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,960
Speaker 3: they locked that door. Up nobody was in the. House july,

231
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:34,840
Speaker 3: tenth nineteen ninety.

232
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 4: Four the police then Interviewed squeaky and that's When squeaky

233
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 4: said she had never Seen Letitia henderson in her.

234
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,839
Speaker 1: Life, nevertheless they Visited ivory for the first.

235
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,439
Speaker 2: Time the investigators was asking, me do you know this?

236
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 2: Guy do you know that? Guy i'm like.

237
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 3: No when they mentioned to The fertiler name we had

238
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 3: went to middle, school was like and their name. Familiar

239
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 3: so WHEN i asked around the, neighborhood somebody, say, man that's,

240
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 3: toughy AND i was, like, Toughy oh, SHIT i Know.

241
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 2: Toughy he KNOW i ain't coming his.

242
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,959
Speaker 3: House i'm gonna just go high let him and ask

243
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 3: him to go to the police station with. Me now

244
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 3: do you THINK i would actually come in his, house

245
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 3: kill his, friend shoot him and his other, homeboy and

246
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 3: then come to him and ask him.

247
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:12,720
Speaker 2: To go to the police.

248
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: Station now that doesn't sound. Likely so even with Seeing

249
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 1: ivory in the, Flesh tyler wouldn't Corroborate Lutitia henderson's clearly false.

250
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: Statement but, yet the state later claimed That tyler was

251
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,200
Speaker 1: just too scared to come.

252
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,320
Speaker 4: Forward the theory that prosecutors put forth that he was

253
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 4: scared to come, forward scared to be able to, snitch

254
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 4: is questionable because he cooperates with the police seven times

255
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,560
Speaker 4: throughout the twelve. Years one of the times was in

256
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,839
Speaker 4: two thousand and. One the police report says that he

257
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 4: spoke to the lead, detective but we have no summary

258
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 4: about what was said during that.

259
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 1: Interview and then in two thousand and, Six Harris county

260
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 1: began reopening cold cases and they Paid Clifford tyler another

261
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,679
Speaker 1: visit That, april and we're not sure, why but by

262
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: this time it seems he was ready to.

263
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 4: Cooperate his statement is that he could recall everything from

264
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four like it happened, yesterday and that's when

265
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,320
Speaker 4: the lead detective made a photo. Spread Mister tyler pointed

266
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 4: to the individual in the three, position which the police

267
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 4: report says Is Aaron, brown and that's when Mister tyler

268
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 4: says he's positive that he was.

269
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,839
Speaker 1: There Aaron brown is the brother of a previous guest

270
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 1: on this, Show alfred D Wayne, brown who left a

271
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 1: really powerful impression on. Me by the, way we'll link

272
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 1: alfred interview in the episode. Description strangely though The browns

273
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 1: And ivory all grew up in The Villa, Americana so

274
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,359
Speaker 1: maybe there's a pattern of policing in impoverished black. Neighborhoods

275
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 1: certainly seems that way in this. One but either, way

276
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 1: That Aaron brown idea was ignored and the police went

277
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,840
Speaker 1: back To Clifford. Tyler that may where he Id'd ivory And,

278
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,679
Speaker 1: camiski both of whom had contact with this drug house

279
00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,439
Speaker 1: cell phone Through Xavier.

280
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 3: Stevenson IF i did something like, This, hill why WOULD

281
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 3: i even use the phone to call my phone? MAN

282
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 3: i won't even took no damn cell. Phone xaviers had

283
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 3: to be crazy to even do something like. That you

284
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 3: know What i'm saying, now real toll. Man and by that,

285
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,600
Speaker 3: Time Exaviers stevenson wind up catching two murder cases behind

286
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 3: a ten cent dispute in the, store so he wind

287
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 3: up going on death.

288
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 1: Row it seems that the police didn't know About, xavier

289
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:30,280
Speaker 1: but rather that this cell phone both led To ivory And,

290
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: comiskey but that it also led to phone and pager

291
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: records that would Prove ivory's. Innocence so how do they

292
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: Used tyler's identification and ignore how they got To ivory

293
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 1: in the first. Place the cell. Phone, well the police

294
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: claimed that a man Named Kelton smith said That ivory

295
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 1: had confessed to, him leading them back To Clifford, Tyler

296
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 1: but the last recorded interaction With tyler was that.

297
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 3: Spring now they said they talked To Kelter smith In? October,

298
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,480
Speaker 3: right how did he you go? Back this is not

299
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 3: a time. Machine nobody never caught that, though BUT i.

300
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 3: Did how'd you gonna talk to somebody In october and

301
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 3: then say you go back from the new evidence that you,

302
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 3: discovered you go back and go talk to?

303
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 1: Him and may you can't, obviously but now they had

304
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: a path to an indictment without mentioning the cell.

305
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,040
Speaker 4: Phone the charging instrument was filed On december, nineteenth two

306
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 4: thousand and. Six it Lists Letitia, Henderson Clifford tyler his,

307
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 4: lineup and Then Kelton, smith who testified and recanted a

308
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 4: statement at. Trial but those three and not the, phone

309
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,400
Speaker 4: were sited in the charging instrument Against. Ivory ivery never

310
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 4: had the opportunity to exercise his right to Question Letitia

311
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 4: henderson since she was one of his.

312
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 3: Accusers the case should have been dismissed because that's what

313
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 3: they act. Like they had from the get.

314
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 4: Go it wasn't That Letitia henderson was listed as a

315
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 4: state's witness and didn't show. Up she wasn't even listed

316
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,680
Speaker 4: as a state. Witness.

317
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: Wow so trial began In december two thousand and seven

318
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: without Either letitia or the freaking cell, phone but rather

319
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 1: the other surviving, Victim Willie.

320
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 4: Williams and that's when he revealed to the jury that

321
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 4: he had met with The District attorney at the time

322
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 4: the night. Before so this was the night After varder

323
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 4: In ivory's, case and when he arrived at the DA's,

324
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 4: Office Clifford tyler was there and they had spoken about

325
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 4: the case and bits and.

326
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 3: Pieces Willie williams was sitting in there with THE dja

327
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 3: corroborating their. Statement but the interesting thing about Mister, williams

328
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 3: like he told the, Truth like this man was not

329
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 3: one of the mans that came to my house that,

330
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 3: night but the police he'll be like he tentively ideed,

331
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 3: him just saying stuff like, that and it was all a.

332
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 3: Lie the man, SAID i never seen his man. Before he,

333
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 3: said he's seen a Dark African american male and he's

334
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 3: seen a Bright African american male that was like high.

335
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 3: Yellow you know What i'm, Saying i'm neither one of.

336
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 1: Them So Willie williams was more of a defense, witness

337
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: as Was Calton, smith who they claimed had Heard ivory.

338
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 3: Confess basically was telling him like, this what you said

339
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 3: on this Affid? Davis he, said you may HAVE Affi,

340
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 3: davis BUT i have assigned. Anything so he just told the.

341
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,439
Speaker 3: Truth like me and him never had a conversation about

342
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 3: me telling him THAT i killed white. Boy he told, me, say,

343
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 3: MAN i don't even talk like, that Like i'm running

344
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 3: around the neighborhood of Saying i'll kill somebody or. Something

345
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,120
Speaker 3: he said that they threatened him if he didn't say

346
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 3: what they wanted him to, say he won't gonna go

347
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:23,639
Speaker 3: home this.

348
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 4: Family Kelton smith's testimony was first On december, eleventh so

349
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,640
Speaker 4: that night is when the district attorney at the time

350
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 4: saw him and threatened. Him and then it's On december

351
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 4: twelfth that he, SAYS i was. Intimidated they said THAT

352
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 4: i wouldn't see my daughters IF i changed my testimony

353
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 4: When i'm supposed to be released In. May and then

354
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 4: that's when the district attorney was trying to get him

355
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 4: to go into how much bigger he is than, her

356
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 4: and how could she possibly be intimidating to? Him and

357
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 4: that's when he mentioned he, Said i'm not intimidated, physically

358
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 4: but when you're a part of the system and you

359
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 4: threatened to prevent me from seeing my, daughters THAN i am.

360
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,359
Speaker 1: Intimidated Kelton smith was the last unintentional defense. Witness but

361
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: it seems Like ivory's attorney didn't prepare or even mount

362
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 1: a defense of his.

363
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 3: Own he didn't talk to none of THE da. Witnesses

364
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 3: he never talked to none of my. Witnesses and he'll

365
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,399
Speaker 3: tell them someone they can, understand even A. Celton he was,

366
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 3: like did you ever talk to me or?

367
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,160
Speaker 2: Anybody?

368
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 3: No did anybody promise you your statement for your such?

369
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 3: Initiinate he was, like, no never seen, him never talked to.

370
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 4: Anybody ivory's attorney declined to make an opening. Statement there

371
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 4: were no defense witnesses during the guilt and innocence phase

372
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 4: of this. Trial there's just questions of Whether ivory really

373
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 4: had effective assistance of.

374
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: Counsel it certainly seems that. Way i've retold him about

375
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: the phone records and begged him to Subpoena Xavier.

376
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 3: Stevenson BUT i told my, lawyer, hey, man you need

377
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 3: to subpoena this, guy like along with my alibi, witnesses

378
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i could prove THAT i was somewhere. Else so

379
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 3: my lawyers he always told me the case was, weak

380
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 3: AND i was trying to build a defense for. Myself

381
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 3: but he was always, saying.

382
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 2: Man you're innocent to proven.

383
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 3: Guilty everybody knows that's a, lie especially when you're a black.

384
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 2: Man you not innocent to prove, guilty not In Harrison.

385
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: County so all it took Was Clifford, tyler who they

386
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: claimed to overcome a fear of reprisal to Identify ivory

387
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,400
Speaker 1: after twelve, years a fear that they tried to support

388
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 1: by talking about When ivory had reached out to him

389
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty.

390
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 3: Five he even mentioned this on the stand THAT i

391
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,640
Speaker 3: was at the flea market AND i was by. Myself

392
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 3: he was with his, cousin he was with his, brother

393
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 3: he was with his, homeboy AND i was asking you

394
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 3: to go to the police station with. Me that's why

395
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,439
Speaker 3: my lawyer was, like, well it seemed like he was

396
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 3: trying to clear his, name and he, said what did you?

397
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 3: Say he, SAID i didn't want to see. HIM i

398
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 3: didn't want to talk to. HIM i just want to

399
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,400
Speaker 3: sat in the. Car, now that's a. Lie we didn't

400
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 3: have no beef with each. OTHER i never knew that

401
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 3: he was a person that didn't like. ME i never

402
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 3: knew that he Would god understand and do something like

403
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 3: this to.

404
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: Me and it's not like he hadn't cooperated with police

405
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,880
Speaker 1: seven times over twelve. Years and something telling happened when

406
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: the assistant District, Attorney Rachel, ponk asked him about the identification.

407
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 3: Process she, said did you tell anybody from law enforcement

408
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 3: that it Was Ivory dorsey who done this before they

409
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 3: showed you the picture of?

410
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 2: Him or after they showed him the? Picture and he said,

411
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 2: after IF.

412
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 3: I had to show you a picture of someone before

413
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 3: you said was, them that's not your coming.

414
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 2: Forward you never.

415
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: Knew who it, was especially when he'd Known ivory for many.

416
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: Years and it appears that this pattern.

417
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: Continued he would say one minute that they, like what

418
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 3: did you see when the door? Open he'll say chrome

419
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 3: gun or something like, that and then she'll switch it

420
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 3: up and, then, oh, NA i saw a pump shotgun

421
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 3: to make LIKE i got the murder weapon and then

422
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 3: he said something about LIKE i was the shortest, guy

423
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 3: AND i was, LIKE i was six. Ones that's against

424
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: what the witness, said you, know like he was freestyling

425
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 3: and they was misleading him the whole.

426
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: Time but despite the issues with his, testimony it appears

427
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: to have Scared ivory's trial attorney into scrambling a last

428
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 1: minute alibi witness with the help Of ivory's friend and,

429
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: mentor Mister.

430
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 3: Perkins now he's, REALIZING I i guess that Am i'm

431
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 3: gonna send this man to prison for something he didn't.

432
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 3: Do and he's, like do you think, that Mister, perkinson.

433
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: Go get your son.

434
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 3: Mother SO i had talked to my son mother night

435
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 3: before and he went over there and nobody answered the,

436
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 3: door and he was, like, man the light was, ON

437
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 3: i heard THE tv playing the.

438
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: Number nobody came to the. Door so it's like.

439
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 3: WOW a couple years, LATER i didn't find out that

440
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: she was pregnant by another guy and she had a

441
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 3: baby that same day THAT i was going to.

442
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: Try that's why she wasn't.

443
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: There AND i.

444
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 4: Think the trial attorney realized after there was a guilty verdict.

445
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 4: Rendered and it's during the defense's closing remarks when the

446
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 4: trial attorney, admits and this is, verbatim the attorney, says

447
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: how easy it is to convict a young black. Man

448
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 4: it's just. Easy this is. Obscene this is obscene what you.

449
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 4: Did and it's Not ivory. Door she's. Fault it's. MINE

450
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 4: i had ten strikes and OBVIOUSLY i didn't use them

451
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 4: appropriately or properly in this. Case.

452
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 3: Man at that, Moment i'm talking to guard in my

453
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: head And i'm, LIKE i didn't even do. This is

454
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 3: it's somebody that you want me to. Meet DO i

455
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 3: supposed to go to the. Penitentiary it's something that you

456
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: want me to, do Because i'll. Go but you KNOW

457
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 3: i didn't do. This i'm innocent of. This AND i

458
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 3: heard this Scripture joshua one through. Nine he was, saying

459
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 3: don't be. Afraid i'll go with you. Wherever you know

460
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: What i'm, saying be strong and be very. Courageous i'm

461
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: gonna be with you wherever you.

462
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: Go that's WHAT i.

463
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 3: Heard and WHEN i got in the shower that, night

464
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: BUT i cried like twenty years for something THAT i didn't.

465
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 3: DO i didn't understand why all this was happening to.

466
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 3: Me you, know losing my mother at a young, age

467
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 3: trying to take care of my, sister trying to do

468
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 3: things like why did this guy get up there and

469
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: lie on? Me DID i hurt this guy in some

470
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 3: kind of way?

471
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: Intentionally?

472
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: UNKNOWINGLY i didn't know What i'm, saying and seeing him do,

473
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 3: that LIKE i, THOUGHT i was something THAT i wasn't

474
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: WHEN i first got locked up for this, BRO i

475
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: ain't gonna.

476
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: LIE i w wasn't strong like. This NOW i wanted

477
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 2: to commit.

478
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 3: SUICIDE i felt LIKE i had let my kids. DOWN

479
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: i had promised my kids THAT i would always be

480
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 3: there for them BECAUSE i didn't have a, daddy you

481
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: know What i'm. Saying AND i promised them, like, man

482
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: if anything happened to, ME i want y'all always to

483
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 3: take care of each other and be with each. Other they,

484
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: separated we all. SEPARATED i wouldn't seeing them and stuff like.

485
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: That and that's when time started really getting to. ME

486
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: i wouldn't seeing my, people AND i love hard, MAN

487
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 3: i love my, people you know What i'm. Saying reality kicked.

488
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 3: IN i had to get on my, knees could just be,

489
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 3: grateful just. SURVIVE i started drawing, them you, know and

490
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: the music and stuff like. That that became my cell.

491
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 3: THERAPY i had to rely on the, real livey. DOORS

492
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: i had to go back to being myself WHEN i

493
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: was a kid AND i used to draw those, pictures

494
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: and that stuff started coming back to. Me, Man that's

495
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: what helped me get through this. TIME i started cutting

496
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: hair and just vibing with different. People now was showing

497
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: me how to go to the law, library how to do,

498
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: research how to work on the. Lot and that's When

499
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: god started introducing me to people, inside like a guy

500
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: Named Danny.

501
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: Anderson in addition to guys Like, Danny ivory wrote to

502
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: many attorneys and innocence organizations and received support from The

503
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: Texas Innocence, project who reached out To Xavier.

504
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: Stevenson and before, THAT i had a dream That Exavier

505
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 3: stevenson he had came on the same UNIT i was.

506
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 3: On he's, like what are you doing? Here AND i,

507
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: say may you know that cell phone you tried to sell?

508
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: Me and he, said don't worry about. IT i got

509
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: you AND i woke up in a cold. Switch that's

510
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: WHEN i got The Alpha davis from.

511
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: Him by this, Time xavier's defense team was able to

512
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: get his death sentence thrown out he.

513
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 4: Had an intellectual. Disability he was charged with murdering two

514
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 4: people over ten cents in a convenience. Store so the

515
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 4: courts ruled that it would be violating his right that

516
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 4: prevents against cron unusual punishment if he was put to,

517
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 4: death and so his sentence was commuted to. Life he

518
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: is pro eligible in twenty forty.

519
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: And in direct conflict with that, Objective xavier wrote an

520
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: affidavit Supporting ivory.

521
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: Edis when he found out THAT i was incarcerated for

522
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: something that he had, done he does The. AFFIDAVID i

523
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 3: Think september twenty. TWELVE i get the Affid. David Immediately i'm, like,

524
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: Wow i'm finna ask for evidentier HERE i KNEW i

525
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: was finna go.

526
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: Home you know What i'm. Saying it's twenty.

527
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 3: Twelve we talked about twelve years, ago thirteen years, ago

528
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: AND i was talking to this guy Named Larry. Brown

529
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: because Now i'm on a different unit From, DANNY i

530
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: reach out To danny and we found out That danny's

531
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: Did i'm, like, Wow so REMEMBER i just got a

532
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 3: whole rit done By Danny anderson twenty seven grounds that

533
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 3: he found in the. Case that's how bad it. Was

534
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 3: And larry was, like how you gonna do. That you're

535
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: gonna do? ACT i, say Because i'm actually. Innocent and

536
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: it was, Like, okay you can do, that but you

537
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: can't file all the.

538
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: Grounds his Friend Larry brown advised him to will down

539
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: the filing to his eight strongest constitutional claims to pair

540
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: with his actual innocence claim and newly discovered.

541
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: EVIDENCE i filed it in twenty. Fifteen when you file something,

542
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: good they gonna delay. You when you file something, bad

543
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: they gonna deny.

544
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: You. Man they got so many ways to just tell you,

545
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: KNOW i wrote the judge this, LEFT i asked.

546
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: THEM i, said up from the bottom of my, Heart,

547
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 3: MAN i put everything on my mother's, GRAVE i, said.

548
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: MAN i told the.

549
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: JUDGE i, say, man, LOOK i don't even care about

550
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: no money or none of.

551
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: That you know What i'm. Saying it was this out For.

552
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: Davis please just let me go.

553
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: Home SO i could save my son from coming to

554
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 3: the penitential of getting killed on the streets Of. HOUSTON

555
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 3: i just want to go home SO i can finish

556
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 3: raising my. Kids but they held that.

557
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: Rid deny or. Delay this went on until another friend

558
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: Named Steve morgan helped him get the evidentiary hearing that

559
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: he deserved A navy.

560
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: Seal he the one got me, back do the. Evidence you're.

561
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: Here they bench warmed me. Back they reset me like

562
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: twenty two. TIMES i wind up staying in the county

563
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: twenty two. Months they resetted me every, month and they

564
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 3: USED covid for an excuse like they always do to.

565
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 3: DELAY i finally got my day in. COURT i just

566
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: KNEW i was finna go. Home Exavier stevenson got up

567
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: there and exonerated, me really told the truth about.

568
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 4: Everything Mister stevenson went through very specific details of the

569
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: crime that you could not have known about if you weren't.

570
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: There he recalled that there were three cars in the,

571
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 4: driveway that there were nice rims in the, house and

572
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 4: this matches the police. Report he identified that there were

573
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 4: men in the kitchen clipping each other's. Hair he recalled

574
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 4: a pool table right in the front. Room he just

575
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: recalled things very.

576
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 3: Accurately they tried to cross him up and make like

577
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 3: he was lying and like he was doing me a.

578
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: Favor how you doing me a, favor Mister.

579
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: Stevenson he also filed a habeas write at the time

580
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: of the evident your, hearing he hadn't heard. Back he's

581
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 4: still eligible for. Parole he comes up For pearl and twenty.

582
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: Forty he had, children so if, anything he jeopardized himself

583
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: by coming.

584
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: Forward it was very. Emotional he broke down. Crying it

585
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: made me start crying BECAUSE.

586
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe that it was steal people on Planet

587
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 3: earth that would tell the truth about something that they.

588
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: Did AND i mirre that a man would stand up

589
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: and take responsibility for his own. DESTINY i wouldn't let

590
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: no nobody go down for.

591
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: Me.

592
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: Man If i've done, SOMETHING i tell y'all done. It

593
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: AND i was, wondering, like why is the family not?

594
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: Here why the victim family not? Here like they should

595
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: have been there to hear. That his mother should have

596
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: been there to hear. That you know What i'm, saying

597
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 3: to get some type of, closure real. Talk, well the youngest,

598
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: son he feels like since his mother had passed AND

599
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 3: i had been, gone he had told me THAT i

600
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: really needs you out. Here when you think you're gonna get,

601
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: OUT i thought you was gonna win you a. Pill

602
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: AND i was trying to explain to him THAT i

603
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: am gonna win my, pill just speaking by. Faith just

604
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: bad with, Me, man just hold, On i'm. TRYING i

605
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: told him like. THIS i, Say, Man i'm in the

606
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: middle of a war AND i don't have no. GUN

607
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: i don't have no. Bullets i'm over here making bullets

608
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: and make an assault rifles to fight these. People BECAUSE

609
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: i don't have the. AMMUNITION i have to get in

610
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: these books AND i have to learn this and ask

611
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: questions BECAUSE i don't. Notice this is not my. Language

612
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: see you could thank you got so much game until

613
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: you go on in front of them.

614
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: Votes, well they've still been holding. It you know What i'm.

615
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: Saying they've just been delaying it, like never heard nothing back.

616
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: From it's really unbelievable when the actual assailment comes forward

617
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: and their response is just that they just want to

618
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: bury their heads in the. Sand but luckily are good

619
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: friends At, Georgiatown Mark howard and the one and Only Marty. Tankliffe,

620
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: well they're branching out to other college, campuses And princeton

621
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: agreed to offer their making an ex. Recourse in the

622
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: spring semester Of kennedy's senior year in.

623
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: High, SCHOOL i interned at The Ohio Innocence project and

624
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: was really blown away WHEN i met some of the

625
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 4: exoneries who talked about how they had been screwed by

626
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: the legal, system AND i spent all of colleges trying

627
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 4: to learn more about, it which is during the spring

628
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 4: semester of my senior years when this class was. Offered

629
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: it was a no. Brainer we were given four cases

630
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: to read, through And ivory stuck out immediately because the

631
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: case summary described that someone had come forward and, confessed

632
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: But ivory was still in, prison which not knowing anything

633
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 4: else about his. Case that's mind. Blowing and so with

634
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 4: one of our, professors we'd have calls and we'd go

635
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 4: over exactly what we were doing for the. Investigation we

636
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 4: all would, workshop so these would happen. Weekly we'd Update

637
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 4: ivory on who we spoke, to what we found through

638
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 4: going through the police, reports the trial, transcripts Which ivory

639
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 4: had not received at that. Point we were the first

640
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: people to Send ivory his files because he couldn't access.

641
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: Them So ivory was seeing this material for the first,

642
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 4: time and so we were all going through like, seeing

643
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 4: oh my, gosh on page like twenty, six line, seven

644
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: look at, this like look at what this person. Said

645
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 4: we had Visited houston. Twice both trips were interviewing. Witnesses

646
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: it was also Meeting ivory's family in, person because we

647
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: wanted to get to know the people who were imported

648
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: In ivory's life and help them connect with. Them it

649
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: was really just everything we worked on his, case but

650
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 4: it was more so making sure that he was fully set.

651
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: Up he was connected to people he hadn't been connected within, years.

652
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: And like so many of us in this, movement once

653
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: you see, it you just can't turn.

654
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: Away ken and them they did a little bit more

655
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: than what they told, You like they was sending us, books,

656
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: money making SURE i had something to. Eat they did

657
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: more than what they had. To they could have just

658
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: did just for a grade and moved, on but, no

659
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: they got. Involved they got in the foxhole with. Me

660
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 3: they became family man real.

661
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 4: Toe In may of twenty twenty three is WHEN i

662
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 4: graduated AND i started working, immediately and So ivory AND

663
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 4: i adjusted our call. Schedules we still worked on his

664
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 4: case and we shifted to, parole and so that was

665
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 4: WHEN i was working with two other, Students ben And,

666
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: carry and we all kind of worked on. It ivory

667
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: had all of his educational, Certificates we got over eleven

668
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: eleven to twelve letters of rec tracked down his childhood

669
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: pastor to write a letter of. Recommendation he got a

670
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: hold of his disciplinary record which had four non violent,

671
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: infractions with the latest infraction being like twenty, twelve and

672
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: it was like you were late to class because your

673
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 4: door was barricaded from. Something Just we put together a

674
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: pearl packet that ended up being one hundred and nine,

675
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 4: pages And ivory had an attorney from an innocence clinic

676
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 4: out Of Texas southern who stepped in to Represent ivory

677
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 4: during his parole. Hearing so that takes us Through december

678
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty. Three ivery. One did you get the

679
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: official letter that you were a proof of? Parole?

680
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: Wow seven less.

681
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: Light.

682
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 4: YEAH i just remember refreshing the page that morning seeing

683
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: that you were, approved and THEN i Messaged ivory On

684
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 4: securists AND i said call me in all, caps which

685
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: is WHEN i was able to tell you that you

686
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 4: were approved for.

687
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: Parole, yeah AND i broke.

688
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: Down, yeah, yeah we both.

689
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: Did i've never been on parole because this is like

690
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: my first time really being IN, tdc So i'm asking

691
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 3: all the, inmates, like, hey what's this? All you got

692
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: to go to a rehabilitation. Thing so WHEN i got

693
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: to the, program my son was. There this is the

694
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 3: twelve year old that was at the house with me

695
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 3: that day WHEN i got. Arrested my ten and twelve year,

696
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: old but this was my oldest, son my, junior AND

697
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: i haven't seen him in eighteen. Years so WHEN i

698
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: get to the, UNIT i got a chance to hugg. Him,

699
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: man we sat there and talked for a, while and we,

700
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: vibe you know What i'm, saying just chopping it up

701
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: and everything by his, brother by his. Situation HOW i

702
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: wanted to see him on the outside so we could

703
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: sit down and have. DINNER i want to restore our

704
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: relationship with my kids and get everything going back.

705
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: Together just seeing my. Son and then it's crazy.

706
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: Because the drugs inside the system with the kids and,

707
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: stuff and now you know What i'm, saying that my

708
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 3: child eventually was doing this and it hurted, me AND

709
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: i was trying not to get into it with him

710
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: because it's at this time when you have to be a.

711
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: Father but Then i've been gone for eighteen, years so

712
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: AND i try to tell him, something it's like we

713
00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: would bump heads with each.

714
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Other BUT i was. HURT i had missed.

715
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: HIM i missed on trying to discipline, him AND i

716
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: couldn't tell him.

717
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: Nothing and he's back in cars of.

718
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 3: Raided he got out like about four months before me

719
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: and went back to the. County AND i wind up

720
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: getting Out february.

721
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 4: The, fifth and he went back. In was it the

722
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 4: day that you got out or was it was a

723
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: few days, Before.

724
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah violating his parole of.

725
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 3: Curfew AND i never got a chance to chop it

726
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: up with, him you know What i'm.

727
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 2: Saying in the free.

728
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 3: World AND i talked to him on the phone and

729
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: stuff like, that but, MAN i just don't get. IT

730
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: i love, him, Man and every TIME i call, Him i'm,

731
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 3: like just take care of. YOURSELF i just want to

732
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 3: see you out there and take care of my, grandbaby

733
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: which is his. Daughter she played, basketball she run. Track

734
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: smart little, girl need her. DAD i can't even go

735
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: to a game and see her play BECAUSE i can't

736
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: go To Harris. COUNTY i can't go see none of

737
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 3: my family In Harris. County you know What i'm. SAYING i, said,

738
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: WELL i just got to be. Grateful at LEAST i

739
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: Know i'm.

740
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: Gome we wish you nothing but the best on your

741
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: continued struggle to clear your. Name and as we're all

742
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: aware both that legal battle and even just, surviving nothing

743
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 1: comes for. Free And ivory is, working but he needs

744
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: more support than he can. Muster so we're going to

745
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: be linking his GoFundMe in the episode, description and we'll

746
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: follow his social. Media we're going to put in the

747
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: episode description so we can follow his progress and who,

748
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: knows maybe even get to hear some great.

749
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: MUSIC i want to release this song That i'm working.

750
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: On it's called it Was All just A. Dream i'm

751
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: coming from my. Mother he had it to my. FATHER

752
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: i want to release that For mama and all the

753
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 3: mothers in the, world grandmother's baby, mothers BECAUSE i lost

754
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 3: my son mother WHILE i was going. Too SO i

755
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: just want to dedicate this to the women man who have.

756
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 4: Children and then if social media is at Bring ivory.

757
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: Home so please scroll down and Support. Ivory and with,

758
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: that we're going to go to closing, arguments where first of,

759
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: ALL i want to thank each of you from the

760
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: bottom of my heart for being here closing. Arguments i'm

761
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: going to turn my microphone off and just kick back

762
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: in my chair and listen to anything else each of

763
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: you want to. Share, kennedy you started, off and then

764
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: when you're, done just hand the microphone off To ivory

765
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: and he'll take us off into the.

766
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 4: Sunset thank you so much for having us in giving

767
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 4: us the opportunity to share ivory story with the. World

768
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 4: it's as infuriating as it. Sounds there are as many

769
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 4: questions as you think there. Are we're still finding new

770
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 4: stuff every, day and while we've had the, OPPORTUNITY i

771
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 4: think to talk about the hallmarks of wrongful conviction that

772
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: are In ivory's, case the inconsistent eyewitness, testimony the ineffective

773
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,959
Speaker 4: assistance of, counsel official misconduct throughout the trial and during

774
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 4: the appellate. Phase there were also a lot of smaller

775
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 4: injustices throughout the way That ivory had to deal, with

776
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: one of which being staying connected with. Family it's really

777
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 4: expensive and when you rely on those family and friends

778
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: to support you mentally and spiritually as well as to

779
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: help you fight for your, innocence it's really. Hard so

780
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 4: that was one just the challenges with. Parole ivory found

781
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 4: out that he was not being released until year after

782
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 4: he was given, parole and it was in the fall

783
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 4: that he was told he couldn't step foot In Harris,

784
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 4: county which is where his entire parole packet laid out

785
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 4: his reentry. Plan so just the challenges of parole as another.

786
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 4: Injustice he's. Faced the. Heat there's no ac Inside texas,

787
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 4: prisons And ivory can speak to how hot it was

788
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 4: throughout the. Summer that's why we were rushing to get

789
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 4: him released when we found out that he was approved In,

790
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 4: january so that he wouldn't have to spend another summer

791
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 4: inside Of texas. Prisons and the last Thing ivory worked

792
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 4: all throughout his, incarceration but he wasn't paid a. Cent

793
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 4: and so these are some of the injustices that he

794
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 4: also had to deal with that weren't part of his

795
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 4: fighting for his innocence per, se but just details to

796
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 4: keep in mind as there are other people fighting for their.

797
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: Innocence this injustice in this, world, man it's like a.

798
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: Disease it's not going to own my door, now but

799
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: tomorrow can be knocking on. Yodo there's no respective. PERSON

800
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: i don't care who he. Is it doesn't matter if

801
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: you black or. WHITE i got friends inside that's black and.

802
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: White That's meskins that's going through the same. Thing AND

803
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 3: i don't want to forget those, guys you know What i'm.

804
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 3: Saying AND i think this happened to me BECAUSE i

805
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: judged a. Man i'll never forget. IT i was sitting

806
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: on the couch Youre. No six AND i seen this

807
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: man on the news and they said he had raped these.

808
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 3: KIDS i don't even know this, man BUT.

809
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: I judged this.

810
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: Man god showed me that same man coming out in

811
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine where he was exonerated BY, dna

812
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: and this TIME.

813
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: I was in.

814
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 3: Jail it made me look at life. Different, Man like

815
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: if you don't know, something shut your damn.

816
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: Mouth people don't. Understand it ain't gotta be, You it

817
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: can be your.

818
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: Kids Maybe god allowed me to go through this to

819
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: help somebody else out that's gonna go through this because

820
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: he told Me i'm bringing you out of your. Valley

821
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 3: but the other people that's gonna have to go through.

822
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: This this injustice is. Everywhere people keep ignoring it like

823
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 3: it doesn't, matter but we need to do something different for.

824
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: Real it's like. Cancer, man.

825
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to wrongful. Conviction you can listen

826
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: to this and all The lava For good podcasts one

827
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing To lava For

828
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: Good plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production,

829
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my

830
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 1: fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Cleiber

831
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: the music in this production was supplied by three TIME

832
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us

833
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms At lava For good and

834
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: At Wrongful. Conviction you can also follow me On instagram

835
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: At It's Jason. Flamm Wrongful conviction is a production Of

836
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company Number.

837
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: One we have worked hard to ensure that all facts

838
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: reported in this show are.

839
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: Accurate the views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured

840
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: in this show are their own and do not necessarily

841
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: reflect those Of lava For good