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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Aron, Welcome back to the latest edition and playoff

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Speaker 1: edition of the Book of Joe with Me, Tom Berducci

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Speaker 1: and Joe Madden. Joe, I happened to be on the

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Speaker 1: only series so far that it's been even at one

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Speaker 1: one after two games. You have three series up two

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Speaker 1: to nothing. Let me start, because I think it's been

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Speaker 1: the most interesting series.

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Speaker 2: The Dodgers at the Philadelphia Phillies.

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Speaker 1: I thought going in, Joe, this would be the World Series.

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Speaker 2: I really think the World Series would come out of

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Speaker 2: this series.

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Speaker 1: It's been competitive, but I know Phillies fans are not

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Speaker 1: gonna be happy losing the first two at home.

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Speaker 2: They should not be.

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Speaker 1: But Joe, I look at the Dodger team right now,

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Speaker 1: and this is the Dodger team that we expected. This

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Speaker 1: is the starting pitching that we expected when the year

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Speaker 1: went on, when it started, and they're firing on all

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Speaker 1: cylinders right now. So I don't think it's so much

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Speaker 1: everything the Phillies have done wrong as much as right

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Speaker 1: now the Dodgers look like that juggernaut we thought they

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Speaker 1: were going to be.

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Speaker 2: Blake Snell was just awesome in game number two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they turned the switch on, didn't they.

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Speaker 1: We're having a supposed to happen, Joe, but they can't.

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Speaker 3: Right, So the Jimmy Edmunds switch.

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Speaker 4: I told you that story in the past, but I'm

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Speaker 4: telling you certain groups have it. Not that they were

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Speaker 4: bored all year, but they're into it. They're professionals. I

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Speaker 4: love the way they go about their business. However, when

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Speaker 4: they really had to, there came full volume all the way,

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Speaker 4: all the way to like one hundred on the dial.

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Speaker 3: They're doing that, and you're right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, for me, it's the pitching again. You saw

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Speaker 4: at the end of the game though, trying and I'm

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Speaker 4: still concerned. I don't even know how they're going to

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Speaker 4: use it moving forward. They got through that last inning. However,

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Speaker 4: their starters are major league starters. They're major league starting pitchers.

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Speaker 4: They get you deep in the game they can if

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Speaker 4: they're permitted, and they're good. They're really good, and so

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Speaker 4: they are clicking. Talked about this with you prior to this.

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Speaker 4: Mookie Bets turning out to be a better short stuff

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Speaker 4: than I thought he could be. A given credit there

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Speaker 4: and again we talked about this briefly. But the play

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Speaker 4: by Munsey to him at third base. Castianos must not

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Speaker 4: have gotten a good secondary lead right there, and Nick

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Speaker 4: he's not the fastest, but that's a good buck and

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Speaker 4: we could talk about this further. I just didn't know

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Speaker 4: if he would if you had Bunch Stott during the

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Speaker 4: regular season.

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Speaker 3: That's fine if you would not.

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Speaker 4: I know he is left on left whatever, But those

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Speaker 4: are the kind of plays that's where I would second

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Speaker 4: guess myself as a manager if I conceded to do

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Speaker 4: something playoff worthy as opposed to regular season worthy, just

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Speaker 4: because because Nicki is not a good runner.

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Speaker 3: But nevertheless, great play by Munsey and Bets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that play, Joe, because there's at

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Speaker 1: so many levels. That was one of the best defensive

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Speaker 1: postseason plays that I can remember. I'm sure others will

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Speaker 1: come to mind individual spectacular plays. I remember Devon White

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Speaker 1: playing for Toronto make an incredible catch in the World Series,

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Speaker 1: the way he did a lot of times. But this

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Speaker 1: was teamwork to the nth degree. So let's rewind. Because

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Speaker 1: there's a pitching change on the mound, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: and they brought in the lefty. Scott is going to hit.

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Speaker 1: I have no problem with bunting right there. Castianos is

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Speaker 1: at second base. But during the pitching change with Alex

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Speaker 1: VESSI had coming in Mookie Betts while the players are

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Speaker 1: on the mound, decides they're going to run the wheel

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Speaker 1: play where the shortstop covers third third basement charges. You

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Speaker 1: don't see major league teams do this very often. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you don't see teams bunt very often.

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Speaker 1: Ever since the pitchers stopped hitting. There's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of attention paid to bunt defense. And in fact, that

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Speaker 1: Dodgers had run the wheel play once this year, back

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Speaker 1: in August. They ran it against the Angels, they worked

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Speaker 1: out in spring training, nothing in between. So here is Mookie,

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Speaker 1: And to me, Mookie is the kind of player like

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Speaker 1: in basketball, I want the ball in his hands and football,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's the quarterback. I want him making decisions.

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Speaker 1: And I love the fact that you mentioned this, Joe.

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Speaker 1: He's played a really good shortstop, the fact that he

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Speaker 1: decides at that point he's going to run the wheel

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Speaker 1: play on the phillies.

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Speaker 2: And he sold the play so well.

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Speaker 1: Of course, as you know, Joe, if the batter sees

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Speaker 1: the shortstop is vacating, taken off towards third and the

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Speaker 1: second basement is taking off the cover first.

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Speaker 2: Slash the ball up the middle.

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Speaker 1: The whole middle of the field is open, right, but

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Speaker 1: Mooky waited so long. I mean, if you watch it,

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Speaker 1: Vessia is practically releasing the baseball by the time Moki

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Speaker 1: takes his first step. I don't think Stott had time

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Speaker 1: to read Mooki vacating because he did not vacate early.

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Speaker 1: Castianos actually had a pretty good secondary lead. Now Mooki's

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Speaker 1: a lot faster. Mooky clearly beat him to third base.

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Speaker 1: It was not a terrible secondary lead. I think he's

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Speaker 1: just lack of speed trying to get the third base.

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Speaker 1: To me, this is all about Mooky Betts. The way

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Speaker 1: he put the play on sold the play out, ran

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Speaker 1: Castianos to third base, makes this catch on the fly,

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Speaker 1: and then the tag and Munci, you're right, made great play.

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Speaker 1: If you watch his footwork there, it's like a shortstop

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Speaker 1: taking your relay from the outfield.

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Speaker 2: His footwork was spectacular.

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Speaker 1: The way he opened up and threw a strike to

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Speaker 1: third base couldn't couldn't have executed any better. Give the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers credit, Give the Mooki Bets credit. Again, I look

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Speaker 1: at the Philly Phillies fans are going to shake their head,

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Speaker 1: why are we bunting Castianos? This dot that they did

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Speaker 1: everything right. The Dodgers just did everything perfectly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you're right, I didn't get to see the overhead.

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Speaker 4: The wheel play used to be way more popular back

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Speaker 4: in the day.

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Speaker 3: He'd run all the bunt.

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Speaker 4: Plays nauseums during spring training and then during the course

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Speaker 4: of the season, especially like you said, National League, I'd

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Speaker 4: have our guys, we would do it intermittently.

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Speaker 3: Come bring everybody out. Just sachet through the.

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Speaker 4: Plays a little bit, just remind everybody when they're supposed

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Speaker 4: to be definitely at the halfway point. But without bunting,

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Speaker 4: without pitchers hitting, it's become obviously less of an issue.

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Speaker 4: So the fact that they actually thought of it, because

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Speaker 4: you can doesn't have to be runners on first and second.

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Speaker 4: That situation there with runner on second base only and

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Speaker 4: the runner was perfect for the Dodgers. Castianos is the

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Speaker 4: perfect foil right there for the Dodgers because he doesn't

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Speaker 4: run well.

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Speaker 3: And I can't.

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Speaker 4: I don't remember really being extraordinary taking secondary leads either.

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Speaker 4: So all the everything the perfect storm for the Dodgers

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Speaker 4: right there, and then they recognized it. It's one thing

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Speaker 4: to have the perfect storm, but you have to reconize

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Speaker 4: that it is, and then you have to go ahead

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Speaker 4: and execute, which they did do. And I'd love to

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Speaker 4: see the overhead exactly what MOOKI did. You described it

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Speaker 4: really well and again I just saw months He's just

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Speaker 4: charging down that line like this was the only thing

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Speaker 4: on his mind, and he did right. The footwork was spectacular,

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Speaker 4: filled it off to his side, he opened up right

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Speaker 4: to the throw. All that stuff was perfect. So, I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is the kind of stuff I want kids to watch.

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Speaker 4: This is what this is what you need to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Highlight.

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Speaker 4: This is fundamental baseball and it's best. That's what won

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Speaker 4: the game. They the fact that they were able to

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Speaker 4: complete that play pretty much put them in position afterwards

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Speaker 4: to win that game. And give him credit. Man, I

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Speaker 4: loved all. I loved everything about that play. Kudos to

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Speaker 4: the Dodgers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I listen.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Blake Snell and he's been great now

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Speaker 1: down the stretch September into October.

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Speaker 2: Here at no surprise, he went out there, pitched to Jim.

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Speaker 1: The game before it show Hey, Otani out there he

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Speaker 1: goes six innings, he looked great, got the win when

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Speaker 1: Tascar Hernandez at the three run homer. You know, right now,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned Joe, they're just flying on all cylinders.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Yamamoto's been great down the stretch. You got

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Speaker 1: Tyler Glassanaw in the bullpen. I'm with you on Tryn

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Speaker 1: and I still don't trust him at this point. I

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Speaker 1: think after Game two, Dave Roberts is going to have

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Speaker 1: to move him back in the circle of trust. And

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Speaker 1: Roki Sasaki, I mean, give again the Dodgers' credit. They

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Speaker 1: put this guy in the bullpen last week of the

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Speaker 1: season in Triple A.

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Speaker 2: Let's give it a shot.

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Speaker 1: And he gets to the big leagues and it's like,

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Speaker 1: let's give him a little more leverage. And in the

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Speaker 1: span of two weeks, this guy's gone from a starting

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Speaker 1: pitcher to a closer in the postseason. He's the first

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Speaker 1: pitcher ever with his first two saves in the postseason.

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Speaker 2: And he doesn't look scared that. I know. People say, wow,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't throw enough strikes to close the game.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he does. His stuff is playing up and simplify,

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Speaker 1: it's just all fastball split. The split is one of

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Speaker 1: the nastiest pitches in the game. To me, Joe, he

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Speaker 1: looks comfortable out there. You know, if the Dodgers are

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Speaker 1: going to get six innings from their starting pitchers, they're

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Speaker 1: not gonna get beat. And I said this before the

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Speaker 1: year started. If the Dodgers ever got to October with

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Speaker 1: even three of their top four starting pitchers healthy, no

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Speaker 1: one's going to beat them.

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Speaker 2: And I still feel the same way.

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Speaker 4: Well, I know Andrew probably saw David Price in Sasaki.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's had to be part of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: When David ascended for us in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 4: he had started a little bit, really was not a

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Speaker 4: relief pitcher, but we brought him out of the pen

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Speaker 4: in the playoffs and he threw the you know, the

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Speaker 4: last inning of the third I think it was against

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Speaker 4: the Red Sox in Game seven at the Trup round

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Speaker 4: ball the hockey we're going to the series. So I

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Speaker 4: think there's some similarities there also with command, control and command.

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Speaker 4: I mean, a guy with an arm like Sasaki and

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Speaker 4: even sawt with what's the kid from Milwaukee the last

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Speaker 4: name miss miss Misserowski.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm Polish. I shouldn't know anyway.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you could miss bats contact is minimal,

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Speaker 4: they'll accept the walk. I mean analytically, they'll accept the walk.

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Speaker 4: When I had Maddy Moore with the again with the Rays,

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Speaker 4: Maddy mow great art, great stuff, miss bats, but would

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Speaker 4: walk people and put you like kind of a hole,

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Speaker 4: but always was able to pitch out of it.

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Speaker 3: We contact miss Bat.

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Speaker 4: So when you look at guys like Sasaki, David Price

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Speaker 4: in the past, Maddymore, Miss Rowski, all these dudes, great stuff,

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Speaker 4: not a lot of hard contact, a lot of swing,

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Speaker 4: and miss I think you're more benevolent regarding accepting the

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Speaker 4: base on balls in these situations. Of course, contact guys.

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Speaker 4: You really can't accept that from because the balls in

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Speaker 4: play too often and bad things could happen. So I

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Speaker 4: think that's part of the analytical framework, is that if

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Speaker 4: you throw hard enough and miss Bat's enough elicit, we

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Speaker 4: contact enough, we accept walks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know Philly is not feeling good, especially

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Speaker 2: down to games to the Dodgers, but and they'll be

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Speaker 2: if they don't get through this series. A lot of

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Speaker 2: talk about you know, the quote unquote window.

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Speaker 1: For this team, which I always hate hearing. You know,

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Speaker 1: teams a Bob all the time. Rosters never are static.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I look at the Phillies, I really think

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Speaker 1: you gotta be careful that people don't look at the

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Speaker 1: Phillies like they're a worse team than they've shown, because

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers, to me, are that good right now.

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Speaker 2: They just running.

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Speaker 1: They're running up against a team playing peak form. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some issues with the Phillies. I mean, right now,

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Speaker 1: Schwarber is not hitting at all. It's just a lefty

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Speaker 1: dependent lineup that you can pitch too. There are some strikeouts,

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Speaker 1: there is some chase in there. But that team being said,

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Speaker 1: this is a really good team. To me, I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to cause a lot of soul searching. But

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Speaker 1: I think you look on the other side and say,

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers right now are that good?

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Speaker 3: Agreed?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it really does come down to the fact

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Speaker 4: that Schwarbs is having a hard time. I mean, Harper's

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Speaker 4: is still okay right now too. They're just not pumping

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Speaker 4: on all cylinders like they did during the regular season. Offensively,

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Speaker 4: if Shwarps could get off the snide, they're a little

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Speaker 4: bit put the ball over a wall, and the same

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Speaker 4: thing with Harper. They just need those two guys to

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Speaker 4: be who they are as much as anything. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I love Turner as a leadoff hitter. As a baseball player,

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Speaker 4: I'm a big, big fan of his. Amy Stott is

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Speaker 4: a grinder, all that kind of good stuff that they do.

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Speaker 3: Real mudo.

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Speaker 4: They have this gritty group of baseball players that I

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Speaker 4: really like. I like them a lot, and I like

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Speaker 4: they're pitching. I like Sanchez, like Suarez, I like all

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Speaker 4: these dudes that they have there. They just you're right,

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Speaker 4: they're catching the wrong team at the wrong time right now,

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Speaker 4: and they're gonna they're gonna have to overcome somehow. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is it's not impossible. The Dodgers just beat them

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Speaker 4: twice in Philly. The Phillies could return the favorite in

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles very easily, It's no question.

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Speaker 3: But I think it has to come from the big boys.

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Speaker 4: Then what the big boys do, and if they don't,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be impossible I think for the Phillies

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Speaker 4: to dig themselves out of this hole.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of holes, let's talk about where the Chicago Cubs

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Speaker 1: are at, down two games to Milwaukee Brewers, who have

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Speaker 1: just boat raced them in two games.

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Speaker 2: I mean both times Chicago takes the lead.

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Speaker 1: There was a dagger of a three year at homer

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Speaker 1: by Vaughan Andrew Vaughn in the bottom of the first

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Speaker 1: inning after Chicago goes up three to nothing at the

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Speaker 1: top of the first. That was just just a huge

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Speaker 1: swing right there. Give me your take on the Cubs

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Speaker 1: right here. I thought they were in trouble as soon

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Speaker 1: as we heard that Kate Horton. Their best picture was

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Speaker 1: not in play with the rib injury. IM and Naga,

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Speaker 1: I've said it all long, down the stretch, He's just

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Speaker 1: a home run waiting to happen, and sure enough that

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Speaker 1: played out in that key spot.

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Speaker 2: With Vaughan and then another one.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I don't see the Cubs coming back in the series, Joe.

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, they're going back to Wrigley. We know

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Speaker 2: anything that happen.

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Speaker 1: But where's it gonna start with the Cubs in terms

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Speaker 1: of how they can shut the Brewers down?

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Speaker 2: Because right now the Brewers are rolling.

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Speaker 1: We know they're a good offensive team. We didn't know

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Speaker 1: they were gonna hit home runs the way they did

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Speaker 1: in Game two. They're gonna do that. They're gonna be unbeatable.

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Speaker 1: What are the chances the Cubs get back in the series. Joe,

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Speaker 1: it's not likely. And I'm my main reason for that

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Speaker 1: is they're pitching. Like you're talking about the starting pitching.

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Speaker 1: Is Italian going to pitch the next start? Is he

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Speaker 1: up next?

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Speaker 2: I would imagine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you got Colin Ray and Ty One again,

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Speaker 1: Craig Counsel.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna mix a match and get guys out quickly.

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Speaker 1: But to me, I just don't see a guy out

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Speaker 1: there who's going to And I think you need to

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Speaker 1: do this once in a while in the postseason, Joe,

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Speaker 1: take the ball to this through the sixth inning.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you just can't mix a messes all the time.

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Speaker 3: Tell me. I agree, But that's the point.

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Speaker 4: I just don't know that they have the arm or

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Speaker 4: arms to come back from a two zero deficit. I

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Speaker 4: think they'll hit more, although the Brewers are in pretty

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Speaker 4: good shape pitching wise right now too. They were able

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Speaker 4: to get through the yesterday's game with the bullpen usage

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Speaker 4: like they did, so it's gonna be It's very unlikely.

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Speaker 4: And then basically this primarily on the advantage of the

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Speaker 4: Brewers I think have over the Cubs on the mound.

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Speaker 4: You know, the team's on the field. I mean, the

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Speaker 4: Cubs are very capable of just blowing it up offensively.

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Speaker 4: They're just gonna have to get their guys going too. Overall,

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Speaker 4: but the unlikely component for me, just to sum it up,

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Speaker 4: is the fact that I don't think the Cubs starting

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Speaker 4: pitching or pitching in general, is good enough to win

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Speaker 4: three in a row versus the Brewers.

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Speaker 1: Right now, and let's talk about like the perfect Pat

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Speaker 1: Murphy ploy in that game, as a perfect Brewers ploy

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Speaker 1: to have Quinn Priester going through his entire warm up

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Speaker 1: before the game as a decoy that he's going to

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Speaker 1: be the bulk guy.

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Speaker 2: Behind Ashby, the left handed starter.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this matter to the Chicago Cubs,

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Speaker 2: but they did have Quinn Priester go through his entire

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Speaker 2: routine to make them think that he was going to

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Speaker 2: be the next guy in of course he wasn't. And

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Speaker 2: Priester now is lined up.

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Speaker 1: And could pitch in Game number three, And he actually

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Speaker 1: threw his full bullpen after the game at eleven thirty

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Speaker 1: at night. He said he'd never thrown a bullpen that

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Speaker 1: late before. That's such a Murph thing to do, It's

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Speaker 1: such a Brewers thing to do where the players just

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Speaker 1: totally buy into it. Nobody's gonna say why are we

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Speaker 1: doing this? Or I can't believe I'm doing this. They

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Speaker 1: just say, Okay, I'll do it. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: had any effect on the game, Joe, but I love

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Speaker 1: the fact that Murph things out of the box, and

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Speaker 1: most especially that his players go along with whatever he suggests.

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Speaker 4: So, okay, he had a full bullpen yesterday. He gets

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Speaker 4: up and does the whole thing and throws at the

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Speaker 4: end of the game. They have today off, correct, Yes,

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Speaker 4: so it almost sounds like he's not going to pitch

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Speaker 4: the next game, but the game after.

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Speaker 1: That for Yeah, I'm not sure who he's got lined

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Speaker 1: up for three, but he could pitch mem in four.

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Speaker 2: You never know what the Brewers. It's like they're almost

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Speaker 2: interchangeable parts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing. So is prol to have enough

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Speaker 4: rest to come back on Thursday? I think he does

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Speaker 4: one two. Yeah, So that's what they may be doing

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Speaker 4: right there, and then push Priester back to the to

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Speaker 4: the Friday game if possible, or is a Thursday game.

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Speaker 4: Excuse me, that might be what they're gonna end up doing.

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Speaker 4: They just want to get it over with, get Parlta

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Speaker 4: out there, get it over with, and then really get

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Speaker 4: their risk going to the next round. Because I'm just saying,

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Speaker 4: if you had a full bullpen yesterday and almost like

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Speaker 4: you need two days before you're going to actually start

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Speaker 4: in the game as opposed to day off and then start.

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Speaker 3: So if you through that much, it's just hard.

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Speaker 4: Unless that's his regular routine and I don't know that,

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Speaker 4: but to pitch with a day off and then pitch

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Speaker 4: start unlikely. It almost sounds like they're going to go

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Speaker 4: with Peralta in the next game and then keep Priester

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Speaker 4: for the one after that.

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Speaker 1: But if you're Craig Counsel and you see Priest going

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Speaker 1: through this before the game, like okay, that's the next

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Speaker 1: guy in, doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it matters.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I'm I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: The charade of this is just to me as humorous

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Speaker 1: more than anything.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's a very I mean, if in fact it

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Speaker 4: was Murch's idea, that's very collegiate. I mean, back in

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Speaker 4: the day, Jim Brock would have done something like that

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Speaker 4: at ASU and a heartbeat. All the history onics with

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Speaker 4: guys or warming up where somebody can't see you. They'd

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Speaker 4: have pictures warm up, understand, so you didn't know the

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Speaker 4: guy was warming up. That was part of the past

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Speaker 4: two It's just difficult to hide from cameras today. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if in fact that was part of it, it probably

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Speaker 4: was a little bit of a fun thing for the

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Speaker 4: Brewers to do because they knew that they weren't going

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Speaker 4: to use him yesterday and that they already had this

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Speaker 4: all mapped out. Obviously they did, so not a big deal.

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Speaker 4: It didn't really impact the Cubs at all. If somebody

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Speaker 4: makes that argument, I disagree.

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Speaker 1: Well, right now we are on course for another Brewers, Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: and LCS. We saw that I think it was back

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. It was a great series that would

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Speaker 1: be pretty cool. Not over yet, but commanding leads so

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Speaker 1: far for both the Dodgers and the Brewers.

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Speaker 2: How about the American League.

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Speaker 1: We'll dive into that right after this on the Book

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Speaker 1: of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you caught a bunch of the Yankees and

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Speaker 2: the Blue Jays in Toronto.

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Speaker 1: It's just been amazing to me the way Toronto has

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Speaker 1: hit the baseball.

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Speaker 2: It actually brought me back. I'm curious to see.

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Speaker 1: If you thought this, Joe, when you played the Yankees

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Speaker 1: as one of the Angels coaches in two thousand and two,

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Speaker 1: where it seemed like the hitters were just on everything,

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Speaker 1: did that.

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Speaker 3: Occur to you, Yeah, swarming offense.

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Speaker 4: I saw the swim. I saw that with them, and

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Speaker 4: I see it with the Brewers too. I thought that

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Speaker 4: the other night watching the first game against the Cubs,

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Speaker 4: when the Brewers just dismantled them just by moving the

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Speaker 4: ball constantly. And then the Blue Jays have got a

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Speaker 4: little bit of that DNA right now. Also we used

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Speaker 4: to I mean I was listening to the one game

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Speaker 4: because I was driving back from Philly.

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Speaker 3: But bat around the bat. They hit around the batting

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Speaker 3: older hit around.

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Speaker 4: And I know if you look back with the two

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Speaker 4: thousand and two Angels, my god, do we do that often?

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Speaker 4: And that's just moving the ball. I can't even tell

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Speaker 4: you that we accepted our walks. Is our guys just

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Speaker 4: like to swing the bat. We didn't strike out a lot,

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Speaker 4: we moved the baseball.

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Speaker 3: So yes, I thought about both teams.

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Speaker 4: I thought about the Brewers doing that also, and it

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Speaker 4: is It's very interesting the way the Blue Jays are

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Speaker 4: finally kind of achieving at the level you thought they

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Speaker 4: could potentially achieve that for a while, and they're doing it.

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Speaker 4: They're playing a complete game. They're playing a complete game.

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Speaker 4: Their defense has gotten better, everything's gotten better. They're just

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Speaker 4: more baseball efficient than I've seen.

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Speaker 3: In the past.

436
00:18:24,678 --> 00:18:26,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of that's been happening at home. They

437
00:18:26,598 --> 00:18:29,318
Speaker 1: definitely have a mojo working in their home ballpark. The

438
00:18:29,318 --> 00:18:31,158
Speaker 1: ballpark definitely plays to what they do well.

439
00:18:31,198 --> 00:18:32,238
Speaker 2: They put the ball in play.

440
00:18:32,358 --> 00:18:34,758
Speaker 1: I mean they strike out the least percentage wise in

441
00:18:34,798 --> 00:18:35,518
Speaker 1: the major leagues.

442
00:18:35,958 --> 00:18:37,678
Speaker 2: That turf is hard. You put on the ground, it's

443
00:18:37,678 --> 00:18:38,318
Speaker 2: going to get through.

444
00:18:38,598 --> 00:18:41,158
Speaker 1: And my goodness, they're hitting home runs one handed at

445
00:18:41,238 --> 00:18:43,238
Speaker 1: ninety three miles exit velocity.

446
00:18:43,398 --> 00:18:44,438
Speaker 2: I mean, what is going on?

447
00:18:45,518 --> 00:18:46,158
Speaker 3: I saw that.

448
00:18:46,238 --> 00:18:49,158
Speaker 4: I was That's that reminded me of playing in Boulder, Colorado.

449
00:18:49,718 --> 00:18:51,398
Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, just and the air is

450
00:18:51,438 --> 00:18:53,078
Speaker 4: not I mean, that's sea level up there.

451
00:18:53,198 --> 00:18:55,558
Speaker 1: Well, that's how good it's been going for Toronto. And

452
00:18:55,558 --> 00:18:57,838
Speaker 1: then of course you've got Trey ya Savage, the young

453
00:18:57,878 --> 00:19:00,118
Speaker 1: pitcher there. I mean, what a fine I mean, this

454
00:19:00,158 --> 00:19:02,918
Speaker 1: guy was drafted last year twenty twenty four and he's

455
00:19:02,958 --> 00:19:07,278
Speaker 1: got such a unique angle and everything he throws is unique. Right,

456
00:19:07,358 --> 00:19:10,238
Speaker 1: He's straight over the top, tall guy to begin with.

457
00:19:10,518 --> 00:19:12,998
Speaker 1: The ball's coming out of the sky, and he's got

458
00:19:13,038 --> 00:19:15,238
Speaker 1: a split which is absolutely nasty.

459
00:19:15,278 --> 00:19:16,918
Speaker 2: And he actually has a slider.

460
00:19:16,558 --> 00:19:19,238
Speaker 1: Which I've never heard of, Joe, which actually has screwball

461
00:19:19,278 --> 00:19:20,278
Speaker 1: action to it.

462
00:19:20,278 --> 00:19:23,158
Speaker 2: It actually works back at the armside, not to a.

463
00:19:23,118 --> 00:19:25,678
Speaker 3: Backup slider, the backup sider. Everybody's been wanting to do

464
00:19:25,718 --> 00:19:26,438
Speaker 3: that for years.

465
00:19:26,478 --> 00:19:26,958
Speaker 2: Crazy.

466
00:19:27,358 --> 00:19:29,758
Speaker 1: So if you're the Yankees, if you're anybody, and you're

467
00:19:29,798 --> 00:19:33,238
Speaker 1: facing this kid, and obviously you haven't seen him before,

468
00:19:33,598 --> 00:19:35,678
Speaker 1: and you've got to solve him in a postseason game,

469
00:19:35,878 --> 00:19:38,838
Speaker 1: getting essentially two looks at him, maybe a third look,

470
00:19:39,078 --> 00:19:40,078
Speaker 1: that's a tough task.

471
00:19:40,078 --> 00:19:41,358
Speaker 2: And the Yankees were not up to it.

472
00:19:41,398 --> 00:19:43,278
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought all along of this kid was

473
00:19:43,318 --> 00:19:44,918
Speaker 1: going to get the ball once I saw him pitch.

474
00:19:45,078 --> 00:19:48,318
Speaker 1: You go with stuff more than experience. You know, Schuzer basket.

475
00:19:48,398 --> 00:19:50,718
Speaker 1: These guys get great to have. But when I see

476
00:19:50,758 --> 00:19:53,038
Speaker 1: a guy throw like that, Joe, I gotta trust the stuff,

477
00:19:53,158 --> 00:19:54,918
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they know the makeup as well.

478
00:19:54,998 --> 00:19:56,078
Speaker 2: We're in a big spot.

479
00:19:56,198 --> 00:19:57,558
Speaker 1: You know he's going to be fine, just the way

480
00:19:57,558 --> 00:20:00,358
Speaker 1: the Yankees did with Cam Schlitzler elimination game against the

481
00:20:00,358 --> 00:20:03,238
Speaker 1: Red Sox. Trust the stuff experience, Yeah, I love it,

482
00:20:03,318 --> 00:20:05,358
Speaker 1: but I want the stuff and this kid's got it.

483
00:20:05,398 --> 00:20:05,558
Speaker 3: Well.

484
00:20:05,558 --> 00:20:08,238
Speaker 4: I was going off of your scouting experience because you

485
00:20:08,238 --> 00:20:10,358
Speaker 4: were really talking him up from the last time you

486
00:20:10,358 --> 00:20:12,198
Speaker 4: saw him, and I had not seen him yet. Wow,

487
00:20:13,398 --> 00:20:15,558
Speaker 4: I watched. I rewatched the video because I wanted to

488
00:20:15,598 --> 00:20:16,958
Speaker 4: see all that. It's all of that.

489
00:20:17,038 --> 00:20:18,758
Speaker 3: Plus he's from Pottsdown, Pennsylvania.

490
00:20:18,798 --> 00:20:20,798
Speaker 4: How about that right down the street on top of

491
00:20:21,118 --> 00:20:23,078
Speaker 4: his savage he's you know, the some kind of a

492
00:20:23,118 --> 00:20:26,158
Speaker 4: European name. Jim Bouten was what I thought of. I

493
00:20:26,198 --> 00:20:28,878
Speaker 4: thought of Jim Bowten, the way he came over the top.

494
00:20:29,158 --> 00:20:30,238
Speaker 3: Bountain's hat would fly off.

495
00:20:30,238 --> 00:20:32,198
Speaker 4: Buntain didn't have that kind of a split, but that

496
00:20:32,318 --> 00:20:35,758
Speaker 4: kind of high energy delivery from over the top. And

497
00:20:35,798 --> 00:20:38,158
Speaker 4: then I had a guy we've talked about, Jeff Neeman six'.

498
00:20:38,358 --> 00:20:40,838
Speaker 4: Nine and then you can think Of Chris young THE

499
00:20:40,918 --> 00:20:45,318
Speaker 4: gm now with The. Rangers this high downward angle. Stuff,

500
00:20:45,638 --> 00:20:47,238
Speaker 4: see for, Me i've always talked to guys AND i

501
00:20:47,278 --> 00:20:50,278
Speaker 4: always even said in postgame press, conferences down angle equals.

502
00:20:50,358 --> 00:20:53,278
Speaker 4: Movement to, me if you could just imagine when when

503
00:20:53,278 --> 00:20:55,278
Speaker 4: the ball is coming from such a high angle down

504
00:20:55,318 --> 00:20:57,118
Speaker 4: the point of intersection for the bat and the ball

505
00:20:57,158 --> 00:20:59,598
Speaker 4: BECOMES i, think more. Difficult it's just it's not, flat

506
00:20:59,678 --> 00:21:02,918
Speaker 4: it's it's directly down and you're again with the upmore

507
00:21:02,958 --> 00:21:04,798
Speaker 4: of the. UPSWING i think that there's a chance with,

508
00:21:04,838 --> 00:21:06,678
Speaker 4: that but it's still more difficult to really.

509
00:21:07,438 --> 00:21:08,278
Speaker 3: Pinpoint and then.

510
00:21:08,158 --> 00:21:10,958
Speaker 4: On top of, that the split, WELL i, mean, LISTEN

511
00:21:11,118 --> 00:21:14,358
Speaker 4: i don't know that was a real. SPLIT i don't

512
00:21:14,358 --> 00:21:16,598
Speaker 4: know what he's calling that, thing but that was almost

513
00:21:16,678 --> 00:21:19,478
Speaker 4: like Watching Brian, harvey And harve had a pretty high delivery,

514
00:21:19,558 --> 00:21:22,318
Speaker 4: also And Johnny, orton we'll be blocking that stuff in the.

515
00:21:22,358 --> 00:21:24,438
Speaker 4: DIRT i don't know how long he's been throwing. THAT

516
00:21:24,718 --> 00:21:27,558
Speaker 4: i think it's a tremendous. Pitch my only concern always

517
00:21:27,718 --> 00:21:31,598
Speaker 4: was with that pitch and there's nothing behind your fingers

518
00:21:31,598 --> 00:21:33,758
Speaker 4: are off to the side of the. Ball, YEAH i

519
00:21:33,878 --> 00:21:36,678
Speaker 4: just always had an uncomfortable feeling with guys hurting their.

520
00:21:36,798 --> 00:21:39,358
Speaker 4: Arms and somebody might argue against, that but it was

521
00:21:39,398 --> 00:21:42,478
Speaker 4: my experience in the minor. Leagues but right, now that

522
00:21:42,518 --> 00:21:44,278
Speaker 4: pitch is one of the best in the. Game right,

523
00:21:44,278 --> 00:21:47,678
Speaker 4: now that pitch is unhittable and lefties have no. CHANCE i,

524
00:21:47,678 --> 00:21:50,078
Speaker 4: mean the left of that ball goes down and fades.

525
00:21:50,118 --> 00:21:53,038
Speaker 4: Away then he just has to pop an elevated, fastball

526
00:21:53,278 --> 00:21:55,518
Speaker 4: and he's pretty much in controlling. Command on top of,

527
00:21:55,518 --> 00:21:59,398
Speaker 4: that he suggested the guy's. Makeup heard him speak. Afterwards

528
00:21:59,438 --> 00:22:02,718
Speaker 4: pretty confident young, Man very confident young. Man he's got

529
00:22:02,718 --> 00:22:05,118
Speaker 4: it going on right. Now we'll see what happens, if in,

530
00:22:05,118 --> 00:22:07,238
Speaker 4: fact somebody pins his ears back a little. Bit but,

531
00:22:07,918 --> 00:22:09,798
Speaker 4: THANG i mean the way he's, feeling the way he's,

532
00:22:09,798 --> 00:22:13,518
Speaker 4: throwing the combination of, pitches the angle, itself nobody sees.

533
00:22:13,558 --> 00:22:16,758
Speaker 4: That nobody really encourages that high. Angle the angle has

534
00:22:16,798 --> 00:22:20,078
Speaker 4: been primarily more like. Dropped everybody wants to drop the

535
00:22:20,198 --> 00:22:22,918
Speaker 4: arm slot to elevate the, ball and this one's getting

536
00:22:22,918 --> 00:22:24,078
Speaker 4: the arm up to get the ball.

537
00:22:24,118 --> 00:22:24,358
Speaker 3: Down.

538
00:22:24,598 --> 00:22:27,718
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, points you're, right And i've checked.

539
00:22:27,718 --> 00:22:30,158
Speaker 1: This the average release point for a major league pitcher

540
00:22:30,158 --> 00:22:32,798
Speaker 1: has gone down and like every year for the last

541
00:22:32,798 --> 00:22:36,838
Speaker 1: four or five, years and people love that, upshoot so to.

542
00:22:36,878 --> 00:22:40,478
Speaker 1: Speak the attack, angle the low release, point velocity to

543
00:22:40,518 --> 00:22:42,678
Speaker 1: the high point of the strike. Zone there's been a

544
00:22:42,678 --> 00:22:45,798
Speaker 1: lot of emphasis on, that so kind of old school

545
00:22:45,878 --> 00:22:49,038
Speaker 1: over the, top you, Know Jim, palmer deliveries have kind

546
00:22:49,038 --> 00:22:51,838
Speaker 1: of faded, away, Right how many times did a pitching

547
00:22:51,838 --> 00:22:53,358
Speaker 1: coach used to, say get on top of the, ball

548
00:22:53,438 --> 00:22:54,078
Speaker 1: get on top of the.

549
00:22:54,078 --> 00:22:55,478
Speaker 2: BALL i don't really teach that.

550
00:22:55,518 --> 00:22:57,838
Speaker 1: ANYMORE i actually think getting on top of the ball

551
00:22:57,918 --> 00:23:00,438
Speaker 1: like that is actually a little more stressful on the.

552
00:23:00,598 --> 00:23:02,718
Speaker 1: ARM i always tell, people just take a ten pound

553
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:05,438
Speaker 1: weight or a five pound, weight hold it straight over your,

554
00:23:05,478 --> 00:23:07,758
Speaker 1: head but now hold it off to the side where

555
00:23:07,758 --> 00:23:08,798
Speaker 1: your elbow's bent a little.

556
00:23:08,798 --> 00:23:09,398
Speaker 2: Bit which one's.

557
00:23:09,438 --> 00:23:11,918
Speaker 1: Easier it's a lot easier off to the side with

558
00:23:11,918 --> 00:23:14,038
Speaker 1: your elbow ben a little bit straight over the, top

559
00:23:14,118 --> 00:23:16,118
Speaker 1: the Way Michael waka was early on in his.

560
00:23:16,158 --> 00:23:19,078
Speaker 2: Career it can be. Rough but you make a great, Point,

561
00:23:19,158 --> 00:23:23,238
Speaker 2: joe that because you see fewer of, those the deception

562
00:23:23,718 --> 00:23:25,478
Speaker 2: is even greater now than it would have been ten

563
00:23:25,558 --> 00:23:26,758
Speaker 2: years ago because it is so.

564
00:23:26,878 --> 00:23:29,478
Speaker 1: Unusual, LISTEN i don't know what happens when he or

565
00:23:29,518 --> 00:23:32,358
Speaker 1: if he does get, hit BUT i look around, Also,

566
00:23:32,518 --> 00:23:34,678
Speaker 1: joe AND i see it's almost Like Roger craig in

567
00:23:34,678 --> 00:23:37,438
Speaker 1: the nineteen. Eighties the split is coming. BACK i, mean

568
00:23:37,678 --> 00:23:40,078
Speaker 1: whether it's asak at his. Split you're going to See

569
00:23:40,118 --> 00:23:44,438
Speaker 1: Logan gilbert In Alds game three For, seattle probably the

570
00:23:44,558 --> 00:23:47,438
Speaker 1: nastiest split in all of, baseball which is saying something

571
00:23:48,078 --> 00:23:52,238
Speaker 1: we've seen that Splits finnegan And montero in The tigers.

572
00:23:52,238 --> 00:23:55,838
Speaker 1: Bullpen Aj hinch wants to keep throwing splits At rodriguez

573
00:23:55,878 --> 00:23:58,798
Speaker 1: and Cal rawley The. Mariners the split is. BACK i,

574
00:23:58,878 --> 00:24:01,118
Speaker 1: mean it's become a weapon in the game. Too i'm

575
00:24:01,118 --> 00:24:03,438
Speaker 1: not sure why that. Is maybe it's, analytics maybe it's.

576
00:24:03,478 --> 00:24:06,398
Speaker 1: TECHNOLOGY i know that guys that don't throw a change

577
00:24:06,478 --> 00:24:08,798
Speaker 1: up well a lot of times will try the, split

578
00:24:09,038 --> 00:24:11,238
Speaker 1: and we're seeing a lot more splits at Least i'm

579
00:24:11,278 --> 00:24:11,918
Speaker 1: noticing that in the.

580
00:24:11,918 --> 00:24:14,838
Speaker 2: Postseason, Yeah i've always that was part of the gig

581
00:24:14,878 --> 00:24:15,158
Speaker 2: too of the.

582
00:24:15,238 --> 00:24:18,078
Speaker 4: Landscape when a pitcher cannot throw more of a conventional

583
00:24:18,158 --> 00:24:19,958
Speaker 4: kind of off speed, pitch you would always try to

584
00:24:19,998 --> 00:24:21,918
Speaker 4: do give them a different, grip try something new or.

585
00:24:21,918 --> 00:24:24,758
Speaker 3: Different and, AGAIN i could name.

586
00:24:25,358 --> 00:24:27,758
Speaker 4: A pitcher, GOSH i can't name him right, now but

587
00:24:27,758 --> 00:24:30,878
Speaker 4: as a young man out of A, Nacadosius texas right

588
00:24:30,918 --> 00:24:33,958
Speaker 4: hander THAT i had in a ball with The angels

589
00:24:33,998 --> 00:24:36,238
Speaker 4: and great, arm like mid nineties. Arm but it wanted

590
00:24:36,278 --> 00:24:38,758
Speaker 4: to throw a split so much as a youngster that

591
00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:41,758
Speaker 4: eventually he loses fastball the veteran player on the other,

592
00:24:41,798 --> 00:24:44,278
Speaker 4: end LIKE i just, suggested once you are at that

593
00:24:44,438 --> 00:24:46,718
Speaker 4: waterloo moment where you have to be creative and come

594
00:24:46,758 --> 00:24:49,758
Speaker 4: up with something, else that's where a SPLIT i think

595
00:24:49,878 --> 00:24:52,158
Speaker 4: needs to be introduced or should be introduced if you

596
00:24:52,198 --> 00:24:55,118
Speaker 4: cannot really do the conventional other break the. BALL i,

597
00:24:55,158 --> 00:24:57,798
Speaker 4: love change of. Curveball that's to my two favorite other.

598
00:24:57,878 --> 00:25:00,958
Speaker 4: Pitches and then if it needs to become the, slider

599
00:25:01,078 --> 00:25:03,558
Speaker 4: cut or whatever you got to do, THAT i just

600
00:25:03,558 --> 00:25:06,198
Speaker 4: maybe throw a strike on occasion BECAUSE i can't command

601
00:25:06,198 --> 00:25:06,558
Speaker 4: these other.

602
00:25:06,598 --> 00:25:08,238
Speaker 3: Things but if you can't.

603
00:25:08,238 --> 00:25:10,758
Speaker 4: Don't have the propensity or the ability to throw the

604
00:25:11,478 --> 00:25:13,198
Speaker 4: have your arm and wrist work in a way that

605
00:25:13,238 --> 00:25:15,638
Speaker 4: you could spin the, baseball curve it or the. Field

606
00:25:15,678 --> 00:25:17,918
Speaker 4: the grip of the change up just doesn't make any.

607
00:25:17,958 --> 00:25:20,238
Speaker 4: Sense then you just split the fingers and throw it

608
00:25:20,558 --> 00:25:22,798
Speaker 4: as hard as you can pretty, much and just let

609
00:25:22,878 --> 00:25:25,118
Speaker 4: the natural reaction of the ball coming out tumbly out

610
00:25:25,158 --> 00:25:26,718
Speaker 4: of your hand be that pitch for.

611
00:25:26,798 --> 00:25:28,438
Speaker 3: You so, again.

612
00:25:28,238 --> 00:25:31,318
Speaker 4: When you run out of options and you've tried everything

613
00:25:31,358 --> 00:25:33,638
Speaker 4: else with a young pitcher in an attempt to give

614
00:25:33,678 --> 00:25:36,318
Speaker 4: him something other than a fastball because the other stuff

615
00:25:36,358 --> 00:25:37,358
Speaker 4: just doesn't form up for.

616
00:25:37,478 --> 00:25:40,198
Speaker 3: Him that's WHEN i THINK i would add these other.

617
00:25:40,278 --> 00:25:43,238
Speaker 4: Pitches, however last, point when you come out OF asu

618
00:25:43,318 --> 00:25:46,118
Speaker 4: Or mesa community college wherever it might, be the first

619
00:25:46,118 --> 00:25:48,318
Speaker 4: THING i wanted to be checked on with in the

620
00:25:48,398 --> 00:25:51,198
Speaker 4: rookie ball would be does he have a change? Up

621
00:25:51,238 --> 00:25:52,798
Speaker 4: and if he doesn't have a change, up just try

622
00:25:52,798 --> 00:25:54,478
Speaker 4: to give him a change up grip and.

623
00:25:54,518 --> 00:25:56,878
Speaker 3: Let him just work on throwing a change.

624
00:25:56,958 --> 00:25:59,358
Speaker 4: Up if he doesn't have a, curveball just give him

625
00:25:59,398 --> 00:26:02,358
Speaker 4: like a curveball thing, grip some instruction on the, side

626
00:26:02,638 --> 00:26:04,158
Speaker 4: and he doesn't have to bring it into the aim.

627
00:26:04,198 --> 00:26:07,278
Speaker 4: Yet but just introduce him to, this because we're always

628
00:26:07,358 --> 00:26:10,918
Speaker 4: very aware of young guys coming into an your. Organization

629
00:26:11,318 --> 00:26:13,198
Speaker 4: let him, pitch let him, play let, him let him

630
00:26:13,198 --> 00:26:14,798
Speaker 4: show what he's what he's got based on what the

631
00:26:14,838 --> 00:26:17,758
Speaker 4: scout had, seen and at the point where he starts

632
00:26:17,798 --> 00:26:20,718
Speaker 4: to meet, failure that's when you introduce. Things, HOWEVER i

633
00:26:20,878 --> 00:26:23,438
Speaker 4: just always thought it'd be wise if he doesn't throw

634
00:26:23,478 --> 00:26:25,118
Speaker 4: a change of give him a grip to play with.

635
00:26:25,158 --> 00:26:27,318
Speaker 4: Her just have him understand, it and if he can't

636
00:26:27,318 --> 00:26:30,038
Speaker 4: spin a ball just even on the sidelines practice soft.

637
00:26:30,078 --> 00:26:32,878
Speaker 4: Blackground just show him how to start spinning, it because

638
00:26:32,918 --> 00:26:35,118
Speaker 4: at some, point if you do meet that waterloo, moment

639
00:26:35,398 --> 00:26:36,318
Speaker 4: you have to go to something.

640
00:26:36,318 --> 00:26:39,078
Speaker 1: Else i'm glad you brought that up BECAUSE i had

641
00:26:39,078 --> 00:26:41,998
Speaker 1: a conversation With Chris, fetter The tiger's pitching, coach about.

642
00:26:42,038 --> 00:26:44,918
Speaker 1: This it's fascinating to me how how much the game

643
00:26:45,078 --> 00:26:47,758
Speaker 1: changed once they were able to track how a baseball

644
00:26:47,918 --> 00:26:51,038
Speaker 1: spins and the path the ball. Takes you, know the

645
00:26:51,358 --> 00:26:54,918
Speaker 1: high speed, cameras track, man rep, sodos all those. THINGS i, Think,

646
00:26:54,998 --> 00:26:57,198
Speaker 1: joe we talked about right handed and left handed. Pitchers

647
00:26:57,278 --> 00:26:59,838
Speaker 1: right and there are some guys who pronate well and

648
00:26:59,878 --> 00:27:04,518
Speaker 1: some guys are. Supernaters they basically fall into either categor to,

649
00:27:04,638 --> 00:27:07,918
Speaker 1: generalize and you, know for the guys who don't really

650
00:27:07,958 --> 00:27:10,798
Speaker 1: pronate the wrist, well it's a hard. Time it's hard

651
00:27:10,798 --> 00:27:12,358
Speaker 1: for them to throw a change. Up you, know the

652
00:27:12,398 --> 00:27:14,918
Speaker 1: guys who are real big souperinninaterors hard for them to

653
00:27:14,918 --> 00:27:15,478
Speaker 1: throw a change.

654
00:27:15,518 --> 00:27:15,678
Speaker 4: Up.

655
00:27:15,998 --> 00:27:18,678
Speaker 1: Well in the, past you kind of forced it on the,

656
00:27:18,678 --> 00:27:20,398
Speaker 1: guy like you, said try to work with a.

657
00:27:20,438 --> 00:27:22,198
Speaker 2: Grip the hand just doesn't work that.

658
00:27:22,238 --> 00:27:26,558
Speaker 1: Way now we know that guys who don't pronate, well

659
00:27:26,718 --> 00:27:29,278
Speaker 1: there are ways to throw a change up now that

660
00:27:29,398 --> 00:27:32,518
Speaker 1: what they call this seam shifted. Wake essentially it's a

661
00:27:32,518 --> 00:27:35,158
Speaker 1: two seam change. Up And Trek scoobo is one of those.

662
00:27:35,198 --> 00:27:37,438
Speaker 1: Guys his career took off.

663
00:27:37,438 --> 00:27:39,838
Speaker 2: When he stopped trying to throw a traditional change.

664
00:27:39,878 --> 00:27:42,078
Speaker 1: Up and what they do is that it'll take a

665
00:27:42,078 --> 00:27:45,598
Speaker 1: baseball and they put a black dot on the side

666
00:27:45,598 --> 00:27:47,598
Speaker 1: of the, baseball kind of near the, horseshoe and when

667
00:27:47,598 --> 00:27:49,758
Speaker 1: he releases the, ball he wants to see that.

668
00:27:49,838 --> 00:27:53,798
Speaker 2: Dot stay right. There no, wobble you, know just stay in.

669
00:27:53,918 --> 00:27:54,958
Speaker 2: Line he told.

670
00:27:54,958 --> 00:27:56,998
Speaker 1: Me he equates it to if you're putting and you

671
00:27:57,038 --> 00:27:59,238
Speaker 1: put a line on your ball and you can see

672
00:27:59,278 --> 00:28:01,758
Speaker 1: the end over end. Spin you don't want, wobble you

673
00:28:01,758 --> 00:28:03,918
Speaker 1: don't certainly want side to. Side you just want to

674
00:28:03,958 --> 00:28:06,638
Speaker 1: see that good north south rotation on your golf ball

675
00:28:06,638 --> 00:28:07,198
Speaker 1: as you put it.

676
00:28:07,238 --> 00:28:08,878
Speaker 2: Cleanly same the idea with.

677
00:28:08,958 --> 00:28:11,758
Speaker 1: HIM i think it's fascinating to, Me joe that, guys

678
00:28:11,838 --> 00:28:14,078
Speaker 1: now you know you can find a, grip you can

679
00:28:14,078 --> 00:28:16,918
Speaker 1: find a pitch path with the help of, technology whereas

680
00:28:17,158 --> 00:28:20,358
Speaker 1: ten twenty years ago that was not even. Possible your

681
00:28:20,758 --> 00:28:23,358
Speaker 1: coaches were struggling to find ways to get guys to

682
00:28:23,358 --> 00:28:25,398
Speaker 1: get to dead in a Baseball, well.

683
00:28:25,638 --> 00:28:27,998
Speaker 4: Yeah And i'm going to take that a step further

684
00:28:27,998 --> 00:28:30,718
Speaker 4: because you're talking about. GRIP i was always fascinated by

685
00:28:30,758 --> 00:28:33,118
Speaker 4: good curveballs coming, up you, know as a young, scout

686
00:28:33,118 --> 00:28:35,558
Speaker 4: as a young. Instructor WHEN i saw a good breaking,

687
00:28:35,638 --> 00:28:38,438
Speaker 4: ball good curveball, Especially i'd asked the pitcher to show

688
00:28:38,478 --> 00:28:41,318
Speaker 4: me his, grip and like if You Bert blyleve And bert.

689
00:28:41,198 --> 00:28:43,958
Speaker 3: HAD i, mean the BEST i Think i've.

690
00:28:43,998 --> 00:28:47,238
Speaker 4: SEEN i mean in regards to shape break whatever, spin

691
00:28:47,318 --> 00:28:49,118
Speaker 4: he could hear, it but he put his thumb up

692
00:28:49,158 --> 00:28:51,518
Speaker 4: on the. Side Even Mike, butcher one of my pitching,

693
00:28:51,518 --> 00:28:55,118
Speaker 4: Coaches butch coming, up had a really really good. Curveball

694
00:28:55,198 --> 00:28:57,558
Speaker 4: so but showed me your grip thumb on the side

695
00:28:57,718 --> 00:29:00,718
Speaker 4: and not not necessarily tucked. Underneath SO i would always

696
00:29:00,798 --> 00:29:02,478
Speaker 4: look at grips WHEN i saw a really.

697
00:29:02,358 --> 00:29:03,638
Speaker 3: Good, PITCH i tell, you show me your.

698
00:29:03,638 --> 00:29:05,918
Speaker 4: Grip and my Point i'm trying to make is that

699
00:29:05,998 --> 00:29:08,438
Speaker 4: a lot of times the grip with something really good

700
00:29:08,718 --> 00:29:11,718
Speaker 4: would be some kind of something slightly, unconventional not the

701
00:29:11,758 --> 00:29:14,558
Speaker 4: spalding guide. Grip it's even like you take it to

702
00:29:14,598 --> 00:29:17,958
Speaker 4: the offensive side of. Things hitters the way they start their.

703
00:29:17,998 --> 00:29:20,638
Speaker 4: Stance whether you know we talk About Craig council being a,

704
00:29:20,678 --> 00:29:22,558
Speaker 4: manager now how he used to have the bad above

705
00:29:22,598 --> 00:29:25,798
Speaker 4: is said almost Like yescreemsky, did or Where Julio franco

706
00:29:26,238 --> 00:29:28,278
Speaker 4: used to bring it almost the tip of the batpointed

707
00:29:28,318 --> 00:29:30,278
Speaker 4: at the, picture you could go up and, Down Joe

708
00:29:30,278 --> 00:29:33,078
Speaker 4: demagio really spread, out Or Paul maltar without any movement.

709
00:29:33,118 --> 00:29:36,238
Speaker 4: Whatsoever the thing about all these guys THAT, i as

710
00:29:36,238 --> 00:29:39,798
Speaker 4: a hitting, coach would emphasize or look at a good

711
00:29:39,878 --> 00:29:42,198
Speaker 4: dude to like a, video at all the point at

712
00:29:42,278 --> 00:29:44,438
Speaker 4: which they can make, contact they would all look the.

713
00:29:44,478 --> 00:29:46,558
Speaker 4: Same and that would say you have to be able

714
00:29:46,598 --> 00:29:49,078
Speaker 4: to get there with at least an average velocity fastball

715
00:29:49,318 --> 00:29:51,678
Speaker 4: to get to look like this at the point of,

716
00:29:51,718 --> 00:29:54,398
Speaker 4: contact regardless of where you start. From so the same

717
00:29:54,438 --> 00:29:56,918
Speaker 4: thing with a picture with an unconventional grip or a different.

718
00:29:56,958 --> 00:29:58,158
Speaker 3: Grip if you took a.

719
00:29:58,118 --> 00:30:00,598
Speaker 4: Slow motion or a freeze action picture of all these

720
00:30:00,598 --> 00:30:02,838
Speaker 4: good dudes at the point of, release a lot of

721
00:30:02,878 --> 00:30:04,918
Speaker 4: them are going to look almost exactly the. Same hitters

722
00:30:04,918 --> 00:30:07,638
Speaker 4: will look almost exactly the, same regardless of how they

723
00:30:07,678 --> 00:30:10,158
Speaker 4: began this whole journey to get to that. Point so

724
00:30:10,198 --> 00:30:13,958
Speaker 4: this was SOMETHING i always non conventional batting, stances non

725
00:30:13,958 --> 00:30:17,118
Speaker 4: conventional grips on. Pitches Bob boone the, way it was

726
00:30:17,158 --> 00:30:18,798
Speaker 4: one of the first news to sit on the ground

727
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:21,198
Speaker 4: with his butt to receive the low. PITCH a lot

728
00:30:21,198 --> 00:30:25,038
Speaker 4: of greatness is involved in non convention where guys did

729
00:30:25,038 --> 00:30:27,158
Speaker 4: things a little bit differently that was comfortable to, them

730
00:30:27,158 --> 00:30:30,278
Speaker 4: but that's how their body. Worked so, anyway long answer

731
00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:33,478
Speaker 4: maybe not totally, relevant but it just made reminded me

732
00:30:33,518 --> 00:30:36,438
Speaker 4: of That I've i've always wanted to know WHEN i saw,

733
00:30:36,558 --> 00:30:39,518
Speaker 4: greatness show me how you're doing, this because most of

734
00:30:39,558 --> 00:30:40,638
Speaker 4: the time it wasn't.

735
00:30:40,678 --> 00:30:43,798
Speaker 1: TYPICAL i think the average van would be amazed at

736
00:30:43,838 --> 00:30:45,678
Speaker 1: the kind of brain power that's in a major league

737
00:30:45,678 --> 00:30:46,358
Speaker 1: clubhouse these.

738
00:30:46,478 --> 00:30:49,518
Speaker 2: Days you, know WHEN i was talking To Chris, fetder

739
00:30:49,598 --> 00:30:50,638
Speaker 2: he showed me this little.

740
00:30:50,678 --> 00:30:53,558
Speaker 1: Device you KNOW i mentioned marking your golf, ball, right you,

741
00:30:53,558 --> 00:30:57,038
Speaker 1: know they have these plastic little forms right where you

742
00:30:57,038 --> 00:30:59,438
Speaker 1: can just use your sharpie and put it inside the

743
00:30:59,798 --> 00:31:01,838
Speaker 1: track of where you want the line to. Go, well

744
00:31:01,878 --> 00:31:04,878
Speaker 1: they have these forms that they lock around a baseball

745
00:31:05,118 --> 00:31:07,398
Speaker 1: and they can draw this black dot AS i, mentioned

746
00:31:07,398 --> 00:31:09,878
Speaker 1: but the dot is actually different for each picture depending

747
00:31:09,878 --> 00:31:12,718
Speaker 1: on how they grip the. Baseball so it was actually

748
00:31:12,758 --> 00:31:16,158
Speaker 1: somebody in their run prevention department that went to a

749
00:31:16,198 --> 00:31:18,678
Speaker 1: THREE d printer and made these on their.

750
00:31:18,758 --> 00:31:21,798
Speaker 2: Own it's just amazing how, technical.

751
00:31:21,558 --> 00:31:25,638
Speaker 1: How precise things are these, days and trying to get

752
00:31:25,678 --> 00:31:27,518
Speaker 1: the ball to move the way that they wanted to.

753
00:31:27,558 --> 00:31:30,358
Speaker 1: Move it's just you'd be amazed at how scientific things have.

754
00:31:30,438 --> 00:31:32,718
Speaker 1: Gotten by the, Way, joe we didn't talk enough of.

755
00:31:32,758 --> 00:31:34,278
Speaker 1: ONE i want to get your take on The. YANKEES

756
00:31:34,318 --> 00:31:36,038
Speaker 1: i can't say The yankees are out of this series.

757
00:31:36,118 --> 00:31:38,278
Speaker 1: Yet they're just too. Talented and for, Me toronto is

758
00:31:38,558 --> 00:31:40,278
Speaker 1: a very different team on the road than they are at.

759
00:31:40,278 --> 00:31:41,558
Speaker 2: Home but tell me what you've.

760
00:31:41,598 --> 00:31:44,238
Speaker 1: SEEN i was shocked At Max freed through a clunker

761
00:31:44,478 --> 00:31:46,078
Speaker 1: in a big spot like that the way that he.

762
00:31:46,158 --> 00:31:47,638
Speaker 2: Did Maybe toronto is just that.

763
00:31:47,758 --> 00:31:50,158
Speaker 1: Hot but tell me what you saw out out Of

764
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:51,918
Speaker 1: New york and what their chances are going.

765
00:31:51,918 --> 00:31:53,198
Speaker 2: Forward, well it's.

766
00:31:53,878 --> 00:31:56,958
Speaker 3: JUDGE i, mean those, guys we've talked about.

767
00:31:56,998 --> 00:31:59,078
Speaker 4: It they got hit home runs to, win and they've

768
00:31:59,118 --> 00:32:00,838
Speaker 4: not been able to hit home runs at this particular,

769
00:32:00,918 --> 00:32:03,678
Speaker 4: JUNCTUIRT i mean that's still who they, are that is their,

770
00:32:04,438 --> 00:32:07,638
Speaker 4: yeah free the clutter with him was, Surprising although then

771
00:32:07,798 --> 00:32:10,158
Speaker 4: you're pitching against you, savage who's all of a sudden

772
00:32:10,198 --> 00:32:12,158
Speaker 4: like my, god who's better than him right?

773
00:32:12,198 --> 00:32:14,518
Speaker 3: Now so they've been matched up.

774
00:32:14,438 --> 00:32:17,278
Speaker 4: Well on the mound to the point where all of a,

775
00:32:17,318 --> 00:32:19,358
Speaker 4: sudden or not all of a. SUDDEN i, mean The

776
00:32:19,398 --> 00:32:22,678
Speaker 4: Blue jays have some pop, too but their offense has been,

777
00:32:22,758 --> 00:32:25,998
Speaker 4: steady where the The yankees has not been so, steady

778
00:32:26,518 --> 00:32:28,518
Speaker 4: and the ball over the wall has to. Happen if

779
00:32:28,518 --> 00:32:30,638
Speaker 4: The yankees are going to mount to comeback right, now

780
00:32:30,958 --> 00:32:32,918
Speaker 4: that's their. Game They're they're not going to all of

781
00:32:32,918 --> 00:32:35,598
Speaker 4: a sudden shift gears and move the baseball except their,

782
00:32:35,638 --> 00:32:39,318
Speaker 4: walks move, runners steel, bases although they, can but that's

783
00:32:39,318 --> 00:32:41,078
Speaker 4: not what they're trying to. Do they're trying to bludge in.

784
00:32:41,118 --> 00:32:43,478
Speaker 4: You so they have to bludge in you pitching, wise

785
00:32:43,518 --> 00:32:46,918
Speaker 4: they have to bludge in you, offensively And i'd say primarily.

786
00:32:46,958 --> 00:32:49,278
Speaker 4: Offensively because of, that the ball doesn't start going over the.

787
00:32:49,318 --> 00:32:52,358
Speaker 4: Wall If judge continues to have these you, know singles at,

788
00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:54,758
Speaker 4: bats driving run once in a, while but really not

789
00:32:54,838 --> 00:32:57,678
Speaker 4: looking like himself at the, plate that's the big difference for.

790
00:32:57,758 --> 00:33:00,158
Speaker 4: Me once if he were to just turn it, on

791
00:33:00,758 --> 00:33:02,518
Speaker 4: the rest of the guys will start feeding off.

792
00:33:02,558 --> 00:33:05,038
Speaker 3: That but it really does revolve. HIM i believe.

793
00:33:04,838 --> 00:33:06,998
Speaker 1: Agreed with that. Assessment we talk about it all the.

794
00:33:07,038 --> 00:33:09,158
Speaker 1: Time that's the way The yankees win. Games it's no.

795
00:33:09,238 --> 00:33:11,638
Speaker 1: DIFFERENT i thought they would get to The toronto bullpen

796
00:33:11,758 --> 00:33:14,598
Speaker 1: with their, power but they're losing the first half of the,

797
00:33:14,638 --> 00:33:16,718
Speaker 1: game so they've got to get a good start From

798
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:17,438
Speaker 1: rodn In game.

799
00:33:17,518 --> 00:33:19,238
Speaker 2: Three, hey let's take a quick.

800
00:33:19,278 --> 00:33:22,078
Speaker 1: BREAK i am at the series between The mariners and The.

801
00:33:22,118 --> 00:33:24,358
Speaker 1: Tigers it's been a real dandy so. Far a couple

802
00:33:24,358 --> 00:33:27,078
Speaker 1: of one run. Games we'll talk about. That what's gonna happen?

803
00:33:27,118 --> 00:33:41,918
Speaker 1: Next on The book Of. Joe welcome back to The

804
00:33:41,918 --> 00:33:44,798
Speaker 1: book Of joe podcast And. Joe i'm not sure how

805
00:33:44,878 --> 00:33:47,758
Speaker 1: much you've seen to This Seattle detroit, series but it's

806
00:33:47,838 --> 00:33:50,118
Speaker 1: kind of the series we. Expected these are two very

807
00:33:50,198 --> 00:33:54,838
Speaker 1: evenly matched. TEAMS i Think seattle has the better. ROSTER

808
00:33:55,358 --> 00:33:58,358
Speaker 1: i think there's far too many strikeouts in That Detroit tigers.

809
00:33:58,478 --> 00:34:01,958
Speaker 1: LINEUP i don't like watching the play offensive, baseball but

810
00:34:02,118 --> 00:34:04,398
Speaker 1: somehow they hang in. Games they have the best one

811
00:34:04,438 --> 00:34:07,318
Speaker 1: run record In Major League. Baseball tell me what you've

812
00:34:07,318 --> 00:34:09,238
Speaker 1: seen so far where you think this series is.

813
00:34:09,278 --> 00:34:09,558
Speaker 2: Headed.

814
00:34:09,678 --> 00:34:12,758
Speaker 4: WELL i have watched because my favorite reporters on the,

815
00:34:12,798 --> 00:34:13,438
Speaker 4: sidelines their.

816
00:34:13,438 --> 00:34:15,798
Speaker 3: OFFENSE i wonder what he has to. SAY i have stayed.

817
00:34:15,878 --> 00:34:16,198
Speaker 3: UP i have.

818
00:34:16,358 --> 00:34:19,718
Speaker 4: WATCHED i get a lot of Even steven stuff going on. Here,

819
00:34:19,758 --> 00:34:23,358
Speaker 4: actually just like the one teams who's gonna have that,

820
00:34:23,398 --> 00:34:26,238
Speaker 4: biginning who's going to really separate, Themselves and like you're, Saying,

821
00:34:26,278 --> 00:34:28,638
Speaker 4: detroit they are a couple guys that could pop. It,

822
00:34:29,158 --> 00:34:31,958
Speaker 4: Obviously carpenter can pop. It rale they could pop. It

823
00:34:32,078 --> 00:34:34,158
Speaker 4: BUT i think they're relying on their. Defense they're just

824
00:34:34,238 --> 00:34:37,918
Speaker 4: content relying on run prevention a little bit BECAUSE i

825
00:34:37,958 --> 00:34:39,598
Speaker 4: don't know how much faith they have in all, this

826
00:34:39,718 --> 00:34:42,358
Speaker 4: because of all the swing and. MISS i think that's

827
00:34:42,478 --> 00:34:45,158
Speaker 4: exemplified by the fact That hobby's starting a. SHORTSTOP i,

828
00:34:45,158 --> 00:34:48,118
Speaker 4: Mean hobby still moving the ball on. Occasion he's doing.

829
00:34:48,158 --> 00:34:51,318
Speaker 4: This But i've always thought with The Chicago, cubs we

830
00:34:51,318 --> 00:34:53,038
Speaker 4: were a better team when he was on the. Field

831
00:34:53,198 --> 00:34:55,918
Speaker 4: he just does things out there on, defense whether it's a,

832
00:34:55,958 --> 00:34:58,038
Speaker 4: tag whether it's a, play whether it's, ahead he played.

833
00:34:58,078 --> 00:35:00,478
Speaker 4: That you just there's a commas about his game, Also

834
00:35:00,518 --> 00:35:02,758
Speaker 4: SO i just don't know how much they believe at

835
00:35:02,758 --> 00:35:04,998
Speaker 4: this point that they just got they have to win

836
00:35:05,038 --> 00:35:08,158
Speaker 4: one run. Games they we're not going to beat you up,

837
00:35:08,198 --> 00:35:10,638
Speaker 4: offensively so we have to do. That on the other,

838
00:35:10,678 --> 00:35:13,238
Speaker 4: hand The mariners of the group that can really break

839
00:35:13,238 --> 00:35:16,038
Speaker 4: out at any. Time Although i've been watching the way

840
00:35:16,078 --> 00:35:19,718
Speaker 4: they've been pitching at, him and you're right regarding the

841
00:35:19,798 --> 00:35:22,958
Speaker 4: style of pitching and just not Giving rawley that. Pitch

842
00:35:23,518 --> 00:35:27,718
Speaker 4: they're doing a really good job Against. Suarez rodriguez obviously

843
00:35:27,838 --> 00:35:31,118
Speaker 4: is really a. Sending, AGAIN i Like. Naylor naylor's the

844
00:35:31,158 --> 00:35:34,198
Speaker 4: guy THAT i like because he's just Like Johnny, cruck you.

845
00:35:34,198 --> 00:35:36,638
Speaker 4: KNOW i think he goes out there and he just

846
00:35:36,678 --> 00:35:40,438
Speaker 4: plays baseball and he's always dangerous because he doesn't overthink.

847
00:35:40,478 --> 00:35:44,718
Speaker 4: It SO i like them Offensively. SEATTLE i Think detroit is,

848
00:35:44,718 --> 00:35:47,118
Speaker 4: relying LIKE i, said hopefully on pitching and, defense SO

849
00:35:47,318 --> 00:35:49,198
Speaker 4: i think you see a lot of the same les

850
00:35:49,238 --> 00:35:51,758
Speaker 4: The taggers pitchers start making some mistakes and the ball

851
00:35:51,798 --> 00:35:54,358
Speaker 4: goes over the. Wall For, SEATTLE i think that would

852
00:35:54,398 --> 00:35:56,838
Speaker 4: be the, separator but otherwise you still might see three

853
00:35:56,958 --> 00:35:58,118
Speaker 4: two four three two.

854
00:35:58,238 --> 00:36:01,878
Speaker 1: One, Yeah and by the, Way Josh naylor not Playing game.

855
00:36:02,038 --> 00:36:05,558
Speaker 1: Three he went home To, arizona his wife expecting their first,

856
00:36:05,638 --> 00:36:08,798
Speaker 1: child so he's on the paternity. List we'll see if

857
00:36:08,838 --> 00:36:11,278
Speaker 1: he's back For game four or. Not that's the big.

858
00:36:11,318 --> 00:36:14,398
Speaker 1: Losses you Mentioned Luke, raley WHO i, like he's not

859
00:36:14,558 --> 00:36:16,998
Speaker 1: nailor likely to be at first base against right handed.

860
00:36:16,998 --> 00:36:20,558
Speaker 1: Pitching you Mentioned carpenter AND i actually said this on

861
00:36:20,598 --> 00:36:23,558
Speaker 1: the air before it actually. Happened there's no way with

862
00:36:23,638 --> 00:36:26,038
Speaker 1: a base open and two outs you can let Carry

863
00:36:26,078 --> 00:36:28,478
Speaker 1: carpenter beat you with a high. Fastball with a left

864
00:36:28,478 --> 00:36:31,478
Speaker 1: hander in the, bullpen base, open two, outs you, know

865
00:36:31,598 --> 00:36:32,238
Speaker 1: just spin the.

866
00:36:32,198 --> 00:36:32,998
Speaker 2: Ball get him to.

867
00:36:33,078 --> 00:36:37,438
Speaker 1: Chase when you start the, game you circle Carry carpenter

868
00:36:37,878 --> 00:36:42,478
Speaker 1: high fastball as the one path YOU mu must avoid

869
00:36:42,758 --> 00:36:43,278
Speaker 1: the fact That.

870
00:36:43,318 --> 00:36:44,598
Speaker 2: Dan wilson allowed that to.

871
00:36:44,638 --> 00:36:47,358
Speaker 1: HAPPEN i, mean that was a huge mistake by guy

872
00:36:47,398 --> 00:36:49,478
Speaker 1: managing his first postseason.

873
00:36:49,558 --> 00:36:51,998
Speaker 2: Game now next, day what did he. Do he brought it.

874
00:36:52,038 --> 00:36:54,518
Speaker 2: In the lefty pitched to Carry, carpenter so he learned from.

875
00:36:54,558 --> 00:36:57,758
Speaker 1: IT i thought that was a massive, mistake especially With

876
00:36:57,878 --> 00:37:00,638
Speaker 1: Riley green behind, him a guy who just does not

877
00:37:00,838 --> 00:37:03,318
Speaker 1: handle the ball above his, Waist and that was What

878
00:37:03,518 --> 00:37:05,798
Speaker 1: George kirby was. Throwing you, know if you want to

879
00:37:05,878 --> 00:37:08,798
Speaker 1: Leave kirby in you trust, him, fine but you can't

880
00:37:08,838 --> 00:37:10,158
Speaker 1: throw high fastballs To.

881
00:37:10,238 --> 00:37:14,078
Speaker 2: Carpenter you can To Riley. Green and you, KNOW.

882
00:37:14,078 --> 00:37:16,438
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't the deciding blow in the, game

883
00:37:16,518 --> 00:37:18,398
Speaker 1: but it took away the lead at that. Point so

884
00:37:18,558 --> 00:37:21,558
Speaker 1: good On Dan wilson that he made the. Adjustment he's

885
00:37:21,598 --> 00:37:23,878
Speaker 1: got a real weapon and Gave spire right. There it

886
00:37:23,918 --> 00:37:26,318
Speaker 1: doesn't look like The tigers know what to do with.

887
00:37:26,398 --> 00:37:29,038
Speaker 1: Him he's tough on, righty's but he's especially tough on,

888
00:37:29,158 --> 00:37:31,518
Speaker 1: lefties AND. A. J hinch is always going to have

889
00:37:31,558 --> 00:37:35,318
Speaker 1: to make that decision on that pocket there Of carpenter And,

890
00:37:35,398 --> 00:37:37,998
Speaker 1: green which is where he needs to find. Power by the,

891
00:37:37,998 --> 00:37:40,278
Speaker 1: WAY i, mean there's not much other in the. Lineup

892
00:37:40,318 --> 00:37:41,918
Speaker 1: The spire is going to see them every game of

893
00:37:41,958 --> 00:37:42,758
Speaker 1: the series in a key.

894
00:37:42,798 --> 00:37:45,638
Speaker 3: Spot, Now, well the pitch To carpenter hit it almost

895
00:37:45,638 --> 00:37:46,398
Speaker 3: looked to me like it was.

896
00:37:46,438 --> 00:37:48,798
Speaker 4: INTENTIONAL i was. Watching that didn't look like he was

897
00:37:48,798 --> 00:37:51,998
Speaker 4: trying to elevate right. There sometimes you, Try, yeah sometimes

898
00:37:51,998 --> 00:37:54,438
Speaker 4: you have the right intent and the wrong, Result And

899
00:37:54,438 --> 00:37:56,158
Speaker 4: i'm good with. That but that's the kind of stuff

900
00:37:56,158 --> 00:37:58,278
Speaker 4: that would drive me nuts in the dugout BECAUSE i

901
00:37:58,278 --> 00:38:01,158
Speaker 4: would know that you, know you know where this guy's

902
00:38:01,198 --> 00:38:04,278
Speaker 4: hot zone. Is you, know like you, said who's On you,

903
00:38:04,318 --> 00:38:05,998
Speaker 4: know that's a better, matchup you, know you, know you,

904
00:38:06,118 --> 00:38:08,358
Speaker 4: know and then you make that kind of, mistake and

905
00:38:08,398 --> 00:38:12,558
Speaker 4: that's really. Wow i'd get upset. OFTEN i usually get

906
00:38:12,638 --> 00:38:15,798
Speaker 4: upset when miss. Signs miss signs would really bother me a,

907
00:38:15,878 --> 00:38:19,478
Speaker 4: lot offensively defensive if we miss signs because you went

908
00:38:19,518 --> 00:38:22,158
Speaker 4: over them so, often that would be the one thing

909
00:38:22,278 --> 00:38:23,358
Speaker 4: that would unnerve.

910
00:38:23,118 --> 00:38:23,478
Speaker 3: Me a little.

911
00:38:23,518 --> 00:38:26,238
Speaker 4: Bit and the other one would be the intent of the. Pitch,

912
00:38:26,678 --> 00:38:29,518
Speaker 4: again you can't always you can't always rely on the

913
00:38:29,518 --> 00:38:31,278
Speaker 4: fact that with good intention you're gonna throw the ball

914
00:38:31,318 --> 00:38:32,718
Speaker 4: where you want to or how you, want of course.

915
00:38:32,798 --> 00:38:35,678
Speaker 4: Not but when the intent is wrong and the result

916
00:38:35,798 --> 00:38:38,518
Speaker 4: is even, worse that's where you would get. Upset and

917
00:38:38,518 --> 00:38:40,278
Speaker 4: that's WHERE i, Mean i've talked about this with you

918
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,678
Speaker 4: a one hundred. Times and to Be, borzello that would

919
00:38:42,678 --> 00:38:45,278
Speaker 4: be a particular time when you would want the catcher

920
00:38:45,278 --> 00:38:47,958
Speaker 4: to look into the dugout and really look At Mike.

921
00:38:47,998 --> 00:38:50,478
Speaker 4: Borzello he would give the catcher some kind of a

922
00:38:50,478 --> 00:38:52,998
Speaker 4: little sign that would indicate we're not doing, That we're

923
00:38:53,078 --> 00:38:55,798
Speaker 4: to do something completely opposite of. That those are the

924
00:38:55,878 --> 00:38:58,158
Speaker 4: kind of moments to me where the peak and the

925
00:38:58,238 --> 00:39:01,198
Speaker 4: dugout could be absolutely. Beneficial and that's where it's also

926
00:39:01,278 --> 00:39:03,878
Speaker 4: beneficial to have somebody in the dugout that a catcher

927
00:39:03,958 --> 00:39:05,638
Speaker 4: to rely, on because we got all the pre game.

928
00:39:05,718 --> 00:39:07,998
Speaker 4: Prep you, know you don't have as much time in between.

929
00:39:08,038 --> 00:39:10,278
Speaker 4: PITCHES i get, that but he could be done very

930
00:39:10,358 --> 00:39:12,718
Speaker 4: quickly to the point where you're not gonna make that

931
00:39:12,878 --> 00:39:14,758
Speaker 4: kind of. Mistake that's the kind of, Mistake LIKE i

932
00:39:14,798 --> 00:39:16,798
Speaker 4: said to, me that was. Unforgivable.

933
00:39:17,118 --> 00:39:20,318
Speaker 1: Yeah and then In game two you had the eighth

934
00:39:20,398 --> 00:39:23,318
Speaker 1: inning rally there that Give detroit credit that came back

935
00:39:23,358 --> 00:39:25,438
Speaker 1: On Matt, brash, who by the, way walked the lead

936
00:39:25,478 --> 00:39:26,158
Speaker 1: off batter with.

937
00:39:26,078 --> 00:39:27,638
Speaker 2: A two run. Lead that's just inviting.

938
00:39:27,638 --> 00:39:31,198
Speaker 1: Trouble and then the error By, nailor and Then brash

939
00:39:31,198 --> 00:39:35,758
Speaker 1: made a mistake four consecutive sliders away From. Torkelsen his

940
00:39:35,838 --> 00:39:38,238
Speaker 1: sliders is clearly his best. Pitch he thinks he's gonna

941
00:39:38,238 --> 00:39:41,238
Speaker 1: surprise him with a fastball in And torkelsen just does

942
00:39:41,238 --> 00:39:43,118
Speaker 1: a nice, job keeps his hands in and shoots it

943
00:39:43,198 --> 00:39:44,118
Speaker 1: down the line.

944
00:39:43,998 --> 00:39:46,718
Speaker 2: Lead is lost and then Aj hinch goes To Kyle.

945
00:39:46,798 --> 00:39:50,118
Speaker 1: FINNEGAN i, Thought joe it was still should have Been

946
00:39:50,238 --> 00:39:52,278
Speaker 1: Trek scooble's game ninety seven.

947
00:39:52,358 --> 00:39:54,678
Speaker 2: Pitches if you look At Trek.

948
00:39:54,438 --> 00:39:58,518
Speaker 1: Scooble's career as, history he has never thrown more THAN

949
00:39:58,558 --> 00:40:00,398
Speaker 1: i think one hundred and nine pitches or one hundred

950
00:40:00,438 --> 00:40:02,438
Speaker 1: and seven pitches in the. Game this guy's built like a.

951
00:40:02,478 --> 00:40:04,798
Speaker 1: Tank to, me that was an empty the tank kind of,

952
00:40:04,838 --> 00:40:08,038
Speaker 1: inning the way That Alex korra did With Garrett crochet

953
00:40:08,398 --> 00:40:09,918
Speaker 1: seventeen pitches in the Wild Card.

954
00:40:10,038 --> 00:40:12,518
Speaker 2: Series so he goes To finnigan.

955
00:40:12,398 --> 00:40:14,718
Speaker 1: And finning is pitching for the fourth time in five,

956
00:40:14,798 --> 00:40:18,198
Speaker 1: games and he's clearly. GASSED i, mean it was one

957
00:40:18,238 --> 00:40:20,438
Speaker 1: of those cases where as a, manager you check with

958
00:40:20,438 --> 00:40:22,238
Speaker 1: the guy before the. Game you're not sure if he's

959
00:40:22,278 --> 00:40:26,118
Speaker 1: available or. Not he went With finnigan and quite, frankly you,

960
00:40:26,158 --> 00:40:29,278
Speaker 1: know he just hung a couple of, splitters went to Cal,

961
00:40:29,398 --> 00:40:32,398
Speaker 1: raley and went To Julio rodriguez and that's the. Game

962
00:40:32,798 --> 00:40:35,078
Speaker 1: maybe that circle of trust that Aj hinch has is

963
00:40:35,078 --> 00:40:36,838
Speaker 1: that narrow that he had to go to a guy

964
00:40:36,838 --> 00:40:39,358
Speaker 1: for a fourth time in five, games and you Mentioned

965
00:40:39,438 --> 00:40:41,878
Speaker 1: raleigh the way they've been careful with. Him Cal rally

966
00:40:41,918 --> 00:40:44,318
Speaker 1: in two games has seen three fast balls in the,

967
00:40:44,398 --> 00:40:47,078
Speaker 1: zone so they're definitely being extremely careful with. Him but

968
00:40:47,118 --> 00:40:49,838
Speaker 1: the splitter in this case just wasn't executed. Well he

969
00:40:49,878 --> 00:40:53,238
Speaker 1: doubles and then And Julio rodriguez. Doubles both splits left

970
00:40:53,318 --> 00:40:56,918
Speaker 1: up with no sink on them at, all and that's

971
00:40:56,918 --> 00:40:57,838
Speaker 1: why we have a one to one.

972
00:40:57,878 --> 00:41:00,958
Speaker 4: Series, YEAH i, mean that's the over abuse of a

973
00:41:01,078 --> 00:41:04,238
Speaker 4: pitcher kind, of BUT i don't really understand know that

974
00:41:04,278 --> 00:41:06,038
Speaker 4: guy that what the point, is what you talked about

975
00:41:06,038 --> 00:41:09,278
Speaker 4: with Schoobl that's, why like during the regular, SEASON i

976
00:41:09,518 --> 00:41:11,838
Speaker 4: like guys to finish a game once in a.

977
00:41:11,918 --> 00:41:13,278
Speaker 3: While we talked About Jake.

978
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:15,878
Speaker 4: Ariett in the book throwing one hundred and eighteen pitches

979
00:41:15,878 --> 00:41:18,798
Speaker 4: for a complete game, shutout something like, that maybe one

980
00:41:18,838 --> 00:41:21,278
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty In. MINNESOTA i thought that was really

981
00:41:21,358 --> 00:41:25,918
Speaker 4: important to him internally and to his development. Overall the

982
00:41:25,998 --> 00:41:28,398
Speaker 4: mind one stretch has a difficult time going back to

983
00:41:28,438 --> 00:41:31,598
Speaker 4: its original. Form you need to stretch these guys out mentally.

984
00:41:31,638 --> 00:41:34,278
Speaker 4: Too they got to know they can do this once

985
00:41:34,318 --> 00:41:37,198
Speaker 4: they know they can do this different. Animal but if

986
00:41:37,198 --> 00:41:38,958
Speaker 4: you don't give guys an opportunity to do.

987
00:41:38,998 --> 00:41:39,118
Speaker 3: This.

988
00:41:39,158 --> 00:41:41,078
Speaker 4: NOW i Think schooble did pitch a complete game last,

989
00:41:41,158 --> 00:41:41,918
Speaker 4: year didn't he or did?

990
00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:44,678
Speaker 1: NOT i think he has pitched a complete. GAME i

991
00:41:44,678 --> 00:41:46,678
Speaker 1: have go to check the, numbers but he's.

992
00:41:46,758 --> 00:41:49,078
Speaker 2: Not it's amazing to me that he has never pitched

993
00:41:49,118 --> 00:41:50,278
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten pitches in a.

994
00:41:50,358 --> 00:41:50,558
Speaker 3: Game.

995
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:53,278
Speaker 1: See my part of this is you're, thinking all, right

996
00:41:53,318 --> 00:41:55,318
Speaker 1: he's gonna pitch on regular rest in game, five and

997
00:41:55,358 --> 00:41:57,398
Speaker 1: if we get, there that's a step on your throat.

998
00:41:57,478 --> 00:41:59,238
Speaker 2: Game you get a chance to go up to nothing

999
00:41:59,238 --> 00:41:59,918
Speaker 2: in the other team's.

1000
00:41:59,958 --> 00:42:00,798
Speaker 3: Park that was another.

1001
00:42:00,918 --> 00:42:03,718
Speaker 4: ARGUMENT i mean back with The, Rays James, Shields, shields

1002
00:42:03,718 --> 00:42:06,478
Speaker 4: he he's a bulldog. TOO i had like one hundred

1003
00:42:06,478 --> 00:42:09,438
Speaker 4: and eight pitch as being As, waterloo just through. Observation

1004
00:42:09,638 --> 00:42:11,518
Speaker 4: it wasn't something that was told to me from the front.

1005
00:42:11,558 --> 00:42:12,678
Speaker 3: Office be.

1006
00:42:12,718 --> 00:42:15,598
Speaker 4: Careful after this, POINT i was always reminded of the

1007
00:42:15,638 --> 00:42:18,438
Speaker 4: average number of pitches my starters were throwing on a consistent.

1008
00:42:18,478 --> 00:42:21,478
Speaker 4: BASIS i would get emails about that, whatever AND i

1009
00:42:21,478 --> 00:42:23,718
Speaker 4: would look at this, stuff of COURSE i. Would but With,

1010
00:42:23,878 --> 00:42:26,118
Speaker 4: shields he would get upset at one he would get.

1011
00:42:26,158 --> 00:42:27,918
Speaker 4: Upset i'd take him out right about, there because for,

1012
00:42:27,998 --> 00:42:30,318
Speaker 4: ME i happened to notice, that BUT i got one on,

1013
00:42:30,398 --> 00:42:30,718
Speaker 4: nine one to.

1014
00:42:30,758 --> 00:42:32,678
Speaker 3: TEN i don't know, why but bad things would start.

1015
00:42:32,718 --> 00:42:36,838
Speaker 4: Happening but then eventually the glass ceiling of one o

1016
00:42:36,958 --> 00:42:39,158
Speaker 4: eight we tried to push to and we, did and

1017
00:42:39,198 --> 00:42:40,758
Speaker 4: then he got to the point where he was able

1018
00:42:40,758 --> 00:42:42,118
Speaker 4: to survive after that and survive.

1019
00:42:42,198 --> 00:42:43,598
Speaker 3: Well and that's just.

1020
00:42:43,678 --> 00:42:47,598
Speaker 4: Attitude you're just building, attitude you're building, Confidence you're building

1021
00:42:47,998 --> 00:42:51,758
Speaker 4: something within that, person that. Athlete that There's Jack, MORRIS

1022
00:42:51,798 --> 00:42:53,638
Speaker 4: i you could go down the list of great guys

1023
00:42:53,638 --> 00:42:56,518
Speaker 4: in the, Past, gibson. Whatever SO i think it's important

1024
00:42:56,518 --> 00:42:59,798
Speaker 4: to do, that but it's hard to convince analytically that it.

1025
00:42:59,838 --> 00:43:01,918
Speaker 4: Is and again there's a lot of MANAGERS i think

1026
00:43:01,918 --> 00:43:03,158
Speaker 4: would have no issue with doing.

1027
00:43:03,198 --> 00:43:05,038
Speaker 3: That but again you're to get a lot of blowback

1028
00:43:05,398 --> 00:43:06,438
Speaker 3: if in fact you permit.

1029
00:43:06,558 --> 00:43:09,118
Speaker 4: This during the course of the, season they're always worried

1030
00:43:09,118 --> 00:43:12,238
Speaker 4: about the next, start so much that they're worried about

1031
00:43:12,278 --> 00:43:14,678
Speaker 4: the number of pitchers thrown is gonna negatively. Impact they

1032
00:43:14,878 --> 00:43:17,158
Speaker 4: negative the. Impact they don't think of it as possibly

1033
00:43:17,158 --> 00:43:19,558
Speaker 4: building up confidence in arm. Strength to think about the

1034
00:43:19,558 --> 00:43:21,358
Speaker 4: negative that's gonna, happen which happens a lot.

1035
00:43:21,398 --> 00:43:22,838
Speaker 3: Anyway so my.

1036
00:43:22,878 --> 00:43:26,518
Speaker 4: Advice would be to permit guys like him and not

1037
00:43:26,558 --> 00:43:29,958
Speaker 4: everybody's created. Equally we've talked about that, Too but guys

1038
00:43:29,998 --> 00:43:32,998
Speaker 4: like a, school like real, horses like that savage as

1039
00:43:32,998 --> 00:43:36,038
Speaker 4: he goes into the next. Year Hopefully schlider showed it

1040
00:43:36,078 --> 00:43:38,438
Speaker 4: the other. Day let these guys go a little. Bit

1041
00:43:38,478 --> 00:43:40,678
Speaker 4: they're big, there, strong and they're going to be even

1042
00:43:40,758 --> 00:43:43,158
Speaker 4: better once they prove them. Themselves they could do it

1043
00:43:43,198 --> 00:43:43,758
Speaker 4: on a regular.

1044
00:43:43,798 --> 00:43:46,718
Speaker 1: Basis, YEAH i love that, theory pointing out the upside to,

1045
00:43:46,798 --> 00:43:48,998
Speaker 1: it which a lot of front offices.

1046
00:43:49,038 --> 00:43:49,318
Speaker 2: Don't.

1047
00:43:49,478 --> 00:43:51,838
Speaker 1: Right, well The dodgers may have a new closer these,

1048
00:43:51,958 --> 00:43:55,118
Speaker 1: days but we have the same closer For Marianna. Rivera

1049
00:43:55,598 --> 00:43:57,638
Speaker 1: Joe madden is going to take us home as he always.

1050
00:43:57,718 --> 00:43:59,518
Speaker 1: Does what do you have for us? Today to close

1051
00:43:59,558 --> 00:44:02,318
Speaker 1: out this episode of The book Of, Joe, WELL.

1052
00:44:02,158 --> 00:44:04,518
Speaker 3: I was you know your face with this? There oh and,

1053
00:44:04,558 --> 00:44:05,118
Speaker 3: two oh and.

1054
00:44:05,158 --> 00:44:08,558
Speaker 4: TWO i was faced with one in three versus The

1055
00:44:08,598 --> 00:44:12,038
Speaker 4: indians back in a couple of years, ago and it's

1056
00:44:12,078 --> 00:44:14,638
Speaker 4: a tough moment to be. In AND i, remember uh

1057
00:44:15,078 --> 00:44:17,838
Speaker 4: down three to one to The. Indians my kids were in.

1058
00:44:17,838 --> 00:44:20,758
Speaker 4: Town took them back to my apartment. Building they had a,

1059
00:44:20,798 --> 00:44:22,518
Speaker 4: great big room in. THERE i had a bunch of,

1060
00:44:22,558 --> 00:44:25,118
Speaker 4: pizzas invited everybody. Over we had a big pizza party that,

1061
00:44:25,198 --> 00:44:27,598
Speaker 4: night and everybody was astonished by. That but the point

1062
00:44:27,678 --> 00:44:30,278
Speaker 4: is you you. Can't the word panic is throwing.

1063
00:44:30,278 --> 00:44:30,798
Speaker 3: AROUND i get.

1064
00:44:30,798 --> 00:44:32,798
Speaker 4: It but you just got to continue to be, yourself

1065
00:44:32,838 --> 00:44:34,758
Speaker 4: believing what you, do et, cetera et. Cetera oh and,

1066
00:44:34,798 --> 00:44:37,278
Speaker 4: Two and this is really what it comes down, To Bob.

1067
00:44:37,318 --> 00:44:40,598
Speaker 4: Marley you never know how strong you are until being

1068
00:44:40,638 --> 00:44:43,118
Speaker 4: strong is the only choice you. Have what other choice

1069
00:44:43,158 --> 00:44:45,278
Speaker 4: of these guys HAVE i except to go out there be.

1070
00:44:45,358 --> 00:44:47,558
Speaker 4: Strong sometimes you have to fake it a little bit

1071
00:44:47,558 --> 00:44:50,758
Speaker 4: in the, beginning to catch some, traction some momentum, somehow

1072
00:44:51,238 --> 00:44:51,758
Speaker 4: but you got.

1073
00:44:51,798 --> 00:44:54,558
Speaker 3: It you gotta be that. Way and, then Like Theodore,

1074
00:44:54,598 --> 00:44:56,438
Speaker 3: roosevelt when you get to the end of your, rope

1075
00:44:56,598 --> 00:44:57,398
Speaker 3: ty and not and hang.

1076
00:44:57,478 --> 00:44:59,918
Speaker 4: On that's what these guys have to do right now

1077
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:02,758
Speaker 4: that both, sides THE o and two's have to do

1078
00:45:02,838 --> 00:45:07,678
Speaker 4: that not. Impossible one of, three that's just as, bad same.

1079
00:45:07,718 --> 00:45:10,438
Speaker 4: Same they got to win one more. Game so from

1080
00:45:10,438 --> 00:45:13,398
Speaker 4: the player's perspective of the organizational. Perspective as a, manager

1081
00:45:13,638 --> 00:45:15,278
Speaker 4: they have to see the same guy walk in the

1082
00:45:15,358 --> 00:45:17,958
Speaker 4: door the next day doing the same things that he's

1083
00:45:17,998 --> 00:45:19,998
Speaker 4: done as though we're two and zero or three in

1084
00:45:20,038 --> 00:45:23,278
Speaker 4: one going to this moment and the player's, perspective the

1085
00:45:23,318 --> 00:45:25,598
Speaker 4: only choice you have is to be. Strong we talked

1086
00:45:25,638 --> 00:45:28,598
Speaker 4: about this one of the talking points going to the

1087
00:45:28,598 --> 00:45:31,118
Speaker 4: playoffs with my. Guys that would tell them something bad's

1088
00:45:31,158 --> 00:45:34,318
Speaker 4: going to. Happen something bad we're not, expected we don't

1089
00:45:34,438 --> 00:45:36,678
Speaker 4: like it's going to. Happen how we react to that's

1090
00:45:36,718 --> 00:45:39,038
Speaker 4: going to make the. Difference and they're at that point right.

1091
00:45:39,038 --> 00:45:41,158
Speaker 4: Now that's the inflection. Point right, now how are we

1092
00:45:41,198 --> 00:45:43,038
Speaker 4: going to react to this bad? Moment that's going to

1093
00:45:43,358 --> 00:45:45,638
Speaker 4: be the. Separator so the only choice they have is

1094
00:45:45,638 --> 00:45:46,838
Speaker 4: to be, strong and they got to.

1095
00:45:46,838 --> 00:45:49,198
Speaker 2: Be good Stuff. Joe we'll see you next time on

1096
00:45:49,198 --> 00:45:50,478
Speaker 2: The book Of. Joe Thanks.

1097
00:45:50,518 --> 00:46:00,558
Speaker 1: Tommy The book Of joe podcast is a production Of.

1098
00:46:00,638 --> 00:46:05,318
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeart, radio is it The iHeartRadio,

1099
00:46:05,358 --> 00:46:07,998
Speaker 1: App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.

1100
00:46:07,998 --> 00:46:08,638
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