WEBVTT - Christmas Season Already in Doubt 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.480 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.639 not to mention our hundred journalists and analysts more than 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.280 a hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.200 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.520 also listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.240 Eastern only on Bloomberg Radio. Now. There are a lot 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.280 of discussions going on about a vaccine in the race 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.879 for a vaccine, a lot of news coverage over the weekend. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.720 Um and our next guest and his team have been 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.640 facing the virus from day one in this country. They 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.159 the first US case of the virus actually confirmed in 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.159 Washington State at Providence Regional Medical Center in Everett, Massive 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.880 Hospital System Overall. Dr Rod Hawkman is President and CEO 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.960 of Providence Health. He joins us on the phone from Seattle. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.560 Dr Hawkman, nice to have you back with us. I 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.800 hope you guys are doing well. Help us. We always 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.960 kind of lean on you to kind of make sense 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.640 of some of the headlines that are out there. Uh. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.679 And as you see this race for the virus, what's 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.560 what should we as individuals expect realistically about how we 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.480 get there and when we get there? Oh? Sure, And 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.520 I think the best way to think of that as 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.240 I was talking to a group of folks that try 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.040 to you know, they say every time we listen you know, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.199 on TV. Uh, you know, we don't know who to believe. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.759 So I think it starts out with you know, we're 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.959 going to get better at treating this virus. So you 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.320 saw with rom visivie now being approved and you know, 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.160 we are first patient that we had in the United States, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.120 we actually treated with one visivie three months ago. And 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.360 what we're going to see are some other medications that 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.520 are going to be added to that in kind of 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.600 a cocktail to see if we can really improve patients 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.880 that get sick and hopefully prevent death. So that's one 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.160 thing that I think the public can start to say, well, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.200 that's a good tranche of research and work that's going on. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.600 On the other side of it is the race for 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.200 the back scene, where you know, there's probably more than 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.680 fifteen trials that are ongoing, which is fantastic, and we 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.240 have a lot of cooperation going on between the scientists 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.000 with the different trials out there, And to kind of 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.120 explain it to listeners, it's it's picking different parts of 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.080 the virus and seeing which one of those parts is 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.919 gonna give you immunity. And so that's in simple terms. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.800 You know, why would there be fifteen different trials because 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.480 they're also all looking at different aspects of the virus 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.000 to see which one seems to be as I would say, 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.400 the most immunogenic and the ones that can confer immunity. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.880 So and then there's an issue of whether you use 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:44.040 DNA or RNA, which from your biology from high school 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:49.000 has all different consequences. There are some companies that are 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.840 looking for a faster turnaround on their vaccine. Uh, we're 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.359 still we're cautiously hopeful about that, but you know that 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.920 remains to be seen, you know, so that the most 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:05.920 optimistic estimates are sometime in the late all towards the 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.600 end of the year, and the most realistic are probably 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.760 in the first quarter of next year. UM for a vaccine, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.400 that's what that's what most of us are looking at. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.840 In the in the clinical and scientific community, and so 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.480 Dr Hakman, as you look across the country and and 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.280 you drawing the experience that you've had there in Washington State, 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.880 you see this sort of checkerboard that we keep describing of, 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.040 you know, different states sort of coming back at different times. 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.600 But part of that is a response to how the 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.560 virus has played out in different geographies, different urban areas 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.040 versus suburban versus rural. What makes the most sense in 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.400 terms of the medical side and in terms of what 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.800 we should be doing before we have a vaccine? What 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.200 what makes the most sense. Yeah, I I just talked 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.600 to the Business Roundtable on Friday. We're trying to make 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.000 some sense for the CEOs around the country about what 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.480 they should do. And it's all very very dependent upon 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.280 your geography and your density. So when I think about, 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.960 you know, giving advice to different organizations companies, the first 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.400 question I asked, are where are you in the country, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.440 because it will make a different depending on where those 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.640 states and localities are on the curve of number of cases. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.600 And then the second thing that's really important is the 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.640 density of the work environment. So are you able to 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.560 spread people out? Can you spread customers out can you 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.880 do some of that which will help really really decrease 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.000 risk and exposure. So it's almost you almost have to 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.440 go through a checklist of the things that you do 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.320 in your business or where you are to kind of 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.120 understand what the best practices are and some of us are. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.440 We're actually putting together kind of some of those guidelines 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.800 so that these are the things that you look for 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.360 and these are the things that will decrease your risk significantly. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.760 And then a little bit of this is going to 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.880 be we gotta see what happens in the country. We're 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.760 gonna learn a lot. Certain places will teach us a 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.120 lot in our in our environment, Alaska's wide open and 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.680 open for business. Um, you know, again not a lot 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.880 of density, but we're also going to learn a lot 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.320 by doing that. What are the things that we have 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.640 to look out for. What about something like mass transportation 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.760 in a city like New York, How do you see 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:27.080 that moving forward? Wow, that is a tough one. That 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.800 is a really really hard one to think about, because 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.600 those are the situations where, you know, if you ask 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.360 me as a physician, that worry us the most. When 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.880 you've got a crowded subway car that has few people 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.560 in it in close proximity. How do you do that? 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.200 And I don't know whether it's going to take limiting 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.720 some of that transportation obviously everyone wearing a mask, because 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.640 there's no question that if everyone wore a mask, it 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.800 will decrease significantly the transmission rate of this virus, even 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:04.240 if they're not what people have on. So some of that, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.160 and then you know, you know, not touching anything. If 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.200 I got on a subway, as soon as I got off, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.719 I'd be, you know, washing my hands, doing all those 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.720 kinds of things. So I think we're going to have 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.160 to make some accommodation and probably limiting you know, we 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.440 can't have a packed subway car. So are there ways 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.640 that we kind of limit the number of people? But 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:26.279 those are going to be some of the tough ones 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.840 that we're going to have to solve. Yeah, it's such 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.320 a good point. I mean, this whole question of density 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.440 I think is certainly very friend of mine for those 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.039 of us here in the Tri state area. Dr Rod Hochman, 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.919 thank you so much, really just great insights. President and 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.479 CEO of probably in St. Joseph Health joining us on 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.200 the phone from Seattle, Carroll and the other thing. He said, 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.599 You know, we're just gonna have to wait and see 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.400 what happens as we reopened to see do we all 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.240 of a sudden get a spike in cases or have 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.359 we created some kind of herd immunity. Although we use 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.320 that phrase, would be very careful about how we use 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.719 it because and I think also comparing and contrasting what 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.560 happens in different regions and trying to figure out what 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.680 the variables are is really really important. You're listening to 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.760 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.760 Bloomberg Radio. All right, he's a Jedi in his own right. 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.400 Kevin Cirilli, our chief Washington correspondent, joining us from Washington, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.520 keeping track of all the comings and goings the next 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.040 leg of the stimulus. It ain't gonna be easy, keV. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.040 What's going on? It's not. Did you guys see what 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.520 President Trump said the other night. He says that he's 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.000 on board for a next round of economic stimulus looking 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.000 in in the next month or so or early summer, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.400 provided it include the payroll tax cut. So the payroll 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.960 tax cut is the bargaining chip from the White House, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.320 and they say no deal unless they include the payroll 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.560 tax cut. So looking beyond that in terms of where 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.560 this goes from here, well, remind us exactly what the 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.080 Paill tax cut is. Well, it would allow for businesses 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.720 in order to qualify for for large businesses and medium 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.000 sized businesses as well to qualify for some some tax 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.320 relief as it relates to keeping some individuals on their 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.080 on their payroll. And so especially at a time in 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.960 which the people are having this conversation about furloughs and 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.040 laying people off, many of these businesses on Main Street 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.040 in Wall Street, they want to make sure, uh that 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:17.560 that you know that they're going to be able to 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.760 have that. This actually happened if you think pre COVID, 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.120 this was another debacle during the Obama White House, but 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.520 also pre COVID during the tax uh, the tax debate. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.840 But another thing that I'm really interested in is where 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:35.040 the conversation shifts in terms of policy, uh with China 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.280 and how Democrats and Republicans this is becoming increasingly a 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.360 nonpartisan issue. Yeah, So tell us more about that, because 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.200 we're gonna have a big deep dive into China at 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.480 the top of the hour with uh Andy Brown. What's 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.439 the political side of this, keV. Well, the political side 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.359 is threefold. First and foremost, from a from a congressional standpoint, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.160 there is a host of different legislation that was that 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.640 existed prior to COVID, but even during this is getting 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.280 re It relates to five G and businesses and in 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.360 the United States being able to do business with European 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.720 companies that might be uh, you know, working with Huawei 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.080 and other Chinese firms uh. And Secondly, from a higher 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:18.559 education standpoint, there could be new regulatory structures domestically U 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.440 pertaining to China's ability to impact higher education. And finally, 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.880 I would you cannot talk about this in an election 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.400 year without mentioning the presidential election. And so I think 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.120 you're going to hear the administration and you heard this 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.480 from President Trump in his Fox Newstown hall last night, 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:40.480 increasingly taking a tougher tone against China and Beijing as 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.960 he did with with regards to tariffs. But from the 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.760 democratic perspective and Biden's orbit, they're going to say that 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.760 this is why they would argue they should come in 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.760 and be able to have a better relationship with Europe 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.040 so that the US and Europe can work together to 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.440 combat some of the inconsistencies. To put it mildly, coming 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.320 from from Beijing, I gotta say, I don't know if 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.559 any of you saw sixty minutes over the weekend, and 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.920 it was all it was all about, right, you know 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.440 the impact of the virus. It was gut wrenching, to 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.360 say the least in terms of small business owners. You know, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.360 people still waiting on checks. And then the whole piece 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.720 about farmers who we know already got some aid earlier, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.000 um you know, from the Trump administration because of tariffs, 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.160 speaking in the fight between US and China, and yet 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.079 you know they're not getting especially the smaller players not 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.520 getting assistants. I do think any increased trade tensions we're 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.959 talking about another hit to the economy potentially here. And 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.720 that's such a good point because if you think back 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.120 to when we were covering the U. S. And China 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:42.160 and how Beijing really saw the heartland America as as 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.600 a way to specifically get the president's attention because that's 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.079 the base of his political coalition. And so you're absolutely right, 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.520 it looks like we're headed towards more of a more 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.719 volatility on the U. S. China economic front, and one 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.000 more thing that I would I should mention is that 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:02.239 the World Health Organization and there is a legislation bipartisan 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.439 but also coming from intelligence community sources and from the 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.880 administration obviously questions about shi Jing Ping's relationship with the 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.960 World Health Organization and vice versa. Yeah, and all of 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.679 that is sort of backdrop or maybe foreground to this 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:22.080 very difficult relationship that we're seeing continue between President Trump 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.400 and President she Kevin Cirelli always made it. He works at, 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.600 as Tom Keene would say, such a high velocity that 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.920 you just get. It's like convinced he doesn't sleep, but 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.200 you just jam so much in a very short amount 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.640 of time. Love that guy. Uh. And he's also very 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.000 fun to follow on Twitter, as you know, kept at 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.880 kept Sarelli lots lots of lots of flexing, lots of 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.720 the little flexing emojis. It's good, It's good, all right. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.000 Kevin Surli is our chief Washington correspondent. As you heard 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.440 Charlie mentioned, if you're in the DC area, check out 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.360 his show. It's called Sound on Uh. It's on Bloomberg 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.360 one in DC at five pm, well street time. You're 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.400 listening to Bloomberg Business Week. How Master along with Jason Kelly, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:02.920 and I feel like Jason, a little bit of what 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.800 we just talked to for our New York audience about 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.320 the Amazon and engineer who quit in protest about how 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.920 Amazon is treating some of its workers fits into this 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.000 next story. It's in the magazine this week, and it's 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.960 really fascinating because throughout this virus pandemic, we've been talking 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.959 about essential workers, right and hopefully it's made all of 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.640 us realize how important they are. Some of the workers 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.480 that I think it's fair to say that a lot 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.679 of us have taken for granted before the virus. So 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.920 a story in the magazine, as I mentioned, takes us 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.080 back to nine o two to help us really think 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.320 about these essential workers. Susan Burfield is Projects and Investigations 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.640 report at Bloomberg News from Brooklyn. She wrote this story. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.000 We'll get to her in a moment, but with us 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.240 right now is Bluemberg Business Week itor Joe Webber on 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.960 the phone from Brooklyn and Jill, Jason and I were 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.439 just talking about um Amazon, which, as you know, it's 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.000 kind of in a bit of a pr nightmare for 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.080 how it's treating some of its warehouse workers and others 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.120 and for getting rid of a whistle blower. But you 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:05.560 do wonder this pandemic, these social ills that have been 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.880 out there are really being laid bare. You know, how 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.560 we will come out on the other side. Will we 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.640 totally ignore it or will we work to make it 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.760 a better society for every everyone? Uh? You know, there's 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.520 a lot of questions out there. Yeah. So I mean 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.720 I think that you get right to the heart of 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.160 it there, um And and you know, just throughout you know, history, 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.840 there's been these flashpoints and I think, um, one of 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.400 the things that this this shows is like there there 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:37.160 is always this silent agreement I guess between labor and employers, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.360 right and when you when you come to a flashpoint 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.240 like this, you know, it lays it bare and like 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.839 a pandemic like foot we're enduring right now, you can 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.840 kind of go through a task of companies and it 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.480 just exposes that in the very essence is like, you know, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:59.600 employment and labor. This is a conversation that um, that 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.200 we need to have. And I think the thing that 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.959 you know, if you really want to bring that um 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.760 into focus now, the thing that's really um, I think 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.480 unique uh forever for all times right, is this idea 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.720 of gig employment, and that gig employment thing is um, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.000 you know, not having a worker who's a full employee. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.920 I think that is a conversation that we're going to 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.480 just have more and more of than you know. The 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.040 fact that you know, like the state like California has 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.840 sort of been really at the forefront of this shows 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.920 how how some people are are beginning to look at 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.200 that relationship too. And so Susan come on in here. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.800 Susan Burfield, Projects and investigations reporter for Bloomberg, author of 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.720 this piece and a book, a new book. So tell 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.960 us about what you found about this coal strike, because 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.240 for those of us who don't know about it, there's 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.520 a bit of a wait, what that tell us? How 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.400 this connects? Yeah, So for us, you have to think 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:03.560 back in nineteen o two, So Theodore Roosevelt was the president. Um, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.400 he had come to power unexpectedly after McKinley had been 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.480 assassinated by a former factory worker, and so there was 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.720 a general sense of unease. You know, America was an 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.920 industrializing nation, it was urbanizing nation. There was a lot 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.240 of immigration, a lot of the issues intentions that we 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:28.280 face now. We're very prevalent there. And so when the 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:34.040 coal uh miners went on strike, UM, Roosevelt at first 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.480 was a little bit unsure about what to do. His 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.880 main concern was social order, but he also wanted to 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.400 show that he, as a president and his administration would 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.280 be on the side of workers and would stand up 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:55.800 for them when the time came. And so, what is 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.160 the main thing you take away that we should be 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.560 thinking about in the context of the current government and 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:07.880 maybe even our own sort of commercial or personal response here. Yeah, So, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:13.080 you know, the strike lasted five months. UM, winter was approaching. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.120 There was a real possibility that millions of people would 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.720 be without heat and light. Um, the Post office was 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:26.240 threatening to shut down, steel mills were threatening to layoff workers, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:30.080 and it was a real crisis in America. And you know, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.440 one of the things it revealed was that the coal 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.120 miners were really the essential workers of their time. And so, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.840 you know, much like today, it was. Um, it was 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:42.480 a bit of a shock, you know, for people to 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.600 realize that the kind of luxuries that they have, the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.160 convenience of their life was dependent on people who were 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:54.280 often underpaid or poorly paid, were vulnerable, you know, worked 0:16:54.280 --> 0:17:00.280 in dangerous jobs, and what Roosevelt suggested was that it 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.760 wasn't and shouldn't only be up to the companies to 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.800 do right by their workers. So they should, but that 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.200 the government also had a responsibility to step in and 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.879 to protect them and to you know, make sure that 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.159 they were working for a living wage. Um, and that 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.160 really overall it was an economy that worked for everyone. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.000 So I think those are the lessons and what's hopeful 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.360 about this moment. And then you know what also is 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.000 is uh, as I called it in the piece, kind 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.200 of haunting question that we're all going to be faced with, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.240 you know, Susan. Um. I also just want to point out, hey, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.320 first of all, our of fate again, we're talking about 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.639 Susan's book, which we excerpted in the magazine. And just congratulations, uh, 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.800 like just high fives from over here, um, Jason Carroll. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.560 I got a personal copy. I got a personal copy, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.800 which actually we did it. We did a socially distant 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.560 um drop off. So she lived it understooped and I 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.040 picked it up, uh, in that in an envelope that 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.200 said Joel on it. So I was like very honored 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:11.240 with that. People. I want to I want to just um, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.480 say that. You know, I think that, you know, even 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.200 though it's a historical book, I think there are lessons 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.960 from history that are going to just prove really powerful 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.960 right now. And I think Susan's book gives us a 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.560 sense of that. Um Susan, if I if I could 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:26.879 kind of bring it, I spent a second of it 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.920 the beginning kind of just talking about gig workers sort 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.399 of being a modern day equivalent. And you know that 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.080 is such a topic now when we think about uber 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.360 drivers or instant cart workers and like they've just we've 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.720 sort of taken them for granted until suddenly we realized, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.359 you know, all of these people are are on the 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.360 front line in a way that um um are our 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.800 instrument integral to the modern economy. And yet you know, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.879 we weren't thinking about them in the same way before 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.919 all of this. And you know, California is one model 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.119 of how how a state looking out for people in 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.600 a different way. How would how do you think, uh 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:09.440 like a Roosevelt would view you know, California's policy and 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:13.600 all of this, and and is that enough? Yeah, that's 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:18.040 a really good question. So you know, Roosevelt really ushered 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.320 in the progressive era in America, and it was really 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.320 the first in the time that a president kind of 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:28.760 came out very directly and said we in the government, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.879 we as Americans, need to provide a square deal for 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.280 everyone with his term. You know. Then later we had 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.240 the New Deal and we had the Great Society, but 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.520 first there was a square deal, and it was the 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.480 idea that you know, everybody should have, you know, as 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.080 an equal a chance as possible, and that you know, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.800 everyone should be equally protected. And so while I think 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.880 Roosevelt would be supportive of what California and the other 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.560 state is doing, or for that matter, what any single 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.199 company is doing, he really BELI in the power of 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.200 the federal government. Well, and I have to say, I 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.159 love to this idea of covid capitalism, and we'll have 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.879 to see where the country goes, whether it whether it 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.440 just helps to benefit those that have already benefited a lot, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.840 or whether we rewrite some of what's been going on 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.760 in our society. Sous In Burfield, check out our book. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.520 We'll hopefully talk to you more about that and of 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.520 course our thanks to Joe Webern. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:29.040 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.399 All right, let's do a little business week economics and 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.000 sort of a special edition today because we want to 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.439 really focus on what's going on between the US and China, 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.399 and we try to catch up this time more or 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.840 less every week with Andy Brown, He's editorial director of 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.280 Bloomberg New Economy, joins us on the phone from New Hampshire, 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.239 and Andy, I have to say, we were talking on 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.760 our planning call earlier today and realizing everything that is 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.480 going on between the US and China. Some comments made 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.080 by both uh, you were the guy we need to 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.000 shock too, So we really appreciate you, uh taking some 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.120 time here give us the context because this has been 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.159 complicated to say the least, but it feels like it 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.679 got turned up to eleven as they say, over the 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:19.439 past hours. Yeah. So you know, this whole lame game 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.600 between the US and China, as you say, has now 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.800 gone to a whole new level. Um And what's happened 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:35.679 now is that uh, Donald Trump has threatened UMU China 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:41.320 with with trade retaliations, um, you know, with tariffs on 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:46.119 Chinese goods. So you know here you are here, we 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.159 are sort of teetering on the edge. We suddenly on 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.119 the in in a in a recession, teetering on the 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.119 edge of a depression, and the last thing the world 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.920 needs now is a trade war. Uh, And it looks 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.280 as though we may be getting one. Well and yet 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.879 exactly I mean, Andy, it makes me wonder, you know, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:05.960