1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Breaking news tonight. Barry Morphew, 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: charged in his wife Suzanne's murder, walks free, Yes, you 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: heard me, walks free after a murder one charge. 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Suzanne 6 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Morphew goes missing on Mother's Day, torn. 7 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: Off her mountain bike to vanish into thin air. She 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: was shot full of animal tranquilizers before her death. 9 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: Bary Morphew has walked free, accompanied by his daughters, who 10 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: are absolutely. 11 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: Convinced he's innocent. 12 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Then who did kill their mother and drag her remains 13 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: far far away? To Gregory Nietto, joining US investigative reporter 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: Fox thirty one, Denver, he's been on the more Aphew 15 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: story since the very beginning. Gregory, could you explain to 16 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: everyone where her remains were found. 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 3: It's in an area that's about two and a half 18 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 3: hours away from the family home, just out of Salida, Colorado. 19 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: There's really no relevancy in terms of the area and 20 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 3: where the family had lived. And so that's part of 21 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 3: the theory is that her remains or whomever is responsible 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 3: for killing Susanne Morphy wanted to take those remains as 23 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: far away as possible with the hope that her remains 24 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 3: would never be found. 25 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute. 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: How far away from their home were her remains found. 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: It's a good two and a half hours away, different county. 28 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: It's actually two counties over county, which is south of 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: where the family home is, again outside Salida. Technically they 30 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: lived in this town by the name of Maysville, Colorado, 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 3: just to the south and the west of Salida. But again, 32 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: considering the amount of time that she had been missing, 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: that nobody had to found her body her remains for 34 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: it to be that far away, I think was part 35 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 3: of the illusion, if you will, that perhaps you know 36 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: someone else other than Berry is responsible for her death. 37 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: How do you get that, natape. 38 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: Well, what I mean by that is, I think that's 39 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: part of the defense plan that if the remains are 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 3: found a good three years after she first is reported missing, 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 3: and they're found nowhere near Maysville or Salida, Colorado, two 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 3: and a half hours away. Again, part of that theory 43 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 3: is that she'll never be found, right. The other part 44 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 3: of it is once she is eventually found, that it's 45 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: less and less of a connection in the defense's eyes 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: that it can be tied to a berry. 47 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: Wow, because you know what, I think the exact opposite 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: to Scott Iiker joining us, founding member of FBI's Cellular 49 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: Analysis Survey Team. But for purposes of this question, Homicide 50 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: Detective Norfolk, Virginia Police Department, Scott, Obviously it's someone who 51 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: wanted to stage the murder. When there is a random murder, 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: all the wants to do is get the hay out 53 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: of there. For instance, a burdler comes into the house, 54 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: he sees me bam. 55 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: And runs forget stealing the TV. I got to get 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: out of here. 57 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: The person that murdered Susanne Morphew staged the scene, which 58 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: means to me it's not random. 59 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 4: I Tony agree with that. If it was a burglar 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 4: coming in, he would have ended up in a discuffle 61 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 4: of something that he would run immediately and not staged 62 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 4: the scene. And that's evidence of someone that lives there, 63 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 4: that knows where things are supposed to be in that residence. 64 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about the staging aspect 65 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: of this. Mark Tate joining me, veteran trial lawyer defense 66 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: attorney with the Tate Law Group, who shot to fame 67 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: during the Alex Murdog investigation and conviction. Tate, Okay, I'm 68 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: not asking you to take the defense hat just yet. 69 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm asking you to comment on what I'm talking about 70 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: staging the scene. Her bike was found closer to her home, 71 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: and at the time, Barry. 72 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: Morphy, you who has just walked free. Everybody stated a 73 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: mountain lion must have done it. There's her bike. Her 74 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: helmet was found about a mile away. I guess the 75 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 2: mountain lion did that too. 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: So somebody went to the effort of putting the bike here, 77 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: the helmet somewhere else, and the body. 78 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: Far far away. Just go with me on this the. 79 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: Significant of staging the scene. Who stages Somebody that doesn't 80 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: want to be caught, Somebody that thinks they can el 81 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: smart police. If it's random, there's no staging. 82 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 5: Right, it does look staged. It makes a problem. I think, 83 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 5: as you discussed, just to take off the defense Council hat, 84 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 5: and I'm willing to do that, but this is the 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 5: kind of thing that makes it difficult to defend a case. 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 5: You know, the best type of case. If you're going 87 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 5: to defend someone who is accused of murderers where number one, 88 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 5: the body's not found. Number two that it's not set 89 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 5: up to create and appear to be set up to 90 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 5: be a distraction. Obviously there was something created here to 91 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 5: try to make it look like it was a bicycle accident. 92 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 5: It was anything but a bicycle accident. And it gives 93 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 5: you know, this mister Morphew, his defense lawyer, a very 94 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 5: difficult time I think to reckon with explanations that, and 95 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 5: of course the prescription for the tranquilizers that was found 96 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 5: in her or found in her, I think makes all 97 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 5: of that dipict. 98 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bam, oh yeah, very very difficult. You know, 99 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, I want you to follow 100 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: up on what Tate is saying. Renow psycho analysts out 101 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker. You can 102 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: see her now on peacock and find her at doctor 103 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Staging staging. It could 104 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: be anything from let's see that I had one case 105 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: where the mom was found dead naked on her bed 106 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: and the perp had put a wicker the bathroom wicker 107 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: is largely decorative trash can over her head. It could 108 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: be as simple as hiding the body with leaves, or 109 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: putting a blanket over the body, putting the body in 110 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: a trash bag. Just all of that is considered staging. 111 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,559 Speaker 2: Or for instance, in the Ellen Greenberg case, stabbed nearly 112 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: thirty times, we've. 113 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: Got blood dried going from here to here. But somebody 114 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: had propped her up, the blow would have gone down. 115 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: But just propping her up equals staging. Who stages a sane. 116 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 6: Person who stage is a scene is somebody who obviously 117 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 6: doesn't want to be caught. But it's not somebody who 118 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 6: has just raped the person or stolen something from them, 119 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 6: as you said earlier, or just maybe hit them in 120 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 6: a car accident or something like this. This is where 121 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 6: it's premeditated, and the purp has already prepared a dump 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 6: site for the body. I listened to the tape of 123 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 6: the investigation when Morphew first went out with the investigators 124 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 6: to look for his wife, and I was surprised the 125 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 6: number of times he said, it must have been a 126 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 6: mountain lighton, it must have been a mountain lion, It 127 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 6: must have been a mountain lion. So not only was 128 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 6: there staging of the body, but there was this suggestive, 129 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 6: persuasive influence on the people who were looking for her, 130 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 6: that something she had met, some demise that was perfectly 131 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 6: be explainable. 132 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: It's like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz, doctor Bethany 133 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: clicking heels together three times saying instead of there's no 134 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: place like home and suddenly being transported back to Kansas, 135 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: he's saying, it must have been a mountain lion. 136 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: It must have been a mountain lion. It must have 137 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: been a mountain. 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Lion that's going to transport him out of the murder investigation. 139 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 7: You know what. 140 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: I appreciate you saying that, doctor Bethany, But let's hear 141 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: it from the horse's mouth. Is it a crash? 142 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 8: I mean the bike hook the way it was, Lady, 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 8: that kind of looked like it, But there's not really 144 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 8: that much. 145 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 4: Damage to a bike lion, Yeah, lion. I didn't see 146 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 4: anything though, anything, And they're not letting us. 147 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 3: Go over the sights because they're getting a track. 148 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 4: Looking for Jackson on the route. 149 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 8: I haven't seen anything really, but like pole tracks were 150 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 8: lyon and I didn't really know this, but I will lie. 151 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 8: I'm not like an expert. 152 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: Tractor or something without they may not be a mountain 153 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: lion expert, but I happened to have a mountain lion 154 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: expert with me right now. Esteemed doctor Gray Stafford, joining US, 155 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: a zoologist, has worked with zoos aquariums, consultant, host of 156 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: zoo Logic podcast, author of Zoomility. 157 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: It goes on and on. 158 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: Faculty member Grand Canon University, Doctor Gray Stafford. 159 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: The mountain lion. It must have been a very cunning 160 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: mountain lion. 161 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: To jerk her off of her bike, take away her 162 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: body two and a half hours away, and oh yes, 163 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: on the way through her helmet elsewhere. 164 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's not going to happen. They might drag the 165 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 8: body away to a more convenient site, but not two 166 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 8: and a half hours away. 167 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: What would you have expected to find at the scene 168 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: if a mountain lion? Oh good, great, I can't believe 169 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: we've been talking about a mountain lion. If a mountain 170 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: lion had killed Suzanne more few. 171 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 8: Well, there would be tracks. If they had animals like 172 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 8: dogs to track this animal, they would pick up on sens. 173 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 8: There would be signs of struggle, signs of probably injury, bleeding. 174 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 8: Even if the animal dragged her away, there still would 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 8: be signs of struggle. 176 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Gray Stafford, joining US renowned zoologist doctor Stafford. Isn't 177 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: it true that a wild animal such as a mountain 178 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: lion typically would only drag its prey x amount of 179 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: yards away so it could eat It would eat the 180 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: prey almost immediately. This is not some sci fi thriller 181 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: where the mythical mountain lion gets her body and much 182 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: like a griffin, then flies off to the mountains to 183 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: eat it. That's not the way it works with wild animals. 184 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: They drag the body thirty to fifty yards and they 185 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: eat it right then and there. 186 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: They have a buffet there. 187 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a reason for that. Are they afraid 188 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: another animal will get the carcass from them? 189 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just know that's true. 190 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 8: You're absolutely right, Nancy. An animal is going to want 191 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 8: to protect its kill, and depending on whether it's a 192 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 8: female with cubs or a male, their behavior might change 193 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 8: a little bit as far as how far they would 194 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 8: drag that prey away. But they're going to protect that prey, 195 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 8: and it's it's not going to be dragging that person 196 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 8: or prey miles and miles away. 197 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: Joining me, Tisha Leeway, a dear friend, Susans had more 198 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: few tisha When you first heard that Barry morph you 199 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: put it out there that Suzanne had been killed by 200 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: a mountain lion. 201 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: Did you believe that for one minute? 202 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 6: No, not even a second. 203 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 9: It was the most welsu defense that he could even have. 204 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 9: First of all, they didn't find any blood any you know, 205 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 9: anything to do with a mountain lion. You're not going 206 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 9: to find it clean space. You would a probably founder, 207 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 9: probably one hundred yards away if anything, or pieces of 208 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 9: her clothing blood, there was nothing. 209 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: Greg Renietta joining it. I was Fox thirty one, Denver. Now, Greg, 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: where did this mountain lion theory first come from? 211 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: Well, first came from Barry the first night we were there, 212 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: when Suzanne was first reported missing. It was a twofold theory. 213 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 3: It initially started off with, well, perhaps it was a 214 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: homeless encampment that had dragged Suzanne away from her bicycle 215 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: and done away with her. 216 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 2: A minute quickly, Gregory, hold on the homeless? 217 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 8: Did it? 218 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: Have you heard the homeless? Did it before? Okay? What? 219 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? 220 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: Between the mountain lion and the homeless encampment, it's always 221 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: the homeless they do it. Tell me about this, I 222 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: haven't heard this. 223 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: So we the first again. Either she went missing, we 224 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 3: head down to Maysville, Colorado, and I know her best 225 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: friend there can explain it topography a little bit better 226 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 3: than I can. But regardless, the further south and west 227 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 3: you go, it quickly becomes I mean, extreme mountainous. At 228 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 3: one point, authorities were searching a nearby lake or pond 229 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: for Suzanne. When we first arrived on scene, it was 230 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 3: the full point was the bicycle, the fact that Suzanne 231 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 3: was no longer attached to the bicycle, and the fact 232 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 3: that a homeless individual encampment was responsible. I was the 233 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: theory at the time when we first got down there 234 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: and dragged her away from that bicycle and is responsible 235 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: or was responsible for her death. 236 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: Following up on that vein Greg Grinietto, how far away 237 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: was the homeless encampment from where her bike was found? 238 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: Not very far Again, you're talking about a mountainous area 239 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: where there are plenty of ravines and crevices and whatnot, 240 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: and her bicycle was found not all that far away 241 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 3: from the family home, but just far enough away where 242 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 3: again the theory was a homeless individual was responsible for 243 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: her demise that it was just far enough away from 244 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: the house where that individual wouldn't have been seen. 245 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: But wait a minute, you're saying Ravenes mountains, So the 246 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 2: homeless person climbs across the ravine and down the mountain 247 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: kills Suzanne. 248 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: And then what that's the theory they went through all 249 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: that kil Susanne? 250 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: Morph you, yeah, that was. 251 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 3: The original or initial theory that that may have been 252 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 3: what happened to her. I mean that area, if you know, 253 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: we look at it on foot, and as we did, 254 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 3: it doesn't seem like an area that any other individual 255 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: human being. 256 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 10: What even if you. 257 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 3: Were homeless, I don't think you had enough access to 258 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: enough of the you know, land amenities to survive. So 259 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 3: anybody else living in the area where the bicycle was, well, you're. 260 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: Making me think of another question. Gregory, who first came 261 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: up with the idea that she had disappeared off her bike? 262 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: Who first said she was going for a ride so 263 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: she was all alone on Mother's Day? Fat chance? 264 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: Who first put that in everybody's mind that she would 265 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: be attached to her bike? 266 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 3: It was buried? 267 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: And greg Rinietto, isn't it true that Bary Morphew said 268 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: that to the neighbor that he called, like, where is 269 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: her bike? 270 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: She was going to go for a ride something like that. 271 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: I mean again, if you remember, Barry was out of 272 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: town on Mother's Day weekend up in closer to Denver, 273 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: and you know, when we first arrived down there in 274 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 3: the Mainsville area, one of the prevailing theories was why 275 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 3: would she be riding that bicycle by herself on Mother's Day, 276 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: Mother's Day weekend? And where was Barry? And why was 277 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: it that she's out there on this bicycle by herself 278 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 3: in an area where the further you get away from 279 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: the family home. I mean, in theory, you know, it 280 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 3: could be I suppose a little bit more dangerous just 281 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: because you're getting further further away from the home. But 282 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 3: Barry is the first one that established that theory about 283 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: the bicycle and her being removed from it. And that's 284 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: where this all kind of started. 285 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 286 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: Well, it's happened, Barry more a few has walked free again. 287 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: He is out from behind bars again tonight. 288 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: Wow. 289 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: It just seems like yesterday he was begging for his 290 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: wife to come home. 291 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 11: Oh, Susan, if anyone is out there, I can hear 292 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 11: this that has you. Please, We'll do whatever it takes 293 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 11: to bring you back. We love you and you miss you. 294 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 11: Your girl's needs us. No questions asked, however much they want. 295 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 11: I will do whatever it takes to get you back, honey. 296 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 5: I love you. I want your back so bad. 297 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 9: She was in the backyard and I think that's where 298 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 9: he shot her with a tranquilizer gun. 299 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 6: I think she got up. 300 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: I think she ran. 301 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 12: He ain't looking around for nothing. He's not calling her name. 302 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 12: He doesn't say hey, in case she got hurt on 303 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 12: the bike. There was some marble accent. He doesn't refer 304 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 12: to it. He didn't talk about it. He's not checking anything. 305 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: Barry Moore, few charged in the murder of his wife, 306 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: Suzanne Morphew, has walked free. 307 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: Yes, listen. 308 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 13: When Barry Morphew is indicted in Colorado for the first 309 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 13: degree murder of his wife, Suzanne, Arizona, friends who know 310 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 13: him as Bruce or Lee Moore are conflicted when they 311 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 13: find out that the guy they had a beerra dance 312 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 13: with is not a local handyman from the trailer park, 313 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 13: but a man wanted for first degree murder of his wife. 314 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 13: Finding out Bruce is not his real name. Harold's Cave 315 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 13: Creek garral Bard manager Charlie Lutz spends hours reading stories 316 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 13: about the man from Colorado accused of murdering his wife 317 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 13: on Mother's Day. 318 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: Greg grinietto joining US investigative reporter Fox thirty one Denver. 319 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: Didn't the judge do a complete one eighty and about face? 320 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: What was the first view on bond? 321 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 3: Yet they were simply trying to get the overall amount produced, 322 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: and the judge was not going to go for that. 323 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 3: And so ultimately the shock of everybody, I think, and 324 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 3: at least in the state of Colorado, the judge went 325 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 3: down the path of this surety, which is really translations 326 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: for baillbombsman covering in this case, ten percent of that 327 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 3: three million dollar bond. The first question, of course to 328 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 3: Barry's attorney as well, who's responsible for raising this money? 329 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: And imagine the two daughters have that much money, And 330 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 3: all the attorney would say is it's his supporters. Well, 331 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 3: who are the supporters. I've been in constant contact with 332 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 3: the folks down in Salida radio station down there, who 333 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: has kind of the temperature of the community, and they 334 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 3: could not think of anybody that would fit the bill 335 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 3: of a very morphew supporter outside of his two daughters 336 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 3: and perhaps of some women in Arizona. 337 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: What do you mean women in Arizona? Is he now 338 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: a sugar baby? Is somebody supporting him? 339 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 3: That the idea has been floated a little bit down 340 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: there with the amount of time he was spending in Arizona. 341 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 3: And at this point, that's that's just what some folks 342 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: he answer. 343 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: Somebody had to put up this money. 344 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: Somebody had to put up the money half of it, 345 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: and the bail bondsman a dinvers a one bail bonds 346 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: agreed to cover the rest. 347 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: Somebody had to put up something. 348 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, the journey, that's all I would he would leave 349 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: it with is that Barry Morphy supporters. And again, the 350 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 3: amount of times I've been down there, kishickn vouch for this. 351 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 3: I mean being inside the courtroom, being outside the courtroom. 352 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 3: I don't think again, outside of the two daughters who 353 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 3: were always there every time Barry is let out of jail, 354 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 3: I couldn't remember talking to one person who would say, hey, 355 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: you know, you just don't know Berry like I know Barry. 356 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: We support him throughout everything he's going through. So when 357 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: you talk about Barry Morphy supporters. I don't know who 358 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 3: that would be. 359 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: But it's not just that the judge did a U 360 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: turn in the middle of the road and gave Barry 361 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: Morphew bond. 362 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: He has walked free, all smiles, and why shouldn't he 363 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 2: be but listen to these bond restrictions. 364 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 13: Morphew's bond restrictions begin with a GPS monitor, a ban 365 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 13: on leaving Colorado and surrendering his passport. He is also 366 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 13: under strict house arrest and can only leave his home 367 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 13: for medical emergencies or meetings with his attorneys. He's not 368 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 13: allowed to consume alcohol or controlled substances. There is a 369 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 13: mandatory protection order barring him from contacting witnesses or the 370 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 13: victim's family, except his daughters, one of whom was with 371 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 13: the bailbondsman to get more few out of jail. He 372 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 13: cannot possess firearms or dangerous weapons, and he must only 373 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 13: use his legal name. 374 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: What an ankle monitor? Are you kidding me? 375 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: Does anybody on this panel know how to beat an 376 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: ankle monitor? 377 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: Anybody? 378 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: I bet Tate does Mark Tate? I' vetter a defense attorney. 379 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: Let me just say Swans don't swim in a sesspool. Tait, 380 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: all right, I'm sure you know how to beat an 381 00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 2: ankle monitor. 382 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: Can we start with cutting this track? Can we just 383 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: start with that that's an obvious or using aluminum foil? 384 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: You ever heard of that? 385 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 5: Well, I would never counsel a client to try to 386 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 5: counter his bond measures life, but we do have I 387 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 5: wouldn't do that now if it was me that needed 388 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 5: to get away and it was you know, something that 389 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 5: would help produce a better show for you, when we 390 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 5: could talk about me hiding one of my ankle monitors. 391 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 5: But right now I'm not on one, so that's not 392 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 5: really something to worry about. But no, that clearly would 393 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 5: be a violation of his bond. And you know, I 394 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 5: think that. 395 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: Tank, I think Suzanne Watch You is dead. 396 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 5: I've seen it, and we are dealing obviously with a murder. 397 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 5: It's a bad situation. No one, I think, is alleged 398 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 5: that this was a We're talking about somebody who's blamed 399 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 5: a mountain lion. We've talked about somebody who has shifted around, 400 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 5: is using fake names. Come on, Nancy, he's using fake names. 401 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 5: He's made a mockery of this system and if we 402 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 5: can figure out a way to show that he, in 403 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 5: fact is the mockery, that increases, I think the chance 404 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 5: of him breaking and being held accountable for what happened 405 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 5: to his wife. You know, he's fled the jurisdiction. By 406 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 5: the way, the trailer park that he that we keep 407 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 5: talking about, was not some squalid trailer park. It's a 408 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 5: very campy glamping park that is a place where people 409 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 5: book little fund stays. It's not, you know, the squalid 410 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 5: trailer park that perhaps we have seen. This guy is 411 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 5: a mockery of himself, and so it's time I think start. 412 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 2: Calling him right there. 413 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: Grandma lived in a trailer So I don't know what 414 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: you're talking about. 415 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about. We're talking about he again. Why 416 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 2: am I hearing that? I'm still hearing him? Can we 417 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 2: go to Scott Iker plays Iker, founding member FBI Cellular 418 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 2: Analysis Survey Team. 419 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Can we talk about ways to be an ankle monitor. 420 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: It's not rocket science, it's not brain stars. 421 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: Number one cut the strap, yeah, number two, use aluminum foil, 422 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 2: and it creates basically rudimentary Faraday cage. 423 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 4: Explain that's true, and a Faraday bag or Faraday cage 424 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 4: is referred to restricts the radio signal coming from the monitor, 425 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 4: and so it basically shuts it down so none of 426 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 4: the devices can receive that data. So you could leave 427 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 4: the house that you're supposed to be and if you 428 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 4: cover it up or as you said, cut it off 429 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 4: and leave it at the house, then the authorities don't 430 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 4: know that you've left the house. Those are easy ways 431 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: to beat the hank monitor. 432 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: What about using a metal container that completely can block 433 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: the signal? Can it not? 434 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 4: It can anything. That's that's what a Faraday bag is basically, 435 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 4: and it's a like tinfoil. But if you use the 436 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 4: metal container, you can use the same thing. Of course, 437 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 4: you'd have to kind of seal it up of the 438 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: radio signals don't get out. 439 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: Of it, you know. 440 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about how to beat the ankle monitor 441 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: at Sadly, we've already given him several ideas. 442 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 2: I still don't get it. 443 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: Greg reenietto why the judge did a one eighty before 444 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: there was a bond in place and then suddenly he's 445 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: allowed to make bond. 446 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: What happened? 447 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: We're all baffled by that. The folks that were listening 448 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: into that hearing just assumed that when she the judge 449 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: refused the first request in terms of the overall dollar amount, 450 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 3: we just assumed that even though the defense would come 451 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 3: back with a counter offer, if you will, the judge 452 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: would again say, you know, no dice. But again, it's 453 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 3: proving that Barry is almost like a teflon dawn, right. 454 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: I mean, every time we think collectively that we've reached 455 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: the end of the road in terms of finally getting 456 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 3: to a trial, something new happens. Talk to the folks 457 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 3: in Salida who are there every single day to She'll 458 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 3: tell you the same thing. Other things in the world 459 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 3: were going on last week when the judge first made 460 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 3: the decision to go with the surety, and then when 461 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 3: Barry's supporters came through with the money to post that bond, 462 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 3: other things in the world and the country were going on, 463 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: and the temperature in Solida was you know, oh my gosh, 464 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 3: this came out of left field. How in the world 465 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: does this happen again? Coming to almost the end of 466 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: the road legally, if you will, And then once again 467 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: it's getting off the highway. 468 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 11: Host Suzanne, if anyone is out there, I can hear 469 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 11: this that has you Please, we'll do whatever it takes 470 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 11: to bring you back. We love you and you miss you. 471 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 11: Your girls and easy unions, no questions asked, however much 472 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 11: they want, I will do whatever it takes to get 473 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 11: you back, Honey. I love you and I want your bats. 474 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 13: In gay Preek, Arizona, a town of less than five 475 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 13: thousand people, a man chows up after the COVID epidemic, 476 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 13: introducing himself as Bruce and ordering a cold beer at 477 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 13: Harold's Cave Pree Corral. Our manager Charlie Lutz says, ladies 478 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 13: approached Bruce and flirt and he would do the same. 479 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 13: Libby sprool is at Harold's when the new man in 480 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 13: town asks her for a dance. Lebby says, you're very 481 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 13: more few, but the stranger says, no, no, I think 482 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 13: you have the wrong person. Later in the evening, an 483 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 13: individual introduces the new guy as Lee from Indiana. 484 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: Lee from Indiana, My rear. 485 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: End to Dave Matt joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, 486 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: who is Lee from Indiana? 487 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 10: Well, Lee from Indiana is just a made up or 488 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 10: half made up person, because you know, Barry Morphew is 489 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 10: from Indiana originally, and he's been in Colorado. But now 490 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 10: we're out in Arizona and this man from nowhere into 491 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 10: town and pops up to the bar and gets a 492 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 10: cold beer and asks the lady to dad, I'm Lee Moore, 493 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 10: got a new life. 494 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment to doctor Bethany Marshall 495 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: joining us psychoanalyst out of the Beverly Hills Jurisdiction. 496 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, hold On, have you ever noticed when people. 497 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: Start an elaborate lie, they very often weed in a 498 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: few true facts, I guess so they can keep their 499 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: story straight. He is from Indiana, so I mean this 500 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: is established. Apparently he's at a bar drinking a cold beer. 501 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: Women flock to him. 502 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 2: I don't get it. I do not get it. 503 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: It's just like you know, women that the woman that 504 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: married jord Vanderslout and had his children the guy that 505 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: murdered Natalie Holloway and Stephanie Tasciana Flores, right, I think 506 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: he's had two babies behind bars. 507 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: I don't get it. Why do women flock to this guy? 508 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: Number two? Number one question? So easy to make up 509 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: a false identity. 510 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: Isn't it weaving well parts of the truth into history? 511 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: And is it Barry Morphew's middle name Lee. 512 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 6: You know, Nancy. I think there's always this sliver of 513 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 6: truth in every lie, and that's why it becomes believable 514 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 6: to some people. But I have another theory, which is 515 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 6: that when people lie, they build it on a foundation 516 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 6: of some truth because they are also lying to themselves. 517 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 6: In other words, they have to convince themselves that what 518 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 6: they're saying is true so that it becomes believable to 519 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 6: the people around them. They have to embrace the lie, 520 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 6: live the lie. So if it's tethered to some little 521 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 6: Oh I'm from Indiana, I have size ten shoes, you know, 522 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 6: I have two daughters. Whatever it is about his life, 523 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 6: then he can build a whole narrative around that and 524 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 6: be more convincing to the people around him. 525 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: In other words, line and sinker hook, line and sinker. 526 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 4: Bok. 527 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: How do they do it? I mean, is there some 528 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: trick to it? 529 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: When I have lied, I get all hot all over. 530 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: I can feel it. I feel like I'm suddenly running 531 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: a fever. I've even stammered when trying to tell a lie. 532 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 2: It never works for me. But some people just rolls 533 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: off their tongue. 534 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 6: If you have no conscience, it's easy to lie, and 535 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 6: they're very charming. They're very manipulative, and I think this 536 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 6: is why the women at the bar flocked to him, 537 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 6: That these types of individuals are initially very outgoing, they're 538 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 6: very talkative. Words just roll off their tongue, and I 539 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 6: think the women really like that. They're like, hey, this 540 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 6: is an authentic guy. This guy's telling me all about himself. 541 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 6: He's social. Unlike my last boyfriend or my last husband, 542 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 6: who wouldn't go anywhere with me. This guy's out and 543 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 6: about and he loves other people. So they're initially charming 544 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 6: and tilt. 545 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: They're not, you know, Mark Taate. Don't you just hate 546 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: it when your client. 547 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: Tries to fabricate a big fat lie about his identity 548 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: but he uses his own middle name in his birthplace. 549 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 5: Whoopsie, Yeah, it's a disaster. This guy is just as 550 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 5: an example, I think once more of really the defendant's 551 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 5: own words get himself in trouble, and he's obviously got 552 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 5: a very skilled criminal defense lawyer who's done a good 553 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 5: job for him. He's got him out on bond. He 554 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 5: was successful at apparently baring out some prosecutory of misconduct 555 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 5: possibly before. But again the words that come out of 556 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 5: his mouth that simply are incongruent with the facts as 557 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 5: we see them, and in somewhat you know, sort of 558 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 5: farcicle when we say that a mountain lion apparently was 559 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 5: carrying a tranquilizer gun. It doesn't make any sense. And 560 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 5: those types of things, in the course of the investigation 561 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 5: and the prosecution, the presentation of their case in chief, 562 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 5: I think you're going to play a big role. And 563 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 5: so once again when a client comes to me, my 564 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 5: first word to them is, you don't talk. You have 565 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 5: a rite against self incrimination, and you should exercise it, 566 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 5: because you know, we can only work with defending what 567 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 5: you make available to us, and they can work with 568 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 5: all the words that you use and say to all 569 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 5: the investigators involved, and that all comes out. And it's 570 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 5: those types of circumstantial statements you make and ludicrous things 571 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 5: that you claim that make a jury have zero find 572 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 5: you have zero credibility and put very little confidence, including 573 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 5: making up names. When you move six hundred miles away 574 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 5: to Arizona and you start approaching women with fake names 575 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 5: at bars, it's disingenuous and nobody on a jury wants 576 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 5: to see that or likes to see it. 577 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Bethany Marshall, you see how he 578 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: uses tidbits of the truth. 579 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: His middle name is Lee. 580 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: I mean he does not have a very good imagination. 581 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: He's very lee more few and he says he's lay 582 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: More from Indiana. I guess he would claim that is 583 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: the truth. 584 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, we see with prisoners on death row 585 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 6: that the longer they're there, the more they cling to 586 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 6: the fact that they were not the perpetrator. I think 587 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 6: that in this case, we see somebody who's pumping himself 588 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 6: up into somebody. He's not using slivers of the truth. 589 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 6: But you know, we're talking about the women who come 590 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 6: up to him at the bar. I would be more 591 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 6: interested in the women who said, no, I don't want 592 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 6: to dance with you, or no, I don't want to 593 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 6: go on a date with you, or after the second 594 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 6: date were creeped out and decided not to see him again. 595 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 6: How does he react when somebody says no to him? 596 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 6: And how might that be behavioral evidence in terms of 597 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 6: how he treated his wife. And one more thing, Nancy, 598 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 6: back to the mountain lion. Back to that mountain lion, 599 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 6: The poor mountain lion, when he's telling the story about 600 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 6: the Mountain Lion, there's no concern or empathy towards the 601 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 6: wife who's gone. And that's one of the primary things 602 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 6: we look for in homicide when we do interviews, is 603 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 6: does the alleged purp have empathy towards the person who's 604 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 6: no longer there? If they start criticizing that person or 605 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 6: acting dispassionate, or in this case with the new identity, 606 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 6: just dating other women, it shows that there's not a 607 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 6: tie to the lost love object, which really goes against 608 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 6: human nature. We want to be with and care about 609 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 6: the people we love. 610 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany. Of course, the defense, a veteran defense. 611 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: Attorney like Mark Tate will argue that someone's behavior or 612 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: their demeanor it means nothing. 613 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I think they all. 614 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: Stell it from Mark Giragues. There's no playbook for gree 615 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: or panic. Okay, fine, tell it to a jury. But 616 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: when you look at Bary Moore of you, he's like, hey, 617 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: many of Matlin did it. 618 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: You're right, there's no inflection at all. 619 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 6: And in these cases when somebody doesn't show empathy, the 620 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 6: rare times that we can say there's no playbook for 621 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 6: grief is if the person is dissociated, they're so traumatized 622 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 6: that they're dissociated, so they show no affect. But in 623 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 6: that case, they're not going to make up a big 624 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 6: old lie about a mountain lion. They're not going to 625 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 6: be excited, they're not going to be talking about tracks 626 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 6: on the road. They're not going to be going to 627 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 6: a bar and flirting with other women. Because people who 628 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 6: are traumatized and dissociated usually just withdraw from society. So 629 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 6: that's the only reason, only only reason ever, Nancy, that 630 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 6: somebody who's lost a loved one shows no affect is 631 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 6: because they are protecting themselves. But that is very rare. 632 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 6: Unless he has a history of trauma and a dissociative disorder, 633 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 6: he would naturally feel grief. He would be pushing those 634 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 6: people along to find his wife. He wouldn't have clever 635 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 6: words rolling off his tongue in terms of what might 636 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 6: have happened to her. 637 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: Tish leeway with us, very your friend of Suzanne Morphew. 638 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: I don't get it. What is so charming, so charismatic? 639 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: What's the pull a Barry Morphew aka Lee War Was 640 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: he that charismatic? 641 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 10: No? 642 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 9: I think he's a narcissistic pig if I could say that, but. 643 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 6: I don't understand. 644 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 9: I mean, he was dating right after six months she 645 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 9: went missing, So I mean that tells you a lot. 646 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 9: It doesn't surprise me that he's in Arizona trying to. 647 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 6: Pick up on women. 648 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 9: He I think he thought he was a man that 649 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 9: can get whatever he wants, and obviously, so far in 650 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 9: this whole thing, he's gotten everything he's asked for. 651 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 6: That's including bond. 652 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 13: Six hundred miles from where Suzanne Morphy was murdered in Colorado. 653 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 13: Her now widowed husband, once accused of her murder, is 654 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 13: making a new life for himself. He tells a bar 655 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 13: manager his name is Bruce, and is introduced to a 656 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 13: bar patron, Libby Sproule, as from Indiana, creating distance from 657 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 13: his past life as Barry morphew suspect and his wife's 658 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 13: unsolved murder. The man, who is now known around town 659 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 13: as Lee Moore, lives at the Stardust Trailer Park and 660 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 13: is self employed. 661 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Susanne Morphew's alleged killer has 662 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: walked free. That would be her husband, Barry Morphew, now 663 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 1: using an alias to pick up women at a bar 664 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: straight out to special guests joining US doctor Thomas Coyne, 665 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: chief Medical Examiner District to Medical Examber's office in Florida, 666 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, toxicologist. It goes on, doctor Coin, thank you 667 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: for being with us in her. 668 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 2: Bones and I don't know how they did this. I 669 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 2: hope you can explain. 670 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: Evidence was found that she was saturated with BAM, b A, 671 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: m BE, torphenol, A zaparone, metatomasine. 672 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 2: What is that? 673 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 7: So, first of all, I'll just answer real quick. Toxicology 674 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 7: testing in this case was performed on bone tissue because 675 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 7: obviously she was comprised only of skeletal remains. They had 676 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 7: no soft tissue, no blood, no urine, so the only 677 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 7: thing they could test was bone. And bone can actually 678 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 7: be used to identify drugs or compounds, whether it's the 679 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 7: marrow if there's fat, because all of our bones have 680 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 7: fat within the marrow. Sometimes you can test the marrow 681 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 7: or you can actually test the bone itself. The bone. 682 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 7: Mineral drugs will stick to it just based on charge, 683 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 7: and so you can identify drugs from bone, thankfully, especially 684 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 7: in this case. But with regards to what they identified 685 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 7: the BAM BAM's an acronym for a combination of three 686 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 7: drugs BEU torphenol, aziperone, and metatomidine. And those drugs individually 687 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 7: all have powerful sedative properties, and they're used preferentially in 688 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 7: large animal species to tranquilize an animal and then to 689 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 7: of course incapacitate the animal. All three of these drugs 690 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 7: in large animals are fairly safe. In other words, they 691 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 7: work very rapidly within ten to fifteen minutes to bring 692 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 7: an animal down and to make that animal immobile so you, 693 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 7: the human can interact with that animal safely. And then 694 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 7: these drugs are safe enough in large animals that they're 695 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 7: expected to allow that animal to recover and then go 696 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 7: back into its normal habitat. But these drugs are primarily 697 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 7: used in large animals like deer, elk, even black bear, 698 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 7: because they're safe in large animals, they are not safe 699 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 7: in humans. The concentrations of the drugs used in this 700 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 7: tranquilizer that achieve sedation and immobilization in an animal would 701 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 7: be highly toxic in the human. These drugs in combination 702 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 7: cause are cause profound respiratory depression and a decrease in 703 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 7: your heart rate and blood pressure in other words, than 704 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 7: a human. It would stop that human from breathing, and 705 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 7: it could also stop that human's heart, and so that 706 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 7: because of that, these drugs are contraindicated as a combination 707 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 7: in humans. They're only used in veterinary medicine. You would 708 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 7: not find these in the pharmacy for humans or in 709 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 7: a hospital pharmacy's formulary. It's only used for veterinary purposes. 710 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: Can I boil it down? Doctor Thomas Coin? With a 711 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: quote from animal Farm, four legs good, two legs bad. 712 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 2: Animals can sustain bam, it's deadly for people. 713 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 7: Correct, Yes, that's absolutely correct. 714 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: And doctor Coin, when you refer to getting the DNA 715 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: from her bone marrow, what is. 716 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,720 Speaker 2: In simple regular people taught what is bone marrow. 717 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 7: So the inside of our long bones has marrow. Marrow 718 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 7: is the part of our body that makes our blood 719 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 7: cells are predominantly our red blood cells, but also has 720 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 7: a lot of fat. Especially in those of us who 721 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 7: are above the age of thirty. Most of our bone 722 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 7: marrow is fat. That's why people actually eat bone marrow. 723 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 7: It's very tasty because of that fat. So that fat 724 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 7: reservoir can contain drugs, especially if you use it to 725 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 7: test for toxicology, but the bone mineral itself. So let's 726 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 7: say a person has been decomposed and their bones have 727 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 7: been outside for a long period of time, all of 728 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 7: that fat tissue inside the bone may be gone, so 729 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 7: all you're left with is the actual bone itself. You 730 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 7: can actually still test that bone because the minerals that 731 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 7: make up our bone drugs will stick to it based 732 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 7: on charge, and so even in archaeological samples that are 733 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 7: greater than one hundred years old, you can sometimes test 734 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 7: and find what a person may have consumed, poisons in 735 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 7: their environment, things of that nature. So it can still 736 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 7: be used for toxicology testing. 737 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: Matt to Gray Stafford, zoologist doctor Gray Stafford, tell me 738 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,240 Speaker 1: about BAM, how it's used. 739 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 2: Why would anybody even have it? That's not a VET. 740 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 8: That's a great question, because it is used in wildlife medicine. 741 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 8: As your previous guests I mentioned, it's highly concentrated. The 742 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 8: three drug cocktail is highly regulated. It's dangerous around human beings. 743 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 8: You have to have high concentration, high efficacy of this 744 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 8: drug because of course you're shooting a dart and you 745 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 8: can't have large volumes that you're injecting into an elephant 746 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 8: from a helicopter or from tree stand, it has to 747 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 8: be very potent, So even a small amount can be 748 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 8: very catastrophic for human being. 749 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: You know, according to the indictment linking Morphew to purchases 750 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: of BAM, prescription records show that when Suzanne Morphew disappeared, 751 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: only one private citizen living in the entire area of 752 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: the state had access to BAM. One private citizen that 753 00:41:53,960 --> 00:42:01,479 Speaker 1: is not a veterinarian, and that would be very Morphew. Now, 754 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 1: according to the evidence, her body was saturated with BAM. 755 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 2: To Scott Iiker joining us, founding member. 756 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: Of the FBI's elite Cellular Analysis Survey team, you just 757 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 1: heard doctor Gray Stafford, the zoologist, state that BAM enters 758 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: the body through a dart. Now, according to SELL data, 759 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: we see erratic movements by Mary Morphew's phone just before 760 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: Suzanne Morphew disappears. 761 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 4: Could you explain I can I've seen the photograph that 762 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 4: Dave presented where there's some GPS points that looks like 763 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 4: around the house. I guess Barry claimed that at this 764 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 4: point in time he's moving around the house shooting chipmunks 765 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 4: with darts. One that's that's a very hard thing to do, 766 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 4: those little tiny guys for the dart. But I can 767 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 4: see that that's the GPS points or whatever they might be, 768 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 4: you know, put his phone moving around the house, and 769 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 4: that could be from several different things. It could be 770 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 4: GPS from the phone, it could be estimated locations from 771 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 4: the cellular network which is not GPS, So he could 772 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 4: be just moving around the house in this case, maybe 773 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 4: straightening up or cleaning up to the mess. I don't 774 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 4: believe he's obviously out there shooting chipmunks. 775 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 13: Very Morphew's cell phone is pinging all around the house 776 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 13: on May night. Investigators believe the activity shows Morphew chasing 777 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 13: Suzanne around the house after shooting her with the tranquilizer gun. 778 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 13: Asked about the unusual activity, more few claims he was 779 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 13: just shooting chipmunks around the property. They're a constant problem. 780 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 13: Another problem for Morphew is his timeline of the night 781 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 13: of May ninth. He claims he went to bed at 782 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 13: eight pm, but computer shows the truck in reverse and 783 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 13: backing up toward the house around nine thirty pm. 784 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: Let me remind everyone that Barry Morphew is considered under 785 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: the law innocent. 786 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 2: He is presumed. 787 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: Innocent, and the rest of that sentence is unless and 788 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: until the state overcomes that presumption with evidence that proves guilt. 789 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: Right now, Barry Morphew is presumed innocent. If you know 790 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: or think you know anything about Suzanne Morphew's murder, you 791 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: may think it's insignificant. LA law enforcement may think otherwise. 792 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: It's not too late to come forward. The tip line 793 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,359 Speaker 1: is seven one nine three one two seven five three 794 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: zero repeat seven one nine three one two seven five 795 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: three zero. 796 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off. 797 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 5: Can I S