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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy. Tracy. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was really fun last year was Game to Stop? That

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Speaker 1: was a really good time, wasn't it. Yeah, plus a

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Speaker 1: land war in Europe that we haven't seen for many,

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Speaker 1: many decades. But yeah, retail mania was this big thing

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Speaker 1: that happened in early one And I'm just looking at

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Speaker 1: the chart of Game Stop that was sort of the

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Speaker 1: flagship stock for mean stock Madia Mania, and it looks

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Speaker 1: like if you zoom out now, it kind of looks

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Speaker 1: like an earthquake, which in some sense it kind of was,

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Speaker 1: Like it was this thing that just shook up the

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Speaker 1: entire market and people at the time we're saying that

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Speaker 1: this was like the end of capitalism as we know it.

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Speaker 1: It does. It definitely feels like so much has happened

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Speaker 1: over the last year. I mean, we've had a pretty

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Speaker 1: big sell off in areas of the market that are

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Speaker 1: really hot. It's been a long year. So many different

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Speaker 1: things have happened over that time, so many new narratives,

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Speaker 1: obviously tons of focus these days on inflation and so forth.

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Speaker 1: That whole period, it really seems like ancient history, but honestly,

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Speaker 1: it was really not that long ago. I think Matt

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Speaker 1: Levine has had some columns saying things that like, oh,

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Speaker 1: of game Stop is still trading above a hundred and

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Speaker 1: three months, I have to retire because all of markets

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Speaker 1: are broken. And I think it was still there or

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Speaker 1: definitely lasted a long time. And that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: other weird thing about these sort of these manias, which

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Speaker 1: is that you can identify them as a mania sometimes

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Speaker 1: in real time, or say this is ridiculous, this is

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Speaker 1: over overvalued, but it's really hard to call them at

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Speaker 1: the time. It's really hard to time the trades. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. But there was also this aspect

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Speaker 1: of game Stop where people were treating it, you know,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily as there were plenty of people treating it

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Speaker 1: as a speculative bubble, but there were some people who

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Speaker 1: just said I like the company, or I like whatever

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Speaker 1: this stock represents to me, and I'm going to buy it,

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Speaker 1: almost using it as a sort of like go fund

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Speaker 1: me for the business. And I honestly, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I think is really important in all this,

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Speaker 1: which is that you know, at the peak, you know

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Speaker 1: it got started in the spring of like that's really

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Speaker 1: when it kicked off. That's when we had the explosion

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Speaker 1: of new people trading. A lot of people who are

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Speaker 1: staying home, either they were working from home, people have

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Speaker 1: lost their jobs, and so you had this explosion of

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Speaker 1: people who are getting into retail trading options, trading, opening

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Speaker 1: up a robin Hood account, and for the first time,

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Speaker 1: like I guess really since the late nineties into the

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Speaker 1: dot com bubble, it was the first time and basically

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Speaker 1: twenty years in which it felt like stock trading was

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Speaker 1: like part of the environment, part of the culture, and

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Speaker 1: something that people are just talking about their individual stockholdings

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Speaker 1: in a way that really, yeah, I don't think had

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Speaker 1: been the case for at least twenty years, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I remember there's a there's a dorman who works at

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Speaker 1: a hotel in New York who I know who was

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Speaker 1: asking me about Tesla options around that time, and that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's verging on the famous JP Morgan

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Speaker 1: shoeshine boy kind of thing when the doorman starts asking

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Speaker 1: you about what options you should be buying for tesla um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it definitely was a cultural event, right, it

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Speaker 1: was really it was really a cultural moment, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested in like what became of that. And

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Speaker 1: I have my suspicions, you know, my guests would be

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people have now lost their money,

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Speaker 1: they lost their gains that they experienced during the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: maybe their disillusion. We know that trading volume is down,

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Speaker 1: but I also have to imagine there's at least some

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Speaker 1: people that have done well, you know, they've used this

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Speaker 1: moment perhaps to learn more, wanted to further their own education,

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Speaker 1: become deeply interested in how the markets work, options are prized,

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Speaker 1: how trading works, how to evaluate an investment, And so

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Speaker 1: I suspected at least some decent percentage of people got

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Speaker 1: excited about the market from Spring twenty one one have

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Speaker 1: stuck around and really further their knowledge to quite a degree. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And this is something that you see on you know,

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Speaker 1: the classic message board for a lot of the retail training,

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Speaker 1: which is Wall Street bets. A lot of the posts

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Speaker 1: that go up on there are incredibly sophisticated in trading strategies,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them aren't, I have to admit,

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Speaker 1: but you can learn a lot by by reading some

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Speaker 1: of that. Now, I think you make a really important

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Speaker 1: point like some are, they're not great, some are extremely great.

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Speaker 1: Some people have learned quite a bit, some got really smart.

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Speaker 1: Some are much smarter than anything I know about, much

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Speaker 1: more knowledge of market mechanics, how to price volatility. So

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Speaker 1: I think we don't know yet the final chapter of

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Speaker 1: this story and what this new cohort of traders that

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Speaker 1: uh and what became of them that really started at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic. I'm really excited. We have

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Speaker 1: two guests to great commenters who've followed for a long time,

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Speaker 1: get to give us different perspectives on the world. What

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Speaker 1: happened all those memes dogs, what's going on with retail trading.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be speaking with Lily Francis. She's the director

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Speaker 1: of quant research at Moody's Analytics. And we're also going

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Speaker 1: to be speaking with Kyla Scanlon, fantastic content creator, founder

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Speaker 1: of a new finance education startup, awesome on Twitter and Instagram, TikTok,

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Speaker 1: her newsletter all great stuff. So Lily and Kyla, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much to both of you for coming on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks stoving us. So what do we kick it off?

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Speaker 1: You know, let's say both of you be such great

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Speaker 1: commenters over the last year, of the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: building up significant audiences, great insights into the world of memestocks,

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Speaker 1: retail trading, the sort of new cohort of investors. But

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Speaker 1: why don't you just give us your perspective, Like, how

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Speaker 1: does right now in Spring two feel different than a

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Speaker 1: year ago? Yeah? Sure, So I'll take you first and

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Speaker 1: then lily up stuff to you. F for for me. So,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really in the still working at an institution

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Speaker 1: back when game stock kicked off in February. Orry, but

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Speaker 1: I think you have noticed a little bit of a downturn,

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Speaker 1: whether that be from people you know participating in discussions

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Speaker 1: on Twitter or on Reddit. But I think the people

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Speaker 1: that you see who have stuck around, they're even more

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Speaker 1: impassioned than they were back in February April twenty April,

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Speaker 1: um February. So I think that you're seeing a decline

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Speaker 1: in the number of people who might be participating, But

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Speaker 1: the people who are still around are incredibly into a

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Speaker 1: m C G M ME And you still do see

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Speaker 1: these stocks continue to tick back up. And I also

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Speaker 1: see think that you're starting to see people get a

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Speaker 1: little bit more interested in monetary policy. Jerome Powell has

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Speaker 1: become a household name, and I don't think that was

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Speaker 1: the case maybe you know two or three years ago

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Speaker 1: where people knew the Federal Reserve president name. So I

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Speaker 1: think that's a big one as well. Yeah, really, what

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Speaker 1: do you think? Yeah, so I want to echo callus

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Speaker 1: sent men here essentially, And you can see this pretty saliently,

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Speaker 1: and you know Google trends or app any if you've

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Speaker 1: looked at those about the rise and fall of Robin Hood.

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Speaker 1: I mean fundamentally, you can't talk about the meme stock

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Speaker 1: episode without thinking about Robin has impact on the options

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Speaker 1: market in particular. I mean, in my own data you

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Speaker 1: can see fundamental differences over time and the growth of

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Speaker 1: options with a pretty dramatic change in their volumes, as

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Speaker 1: well as impact the paddle the markets when Robin Hood

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Speaker 1: essentially announced the trading of zero costs their transaction options.

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Speaker 1: So I think that you know, you can see now

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Speaker 1: that there's definitely a decline in retail participation, especially in

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Speaker 1: the options market. I think, as you know, I discussed

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Speaker 1: this with something I speculated back in January that when

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Speaker 1: you look at these meme stocks based on the fact

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Speaker 1: that fundamentally, they're trading well disconnected from stuff like fundamentals

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Speaker 1: or even you know, kind of an understanding your future

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Speaker 1: value of the company itself. Then what you're seeing really

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Speaker 1: is the evolution of something that kind of looks for

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Speaker 1: the cults. And I don't even mean this in a

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Speaker 1: bad way or a good way, but I have these

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Speaker 1: this passionate core of people who believe fundamentally in this

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Speaker 1: truth that is extremely heada head. I can never get

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Speaker 1: that word right, head heterodox, heterodox. So what happens is

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Speaker 1: that no matter what you throw at them, whether it

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Speaker 1: was Robin Hood, you know, turning off the buy button,

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Speaker 1: or whether it was new earnings reports and game stop,

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Speaker 1: or whether it is the macro environment where now you're

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Speaker 1: still going to have these people who have faith in

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Speaker 1: this narrative that over time becomes a pretty dominant force.

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Speaker 1: I when you see this in cryptocurrencies, you saw this

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Speaker 1: ten years ago on Apple, and you're salt with Tesla

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Speaker 1: that fundamentally, this group of people is a capital base

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Speaker 1: that the company, if they do play their cards right,

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Speaker 1: can draw on to actually hopefully create value for their investors.

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Speaker 1: So this is something that I've thought a little bit

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Speaker 1: about but it's almost like, you know, you talk about

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Speaker 1: the disconnect between the fundamentals and the share price, and

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Speaker 1: it's almost like the price becomes a token that is

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Speaker 1: representative of an idea or people's idea of what that

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Speaker 1: company or that business or that cryptocurrency or whatever actually

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Speaker 1: stands for. And I wonder what does that kind of

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Speaker 1: meme trading or stalks, like, what does that actually mean?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? Like, how would you

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Speaker 1: define it? Is it that idea of you know, a

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Speaker 1: sort of a belief system getting wrapped up in a

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Speaker 1: tradeable token that people are willing to throw their support behind,

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Speaker 1: or how would you define it? Roughly, everything that trades,

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Speaker 1: fundamentally is an agreement for someone that this is the

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Speaker 1: value and I will be willing to buy it from you.

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Speaker 1: That is the only arbiter price of any asset is

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Speaker 1: that someone is willing to buy it from you at

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Speaker 1: that price in the future or now, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about marketing spot prices, so there are

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Speaker 1: institutional memes. I mean, when you think about fundamental analysis,

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Speaker 1: there is no law of the universe, like a law

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Speaker 1: of gravity that says stocks should trade at twenty times Pde. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we have models which kind of give us mathematical certainty

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Speaker 1: that allows us to look at how the market is

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Speaker 1: reacting and say we disagree with it. That's where you

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Speaker 1: get the idea of theoretical versus market pricing. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know, even those models,

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Speaker 1: the models of the mental analysis, they largely depend on

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Speaker 1: either are assumptions being correct or the adoption of the

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Speaker 1: model itself. And this is something that Emmanuel Derman, for example,

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Speaker 1: the famous options plant, has talked about as well. With

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Speaker 1: the advent of black shuals in option pricing, you see

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Speaker 1: that the assumptions of black shoals start dictating market structure.

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Speaker 1: And you know, fundamentals is obviously probably the most cohesive

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Speaker 1: and long lasting meme of the markets in the sense

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Speaker 1: that we all agree that a company should be trading

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Speaker 1: at a certain discounted cash flow evaluation. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean it has to because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: if I go to you and I'm saying, look, I

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Speaker 1: will buy this from you at a value wildly inflated,

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Speaker 1: you know that is my prerogative. You know that is

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Speaker 1: the market price at that juncture. And you see this

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Speaker 1: with a higher susceptibility, especially for these smaller companies like

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Speaker 1: a game Stop, because realistically, with a game Stop or

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Speaker 1: an AMC retail, especially if they're highly dedicated as well

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Speaker 1: as newly enriched by you know, the recent bubble and

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Speaker 1: what we call the stock market, they have enough force

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Speaker 1: that they could own a significant fraction of the float.

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Speaker 1: And when that happened, you know, obviously you can have

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Speaker 1: short sellers who can interact with the markets and try

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Speaker 1: to restore what we call efficiency. But at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, there's a reason why game Stop is

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Speaker 1: still trading in a hundred fifty dollars to share. We're

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Speaker 1: talking now a year and a half later, and you

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Speaker 1: see these companies that I wrote it off, everybody else

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Speaker 1: wrote it off. We were wrong. You know. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that the market and fundamentals are dead in any way,

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Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, everything that trades

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Speaker 1: trades on someone's belief. Yeah, I see, that's a core

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Speaker 1: driver of what's going on. Like I think G and

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Speaker 1: A m C all of that it was. It's really

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Speaker 1: emblematic of like a bigger thing in my opinion, Like

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Speaker 1: it's not just about obviously a video game company or

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Speaker 1: a movie company. It's you know, dissatisfaction with the institution

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Speaker 1: or being upset about how things are playing out. And

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Speaker 1: we were in the middle of a pandemic during that time,

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Speaker 1: and I guess I don't know if we're out of

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Speaker 1: it yet, who knows, But I think there's this big

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Speaker 1: loss of trust in traditional institutions and g M E

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Speaker 1: and a MC somehow we're able to capture that, and

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Speaker 1: they were able to. That's like the premium that they

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Speaker 1: sort of end up reflecting is like people being like, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty mad, and I'm going to buy this company

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Speaker 1: to try and prove to you how mad I am.

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Speaker 1: And that's why it's still going up is because I

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Speaker 1: think that narrative of this loss of trust in institutions

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Speaker 1: or in like traditional structures is continuing to play out,

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Speaker 1: and somehow AMC and g M E and other beam

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Speaker 1: stomps have sort of captured that narrative. And I also

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Speaker 1: think that we are in the era of themification of everything,

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Speaker 1: where um, you know, Elon Musk buying Twitter for example,

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Speaker 1: or even that like the idea of coming through where

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Speaker 1: everything is sort of meant to be laughed at, like

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Speaker 1: nothing is real like there's a lot of financial nihilism,

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Speaker 1: and so I think G M, E, A, M C, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: like this is you can't really quantify that, right, like

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Speaker 1: this is all just speculation. But I think that that

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Speaker 1: is also an element of what we're seeing where people

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Speaker 1: are just like, Okay, what's going on? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: so let me buy the stock because nothing makes sense anymore.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting is it kind of harkens back to date

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Speaker 1: of credit. You know, when we look at firms that

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Speaker 1: are very close to let's say a default point, then fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: you know, the basic model that we all kind of

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Speaker 1: understand is the Merrigin model, where we treat the equity

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Speaker 1: value as an option on the firm's continued survival and

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. You know, that is the basis

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Speaker 1: of how I viewed the moon stock trade, where you

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Speaker 1: have these stocks which you know fundamentally maybe worthless or

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Speaker 1: close worthless, or as I joke last year, I think

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Speaker 1: at one point AMC had negative shareholders equity. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know, you treated the

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Speaker 1: core reason that one buyas stock is a belief that

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Speaker 1: they will make money from doing so. It isn't based

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Speaker 1: on some ethics, it isn't based on true financial calculations.

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Speaker 1: And as you see these squeeze more and more, you

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Speaker 1: know you could almost treat these as an option on

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Speaker 1: the continued mean value of this equity or of this asset.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, one of my practical realizations

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Speaker 1: from that is that there are disruptions to this meaning,

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Speaker 1: which you could say are stuff like earnings, where you

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Speaker 1: kind of get this pressure to go back to reality.

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Speaker 1: But then you see an asset like a bitcoin, which

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Speaker 1: has no fundamental value. It doesn't there is no equivalent

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Speaker 1: of a bitcoin earnings. There is an equivalent of something

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Speaker 1: that will directly imply a market price that can be

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Speaker 1: arbitraged downwards. And that's when you see like the longevity

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Speaker 1: of these memes. How means die, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: beams die, Like I think that you see market cycles

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Speaker 1: and it becomes really hard for memes to hang on

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Speaker 1: during that time. Where As Lily just pointed out, like

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Speaker 1: you have earning supports, and if all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the company that you're putting all your networth into, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not a company, it's actually just like a

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Speaker 1: you know, a holding company, per se it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have any underlying value like that can be really difficult.

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Speaker 1: So I think like everything sort of boils down to

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Speaker 1: this idea of collective belief. And so if all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the collective belief behind whatever the asset is

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Speaker 1: goes away, if people stop saying, if they just stop

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Speaker 1: believing and whatever, that ends up looking like like you're

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Speaker 1: going to see the stock price end up going down,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know if robin hood is not really

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Speaker 1: a meme stock, right, but like you're starting to see

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Speaker 1: people sort of rotate away from that because collective belief

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Speaker 1: and whatever they were meant to do sort of rotutes

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Speaker 1: away too. So I think that's what I would say

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Speaker 1: is collective belief begins to die out, um, but humans naturally,

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Speaker 1: like we'll just go meme and other things. So it's

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Speaker 1: like as long as the meme cycle continues, they're just

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Speaker 1: going to move on to something else. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a joke on Twitter especially that I treat everything kind

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Speaker 1: of in the lens of option theory, because once you

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Speaker 1: once you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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Speaker 1: But you know you're looking at the attention economy, where

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Speaker 1: fundamentally you know, all of these stocks, especially once they

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Speaker 1: don't have a fundamental basis on what to trade on,

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Speaker 1: are really based on this idea of future liquidity, or

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Speaker 1: you can say it's a greater full theory, or you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever kind of derogatory term a pond Zi scheme. Those

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Speaker 1: are all kind of analogous to each other, these zero

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Speaker 1: sum games where you you assume that at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day someone is going to be holding it back.

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Speaker 1: I've argued, you know, previously last year looking at credit analysis,

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Speaker 1: that it's a bit more muddied in the sense that

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Speaker 1: you know, once you have these stocks, that mean, if

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Speaker 1: they have a base that's essentially rabid enough, they can

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Speaker 1: actually conduct at the money offerings which will turn into

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Speaker 1: capital for the firm, which, assuming a good management and

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Speaker 1: not management that's actually aligned with the vision, you could

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Speaker 1: maybe see a pivot. You could actually rescue a firm

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Speaker 1: that way, fundamentally, just because they have this new capital

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Speaker 1: injection when they wouldn't have been even in the market

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Speaker 1: for refinancing their debt before. But memes inherently are time limited,

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Speaker 1: and since that attention is fleeting, obviously, you have individuals

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Speaker 1: like Elon Musk who are very, very talented at staying

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Speaker 1: in this in basically the news cycle, and I do

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Speaker 1: think fundamentally that a significant fraction of tests Let's value

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Speaker 1: it is due to the fact that Ellen can command

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Speaker 1: this attention continuously. I think you're seeing that when people

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Speaker 1: we thumb our noses that individuals like Elan and be like,

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Speaker 1: why is he doing these crazy stuff? I sec should

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Speaker 1: come get him, etcetera. But you're seeing that the Overton

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Speaker 1: window of how CEOs interact with the environment has shifted

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Speaker 1: toward him, not away from him. You could argue this

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Speaker 1: kind of started with basically the Tea Party and Trump

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Speaker 1: as well, but at the end of the day, it's

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Speaker 1: become a powerful force in the capital markets, even with

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Speaker 1: this macro environment that's become more unfavorable. So I actually

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Speaker 1: want to ask more about the politics. So I remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, thinking a year ago and when all of

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Speaker 1: this was reaching a feed for pitch, and I'm totally

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Speaker 1: cool with it. I have no problem with people trading

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Speaker 1: or speculating or gambling with their own money. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: Lizzie Fair. It's cool to do what you want. If

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Speaker 1: you want to have fun trading, go for it. I

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Speaker 1: don't have any issues with it. If you want to

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Speaker 1: be part of a club that looks fun, it looks

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Speaker 1: fun to be part of the Game Stop club or

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Speaker 1: the Apes. All that honestly looks really fun to me.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, and you know you mentioned this

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Speaker 1: sort of financial nihilism aspect. I totally get that. The

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Speaker 1: only part that kind of offended me, and maybe there's

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Speaker 1: just being made old fashioned or what. The only part

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Speaker 1: that sort of like bothered me was the wealthy, successful

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Speaker 1: influencers telling their followers on Twitter and elsewhere, and I

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Speaker 1: won't name any names, but telling their followers on Twitter

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere that buying AMC or buying game stuff is

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Speaker 1: itself a political act. Like if you want to stick

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Speaker 1: it to the man, buy shares of AMC. Everyone buy

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Speaker 1: shares of AMC, and as you say, you sort of

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Speaker 1: breathe the life back into this company. And like, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's great for AMC. Maybe some traders made money, but

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Speaker 1: it's not obviously other than you know, some great strike

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Speaker 1: against elite institutions other than maybe one or two hedge

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Speaker 1: funds that lost a lot of money. And so it

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Speaker 1: kind of bothered me at the time, these big time

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Speaker 1: influencers telling their listeners that buying these stocks was a

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Speaker 1: powerful political act. But I'm curious both of your perspectives

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Speaker 1: about the political logic behind it. Yeah, I can, I

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Speaker 1: can go first and then really passive to you, But

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's super difficult, right to like figure

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Speaker 1: out what exactly it was or what sort of um

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Speaker 1: people were thinking. I think there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: a rug pulling to use that term, people saying Okay,

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Speaker 1: everybody goes and buy this, I can sell some of

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Speaker 1: my shares. I think that to the point of, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a way to stick it

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Speaker 1: to the band, This is a way of representing politics,

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Speaker 1: This is a way of conveying your beliefs to the

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Speaker 1: broader world. I think that that like this gets into

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Speaker 1: the idea of crypto sort of being religion, right, Like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people treat bitcoin and kind of as

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Speaker 1: a religion. And I think that you sort of saw

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Speaker 1: that with a m C and gm ME and you

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Speaker 1: still sort of do to at least point around not

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Speaker 1: a cult like a cult essentially, right, Not that the

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Speaker 1: religion is always a cult, but there's threads between all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff. And so I think to your point

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Speaker 1: around like, why would wealthy influencers say like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: go and by this. I do think there's this this

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Speaker 1: horrible trend that's always existed where people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you go and buy this thing. It's like essentially a

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Speaker 1: pyramid scheme, like you go by this thing and then

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Speaker 1: I'm going to sell it once you buy more, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll make money off of you. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: also think that it was this thing where people thought

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Speaker 1: that they could sort of make a difference, and so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people probably got wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in that. In terms of like what it represents from

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Speaker 1: a political perspective, I don't know. I think it was

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Speaker 1: mostly a money grab, though, yeah, I mean i'd add

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Speaker 1: to that. I mean, look, there probably is a contingent

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Speaker 1: which and you know, excuse my language, I mean to

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Speaker 1: give an example, you know, the Soviets used to call

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Speaker 1: them useful idiots, where there are some people who probably

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Speaker 1: did believe that it was this true battle. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to, you know, just count what they viewed

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Speaker 1: it as. But fundamentally, I've talked to institutions, I've talked

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Speaker 1: to traders and prop traders that they they made a

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Speaker 1: lot of money off of people. Like realistically speaking, I

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Speaker 1: think maybe you could argue Melvin Capital had a really

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Speaker 1: bad order on it. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: most hedge funds as well as prop firms jumped into

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Speaker 1: the mess made a lot of money off of retail backs,

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Speaker 1: primarily I mean pain spread. I remember in January the

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Speaker 1: spreads were abysmal when you know, treating Jamie, especially on

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Speaker 1: the option side, and it was kind of co opted

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Speaker 1: by this contingent of grifters. I mean, we know some

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Speaker 1: pretty famous ones who basically took this you know, retail

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Speaker 1: cause celebrate and made it about them. They basically encouraged

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Speaker 1: what was essentially a manic frenzy without regard for you know,

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Speaker 1: consumer protection, without regard for thinking of people who could

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Speaker 1: lose money off of this. And I do not wish

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Speaker 1: those people well. I think that, you know, that is

430
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: kind of one of the lowest forms of operation. You know.

431
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: It isn't to say that there weren't true issues that

432
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: were in masked by the GMME to boggle. I think,

433
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, I was one of the first people, to

434
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: my knowledge, on Twitter to break the news that Robin

435
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: had turned off the by button because I was actually

436
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: informed by someone in one of the trading groups that

437
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: I was part of, and I said, this is really bad.

438
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: I do not understand why they did that, And you know,

439
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: that is a true issue. But at the end of

440
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: the day, I don't think that the individuals involved in

441
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: those decisions were punished in any way. In fact, you

442
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: could argue that Robin Hood had a fantastic order due

443
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: to the game Stop and Jamie Friends Frenzy and made

444
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: quite a bit of money off of again normal people. So,

445
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: speaking of people taking advantage of retail traders, how do

446
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: we feel about CEOs and companies themselves tapping into the

447
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: meme phenomenon? And Kyli you already mentioned um elon Musk,

448
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: but you know, a MC for instance, has done phenomenally

449
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: well by playing to a certain base and really like

450
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: leaning into memes and stunks and crypto and all of that.

451
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: Is that the smart thing to do in a market

452
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: where memes can lead to actual inflows of real money

453
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: or is that taking advantage of, you know, a certain

454
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: fandom or base. Yeah, I think it's sort of a

455
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: tough one because theoretically it's just free marketing, right, Like,

456
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: if you try to memify your stock, you're just doing marketing.

457
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: But I think the difficult part becomes when you sort

458
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: of encourage behavior that might not be very good for

459
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: the people who own your stock, like, oh, whole no

460
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: matter what, um, even if like the company isn't doing

461
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: very well. And I think that kind of gets into

462
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: this whole thing where the stock is sort of separate

463
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: than the actual company itself. Like there's AMC the company

464
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: and then there's AMC the stock, and they don't seem

465
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: to be the same thing. And so I think that,

466
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: you know, people can do whatever they want with their money,

467
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: but there is this aspect where you have to be

468
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: an informed consumer. And I think that CEOs have a

469
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: responsibility to tell people the information would be both good

470
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: and bad um. And you know, they can lean into

471
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: the memification of things because that's just how life is.

472
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: And Elon Musk doesn't have a PR team for a

473
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: reason because he theoretically does all his own PR on

474
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Twitter dot com and it seems to work okay, like

475
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: Tesla's the o G memes doonk um. But I do

476
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: think that there is a level of responsibility that I

477
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: wish was, you know, underscored a little bit more. Sometimes

478
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: from leaders of companies when they try to become meme stonks. Again,

479
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a bit more I guess sharp

480
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: with my criticism here right before begin You know, this

481
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: is my own personal views. I'm not speaking on behalf

482
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: of you know, either my employer or anybody else here.

483
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: But I'm just good like how we have a long

484
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: history of laws on concern protection, we have an accredited

485
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: investor laws, and it's just mind boggling to me that

486
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: because the trades on the secondary markets that the CEOs

487
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: can get away with us. You know, I think realistically

488
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: there's a line between informing the public and presenting unbiased

489
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: facts and you know, doing something like you know, basically

490
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: making memes about you know, I forgot. I think one

491
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: that remember in was the short shorts that Tesla started

492
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: selling stock as well, And it's just like, you know, look,

493
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: I'm a twenty six year old I I am aware

494
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: that there's been periods of froth in the markets, but

495
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: what are the regulators doing here? You do see basically

496
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: that small fishes are being prosecuted for pumping dumps because

497
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: that's pretty much well established to be on the side

498
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: of not okay in the markets. But you know, it's

499
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: just it's it's impressive to me that you have et

500
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: F providers and funds that are more regulated on what

501
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: they can say to the general public then the CEO

502
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: of some of the largest companies on Earth. So I

503
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: actually want to pivot just a little bit and talk

504
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: about the cohort of people who are trading, who started

505
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: trading maybe a year or two years ago, um, and

506
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: what they're doing now. And of course, Kylie, you're launching

507
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: a new education founding information company. Literally for a while

508
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: you ran just like really great discord were extremely sophisticated

509
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: conversations about trading. I used to lurk of their super impressed.

510
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like, where do you see the people now,

511
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: Like where where did they go? And what's changed? And

512
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: I've been I've been out of the woods on the

513
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: retail side for a couple of months, So I couldn't

514
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: say specifically, um, what's captivated the retail mindset. I would

515
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: say that, you know, I do have on good knowledge

516
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: from individuals still in the space that there is still

517
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: a pretty dedicated cohort of traders. I think that everybody

518
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: just assumed that, you know, when the tide washed out

519
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: with liquidity from bond yields going up, that a retail

520
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: would be destroyed instantly. You know, I'm sure a lot

521
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: of people lost money. I mean, realistically, I've seen portfolios,

522
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: I've seen the carnage and grows stocks. But I do

523
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: think that a lot. You know, what makes it different,

524
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: and that's always saying this time it's different is the perennial.

525
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: You know, usually the top of the market in a

526
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: lot of cases. I mean, look, you're still seeing crypto,

527
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: especially in the private markets, command and saying valuations. You're

528
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: also seeing that we have a new generation of traders

529
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: who are natives to the Internet. They're experts at getting

530
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: new information and news, and you're seeing the advent of

531
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: tooling that previously we're talking ten fifteen years ago, wasn't

532
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: really available nor financially, you know, within reach of all

533
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 1: but the richest retail investors. So you're seeing that with

534
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: this democratization of information. It isn't to say that retail

535
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: isn't playing with negative edge still, but you are seeing

536
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: that it is becoming more and more possible to be

537
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: competitive in the markets. And you know, there was a

538
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: recent paper that actually Matt Leevin mentioned where you know,

539
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: you could see that there was a correlation between retail

540
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 1: interests and stock performance. So fundamentally, it's hard to argue

541
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: that retail investors didn't see success in the period. I

542
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: think a lot of the will assume the tide would

543
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: wash out, just like two thousand. From my own perspective,

544
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: I am seeing people hanging on to money. I am

545
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of people who became new vote rish

546
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: and you know, they are getting more and more sophisticated.

547
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: You know, my conversations and even my background started in

548
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: these trading discords very much similar to the old days

549
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: of let's say like a nuclear finance, where you see

550
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: these dedicated quantitative people start taking their talents from you know, cs,

551
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: from mathematics, from other fields that demand pretty similar skill sets,

552
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: and start looking at the markets and saying, hey, why

553
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: don't I try this? And I think that a lot

554
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: of them will give up eventually. I think the turn

555
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: rate is extremely high, and I've observed that myself. But

556
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: I do think that this is the market that is

557
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: going to birth the new generation of traders and a

558
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: new generation of funds that will look pretty different than

559
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: the previous generation. From yeah, I totally agree, and anecdotally

560
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I post on TikTok every single day, So go into

561
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: the throws of the devil, right, and the questions that

562
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: I get asked and the comments that are left are

563
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: completely different than they were about a year ago. Um,

564
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: people are a little bit more attuned into like monetary policy,

565
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 1: as I mentioned a little bit earlier, and they're just

566
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: sort of thinking about the broader financial universe. So like

567
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: I don't have as much insight on what treaders are doing,

568
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: but it just seems and totally that people have become

569
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: really interested in which they have the right to be, Like,

570
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: we're all economic entities, and like we should all kind

571
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: of be interested in what's going on economically and in

572
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: the markets because it doesn't impact us. And so I

573
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: have seen people like really become interested. I get a

574
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: lot of like really really good questions. And to Lily's

575
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: point about the paper that Matt Levine mentioned, like there's

576
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: over twenty one thousand discord investing servers, and so I

577
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: yea that you know twenty one tho servers you're just

578
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: going to shut down because all of a sudden, you know,

579
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: the Fed's gonna rease rate. It's inflation is like all

580
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: that stuff. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen.

581
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: I do think there's an element of stickiness to this,

582
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: and people are just genuinely interested in sort of this

583
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: like big being that that is the financial markets. And

584
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: I think, you know, um, the way that it sort

585
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: of entered into because I like the cusp of gen Z,

586
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: so I'm a z a lineal. I guess the older

587
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: edge of gen Z and gen Z is like the

588
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: way that they learn is sort of through watching TikTok videos,

589
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: are doing different things like that, and I think that

590
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: we've had sort of the gamification of finance and that

591
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: really allows people to become a little bit immersed as well.

592
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: So I don't think that you see sort of like

593
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: the same level of frothiness, but I do think that

594
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: you see people who are sticking around and are just

595
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: genuinely interested in what the markets are doing. I was gonna,

596
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, because I've I've been more cleared into the

597
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: crypto landscape, especially over the past six seven months, and

598
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, there it's interesting because it's almost native for

599
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: the trading mindset to be clued into retail chatter. You know,

600
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: I think fundamentally, if you look at a crypto trading role,

601
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: obviously there's systematic strategies, but when I talked to trader,

602
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: especially for smaller funds, there's a role now for individuals

603
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: to essentially just sit on discord and telegram all days

604
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: they're involved in the n f T space. You know,

605
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: part of me is wondering, I'm like, when you tell

606
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: me that, I'm like, well, this is kind of an

607
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: anomaly in time, and I don't know how transferable those

608
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: skills will be later. But the other part of me

609
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: is like, is this kind of just a paradigm shift

610
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: where you see that historically retail has been trying to

611
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: get the crumbs of what the institutionals are giving off,

612
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: and now you're seeing the converse where you're seeing institutions

613
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: go on these niche trading discords just to get some

614
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: insider information before that you know, token goes on hundred cks. Yeah,

615
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: I mean I've actually written this or about this before,

616
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: but like, if you think about something like crypto, if

617
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: it's driven purely by sentiment, which it is, and by flows,

618
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: then actually you know the person who's sitting in the

619
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: discord chat or the guy who's like sitting in his

620
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: mother's basement spending all his time on the internet is

621
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: probably going to have a better handle on where that's

622
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: going than an institutional investor in you know, a white

623
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: tower bank or something like that. But that said, one

624
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: thing that's interesting to me is that, you know, at

625
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: the height of the meme investing phenomenon, people were getting

626
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: really really upset. And we mentioned this in the intro,

627
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: but people were like, oh, this is the end of capitalism.

628
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: All our markets are going to stop working. They're making

629
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: fun of fundamentals and the financial industry and all of that.

630
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: But actually it seems like the two groups of financial

631
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: you know, traditional fine an aunts and the retail investor

632
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: slash crypto, it feels like they're sort of coming together,

633
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: or at least taking bits of each other and incorporating

634
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: them into their behavior. Because the other thing that's happened

635
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: this year is you see a lot more crypto people

636
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: talking about the FED and what new bond yields mean

637
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: for bitcoin, and you know, this is sort of all well,

638
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: and on Wall Street bets you see lots of people

639
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: talking about the FED and what's going to happen with

640
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: interest rates and things like that. So it kind of

641
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: feels like that body, that group has moved more in

642
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: the direction of Wall Street. Yeah, I would agree that they.

643
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: I think there's a knowledge that you kind of have

644
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: to have a broad understanding of, or it's at least

645
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: good to have a broad understanding of everything that's going on,

646
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: and I think to at least point earlier about like

647
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: all these different tools that are being developed, you can

648
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of get a lot of information that was previously

649
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: only allowed to Wall Street. Like there's it's like Quiver Quantitative,

650
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: which are really a valuable um. You can get different

651
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: substitutions to different news outlets or different data aggregators, and

652
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: so I think that maybe maybe the two are starting

653
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: to converge. But I also think the resources and the

654
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: tool links that they use are starting to converge, and

655
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: that's sort of reducing the information asymmetry that used to exist. Yeah,

656
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, like I said, it's it's

657
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: really hard to wear the crystal walls see what the

658
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: longer term impact will be here. I do think that

659
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: there is culturally, and this could be tied almost to

660
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: this idea of a failure of capitalism, although this is

661
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: probably ironically the most capitalist thing that could happen is

662
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: that more people have been you know, included in especially

663
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: with inflation and the growth wages to income inequality in

664
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: the country. And you know, I've kind of I touched

665
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: on this briefly last year, but it's kind of worth

666
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: re stating that what you're seeing is it's almost nihil

667
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: a sick tendency, especially among those who are younger, who

668
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: are you know, less enriched by the traditional system, where

669
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: they're kind of like effort. You know, I am going

670
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: to gible my money here because it is my way

671
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: to cross the chasm from you know, a diminishing middle

672
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: class to the land of the rich. You know, you

673
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: kind of see this. I think someone brought up that

674
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: this happened in Iran as well, where you saw that

675
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: a lot of the population started day treating. And I

676
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: do think, you know, on one respect, people are getting

677
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: more informed about the financial markets and economics on average,

678
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: which could only be beneficial for us as a society.

679
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: I think that obviously the world at large is dictated

680
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: by the flow of capital, despite how people want to believe,

681
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's different, it's never different. And being more

682
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: informed about how the markets were and how markets interact

683
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: with governmental policy. International policy is fundamentally important to being

684
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: successful in life, so I do think that is a benefit.

685
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: The downside, of course, is you're seeing this occur because

686
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: of an erosion of trust and traditional you know, intermediaries

687
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: like the news, like thanks like these basically cornerstone what

688
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: we considered a functional society. So I don't know how

689
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: basically it ends, but you know, it is kind of

690
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: concerning and sad in the way that this is kind

691
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: of the ethos that has been adopted, especially by my generation.

692
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if Kyla technically different generations

693
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: people kind of kind of treating stocks and crypto like

694
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: lottery tickets. Right, if you don't if you don't think

695
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: you have that future income growth, well why not just

696
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: spend your money on on a chance to get it?

697
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: You know something and Tracy that something you've talked a

698
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: lot about is like China and this gigantic ball of money,

699
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: like the trading speculation in trying in China, and you

700
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: know you have day traders and housewives buying iron or

701
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: futures and stuff like that. There's basically nobody retail in

702
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: the US trades. But I guess you know, I'm interested

703
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: in this idea that if there's the perception that the

704
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: economy is rigged, that you're never gonna be able to

705
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: buy a home, that income is never going to be

706
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: able to outpace inflation, they're gonna have this huge dead

707
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: burden that basically markets are the only game in town,

708
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: the only way to get ahead. And of course, if

709
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: your perception that stocks are rigged, that perhaps crypto is

710
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: like the ultimate way, Like this is your one shot

711
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: to get ahead. I just want to add here and

712
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: then I'll pass it over as well to Kyla and Tracy.

713
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: You know, I recently saw a friend of mine who

714
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: is also of our generation. She's a four year old,

715
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: just got her first job as the designer, and you know,

716
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: she was telling me when I talked to her, She's like,

717
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: my dream was really tone to how and it's really

718
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: sad in a way that you know, this dream of

719
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: homeownership has become so much insurmountable to the average American

720
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: where something you know, old adage is what basically a

721
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: home with a white picket fence and a dog and

722
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: two kids. It's like, how do you even afford that?

723
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: At this point? You know, America may be better off

724
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: even still than other nations which have seen the explosion

725
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: of real estate prices even more than what we saw

726
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: over the past two years. And I think that, you know,

727
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: this may be the fundamental check and the fundamental cost

728
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: of you know, quantitative easing that started in the global

729
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: financial crisis basically fifteen years ago. At the end of

730
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: the day, people are looking at the markets right now

731
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: as a way to, like I said, skip the chasm

732
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: where it's like this is your shot. And you're kind

733
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: of seeing this even in the discord, especially of crypto

734
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: or just course of crypto Twitter, where you can see

735
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: this compression of time. Basically Buffett or the tradition of

736
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: value investor, the way that you look at investing is

737
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: at a long time horizon. You are less susceptible to

738
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: the fluctuations and follies of the market if you are

739
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: investing for thirty years versus for thirty seconds. And I

740
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: think that because there's this general nihilism and honey ease,

741
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: and we've seen this solatively the past year, people are

742
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: thinking hand to mouth here with the markets. It's basically

743
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: I have this one shot I need to invest. Now.

744
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: You're seeing the deterioration of even doing due diligence not

745
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: only at the retail level, but also at the venture

746
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: level when you're seeing the innovation of stuff now like

747
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: pre idea investing. So everybody has kind of adopted this ethos,

748
00:42:53,480 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: so that time itself has compressed down two years, months, days,

749
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: and nothing good to come out of that. Yeah, I

750
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: think we also have this um broad problem of economic fragmentation.

751
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: So I think the leader of the I M F.

752
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact title, came out and was like, Yeah,

753
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: the world is increasingly economically fragmented. And I know re

754
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: Sulton has spoken a lot about that, where you know, sanctions,

755
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: whether that impacts the reserve currency and how the dollar

756
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: is going to respond to all that. But I think

757
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: on an individual level, like we sort of experienced that fragmentation,

758
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people are trying to

759
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: sort of get some sort of grip on reality because

760
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: we keep on having things that it sort of exists

761
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: in the tail end of the distribution happening, like a pandemic, war,

762
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: like a lot of things have happened, and I think

763
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, wow, like life is

764
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. I better go and figure this stuff out,

765
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: and the stock market and this like get rich quick

766
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: narrative some in some essences, the gambling aspect of it,

767
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: I think, are people just trying to like figure that

768
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: stuff out because there isn't that promise of you know,

769
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: work forty years and have a home and to have

770
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: two and a half kids or whatever. That's just not

771
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: something that is feasible anymore for the average person, and

772
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: so you almost have to, like to Tracy's point, lean

773
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: into that lottery ticket of the stock market, because otherwise

774
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of other options. What do you

775
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: think is gonna happen to retail trading over This is

776
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: such a broad category, but where do you see retail

777
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: investing going over the next year or so, Because in

778
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: some respects it feels like the easy gains are gone.

779
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: In crypto, you know, the idea that you're going to

780
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: put like a thousand bucks into bitcoin and become a

781
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: millionaire a few years later seems far fetch nowadays, although

782
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: maybe you could do it with another coin, who knows.

783
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: And then and then you have the pressure of liquidity tightening,

784
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: interest rates going up. A lot of the growth stocks

785
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: seem to have gotten the air kicked out of their tires.

786
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: We're recording this the day after Netflix earnings and that

787
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: is down massively and that was a big sort of

788
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: pandemic stay at home play. It just feels like there

789
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: are all these pressures building on typical on the kind

790
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: of things that are typically popular with retail investors. How

791
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: do you think that will end up playing out? I

792
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: think that we're going to see people still be involved

793
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: in the market, Like I think the meme I guess

794
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: of long termism, like to stay in the market and

795
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: you'll be fine for a couple of years, is going

796
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: to stick around. But I think, like so we are

797
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: recordings today after Netflix. I do think that Netflix sort

798
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: of falling is really interesting because that could be a

799
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: sign of regime change where one of the things is

800
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: going down, right, Like the tech era is potentially sort

801
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: of deteriorating, and a lot of people are just throwing

802
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: money at tech and that's kind of like, you know,

803
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: crypto has essentially become the nest tech it to a

804
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: certain extent as well, So you're starting to see all

805
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: these correlations pop up. Um. So I do think that

806
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: we're going to see people invest still, but like what

807
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: they're investing in I think will be an interesting question

808
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: and sort of how that pm L plays out over

809
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: the next two years, Like will the stack market continue

810
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: it's march upwards. I'm not sure, um, but that that

811
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: it could be interesting. Yeah, I think I'm reminded here

812
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: of you know, the sort of Mark Cuban basically sold

813
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: Broadcast dot Com to Yahoo in the late nineties and

814
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: he was actually paiding out his stock and the reason

815
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: he was still a billion after the tech bubble crashed

816
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: was here was strategic. He bought puts basically and he

817
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: made out and now he's still quite a billionaire. You know,

818
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: he invested in the next generation at tech and I

819
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: think you're going to kind of see that basically from

820
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: whatever the remains of this bubble period is as well,

821
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: You're going to see that despite the vitriol of many

822
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: who have been much longer in the markets, I think

823
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: a substantial fraction of the new beaux reach will hold

824
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: their net worth from you know, this current period. I

825
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: think they will be the new billionaires that fund the

826
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: innovations of tomorrow. I think from what you've seen in

827
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: the tech bubble and what happened later, Yes, there was

828
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: a lot of froth. There was pets dot Com famously

829
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: in their ipo, it crashed. A lot of people lost money,

830
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: but those people who made money and held on funded

831
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: the next generation of tech companies, which turned into the Googles,

832
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: the Facebook's, the Netflix is the I guess Apple, Microsoft

833
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: already still there, but you're not going to see this

834
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: money go away. I think there's going to be a

835
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: demand for retail investor, especially those who didn't make it,

836
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 1: for more sophistication, as well as portfolio managers and wealth

837
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 1: management solutions which are really tailored towards what they're interested

838
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: in and what they believe in. I think that you know,

839
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: and I've talked about this even on Twitter. I think

840
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who are gonna have a

841
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: lot of net worth locked up in something pretty much

842
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: a liquid who are looking for these strategic solutions to

843
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: protect their their wealth to make it last for a

844
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: long time. I think there are a lot more savvy

845
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: on how the market works and how cycles work then

846
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people give credit to and I think

847
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: that this market, if there's savvy individuals, especially in those spaces,

848
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: can really be capitalized on. Tracy, I think there's a

849
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 1: pretty good place to leave. Yeah, I agree, Well, Kyla

850
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: and Lily, that was a great spot to leave it.

851
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: That was absolutely fantastic and I appreciate both of your perspectives.

852
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: Is a great conversation. Thanks to both of you for

853
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: coming out on Thank you guys. That was for fun.

854
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, that was great, It was really good.

855
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: Thank you, Tracy. I thought that was great. It was

856
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: sort of like unexpectedly poignant in a way, like I

857
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate how that was going to go, but I

858
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: actually thought that was like incredibly compelling. Yeah, I was

859
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: ready for lots of meme jokes, but it got kind

860
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: of dark. I mean, so this is also something I've

861
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: been thinking about. So I feel like the lightest way

862
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: or the most optimistic way to view the retail trading phenomenon,

863
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: or you know, the meme investing slash stunk thing is

864
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: as a sort of go fund me for companies. So

865
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: for whatever reason you like this company, you don't really

866
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: care about the share price versus the fundamentals. You want

867
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: to show your support for whatever you think it represents,

868
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: so you buy into it at its darkest. I think

869
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: it's a prone to manipulation, but be also goes to

870
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: this idea of the economic disparity that both Lily and

871
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: Kyla were talking about, and this idea that people see

872
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: stocks basically as an escape plan from, you know, a

873
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: life of of economic dreariness, which is incredibly depressing. You know,

874
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting. So, like, obviously the origin of this moment

875
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 1: we identify as being March. That was a time when

876
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: people are stuck at home, maybe they're laid off. The

877
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: other overriding thing was like a period of like exit

878
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: mar It was a period of existential dread. People were

879
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: really worried, and people worried about death and sickness in

880
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: the way that at that time, in a way that

881
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: nobody was expecting, like really you know, like a deep depression,

882
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: great depression levels of anxiety. Stock marketed crash. People were

883
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: worried about their unemployment prospects. So it's notable that this

884
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: enthusiastic financial nihilism came out of a period of extreme

885
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: economic uncertainty totally and lots of people just rethinking their

886
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: lives versus the kind of life that they would like

887
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 1: to have. Um this one to a really depressing place.

888
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: Shall we leave it there? Yeah, let's leave it there. No,

889
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, the other thing and obviously

890
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: is negative, but there are some really interesting positive idea

891
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: positives about this idea of equalization. You know, there's the

892
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: proliferation of newsletters, the proliferation of quantum computing power that

893
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: used to be something that only people who had access

894
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: to a main frame at a major bank would have.

895
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: So it's not all bad, and there are some really

896
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: interesting development is Kyla pointed out, people are like getting

897
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: deeper and they're like deepening their understanding of financial instruments,

898
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: and they want to learn how monetary policy work and

899
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: the fundamentals of analysis, So it's not all negative. Sign

900
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: democratization of finance is a terribly overused um and misused term,

901
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: but I think it might actually apply in this case.

902
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: The idea that you're getting more people into this realm

903
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: who are learning about it is somewhat heartening. Um, I

904
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: guess as long as they're able to sort of And

905
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: I guess the other thing I'll just add it was interesting.

906
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: I think Lily made this point about crypto specifically, which

907
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: is that in crypto, the chat is the signal, so

908
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: it's not even a matter of can you get the

909
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: same information as the pros. It's like, if you're there chatting,

910
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: you have the signals, you have what the pro wants,

911
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: and so there is sort of like this inversion of

912
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: the typical relationship of who has the value. Well, this

913
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: is the old flows versus pros argument, which is that

914
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: if you have an asset that is driven purely by flows,

915
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: like a meme stock or a cryptocurrency or a token

916
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: of some sort, then really the guy who's spending all

917
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: his time on the Internet, who's you know, eyeball deep

918
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: in meme and on the discord chats, is going to

919
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: have a much better handle on that sort of sentiment

920
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: than someone who's not spending all that time. So yeah,

921
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: in that respect, it is sort of a reversion of

922
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: power from Wall Street to Main Street. So it's not

923
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: all bad. There's some exciting things happening in the aftermath

924
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: of the memes dog Mania. Let's leave it there. This

925
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm

926
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway.

927
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm Joe wi Isn't Though. You can follow me on

928
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: Twitter and follow our guests on Twitter. Lily Franka, She's

929
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: at Nope It's Lily and Kyla Scanlon on Twitter at

930
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: Kyla scan Follow our producer Kermen Rodriguez at Kerman Arman.

931
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: Follow the Bloomberg head of podcast, Francesca Levi at Francesca Today,

932
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: and check out all of our podcasts Bloomberg under the

933
00:53:49,320 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: handle at podcasts. Thanks for listening to