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Speaker 1: Hey lady, is doctor dom here. If you like this

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Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot

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Speaker 1: fm to get started. Hey lady, If you're looking for

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Speaker 1: an extra dose of that behind the scenes content Terry

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Speaker 1: and I put out after every episode, go to perspacepodcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. Click Wisdom Wednesdays with Terry and you will

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Speaker 1: you check it out and become a subscriber.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that having this conversation and that

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Speaker 2: a shining away from Oh, they black, they're like me,

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Speaker 2: let me choose them, let me vote for them. I

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Speaker 2: think if we don't get any other message across from

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Speaker 2: this episode, I think it's a call for black people

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Speaker 2: to be mindful that everyone that looks like us is

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Speaker 2: not for us, and to question people and their actions

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Speaker 2: and to analyze and be aware of someone's history, right, like,

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Speaker 2: do you have a history of doing things to the

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Speaker 2: detriment of black people? Or have you done well for

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Speaker 2: our community and you made a mistake or you did

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Speaker 2: something where we're like, hmm, that's questionable. Let me get

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Speaker 2: curious and understand what made you do this, what was

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Speaker 2: this for, what were your intentions? And then we can decide.

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Speaker 2: But I think that we do need to shy away

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Speaker 2: from this idea that all black people are painful.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women

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Speaker 1: like you. We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard, a college

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Speaker 1: professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 3: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 3: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 3: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space where

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Speaker 3: black women can just.

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Speaker 1: Be Hey, lady, is doctor dom here? From the Herspace podcast.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a burning question you're dying to get

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Speaker 1: feedback on? Do you want an unbiased perspective on a

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Speaker 1: situation you're facing. If so, visit herspacepodcast dot com and

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Speaker 1: click ask doctor Dom under the start here option. Every Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: I'll choose a few questions and answer them at random.

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Speaker 1: Our quote of the day rules that inhabit white bodies

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Speaker 1: can be allies and accomplices in the fight against oppression

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Speaker 1: in the same way that black folks can be agents

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Speaker 1: and accomplices in promoting, promulgulating, and protecting white supremacy. As

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Speaker 1: my grandmother once said, conjuring Zoramil Hurston, all your skin folk,

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Speaker 1: eight your kin folk, meaning that you can inhabit a

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Speaker 1: black body and be an agent of white supremacy. That

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Speaker 1: quote comes to us from Professor Lawrence Ware of Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: State University. That's a mouthful, Yes, it was a mouthful,

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Speaker 1: But I think that we needed a little bit more

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Speaker 1: context to that quote that we've all heard multiple times.

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Speaker 1: All skinfolk and can vote, And at least for me,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that quote kind of gives us a

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Speaker 1: lot more context to what this really means. So, t

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Speaker 1: are you ready to dive into this topic.

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Speaker 2: I'm ready to dive in down. We've been talking about

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Speaker 2: this on a few other episodes saying how we were

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Speaker 2: going to create an episode about this topic. And that

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Speaker 2: is a mic drop quote. It is a mouthful, but

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Speaker 2: it's so powerful and I think it really depicts exactly

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Speaker 2: what our conversation will include today. And so I think

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Speaker 2: before we dive into the conversation, right the meat of

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Speaker 2: our chat for the day, I think defining key terms

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Speaker 2: is going to be really important for us because there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of terms that are being thrown around in

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Speaker 2: the world today, and getting clarity and context and a

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Speaker 2: little bit of history for them, I think it's going

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Speaker 2: to be super important for us. So let's just start

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Speaker 2: off with the I want to say buzzword today, which

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Speaker 2: is white supremacy, right, and so, white supremacy is the

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Speaker 2: belief that white people are superior to those of all

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Speaker 2: other races, especially the black race, and therefore should dominate society.

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Speaker 2: And the thing about white supremacy is that you don't

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Speaker 2: have to be a white person to believe in uphold

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Speaker 2: white supremacy, and we also don't even have to believe it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't believe that white people are supreme

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Speaker 2: over me. However, when you think about the way our

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Speaker 2: world is set up, they are ruling shit right, They

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Speaker 2: are running shit, and I think it goes back to

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Speaker 2: what doctor Kenneth Nicole said last week, where it's like

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Speaker 2: it stems from an inferiority complex that they have, but

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Speaker 2: unfortunately they are the folks in leadership, and that's why

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Speaker 2: we are in a lot of the I want to

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Speaker 2: say turmoil as a community that we're in because of

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Speaker 2: the systems that are in place, as far as the

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Speaker 2: other ways in which we are subjugated and underrepresented in

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Speaker 2: all spheres of life.

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Speaker 1: Shaw say, yes, I agree. I think that we do

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Speaker 1: need to be clear on what white supremacy is and

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Speaker 1: also making known that you don't have to be white

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Speaker 1: to be complicit in it, because all of us have

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Speaker 1: been socialized in it. And we'll talk a lot more

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Speaker 1: about that a little bit later. But the next term

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Speaker 1: that I want us to think about is KUN. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know when I hear KUN, I know, like immediately

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Speaker 1: what comes up for me is understanding that from a

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Speaker 1: quick linguistic standpoint, it's short for raccoon, right. But I

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Speaker 1: also want us to be mindful of the historical narrative

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Speaker 1: that kun is one of the most anti black caricatures

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Speaker 1: out there, like the term, no matter who is using

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Speaker 1: it is meant to be an insult, meant to dehumanize us. Right,

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Speaker 1: Because again, coon is short for raccoon, So you're comparing

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Speaker 1: black people to an animal. And when we think about

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Speaker 1: the association of the term of what a raccoon is, right,

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Speaker 1: most people when they hear a raccoon, most people don't

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Speaker 1: like raccoons. Most people don't think raccoons are cute or

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Speaker 1: an animal that you want to be close to. Right.

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Speaker 1: You think of a raccoon and you run from that.

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Speaker 1: You think of a raccoon, you don't want a raccoon

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Speaker 1: in your yard. That's how white folks associate Black folks

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Speaker 1: when you use the term coon. We also know that

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Speaker 1: using coon in the black community is when we are

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Speaker 1: referring to someone who is not for us, right. And

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Speaker 1: so the term coon was also associated with someone who

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Speaker 1: acts childish. But if they are an adult, they are

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Speaker 1: also someone who truly does not embody what it means

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Speaker 1: to be an adult, right, does not necessarily embody any

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Speaker 1: sort of humanity. Kun also can be referred to as

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Speaker 1: someone who was lazy Historically, someone who was in like

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Speaker 1: a servant role or what would be considered a lowly position.

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Speaker 1: Kun was also similar to the term sambo, and so

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Speaker 1: the word sambo, or how it's been depicted, is also

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Speaker 1: someone who is a perpetual child, someone who does not

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Speaker 1: have the capabilities of living like an adult, and so

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Speaker 1: we would often see those two terms used interchangeably in

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Speaker 1: their depiction. Right. Sambo was also used in film as

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Speaker 1: someone who was an older, docile black person who went

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Speaker 1: along with the Jim Crow laws and etiquette. So another

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Speaker 1: way to look at it is your comb was a

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Speaker 1: sambo going bad.

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Speaker 2: That's steep. It makes me think about those images down

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Speaker 2: that many of us see when you look at the

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Speaker 2: advertisements from back in the day, or you have the

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Speaker 2: typically dark skinned black person with the big red lits

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Speaker 2: eating watermelon and just kind of like walking around like

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Speaker 2: this silly, sort of goofy, unintelligent person. And I think

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Speaker 2: about how that message was constantly portrayed in media newspapers

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Speaker 2: to communicate the status of a black person or the

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Speaker 2: attributes of a black person, And I think that's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting too to think about how the distinction

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Speaker 2: between the coon and the sambo is that the coon

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Speaker 2: was not happy with their status. They were just this lazy,

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Speaker 2: chronically idle person, whereas the sambo was more of a servant,

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Speaker 2: right right, more of a second jive exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, like a common or more

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Speaker 1: current depiction of a coon would be Uncle Ruckus from

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Speaker 1: the cartoon Boondocks. If we think about how Uncle Ruckus

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Speaker 1: was depicted in that cartoon.

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Speaker 2: Would he be a sambo or a coon? Dom if

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Speaker 2: we're thinking about that distinction, because I think, and I

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Speaker 2: know we're going to dive into this later, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of times these days, when you look at

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Speaker 2: the actual definition here, we used it maybe a little

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Speaker 2: differently than we would and I think sometimes we may

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Speaker 2: mean sambo instead of coon. Would you say Uncle Ruckus's

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Speaker 2: which one sambo or kun?

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Speaker 1: I would say he's a coon because we didn't know

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Speaker 1: him to necessarily have a job, We didn't know him

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Speaker 1: to know necessarily be doing anything.

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Speaker 2: And he was happy with his status, like he was

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Speaker 2: content doing what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But the more we talk about it and think

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Speaker 1: about it, I also wonder if we would consider him

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Speaker 1: kind of like our next term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah and uncle Tom Tom, Yeah, So let me get

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Speaker 2: that definition. And I think you're right down because when

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Speaker 2: you think about the Uncle Tom, right, it's the caricature

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Speaker 2: of a black man that is faithful, happily submissive, servant.

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Speaker 2: And I remember reading Harriet Beecher Stowe's anti slavery novel

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Speaker 2: when I was younger, Uncle Tom's Cabin, which I think

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Speaker 2: many of us think about when we reference or when

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Speaker 2: we hear Uncle Tom. And so the Tom is presented

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Speaker 2: as a smiling, wide eyed, dark skin server, so whether

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Speaker 2: it's a field worker, cook, butler, waiter, and unlike the coon,

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Speaker 2: the Tom is portrayed as a dependable worker, eager to serve.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's the difference between the Sambo and coon.

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Speaker 2: It's like, there's so many nuances, and these are just

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Speaker 2: all the ways in which they try to define and

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Speaker 2: portray black people, which, of course, as we know, this

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Speaker 2: is not us, right, this is not who we are.

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Speaker 2: But again, all skin folks and chem folks. So some

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Speaker 2: people do end up associating with these different roles, whether

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Speaker 2: they know it or not, and showing up in the

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Speaker 2: world in that way when it comes to how they

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Speaker 2: interact with white people and black people. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. So the time is often old, physically weak,

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Speaker 2: psychologically dependent on whites, for approval.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that does kind of sound like Uncle ruckets m h.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I don't Yeah. And before we

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Speaker 2: dive into the attributes of this caricature, we just want

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Speaker 2: to point out that we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 2: of those characteristics. However, the key here to remember is

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Speaker 2: that when you think about white society's standard of beauty, right,

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Speaker 2: pale skin, small lips, right, certain eurocentric features, you think

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Speaker 2: about slim bodies, it appears as though this caricature was

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Speaker 2: the total opposite of what white beauty standards were. And

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Speaker 2: we believe that was for a purpose. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and dive in, and we just want to state these

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Speaker 2: are not our particular views of black women obviously, right,

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Speaker 2: and for the record, all black is beautiful. Okay, all

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Speaker 2: right down, let's go ahead and dive in.

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Speaker 1: What is it the mammy? And I have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of conflict with that word, but like my conflict

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Speaker 1: with that word makes sense with the definition, like how

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Speaker 1: it's defined, how it's depicted, right, Yeah, So when we

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Speaker 1: think of mammy, the term, from my understanding, and for

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Speaker 1: any historians out there, you know, if we are not

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Speaker 1: getting it right or missing some factual information, please feel

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Speaker 1: free to correct us. So my understanding of it is

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Speaker 1: that during slavery, throughout the Jim Crow era that followed slavery,

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Speaker 1: the mammy image was one that served as like a political,

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Speaker 1: social economic mainstay for white America. So during slavery, the

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Speaker 1: concept of a mammy was used to show that black

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Speaker 1: women were content and happy being slaves.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And when you see the depiction of her, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the depiction of her is usually someone who has a

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Speaker 1: wide grin, who has a hearty laugh, is often overweight,

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Speaker 1: and a loyal servant. Right, even though we know that

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Speaker 1: white men were constantly raping black women, right, And we

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Speaker 1: can dive into that, like, that's a whole other thing

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Speaker 1: to dive into, right, But I think about it from

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Speaker 1: the perspective of if this is how you view black women,

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Speaker 1: then this black woman is one who is meant to

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Speaker 1: be of service for white people.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So the other piece of that that again started in

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Speaker 1: slavery and came through during the Jim Crow era and

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Speaker 1: even through parts of the Civil rights movement, right that

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Speaker 1: this mammy character was one who had great love for

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Speaker 1: her white family, but treated her own family with disdain

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Speaker 1: because she had more loyalty to the white family, right,

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Speaker 1: that she may have had children of her own, and

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Speaker 1: yet she was not supposed to be connected to them, right,

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Speaker 1: And so part of what it meant was that she

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Speaker 1: the piece that often goes unspoken of is that she

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Speaker 1: was supposed to belong to that white family again, belonging

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Speaker 1: to be the nurse maid for the white children, the

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Speaker 1: personal assistant to the white mom, and the sexual object

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Speaker 1: for the white man again, even though those were the

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Speaker 1: pieces that would go unstated, And the reality of that

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Speaker 1: is that that is not an accurate depiction.

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Speaker 2: You know what, though, dom It's interesting because when you

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Speaker 2: think about when black people take on these roles in

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Speaker 2: the media, they are typically praised for it, right, So

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Speaker 2: you think about all the slavery I mean, we donet

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Speaker 2: had enough god damn slavery movies, but they just keep

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Speaker 2: on producing them, and it's like, Okay, that's not the

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Speaker 2: epitome of black history and black people. There's more to us, right,

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Speaker 2: But when you think about Patty McDaniel playing the Mammy

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Speaker 2: or playing Mammy and Gone with the Wind and how

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Speaker 2: she became the first African American to win an Oscar

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Speaker 2: for that role, because it makes white people comfortable, right,

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Speaker 2: they were in choosing that role, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: they owned her. I think that's also interesting. And one

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Speaker 2: thing you said that I thought was really thought provoking too,

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Speaker 2: was around this idea of diminishing the sexuality and the

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Speaker 2: sexiness and the attractiveness of the black woman. And the

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Speaker 2: thing about it is, I feel like that's also some

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Speaker 2: sort of propaganda, and this is to make the black

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Speaker 2: person less appealing, because we know that oftentimes black people

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Speaker 2: are fetishized, right, like that's just a thing without any

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Speaker 2: propagated that's just it is what it is. And so

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Speaker 2: I think maybe to try to further discourage white people

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Speaker 2: from wanting to be with a black person sexually, they

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Speaker 2: try to promote these unattractive images. So that's deep. And

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Speaker 2: we're just going to dive right into our last definition

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Speaker 2: before we talk about how we have been socialized, lady,

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Speaker 2: because as you're listening, these maybe new terms for you,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's something that you're familiar with. But Dom and

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Speaker 2: I were talking before our conversation and we were like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we've been socialized too to buy into

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Speaker 2: some of this. The other terms that we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about really quickly before we dive into how we've

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Speaker 2: been socialized, because lady, as you listen, you may realize

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Speaker 2: that some of us have been programmed and socialized to

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Speaker 2: believe some of the stuff about black people. And I

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Speaker 2: do want to say that these are not terms that

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Speaker 2: we personally will be using to identify us in particular. However,

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Speaker 2: there are things here that some black folks in this

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Speaker 2: world today are sort of gravitating too, whether they know

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Speaker 2: it or not, So we think it's important to have

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Speaker 2: that conversation about that.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So the next two terms are agents and white supremacist collaborators.

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Speaker 2: And when you think about an agent, this is an

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Speaker 2: informant or liaison that helps to infiltrate Black movements and

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Speaker 2: progress in order to uphold and support white supremacy. I

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Speaker 2: think about the Black Panther Party, I think about Malcolm X,

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Speaker 2: I think about Martin Luther King Junior. You know, I

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Speaker 2: was watching a documentary Dom and have seen that there

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Speaker 2: were black agents that kind of went into the mix

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Speaker 2: and they, you know, worked with the FBI and infiltrated

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Speaker 2: those movements. Right, and then you have white supremacist collaborators,

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Speaker 2: and those are basically the same as agents. However they

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Speaker 2: may not be infiltrating a specific group, but they support

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Speaker 2: an uphold white supremacy. So those are some of the

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Speaker 2: key terms that we think it's important to talk about

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Speaker 2: before we dive deeper into this conversation about how all

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Speaker 2: my skin folk ain't pen folk. So dom wou chow.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot, right, it's a lot. So how would

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Speaker 2: you say you've been socialized over the years, because I

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Speaker 2: know I've been, oh child, mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to be clear in stating ahead

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Speaker 1: of time that I know that I will probably ruffle

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Speaker 1: some feathers of folks in New Orleans and in the

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Speaker 1: whole state of Louisiana with what I'm about to say next. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just want to be clear in that what I

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Speaker 1: will say in terms of socialization growing up as a

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Speaker 1: child in New Orleans is the socialization around separating black

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Speaker 1: folks runs deep, right. So Creole identity in New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana, when I step back and think about it,

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Speaker 1: to me, it was a way to create division and

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Speaker 1: separation within the black community, right, because we know that

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Speaker 1: keep people who identify as Creole are descendants of French,

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Speaker 1: Native American or indigenous to the America's people, Spanish people, right,

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Speaker 1: in addition to people of the continent that were brought

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Speaker 1: to Louisiana, right. And when I say the continent, I

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Speaker 1: mean Africa. Right. What ends up happening is that you

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Speaker 1: have a group of people who, from a physical outward appearance,

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Speaker 1: would pass a brown paper back test and are The

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Speaker 1: term that I would commonly hear in Louisiana is passe blanc,

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Speaker 1: meaning that they could pass for white. And historically that

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Speaker 1: was looked at as a sign of prestige, and you

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Speaker 1: were considered more beautiful, right. And when I step back

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Speaker 1: and think about what that really means, what that means

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Speaker 1: means is when I look at it from a white

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Speaker 1: indoctrination lens, it means that you were more closely aligned

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Speaker 1: with whiteness. And so for me growing up, that's how

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Speaker 1: we were socialized to think that if you could pass

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Speaker 1: that brown paper bag test, then you were better than

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Speaker 1: and if you could say that you had Creole heritage,

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Speaker 1: then you were better than. I can like even distinctly

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Speaker 1: recall moments in having conversation in high school or in

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Speaker 1: college with friends and we were discussing, like guys that

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Speaker 1: we were interested in the guys that we had crushes on, right,

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Speaker 1: And one thing that was noted, One thing that one

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Speaker 1: of my friends pointed out to me was that, oh,

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Speaker 1: you have a creole complex. And I don't remember if

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Speaker 1: that's what she called it, but that's essentially what it was,

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Speaker 1: was that, like the do that I was attracted to

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Speaker 1: were lighter than a paper bag. Right, And as a

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Speaker 1: grown ass woman, now I can step back and think

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Speaker 1: about that and think about, like, fuck, like what kind

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Speaker 1: of socialization is that that I was under? Like that

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Speaker 1: my natural gaze in terms of romantic physical sexual attraction

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Speaker 1: was towards men who black men, because I was clear

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Speaker 1: that I wanted a black man, right, But within that

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Speaker 1: they still were like closely aligned with whiteness. And there's

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Speaker 1: other layers and you know, in terms of my socialization.

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Speaker 1: But I think right now, like that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: like I think about that like doesn't often get talked about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, dom, I think it's the truth, and I think

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Speaker 2: that that's the truth for many of us. I can

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Speaker 2: definitely relate to that too. I will say there tends

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Speaker 2: to sometimes be I remember feeling shameful about having this

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Speaker 2: conversation and just stating how even though I'm so pro

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Speaker 2: black now, like I love myself and I love my people.

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Speaker 2: I was definitely socialized and there was a point where

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Speaker 2: I was to some extent many of us are whole conspirators,

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Speaker 2: Like we're participating in white supremacy, right because this is

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Speaker 2: the system that we're in, and some people just do.

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Speaker 2: And so I do want to say that, like if

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Speaker 2: you felt some of the same ways that we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: like don't feel shameful, and we have been programmed, like

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Speaker 2: this is propaganda, is for real, Like these systems that

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Speaker 2: are in place to impact our psyche. When you think

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Speaker 2: about advertisements and how long and just the depiction of beauty,

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Speaker 2: I mean it runs deep. So anyway down I said,

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Speaker 2: I had to say I definitely had a similar experience.

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Speaker 2: I remember being in third grade. Had to be third grade.

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Speaker 2: There was a little boy I used to like so

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Speaker 2: much to do was Eddie, and I was always my literal,

380
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Speaker 2: my literal statement about who I wanted to be with

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Speaker 2: was like I wanted to be light skinned, curlier and

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Speaker 2: pretty eyes. Oh god, I just cringed saying that, like

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Speaker 2: that is literally that was beauty to me and then

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Speaker 2: even myself, I always like looked at the light skinned

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Speaker 2: black girls with I want to say, like a wavy

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Speaker 2: texture hair, you know we have. We won't believe in

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Speaker 2: good hair bad hair, okay, because that's just a fallacy

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Speaker 2: right there. I won't believe in good hair bad hair.

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Speaker 1: If the girls out your head, it's good.

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Speaker 2: There were good. If you got hair on your head,

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Speaker 2: it's good. And if you rock in the baldy that's

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Speaker 2: good too. Okay. But I do remember the girls with

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Speaker 2: the wavier hair that was easier to manage than mine,

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Speaker 2: and like with lighter skin, especially they had light eyes.

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Speaker 2: It was just like, oh my god, that's the depiction

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Speaker 2: of beauty. And that's also close to the whiteness, right

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Speaker 2: And so I think about that just my own identity

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Speaker 2: in general. I think about also getting into the I

399
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: want to say, the maybe less educated or the low

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Speaker 2: income blacks versus the wealthier or the bougie blacks. I

401
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 2: do think that as I find the ladder and education

402
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Speaker 2: there tends to be this sort of I want to say,

403
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Speaker 2: silent I don't even know what to call it, just

404
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: the silent understanding that all the educated blacks were somehow

405
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Speaker 2: better than blacks that don't have an education or that

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Speaker 2: might be in the hood or there might be faced

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00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: with a certain adversity right now when that's not true, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think that there are so many systems in

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Speaker 2: place that would have us to hit us against one another. Lady,

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Speaker 2: you haven't heard of the Willie Lynch speech or the

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Speaker 2: Willy Lynch syndrome. Whether or not Willy Lynch was a

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Speaker 2: real person. The shit that's in that damn speech is

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Speaker 2: real shit. Talks about colorism and really how to maintain

414
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Speaker 2: and control slaves by way of separating and pointing out

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Speaker 2: these little differences that make us begin to question are

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00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: we really the same even though we may look the same. Right,

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Speaker 2: So I say all that to just say that it

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00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: runs deep down. Yes, I've definitely been socialized. I'm also

419
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: aware that we each have our own journeys when it

420
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Speaker 2: comes to our journey of consciousness, right, and how we

421
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: identify as black people. We're all different and we all

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Speaker 2: have different experiences that can tributes to what we believe.

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Speaker 1: And that makes me want to read a quote from

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Speaker 1: France Banon from his book Black Skinned White Mass Banan says,

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Speaker 1: and he was a psychiatrist. He says, all colonize people

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Speaker 1: in other words, people in whom an inferiority complex has

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00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: taken root, whose local culture originality has been committed to

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Speaker 1: the grave position themselves in relation to the civilizing language,

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Speaker 1: i e. The metropolitan culture. The more the colonized has

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Speaker 1: assimilated the cultural values of the metropolis, the more they

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00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: will have escaped the bush. The more he rejects his blackness,

432
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: and the bush, the wider he will become. So again,

433
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's about the idea of colonization, all colonized people. So,

434
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: no matter what part of the world you are in,

435
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: if you are in a place that has been colonized,

436
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: then you are in a place where part of the indoctrination,

437
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: part of what it means to assimilate, means that you

438
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: buy into the colonizer's culture.

439
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: We kind of have to write in order to climb

440
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: the corporate ladder, right in order to be successful, because

441
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: most white people run the systems and institutions that were

442
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: part of right. So right, how do we make white

443
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: people comfortable? So I guess down before we dive into

444
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: this next topic around like how does this quote play

445
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: out in everyday life? One thing that came up for

446
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: me was like, damn, so are we coons and sandboats?

447
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: And again I'm using the definition just for clarity's sake. Right,

448
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: we know what it means, right, So are we acting

449
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: in those ways? Are we being a caricature of the

450
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: coon and the sandbow when we are finding the corporate ladder? Right?

451
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: Because one of the other things that France says in

452
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: his book is like he says, the black man possesses

453
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: two dimensions, one with his fellow blacks, the other with

454
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: his whites. And a lot of that is because of colonization.

455
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: So because we play the game. See, I don't know,

456
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: it's tricky.

457
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. It's about survival, right, Yeah, So I

458
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: think what it is in terms of our survival, it's

459
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: about figuring out how to play the game so that

460
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: we can live right without denying our humanity. And part

461
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: of not denying our humanity to me means recognizing how

462
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: we've been indoctrinated and identifying ways in which we can

463
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: still be truly connected to our heritage, to our roots,

464
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: to our history, to who we are as a people

465
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: in positive ways, and also recognizing for all of us

466
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: that it's a journey that we're all on different spectrums.

467
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: Because again, who I am right now. How I relate

468
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: to my blackness now was not a saying twenty thirty

469
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: years ago. I definitely, in this moment feel way more

470
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: connected to my blackness. I get that. It's also we

471
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: have to put it in a historical context that if

472
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: we think about the eighties, nineties, early two thousands, that's

473
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: post civil rights erar right. So the assumption at that

474
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: time was that we're in a pulse racial America, right,

475
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: that we're not necessarily having to fight for who we are.

476
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: We just know who we are, and we don't have

477
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: to be out there proclaiming that we're black. We just

478
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: know that we're black. And really we don't need to

479
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: claim that we're black. We just need to focus on

480
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: uniting America. Can we all be just Americans? Right? And

481
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: so if that's the space, the context in which a

482
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: lot of us may have grown up and through that generation,

483
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: then to me it also kind of makes sense why

484
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: we may not have been as connected to fighting for

485
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: our blackness as someone who is a child of the fifties, sixties,

486
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 1: and seventies. And so then fast forward to where we

487
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: are now in what I would venture to say is

488
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: a post Obama America, where our blackness appears to be

489
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: even more under attach than it's been in decades. Then

490
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: it becomes a fight for our blackness, a fight for

491
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: our identity. And so even if we may have known

492
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: that we were black, now we're in a space where

493
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: we are going to speak up on it, where we

494
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: have to speak up on it.

495
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: Yes, the stakes are so high right now, and it's

496
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: so in our face that it's just it's hard to ignore,

497
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: even for people that have ignored it. And when you

498
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: think about just the quote of you know all my

499
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: skin folk and kinfolk, and how that plays out today,

500
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: it just makes me think about what we see going

501
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: on in the world right now, right where there are

502
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: black people that are in spaces of leadership, and when

503
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: you sit back and you just watch their moves, you're

504
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: just like, m do you really have the best interest

505
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: of our community in mind?

506
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: Right? Like?

507
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: Are you misleading black people? Are you trying to protect

508
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: black people? It makes you ask those questions. And I

509
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: think about Daniel Cameron, right, I'm gonna just pass the

510
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: mice over to you right now, because I know that

511
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: you have some strong feelings. I mean, I think many

512
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: of us have strong feelings about him. But that's someone

513
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: in particular, you know, the Attorney General of Kentucky, and

514
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: we think about the way that he's handled the Breonna

515
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: Taylor murder and the lack of accountability, and it's just like, Okay,

516
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure that people in Kentucky at one point and

517
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: I think about this, it's like, it's not about what

518
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: party you're voting, right, Like, no, we're not getting into

519
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: your political life. But when you see a black person,

520
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: I think oftentimes not many of us are in a

521
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: state of Oh, it's a black person. They're doing something great.

522
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: They look like me, let's vote for them, let's support them.

523
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: But I think now more than ever, we need to

524
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: question what is this person standing for? What is this

525
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: person doing for our community?

526
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: Right?

527
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: Are they doing things for other communities and excluding the

528
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: black community? Do they even like black people? Like I

529
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: think we need to begin to question that, because again,

530
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: all skin folks ain't kim folks. Everyone that's black it

531
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: does not support black people. And sometimes they do things

532
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 2: to undermine our community. Sometimes they are agents. Sometimes they

533
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: are white supremacist collaborators. And it's important for us more

534
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: than ever to support people who have our best interest

535
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: at heart, even if those people happen to not be

536
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: black people. Because at the end of the day, what

537
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: is the goal. Is the goal to have a black

538
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: face and a high place that does nothing for black people?

539
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Or is it to have an ally or someone in

540
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: a high place that's doing something that's going to benefit

541
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: our community?

542
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: Right?

543
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: Are we getting resources? Are we getting laws that are

544
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: going to protect a black woman who's in her home,

545
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: minding her business who gets shot down call a duty

546
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: style and the officers have no accountability, you know what

547
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: I mean? Right? But what is the goal for us?

548
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: The goal for us is unity? Right, because we cannot

549
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: truly conquer this white inferiority compl if we do not

550
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: have unity, And we're not gonna have unity until until

551
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: we truly are focused on the same thing, right, until

552
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: we all have the same goal. And to me, I

553
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: don't believe that certain black folks that we see in

554
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: prominent positions are united with us.

555
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: Right.

556
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: So I think about Daniel Cameron, right, Hell, I even

557
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: think about Jerome Adams, men like that. And then our homegirl,

558
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: let me not call her my homegirl, let me back

559
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: up off that, because again she ain't can't vote Candae

560
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: Owens for me, those are folks who I truly am

561
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: curious to how are they really thinking? What is their

562
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: ulterior motive? She consistently condemns black people and tries to

563
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: not align herself with anything being black, anything about blackness.

564
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: Daniel Cameron, who refuses to publicly acknowledge the murder of

565
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: Breonna Taylor right, refuses to call it a murder, refuses

566
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: to give her justice and wait. And then you know

567
00:36:50,000 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: Jerome Adams who initially put out videos blaming black folks

568
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: for contracting COVID when he knows full well the systematic

569
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: issues that are at play in the current administration that

570
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: he is a part of that contributes to the lack

571
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: of help and resources that we receive. People like that

572
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: are not our ken volte and they will not be

573
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: our kin folk. They will continue to want to dissociate

574
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: themselves from us, right, because again, my assumption, based on

575
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: what we know about this path to whiteness, my assumption

576
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: is that for them, in order to be more closely

577
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: aligned than accepted by white folks, they have to disassociate

578
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: themselves from anything being black, with being black, right, And

579
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: those are the type of people that we do not need,

580
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, you use the term agent, and I think

581
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: about what it means to infiltrate an organization, right, And

582
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: sometimes I do wonder if there are black folks who

583
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 1: are infiltrating white spaces to truly learn about how some

584
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: of the most racist white folks think to help move

585
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: us forward, right, because to truly move forward, to truly

586
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: win a war, you have to know how your enemy thinks.

587
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: Spot on. Now, that makes me think of the Black clansmen.

588
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: There are some black people who have done that over

589
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: the years. Right, You go into lon stalwarth you go

590
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: into those spaces, you get the game, you get the information,

591
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: and then you share it with your community so that

592
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: we can advance and understand just how sick this system is.

593
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: And based on what you've said. Now, I know we've

594
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: talked about this before, and I'm definitely been conflicted, like, damn,

595
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: should we call out black people that don't mean us

596
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: any good at this point in the journey. And again,

597
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: we may evolve and come to a different place in

598
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: this conversation, but I mean, I just don't understand how

599
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: we can sit quietly when the stakes are so high,

600
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: Like when you understand I would definitely encourage you lady,

601
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 2: if you have the mental bandwidth and you know your

602
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: mental health to support it enough to look into Breonna

603
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: Taylor's case, I mean, just look at the details, and

604
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: it's so sickening, Like there's no way that we can

605
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: support a black person that's going to try to get

606
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: these officers off for killing an innocent black woman like

607
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: that is unacceptable. You know, I think the buck stops

608
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 2: here when you think about who we're willing to support

609
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: just because of the commonality of the color of our skin,

610
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: right if that's the only commonality that we have. And

611
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: so there are a few questions that don and I

612
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: want to dive into. We don't have all the answers

613
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: because we're just, like you were, trying to figure this

614
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: thing out as well, and it's definitely a sensitive topic.

615
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: But I guess the first question would be what do

616
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: we do about the other black folks that aren't for us?

617
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: And when I think about that, the thing that comes

618
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: to mind for me the first thing is like, Okay,

619
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm trying to exercise my emotional intelligence and also being

620
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: a very curious person, I want to lean into curiosity,

621
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: like I would love to just chat with this person

622
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: and have an understanding, like what makes this person go

623
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: out and do things that are against the black community. Right, So,

624
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: whether it's self hate, whether it's just yo, I don't

625
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: fuck with black people, whether it's I just really like

626
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: white people and they just want to fit into one

627
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: of those caricatures that we talked about earlier. I want understanding,

628
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: and I may not ever understand it, but I just

629
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: want to get like, how do you do that?

630
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: You know?

631
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: I think about when there was just a report or

632
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: an audio from Donald Trump that was released stating that

633
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: he knew the extent and how damaging COVID nineteen could

634
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: be for the world back and I think they said

635
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,959
Speaker 2: January or February, and this just came out like last month,

636
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 2: and so he went on television and he continuously stayed

637
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: to something that he didn't believe and something that he

638
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: knew wasn't true. And I think about people who do

639
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: things like that, and I'm just like, I don't get it, because,

640
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: like you said, you need to know your enemy and

641
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: know their game plan in order to fight against them.

642
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: So I think that's the first thing for me. I

643
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: think number two, if you really care about someone and

644
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: you're like, yo, this person is not for black people.

645
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: You can definitely try to educate them, but sometimes you

646
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: have to leave people where they are. And if someone

647
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: is dedicated to living a life where they are trying

648
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: to uphold white supremacy, even as a black person, I

649
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: personally would withdraw my support from that person because at

650
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: the end of the day, we have two very different views.

651
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: And again I'm going to say this again, the stakes

652
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: are so high, Like black lives are at the yes

653
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: are on the line here, and so when it's something

654
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: that's serious, this isn't a matter of like which ice

655
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: cream do you like? Oh, we like different ice creams.

656
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 2: We can still be friends. No, if I'm trying to

657
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: fight to uplift and support black people and we're being

658
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: murdered out in the streets, and you know, we have

659
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: so much against us as a community, and you're willing

660
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: to tell lies, you're willing to promote hate, we just

661
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: we can't do this, you know what I mean. So

662
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: those are the things that come to mind for me.

663
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: Now I'm for question number one.

664
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, all of that. I think part of that is

665
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: knowing your capacity, right. So if we know that we

666
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: don't have it in us, right, we're not in that

667
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: space because I hear you on the what you said

668
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: about like being curious and wanting to kind of lean

669
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: into that. But I also know that depending on what

670
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: type of work you do, you may not have and

671
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: I say work, but I also think about just what

672
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: you may be encountering or engaging in in your personal life.

673
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: You may not have the capacity to necessarily lean into

674
00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: curiosity and understanding. And that's okay too. So I think

675
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: it's about in terms of answering that particular question, the

676
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: way I think about it is understanding what your own

677
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: capacity is in terms of interacting with those people who

678
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,959
Speaker 1: clearly aren't for us. So if it means that you're

679
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: not in a space to engage them, then know that

680
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: that's okay. But I think the key is really just

681
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: knowing where you are, knowing what your capacity is, so

682
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: then you can determine how you can or can engage

683
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: skinfolk that ain't our kinfolk.

684
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 2: That sounds good to me now.

685
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: And so then when we think about question number two

686
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: of well, how can us real ones out there? How

687
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: can we how can we unite? And I don't know

688
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: if I necessarily have an answer for that right because

689
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: you know, even earlier as I was talking about, like

690
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: we really need a unite in front, I truly don't

691
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 1: have an answer on how to do that. I think

692
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: I recognize that each of us has our own role

693
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: to play in this, and like we've mentioned in multiple episodes,

694
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: some of us are meant to be on the front lines,

695
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: some of us are meant to be behind the scenes,

696
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: and some of us are just somewhere in the middle.

697
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: And some of us are even sitting back in the

698
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: audience just watching. And so maybe that may be part

699
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: of how we unite, right, is everybody being clear on

700
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: what their role is and what is the responsibility or

701
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: expectations of being in that role. I don't know, what

702
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: do you think.

703
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: I'm with you, dond It makes me think about, well, one,

704
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: let me just say, for many of us, we don't

705
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: really have And I hate to say this because I

706
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: feel like it comes from a place of like hopelessness

707
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: that I promise you I'm hopeful, but at the same time,

708
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm also very mindful that many of us we don't

709
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: have I want to say, luxury to sit around and

710
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: think about, Okay, how can we build for our community

711
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: when we're moving from tragedy to tragedy, we still have

712
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: to maintain our livelihood, Like it's exhausting to try to

713
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 2: be at war when one you don't want to be

714
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: at war. I just want to I just want to

715
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: live my best life. Like if this were up to me,

716
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: I would just be living my best life, working doing

717
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: the things that I love, and boom, I be at peace.

718
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: But this is the skin color that I've come into

719
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: this world into, and we are being attacked on so

720
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: many fronts, and so I feel like I have an

721
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: obligation to do something for the community. And lady, if

722
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: you're filming that same way. We did a really good

723
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: episode season six, episode ten called Dear Black People, This

724
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: will not be our undoing, and this is where we

725
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: introduced how we fight the Black plight. And plight was

726
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: an acronym for different potential roles that people could play.

727
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: I mean, personally, domb I think I just want to

728
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: do more reading and studying to figure out, like how

729
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: can we get on the same page other communities do

730
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: it right so we can do it too. And the

731
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: plight just is an acronym for you have political workers,

732
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: you have light workers, you have investors and funders, you

733
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: have great protectors hawks, and then you have teachers and

734
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: researchers and we walk through what each of those were.

735
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: But it makes me think about the book Power Nomics

736
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: by doctor Claude Anderson, and he talks about just stabilizing

737
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: Black Americans as far as our economic base and just

738
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: building our own communities. And so that's a good book

739
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: that I have back here in my library that I

740
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: haven't really had the time to really dive into in

741
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: a strategic way. And so I guess for me, don

742
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 2: one of the biggest things that I am really proud

743
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: of and one thing that helps me with my mental

744
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: health but then also makes me feel as though I'm

745
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: doing something for our community is the podcast. I think

746
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: just being a light in the world at this stage

747
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: in my life, that is what I can do. And

748
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: so uplifting our community, showing us love, you know, doing

749
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: good by us, and shit, just focusing on my mental health.

750
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: I feel like those are the things that I can

751
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: do at this point life. But one day I do

752
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: hope to do more, you know, once I have the

753
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: bandwidth and the capacity to do that. But right now, boom,

754
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: that's what it looks like for me.

755
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: But you don't have to push to do more because

756
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: what you're doing right now is enough. But I think

757
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: that's the thing of like how we get and this

758
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: is the topic for a whole other day, of how

759
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: we get pulled into it, right, of thinking that we

760
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: have to constantly be working and doing more. This podcast

761
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: is a lot, right, And I mean that in the

762
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: sense that we are making a significant contribution and it's

763
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: a labor of love. And if literally this is the

764
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: only thing that you ever do for the rest of

765
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: your life, right, like literally the only thing, and we

766
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: know that's not the reality, but literally, even if that, like,

767
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: let's say that that was the reality, right, that your

768
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: only contribution to humanity is this podcast, that is enough.

769
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: And so I think in terms of how we figure

770
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: out what our role is, right, it starts with knowing

771
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: that what we do, what we are contributing to our

772
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: community is enough. If you are doing anything to uplift

773
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: the community, that's enough. And so to kind of wrap

774
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: this all up, right, going back to our title of

775
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: like how all skin folk ain't kinfolk? And what do

776
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: we really do about that?

777
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: Right?

778
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: I think history has kind of shown us that this continues,

779
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: and it'll show up in various forms and so I

780
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: don't know if we're going to ever find a solution

781
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: to it, but I do think that it's important for

782
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: those of us who truly are kin folks to know

783
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: our role and to know what it means for us

784
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: as an individual to be black, right, recognizing that it's

785
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: a social construct, but also identifying for ourselves what does

786
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: that mean to us? And then holding people accountable, people

787
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: in positions of power, holding them accountable for uplifting and

788
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: contributing to us if they are saying that they align

789
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: with being black.

790
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 2: And so, lady, we're going to leave you with these

791
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: questions again that we do not have the answers to,

792
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: but just to kind of circle back on the questions

793
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: that you can ponder if you want to share with

794
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 2: us in the common section of our posts, because again,

795
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: this is something that we're going to do as well.

796
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: What do we do about the other black folks that

797
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: aren't for us?

798
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: Right?

799
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: That's a legit question. What do we do? And then

800
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: how can the real black people write the real ones

801
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: that are kin folk? How can we unite? Like Dom said,

802
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 2: a thing black is a social construct. Some black people

803
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: don't identify with being black, right, how do we support

804
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: our community and what do we call ourselves right? And then,

805
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: last but not least, how do we hold black officials

806
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: and celebrities accountable? Hey lady, it's Terry here from the

807
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: Hurstby's Podcast and I have a question for you. Do

808
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: you want to start your own podcast? Have you been

809
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: thinking to yourself? You know what, I want to start

810
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: a podcast, but you just haven't taken the leap. If

811
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: that's you, I got you. I'm hosting a free podcasting

812
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: masterclass where I'm going to teach you how to create

813
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: your own podcasts from start to finish. So visit Terry

814
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 2: Limax dot com and click on the pink link in

815
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: the middle of your screen and register for my free

816
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: podcasting masterclass. Today's episode is short of you with motivation, inspiration,

817
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 2: or even a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA

818
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 2: moments or if you feel comforted throughout the episode, lady,

819
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: please leave us a review and tell us what we're

820
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: doing right so we can stay on track. Also, we

821
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe on

822
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: iTunes and visit Herspace podcast dot com and enter your

823
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: email address to get updates about our live events and

824
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 2: all the new beginnings that we have for this year.

825
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note

826
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: that our show may contain conversations about self health, advice,

827
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no

828
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal

829
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you are

830
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: someone you know is in need of mental health care,

831
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today

832
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 1: or contact your insurance provider.

833
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

834
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

835
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: Twitter at Herspace podcast or check out our website at

836
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat after me.

837
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 2: Although my plans may change, I will stay committed to

838
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: my purpose.

839
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week, Lady