WEBVTT - Is College For Dummies? #548 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.800 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:26.240 today we're asking the question is college for dummies. Did 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.400 you ever purchased one of those books whatever for dummies 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:34.040 like coding for Dummies, Driving for Dummies, Dating for Dummies 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.879 in high school? Probably could have used it back in 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.520 the day. Um, mom, I'm gonna swing by the books 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:44.240 a million and pick up girls for Dummies. Uh No, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:46.040 this is we are going to talk about college during 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.480 this episode, and with with fall basically right around the corner, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:52.120 we felt that this was a good time for us 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.800 to revisit the topic of college and specifically if it's 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.360 gonna make a lot of sense for folks. And I 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.400 think there might be some folks who are listening and thinking, 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.280 you know, thanks a lot of guys, But I'm a 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.640 recent college grad where I'm a young professional. The fact is, 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.240 I guarantee you know more high schoolers than we do. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.280 Uh And so I think this is worth listening to 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.199 because you can help guide them through this critical time 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.000 in their in their lives, or at least send them 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.560 the link to this episode. Well, in the very least, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.240 there's just a lot of interesting information. I feel like 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.160 a lot has changed when it comes to the value 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.840 proposition the college offers and it's just not as much 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:28.800 of a slam dunk because it used to be uh 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:31.360 years ago. So we're gonna kind of get into that 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.200 in this episode. We're gonna kind of help you ask 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.360 some questions, whether you're a parent or a high school student, 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.200 or someone who knows one of those people about like 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.679 maybe how to navigate the process of thinking through the 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.840 value that higher education offers or doesn't offer for you. Yeah, 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.680 and if you're a parent, you also might be thinking, well, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.440 my kids are too young. I mean, that's that's kind 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:50.880 of where we are. Kids are pretty young. But the 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.520 fact is this is something you should start thinking through now, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.760 because I don't think you get to a point to 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.000 where you say, okay, it is now time for higher education, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.600 like higher age. Educating your kid is a process like 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.320 that is what you are living. It's not an event. 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.120 It's not appeared in time when you're now all at 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.080 once going to make the right decision. It's not a 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.160 singular event, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.480 I think there are steps that we can take now 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.320 to start guiding our kids as they are learning things 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.160 as we are shaping them to become adults. Yeah, and 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.480 it starts to help inform those conversations about Like literally 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.079 the other day, my nine year old said, Dad, are 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.600 you saving money from my college? And so it prompted 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.640 this opportunity to say, like, yeah, I'm saving some but 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.480 it's not it's not a high priority for me. I've 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.400 got these other things that are a bigger priority. And 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.320 college is kind of expensive. But the cool thing is 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.040 there are other ways to pay for it if you 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.840 want to go. And by the way, it might not 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.120 even be the best move. We'll see kind of as 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:41.720 we get closer to that time. That's kind of the 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.720 conversation we're gonna be having with you, dear listeners before 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.440 we get into it. Man, we you and I. We 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.880 got to share a beer with the listener yesterday. He uh, 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.960 his parents live here locally, he lives out west, but 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.760 he was in town. Hit us up and we're like, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.760 you know what, we actually are free to grab a beer. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.440 And it just reminded me of how great our job is. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.560 And I mean, who else basically gets to sit around 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.119 read the things that are interested in all day, talk 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.280 about it and record there's thoughts into a microphone, all 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.800 while doing it with your best bud. We truly do have, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.919 I think the best job in the world, and we 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:15.959 would not be able to have this job, this profession 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.320 if it wasn't for all of you listeners out there. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.320 So in connecting with those listeners, whether it's some sort 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.000 of listener event that we get to do, or you know, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.640 when we meet them randomly in public, or when somebody 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.040 reaches out like like Andy did, where we get to 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.239 have a beer just kind of one on one and chat. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.760 That was man, that's so much fun. That's one of 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:34.679 the best parts is kind of the community or even 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.320 if it just just the emails, the Facebook group, like, 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.040 the different ways that you're able to engage with the 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.880 folks that are part of the community is I mean, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.280 it's a huge part of the joy I derived from 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.600 doing this. It ranks up there for me as well, 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.640 but it certainly I think those social interactions rank higher 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.040 for you than they did for me. But that doesn't 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.200 mean I'm any less thankful, uh, And it makes me 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.440 think just how we wouldn't have this show without all 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.400 the listeners out there. Literally you let's need to this 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.280 podcast is what helps to pay our bills, so a 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.120 huge thank you for that. It also helps us to 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.680 pay for the craft beer that you and I get 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.040 to enjoy most of the episodes. We we don't drink 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.240 every episode, if you're wondering, Our Friday flights are a 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.200 bit shorter and so we avoid cracking open a cold 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.279 one then. But every Monday, every Wednesday we're drinking a 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.240 craft beer, and today we're enjoying a food or beer 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.080 by Southern Brewing. I'm really looking forward to sharing our 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:28.679 thoughts on this one at the end of the episode. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.920 And if you don't know what food er is, that's 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.920 a funky kind of word. We'll talk about that at 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.280 the end to um. But Matt, let's let's get out too. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.880 Let's uh, let's tackle this question. Is college for dummies? 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.159 For dummies? We talked a lot about the middle class 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.560 last week, which was I thought a really fun episode 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.800 and going to college it's kind of been the bedrock 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.600 right of creating this modern American middle class that we've 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.120 had for the past decades. But I guess the question 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.159 is is college is it's still the predominant path forward 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.560 to being in the middle class in the future. That 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.039 is some thing that we want to tackle that question. Yeah, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.919 because it makes me think about the reality that, for 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.200 the longest time, Matt, most parents have basically no problem 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.120 with their kids playing football. Right. It was an organized 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.680 sport that allowed kids, kids to develop their athletic prowess, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.720 to develop friendships, to become more disciplined, Bill's teamwork. Yeah, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.360 it seems like it's mostly a good thing. Even some 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.520 kids get scholarships to go to the colleges of their choice. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.000 Kids who are there's a lot of benefits, particularly good 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.200 at football. Then yeah, I could go to a big 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.279 school and get their college paid for. But but here's 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.160 the thing. Yeah, the value proposition of your kid playing 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.440 football has changed quite a bit in recent years, right, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.080 as we've learned more about CT, which I didn't know 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.680 what it stood for, but it stands for chronic traumatic 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:50.240 and it's a philopathy. I think you're saying, Well, it's 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.520 the more we know about c T now, the more 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.760 it's called into question whether or not it makes sense 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.080 for your kid to participate in let's say, Pop Warner 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.480 Football League. Right, and so we've seen something like a 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.760 thirty five percent fewer kids playing the sport now than 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.279 played ten to fifteen years ago. It's it's just there's 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.640 a dramatic change in perception, and understandably so. And we 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.640 think that actually higher education and recent things happening in 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.120 that space has revealed some striking similarities where where you're 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.120 gonna want to think twice before you send your kid 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.880 out on the football field at the young age of ten, eleven, twelve. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.480 You might want to think twice if you are a 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.159 high school student or a parent of high school student 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.000 before you just, without thinking send your kid to you know, 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.080 their local public university or to some sort of private 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.320 school the town of state. That's right, yeah, you know, 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.680 And we're certainly not encouraging a widespread revolt against higher education, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.159 but it's understandable that folks want to know if the 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.359 value proposition is still there when it comes to getting 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.080 a degree. Right, it's college actually still worth it? Uh, 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.560 It's it's clearly not the slam dunk path that it 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.000 used to be thanks to a variety of reasons that 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.800 we're going to talk about today. The first one has 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.040 been well documented and is most definitely the number one 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.600 reason to reconsider taking that path. Student loans they are 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.120 at insane levels right now and Uh, there's problem people there. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.360 Oh yeah, dude. Uh, and they're now equal to more 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.000 than one point seven trillion dollars overall. Uh, that debt 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.200 it spread across forty five million folks, and there are 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.800 quite a few among that number who feel that birden 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.679 more acutely, you know, it's a it's it feels like 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.160 a like a millstone around their neck, right, preventing them 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.200 from from all sorts of formally normal young adult activities 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.440 like just simply being able to invest, but even getting married, 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.400 starting a family, buying a home because they already have 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.480 a mortgage payment, that is, their student loans that they're 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.280 paying off. Still, any one percent of adults with student 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.880 loans say that they've delayed some of these life milestones 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.360 because of their debts. So it's having a real tangible 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.840 impact on what our lives look like to me. And 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.480 even in the past ten, twelve, fifteen years, like we've 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.120 seen kind of the amount, the average amount of debt 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.280 that a normal student comes out of school with just skyrocket, 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.600 which can and should change your perspective on whether or 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.720 not it makes sense to go in that direction. So, yeah, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.240 student loans are obviously one of the number one problems. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.160 One of the number one reasons to reconsider college and 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.360 and to ask the question if it's if it's a 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.960 dumb move or not well, and another one is is just, yeah, 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.200 the higher cost of college in general, because we've been 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.240 talking about inflation quite a bit, and you know, prices 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.640 at the grocery store have gone up quite a bit 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:30.040 in the past twelve eighteen months. You know, use cars, 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.880 new cars, all that stuff. Those things have taken off 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.200 like a rocket in terms of price in just the 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.320 past couple of years. But when you actually zoom out, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.320 there's certain segments of our economy where inflation has been 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.080 impacting us severely for not just the past couple of years, 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.000 but for the past couple of decades. Uh. And so yeah, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.000 the college, the staring cost of college takes the cake, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.319 even beating out right the awful increases that we've seen 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.320 even in our health care system. Um. And there's just 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.840 so many reasons for that, but easy access to those 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.120 student loans that are widely available from the federal government 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.520 is at least a part of that reason. And being 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.040 able to easily borrow more and more money it means 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.199 that colleges can hire more administrators they can build nicer buildings, 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.920 they can inflate their costs more than they would otherwise 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.439 be able to if there wasn't easy money for teenagers 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.880 to get in order to go get that higher education. Right, 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.160 It's it's not that those additional dollars are significantly increasing 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.880 the quality of the education either. We'll talk about that later. 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.560 They're they're not. And plus, you can't shake these student loans. 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.839 You can't. When you pay more for college and you 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.559 take on more debt to get that degree, that debt 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.320 sticks with you through thick and thin, even if you 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.640 file for bankruptcy. It's like this financial tar that sticks 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.040 to you for for basically the rest of your life. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.920 You can't shake them. That's definitely a hindrance to higher 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.240 education or college specifically making sense, But false assumptions are 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.280 another problem in the space U. The popular mantra has 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.040 consistently been that if you just go to college, if 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.200 you just go there, you get a degree, it's gonna 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.880 lead to a higher paying job. It's like this is 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.200 something that one plus one equals to right. It's like 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:12.960 it's like this is a guaranteed fact that well you 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.160 have it doesn't matter how hard you work or what 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:16.679 you do. Just as long as you just go get 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.400 that degree, you're gonna be fine. And I do think 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.600 that that that used to be like overwhelmingly true, and 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.960 and it was a part of the American dream. But 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.000 a college degree back in the seventies and the eighties 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.160 it looks quite a bit different than getting one today, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.960 right in two on multiple levels. Given the absurd increase 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.000 in costs for the average high school graduate and the 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.719 now more faulty promise of high paying jobs upon graduation, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.360 a rethink of that widely held belief is in order. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.800 The stats from Pew Research show that something like four 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.520 and ten graduates between the ages of twenty seven are 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.360 under employed, where they're actually making less than the degree 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:58.880 would suggest that they should be making. And so folks 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.839 are not making the kind of salaries that they're expecting. Uh. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.600 And younger college graduates also, understandably, they tend to ascribe 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.679 less value to their college degree than older college graduates. 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.640 And we believe that's because a degree it's less valuable 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.760 today and it's less reliable than it used to be. Yeah, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.920 when you when you see that that five year span 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.880 after college, that something like people are not getting the 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.680 value that they hoped or that their parents got from 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.520 that degree. It's, of course it's going to shine more 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.959 of a dark shadow on that false assumption right that 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.920 most people held, which was going through college equals middle 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.600 class equals higher paying job and niquals the house with 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.920 the garage cars in the driveway data. So I believe this. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.679 I do. Also there's a part of me that also thinks, Okay, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.640 there's also a good chance that folks are just as young, right, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.000 And like when you're younger, I think oftentimes you don't 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.280 give enough credit to the things outside of your control 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.640 that might lead to your success. And so I think 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.480 there's especially in your twenties, you think, Okay, the reason 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.200 that I got this job or the reason that I 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:08.040 got that promotion is due to my ingenuity. Well where 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.400 did you learn that ingenuity? You know? And I think 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.400 a lot of times when you're younger, sometimes you cannot 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.720 attribute some of your success to something like undergrad because 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.960 I know that's legit how I felt as a graduate, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.199 as a you know, somebody in my twenties, I remember thinking, 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.160 did I really need to go to college to have 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.560 the job that I currently have now? Whereas now as 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.400 I'm a little bit older, I'm thinking, you know, I 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.480 think I could probably give a little more credit to 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.520 the like the softer skills that I learned while in college. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.280 I think that's a good point. And I think, yeah, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.880 those first two years are typically hopefully your lowest earning 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.480 years two out of college, so and hopefully you only 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.360 get wiser from that point and hopefully your paychecks won't 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.640 get fat. Right. But another downside, and we'll talk about, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.599 you know, the good, good things about college too in 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:55.000 a second. But another another problem with higher education right 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.520 now is that there's more college competition right more. It's 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.719 a trend starting to change, actually, but more and more 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.840 young folks have been pursuing higher education because they've been 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.600 told that it's the best bet for success for their future. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.600 But for the first time, almost of of individuals over 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.559 the age of have a college degree. That's up from 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.560 in um and like I said, like the pandemic, it's 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.360 actually kind of curbed the rise in college participation. And 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.040 we'll see how long that trend lasts. Is that just 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.920 like a blip, or is that something that's going to 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.480 be a shift that's gonna you know, go into through 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.040 the rest of this decade. But overall, we've been seeing 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.520 more young people opting for a university education over the 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.120 past twenty years. And and that's also just has this 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.320 other impact of watering down maybe your ability to stand 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.480 out from the crowd based on having a college degree, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.360 and and so that now much more expensive degree becomes 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.360 even less impressive in a world where more of your 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.079 peers also have them. That's right, your smarts are now 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:57.120 they've been deluded, especially amongst all the smarts less concentrated, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.920 right um, and so yeah, the the while, while these 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.080 problems they're still real. Right, While maybe your college degree 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.960 costs more and it's not worth quite as much, and 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.960 those student loans can be quite a burden. Uh, there 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.520 there are still perks for going to college. Let's talk 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.560 about the flip side, Matt, and offer some thoughts on 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.920 how to decipher the value of a potential college degree 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:18.679 in the future. We'll get to our thoughts on that 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:30.520 right after this. All right, we are back, and you know, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.120 we've covered some worthwhile information about the declining value that 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.000 college degrees are providing folks. Now, but let's talk about 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.800 some of the data on how much a college education 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:44.040 will actually enhance your earning prospects. The b l S, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.760 the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the average college 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.640 graduate will earn a million dollars more over their lifetime 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.080 than their high school graduate equivalent. So the fact is, uh, 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:58.720 that's what the stats show. There is data to back 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.680 that up. It doesn't necessarily mean and that that's the 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.080 rate at which things are going to be going moving forward, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.440 but that is what the past. That is what history 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.000 has shown and what it's proven. Also, folks with a 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:13.240 college degree more likely to own a home, and a 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.680 massive amount of the new jobs that are being created 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.040 today are are going to college educated folks, and reflecting 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.160 that the unemployment rate, it's lower for people who have 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.440 a college education. Basically, if we enter into a recession, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.200 individual with the college education, they're going to be impacted 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.120 less severely. Uh so you've got more money, you've got 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.520 more security, and more opportunity. All of these things sound 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.320 like a lot of positives on the pro college side 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.960 of the cure. Yeah, and again like we're kind of 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.840 nuance dudes. Uh, we're not like hot take shock chalk 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.440 style podcast hosts. And so the reality is that college 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:54.080 does pay off for a bunch of people, or at 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:55.720 least it has in the past. And it has in 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.440 the past, but this episode is still titled Colleges for 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.000 dummy or this college asking the question, and and for 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.000 for a lot of people, it's not a dumb move, um, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.480 and that needs to be said. And we will kind 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.400 of talk about how you can determine that in just 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.280 a bit. But a decent chunk of college graduates will 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.720 reap the rewards that you're talking about, Matt after just 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.680 four years, right, um. And and so they will find 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:20.800 that path still uh to the middle class through higher education. 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.280 But we are concerned about a growing number of folks 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.800 who opt to pursue a degree who aren't going to 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.360 benefit from it in the same way. And that's the 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.040 worst exactly. And stats from Pew. You know, we're we're 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.400 referencing pe a lot last weekend this week, but we've 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.280 been diving into the research and we have got to 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.640 back with data and and and these stats that that 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.600 you found showed that only sixty two of folks who 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.560 start their college education end up with a degree after 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.760 six years. So we always talk about like a four 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.000 year education, but the reality is for a whole lot 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.360 of folks it's more like a six plus year education 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.880 or a uh never ending and I never actually got 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.440 my degree sort of education, right, So, um, a lot 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.520 of folks just don't end up getting a degree at all, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.639 which actually puts people in the worst possible position, loaded 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.000 down with debt, without any real ability to earn more 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.240 money based on the time that they've spent in class learning. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.240 So it's crucial to consider the opportunity cost that lies 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.399 ahead of you if you decided to go to college, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.800 because instead of spending tens or or even hundreds of 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.679 thousands of dollars on an education, please don't write that 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.560 may or may not pan out. Um, what what if 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.640 you invested that money instead, or instead of dedicating four 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.240 or six years of your your prime years grinding it 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.640 out on campus, what if you throw yourself directly into 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.080 an industry that you're curious about in order to learn 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.479 to see if that fields for you. Basically, what we're 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.480 trying to warn people against is the blind pursuits of 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.040 academia without considering the alternatives, because by not doing so, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.240 by not thinking through that value proposition, by not being 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.320 wary of the opportunity costs that many will pay in 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.000 order to get that college degree. Um, it could lead 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.439 you to a lot more debt, and you like to 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.439 then you like to be in and and potentially wasted 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.560 years that you could have been doing something more exciting 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.040 or that you're more energized by. Exactly. Yes, it's not 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.399 just a proposition where you are considering the numbers or 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.320 the finances, but it's something where literally this is your time. 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.320 This is years of your life that you might be 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.600 hopefully not fretting away studying something that you're not even 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.600 interested in. Well, usually those college years aren't hope hopefully 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.399 they're not wasted. Hopefully they're hopefully that they're fun. There's 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.760 part of building a network. I mean, college offers more 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.280 things than just some sort of like a degree that 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:32.960 you're handed at the end of it, like it's the 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.399 only thing you're going to all those additional soft skills, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.439 networking people you get to meet, basically learning how to 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.479 live life. But hopefully that's also something that you can 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.840 do fairly cheaply somewhere else. Well, you're not paying thousands 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.000 and tens of thousands, or like you said, even hundreds 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.560 of thousands of dollars to learn that lesson. Uh, and 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.960 so that's it's definitely worth bringing that up because it's 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.760 not just the money, it's also the time opportunity cost 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.840 affects both of those arenas. Uh. And it's also important 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.720 to keep in mind that not all degrees are created equal, 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.040 and so we want you to essentially to be choosy 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.240 and to exercise some discretion here because one think tank 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.399 they found that more than a quarter of degrees in 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.000 fields like psychology, religion, art and music, they leave the 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.280 majority of students worse off than if they had never 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.000 enrolled in the first place. They actually have a negative 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.720 return on investment. So we would suggest thinking about how 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.320 you can pursue a degree that offers maybe a wider 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.639 variety of of high paying job opportunities, Like the engineering 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.760 degree is going to be vastly superior to the art degree, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:36.680 and I hate it for all the creatives out there, 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.520 but it's just that's the that's the truth, that's the facts. Yeah. Yeah, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.040 So we would recommend for you to check out the 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.720 Department of Educations College scorecard website. Will make sure to 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.439 link to that in the show notes, but you can 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.119 check fields of study in particular colleges to see how 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.920 that specific degree stacks up against others. You know, there's 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.600 very few things that we buy in life without doing 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.080