1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: today we're asking the question is college for dummies. Did 3 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: you ever purchased one of those books whatever for dummies 4 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: like coding for Dummies, Driving for Dummies, Dating for Dummies 5 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: in high school? Probably could have used it back in 6 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: the day. Um, mom, I'm gonna swing by the books 7 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: a million and pick up girls for Dummies. Uh No, 8 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: this is we are going to talk about college during 9 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: this episode, and with with fall basically right around the corner, 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: we felt that this was a good time for us 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: to revisit the topic of college and specifically if it's 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: gonna make a lot of sense for folks. And I 13 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: think there might be some folks who are listening and thinking, 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, thanks a lot of guys, But I'm a 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: recent college grad where I'm a young professional. The fact is, 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: I guarantee you know more high schoolers than we do. 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: Uh And so I think this is worth listening to 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: because you can help guide them through this critical time 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: in their in their lives, or at least send them 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: the link to this episode. Well, in the very least, 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: there's just a lot of interesting information. I feel like 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: a lot has changed when it comes to the value 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: proposition the college offers and it's just not as much 24 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: of a slam dunk because it used to be uh 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: years ago. So we're gonna kind of get into that 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: in this episode. We're gonna kind of help you ask 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: some questions, whether you're a parent or a high school student, 28 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: or someone who knows one of those people about like 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: maybe how to navigate the process of thinking through the 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: value that higher education offers or doesn't offer for you. Yeah, 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: and if you're a parent, you also might be thinking, well, 32 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: my kids are too young. I mean, that's that's kind 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: of where we are. Kids are pretty young. But the 34 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: fact is this is something you should start thinking through now, 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: because I don't think you get to a point to 36 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: where you say, okay, it is now time for higher education, 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: like higher age. Educating your kid is a process like 38 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: that is what you are living. It's not an event. 39 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: It's not appeared in time when you're now all at 40 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: once going to make the right decision. It's not a 41 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: singular event, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: I think there are steps that we can take now 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: to start guiding our kids as they are learning things 44 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: as we are shaping them to become adults. Yeah, and 45 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: it starts to help inform those conversations about Like literally 46 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: the other day, my nine year old said, Dad, are 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: you saving money from my college? And so it prompted 48 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: this opportunity to say, like, yeah, I'm saving some but 49 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: it's not it's not a high priority for me. I've 50 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: got these other things that are a bigger priority. And 51 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: college is kind of expensive. But the cool thing is 52 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: there are other ways to pay for it if you 53 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: want to go. And by the way, it might not 54 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: even be the best move. We'll see kind of as 55 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: we get closer to that time. That's kind of the 56 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: conversation we're gonna be having with you, dear listeners before 57 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: we get into it. Man, we you and I. We 58 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: got to share a beer with the listener yesterday. He uh, 59 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: his parents live here locally, he lives out west, but 60 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: he was in town. Hit us up and we're like, 61 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: you know what, we actually are free to grab a beer. 62 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: And it just reminded me of how great our job is. 63 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: And I mean, who else basically gets to sit around 64 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: read the things that are interested in all day, talk 65 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: about it and record there's thoughts into a microphone, all 66 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: while doing it with your best bud. We truly do have, 67 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: I think the best job in the world, and we 68 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: would not be able to have this job, this profession 69 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: if it wasn't for all of you listeners out there. 70 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: So in connecting with those listeners, whether it's some sort 71 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: of listener event that we get to do, or you know, 72 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: when we meet them randomly in public, or when somebody 73 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: reaches out like like Andy did, where we get to 74 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: have a beer just kind of one on one and chat. 75 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: That was man, that's so much fun. That's one of 76 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: the best parts is kind of the community or even 77 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: if it just just the emails, the Facebook group, like, 78 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: the different ways that you're able to engage with the 79 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: folks that are part of the community is I mean, 80 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: it's a huge part of the joy I derived from 81 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: doing this. It ranks up there for me as well, 82 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: but it certainly I think those social interactions rank higher 83 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: for you than they did for me. But that doesn't 84 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: mean I'm any less thankful, uh, And it makes me 85 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: think just how we wouldn't have this show without all 86 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: the listeners out there. Literally you let's need to this 87 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: podcast is what helps to pay our bills, so a 88 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: huge thank you for that. It also helps us to 89 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: pay for the craft beer that you and I get 90 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy most of the episodes. We we don't drink 91 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: every episode, if you're wondering, Our Friday flights are a 92 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: bit shorter and so we avoid cracking open a cold 93 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: one then. But every Monday, every Wednesday we're drinking a 94 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: craft beer, and today we're enjoying a food or beer 95 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: by Southern Brewing. I'm really looking forward to sharing our 96 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 1: thoughts on this one at the end of the episode. 97 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: And if you don't know what food er is, that's 98 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: a funky kind of word. We'll talk about that at 99 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: the end to um. But Matt, let's let's get out too. 100 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's tackle this question. Is college for dummies? 101 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: For dummies? We talked a lot about the middle class 102 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: last week, which was I thought a really fun episode 103 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: and going to college it's kind of been the bedrock 104 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: right of creating this modern American middle class that we've 105 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: had for the past decades. But I guess the question 106 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: is is college is it's still the predominant path forward 107 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: to being in the middle class in the future. That 108 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: is some thing that we want to tackle that question. Yeah, 109 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: because it makes me think about the reality that, for 110 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: the longest time, Matt, most parents have basically no problem 111 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: with their kids playing football. Right. It was an organized 112 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: sport that allowed kids, kids to develop their athletic prowess, 113 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: to develop friendships, to become more disciplined, Bill's teamwork. Yeah, 114 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: it seems like it's mostly a good thing. Even some 115 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: kids get scholarships to go to the colleges of their choice. 116 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: Kids who are there's a lot of benefits, particularly good 117 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: at football. Then yeah, I could go to a big 118 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: school and get their college paid for. But but here's 119 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: the thing. Yeah, the value proposition of your kid playing 120 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: football has changed quite a bit in recent years, right, 121 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: as we've learned more about CT, which I didn't know 122 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: what it stood for, but it stands for chronic traumatic 123 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: and it's a philopathy. I think you're saying, Well, it's 124 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: the more we know about c T now, the more 125 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: it's called into question whether or not it makes sense 126 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: for your kid to participate in let's say, Pop Warner 127 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: Football League. Right, and so we've seen something like a 128 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: thirty five percent fewer kids playing the sport now than 129 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: played ten to fifteen years ago. It's it's just there's 130 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: a dramatic change in perception, and understandably so. And we 131 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: think that actually higher education and recent things happening in 132 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: that space has revealed some striking similarities where where you're 133 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: gonna want to think twice before you send your kid 134 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: out on the football field at the young age of ten, eleven, twelve. 135 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: You might want to think twice if you are a 136 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: high school student or a parent of high school student 137 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: before you just, without thinking send your kid to you know, 138 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: their local public university or to some sort of private 139 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: school the town of state. That's right, yeah, you know, 140 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: And we're certainly not encouraging a widespread revolt against higher education, 141 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: but it's understandable that folks want to know if the 142 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: value proposition is still there when it comes to getting 143 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: a degree. Right, it's college actually still worth it? Uh, 144 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: It's it's clearly not the slam dunk path that it 145 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: used to be thanks to a variety of reasons that 146 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today. The first one has 147 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: been well documented and is most definitely the number one 148 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: reason to reconsider taking that path. Student loans they are 149 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: at insane levels right now and Uh, there's problem people there. 150 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, dude. Uh, and they're now equal to more 151 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: than one point seven trillion dollars overall. Uh, that debt 152 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: it spread across forty five million folks, and there are 153 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: quite a few among that number who feel that birden 154 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: more acutely, you know, it's a it's it feels like 155 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: a like a millstone around their neck, right, preventing them 156 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: from from all sorts of formally normal young adult activities 157 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: like just simply being able to invest, but even getting married, 158 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: starting a family, buying a home because they already have 159 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: a mortgage payment, that is, their student loans that they're 160 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: paying off. Still, any one percent of adults with student 161 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: loans say that they've delayed some of these life milestones 162 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: because of their debts. So it's having a real tangible 163 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: impact on what our lives look like to me. And 164 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: even in the past ten, twelve, fifteen years, like we've 165 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: seen kind of the amount, the average amount of debt 166 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: that a normal student comes out of school with just skyrocket, 167 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: which can and should change your perspective on whether or 168 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: not it makes sense to go in that direction. So, yeah, 169 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: student loans are obviously one of the number one problems. 170 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: One of the number one reasons to reconsider college and 171 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: and to ask the question if it's if it's a 172 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: dumb move or not well, and another one is is just, yeah, 173 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: the higher cost of college in general, because we've been 174 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: talking about inflation quite a bit, and you know, prices 175 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: at the grocery store have gone up quite a bit 176 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: in the past twelve eighteen months. You know, use cars, 177 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: new cars, all that stuff. Those things have taken off 178 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: like a rocket in terms of price in just the 179 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: past couple of years. But when you actually zoom out, 180 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: there's certain segments of our economy where inflation has been 181 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: impacting us severely for not just the past couple of years, 182 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: but for the past couple of decades. Uh. And so yeah, 183 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: the college, the staring cost of college takes the cake, 184 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: even beating out right the awful increases that we've seen 185 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: even in our health care system. Um. And there's just 186 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: so many reasons for that, but easy access to those 187 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: student loans that are widely available from the federal government 188 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: is at least a part of that reason. And being 189 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: able to easily borrow more and more money it means 190 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: that colleges can hire more administrators they can build nicer buildings, 191 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: they can inflate their costs more than they would otherwise 192 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: be able to if there wasn't easy money for teenagers 193 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: to get in order to go get that higher education. Right, 194 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: It's it's not that those additional dollars are significantly increasing 195 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: the quality of the education either. We'll talk about that later. 196 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: They're they're not. And plus, you can't shake these student loans. 197 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: You can't. When you pay more for college and you 198 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: take on more debt to get that degree, that debt 199 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: sticks with you through thick and thin, even if you 200 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: file for bankruptcy. It's like this financial tar that sticks 201 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: to you for for basically the rest of your life. 202 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: You can't shake them. That's definitely a hindrance to higher 203 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: education or college specifically making sense, But false assumptions are 204 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: another problem in the space U. The popular mantra has 205 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: consistently been that if you just go to college, if 206 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: you just go there, you get a degree, it's gonna 207 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: lead to a higher paying job. It's like this is 208 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: something that one plus one equals to right. It's like 209 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: it's like this is a guaranteed fact that well you 210 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: have it doesn't matter how hard you work or what 211 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: you do. Just as long as you just go get 212 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: that degree, you're gonna be fine. And I do think 213 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: that that that used to be like overwhelmingly true, and 214 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: and it was a part of the American dream. But 215 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: a college degree back in the seventies and the eighties 216 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: it looks quite a bit different than getting one today, 217 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: right in two on multiple levels. Given the absurd increase 218 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: in costs for the average high school graduate and the 219 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: now more faulty promise of high paying jobs upon graduation, 220 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: a rethink of that widely held belief is in order. 221 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: The stats from Pew Research show that something like four 222 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: and ten graduates between the ages of twenty seven are 223 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: under employed, where they're actually making less than the degree 224 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: would suggest that they should be making. And so folks 225 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: are not making the kind of salaries that they're expecting. Uh. 226 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: And younger college graduates also, understandably, they tend to ascribe 227 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: less value to their college degree than older college graduates. 228 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: And we believe that's because a degree it's less valuable 229 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: today and it's less reliable than it used to be. Yeah, 230 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: when you when you see that that five year span 231 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: after college, that something like people are not getting the 232 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: value that they hoped or that their parents got from 233 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: that degree. It's, of course it's going to shine more 234 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: of a dark shadow on that false assumption right that 235 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: most people held, which was going through college equals middle 236 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: class equals higher paying job and niquals the house with 237 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: the garage cars in the driveway data. So I believe this. 238 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: I do. Also there's a part of me that also thinks, Okay, 239 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: there's also a good chance that folks are just as young, right, 240 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: And like when you're younger, I think oftentimes you don't 241 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: give enough credit to the things outside of your control 242 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: that might lead to your success. And so I think 243 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: there's especially in your twenties, you think, Okay, the reason 244 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: that I got this job or the reason that I 245 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: got that promotion is due to my ingenuity. Well where 246 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: did you learn that ingenuity? You know? And I think 247 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: a lot of times when you're younger, sometimes you cannot 248 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: attribute some of your success to something like undergrad because 249 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: I know that's legit how I felt as a graduate, 250 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: as a you know, somebody in my twenties, I remember thinking, 251 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: did I really need to go to college to have 252 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: the job that I currently have now? Whereas now as 253 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older, I'm thinking, you know, I 254 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: think I could probably give a little more credit to 255 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: the like the softer skills that I learned while in college. 256 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. And I think, yeah, 257 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: those first two years are typically hopefully your lowest earning 258 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: years two out of college, so and hopefully you only 259 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: get wiser from that point and hopefully your paychecks won't 260 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: get fat. Right. But another downside, and we'll talk about, 261 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,599 Speaker 1: you know, the good, good things about college too in 262 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: a second. But another another problem with higher education right 263 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: now is that there's more college competition right more. It's 264 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: a trend starting to change, actually, but more and more 265 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: young folks have been pursuing higher education because they've been 266 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: told that it's the best bet for success for their future. 267 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: But for the first time, almost of of individuals over 268 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: the age of have a college degree. That's up from 269 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: in um and like I said, like the pandemic, it's 270 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: actually kind of curbed the rise in college participation. And 271 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: we'll see how long that trend lasts. Is that just 272 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: like a blip, or is that something that's going to 273 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: be a shift that's gonna you know, go into through 274 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: the rest of this decade. But overall, we've been seeing 275 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: more young people opting for a university education over the 276 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: past twenty years. And and that's also just has this 277 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: other impact of watering down maybe your ability to stand 278 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: out from the crowd based on having a college degree, 279 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: and and so that now much more expensive degree becomes 280 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: even less impressive in a world where more of your 281 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: peers also have them. That's right, your smarts are now 282 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: they've been deluded, especially amongst all the smarts less concentrated, 283 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: right um, and so yeah, the the while, while these 284 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: problems they're still real. Right, While maybe your college degree 285 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: costs more and it's not worth quite as much, and 286 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: those student loans can be quite a burden. Uh, there 287 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: there are still perks for going to college. Let's talk 288 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: about the flip side, Matt, and offer some thoughts on 289 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: how to decipher the value of a potential college degree 290 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: in the future. We'll get to our thoughts on that 291 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: right after this. All right, we are back, and you know, 292 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: we've covered some worthwhile information about the declining value that 293 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: college degrees are providing folks. Now, but let's talk about 294 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: some of the data on how much a college education 295 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: will actually enhance your earning prospects. The b l S, 296 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the average college 297 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: graduate will earn a million dollars more over their lifetime 298 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: than their high school graduate equivalent. So the fact is, uh, 299 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: that's what the stats show. There is data to back 300 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: that up. It doesn't necessarily mean and that that's the 301 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: rate at which things are going to be going moving forward, 302 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: but that is what the past. That is what history 303 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: has shown and what it's proven. Also, folks with a 304 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: college degree more likely to own a home, and a 305 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: massive amount of the new jobs that are being created 306 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: today are are going to college educated folks, and reflecting 307 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: that the unemployment rate, it's lower for people who have 308 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: a college education. Basically, if we enter into a recession, 309 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: individual with the college education, they're going to be impacted 310 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: less severely. Uh so you've got more money, you've got 311 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: more security, and more opportunity. All of these things sound 312 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: like a lot of positives on the pro college side 313 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: of the cure. Yeah, and again like we're kind of 314 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: nuance dudes. Uh, we're not like hot take shock chalk 315 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: style podcast hosts. And so the reality is that college 316 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: does pay off for a bunch of people, or at 317 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: least it has in the past. And it has in 318 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: the past, but this episode is still titled Colleges for 319 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: dummy or this college asking the question, and and for 320 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, it's not a dumb move, um, 321 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: and that needs to be said. And we will kind 322 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: of talk about how you can determine that in just 323 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: a bit. But a decent chunk of college graduates will 324 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: reap the rewards that you're talking about, Matt after just 325 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: four years, right, um. And and so they will find 326 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: that path still uh to the middle class through higher education. 327 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: But we are concerned about a growing number of folks 328 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: who opt to pursue a degree who aren't going to 329 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: benefit from it in the same way. And that's the 330 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: worst exactly. And stats from Pew. You know, we're we're 331 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: referencing pe a lot last weekend this week, but we've 332 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: been diving into the research and we have got to 333 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: back with data and and and these stats that that 334 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: you found showed that only sixty two of folks who 335 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: start their college education end up with a degree after 336 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: six years. So we always talk about like a four 337 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: year education, but the reality is for a whole lot 338 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: of folks it's more like a six plus year education 339 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: or a uh never ending and I never actually got 340 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: my degree sort of education, right, So, um, a lot 341 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: of folks just don't end up getting a degree at all, 342 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: which actually puts people in the worst possible position, loaded 343 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: down with debt, without any real ability to earn more 344 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: money based on the time that they've spent in class learning. 345 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: So it's crucial to consider the opportunity cost that lies 346 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: ahead of you if you decided to go to college, 347 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: because instead of spending tens or or even hundreds of 348 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on an education, please don't write that 349 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: may or may not pan out. Um, what what if 350 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: you invested that money instead, or instead of dedicating four 351 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: or six years of your your prime years grinding it 352 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: out on campus, what if you throw yourself directly into 353 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: an industry that you're curious about in order to learn 354 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: to see if that fields for you. Basically, what we're 355 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: trying to warn people against is the blind pursuits of 356 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: academia without considering the alternatives, because by not doing so, 357 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: by not thinking through that value proposition, by not being 358 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: wary of the opportunity costs that many will pay in 359 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: order to get that college degree. Um, it could lead 360 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: you to a lot more debt, and you like to 361 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: then you like to be in and and potentially wasted 362 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: years that you could have been doing something more exciting 363 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: or that you're more energized by. Exactly. Yes, it's not 364 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: just a proposition where you are considering the numbers or 365 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: the finances, but it's something where literally this is your time. 366 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: This is years of your life that you might be 367 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: hopefully not fretting away studying something that you're not even 368 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: interested in. Well, usually those college years aren't hope hopefully 369 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: they're not wasted. Hopefully they're hopefully that they're fun. There's 370 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: part of building a network. I mean, college offers more 371 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: things than just some sort of like a degree that 372 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: you're handed at the end of it, like it's the 373 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: only thing you're going to all those additional soft skills, 374 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: networking people you get to meet, basically learning how to 375 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 1: live life. But hopefully that's also something that you can 376 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: do fairly cheaply somewhere else. Well, you're not paying thousands 377 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: and tens of thousands, or like you said, even hundreds 378 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars to learn that lesson. Uh, and 379 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: so that's it's definitely worth bringing that up because it's 380 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: not just the money, it's also the time opportunity cost 381 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: affects both of those arenas. Uh. And it's also important 382 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: to keep in mind that not all degrees are created equal, 383 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: and so we want you to essentially to be choosy 384 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: and to exercise some discretion here because one think tank 385 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: they found that more than a quarter of degrees in 386 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: fields like psychology, religion, art and music, they leave the 387 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: majority of students worse off than if they had never 388 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: enrolled in the first place. They actually have a negative 389 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: return on investment. So we would suggest thinking about how 390 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: you can pursue a degree that offers maybe a wider 391 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: variety of of high paying job opportunities, Like the engineering 392 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: degree is going to be vastly superior to the art degree, 393 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: and I hate it for all the creatives out there, 394 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: but it's just that's the that's the truth, that's the facts. Yeah. Yeah, 395 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: So we would recommend for you to check out the 396 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: Department of Educations College scorecard website. Will make sure to 397 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: link to that in the show notes, but you can 398 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: check fields of study in particular colleges to see how 399 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: that specific degree stacks up against others. You know, there's 400 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: very few things that we buy in life without doing 401 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: a cost benefit analysis, you know, like even I mean 402 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: think about all the things where you can compare, Like 403 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: even just like buying a roomba, which I personally like, 404 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: Like you can click on the website, you can compare. 405 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, what features does this one offer that 406 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: this one doesn't. But oftentimes we don't do that when 407 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: it comes to college, when you can be like, wait, 408 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: the three hundred dollar roomba, like, and I like those features, 409 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: but in the one just makes more sense for what 410 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: I want, and you know what, I'm gonna wait for 411 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: a tick on sale. Went for the two one, So 412 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: it's got that smart mapping going on. But a lot 413 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: of times we don't even consider college even to that extent. 414 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: We just throw ourselves into an alma mater or a 415 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: school that you've always dreamed about going to. And I'm 416 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: not saying that that's not something you should consider, but 417 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: it is worth looking at what that degree is going 418 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: to be able to earn you once you graduate. You know, 419 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: we've just become so desensitized to the price of how 420 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: higher education right whereas we're we're not. We're highly sensitive 421 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: to the price of everything else in our lives, and 422 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: so it's not that there aren't additional factors that we 423 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: need to weigh and consider, but the price needs to 424 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: be more at the forefront of the decision than it 425 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: typically is for a lot of individuals and families. And 426 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: a large contributing factor to that negative r O I 427 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Matt, that some degrees offer is is 428 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: the reality that, like we said, a fewer folks are 429 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: finishing the college degrees that they start. It's like, I 430 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: think it's like stress and debt levels they often like 431 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: convinced people to abandon the pursuit of that degree before 432 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: they finish, and and I think maybe that's one of 433 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: the reasons we're starting to see undergrad enrollment dropping, especially 434 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: for young men. And like I hinted to earlier, Uh, 435 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: the quality of education isn't actually getting better for for 436 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: the with the more money that we're paying, and in 437 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: some cases it's it's getting worse. Uh. There was a 438 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: recent article in the journal than It talked about how 439 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: a lot of colleges are starting to use mass produced 440 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: content in the form of online classes and programs that 441 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: that they offer to students. And this isn't relegated to 442 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: for profit colleges or your local community college. Like great 443 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: schools like Vanderbilt, uh, the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, 444 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: the University of Oregon, they have begun to rely on 445 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: third party companies to the live are some of the 446 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: courses and certificate programs that they offer to their students. 447 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: So uh, a lot of people have been disappointed in 448 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: the equality of education that they're getting in some cases 449 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: because that university is outsourcing the education to third party 450 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: companies that aren't doing a great job, even though you're 451 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: still paying name brand prices. So yeah, you might still 452 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: get the degree or their certificate with the respected school 453 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: of your choices name on it, but chances are you 454 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: might be less impressed with what you've learned, with the 455 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: actual coursework and kind of with how prepared do you 456 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: feel going to the job market at the end of 457 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: the day. Yeah, And that's kind of a crappy way 458 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: for things to go, right because what that means it's 459 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: that's an entire workforce that's out there working there in 460 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: their profession and they're not really maybe they're not doing 461 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: a great job because they were hired because of a 462 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: certain university, a certain degree that they earned, but that 463 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be able to 464 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: bring innovative ideas to whatever field or to whatever industry 465 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: that they're working in, which also means that we as 466 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: a public are gonna see the benefit right of their 467 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: creativity and in our own lives. That's credentialism, right. You're 468 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: paying for some sort of credential. You're paying Alpha wazoo 469 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: in some cases, for some sort of credential instead of 470 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: an actual education that's gonna make you better, that's gonna 471 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: challenge you, that's going to sharpen you into basically give 472 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: you better ideas. That's not give you better ideas, but 473 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: give you the ability to create better ideas. That's what 474 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying here. And another thing to keep in mind 475 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: is that the price you pay for something that is 476 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: a large determinant of whether or not it was a 477 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: good purchase. You know, like getting something valuable that you'll 478 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: use every day, but not paying a sent for it, 479 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: maybe because your neighbor was giving it away. That's like 480 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: the best case scenario. Right. I'm talking about curb alerts here, 481 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: but they're not really giving away high quality college educations. 482 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: Uh that often these days. In most instances, though, we 483 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: have to weigh trade offs, and so the number one 484 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: determining factor of whether or not a college degree is 485 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: worth it is how much it is going to cost you. 486 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: If you get an underwater basket weaving degree, but it 487 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: didn't cost you a time, right, you know, like more 488 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: power to you see a little bit of time, but hey, 489 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: at least you'll learn a skill. No debt that's hanging 490 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: around your neck for that worth Listen, Yeah, yeah, but 491 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: if you wracked up a hundred and fifty dollars in 492 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: student loans plus interest for that useless degree, it's gonna 493 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: haunch you probably for the rest of your life. And 494 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: so scrounging for scholarships, scrounging like scoring grants, that is 495 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: going to be key. If you want to make sure 496 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: that your your college degree is going to be worth it. 497 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: You can check out sites like bold dot org. That's 498 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: a new one, but fast Web They've been around forever, 499 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: college Board. These are all just a few sites where 500 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: you can search for some of the different scholarships that 501 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: are out there. Essentially, we want you looking for scholarships 502 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: to become basically a full time job because effectively it 503 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: is yeah yeah, and you want someone else, hopefully paying 504 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: for a decent chunk of that education instead of it 505 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: coming out of your pocket or you're taking it in 506 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: the form of debt for and paying it off for 507 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: years to come. And if you do want to go 508 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: to college, we would highly suggest Ron Lieber's book we 509 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: had wrong on the pod cast I don't know, maybe 510 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago. His book was The 511 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: Price You Pay for College, and it's just this invaluable resource. 512 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: Spend the thirteen fifteen bucks whatever it costs, uh, even 513 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: less now because it just came out in paperback. Yeah yeah, 514 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, you can get or and you can get 515 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: used on eBay. I'm sure too, um, but your library. 516 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah exactly. But finding ways to lower the cost 517 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: will increase the value of that degree, right. And so 518 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: what one site that we talked about when we had 519 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: Ron on the show, Matt was tuition fit dot org. 520 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: And that's a great way to kind of compare your 521 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: financial aid letters, uh, the offers that you're receiving from 522 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: different colleges to other people what they're getting with like 523 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: similar backgrounds and g p A s and at the 524 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: same college. So so that can help you be a 525 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: more informed shopper when it comes to deciding where or 526 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: to go to school and kind of what degree to get. 527 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: But what if the cost is still just too high, 528 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: what if you don't qualify for enough scholarships, and what 529 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: if you don't get much financial aid or merit aid 530 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: from the school that you want to go to, Well, 531 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: maybe it makes sense to avoid college altogether. We'll talk 532 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: about alter native paths and then we're gonna offer you 533 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: some questions you should ask yourself that will help you 534 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: determine whether or not college still makes sense for you. Well, 535 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that how you can make a wise 536 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: decision right after this. All right, we are back and 537 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: this is the third and final section of this episode, 538 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: and we're asking the question, is college for dummies? And 539 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: hopefully you don't find yourself on the dummy side of 540 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: the chart that you're creating within your mind here and 541 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: Jel what what you're hinting you're kind of talking about 542 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: some of the alternatives to college. And what we're gonna 543 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: talk about now is blue collar work. And we'll start 544 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: by saying it certainly isn't going to be for everybody, 545 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: but it is just a fact that some folks who 546 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: go to college would be far better served by leaving 547 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: high school and instead working within a trade. We talked 548 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: about the value of blue collar work and how to 549 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: make a great living without going to college back in 550 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: episode two seventy seven with can Rusk check that one out. 551 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: But as we were talking to a Ken, he was 552 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: telling us how some plumbers in Atlanta can make something 553 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: like ninety thou dollars, And this is a couple of 554 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: years ago, so I'm sure that's up to a hundred 555 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars now coming straight out of school. The demand 556 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: for these skilled trades has just completely outpaced the supply. 557 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: But you know, with the decline of in particular shop 558 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: class and high schools, there are just fewer young folks 559 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: who are given the opportunity to develop those skills in 560 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: order to see that it would be a better route 561 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: for them to take. That's something that I would love 562 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: to see brought back to a lot of different high 563 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: schools that are out there, for sure. Man. So one 564 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: of my one of my friends is a science teacher 565 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: at a local high school and he has basically like 566 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: uh delta donated a plane to their school that the 567 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: kids can kind of like work on and tinker with. 568 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: And so he has a whole class for uh some 569 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: like was it like in the playground, Like there's a 570 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: playground and then to the side of it there's there's 571 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: an airplane. Yes, yes, and you can choose what you 572 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: want to play. I'm sure it's not like the entire airplane. 573 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: I haven't actually seen in person, like the airplane graveyards 574 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: out in like Utah or Arizona where they just like 575 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: sit there out in the desert at this picture of that, 576 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: but next to a school. Yeah, So i'llous get him 577 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: to send me some pictures. But but it's what he's 578 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: told me kind of about how much these kids are 579 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: able to learn in this class. Is there um, kind 580 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: of learning some airplane mechanic skills? And he told me 581 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: that these kids, upon graduation are going to be able 582 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: to instantly without going to college, earn more money than 583 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: he makes as a teacher, which is incredible. Um. And 584 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: he went to a four year I went to school 585 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: with this, uh, and so I remember seeing him in college, 586 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: and I know that that cost him some money, yes exactly, 587 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: And but some of his students because they are learning 588 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: a skill in high school, they're gonna be able to 589 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,719 Speaker 1: turn that skill into a money making venture immediately. And 590 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: so some of those some of those kids would be 591 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: would be silly. Um, if they're so inclined to pursue 592 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: this line of work, they'd be silly to think about 593 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: going to college. Um, because they've got a marketable skill 594 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: immediately at the age of seventeen or eighteen. Yeah. Unfortunately, 595 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: it's it's not a failure oftentimes in the students part, 596 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: but on the school's part. Sure, if a school is 597 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: not offering a variety of options and if there are 598 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: basically just trying to shuttle all of their students down 599 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: the college path, I think that's an example of not 600 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: being able to serve the kids as individuals. It's also 601 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: a societal failure where we have created a line of 602 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: messaging that says one plus one equals to that says 603 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: home ownership is the American dream or college is the 604 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: American dream, and it's like, sure, for some people it 605 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: can be a great avenue, but um, we need to 606 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: rethink both of those things, and in college in particular, right, Yeah, 607 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, But that being said, even if you 608 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: do opt to go the blue collar route, you might 609 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: still need a degree, you know, depending on what specific 610 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: route you want to go. Uh to your degrees in 611 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: fields like construction management or agricultural studies are actually in 612 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: really high demand these days. Uh. There's degrees are often 613 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: far less expensive, and they contribute directly to the ability 614 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: to land a specific job or to help you to 615 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: be able to start your own business. What I love 616 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: about these degrees is that they're just so daing practical. Uh, 617 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, Like the problem is oftentimes is that high 618 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: school students, high school graduates, they don't necessarily know what 619 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: they want to do at that point, and then they 620 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: go off to college, sometimes paying lots and lots of 621 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: money for a liberal arts education. When I feel, oftentimes 622 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: that should be the job of high school and like 623 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: it should be while they're getting an education for like 624 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: folks that is absolutely free within the bounds of high school, 625 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: where you're not having to pay tens of thousands of dollars. 626 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: And then once you are able to graduate, sure if 627 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: you then want to go to college and get a 628 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: degree in a specific field, or you want to go 629 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: to a tech school, or you want to get whatever 630 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: it is that you want to pursue, you can then 631 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: pursue that degree or that field or that profession with 632 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: just this laser like focus. That's when it makes a 633 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: lot of sense. It's it's just sometimes people go to 634 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: college and their undecided on their major for the first 635 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: three years of it, right, and they're waffling back and forth, 636 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: and so they're paying good money taking classes when they 637 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: don't really know what they want to do with their life. 638 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: And so that we'll talk about something else in a 639 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: little bit, like like a gap year is potentially best 640 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: for like that totally the solution for that for sure. 641 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: Well sticking a blue collar worked up for a second 642 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: mate one of the other things. Like I think some 643 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: people think that blue collar or doing work as a 644 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: skilled trades person means that you're just trading time for 645 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: money every day for the rest of your working life. 646 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: But we would say that's not true either. Like you 647 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: can you can totally become a blue collar entrepreneur, which 648 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: can allow you to make even more money by building 649 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: a business by hiring other people. And you know what's 650 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: more motivating than getting tired of doing manual labor by 651 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: yourself as you get older, than to kind of start 652 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: a business around it, hire other people and and become 653 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: kind of the master of your own domain. Uh, in 654 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: terms of building a business, So it doesn't have to 655 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: be I make seventy dollars an hour as a plumber 656 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: or an electrician or an h fact technician. It can 657 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: truly be I've got this business where other people work 658 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: for me. I mentored them, and they they are going 659 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: out and doing most of the work. But I am 660 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: now a business owner and that's my main function because 661 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: my knees are bad right, my back hurts, and I 662 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: don't want to be the one out there in the 663 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: field anymore. Just guys, maybe I loved it now and 664 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: I find something else I love about the process of 665 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: being able to like I mean, maybe doing the work 666 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 1: still occasionally, but now building a business is kind of 667 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: more enthralling, like more more fun to think about. Totally. Yeah, 668 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: but again, you know, blue color work, it's not for everybody. 669 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: You don't see us out there digging ditches or welding 670 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: or fixing furnaces. That's not for everyone. I do. I 671 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: do change my own air filter so sore, which you 672 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: should do. How often do you do it? By the way, 673 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, like every three months do do you really? 674 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: If you do it every three months, then you're like 675 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: the guy that flosses his teeth everything. Nobody does it 676 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: every You're not good at flossing, but I'm good at 677 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: dude that will. That's It's like you oil change in 678 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: your car. Don't don't wait on those two things because 679 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: it'll cost you more money do those things. But what 680 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: we're talking about here is that blue collar work. Even 681 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: though it's not for us, that doesn't mean that this 682 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: route doesn't make sense for millions of high school graduates. 683 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: But here are a few questions, though, to ask yourself 684 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: in order to help you make a smart decision when 685 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: it comes to that pursuit of higher education or not. 686 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: And I think the first one is has a lot 687 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: to do with lifestyle, you know, Like I want you 688 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: to ask yourself what you want your life to look like, 689 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: because for some the idea of sitting behind a computer 690 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: screen eight hours a day, like that's going to sound 691 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: like like nightmare work for them, right, Whereas like others 692 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: might naturally have skills that would make them a very 693 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: successful uh software engineer or a programmer. And then still 694 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: others might want to be like a biologist, which would 695 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: require a completely different approach to thinking about higher education. 696 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: There there, there's not going to be a one size 697 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: fits all approach. Uh, and your aptitude, your desires, they're 698 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: going to be crucial to making a smart decision. And 699 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that are important to 700 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: start thinking through that will help to point you within 701 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: the right direction. Yeah. I mean, man, I met somebody 702 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: at the beach who teaches. He's an entomologist at the 703 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: University of Georgia, and for him, uh, college college wasn't dumb, 704 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: That wasn't a bad choice because he's turn it into 705 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: a career that he loves. He followed a passion and 706 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: it takes a lot of higher education, a lot of 707 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: time spent in at the university in order to get 708 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: to the place that he got. So so much of 709 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: it does depend on your bent, like what you want 710 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: to pursue in life. And then immediately after weighing some 711 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: of those lifestyle considerations, you're gonna want to dive into 712 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: the numbers. Right, how much is my education gonna cost? 713 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: And how much am I likely to earn? Those are 714 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: two really really important questions before you proceed. So if 715 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: you want to go into a profession that requires a 716 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: college degree, well, how much will it cost to get 717 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: that degree? And even if you're thinking a skilled trade 718 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: is the best route for you, what will the cost 719 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: of that trade school run you? And do you even 720 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: need to go to trade school? Right? Or can you 721 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: apprentice under someone? But then immediately after considering the cost, 722 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: you should be figuring out what the likely earning potential 723 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: will be for that job or career path that you're 724 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: interested in. A part of the equation isn't just what 725 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: folks in the industry are making now, but what the 726 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: trajectory of that industry is going to be in the 727 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: coming years as well. For instance, some occupations the Bureau 728 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: of Labor Statistics is projecting to have the most growth 729 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: in the next ten years are wind turbine technicians, nurses, 730 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: and physical trainers, So those totally make sense. They do 731 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: about mental health professionals, right, That's another thing we've talked about, 732 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: how Emily is going back to get her master's degree 733 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: so she can become a licensed therapist, and it's like, great, 734 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: she's not gonna want for job opportunities with that degree. 735 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: And so one of the things that we we talked 736 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: about as a rule of thumb is we want people 737 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: to to be able to make in their first year 738 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: out of college more than the amount of debt that 739 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: they took on during their entirety of college. And so 740 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: preferably you're able to keep your debt load even lower 741 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: than that. But the problem is if you take on 742 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty dollars in student loan debt and you're 743 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: starting salary coming out of school is fort like that 744 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: that's a losing proposition, that is when that college education 745 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: is more of a burden than the help. And so 746 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: at least use that rule of thumb hopefully to help 747 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: you make a better decision about whether or not college 748 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: makes sense for you or or which college you you 749 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: actually end up going to. Yes, right, yeah, And this 750 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: is all assuming though that you have an idea that 751 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: like like an assumption that you do want to pursue 752 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: higher education. But if you don't, sort of like we 753 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: were talking earlier, if you're not sure what you want 754 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,959 Speaker 1: to do, that you might be better served by taking 755 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: the gap here, because I mean, like most folks will 756 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: will opt to do that between high school and college. Um, 757 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: I think that makes a ton of sense because for 758 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: a lot of young adults, their brains are quite literally 759 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: still developing. You have no idea what you want to do. 760 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 1: What better way to spend that time than maybe just 761 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: like you, like you said earlier, to like working within 762 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: the field for a period of time where you're not 763 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: taking on loads and loads of debt there too from me, Yeah, yeah, 764 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: you maybe you don't want to learn, uh, and you 765 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,879 Speaker 1: are able to instead earn some money. But if you're 766 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: in a lucky enough position to have maybe some money 767 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: set aside, man the actual ability to do like what 768 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: you envisioned when someone says a gap here where maybe 769 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: you're able to travel for a little bit of time 770 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: where you're able to go abroad and not do like 771 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: the tourist to the backpacking thing where you dropping tons 772 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: of money every single day, but like literally going finding 773 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,399 Speaker 1: a city and finding a way to earn a living 774 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 1: there for a little bit, like working for a small 775 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: period of time, experiencing some different cultures, exposing yourself to 776 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: just the vast variety of life that's out there before 777 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: you commit yourself to this path that's going to end 778 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: up leaving you in this massive whole of debt. I 779 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 1: think that can be seen as like a self indulgent 780 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: move right to take time away from school at that period, 781 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: but I think it it's horizon broadening and maybe if 782 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: you're not sure what you want to do next, like 783 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 1: encountering some different people, some different ways of living, different 784 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: parts of the country, may be different parts of the world, 785 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: and and spending you know, you didn't have to cost 786 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: a lot of money in order to travel. Again, it's 787 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: travel the country, specially if you are living somewhere first 788 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: of all that's affordable. She right, Like we're not talking 789 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: about you move into like Tokyo or New York City 790 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: or London, but like, I don't know, somewhere in Thailand 791 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: where it's crazy affordable and you can make some money 792 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: on the side and just take your stage wagon and 793 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: you're sleeping bag and a tent and like travel the 794 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: country for a few months and just kind of to 795 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: Alaska and try to hike out into the wilderness and 796 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: then right, no one ever finds you don't pull the 797 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: Christopher McCandless thing, um. But yeah, I don't do that. There. 798 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: There is like so much to be said for getting 799 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: away from school for a little bit of time and 800 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: kind of getting some perspective about what you want out 801 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: of life, because we don't always know. After what twelve 802 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: years of education right from ages six to eighteen um, 803 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: sometimes we feel overloaded and we need our brain needs 804 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: a little bit of rest and we need some time 805 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: to kind of figure things out before we just launched 806 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: directly into four more years of school. And it's not 807 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: necessarily that it's been twelve hard years of hard education, right, 808 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: But in my mind, it's the fact that you have 809 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: gone from one grade to the next without having basically 810 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: to make any decisions, any choices, and that is just 811 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: a muscle that young oaks haven't flexed. They're not ready 812 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: to make life changing decisions like this. And I think 813 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: it can be helpful to make smaller ones that have 814 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: shorter expiration dates, right, rather than ones that will last 815 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: not only four years, but student loan debt that might 816 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: stick around for twenty or thirty years, and they be 817 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: one thing if it was life changing decisions. But these 818 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: life changing decisions are accompanied by life changing sums of 819 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: debt most of the time that stick with you. It's 820 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: like we're talking about earlier, with student loans being like 821 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: tar and so another question we want folks to ask themselves, 822 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: is if you could potentially d i Y your higher education, 823 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: because if pursuing some sort of higher degree is it's 824 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: still in the cards for you, and maybe you want 825 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: to do it on a shoestring budget, maybe you don't 826 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: have any money on hand at all. Something we would 827 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: suggest is sort of a like more of a d 828 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: i Y college path, and that's because there are more 829 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: free resources now than ever before to educate yourself. Of course, 830 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: you're not gonna get a diploma that you can hang 831 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: on the wall, but you also don't have the debt 832 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: burden that goes along with it. Peer to peer university 833 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: that's worth checking out. It allows you to delve into 834 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: topics that you want to study without an instructor, but 835 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: you're still able to do it within sort of like 836 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: this learning circle with other folks. UH. The amount of 837 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,439 Speaker 1: free information that you can get thanks to other other 838 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: resources like Project Gutenberg, Google Scholar, it's incredibly impressive as well. 839 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: UH Alison dot Com that's another site that offers free 840 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: online courses that can even allow you to actually earn 841 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: some like a type of degree and some certificates. There 842 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of different options out there where. If 843 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: you are just thirsty for knowledge, there's a way to 844 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: do that without you going going off to university, hanging 845 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: out on campus, you know, uh, throwing the frisbee on 846 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: the quad like like which which are all these are 847 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: all fun things. But if that's not your jam, if 848 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: that's not something that really interests you, there are still 849 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: ways to learn and to acquire knowledge without the sort 850 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: of debt or the lifestyle shift. What makes me think, Matt, 851 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: that we have hired one person to help us with 852 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: something recently on how the money and it's kind of 853 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: fun to to bring someone into the fold to help 854 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: us out with some tasks. And I don't know, actually 855 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: if he has a college degree, no clue. We never asked. 856 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: We made the decision. We made the decision based on 857 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,439 Speaker 1: that's so funny work that he's been putting out into 858 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: the world for a number of years. And so I 859 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: think that your college degree matters so little after a 860 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: few years for for a slew of professions, including the 861 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: work that we have hired, and he gets paid a 862 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: decent rate per hour, that just means we're just terrible interviewers. No, 863 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: it means that, like it's really not that important for 864 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: for what he's doing for us. And I'm not saying 865 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: that's not important for some things. If you want to 866 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: be a doctor, you should have a degree, like like, 867 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: you gotta go to medical school if you're going to 868 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: operate on my heart, right, Like, it doesn't matter that 869 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: I've been doing this for a couple of years. I've 870 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: been putting out a good work. I got good reviews 871 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: on you help. That works for some things, but yeah, 872 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: not very high level professions or occupations like being a lawyer, 873 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: being a doctor. There are a lot of degrees that 874 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: you could you mentioned some of them earlier that have 875 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: a negative r o I and you need to avoid 876 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: and all, Like a lot of people need to avoid 877 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,959 Speaker 1: those degrees in particular, But then some other ones where 878 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, maybe they're giving you some hard skills, 879 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: but even some of those skills can be developed um 880 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: on your own for free, just through kind of working 881 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: and working on it. And and because the cost of 882 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: college is often so opaque, that makes the decision I 883 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: think really hard for people right to determine whether or 884 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: not it makes sense. We'd obviously love to see more 885 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: transparency when it comes to the cost of higher education. 886 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: So that we can make more informed decisions. There there 887 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: aren't many decisions that we have to make as consumers 888 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: that are so kind of fraught with peril that we 889 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: can't we can't look at a price and look at 890 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: the product and easily determine whether or not it's a 891 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: good deal or not. Literally, it's higher education and the healthcare. 892 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: Is it any coincidence that they say that we've seen 893 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: the highest price increases in within these industries while simultaneously 894 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: the transparency has just been non existent. Yeah, exactly. Again, 895 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: we would like no market forces at play, basically, are 896 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 1: there are few and far between that Check out again 897 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: Ron Lieber's book, because he kind of talks a lot 898 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: about that and how it's not the price isn't what 899 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: you think it is. So you've got to dig in 900 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: and you've got to figure that stuff out because there's 901 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 1: no there's no sheet a paper or website online that's 902 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: going to give you all the information you need. You've 903 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: got to kind of come across an amalgamation of things 904 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,400 Speaker 1: to make a smart decision, and then you have to 905 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: make a value judgment based on what you encounter for 906 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: your specific situation. So again, like is college for dummies. Well, 907 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 1: we would say that college is still a great path 908 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: forward for a huge swathy young folks. But it's crucial 909 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: to go about the pursuit of higher education the right way, 910 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: and that evolves knowing why you're going and what you're 911 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: paying for, and yeah, realizing that there are still a 912 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: ton of ways to lower the cost of going to college, 913 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: sometimes making it completely free, and that is worth thinking about. 914 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 1: That's worth exploring because that substantially lower price tag it 915 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: changes the dynamics of your decision. It massively changes the 916 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: value proposition. And as the value proposition has gotten worse 917 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: and worse, as cost of skyrocketed, as people are graduating 918 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: just loaded down with NEBT and unable to make the 919 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: income that they hoped or thought they would be able 920 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: to make, you have to look out for yourself. You 921 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: have to look out for your friends, your kids, to 922 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: make sure they aren't making some sort of life altering 923 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: decision that's going to burden them with with debt for 924 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: the rest of their life. Man, it makes me makes 925 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: me think of like buying a new car. We pretty 926 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: much always say buying a new cars a bad idea, 927 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,240 Speaker 1: And I've like kind of lusted after the rivan trucks 928 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: for those beautiful electric trucks for a long time, and 929 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: because there's seventy thousand dollars though, so there's no way 930 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy it. But if they were fifteen thousand dollars, 931 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. We wouldn't talk bad about buying into electric 932 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: car because the value would make sense then, right. But 933 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,959 Speaker 1: for a lot of people were not principally against the 934 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: There's not like there's theology against life by buying a 935 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,359 Speaker 1: brand new vehicle. It's the costs. It's the fact that 936 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: the depreciation hit that you take, uh, leaves a lot 937 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: to be desired when it comes to the fact that, oh, 938 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: well I can buy a used vehicle, uh, and somebody 939 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: else has already taken that depreciation exactly. Yeah, So you 940 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: have to think about the value proposition in in everything 941 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: in life. And although it's harder to figure out when 942 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: it comes to college, it's important to get to the 943 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: bottom of it in your personal situation. That's the other thing. 944 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: There's no one size fits all response to this, but 945 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: hopefully we gave you some food for thought for what 946 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: it looks like for you, or for your kids or 947 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: for your friends to to pursue to pursue a higher 948 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: education and do it in the right way where you're 949 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: not saddled with debt that you can't pay off for 950 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: a long period of time, which just uh, you know, 951 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: those four years were fun, but they probably won't. What's 952 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: worth the price tag in that case? Yeah, exactly right, man, 953 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: And honestly, like, my biggest takeaway from this conversation is 954 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 1: like I'm right now, I'm thinking to myself, man, my 955 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: kids are all going to take gap years because if 956 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 1: there were anything like me, and hopefully they you know, 957 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: they're they're a nice mix. But between me and Kate, right, 958 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: maybe two of them they're more like her. We'll have 959 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: they we'll have more of a clear vision as to 960 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,439 Speaker 1: what they're wanting to do with their life. But maybe 961 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 1: the other two are are thinking. I don't know, because 962 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,399 Speaker 1: I don't know. If there's any word I said more 963 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: often as a senior than I don't know, because that 964 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: kind of summed up where I was at that point 965 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: in my life. And I think there's a lot that 966 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: you can gain by kind of stepping out into the 967 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: real world full time. And I think it can be 968 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: difficult for us, especially as parents, to allow our kids 969 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: to do that. And so we're ten years you know, 970 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 1: from having to make that decision with our oldest. But 971 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: I hope that I do have a similar point of 972 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: view as I do right now. And it's crazy, though. 973 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: Those conversations are, like we talked about, kind of starting 974 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: now anyway, and so it's nice to have this information 975 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: and be so I can kind of help her be 976 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: thoughtful along the way. It's not just some sort of 977 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: senior your discussion. Those discussions are starting earlier and earlier 978 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: and younger. Exactly. That's right, man, Yeah, okay, So our beer. 979 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: Let's get to our beer. You and I enjoyed food 980 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: or beer, and let's say, just so folks know, food 981 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: or is spelled fo e d e R, and they 982 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: complemented it by spelling beer b I e R just 983 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: to be fancy. But this is an oak aged Southern 984 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: wild ale. I can think of no style that aligns 985 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: more with my tastes than this beer. This is my 986 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: Southern brewing company. What your thoughts on this one? Okay? 987 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 1: First off, a food er by the way you spelled it, Yes, 988 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: but it is a giant oak vat right for aging 989 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: beer so that the beer can get a nice key 990 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,919 Speaker 1: flavor and to an age, and so this this beer 991 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,319 Speaker 1: is part and it's okay. It's got kind of those 992 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: two main characteristics of a photo beer going on. In 993 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: the difference between just a like a wine barrel or 994 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: an oak barrel and a footer is that footers are 995 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 1: like huge. They're like ten times larger than a traditional 996 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: Jack Daniels barrel that you might have seen. Maybe even 997 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: they're h I mean they're like the size of a 998 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: small room basically and there. But yeah, I completely agree. Man. 999 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: What was great about this one is that it wasn't 1000 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,439 Speaker 1: overly aggressive. There are some breweries out there which I love, 1001 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: um thinking of Cascade, I'm thinking of the brewery. They 1002 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: also make sours that fit within the description of incredibly 1003 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: aggressive sour beers. And this one just is super chill. 1004 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: It's like laid back. It's it's like you're sitting on 1005 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: the porch down the south like swatting up mosquitos. I 1006 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: don't know. It's just got this super laid back, chill 1007 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: vibe about it, which meant that by the time you 1008 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: got to the end of the class, you weren't you 1009 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: didn't have palette fatigue. And sometimes that can happen with 1010 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: some of those really acidic aggress of sours, but with 1011 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: this one, you got to the end of it and 1012 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: you were still wanting some more. I'm glad you and 1013 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 1: I were able to enjoy this one. And this is 1014 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: a brewery that they're in Athens, Georgia, so not too 1015 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: far away. We've totally got to check them out, like 1016 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 1: I've never been. Yeah, but I've had a couple of 1017 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 1: their beers and they've been delicious every time. They're so good. 1018 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: So next time we go, we're definitely gonna have to 1019 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: swing by Creature Conforts, but Southern Brewing Company is definitely 1020 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: going to get a visit most all right, that's gonna 1021 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: do it for this episode. If you want show notes 1022 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: to this episode, we have a lot of links, a 1023 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,399 Speaker 1: lot of actual websites and resources that we talked about. Well, 1024 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: we'll link to that stuff in in our show notes 1025 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: up on how to Money dot Com. That's right, But 1026 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,879 Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode, buddy, So until 1027 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.