WEBVTT - Bonus: Next Question Live! With Allbirds CEO Tim Brown 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.000 Hi everyone, I'm Gaty Current and welcome to next question. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.360 Today we get a look inside one of the most comfortable, sustainable, 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:14.400 and surprising innovations in shoes, the Wolf sneaker from All 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.880 Birds with the kiwi who invented them. The idea was weird, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.120 and it was weird and weird in a positive way. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.200 Tim Brown, along with his co founder and co CEO 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.720 Joey's Willinger, launched All Birds in two thousand and sixteen 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.440 as a little directed consumer shoe company. Tim was the 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.960 creative designer from New zealand Joey the analytical engineer from 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.320 San Francisco. Both happened to be soccer players and neither 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.040 had any experience in footwear. Largely, this was going to 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.599 succeed or file, at least in the first instance, by 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.360 by how strong that punish it was. And this entrepreneurial 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.000 thing is like another marriage enormous priscia. Not to mention 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.560 the financial risk, there is also the public risk of 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:02.600 something just being bad. And yet less than four years later, 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.880 All Birds is a one point for billion dollar company 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.679 with retail stores around the world and big plans to 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:15.759 expand into other fashion realms. So my next question, how 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.040 did All Birds become the little shoe Company That Could. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.959 I recently have the chance to interview Tim Brown for 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.920 our very first Next Question Live, an intimate innovation focus 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.400 series in front of a live audience in New York City. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.600 The last time I saw you, you interviewed Sheryl Sandberg 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.920 on stage and it was pretty intense interviews. I was 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.880 a little nervous, so let's go a friendly don't worry, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.479 you know, I think you're not in the hot seat 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.120 like Facebook was at the time. I went pretty easy 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.520 on Tim. We started with his background. He grew up 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.160 in Wellington, New Zealand, but came to the States for college, 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:01.080 attending the University of Cincinnati for design. Eventually he went 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.840 to the London School of Economics. But what's unique about 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.880 Tim's background is that he spent the better part of 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.320 his twenties as a professional athlete. When the rest of 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.600 his friends were grinding away in offices, Tim was on 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.960 the field playing soccer, or as it's known across the 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.600 pond football. You know, I don't think I as a 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.360 netural athlete by any stretch, but I was determined and 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.840 I was competitive, and I realized at a very very 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.600 early age I hated to lose, really really hated to 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.440 lose and um, and so that became a kind of 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.959 a theme of my sporting career. And you know, I 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.920 kept edging towards doing a little bit more, a little 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.480 bit more, and then you you know, the goals keep expanding, 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.680 and then all of a sudden, you know you're You're 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:44.720 at a World Cup and two thousand and ten. So 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.240 it was just an incredible journey and I was I 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.280 was lucky. It was a journey that set the flight 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.720 path to all birds. It was like a boyhood dreamed 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.520 to be able to play football professionally, and then you realize, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:58.680 like anything else, it's a job. And there's some great 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.600 things about it and some not so and things about it. 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:01.920 One of the great things about it was you've got 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.440 free gear and uh and I was sponsored by one 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.000 of the big sports where companies that I don't like 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:14.280 to name, and uh and um, I won't and and 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:15.480 you know, I got lots of free gear and it 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.280 was it was cool, it was awesome, and you know, 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.440 but this idea was really born out of that. I mean, 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.640 everything had logos. I felt like a kind of a 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.440 walking billboard at times for this brand, and certainly in 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.440 the context that I was living in, it was very 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.480 very hard to find a simple shoe without without logos. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.720 So I, rather naively, while I was still very much 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.800 focused on soccer knee deep and my career, set out 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.760 to try and see if I could make one. What 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.960 Tim wanted in a shoe was something simpler, no bells, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.240 no whistles, no fuss, a design that didn't need to 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.120 be thrown out and updated every year. And he didn't 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.240 think he was the only one who wanted that. Did 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.920 the world need another shoe brand? No, but I definitely 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.600 saw a kind of a white space for a for 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.000 a different type of design philosophy. But the real insight 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.760 came when in one of my off seasons, I flew 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.560 to a footwear factory that I found online, and I 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.080 walked into this whole new world that I knew absolutely 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:14.200 nothing about. That footwear factory was in Indonesia, where Tim 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.479 found a world of synthetic fabrics, cheap shoes made cheaply 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.440 for maximum profit. He left the factory with a mission 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.479 I think I'm gonna make. I'm gonna make a couple 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:26.640 of thousand pairs of shoes, which was the minimum that 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.640 the guy would make and I didn't have a plan 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:30.800 much beyond that except that I thought I might sell 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.680 them to my teammates or something um and that's what 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.120 I did. What did you see that was missing from 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.880 the landscape in terms of a shoe and shoe production? 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.960 So it becomes three things. So the first one's design, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.960 and I mean that's as clear to me today as 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:48.919 any you know, as as a as kind of a 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.840 minimalist who had been trained in this idea of sort 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.359 of taking things away of design as sort of the 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.040 form following the function. That was really clear. And then 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.200 it became about materials because it it seemed obvious to 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.960 me that the footware industry had defaulted to making things 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.039 out of synthetic materials largely based on cost, and that 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.000 there was an opportunity with different materials that had been overlooked. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.080 And I came back, I was back in New Zealand 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.800 reading a magazine literally about this huge decline of the 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.960 wool industry in New Zealand and how they were desperate 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.480 for innovation. This was a very very important primary industry 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.320 in New Zealand that had been really destroyed, largely by 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.320 the synthetic industry over a long period of time and 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.159 was crying out for innovation, and so I applied for 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.360 this grant while I was still playing soccer. That was successful. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.000 That was how desperate they were. And they started making 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.599 this material to make shoes out of wall and and 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.680 this went on for years and again, I mean, this 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:45.440 is happening over so long, So I think the story 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.200 starts probably two thousand and seven, and I'm still chipping 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.960 away at this like three or four years later. So 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.600 it's happening slowly. But you know that the opportunity used 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.400 these different types of materials seemed wise. No one done 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.680 this before. This idea seems so obvious, And everyone I 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.120 talked to about it, they said, why has that not 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.520 been done before? It's probably a dumb idea, but why 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.320 has it not been done before? The material seemed attractive 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:13.160 to you in terms of comfort and style and what else. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.800 So peak sheep in New Zealand is sort of ninety 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.680 eight circon eight and there's seventy million sheep, and now 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.360 there's less than thirty million, five million, And no one 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.039 in New Zealand is growing up dreaming of being a 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.360 sheep farmer. So this is this is an industry that's 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.920 crying out for innovation. I get this grant, it comes 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.800 out of a research lab with this material, and you know, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.280 I subsequently go to the World Cup, retire, and all 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.440 of a sudden show up at Business School in London, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.240 which is where I went, and I have this material 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.760 that has largely been made for me with no restrictions, 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.440 that's taken a long time, and a little bit of 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:49.400 shoemaking knowledge from my forays into Indonesia, and so again 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.800 another moment of time just to put these two things together, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.919 and you know, you start to understand that wool is 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.880 this incredibly soft, you know, wicks away moisture that's sort 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.880 of really the ultimate natural performance for bricks. I started 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.480 to see the opportunities and I understood them inherently as 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.400 a kiewie. I think in terms of the possibility of 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.160 this material. But I hadn't yet pieced together the third 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.080 piece of this and how it fits into the topic 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.120 of sustainability. It wasn't what I was focused on. It 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.200 was the product. But that was the sort of sequence 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.320 of events and we should mention along the way. You 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.320 went to the London School of Economics, and then you 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.360 went to business school at Calart. Right, yes, So I 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.320 retired from sport after the World Carpet was never going 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.600 to get any better than that, and I decided to 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:31.360 get serious about life at thirty two, and I had 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.440 an entrepreneurship class at Kellogg taught by a prophet called 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.240 Carter cast who was a former CEO of Walmart dot com, 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.960 this amazing guy, and it was. It was a sixty 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.520 ten weeks entrepreneurship class and everyone had to pitch an idea. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.280 And so I came in and there was a class 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.280 not dis similar to this in size, and everyone had 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:51.960 one minute to pitch their idea. And I got up 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.920 and I said wall shoes. And they voted down the 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.480 ideas until there was ten teams of six, and miraculously 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:00.920 wall Shoes got picked. Then all of a sudden, I 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.040 had this like six person team at business school running 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.000 at this idea in a way in ways that that 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:06.880 you know, I had never really thought about it. And 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.440 it was this this weird moment you have these moments. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.720 That was a moment when if if the idea hadn't 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.840 been picked in that particular class, maybe it doesn't happen. 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.800 Um And we ran with it when we come back 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.800 how Tim picked his partner and how their professional marriage 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:31.160 almost killed the awbird stream. Tim Brown was eager to 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 see if his wool shoe idea had any traction, so 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.360 he went back home to New Zealand, shot a little 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.040 video on a friend's sheep farm and posted it along 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.480 with the six pairs of wool shoes he had made 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.680 so far on Kickstarter. We baked on a journey to 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.240 create off the shoe designed specifically for socless shoe, but 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.200 it as few scenes as possible a shoe the bridge 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.679 sport and fashion. It was as comfortable with a peer 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.319 of jeans as it wasn't. And this is a true story. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:58.960 Before my mom could even work out how to buy 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.120 up here on kickstar up, she's having some technical problems 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.720 with a credit card at checkout. We sold the thousand 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.760 peers that we could make because that's all I could 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.800 in four days, and it did ad dollars and my 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:10.760 phone didn't stop buzzing and I had to switch it 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.120 off because of the trajector it was on and not 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.360 being able to deliver on the on the on the product. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.400 So I was shocked and scared. It's very easy to 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.120 have an idea much much harder to actually put it 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.800 in front of people that you don't know and ask 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.280 for money out of their wallet. And the sooner you 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.920 do that, the sooner this things becomes real. And it's 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.800 also the moment, if you're doing it right, you get 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.040 really scared. And that's what I was. I was really 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:39.440 scared because I know, the truth be told, I didn't 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.000 really know how I was going to make all of 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.360 these things. I didn't really have any knowledge of shoes, 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.480 and it turns out they're extraordinarily difficult to make, and 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:47.480 I was making it with material that had never been 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:48.960 used before. So there was a bunch of things that 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.760 were difficult about it. Anyone who has built anything, um 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.840 you know, will tell you there is that moment where 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.679 you you doubt yourself and you know you've got to 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:01.000 push through and and and you lean on your family 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.559 and your friends, and um you know, my girlfriend now 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.000 wife paid some of the bills, and you pushed through. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.040 And I had a very very difficult year, um but delivered, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.080 delivered the thousand piers of shoes around the world for 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.240 the most part, and um you know, was it another juncture. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:20.240 The Kickstarter campaign attracted a lot of attention from consumers 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:26.000 and also investors. It should have been a big confidence boost. Instead, 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:30.720 Tim was full of self doubt. You know, my dad 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.800 had started to refer to me as a cobbler, which 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.880 was really annoying. And so you're like, what am I? 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.719 What am I doing? And this is I mean, this 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:39.560 is a little maybe it's become almost a little bit 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.360 of a cliche conversation these days, but I was kind 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.200 of missing the why behind this whole thing. Tim's wife's 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.920 roommate from Dartmouth is married to Joey's Willinger, an engineer 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.200 living in San Francisco. Joey would help Tim figure out 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:59.040 the why. He had really committed his career to um 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.520 sustainability and use of renewable materials, and for my you know, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.240 as clear as my design vision was, he had an 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.559 equally clear vision around the sort of revolution that was 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.680 going to come and sustainability and sustainable manufacturing that the 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.440 world was going to need to find a better ways 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.120 to make things, in his words, and it was going 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.960 to happen in a whole bunch of industries. But the 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:22.680 first industry that was going to lead the way was 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.520 the fashion industry, and moreover, the fashion industry had a 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.400 real problem to solve. UM. You know, I had Enjoy 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.040 an engineer, he'd been to Warton. He was he was, 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.720 in many ways a scientist, anchored in the materials and 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:39.040 the operational side of it UM And so I found 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:40.160 the person that could do all the bit so I 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.800 didn't want to do so it was perfect. It was perfect, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:47.160 and it was official. Albert's was up and running online 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.880 and crushing it, but already there were cracks in the relationship. Yeah, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.000 So we started working out of his his mother in 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.280 law's house in San Raphael. We raised a couple of 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.599 million dollars in Ventura Capital Um and you know, I 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.480 think we had five employees. We launched. We launched All 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.360 Birds on the first of March, and we had a 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.120 business plan that was largely made up and fabricated. Ah. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:11.400 And you know, we did a million dollars in the 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.840 first month, blew through I think our first three years 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:16.920 of sales inside the first six months or so. It 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.000 was just it. We just took this thing, took off 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.960 in a way that we could never have imagined. And we're, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.520 you know, a month into this and and I'm looking 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.360 at him and I think he's looking at me and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.960 we're saying, I don't think I want to work with 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.120 you anymore, you know. And I think we've just been 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.880 through this enormously, like six or seven months of heads down, 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.640 just grinding with all the uncertainty of of of whether 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.160 this was going to completely fail and all the embarrassment 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.240 that would come with that, and it had actually gone well, 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.920 but just the emotion of building something of you know, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.360 with that much pressure on on on on so many things. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:51.959 And Joey had two little kids at the time he 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.320 stepped away from this well paying job, and it was 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.720 a moment where I just think we we let it 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.400 all out and all the good and the bag came 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.960 out for a series of beers on one afternoon and 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.600 and um, you know, it was a pretty important moment. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.560 It's an opportunity to sort of understand people's hopes and 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.200 fears could have gone either way. I think, what is 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.280 he good at? And what are you good at? Uh? 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.600 You know, he there's a bunch of things, very different 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.040 sort of skill sets. He's you know, he's an analytical engineer. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.199 I'm a I'm a creative designer. So I think that's 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.840 a very big distinction. He's an American and I'm in 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.800 New Zealander. Uh and and that cultural um nuance. I 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.160 actually is married to an American. These two cultures go 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.800 together so well, I think in many ways. And um 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.440 and uh, you know, the sense of humor and maybe 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.360 New Zealander's lack of confidence and uh, I won't you know, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.920 I won't say anything. You know what I'm talking about Americans. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.400 I don't like that. At times. I said that very politely. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.000 So these two things kind of coming together. I was 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.800 taught to to not talk up ideas and have big ones. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.600 Culturally in New zealand's a litt bit of a problem 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.719 in some ways. Like it's like you would never tell 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:03.959 anyone as a kid you wanted to go to the 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.560 World Cup. You just would never do that. That's that's 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.600 how you get beaten up at school, you know, because 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.079 you think you're good, and you know, you think a 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.480 humility is really valued. It's really valued to a point, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.440 almost to a fault. And then you know, when I 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.480 came to America, the biggest gift that America has given 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.000 me is like, yeah, it's okay to say you're going 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.920 to go do something good and then get after it. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.560 There's absolutely no shame either if it doesn't go right, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.120 that is a gift as well. And and so those 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.000 two things coming together as has been really really valuable. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.880 And then we split it as co CEOs and I 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.720 ran the product and the brand and he ran the 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.600 sort of operations in the supply chain and the finance 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.400 and the technology, and it's worked out really well. Coming 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.880 up why shoes are destroying the environment and how Albert's 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:54.000 wants to fix that. There's a lot of debate around 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.120 just how bad the fashion industry is for the environment. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:05.320 It's complex and multilayered, supply I chain, touches, agriculture, livestock, petroleum, mining, construction, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:10.640 shipping and manufacturing, and the advent of fast fashion the 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.200 mass manufacturing of cheap, trendy clothes hasn't helped. But shoes 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.240 in particular have a terrible wrap. She shoe shaved me 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:24.320 because they essentially never biodegrade. They just live on and 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.200 on and on, and twenty billion pairs of shoes are 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:32.800 manufactured every single year. So where does that leave all birds? 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.440 Joey had an enormous amount of expertise here, but we 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.400 believed we could do it differently, that we could bring 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:44.400 UM new materials to beer and footwear UM, and we 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.040 could focus deeply on them and innovati around them. We 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:50.880 could do that not just because it's the right thing 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.800 to do, but do it because it made more comfortable 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.840 products and a better experience. And I think that's a 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.680 really key early insight. People don't buy sustainability that by 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.560 great products, and it's incumbent on sort of business to 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.600 sort of change and make things in a bit away. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.360 And that was a really key kind of plank for 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.320 for the way that we were working. And we set 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:09.360 off to do that, and we did it with one 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.840 material and wall, and we've added another in in eucalyptus 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.040 fiber and subsequently again a soul made from sugarcane. And 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.680 you know, our belief is that natural materials are the 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:27.040 pathway to better practice for the fashion industry. You're certified 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.760 v CORE and you've stayed true to your commitment. UM. 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.680 Not only in the construction of the shoes, are you 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.880 trying to be environmentally sensitive, but what about all up 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.080 and down the supply chain. It's a lot to do 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.000 with certifications. You can't be everywhere, so you need to 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.920 invest in materials that UM. You know, the best in 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.000 the business and and and lean into certifications that are 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.920 meeting the right type of environmental standards. And we do 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.800 it in the case of our wall with ZQ bond, 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:58.560 SUCRE with a sugar and FFC for its Stewardship Council 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.600 for our eucalyptus. So those things are really important. And 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.600 then you know, you want to you want to also 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.600 sort of measure and understand your carbon. So that was 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.320 that was another big thing. And you know, I think 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.840 it's a really key point because the topic of sustainability 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.239 is a really complicated and confusing one. And I think 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.160 if we went we went around this room and ask people, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.520 like what does sustainability mean? Some people might say it's 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.200 about water usage and land usage, and others might say 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.399 ee quality, and someone else is going to say end 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:30.080 of life, uh, you know, or transport um and and 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.879 and the reality is all those are true and important, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.000 but they ladder up to the singular idea that carbon 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.240 is the is the scorecard that we're going to be 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.239 judged by as we as we work our way out 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.560 of this environmental crisis that we're in. And so that 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.320 was a kind of a key kind of insight for 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.040 us as we've as we've gone through, so measuring carbon 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.480 deeply all the way through our supply chain is something 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.880 that we've we've done largely from the beginning. Let's talk 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.880 about the Amazon controversy. Were you surprised that they made 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:04.560 all birds cats? And how how pissed off are you? Uh? 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.159 You know, it's we're not the first company to have 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.920 been to being imitated by them when it happens to you, Yeah, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.920 you know, there was frustration. I mean, I think we've 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.240 we've we've had so many copycats since we've launched. It's 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.320 been mind blowing. And I want to say there's north 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.439 of twenty at least, um, and they cropped up at 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.520 a regular, on a regular basis. But when the world's 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.359 you know, one of the world's most valuable companies does it, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.800 and what we sort of thought was it was a 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.280 little bit of an unfair way. Um, we were disappointed. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.280 And more importantly, I think it comes aided pretty closely 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.280 with you know, some of the urgency that that consumers 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.119 and customers are feeling around the environment and sustainability. And 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.879 they copy the design and they don't copy our materials, 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.560 and so we're thinking, Okay, we're fear is fear copy 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.760 of the design. But you know what would be really 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.040 great is if you copied, you copied the spirit of 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.960 what we're doing. And in fact, Joey, your partner post 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.160 did an open letter on Medium to Amazon last month. 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.399 He invited the company to steal your sustainability practices, not 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.040 just your designs, and and are you optimistic that they'll 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.600 take you up on that? And one person asked me 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.920 to ask you if you've ever heard from Jeff Bezos 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:21.080 after he stole your shoe. Uh, we haven't, but we 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.320 hope to. And genuinely, I mean, our souls are made 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.240 from sugar cane, and when we launched that material innovation, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.359 we made an open source so that everyone could use it. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.119 In fact, I think that's an interesting point, tim that 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.120 you share your innovation with anyone, because you would love 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.840 a lot of people to use these techniques and other 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.879 shoes and other products in general. Absolutely, and we do 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.760 that not just because we're good guys. Although we completely 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.200 understand that the topic or the challenge of sustainability is 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.320 not going to be solved by all birds, or even 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.440 by one brand. It's going to be solved by lots 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.159 of companies sharing best practice and working together, and so 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.840 we've understood that it's been foundational. But we also know 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.040 is that this new material, the more people that use that, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.560 the cheaper it would become. And that's what's happened. And 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.600 there's now twenty companies I believe, planning to use this 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.160 material this year. So you know, we sort of said, 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.080 Mr Mr Bezos and Amazon, why don't you use that too? 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.120 That would be great. And so that was the source 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.680 of Joey's litter and and and it went, well, you've 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.600 got sixteen retail stores worldwide and you're opening up twenty 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.040 new retail locations. I guess, yeah, correct, it's really exciting 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.520 and retail has been phenomenal for us. That's so interesting 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.320