Speaker 1: Guess what, mango? What's that? Will? All right? So I
Speaker 1: have something I need to get off my chest. But
Speaker 1: before I do, let me ask you this. Did you
Speaker 1: grow up around show biz or Chucky Cheese? I think
Speaker 1: we actually had both in Delaware. They were both pretty
Speaker 1: popular for breathdays. Seriously, you had both? Alright, Well, we
Speaker 1: we only had show Biz near us. And there's only
Speaker 1: one thing I actually really remember from going to show biz.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a five or six year old,
Speaker 1: and it was the Rock a Fire Explosion Band. You
Speaker 1: remember these guys? Yeah, of course, Mitzy Mazzarella, Fast Geronimo
Speaker 1: and the Keys. How can you forget? Well, I certainly
Speaker 1: won't ever forget them, nor will I ever forget where
Speaker 1: I used to stand when I watched them perform. You know,
Speaker 1: Showbiz had this huge arcade room, but then you'd walk
Speaker 1: around the corner into this dark room where this weird
Speaker 1: animatronic band was playing. And I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: been more simultaneously terrified and yet completely mesmerized as I
Speaker 1: was when I watched the Rock a Fire Explosion performing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess is you weren't alone in that feeling. Well,
Speaker 1: so I'd stand in the doorway, and I'd watch them
Speaker 1: because for some reason I couldn't get enough of these guys.
Speaker 1: And you know, as you mentioned, he had fat s Geronimo,
Speaker 1: the gorilla on the keys. He was always arguing with
Speaker 1: the guy Rolf de Wolf, the you know, the weird
Speaker 1: ventrilocust wolf. You remember this. And then there was Billy
Speaker 1: Bob who fortunately he was the brown bear that would
Speaker 1: usually keep the piece among the band. And then you
Speaker 1: had what was his name? He was beach Bear who
Speaker 1: always seemed high and he was on the guitar. And
Speaker 1: then Duke LaRue, the want to be astronaut, this idiot
Speaker 1: mud who always missed his cue on the drums. Of
Speaker 1: course you mentioned Mitzi Mozzarella, the cheerleader who shared my
Speaker 1: love of Michael Jackson songs. There's one more. Why am
Speaker 1: I forgetting this embarrassing Who was the other one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But wasn't there like a drunk bird? All right? How
Speaker 1: can they forget looney Bird, the alcoholic bird who hung
Speaker 1: out in that barrel of gasohol? What a crew? I know,
Speaker 1: you look back on it and it's so weird, Like
Speaker 1: when the world were they thinking with that band? I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I loved them, and I was so
Speaker 1: scared of them. And you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is about dark and weird things that draw us in.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I had no idea there was
Speaker 1: an even darker and weirder story playing out for Showbiz
Speaker 1: at the time. This was near the end of the
Speaker 1: show Biz Versus Chucky Cheese pizza war, which is such
Speaker 1: a strange story, and it's just one of the stories
Speaker 1: that's made us ask the question does pizza bring out
Speaker 1: the worst in people? So that's what we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about today. Let's get started. Yeah right, Hey, their
Speaker 1: podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson
Speaker 1: and it's always I'm joined by my good friend men
Speaker 1: guest Ticketer, and on the other side of that soundproof glasses,
Speaker 1: the man with the most angelic voice you've never heard,
Speaker 1: our brilliant producer, Tristan McNeil. You ready to talk about
Speaker 1: pizza Mango? I am, And I know we've been talking
Speaker 1: about doing a pizza themed episode for a while now,
Speaker 1: and both of us are huge pizza lovers. I mean,
Speaker 1: who's who's not a pizza lover? Which is a good point,
Speaker 1: but it was wild as we started digging into the research,
Speaker 1: we just found so many stories about the dark history
Speaker 1: of pizza, like pizza wars and organized crime, so so
Speaker 1: we decided to focus on those. We'll take a little break,
Speaker 1: at least from the from the Dark Side to talk
Speaker 1: to one of our favorite pizza geniuses. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking to Scott Weener, the founder of Scott's
Speaker 1: Pizza Tours and and he's actually the world record holder
Speaker 1: for the largest collection of pizza boxes. He's super interesting
Speaker 1: and he knows more about pizza history than anyone I know.
Speaker 1: He's definitely a pizza genius. All right, Well, let's dive
Speaker 1: into our topic. And we opened the show by talking
Speaker 1: about show biz and the fact that I had no
Speaker 1: idea that by walking into one of these I was
Speaker 1: unknowingly participating in one of the greatest pizza wars of
Speaker 1: all time and probably would have made it that much
Speaker 1: more exciting. So why don't we start with that one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. I mean, it doesn't get that
Speaker 1: much juicier than a battle between the creator of Pong
Speaker 1: and the inventor of Whack a Mole. Now, it definitely doesn't.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, why don't you give us some of
Speaker 1: the background on how both Chucky Cheese and show Biz
Speaker 1: got started. So, Hockey Cheese was first, and in fact,
Speaker 1: the first one opened in San Jose a couple of
Speaker 1: years before either of us was born. This was way
Speaker 1: back in nineteen seven and and it was actually started
Speaker 1: by Nolan Bushnell, the founder of Atari. He's also the
Speaker 1: creator of Pong. He came up with the idea for
Speaker 1: the restaurant because he was spending so much of his
Speaker 1: time selling Atari consoles like to arcades. He thought there
Speaker 1: might be more money on the other side of the business,
Speaker 1: on the arcade end, so he dreamed up this idea
Speaker 1: for what would become Chuck E Cheese Pizza Time Theater. Well,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was interesting. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: both the animatronic performers and the pizza were part of
Speaker 1: this concept from from the very beginning. So why why
Speaker 1: don't you talk about those for just a minute. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were, and both were kind of brilliant. What's more
Speaker 1: appetizing than an animatronic rat? Right? Well, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: why he chose a rat exactly, but it is interesting
Speaker 1: to hear is thinking on the animatronics. So he knew
Speaker 1: parents probably wouldn't be excited to bring their families to
Speaker 1: a typical arcade, so he was looking for a way
Speaker 1: to bring in some entertainment and make to ask much
Speaker 1: about the environment as it was the arcade games. Bushnell
Speaker 1: did a really interesting interview with The Atlantic a few
Speaker 1: years ago, and in it he says this, the reason
Speaker 1: for doing the animals was not for the kids. It
Speaker 1: was meant to be a head fake for the parents, right.
Speaker 1: And so then he also goes on to talk about
Speaker 1: the pizza, and he explains there aren't too many ways
Speaker 1: to screw it up. If the dough is good, the
Speaker 1: cheese is good, and the sauce is good, the pizza
Speaker 1: is good. I didn't have any preconceived idea that I
Speaker 1: knew how to run a restaurant, but I knew simple
Speaker 1: was better. But both seems smart. I mean, it makes sense,
Speaker 1: all right. So what happens next, Well, Bushnell feels he's
Speaker 1: onto something and he wants to expand, so he starts
Speaker 1: looking for investors and enter Bob Brock, who's chairman of
Speaker 1: the Brock Hotel Corporation and a very successful franchise e
Speaker 1: of holiday inns. So the two of them started working
Speaker 1: together on a deal to rapidly expand the business, and
Speaker 1: Bushnell's job was really to figure out how to improve
Speaker 1: the animatronics so these things could be in restaurants all
Speaker 1: over the country if the rollout went well. All right,
Speaker 1: So this is this is around nineteen seventy nine, is
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah, And this is actually where the drama starts.
Speaker 1: It was right after these big discussions that Brock meets
Speaker 1: this young inventor, Aaron Fector, who's also the inventor of
Speaker 1: the Whack a Mole, And in weird timing, in Factor
Speaker 1: has been working on this animatronic band he called the
Speaker 1: wolf Pack five, and Brock felt they were much better
Speaker 1: than what Bushnell was doing. All right, So that Brock
Speaker 1: gets nervous about this and he's kind of uncertain, I guess,
Speaker 1: about the quality of the animatronics in in Chucky Cheese exactly,
Speaker 1: so much so that he actually decides to cancel his
Speaker 1: deal with Bushnell, and then he strikes a deal with
Speaker 1: Factor to make pretty much the same concept and in
Speaker 1: the first Showbiz Pizza opened in Kansas City. That's such
Speaker 1: a bold move, that's crazy, and you know, it's weird
Speaker 1: that they just kept the pizza element as well, like
Speaker 1: they didn't seem to try to make it that much different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you think back to the Bushnell quote about
Speaker 1: why pizza earlier, it's a simple food. So it made
Speaker 1: it easier for them to move quickly. And uh, I
Speaker 1: guess that's where a rocket fire explosion was born, right
Speaker 1: from the very beginning there. And you know, at that time,
Speaker 1: I had no idea was watching such a knockoff act.
Speaker 1: But if you look at them, they kind of just
Speaker 1: look shady, right they do. And I'm guessing it didn't
Speaker 1: take long for the lawsuits to come after that, right,
Speaker 1: So first Chuck E Cheese suit Showbiz, and then Showbiz
Speaker 1: filed the countersuit and it ultimately settled in with Showbiz
Speaker 1: agreeing to pay Chuck E Cheese a portion of their
Speaker 1: profits for something like fourteen or fifteen years. Well, and
Speaker 1: you know, this is an interesting time to be in
Speaker 1: this business because you know, we talked about this in
Speaker 1: our Weird Summer Travel Guide episode. This was around the
Speaker 1: time that the video game market experienced a pretty big crash,
Speaker 1: so it was obviously not good for either of these
Speaker 1: chains and not at all, and in fact, it hit
Speaker 1: Chuck E Cheese so hard that Bushnell eventually had to
Speaker 1: file for bankruptcy. And you know, after he was forced
Speaker 1: out of the company, Chuck E Cheese was acquired by Chauviz.
Speaker 1: So I guess ultimately Mr whack a Mole won the
Speaker 1: war here. Yes, so it's fair to say he won
Speaker 1: the battle. But in the end they both lost the war.
Speaker 1: And how is that? Well, Chauviz wasn't exactly thriving, and
Speaker 1: in their efforts to improve the company for Foreman's factor
Speaker 1: lost out and he left with the Rock Fire Band,
Speaker 1: and so that was the last we saw them in
Speaker 1: show biz. Then the whole company rebranded as c EC Entertainment. Well,
Speaker 1: and now I see there are more than five hundred
Speaker 1: Chucky Cheese locations around the country. Yeah, it's still a
Speaker 1: big deal, It definitely is. Well that that's such a
Speaker 1: weird but interesting story. All right, Well, let's talk about
Speaker 1: another battle where I found some of the trash talking
Speaker 1: pretty funny. That was the result of McDonald's attempt to
Speaker 1: enter the pizza market, something I didn't really remember. And
Speaker 1: this was back in the late eighties. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good one. So why don't you take this one all right, Well,
Speaker 1: just a little bit of background on this one. And
Speaker 1: by the way, there's a great mental flaw story on
Speaker 1: this from Jake Rosen, one of our favorite writers there.
Speaker 1: So let's go back to the early nineteen eighties. McDonald's
Speaker 1: is an absolute giant, and as Jake pointed out, they
Speaker 1: owned nearly forty of what was then a forty eight
Speaker 1: billion dollar burger market, so incredible. Well, and they were
Speaker 1: looking for ways to keep growing from there, and because
Speaker 1: they were looking to break into the dinner game and
Speaker 1: a much big your way, and the idea of taking
Speaker 1: over a meal time was not foreign to them. And
Speaker 1: they've done this in the early seventies when they introduced
Speaker 1: the egg McMuffin. And you know, despite being mocked by critics,
Speaker 1: that McMuffin was a huge success. Well, their customers would
Speaker 1: have disagreed. Their customers were really digging them. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess so you're saying they had their eyes on
Speaker 1: dinner though, Yeah, you know, they'd conquered lunch and breakfast,
Speaker 1: and next was figuring out how to get people into
Speaker 1: their locations at night, because for one reason or another,
Speaker 1: people saw burgers and their other offerings as more of
Speaker 1: a lunch thing, and that's when they started looking at
Speaker 1: this rapidly growing pizza market, and so you look at
Speaker 1: the late nineteen eighties, they decided it was time to
Speaker 1: make a move. Well, it is important to note that,
Speaker 1: unlike the McMuffin introduction, that this was not going to
Speaker 1: be an easy transition when it came to the layout
Speaker 1: of their stores and their kitchens specifically, and this was
Speaker 1: honestly something I had not really thought about. So first
Speaker 1: they had to develop this super quick cook oven and
Speaker 1: it wasn't exactly small, and so you know, in order
Speaker 1: to include the oven and other equipment related to it,
Speaker 1: they had to remodel their restaurants. And that wasn't actually
Speaker 1: the only space problem against something I had not really
Speaker 1: thought much about until doing their research here, it was
Speaker 1: the windows and their drive through. So think about trying
Speaker 1: to fit a full pizza through one of those tiny windows.
Speaker 1: So in order to serve the pizza, they'd have to
Speaker 1: go back and expand all of them. But but this
Speaker 1: didn't stop them from trying, oh not at all, not
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, it might have slowed down the
Speaker 1: rate at which they tried to do some of their
Speaker 1: early testing, but in they began testing in a couple
Speaker 1: dozen locations in Indiana and Kentucky, and uh, this is
Speaker 1: where the trash talking started, because I really want to
Speaker 1: get to the trash. All right, we'll get to the
Speaker 1: trash talking. So enter Pizza Hut. So you know, they
Speaker 1: had to be at least a little bit nervous. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were the giant in the pizza business, but nobody
Speaker 1: was bigger than McDonald's, so this was definitely a threat
Speaker 1: and they had to be ready with some good trash talking. Well,
Speaker 1: if you look back at one of the regional ads,
Speaker 1: they warned Powle, don't make a mixtak to get there,
Speaker 1: really warning people about that. And then they started talking
Speaker 1: about their competitions. Mick frozen dough. That's that's such a
Speaker 1: low blow. I kind of like, how whenever you want
Speaker 1: to make fun of McDonald's, the go to is just
Speaker 1: to add Mick in front of anything exactly. That's why
Speaker 1: it's so ridiculous. I mean I I actually, for some
Speaker 1: reason started thinking about a brainstorming session at the Pizza
Speaker 1: Hut headquarters where they were just like, al right, what
Speaker 1: should we put Mick in front of to show those
Speaker 1: guys who's boss would be like the one genius. He
Speaker 1: just rattles off like, hey, don't make a mistake by
Speaker 1: eating a mc frozen pizza because it's the mic worst.
Speaker 1: And they were all like, that's brilliant. You don't mess
Speaker 1: with the hot that's why they hand the big box.
Speaker 1: You can tell. I thought about this a little little
Speaker 1: too much. So so was it the trash talking that
Speaker 1: ultimately can the pizza for them? Well, I doubt that
Speaker 1: had that much to do with it, despite how brilliant
Speaker 1: those mick lines were. But but I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: like McDonald's isn't used to some portion of the population
Speaker 1: mocking their food. And ultimately there were bigger factors beyond
Speaker 1: the restructuring of the restaurants that I mentioned earlier. So
Speaker 1: I think about prep time. I mean, this was a
Speaker 1: big factor. Imagine pulling up to a window and ordering
Speaker 1: a couple of burgers for one person and pizza for another.
Speaker 1: So they've got the quick burger thing down to a science.
Speaker 1: I mean, those suckers are ready in a minute, and
Speaker 1: they're waiting for you at the window right as you
Speaker 1: pull up. But a pizza, even if it's quick, even
Speaker 1: if it only takes five minutes. I mean that feels
Speaker 1: like an eternity for people who are used to an
Speaker 1: almost instant drive through service. You know. Plus the rest
Speaker 1: of their order is just sitting there getting cold as
Speaker 1: they're waiting on the pizza. Yeah, you can see why
Speaker 1: that would be a problem. Well, and the other issue
Speaker 1: was price. I mean it's it's not like pizzas are
Speaker 1: expensive and the broader food market, but when customers are
Speaker 1: used to spending a buck or two Parode and m
Speaker 1: McDonald's and eight item feels expensive. The psychology of this,
Speaker 1: you know, the pricing of things. It's weird, but it's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So how did all play out? Well, by the early
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, pizzas were being served in I think about
Speaker 1: a third of their locations, but it just wasn't working,
Speaker 1: and so they disappeared as quickly as they came. I
Speaker 1: mean you might say they were Mick history. I've been
Speaker 1: practicing working on. Yeah, I think I need a little
Speaker 1: break after that joke. So why don't we get our
Speaker 1: pizza genius on the line. All right, Well, Mago, I
Speaker 1: know we've been talking about pizza wars, and later on
Speaker 1: in the episode, it's gonna get even a little bit darker.
Speaker 1: So I thought we should take a break and talk
Speaker 1: about some of the fun pizza stuff. We're both huge
Speaker 1: pizza fans, and there's obviously plenty of reasons to celebrate pizza.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think we'll do another episode in the
Speaker 1: not too distant future about all the fun facts about pizza.
Speaker 1: But today we've got Scott Wiener on the program. Scott's
Speaker 1: an insane pizza connoisseur. He's the owner of Scott's Pizza Tours.
Speaker 1: He also consults on pizza part allers, writes a column
Speaker 1: for Pizza Today magazine, Sounds Qualified all the pizza. He
Speaker 1: judges international pizza competition and holds the Guinness Book record
Speaker 1: for the largest collection of pizza boxes. So, Scott, welcome
Speaker 1: to Part Time Genius. Thanks so much for having me. Hey,
Speaker 1: so so, one of the first things I heard about
Speaker 1: you is that you loved pizza so much you decided
Speaker 1: to turn that into a career. How do you go
Speaker 1: about making pizza your career? And were people skeptical when
Speaker 1: you told them that's what you were doing. You know,
Speaker 1: I had no idea what it was going to be
Speaker 1: like in the beginning. I just thought Hey, wouldn't be
Speaker 1: great if I could eat pizza for a living. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what is it, but I you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I can't do a book. Nobody
Speaker 1: knows who the heck I am, and I don't know much,
Speaker 1: and I can't write a blog because actually at the time,
Speaker 1: I had no internet where I lived. And I figured, well,
Speaker 1: what if we did something live action? And there's nothing
Speaker 1: better than live action doing a tour. So I figured, Oh,
Speaker 1: take people around the cool pizzaree is, show them the ovens,
Speaker 1: show them the kitch, and we'll eat pizza. I'll explain
Speaker 1: what's going on in the kitchen and it'll be like
Speaker 1: a live action food TV show. And that was that.
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. I remember you telling us you kind
Speaker 1: of have a strict count of how many pizza slices
Speaker 1: you allow yourself every week because you're such a pizza fanatic.
Speaker 1: So what do you limit yourself to? So my limit
Speaker 1: is fifteen slices per week. It begins Monday morning Slobo
Speaker 1: one am, and uh and Sunday night. And you know what,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to keep to that low of a
Speaker 1: limit because I'm exposed to somewhere between four and ten.
Speaker 1: Pizza three is every day, and so you have to
Speaker 1: say to eight, pizza three is a day. No, I
Speaker 1: can't eat the slice right now. It's really tough. That's
Speaker 1: pretty incredible, and you never get sick of it. I
Speaker 1: haven't gotten sick of it yet. But I'm always nervous
Speaker 1: about it. And that's why I have this limit. It's
Speaker 1: just so I don't lose that edge. I want to
Speaker 1: stay interested in pizza. And I'm worried that what if
Speaker 1: I go overboard one week and you know when you're
Speaker 1: a kid and you ate too many jelly beans and
Speaker 1: then he's like candy jelly beans anymore. I don't want
Speaker 1: to live that life. That's pretty great. So I just
Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta, and it's not like New York where
Speaker 1: you can get slices on every block, and so I
Speaker 1: was wondering, how do you plan the perfect pizza crawl
Speaker 1: in the city you don't know. So if I'm planning
Speaker 1: a pizza crawl in the city I haven't been to before,
Speaker 1: I always start by putting up a post on Twitter
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Hey, anybody have ideas for pizzeria's And then
Speaker 1: I sort of I called together a lift based on
Speaker 1: the most suggestions. I get a cross reference that with
Speaker 1: recommendations people have given me on my pizza tours, which
Speaker 1: of course I keep a long spreadsheet about that, and
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of narrow it down to what
Speaker 1: days is a week, or these pizzeria's open, what times
Speaker 1: are they open, and I kind of carve out a
Speaker 1: little route that makes sense. And I mean, I just
Speaker 1: got back from a trip to Detroit last week where
Speaker 1: all I did for three days was hit the pizza scene.
Speaker 1: And I mean I hit a ton of pizza a
Speaker 1: short amount of time, and I couldn't have on it
Speaker 1: without intensive preparations. And Detroit it's like a hot scene
Speaker 1: for pizza, right, Not right. Only in the past two
Speaker 1: years has it really become obvious to everyone outside of
Speaker 1: Detroit that they've got their own pizza thing going. You know,
Speaker 1: if you asked anybody ten years ago, where do you
Speaker 1: get pizza in America, they say, well, it's New York
Speaker 1: and it's Chicago. And the people who knew a little
Speaker 1: bit better would say, oh, and knew he's in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: But now we're starting to see that all these little
Speaker 1: regional variations are at least as significant, and I gotta say,
Speaker 1: having just eaten them myself, Detroit definitely has it going on.
Speaker 1: I know you've been a judge at the World Pizza Cup,
Speaker 1: which I have to be honest, isn't something I was
Speaker 1: that familiar with. So can you tell our listeners a
Speaker 1: little about the World Cup and also how do you taste,
Speaker 1: test or judge a pizza? Wow, there are serious pizza competitions.
Speaker 1: I mean there's that Pizza World Cup is in Parma, Italy,
Speaker 1: and then there's one called the International Pizza Challenge, which
Speaker 1: is part of the International Pizza Expo in Law's Days
Speaker 1: every year. And judging is tough because, as you can
Speaker 1: probably imagine, the more slices you eat, the more they
Speaker 1: start to taste the same. So you really have to
Speaker 1: you really have to stay sharp. Like I always bring
Speaker 1: some palate cleansers, like an apple, I bring some lemon rind.
Speaker 1: I always try to have some bubbly water on hand, uh,
Speaker 1: coffee beans to to you know, clear my nasal passages.
Speaker 1: You know, just to give a whiff and kind of
Speaker 1: reset by all factory senses, and you know, you stay
Speaker 1: at that and you can have you can sample twenty
Speaker 1: or thirty slices of one day and still be able
Speaker 1: to tell the difference. You know, when you're when you're
Speaker 1: given a slice of pizza, you have to be given
Speaker 1: the whole slice, so you can choose your own adventure
Speaker 1: with how you bite. And I do. I always do
Speaker 1: a bite of the tip and the bite of the lift,
Speaker 1: so I'm getting a bite at the center of the
Speaker 1: pie and I'm also getting some of the edge crust.
Speaker 1: And after those two bites, you know, if I need
Speaker 1: to go back for more information and more more reconnaissance,
Speaker 1: I can choose my own and bite for where I
Speaker 1: go next. But bight of the tip and a bite
Speaker 1: of the lip, it's a bad way to start that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start using that phrase a lot. Say, well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this pizza box collection you have. As
Speaker 1: we mentioned, you're the world record holders. So what's your
Speaker 1: obsession with pizza boxes and and what are some of
Speaker 1: the smartest design ones you have in your collection? Well,
Speaker 1: when I started doing these tours in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: I was so interested in learning as much as I
Speaker 1: could about every angle of the pizza world, because it's subjectives.
Speaker 1: You like a different pizza than I like and neither
Speaker 1: of us are wrong or right, you know. So I figured, well,
Speaker 1: let me let me dive into some of these things
Speaker 1: that that are that are more objective. Let's let's look
Speaker 1: at pizza box part. And I was fascinated by the
Speaker 1: fact that we have different generic box designs in different
Speaker 1: parts of the country, in different parts of the world,
Speaker 1: draw their most mustachioed man a little differently than the other.
Speaker 1: So I just thought that that was it was really striking.
Speaker 1: And then I started getting more into the technology behind
Speaker 1: the box, and I found, you know, there's a great
Speaker 1: box in Italy that's lined with this reflective polyester fabric
Speaker 1: so that it keeps the pizza hotter on the inside
Speaker 1: of the box. It prevents the grease from soaking into
Speaker 1: the box itself, which would render it unrecyclable in some municipalities.
Speaker 1: So it's a cool box. And then there's one in
Speaker 1: India that is unbelievable. It's a breathable box. It has
Speaker 1: indirect ventilation that uses the fluting of a corrugated cardboard
Speaker 1: box set up to the advantage of getting rid of
Speaker 1: steam while maintaining heat and the inside of the box
Speaker 1: so cool, all right, Well before we play a little quiz.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure our listeners know about Slice
Speaker 1: out Hunger. Can you tell us a little bit about this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Slice Out Hunger is a nonprofit that I started right
Speaker 1: when I started the Pizza to our company, where we
Speaker 1: do fundraising for hunger relief organization all around the country
Speaker 1: and we do it through the pizza community. So we
Speaker 1: have an annual event that happens in New York where
Speaker 1: we have sixty pizzerias in one location, all serving slices
Speaker 1: for a buck a pop, and all the money that
Speaker 1: we raise gets matched by corporate sponsors and then donated
Speaker 1: to local hunger relief organizations. And we also have these
Speaker 1: nationwide campaigns where your local pizzeria might have a little
Speaker 1: sign and then we know that that Slice out Hunger
Speaker 1: this month with our you know whatever it is, our
Speaker 1: specialty pizza of the months. Or We're working on a
Speaker 1: project coming up for National Pizza Day on February nine,
Speaker 1: which will have a simultaneous delivery of pizza in every
Speaker 1: state in the United States to a local hunger relief organization, charity,
Speaker 1: after school program, senior center, food bank, food pantry. It's
Speaker 1: going to be crazy. Wow. Well, thank you for doing
Speaker 1: all of that incredible work. And as our way of
Speaker 1: saying thanks, we thought we would give you a really
Speaker 1: horrible quiz you mine. So what alright? So what's our
Speaker 1: quiz called? Today? Mango, We're gonna play a game called
Speaker 1: Our Cheesiest Quiz Ever. Okay, so we're gonna give Scott
Speaker 1: four cheesy statements and he's going to tell us whether
Speaker 1: they're true or faults. You ready, Scott? I yes, I'm ready.
Speaker 1: I got no joy? All right? Well, question number one.
Speaker 1: When Pizza Hut introduced the Insider Pizza and two thousand,
Speaker 1: it became the world's largest user of cheese. Each pie
Speaker 1: required about one pound of cheese. Truer Faults. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: At the time, Pizza Hut was using more than three
Speaker 1: million pounds of cheese each year and purchasing three of
Speaker 1: all the cheese produced in the US. All right, one
Speaker 1: for one. Number two, moose cheese cost about four hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty dollars per pound because milking a moose takes
Speaker 1: two hours and must be done in complete silence. Truer Faults.
Speaker 1: I love this, but I'm gonna say it's Oh, it's
Speaker 1: actually a true moose Yeah, they're notoriously moody and they'll
Speaker 1: go dry if they're even slightly deserved. So I didn't
Speaker 1: think that was true either when I saw this quiz
Speaker 1: when Mango brought it in this morning, So that one
Speaker 1: stumped me as well. All right, Question number three Frankie
Speaker 1: Easy Cheese Jenkins was a New York City graffiti artist
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies before he patented and sold his
Speaker 1: idea for putting cheese in an aerosol can. True or false.
Speaker 1: This is a tough one. I feel like I really
Speaker 1: wanted to be true and it could be, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say it. I'm gonna say it's too good to
Speaker 1: be true. It's false. Yeah, you're right. So. Originally known
Speaker 1: as snack Me, the product was invented in nineteen and
Speaker 1: a Nibisco lab. Alright, so Scott's two for three. This
Speaker 1: is for the big prize here. Number four Wisconsin. I
Speaker 1: started using provolone and mozzarella to d ice Rhodes as
Speaker 1: a way to keep cost of rock salt down. True
Speaker 1: or faults? WHOA? This is another one that feels like
Speaker 1: it's too good to be true. But all right, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with my heart on this one, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give you the answer that I wanted to be,
Speaker 1: even though it might not be correct, I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: that that is true. Yeah, absolutely right. So the cheese
Speaker 1: Brian is a cheaper and greener way to keep traffic
Speaker 1: safe and it comes with the added perk of making
Speaker 1: towns smell faintly like mozzarella. Alright, so, what's good one today? Yes,
Speaker 1: so Scott went impressive three or four, And in addition
Speaker 1: to our total admiration, Scott's going to get a copy
Speaker 1: of The Jetsons the Great Pizza Hunt Book, which is
Speaker 1: the only book about the Jetsons and pizza with a
Speaker 1: five star rating on good Reads. All right, well, Scott,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Gay, Welcome back to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1: Before the break, we talked about a couple of the
Speaker 1: pizza wars from the past few decades, first one with
Speaker 1: Chucky Cheese and show Biz and then the trash talking
Speaker 1: one between McDonald's and Pizza Hud. But now it's time
Speaker 1: to tackle a much more serious topic. We don't get
Speaker 1: all that serious very often here at Part Time Genius,
Speaker 1: but this is a fascinating case. Yeah, I know, we
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the Pizza Connection trial, right right,
Speaker 1: So let me just share a few of the basics
Speaker 1: and the numbers involved here. So this was March of
Speaker 1: nine seven, and there were seventeen people found guilty of
Speaker 1: building a massive international drug ring. It was all orchestrated
Speaker 1: by the mafia, and it was managed through this network
Speaker 1: of neighborhood pizzeria's all over the country. So it started
Speaker 1: with thirty five defendants, nineteen of them ended up standing trial,
Speaker 1: and the street value of the heroine they moved was
Speaker 1: worth an estimated one point six five billion dollars, which
Speaker 1: which is no small operation. No, it definitely wasn't. And
Speaker 1: it gets more complex from there. This network was insane.
Speaker 1: So there were two primary organized crime groups behind this.
Speaker 1: You have the Sicilian Mafia and then you have the
Speaker 1: Banano crime family in New York. And the arrest were
Speaker 1: not just made in New York and Italy, but in Switzerland, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit.
Speaker 1: I mean, It's crazy how wide this was. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I'm guessing in a case this complex isn't fast
Speaker 1: to prosecute and investigate, right, No, not at I mean
Speaker 1: there was a series of raids of pizzerias and homes
Speaker 1: all over the country. This was one morning in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, and this happened after four years of an
Speaker 1: FBI investigation. Then you have this seventeen months trial. Seventeen months,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the longest trials in American history,
Speaker 1: and it was at the end of that that these
Speaker 1: seventeen people were found guilty. I was on grand jury
Speaker 1: for seven months months. I remember that forever. Seventeen months
Speaker 1: just feels impossible. Yeah, I can't imagine it. But in
Speaker 1: this case, it's not just because it took forever. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, think about the jurors. They were scared for
Speaker 1: their lives. It actually ended up being an eleven member
Speaker 1: jury because one of the yours was excused after getting
Speaker 1: these threatening phone calls. Even the judge admitted to being
Speaker 1: worried for his safety. Yeah, and of course they were
Speaker 1: the only ones who had to fear for their lives.
Speaker 1: I remember reading that one of the suspects was found
Speaker 1: dead in the garbage bag before the trial ended, and
Speaker 1: another defendant was shot a few times and ended up
Speaker 1: pleading guilty from his hospital bed. Yeah, and they're two
Speaker 1: really interesting articles in Vice, or rather there was one
Speaker 1: on the Vice website and it was called how Mafia
Speaker 1: pizzeria drug fronts inspired one of the most complex criminal
Speaker 1: trials ever exactly by guy named John Currico, and another
Speaker 1: on their Munchie site called The Dark Side of Pie
Speaker 1: by Nick Rose, and I would recommend reading both of them.
Speaker 1: They were both very interesting. So it's just so wild
Speaker 1: that it was called the pizza connection and that it
Speaker 1: was largely managed through a huge network of pizzeria. So
Speaker 1: I want to tell our listeners why, well, you know.
Speaker 1: In the article I mentioned by Nick Rose, he interviews
Speaker 1: a few experts on this connection between organized crime and
Speaker 1: and pizza. And one of the experts he spoke to
Speaker 1: was a guy named Antonio Nick he so, and he's
Speaker 1: written several books on organized crime. And when he was
Speaker 1: asked why pizzeria's here's what he said. You can do
Speaker 1: this with any kind of restaurant, but at the time,
Speaker 1: it was just easier to buy a pizzeria and it
Speaker 1: was a great opportunity to make money and sell heroin
Speaker 1: out of the back door. He then goes on to
Speaker 1: say a pizzeria can be a good way to launder
Speaker 1: money at the end of the day, you can produce
Speaker 1: fake receipts because it's mostly a cash business. If you
Speaker 1: have two hundred clients in a given day, a bookkeeper
Speaker 1: can punch the receipts so that it says five customers.
Speaker 1: And the money that you don't make from selling pizza
Speaker 1: you can put in the cash by selling heroin or
Speaker 1: drugs and and pay taxes, which is so crazy. And
Speaker 1: I guess another advantage of pizza places is their whole
Speaker 1: delivery network, right, yeah, that's exactly right. And so they've
Speaker 1: got this distribution system that's already in place. You've got
Speaker 1: people out delivering pizzas all over the country, you know,
Speaker 1: so why not have them deliver heroin? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know why they shouldn't deliver heroin, So don't answer that.
Speaker 1: But that was their line of thinking. So eventually this
Speaker 1: pizza connection spanned all over the country. It even went
Speaker 1: up into Canada over time, and they built what was
Speaker 1: essentially a monopoly on heroin there. And as a side note,
Speaker 1: I noticed that the U. S. Attorney who was prosecuting
Speaker 1: the case is a name we'd eventually all know. That's right.
Speaker 1: It was none other than future New York City mayor
Speaker 1: and presidential candidate Rudolph Juliani, and he was known for
Speaker 1: being a tough prosecutor. Yeah, that's right. So this trial happens,
Speaker 1: and does it slow down the trafficking of heroin and
Speaker 1: the connection with Pizza, Well not really. I mean, just
Speaker 1: seven years later, famous original raised Pizza in the heart
Speaker 1: of Manhattan was busted for being this big organizing spot
Speaker 1: for another major drug ring. And these bus take an
Speaker 1: enormous amount of human power and time, and this one specifically,
Speaker 1: it took three years and more than two hundred agents
Speaker 1: involved in this thing. Yeah, it's crazy. And then fast
Speaker 1: forward two thousand eleven, John Porcello, known as Johnny Pizza,
Speaker 1: was arrested and what the FBI reports as the biggest
Speaker 1: mob raid in its history. But I mean, if I
Speaker 1: remember correctly, the actual pizzerias weren't discovered to be a
Speaker 1: part of the racketeering. No, but I mean it's still
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy was known as Johnny Pizza. There's
Speaker 1: some connection there. But by the way, I know, there's
Speaker 1: not much funny about these cases. But when the l
Speaker 1: A Times reported on this bust, I did enjoy this line.
Speaker 1: It said, um many had nicknames that just read like
Speaker 1: a Hollywood script. Lumpy Johnny, Pizza, the Bull, Baby, Fat Mush, Jello,
Speaker 1: and Meatball among them. At lumpian much. I know, I
Speaker 1: love those as well. It's all really strange. And I'd
Speaker 1: say while the show biz and McDonald's sties are pretty crazy,
Speaker 1: they aren't quite as heavy as all this pizza connection stuff.
Speaker 1: Now agreed, But things are about to get heavier because
Speaker 1: you you know what time it is? Yeah, backed off time?
Speaker 1: All right, I'll go first. So we were talking about
Speaker 1: the pizza wars in the first half of the show. Well,
Speaker 1: the founder of Dominoes, Tom Monahan, he may not have
Speaker 1: been in many all out wars, but he wasn't a
Speaker 1: ready to rough up some of his earliest customers if
Speaker 1: they tried to skip out on paying. As he said
Speaker 1: in his autobiography quote, if someone refused to pay a
Speaker 1: driver for an order, I didn't call the police. I
Speaker 1: just went and demanded the money. Usually the culprits were
Speaker 1: a bunch of college guys who decided to have a
Speaker 1: party at my expense, and I didn't hesitate to swing
Speaker 1: a punch to persuade them to pay up. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: So here's a quick one. Ever, wonder where tombstone pizza
Speaker 1: got its name. It's because it was first made in
Speaker 1: a bar that was across the street from the cemetery.
Speaker 1: You know, I actually have wondered that, but I never
Speaker 1: looked at up. So that's that's interesting to know. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not done. Quoting Domino's founder Tom on Ahan, he
Speaker 1: also said, from time to time, we'd have a rash
Speaker 1: of pizza thefts from parked vehicles while drivers were busy
Speaker 1: with customers. I'd hide in the back of the car,
Speaker 1: and the next time it went to that neighborhood, I'd
Speaker 1: wait for them to try it again. I'd carry a
Speaker 1: meat tenderizing mallet or a pop bottle as a persuader.
Speaker 1: And that approach, Yeah, always solved the problem. It's just
Speaker 1: the problems as simple as that. Okay. So on a
Speaker 1: slightly lesson say note, in the nineteen eighties, Chuck E
Speaker 1: Cheese decided to expand Australia, but instead decided to be
Speaker 1: called Charlie Cheese is pizza Playhouse. And that's because the
Speaker 1: word chuck is even more strongly associated with throwing up
Speaker 1: there than it is here. Wow. Okay, you know, actually
Speaker 1: I think I might try to get that term Charlie
Speaker 1: cheese to catch on for throwing somebody Charlie cheese everywhere. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, So did you know back in the nineteen
Speaker 1: sixties there was a U. S. Army intelligence unit that
Speaker 1: would use fake pizza deliveries to spy on people, namely
Speaker 1: reporters and politicians. That's weird. So I want to know
Speaker 1: who holds the Guinness World Record for the most expensive
Speaker 1: pizza commercially available. It's in my old home of New
Speaker 1: York City at Industry Kitchen. The pizza, which takes two
Speaker 1: days to make, includes black squid incto, stilton cheese from
Speaker 1: the UK, French truffles. Two types of caviare FOA graw
Speaker 1: and of course a twenty four carrot gold leaf. Those
Speaker 1: for two thousand dollars. All right, that's ridiculous. Of all
Speaker 1: the things we've talked about today, that is the most
Speaker 1: offensive by far. So that shouldn't be classified as a
Speaker 1: pizza at that price actually make You've got me so
Speaker 1: riled up, I'm going to have to give you the
Speaker 1: fact Doc trophy. Well, while U while will storms off,
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you for listening today and and
Speaker 1: if you want to share any favorite pizza fact, hit
Speaker 1: us up at part Time Genius at how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot com, where find us on Facebook or Twitter, or
Speaker 1: call seven Fact Hotline. It's one eight four four pt Genius.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening. Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works and
Speaker 1: wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do the
Speaker 1: important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil
Speaker 1: does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song
Speaker 1: and does the MIXI MIXI sound thing. Jerry Rowland does
Speaker 1: the exact producer thing. Gay Bluesier is our lead researcher,
Speaker 1: with support from the research Army including a Ston Thompson,
Speaker 1: Nolan Brown, and Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets
Speaker 1: the show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you
Speaker 1: like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if
Speaker 1: you really really like what you've heard, maybe you could
Speaker 1: leave a good review for us. Did we did? We
Speaker 1: forget Jason Jason who