WEBVTT - Does Pizza Bring Out the Worst In People? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.240 Guess what, mango? What's that? Will? All right? So I 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:04.200 have something I need to get off my chest. But 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.080 before I do, let me ask you this. Did you 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.080 grow up around show biz or Chucky Cheese? I think 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.160 we actually had both in Delaware. They were both pretty 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.480 popular for breathdays. Seriously, you had both? Alright, Well, we 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.680 we only had show Biz near us. And there's only 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.720 one thing I actually really remember from going to show biz. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.639 You know, it's like a five or six year old, 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.360 and it was the Rock a Fire Explosion Band. You 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.240 remember these guys? Yeah, of course, Mitzy Mazzarella, Fast Geronimo 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.720 and the Keys. How can you forget? Well, I certainly 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.560 won't ever forget them, nor will I ever forget where 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.120 I used to stand when I watched them perform. You know, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.520 Showbiz had this huge arcade room, but then you'd walk 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.600 around the corner into this dark room where this weird 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.840 animatronic band was playing. And I don't think I've ever 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:49.479 been more simultaneously terrified and yet completely mesmerized as I 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.760 was when I watched the Rock a Fire Explosion performing. Yeah, 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.400 I guess is you weren't alone in that feeling. Well, 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.560 so I'd stand in the doorway, and I'd watch them 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.320 because for some reason I couldn't get enough of these guys. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.480 And you know, as you mentioned, he had fat s Geronimo, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.760 the gorilla on the keys. He was always arguing with 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.560 the guy Rolf de Wolf, the you know, the weird 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.839 ventrilocust wolf. You remember this. And then there was Billy 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.240 Bob who fortunately he was the brown bear that would 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.560 usually keep the piece among the band. And then you 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.000 had what was his name? He was beach Bear who 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.800 always seemed high and he was on the guitar. And 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.600 then Duke LaRue, the want to be astronaut, this idiot 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.240 mud who always missed his cue on the drums. Of 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.039 course you mentioned Mitzi Mozzarella, the cheerleader who shared my 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.399 love of Michael Jackson songs. There's one more. Why am 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.440 I forgetting this embarrassing Who was the other one? Yeah? 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.240 But wasn't there like a drunk bird? All right? How 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.240 can they forget looney Bird, the alcoholic bird who hung 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.560 out in that barrel of gasohol? What a crew? I know, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.960 you look back on it and it's so weird, Like 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.520 when the world were they thinking with that band? I 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.800 don't know, but I loved them, and I was so 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.800 scared of them. And you know, I don't know what 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.760 it is about dark and weird things that draw us in. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.080 And the thing is, I had no idea there was 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.080 an even darker and weirder story playing out for Showbiz 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.320 at the time. This was near the end of the 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.440 show Biz Versus Chucky Cheese pizza war, which is such 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.280 a strange story, and it's just one of the stories 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.120 that's made us ask the question does pizza bring out 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.760 the worst in people? So that's what we're gonna be 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:36.280 talking about today. Let's get started. Yeah right, Hey, their 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.280 podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.200 and it's always I'm joined by my good friend men 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.360 guest Ticketer, and on the other side of that soundproof glasses, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.720 the man with the most angelic voice you've never heard, 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.920 our brilliant producer, Tristan McNeil. You ready to talk about 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.480 pizza Mango? I am, And I know we've been talking 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.680 about doing a pizza themed episode for a while now, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.359 and both of us are huge pizza lovers. I mean, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.880 who's who's not a pizza lover? Which is a good point, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.400 but it was wild as we started digging into the research, 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.520 we just found so many stories about the dark history 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.480 of pizza, like pizza wars and organized crime, so so 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.360 we decided to focus on those. We'll take a little break, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.320 at least from the from the Dark Side to talk 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.640 to one of our favorite pizza geniuses. Yeah, that's right. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.080 We'll be talking to Scott Weener, the founder of Scott's 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.040 Pizza Tours and and he's actually the world record holder 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.359 for the largest collection of pizza boxes. He's super interesting 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.880 and he knows more about pizza history than anyone I know. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.919 He's definitely a pizza genius. All right, Well, let's dive 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.160 into our topic. And we opened the show by talking 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.120 about show biz and the fact that I had no 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.960 idea that by walking into one of these I was 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.400 unknowingly participating in one of the greatest pizza wars of 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.480 all time and probably would have made it that much 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.520 more exciting. So why don't we start with that one. Yeah, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.480 that's a good one. I mean, it doesn't get that 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.120 much juicier than a battle between the creator of Pong 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.320 and the inventor of Whack a Mole. Now, it definitely doesn't. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:55.800 All right, Well, why don't you give us some of 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.560 the background on how both Chucky Cheese and show Biz 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.840 got started. So, Hockey Cheese was first, and in fact, 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.000 the first one opened in San Jose a couple of 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.120 years before either of us was born. This was way 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.400 back in nineteen seven and and it was actually started 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.440 by Nolan Bushnell, the founder of Atari. He's also the 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.760 creator of Pong. He came up with the idea for 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.800 the restaurant because he was spending so much of his 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.560 time selling Atari consoles like to arcades. He thought there 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.479 might be more money on the other side of the business, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:26.799 on the arcade end, so he dreamed up this idea 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.880 for what would become Chuck E Cheese Pizza Time Theater. Well, 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:32.480 and I thought it was interesting. I mean, I think 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.640 both the animatronic performers and the pizza were part of 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.480 this concept from from the very beginning. So why why 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.240 don't you talk about those for just a minute. Yeah, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.360 they were, and both were kind of brilliant. What's more 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.880 appetizing than an animatronic rat? Right? Well, I'm not sure 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.799 why he chose a rat exactly, but it is interesting 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.040 to hear is thinking on the animatronics. So he knew 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.560 parents probably wouldn't be excited to bring their families to 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.120 a typical arcade, so he was looking for a way 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.480 to bring in some entertainment and make to ask much 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.560 about the environment as it was the arcade games. Bushnell 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.040 did a really interesting interview with The Atlantic a few 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.919 years ago, and in it he says this, the reason 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.440 for doing the animals was not for the kids. It 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.080 was meant to be a head fake for the parents, right. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.240 And so then he also goes on to talk about 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.760 the pizza, and he explains there aren't too many ways 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.960 to screw it up. If the dough is good, the 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.320 cheese is good, and the sauce is good, the pizza 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.840 is good. I didn't have any preconceived idea that I 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.799 knew how to run a restaurant, but I knew simple 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.359 was better. But both seems smart. I mean, it makes sense, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.240 all right. So what happens next, Well, Bushnell feels he's 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.680 onto something and he wants to expand, so he starts 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.599 looking for investors and enter Bob Brock, who's chairman of 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.920 the Brock Hotel Corporation and a very successful franchise e 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.760 of holiday inns. So the two of them started working 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.520 together on a deal to rapidly expand the business, and 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.160 Bushnell's job was really to figure out how to improve 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.560 the animatronics so these things could be in restaurants all 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.360 over the country if the rollout went well. All right, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.120 So this is this is around nineteen seventy nine, is 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.840 that right? Yeah, And this is actually where the drama starts. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.680 It was right after these big discussions that Brock meets 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.320 this young inventor, Aaron Fector, who's also the inventor of 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.799 the Whack a Mole, And in weird timing, in Factor 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.080 has been working on this animatronic band he called the 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.400 wolf Pack five, and Brock felt they were much better 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.760 than what Bushnell was doing. All right, So that Brock 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.159 gets nervous about this and he's kind of uncertain, I guess, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.839 about the quality of the animatronics in in Chucky Cheese exactly, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.960 so much so that he actually decides to cancel his 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.320 deal with Bushnell, and then he strikes a deal with 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.279 Factor to make pretty much the same concept and in 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.359 the first Showbiz Pizza opened in Kansas City. That's such 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.880 a bold move, that's crazy, and you know, it's weird 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:43.960 that they just kept the pizza element as well, like 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.839 they didn't seem to try to make it that much different. Yeah, 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:48.920 but if you think back to the Bushnell quote about 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.920 why pizza earlier, it's a simple food. So it made 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.279 it easier for them to move quickly. And uh, I 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.840 guess that's where a rocket fire explosion was born, right 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.320 from the very beginning there. And you know, at that time, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.239 I had no idea was watching such a knockoff act. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.320 But if you look at them, they kind of just 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.040 look shady, right they do. And I'm guessing it didn't 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.520 take long for the lawsuits to come after that, right, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.400 So first Chuck E Cheese suit Showbiz, and then Showbiz 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.880 filed the countersuit and it ultimately settled in with Showbiz 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.960 agreeing to pay Chuck E Cheese a portion of their 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.760 profits for something like fourteen or fifteen years. Well, and 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:24.840 you know, this is an interesting time to be in 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.080 this business because you know, we talked about this in 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.440 our Weird Summer Travel Guide episode. This was around the 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.840 time that the video game market experienced a pretty big crash, 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.480 so it was obviously not good for either of these 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.360 chains and not at all, and in fact, it hit 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.840 Chuck E Cheese so hard that Bushnell eventually had to 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.040 file for bankruptcy. And you know, after he was forced 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.640 out of the company, Chuck E Cheese was acquired by Chauviz. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.720 So I guess ultimately Mr whack a Mole won the 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.320 war here. Yes, so it's fair to say he won 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.440 the battle. But in the end they both lost the war. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.120 And how is that? Well, Chauviz wasn't exactly thriving, and 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.840 in their efforts to improve the company for Foreman's factor 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.640 lost out and he left with the Rock Fire Band, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.440 and so that was the last we saw them in 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:10.600 show biz. Then the whole company rebranded as c EC Entertainment. Well, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.840 and now I see there are more than five hundred 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.640 Chucky Cheese locations around the country. Yeah, it's still a 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.400 big deal, It definitely is. Well that that's such a 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.240 weird but interesting story. All right, Well, let's talk about 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.720 another battle where I found some of the trash talking 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.920 pretty funny. That was the result of McDonald's attempt to 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.720 enter the pizza market, something I didn't really remember. And 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.680 this was back in the late eighties. Yeah, that's a 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.000 good one. So why don't you take this one all right, Well, 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.040 just a little bit of background on this one. And 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.200 by the way, there's a great mental flaw story on 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.600 this from Jake Rosen, one of our favorite writers there. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.920 So let's go back to the early nineteen eighties. McDonald's 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.200 is an absolute giant, and as Jake pointed out, they 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.559 owned nearly forty of what was then a forty eight 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.480 billion dollar burger market, so incredible. Well, and they were 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.480 looking for ways to keep growing from there, and because 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.360 they were looking to break into the dinner game and 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.120 a much big your way, and the idea of taking 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.520 over a meal time was not foreign to them. And 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.199 they've done this in the early seventies when they introduced 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.559 the egg McMuffin. And you know, despite being mocked by critics, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.960 that McMuffin was a huge success. Well, their customers would 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.280 have disagreed. Their customers were really digging them. Well, I mean, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.160 I guess so you're saying they had their eyes on 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.280 dinner though, Yeah, you know, they'd conquered lunch and breakfast, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.840 and next was figuring out how to get people into 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.480 their locations at night, because for one reason or another, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.200 people saw burgers and their other offerings as more of 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.880 a lunch thing, and that's when they started looking at 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.480 this rapidly growing pizza market, and so you look at 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.000 the late nineteen eighties, they decided it was time to 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.600 make a move. Well, it is important to note that, 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.720 unlike the McMuffin introduction, that this was not going to 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.360 be an easy transition when it came to the layout 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.760 of their stores and their kitchens specifically, and this was 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.480 honestly something I had not really thought about. So first 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.640 they had to develop this super quick cook oven and 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.680 it wasn't exactly small, and so you know, in order 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.440 to include the oven and other equipment related to it, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.880 they had to remodel their restaurants. And that wasn't actually 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.360 the only space problem against something I had not really 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.800 thought much about until doing their research here, it was 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.720 the windows and their drive through. So think about trying 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.920 to fit a full pizza through one of those tiny windows. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.160 So in order to serve the pizza, they'd have to 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.000 go back and expand all of them. But but this 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.240 didn't stop them from trying, oh not at all, not 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:27.760 at all. I mean, it might have slowed down the 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.720 rate at which they tried to do some of their 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.480 early testing, but in they began testing in a couple 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.400 dozen locations in Indiana and Kentucky, and uh, this is 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.520 where the trash talking started, because I really want to 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.080 get to the trash. All right, we'll get to the 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.200 trash talking. So enter Pizza Hut. So you know, they 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.520 had to be at least a little bit nervous. I mean, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.480 they were the giant in the pizza business, but nobody 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.199 was bigger than McDonald's, so this was definitely a threat 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.520 and they had to be ready with some good trash talking. Well, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.360 if you look back at one of the regional ads, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.680 they warned Powle, don't make a mixtak to get there, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.640 really warning people about that. And then they started talking 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:10.000 about their competitions. Mick frozen dough. That's that's such a 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.319 low blow. I kind of like, how whenever you want 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.000 to make fun of McDonald's, the go to is just 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.319 to add Mick in front of anything exactly. That's why 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.800 it's so ridiculous. I mean I I actually, for some 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.640 reason started thinking about a brainstorming session at the Pizza 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.760 Hut headquarters where they were just like, al right, what 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.000 should we put Mick in front of to show those 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.160 guys who's boss would be like the one genius. He 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.120 just rattles off like, hey, don't make a mistake by 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.040 eating a mc frozen pizza because it's the mic worst. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.440 And they were all like, that's brilliant. You don't mess 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.040 with the hot that's why they hand the big box. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:43.960 You can tell. I thought about this a little little 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.280 too much. So so was it the trash talking that 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.960 ultimately can the pizza for them? Well, I doubt that 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.000 had that much to do with it, despite how brilliant 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.960 those mick lines were. But but I mean, it's not 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.160 like McDonald's isn't used to some portion of the population 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.880 mocking their food. And ultimately there were bigger factors beyond 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.960 the restructuring of the restaurants that I mentioned earlier. So 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:07.679 I think about prep time. I mean, this was a 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.959 big factor. Imagine pulling up to a window and ordering 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.079 a couple of burgers for one person and pizza for another. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.439 So they've got the quick burger thing down to a science. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.320 I mean, those suckers are ready in a minute, and 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.360 they're waiting for you at the window right as you 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.240 pull up. But a pizza, even if it's quick, even 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.920 if it only takes five minutes. I mean that feels 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.840 like an eternity for people who are used to an 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.680 almost instant drive through service. You know. Plus the rest 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.720 of their order is just sitting there getting cold as 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.760 they're waiting on the pizza. Yeah, you can see why 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.240 that would be a problem. Well, and the other issue 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.600 was price. I mean it's it's not like pizzas are 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.920 expensive and the broader food market, but when customers are 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.719 used to spending a buck or two Parode and m 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:51.400 McDonald's and eight item feels expensive. The psychology of this, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.160 you know, the pricing of things. It's weird, but it's interesting. Yeah, 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.679 So how did all play out? Well, by the early 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.959 nineteen nineties, pizzas were being served in I think about 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.360 a third of their locations, but it just wasn't working, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.040 and so they disappeared as quickly as they came. I 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.880 mean you might say they were Mick history. I've been 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.880 practicing working on. Yeah, I think I need a little 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.160 break after that joke. So why don't we get our 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:32.160 pizza genius on the line. All right, Well, Mago, I 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.320 know we've been talking about pizza wars, and later on 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.200 in the episode, it's gonna get even a little bit darker. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.319 So I thought we should take a break and talk 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.080 about some of the fun pizza stuff. We're both huge 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.800 pizza fans, and there's obviously plenty of reasons to celebrate pizza. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.559 In fact, I think we'll do another episode in the 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.400 not too distant future about all the fun facts about pizza. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.200 But today we've got Scott Wiener on the program. Scott's 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.880 an insane pizza connoisseur. He's the owner of Scott's Pizza Tours. 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.200 He also consults on pizza part allers, writes a column 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.000 for Pizza Today magazine, Sounds Qualified all the pizza. He 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.640 judges international pizza competition and holds the Guinness Book record 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.520 for the largest collection of pizza boxes. So, Scott, welcome 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.640 to Part Time Genius. Thanks so much for having me. Hey, 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.560 so so, one of the first things I heard about 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.080 you is that you loved pizza so much you decided 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.200 to turn that into a career. How do you go 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.520 about making pizza your career? And were people skeptical when 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.080 you told them that's what you were doing. You know, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.640 I had no idea what it was going to be 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.120 like in the beginning. I just thought Hey, wouldn't be 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.600 great if I could eat pizza for a living. You know, 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:39.280 I don't know what is it, but I you know, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.520 I was like, well, I can't do a book. Nobody 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.400 knows who the heck I am, and I don't know much, 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.200 and I can't write a blog because actually at the time, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.000 I had no internet where I lived. And I figured, well, 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.680 what if we did something live action? And there's nothing 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.600 better than live action doing a tour. So I figured, Oh, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.160 take people around the cool pizzaree is, show them the ovens, 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.120 show them the kitch, and we'll eat pizza. I'll explain 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.240 what's going on in the kitchen and it'll be like 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.840 a live action food TV show. And that was that. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.120 Oh that's awesome. I remember you telling us you kind 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.320 of have a strict count of how many pizza slices 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.320 you allow yourself every week because you're such a pizza fanatic. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.440 So what do you limit yourself to? So my limit 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.920 is fifteen slices per week. It begins Monday morning Slobo 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.760 one am, and uh and Sunday night. And you know what, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.840 it's really hard to keep to that low of a 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.800 limit because I'm exposed to somewhere between four and ten. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.560 Pizza three is every day, and so you have to 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.360 say to eight, pizza three is a day. No, I 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.000 can't eat the slice right now. It's really tough. That's 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.680 pretty incredible, and you never get sick of it. I 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.600 haven't gotten sick of it yet. But I'm always nervous 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.160 about it. And that's why I have this limit. It's 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.680 just so I don't lose that edge. I want to 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.400 stay interested in pizza. And I'm worried that what if 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.960 I go overboard one week and you know when you're 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.840 a kid and you ate too many jelly beans and 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.200 then he's like candy jelly beans anymore. I don't want 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:08.080 to live that life. That's pretty great. So I just 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.640 moved to Atlanta, and it's not like New York where 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.600 you can get slices on every block, and so I 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.840 was wondering, how do you plan the perfect pizza crawl 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.960 in the city you don't know. So if I'm planning 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.200 a pizza crawl in the city I haven't been to before, 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.720 I always start by putting up a post on Twitter 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.040 on Facebook, Hey, anybody have ideas for pizzeria's And then 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.560 I sort of I called together a lift based on 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.560 the most suggestions. I get a cross reference that with 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.760 recommendations people have given me on my pizza tours, which 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.400 of course I keep a long spreadsheet about that, and 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.440 you know, I kind of narrow it down to what 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.640 days is a week, or these pizzeria's open, what times 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.960 are they open, and I kind of carve out a 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.200 little route that makes sense. And I mean, I just 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.920 got back from a trip to Detroit last week where 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.800 all I did for three days was hit the pizza scene. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.720 And I mean I hit a ton of pizza a 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.200 short amount of time, and I couldn't have on it 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.200 without intensive preparations. And Detroit it's like a hot scene 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.680 for pizza, right, Not right. Only in the past two 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.119 years has it really become obvious to everyone outside of 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.000 Detroit that they've got their own pizza thing going. You know, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.199 if you asked anybody ten years ago, where do you 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.600 get pizza in America, they say, well, it's New York 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.800 and it's Chicago. And the people who knew a little 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.160 bit better would say, oh, and knew he's in Connecticut. 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.440 But now we're starting to see that all these little 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.760 regional variations are at least as significant, and I gotta say, 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.960 having just eaten them myself, Detroit definitely has it going on. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.560 I know you've been a judge at the World Pizza Cup, 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.920 which I have to be honest, isn't something I was 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.080 that familiar with. So can you tell our listeners a 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.040 little about the World Cup and also how do you taste, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:51.000 test or judge a pizza? Wow, there are serious pizza competitions. 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.760 I mean there's that Pizza World Cup is in Parma, Italy, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.840 and then there's one called the International Pizza Challenge, which 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.480 is part of the International Pizza Expo in Law's Days 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.280 every year. And judging is tough because, as you can 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.960 probably imagine, the more slices you eat, the more they 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.679 start to taste the same. So you really have to 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.720 you really have to stay sharp. Like I always bring 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.560 some palate cleansers, like an apple, I bring some lemon rind. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.440 I always try to have some bubbly water on hand, uh, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.800 coffee beans to to you know, clear my nasal passages. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.679 You know, just to give a whiff and kind of 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.040 reset by all factory senses, and you know, you stay 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.399 at that and you can have you can sample twenty 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.000 or thirty slices of one day and still be able 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:36.720 to tell the difference. You know, when you're when you're 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.600 given a slice of pizza, you have to be given 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.080 the whole slice, so you can choose your own adventure 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.600 with how you bite. And I do. I always do 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.000 a bite of the tip and the bite of the lift, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.520 so I'm getting a bite at the center of the 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.840 pie and I'm also getting some of the edge crust. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.520 And after those two bites, you know, if I need 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.280 to go back for more information and more more reconnaissance, 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.439 I can choose my own and bite for where I 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.520 go next. But bight of the tip and a bite 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.520 of the lip, it's a bad way to start that. 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.679 I'm gonna start using that phrase a lot. Say, well, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.120 let's talk about this pizza box collection you have. As 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.359 we mentioned, you're the world record holders. So what's your 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.000 obsession with pizza boxes and and what are some of 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.880 the smartest design ones you have in your collection? Well, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.240