WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Murder of Bob Chappell 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.040 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.840 by Equal Pay for Cheop cabras. Instead, it's brought to 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.760 you by us or maybe you you've heard me read 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.880 ads for brands before like Bombas Socks, Zola dot Com 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.720 and Breakout Games, all amazing companies that I truly believe in. 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.040 These ads are great because they keep the show free 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.680 for you and introduce listeners to new products you'll love. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.200 It's a win for everyone, and I'm happy to have 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.400 the help and expertise of mid Role Media to ensure 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.880 that the show continues to have great advertisers. If you're 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.159 interested in advertising with our show, go to mid Role 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.000 dot com, slash sideways and click contact to let the 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.720 folks at mid Role know. They also represent great shows 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.159 like Generation Why and My Favorite Murders so you can 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.320 reach an array of engaged listeners. That's mid Role, M I, 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.120 D R O l L dot com slash sideways. You 0:00:49.159 --> 0:01:11.560 know how to spell sideways? Who are well? Hi there, 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.880 Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm your host, Joe, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.440 joined as always by Steve and your other host Devin. Yeah, 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.680 Joe is not the only host. Yeah, he's the host 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:29.440 this week I oh sorry. Yeah, okay, well I guess 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:30.840 you know what's really going on in the back of 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:37.520 my head. Uh, he's been reading about this story too long. Yeah, okay, 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:39.440 well here we go. Yeah, I totally want to see 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.759 the podcast all for me. Yeah. This week we're gonna 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.240 talk about a fun disappearance that a lot of people 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.200 think was a murder. And that's a guy in Australian 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.560 named Bob Chappell. His name is spelled Chappelle, but it's 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:58.480 pronounced Chapel. Apparently. He disappeared January nine in West Hobart, Australia, 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.000 which is in tess India, which, if you don't know, 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.280 is an island off the south coast of the Australian mainland. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.920 It's part of Australia. And uh. The story was suggested 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.000 by our listeners Lucil and Renee, who no doubt or 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.400 Tasmanian themselves, because the story, as it turns out, as 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.800 a really big deal in Tasmania and actually Australia in general, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.480 even though a lot of Americans maybe have not heard 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.280 of it. But it's big down there, is it is ongoing. Yeah, 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:28.799 now you're gonna know all about this story. America Europe, Pakistan, 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.640 you name it. So Bob Chapel when he went missing 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:34.880 in two thousand nine, Bob was living with a woman 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.040 named Sue Neil Fraser, who was now in prison for murder. Uh. 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.200 And Bob and Sue had been together about eighteen years 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.000 when Bob disappeared, and according to some people, will the 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.280 the fun had gone out of the relationship. Yeah, it 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.920 does tend to happen to a lot of relationships. It 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.080 does happen, yes, So, but that of course made her 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.680 kind of a candidate is a suspect for murder, you know, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.239 typically know, it's not unusual, right uh like, But like said, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.720 a ton of people in Tasmania thinks she's innocent and 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.680 that her conviction for Bob's murder was a huge miscarriage 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.640 of justice. And there's a big campaign going on to 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.079 find information to exonerate Sue. The kinds of court appeals 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.919 one of what's just happened as a matter of fact. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.280 Uh yeah, And you probably if you go out look, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.680 you'll find you'll see that billboard that's got that picture 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.200 of Sue and it says reward forty dollars for information. Yeah, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.959 now proving the innocence of Souon Neil Neil Fraser and uh, yeah, anyway, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.560 we'll talk about how the whole appeal thing played out here, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.560 but let me give you a little more background for so, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.960 this kind of kind of violates our five year old 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.960 but well over five years. But you know, I picked 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.280 the story, and I and everything, and then I and 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.160 then after I go out to do my research, I 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.720 suddenly realized, Oh, all this new stuff happening, And whenever 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.200 you do a search, all these new links pop up. Yeah, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.880 and technically he's over the limit, but luckily no, nothing 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.840 conclusive came about, which is why we're still talking about Yeah. Uh, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.680 and so who knows. I mean, maybe she's still in 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.960 prison now, but who knows, maybe spring in one of 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.880 these days, or she'll finish your sentences and just get 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.040 out of prison. With our luck, like two days before 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:12.960 we drop this conclusively, somebody will confess. Uh. Well, anyway, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.840 back to the back to the beginning here, Bob and 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.520 Sue were both divorced with kids. I think he had three, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.800 she had too, and I think the kids were grown 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.039 by the time this happened. And I believe Bob and 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.520 Sue had been a thank for about eighteen years when 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.760 Bob finally shuffled off the stage. And I'm putting it 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.119 that way because actually nobody really knows what happened to Bob. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.040 Now you just vanished. Everybody assumes he's dead, which includes 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.960 the police, the courts, his family, friends. Yeah, but maybe not. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.640 But nobody was ever found. Um, so there's actually not 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.200 on a percent rocks actually that very big void in 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.880 evidence for what the heck happened to him. Well, yeah, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.560 interestingly enough, nobody was found. No murder weapon was found. Yeah, 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.440 I know, And so it's interesting that police managed to 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.279 get a conviction out of this out of this movie. Yeah, 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.400 but in two thousand eight, that just months before this happened. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.400 Soon and Bob bought themselves a nice big boat, a 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.080 fifty three ft catch called the Four Winds, which actually 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.400 I've seen photos of it, just really nice. What what's 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.839 the catch catches A is like it's a two masted sailboat, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.400 but it's it's the tall mast is in front and 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.320 the short mast is in the rear of the boat, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.400 the stern. That's a catch. And there's also the y'all 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.360 just a similar able to y'all that the aftmatches stepped 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.920 a little further back and it's smaller, so there's a difference. Yeah, okay. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.960 Unfortunately everybody in podcast Land couldn't see Joe's defining hand es. 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.839 He was also looking very concerned at me, like, I'm concerned. 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:39.960 You don't understand this already? Do you not know what 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:41.920 this is? I mean, you're about to buy a boat 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.440 a right, And actually, okay, for the sailing purists out there, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.960 that the station between the catch and y'all is the y'all. 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.120 The mast is stepped behind the steering station and the 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.400 catch is stepped in front of the steering station. You're 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.640 just showing off now, okay, alright, that's that's how you 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.039 tell the difference between the two. Okay. But they bought 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.839 it in Queensland, which is on the northeast coast of Australia, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.400 quite a way from Tasmania, and they had ideas for 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.400 the boat about retiring doing a lot of sailing. They 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.120 were planning maybe a dream trip of sailing around Australia 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.040 and about the last fate intervened they never took that trip. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.440 When they were in Queensland after they bought the boat, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.440 they hired two crew members to help them sail to 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.080 Hobart and their names were Peter Stevenson and David Cassan, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.760 And presumably that's because they were unfamiliar with the boat, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.320 and these guys they had some sailing experience. I know, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.120 Sue at least had owned a fairly decent sized sailboat previously, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.280 and I think, you know, and so presumably and that 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.320 was while they were together, so presumably he picked up 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.400 a lot of experience sailing on that. And so I'm 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.360 guessing it was kind of a you know better and 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.440 this is a bit of a training run for us. Yeah, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.560 well probably, yeah. I don't know how big the previous 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.360 but it was obviously a fifty foot catches is kind 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.559 of bigger and harder to handle than a little twenty 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.120 six foot sloop or something like that. And it's been 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.599 a couple of years, you know. Or maybe maybe they 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.560 just wanted a couple of extra hands so they could 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.440 actually catch some sleep. Also, pod it could be that 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.760 would definitely make for some wider work. Yeah, But they 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.840 hired these two guys, and then unfortunately Bob had us 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.120 a few medical issues and wind up checking into the 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.600 hospital for a little bit, and he decided to fly 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.880 back to Hobart, while soon the crew sailed the boat back. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.080 And as for Hobart that it is on the southeast 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.080 coast of Tasman, you know what, on what's called the 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.000 River Derwent. And I'm no doubt mispronouncing that. Probably maybe 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.280 it's maybe that Australians called it the Darwin or something 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.480 like that or the door Winner. I don't know. Uh, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.080 somebody send me an email. Yeah, exactly, UHO. And where 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.040 Hobart is, it's on the River Derwood, but it's kind 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.160 of more of a big inlet there. It's huge. It's 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.960 wide near the sea where they had an anchor's off 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.600 battery point in the Hobart in the river on the 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.320 west side of the river. And of course when they 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:49.800 bought the boat and had a few issues, which is 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.400 not a surprise boats usually do, and it was a 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.840 used boat. Boats are holes in the water that you 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.400 throw money in. Oh hell yeah, And it could have 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.200 been one of the things that placed a little rain 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.520 on their relationship. They do that. And I know, Steve, 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.640 you're going to like a little project right now, let's 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.440 place a little strain on your It is a little project, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:15.840 but it just turned into a big project. The dots. Ye, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:22.160 just thrown the old one and start over, just sell 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.200 it and buy something. Yeah. But the boat had had 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.760 some work done before leaving Queensland and uh. And then 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.480 of course after getting on homeboard, it needed some more 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.079 work done. And of course in the last day that 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.520 he was seeing Bob Chapel was on the four winds 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.040 working on the boat, or at least that's what he 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.440 said to Sue. Well, and of course if it needed work, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.599 then it would make sense that you would just go 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.480 and work on the boat. Yeah, if you got the 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.839 time and you want to retire on it. Yeah, I 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.319 don't take around about it. Yeah. And and besides which 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:49.679 this is your dream boat. You want to get the 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.000 thing all ship shape no pun intended, and have it 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.800 all ready to go. And so you gotta get that 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.080 stuff taken care of. And so Bob was working away 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.160 and on the morning of twenty six January, Sue visited Bob, 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.599 and the yacht left late morning to go and have 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.839 lunch with a friend. Turns out the friend was his 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:11.360 daughter and sound chews. Yeah, Bob's daughter Caroline and Sanchez. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.360 I think she goes away an uh and sorry, Sue 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.319 was going to have lunch with her. Yeah, Sue what 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.120 to have lunch with her, and they met at the 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.000 Royal Yacht Club, which is actually right where it was anchored. Anyway, 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.640 it was anchored off shore. I assume they didn't have 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.240 a slip at the Royal Yacht Club, even though I 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.600 think they were members and their privileges. But it looks 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:28.280 like it's all full. If you look at the arials, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.520 it's all full, and there's literally dozens of yachts anchored 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.280 offshore from it. So I assume there's a waiting list 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.600 to get into the Royal Yacht Club. That's why they 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.719 had their boat moored out way out in the river, yeah, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.240 instead of you know, I'm a slip. Yeah. During but 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.679 during this lunch, and Sanchez took a photo which was 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.520 later used as evidence against Sue. We'll hear about that later. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.360 But then later on about mid afternoon, she returned to 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.320 the boat, uh and she told police that she had 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.680 an argument with Bob, and Bob told her he wanted 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.520 to stay on the yacht overnight, so she took the 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.679 dinghy and their dinghy, by the way, it was an 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.600 inflatable craft kind of like his Zodiac, big rubber boat. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.560 Big rubber boat. It's kind of the pontoons. Just got 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.360 the flat transome in the back of the headache and 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.920 had an outboard on it. So she takes the dinghy 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.200 back to shore, which left Bob stranded on the odd 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.320 Over nine. And this was the last time that Sue 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:22.280 saw Bob at least potentially, Yeah, potentially maybe uh. And 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.439 she was questioned later and told police about leaving him 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.599 stranded on the yacht, and she said she thought it 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.400 was safe to ly Bob on the yacht without the 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.960 dinghy because she said he was not actually good at 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.640 getting in and out of it on his own, and 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.240 apparently she was worried he might screw up and fall 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.480 into the water and drown. I don't know, Well, was 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.040 that because he was just kind of clumsy at it, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.240 or is it because of like a medical issue, because 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.599 he'd had the medical issues that prevented him from, you know, 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.560 coming from with the boat home. So yeah, I had 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.880 never I had never heard it said exactly why it 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.200 was she was concerned about his abilities for getting out, wondered, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.000 as I did all the reading and couldn't figure it out. 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.559 Presumably because they had been married eighteen years and she 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.000 knew that rods are, that they had been together for 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.320 eighteen years, and that she kind of thought, well, he's 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:11.520 kind of an idiot, and I hate him, I know, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.319 I despised him. He was just incompetence. She's just so everything. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.520 But uh, and of course some people contradicted that. There 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.360 were other people who said, no, we saw him get 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.040 in and out of it all the time off the goat, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:23.679 and he had no problem at all doing it. It 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.679 was only when Sue was around drugging him that crazy. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.040 When got back to shore from her visit with Bob 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:33.920 on the boat, she tied the dingy to a ladder 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.240 at the Royal Yacht Club. She said she tied her 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.280 usual away with three knots. I don't know what those 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.400 three knots were, but she said that it had never 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.440 come undone before, so of course it came un done naturally. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:49.400 Of course, of course, Yeah, yes, it comes undone overnight 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.040 or somebody untied it. Uh. The evidence indicates actually that 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.280 somebody did untied because the painter that you know, sailors 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.080 are they gonna call everything a different name. So that's 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.599 like with seven hundred names for ice. Yeah, I know. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.080 In three thousand thirty seven for snow. Yes, But anyway, 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.559 so the painter, which is a rope that's tied to 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:11.960 the front of the boat, he tied to the dock 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.439 with and it was found inside the dinghy and not 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.560 trailing in the water as it would have benefited at 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.959 the nicam. And then so somebody undid those knots and 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.920 tossed it in the boat and tossed the rope in 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.360 the boat sometime overnight, someone who was bad at staging things, 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.680 apparently at five forty am the next morning, that would 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.800 be January, an unnamed person I'd never I'm sure if 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.400 i'd gone through right three articles I could have found 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.840 this guy's name. I don't know that it matters, not really. 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.000 But somebody found the dinghy bobbing against the rocks untied. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.520 He secured it and then headed out into the water 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.560 and a boat with somebody else who also I don't 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.360 have his name, and they happened to pass nearby the 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.320 four Winds, and they noticed that it was very low 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.360 in the water. Convenient. Can I ask a question, yea, 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.600 this is probably stupid question, but do the dinghy's usually 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.199 have the name of the ship that they're so the 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.280 boat they're associated with them. You know, it depends on 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.880 how much money and how just how how you know, 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:09.800 and how big the boat is and everything like that. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.560 So the dinghy is big enough, like you know, obviously, 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.040 the bigger the yacht, the bigger the dinghy, you know, right, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:16.920 And that is one gets to a certain point. Wait 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.839 are you talking about the owner or the thing that 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.199 floats to the water and wait, yeah, good point. But 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.960 but yeah, typically, I mean the larger boats, a lot 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.240 of them do have they're labeled one way or another. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.679 But this one was labeled. No. I've seen pictures of 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.400 this one, and I had not seen typically, I don't 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.400 think people paint the boat name on an inflatable raft anyway, well, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.080 you know, sharpie or something, just so you know who's Yeah, 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.719 I'm sorry, I just I just think there's probably a 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.480 lot of dinghies on you know. That's a good point. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:49.959 You would expect everybody just know which one is there, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.640 you know, And but I might not have Sharpie on it. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.199 but this one, I've seen a few pictures of it. 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.720 I saw no signs of any any labeling whatsoever other 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.439 than a brand name that was on the side of it. 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.000 So they just happened to pass by the Four Winds. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.200 But yeah, they just these guys happened to pass by 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.640 the Four Winds. They noticed it's really low in the water, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.040 alarmingly low, so they stopped, climbed the board. Noticed there 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:14.319 was still a little bit of blood and a few 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.319 things like a you know, bloody knife, a few things 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.800 like that laying around. So they called the police. Uh. 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.920 The police phoned Sue at Bob and sus house at 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.560 seven eleven am on January that told her they've gotten 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.640 report that their boat was sinking. So Sue gets to 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.520 the car and heads down to the Royal Yacht Club. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.040 And when she shows up and and police showed up 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.520 and boarded the Four Winds, they noticed, for some clue, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.080 blood on the steps leading down into the salon, a 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.400 knife on the floor of the wheelhouse, a flashlight with 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.320 blood on it. But no Bob Bob was gone. Of course, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.360 the boat was still low in the water and sinking 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.720 because it turns out that a pipe to the forward 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.720 head had been cut. It was a plastic pipe, so 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.800 you know, you know, nautical toilet. Sorry, they don't don't 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.080 use good water to flush the toilet. They just in 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.160 water from outside to flush the toilet. And that's really 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.000 so somebody cut that pipe which let water into the boat. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.560 So it's an intake line that is now bleeding into 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.600 the interior of the boat. Yeah. And also it turns 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.960 out there was a sea cock that was underneath the 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:15.800 floor ring in the forward part of the boat, I 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.880 should say the bow. It had been opened also. And 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.200 also sea cock is just a it's like a get 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.920 of the plug in your bathtub basically, it's that. Yeah. Sorry, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.400 we're just using a lot of body terms, and I 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.920 feel like our listeners some of them no body terms, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.760 but very good point. Now seacock is there, and normally 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.240 would seemed like kind of a dangerous thing to have, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.840 but when you haul the boat out of the water 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.600 and you've got water in the villages, it's nice to 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.400 be able to open something up in yeah, really heavy. Yeah, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.560 and pulling a boat out of the water full of 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.600 water will actually make it tear itself apart. It's not 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.360 meant to sustain the water that it can be kind 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.600 of hard on things. Yeah. Oh, and also, last of all, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.280 the builage pump had been shut up. Yeah, and so well, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.320 so the one means to pump the water back out 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.400 has now been defaulted. Yeah, so somebody. So, somebody obviously 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.840 had sabotaged the boat, right looks that way to me anyway. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.200 At some point the first time Sue was on the 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:13.640 boat with the police. I don't know if she was 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.520 with them the first time they boardered it or maybe 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.520 later in the day, but she knows some rub barks 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.920 on the wooden surrounds of the main hatch of the 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.560 yacht and that main hatches to the entrance to the 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:28.120 lower deck. Yeah, yeah, and just exactly, that's the one 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:29.960 that's kind of half door half hatch, you know, the 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:31.960 kind of talking about when there's a little door on 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.800 the front, then there's a hatch on top that slides 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.800 back so you don't bang your head. This is like 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.480 what we're talking about in the Jim Gray episode. Yeah, exactly. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.360 Uh So she noticed some some rub barks on that 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.080 which were kind of inconspicuous. She said, they had not 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.960 been there before, and the police noticed there were also 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.400 fibers in the marks that appeared to be from a rope. 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.520 And also they I don't know if they noticed this 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.040 because there was an empty bracket or a suit pointed 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.480 it out, but the most fire extinguisher was missing as well, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.680 and it was apparently a large, very large, heavy model 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.760 fire extinguisher. It was gone. Okay, yeah, and so also 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.359 checking for evidence around and stuff. The police looked at 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.960 the dinghy. They checked it with loomin All. You know, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.760 lumin all, you spray that on it, and blood activates it, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.120 makes it glow under a black light, and of course 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.120 just has a lot of defenders. And suit pointed out 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.520 other things besides blood can activate loomin all and make 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.120 it glow. So but but apparently they sprayed some lumin 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.600 All on the bottom of the dinghy, and well a 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.720 lot of it glowed like a yeah kind of um 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.680 so sorry, maybe I'm confused. The two guys unnamed find 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.800 the dinghy, they get in the dinghy, No, it's it 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.800 just said that the guy that found it secured it. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.560 And I don't know if that means he just tied 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.920 it to something or that means he drug for some reason. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.240 I thought they hopped in it. I think he just 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.320 saw it secured it. And then they went out on 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.920 his boat and then they board the four Winds and 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.080 apparently don't disrupt the crime scene. Well, and that's another thing. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.080 That's as far as I know, they did board it. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.240 At least in one account I've heard they boarded it, 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.280 and then one of those was actually a court accounts, 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.760 so probably accurate. But then in other accounts I've heard 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.560 that they actually just looked and they yelled and nobody 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.840 would nobody seemed to be home, and then they called police, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.600 maybe from a cell phone in their own in the boat. 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.320 So maybe they didn't actually board it. Maybe they just 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.399 pulled alongside and uh called the police. Okay. And to 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.520 go back to your statement about luminal, Yeah, the other things, 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.160 what I mean, are they other things that might naturally 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.240 be in a dinghy that would no, not necessarily yeah, 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.000 that would light up a luminal but apparently yeah, I 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.560 can't remember. I looked. I checked out the the Wikipedia 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.000 page about it, and there's a lot of different substances. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.720 I think that anything that has iron in it, for example, 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.560 like blood has iron, So any anything that would have 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.680 iron in it, you know, would would definitely kind of said, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.719 But not anything that would naturally just be all over 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.119 the RV a tinny uh, unless they were like gutting 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.600 fish in there at one point. Probably not now, I 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.080 don't know how, I don't even think would do it. Yeah, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.040 really stupid example. I just want to clarify those two things. Sorry. Good. Yeah, 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.600 so it's something that appeared to be blood, but there's 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.400 but you know, it should be stated for for sake 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:23.240 of fairness, that it wasn't actually totally proven to be blood. Yeah, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.399 just presumed. Yeah, just presumed to be blood. And by 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.600 the way, I still know Bob, he didn't even leave 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.560 it out. Long story short, though, the police looked into it, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.840 and after an eight month investigation, which included lots of 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.760 forensic examination of the boat and Dinghy, lots of interrogations 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.840 as Sue and and also bugging Sue's house for a while, 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:48.040 and also interviewing everybody she knew, she was arrested, charged 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.200 with murdering Bob Chappell, and after a trial, she was 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.240 sentenced to twenty eight years in prison. But I think 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.200 that was when she was sentenced with the possibility of 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:02.480 parole after eighteen years. It was reduced on appeal later 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.560 to twenty three years thirteen possibility of parole. So it's 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.680