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Speaker 1: D R O l L dot com slash sideways. You

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Speaker 1: know how to spell sideways? Who are well? Hi there,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm your host, Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and your other host Devin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Joe is not the only host. Yeah, he's the host

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Speaker 1: this week I oh sorry. Yeah, okay, well I guess

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Speaker 1: you know what's really going on in the back of

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Speaker 1: my head. Uh, he's been reading about this story too long. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: well here we go. Yeah, I totally want to see

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Speaker 1: the podcast all for me. Yeah. This week we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about a fun disappearance that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: think was a murder. And that's a guy in Australian

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Speaker 1: named Bob Chappell. His name is spelled Chappelle, but it's

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Speaker 1: pronounced Chapel. Apparently. He disappeared January nine in West Hobart, Australia,

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Speaker 1: which is in tess India, which, if you don't know,

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Speaker 1: is an island off the south coast of the Australian mainland.

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Speaker 1: It's part of Australia. And uh. The story was suggested

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Speaker 1: by our listeners Lucil and Renee, who no doubt or

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Speaker 1: Tasmanian themselves, because the story, as it turns out, as

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Speaker 1: a really big deal in Tasmania and actually Australia in general,

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Speaker 1: even though a lot of Americans maybe have not heard

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Speaker 1: of it. But it's big down there, is it is ongoing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now you're gonna know all about this story. America Europe, Pakistan,

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Speaker 1: you name it. So Bob Chapel when he went missing

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, Bob was living with a woman

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Speaker 1: named Sue Neil Fraser, who was now in prison for murder. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And Bob and Sue had been together about eighteen years

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Speaker 1: when Bob disappeared, and according to some people, will the

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Speaker 1: the fun had gone out of the relationship. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: does tend to happen to a lot of relationships. It

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Speaker 1: does happen, yes, So, but that of course made her

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Speaker 1: kind of a candidate is a suspect for murder, you know,

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Speaker 1: typically know, it's not unusual, right uh like, But like said,

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Speaker 1: a ton of people in Tasmania thinks she's innocent and

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Speaker 1: that her conviction for Bob's murder was a huge miscarriage

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Speaker 1: of justice. And there's a big campaign going on to

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Speaker 1: find information to exonerate Sue. The kinds of court appeals

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Speaker 1: one of what's just happened as a matter of fact.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And you probably if you go out look,

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Speaker 1: you'll find you'll see that billboard that's got that picture

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Speaker 1: of Sue and it says reward forty dollars for information. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now proving the innocence of Souon Neil Neil Fraser and uh, yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about how the whole appeal thing played out here,

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Speaker 1: but let me give you a little more background for so,

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Speaker 1: this kind of kind of violates our five year old

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Speaker 1: but well over five years. But you know, I picked

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Speaker 1: the story, and I and everything, and then I and

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Speaker 1: then after I go out to do my research, I

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Speaker 1: suddenly realized, Oh, all this new stuff happening, And whenever

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Speaker 1: you do a search, all these new links pop up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and technically he's over the limit, but luckily no, nothing

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Speaker 1: conclusive came about, which is why we're still talking about Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so who knows. I mean, maybe she's still in

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Speaker 1: prison now, but who knows, maybe spring in one of

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Speaker 1: these days, or she'll finish your sentences and just get

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Speaker 1: out of prison. With our luck, like two days before

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Speaker 1: we drop this conclusively, somebody will confess. Uh. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: back to the back to the beginning here, Bob and

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Speaker 1: Sue were both divorced with kids. I think he had three,

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Speaker 1: she had too, and I think the kids were grown

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Speaker 1: by the time this happened. And I believe Bob and

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Speaker 1: Sue had been a thank for about eighteen years when

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Speaker 1: Bob finally shuffled off the stage. And I'm putting it

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Speaker 1: that way because actually nobody really knows what happened to Bob.

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Speaker 1: Now you just vanished. Everybody assumes he's dead, which includes

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Speaker 1: the police, the courts, his family, friends. Yeah, but maybe not.

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Speaker 1: But nobody was ever found. Um, so there's actually not

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Speaker 1: on a percent rocks actually that very big void in

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Speaker 1: evidence for what the heck happened to him. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: interestingly enough, nobody was found. No murder weapon was found. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, And so it's interesting that police managed to

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Speaker 1: get a conviction out of this out of this movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but in two thousand eight, that just months before this happened.

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Speaker 1: Soon and Bob bought themselves a nice big boat, a

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Speaker 1: fifty three ft catch called the Four Winds, which actually

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Speaker 1: I've seen photos of it, just really nice. What what's

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Speaker 1: the catch catches A is like it's a two masted sailboat,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's the tall mast is in front and

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Speaker 1: the short mast is in the rear of the boat,

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Speaker 1: the stern. That's a catch. And there's also the y'all

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Speaker 1: just a similar able to y'all that the aftmatches stepped

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Speaker 1: a little further back and it's smaller, so there's a difference. Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately everybody in podcast Land couldn't see Joe's defining hand es.

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Speaker 1: He was also looking very concerned at me, like, I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: You don't understand this already? Do you not know what

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Speaker 1: this is? I mean, you're about to buy a boat

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Speaker 1: a right, And actually, okay, for the sailing purists out there,

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Speaker 1: that the station between the catch and y'all is the y'all.

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Speaker 1: The mast is stepped behind the steering station and the

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Speaker 1: catch is stepped in front of the steering station. You're

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Speaker 1: just showing off now, okay, alright, that's that's how you

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Speaker 1: tell the difference between the two. Okay. But they bought

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Speaker 1: it in Queensland, which is on the northeast coast of Australia,

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Speaker 1: quite a way from Tasmania, and they had ideas for

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Speaker 1: the boat about retiring doing a lot of sailing. They

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Speaker 1: were planning maybe a dream trip of sailing around Australia

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Speaker 1: and about the last fate intervened they never took that trip.

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Speaker 1: When they were in Queensland after they bought the boat,

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Speaker 1: they hired two crew members to help them sail to

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Speaker 1: Hobart and their names were Peter Stevenson and David Cassan,

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Speaker 1: And presumably that's because they were unfamiliar with the boat,

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Speaker 1: and these guys they had some sailing experience. I know,

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Speaker 1: Sue at least had owned a fairly decent sized sailboat previously,

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Speaker 1: and I think, you know, and so presumably and that

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Speaker 1: was while they were together, so presumably he picked up

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience sailing on that. And so I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing it was kind of a you know better and

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Speaker 1: this is a bit of a training run for us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well probably, yeah. I don't know how big the previous

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Speaker 1: but it was obviously a fifty foot catches is kind

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Speaker 1: of bigger and harder to handle than a little twenty

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Speaker 1: six foot sloop or something like that. And it's been

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, you know. Or maybe maybe they

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Speaker 1: just wanted a couple of extra hands so they could

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Speaker 1: actually catch some sleep. Also, pod it could be that

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Speaker 1: would definitely make for some wider work. Yeah, But they

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Speaker 1: hired these two guys, and then unfortunately Bob had us

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Speaker 1: a few medical issues and wind up checking into the

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Speaker 1: hospital for a little bit, and he decided to fly

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Speaker 1: back to Hobart, while soon the crew sailed the boat back.

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Speaker 1: And as for Hobart that it is on the southeast

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Speaker 1: coast of Tasman, you know what, on what's called the

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Speaker 1: River Derwent. And I'm no doubt mispronouncing that. Probably maybe

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Speaker 1: it's maybe that Australians called it the Darwin or something

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Speaker 1: like that or the door Winner. I don't know. Uh,

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Speaker 1: somebody send me an email. Yeah, exactly, UHO. And where

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Speaker 1: Hobart is, it's on the River Derwood, but it's kind

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Speaker 1: of more of a big inlet there. It's huge. It's

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Speaker 1: wide near the sea where they had an anchor's off

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Speaker 1: battery point in the Hobart in the river on the

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Speaker 1: west side of the river. And of course when they

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Speaker 1: bought the boat and had a few issues, which is

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Speaker 1: not a surprise boats usually do, and it was a

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Speaker 1: used boat. Boats are holes in the water that you

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Speaker 1: throw money in. Oh hell yeah, And it could have

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Speaker 1: been one of the things that placed a little rain

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Speaker 1: on their relationship. They do that. And I know, Steve,

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Speaker 1: you're going to like a little project right now, let's

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Speaker 1: place a little strain on your It is a little project,

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Speaker 1: but it just turned into a big project. The dots. Ye,

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Speaker 1: just thrown the old one and start over, just sell

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Speaker 1: it and buy something. Yeah. But the boat had had

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Speaker 1: some work done before leaving Queensland and uh. And then

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Speaker 1: of course after getting on homeboard, it needed some more

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Speaker 1: work done. And of course in the last day that

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Speaker 1: he was seeing Bob Chapel was on the four winds

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Speaker 1: working on the boat, or at least that's what he

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Speaker 1: said to Sue. Well, and of course if it needed work,

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Speaker 1: then it would make sense that you would just go

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Speaker 1: and work on the boat. Yeah, if you got the

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Speaker 1: time and you want to retire on it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't take around about it. Yeah. And and besides which

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Speaker 1: this is your dream boat. You want to get the

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Speaker 1: thing all ship shape no pun intended, and have it

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Speaker 1: all ready to go. And so you gotta get that

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Speaker 1: stuff taken care of. And so Bob was working away

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Speaker 1: and on the morning of twenty six January, Sue visited Bob,

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Speaker 1: and the yacht left late morning to go and have

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Speaker 1: lunch with a friend. Turns out the friend was his

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Speaker 1: daughter and sound chews. Yeah, Bob's daughter Caroline and Sanchez.

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Speaker 1: I think she goes away an uh and sorry, Sue

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Speaker 1: was going to have lunch with her. Yeah, Sue what

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Speaker 1: to have lunch with her, and they met at the

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Speaker 1: Royal Yacht Club, which is actually right where it was anchored. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it was anchored off shore. I assume they didn't have

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Speaker 1: a slip at the Royal Yacht Club, even though I

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Speaker 1: think they were members and their privileges. But it looks

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Speaker 1: like it's all full. If you look at the arials,

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Speaker 1: it's all full, and there's literally dozens of yachts anchored

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Speaker 1: offshore from it. So I assume there's a waiting list

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Speaker 1: to get into the Royal Yacht Club. That's why they

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Speaker 1: had their boat moored out way out in the river, yeah,

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Speaker 1: instead of you know, I'm a slip. Yeah. During but

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Speaker 1: during this lunch, and Sanchez took a photo which was

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Speaker 1: later used as evidence against Sue. We'll hear about that later.

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Speaker 1: But then later on about mid afternoon, she returned to

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Speaker 1: the boat, uh and she told police that she had

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Speaker 1: an argument with Bob, and Bob told her he wanted

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Speaker 1: to stay on the yacht overnight, so she took the

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Speaker 1: dinghy and their dinghy, by the way, it was an

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Speaker 1: inflatable craft kind of like his Zodiac, big rubber boat.

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Speaker 1: Big rubber boat. It's kind of the pontoons. Just got

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Speaker 1: the flat transome in the back of the headache and

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Speaker 1: had an outboard on it. So she takes the dinghy

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Speaker 1: back to shore, which left Bob stranded on the odd

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Speaker 1: Over nine. And this was the last time that Sue

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Speaker 1: saw Bob at least potentially, Yeah, potentially maybe uh. And

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Speaker 1: she was questioned later and told police about leaving him

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Speaker 1: stranded on the yacht, and she said she thought it

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Speaker 1: was safe to ly Bob on the yacht without the

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Speaker 1: dinghy because she said he was not actually good at

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Speaker 1: getting in and out of it on his own, and

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Speaker 1: apparently she was worried he might screw up and fall

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Speaker 1: into the water and drown. I don't know, Well, was

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Speaker 1: that because he was just kind of clumsy at it,

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Speaker 1: or is it because of like a medical issue, because

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Speaker 1: he'd had the medical issues that prevented him from, you know,

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Speaker 1: coming from with the boat home. So yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: never I had never heard it said exactly why it

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Speaker 1: was she was concerned about his abilities for getting out, wondered,

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Speaker 1: as I did all the reading and couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Presumably because they had been married eighteen years and she

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Speaker 1: knew that rods are, that they had been together for

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Speaker 1: eighteen years, and that she kind of thought, well, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of an idiot, and I hate him, I know,

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Speaker 1: I despised him. He was just incompetence. She's just so everything.

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Speaker 1: But uh, and of course some people contradicted that. There

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Speaker 1: were other people who said, no, we saw him get

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Speaker 1: in and out of it all the time off the goat,

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Speaker 1: and he had no problem at all doing it. It

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Speaker 1: was only when Sue was around drugging him that crazy.

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Speaker 1: When got back to shore from her visit with Bob

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Speaker 1: on the boat, she tied the dingy to a ladder

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Speaker 1: at the Royal Yacht Club. She said she tied her

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Speaker 1: usual away with three knots. I don't know what those

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Speaker 1: three knots were, but she said that it had never

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Speaker 1: come undone before, so of course it came un done naturally.

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Speaker 1: Of course, of course, Yeah, yes, it comes undone overnight

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Speaker 1: or somebody untied it. Uh. The evidence indicates actually that

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Speaker 1: somebody did untied because the painter that you know, sailors

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Speaker 1: are they gonna call everything a different name. So that's

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Speaker 1: like with seven hundred names for ice. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: In three thousand thirty seven for snow. Yes, But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so the painter, which is a rope that's tied to

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Speaker 1: the front of the boat, he tied to the dock

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Speaker 1: with and it was found inside the dinghy and not

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Speaker 1: trailing in the water as it would have benefited at

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Speaker 1: the nicam. And then so somebody undid those knots and

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Speaker 1: tossed it in the boat and tossed the rope in

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Speaker 1: the boat sometime overnight, someone who was bad at staging things,

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Speaker 1: apparently at five forty am the next morning, that would

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Speaker 1: be January, an unnamed person I'd never I'm sure if

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Speaker 1: i'd gone through right three articles I could have found

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Speaker 1: this guy's name. I don't know that it matters, not really.

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Speaker 1: But somebody found the dinghy bobbing against the rocks untied.

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Speaker 1: He secured it and then headed out into the water

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Speaker 1: and a boat with somebody else who also I don't

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Speaker 1: have his name, and they happened to pass nearby the

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Speaker 1: four Winds, and they noticed that it was very low

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Speaker 1: in the water. Convenient. Can I ask a question, yea,

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Speaker 1: this is probably stupid question, but do the dinghy's usually

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Speaker 1: have the name of the ship that they're so the

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Speaker 1: boat they're associated with them. You know, it depends on

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Speaker 1: how much money and how just how how you know,

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Speaker 1: and how big the boat is and everything like that.

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Speaker 1: So the dinghy is big enough, like you know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: the bigger the yacht, the bigger the dinghy, you know, right,

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Speaker 1: And that is one gets to a certain point. Wait

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Speaker 1: are you talking about the owner or the thing that

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Speaker 1: floats to the water and wait, yeah, good point. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, typically, I mean the larger boats, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them do have they're labeled one way or another.

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Speaker 1: But this one was labeled. No. I've seen pictures of

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Speaker 1: this one, and I had not seen typically, I don't

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Speaker 1: think people paint the boat name on an inflatable raft anyway, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, sharpie or something, just so you know who's Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just I just think there's probably a

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Speaker 1: lot of dinghies on you know. That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: You would expect everybody just know which one is there,

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Speaker 1: you know, And but I might not have Sharpie on it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this one, I've seen a few pictures of it.

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Speaker 1: I saw no signs of any any labeling whatsoever other

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Speaker 1: than a brand name that was on the side of it.

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Speaker 1: So they just happened to pass by the Four Winds.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they just these guys happened to pass by

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Speaker 1: the Four Winds. They noticed it's really low in the water,

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Speaker 1: alarmingly low, so they stopped, climbed the board. Noticed there

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Speaker 1: was still a little bit of blood and a few

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Speaker 1: things like a you know, bloody knife, a few things

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Speaker 1: like that laying around. So they called the police. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The police phoned Sue at Bob and sus house at

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Speaker 1: seven eleven am on January that told her they've gotten

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Speaker 1: report that their boat was sinking. So Sue gets to

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Speaker 1: the car and heads down to the Royal Yacht Club.

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Speaker 1: And when she shows up and and police showed up

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Speaker 1: and boarded the Four Winds, they noticed, for some clue,

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Speaker 1: blood on the steps leading down into the salon, a

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Speaker 1: knife on the floor of the wheelhouse, a flashlight with

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Speaker 1: blood on it. But no Bob Bob was gone. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the boat was still low in the water and sinking

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Speaker 1: because it turns out that a pipe to the forward

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Speaker 1: head had been cut. It was a plastic pipe, so

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, nautical toilet. Sorry, they don't don't

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Speaker 1: use good water to flush the toilet. They just in

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Speaker 1: water from outside to flush the toilet. And that's really

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Speaker 1: so somebody cut that pipe which let water into the boat.

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Speaker 1: So it's an intake line that is now bleeding into

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Speaker 1: the interior of the boat. Yeah. And also it turns

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Speaker 1: out there was a sea cock that was underneath the

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Speaker 1: floor ring in the forward part of the boat, I

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Speaker 1: should say the bow. It had been opened also. And

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Speaker 1: also sea cock is just a it's like a get

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Speaker 1: of the plug in your bathtub basically, it's that. Yeah. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: we're just using a lot of body terms, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like our listeners some of them no body terms,

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Speaker 1: but very good point. Now seacock is there, and normally

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Speaker 1: would seemed like kind of a dangerous thing to have,

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Speaker 1: but when you haul the boat out of the water

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Speaker 1: and you've got water in the villages, it's nice to

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Speaker 1: be able to open something up in yeah, really heavy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and pulling a boat out of the water full of

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Speaker 1: water will actually make it tear itself apart. It's not

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Speaker 1: meant to sustain the water that it can be kind

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Speaker 1: of hard on things. Yeah. Oh, and also, last of all,

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Speaker 1: the builage pump had been shut up. Yeah, and so well,

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Speaker 1: so the one means to pump the water back out

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Speaker 1: has now been defaulted. Yeah, so somebody. So, somebody obviously

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Speaker 1: had sabotaged the boat, right looks that way to me anyway.

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Speaker 1: At some point the first time Sue was on the

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Speaker 1: boat with the police. I don't know if she was

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Speaker 1: with them the first time they boardered it or maybe

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Speaker 1: later in the day, but she knows some rub barks

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Speaker 1: on the wooden surrounds of the main hatch of the

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Speaker 1: yacht and that main hatches to the entrance to the

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Speaker 1: lower deck. Yeah, yeah, and just exactly, that's the one

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Speaker 1: that's kind of half door half hatch, you know, the

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Speaker 1: kind of talking about when there's a little door on

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Speaker 1: the front, then there's a hatch on top that slides

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Speaker 1: back so you don't bang your head. This is like

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about in the Jim Gray episode. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Uh So she noticed some some rub barks on that

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Speaker 1: which were kind of inconspicuous. She said, they had not

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Speaker 1: been there before, and the police noticed there were also

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Speaker 1: fibers in the marks that appeared to be from a rope.

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Speaker 1: And also they I don't know if they noticed this

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Speaker 1: because there was an empty bracket or a suit pointed

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Speaker 1: it out, but the most fire extinguisher was missing as well,

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Speaker 1: and it was apparently a large, very large, heavy model

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Speaker 1: fire extinguisher. It was gone. Okay, yeah, and so also

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Speaker 1: checking for evidence around and stuff. The police looked at

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Speaker 1: the dinghy. They checked it with loomin All. You know,

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Speaker 1: lumin all, you spray that on it, and blood activates it,

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Speaker 1: makes it glow under a black light, and of course

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Speaker 1: just has a lot of defenders. And suit pointed out

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00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: other things besides blood can activate loomin all and make

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Speaker 1: it glow. So but but apparently they sprayed some lumin

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Speaker 1: All on the bottom of the dinghy, and well a

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Speaker 1: lot of it glowed like a yeah kind of um

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Speaker 1: so sorry, maybe I'm confused. The two guys unnamed find

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Speaker 1: the dinghy, they get in the dinghy, No, it's it

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Speaker 1: just said that the guy that found it secured it.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if that means he just tied

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Speaker 1: it to something or that means he drug for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I thought they hopped in it. I think he just

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Speaker 1: saw it secured it. And then they went out on

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Speaker 1: his boat and then they board the four Winds and

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Speaker 1: apparently don't disrupt the crime scene. Well, and that's another thing.

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Speaker 1: That's as far as I know, they did board it.

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Speaker 1: At least in one account I've heard they boarded it,

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Speaker 1: and then one of those was actually a court accounts,

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Speaker 1: so probably accurate. But then in other accounts I've heard

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Speaker 1: that they actually just looked and they yelled and nobody

368
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 1: would nobody seemed to be home, and then they called police,

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Speaker 1: maybe from a cell phone in their own in the boat.

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00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: So maybe they didn't actually board it. Maybe they just

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Speaker 1: pulled alongside and uh called the police. Okay. And to

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Speaker 1: go back to your statement about luminal, Yeah, the other things,

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Speaker 1: what I mean, are they other things that might naturally

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Speaker 1: be in a dinghy that would no, not necessarily yeah,

375
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: that would light up a luminal but apparently yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can't remember. I looked. I checked out the the Wikipedia

377
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 1: page about it, and there's a lot of different substances.

378
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Speaker 1: I think that anything that has iron in it, for example,

379
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Speaker 1: like blood has iron, So any anything that would have

380
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 1: iron in it, you know, would would definitely kind of said,

381
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,719
Speaker 1: But not anything that would naturally just be all over

382
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: the RV a tinny uh, unless they were like gutting

383
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 1: fish in there at one point. Probably not now, I

384
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know how, I don't even think would do it. Yeah,

385
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 1: really stupid example. I just want to clarify those two things. Sorry. Good. Yeah,

386
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: so it's something that appeared to be blood, but there's

387
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 1: but you know, it should be stated for for sake

388
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: of fairness, that it wasn't actually totally proven to be blood. Yeah,

389
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: just presumed. Yeah, just presumed to be blood. And by

390
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: the way, I still know Bob, he didn't even leave

391
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Speaker 1: it out. Long story short, though, the police looked into it,

392
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 1: and after an eight month investigation, which included lots of

393
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: forensic examination of the boat and Dinghy, lots of interrogations

394
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 1: as Sue and and also bugging Sue's house for a while,

395
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: and also interviewing everybody she knew, she was arrested, charged

396
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: with murdering Bob Chappell, and after a trial, she was

397
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Speaker 1: sentenced to twenty eight years in prison. But I think

398
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: that was when she was sentenced with the possibility of

399
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Speaker 1: parole after eighteen years. It was reduced on appeal later

400
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: to twenty three years thirteen possibility of parole. So it's

401
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 1: with a lot of what people would call her rather

402
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. Yeah, it was a pretty circumstantial case. It

403
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: really was. Again, no murder weapon, nobody, So did she

404
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: murder Bob? Did somebody else murder Bob? Not? Everybody agrees

405
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: on this. Uh uh, Like I said, nobody, no weapon.

406
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 1: Although the prosecution things that Sue Batch is heading with

407
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: a wrench, nobody actually knows what the murder weapon was.

408
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: So maybe they were dancing his head that kind of

409
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 1: That's right, nobody, what're saying? Yeah, yeah, no real smoking gun.

410
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: And when by that, I mean there was no one

411
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: thing that really incriminated Sue. It was just a lot

412
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: of little things that added up. But before I get

413
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: into Sue's guilt of innocence, I'm sure you all want

414
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: to know what happened to the boat? Did it? Say? Well, no,

415
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: did you find a new home? Yeah? Well I'm sure

416
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: it has by now. Yeah, we bought it around the

417
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: world tour. It was taken. It's gonna be a disaster.

418
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: Oh god. Now would kill each other? I mean to

419
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: be the question, you know, like who murdered Stephen Devon

420
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: and I would say yeah I was, I was asleep, man,

421
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: But the uh or maybe whom Hubert or Joe and

422
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: you guys would be like, oh yeah, oh back to

423
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 1: our thing though. It was towed to a nearby dock

424
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 1: called Constitution Dock that's just kind of northwest of there,

425
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: uh and north of the club. Uh. And it was

426
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 1: kept there for a few days and I think the

427
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: leaks were stopped and everything. Um. January, it was taken

428
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: to a place called Clean Lift Marine and hauled out

429
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: of the river for inspection. Clean Lifting ries about maybe

430
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: five miles north of there on the river, and on

431
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: January the police were going over it, the forensics guys,

432
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: and a swab was taken from the boat on the

433
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: starboard deck about the midships which had DNA from an

434
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: unknown female. Yeah, didn't match anything in the police databay.

435
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: But then about six weeks later, a fifteen year old

436
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: homeless girl named Megan Voss had a run in with police.

437
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: A sample liber DNA was taken and put in the

438
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: database and presto, like that little bell in Jeopardy. Yeah yeah, yeah,

439
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: uh so Megan Voss's DNA it was on the four winds.

440
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 1: And this is this has been a big deal to

441
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: this day people, or I mean she was I saw

442
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: a picture. Ever, she was in court just a few

443
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: months ago about this whole issue. So it's still a

444
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: big deal to a lot of people. Uh, we'll talk

445
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: more about that in a bit. And they also found

446
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: another piece of unidentified DNA on the boat and it

447
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: has never been identified, which shouldn't come as a total

448
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: surprise because according to the police, at least twenty one

449
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: people had been on the boat between the time it

450
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: was found sinking and when the DNA samples were taken

451
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: three days later. And that's not County forensics personnel, by

452
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: the way. And of course people had I'm sure been

453
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: on the boat before. You know, there were people that

454
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: were guests or friends or whatever. Of course they were

455
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: having it worked on by various people. And say, god

456
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: knows who's DNA that could have been, or it could

457
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: have been you know, maybe a murderer who knows it

458
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: wasn't whose DNA it's. Yeah, So we got two pieces

459
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: of d N A that in theory weren't supposed to

460
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: be there. But Megan Voss denied that she had ever

461
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: been in the Four Winds. She was very consistent about it.

462
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: She was asked if she had ever been to any

463
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: of the places the boat was at, like Constitution dock

464
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: or clean Line or Clean Lip Marine, and she said no.

465
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: She said she had no idea whatsoever how it got there.

466
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: And they asked her where she was the night of

467
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: the murder, and she was not really sure about that either.

468
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: But it turns out she was homeless, like I said,

469
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: and so moving from shelter to shelter the days. Yeah,

470
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: and when she was finally question about this, of course,

471
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: this was you know, weeks and at least a month

472
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: and a half after the murders, maybe longer than that.

473
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: So disappear, Yeah, I understand, Yeah better. Oh yeah, sorry,

474
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: sorry disparience. Yeah. Um. One thing I will say is

475
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: I I don't know that this is what's happening here,

476
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: and I'm totally like shooting from the hip again. Um,

477
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: as my disclaimer here, just remembering something that I had heard.

478
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: I feel like it was maybe on like a last

479
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: week tonight or something like that, about a lot of

480
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: forensic labs having a hard time, Um, when there are

481
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: multiple people's DNA mixed actually isolating the correct DNA profile,

482
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: it would be an amazing coincidence if it just happened

483
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: that they had two DNAs mixed together that were that

484
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: provided a positive for for Megan. But it's not heard

485
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: of I mean people have been I think, I believe,

486
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: if I'm remembering this correctly, people have been convicted on

487
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: what was presented as like hardcore DNA evidence. But you know,

488
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: there were like five or six different blood it was yeah,

489
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: and then it just happened that, you know, you could

490
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: read certain markers as matching, and so the lab was like, yeah, matches,

491
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: but it was really only two or three markers. I

492
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I don't think that's what happened here,

493
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: but what it would be a hell of a coincidence,

494
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: But it's happened before. I mean, people have been convicted. Yeah,

495
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: I believe. Again disclaimer, I believe that I heard that.

496
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: I might have just dreamed it. I don't know. That's fine.

497
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: Dreams are Dreams are fine, They're admissible on this podcast.

498
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: But you but you bring up a good point to

499
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: which is that DNA testing is not infallible. Even though

500
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: DNA is is a really really good way to identify people.

501
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: That assumes that everybody's doing their job right, everybody's being honest,

502
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: which is not always the case. Sometimes there's an incentive

503
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: to not be forthright that you made a mistake, because

504
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: that that tarnishes your reputation, which then screws everything up down.

505
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, and so there's all kinds of different

506
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: ways that you can mess up your DNA tests. So

507
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: so we shouldn't take this as total proof that Megan

508
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: Boss was on the four winds um you know, and

509
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: the prosecution says she was not. That they there at

510
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: least they believe she wasn't. They think it's most likely

511
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: it was, So how would so so then how how

512
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: how did your DNA get there? Well, the prosecution has

513
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: said there they think the most likely probable theory is

514
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: that a police have been tracked it onto the yachts somehow.

515
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: It's transference, yea transference. There's been an argument against that

516
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: also of course. Yeah, well that the Victoria Police Department

517
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: apparently came in and reviewed the case because of all

518
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: the controversy, and uh then they liked at the DNA

519
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: sample they've taken. They said, there's just I guess too

520
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: much DNA or something like that. Porto just been a transference.

521
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: It had to have been a direct application from somebody. Yeah,

522
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: that's what they said. But again, you know, again, I

523
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: think this whole DNA thing is just there's so many

524
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: ways it can get screwed up. Yeah, yeah, and saying,

525
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: of course, Megan is Megan Voss has been very consistent

526
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: all the way along, which is not really typical. If

527
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: somebody who's actually got something to hi'dlight that. Usually when

528
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: they're presented with that evidence, they're like, oh, yeah, well

529
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: maybe I was down there because they actually gave her

530
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: an out and I said, well, it was tied up

531
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: at Constitution Dock right over there. We were over there

532
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: over there. She could have said, yeah, I remember I

533
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: was over there, like being homeless one night, and I

534
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: stumbled around and put my hands all over a lot

535
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: of boats. She didn't do that, even though it was

536
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: right near where she lives. She could have just said, yeah,

537
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: I remember stumbled around over there. No doubt I touched it.

538
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: She didn't do that, you know. So again, that doesn't

539
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: prove that she's you know, absolutely innocent. Maybe she did murder.

540
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: She's also maybe she is responsible for Bob's disappearance. She's

541
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: also she was fifteen at the time of murder. Yeah, yeah,

542
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: saying that's true. We'll talk a little bit more about

543
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Megan a little bit here, but first let's look at

544
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: the case against Sue Neil Fraser, who you know a

545
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: I said, has a lot of supporters down to Tasmania.

546
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: The prosecution's theory of the crime is this Bob and

547
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: Sue's relationship was reaching. It send from a financial standpoint,

548
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: Sue would be much better off with Bob dead, in

549
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: her winding up with whole ownership of all their common assets,

550
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: you know, house boat, whatever, rather than having to split

551
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: all that stuff up with Bob and maybe you know

552
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: him even getting a hyd percent of stuff, like maybe

553
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: the house. I don't even know he might have owned

554
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: the house outright, I don't know. Yeah, we don't know

555
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: whose name was on what. Apparently apparently they did the

556
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: math on it, and they feel that Sue was significantly

557
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: better off with Bob dead. And they were not married.

558
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: They were not married, They were just but having been together.

559
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: It might have been a common law marriage if they've

560
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: been together, but they weren't. There was no like, you know,

561
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: if they get divorced, it's half and half, divide a

562
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: bassets blah blah blah blah. No, no, no, no, not

563
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. So the prosecution series that on the

564
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: night of January or actually the afternoon of January nine,

565
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: Sue went out to the Four Winds and murdered Bob

566
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: with a blond object down in the main cabin and

567
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: returned to shore went home. Later that night, she had

568
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: a phone conversation with a guy named Richard King, and

569
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: which King demanded to speak to Bob, and she said

570
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: Bob was unreachable at the moment. And then after the

571
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: call in it, which would have been about ten thirty

572
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: five pm, Sue became worried that King might go down

573
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: to the Four Winds himself and discovered the body. So

574
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: she drove down to the waterfront, went out to the

575
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: boat in the digging winch Bob's body out of the cabin.

576
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: The boat had a had a winch on it, and

577
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: so she used the winch to winch it out of

578
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: the cabin, or at least to help her get the

579
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: body out of the cabin. Yeah. Yeah, it's a little

580
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: a little helping hand there, and dead weight is not

581
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: easy to move, No, it's but yeah, definitely, and so

582
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: having that little extra would probably have done the trick

583
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: for the In their theory is she tied the body

584
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: to the large or put the body into the dingy,

585
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: tied it to that large heavy fire extinguisher that I

586
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier to weigh it down, took it somewhere down

587
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: the river to deeper water, because they searched the river

588
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: pretty carefully with the divers and everything, we're not able

589
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: to find it, and dumped the body and then went

590
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: back to the boat to clean it up and get

591
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: rid of as much evidence as possible. So you pieces

592
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: of carpet have been removed and stuff like this, and

593
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: so you know, somebody did apparently did try to at

594
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: least get rid of some of the evidence, although not

595
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: all of it. Uh. And then she also attempted the

596
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: course to sink the boat. And according as is also

597
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: part of their theory, only suit or Bob would have

598
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: been familiar enough of the plumbing on that boat to

599
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: be able to do what she did, unless unless somebody

600
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: happened to what are what the old as that she did,

601
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: unless whoever came aboard the boat and murdered Bob really

602
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: knew a lot about boats, which is possible. I mean,

603
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: like Joe knows enough about boats, well, you know, but

604
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: but even me, if I go to the forward head

605
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: and and and you say to me, Joe, slash the

606
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: intake line, I wouldn't know which one was the intake. Yeah,

607
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: I really wasn't. Yeah, yeah, you have to actually know

608
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: your own boat to know that stuff. Probably, And sorry,

609
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't think we talked about this. What what was

610
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: the what? What? Sue and Bob? Were they big people?

611
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: Was she big? Was he? I mean were they comparable

612
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: size to each other? They seemed to be reasonably similar

613
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: in size. Yeah, he was not a huge guy and

614
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: she was not a tiny, petit woman. I mean, you know,

615
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: just is it even reasonable for her to have, you know,

616
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: been able to even move his body at all? I

617
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: think that you know what I mean. You know, on

618
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: a sailboat you do have winches all over the place

619
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: that for you know, that have to pull heavy stuff

620
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: like pull anchors up. But you do have to like

621
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: get a body to a place where you can get

622
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: the winch. I mean, that's that's what those rub marks

623
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: in the hatches steroies came from the rope. The rope

624
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: goes down, she ties it around his chest or something

625
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: like that and then starts winching it up. And I'm

626
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: sure it would have been a kind of brutally hard job.

627
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, obviously she didn't plan the crime

628
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: as carefully as you probably should have. I also, I

629
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: guess I just have a problem with what. You know,

630
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: she's the one who pointed the rope marks out, and

631
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: like if she had cost them with the winch, she

632
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: would yeah, yeah, that that that's one possibility. She would

633
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: have kept her mouth shut. I don't know if that

634
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: was maybe her trying to get out ahead of kind

635
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: of get ahead of the whole thing, and just you know,

636
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: it was it was dumb if she did anyway, So

637
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: it was dumb. I mean I think that. But again

638
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: that there and there there. I've seen an other cases

639
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: where people point stuff out to the police that later

640
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: incriminated him. It's like, I really do think that it's

641
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: either maybe arrogance or maybe they're just trying to get ahead.

642
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: You know, they don't want the police to point to

643
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: this and I say to you, what's this? And how

644
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: do you look? All guilty? Instead you say, hey, wow,

645
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: what's that policeman? You know? And so yeah, anyway, sorry,

646
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 1: but anyway, I never said Sue was brilliant. Yeah, oh, anyway,

647
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: back to the prosecution. So let's finish the size. Yeah.

648
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: So so she she scuttles the boat, or at least

649
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: attempts to then takes the dinghy back to shore, cast

650
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: to the drift, goes home. It's three way to am.

651
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: She made it a ten pound call it or landline,

652
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: so that's one zero pound And apparently in Australia what

653
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: that does is it tells you the number of the

654
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: last incoming call that you received. It's like, what do

655
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: we have her here that we used to have before

656
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: it was a star six line? Yeah, same kind of

657
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: same thing. This is the prosecution theory. Why why did

658
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: she do ten pound? She just I think she wanted

659
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: to see, if we'll see, because she was going to

660
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: she was going to tell the police that she was

661
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: home all night. Now if somebody had been trying to

662
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: call her, yeah, and so and her last call was

663
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: an income and call from Richard King, so she ten

664
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: pounds it and that's the call then hey bingo? Yeah, okay,

665
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: But anyway that the prosecution series seems reasonable enough. But

666
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: how to convince a jury of this, because remember then

667
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: that can't just be kind of reasonable, It's got to

668
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: be beyond a reasonable doubt. Yeah, Because I mean, theoretically,

669
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: she could have woken up in the middle of night

670
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: thought the phone had rang and had missed it and

671
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: started it ten pounds to see if she had truly

672
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: missed her She's dreamed nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe she

673
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: was taken a bid night shower and just thought, oh

674
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: I got heard the phone. Yeah, absolutely, very common. Yeah,

675
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: all the time right now? Well, first, what were sues

676
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: whereabouts after she parted ways with Bob on the afternoon

677
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: of January Well, okay, she says she went to shore,

678
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: tied up her dinghy, got into her car and went

679
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: to Bunnings, which is the Australian version of home Depot. Yeah,

680
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: she browsed for a long time but didn't buy the thing,

681
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: then went home. Uh. Bob and Sue lived on Allison Street,

682
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: which is about two miles from the Royal Yacht Club.

683
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: It's about a mile and a half as the crail flies,

684
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: but by street if you walk it drive it's too much. Yeah.

685
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: She said it was getting dark when she got home,

686
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: so that would be late because sunset and Hobart that

687
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: day was a PM. And after she got home she

688
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: made two phone calls and then she received that ten

689
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: o five phone call from Richard King that I mentioned before,

690
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: and she was home the rest of the night until

691
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: she was filmed by police the next morning at seven

692
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: eleven am, and she drove down to the Royal Yacht

693
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Club right away, and that's on the seven that's what

694
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: she told police. Um and this story of course did

695
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: change a bit over time, as you guys may or

696
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: may not know. Yeah, but that same morning, the owner

697
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: of a house at to Margaret Street found a red

698
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: jacket on the brick while outside his house. And you

699
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: could see this house on Google street View. They drove

700
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: past it. To lay this out for you, Marieville Esplanade

701
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: is a street that runs right next to the marina

702
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: and kind of runs north south and parallel to the shoreline.

703
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: At the north end of it, or near the north

704
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: end of it, at right angles there is uh Margaret

705
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: Street that goes off of it, a tease into it.

706
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: And so this house was just right off from Reville

707
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: Esplanade and this uh and and whether Jackets was found

708
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,959
Speaker 1: is about a hundred and fifty yards from where Sue

709
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: had tied up the digging the night before we had

710
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: the ladder in the Royal ot Club. Police showed the

711
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: jacket to Sue. She said she'd never seen it before,

712
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: but it turns out she had in fact, it actually

713
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: belonged to her, which is weird. Yeah. I don't know

714
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: why she didn't just own up to it. I don't

715
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: quite get that, but she said she'd never seen it before.

716
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: I also noticed that she had she had apparently injured

717
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: her her wrist in her thumb. She had a bandage

718
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: on her thumb, and her wrist had been strapped like

719
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: she's been sprains maybe like with an ace bandage kind

720
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: of strapped, I'm guessing is what that means. Yeah, Yeah,

721
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: And it turns out, remember I mentioned that photo was

722
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: taken up lunch the day before. Well, her hands were

723
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: visible on the photo and she didn't have any bandages

724
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: or strapping or anything. So something had happened. Something had happened,

725
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, over the course of that less than twenty

726
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: four hours to injure her, like maybe moving a body. Sorry. Uh.

727
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: She also at that time unprompted. And now remember this

728
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: is meeting the police down there. They've been she's been

729
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: told the day of the morning, I've just been told.

730
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: While the boats thinking, she shows up the police there

731
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: and she said that the four Winds have been boarded

732
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: by somebody two or three days before. And she said

733
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: she was concerned that drug smugglers are perhaps hitting drugs

734
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: on the boat. Yeah, yeah, there you go. She talked

735
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: about maybe I'm getting some sniffer dogs and sniffing the boat,

736
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: you know, to see if there were drugs on it.

737
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, no, I've never seen that drag before.

738
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: It's the drug that the drugs. It's gotta be the drugs.

739
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: Really faster them on drugs. But you should look at

740
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: some drugs. You should look at some drugs. Yeah, there

741
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: might be some drugs on there. I don't know. Smugglers, smugglers,

742
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: that's done it. Smugglers. Yeah, so yeah, I get those

743
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: dogs on my boat right now. Well, yeah, kids were

744
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: not advocating drugs, don't know. Yeah, I think at this point, um,

745
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: there was no suggestion to foul play even I mean,

746
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: they didn't even actually know that Bob was missing at

747
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: this time, and so you know, so she's weird. She's

748
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: like going on, Yeah, it was weird. She did. She

749
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: said some weird stuff. But people do well sure, I mean, yeah,

750
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: and that's not obviously a hanging offense at least unless

751
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: you say too much weird stuff and then it is.

752
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: But uh. Sue had another interview with the police on

753
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: February five, which would be ten days after Bob went missing.

754
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: She did repeat what she said about going to bondings

755
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: after leaving Bob, and then a month later she repeated

756
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: that claim again to police. But at this point they

757
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: had a chance to check out the CCTV and it's

758
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 1: closercuit television from the store, and they couldn't find her anywhere.

759
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: And they said, Jesus, we can't find you on any

760
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: CCTV from the store. And also, by the way, so

761
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: did you know the Bunny's closes at six pm that day?

762
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: That's weird because they only let me in. I was

763
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: the drugs. The drugs was not the drugs. I was

764
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: wondering where this nobody there. I was wondering why it

765
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: was Yeah, yeah, uh so. And then at that point

766
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: she said, well, she was pretty sure she'd gone there

767
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: that day and uh And then in that same interview,

768
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: she also repeated that she'd been home all night at

769
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: the night of January seven. Man, Okay, so I have

770
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 1: a really bad memory. And you guys know, I don't

771
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: think I have even this bad of a memory. I mean,

772
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: maybe like a year ye, but a day before, yeah,

773
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: day before like, I don't know what I did a

774
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: lot yesterday. I don't know. Maybe she was drunk, maybe

775
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: she had gotten Actually, okay, if she is under a

776
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: lot of stress, if this project is stressing around and

777
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: Bob is stressing around, and something else is and she

778
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: is just not handling things well. Plus I seem to

779
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: also remember her somewhere in the reading that she was

780
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: on some medication that they would have a side effect

781
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: of messing with your memory. Yeah, I think she was

782
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: on zan X or something like. Yeah. So it's it

783
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: is possible that she's did go to a store, and

784
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: it is possible that she went to a Bunnings, but

785
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: they may not have been in the same day, same trip,

786
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: and she may have just in the alphabet soup of

787
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: her memory on drugs. She may not. And I'm not

788
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: saying elicit trucks. I'm saying, prescribe drugs because the side effects.

789
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: She might have thought that she was telling them the truth.

790
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's one of those things with

791
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: memory when you recall it and you say this is

792
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: you rewrite it and you seen it, and so she

793
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: may have inadvertently st story. Well, yeah, she might have.

794
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what a lot of people are saying.

795
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: And they're saying that she might have it could just

796
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: be misremembering something. Yeah, it seems like you might say

797
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: to them, like, you know what, I know, this sounds

798
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,479
Speaker 1: really suspicious. I'm on, you know, some drugs. I'm happy

799
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: to like my doctor can talk to you about the

800
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: side effects. But she may not with her memory though. Well, yeah,

801
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: I mean that's true. She made she made her away

802
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: where this is a This is a good you know,

803
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: good murder tips for all your potential murderers out there

804
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: is don't don't ever give the police too much, you know,

805
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: to give him the barare minimum? They say, well, where

806
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: were you yesterday? Well, I saw Bob and then I

807
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: wanted and then I went home. And then later on

808
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: they saying, well we kind of county being home with

809
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, always say oh, well I did stop at

810
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: the store for a little while on the way home,

811
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and that's nothing. That's not suspicious. I mean if I go,

812
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, and so anyway, just the murder tip there, um,

813
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: good job, Joe, Yeah, I know where were we? So

814
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: she she was she had talked to the police. Uh,

815
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: this is you know, again, like a month and a

816
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: half I think after the disappearance, around this time, the

817
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: police also talked to Sue's daughter. She had two daughters,

818
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: as I said, and they showed her a picture of

819
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: a car which looked just like Sue's car, and they said, well,

820
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: this voter app was taken right down by the Royal

821
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: Yacht Club on twelve fifteen am, the night of the murder.

822
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: Is that a your mother's car? And they and they said, well,

823
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: I guess, And well they must have talked to Sue

824
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: about this, because is right after that her story started

825
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: to change. Yeah, a few days after that she told

826
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: remember and and Sanchez, Bob's daughter on the phone with

827
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: Terrist said she she that night, the night of the disappearance,

828
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: that she had been worried about Bob out there in

829
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: the boat by himself, and so she got in the

830
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: car and drove down to the water to look at

831
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: the boat, and then she drove back home just like

832
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: gaze Longing Lanes. Just I don't know what she expected

833
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: to see, like, you know, because well, yeah, it was Yeah,

834
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: maybe she expected to see the boat in flames or

835
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: something like that. I'm not sure. But that bomb she planted, yeah,

836
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: or that I hadn't gone off. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and

837
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: then not long after I marched thirteen, she was interviewed

838
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: by Felicity Ogilvie, who was a reporter for ABC, which

839
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: is what Australian broadcasting corporation. I think sounds good, Yeah,

840
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: and she told her a similar story about change, you know,

841
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: about not staying home all night, getting in the car,

842
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: driving down to check on Bob. Felicity passed this on

843
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: to the police. This was the first time police had

844
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: heard this, you know everything, you know, she had always

845
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: told them that she was home all night, so obviously

846
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: that that got their interest. Uh. Then markye, she had

847
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: a phone conversation with an Sanchez again, and this time

848
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: she said that she had driven down to Marieville Esplanade again,

849
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: the street right outside the Royal Yacht Club and left

850
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: the car there and that was late that night, left

851
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: the car there and walked home for exercise. She didn't

852
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: changed the story again a little bit, and then May

853
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: five police interviewed her again and she told them that

854
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: she had actually been mixed up about time. She was

855
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: actually on the four wins later than she had thought

856
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: with Bob. And then she said after that she she

857
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: went to shore. He left her car parked on Marieville

858
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: Esplanade or maybe Margaret Street, and walked home because she

859
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: wanted the exercise. And then later that night she said

860
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: she decided she she should go get the car and

861
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: bring it home. And so that was again, I don't

862
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: know how late at some point, so she walks down

863
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: again a two mile walk from her house. She walks

864
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: down to the waterfront, and when she got to the waterfront,

865
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: she realized she brought the wrong keys, and so she

866
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: didn't have the car keys. So she turned around and

867
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: walked back home, and she got the correct car keys

868
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: and walked back down to the waterfront. She definitely hit

869
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: her step goal for the day, didn't Yeah, yeah, we're

870
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: talking like, yeah, six miles there and I and looking,

871
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: what's the original two miles she walked home without the

872
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: car from so that's told about eight miles walking a day. Yeah,

873
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: that's pretty good, she was. That's not bad at all. Yeah,

874
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: some people walk. Oh no, I mean, I'm not saying

875
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: that I haven't walked eight miles in a day. I'm

876
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: just saying that that's usually usually when I go from

877
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: my six mile highs, I do it in the daylight. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

878
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: so this would have been late at night, right, Yeah,

879
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: very late at night. Remember she was on the phone

880
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: with Richard King till ten, so yeah, so it would

881
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: have been at least yeah after that. So, so she

882
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: finally succeeds in coming down there with the right keys

883
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: and uh, and she got the car. Then she drove

884
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: north and you can see this on on Google Earth

885
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: if you look at it. She drove north as a

886
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: jet an. They're just not far north to the Art

887
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: Club and there's some some metal sheds out there where

888
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: there's a rowing club. And drove out onto the jetty

889
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: to the end and walked down to the end of

890
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: the jetty to look across to the boat and see

891
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: it and just to check on Bob. And who knows,

892
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: maybe she was like jealous. She thought Bob might be

893
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: partying or something like that. She was looking for her

894
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: like bright lights and loud rock music or something like that.

895
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: But she did a shrimp on the Barbie rock and

896
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: roll tunes. Yeah, so she looked out to see if

897
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: what was going on with Bob. Couldn't see anything because

898
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: it was pitch black because it was night. Yeah, it

899
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: was night. And then she went yeah, and then in

900
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: that same interview, the police asked her about the red

901
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: jacket again and they said, they said, you know, I

902
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,479
Speaker 1: don't know if they've actually pulled it out and showed

903
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: it to her, just mentioned it to her. They said, well,

904
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: you remember the red jacket that you said you'd never

905
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: seen before. What we tested it for DNA. Your DNA

906
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: is all over it, yea. So she admitted it was

907
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: her jacket. And and then okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,

908
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: what's so incriminating about the jacket other than they found

909
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: it and she lied about it. Yeah, nothing, really, I

910
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: don't Yeah, I mean, it's just strange that she lied

911
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: about it. I'm just making sure I'm clarifying that there

912
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: wasn't something on it wed her. I guess I should say.

913
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: The other The only other thing that was incriminating about

914
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: it was that Sue had said she left in mid afternoon.

915
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: She left the yacht and went the buns and then

916
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 1: went home, and the person who lived in the home

917
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: at to Margaret Street found it early in the morning.

918
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: He said when he came home at night, and he

919
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: didn't I'm not sure exactly what time that night the

920
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: jacket was not there, So sometime in the night and

921
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: the jacket winds up on this wall, and so okay,

922
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: that's what that's the significance of the whole thing. Yeah,

923
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: you know. And also the denial, frankly never looks good

924
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: to police. So none of this is looking good for

925
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: when she goes card. No, no, it doesn't look it

926
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: doesn't look that gray. Yeah. And that trial, Yeah, they

927
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: did go to trial. Things didn't get better. Um. And

928
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: so remember what I just said, when she after she'd

929
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: got in the car, she's driven to the end of

930
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: the jetty to look at the four Winds and check

931
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: out Bob. Well, it turns out there was somebody else

932
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: on that jetty that night. His name was John Hughes,

933
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: and he testified that he didn't see anybody else out

934
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: there and said, sus that she'd driven out to the

935
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: end of the pier or the le jetty in her

936
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: car would be pretty hard to miss. That would be

937
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: kind of hard to miss. Yeah, And he was also

938
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: testified he did see a woman or somebody who looked

939
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: like a woman in an inflatable dinghy with an outboard

940
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: motor heading northeast from the Royal Yacht Club and in

941
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: the general direction of the Four Winds and that was

942
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: about between eleven thirty and maybe twelve that night, and

943
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: so so that's not so point now. And then also

944
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: the police, as I said, interviewed everybody that Sue knew

945
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: and suing Bob knew, and they happened to track down

946
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: this guy at one of the sailors, Peter Stevenson, the

947
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: guy helped bring the boat to where they yeah. One

948
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: of that guy. He testified that Sue, when they were

949
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: on the trip, told him that her relationship with Bob

950
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: had been strained and that it was basically over and

951
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: it had been over for some time. He also said

952
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: that when he arrived in Hobart and Bob met them,

953
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: apparently approached to assume maybe wanting to hug her or

954
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: something like that, she just basically kind of stood back

955
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: from it and ignored him. Was not terribly it was

956
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: not warm towards him at all. So again that doesn't

957
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: prove anything. It just proves that they were fighting. Yeah,

958
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a very normal thing for couples to do. Well,

959
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: it is, but they've been apart for quite a while.

960
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't know how long it takes to sail from

961
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: Queensland down down to Tasmania. I would think it would

962
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: take a while. I think think like a week anyway,

963
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: something like that. But listen, if if something gets in

964
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: somebody's you know, they got a burr under their saddle

965
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: and they are pissed at you about something and they've

966
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: had a week to stew on it by themselves, and

967
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: then you show up, Yeah, maybe they're not gonna welcome

968
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: you with open arms. Yeah it could be. I mean,

969
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: this's just this is all not necessarily proof of anything

970
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: like that. You know, just there was some tension between them.

971
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: But I don't know what other what more testimony they had.

972
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: They had son Tim chappell Uh He testified that he'd

973
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: been with Bob and Sue in the Four Wins twice

974
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: in the month before the murder, and he said the

975
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: tension between them was so thick that you could cut

976
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: it with a knife, and said have made him uncomfortable.

977
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: And then he also said that Sue told him in

978
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: January seven again, this is like right after Bob disappeared,

979
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: for our wins have been broken into twice in Hobart,

980
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: and Tim said he was surprised because he hadn't heard

981
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: anything about this before. And I got the impression that

982
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: Tim actually had a fairly close relationship with his dad

983
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: and and his dad probably would have mentioned something too,

984
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: and that's why he felt surprised by it. And she actually,

985
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean as far as all the break in she

986
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Sue it said that it had been broken into.

987
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: They gott have been broken into up in Queensland. Later

988
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: on she denied that she had ever said that. She

989
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: said and and and so her statements on that, and

990
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: that's why there's a lot of statement she made about

991
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. I'm not talking too much about that because

992
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: she was all over the place on that. And there's

993
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: this is again another one of those stories where there's

994
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: so many confu lifting accounts, especially when they come from

995
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: that one person, that it's hard to cover them all

996
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: because you just it becomes jibber jabber. Yeah, it's hard

997
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: to follow because as I did this, and I did that,

998
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: I did this, and I did that, I did this

999
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 1: anoint and uh, yeah, the whole the whole break in thing. Yeah,

1000
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: and I'm and there were there were a few other

1001
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: testimonies to the fact that she had said that the

1002
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: relationship was over. I'm not going to name names, are

1003
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: going to do deeply at an except for one guy, uh,

1004
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: a former friend and I think my former friend. I

1005
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: don't think they had a following up, but they just

1006
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: sort of like just stopped hanging out, lost track of

1007
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: each other. But this guy's name was Philip Triffint. Last

1008
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: name reminds me have Triffid. But he used to be

1009
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: buddies with them, and he testified that in the nineties

1010
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: I think this is nineties six or nineties seven, he

1011
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: was on Sue's bow. This is about that she on

1012
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: prior to the four winds, and they were out. She

1013
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: asked him to help her take her brother Patrick out

1014
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: to see and drown him. Yeah. Apparently there's some dispute

1015
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: between Sue and Patrick over her mother's property and so

1016
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: so I just planned to way Patrick downward the toolbox

1017
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: and send him up to Davy Jones locker. Uh. And

1018
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: then her idea was that that Philip Trippitt would then

1019
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: take the boat closer to shore and sink it after

1020
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: she had gone ashore in the digging. And then she's

1021
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: he said, he testified in court she showed him how

1022
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: they could sink the boat by using the bilge pump,

1023
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: and that that that would be another way to I

1024
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: mean besides just shutting it off, you could actually reversese

1025
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: reverse it. So did he mention if they if she

1026
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 1: came up and explained this entire plan over a case

1027
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: of Foster's. I've assuming they were on a boat. I'm

1028
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: assuming there were a few beers involved. Well that's what

1029
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: you know. It's like you sit around and you you

1030
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: can talk. I mean, if you got nothing to do

1031
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: but talk for days, you can come up with some

1032
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: wild stuff going, especially if you're boozing it up. Sure,

1033
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean if if they put me on

1034
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: trial and murder and all the people that they could

1035
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: drag in to talk about, how many times did Joe

1036
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: talk about murder with you? Well quite a few times. Two. Yeah,

1037
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: and so yeah, it would look good for me. That's

1038
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: why I got to stay out of that whole thing. Yeah,

1039
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know why, but Philip Triffic, I don't

1040
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: know why I didn't agree with this point to this plan.

1041
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: And maybe it was a part about him sinking the

1042
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,959
Speaker 1: boat after she'd taken off with the lifeboat, like, because

1043
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: that was her plan. You sink the boat while I'm

1044
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: going to shore in the dighy. So apparently you hang

1045
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: out on the sinking boat. Yeah, that never came to it.

1046
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: Maybe he was a good swimmer, I don't know, but

1047
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: he also testified this not too long after that, she

1048
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: he ensued had another conversation at her home, and Sue

1049
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 1: said that she wanted to do a similar thing is

1050
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: she talked about with her brother Patrick before, except she

1051
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: wanted to do what she wanted to do it with

1052
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 1: Bob and she wanted to wrap him in chicken wire

1053
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: instead of you know, doing the whole I don't know

1054
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: why chicken wire, but maybe this is why Philip didn't

1055
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: want to be friends with her, because she just kept

1056
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: being like, these are all the ways I'm going to

1057
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: murder the people around me. And he was like, maybe

1058
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: I shouldn't, Maybe I don't need yeah, yeah, And I

1059
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: said he's like thinking, like, well, when I'm not around

1060
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: she talked about murdering me, I wonder, I don't mean

1061
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: this kind of negative? Do I want or maybe it?

1062
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: Do I want to be voting with this person out

1063
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: in the ocean, Maybe not not? Don't turn your back

1064
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: on her anyway? Well, anyway, so that was that didn't

1065
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: look so good. Of course that's not just positive, but

1066
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: in the you know, when you look at all the

1067
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: other things that people are saying. Sue said to them, well,

1068
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't look so good. And then could have just

1069
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: been a generally unpleasant person. I mean it's completely possible. Yeah, yeah, probably,

1070
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: But well, anyway, long story short, Sue was convicted and

1071
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: sent to the Pokey for murder based on a very

1072
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: circumstantial case, and of course her family and friends began

1073
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: to movement to exonerate her and get her sprung from prison. Again,

1074
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: as as we have already said, the case against her

1075
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: wasn't really air tight. There was nobody, no murder weapon.

1076
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: There was that DNA evidence showing to other people have

1077
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: been in the boat. Uh. And they also stressed, as

1078
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: as we've already talked about, that are changing stories might

1079
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 1: have been the result of a poor memory and stress

1080
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: and drug use. Um. And then there were also there

1081
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: are three witnesses who said they saw a great dinghy

1082
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: saw alongside the four winds that day, of course, and

1083
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: and the four winds dinghy is white. So and they

1084
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: said they saw a great dinghy. Yeah, that's that's varying

1085
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: graves of varying shades of white distance. That is the deal,

1086
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: is that? Yeah? And certain especially if it's in the

1087
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: shade and stuff like that on a sunny day, I

1088
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: don't put a whole lot of stock in it. It

1089
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: was a great yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, and so

1090
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: that's uh. But but then and I also mentioned that

1091
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: thing about the Victoria Police doing their review and they're

1092
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: they're they're thinking that the pots the positive Megan Boss's

1093
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 1: DNA was by direct contact and not transference. And they

1094
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: also said that they felt that it would have been

1095
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: quote mechanically impossible for the African to have winch the

1096
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: deceased in the manner described by police unquote, so that

1097
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: was their considered opinion. They didn't think it was possible

1098
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: for her to get that body out of the out

1099
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: of the cabinet into the dinghy, not pursue anyway, that's

1100
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: they said. And then last of all, there was a

1101
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: local sailor whose name I can't remember now. I saw

1102
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: a picture of him. Yeah, yeah, Well the picture of

1103
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: him was somewhat older picture where he had long shoulder

1104
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: length hair, and he came out after after the trial,

1105
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: after the trial and conviction and said, well, I was

1106
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: I was out of my digging that night and I

1107
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: have my hair was down to my shoulders. Maybe he

1108
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: saw John Hughes on the jetty at the rowing sheds,

1109
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: saw me and not Sue. He could have been he

1110
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: saw me and saying you're going in the general direction

1111
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: of a boat is a pretty wide swath of directions.

1112
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: So it is, it is so. So these are some

1113
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: of the various things that have made people think that, well,

1114
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: maybe Sue's case deserves another look. And it has had

1115
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: another look or two. Again, there's been appeals and the

1116
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: more appeals, the most recent one I think was the

1117
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: Supreme the Australian Supreme Court. So this is what we

1118
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: call controversy uh as and as a that it's gotten

1119
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: huge coverage in Australia. Uh And of course there's that

1120
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: award I think I mentioned earlier. Yeah, and and the billboard, Yeah,

1121
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: and the billboard. Uh And in this latest appeal earlier

1122
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: in this year, Sees defense lawyers promised he would be

1123
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: some startling, new fresh evidence. And it is because Megan

1124
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: Voss remember her has returned. Oh yeah, that girl. But

1125
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: before we talk about that, let's take a break. You

1126
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: wake up one morning and realize your thirty or forty

1127
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: or fifty, you feel bloated and chubby, from over indulging

1128
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: like your twenty one again, you promise yourself that this

1129
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: year is the year you're going to do something about it.

1130
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: Why not make things easier on yourself with a customized

1131
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1134
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1135
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1140
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1143
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1144
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: own mix today. Because motivation is hard enough. And we're

1145
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: back in April two thousand seventeen, which is just mere

1146
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: months ago. Megan Voss finally fessed up. She signed a

1147
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: statement admitting that on the night of January nine, she

1148
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: was indeed on board the Four Wins with two unnamed

1149
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: men um. And this obviously is a game changer. I mean,

1150
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: all the other previous appeals, they never really brought any startling,

1151
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 1: fresh new evidence. They're really just fighting what they considered

1152
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. Yeah, essentially, just they keep you going holes

1153
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 1: in the case. Yeah, trying to you know, just saying, hey,

1154
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: this guy had long hair that night and he said

1155
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: he was out in his boat. Yeah, as on other things, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1156
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: But this was really a game changer. But then in fall,

1157
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: this is just a couple of months ago, it was

1158
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: time for Megan. And obviously, by the way, if you're

1159
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: listening to year two thousand and fifty seven, well it

1160
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: was fifty years ago. But yeah, for us from this standpoint.

1161
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: But when it was time for Megan to take the stand,

1162
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: she recanted her story. She said she had been coerced

1163
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: in as signing the statement about being on the Four Winds.

1164
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: And it turns out that her boyfriend was a biker

1165
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: name Sharky, great name. Yeah, And I think I'm going

1166
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: to change mind to that. Huh. And he has a

1167
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: man remember the Devil's Henchman Motorcycle Club. That's a fun name. Yeah. Her,

1168
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: this boyfriend, Sharkey, had another girlfriend. Yeah we're steppy. Yeah right,

1169
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: good relationship. I know, I know these are these are

1170
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: wonderful people that This other girlfriend's name is Karen Kief.

1171
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: Karen did some time in prison turns auctually. She was

1172
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: in the same prisons as Sue Neil Fraser. Yeah. Yeah,

1173
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: and Karen seems to have hatched a scheme to collect

1174
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: that forty dollar reward plus some other money. There was

1175
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: talking the press about a total total amount of dollars

1176
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: in Australia. Yeah, yeah, where come from. Well, I'm not

1177
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: totally sure about I'm not and I'm not I'm not

1178
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: saying that Sue promised the too or anything like that.

1179
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: Maybe somebody else I had no idea exactly promised her

1180
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: this kind of private source that we don't know about.

1181
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, exactly. And uh, but anyway, we're talking

1182
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: about it an overall amount of you know, a substantial

1183
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: amount of money, yeah, at least in Australia. But the

1184
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: scheme involved getting Meg into confess involvement in the crime,

1185
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: which would tend to make, you know, make it possible

1186
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: to maybe get Sue out of prison. But it turns

1187
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: out when Megan recanted, she said she had been coerced.

1188
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: She said that she was quote threatened to be put

1189
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: in the boot of a car over that piece of

1190
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: paper unquote. Yeah. That doesn't sound like fun to me. No,

1191
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: I assume I assume what was meant by that is

1192
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: putting the boot of a card like dead, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

1193
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: and so yeah, So, so it turns out that was

1194
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: a big fizzle. That piece of fresh evidence is kind

1195
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: of out the window. And as for Karen O'Keefe, if

1196
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: you're wondering, she and a couple of other people, one

1197
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: of them was an attorney, have been charged with quote,

1198
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: perverting the course of justice unquote. So they're in more

1199
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: trouble now. Oh yeah, I mean they understand. Courts really

1200
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: don't like it when you pull this kind of Yeah.

1201
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: Sudor supporters have also brought in a guy named Paul

1202
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: Row that's w. R. O E, who turns out was

1203
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: living on his boat in Sandy Bay, which is right

1204
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: about there and a nearby winds. Yeah, and it turns out,

1205
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: Paul has a violent criminal past, and he's been accused

1206
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: by some people of being a serial killer. And yeah,

1207
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: that's well, some people have said he was. He would

1208
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: be a very credible suspect as a killer of Bob,

1209
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: so you know, and obviously they seem to be basically

1210
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: throwing everything they can at the wall seeing if anything

1211
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,479
Speaker 1: will stick. Yeah, Paul Rose says he never met Sue

1212
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: or Bob. He says he's not a serial killer. In fact,

1213
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: he says he's going to Suepie people over that. Yeah,

1214
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: he had a big the police DNA it was in

1215
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. I think they probably did question everybody

1216
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: who was anywhere nearby and so he did give them

1217
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. Uh, and sample didn't match anything having to

1218
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: do with the crime. And as for the criminal past,

1219
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: Rose says, it was just youthful exuberance, you know, like

1220
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, you use a little bar fights and stabbings

1221
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: act something here. Yeah, he did that kind of stuff.

1222
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: He did that kind of a sketchy youth you know. Sorry,

1223
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: as I know, there there is no evidence to incriminate

1224
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: him in Paul Rowin in Bob's death in any way.

1225
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: So the latest, the latest appeal to free Sue appears

1226
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: to have fizzled. Um, kind of like circling the drain.

1227
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: I think this might be it as far as trying

1228
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: to get our prison. But nonetheless, opinion down under is

1229
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: still sharper divide as to whether Sue actually did the

1230
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: deed or not. So the question is is who murdered

1231
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: or at least who disappeared Bob Chappel. Great question, yea,

1232
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: some how we're not in theories yet, Well just in

1233
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: series no moment here, Yeah, I know, let's toss out

1234
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: some series here. So who did it? What happened? Okay? Uh?

1235
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: Number one the number one? No particular order here, But

1236
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: one popular theory is that the Tasmanian Devil got him. Yeah,

1237
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: A lot of people believe that Bob was a victim

1238
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: of a random Tasmanian Devil attack. A lot a strick

1239
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: after that, s say a lot, I mean the number

1240
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: between zero and five thousand. Did the Tasmanian Devil think

1241
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: that he was bugs Bunny and therefore had to attack him,

1242
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: because that's the only reason that Tasmanian Devil ever kills

1243
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: and the Warner Brother cartoons. You know, it could be

1244
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: like Mr. Direction, Maybe Susan and then we suit tapped

1245
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: about so to say, hey, hey, bugs is on that boat?

1246
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is obviously not real. No, no,

1247
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get this any more oxygen because

1248
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: I actually think the Tasmanian Devil's get kind of an

1249
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: unfair wrap. They're actually very cute little animals and they

1250
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: are totally harmless when they're not trying to murder you

1251
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: and their cousins of chupies. So we gotta be nice

1252
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: to actually, and I couldn't do this without going out

1253
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: in the web and looking at some Tasmanian devil pictures.

1254
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: And they are pretty cute when they're not hissing and

1255
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: screaming with their mouths open at you Withdrew coming out. Yeah,

1256
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: and they do have large they're the Australian raccoon. Yeah,

1257
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: they kind of are. But yeah, when they're not doing that,

1258
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: they're kind of cute looking. So okay, so much for

1259
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: that good jump. By the way, Devon for not freaking

1260
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: out of the mention of a raccoon than you. Is

1261
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 1: this this is therapy is working? Yeah? Yeah, it's like

1262
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: it's like exposure therapy, exposure exactly. Yeah, alright, no, our

1263
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,919
Speaker 1: next theory, which she's sleep. Yeah, I don't think she cares.

1264
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: She's actually she's she's staring at her phone and not

1265
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: actually reacting at That's not true, Yeah, staring at the

1266
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: script and not reacting. Just may next the next sory,

1267
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: Bob chap will left to start a new life, pausing

1268
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: all of their frames Sue on his way out the door. Yeah, No,

1269
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: that would have been. That would because that would have

1270
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: meant Bob like giving up all of his retirement, just

1271
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: going off to start a new life and living in

1272
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: poverty somewhere. So it's ridiculous. Yeah. Another possibility is maybe

1273
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: Bob committed suicide and either widdingly or not incriminated Sue

1274
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, which I'd say was well done, sir,

1275
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: but it seems to Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think so. Yeah,

1276
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: no evidence for that. You know, they probably would have

1277
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: found his body, Yeah, because they did, as I mentioned,

1278
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: scour the river pretty well, especially where the boat was. Okay,

1279
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: so the suicide thing is uh so. Another one is

1280
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: maybe Bob died accidentally and as she discovers his discovers

1281
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: him dead, decides to ditch the body. Thinking, well, now

1282
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: since I've talked to so many people about the possibility

1283
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: of murdering Bob that he's dead on the boat. Maybe

1284
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: does look kind of bad. Maybe I should just ditch

1285
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: the body. Yeah, maybe me dumping the body in the

1286
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: exact way I discussed the murdering people sounds like a

1287
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: better idea. It wasn't exactly used to fire, extinguish or not.

1288
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: This is very dumb to me because if indeed she

1289
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: had found him dead in some form, I don't care

1290
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: whether it was he accidentally stuck a fork in his

1291
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: own head or he drowned in an inch of water

1292
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: in the bottom of the boat. If she immediately took

1293
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: the dinghy, I'm guessing they didn't have a cell phone,

1294
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: so she immediately went back to the marina. She actually

1295
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: called the cops. She actually had her cell phone on

1296
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: her on the odd when she visited Bob that afternoon. Okay,

1297
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: so well, I'm just saying, but even even if she

1298
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: didn't have a phone on her and she had had

1299
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: to go make the call, nobody would have said, huh,

1300
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: why did you leave, like it would it wouldn't have

1301
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: looked weird as weird as just the body disappearing, not

1302
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: at all, not at all. So, I mean, that's obviously

1303
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: a ridiculous idea, but you know, I don't know how

1304
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: much our listeners love to hear theories series and lots

1305
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: of series, so we'll throw all all out there. Oh yeah,

1306
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: none of them are sicking though. That's kind of like

1307
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: the Freedom the Free Sue team. You know, they're like,

1308
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: just keep throwing stuff at the wall and it seems

1309
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: to stick. You know. Another theory, and this is a

1310
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: popular theory. I'm not lying now that somebody other than

1311
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: Sue murdered Bob, and that's what a lot of people believe.

1312
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: Of course, the presidence of two sets of d n

1313
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: A on the boat, one of which is unknown, would

1314
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: suggest that maybe this is kind of possible. Well, then

1315
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: there's a there this. This would lend credibility to the

1316
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: odd things like the dinghy being randomly floating loose and

1317
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah. So yeah, so somebody stole the dinghy,

1318
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: went out to the boat, murder Bob and then took

1319
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: it back to shore and didn't bother to tie it up,

1320
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: and didn't bother to clean up the blood in the bottom,

1321
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: because why would you? But why would you care? It's

1322
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: not your dinghy and you know, you don't care, so

1323
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, okay. But on the other hand, of course,

1324
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: of Sued used to dinghy, it's conceivable she could have

1325
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: left it untied expect to get to drift out to

1326
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: see so you know that. So the fact that the

1327
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: dinghy was untied does not prove that somebody other than

1328
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: Sue took the She would have to be amazingly unaware

1329
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: of the way that water moves inside of a marina

1330
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: to think that, yeah, and ties and all that good stuff. Yeah,

1331
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, yeah, she may have been

1332
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: amazing amazingly unaware. I don't know. I mean, but I've

1333
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: seen things untied in the waterfront here in Portland at

1334
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: the marina that you and I used to go to

1335
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: all the time, and it was exceedingly difficult for things

1336
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: to get out, And it seems so simple, and yet

1337
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 1: stuff would just bounce around in there and never go away. Yeah,

1338
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: that's because there's a decent sized current, and that's in

1339
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: an eddie. I mean, it's and I could totally see

1340
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: the Royal Yoch Club being in an eddie because it

1341
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: is kind of been a dimple in the coast. Yeah.

1342
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 1: But my my point is that dinghy floats on top

1343
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: of the water, so it's gonna be hard to find

1344
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: that one scare two little escape points. One thing I

1345
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: will say is that when I was googling other things

1346
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 1: that will light looming all up, bleach is one of

1347
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: the things that will light looming all up. So it's

1348
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: possible that she did bleach out the bottom of the dinghy,

1349
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: thinking well, they'll you know, they won't find any blood

1350
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: in it because it will have been cleaned, but if

1351
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: they find it floating, it will make it look more

1352
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 1: like somebody who didn't really care about it, you know,

1353
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: just threw it away or whatever. And then they did

1354
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: test it for women all and she was like, oh dang. Conversely, though,

1355
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: if if that dinghy came with the boat and they

1356
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: bought the boat used and the boat was not in

1357
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: the greatest of shape, that dinghy may not have been

1358
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: in the greatest of shape, and somebody might have said, ah,

1359
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: it's a white dinghy and the interior is brown, maybe

1360
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: I should bleach it and see if I could clean it.

1361
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean, there's not a million ways that somebody else

1362
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: could have been murdered in the dinghy too. I mean, realistically,

1363
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: it could be somebody. I don't know how long blood

1364
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: sticks around to you know, light looming all up. But

1365
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how often you clean your dinghy either.

1366
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: I don't. I wouldn't clean it. It's on an individual basis.

1367
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: But it is weird. I mean, you know, it's weird

1368
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: that there's two sets of DNA and that one of

1369
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: them is Megan Boss maybe but maybe not, but probably probably,

1370
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: But I guess I thought the point of like, even

1371
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, putting your boat at a yacht club is

1372
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: that like there's there's restricted access. It's like a gated

1373
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: community for your boat, so it's safe for people. You know,

1374
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: people like to break into boats and MA break into

1375
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: That's why people put him in locked marinas and stuff.

1376
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,759
Speaker 1: And so if her boat was tied up in the marina,

1377
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: would have been difficult to get to unless it was

1378
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 1: maybe somebody there was a serial killer, like you know,

1379
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: living or at least using the marina, could have gone

1380
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: out dext style, Yeah exactly, you know, and you had

1381
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: extra on the boat there you go, yeah with Dexter. Yeah,

1382
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: it could have been Dexter down. Yeah, what's Australian for Dexter?

1383
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: What's up? What's dexter upside down. Yeah, that's your answer. Yeah,

1384
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: it's like, no, I'm not gonna say it, Rhett Okay

1385
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: now yeah, now it's too much of a tongue twister.

1386
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: Of course, if somebody else, uh, if somebody else, say,

1387
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 1: had had had access to the club and they stole

1388
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: the dinghy and took it out to the boat killed Bob,

1389
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: then that renders the whole Megan Boss sub theory kind

1390
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: of moot anyway, But then it still doesn't totally pointless

1391
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: explain why her DNA was there. But sure, no it doesn't.

1392
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking it was Megan. You know, it could

1393
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: just possibly be she didn't want to admit to this,

1394
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: but it might just be that she and some of

1395
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: her friends at some point got their hands on a

1396
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 1: small boat decided to go out because everyone and if

1397
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 1: you look at the area all I don't know if

1398
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: it's the same case in two thousand nine as it

1399
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: is now, but literally I counted the boats out There

1400
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: were like sixty large boats anchored off the yacht club

1401
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: when that boat it was taken, and so I could

1402
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: totally see some some near Dowell types that they get

1403
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 1: their hands on the boat going out there. Some night

1404
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: and just you know, going from boat to boat, finding

1405
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: boats that are unoccupied, seeing if they can break in

1406
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 1: and steal stuff stuff. Yeah, maybe she, you know, maybe

1407
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 1: she at some point, you know, pull she had her

1408
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: friends pulled alongside that boat, and she reached out and

1409
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: grabbed it, you know, and and and maybe they heard

1410
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: Bob down below or whatever and just took off. I

1411
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: don't know, who knows. So it could be that she

1412
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: actually did was on the boat or touch the boat

1413
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: or something. I mean, who knows. But as far as

1414
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: somebody else doing it, there's a couple of problems with this.

1415
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: Like I just said, there are a lots of yachts

1416
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: anchored there. All those boats are gonna have tenders for

1417
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: getting to shore with a big chunk of those boats

1418
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: would have had their tenders tied up in the Royal

1419
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: Yacht Club, and the club also would have had other

1420
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: small boats to steal for non nautical types tenders or

1421
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: the dinghy. Yeah, the tenders are the dingy. Yeah yeah,

1422
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: the tender is the thing you used to get to shore.

1423
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, but yeah, yeah, but people keep asking

1424
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: for you to use all those nautical terms and losing them.

1425
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: Body talk. Um, But so there's all these small boats

1426
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: to steal in this in this marina. It's kind of

1427
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: an amazing coincidence. It's somebody intending to board and go

1428
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: out to the Four Winds and commit murder, robbery. Whatever

1429
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: happened to take the same exact tender belonging to that

1430
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: same exact boat out of the marina. That's really remarkable.

1431
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: And as you were saying, you know, wasn't marked the

1432
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: best I can tell, Like I said, I've seen two

1433
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: pictures of it, and I haven't seen it from every

1434
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 1: single angle, but I didn't see any markings on it

1435
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 1: that's indicated it was belonged to the Four Winds. But

1436
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: maybe her sus knots were really easy to actually get off.

1437
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: People actually used a cable lock. Yeah, maybe maybe maybe

1438
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: marks were extra special, crappy. That's a good three square

1439
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 1: knots that worked. Yeah, of course, And you could argue

1440
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: that if they did something. I know it was like

1441
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: if it was marked the Four Winds. Maybe somebody says, Okay,

1442
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: there's a boat out there called Four Winds. This must

1443
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: be the cruise ashore, and so we'll take the dinghy

1444
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 1: out there because we know that since they're ashore the

1445
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: boats empty, we can go rob it. But if there's

1446
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 1: anywhere from twenty to sixty boats out there, they they

1447
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 1: got that's gonna take a while, unless they've really been

1448
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: watching what's super innoculars and they've got them all marked

1449
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: or something like that, which which speaks to a grander,

1450
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: larger conspiracy slash. Exactly. The four Wins wasn't like the

1451
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: grandest boat that was there, right, I mean, because there

1452
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: would be something to be said of, that's the biggest

1453
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,560
Speaker 1: boat out there. We're going to that one. Yeah, you know,

1454
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was one of the larger ones. At

1455
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: three ft that's pretty decent size, but it wasn't like

1456
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: the biggest stuff. It's not a mega Yatt fifty three

1457
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 1: is not that enormous, but it's not I mean, maybe

1458
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: that was It's a substantial boat. Yeah, maybe that was

1459
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: just it is they thought, oh, yeah, this says for

1460
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: or you know whatever, and we're going to go out

1461
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: to that boat that's the biggest one, yeah and rob it.

1462
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: And then you know, midway through the robbery, Bob comes

1463
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: up and they're like, dang it, yeah exactly, so they

1464
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: hit him over the head with something and uh and

1465
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 1: of course, they don't know if they've killed him or not.

1466
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you don't know. Um, yeah, I was.

1467
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: I always love that in the movies when they cocked

1468
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: somebody out. You know, it's like, you know, and they're

1469
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: just always so assured that he's knocked out, and it's like,

1470
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you killed him, dude. They never even

1471
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: think about that. But they don't know Bob is alive

1472
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 1: or dead. And the sensible thing to do at this

1473
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: point is that, well, okay, we just hit this guy.

1474
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: We better get out of here. Let's go back to shore.

1475
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:48,759
Speaker 1: We'll burn the dinghy or whatever, get rid of the dinghy,

1476
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 1: and and hopefully his head injury will prevent him from

1477
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: remembering our faces. And and that's that. It sounds like

1478
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: a Liam Neeson movie. Yeah really, but I mean it

1479
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 1: really is a sensible thing to do. I mean, going,

1480
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, take his body and hauling it out way

1481
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: out towards the sea and dumping and stuff like that

1482
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: doesn't really make a lot of sense unless you're trying

1483
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 1: to hide the body. Well yeah, but I mean it's like,

1484
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: you know, if you're just doing a little robbery kind

1485
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 1: of thing, if you do happen to get little robbery

1486
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: thing you to say it. Look, you know, we had

1487
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 1: no intention of hurting anybody, you know, he just got

1488
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: kind of hit on the head, and nobody intended to

1489
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: hurt anybody. Yeah whatever, you know, I mean, it makes

1490
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: but but then what really doesn't make any sense just

1491
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 1: to get rid of the body and then trying to

1492
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: draw attention to the boat by trying to think it

1493
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: that doesn't really make sense for anybody to do that. Yeah,

1494
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a whole I mean, the motive

1495
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: thing here's it's weird. Yeah, it's it's very very loose. Yeah, yeah,

1496
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: I guess it's it's a plausible theory, but it doesn't

1497
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't really answer most of the questions I have. No,

1498
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't. And nobody has surfaced really with any kind

1499
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 1: of a motive to do it, unless it was somebody

1500
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: completely random, all right. So that leaves us with what

1501
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,879
Speaker 1: another p ability, which is that Sue Neil Fraser murdered

1502
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: Bob intentionally, intentionally and the evidence kind of looks that way.

1503
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: And I mean, to really is the one person who

1504
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: had a motive to sink the boat, which would be

1505
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: like you know, I might I think about a potential

1506
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: motive would have been would be it would have been

1507
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: Sue didn't want to be the one to discover, to

1508
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 1: discover the body or the the evidence of foul play

1509
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: or anything, So by sinking the vote or at least,

1510
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, sending it lower in the water, because she

1511
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: knows it's going to take that boat a long time

1512
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 1: to sink, you know, And so she does that and

1513
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 1: then knowing that somebody's probably going to notice and she'll

1514
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: be called down there and she can just you know,

1515
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:40,560
Speaker 1: show up and she won't be the first person on

1516
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 1: the murder scene. So you know, that's a possible motive.

1517
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, it's not rock solid, but

1518
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: the only motive I can think of a really sinking

1519
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:52,000
Speaker 1: the boat. I know that this sounds dumb with a boat,

1520
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: but it always seems like if you're going to destroy

1521
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: the evidence, burning the boat would be much more efficient

1522
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: in in destroying evidence than trying to sink it. Well,

1523
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: what I would have done if I would think like

1524
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: a kerosene landard or something like that, and you just

1525
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: push it over on a cushion and then you run

1526
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: and leave it's going to catch a fire, Well that

1527
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, I mean, you know, boats

1528
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: sink sometimes, and I don't know that there's a you know,

1529
01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: if you have insurance on it and your boat sinks

1530
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: and you get to claim insurance. I don't know that

1531
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 1: they're going to go in there and be like, oh, look,

1532
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: it looks like the three sabotage things are going to

1533
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: be like, wow, that sucks your boat. Song, here's the money.

1534
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 1: Somebody's going to investigate a sinking. They always do. It's

1535
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 1: like when airplanes crashed, somebody investigates it, even if it's

1536
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: a private craft. Right, But I don't know how how well, yeah,

1537
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:47,560
Speaker 1: how thorough it is or you know, I don't know

1538
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: boats well enough to know if you could tell, you know,

1539
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: if these certain things were sabotage necessarily or whatever. So

1540
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: I guess that's always my assumption with when people try

1541
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: to scuttle their boats by sinking them, is that it's

1542
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 1: like that's I mean, that's the easiest way to say, like,

1543
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if something happened to Thank, Yeah, you know,

1544
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: the bilge pump malfunctioned and it stopped pumping and you

1545
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: know it sank. Yeah, obviously you know, Sue didn't plan

1546
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: the crime as well as she could have if she

1547
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: did it. Of course, we don't know. Yeah, I would have.

1548
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: You know, if I had been her, I would have

1549
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: just I would just not bothered moving the body. I

1550
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 1: would have just you know, put some c for into

1551
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: the bottom of the hall on timers and then just

1552
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 1: taking it out to see and set the timers, jumping

1553
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 1: the dingy head back to shore, and the boat blows

1554
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: up and it sinks nice and quickly. You don't have

1555
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,800
Speaker 1: this hours and hours and hours of slowly sinking it

1556
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 1: just and then you just blame Kevin Spacey for the

1557
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:42,800
Speaker 1: whole thing. It's it's crazy. Yeah, So run through the

1558
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: official how this theory works. I mean we just kind

1559
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: of danced around it. But the prosecution, Yeah, I mean

1560
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: give give everybody what you've got here about why Sue

1561
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: would have done it or why it's beliefs. Why is

1562
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: she's a strong candidate. Yeah, she's a strong candidate because

1563
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,680
Speaker 1: she had a motive, financial motive. She's the only person

1564
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: that ever talked about killing Bob, and it was just

1565
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: numerous people testified that there was tension between them, that

1566
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: their relationship didn't seem to be that good. She was

1567
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:17,599
Speaker 1: very near the murder scene the night in question, um,

1568
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: and she tried to cover that up and she had

1569
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:26,640
Speaker 1: really kind of super questionable Yeah, well she did. I mean,

1570
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: for example, if she did indeed drive down there, take

1571
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: the dingy out, and and because the assumption is Bob

1572
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: was already dead, she goes out there later to get

1573
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: rid of the body, right and souse on she killed

1574
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 1: him early afternoon, early in the middle till late afternoon sometime,

1575
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: But well, I had to leave the body because it

1576
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: was still daylight and did the sun didn't set till

1577
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: eight pm? And so she couldn't get rid of the

1578
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: body until after dark. Yeah, And so so she goes

1579
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: back down now getting rid of the body's going to

1580
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: take her at least two three hours. And that meantime,

1581
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:06,799
Speaker 1: her car is parked right there on Marie bill Esplanade

1582
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: or maybe Margaret's Street. And so to account for that,

1583
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, there's one thing to say, Well, okay,

1584
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 1: I drove down there, looked walked over and looked out,

1585
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 1: came back. But how do you account for the fact

1586
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 1: if somebody springs up Because she had to become aware

1587
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 1: after they found this picture of her car, she had

1588
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 1: to become aware of perhaps other witnesses might come out

1589
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, I remember seeing that parked in front

1590
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: of my house for like four hours last day of

1591
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 1: the night. Whatever she becomes aware of, so she cooks

1592
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: up this story, which is, Okay, I walked all the

1593
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: way down there, I realized I'd forgotten the forgotten all

1594
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 1: the way back home, walked all the way back down

1595
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: and and that would account for the car being there

1596
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 1: for this very long period of time, parked in that

1597
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,600
Speaker 1: place where you know it shouldn't have been. Uh, And

1598
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:50,600
Speaker 1: that would that would be enough time to do what

1599
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: she intended to do, which is go move the body

1600
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: and get rid of it, which is why you always

1601
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 1: leave your cell phone at home and you use a

1602
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: bicycle to get to the crime scene. Yeah, I I

1603
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 1: time my cell phone to a raccoon's tail. In this case,

1604
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 1: it would have been a test mean sale, which is

1605
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: the yeah, well so what and what else is She's

1606
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: the one person who, if she needed to get to

1607
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 1: the Four Winds using the four Winds dinghy, would actually

1608
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 1: know where that dinghy belonging to the Four Winds was moored.

1609
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 1: And also the other thing is that if somebody else,

1610
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: like say used another boat um some other killer to

1611
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 1: go out to the four winds and commit Verton, which

1612
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: is possible, I guess. And why did somebody into the

1613
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: very same night somebody Untie sus dinghy and throw us

1614
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 1: the open side to cast to the drift. That's quite

1615
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: a major coincidence when you think about it, that yeah,

1616
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: that this all happened. And I don't think this crime

1617
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: was well planned. I mean, it's entirely possible. I think

1618
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 1: that it was a crime of passion, that they were

1619
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: having an argument. She picks up a blond object and

1620
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: just bashes Bob over the head with it because she's

1621
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 1: just she snaps and hits him. Didn't really actually go

1622
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 1: down there intending to murder him in cold blood. And

1623
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 1: the reason I think that is it's just not a

1624
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: well planned crime. I mean, the idea of murdering and

1625
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:07,679
Speaker 1: below decks, leaving all that blood evidence down there and everything,

1626
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: and having to go to the huge hassle of hauling

1627
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 1: his body up and getting it into that dinghy. I

1628
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: mean I would have if I had been her, I

1629
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 1: would have lured him into the dinging and then backed

1630
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 1: him over the head. I suspect I actually think she

1631
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:25,679
Speaker 1: might have actually hit him with the fire extinguisher. Actually,

1632
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, that would account for it being missing too.

1633
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:30,600
Speaker 1: It's a murder weapon and also you know, communithing to

1634
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,599
Speaker 1: weigh somebody down with. Yeah. Yeah, although you know again

1635
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: murder tip fire extinguishers even when they're heavy, they have

1636
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 1: a big old fat air bubble right in the middle

1637
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: of them. Don't use a fire extinguisher, use lead, just

1638
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 1: a cast iron something, yeah, because cast iron is so

1639
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 1: handy to layman to these days. Actually you can get

1640
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: check cast iron cheap, go out and craigslisted by a

1641
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: used weight set Olympic weight set, you know. And that's

1642
01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: and and there's just just dirt cheap and it's super

1643
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,480
Speaker 1: easy to move around in your ding, you to. Absolutely,

1644
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:03,600
Speaker 1: it takes up a lot less space than concrete, and

1645
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: unlike concrete, little bits of it don't crumble off, you know.

1646
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: And also it's a lot denser than concrete. Less point.

1647
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, cast iron all the way. Red bodies, Yeah,

1648
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 1: but Mr Universe and dump a body. Yeah. So here's

1649
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 1: and this is one of the things I do. I think,

1650
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 1: I think, well, how would I have done the crime?

1651
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: And that that's it again. First off, wait till after

1652
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,799
Speaker 1: right after dark, lure Bob into the dinghy by pretending

1653
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: not to be able to get it started or something

1654
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: hit him over the head. You've already got two hunder

1655
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 1: pounds of cast iron stashed at the bottom of the dinghy,

1656
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: So and you head on out towards see Tai Bob,

1657
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 1: to the to the dinghy and to the cast iron weights. Uh.

1658
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:43,560
Speaker 1: And then when you're far enough out towards see you

1659
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: puncture the dinging again. Put close to shore, puncture the

1660
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 1: dinghy so you can swim to shore, head to dangy

1661
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 1: towards deeper water and swim to shore. And then of

1662
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: course you've thoughtfully hid in the moped somewhere nearby to

1663
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: get you home. And wah huh. That's that's the way

1664
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:02,720
Speaker 1: I would have committed this murder, Sue. Obviously. It just

1665
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,640
Speaker 1: doesn't think about things quite the way I do think it.

1666
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 1: I think, Sue did it. I don't know what you guys,

1667
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 1: I think. Did I think? Well, listen, you know, I

1668
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 1: realized that we glossed over a theory in a theory,

1669
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 1: which is the Bob died by accident theory. So your

1670
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: your theory Bob died by accident. And then she tried

1671
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: to hide. It excludes the Bob died by accident and

1672
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: disappeared by accident and she's just a ding dong and

1673
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 1: got herself in trouble. I mean, if he's working on Okay, listen,

1674
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 1: I just thought about this because it just kind of

1675
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: one of those things that happens to me every four

1676
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: or five stories. It clicks, my brain turns on. If

1677
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 1: he's working on the boat, it's entirely possible that he

1678
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: could have hurt himself, which would have accounted for blood

1679
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: being sprayed around he's working on the boat, which would

1680
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 1: explain why carpet tiles are pulled up and ladders are

1681
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 1: loose and stuff like that. And we've also seemed to

1682
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 1: have agreed that Bob is a bit clumsy, because she

1683
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 1: says he's bad at getting off the boat, shed that

1684
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: other people contradicted that. Okay, but but maybe he's not

1685
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 1: the best semen in the world. And at this point

1686
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 1: he is bleeding and he runs up onto the top

1687
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: of the boat and falls off the boat. I mean,

1688
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that he is then literally swept out

1689
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 1: to see because he is outside of the marina. It's

1690
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 1: not as his body's gonna get trapped in underneath everything.

1691
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it is possible that she know that

1692
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: what she said those dumb as it is is the truth,

1693
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 1: and Bob hurt himself, sprayed blood all over, and then

1694
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 1: fell off the boat. I don't think that's really it,

1695
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: but it's possible, just like everything else we've talked about,

1696
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 1: except the Tasmanian devil, because that one's not right. You

1697
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:55,600
Speaker 1: don't like that one. I know it's not real. And

1698
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 1: I never spins over water. I don't even know if

1699
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: they I don't know if they swim either. To be honestly,

1700
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: don't I don't, I don't, I don't know. I think

1701
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: she killed him. Yeah, I don't see any other way.

1702
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that this is as controversial as it is

1703
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 1: because there's just no other explanation. Even memory loss is

1704
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,040
Speaker 1: not account for the strange story about walking down in

1705
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: the car twice in the middle of the night, like

1706
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: you would have remembered that. I write like there's at

1707
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,360
Speaker 1: some point, yes, the memory loss, fine, whatever, get confused

1708
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:29,640
Speaker 1: about what story you were at and well, but if

1709
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: you walked eight freaking miles in the middle of the night,

1710
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: you would remember that, and you would probably tell people

1711
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 1: that like immediately, Well, I don't know. It's not just

1712
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 1: the inconsistency of the stories or the memory loss or anything.

1713
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 1: It's the whole question of why the hell would she

1714
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:47,680
Speaker 1: do it to begin with. You know, it's like, I

1715
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: really wanted to get the car. Well, why don't you

1716
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: just wait till morning and walk down then, I mean,

1717
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: go ahead, and you go back to sleep and walk

1718
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: down I mean walking down there in the middle of

1719
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: the night made utterly no sense. And again the whole

1720
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 1: idea that that's uh that somebody else killed Bob, Well,

1721
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: that's fine, I can entirely see that. But then you

1722
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: got this amazing coincidence of all these strange things that

1723
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 1: Sue did that night. She went walked back and forth

1724
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 1: and back and forth with the car. But it's also

1725
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: Dinghy comes untied, and even though she said she was

1726
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 1: never anywhere near she went out to the end of

1727
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,600
Speaker 1: a pier to look for Bob, but the witness was

1728
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 1: right there and she didn't she was not there at

1729
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: the pier. Well, I mean, it's also you know, it's

1730
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: the timing with which she suddenly came forward with this

1731
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 1: stuff suspicious too. Yeah, it's if you're only coming out

1732
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 1: with this stuff when somebody says, okay, but we saw

1733
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: your car, and she goes, oh, yeah, you're right, I remember.

1734
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 1: This is what happened. Obviously, you're lying about it, obviously.

1735
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: And that's the thing is that it's so truely if

1736
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 1: there's truly is a miscarriage of justice, and all student

1737
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:52,759
Speaker 1: needs to do is like give us an honest accounting,

1738
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 1: what the hell and what what were you up to

1739
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 1: that night? She may be ashamed to admit what she

1740
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: was up to. I mean, it's entirely possible that she

1741
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 1: didn't do what she said. She was with somebody else.

1742
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 1: Maybe their relationship truly was done to her and she

1743
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 1: was fooling around and that's why she left the car

1744
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: there overnight. Fair enough, But if you are looking at

1745
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: twenty eight years in prison, aren't you going to be like,

1746
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,880
Speaker 1: you're right, I lied, I was sleeping with this person,

1747
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 1: and they will corroborate my story. They're how old was

1748
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: Sue at the time of her conviction? Okay, there there

1749
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 1: are people of that generation that admitting things like having

1750
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: an illicit of fair they would rather die first. They

1751
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: weren't married, but but they were they might well be,

1752
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: and there are people who they would rather die first

1753
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 1: than admit that they were going outside of socially acceptable behavior.

1754
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 1: There's been accounts of this before, whereas you know, it

1755
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: wasn't until the other person came forward to say, listen, dummy,

1756
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,719
Speaker 1: over there, he and I were doing it. So obviously

1757
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,160
Speaker 1: he wasn't there, and he would still be denied. I mean,

1758
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 1: people do this stuff. It's flawed logic, but it happens. Well,

1759
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: we just have to agree to disagree on that she

1760
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 1: killed him. She killed him? Yeah, yeah, he's like, yeah,

1761
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 1: so you I feel Joe's cell phone is still strapped

1762
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: to a raccoons tale. Oh yeah, but but anyway, all

1763
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 1: you folks down, I know you can go to sleep,

1764
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, stop works, stop arguing with one another.

1765
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 1: You know it's done. We've decided Sue is guilty. All right,

1766
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: Well that's it. Another mystery solved. Um. Anyway, if you've

1767
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: got a theory of your own, or if I've mispronounced

1768
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: any words, if you're suing in prison and you want

1769
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 1: to argue with us, say that's fine. You can email

1770
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:37,719
Speaker 1: us or the email is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail

1771
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: dot com. So yeah, tell us what you think. And

1772
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,599
Speaker 1: we also have a website, Thinking Sideways podcast dot com

1773
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 1: where you can download and listen to our episodes. We

1774
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 1: have merg um what else, We've got an episode list. Yeah,

1775
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a new thing. Um, so definitely

1776
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 1: go check that out. We're also on iTunes where you

1777
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 1: can download and listen to subscribe, give us a rating,

1778
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,680
Speaker 1: and give us a review, a good review. We like those. Uh.

1779
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: And of course you can stream us from god knows

1780
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:09,639
Speaker 1: how many places. Yeah, a lot of places, Google everywhere

1781
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: in the internet. Yeah. We're on social media. We're on

1782
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 1: Facebook where we have a group and a page. Uh.

1783
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,719
Speaker 1: So don't we want you want to like the page,

1784
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 1: join the group. Yeah, that's it. Don't friend the page now,

1785
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 1: just join the group. Uh. And that's how you can

1786
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 1: hang out with us and all of our buddies. And

1787
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: there's lots of fun stuff happening out there. Yeah. We're

1788
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 1: also on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways without the gene,

1789
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:35,599
Speaker 1: and there's lots of fun stuff going on out there.

1790
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 1: Devin is posting all the time, like instantly. Yeah. I

1791
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 1: mean you're like a fiend, like a Tasmanian double on

1792
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 1: those Oh yeah, yeah, what else. We gotta subreddit, which

1793
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 1: is you know, kind of active sort of, and I

1794
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: need to get out there actually more often. But there

1795
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: is a subreddit thinking sideways. Uh. And of course you

1796
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 1: know what else. We've got merchandise. We've got shirts, but

1797
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: stickers as a little red bubble stores there on the

1798
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: right hand side of our website. Well, I guess that's

1799
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: about it. Trying to wrap this thing up and head

1800
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 1: on home. You guys, got any last thoughts coming, Let's

1801
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: steam it out of here, alright. No, I can't even

1802
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: pawn right now. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're at the wheel,

1803
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 1: all right, guys, We'll see you next week. Bye bye.