Speaker 1: From my high school team. We have five guys make
Speaker 1: the NBA. We head the county Rocket gets some mecca
Speaker 1: of basketball. Here are those who come before us, upon
Speaker 1: whose shoulders we stand. It's nothing that you can do
Speaker 1: to stop the competitive and there's just in the water.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a special quarantine edition. We got a
Speaker 1: real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with the
Speaker 1: virtual handshake. I'm gonna tell you something that I never
Speaker 1: told no about it. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to a special quarantine edition of all the Smoke. I'm
Speaker 1: coming to you from l A my brother Jackson, Atlanta.
Speaker 1: What's up, bro, my brother. Good to see you. Man.
Speaker 1: How you holding up? I know them boys taying things
Speaker 1: up over there? Man, if they started looking a little
Speaker 1: better though, I'm starting to see some bright days out
Speaker 1: here in the lane of They thinking about opening up
Speaker 1: things starting Friday. I'm I'm gonna laid back a little bit,
Speaker 1: but it's good to see that things are things are
Speaker 1: making progress. See that scares me. I kind of think
Speaker 1: that's a catch twenty two. Obviously, I want the world
Speaker 1: to open back up, but I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: ready for it. And you know, with this administration, it's
Speaker 1: all about business and money, not really preserving lives. So
Speaker 1: I'm a little skeptical on the opening up. As much
Speaker 1: as I want to see the world open back up,
Speaker 1: I don't really know if we're ready. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: know the boys are in here. I was just telling
Speaker 1: Steve before we got going, the boys aren't here doing
Speaker 1: an online homework supposedly in the next room, but I
Speaker 1: keep hearing balls bouncing, then all here fucking one kid
Speaker 1: throwing on the floor yelling. I'm just like, there's no
Speaker 1: part of homework that has that kind of ship going on.
Speaker 1: Basketball at it, right, I guess something, But why do
Speaker 1: you say that? Because out here, our governor it's saying,
Speaker 1: let everybody come out, let's get the city backrolling. But
Speaker 1: out mayor is telling people to stay home. So what
Speaker 1: we're supposed to think? You know what I'm saying, stay home? Yeah,
Speaker 1: at least it's sunny though. Sun. Sun brings a lot
Speaker 1: of hope. Right. But anyway, man, we have an amaze
Speaker 1: seen guests today. A former teammate of Mind, one of
Speaker 1: the greatest point guards ever to play, a two thousand
Speaker 1: eighteen Hall of Fame inductee without further Ado Man. Welcome,
Speaker 1: Steve Nash, Steve welcome. Thanks for having me. Boys, that
Speaker 1: was everything. We were talking a little bit offline. You said,
Speaker 1: you've got five kids in the house. How's that going.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's been, you know, the positive of
Speaker 1: twin fifteen year old girls and you know teenagers, you
Speaker 1: know they love to just revert to their phone. So
Speaker 1: the positive has been like two or three hours a
Speaker 1: day we'll all hang out as a family, and then
Speaker 1: there's like that of the day where it's either like
Speaker 1: I need a drink or I'm gonna jump out a window.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So but we're surviving. What are the ages,
Speaker 1: because I know the youngest is to the youngest nine
Speaker 1: months no, So so I have the three big kids,
Speaker 1: Lo Lumbell are fifty in Matteo, Matteo's nine now, they're great, Lucas,
Speaker 1: Lucas two and a half. And then little baby Ruby's
Speaker 1: uh what she's about nine nine and a half months now.
Speaker 1: So I got them all, I got all all ages, shapesses.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Ruby is a beautiful name. Who I like Ruby,
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful man. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: wife chose it, but I like it. Well, let's get going, man.
Speaker 1: Congratulations again on your Hall of Fame induction in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen. You know, coming from where you came from,
Speaker 1: minimal college scholarship offers, to be named to the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame, what did that mean to you? It meant
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, you know, I was like, I
Speaker 1: was a kid who had one scholarship offer, you know,
Speaker 1: Santa Clara that was there, or else I was gonna
Speaker 1: stay in Canada playing college basketball there. You know, somehow
Speaker 1: it all worked out and in the end, but for
Speaker 1: me to be in the Hall of Fame, be recognized
Speaker 1: for the hard work, to be in the company of
Speaker 1: all those great players is definitely special, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know something that uh you know, it's a moment in
Speaker 1: time that kind of like put up put a bow
Speaker 1: on the whole thing, right starting out playing when I
Speaker 1: was thirteen, you know, making my way through high school,
Speaker 1: college pros and and continuing to push and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a nice kind of closure to
Speaker 1: to what was an amazing experience of being able to
Speaker 1: play this game that I love for as long as
Speaker 1: I did. Eighteen years. Man, that's a long long time,
Speaker 1: you know, getting a chance to play with you that
Speaker 1: one year, Phoenix. I just saw how serious obviously you
Speaker 1: kept body prep, maintaining your body, doing everything you possibly
Speaker 1: could to keep your body in tiptop shape nutritionally physically.
Speaker 1: Talked to us a little bit about that approach, because
Speaker 1: I mean, for people who don't know, who haven't ran
Speaker 1: across you, you're not that big and you were playing
Speaker 1: to get the giants and doing a great job at it.
Speaker 1: So talk to us about your your mental physical preparation
Speaker 1: to to have that just crafty, crafty craft that's another
Speaker 1: word for white. I was, I was, I was hello
Speaker 1: white too, but uh I think you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with the game. Uh I fell in
Speaker 1: love with it as a as a teenager, played it
Speaker 1: obviously all the time. Somehow got that one scholarship offer,
Speaker 1: you know, somehow got myself in the in the draft
Speaker 1: in first round, and you know, probably most people still
Speaker 1: thought maybe a backup, you know, career backup, maybe a starter,
Speaker 1: and just just never took my foot off the gas,
Speaker 1: just worked and worked and worked every single day, you know,
Speaker 1: stacked days and weeks and years on top of each other,
Speaker 1: and just continue to develop. You know, I went. It's
Speaker 1: it's strange to think now, but I went four years
Speaker 1: of Santa Claris so, um, you know, came in the
Speaker 1: league at played eighteen years, retired at forty, and probably
Speaker 1: had my best years you know, in my thirties. So
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I was uh, I would say, uh,
Speaker 1: a late bloomer. I had to catch up physically to
Speaker 1: the level of the NBA. UM. And then when I
Speaker 1: was thirty and I reached kind of my peak, it
Speaker 1: was about maintaining and trying to allow my body to
Speaker 1: play as long as I could. So I was all
Speaker 1: was looking for every advantage, whether that be physical training, conditioning, recovery, um,
Speaker 1: being smart about the way I continue to sharpen my
Speaker 1: skills and put myself in the best physical condition to perform,
Speaker 1: but not overdoing it, not underdoing it, funding that right balance.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I just tried to look for
Speaker 1: those advantages and sleep and diet, um, you know, physical therapy,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, physical stuff, because you know I
Speaker 1: need it. I mean it comes down to one having
Speaker 1: a passion to do it, like I had an absolute
Speaker 1: passion and competitive nature to want to compete, want to
Speaker 1: be out there, want to play as long as I could.
Speaker 1: And so when you have that passion, you're willing to
Speaker 1: make sacrifices. And so I was willing to make sacrifices,
Speaker 1: willing to learn, um looking into all sorts of different
Speaker 1: ways that I could recover or perform or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. So yeah, I started with a passion and
Speaker 1: then a curiosity and then just continue to dial it
Speaker 1: in and unfortunately was able to play through my thirties. Hey, no, nobody,
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know Steeve that use my vet.
Speaker 1: For a couple of weeks, I got for a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, you know what by the signs, man, I
Speaker 1: got drafted by the side, remember I remember. But you know,
Speaker 1: you know what it feels like way more than a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, because were we there like all summer. Yes,
Speaker 1: we were working out there all summer, so like were
Speaker 1: we might have only spent like two or three weeks
Speaker 1: as teammates, but we were, you know, we were worked
Speaker 1: out all summer together, and man, that was fun. We
Speaker 1: had had a great time and you know, getting to
Speaker 1: know you and being too younger guys trying to trying
Speaker 1: to make a name for ourselves, spending that summer working
Speaker 1: out with you or something I'll never forget. Hey, but
Speaker 1: I tell people this all the time, Steve, and I
Speaker 1: said it on this show before, and it's something that
Speaker 1: you told me my rookie year. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember this, and it helped me not only today
Speaker 1: in lighte, but it helped me get through basketball, through
Speaker 1: my career, and even even when I have such situations
Speaker 1: that I'm going through, I think about this. You told me, Hey, Jack,
Speaker 1: whatever you do, don't worry about just keeping it real,
Speaker 1: also keep it right. You told me that my rookie year,
Speaker 1: before I even got a chance to set foot in
Speaker 1: the league. And I remember that to this day, Bro,
Speaker 1: and I thank you for giving me that game because
Speaker 1: I held on that all this time, through everything I've
Speaker 1: been through, I held on that, and I shared that
Speaker 1: when younger kids coming up to I'm glad I gave
Speaker 1: you something. You know. The only lasted two weeks, but
Speaker 1: somehow you came back on. Had a hell of a career,
Speaker 1: and you meant you mentioned Hello White earlier, but I
Speaker 1: think you got your black card the one time you
Speaker 1: were up on stage and Nicki Minaj gave you that
Speaker 1: lap dance had her cousin. What was that like? Um,
Speaker 1: I was that was a unique experience. To say the least,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I enjoyed it. Uh. I'm also gonna
Speaker 1: say sort of sort of, sort of unfulfilling though a
Speaker 1: little bit of a tea. That's funny. Hey, Also, man,
Speaker 1: shout out to Legends. You know, we're partners in a
Speaker 1: in a sports apparel company. I said, you got the
Speaker 1: nice army green sweatshirt on right now. Shout out Legends Merchandise. Yes,
Speaker 1: Steve one of the main owners. Um, talk to us
Speaker 1: a little bit. What is life after basketball been? Like?
Speaker 1: You shared that you know you have a house, fuld
Speaker 1: of kids, But what have you been into personally passion?
Speaker 1: I know you're a huge soccer lover. I know you're
Speaker 1: huge on the content space. Talk to us a little
Speaker 1: bit about what retirement has been like for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, first and foremost, retirement is hard,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how how you guys dealt with it.
Speaker 1: You know, it took me two years to really be
Speaker 1: like Okay, I'm good now. And I was lucky because
Speaker 1: the end of my career was a nightmare, trying to
Speaker 1: stay healthy, trying to play. When I was here with
Speaker 1: the Lakers, it was like I trained twice a day
Speaker 1: for over two years, trying to get myself, give myself
Speaker 1: a chance to contribute. Um of eventually, you know, I
Speaker 1: realized it wasn't happening and my body just had too
Speaker 1: many miles on it. But um, that process I think
Speaker 1: allowed me like a precursor, like to say, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be difficult, Like I could feel where this is going,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be over and then what And you know,
Speaker 1: those some real soul searching when you're thinking like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you've put everything you have into this. This is your identity,
Speaker 1: this is your outlet. Um. You know, the competition, the teammates,
Speaker 1: all the the schedule, you know that that process, you know,
Speaker 1: even driving downtown every other night and showing off in
Speaker 1: front of twenty people like those big, big holes that
Speaker 1: you know basketball will leave behind. And so when I
Speaker 1: struggled for those last two years, I think it allowed
Speaker 1: me to start to you know, recognize that this is
Speaker 1: going to be difficult. And it took me two years
Speaker 1: to really get through the other side where I felt whole.
Speaker 1: But a lot of that was due to the fact
Speaker 1: that I wasn't like you know, it wasn't a terrible
Speaker 1: two years, but it was like I could tell, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm transitioning still I'm still trying to come to
Speaker 1: grips with this, like there's something missing, like something's pulling
Speaker 1: me and I can't fulfill it. And so it took
Speaker 1: me too years. I got through that. But the one
Speaker 1: thing that I did do was give myself that time,
Speaker 1: you know, not trying to rush. UM. I also, you know,
Speaker 1: always prior to prioritize being a dad, so I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time with the kids. Still do try
Speaker 1: to work all my other projects and things around the kids.
Speaker 1: For the last wow. So I mean it's already been
Speaker 1: six years. I think, you know which which has been
Speaker 1: fulfilling and what I love UM, and then I fit
Speaker 1: the other things I'm doing. So our content stuff at
Speaker 1: Control Media, we're you know, we're working on a few
Speaker 1: things on Pistol Pete film, UM, you know, doing different
Speaker 1: things in all formats digitalal um film and television, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's not a huge company at this stage,
Speaker 1: but we're doing things that we're passionate about and enjoying
Speaker 1: it and hopefully making great contact. UM I've obviously yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean obviously I love soccer. I grew up playing
Speaker 1: soccer my dad my home and dad from the UK.
Speaker 1: My dad was a soccer player, My brother played soccer.
Speaker 1: So I love the game. So I got involved with
Speaker 1: my archive team and Spain UM as an owner and
Speaker 1: I'm on the board there. So I've been trying to help,
Speaker 1: you know, just contribute to building that club back up
Speaker 1: when we got there. We're in the second division. We
Speaker 1: actually went down to a third division, came back to
Speaker 1: the second. Now we're actually in the top flight in
Speaker 1: the in the Liga, playing against Barcelona and Real Madrid.
Speaker 1: So that's been a really rewarding and exciting experience. That
Speaker 1: that that I that I put time into, uh and
Speaker 1: I can selt for the Warriors. So you know, I
Speaker 1: have a little bit of basketball, a little bit of soccer,
Speaker 1: a little bit of content, and a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of being dad. It's an actual movie about pistol.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a movie about Pisto pe dramatic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: actual dramatic film. So we we um just signed not
Speaker 1: saying you are, but if anybody can play Pisto Pete,
Speaker 1: I think you could. We don't want. We don't we
Speaker 1: don't want broke back, uh, you know, broken down pistol.
Speaker 1: But hopefully, you know, it's we'll be able to tell
Speaker 1: a great story about him. You know, I think it's
Speaker 1: largely a father son's story, you know, I mean, we
Speaker 1: can go through his career accolades and arc, but you
Speaker 1: know what what made him the player and also what
Speaker 1: made him kind of the tortured soul I think was
Speaker 1: a relationship with his father. Um, so following that as
Speaker 1: I think an important threat of the film. But we're
Speaker 1: we're we We signed on a writer, director, Brad Furman,
Speaker 1: who's um The Infiltrator with Brian Kriston. He's done The
Speaker 1: Lincoln Lawyer with Matthew McConaughey. So he played college Hoops,
Speaker 1: Loves Loves Pistol Pete, So he's in a unique position
Speaker 1: I think to try to hone in on what the
Speaker 1: story is. And uh, you know, I think as a
Speaker 1: as a basketball player, you know, someone like Pete who
Speaker 1: was kind of this you know, he was way out
Speaker 1: of his time, but he was also a tortured individual.
Speaker 1: You know, we want to leave a legacy for these
Speaker 1: guys that many of kids, you know, younger than us.
Speaker 1: You know, they don't know his story, so it would
Speaker 1: be great to be able to tell it and familiarize
Speaker 1: many people are refamiliarized, you know, the majority of people
Speaker 1: with with his great story. I think he made a
Speaker 1: great point. You know, we'll get to our next subject.
Speaker 1: But the history of the game, I think today, more
Speaker 1: than ever, kids don't understand it, don't appreciate it, rarely
Speaker 1: respect it. And I think this quarantine situation has kind
Speaker 1: of changed that somewhat, um with people being able to
Speaker 1: go back and see old footage and see old games
Speaker 1: on NBA TV and not just in basketball and all
Speaker 1: different sports. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Because,
Speaker 1: like I said, you have kids that are on the
Speaker 1: internet all the time now and I do too, and
Speaker 1: it's it's always what have you done for me lately?
Speaker 1: Type stuff? What are your thoughts on just kind of
Speaker 1: the lack of understanding with the history of the game
Speaker 1: from kids today. Yeah, I mean I think it goes
Speaker 1: hand and hand with social media. Um, you know, and
Speaker 1: I get it. And I also get that, like if
Speaker 1: they go back and watch anything like from our primes,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not even high death, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: they so like they when they first as soon as
Speaker 1: they see it. They probably for these ds that have
Speaker 1: grown up that everything they've ever seen is like Crystal Player.
Speaker 1: They look at us right and and it just looks different.
Speaker 1: So right away, there's probably a barrier for them. But
Speaker 1: you know, I think this is great if they can learn.
Speaker 1: You know, there is no current generation without the one
Speaker 1: before and and all the way back to those pioneers
Speaker 1: who started the game. So, um, you know, it's important
Speaker 1: to respect everything that everyone's done in the past. You know,
Speaker 1: I certainly respect this generation of players and think they're
Speaker 1: amazing and love Washington Play. Um, you know, big fan
Speaker 1: of the game right now and all the players, so
Speaker 1: I think, but I think it's a two way street.
Speaker 1: And I definitely respected those that came before me. And
Speaker 1: I guess what you guys are getting at is that,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we had more reverence for those that
Speaker 1: came before us when we are coming up and those
Speaker 1: you know, even when we were just teenagers, we probably
Speaker 1: heard about the history of the game, gravitated towards it,
Speaker 1: wanted to know about it, and and had reverence for
Speaker 1: those players that came before the ones that we were
Speaker 1: currently watching. Yeah, well, and let's let's let's stick to
Speaker 1: to that set. The Last Dance, it came out, It
Speaker 1: came out yesterday. Everybody watched that. Everybody was tould it
Speaker 1: to Michael Jordan's and the bulls. Um he was in
Speaker 1: the league already at that time. You had to go
Speaker 1: up against Mike. Give me uh, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: Give me experience too. Uh. You know, for me, he's
Speaker 1: the greatest player to ever played the game, and he
Speaker 1: was my hero as a kid, got a chance to
Speaker 1: play against him, you know, seven I came in the league,
Speaker 1: you know, and that was you know, the around the time,
Speaker 1: right it was. I think so I think the Last
Speaker 1: Dance was so my my second year in the league. Um,
Speaker 1: so I got to I got to. I mean, you guys,
Speaker 1: remember what it was. We didn't have so much access
Speaker 1: back then to every single thing on Instagram or YouTube,
Speaker 1: let alone watching games life. So you know it was
Speaker 1: mj was must see TV. Like any time he was
Speaker 1: on TV, like it was musty um. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he exactly. He just had this career isma on
Speaker 1: top of all the gifts and skills and mentally you
Speaker 1: know how great he is. I mean, playing against him
Speaker 1: the one thing that I think that he was unlike
Speaker 1: any other player I've ever played against, is that there
Speaker 1: was a real fear playing against him, Like like people
Speaker 1: I've never seen like the league be kind of fearful
Speaker 1: of a player or have that much reference for a player,
Speaker 1: no matter who you who you know has come since then,
Speaker 1: you know that was a different feeling when you're playing
Speaker 1: Mike because you just knew, you know, like there was
Speaker 1: there was such a seriousness, competitiveness and fire in him,
Speaker 1: and you know there was a fear with how that
Speaker 1: was going to manifest itself potentially on any given nights.
Speaker 1: So he was he was. I mean, where do you
Speaker 1: want to start and where do you want to finish?
Speaker 1: With him? He was? He was everything I think we
Speaker 1: take because of social media stuff. For granted, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're Lebron is one of you know, our
Speaker 1: heroes now and he gives constant access and you see
Speaker 1: guy us from other sports give content access. But like
Speaker 1: you were saying, that wasn't the case back then, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like there was no behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: There was no going in the bulls locker room. You
Speaker 1: didn't see the bulls shoot around, you didn't see him
Speaker 1: j off the court and he is our one hero
Speaker 1: that we didn't really get to see that from you know,
Speaker 1: we got rest in Peace code started showing that um
Speaker 1: post career, Lebron has been amazing from the jump. But
Speaker 1: for us as as former players and Mike being someone
Speaker 1: we idolized, obviously Mike and Pip in the bullets, so
Speaker 1: we idolize it's special for us because we kind of
Speaker 1: always wanted to know, like what was it like behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, because we know what it's really like behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, So what was it like behind the scenes
Speaker 1: for them? You know? So I think it's it's amazing.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. I mean, I don't know about
Speaker 1: you guys, but watching the first two episodes, didn't it
Speaker 1: just take you back to being a kid almost like
Speaker 1: what it felt like to watch him like like it
Speaker 1: like you just it's amazing how the Polly had over us.
Speaker 1: And you're right, like we didn't get that access, like
Speaker 1: he didn't get you know, like you said, all that
Speaker 1: stuff that current players have just grown up providing. You know,
Speaker 1: they've grown up with phones and cameras and social media
Speaker 1: that there was none of that, you know, so you know,
Speaker 1: to to go watch. It is like putting us our
Speaker 1: generation back to our teenage or young years a kid,
Speaker 1: and and and getting to see those things that you
Speaker 1: never got to see. Um. You know, we hear the stories,
Speaker 1: but to actually see some footage coupled with some stories
Speaker 1: is incredible. Yeah, I think one good thing. Like I said, obviously,
Speaker 1: there's nothing good that came from the loss of Kobe,
Speaker 1: but I think at the his memorial, you know, the
Speaker 1: way MJ stepped up. You know, we hadn't seen vulnerable
Speaker 1: Mike before, We hadn't seen Mike open up for the
Speaker 1: speech he game was tremendous. Him helping Vanessa down the
Speaker 1: stairs was timely. And I want to say, and I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like, and I hope I'm right that
Speaker 1: maybe seeing what Kobe was on and what he was doing,
Speaker 1: and how he was mentoring, helping opening up more, I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that that kind of struck a match in Mike's
Speaker 1: in Mike's mind, because I think he has been you know, what,
Speaker 1: what would do process? I mean, the greatest ever, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: ship comes with that. I couldn't even speak to what
Speaker 1: comes with that, but I just think him opening up more,
Speaker 1: um is as as a fan, you know, as a
Speaker 1: grown man. That's what I want to see now, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I think with this that
Speaker 1: with this last dance, I hope that we start to
Speaker 1: get to see more of a Mike because he's been
Speaker 1: the one superstar for a lot of people that we
Speaker 1: just never really got to know off the court. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I completely agree. You know, it's um you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's when I got to play with Kobe for
Speaker 1: you know, uh few, you know, we didn't get to
Speaker 1: we both got hurt. But having to share in the
Speaker 1: locker room with him at the end of our career,
Speaker 1: it was an eye opener in a sense because you forget,
Speaker 1: we got drafted together, we played against each other our
Speaker 1: whole careers. You know, you I thought of him as
Speaker 1: a competitor. I thought him as as the competition, you know, predominantly.
Speaker 1: So when I came to the Lakers and you could
Speaker 1: see the like the worship that young players had for him,
Speaker 1: you know, it was an eye opener because I never
Speaker 1: had that perspective of him. But that's exactly how I
Speaker 1: was with Jordan's if you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: when I came in the league. So I've been there.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been there. I'd done what they were
Speaker 1: doing to Kobe. How exciting it was to play with Kobe.
Speaker 1: I I'd done having the chance to play against Jordan's
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And and so to get more from
Speaker 1: from Mike. He doesn't owe anybody anything but to get
Speaker 1: more of him, for him to, you know, to make
Speaker 1: the speech at Kobe's service, for him to do the film,
Speaker 1: for him to you know, just be a little bit
Speaker 1: more opening. He's probably, like you said, relaxed. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's amazing for us. Um, you know, it's it's a
Speaker 1: different time, right, like this might be it. We may
Speaker 1: not get anything else out of him, but that's why
Speaker 1: this is so special and we just gotta like, we
Speaker 1: just got to enjoy it. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame class? We were just speaking on
Speaker 1: Kobe briefly, Uh, adding KG and Tim Duncan to that
Speaker 1: summer saying that's arguably the greatest Hall of Fame class
Speaker 1: ever to be inducted. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1: Hard to be that that trio, Um, you know, honesus incredible,
Speaker 1: happy for all those guys, obviously. Uh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's important for everyone to see Kobe go in and
Speaker 1: kind of have that moment um to recognize what he
Speaker 1: brought to the game, what he meant to the game.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he was a great player, obviously,
Speaker 1: but he touched a nerve with people around the world,
Speaker 1: and I think we saw that when he passed. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it was incredible how just his name as
Speaker 1: presidents meant so much as so many people in so
Speaker 1: many places that maybe you wouldn't expect it to be
Speaker 1: so strong. UM, So I think, you know, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: those guys are all incredible, incredible all time grades. Um,
Speaker 1: but it is also special. I think too that they
Speaker 1: that they can go in with Kobe, Kobe can go
Speaker 1: in with them, um and be recognized just for the
Speaker 1: impact as much as as the accolades. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's something I think we all need to see. So
Speaker 1: it's it's it's an incredible class and hopefully we get
Speaker 1: to do it right, especially in this crazy time where
Speaker 1: it's not gonna probably be your your you know, your
Speaker 1: normal scenario. Hopefully we get some time to things can
Speaker 1: get back to normal and we can honor that class.
Speaker 1: The way they deserve to be honored. Very true. Taking
Speaker 1: it back to your early days. Born in South Africa,
Speaker 1: moved to Canada at a young age, came from a
Speaker 1: predominantly soccer family, didn't start basketball to a twelve or
Speaker 1: third team. What do you remember when you you know
Speaker 1: where did that spark for basketball and wanted you to
Speaker 1: pick up your first basketball start? Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: two things. Barely one was social. I went to where
Speaker 1: I grew up in Canada. Junior high was grades eight, nine, ten.
Speaker 1: High school is a grade eleven and twelve, So I
Speaker 1: went to the eighth grade. Um had played a little
Speaker 1: bit of basketball, and all the kind of jocks at
Speaker 1: my new school all played basketball. They're all basketball players.
Speaker 1: That was the number one sports. So I quickly wanted
Speaker 1: to be with guys that were playing whatever you're playing.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be on the playground plane. And so
Speaker 1: all these guys were playing basketball, and we became, you know,
Speaker 1: best friends, played back. You know, I'm just got totally
Speaker 1: obsessed with the game. And it was exactly the like
Speaker 1: it was right around the time that the Air Jordan
Speaker 1: once came out and and Mike kind of burst onto
Speaker 1: the scene and was like it was just like you know,
Speaker 1: he was like a whole language and to himself just
Speaker 1: watching him, you know, like it it was just such
Speaker 1: an elevated performance. Um. And it was right around the
Speaker 1: time that the you know, the air Jordan's came out
Speaker 1: and he was doing commercials with Spike Lee. So it
Speaker 1: was super like cool time to get to get into basketball.
Speaker 1: I mean, now we have so much media around the game.
Speaker 1: Back then, like a commercial was like, you know, seeing
Speaker 1: an incredible like commercial with personalities like Mike and Spike.
Speaker 1: You know that it was like going to the movie
Speaker 1: theater almost like if you were lucky to catch the commercial,
Speaker 1: you know, like you'd take you'd take teames and you
Speaker 1: would rewind to watch the commercial ten times, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: So that that that was definitely something that that got
Speaker 1: me into the got me excited about the game. But
Speaker 1: really it was social. I was still playing soccer and
Speaker 1: hockey and baseball and all these sports. But you know,
Speaker 1: and I saw eighth grade thirteen, these guys playing all
Speaker 1: the time, loving the game. I have friends to play
Speaker 1: with before school, lunchtime, after school, and um, I just
Speaker 1: took it from there and never stopped and just got
Speaker 1: more and more sucked in and obsessed with the game.
Speaker 1: And UH, and I love playing it, you know, played
Speaker 1: it a long long time. Senior year, you put up
Speaker 1: some numbers nearly twenty one points, eleven assists, nine rebounds.
Speaker 1: Who are you still in rebounds from? Uh? Lead your
Speaker 1: team to the championship and was named player of the Year.
Speaker 1: What was the competitive nature of high school high school
Speaker 1: basketball in UM Canada back then? Yeah, well it was, well,
Speaker 1: I think our year, our class was a good year.
Speaker 1: There was some good teams, good players, like you know,
Speaker 1: guys that could play, like a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: could play some level of college basketball. But it was
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't you know where I grew up.
Speaker 1: It wasn't always like the most as far as the
Speaker 1: highest level, UM, but there was always good players. There
Speaker 1: was always a good culture. There was always a lot
Speaker 1: of interest around high school basketball. UM. It was probably
Speaker 1: the most popular high school sport by far, because you know, soccer, hockey,
Speaker 1: all those sports were playing at the club level. So
Speaker 1: for high school super it was it was it was fun, exciting.
Speaker 1: The provincial championships up there men a lot um you know,
Speaker 1: I was, I was lucky, I had I had an
Speaker 1: incredible coach, you know, he was he played college basketball
Speaker 1: in Canada, was you know, really as good at mine
Speaker 1: for the game as anyone I've ever played for. Uh,
Speaker 1: he was. He was extremely prepared in detailed so I
Speaker 1: got a glimpse of what I was going to see
Speaker 1: from college and pro coaches in high school. A sense
Speaker 1: where like little things, little details at both ends of
Speaker 1: the floor, whether it's individually with your footwork or whether
Speaker 1: it's collectively with rotations or timing and all those things. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I got to play for an incredible coach, um,
Speaker 1: and I've unfortunate that respect. I got to play for
Speaker 1: a lot of great coaches. But that I think, you know,
Speaker 1: gave me an education that allowed me to continue to
Speaker 1: adapt while I was still physically kind of growing into
Speaker 1: you know, my best level where I could compete because
Speaker 1: I wasn't like a lot you know, I never was
Speaker 1: a live wire, but I wasn't like this kid who
Speaker 1: going right away, Oh yeah, I could see him playing
Speaker 1: in the league. You know, I think people were like, right,
Speaker 1: too slow, too short, too weak. So I had to
Speaker 1: get myself up to like an acceptable level in all
Speaker 1: those categories. But in the meantime. You know, I had
Speaker 1: a good skill level, and I had a good understanding
Speaker 1: and education of how to to play the game, and
Speaker 1: so that allowed me, I think I need it at all,
Speaker 1: Like I I didn't, you know, I didn't have the
Speaker 1: you know, the fortune to say, well, just out you know,
Speaker 1: out athlete, people jump over people, be faster than people.
Speaker 1: You know, I had to I had to like shoot
Speaker 1: it well enough, playmate, be smart, be a great teammate,
Speaker 1: and know the game and and somehow I just kept
Speaker 1: like finding a way to get to the next level.
Speaker 1: And that that all started in high school with my
Speaker 1: high school coach. You forgot craftiness, crafty Blanco, go ahead.
Speaker 1: You kind of talked about it earlier, but being recruited
Speaker 1: by one school, you know, going to going to Santa Clair.
Speaker 1: Tell me some members about Santa Clair and being accrued
Speaker 1: about one school. Yeah, I mean for me, it was
Speaker 1: like it was exciting just to have a scholarship offer.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, that was like my ticket. You know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to play in the NBA. Uh And I
Speaker 1: know at the time it probably seemed improbable, but I
Speaker 1: could kind of see a clear path. I could see that,
Speaker 1: you know, my skill level could get there, and if
Speaker 1: I could athletically catch up a little bit. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: with my work ethic, I knew that I would put
Speaker 1: the time in and if I was improving at this rate,
Speaker 1: you know, in in two years, four years, six years,
Speaker 1: there's no reason why I couldn't kind of rate, you know,
Speaker 1: rain some of these other players in. And and that's
Speaker 1: kind of the way I went around about it. And Um,
Speaker 1: Santa Clara was, you know, an incredible squad, a great
Speaker 1: coach again, really tough, which you know, he was hard
Speaker 1: on me, especially when I first got there, and I'll
Speaker 1: say it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I I mean he had me
Speaker 1: thinking about quitting, you know, and that going through that
Speaker 1: experience like made everything after that. You know, it's easy
Speaker 1: to overcome adversity. And and so I thank him. He
Speaker 1: gave me mental toughness, as you guys know, like great
Speaker 1: players in the NBA all have mental toughness, the ability
Speaker 1: to overcome and to face obstacles and challenges. And that's
Speaker 1: that's more than anything. That's what I got at Santa Clara.
Speaker 1: And now the experience was great too, great teammates still
Speaker 1: friends with a lot of with all my teammates, um,
Speaker 1: and so it was a special experience in that respect.
Speaker 1: But as a basketball player I learned a lot from
Speaker 1: the coach and Prime Prime early. I learned mental toughness
Speaker 1: and ability to just not give in, not fall, not
Speaker 1: you know, take your foot off the gas, no matter
Speaker 1: how dark it got. Some days you led them to
Speaker 1: the tournament, Um, the n C Double a tournament. But
Speaker 1: during the height of your college career, who were some
Speaker 1: of the guys possibly in the pros or other college
Speaker 1: guys that you emulated or studied or or try to
Speaker 1: you know, take a little bit of their game and
Speaker 1: added to yours. Yeah, so I grew. I mean my
Speaker 1: hero growing up was Isaiah Thomas from as far as
Speaker 1: who I wanted to emulate. Um, you know, he had,
Speaker 1: he had everything, but he wasn't jumping over people. So
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, there's somebody that I can try
Speaker 1: to emulate. Like he was quick, um, but like other
Speaker 1: than that, he used his skill level, his creativity, his
Speaker 1: competitive nature, like the fight in him was incredible, um lutch.
Speaker 1: He was a dog. And so those are things that
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I can try to emulate that.
Speaker 1: You know, MJ was my hero. There's there's nothing other
Speaker 1: than maybe his footwork I was going to emulate from,
Speaker 1: you know, MJ. So so Isaiah was the guy that
Speaker 1: I really tried to emulate. Um, you know, my my
Speaker 1: freshman year of college. J Kid was a freshman too,
Speaker 1: so you know, he came out after a sophomore year.
Speaker 1: We played against each other in college, both in the
Speaker 1: Bay Area. So I always, you know, strive to learn
Speaker 1: from him and also try to, you know, put myself
Speaker 1: and get to that level one day. Um so that
Speaker 1: you know. But I was the type of guy that
Speaker 1: I would try to take something from everybody. You know.
Speaker 1: I would try to watch, you know, somebody do something
Speaker 1: and and see how that could translate to my game
Speaker 1: and how could I incorporate that, and and it might
Speaker 1: come from the strangest places, but I was always watching,
Speaker 1: always always learning from guys, watching them play, always trying
Speaker 1: to incorporate what they did on the floor, and and
Speaker 1: make myself grow and put more tools in my toolbox
Speaker 1: that I could solve more problems so I could be
Speaker 1: a bigger contributor to my team and just continue to
Speaker 1: push the button there between your junior seening year you
Speaker 1: played on the Canadian national team. You had a cat's
Speaker 1: work out with Gary Payton and Jason Kid. What was
Speaker 1: that like and what did they teach you? Yeah? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know I worked out with with Gary and Brian
Speaker 1: Shaw in Gary's backyard with Gurg. But he said, in
Speaker 1: the backyard, so that's back in the day. That's like
Speaker 1: you last on the outside of the on the submit court.
Speaker 1: The who I love it. I mean Greg putting us
Speaker 1: through drills out there. Um, I mean Gary must have
Speaker 1: already been an All star. Brian you know, played a
Speaker 1: long time in the league. Playing one on one doing
Speaker 1: drills with Gurg. It was like it was incredible. You
Speaker 1: know those guys Jason too, like they worked out at
Speaker 1: other times together and you know they they were supportive,
Speaker 1: you know, which is important. But you could also see
Speaker 1: the competitive nature of the fire the like once you
Speaker 1: step on the court, everything meant something. You know, like
Speaker 1: there was no like I'll give him this one. You know,
Speaker 1: it was like funk that and so yeah exactly so
Speaker 1: so um I love that. I love like trying to
Speaker 1: trying to creep up to compete with them, um and
Speaker 1: to get that access, you know, nowadays, I think I
Speaker 1: feel like there's so much access, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: high school player getting to meet pros, getting to know
Speaker 1: everything they've ever done, um in the gym, Like well,
Speaker 1: you know, back then, there wasn't that same access because
Speaker 1: the social media YouTube, Instagram, you didn't really know what
Speaker 1: guys did right or what they were like so um,
Speaker 1: and it's changed in a sense like now and nowadays,
Speaker 1: everyone really drills drills, drill skill development. You know, back
Speaker 1: then there was a lot more like one on one
Speaker 1: like pickup basketball, like competing, like learning through I'm gonna
Speaker 1: play one on Yeah, we're gonna play one on one,
Speaker 1: and if you beat me, I have to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to beat you. Like what is it is?
Speaker 1: The angles? I take the footwork? How do I create space?
Speaker 1: Like you learned it by trial and error and by
Speaker 1: necessity in a sense, whereas nowadays it's like the books
Speaker 1: have all been written in a sense, like you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many people out there just teaching the game.
Speaker 1: But there's which is great, but there's something lost in that,
Speaker 1: like really like competing, and I think that you know,
Speaker 1: you can do all the drills in the world. Um,
Speaker 1: you can learn all the footwork and everything, which is important,
Speaker 1: but um, there's something built on battling, you know, and
Speaker 1: playing and losing and winning and picking yourself up and
Speaker 1: like you know, nowadays, it's just it's a different generation.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make this a slight because it's
Speaker 1: nobody's fault, um, but sometimes you know, there isn't enough
Speaker 1: of that, like where guys are like you know, in
Speaker 1: the gym, I'm gonna put myself on the line against
Speaker 1: this guy. Now it's like, well there's phones everywhere, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I want to like play one on
Speaker 1: one with so and so and have it be on
Speaker 1: the ground the Graham in five minutes. Um. So it's
Speaker 1: a different it's a different it's I mean, that's just
Speaker 1: one small Anectope. It's a different time. But I learned
Speaker 1: a lot from from Gary Jason, and uh it just
Speaker 1: felt good to kind of in a set find feel
Speaker 1: a little acceptance because I was one scholarship kid in
Speaker 1: a mid major trying to make a name for himself.
Speaker 1: And uh, it was great experience. And I think you
Speaker 1: hit on it too. I think obviously now that because
Speaker 1: this is no slight to knock everyone is too. But
Speaker 1: that the talent and skill level athleticism is incredible right now,
Speaker 1: but I kind of think that some of them lack
Speaker 1: the the i Q and some heart when it comes
Speaker 1: to actually, like you said, going one on one outside,
Speaker 1: it was a war. There was no buddy buddy, There
Speaker 1: was no cell phones. There was no pictures that would
Speaker 1: we would fight like there used to be some real
Speaker 1: ship that would help you get and stuff that we
Speaker 1: would take from our teenage years to the NBA. And
Speaker 1: I think you, like I said, there's no knock. It's
Speaker 1: just a different generation. But obviously times were different with that.
Speaker 1: When did you feel like, Okay, I'm gonna be a pro?
Speaker 1: What what You're in college and high school? Like, when
Speaker 1: did it really click to in your mind like Okay,
Speaker 1: I could do this ship for a real living. That's
Speaker 1: a good question, I think, you know, being and like
Speaker 1: an underdog, I always had that underdog mentality. So I
Speaker 1: never really like counted my chickens, you know. So I
Speaker 1: had a great junior year. There was some talk about
Speaker 1: should I leave, you know, it wasn't It was much
Speaker 1: less common in those days, especially for you know, a
Speaker 1: Canadian kid at a mid major like well we have
Speaker 1: you know, like we need to see more of him
Speaker 1: kind of things. So I stayed. But I think like
Speaker 1: I started to realize. I think I played in the
Speaker 1: World Championships after my sophomore year and had and started
Speaker 1: for Canada. I must have been years old and had
Speaker 1: a good tournament. There was a lot of NBA scouts there,
Speaker 1: and then that kind of started the buzz to where
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this really could happen. And then
Speaker 1: had a good junior year, thought about coming out, didn't
Speaker 1: and then had maybe not quite as good as senior year,
Speaker 1: just you know, dynamics of the team, were facing a
Speaker 1: lot of attention from the other teams, but still had
Speaker 1: a great year. Went in the first round. Somewhere between
Speaker 1: like the summer after my sophomore year, UM and and
Speaker 1: being drafted. You know that it was building, you know,
Speaker 1: I was building it. But again when I got to
Speaker 1: the league and when I was the first round pick,
Speaker 1: you have a three year guaranteed, like there's some security there.
Speaker 1: I still came in the league as an underdog, like
Speaker 1: I have to prove myself every day, Like there's no like,
Speaker 1: there's no I've made it, you know, there's no like um,
Speaker 1: you know, I belong. I mean, there was no entitlement.
Speaker 1: It was like I I felt like I had the
Speaker 1: appropriate fear that I have to prove this every day
Speaker 1: where I could be out, you know, I could be out.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's just different, you know, at different times,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, like back then, you're a rookie,
Speaker 1: you got treated like a rookie. You know, you got
Speaker 1: treated by a teammate, and they just made a big
Speaker 1: trade though, Big Dyce, McLeod all them. It just came
Speaker 1: back right when you got there at some point I
Speaker 1: can't remember they were there. Uh yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: was right. You're right my rookie year, right, because that
Speaker 1: was the reason why they had one draft pick with
Speaker 1: me the next year, because they made those trades to
Speaker 1: get those guys right, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it was and it was yeah going now. And to
Speaker 1: keep it realized, like to touch on what you're saying,
Speaker 1: a spade is a spade. You're a small, little white
Speaker 1: dude playing against g P J Kid all these guards
Speaker 1: like we're not gonna you know, we're gonna bust this
Speaker 1: white dude's ass. And that's how I mean that talk
Speaker 1: is still prevalent until today. So I can only imagine
Speaker 1: back then, like you know, you're coming from a mid
Speaker 1: major trying to make your name, but you're nice. But
Speaker 1: like you know, I could only pitch are GP saying
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let this white dude bust my ass,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Every every single night you
Speaker 1: were going to war with solidified Hall of Fame point guards.
Speaker 1: You know, back then it wasn't so much about social
Speaker 1: media and all that, but you didn't want your friends
Speaker 1: back home to know that this little white boy just
Speaker 1: turns you off, right, So there was a little extray sometimes,
Speaker 1: but you know that makes you, That makes you tougher, right,
Speaker 1: it makes you more consolutely I'm saying that's part of
Speaker 1: that grind, makes you, you know, just thicker skin and
Speaker 1: and to be able to survive, because it is it's
Speaker 1: a in the NBA like there's you know, a big
Speaker 1: part of his just survival, right like, because if you're
Speaker 1: if you're not if you're not ready to play, you
Speaker 1: can get embarrassed. If you get embarrassed too many times,
Speaker 1: you're gone, right, Um, So you know, maybe it is
Speaker 1: a little different now. The players, now, you're right, they're
Speaker 1: so athletics so they're but they're a little more specialists,
Speaker 1: you know. They Um made a sense. It's just a
Speaker 1: differently grow up with differently and they're amazing. I love it.
Speaker 1: But it was a different time and you you definitely
Speaker 1: just had to you had to really earn your stripes
Speaker 1: with your teammates, you know, the referees around the league. Uh,
Speaker 1: you do today, you do today. This is not like
Speaker 1: I love this generation, So this is doesn't just giving
Speaker 1: you a picture of both um. But back then, it
Speaker 1: was like, I mean I remember after every practice, like
Speaker 1: a C. Green was one of my vets and he
Speaker 1: just like kick every ball all over the gym, the
Speaker 1: stadium wherever we were, and were like go go get
Speaker 1: them rook and you know all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's just a different era and uh, and I
Speaker 1: loved it. I was. It was great to look back
Speaker 1: on all those memories, especially now that that's a bygone era.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, man, Like I don't feel old, but like
Speaker 1: it's a bygone era. You know. We had we had
Speaker 1: John Morant on last week and he was talking to
Speaker 1: us about music and he called jay Z old school
Speaker 1: and me and Jack kind of looked at himself like
Speaker 1: fuck yeah, I mean he is you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: These kids are these kids are one years old, like
Speaker 1: he's old school, and it's just like, damn, that went
Speaker 1: by fast. You know. We speak to like we used
Speaker 1: to come in and there used to be a pecking
Speaker 1: order no matter how good you were, because there was vets,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So to be talented, lottery
Speaker 1: pick whatever, to crack that lineup, it was different. We don't,
Speaker 1: no matter how good you were, someone on your team
Speaker 1: or that was gonna have a problem with you trying
Speaker 1: to crack that lineup. But it also, like you said,
Speaker 1: it made us tougher, made us stronger. And then you
Speaker 1: had those vests that would put your arm around you
Speaker 1: and and and school you, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: keep you from making the same mistakes. And I really
Speaker 1: don't see that anymore from a standpoint of just the
Speaker 1: league is so young, so your your your VET is
Speaker 1: a couple of years older than you now, which is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the way the salary cap is to you know,
Speaker 1: like a vet minimum for a guy who's played twelve
Speaker 1: years over a talented um, you know, explosive kid that
Speaker 1: you want to take a chance on, financially, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's much more manageable with the cap and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. So the model doesn't really support you know,
Speaker 1: vets in that respect anymore. Um, you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: there's very few like Jared Dudley's around anymore, whereas like
Speaker 1: there was there was a there was two or three
Speaker 1: on every team when I came into every team. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the vets kind of yeah, the model and
Speaker 1: it was the model of the salary capital, all that
Speaker 1: stuff supported that, and now it doesn't. It's not not
Speaker 1: for better for worse. You know, I think it's a
Speaker 1: shame that we don't have room for both. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, that was definitely a benefit in respect of
Speaker 1: having vets that could show you the ropes, that could
Speaker 1: you know, teach you, share with you, keep you in line,
Speaker 1: and that was you know that that's gotta be a
Speaker 1: little bit more difficult for young players today because every
Speaker 1: team has got like four or five year olds. The
Speaker 1: draft legendary Alan Iverson went one, Canby went to Sharif
Speaker 1: abdul Rahim three, Marbury four, Ray Allen five, Antoine Walker six,
Speaker 1: Carrie Kittle's eight, Kobe thirteen pages fourteen, you land fifteen.
Speaker 1: What do you remember about that draft? And got I
Speaker 1: mean how talented that class was. I mean it was
Speaker 1: one of the best times in my life, you know,
Speaker 1: actually getting drafted and kind of like like I talked
Speaker 1: about the Hall of Fame putting a bow on it. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's like the draft kind of justified all the hours,
Speaker 1: you know, like getting drafted in the first round. Like really,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the reward. Was that moment of like, okay,
Speaker 1: all that time, all that energy and hustle and all
Speaker 1: the tough days, the days you didn't want to do it,
Speaker 1: you know, this is the reward. And so it was
Speaker 1: a special, special time. And then you know, at the time,
Speaker 1: m I knew it was a talented draft for sure,
Speaker 1: but you don't know in context like where everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: go on, what kind of careers are gonna havena happen.
Speaker 1: You have no idea, so like there was no way
Speaker 1: you could have predicted it, but um, but you but
Speaker 1: I knew there was a lot of personalities, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of talent and uh, and looking back, it's
Speaker 1: it's incredible to see the careers that so many of
Speaker 1: my classmates had first time around in Phoenix. Who who
Speaker 1: were some of your bets. Yeah, my vets were like
Speaker 1: Rex Chapman, Danny Manny, Yeah yeah, sat next to Rex
Speaker 1: on the plane. Hilarious. Uh, taught me a lot, still
Speaker 1: friends to this day. Danny Manny was a great, fat,
Speaker 1: unbelievable player, like and he'd already done as a c L.
Speaker 1: Back then, it wasn't as it wasn't like a c
Speaker 1: L s now where you come back because Danny was
Speaker 1: like a six ten point forward. It was really quick.
Speaker 1: He lost a little much game. He has no and
Speaker 1: when he tore his a c L like today, you
Speaker 1: come back fully, maybe even better. Sometimes it wasn't it
Speaker 1: wasn't like that, and so you know, he lost a
Speaker 1: little bit of quickness and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: like mobility durability in that knee. But he could play
Speaker 1: so smart six ten, could post, could point play the point,
Speaker 1: could pass, red react cut, you know. So I learned
Speaker 1: a lot from those vets. Kevin Johnson, hot Rod, you know,
Speaker 1: hot Rod, Williams Rest in peace, Wayamon Tisdale rest in peace.
Speaker 1: You know guys that were just you know, good pros,
Speaker 1: uh supportive. Taught me a lot, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I was. I was fortunate. You know, I came in
Speaker 1: behind Kevin. We traded for Jason, kids like Jason and Kevin,
Speaker 1: so I also got to play behind two great, great
Speaker 1: point guards. Um and and I learned a tremendous amount
Speaker 1: from those guys. Donnie Nelson was in the office in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: He moved to Dallas and they trade for you the season.
Speaker 1: What was that light going over there? And and and
Speaker 1: with with the young Dirk and Mark Cuban as an owner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at first I want I didn't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, go. I love Phoenix, you know, Uh, Jack
Speaker 1: will tell you it's great down there. You know, Phoenix beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was in a great city. The organization, Jerry was unbelievable. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it just felt great. It felt like home.
Speaker 1: And my second year with Jason and Kevin, I still
Speaker 1: got like twenty plus it's a game. Danny Ainge was
Speaker 1: crazy enough to play all three of us together, and
Speaker 1: and that was That was a great moment in my career.
Speaker 1: Playing with Jason and Kevin and still being able to
Speaker 1: push myself in a twenty two minutes a game or whatever.
Speaker 1: My second year was a great accomplishment for me. And
Speaker 1: was proving that I was continuing on the right path.
Speaker 1: So then for it to be kind of over and
Speaker 1: in respect um after that season was disappointing. But uh,
Speaker 1: Dallas one of the worst teams in the league. I
Speaker 1: got traded there on draft Day when Dirk got drafted
Speaker 1: by the Maths, and we played in the old Reunion Arena,
Speaker 1: and you know, it just it wasn't in the same
Speaker 1: place that that Phoenix was at the time, so it
Speaker 1: was it was in a sense, it was like step down.
Speaker 1: And then we had the lockout that year. I remember
Speaker 1: I was playing a pickup game like a week before
Speaker 1: training camp, and I got knocked out of the air
Speaker 1: going to the basket and landed on my back. And
Speaker 1: I struggled the whole year, and that's when I realized
Speaker 1: I had back problems that season. You know that I
Speaker 1: that I congenital and had a long time, But that's
Speaker 1: when I really that they've presented themselves and became a problem.
Speaker 1: So I struggled the first lockout year, struggled a little
Speaker 1: bit the second year, and then you know, DRK and
Speaker 1: I think turned a corner Mark Cuban about the team,
Speaker 1: and the Mavericks became one of the places to be,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So got ourselves to the conference finals. Jack,
Speaker 1: you and that team were you, uh San Antonio Dallas
Speaker 1: Conference finals lost? Yeah. Um remember Stevie Kerr came in
Speaker 1: and hit like four or five threes in the fourth
Speaker 1: quarter of the clincher. Um. Anyways, So playing from Mark
Speaker 1: was incredible. Um. You know it wasn't all you know,
Speaker 1: like market could you know in some ways get under
Speaker 1: your skin at times. But he was such a pioneering
Speaker 1: person for the game, like pushing the envelope on everything,
Speaker 1: the rules, you know, the way we went about things,
Speaker 1: referee marketing, like so many ways. He tried to everything
Speaker 1: that that that we did in the league, and so
Speaker 1: it was incredible to watch him. He's a kind of
Speaker 1: a force of nature in that respect, and so to
Speaker 1: be there from the start with him was it was
Speaker 1: exciting and that was a very influential time in my career.
Speaker 1: I don't have the team and scoring that game by
Speaker 1: the way, Oh would you drive? How many had Okay
Speaker 1: in the clinching game game six? Yeah, I think people
Speaker 1: forget I was just saying, I think people forget Jack.
Speaker 1: You would like the second you're like the second best
Speaker 1: player on the team. People forget like I don't talk.
Speaker 1: I don't talk much. But see when we have guests
Speaker 1: like the m VPS like you, and Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: is like you, that's all I need. I don't talk
Speaker 1: much because people I got, I got over shadowed by
Speaker 1: the four three Steve here, but if they look at
Speaker 1: quarters one, two and three, I had Tim on lock.
Speaker 1: Tim couldn't get a bucket and I had to say this,
Speaker 1: man Gino, actually man g nobally say this. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys obviously had a great team and a stuff,
Speaker 1: but I think sometimes you're a little run There might
Speaker 1: be a little underappreciate it. We recognize that. Take us
Speaker 1: back a little bit to to the development, uh developing
Speaker 1: a friendship with Dirk and his growth and when you
Speaker 1: guys kind of felt like you guys were clicking in
Speaker 1: your chemistry started hitting and you like, holy shit, this
Speaker 1: motherfucker's gonna be a problem. Yeah, I mean you can
Speaker 1: see right away. We I mean, first of all, he
Speaker 1: said you can see right away. I mean you can
Speaker 1: see the kid was talented. I mean just the way
Speaker 1: the ball left his hand and the way it fell
Speaker 1: through the who right like hecause a seven. Guy shoots
Speaker 1: the ball way up in the air and it comes down.
Speaker 1: It comes from down in the it comes down like
Speaker 1: not a swish, like a swish on the bottom of
Speaker 1: the net, you know what I mean, like it touches
Speaker 1: the net. You know, you're like this this there's some
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something going on here with this kid.
Speaker 1: And he was people I think, especially like nowadays in
Speaker 1: social media, you think you see Dirk is like this
Speaker 1: guy with his ankles basically locked, can't move. But he
Speaker 1: was super mobile. Back in the day. He wasn't explosive,
Speaker 1: but he was mobile, you know, seven feet he could
Speaker 1: really move, put the ball down on the floor, spin,
Speaker 1: run the court, you know, catching and make plays off
Speaker 1: the dribble. You know. So you could see he had
Speaker 1: all these things athleticism in that way. Um, when we
Speaker 1: came in though, I mean we were one of the
Speaker 1: worst teams in the league. He was Dirk was really
Speaker 1: going through a lot of culture shock, like he was
Speaker 1: playing second division in Germany or maybe maybe they just
Speaker 1: got to the first division, you know which back then
Speaker 1: especially was a far cry from the league. He's nineteen
Speaker 1: years old. You know, he was a mama's boy. And
Speaker 1: here we are in Dallas. Um, I'm struggling, he's struggling.
Speaker 1: And so the good news was that we came in
Speaker 1: the same day together. He isn't even gonna come and
Speaker 1: play that lockout year. We convinced him to come back
Speaker 1: and play. So we kind of in a sense, had
Speaker 1: each other to lean on to, to push each other,
Speaker 1: to play one on one horse, to go back to
Speaker 1: the gym at night, to keep fighting, keep pushing each
Speaker 1: other while we struggles while people were down on us.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time people probably thought both
Speaker 1: of us were going to be out of the league
Speaker 1: in those first two years. Um, but we kept working
Speaker 1: and I went through some injury stuff and he went
Speaker 1: through kind of that adaptation to living abroad and playing
Speaker 1: in the league. But I think having each other was
Speaker 1: huge because we pushed each other. We you know, continue
Speaker 1: to encourage each other, could see there was a path
Speaker 1: for us if we continue to work at it. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, we stuck with it. And we went from
Speaker 1: one of the worst teams in the league and barely
Speaker 1: contributing to the conference finals and and and playing in
Speaker 1: All Star Games. And that was a very influential time
Speaker 1: in my career two thousand two, you guys beat UM
Speaker 1: Minnesota in three games and then end up falling to Sacramento.
Speaker 1: I mean, KG is one of my ever players and
Speaker 1: FAY players to play against. The passion energy, you know,
Speaker 1: NonStop talking. Uh, couldn't shut up. But I love that.
Speaker 1: I love I love the personality and and and more
Speaker 1: than anything, I really respect because I know what he
Speaker 1: put in. I know much time and effort, and how
Speaker 1: professionally was he worked really hard. He was incredibly professional,
Speaker 1: great teammate, UM, so he did it the right way,
Speaker 1: and so it was it always a pleasure to play
Speaker 1: against him and during my career and then to play
Speaker 1: as that sacramental team, those Rick Adelman teams, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, good guards are great guards obviously
Speaker 1: Mike Bibby, Doug Christie, UM, but they're big. That had
Speaker 1: been Paige obviously was maybe their best player at their
Speaker 1: different times during that run. But you know, the passing
Speaker 1: of Vladi and Sea Webb was unbelievable for two people guys,
Speaker 1: you know, and it allowed them to play the game
Speaker 1: in a way that was so rare and so difficult
Speaker 1: to defend. That ball just moved and and guys with
Speaker 1: you know, they space the floor and make you pay
Speaker 1: with back cuts or threes and and it was beautiful.
Speaker 1: And you know, that year we lost to them in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, I really felt like Doug Christie and Adelman
Speaker 1: had a big impact. You know, whenever we were doing
Speaker 1: our two man game on one elbow or on one wing,
Speaker 1: you know, they bring Christie over to the middle of
Speaker 1: the paint um. You know, he would kind of he
Speaker 1: would actually come all the way to the strong side block.
Speaker 1: It wasn't no three seconds seconds you had to well
Speaker 1: you yeah, but you also you had to either come
Speaker 1: or stay. And so he would come all the way
Speaker 1: instead of and take and so you don't have to
Speaker 1: throw out to the corner. And they would either rotate,
Speaker 1: stunt and get back and but inevitably the ball was gone.
Speaker 1: I was out of my hands, you know. So it
Speaker 1: was either played two on three versus Doug Christie is
Speaker 1: the their man, or throw it to the weak side.
Speaker 1: And I remember that really hurt us in that series.
Speaker 1: But that's those teams were fun to watch, fun to
Speaker 1: play against. Sacramento was an incredible place to play building.
Speaker 1: I felt like it was alling down, but the energy
Speaker 1: in there was incredible, a two thousand three sixty win season.
Speaker 1: Beat Portland's seven, beat Sacramento and seven. And then this
Speaker 1: is where my bad I misspoke early. You ran into
Speaker 1: the Spurs in the Western Conference finals where my co
Speaker 1: host had a big game. Six. Talked to us about
Speaker 1: because that was that was your last run in Dallas.
Speaker 1: Talked to us about that. Yeah, actually that was the
Speaker 1: second That was my second last year in Dallas. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got to the conference finals. I think they beat
Speaker 1: us four too, and actually we won a game without Dirk.
Speaker 1: Dirk like twisted his knees saying he was hurt and
Speaker 1: he missed two games. One of them we won I think,
Speaker 1: to make it three too in San Antonio. In San Antonio, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we beat them at their place without Dirk to go
Speaker 1: to bring it back to two three. Then we went
Speaker 1: to Dallas and that was the Steve Kerr game where
Speaker 1: he had those four threes in the fourth corner jack
Speaker 1: in the big game. Um, you know that was those
Speaker 1: That was a tough team and and I don't know
Speaker 1: that we were ready, but it made us try to
Speaker 1: our our franchise, try to take steps to get over
Speaker 1: the hump. And so we signed Antoine Walker and Antoine
Speaker 1: Jamison the next that summer. Um, and and it kind
Speaker 1: of it's it was, it was, you know, they were
Speaker 1: that it was ballsy. They tried something, but really you
Speaker 1: got you got ants both Antwine's and Dirk playing the
Speaker 1: same position. They're all kind of like mobile fours, and
Speaker 1: so it uh, it just didn't work. Um, it was difficult. Um.
Speaker 1: And that was I think that I had. You know,
Speaker 1: I was always a pass for us guy, and so
Speaker 1: I tried to make this thing work. So I first
Speaker 1: part of the season, half of the season, my numbers
Speaker 1: were really down. But the second half of the season,
Speaker 1: I think I shot over and played well. Um. But
Speaker 1: I think it was like a sign to Mark Human
Speaker 1: that like maybe he thought, like this is I was
Speaker 1: coming to the end because I didn't quite have the
Speaker 1: full year that I had had prior so that that summer,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't he really didn't make a big
Speaker 1: effort to keep me. I think he thought he didn't
Speaker 1: want to overpay. I think he'd overpaid a few guys.
Speaker 1: Didn't want to overpay an hating point guard. Um. And
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's how I ended up in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: Really was is that he wasn't you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think he was confident in my future at that point.
Speaker 1: Um talked to us a little bit about that second
Speaker 1: time around, because you guys had a fucking squad and
Speaker 1: Maori Shawn Mary and Joe Johnson q rich that small
Speaker 1: ball Uh was so fun to watch and play against
Speaker 1: the answered in two to talk about that, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, Like it was a fun obviously a
Speaker 1: fun team team. I think they kind of took the
Speaker 1: league by storm. You know, we were absolutely you know,
Speaker 1: I think the year before we're at we're one of
Speaker 1: the you know, maybe one six games. So coming into
Speaker 1: that year training camp, people thought like, this isn't a
Speaker 1: playoff team. This is a team that you know, might
Speaker 1: win thirty something games. Um. So we came out of
Speaker 1: the gates I think like thirty one in five. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, basically you know, just running people out of
Speaker 1: the building and we're playing a style and a pace
Speaker 1: that was you know, it was rare, and I think
Speaker 1: it was exciting for the fans. It was fun to
Speaker 1: play that style, but also we were punishing people and
Speaker 1: so um. But it was a young team. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of guys who had never played in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: got to the you know, I got to the conference finals.
Speaker 1: It got to actually play Dallas, my former team, which
Speaker 1: was which was difficult, but beat them in the in
Speaker 1: the semifinals, then played the Spurs again in the in
Speaker 1: the finals, lost four one. That was a series that
Speaker 1: Joe Johnson missed. Um. He played I think the last game,
Speaker 1: the clincher that we lost. UM. So that was tough.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, they were they were a terrific team.
Speaker 1: They they had a lot of experience as well, championship
Speaker 1: pedigree and all that. But you know, it was tough.
Speaker 1: We were already a team that didn't play a deep
Speaker 1: bench at all, and so to lose a players talented
Speaker 1: as you know, as Joe was, and especially he was
Speaker 1: coming on, you know, he was getting better as the
Speaker 1: season went on and was pivotal kind of big guard
Speaker 1: who could make plays, be the backup. People don't realize
Speaker 1: how good he was. Joe Johnson was so because he
Speaker 1: was just so mild mannered and quiet, but so talented.
Speaker 1: Just so much game, you know, so much game. And
Speaker 1: he was like six pounds um and and athletic when
Speaker 1: he wanted to be so um, you know, to lose
Speaker 1: him was tough. To lose him to Atlanta that summer
Speaker 1: was even tougher. Uh, But those years in Phoenix were incredible.
Speaker 1: UM gave me, you know, some of the best memories
Speaker 1: of my career. We we played an incredible playoff series.
Speaker 1: We never got over the hump, but I think we
Speaker 1: played in three or four Western Conference finals in an
Speaker 1: an incredibly difficult Western Conference at the time. So um,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't make the finals, but you know,
Speaker 1: those were years where the team that came out of
Speaker 1: the East we were beating by thirty twice, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, so we didn't get to the finals, but
Speaker 1: we we also were finals caliber team that just played
Speaker 1: in the Western Conference where you have to get through
Speaker 1: you know, big teams touched you touched on it tough
Speaker 1: because the West was definitely dominant back then. But for
Speaker 1: you to win back to back m vps UM during
Speaker 1: that that that run in Phoenix was historical, was amazing.
Speaker 1: But it caught a lot of people by surprise. Talk
Speaker 1: to us about that. Yeah, I mean I think it
Speaker 1: was you know, I went from UH an All Star
Speaker 1: player to UH to an m v P and and
Speaker 1: you know, I'll never put myself in a category of
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. But I think those teams
Speaker 1: were special. I think our team we lead the the
Speaker 1: league in scoring. Well, I think every year I was there,
Speaker 1: and so I think there was you know, and I
Speaker 1: think also we we forget and Tom I want no
Speaker 1: no that have to defend myself, but it's like you're
Speaker 1: forgetting time that you know, although like I average, you know,
Speaker 1: somewhere between fifteen and eighteen points in those years, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I would close games and score the north
Speaker 1: quarter a lot more and when when it was needed.
Speaker 1: But I still came from the school of being a
Speaker 1: pass first point guard. So I was never like I
Speaker 1: gotta go out and get twenty fives. And I was
Speaker 1: always like, I want our team to flourish. I want
Speaker 1: guys to feel good and get easy pockets, and I'll
Speaker 1: step up when I have to. And so those were
Speaker 1: special years where I think I took a jump as
Speaker 1: a player and became more of a threat in every way.
Speaker 1: But I also got to play with the team that
Speaker 1: fit really well, maybe needed someone to create for them,
Speaker 1: and then they could finish, uh and they could finish
Speaker 1: with the best of them so it was a perfect
Speaker 1: fit in a lot of ways that it highlighted my game,
Speaker 1: highlighted their game, and I think collectively we were very
Speaker 1: difficult to control. Talk to me a little bit about
Speaker 1: playing with a Mariti Stadtermeyer who who was a killer,
Speaker 1: and then Shawn Marrying and too. I mean, those are
Speaker 1: two guys that you could put the ball anywhere. They go,
Speaker 1: get rebound, lay defense, played hard. What was that like
Speaker 1: playing with both those guys? It was awesome. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, especially for someone who loves to to find
Speaker 1: his teammates, you know, they're both are incredib ball athletes.
Speaker 1: A Marii first of all, incredible feat for a big
Speaker 1: guy like really could could move, change directions, and he
Speaker 1: had big hands and great hands and so you know
Speaker 1: once once he got a piece of that ball, he
Speaker 1: could suck it in and you know, I was I
Speaker 1: could finish with the best of him one ft two
Speaker 1: ft um. He was incredible as a pick and roll
Speaker 1: partner of transition. Sean was you know, Sean was an
Speaker 1: incredible athlete. Like his quickness, speed from end to end,
Speaker 1: his quickness, ability to guard multiple positions. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: he his second jump was almost as good as his
Speaker 1: first so he could do so many things athletically. They
Speaker 1: were so incredible. Um so it was it was fun.
Speaker 1: I have these two two guys I could throw lops
Speaker 1: to or find on the break for finishes and use
Speaker 1: their athleticism and speed to cause the defense problems. And
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean I was very fortunate to get
Speaker 1: to play with those two guys. Um oh six of
Speaker 1: mart goes down with the knee injury. Uh Rajabelle dil Barbosa.
Speaker 1: You win your second m v P. You're on the
Speaker 1: Clever Slam magazine and the and the headline is is
Speaker 1: Nash better than Stock? Then? Kid? What were your thoughts
Speaker 1: like that? Because things were coming at you so fast,
Speaker 1: Like I said, you were approving all star. You're jumping
Speaker 1: into this m v P caliber, which you know, only
Speaker 1: Hall of famers basically, you know, get a chance to
Speaker 1: do What was all that success like? And how did
Speaker 1: you take it? And how did you handle it? I
Speaker 1: always felt like an underdog, So I always like lost
Speaker 1: myself in in like you gotta work, like if you
Speaker 1: have a big game or you had a big season
Speaker 1: your m v P. I never was like I ad
Speaker 1: made it. I was always like I need to do more.
Speaker 1: I need to do it again. I need to continue
Speaker 1: to approving. So I never really like took in like
Speaker 1: the accolades like that. I always like move right back
Speaker 1: to my work, you know, right back to my process
Speaker 1: and just trying to stay focused on what that is.
Speaker 1: Um one, it helps you handle the pressure and expectations.
Speaker 1: But to like it keeps you, keeps you sharp, keeps
Speaker 1: you growing, keeps you getting better. Uh, it simplifies everything
Speaker 1: if you just know this is my process. I stick
Speaker 1: to the way I prepare and perform and recover. You know,
Speaker 1: then then you're thinking about what matters and not getting
Speaker 1: letting the rest of the stuff get in your head.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just i'd always just reverted back to
Speaker 1: my work. I had a great chemistry talk about how
Speaker 1: tough wasn't losing a mar Yeah, I mean that second
Speaker 1: year Mary didn't play. We still made the conference finals.
Speaker 1: But you know, Boris Dia was phenomenal playing the five
Speaker 1: the four um as a play Yeah, and Steve, I Steve,
Speaker 1: I don't mean to cut you off, Steve, but I
Speaker 1: tell somebody this and they asked me who was the
Speaker 1: most talented playoff ever played with my NBA career, and
Speaker 1: I told him, bars D, I don't know why people
Speaker 1: don't believe me. Yeah. He I mean an incredible basketball player, UM,
Speaker 1: incredible field for the game passer. Uh could could use
Speaker 1: that body to you know, to punish smaller guards when
Speaker 1: he got the switches and was was quick enough and
Speaker 1: clever enough with the ball even though he only goes
Speaker 1: right to to roast big guys from the perimeter. UM.
Speaker 1: And just like he was, you know, he had the vision,
Speaker 1: like high high level vision to pass. You know. So
Speaker 1: when I had to pick a role with the Mari,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd find a Mari for finishes. When I
Speaker 1: had to pick and roll with with Boris, you know,
Speaker 1: if I draw two defenders and threw it to him.
Speaker 1: Now he's playing two on two, three on two, and
Speaker 1: he's the point guard getting in the teeth of the defense,
Speaker 1: and he was he was incredible in that position. So
Speaker 1: that was great. I mean, playing with all those guys
Speaker 1: though Sean Mari Boris had felt great chemistry. Um. And
Speaker 1: then on top of the chemistry on the court, we
Speaker 1: always had fun. Like we had great teams. We had
Speaker 1: great teams that would go out together, go eat together,
Speaker 1: go to the movies together, spend time together, so there
Speaker 1: was always a little yeah, there was always a little
Speaker 1: more on it. There was always a little more feeling
Speaker 1: in the dressing room, and and I think that was
Speaker 1: something that made our team special as well. Two thousand seven,
Speaker 1: Mari's back. You guys win sixty one games, he plays
Speaker 1: the whole season. Uh, second round against the Spurs. It's
Speaker 1: getting heated to too, if I'm not mistaken, and uh
Speaker 1: oor it takes one of the most blatant cheap shots.
Speaker 1: And this is coming up. I don't really take cheap shots.
Speaker 1: I just made hard fouls. But he takes a blatant
Speaker 1: cheap shot that kind of changed the whole outlook and
Speaker 1: and and uh of the series, and it was through
Speaker 1: suspensions and guys stepping on the court. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that time, because I mean, obviously the Spurs went
Speaker 1: on to win. Uh they beat Utah and then swept Cleveland.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought you guys had a great chance
Speaker 1: to win a championship that year with the hell of
Speaker 1: a team, the style of play. Mari was healthy. Talked
Speaker 1: to us about that second round matchup. Yeah, man, I
Speaker 1: mean it's painful to think about, you know, like it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love life, and I'm like life moves
Speaker 1: on and I great life. But like, you know, we
Speaker 1: had a great opportunity there. I think we at that game.
Speaker 1: We tied the series too two with their place going home,
Speaker 1: going home to regain home court, and I was right
Speaker 1: at the end of the game, you know. Um. And
Speaker 1: then then Mamari and Boris gets suspended and obviously we
Speaker 1: play incredibly small and leading all of Game five until
Speaker 1: the last minute, and they overtake us. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: what could have been. But for whatever you know, reason
Speaker 1: that things happened. I always look at it like I
Speaker 1: could have made another player too to get over the
Speaker 1: hump and didn't. Um. But definitely there was some some
Speaker 1: some luck involved, as there always is, and and we
Speaker 1: didn't get the breaks. But that's a it's a you know,
Speaker 1: a team that always found a way to put themselves
Speaker 1: in a position to win and so maximum respect him,
Speaker 1: and they got us again unfortunately. Just a little context
Speaker 1: that for those who don't know. So it's what Game four,
Speaker 1: you guys to winning that game, right, So we win
Speaker 1: Game four in San Antonio. I actually watched it recently. Um,
Speaker 1: I watched I never watched anything, but um, Bill Simmons
Speaker 1: does that book a basketball podcast, and he asked me
Speaker 1: to watch that game and talk about it. So I
Speaker 1: watched it on my phone like right away, like anxiety
Speaker 1: levels through the roof, like thirteen years and it was
Speaker 1: alarming to watch. You know, it was alarming to watch
Speaker 1: because we're supposed to be this fast paced team that um,
Speaker 1: you know, push the temp on. The reality is we
Speaker 1: played right into the first hands that game four in
Speaker 1: San Antonio. I think we we either took or made
Speaker 1: five threes. You know, we we won in San Antonio
Speaker 1: one on one like nine seven or one o three.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, we should have played so much faster. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the way they played that big and how
Speaker 1: dominant Timmy was. They always had another center alongside him,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, so to be in that position,
Speaker 1: it was incredible considering I don't think we played a
Speaker 1: style it's contrary to kind of like how we remember
Speaker 1: it that really you know, represented our best opportunity to win.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, hats off to the Spurs. But
Speaker 1: it just shows, like I said, you won their way
Speaker 1: and that and that's a sign of a team that
Speaker 1: can win a championship. You know, especially considering that was
Speaker 1: the Spurs. You know, so you get fouled a Mari
Speaker 1: and bors step on the court that NBA rules step
Speaker 1: on the court, which eliminates them from Game five, and
Speaker 1: you know the rest is NBA history. So that's it's brutal.
Speaker 1: I mean, they you know, they were reacting in shock.
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't like chase anyone down. They jumped
Speaker 1: and then there's five or six assistant coaches all on
Speaker 1: the on the sideline. You have to go on the
Speaker 1: court to see around them, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, Like you it was
Speaker 1: right down the sideline, so they couldn't like, look, they
Speaker 1: took a step out to see if I was okay,
Speaker 1: and you know it wasn't. Definitely wasn't the spirit of
Speaker 1: the law. It was like a technicality in a sense.
Speaker 1: So it was a full shit. We didn't get to
Speaker 1: play the series out absolutely. Um Any truth to the
Speaker 1: rumor that you would spoken to KG that summer about
Speaker 1: coming to Phoenix, Yeah, there was there was a time
Speaker 1: ownership asked me to call him uh and recruit him.
Speaker 1: Would have been an incredible player to play with, but
Speaker 1: we didn't have full calf slot that other teams did
Speaker 1: so in a sense. I And Kevin tells this story
Speaker 1: too that I told him, I'm kind of embarrassed to
Speaker 1: call you because you don't have to take a pay
Speaker 1: got to come here, but we'd love to have you.
Speaker 1: So we did have that conversation. He respected my honesty.
Speaker 1: The reality is we just you know, he would have
Speaker 1: had to take a you know, a much lower salary.
Speaker 1: So I was never really close to happening. I don't
Speaker 1: think we tried to get into around the town that
Speaker 1: was up standing. Were trying to get around that time too. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he said it was Phoenix. He said who was his
Speaker 1: Phoenix us? He wanted to play with Code too, and
Speaker 1: it ended up being Boston. Yeah. I mean that was
Speaker 1: a perfect situation, the way they kind of engineered that
Speaker 1: whole team. And I mean it's almost crazy that they
Speaker 1: only won once. Yeah, crazy. As good as they were
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, you'll probably beat the Spurs, you
Speaker 1: meet the Lakers. You played against Kobe in Game six,
Speaker 1: and Kobe go crazy to talk about that. That was
Speaker 1: he was unbelievable in that game. Um, you know it
Speaker 1: was it was I don't know that he had a
Speaker 1: great series until that game. But I remember they won
Speaker 1: two games in l A. I thought we got a
Speaker 1: terrible whistle. We came back to Phoenix and one hind
Speaker 1: and one easily. Then we come back to l A
Speaker 1: to two, and that's the game. We we came flying back,
Speaker 1: tied the game with like a couple of seconds left,
Speaker 1: had all the momentum, and then Kobe missed a game
Speaker 1: winner air ball and uh run our tests ran in
Speaker 1: and caught the ball like around his waist to flip
Speaker 1: it up off the glass. When's when's the game? And
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh man, that was like another slap
Speaker 1: in the face for me, just game five, just thinking like,
Speaker 1: you know, we get Kobe Bryant to miss the basket completely,
Speaker 1: you know, we have all the momentum, and we give
Speaker 1: up like a crazy offensive rebound Austin up high off
Speaker 1: the class. So we go back home, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: down three two, and Kobe as a as a classic.
Speaker 1: You know he's making everything, making deep deep threes with
Speaker 1: grand Hill all in his face. Uh, he was just
Speaker 1: he was totally on fire and uh had a great
Speaker 1: game and and deserve to close it up. M M.
Speaker 1: The summer of two thousand and ten. Um, did you
Speaker 1: guys think that was your guys last roe with them? Mark?
Speaker 1: Did you think had you had conversations with him, did
Speaker 1: you think he was going to leave? There was there
Speaker 1: a chance? Did he say it was staying? What was that? Like?
Speaker 1: I thought he was gonna leave. You know, our ownership
Speaker 1: group was was adverse to going over the salary cap.
Speaker 1: They also, I think we're scared to give him ARII
Speaker 1: you know, within troubles he'd have with his knee, um,
Speaker 1: both knees, I think, uh, you know, the full max.
Speaker 1: And and so I knew there was teams out there
Speaker 1: in the Nicks in particular, they we're gonna give him
Speaker 1: the max, so he would have to take a big
Speaker 1: pay cut, not only I think in salary, but also
Speaker 1: in in length of years. So I thought it was
Speaker 1: pretty clear that there was a great chance he was
Speaker 1: gonna go. And you know, that was it. That was
Speaker 1: the end of that kind of run, so to speak.
Speaker 1: And you know it was it was an incredible run
Speaker 1: for me playing with the Mari was one of the
Speaker 1: best partners I had and had so many incredible nights,
Speaker 1: you know, being on to play with him in transition
Speaker 1: and pick and roll and on a lot of playoffs success.
Speaker 1: Never got to the finals, but we're close a number
Speaker 1: of times, and uh, I'll never forget it. And that
Speaker 1: was that was an incredibly fun time in my career.
Speaker 1: Two thousand twelve. You're thirty six years old and you're
Speaker 1: coming to l A to play with Kobe Actually thirty
Speaker 1: I think I was thirty eight. Yeah, thirty eighth old man,
Speaker 1: excuse me coming to l A play with co lakerside
Speaker 1: dwhite Um talked to us about that time. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was exciting. I mean, you know, the big My first
Speaker 1: priority was I was going through a divorce, so I
Speaker 1: wanted to come to l A over Toronto and New
Speaker 1: York the other two options, because it was close to
Speaker 1: Phoenix and it was so much uncertainty, you know, going
Speaker 1: through that period. So that was, you know, the number
Speaker 1: one reason. But then to be able to joint forces
Speaker 1: with those players, obviously thought we had a championship opportunity,
Speaker 1: and uh, couldn't have been more wrong. I've gone more sideways,
Speaker 1: but coming here, I was excited. Um. I actually I
Speaker 1: think made my last All Star Game that season at
Speaker 1: thirty eight before I came to the Lakers. So I
Speaker 1: still believed I could have a big impact, you know,
Speaker 1: And I don't know how much of it was, you know,
Speaker 1: I was losing a step, or how much of it
Speaker 1: was me breaking my knee at the start of that season,
Speaker 1: breaking my tip fip joint. I know I was never
Speaker 1: the same after after I fractured my knee. Um. But
Speaker 1: the whole thing, you know, Dwight was coming off back surgery.
Speaker 1: I think I think he rushed back. I think he
Speaker 1: rushed back because I had to white in in Orlando.
Speaker 1: And when I tell you, I've never played with a
Speaker 1: more security blanket in my life. He was incredible, and
Speaker 1: it hurt me because I knew, you know, when you
Speaker 1: come to Lakers, you you can contest to it's just
Speaker 1: a different aura that you're expected to win. You're expected
Speaker 1: to be your best. There's no excuses. Fuck everything else.
Speaker 1: You're a Laker, so nothing else matters. So him coming
Speaker 1: back rushing back, I personally knew that he wasn't ready.
Speaker 1: But I think you alluded to something too that people
Speaker 1: don't think about in the process, that in the mental preparation,
Speaker 1: the mental toughness, you're going through a divorce, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, so you're still trying to put yourself in
Speaker 1: a position where uncertainty. I still want to be able
Speaker 1: to see my kids. I don't want to move too
Speaker 1: far away without getting too far into your personal life.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that, because people don't see that
Speaker 1: side of athletes and realize how important other stuff in
Speaker 1: our life is when it pertains to our our our
Speaker 1: our craft and our profession. Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: anyone could you know if you took a second to
Speaker 1: examine that, how difficult that would be. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I was like I would fly back times after practice
Speaker 1: to go to my well, how old the girls have been.
Speaker 1: They must have been like eight nine years old, go
Speaker 1: back for our soccer practice and fly back after it,
Speaker 1: you know, just just to just to see them, to
Speaker 1: get those touches in, so to speak, Um, and get
Speaker 1: through that school year. You know they moved to l
Speaker 1: A after the school year. But um, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it adds to it, right, It adds to everything. And
Speaker 1: maybe at that stage in my career, the stress didn't
Speaker 1: help when I'm trying to, you know, overcome so many things.
Speaker 1: But you know it was it just wasn't meant to be.
Speaker 1: And I put I've never worked as hard in my
Speaker 1: life as I did for those two years, trying to
Speaker 1: make it happen, trying to contribute, trying to be near
Speaker 1: my best or at a level that I could really contribute,
Speaker 1: and and it was an exciting prospect. And in the
Speaker 1: end it was a disaster, but still a great experience.
Speaker 1: I got, Like so many times, when you go through
Speaker 1: difficult times, you know it's tough in the moment, but
Speaker 1: when you get through the other side, you realize that
Speaker 1: you learn a lot. You were challenged, so allows you
Speaker 1: to handle the next things that come in life. So
Speaker 1: it was it was incredible to get a chance to
Speaker 1: play for the Laker organization, to to meet all the
Speaker 1: people and that I've been a part of that for
Speaker 1: so many years. Um and so I take a lot
Speaker 1: of positives from it, regardless of all the negatives. When
Speaker 1: did you start to explore cannabis during this process? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know what my You said cannabis right, yes, sir? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought you said. I wasn't sure. You said Canada.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, from the job, Yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not a I'm not a I was
Speaker 1: never really a smoker. But you know, the Indica has
Speaker 1: really helped me sleep. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 1: use Indica for sleep, but I use it for life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that man, Like honestly, if it was if it if
Speaker 1: I didn't, I wasn't aware of it during my career,
Speaker 1: but sleeping was always a problem for me, and it's
Speaker 1: the number one way to recover. Um, I really wish,
Speaker 1: you know, it could have helped me perform to have
Speaker 1: you know that sleep agent that it isn't you know,
Speaker 1: as as kind of gnarly, as like the sleep pills
Speaker 1: that I refused to take because the in fact they
Speaker 1: have on your body. Um So so really I've I've
Speaker 1: I've been using that since I retired, and it's given
Speaker 1: it's improved my life, Like I sleep better, Um, I
Speaker 1: you know, I've more reserves to be a data five kids,
Speaker 1: um and do all the things that I want to
Speaker 1: continue doing. So that's kind that's kind of the extent
Speaker 1: of it for me. Well, what are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: cannabis to the betterment in professional sports? Like you said,
Speaker 1: to recover, to sleep, to to do all the things
Speaker 1: you didn't know at the time it was helping with
Speaker 1: because I had a conversation not to uh you know
Speaker 1: to go in the direction with Steve Kerr when I
Speaker 1: was with the Wars the last year I won a
Speaker 1: championship and he had the uh, those back problems, the
Speaker 1: spine problems, and and and we had a conversation about
Speaker 1: oddly enough a player talking to his coach, but he
Speaker 1: couldn't he couldn't, you know, he was just in a
Speaker 1: horrible position. And it was telling me that, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the CBD stuff and the TC stuff he
Speaker 1: was using was really working. I'm just like, wow, you know,
Speaker 1: me being you know, Jack to someone who smoked cannabis
Speaker 1: since I was fourteen. I loved seeing that there was
Speaker 1: finally medical research and studies to prove what we already
Speaker 1: knew and would make other people more willing to give
Speaker 1: it a try, you know what I mean. And you
Speaker 1: were one of them. Yeah, I mean the proofs in
Speaker 1: the pudding right, Like it's becoming legalized, so we we
Speaker 1: know enough. We're educated enough now to know that it's
Speaker 1: not like the stigma that needs to follow it around. Um,
Speaker 1: there are so many purposes and packages that allow it
Speaker 1: to help many many people. So I think it's it's
Speaker 1: just one of those uh parts of evolutionist society that
Speaker 1: we're gaining, and I think within time it'll be a
Speaker 1: much more mainstream and common thing in all people's walks
Speaker 1: and lives, especially for those are professional athletes. So, um,
Speaker 1: you play with a lot of a great a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of players, a lot of great players.
Speaker 1: I was one player that you could play with that
Speaker 1: you didn't play with, who would it be? M um?
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because like Jordan was my hero,
Speaker 1: so you'd love to say I could play with Jordan's
Speaker 1: But you know, also you know the other players of
Speaker 1: our era that I competed against. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: really feel like necessarily like I wanted to play with
Speaker 1: him because I always felt like we were competing against them. Um.
Speaker 1: But you can imagine though, like the I want to
Speaker 1: be like, especially in that era, to play with you know,
Speaker 1: a great big like uh you know, not not not
Speaker 1: that Tim, Tim Duncan, Kevin, Kevin Garnett, Um, those guys.
Speaker 1: A Maori was more like this mobile like big forward
Speaker 1: and he was incredible in the pick and roll. Those
Speaker 1: guys were more of those like they owned the game
Speaker 1: under the basket at both ends. And uh so that
Speaker 1: those those guys would be incredible, especially in that era.
Speaker 1: You know, we're like a rim protector was just so
Speaker 1: invaluable important, you know, the way the game is played.
Speaker 1: Uh favorite point guard to go to battle against mm
Speaker 1: hmm uh has had some great battles with Jay Kidd.
Speaker 1: You know that's kind of my era. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he was somebody that I think I really admired his
Speaker 1: you know, the way he played the game and how
Speaker 1: special a player he was. So that was he was
Speaker 1: one of my one of my favorites. So that actually
Speaker 1: this music, what's you're listening to? What you gotta repeat
Speaker 1: right now? Um? He was so funny, like with five kids,
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, when do I listen to music anymore? Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: so you know you end up listening. My daughters love
Speaker 1: Harry Styles, like that was the last concert I went
Speaker 1: through with me. You know. It's, um, it's crazy. So
Speaker 1: I still try to like, you know, moving music still
Speaker 1: moves you, and it's always cool to hear good, good music.
Speaker 1: But it's like crazy, how in having two little babies
Speaker 1: the last three years, like music has just fallen out
Speaker 1: of the window. I just think nothing new, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad. Hopefully I'll get back to it
Speaker 1: one day. You've been named dropped by a lot of artists.
Speaker 1: I know I've been I've been lucky, right, real quick,
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on real quick. You said you're
Speaker 1: consulting for the Warriors. Me being there that one year,
Speaker 1: I was just fucking blowing away about the workouts you
Speaker 1: would put Steph and k D through. But to see
Speaker 1: k D doing what Steph did at seven ft and
Speaker 1: the balance and the spinning and all the ship you
Speaker 1: had them going through, it was just U. I used
Speaker 1: to enjoy at the inter practice, sitting and watching that.
Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit, just a little bit
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I mean I think like when when
Speaker 1: I coach, teach whatever you wanna call it, guys, you know,
Speaker 1: I always try to start first with movement, like being
Speaker 1: on balance, moving correctly, because I think that if you're
Speaker 1: moving well, and you're moving in the right way, um,
Speaker 1: and you have the mobility, stability and the dynamic movements
Speaker 1: that if you get as as close to your potential
Speaker 1: in those areas, your skill can take off and your
Speaker 1: skill can take over. You know, if if you start
Speaker 1: cutting corners on the way you move, you know, you
Speaker 1: Nick gait. I think your your skill and your ability
Speaker 1: to to make plays at your potential. So Kevin is just,
Speaker 1: you know, like most of the greats, they move really
Speaker 1: really well. And he's just a freak in that he's
Speaker 1: six ten, six and eleven whatever he is and skilled
Speaker 1: and explosive and can control those long favers. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: we ever have we ever seen someone that's like that
Speaker 1: explosive and that controlled but at that length um inaccuracy.
Speaker 1: So you know, he's special obviously, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: it was fun to work with him. It was like
Speaker 1: I said, well, what blow me away was You're you're
Speaker 1: not teaching guard movement, but you're teaching balance and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So you see staff at six
Speaker 1: three doing it, and then you see Katie right next
Speaker 1: to him at seven ft doing the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, God, this is It's insane, it
Speaker 1: is it's it really is crazy. Um, he's you know,
Speaker 1: let's let's hope we get the best Katie back after this,
Speaker 1: because he really is a beautiful basketball player and moved
Speaker 1: so well for someone with such long leavers. Absolutely, last
Speaker 1: question of the day. Rank these three players for me
Speaker 1: in your opinion? M J, Kobe, Lebron. It's tricky, you know.
Speaker 1: I think MJ's my guy for sure always. You know,
Speaker 1: when you talk about Lebron and Kobe, like, I totally
Speaker 1: understand why people have Lebron where he is either first
Speaker 1: or second in many people's eyes. You know. Um, when
Speaker 1: you look at the whole picture of everything Lebron's done
Speaker 1: over his course of his career, it's hard to argue with.
Speaker 1: I think at his best, Kobe was right up there
Speaker 1: with any of them, you know, Um, you know he
Speaker 1: I don't know where the knock is, but um, you
Speaker 1: know he he when he was flying and playing at
Speaker 1: his best, you know, he he was as good as
Speaker 1: we've ever seen. So, UM, I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: you probably you probably had me saying Jordan, Lebron, Kobe
Speaker 1: on the total picture, But um, I mean, how do
Speaker 1: you go wrong at their best? There? They all three
Speaker 1: of them at their best, all three of them that
Speaker 1: played the game at a at a level higher than
Speaker 1: uh you know any Yeah, cool, hey man, that's a rap. Steve,
Speaker 1: Thank you, We appreciate your time. All the smoke. You
Speaker 1: can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and all platforms
Speaker 1: streaming podcast. Oh them. It's something about how this place
Speaker 1: forms a different kind of person. On my high school team,
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Speaker 1: County rock at you mentioned Prince Shortis County. People know
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