Speaker 1: Episode four fifty nine, five Ways your childhood impacts how
Speaker 1: you spend money. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where
Speaker 1: you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life.
Speaker 2: Here your host Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are talking about
Speaker 1: your childhood and your adult money and how the two connect.
Speaker 3: Oh so excited.
Speaker 2: Jill is so excited.
Speaker 3: Jill.
Speaker 1: We don't I mean, we don't talk about it a ton,
Speaker 1: but she is a licensed clinical social worker and so
Speaker 1: stuff like this is her Jam.
Speaker 3: I do enjoy it, which it probably is good to remind.
Speaker 3: I'm sure our ogs know that about me, but we have.
Speaker 3: I've gotten some reviews that say, like this is pseudo psychology.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: It was a while ago, but I'm like, no, I
Speaker 3: am licensed to be able to talk about this, but
Speaker 3: oh wow, so here you have it. I just I
Speaker 3: keep it under wraps for the most part, but it
Speaker 3: is really thrilling to me when I get to combine
Speaker 3: that aspect of my personhood with finances, and of course
Speaker 3: you see you throughout. For both of us, I think
Speaker 3: we enjoy looking at ourselves as whole people and exploring
Speaker 3: the ways that all of the aspects of who we
Speaker 3: are impact our money decisions and behaviors. Because it is
Speaker 3: not just about math. It is not just about putting
Speaker 3: numbers on a paper and making the exact right decisions.
Speaker 3: There's so much that plays into really all of our
Speaker 3: behaviors and our outlook on life, which of course impacts money,
Speaker 3: and so of course, similar to all the rest of life,
Speaker 3: our childhood, the way that we were raised impacts how
Speaker 3: we move through life, for better or worse. There are
Speaker 3: some really beautiful things about that. For some of us,
Speaker 3: there's some things we need to untangle and create new
Speaker 3: patterns of relating, And the same is true for money.
Speaker 3: But yet it's one of the areas that I think
Speaker 3: we talk about and look at the least regarding what
Speaker 3: did this look like in my childhood and what of
Speaker 3: those things are spilling over now. So that's what we're
Speaker 3: going to explore. We're breaking it down into five ways.
Speaker 3: Of course, there's more than that. We're primarily looking at
Speaker 3: just what your understanding of your upbringing can do to
Speaker 3: help you make better spending decisions now.
Speaker 1: But first, this episode is brought to you by the playground.
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Speaker 2: So it's a real problem. Yeah, it is a problem.
Speaker 3: It hurts too when you fall on that mault. It
Speaker 3: just gets stuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you don't think about it, but it's there.
Speaker 2: We pulled you all.
Speaker 3: In the friend letter and asked what do you most
Speaker 3: wish you learned about money as a kid, and you all,
Speaker 3: of course, most of you did say how to invest,
Speaker 3: but there was then a good spread between the rest
Speaker 3: of the answers of how to spend wisely, best ways
Speaker 3: to save money, the realities of debt. That was actually
Speaker 3: second place in the of course how to invest. So
Speaker 3: really we are kind of all over the map, almost
Speaker 3: saying we really wish we just had a financial crash. Course, yeah,
Speaker 3: a one oh one growing up, and so we feel
Speaker 3: Yet it's it's really not talked about very often, and
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that we have to then settle in
Speaker 3: that place. It doesn't mean that we can't learn the
Speaker 3: skill of spending well and managing money well. But it
Speaker 3: is good to recognize if you weren't taught these things,
Speaker 3: then how could you expect yourself to know them now
Speaker 3: and recognizing that and then being kind to yourself by
Speaker 3: learning these skills now. No matter what age you are,
Speaker 3: it's never too late.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the answer because there were some responses,
Speaker 1: I think the answer that got me most was from
Speaker 1: our reader who said, I just wish I hadn't been
Speaker 1: brushed off every time I asked an adult other than
Speaker 1: my mother about anything money related. At least she answered honestly,
Speaker 1: and she understood more than you'd expect for somebody who
Speaker 1: never went to college and didn't have any anything but
Speaker 1: life experience for a teacher, and it's it is kind
Speaker 1: of signaling how a lot of this is gate kept,
Speaker 1: and that's what we'll go into that a little bit.
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of gaps for us, and
Speaker 1: they're generational, you know, like you can't you don't know
Speaker 1: what you don't know, you can't teach we you know
Speaker 1: you don't know is needed to teach, and so a
Speaker 1: lot of that is the source of some of these
Speaker 1: like maybe like money traumas or just money like for
Speaker 1: you know, forgotten about money lessons that we did not
Speaker 1: get as kids. But I am very excited to go
Speaker 1: through this episode.
Speaker 3: So the article we're gonna focus on today comes from Tatler.
Speaker 3: It's titled Wealth with Sophia, How your childhood may have
Speaker 3: impacted your relationship with money and what you can do
Speaker 3: about it. We pulled out five five takeaways, although this
Speaker 3: wasn't explicit within this article. This was a little bit
Speaker 3: more mining the article for some of these takeaways, and
Speaker 3: then I added in just a few just that I
Speaker 3: know about. But I really enjoyed this article and I
Speaker 3: think it's it's worth diving into. And they cite at
Speaker 3: the beginning this research from the University of Cambridge where
Speaker 3: they found that many of our fundamental money habits are
Speaker 3: already taking shape by the tender age of seven. By
Speaker 3: the time we are seven years old, we have formulated
Speaker 3: in idea and understanding of money, even if it's not
Speaker 3: been explicitly talked about. And those habits are the very
Speaker 3: ones that we will carry with us into adulthood. If
Speaker 3: not then kind of taught or undone or added too.
Speaker 3: And if you combine that with the reality that many
Speaker 3: schools and parents are not teaching their kids about money,
Speaker 3: if at all, at least usually after seven. You're not
Speaker 3: usually having these money conversations. For many of us, we didn't.
Speaker 3: So it's an interesting thing to realize, Wow, there's so
Speaker 3: much that we pick up on early on and the
Speaker 3: information comes so much later than that. And so, yeah,
Speaker 3: it can really help us to see why we might
Speaker 3: have some of these habits and behaviors that aren't necessarily
Speaker 3: benefiting us financially, and what can we do about about it?
Speaker 3: And how can this help inform those of us who
Speaker 3: might be parents to be able to teach children to me?
Speaker 3: And this is maybe the call out to say, yeah,
Speaker 3: no it's not three, four, five, six, it's not too early.
Speaker 3: If a lot of this is being picked up by
Speaker 3: age seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we just had an episode several weeks ago with
Speaker 1: Andy Hill about how to make your kid a Millionaire,
Speaker 1: and most of it was focused on how do we
Speaker 1: form their mindset around money? How do we help them
Speaker 1: shape that mindset? And you cannot start too early. As
Speaker 1: soon as they start to ask about things that require
Speaker 1: limits or boundaries or consumption like, that's it. That's the
Speaker 1: starting point. So, yeah, it's if you're wondering when to
Speaker 1: start teaching kids about money, it's definitely before seven. But
Speaker 1: if you haven't yet, it's also not too late.
Speaker 3: So the first one that I want to extract from
Speaker 3: this article as how our upbringing impacts the way that
Speaker 3: we now engage with money, is our parents are caregivers
Speaker 3: attitudes towards money. This is something that we certainly pick
Speaker 3: up on again, whether or not as we sit down
Speaker 3: and talk about money as as kids with our parents.
Speaker 3: But what are the general attitudes around money? How did
Speaker 3: your parents engage with money? What did you watch them
Speaker 3: do regarding spending and saving? What were beliefs about wealth?
Speaker 3: Did they stick to societal norms? Did they kind of
Speaker 3: operate on the fringe? Were they pushing back against consumerism
Speaker 3: where they fully engaged in it? How was money kind
Speaker 3: of approached, understood, talked about? Just general attitudes about money.
Speaker 3: That this is something that we then can take on,
Speaker 3: whether we take on the same type of attitudes as
Speaker 3: our parents, or we choose, you know, maybe to go
Speaker 3: into the opposite extreme. Either way, it does form some
Speaker 3: of the foundation of how we even view this thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's that more is caught than taught thing.
Speaker 1: That's the first part. So like the way you speak
Speaker 1: about money, not even in conversation, but just the way
Speaker 1: that you maybe speak to other people and children are
Speaker 1: hearing it, or the way your parents would speak about it,
Speaker 1: or the way they would look at a bill, like
Speaker 1: you get a bill in the mail and there's like
Speaker 1: so much turmoil, or watching people, you know, parents just
Speaker 1: spend money willy nilly, Like money comes in, money comes out.
Speaker 2: That's that's the belief.
Speaker 1: So like what you caught is significantly going to influence
Speaker 1: your attitude towards money. So the next one I think
Speaker 1: is maybe the biggest one, and it follows up kind
Speaker 1: of on the reader reply that I just read. It's
Speaker 1: the communication about money.
Speaker 2: So this is what.
Speaker 1: Your parents actually told you or what they did not
Speaker 1: tell you, and then if you asked. And this was
Speaker 1: a big thing in my house. My parents did not
Speaker 1: want to talk to me about money because they didn't
Speaker 1: want to quote unquote burden me with that. It was
Speaker 1: so I picked up that money is a burden. Having
Speaker 1: money is hard and not having it is a burden,
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't I didn't even know if we had
Speaker 1: a lot of money I assumed that we didn't because
Speaker 1: we didn't have the house and the stuff like other people.
Speaker 1: So then I interpreted money as a burden and something
Speaker 1: to be scared of entering into adulthood, Like cherish, you
Speaker 1: know this time when you don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: money because money is a negative thing when you reach adulthood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think too, Well, we'll get to experiences,
Speaker 3: but also the specific time, the environment in which you
Speaker 3: grew up up and we're living in, and how you
Speaker 3: saw your parents kind of walk through Like so for
Speaker 3: you and I Jen, you know, the two thousand and
Speaker 3: eight you know, housing crisis and different kind of economic
Speaker 3: downturns through some of those formative years may shift, you know,
Speaker 3: parental attitudes and the communication about money versus someone who
Speaker 3: might have been a child during economic times that were
Speaker 3: really great. That's going to play a part in this
Speaker 3: as well. Just even what generation did you grow up in,
Speaker 3: and what was the parental generation before you? How were
Speaker 3: they kind of approaching some of these things. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: decaated a decade.
Speaker 1: Also, I think the important thing from that reader replied too,
Speaker 1: is that this person had acted other people outside of
Speaker 1: their family like wanted to know and explore, and people
Speaker 1: wouldn't answer her questions like either because maybe they didn't
Speaker 1: know and they didn't want to be wrong. Like nobody
Speaker 1: talks about money, so we don't feel confident in it, right,
Speaker 1: so nobody would answer questions. So it felt it also
Speaker 1: felt like a gate kept thing. And something I see
Speaker 1: and have been thinking a lot about is how like
Speaker 1: I just got back from fin Con and so there
Speaker 1: are definitely a section of people that are moderate income,
Speaker 1: but you've got people there that are very high income
Speaker 1: and high net worth. And because we're all money nerds,
Speaker 1: we everybody intermingles and talks about money and it's not weird,
Speaker 1: but at home it's hard. And I find myself doing
Speaker 1: this when I am with someone I know is doing
Speaker 1: like at least quarter of a million like in income
Speaker 1: every year, and I you know, they've got their nice cars,
Speaker 1: they've got their brand new house and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: and like they're talking about things I can't relate to,
Speaker 1: and there's a bit of judgment, like like you are
Speaker 1: complaining about things that a lot of other people don't
Speaker 1: have to complain about, and like that just feels icky
Speaker 1: to me because I relate on a lower income level.
Speaker 1: So then in turn, they feel judged and they and
Speaker 1: I'm internalizing all this, but I assume they feel judged,
Speaker 1: so they stop hanging out with people who are in
Speaker 1: that lower income bracket and try to exclusively hang out with,
Speaker 1: you know, more people in the higher income bracket. So
Speaker 1: that alienates high income earners from low income earners. And
Speaker 1: we have essentially alienated ourselves because of our judgment and
Speaker 1: it makes it harder to be in relationship with these
Speaker 1: people who could answer questions for us and not and
Speaker 1: feel more confident.
Speaker 2: They are more.
Speaker 1: Confident in those answers. And it's just and the de
Speaker 1: grows with every generation, Yeah, because in part due to
Speaker 1: some of our judgmentalness.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I think you're probably also highlighting what
Speaker 3: our experience could be in childhood as well. With that
Speaker 3: with where we live again, that environment that we're talking
Speaker 3: about not just the generation and the time frame in
Speaker 3: which we were growing up, but also the location. We
Speaker 3: see this with housing, Like I live in a lower
Speaker 3: middle class neighborhood, and so that's all I'm surrounded by.
Speaker 3: If I had children, that would be the income bracket
Speaker 3: that we have here, right, most neighborhoods don't have stark
Speaker 3: differences on the same road of what the houses look
Speaker 3: like and the socioeconomic status, and so we also then
Speaker 3: kind of only know what we see what we're surrounded
Speaker 3: by and the income brackets, and then the attitudes about
Speaker 3: money and the conversations about money that may or may
Speaker 3: not happen. And one of the things that I see
Speaker 3: and I'm just going to say this anecdotally, this is
Speaker 3: not like research backed, but it seems to me that
Speaker 3: those with less talk about money less, those with more
Speaker 3: will talk about it more. Just as far as financial education,
Speaker 3: and so you know, we're not learning. Of course, we're
Speaker 3: talking about maybe not having, but we're not necessarily talking about, oh,
Speaker 3: how can I improve the situation? How can I make
Speaker 3: better decisions? Whereas those in some of these higher income
Speaker 3: brackets might have more of the knowledge about investing how
Speaker 3: they got there and are teaching their children more about it.
Speaker 3: And so there's that cycle that you're talking about of
Speaker 3: continued disparity because we're not around it, we don't have
Speaker 3: access to it, no one's teaching us about it, and
Speaker 3: it's not our current living situation either. How do we
Speaker 3: kind of learn new patterns and different ways and the Yeah,
Speaker 3: the only way I think is exposing ourselves to those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of putting aside some of our maybe judgmentalness
Speaker 1: or insecurity, some imposter syndrome and kind of breaking that
Speaker 1: from you know, I was like the poor kid, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up and putting ourselves in more of those you know,
Speaker 1: it's baby steps, right, Like we say, when you're trying
Speaker 1: to say no to impulse spending, you make baby steps.
Speaker 1: And the more the quicker the successes you have, the
Speaker 1: more confident you feel. Right, baby steps. And it's the
Speaker 1: same way like the more we network with people who
Speaker 1: have been more successful with money, more successful negotiating career
Speaker 1: moves and all that, it's going to feel awkward at first,
Speaker 1: but that's how you break the cycle, is by being
Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable and putting yourself in these situations so
Speaker 1: that you have a community where you can ask questions
Speaker 1: and people who've already sended these baby steps or maybe
Speaker 1: just were born ahead of the game and had fewer
Speaker 1: baby steps to like walk so that you can get
Speaker 1: your questions answered more confidently.
Speaker 3: And I want to clarify, at least for me, the
Speaker 3: goal isn't so that I end up in a big
Speaker 3: mansion with beautiful.
Speaker 2: Love see cars.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm sitting on top of hundreds of thousands,
Speaker 3: if not millions of dollars, and I'm sequestering myself away
Speaker 3: from like society and culture. Like I would hope that
Speaker 3: if I did, you know, come upon more money, that
Speaker 3: it wouldn't change too much about my lifestyle and my community.
Speaker 3: But I think that there is something to be said
Speaker 3: for it's okay to want more. It's okay to want
Speaker 3: to earn a little bit more, to not constantly feel
Speaker 3: stretched thin. So of course, talking about I think both
Speaker 3: you and I have experiences of not having a lot
Speaker 3: through childhood, so I think, you know, some of this
Speaker 3: is bringing up our own personal backgrounds and kind of
Speaker 3: how it's impacted us. But the third thing I want
Speaker 3: to point out on here is financial stability and that
Speaker 3: you experienced during childhood. And I would say this would
Speaker 3: probably be real or perceived. I think a lot of
Speaker 3: times our parents and caregivers can kind of create the
Speaker 3: environment for us that we don't always know what exactly
Speaker 3: is happening financially, and sometimes that's intentional on our parents' part,
Speaker 3: sometimes not. But whatever financial stability during childhood you felt,
Speaker 3: will have an impact on the way that you now
Speaker 3: approach money, experience your own lifestyle. So whether there was
Speaker 3: a sense of having enough or constantly feeling like maybe
Speaker 3: money was running out. I know, for me growing up,
Speaker 3: my dad's job, he's an entrepreneur, and it was either
Speaker 3: feast or famine, and a lot of times and they
Speaker 3: would even talk to us about this, like, we don't
Speaker 3: want you to worry about money. Uh, that's that's for
Speaker 3: mom and dad, that's for us to be worried about.
Speaker 3: And I respect that. Certainly, there are certainly, you know,
Speaker 3: adult themes that children just don't need to be concerned about.
Speaker 3: But what I noticed too in that was I would
Speaker 3: only really become aware of our financial situation when it
Speaker 3: was starting to run out and we needed to kind
Speaker 3: of pinch the grocery budget or clip the coupons and
Speaker 3: do the different things. And so for me, that's one
Speaker 3: of the pieces of that that financial stability during childhood
Speaker 3: is I didn't know much, but then when I did,
Speaker 3: when I was aware of it, it was when there
Speaker 3: wasn't a lot coming in. And so that's neither good
Speaker 3: nor bad. It just was the experience. And so for
Speaker 3: me understanding that that's what I went, you know, that
Speaker 3: was my experience. It helps me to kind of know
Speaker 3: how I experience money now, what running out feels like,
Speaker 3: and how to plant my feet in reality more than
Speaker 3: necessarily what I might be experiencing emotionally as a result
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think was something that like I am seeing
Speaker 1: right now, is in somebody else that I know who
Speaker 1: recently like inherited money and grew up without a lot
Speaker 1: of money, or at least not the ability to use a.
Speaker 2: Lot of money.
Speaker 1: And then when he inherited his parents like retirement, it
Speaker 1: wasn't extravagant, but definitely like a good amount.
Speaker 2: And then right.
Speaker 1: And now he is just going ape with spending and
Speaker 1: it'll be a while before it runs out, but it
Speaker 1: will run out at this rate, and it's and you
Speaker 1: can get it like you do that rebelling thing, like
Speaker 1: I didn't get this as a child, and I deserve
Speaker 1: it now I can afford it, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: make up for lost time. And we're always making up
Speaker 1: for lost time with that mindset. And until you decide
Speaker 1: what is enough, like what is making up for it?
Speaker 1: You have to put a line in the sand and decide, Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I have deserved this for a while and I haven't
Speaker 1: gotten it. That's normal. We all deserve a lot more
Speaker 1: than maybe what we can afford, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: circumstantial or intentional or whatever we did. The I deserve
Speaker 1: mentality is toxic episode, and that's kind of what the
Speaker 1: gist of it was. But we make the best with
Speaker 1: what we have and we don't, you know, we try
Speaker 1: not to be delusional and you know, move outside of that.
Speaker 1: But like when you come into this like maybe gift
Speaker 1: of inheritance or arrays or insurance payout, you can it's
Speaker 1: good to make up for some of that. It is good,
Speaker 1: but you have to decide when when have you made
Speaker 1: up for it? Otherwise you put yourself immediately back in
Speaker 1: the position of deserving. Well at that point it's then
Speaker 1: you feel guilty. Then you've got another added layer of
Speaker 1: guilt for having you know, quote unquote maybe squandered something
Speaker 1: that was a gift. So whether that's reality or not,
Speaker 1: so really figuring out like how to use because I
Speaker 1: think more of us are going to have this like
Speaker 1: rebellious experience, like the child the financial stability in childhood
Speaker 1: is going to be rocky versus having a lot of
Speaker 1: uber wealth and squadrons. Yeah, I think we're speaking to
Speaker 1: a specific audience. But so yeah, figuring out how to
Speaker 1: use those gifts so that you either like you don't
Speaker 1: squander them or you don't let the hodonic treadmill of
Speaker 1: lifestyle inflation get out of hand and you can really
Speaker 1: like break that cycle again. Yeah, Next for me is
Speaker 1: h experiences with money. So that would be allowances. Were
Speaker 1: you given the opportunity to earn an allowance or were
Speaker 1: you given money to spend whenever you asked for it?
Speaker 1: And then also earning opportunities outside of like chores. Were
Speaker 1: you able to have a job. Did your parents not
Speaker 1: want you to have a job. Were you not able
Speaker 1: to have a job because of extracurriculars? So, like, none
Speaker 1: of it is bad. It's just knowing what your situation
Speaker 1: was and how it impacted your upbringing. Right, So, like
Speaker 1: we wanted to tea your kids hard work, So sometimes
Speaker 1: a parent will decide that's in the form of doing
Speaker 1: a sport, so there is no work, so there is
Speaker 1: no like earning of money. And sometimes a parent will
Speaker 1: decide that that's a job or it will be chores
Speaker 1: and so those all come with different experiences of how
Speaker 1: how did we get the things we wanted in childhood
Speaker 1: and how does that affect us now? For me, I
Speaker 1: I wanted a job as soon as I could, and
Speaker 1: I had to wait, like when I turned sixteen, I
Speaker 1: had to wait six months because I had band season
Speaker 1: and I couldn't work during band season, of course, but
Speaker 1: I wanted financial autonomy.
Speaker 3: What did you play, Clearnet? Yeah, I knew that you did,
Speaker 3: because I can't tell if I knew because you told me,
Speaker 3: or if I know because I just know you and
Speaker 3: I know what instrument you'd play.
Speaker 2: Could be either at this point.
Speaker 1: But so I wanted financial autonomy, like really quickly. That
Speaker 1: was a personality trait within me. But also I saw
Speaker 1: my parents struggle financially. They didn't go into debt, they
Speaker 1: didn't buy more than they could afford, and to me,
Speaker 1: that translated to the you know, they were poor. That's
Speaker 1: what I thought at sixteen, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: want my own money to do whatever I want with it,
Speaker 1: because I can't rely on these people. And that's what
Speaker 1: I've I have taken that into adulthood and know like
Speaker 1: I cannot rely on my mom financially, I just can't.
Speaker 1: And that has been something I've learned from childhood, whether
Speaker 1: it's financial or otherwise, that's what I've internalized. And so
Speaker 1: I got a job as soon as I could to
Speaker 1: make my own money and save it.
Speaker 2: But they did.
Speaker 1: They bought me a car, my mom and dad, so
Speaker 1: like that was something I didn't have to save for.
Speaker 1: And I think it also comes down to like maybe
Speaker 1: knowing your child and their personality point. But I don't
Speaker 1: know how they could afford the car, and then I
Speaker 1: just assumed they couldn't afford anything for me. It was
Speaker 1: obviously my prefrontal cortex was not fully developed. So I
Speaker 1: think that's another thing. We have to realize, these these
Speaker 1: things that we learned about money in our childhood.
Speaker 2: They may or may not be real.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, right, our understanding of money may not actually
Speaker 3: be accurate, which I think I told this story on
Speaker 3: the podcast before, but for the sake of underscoring that point,
Speaker 3: I remember my mom would often say we can't afford that.
Speaker 3: We beat the store and ask for something we can't afford,
Speaker 3: that can't afford that. Then we get up to the
Speaker 3: cash register at one point and she pays for something
Speaker 3: and they ask her if she wants cash back, and
Speaker 3: she says yes, and so they give her money back,
Speaker 3: and in my child's brain, I could not understand. And
Speaker 3: I said to her, I'm like, well, mom, just go
Speaker 3: up to the to the cash register and ask them
Speaker 3: for money like you like you always do, like you
Speaker 3: just got money from them, and she I think, I
Speaker 3: don't know if she tried to explain it or was
Speaker 3: just like that, that's not how it worked. But I
Speaker 3: couldn't understand, Like, so, wait, you gave them a little
Speaker 3: bit of money, and then we get our groceries, and
Speaker 3: then they give you a lot of bit of money back,
Speaker 3: and now we leave with more money, more groceries. I
Speaker 3: don't know why we can't afford stuff.
Speaker 2: I think you're lions to me.
Speaker 3: So in inaccurate understanding of money as a child. And
Speaker 3: now I know she probably wasn't lying to me. We
Speaker 3: really couldn't afford those things. So anyhow, the last and
Speaker 3: final one for me kind of pulled from this article
Speaker 3: is our emotional connection with money in childhood. How did
Speaker 3: we feel about it, how did we see others were
Speaker 3: feeling about it? What type of attachment do we have
Speaker 3: with this kind of thing that we are engaging with
Speaker 3: pretty regularly, was money associated with stress or conflict. If
Speaker 3: that's the case, it could lead to multiple things, either
Speaker 3: over spending now in adulthood or super restrictive spending like
Speaker 3: you've already talked about. Gen. Sometimes whatever we experienced, if
Speaker 3: we perceive it as not great, it could it could
Speaker 3: lead us to extremes of either I'm going to do
Speaker 3: the exact opposite of what my parents did, or I'm
Speaker 3: going to really buckle down harder than what I thought
Speaker 3: that my parents did so that I don't have to
Speaker 3: experience like this degree of whatever I perceived as deprivation.
Speaker 3: Or maybe there's a great emotional attachment to money and
Speaker 3: you're just out here making great decisions and that's lovely too,
Speaker 3: but or you know, with spending associated in childhood with
Speaker 3: here's how we celebrate, here's how we spend time. I
Speaker 3: know you and I have talked about that in the past.
Speaker 3: Gen a lot of times weekend activities were just go
Speaker 3: and shopping, going to the mall, and and so there's
Speaker 3: an attachment that can happen with that type of situation
Speaker 3: of oh, this was a this is a fun thing,
Speaker 3: this is how we have fun. This is how we
Speaker 3: celebrate is through spending money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to just wrap it up with
Speaker 1: this idea that sometimes how our parents handled money cannot
Speaker 1: just make us judgmental towards money and impact how we
Speaker 1: view money. It can also impact how we view our parents,
Speaker 1: and it can make us judgmental towards them.
Speaker 2: I know it has.
Speaker 1: Made me judgmental towards my mother for sure. And giving
Speaker 1: ourselves grace and giving our parents grace. We are all
Speaker 1: working with the tools that we have, and sometimes it's
Speaker 1: not a lot of tools, and it is only in
Speaker 1: our power to pick up more tools for ourselves and
Speaker 1: to maybe overcome some of these generational like beliefs that
Speaker 1: are misguided about money or practices that are misguided around money.
Speaker 1: All we can control is ourselves and the way we
Speaker 1: move forward, and we just want to pick up more
Speaker 1: knowledge so that we have more tools and take action
Speaker 1: with those tools. And it's not up. We can't control
Speaker 1: what our parents do with money, whether they pick up
Speaker 1: tools or not, but we are all working with some
Speaker 1: kind of generational starting point that we cannot control and
Speaker 1: to have grace for those around us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, I've heard the criticism about psychology and
Speaker 3: therapy and digging into childhood of you know, oh, just
Speaker 3: so you can blame everything on your childhood and your
Speaker 3: upbringing and not take any responsibility for yourself now. And
Speaker 3: I would say it's that's not the reason for understanding
Speaker 3: childhood and upbringing. It is so that we can take
Speaker 3: our responsibility for ourselves through understanding ourselves better. It's also
Speaker 3: not to make excuses for parents, but also to recognize,
Speaker 3: like you said, they were working with the tools that
Speaker 3: they're working with. There's this concept within therapeutic circles of
Speaker 3: radical acceptance. And so I think, as I look back,
Speaker 3: you know, on some of my experiences, and I had
Speaker 3: both great and not so great experiences, right like all
Speaker 3: of us, it's this here is what happened, at least
Speaker 3: my perception of it. And it's not my job to
Speaker 3: place blame or to point fingers or to harbor bitterness
Speaker 3: about some of these pieces, but to just say, this
Speaker 3: is what was as I experienced it. How is it
Speaker 3: impacting me now? And what can I do to own
Speaker 3: myself now in my own decisions, how I approach money,
Speaker 3: and how I approach my parents like they are whole
Speaker 3: people too. And their financial decisions were wrapped in all
Speaker 3: of the other aspects of who they are and how
Speaker 3: they were raised. And so like you're saying, giving grace
Speaker 3: to ourselves, giving grace to our parents, those people who
Speaker 3: raised us, and now choosing what do we want to
Speaker 3: do with this? What was good? What do I want
Speaker 3: to carry with me? And what's not so great, what's
Speaker 3: not going to be benefiting me? And I can move
Speaker 3: on from. But I think it does start with understanding
Speaker 3: this because there's so many puzzle pieces that will help
Speaker 3: us to explain, Oh, that's what this is connected to.
Speaker 3: Rather than the shame cycle that we can find ourselves
Speaker 3: on of that why that defensive question, we can ask ourselves,
Speaker 3: why do I do this?
Speaker 2: Why do I keep finding.
Speaker 3: Myself in this cycle of arguments with my partner? Okay,
Speaker 3: how did the way that they perceived money and they
Speaker 3: were raised impact what they're saying now? And how did
Speaker 3: the way that I was raised and my experiences with
Speaker 3: money impact this lot of times when we were able
Speaker 3: to have those types of conversations and get to the
Speaker 3: root of it, so much more flexibility and freedom for
Speaker 3: one another and the pathway forward I think can be found.
Speaker 3: We can become unstuck when we can put these puzzle
Speaker 3: pieces together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know another way we can become unstuck in
Speaker 1: an episode when it you know, gets to a really
Speaker 1: good like tipping point.
Speaker 3: The bill of the week.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 1: entire week.
Speaker 2: Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died
Speaker 1: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 3: Duck bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 3: of the week.
Speaker 4: Hi, Jen and Jill. My bill of the week is
Speaker 4: mint Mobile for our cell phones. We have four phones
Speaker 4: on our plan. Last year, at this time we were
Speaker 4: paying two hundred and twenty seven dollars per month to
Speaker 4: a certain high flutin you know, very notable mobile plan.
Speaker 4: Forty dollars of that was for phones, so we had
Speaker 4: to keep stay with them until December to pay off
Speaker 4: our phones. But as soon as we paid off our phones,
Speaker 4: we switched to mint Mobile. With mint Mobile for four phones,
Speaker 4: we paid three hundred and forty dollars taxes included for
Speaker 4: six total months. We got three months free, so service
Speaker 4: has been great. Then we just renewed our contract with
Speaker 4: Mint Mobile and for twelve months we'll be getting four
Speaker 4: phones for three hundred dollars, actually two hundred and ninety
Speaker 4: five dollars for a three month span, so that equates
Speaker 4: to about seventy five dollars per phone or twenty five
Speaker 4: dollars per phone. You can't beat it. Everybody should switch
Speaker 4: to Mint Mobile. Thanks you to love listening to you
Speaker 4: would love to hear my bill of the week on
Speaker 4: your show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, well, Michelle, you got what you wanted. And
Speaker 1: promise that you are not a plant by Mint because
Speaker 1: we do love Mint, and I assume that you're not
Speaker 1: a plant, but they.
Speaker 3: Send you to I mean, if that is, that's that's
Speaker 3: going deep, that is going to Mint Mobile knows us
Speaker 3: that well is.
Speaker 1: On another level with advertising. They're submitting bills of the week.
Speaker 1: But I mean, we do love Mint and the reason
Speaker 1: that we shill for Mint so hard is because before
Speaker 1: we were even on iHeart, everyone was saying how Mint
Speaker 1: really helped them lower their phone bill. And so you
Speaker 1: can use mintmobile dot com comp slash Frugal for a
Speaker 1: deal or Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Mint. Yeah,
Speaker 1: either of those will work.
Speaker 3: It's cool to hear a listener actually do it and
Speaker 3: see how much it's working for you to go from
Speaker 3: paying two hundred and thirty seven a month to something
Speaker 3: like three fifty a month. And I was doing the
Speaker 3: math on some of the numbers. You said, either way,
Speaker 3: it's significantly less, yeah than what you were paying. So
Speaker 3: that's amazing. Thanks for sharing. Michelle kenmanmobile dot com slash
Speaker 3: frugal because.
Speaker 1: Why not if you're listening to this, they didn't pay
Speaker 1: for this, so you should use Frugal Friends Podcast dot
Speaker 1: com slash mint.
Speaker 2: Okay, because then we get a little kickback. Oh that once.
Speaker 3: That's how we hack go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's ask this how we become millionaires?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, if you are listening, if you've got a
Speaker 3: bill that you want to share about some company we've
Speaker 3: shilled for in the past and how it has actually
Speaker 3: helped you save money, or you know, if your name
Speaker 3: is Bill, we have yet to hear from you, Bill,
Speaker 3: please call us Frugal Friends Podcast dot com slash Bill
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear it. And now it's time for
Speaker 3: the round, all right.
Speaker 1: I kind of love this one. What seven year old
Speaker 1: money habits? Do you still see pop up in your
Speaker 1: adult Spending today.
Speaker 3: Do you have an answer?
Speaker 2: I want to hear yours first. Did you make this question?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, question, Yeah.
Speaker 3: It ties into the article, you know, the seven year
Speaker 3: old I realized, connected to what I have already shared
Speaker 3: in my vulnerability throughout this episode of not really talking
Speaker 3: about money growing up unless we were kind of running
Speaker 3: out of it has kind of impacted my my own
Speaker 3: need to kind of hedge my bets, and so I
Speaker 3: will notice that I will just kind of like stuff away.
Speaker 3: I'm a little bit of like a.
Speaker 2: You are dustar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: My desire to like hide a twenty dollars bill on
Speaker 3: the Christmas tree. I don't know if any of you
Speaker 3: heard about that. I know that is a seven year
Speaker 3: old desire, right, that is not an adult desire to
Speaker 3: like stuff a twenty dollars bill and with the Christmas
Speaker 3: tree for next year. That's that seven year old Jill.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I am dying right now.
Speaker 3: That is you know one else I've noticed that I
Speaker 3: do this with food too. So we just got back
Speaker 3: from a European vacation, which was very lovely. We'd put
Speaker 3: money away and saved for this and and then did it,
Speaker 3: which was awesome. But I noticed along the way because
Speaker 3: we were traveling with friends. I noticed because no one
Speaker 3: else did this any place we were that that offered.
Speaker 3: So like, let's say a continental breakfast, I cannot leave
Speaker 3: the continental breakfast without taking something with me.
Speaker 2: And I'm not the I'm not the big purse.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not doing the things that they would that
Speaker 3: the owners would feel like, Okay, woman, stop, you know,
Speaker 3: it's just I'm on my way out and I'm gonna
Speaker 3: grab a croissant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little sneaky snack.
Speaker 3: And I'm on and I'm gonna grab you know, some
Speaker 3: of those crackers. Actually, the pre workout snack that Eric
Speaker 3: had this morning was from Switzerland, where I like snagged
Speaker 3: and hoarded. Yeah, a little bit of nutella and a
Speaker 3: little cracker. Never ended up eating it, just just in case.
Speaker 3: I just don't want to be caught without a little snacky,
Speaker 3: a little stary dollars, a little so there's something somewhere
Speaker 3: squirreled away.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: Honestly, there's still little croissant crumbs in my purse because
Speaker 3: well I said I don't bring the big purse. I
Speaker 3: did still put the croissant in my purse. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: and it came in handy like five hours later that day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just smart on vacation to do Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So I think some of my aversion to budgeting comes
Speaker 1: from my childhood because my parents never budgeted. They never
Speaker 1: consulted their future to see if what they were doing
Speaker 1: in the present was a good idea, and so they
Speaker 1: would just kind of impulse, like impulsively do activities, impulsively
Speaker 1: buy things. Everything was very impulsive, and now that makes
Speaker 1: me almost cherish impulsivity. So I want to if I
Speaker 1: wanted to take Kai to Starbucks to get a cake
Speaker 1: pop because he loves cake pops, I want to do that,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to check a budget in order
Speaker 1: to that. To me, I don't want anybody to tell
Speaker 1: me what I can and cannot do, even if that
Speaker 1: person is me. So that is why I have become
Speaker 1: a passionate proponent for values based spending. Is because I
Speaker 1: don't want to consult a piece of paper or an
Speaker 1: app for permission to do things. And I also want
Speaker 1: to keep in check to make sure the things that
Speaker 1: I'm doing impulsively are truly in line with what I value,
Speaker 1: and that I can quickly tell the difference even in
Speaker 1: that fight or flight mode where it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: just that impulsive thinking like Ooh, I want to do this.
Speaker 1: No I don't actually do not that that's you know,
Speaker 1: not what I want. I want to do versus saying yes.
Speaker 1: And that for the values based spending and our book
Speaker 1: By What You Love Without Going Broke has truly been
Speaker 1: what I wanted to have and what I've needed to
Speaker 1: not work against my brain, not work against my upbringing,
Speaker 1: to still value and cherish the things about me that
Speaker 1: make me me. But how can I do that in
Speaker 1: a way that also helps me save for the future
Speaker 1: and save for things like a vacation.
Speaker 3: And havin year old money decision.
Speaker 1: Right, Like, I don't have to live a light like
Speaker 1: a half life just to be somebody else's definition of
Speaker 1: financially stable.
Speaker 3: Wow, you've got a really inspirational story. And I'm over
Speaker 3: here just squirreling on yours.
Speaker 2: I love yours. It is my favorite thing today.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks everyone so much for listening, and thank you
Speaker 3: also all of you little gems out here right now.
Speaker 3: NUS reviews like this one from Daphne or Daphney Daphne
Speaker 3: Datney gentle guidance instead of finance shouting. We do kind
Speaker 3: of yell a lot, but I appreciate that five stars.
Speaker 3: This podcast is the perfect chaser after an intense listen
Speaker 3: to other financial advice podcasts that tend to be prescriptive
Speaker 3: and intense.
Speaker 2: No idea.
Speaker 3: I listened to this weekly to help me keep a
Speaker 3: steady pace towards my goals. As someone who has used
Speaker 3: shopping the cure boredom, this is almost like a daily
Speaker 3: vitamin that boosts my resolve to stay true to what
Speaker 3: I value and resist spending that doesn't serve me. A
Speaker 3: great companion. In addition to shows like Choose Fi and
Speaker 3: Money Guy.
Speaker 2: Oh, We're gonna be on in a few weeks, I like.
Speaker 3: That you shouted out other podcasts that might be kind
Speaker 3: of in a similar vain people that do these, then
Speaker 3: you might listen to us. We did ask for that,
Speaker 3: and Dapney you responded so thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Yes, so please if you have some other podcast recommendations
Speaker 1: that we are similar to. It helps if somebody has
Speaker 1: listened to another show like Choose Fire Money Guys and
Speaker 1: they already like that and you say, this is kind
Speaker 1: of like that, but with girls, then that helps them
Speaker 1: see if it's right for them or not.
Speaker 3: Thanks everyone, See you next time.
Speaker 2: Google Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. You got the
Speaker 2: squeaky chair. The squeaky chair in the move?
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the move, in the post hurricane move.
Speaker 1: We're still reeling post hurricane because Jill had to move
Speaker 1: all her furniture to higher ground and one of our
Speaker 1: chairs is squeaky, and Jill used to have it, and
Speaker 1: now I have.
Speaker 3: It, then John has it. I'm kind of glad to
Speaker 3: be without it.
Speaker 2: I know you Eric did it. Eric took the chair
Speaker 2: down right.
Speaker 3: Well, I think we first did both pull that chair down.
Speaker 3: I didn't do it on purpose. I didn't know which
Speaker 3: order they went. So maybe Eric did it this for you, maybe? Yeah.
Speaker 3: I wonder how well you can hear it on the audio.
Speaker 2: I don't think you probably can hear it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean there has been times where there has been
Speaker 1: a lot of things going on outside, like cock a
Speaker 1: doodle doing and you can't really hear any of it
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, from what I haven't gotten any
Speaker 1: emails about it.
Speaker 3: If you do hear the squeaky chair in our episodes,
Speaker 3: leave us a review, make it five stars.
Speaker 1: And say Jen, I'm so sorry for your loss of
Speaker 1: the non squeaky Share
Speaker 2: Prayers and thoughts, thoughts and prayers,