1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. President Trump's tariff announcements 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: are still reverberating throughout the world, and new twists keep coming. 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: On Friday, Trump announced there would be a temporary exception 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: from tariffs for phones, computers, and popular consumer electronics, and 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: today he indicated relief could be ahead for another sector, 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: the auto industry. Trump told reporters he was exploring possible 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: temporary exemptions to tariffs on imported vehicles and auto parts. 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: While things could still change on a dime, the auto 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: exemptions could be welcome news for one industry at a 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: critical juncture, the electric vehicle industry. Since Trump took office 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: for a second term in January, the US has started 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: to do a complete one eighty on its investment in evs. 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: The tariffs are making vehicles more expensive, and all of 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: this is creating economic concerts to you and dropping consumer confidence. 15 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: So you're talking about something that's by a lot of 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: people still seen as kind of a luxury good, an 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: electric vehicle. 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: David Welch is Bloomberg's bureau chief in Detroit, where he 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: covers the car industry. Lately, he's been looking into the 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: switch away from electric vehicles by the federal government and 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: by some of the biggest automakers, But David says one 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: company has mostly held firm on its commitment to evs 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: as others have ditched them, and that's General Motors. 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 3: We have a very strong ED portfolio. We have the 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: broadest in the key segments. 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: That's GM CEO Mary Barra, who David spoke to earlier 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: this month. GM developed what was essentially the world's first 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: modern all electric car on the market in the nineteen nineties, 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: and as its competitors steer away from them, GM is 30 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: betting on their. 31 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: Future over the long term. We think EED demand will 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: grow from mid to long term. A lot of it 33 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: is the consumer is very irrational, and it has to 34 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: do with what's the cost to the vehicle, what's the 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: range of the vehicle, what's the charging infrastructure. Those things 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: are going to continue to improve. 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: But there are huge hurdles ahead from a shaky market 38 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: for the cars to uncertainty in Washington. 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: So whoever's still in the game and a lot of 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: companies and backed away. What whoever's still in the game. 41 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 2: There are a lot of challenges that are either existent 42 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 2: right now in terms of how consumers view electric vehicles 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 2: or some potential big clouds here on the horizon. 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 45 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News today. On the show GM's Big bet on 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: electric Vehicles? Can the company weather the EV downturn and 47 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: come out on top? And what do its ambitions mean 48 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: for electric vehicle owners and for the consumers who want them? Well? 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: Spoke with my co host David gar here's that conversation. 50 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 4: Just how hard is it to be in the electric 51 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 4: vehicle business right now? 52 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: It's kind of always been hard, but it's even tougher 53 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: these days. Because you had this massive growth period that 54 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: really started probably twenty eighteen when Tesla was starting to 55 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: put out a lot of models, and that lasted until 56 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: about twenty twenty two, and then there was still growth, 57 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: but things started kind of ratcheting down in terms of 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: the growth rates. The early adopters had their cars, the 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: luxury buyers who wanted an EV, they wanted the latest thing, 60 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: They got their cars, and you start to get among 61 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: the mass market and people worry about how far the 62 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 2: car can go before it has to be charged. They're 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: more expensive, and so growth slowed, and now you do 64 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,839 Speaker 2: have President Biden's EV tax credits are still out there 65 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: and still getting people to buy evs, but Trump is 66 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: threatening them. 67 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: Over the last year year and a half, what does 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 4: this market look like? Has it been performing? 69 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: We had the past year, so it's a twenty twenty four. 70 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: There was growth. I think the total EV market was 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: up seven percent, which is more growth than the regular 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: vehicle market head But the year before that it was 73 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: a fifty percent growth. So you can see that we're 74 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: kind of hitting a critical mass where evs are roughly, 75 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: let's call it, eight to ten percent of the US 76 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: market at any given quarter, and that's kind of where 77 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: it's settling in right now. And I think it's going 78 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: to grow from here, but I think the growth is 79 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: going to be harder fought. 80 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 4: You mentioned that there are some companies that might still 81 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: be in the game, but perhaps have reduced their dependency 82 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 4: on electric vehicles, changed their timeline from when they planned 83 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 4: to transition to electric vehicles. Why hasn't GM made that decision? 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 4: Why is GM still, for all matter of things, still 85 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 4: all in on electric vehicles. 86 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, it's sort of the industry is divided into 87 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: two groups. You've got companies like Ford, Honda, Toyota that 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: have kind of pulled back to laid investment, canceled certain investments. 89 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: And then you've got GM, Hyundai and of course Tesla 90 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: because that's all they do, that are still pushing ahead. 91 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: You know. 92 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: For GM, they see this one as a growth area, right. 93 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: The other part is long term, they see, we're ardles 94 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: of what the Trump administration does, future administrations and governments 95 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: in China, in Europe, in the US, other markets, pushing 96 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: for cleaner transportation. And I think they also believe that 97 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: very long term, one day all vehicles will be electric. 98 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: So you may as well learn this, get platforms that 99 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: can give you scale, get knowledge of battery, get your 100 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: cost down, do it now rather than wait, and you know, 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: all these things sort of make sense in the long term. 102 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: Near term though, it's set them up for a struggle 103 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: and they're probably going to lose money on these vehicles 104 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 2: for a while. 105 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 4: David, what kind of investment has GM made in inevs. 106 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: They have invested about thirty five billion dollars. That's for 107 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: the technology, the vehicles they've developed, the battery plants, the 108 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: assembly plants that they've retooled to do this, and that 109 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: includes vehicles that they sell in China as well, but 110 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: it's a very big investment they got out there. 111 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 4: With electric vehicles, the battery is everything. How is GM 112 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 4: approaching battery design, battery manufacturing. 113 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: What they're trying to do to get battery costs down, 114 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: which is vital because you take the battery for like 115 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: a Chevy Equinox, for example, the pack alone is roughly 116 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: thirteen thousand dollars, So to get that cost down, they're 117 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 2: looking at a battery pack that's more similar to what 118 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 2: BYD does. 119 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 4: That's BYD Auto, a Chinese carmaker. 120 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: What BYD in China does is that their cells are 121 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: kind of shaped like a small brick, and the advantage 122 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: there is you don't have space between them. So if 123 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 2: you can get a smaller battery pack, even if it's 124 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: a little more expensive to make it, maybe you can 125 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: have fewer cells, get more power on board, and it's 126 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: just a more efficient package. That's one of the big 127 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: things they're trying to do. And the other thing is 128 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: that they're going for some cheaper chemistries that don't let 129 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: you drive as long, but it does make for a 130 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: cheaper ev So those are the two big levers they're 131 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: trying to pull David. 132 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 4: I know this is a big priority for Mary Borrow, 133 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 4: who's the CEO of GM, and she spent her whole 134 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 4: career at the company. Why did she decide to make 135 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 4: this something that she wanted to prioritize. 136 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, GM, under Mary Barrow I had a plan that 137 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: goes back probably six or seven years where she had 138 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: this vision with autonomous cars and electric cars to you know, 139 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: she called it zero zero, zero, zero missions, zero congestion, 140 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: and zero crashes. I think it was so the autonomous 141 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: vehicles would help with congestion and crashes, and of course 142 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: the electric vehicles would help with the emissions. Now, that 143 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: was more of a mission statement sort of thing than 144 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: something that I think they thought was a near term reality. 145 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: But she wanted to take GM, which was this one 146 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: hundred year old company that sells pickup trucks and big SUVs, 147 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: and modernize it. So that was self driving technology, it 148 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: was software based vehicles, and it was electric cars. And 149 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: you know, to her credit, I think Mary Borrow learned 150 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: a lesson from the EV one. 151 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: The EV one that's the electric car that GM started 152 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 4: selling back in the nineties. 153 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: Here they released out a few thousand of them. The 154 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: customers that had them loved them, but they lost a 155 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: lot of money on the program, so they shut it 156 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: down in two thousand and three, that's the same year 157 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: Tesla was founded. And Tesla's stuck with its EV development 158 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: over those two decades, through good times and bad. You know, 159 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: now Tesla is the one with a huge market cap, 160 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: even though that's obviously suffered the past year. But you know, 161 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: Tesla's the one that's worth hundreds of billions of dollars 162 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: and GM's worth about fifty billion dollars. They missed out 163 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: on an opportunity when they were the first one in 164 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: the game. And I think she's saying, all right, we 165 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: have to stick through this because it will be the 166 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 2: future one day, even if the future is not going 167 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: to get here as fast as we thought. 168 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 4: For now, though, David Welch says GM is losing money 169 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 4: on its current EV push, So will that bet on 170 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: the future pay off? After the break, how Trump's tariffs 171 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 4: have upended GM's electric vehicle plans and how long the 172 00:08:51,120 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 4: company might have before it runs out of road? David, 173 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 4: how has President Trump's reelection changed the landscape for GM? 174 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: Look, it's kind of changed everything. First off, GM's two 175 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: most affordable evs, which are the Chevy Equinox and Chevy Blazer. 176 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: They're made in Mexico, so they're facing a tariff right now. 177 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 2: With the exception of the US made content on those vehicles, 178 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: the rest of the vehicle will face a twenty five 179 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: percent tariff. There are other parts and things on the 180 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: US assembled evs that are going to be tariffed as well. 181 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: And then the other big thing, of course, is Trump 182 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: is vowed to get rid of the electric vehicle tax credits. 183 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: That's seventy five hundred dollars to the consumer who buys one, 184 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: and there are thousands of dollars that go to the 185 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: manufacture of these evs as well, which essentially means all 186 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: the companies who sell evs have to figure out do 187 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: they discount their evs by seventy five hundred bucks or 188 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: five thousand or whatever the number is to keep volume 189 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: going and then just eat that in terms of profitability, 190 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: or do they leave the price where it is and 191 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: hope they sell Without the tax credits. It just makes 192 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: life that much more difficult when you're trying to sell vehicles, 193 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 2: and this money that was going to come from the 194 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: government may not be there. In say, six months, or 195 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: whenever Trump gets around dealing with that issue. He's a 196 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: little busy with tariffs right now, but I think eventually 197 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: he's going to turn his head to the EB tax credits, 198 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: and they're certainly on the chopping block. 199 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 4: David, you talked with Mary Barrow, and I wonder what 200 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 4: you learned about the relationship that she's managed to develop 201 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: with President Trump. 202 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: So some of the tension between Mary Barrow and President 203 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: Trump started in his first term. He'd called the CEOs 204 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: of the Detroit three companies to Washington and said, look, 205 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to cut the few economy and emissions rules 206 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: that the Democrats have put in place, and you can 207 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: sell all the pickup trucks and big SUVs you want, 208 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: make lots of money. In return, you're going to hire 209 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: more Americans and get those factories humming, and we're going 210 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: to bring back US automaking again. And Mary Barr was 211 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: already on this path of leaning up the company, improving 212 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: its profits and cash flow, and that meant closing some plans, 213 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: including a big one in Lordstown, Ohio that infuriated Trump. 214 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: And what she was doing by saving money in boosting 215 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: cash flow was investing in self driving cars and electric vehicles. 216 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: Trump didn't care about either one of those things. He 217 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: just wants jobs, and so she takes away jobs, and 218 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 2: in its place, she invested something he doesn't care about. 219 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: And there was just a lot of tension over that 220 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: during his first term. So that was the cause of 221 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: conflict the first time around. And now, look, every car 222 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: company is struggling with these tariffs, particularly if they stay 223 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: in place for a long time. But GM imports one 224 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: point two million vehicles into the US market out of 225 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 2: the two point seven million that they sell, and a 226 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: lot of them come from Mexico. Trump does more love that. 227 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 2: He wants GM to hire more people here. I don't 228 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: think Mary Barr is in a war with him over that. 229 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 2: But GM is certainly, like other car companies, lobbying hard 230 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: to make sure these tariffs don't last long so they 231 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: can kind of continue the businesses of bringing in parts 232 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: from all over the world, bringing in cars from Canada 233 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: or Mexico for the US market. Trump wants things made 234 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: the United States, and so there's going to be some 235 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: natural tension there. 236 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 4: When she looks at the competitive landscape, who does she 237 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 4: see as her biggest rival? How does she see that 238 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 4: competitive space. 239 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: I think BYD because GM does still even though it's declined, 240 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 2: they have a significant business in China, and by D 241 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: is the big player in the China EV business. But 242 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: in the US, Tundai and Tesla and like Tesla look, 243 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: they're still by far the leader in US EV sales. 244 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 4: We have watched consumer sentiment to a degree change when 245 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 4: it comes to Tesla. People who are upset that they 246 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 4: bought Tesla's or won't entertain buying them because of Elon 247 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 4: Musk's proximity to the president. Is that an opportunity for 248 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: GM or they trying to pick off some of those 249 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 4: customers or prospective customers. 250 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: They are now GM isn't being overt about it, like 251 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: you're not seeing ads, you know, dealing with Elon Musk's 252 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 2: politics and seeing come by from US and look in 253 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: a lot of products. The people who buy products don't 254 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: necessarily know or care about the politics of the CEO 255 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: of that company. In Tesla's case, Elon Musk so identifiable 256 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: for being allied with the Trump administration that I think 257 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: it has become a factor. It's not the only factor. 258 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: The other thing is GM has fresher vehicles than Tesla, 259 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: does the model why is being refreshed right now, But 260 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: the others have been kind of the same looking for 261 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: a long time, so they have some stale product. So 262 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: you know, in addition to this political issue, I think 263 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: we just have stale Teslo product, and GM and for 264 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: that matter, Hyundai have a real chance to go in 265 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: and get some buyers. 266 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 4: Just wrapping up here, David, GM has been in this 267 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: game for a while now. By what is this company 268 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 4: going to know if it's bet on EVS has paid off? 269 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: I would say probably the next two years. We'll see 270 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: if they get this critical mass of sales. Their sales 271 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: doubled almost in the first quarter of this year. So 272 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: if we look out a couple of years and they've 273 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 2: sold three four hundred thousand or half a million evs, 274 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: and you know, they've gained more market share doing this, 275 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: and the program starts to break even, I think they 276 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: can say that it's a pretty good success and they 277 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: can really build on that. Not then they've got a 278 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: lot of stranded capital and a lot of factories that 279 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: aren't producing much, and they'll probably end up having a 280 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,359 Speaker 2: way off workers who work in those plans. 281 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 4: David, thank you very much. 282 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: Good problem Thanks Chris. 283 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 4: This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura. 284 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 4: This episode is produced by Alex tie. It was edited 285 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 4: by Aaron Edwards and Mark Millian, who was fact checked 286 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: by Adriana Tapia, and mixed and sound designed by Alex Sagura. 287 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 4: Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is 288 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Ponso. Our deputy executive producer is Julia Weaver. Our 289 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 4: executive producer is Nicole Beemster. Board Stage Bauman is Bloomberg's 290 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 4: head of podcasts. If you liked this episode, make sure 291 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever you listen 292 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 4: to podcasts. It helps people find the show and if 293 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 4: you want to learn more, David Welch wrote a book 294 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: called Charging Ahead, GM Mary Bara and the Reinvention of 295 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 4: an American Icon. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.