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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites of the Podcast presented by BET

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Speaker 1: three six y five. We are part of the Volume

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Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I am Chad Mollman of the Action Network.

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Speaker 1: We are live from our Tommy John Holmes Studios. I'm

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Speaker 1: joined as always by my co host, my companion, mikem Boudre,

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Speaker 1: my BFF professional better Assignmon Hunter.

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Speaker 2: And I saw I man Chadow.

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Speaker 3: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Brother?

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm more of an interested student in

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Speaker 1: the glorious, colorful, exciting past that is betting and the

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Speaker 1: sports betting world. It's how I got into it right,

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Speaker 1: Like I was never better first writer second. I was

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Speaker 1: writer first who loved the psychology. I love the history,

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Speaker 1: I love the story of the mob. I love sort

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Speaker 1: of the characters who populate the world of sports betting.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, we had Mitchell had come up

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Speaker 1: with this great idea a few weeks ago where he

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Speaker 1: did some great old gambling stories and some of which

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Speaker 1: he stole from an excellent book called Roll the Bones.

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Speaker 1: And today we are joined by the author of Roll

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Speaker 1: the Bones, a long time professor at UNLV University Nevada,

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, the nation's pre eminent gambling historian Roll The

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Speaker 1: Bones We Know is Matt's favorite book. So imagine Matt's

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Speaker 1: delight when we found out our author and our guest

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Speaker 1: has a brand new book that just came out in

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Speaker 1: January called Something for Your Money, The History of Las

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Speaker 1: Vegas Casinos, available now wherever books are sold. He's someone

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Speaker 1: I've known for years. He was a regular and patient

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Speaker 1: source when I would head out to Vegas during my

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Speaker 1: ESPN days and was out there for a variety of stories.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Dave Schwartz, Thanks for having me, Chad,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me listen. Your book has thrown Matt

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Speaker 1: Mitchell for a loop. He can't believe this book exists.

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Speaker 1: He can't believe it tells every story that he's been

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Speaker 1: dying to know for years. Can you please, for Matt

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Speaker 1: Mitchell's sake and for the sake of our listeners who

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Speaker 1: are all avid interested parties in bedding, how did you

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Speaker 1: end up doing this?

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Speaker 3: Well? I grew up in Atlantic City, New Jersey, just

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Speaker 3: around the time that they legalized gambling, so one of

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Speaker 3: my earliest memories was them blowing up the old hotels

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Speaker 3: and building casinos. So it's a kid. I was really curious, like,

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Speaker 3: why do people gambling casinos? Why are they blowing up

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Speaker 3: all the old hotels and stuff like that. So when

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Speaker 3: I went to grad school, I decided to write a

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Speaker 3: dissertation in that and that started me on the road

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Speaker 3: to studying the history of gambling and casinos.

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Speaker 1: And so you wrote Roll the Bones. You wrote Something

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Speaker 1: for Your Money, which just came out. Both of them

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Speaker 1: are packed with deliciously colorful stories about not just sort

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Speaker 1: of the recent history of betting, but the entire history

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Speaker 1: of betting. Gambling is so intertwined with the history of America,

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Speaker 1: right from lotteries being how we paid for the American Revolution.

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Speaker 1: Lotteries were how Harvard and Yale were funded and founded.

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Speaker 1: This it is core to the American experience. All that said,

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Speaker 1: what were your favorite stories when researching these books?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's kind of interesting. One fun story.

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Speaker 3: It just shows how far we've come politically and in

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Speaker 3: a lot of ways. So in the eighteen twenty eight election,

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Speaker 3: which was the rematch of Andrew Jackson against John Quincy Adams,

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Speaker 3: one of the scandals was that John Quincy Adams allegedly

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Speaker 3: had bought a billiard's table for the White House and

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Speaker 3: so there is an outrage that how dare he buy

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Speaker 3: gambling equipment with public money? Ironic because Andrew Jackson was

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Speaker 3: a huge, degenerate gambler, just like absolutely would love the

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Speaker 3: bent On horses. Just totally sick, sick gambler. So it's

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Speaker 3: kind of funny that they cus the New England John

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Speaker 3: Quincy Adams the intellectual of being a gambler. You know,

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Speaker 3: they tried to do some spin and these days, again

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Speaker 3: the president or the candidate wouldn't speak for themselves, they

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Speaker 3: would have people speak for them. So they tried to

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Speaker 3: do some spin and say, well, you know, he didn't

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Speaker 3: really buy it, he doesn't gamble, he just has it

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Speaker 3: so that the visiting aristocrats have something to do and like, oh,

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Speaker 3: now you're an aristocrat. Now you're better than us. So

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Speaker 3: trying to make it better made it worse. And it

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Speaker 3: was one of those things. You know, probably public frustration

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Speaker 3: over the banking system, all those issues were the things

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Speaker 3: that probably really got Jackson in the White House, but

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Speaker 3: you know, this was a little part of it. So

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Speaker 3: I think that's fascinating that gambling had a role in

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Speaker 3: this very pivotal election eighteen twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: As a reminder, The Favorites podcast is presented by Bet

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Speaker 1: three sixty five and now new Bet three sixty five.

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Speaker 1: three six five. Must be twenty one or older and

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Speaker 1: present in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia,

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Speaker 1: or eighteen and older in Kentucky. Gamb problem called one

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Speaker 1: eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred bets off in

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Speaker 1: Iowa terms. Conditions restrictions apply. Also reminder Folks officially RSVP

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Speaker 1: for our Free Favorites live show event in Chicago Elite

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Speaker 1: eight March Madness Games, Saturday, March twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: and Simon hanging out with you, all of you listen.

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Speaker 1: When you were thinking about this is a field of study,

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Speaker 1: or thinking about what your first book was going to be,

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Speaker 1: the next book was going to be, how you're teaching

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Speaker 1: gambling as a professor, how do you frame the idea

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Speaker 1: of risk and gambling into the evolution.

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Speaker 4: Of the country that we see today.

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Speaker 3: Well, really is an essential part. And if you look

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Speaker 3: at it, you know, America, the United States, it really

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Speaker 3: is a place of second chances, and that means that

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Speaker 3: things didn't go well your first chance. So there is

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Speaker 3: this idea that the United States is just tolerant a

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Speaker 3: risk and that's how things happen. And sometimes it goes

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Speaker 3: really well, sometimes it doesn't go so great, but there's

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Speaker 3: always another shot.

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Speaker 1: Matter, Simon, I don't want to monopolize. If one of

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Speaker 1: you want to jump in, I know, Matt, you've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions.

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Speaker 5: Dave, one of My favorite anecdotes from Roll the Bones

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Speaker 5: is about William Penn. Is it true that the land

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Speaker 5: that would become the state of Pennsylvania was potentially the

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Speaker 5: repayment of a royal debt?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that is the story. Obviously I wasn't

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Speaker 3: there so when when he signed that marker. But William Penn. So,

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Speaker 3: William Penn was a Quaker leader anybody from Philly, you know,

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Speaker 3: I went to school in Philly. So the statue of

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Speaker 3: Billy Penn. So he was a Quaker. Quakers were not

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Speaker 3: the most popular group in England at the time, and

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Speaker 3: somehow he got this grant for Pennsylvania, which is a

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Speaker 3: really lucrative part of what would become the colonies and

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Speaker 3: later the US. And the story was Sir William Penn,

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Speaker 3: William Penn, the Quaker's father was a gambling buddy of

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Speaker 3: King Charles the Second and when he when Sir William

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Speaker 3: Penn died, Charles the second owed him a lot of

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Speaker 3: money and basically on his deathbed said just take care

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Speaker 3: of my son and we're good. And supposedly that's where

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Speaker 3: it came from. So that's how the Quakers ended up

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Speaker 3: with Pennsylvania. And that's how we get to the eagles,

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 5: And that's that's the most remarkable thing about this book.

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Speaker 5: That's like fifty five words in this book. I mean,

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Speaker 5: you just move on to seven hundred other fascinating things.

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Speaker 5: It really is a remarkable piece of literature.

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea where Charles the Second and

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Speaker 1: William penn were gambling?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Probably farrow fa r oh. That was the popular

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Speaker 3: game back then, So probably Pharaoh, But it could also

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Speaker 3: have been a number of card games, you know, not

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Speaker 3: poker because I wasn't inventing the app, but a number

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Speaker 3: of there are a number of earlier bidding card games

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Speaker 3: that would eventually kind of evolve into poker. And the

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Speaker 3: King had a marker like, yeah, well not literally, that's

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Speaker 3: just my gambling. Yeah, Like having worked in the casino industry,

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Speaker 3: you kind of use the terminal alogy basically as a

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Speaker 3: gambling debt, not legally collectible, but morally collectible. And that's

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Speaker 3: the thing about gamblers that they rather pay the gambling

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Speaker 3: debt to prove that they're good for it than not.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Charles the Second was good for it in

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Speaker 3: the end in Pennsylvania. Is the proof?

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Speaker 1: Well, Simon as a billy adjacent native. This is in

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Speaker 1: your territory. It is part of your history now to

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Speaker 1: know that you are doing the right thing in your

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Speaker 1: community by gambling as much as you possibly can.

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Speaker 6: And it's crazy to think everything GE's birth from the

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Speaker 6: pen name Penn Medicine. I mean obviously, like you just

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Speaker 6: talked about, our capitol building has William Penn standing on

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Speaker 6: the top of it.

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Speaker 2: And it's pretty insane to think not that filled Upia

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Speaker 2: is just known for betting.

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Speaker 6: But at its core, I mean, I can't tell you

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Speaker 6: many street bookies I knew Chad growing up, where every neighborhood,

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Speaker 6: every block has a different guy, And it's tarting to

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Speaker 6: make more sense. You really think about the state and

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Speaker 6: how it was founded and the people that live there,

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Speaker 6: and because that was probably I wouldn't say common knowledge

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Speaker 6: right back then, but people must have known. I mean,

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Speaker 6: everyone just talks to everyone's at everyone's business. This is

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Speaker 6: before obviously newspapers and everything like that. I mean the

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Speaker 6: word must have spread around town about how Pennsylvania got birthed?

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Speaker 2: Am I assuming that right?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah? And I think people knew how big, you know,

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Speaker 3: Charles the Second was into a lot of that they

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Speaker 3: spent a lot of time in exile in France. The

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Speaker 3: French then were the notorious gamblers, so kind of picked

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Speaker 3: up that habit. And it's kind of interesting too when

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Speaker 3: you look at people who don't like gambling, which there

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Speaker 3: are people for a while in England they said, well,

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Speaker 3: this isn't a genuine English hobby, it's a French perversion

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Speaker 3: that came into England. So it's kind of funny how

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Speaker 3: that is spun, you know, and we see that happen

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Speaker 3: throughout history.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, you must have seen this through many stages

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Speaker 1: in your research, whether it was you know, England in

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Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds to sports betting and that being the

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Speaker 1: third rail of gambling. I remember sitting with you in

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Speaker 1: the UNLV library and I think in the building where

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Speaker 1: your department is, and we were talking about Delaware in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey and how Delaware at the time that legalized

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Speaker 1: New Jersey had just filed suit to get passed, but

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Speaker 1: the Professional Amateur Sports Protection Act overturned.

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Speaker 4: And you use the.

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Speaker 1: Phrase sports betting is the third rail of all the

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Speaker 1: betting types, lottery, legal poker, legal casinos, Native American casinos,

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Speaker 1: all of that. What do you think finally turned. In

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Speaker 1: your point of view, from your very deep knowledge and

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Speaker 1: base of perspective, what do you think finally turned for

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Speaker 1: sports betting.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because if you look back in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, when people in the government were researching, well

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Speaker 3: what is gambling and how's it happening? It was mostly

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Speaker 3: illegal and I remember I think it might have been

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Speaker 3: something that can him out of New York City or somewhere.

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Speaker 3: But this government study said, you know the numbers, which

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Speaker 3: was the illegal lotteries, and policy like, that's the worst.

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Speaker 3: It's the most exploitative sports betting. At least a better

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Speaker 3: has a chance, but this is just the worst. And

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Speaker 3: ten years later, what did states legalize lotteries? And at

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Speaker 3: the time there's a lot of debate, well, if we

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Speaker 3: were to legalize sports betting, what happens if the betters

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Speaker 3: get lucky? Now we owe money. So governments didn't want

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Speaker 3: to do it because they didn't want to take on

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Speaker 3: that liability. What happened was the private casino companies, basically

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Speaker 3: because they have the casino itself to offset that, and

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Speaker 3: they can use a sports betting to draw people in.

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Speaker 3: And the old model in the new model it's just

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Speaker 3: another revenue source because it's online. You know. Basically, once

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Speaker 3: they got behind it, thing shifted. But before that, states

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Speaker 3: weren't really eager to legalize it because you know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: just imagine what it would be like if state in

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Speaker 3: New Jersey or Pennsylvania or anyone was running, you know,

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Speaker 3: running a sports book. We would be very different.

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Speaker 1: Well wait a second, that's I had no idea that

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Speaker 1: was the case my understanding, and I didn't do any

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Speaker 1: research on this.

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Speaker 4: I just sort of assumed it was that.

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Speaker 1: Sports betting never really got traction because of moral issues,

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Speaker 1: and you're saying it had nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: It was really about the fear that they would all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden be on the hook for customer friendly

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Speaker 1: outcomes as they call them today, and have to pay

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Speaker 1: out and all of a sudden, instead of having a surplus,

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Speaker 1: they've got a debt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think that, And again I'm not in

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Speaker 3: their mind, so I wasn't there back then. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what they did. But if we look at it,

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Speaker 3: look at the different forms of gambling. Most states legalized

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Speaker 3: lotteries first highest margin, you know, then went into casinos. Ah,

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Speaker 3: they can tax it. They can make decent money. Sports

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Speaker 3: betting was last because that has the narrowest margin, and again,

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Speaker 3: you know you don't have that. It's not as dependable.

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Speaker 3: So when they're doing it or budgetary reasons like okay,

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Speaker 3: we're going to generate with a lottery, we can generate

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Speaker 3: this much money a year to fund the schools. Sports betting,

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Speaker 3: you know, not that stable. So I don't think there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of people rushing to legalize it back then.

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Speaker 4: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: It's always about the money, it's never about the morals.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: In your book, Dave, you wrote a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the Keyfaber hearings. For those who don't know, I'll say

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Speaker 1: it quickly so I can set up the question. In

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Speaker 1: the nineteen early nineteen fifties, estes Keifaber, who was a

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Speaker 1: cenator from Tennessee, very ambitious guy. There was a lot

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Speaker 1: of consternation within communities, especially big cities, about the influence

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Speaker 1: of organized crime, and so he set up this two

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Speaker 1: years of investigations, going city to city on a tour

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Speaker 1: where he had subpoenaed the organized crime bosses and they

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Speaker 1: were being forced to testify about their business and everything

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Speaker 1: that was going on. To me, one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: things that came out of it was the realization by

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Speaker 1: the public that sports betting was the biggest revenue driver

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Speaker 1: for organized crime. And to me, Dave, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you have studied and seen differently, that felt like

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Speaker 1: a death blow for sports betting. That felt like a

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Speaker 1: fun thing people did in the community to being sort

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Speaker 1: of a nefarious, dangerous thing, and it changed that business

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Speaker 1: is trajectory, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Because if you look at the history of illegal gambling,

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Speaker 3: right back in the twenties, when we know organized crime

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Speaker 3: was doing a lot of stuff, you would see if

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Speaker 3: you go back in the newspaper archives, we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: local rackets, boss. So there was like the Brooklyn rackets

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Speaker 3: and the Waterfront rackets, and the Newark rackets and the

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Speaker 3: Philly rackets. It was all local. Okay, what happens in

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifteen fifty one, and the keyf offer is okay,

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Speaker 3: he needs an issue. He wants to be president, he

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Speaker 3: needs an issue. Kind of went into antitrust stuff, but

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Speaker 3: that didn't excite people. McCarthy he had already taken anti communism,

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Speaker 3: so that's gone, Well, what about gambling. Well, wait, the

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Speaker 3: local gambling you're doing with your bookie, that's actually part

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Speaker 3: of this national or even international crime syndicate. So it's

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Speaker 3: a national issue, so Congress has jurisdiction because across the

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Speaker 3: state lines, and that's where it really shifted. That's where

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Speaker 3: you had the idea of the mafia as a national

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Speaker 3: organization or even international organization. Before that, it was all local,

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Speaker 3: you know. And again, it's kind of fun to go

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Speaker 3: back in the archives and see when they start using

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Speaker 3: that language. So yeah, it did change the narrative because

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Speaker 3: originally people said, well, yeah, I'm just putting down a

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Speaker 3: two dollar bet. And there's a book in the archives

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Speaker 3: called a two dollars bet means murder, Wow, And it's

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Speaker 3: trying to tell people, yeah, your harmless sports betting is

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Speaker 3: actually funding organized crime, and that did shift the narrative.

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing like a complete and total extraction from

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Speaker 1: your two dollars bet to that being the reason why

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Speaker 1: the person down the street is getting knocked off.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I've been killed by a small bet before

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Speaker 5: it's done me that much.

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Speaker 3: That makes sense.

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Speaker 5: One of my kind of favorite themes of the of

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Speaker 5: both your books.

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Speaker 3: But there's so much.

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Speaker 5: There's so much gambling embroiled in parts of American history

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Speaker 5: and American culture and really international world history. Going back

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Speaker 5: hundreds of years. But one of my favorite anecdotes was

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Speaker 5: that in the middle of the nineteenth century, the first

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Speaker 5: major regulatory act in congressional history, so tigers have been

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Speaker 5: around for like whatever eighty years, related to boiler construction

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Speaker 5: and steamboat licensing. Could you explain why that was related

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Speaker 5: to gambling?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we all know this isn't the golden age

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Speaker 3: of steamboats all that fun stuff. Also people use steamboats,

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Speaker 3: they became gambling tools. People both gambled on them, you know,

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Speaker 3: playing all kinds of aims, especially poker, but also people

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Speaker 3: would bet which steamboat was going to get there first.

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Speaker 3: The captains were cut in on it so they would

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Speaker 3: have an incentive, and they found that captains and the

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Speaker 3: crew would push the steamship so hard that boilers exploded,

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Speaker 3: and they said, this is too much risk. We've got

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Speaker 3: to cut back in this. So it is amazing how

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Speaker 3: something like that, And it also shows how universal that

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Speaker 3: gambling gene is, where like literally the vessel you're riding

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Speaker 3: on with the high pressure steam that is deadly that

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Speaker 3: you know has killed people before, you're still going to

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Speaker 3: overload it just to get that edge. That is wild.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy that.

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Speaker 5: You report that in one year five hundred people died

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Speaker 5: from this, and in.

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Speaker 7: Congress is like, holy shit, guys, you keep blowing up

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Speaker 7: your own passengers because you can't just erasing your steamboats.

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Speaker 7: We are going to make our first ever regulatory action' hilarious.

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Speaker 5: And obviously you know what tremendous about about Las Vegas

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Speaker 5: and its history, and we'll dive into that shortly. But

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Speaker 5: those teamboats obviously related to the big business of New Orleans.

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Speaker 5: Could you explain briefly, you know, kind of how important

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Speaker 5: New Orleans was to the development of American gambling pre

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Speaker 5: Las Vegas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, New Orleans is huge. It was really

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Speaker 3: America's first gambling capital, without a doubt. You had the French,

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Speaker 3: you had the Spanish, you had Native Americans, you had

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Speaker 3: African cultures coming in there. So you also had a

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Speaker 3: lot of people, a lot of money. It was a

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Speaker 3: thriving port. So it really is where America. If people

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Speaker 3: in America wanted to gamble, most gambling was happening there.

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Speaker 3: They experimented with legal gambling houses really early on in

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Speaker 3: the nineteenth century. The games of poker and crafts were

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Speaker 3: both both born in New Orleans or near New Orleans.

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Speaker 3: So really New Orleans in the nineteenth century was the

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Speaker 3: capital of gambling in America without a doubt.

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Speaker 5: Incredible.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I just want to piggyback off that. I've thought

387
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Speaker 6: a lot about this and you know, gambling. To me,

388
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Speaker 6: it's a really important part of my life. And you know,

389
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Speaker 6: you seem like some of knows all about I mean,

390
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Speaker 6: every little detail, every story. And you know, a story

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Speaker 6: I love that I read a long time ago is

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Speaker 6: about Native Americans didn't have a word for lie, but

393
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Speaker 6: they did have a word for bet. And I always

394
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Speaker 6: thought that's such a human thing, like at our core,

395
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Speaker 6: I mean, think of the earliest man. What you said was, Buddy,

396
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Speaker 6: I bet you I can race you home and beat

397
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Speaker 6: you in a race where I can kill that animal

398
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Speaker 6: before you can kill it, like a little bet like that.

399
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Speaker 6: What is your discovery of the earliest bets ever written

400
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Speaker 6: or made in human history?

401
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Speaker 3: What goes way? It goes back really far. And I've

402
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 3: got another layer of this, you know, so in the earth,

403
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 3: basically for a lot of human history, people weren't living

404
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 3: in settlements, the first settlements, you know, we find evidence

405
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Speaker 3: of gambling, you know, primitive dice, things like that, and

406
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 3: kind of the funny thing is so like if we

407
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Speaker 3: would say, and I'm not saying this is the absolute year,

408
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: but if we say the earliest dice were ten thousand

409
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: years old, the earliest cheating dice crooked dice, or like

410
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 3: nine and ninety nine years old, So cheating was also

411
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: part of it a long ways away, and it's kind

412
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: of funny. Like one of the more poignant stories is

413
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: the when Mount Vesuvius erupted and POMPEII was engulfed in ash,

414
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, in the taverns. You know, there was this

415
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: one thing where it was a gambling table and they

416
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: had the guy's debts were like just scratched up on

417
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Speaker 3: the wall and they're just thinking like suddenly there's all

418
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 3: the ash and the lava coming down, and this guy's

419
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 3: last thing is like, oh man.

420
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Speaker 1: I'm down, and then he's like, great, I'm off the hook.

421
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: That's I was actually thinking. The guy who won is like,

422
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: are you freaking kidding me? I finally hit a streak

423
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Speaker 1: and now we're all going under.

424
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Speaker 4: This is ridiculous.

425
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Speaker 5: Yeah, really bad beat. Volcanic bad beat for sure, Yeah, volcanic.

426
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Speaker 5: So yeah, I can't get worse than that.

427
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Speaker 1: That was good.

428
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 5: One thing I wanted to also point out from your

429
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 5: book is you have this recurring theme which I really enjoyed,

430
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 5: kind of the Simon's point of you, like, you go

431
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 5: back to the earliest bets made in humankind, but all

432
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 5: the way up to the present day. You keep describing

433
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 5: societies that are getting more and more advanced. Gambling exists

434
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 5: because it's people are congregating. Then gambling is frowned upon,

435
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 5: that it is outlawed, and that it is found to

436
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 5: be totally irrepressible, and that it is eventually tolerated or regulated,

437
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 5: but that it happens in every corner of the world

438
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 5: over and over and over again for thousands of years.

439
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 5: So looking back at the history of gambling kind of

440
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 5: overall and maybe Las Vegas specifically, our audience is mostly

441
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 5: sports betters, Like, what are the lessons that our audience

442
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 5: can take away.

443
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 3: Well, it's basically, I mean, there's a couple of them.

444
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 3: First of all, people have always gambled. I mean, obviously

445
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: not everybody, but a lot of people have always gambled.

446
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 3: But things do go in cycles, and there's no reason

447
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: to think that people are going to keep on betting

448
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 3: the way they're betting right now, you know, because if

449
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: we look back, just looking at casinos in Vegas in

450
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 3: the sixties, and we're just going to go back sixty years,

451
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 3: which is not that much time historically, but like sixties,

452
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 3: they're mostly playing craps. Blackjack is just starting to get

453
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 3: big because skill play is just starting to get popular,

454
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: but it's still mostly craps. There's maybe a couple of

455
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 3: dozen slot machines, is not that big a deal, and

456
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: the casinos are a lot smaller. Go to the nineties,

457
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 3: giant air conditioned slot machine houses, just total slot machines.

458
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: But the slot machines look really different than they are today.

459
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: They're mostly steppers, a couple of video machines, but mostly

460
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: steppers versus today. Less focus in the gambling, more focus

461
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 3: and everything else. You've got electronic table games, You've got

462
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: all kinds of things evolving, you know, And that's and

463
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 3: think about how sports betting has changed too with the

464
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 3: advent of technology, and now you don't have to go

465
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: to the bookie bookies in your phone, so there's just

466
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 3: a lot of that going on. And I think my

467
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: other lesson is, you know, they say the house always wins,

468
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 3: Usually the house does but when it does, and I

469
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: this might be kind of ominous for sports betting. You know,

470
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 3: when the house doesn't win, the house tends to change

471
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: the rules. So if people find something, find an exploit,

472
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 3: they will change the rules to prevent that because the

473
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: house has to win otherwise they don't stay in business.

474
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 5: Oh, for sure, that's another recurring theme throughout throughout history.

475
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: Well, that's also why the States didn't want to be

476
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: in that business, right They worried that they all of

477
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: a sudden would have a season where they owe money

478
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: instead of are taking in money.

479
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 4: And what do you do with you know, that hole

480
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: in the budget.

481
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: Sports betting specifically, why do you think, I guess from

482
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: your point of view, you said it'll change.

483
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 4: How is it different than what you thought it.

484
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: Would be when it was legalized, even in these past,

485
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: say seven years.

486
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: Well, it's really interesting because if you look at the

487
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: history of sports betting in Nevada, traditionally it was maybe

488
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: and I'm saying from the eighties onward, when you had

489
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: the advent of casinos being in sports betting, it was

490
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: maybe one percent of total Nevada gaming revenue, maybe one percent.

491
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: You know, then in the early twenty tens, we get

492
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: up to two percent and kind of into three percent.

493
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: So it really is something in Nevada. It really is

494
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 3: an amenity to bring people in. The whole idea that

495
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: they had is I don't want my hot blackjack player

496
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: leaving to go someplace else to place a bet, so

497
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have this here even if it doesn't make money.

498
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: And you know, every slot manager in the world is saying,

499
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 3: if I had that space that the sports book has

500
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: or the polkroom has, I could make the revenue to

501
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: make a year. I could make in a month, you

502
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: know that, And like true, but then they're gonna leave

503
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: to go bet in someplace else, and they're they're gonna

504
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: gamble there. So they really did do as amenity. What

505
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 3: we've seen, you know, in the past ten years or

506
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: even less, is the emergence of sports betting as a

507
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 3: revenue source in its own through online and mobile, which

508
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 3: is something we have not seen in Nevada before or

509
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: so that's totally different. And it did you know way

510
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: back when, back in twenty ten, when I was trying

511
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 3: to extrapolate, well, how big of a market is it, Like, well,

512
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 3: if it's two percent, it'll be this and it turned

513
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: out to be a lot bigger than that because behaviors changed.

514
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 3: So that's just proof that it happens.

515
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember when I first started going out to

516
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: Vegas and I was working on the odds, and I

517
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: would get the numbers from the Nevada Gaming Control Board

518
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: of the total handle and then the hold for these

519
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: sports books, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong,

520
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: late nineties, early two thousands, it would be like six

521
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: million a year in total revenue for every sports book

522
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: in the state of Nevada. I'm like, why the fuck

523
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: am I writing this book because this thing doesn't matter

524
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: at all, like we thought it was a big deal,

525
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: and it means nothing with the overall scheme of what

526
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: really is important in the state of Nevada. But it

527
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: has always sports betting since really the state of Nevada

528
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: legalized it in the seventies. I think has had this

529
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: outsized impact on the rest of the industry in terms

530
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: of not its importance, but a little bit of its glamour.

531
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 4: Would you say that.

532
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And obviously there's a lot more illegal betting going

533
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: on back then, which I don't think we even you know,

534
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 3: for a while, the FBI estimated it. Then at some

535
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: point they just kind of gave up. I learned that

536
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: when I was researching another book, covering the Wire, which

537
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: was about online gaming gambling prohibition. So it's kind of

538
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: interesting to see how they eventually said, we don't know

539
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: how much illegal gambling there is, illegal sports betting there

540
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 3: is going on. We know it's big, so's that's kind

541
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: of the uh, yeah, that's kind of where that is.

542
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: But Nevada, did you know? Originally yeah, they did views

543
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: it as an amenity, but now it's becoming a revenue

544
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: source in its own right.

545
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: This is a sloppyly awarded question, apologies, but like you

546
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 5: you could describe a let's say, a thousand years of

547
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 5: betting activity across the whole world, right, Yeah, all of them,

548
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 5: all of the betting activity in every form, always involved

549
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 5: other human parties, and almost always leaving your home, and

550
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 5: now only in the last like what decade you no

551
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 5: longer need both of those things. How enormous of a

552
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 5: change is that in the from a cultural standpoint to

553
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 5: like what betting is and how intrinsically human the activity is.

554
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: It's a big change. That's one that's probably about five

555
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: or six hundred years in the making to be a

556
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: little little, little little dramatic there. So if we think back,

557
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: you know, to the dawn and gambling, as we were

558
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: saying like, yeah, can I throw this, you know, rock

559
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: farther than you can? I catch this? Sound them before you,

560
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: you know that sort of thing, like Simon was saying, Yeah,

561
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: that is personal. Oh my horse is faster than your horse.

562
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: All right, well I don't know, but my buddy's horse

563
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: is faster than your buddy's horse. Okay, now we're doing that.

564
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: You know, my alma mater can be your alma mater

565
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: in football, okay, you know, my favorite team can be

566
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: your team. It was very personal.

567
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: You have.

568
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: This shift to mercantile gambling and commercial gambling that really

569
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: happens kind of really gets underway more in the Renaissance,

570
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: in that period the Reformation, as you have the rise

571
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: of sort of capitalism and fun things like that, and

572
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: it intensifies in America with the mention of the spot machine,

573
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: where like, if you think about what we did in America,

574
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: we took gambling and we invented a machine that can

575
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: gamble more efficiently, which is such an American thing. And

576
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: that's late nineteenth century eighteen ninety nine. This is what

577
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 3: they were doing, and this is what Americans are doing, like, oh, railroad,

578
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: will build build a bigger railroad. Telegraph yeah, all across

579
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: the country. Gambling, Yeah, here's a machine that'll do that

580
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: for me. So in every okay, looking at betting. Invention

581
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: of the telegraph, Hey huh, Now we can find out

582
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: what's happening at race tracks all around the country. We

583
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: can bet on them here. And that was really the

584
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: first remote betting, and I argue that was the first

585
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: remote remote entertainment where people would actually be hearing them narrate,

586
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: like what's happening in the race, and they're very excited.

587
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 3: And people were freaked out then because they're like, oh

588
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 3: my god, why are they jumping and yelling and screaming

589
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: and stuff and they're not even at the track.

590
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 5: I would say it's probably the intrinsic power of the

591
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: spoken word chad, Yeah, timeless, timeless and evocative.

592
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah. And they had no concept of remote

593
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: entertainment like today where we'll watch the game and get

594
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: all excited even though we're not in the stadium. You know,

595
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: they had no concept and that was how that was born.

596
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 3: So it is really interesting. In every technological devancement, people

597
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: are betting, you know, telephones, people using telephones to bet,

598
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 3: Internet people using the Internet to bet. Mobile people are

599
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: using mobile now and I don't see a reason why

600
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: that won't continue.

601
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: So which came first? This is a chicken in the egg.

602
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: Is it.

603
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: Gambling as a point of pride or gambling for the

604
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: sake of gambling? And I think there's a nuanced difference there.

605
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: But before technology, gambling for the sake of pride, because

606
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: you ed had to be more in person and a

607
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: little bit more about competition versus gambling that is at

608
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: scale and is about gambling for gambling sake.

609
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, think about the difference between poker and

610
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: slot machines. You know, poker, and I know everybody gets

611
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: bad beats and stuff like that, but it comes down

612
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: to I'm better than you and I'm taking your money

613
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: because of skill for even though yeah, I mean there

614
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: are bad beats and stuff like that, and you know,

615
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: whereas slot machines is just hey, I'm putting my money

616
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: up and whatever happens happens, it's out of my hands.

617
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: So it's that's that different. You know, people who just

618
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: want that rush of gambling versus people who want to

619
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: gamble to show their skill. You know, that is the

620
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 3: difference right there, and they probably always had a little

621
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: bit of them. Probably the skill dominated more early on,

622
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: but since we've gone to more totally random games like slots,

623
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 3: a little bit more of the pure gambling.

624
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 6: That's why I love gambling though, Like slots now there's

625
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 6: an edge. Like I know guys who have quit sports

626
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 6: betting on what I do, and they literally live in

627
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 6: books or outside sports books by the slot machines, and

628
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 6: they just watch people on machines and they know timing

629
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 6: wise that this machine's hot, like this is this machine's

630
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 6: right in the pop Like they just watch them and

631
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 6: play for hours and they'll wait and jump on their machine,

632
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 6: which is just to me, it's like crazy how people

633
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 6: just find an edge and every little thing like you

634
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 6: talked about, and you know, go back ten thousand years

635
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 6: of those fake dice pros. Everybody they're always me find

636
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 6: an edge. They might call that cheating. To me, that's

637
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 6: a professional, that's someone trying to find an edge. So

638
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 6: I love the breakdown of all these history right now.

639
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 6: It's really interesting.

640
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: You know, Nate Silver not to plug another book, But

641
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: talking about slots, he wrote a book that came out

642
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: over the summer called On the Edge, and he had

643
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: a section in there about people who, to your point, Simon,

644
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: are looking to find the edges in slot machines. I've

645
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: probably been to Vegas a thousand times, no exaggeration, in

646
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: my life, and I think that I've played slots zero times, Simon.

647
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: Like when you go to the casinos, now, do you

648
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: have any urge to do anything other than walk to

649
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: the book, make your bet and get out? Or will

650
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: you stay and play Parker? I know you love poker,

651
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: Like will you play poker? Will you play blackjack?

652
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 4: What is your menu?

653
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 6: That's the running joke to a lot of professional sports

654
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 6: better is it's like basketball players want to be rappers,

655
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 6: sports betters want to be poker players, and vice versa

656
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 6: poka players.

657
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: I know some really high level poke players.

658
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 6: I've seen when many tournaments in Vegas, especially in twenty fourteen,

659
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 6: I mean twenty fifteen when I was really in Vegas

660
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 6: a lot, and I would see these guys win one

661
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 6: hundred K and then just go bet it on like

662
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: a Lakers first half and lose it. And it's like

663
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 6: that's also why these sportsbook exists, right, They're hitting these

664
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 6: guys who are great at one thing, but something that

665
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 6: great at and they have confidence in when they shouldn't

666
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 6: have confidence in. So yeah, for me, slot machines, chat,

667
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 6: I'm with you on that. The only time I've ever

668
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 6: hit a slot machine is at the airport in Vegas,

669
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 6: Like that's the one time they'll get me.

670
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: If I got eight hours to kill and I got

671
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: the itch, I'll hit the slot machines and things like that.

672
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: But I'm with you. The big thing for me is blackjack.

673
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 6: I told you, if I'm really nervous about a bet

674
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 6: I made, I can't watch the game in the sports book,

675
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 6: I can't be around all the people talk and anything

676
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 6: like that.

677
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: I'll go right across the blackjack table.

678
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 3: You know it.

679
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 6: Give me a twenty dollars limit. I don't even care.

680
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 6: I'm just there to kill time while watching the game

681
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 6: on one of the corner of TVs. So that's definitely

682
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 6: my nervous hitter is. I just like to sit there

683
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 6: play blackjack for a couple hours while watching games.

684
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,040
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685
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686
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691
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693
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694
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696
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705
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: Dave. Do you gambed now? Having worked in the casino

706
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: and having been awake at four thirty in the morning

707
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: watching people gamble kind of kills all the romance. Yeah,

708
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: what I'm hearing at four thirty.

709
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 5: Is my business day. One day the volcano is coming

710
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 5: for me. So that's yeah, more terms back, you know.

711
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 3: It's just yeah, you see things doing surveillance, it's like, uh,

712
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: you know, just like, well, I'm not in part of it.

713
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: For me, it's like I'm no smarter or luckier than

714
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 3: these people. So it's not it's got to be somebody.

715
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be me.

716
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 5: Our audience will not be surprised that I absolutely adore gambling.

717
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 5: I can think of the two casinos where I was

718
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 5: made to move because they were shampooing the carpet while

719
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 5: I was playing, which, as you know, like they're doing

720
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 5: that at like four am, Christmas morning or whatever when

721
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 5: they're like no one, no one will be here, which

722
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 5: is never going to make anybody move. I proposed at

723
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 5: the roulette wheel of the Old Barbary Coast then Bill's

724
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: Gambling Hall. Yeah no, yeah, they I did not know

725
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 5: that she hit her number and they pushed the chips

726
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 5: out with the ring on top. I had had to

727
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 5: take the ring because I was traveling for business and

728
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 5: it was around Thanksgiving from Milwaukee to Denver to my

729
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 5: family's Thanksgiving in Baltimore to Las Vegas, so I hit

730
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 5: every time zone, which made me want to puke my

731
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 5: guts out. Don't travel with a diamond ring, uh And

732
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 5: then yeah, I just assumed that the uh Bill's Gammon

733
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 5: Hall would be fine with it. They were like, what

734
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 5: the fuck are you talking about. I was like, oh right,

735
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 5: I forgot to like clue you in on this. I

736
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 5: had lost enough money at Bill's historically that the pit

737
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 5: boss was like, oh dude, no problem, no problem, and

738
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 5: he showed the ring to the camera, placed it on

739
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 5: the chips and said, I'll clear this table out and

740
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 5: then you have to get you have to fill it.

741
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 5: So I got my my family who would come with me,

742
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 5: and we sat down and she lost every spinch. She

743
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 5: played ten numbers at a time, so you're gonna win

744
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 5: about one in every four spins. She lost twelve spins.

745
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 3: In a row.

746
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 5: It was absolutely excruciating, sweating through my clothes. By now,

747
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 5: the pit boss has told every other table in the

748
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 5: vicinity of what's happening. So every time she lost. There

749
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 5: were audible groans coming from the other tables, which she

750
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 5: thought she was being mocked. But yeah, it was great,

751
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 5: and we're November twenty ten, so still going strong, she said, yes,

752
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 5: still going strong. Yeah, it's great, dude, put.

753
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: Out another edition because that's the best gambling story I've heard.

754
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 5: Oh, I remember when I told the Bill sports Book,

755
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 5: Because of course, she says, yes, we hug and I'm like,

756
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 5: I got to go make some more bets, and I said, hey,

757
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 5: I just got engaged, and the guy's like, sounds good.

758
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 5: I go, no, I got engaged. Here the reaction of

759
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 5: the Bill's Gaming Gold sports Book employees to that I

760
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 5: had chosen to get in that casino at that time,

761
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 5: I've never seen people ask more clarifying questions. They would

762
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 5: have been less incredulous if I told them I arrived

763
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 5: there on a dragon, But to their credit, they gave

764
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 5: me the whole book of drink tickets. So shout out

765
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 5: to the now defunct Bill's Gambling Hall corner of Flamingo

766
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 5: in the Strip.

767
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: That is legendary.

768
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: Matt. I don't know how we've known each other for

769
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: as long as we have and you've never told me

770
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: that story.

771
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 5: This is my total coincidence. I'm drinking from a Bill's

772
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 5: gambling home mug as you think, which I bought that day.

773
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: You've told me every boring, long gambling story of your

774
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: entire life, and you've never told me that story.

775
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 5: I'm just full of surprises, Chad. You know, we all

776
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 5: contain multitudes.

777
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: Dave, you just said something that I wanted to follow

778
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: up on. You worked surveillance at casinos.

779
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, back when that was my postgraduate work.

780
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: So when I was in undergrad, I worked security. After

781
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: I went and got a PhD, I came back, moved

782
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 3: back to Atlantic City and went in a surveillance Well did.

783
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: You guys take out to the loading docks?

784
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 6: Were you out there with them or you were still

785
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 6: in the back room just in their earpiece, And yeah,

786
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 6: take them out the back door.

787
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: Just to mean, yeah, I was kind of was thinking

788
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: about this. I really like doing security because you're out there,

789
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, you're just out with people, You're you're interacting,

790
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: you're you're on the floor. You got all that excitement

791
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 3: in surveillance, you're just up in the room and it's

792
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 3: like sometimes it was kind of fun, kind of like

793
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: mystery science theater three thousand, just like watching TV and

794
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 3: like making jokes and stuff. Other times it was just

795
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: there's a lot of tedium. There's a lot of tedium

796
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 3: just watching people doing repetitive motions again and again and again,

797
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: and you kind of pick up like when someone's gambling,

798
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 3: like they're very focused and they're gambling. So if somebody's

799
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: gambling and they're looking around, well maybe I gotta watch

800
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: them because they shouldn't be doing that. They should be folks.

801
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 3: I remember one time there's this guy playing slots and

802
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's really nervous. He's gambling. He's like really nervous,

803
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: and like he's rubbernecking. Okay, I'm pretty sure he's doing

804
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 3: a sort thing with slugs. I'm like all zoomed in,

805
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: like yeah, man, he's I'm gonna get him. This is great.

806
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 3: Then I assume it was his wife comes down and

807
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: it's like and that's why he was nervous because he

808
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: was waiting for his Maybe he was going to propose.

809
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, it's so funny, Like I thought

810
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: I had it. I was so excited, like, yeah, I

811
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 3: got finally got one. I got a slot scam. Here

812
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 3: didn't didn't have a slot scam. Mostly I think I had,

813
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: you know, just a couple of per snatching kind of things.

814
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: Those kinds of things did you.

815
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: Get pretty good though, at being able to tell if

816
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: someone was trying to count cards or cheat at the

817
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: table at all.

818
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: Now they had account team for that, so that was

819
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 3: kind of beyond what what I did. Then, you know,

820
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 3: it was more just which basically watching the money, and

821
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 3: again it is very a lot of tedium just watching

822
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: the money. Let's say there's an overage or an underage.

823
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: Underage is worse at a cash window. You've got to

824
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 3: go back and watch that cashier's whole shift, and basically

825
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: they're shooting it from the top down, so you're watching

826
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 3: it slow motion, then putting out the money, proving the chips,

827
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: stacking the chips. Okay, I know it's two hundred and

828
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: seventy dollars and we're met, we're one hundred dollars short,

829
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 3: so boom boom boom. Oh wow, now I've seen a

830
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 3: transaction where the cashier was eighty dollars short. So now

831
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: I've got to look for eighty dollars transactions too, not

832
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: just the big ones. That was like, yeah, my soul

833
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: left my body. I remember I spent like three shifts

834
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 3: scrutinizing this one thing, and then Super I was like, eh,

835
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: it probably happened during tape change, because back then they

836
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: had tapes, and I was like, oh God. Never felt

837
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: so defeated like that.

838
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 5: A lot like batting, it feels like you're in the

839
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 5: middle of the basketball.

840
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I'm like, yeah, I know I'm gonna

841
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: find this, and you know they're yeah, So that's yeah,

842
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 3: that was quite a thing, Dave.

843
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 5: One of the themes book books is the h everything

844
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 5: that is old is new again, And one of my

845
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 5: favorite examples is in the middle of the nineteenth century,

846
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 5: you have Francois Blanc and he runs a bunch of

847
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 5: incredibly successful casinos. He's the guy that made Monte Carlo

848
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 5: luxurious gambling location, right, and he's visited by Napoleon's nephew

849
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 5: and he's a big celebrity. They can't wait to have him.

850
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 5: And he rolls up and bets only the table maximum

851
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 5: for like three days, and he kicks the shit out

852
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 5: of the casino. He wins an absolute fortune, and then

853
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 5: before they can win it back, he just pee packs

854
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 5: his stuff and leaves very abruptly. They could barely make

855
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 5: make the payment he took like basically all their cash

856
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 5: on hand. But in the all that is old is

857
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 5: new again. They were like, what are we gonna do?

858
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 5: He goes, here's what we're gonna do. Tell every person

859
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 5: in every contact that we have across Europe that this

860
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 5: guy cleaned us out. We are total dopes. Tell him

861
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 5: exactly how much you want, tell him how easy it

862
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 5: was for him. Let everybody know we are right for

863
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 5: the picking looses slots in town kind of mentality.

864
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 3: And it worked.

865
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 5: The next year was their most profitable year on record.

866
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 5: It feels like the sports book's helping to promote the

867
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 5: long shot parlays that hit that like there's a universal

868
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 5: there's a timelessness to all these tricks. I'm sure you

869
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 5: have a million examples.

870
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. And it is just that basic psychology where

871
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 3: people report the big wins but nobody reports the losses.

872
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: We assume everyone else is winning but me, So I'm

873
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 3: gonna win soon because that's all I hear about. And

874
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 3: you know, in Vegas, when somebody wins at the airport slots,

875
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 3: that makes local news, like somebody wins, you know, fifty

876
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in slots. It's like, what about all the

877
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: people who didn't win today at the slots? How come

878
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 3: that's not newsworthy? So, yeah, that is a that is

879
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: a thing. I don't think that's ever going to go away.

880
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, people think all these things are new inventions. It's

881
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 5: like they've been doing They've been following a playbook that

882
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 5: is hundreds of years old.

883
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

884
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: All I heard from that Matt is that guy won

885
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: a lot and the casino lost a lot, and the

886
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: next year the casino made it back, which means Simon

887
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: and I next year, we are freaking.

888
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 5: Do I mean the advertising obviously would have worked on me,

889
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 5: So I can also appreciate the universality of the advertise

890
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 5: because I definitely would have been like, all right, pack

891
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 5: our buggies or whatever, the get on the railroad. We

892
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 5: got to hit this casino in France.

893
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: Dave, I want to thank you for coming on Roll

894
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: the Bones, which is a great book, a great reference book,

895
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: full of amazing anecdotes. Something for your money, another fabulous book.

896
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: Congrats on the release earlier this year. And that's not

897
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: wrong when he tells me to say you are the

898
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: pre eminent Vegas casino historian.

899
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 4: You got it all. Thanks for providing so many good stories.

900
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 3: Thanks. It means a lot coming from you guys too,

901
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: you know, humbling and gratifying. Yeah, I'm glad, you know,

902
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 3: And I hope people do like the books. It's just

903
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 3: trying to share a little bit of that excitement and

904
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 3: some of these cool stories that have happened.

905
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 4: Everyone go buy the books.

906
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: As a reminder, the Favorites podcast is presented by Bet

907
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Speaker 1: three sixty five and now new Bet three six five.

908
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Speaker 1: Those bonus bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, futures,

913
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Speaker 1: and more.

914
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 4: Whatever the moment, It's never ordinary. At Bet three s five.

915
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: Must be twenty one or older and present in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana,

916
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or eighteen and

917
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: older in Kentucky gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler

918
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Speaker 1: or one eight hundred bets off in Iowa terms. Conditioned

919
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Speaker 1: restrictions apply. Simon and I will return worth our next

920
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: episode of the Favorites on the Action Network YouTube page

921
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: This Thursday, eleven am Eastern talking Free agency in the

922
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: NFL with Chris Raybond. Download us from Spotify, Apple Pods

923
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: wherever you get your pods, Rate review, Subscribe leaves five stars,

924
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: say whatever you want feedback as a gift till next time,

925
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: Love you.

926
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 5: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly.

927
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 3: If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem,

928
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: help is available twenty four to seven at one eight

929
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 3: hundred Gambler